Pajamas Media

36 Comments

1. dmgold, Israel:

The silly thing is that the Jew on the street in Israel doesnt really care what mistruth, half truth or down right lie the Gaurdian ,NYT or the BBC promotes on this or that day of the week. These so called independent and objective saviours of the world are basically preaching to their converted or the closet Jew hater. Over here the amount of BS from these outlets that has passed as Journalism means we disbelieve what is written or broadcast even before we hear, see or read it.

The simple fact is they are duping their own indigenous populations into believing that if only the Jews were to take a hike global peace would break out with trumpets and fanfare. Sad cause this aint going to happen.

When Britain finally wakes up tommorow or the next day, the bearded Mullahs will be there sword in hand playing the victim card while they slowly roast once proud Britain on the sharia BBQ.

Dont forget the most important cry of Mohamed and the modern day Jihadists is ” Din Mohamed B’saef” ( the judgement of Mohamed is with the sword ).

Peace ” Bukra fil mishmish ” ( tommorow their will be apricots ) not in our time their wont be.

Mar 23, 2009 - 4:15 am 2. Dirty Muslim Blogger:

Carol, lots of good points for sure, and indeed in terms of being a democracy Israel is so much better than Pakistan by leaps. However, to paint Israel as an angel is disingenuous on your part, and that’s where you could have been more balanced.

Regarding the Taliban getting the nuke, it is indeed a worrying prospect. According to some well-informed Pakistanis I know, the Pakistani intelligence and military are increasingly getting infiltrated by terrorist sympathizers and Islamists. The high ranking secular nationalists are slowly withering away.

Pretty worrying for sure.

Mar 23, 2009 - 4:19 am 3. JFM:

Dirty Muslim blogger said

Carol, lots of good points for sure, and indeed in terms of being a democracy Israel is so much better than Pakistan by leaps. However, to paint Israel as an angel is disingenuous on your part, and that’s where you could have been more balance

You don’t need to say Israel is an angel to point that it is not Israel but Pakistan who has killed and raped millions in BanglkaDesh, that is not Israel but Pakistan who has brought to extinction Pakistani Hindus and close to it both Pakistani Shias and Pakistani Ahmadiyas. It is not Israel but Pakistan who sponsored the Taliban who murdered tens of thousands of Hazaras. Alos it is not Israel but Arabs who perpetrated two hundred thousand murders in Algeria. It is not Israel but Arabs who enslave the Copts in Egypts. It is not Israel but Arabs who perpetrate genocide in Darfur (they are Muslim but not members of the master race just like… Pakistanis), it is not Israel but Arabs who have tried to blow away maternities (cf the Haddith “Don’t kill children! Even the best of you are sons of polythiests. Don’t kill children!”). It is not an Israeli but an Arab woman who had girls raped and then persuaded them to cleanse their honor by becoming suicide bombing). Israel could be no angel but Muslims are minions of Shaitan.

Mar 23, 2009 - 6:08 am 4. JD:

Why criticize Islamic countries when you can far more easily blame America for the failings of others?

It’s a good enough policy for the Democrats and their supporters:

http://trackacrat.com/category/barack-obama/

Mar 23, 2009 - 6:09 am 5. Phyllis Chesler:

Brava Carol! Your writing remains vital and reasoned even as your last bit of patience is being tested.

Mar 23, 2009 - 6:44 am 6. David H:

Carol, it is quite apparant that the people in charge attack Israel because they are scared of standing up to Islamic terror, so they would rather throw Israel to the wolves and hide their cowardice by saying things like Israel makes the Muslim world too aggresive.

And the UN and many NGO’s are now having their strings pulled by the Muslim world. Do you really think that the people who pretend to govern us really have it in themselves to stand up against this without it being forced on them, I guess this is the weakness of democracies, we only really stand up when it has come to the point where the gun is pointed at us and at some point we will leave it too late, however the one positive aspect is that the Islamics are so extreme that they can not hold back from jumping the gun, at least I hope so…

Mar 23, 2009 - 7:44 am 7. iconoclast:

Carol

When I read articles such as yours, follow the antics of the British press, and reflect upon the nonsensical policies (really childish emotions better suited to 1st graders than mature adults) I despair of the outcome.

It seems like there can only be two outcomes from this clash of civilizations. The first is that much of the Muslim world goes through their own Enlightenment and somehow becomes as tolerant as western civilization. The second outcome is that the Muslim world succeeds in launching a truly existential assault on western civilization though the use of WMD.

Unfortunately, I believe the second outcome is more likely at this juncture. Appeasement only makes it more likely. And the end result of an existential attack will be genocidal violence against the Muslim world. The few muslims that survive, assuming the religion isn’t eradicated, will certainly be more tolerant.

