Pajamas Media

24 Comments

1. Bernard Chapin:

Yeah, Aaron, kids definitely do know what’s going on which means they’re way smarter than every “progressive” educational authority. I recall the “red ink” campaign well, and this garbage fits in with it as you said. The yelling I didn’t know about but am not surprised, nothing surprises me anymore.

Sep 10, 2008 - 1:40 am 2. dblaz:

Compare American students and Korean students:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/27/world/asia/27seoul.html?n=Top/Reference/Times%20Topics/Organizations/I/Ivy%20League&pagewanted=all

True, those are elite Korean schools. But I bet most Korean students do more homework and watch less tv than American students.

Sep 10, 2008 - 3:46 am 3. TexEd:

The Dallas Schools (DISD) will change these procedures when they get enough complaints from the city and state prisons systems. When the new prisoners are simply unable to read/understand the basic rules of life on the inside, pressure will come to the DISD. Jobs? Well, no, not unless they applicants learned how to read, write and keep to a schedule in jail!

Sep 10, 2008 - 6:56 am 4. Joanna:

I recently read about a study showing that students praised for their intelligence actually ended up doing less than students praised for their effort. This seems to be an extension of that phenomenon. If a student fails at something, they should feel bad - not worthless, but upset and disappointed. The problem comes when the system soothes the feeling instead of encouraging the student to make sure it doesn’t happen again. E.g., I didn’t clean my room and was punished, and I felt bad. Is it more constructive for my mother to a) give me a lollipop and tell me that I’m fine the way I am and she asked too much of me, or b) give me a push and tell me what she expects of me, and that she knows I can do it, but I have to put forth the effort? Why is personal responsibility so anathema in today’s establishment?

Sep 10, 2008 - 7:02 am 5. BMoon:

I see two deleterious forces at work here - and both go way beyond school administrators, teachers, or the academic community. First is good (bad) ole Rousseau. For over two hundred years, western civilization has blithely given way too much creedence to his naive, romanticist, utopian, and extermely destructive ideas on the innocence and purity of human nature, especially of children. It pervades our concepts of psychology, history, and, of course, pedagogy, like the thick cloud of smog over Mexico City.

The second factor is related - the disintegration of the nuclear family. Teachers and schools are simply overwhelmed with the behavioral and poor perfromance problems of their students, and are not equipped or able to deal with the multi-faceted flood of corrosive consequences of the sexual “revolution,” the culture of narcissism, and the loss of morals and eternal values. They have not many other options, as I see it, other than to to act reactively through retreat.

Maybe it seems I am giving the academic community a pass on their homework. But a real change in education in the U.S, I believe, will require more than just more discipline. It requires a deep look into our entire permissive, flabby, loosey-goosey culture of “whatever dude,” and a return to a more realistic understanding of human nature, psychology, and life itself.

As an emigre to Mexico for twenty years, all this scares me, for while Mexico confronts many of the same challenges and philosophical viruses as the U.S in public and private education, I see students here doing massive amounts of homework, reading works that I have not seen U.S kids reading since I was a teen.

Sep 10, 2008 - 7:03 am 6. Darin Milmeister:

If you want children or even adults to do something, give them incentive, positive or negative. Been around since the dawn of time. Even animals too.

Sep 10, 2008 - 7:16 am 7. Lynn:

Here we go again, pointing to a problem then in the comments section comparing our dum, misbehaving American children to the much better Korean, Mexican etc. well-behaved, studious children.

Korean: We should call back all the young dum, misbehavin American children who strap on rifles to protect those superior Korean students from their misunderstood brothers in the north and get them sum better education.

And now for Mexico. Oh forget it. We’re puttin up that fence so our American children can’t excape to Mexico where they’ll get a better education and a better life. Can you people for once comment on a subject by addressing it and suggesting solutions by not lifting another country’s children up by bring our American children down.

You sound like a bunch of liberals who have made it their way of life tearing anything American down and pointing how much better other countries, people and their children do things. Explain to me what you are accomplishing? Never mind, the answer is nothing.

Sep 10, 2008 - 7:33 am 8. AJ:

Factual, coherent, good theme, accurate. Educ. reform is one of those issues that, overall, Dems and GOPers actually agree upon. That should be a wake up calls to the corrupt thieves in the teachers unions who are all about $ for themselves and their teachers, no education our children.