Hoping for the genocide of hundreds of millions is sick, which is why I hope that the Muslim world will somehow come to its senses before matters deteriorate much more.

Mar 23, 2009 - 8:14 am 8. Marie Claude:

“Alos it is not Israel but Arabs who perpetrated two hundred thousand murders in Algeria”

of course, this was a civil war between several muslims factions (FIS GIA then GPSC MSP) and the algerian governement, which had nonentheless the common agenda to eliminate the secular and corrupted FLN apparatchnik Bouteflika.

Some of these factions were sponsored by Maroc (GIA) who had a latent conflict about Sahara borders, and when their ability to project new aggressions was dismentled, after being amnistied, quit a feww members carried on the jihad, then sponsored by AQ…

This had majoritarly political causes than a typical religion war, but the new movments became jihad troop, may-be they fight for who provides them money

Mar 23, 2009 - 11:12 am 9. Camaron:

Good points, Carol. I doubt the Muslims will suddenly change their views and become followers of the religion of peace. I’m afraid – agreeing with Iconoclast – that the appeasement will only lead to an extreme course of action. The more the Islamists gain power, the less we have tools to deal with it.

I read an article in today’s Norwegian newspaper about a conference in Oslo, where the head of Norwegian Security Services told the audience that terrorism has nothing to do with religion. He wanted hijab-wearing officer to join the security services and told people that it is the Norwegians that commit hate crimes in Norway.

Shoulder to shoulder against terrorism

The Norwegians, and the rest of the world, will wake up one day and realize that sh-t happens!

Mar 23, 2009 - 11:28 am 10. Oscar the Grump:

Carol,
Great points; but, weak construct. There is so much more that can be said that it boggles the mind. What needs to be said would fill volumes.
Keep up your good work. You’re a voice of sanity in a sea of gibberish.

Mar 23, 2009 - 3:06 pm 11. Oscar the Grump:

Dirty Moslem Blogger
First of all I resent the name you have chosen as it shows great disrespect to Moslems in general. By including the word “Dirty” you not only denigrate yourself but also your people. Why do that?

I would dearly like to discuss what you would feel is a balanced discussion on Israel. This would have to establish peramiters and limits of what we should approach. Then, we could go into depth on the issues. I await your answer.

Mar 23, 2009 - 3:15 pm 12. Marie Claude:

Oscar, don’t jump on Dirty Moslem Blogger, I know him, he is quite a balanced guy, a friend to Israel and America, also my friend

Mar 23, 2009 - 3:39 pm 13. Oscar the Grump:

Marie Claude
I’m not jumping on him. I have invited him to an open discourse and pretty much let him set the terms. Other than that my only objection is that he is using a term “Dirty” as his on line name. I think that the term is denigrating.

Other than that, how are you?

Mar 23, 2009 - 5:12 pm 14. Dirty Muslim Blogger:

Oscar, click on my name and download my ebook to know the whole concept behind the name I’ve chosen. There’s a reason and a story so please don’t jump to conclusions.

Hi Marie!

Mar 23, 2009 - 5:37 pm 15. Oscar the Grump:

Dirty Muslim Blogger
If you don’t mind I’ll just call you DMB. It rests easier with me. In my life I’ve been called a dirty Jew and worse. I have a gut reaction when the word dirty is used as a prefix to any group.

I’m still open to discussion with you. Thanks for answering me. Am looking forward to any discussions.

Mar 23, 2009 - 6:12 pm 16. Marie Claude:

Oscar I am OK, thanks, I still need to recharge my batteries to go on the fronts

Mar 23, 2009 - 6:22 pm 17. Marie Claude:

Hi, DMB, life isn’t quiet river

Mar 23, 2009 - 6:24 pm 18. Oscar the Grump:

Juda Pearl writes some very interesting articles in the Jewish Journal of Los Angeles. They are worth looking up.

Mar 23, 2009 - 7:52 pm 19. PatriotUSA:

I agree with iconoclast’s post completely. There is no peace within islam, nor are there any moderates, at least from all the reading and studying I have done and continue to do. I could post the book’s titles but it is rather long so I won’t.

The West’s infatuation with the idea of Islam being a “religion of peace”, well it is just poppycock. Islam has been waging wars and jihad since the 7th century and this continues today, all around the world. I have mentioned this numerous times and will continue to do so; study the current global conflitc and wars and you will Islam invloved with the VAST majority of said conflicts. The stupidity of tolerating Islam anywhere is a disaster for the future. Cast your eyes upon England and see what is going on there. Islam refuses to co-exist with other cultures and how they have lived for hundreds of years or longer. This is proven out, just go and study Islamic history and the you will find the use of warfare and jihad goes way back. Islam is bound to push itsellf INTO, ONTO,with the ultimate outcome of Islam becoming the dominate ideaology, as I do not see it as a religion. Sorry if that offends some but that is just how I and many others see it. Once one studies the Qur’an, hadiths, and sura’s it becomes very clear there is no room for tolerance for others who ARE NOT Islamic and follow Islam. You are expected to convert, or live as a second class at best, Dhinmmi sub human. Life can and will be a living hell unless you ultimately convert or Islam will kill you. The words of mohammed as he got them from allah prove this over and over. Islam is incompatible, violent, perverted and a totalitarian rule like no other.

The foolishness of policies like the mullah obamaham is pursuing will lead to nowhere except to strengthen Islamofacism’s hand. It will embolden terror attacks around the world. Policies of appeasement, deals, treaties(hudnas),truces, apologies, diversity and multiculturalism towards Islam will only
be seen as positions of weakness and cowardice. Islam feeds off it’s enemey weakness and that is what we are witnessing today. It is just a matter of time before an Islamofacist terror attack with a WMD occurs and the backlash and violence against Islam will really begin and not stopped until islam is reduced to rubble. Hopefully it will be permanent. I do not look forward to this and wish there could be a different outcome. Islam’s history has proven time and again the only way to stop it is with what has worked in the past. This will not be pretty and millions may be killed. You cannot defeat your enemy until you know him and that is what we are just starting to figure out.

Mar 23, 2009 - 11:46 pm 20. JFM:

JFM

Alos it is not Israel but Arabs who perpetrated two hundred thousand murders in Algeria”

Marie Claude

of course, this was a civil war between several muslims factions (FIS GIA then GPSC MSP) and the algerian governement, which had nonentheless the common agenda to eliminate the secular and corrupted FLN apparatchnik Bouteflika.

First the two hundred dead didn’t happen in war but in horrendous massacres perpetrated with incredible sadism by the GIA and by death squads from the Alegerian governemnt. Being impaled was a merciful death by GIA standards. We can also remind the kidnapping of woman to be used as sexual slaves by the holy warriors and that they were murdered when they beacme pregnant. But because we were dicussing how evil the Isrealis are, they don’t impale babies and don’t kidnap women to share them between their soldiers. Muslims do.

Second: There were other common goals between Algerian government and FIS/GIA/GSPC. One was the islamization of algerian society cf introduction of a new, more regressive family legislation (islamization has ever been essential in order to have the population tolerate governemnt’s corruption), the other goal was arabization (cf assassination of berber singers and leaders, banning not only of the use of French but also of algerian arabic: governemnt wants people to use classic arabic, that is Arabic like spoken in the Gulf in Muhammad’s times).

Mar 24, 2009 - 3:06 am 21. Marie Claude:

JFM, your description is right, these persons were under drugs according to witnesses from repentant “fighters” and from algerian infiltred policemen

I wouldnt put these atrocities only on a muslim jihadism agenda too, but on part of the fightings for power in a country rich of oil and gas.

Also I recall you what the FLN could make to cooperant Harkis and french soldiers that they could captured, their crualty was equivalent to GIA’s, and it wasn’t in the name of Allah.

BTW, inadvertally I came across a link : http://www.monde-diplomatique.fr/2008/04/VIDAL/15800,

youwere right about de Gaulle alliance with URSS, but you found not convenient to precise why

Mar 24, 2009 - 8:43 am 22. JFM:

Marie Claude

Kabyl web sites tell of FLN, at this time it didn’t have this name, having links with islamists dating back to the 1945 riots. About harkis De Gaulle knew far too well what would happen to them but he still gave strict orders to leave them behind. He also had them disarmed by the French Army: the FLN was in fact much weaker than the harkis and would have lost a confrontation. Officers who helped harkis into France had their careers terminated. The few harkis who came into France were sent into what was little better than death camps (babies in tents and without nhot clothes by -10C) and those who to De Gaulle’s displeasure didn’t die were held in semi-captivity and treted like cattle. But to De Gaulle the life of a harki or even an Algerian French of Spanish or Italian ascent was just an untermensch even if he had fought at Cassino was unworthy of breathing the same air than the vilest of collabos provided he descnded from Gauls or Francs.

Second, about the Monde Dipolmatique, (I cannot believe that you still read this fish rag: it is Le Monde’s mental asylum for its foam at the mouth maoists and trotskysts) when you only consider Roosevelt’s actions and in addition only from the Gaullist viewpoint they could seem reasonable.