I know, I’ve been there, and published a book on these matters based upon my experiences:

http://www.amazon.com/Reclamation-Saving-schools-starts-within/dp/0595445306/ref=sr_1_1/104-6369671-2000766?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1178558100&sr=1-1

Sep 10, 2008 - 9:22 am 9. ic:

It’ll be much better if the rules were actually written by students and their parents in the beginning of the school year. Most of them know what is good for the students. That is why parents waited in lines over night to get a spot for their kids in those chartered school lottos.

Poverty pimps’ main concern is to keep the poor poor to wring out concessions and money from politicians. Education pimps are doing the same thing. They keep turning out under performing students, demand more money to perpetuate the situation, ruining more and more young lives.

Sep 10, 2008 - 11:22 am 10. Jessica Suzanne:

teachers being forced to accept overdue work?!!! i hope this insanity never reaches my younger brother’s school–without deadlines and repercussions he would be having an even harder time turning from facebook to his homework.

Sep 10, 2008 - 1:35 pm 11. Sandra M:

At age 10, I could have put together a curriculum for myself based on the subjects the priest taught Edmond Dantes in the Chateau D’If prison. The Count of Monte Cristo was my hero and I always wanted to be like my heroes. Sherlock Holmes was another hero and made me want to master the subject of logic which in the middle ages was one of the first three subjects one learned: grammar, logic, and rhetoric.

The next four were arithmetic, music, astronomy and geometry.

I look back at my life which included a year of graduate school and am grateful to a series of wonderful librarians, to the millionaire who funded the local libraries in my town, Andrew Carnegie and the genius who thought up the idea of recycling books: Benjamin Franklin. I used to send up a “gratitude” every time I entered my public library.

Very few teachers stand out in my mind. Bad teachers made me wary orf opening my mind to strangers. So, would-be mentors struck out with me. To this day, when I trust a thinker, I read everything they’ve written. I know and admire Christopher Hitchens’ character and mind (from his writings) so that he’s the only Marxist I would ever listen to openmindedly.

I would love a Great Teachers series of DVDs. One great teacher, Newt Gingrich, was reprimanded by the “Ethics” committee of the House for teaching a 12 lecture course on Americanism. Oh, the horror of it.

Sep 10, 2008 - 2:48 pm 12. Ari Kaufman:

Ah, facebook: the grand culprit in this scheme, along with MTV. Talk about “organizations” that ruin children’s lives. The former distracts — in a narcissistic way –, the latter destroys — in an insidious way.

Sep 10, 2008 - 8:02 pm 13. robotech master:

As someone who went to high school back in 94-98 I’m now going to college(much as a really don’t want to)… college is by far and again easier in every way then my high school was. I’m taking basic math thats required for a 2 year degree… Its stuff I learned in middle school and even though I never used it or even thought about it I still find it easy 10 years later… their are many ppl freshman straight out of high school that can’t even do it or have never seen it before…

Simply put I think a easy step for improving the school system is

1. Remove homework period. Homework is the crutch of the stupid to get high/passing grade. Homework(unless some project or term paper) should never been counted period. Once thats gone you can see the real grades ppl are getting.(and alot more ppl will be failing)

2. Push students force them to go into classes that are hard…(or at the very least offer them the chance to take hard classes) my last 2 years of high school I basically did nothing…why? because I was bored out of my Fing skull with the stupidity that I was being feed. I now have that same problem with college… I sleep through most of my course because its barely a high school review and in some cases middle school.

3. Maybe the single most important thing we in the US most do… ban 2 year degrees… They are complete BS. Their are no jobs out their that require a 2 year degree that can’t be done with 3 months of job training. 99% of all 2 years degrees are a scam period. Its also getting to the point that a good 30% maybe even as high as 50% of 4 year degrees are complete BS. The government needs to step up and change its standard to having placement tests instead of a BS degree. It ppl were require to get Certs much like the computer techs. In this day and age of the internet plus these things we call “library” which have these things called “books” we should be seeing colleges shutting down amass because their purpose is gone… however instead college has become the next high school.

Then we just have the plain social issues such as global warming… this “theory” which has been debunked on a nearly yearly to bi-yearly has never made it past the hypothesis stage yet I have a hard time opening up one of my college books and not finding global warming is both science fact and is all humans fault… with the chapter before it talking about “science ethics” and how ppl try to scam other ppl or falsely report things as science fact… it is to say the least ironic.