But consider this:

-DE Gaulle’s Free French had not precisely taken a very active role in the pre-Torch operations. Yes, yes I know about Bir Hakeim but take a look about the icon of Free France: Leclerc. He fights a minor action with the Italians in Lybia in 1940 and then we don’t hear about him for three and half years until Paris liberation in 1944. He was nowhere to be seen in Syria, neither in Lybia/Egypt/Tunisia, not in Italy. Where was he? What use was he for the allied cause in three and half fricking years? So if you compound the low tempo of operations by Free French forces (I am not saying they were happy about it) with the fact that De Gaulle was not precisely popular between North Africa’s civilians or in the French Armed Forces can you fault Roosevelt for trying to find an alternative to the self-proclaimed and unelected leader of Free France who had ever seemed more concerned by creating trouble to the Allies and maneuvering to position himself as future head of state than by contributing to defeating the Germans? (Agreed Darlan was a major political blunder and Churchill tells how he hated him, how he loathed Roosevelt forcing him to support the admiral and how glad he was when he was murdered. Now there were other generals or admirals to pick).

But that is not the main point.

If you keep in mind Soviet Union’s and French Communist Party’s role in making France’s defeat possible in the first place then De Gaulle contacts with both suddenly look a lot muddier: selling his soul to the devil in order to raise to power; the Communist Party would help him into becoming the effective leader of the resistance (at this time De Gaulle’s wasn’t even accepted asx leader by the main non communist resistance movements) and to raise to power in exchange he would make the non-communist resistance accept the ex-collabos, er I mena the communists, into the fold, provide them major levers to control French intellectual life in the post war (In case you are curious about why a mediocrity like Sartre had such influence he presided the Purification Committee after the war and thus ensured that editing companies directors, litterary critics, juries for litterary awards were his sycophants and… hampered the carreers of those who weren’t nice to him or the Party) and to make France de-facto neutral country. De Gaulle no longer sounds that patriotic isn’t it?

Mar 24, 2009 - 10:32 am 23. mags:

To imply that there is no critism of Pakistan here in the U.K is actually wrong.It’s a bit rich,considering the U.S changed Musharraf from a pariah dictator to a feted world leader.Pakistan being one of the biggest recipient of U.S aid and has written off 1.5 billion debt and given 3million in military assistence.
Sky news is actually running broadcast’s from Pakistan to address the issue of some British muslims supporting Pakistan over the U.K.

The threat level has gone up,even shopping malls are being taught how to look for muslim terrorists.
Just because we have not carpet bombed Pakistan does not mean we don’t understand the threat.

The tedious belief that we can’t discuss actions by the Israeli state without being accused of anti-semitism stifles debate.

Watch this,i know you despise George Galloway and consider him a terrorist but it could of been anybody.
It however captures the reason’s people might view Israel in a different light.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vV_jeGB1B3U

Mar 24, 2009 - 11:10 am 24. JFM:

The tedious belief that we can’t discuss actions by the Israeli state without being accused of anti-semitism stifles debate.

Translation in English: You cannot indignate vbecaéuse Israel shot a bastard who was trying to blow a maternity all while you remain indifferent about the thousands killed by Arabs in Darfur or by Pakistan in India, Afghanistan and between its own minorities without someone asking why and wondering if you are not antisemite. It is not fair.

Mar 24, 2009 - 12:49 pm 25. Marie Claude:

JFM it’s de Gaulle fest, I wonder why, are you a former member of OAS
for having such a hate toward him ? I find that you share quit a lot of OAS sentiments against the arabo-kabyl population though, then I can tell you that OAS didn’t give a damn nickel for the Harkis’life too, that the muslim population was hold by them more untermenshen than untermenschen.

Not sure that the Harkis would have won in Algeria, they were hated by too far much of their compatriot population, while FLN had their support, and helps from Moscou from where members got endoctrinement, money was affloating from arab countries, and you wouldn’t believe it, from US senate. If they were such islam inspirated, they wouldn’t had set Boumediene communist government, but an islamist one.

Sure, De Gaulle should have taken care of the Harkis’fate, but he had no choice, France was broke, nazy occupation, Viet Nam war, and then Algeria war, whichmade it too much of bearings for our economical means, we already had to welcome more than a milion of french citizens from Algeria, no jobs were expecting them, fortunately mostof them still had families in metropole where they could stay for a while, that wasn’t the case for the Harkis, plus of muslim religion, which was at these times the first motive to discriminate them, then no place to stay ; some camps were raised for those who could escape and or those who already had the french citizenship. I can remind that these camps, normally, were not ment to last long, at least until some surburbs would be built, well I have seen a bit of the case around Aix en Provence, I dunno why this population remained in such inhabitations, it depended more of the local political powers to change their situation than of de Gaulle’s. I guess that provencal people were not ready to compose with them.

even if he had fought at Cassino

yeah, weren’you saying that these people comitted rapes there too a while ago ? so I understand that you just want to “pinaille” with me, these persons fate are nothing for you but a motive to bash us.

was unworthy of breathing the same air than the vilest of collabos provided he descnded from Gauls or Francs.

OK I guess what kind of person you are, but I won’t tell, cuz I don’t want to get some procedures after my backs, LMAO

Well I know that le monde diplomatique is from lefty obedience, since most of the papers are, but nonentheless still a source, I am not buying an history book on the purpose just to contradict a few persons on the net, beside I have de Gaulle memories by his son, and by Max Gallo, sorry some gallic names are on tonight. Beside, what this paper says it’s also in their’s, and in Kremlin declassified documents.

DE Gaulle’s Free French had not precisely taken a very active role in the pre-Torch operations.

for good reasons, Roosvelt didn’t want, he kept trying to avoid having to deal with De Gaulle ; as far as Leclerc, I haven’t investigated his bio up to now, I know he made some successful operation in Indochine… I had the opportunity to meet one of his grand sons, and he was very proud of his severe grand father.

French resistance without the left parties was more of individual engagements, therefore not unified and their actions were only able to make some “escarmouches” that couldn’t harm german “moral”, but dangerous for local population, as you know germans took civil hostages in retaliation ; only when communist and socialist became deeply involved that a serious organisation could forecast military actions. As communists were the best trained, de Gaulle had to rely on them, he though had to impose his men above them, this is why some serious discussions happened abouth the aftermaths of the war, could be that the alliance that he signed in 1944 with Stalin was part of his political plan, just to have the opportunity to lead the new “provisoire” government, otherwise we know what would have happened, Roosvelt (bizarre, Churchill was more supporting de Gaulle then) wanted to take over all the administration and put his chosen men in place, and we would have become your mirror, just like Japan

Well, it’s a bit far from the subject, you manipulate contradictions for your demonstration, I demand you, is there any French left that you still hold as valuable in your trombinoscope of personalities ? cuz I doubt so !

I’m tell you a secret, too bad for you we are a resistant race

tell me about your nationality, an average American wouldn’t care of the details of our history, are you born on french soil and reversed into a vindicative opponant, some frustration is the cause then, he ?

Mar 24, 2009 - 1:59 pm 26. mags:

JFM,

Just because we criticize Israeli action’s does not mean we agree with terrorism.

Define anti-semitism? Are these anti-semitic as well?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cMs0nai4JQ&feature=PlayList&p=2518494E8649DCE1&playnext=1&index=27

To claim i am indifferent to the plight of muslim’s killing muslim’s is insulting .

However i am sure many here are indifferent to the lives of children in Gaza.

Mar 24, 2009 - 3:32 pm 27. JFM:

JFM it’s de Gaulle fest, I wonder why, are you a former member of OAS
for having such a hate toward him ? I find that you share quit a lot of OAS sentiments against the arabo-kabyl population though, then I can tell you that OAS didn’t give a damn nickel for the Harkis’life too, that the muslim population was hold by them more untermenshen than untermenschen.

Pleaaaaaase. It was not the OAS who abandonned the harkis to be sewn alive. Who was the racist? Also it was those “racists” who alongside with those “racist” Americans you hate fought Free France’s battles while the dyed in the wool French collaborated, turned Jews to the Gestapo or laughed off their asses in the stalags thinking in the fools dying at Omaha Beach.

yeah, weren’you saying that these people comitted rapes there too a while ago ?

Yes I did. But you omit to mention that the subject was not the rapes but the cynism and immorality of the French commanders who tolerated or more exactly implicitly authorized this, the utter racism of those French commanders who thought their North African troops were not worthy or able to be educated and disciplined, that that they were mere animals and that every rape allowed to despise them a bit more.

Sure, De Gaulle should have taken care of the Harkis’fate, but he had no choice, France was broke, nazy occupation, Viet Nam war, and then Algeria war,

Broke? With all the money you had got from America? And French don’t look to be that poor in contemporary movies. Also if they weren’t French enough for the Gauls sharing 1% of their bread with them why didn’t you take their place when they prevented the reoccupation of Strasburg during the Bulge? Why did they have to die in the alsacian snows when so many French were doing nothing more than shaving women’s heads?

whichmade it too much of bearings for our economical means, we already had to welcome more than a milion of french citizens from Algeria, no jobs were expecting them, fortunately mostof them still had families in metropole where they could stay for a while, that wasn’t the case for the Harkis, plus of muslim religion, which was at these times the first motive to discriminate them

Cry me a river. Also tell me about France importing semi-slave labor from North Africa during the sixties.