Sep 10, 2008 - 8:55 pm 14. god:

Lynn 9/10 7:33 am:

You don’t sound dumb, but maybe “dum” . . .

Have you ever looked at statistics?

Why is Silicon Valley fighting for H1 visas?

Sep 10, 2008 - 10:41 pm 15. Lynn:

Dear god,

Why is Silicon Valley fighting for H1 visas? Well, simply because they have nothing else to fight for. Like my momma says “Dum is as Dum duz.”

Sep 11, 2008 - 6:25 am 16. Waller:

Robotech, Your no3 observation hit a chord with me. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not anti-business or anti-education. But I concluded years ago that two year degrees and certifications were designed primarily by business to shift the cost of training from themselves to the job applicant [and by extension] to the government.

I find this cost-cutting method by companies to be reprehensible. First the public is expected to pay for what should be a business expense. Secondly, it lowers the value of an employee in that they became increasingly replaceable. And conversely employees increasingly have less commitment to their employer. This encourages the revolving door climate of employment. One doesn’t need an MBA to understand that high turnover equals lower productivity.

Third, in the big economic picture, it requires a larger debt load on the average worker. Either a prospective employee has to assume a debt load just to be competitive, or the taxpayers subsidize him in the form of grants.

My prediction is that in the future we will have a “student loan” crisis where too many former students have incurred so much debt that a majority will never be able to pay back student loans with market rate salaries.

Who will end up bailing out the student loan industry when the debtors start defaulting by droves? It’ll be another “housing lender” type crisis like the one that we are experiencing now.

Sep 11, 2008 - 3:24 pm 17. Houston:

The citizens of Dallas gave up on their public school system years ago, and I don’t think any of them would really claim their system is a good one anymore. Public schools can be pretty bad, but Dallas is a poor example to use if you really want to make a compelling point on that subject.

Sep 11, 2008 - 6:43 pm 18. WR Jonas:

I sat in the back row of Mr. Patterson’s Juniors English class a long, long time ago. He announced that he was going to let us set the rules for such things as being late , submitting work, taking tests and punishment for miscellaneous offenses. We set some pretty low standards and before long the class deteriorated into near anarchy.
He simply refused to punish anyone for anything and I sat thinking to myself, where will this end ? I suspected he would be dismissed soon but it did not happen. Kids would throw erasers and talk over anyone . Misbehavior became the rule rather than the exception and cutting class was so common that I suspected he made up his daily attendance roster.
The puzzle was that the administration never dealt with him and he was on the faculty a long time after I left.
But I did learn one thing, indelibly and forever. When discipline goes away chaos enters at once.

that

Sep 11, 2008 - 7:15 pm 19. robotech master:

Waller

I had hoped never ever to have to lower myself to go to college… sadly I must to get the job I want and that will provide a gate way to the end job I really want. College so far has been everything I expected and worse… Its a scam plain and simple combined with the great effect of being a brain washing camp for kids. I hear all these ppl talking about the “science process” and how important its to stay open minded… then they start talking about how global warming is solely man made. I read the books and they are written to seem “fair” but use clever wording to get their points across for in fashion that doesn’t say the 2 things are linked but when read one after another the human mind just links them together.

I also don’t believe it was business that was the main driving force… it was colleges+ the grads who were taught that anyone without their commie indoctrination card(ie a college degree) is worthless. Colleges benefit because now everyone must pay them money to get a job. This in turn expands government(and government control) and “teachers”. It opens up “nothing” jobs for idiots to fill. It also furthers socialism/communism as well as elitism. Business can now damn your indoctrination card in order to give you the privilege of being part of the elite class(managers). This evens the playing field and even tips it in favor the of socialism/communism. By having a little pass card no person through hard work and self education can reach the elite class(unless their very very smart). This is why middle/lower managers are completely worthless at anything. In the end through expanding government and causing dependence on said government and its many “welfare” programs you gain control.

Further I hear a great deal about how in a short time college will be paid for by many state just because “it’s so needed” or “education is everyone right”. College is nothing more then 2 more years of high school.

Sep 11, 2008 - 9:28 pm 20. Waller:

Robotech, I agree with you that this has greatly helped the “commie, socialist” indoctrination. After all, get young minds used to the idea that they need the government and at the same time continue the indoctrination began in K-12 public schools.