I have de Gaulle memories by his son

Why not read De Gaulle’s memories by himself?

for good reasons, Roosvelt didn’t want, he kept trying to avoid having to deal with De Gaulle

I am sure this is the explanation for Free French conspicuous lack of action in 1941 (that is before Peal Harbor) and, except for a small number and for short time at Bir Hakeim from January to November 1942 when only the Commonwealth were in contact with the Axis and Roosevlt had no saying about the operations.
as far as Leclerc, I haven’t investigated his bio up to now, I know he made some successful operation in Indochine…

Indochina had been in Vichy hands before being occupied by the Japanese in 1941. This was what led Roosevelt to decree an oil embargo to Japan and triggered the attaxk on Pearl Harbour. Sorry but Leclerc was not in Indochina.

About Roosevelt “plans justifying De Gaulle’s backstabings. Sorry but were Belgium, the
Netherlands or Italy split into small parts and vassalized? Wouldn’t it be that Roosevelt’s eeeeeevil plans about France had been grossly exagerated by De Gaulle in order both to appear as a saviour and to make swallow his deals with the former best friends of the Nazis?

I’m tell you a secret, too bad for you we are a resistant race

It is not dangerous to resist Americans.. Pity that you were not so resistant against the Germans.

tell me about your nationality, an average American wouldn’t care of the details of our history, are you born on french soil and reversed into a vindicative opponant, some frustration is the cause then, he ?

I am not an average American. Also you would be surprised about how much I know about Mustafa Kemal and the fall of the ottoman empire. Would that make me a Turk?

Mar 24, 2009 - 4:51 pm 28. Marie Claude:

“cry me a river”, read that lately, a signature he ! I’m not re-playing the act, besides it has had quite a few performances, and also you as the main actor

OAS might have not abandonned their Harkis but they also could fire at them like at rabbits with no sentiments, whenever it was convenient.

Who was the racist? Also it was those “racists” who alongside with those “racist” Americans you hate fought Free France’s battles while the dyed in the wool French collaborated, turned Jews to the Gestapo or laughed off their asses in the stalags thinking in the fools dying at Omaha Beach.

yeah, all the video show that, I wonder who made them, YOU ?

the utter racism of those French commanders who thought their North African troops were not worthy or able to be educated and disciplined, that that they were mere animals and that every rape allowed to despise them a bit more.

and what was my response ? Patton was the commandant in chief there, and could care less of what were doing these troops, besides might be that Americans troops exactlywere making the same thing, I read it somewhere, umm you know the “Repos du guerrier” isn’t a fiction

Broke? With all the money you had got from America? And French don’t look to be that poor in contemporary movies.

Ah OK, your references are movies for statting so, LMAO, aren’t you afraid to look like a joke !!!

You know perfectly that the Marshal plan was ment to rebuilt the infrastructures that your planes destroyed, beside there are videos that you should have viewed, since your references are images, and I doubt that de Gaulle had access to american money LMAO

why didn’t you take their place when they prevented the reoccupation of Strasburg during the Bulge? Why did they have to die in the alsacian snows when so many French were doing nothing more than shaving women’s heads?

who was the big manitou of the armies ? Eisenhower, and d’ya know why the French weren’t sent there, because Patton was, you know why Eisenhower sent him there, cuz he was making such a mess everywhere he went trough the french population, so to make sure his energy was well used the wiseness was to keep him busy to fight on the Germans borders, he made quit a good job, I saw a monument devoted to his bravoure in Thionville !

Not only the French were shaving women’s heads, there are videos from Belgium, Nederland… too, but you didn’t watch them, surprise !

semi slave labor ? how come you dare to talk of it with such an hypocrite pity ! they were paid the same price as french men doing the same job, he socialist laws made that equality ! if they were need, it’s because our following wars made that they weren’t enough frenchmen available, plus the last remains for reconstruction and more for the modernisation of our big cities started at this time too.

hey, how many aliens are not decleared in your country ? 16 millions that can’t pretend to an average salary decreated by laws, so your moral lectures, swallow them, I hope you’ll get an indigestion

Why not read De Gaulle’s memories by himself?

cuz I have videos, and you hold him as a liar ! though I have read some exterpts, and rather his booklets !

About Leclerc, I didn’t say he was there during the WWII, but for Viet Nam’s

No Roosvelt plans were to make a french protectorat, “punish the french”, that he wanted and said to Churchill, that became a well used sentence in some of your late big mouths too !

It is not dangerous to resist Americans.. Pity that you were not so resistant against the Germans.

especially if they are on the net, LMAO, where were you when the Germans were over ? me, not born ! but be sure that I would have been fighting them too

I am not an average American. Also you would be surprised about how much I know about Mustafa Kemal and the fall of the ottoman empire. Would that make me a Turk?

I don’t need a drawing, I know who you are, no normal conversation can be expected, you are on the passionate anger side where I can’t follow you

Mar 24, 2009 - 6:22 pm 29. Marie Claude:

Oscar I found several old videos of the french armada before the war, as I know that you’re fond of military stuff

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwR-5HqL6PE

Mar 24, 2009 - 8:39 pm 30. MiamaMan:

Recently, in a trip to India someone told me that the value of the life of a person there is the cheapest in the world. Trying to make a point.

The partition of India has been crucial to the resurgence of Islam, as Pakistan is the only Muslim nation with nuclear weapons so far. Partition happened for several reasons, one of them the lack of vision and hard-headed policy of Mahatma Gandhi when trying to appease the Muslim League and Mr. Jinna. It never works with the Muslims. Not accepting the Sir Stafford Cripps’ proposal for Dominion Status in 1942 was a big mistake, and even though Nehru was for it at first, Gandhi finally convinced him against it. The only clear head during this process was Sri Aurobindo, exiled in Pondicherry, who sent a personal friend to the Indian Congress to advocate for the Cripps’ proposal, and said that the Hindus must prepare to fight the Muslims if necessary to prevent partition.

Results, ad Ms. Carol Gould points out:
1) Over one million dead, totally the opposite of the “Ahimsa” or non-injury policy of Mahatma Gandhi. Clearly, appeasement and passive resistance works only in very specific circumstances. It did not here.
2) The creation of the mongrel state called Pakistan, and later Bangladesh, and a string of human right violations against Hindus for years and years: murder, mayhem, expulsions, you name it.

Paki come home. Only when the partition of India is reversed, there will a chance of peace in that region (Kashmir is the festering wound now). This will also bring balance is other places within the Muslim world. Reunion is not impossible.

Mar 25, 2009 - 5:34 am 31. Marie Claude:

JFM, I got some news about Philippe de Hauteclocque, from your favorite source, umm he was fighting succesfully the Italians in Lybia, then with the 2nd DB he was affected with Paton troops, though he was rather speedy, won some races above Patton troops… I guess that those two weren’t able to make a team, sumethin tells me that that pleased de Gaulle…

http://www.lepoint.fr/actualites-monde/la-division-leclerc-l-homme-a-la-canne-de-la-2e-db/924/0/18021

Mar 25, 2009 - 9:02 pm 32. Marie Claude:

BTW, can you tell me if Alexandre Kojeve was the inspirator of de Gaulle ? seems that his ideas are at the origin of our global global whatever sh**t happens today

Mar 26, 2009 - 10:59 am 33. JFM:

Mrs Marie Claude

You are really incredible. Ever trying to divert attention. I was telling that the North Africans (untermenschen in De Gaulle’s mind) should have not been fighting the Bulge battle and doing the dying when there were so many French (the real ones, the herrensvolk) who should have been catching up on that work they dropped in 1940. And you come saying that they were there because of Eisenhower. That was not the point. The point was that those North Africabns had been French enough to fight and die for saving Strasburg then they were FRENCH. Period. Far more French than any Vychist. That has ever been a cornerstone of western civilization since Sparta granted citizenship to the helots who had fought for her.

Also you told that France was broke and when I pointed at contemporary movies you laughed at me. You shouldn’t have. You can learn a lot from movies if you look at the crowd. Not at the actors (these are ever beautiful people), not at the extras but at the crowd. For instance when you look at the people far away from the camera in the Berkeley shots in “The Graduate” you notice that Americans weren’t fat in the sixties. And when you look at what is far away from the camera (ie beond the extras) you don’t see derelict buildings or people in shabby clothes and looking hungry.

But even if France was far worse off than it was it was her duty to take those who had fought for it,, specially given the savage and sadistic nature of the FLN thugs. And in case you had no room for them (two hundred thousand people on a population of fourty millions) just shoot or deport a few thousands vichysts and communists (who in addition of their 1940 betrayal had been helping the FLN and in some occasions setting bombs who killed French) and hey presto: There is room now.