I didn’t even get started the financial aid vicious circle sham. The problem started with Pell grants (which are still lauded as something wonderful). This created two problems. One, barely qualified students get to go to college at taxpayers expense. Two, it was a cash cow for colleges.

Now colleges could spend money like a drunken sailor and the government will raise grants accordingly. No incentitive for fiscal responsibility in higher education. This in turn has lead to a spending race between colleges. Each “has” to spend more money to be “attractive” to applicants. Keeping up with the Joneses, so to speak.

The people who are screwed are the middle class who have to spend outrageously or borrow heavily just to compete in the workforce. I won’t say that this was intentional by Democrats. But who likes to keep people reliant on government money in exchange for votes?

Now with so many going on to advanced degrees, most technical fields are overwhelmed with an oversupply of overeducated workers. The worker can’t drop out of the cycle or he will be lost. Business pays what the market supports. Unfortunately, college counselors encourage students by quoting ridiculous starting salaries.

The colleges also prey on the mentality of a typical 20 year old who has no idea how difficult it is to pay off a $50K or $60K loan (or even a $10K loan). Colleges encourage students to go in hock up to their eyeballs by telling them they will make %50K right out of school.

I have seen this harsh reality in my experience of hiring. Kids come to a job expecting $50K. But even with education all the entry level jobs are $25K. The realization slowly dawns on them that they will be paying student loans off for a big chunk of their working life.

What needs to be done is eliminate the needs based grant system. Make scholarships available ONLY to those with outstanding scholastic achievement. The reason a college education is so devalued now is that colleges have had to dumb down cirricula to keep students in class(and bringing more government $ to the schools).

If the pool of degreed job applicants dropped below the job demand, then business would have to stop making ridiculous educational demands on its applicants. And you wouldn’t be forced to pay for high school (part 2) just to have a job.

Another thing, it still takes 6 mos to a year before an employee stops being an expense and becomes an asset. I really don’t know why they place so mich emphasis on education. Personally, I think it’s because they are lazy and don’t want to have to figure out the applicants worth on their own. It’s a big hiring shortcut.

BTW, I have a 4 year degree. It’s kept my resume from going into the circular file, but that’s about all.

Sep 11, 2008 - 10:42 pm 21. Zingerman:

The primary purpose of public education has always been to “socialize” the students. What we are now seeing is simply another step on that road to emotionalist, responsibility-shirking hell.

Witness the almost invariably better performance of home-schooled children. They aren’t prodigies, just normal kids held to reasonable standards. They only look like prodigies next to their public school brethren.

The only long-term solution is to abolish public education — something the government was never meant to provide, anyway. Private schools, run as businesses without government interference, would offer incentives to teachers (more control over curricula, merit-based pay, not having to worry about coercive unions) that they don’t have now. They would also be affordable once the tax burden of public schools was lifted.

Sep 12, 2008 - 6:20 am 22. Waller:

Zinger, what I said about colleges not showing fiscal restraint also applies to public school for the same reason. As long as they get gov’t money they will continue to waste money. That’s why the average “tuition” for a public student is $15,000/yr while in the private sector it’s only $6000/yr.

My big gripe is when school districts create artificial shortages to show their budget crisis. It’s always something basic that directly affects students - like no pencils or paper. That way people are sure to believe the district is out of money. Anyone else could see that if they fired one of the five assistant principals in one of the high schools it would cover the cost of paper and pencils.

Sep 12, 2008 - 9:26 am 23. Grizzly:

Don’t forget about graft and corruption. I was talking to a teacher in the Oakland CA public school district. She told me how it was common knowledge that administrators routinely gave contracts for supplies (pens, paper, etc) to businesses run by family, friends, etc, charging many times the price that they could be got for at, say, Office Depot. This was just one such scam.

Oddly, by some twist of logic that I have yet to figure out, the teacher still believed that CA needed to spend more money on schools, in order to improve them.

Sep 14, 2008 - 8:53 pm 24. Required Reading at The Core Knowledge Blog:

[...] When Students Run the Classroom at Pajamas Media A new policy at one of the largest school districts in the U.S. is the stuff kids’ dreams are made of. And that’s the problem  [...]

Sep 21, 2008 - 6:15 am

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