What I also find utterly apalling is your complete lack of morality. Now I could understand that you justified atrocities when like for the man in the Russian tale who throws his son to the wolves, France’s existence was at stake. But it wasn’t at stake at Lepanto (look at the painting “Les Massacres de Scio” and multiply by one thousnad), it wasn’t at stake at the second siege of Vienna, it wasn’t at stake for the harkis just slightly tightening its belt and tens of thousands dies in the most horrible ways, it wasn’t at stake for the Six days War (genocide had Israel lost), it wasn’t at stake when you tried hard to have Saddam own nukes), it wasn’t at stake for Rwanda (just Total’s balance sheet) when you supported a government you klnew too weel was pfreparingf for genocide, later covered the retreat of the Interamwe and ended rearmeing them. Nothing of this is ever wrong to you.

Mar 26, 2009 - 3:37 pm 34. Marie Claude:

I was telling that the North Africans (untermenschen in De Gaulle’s mind)

I think you want to see De Gaulle as a fieffé racist, though it’s your contemporain reading of him, De Gaulle was a man that had the maurrasian views of the late half 19th century and of the earlier half of 20th’s, not of an enlightened internationalist’s. Some of his thoughts could be pronounced by you :

” Les musulmans, vous êtes allés les voir ? Vous les avez regardés avec leurs turbans et leur djellabas, vous voyez bien que ce ne sont pas des Français ! Ceux qui prônent l’intégration ont une cervelle de colibri, même s’ils sont très intelligents. Essayez d’intégrer de l’huile et du vinaigre. Agitez la bouteille. Au bout d’un moment, ils se séparent de nouveau. Les Arabes sont des Arabes, les Français sont des Français. Vous croyez que le corps français peut absorber 10 millions de musulmans qui demain seront 20 millions, et après demain 40 ? ”

I guess his vocabulary and some of his other opinions hurt you.If he was born in the fourties, he wouldn’t advocate theses that hurt you, he would be the kind of conservative that you are praising.

some of his colorful sentences from a person that surely doesn’t see de Gaulle as a sympathetic man (DG would be attacked by anti-racist associations nowadays) :

http://contreculture.org/AG%20De%20Gaulle%20id%E9es%20directrices.html

who should have been catching up on that work they dropped in 1940. And you come saying that they were there because of Eisenhower

umm, difficult to follow your logic, as it seems to deny us any good intention, or courage

though as far as 1940, this american army historian doesn’t say that the French didn’t try anything, but that the elite misunderstood when it could have been its chances to take over Germany :

http :// http://www.historynet.com/operation-saar-a-lost-opportunity-september-99-world-war-ii-feature.htm

as far as the Bulge operation, Leclerc was on Strassburg’s, of course with his heteroclite army (resistants + colonials).

Avant la fin de l’année 1944, le 23 novembre, ses troupes libèrent Strasbourg, occasion d’une prise d’arme pour rappeler que le serment de Koufra a été tenu. Ultimes faits d’armes, ce sont les soldats français de Leclerc qui s’emparent du Kehlsteinhaus, le « nid d’aigle » d’Adolf Hitler à Berchtesgaden en Bavière, quelques jours seulement avant l’armistice du 8 mai 1945.

The point was that those North Africabns had been French enough to fight and die for saving Strasburg then they were FRENCH. Period. Far more French than any Vychist. That has ever been a cornerstone of western civilization since Sparta granted citizenship to the helots who had fought for her.

Well these are the rules to become American, these also are the rules in our foreign legion, these should have become the rules for these colonial fighters, though lot of them used their experience of WW2 to initiate independance guerilla afterwords.

The Graduate” you notice that Americans weren’t fat in the sixties.

hey, you are not American ; An American would tell you that California is apart, that that’s where the people mensurations look more like the Europeans’… I went to Florida (Fort Lauderdale, Miami) in 1973, I was young, What schocked me were the fat people in the streets, I was expecting to see some kind of hollywood creatures, I’m not saying they were all fat, the average ones were.

As far as French movies, you can’t rely on them for witnessings of reality, they were all made inside studios, the population that you want to see as “well feed”, were “figurants”, I suppose that the Regissor chose them on photogenical criteriums, like it used to be for fictional movies before that the italian school initiated “cinema neorealism”, ie de Sica, Rosselini…

http :// fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/N%C3%A9or%C3%A9alisme_(cin%C3%A9ma)

just shoot or deport a few thousands vichysts and communists (who in addition of their 1940 betrayal had been helping the FLN and in some occasions setting bombs who killed French) and hey presto: There is room now. /i>

If you are an American, you have lots more than us to deport !

for any government of this period,(French, not the puppet’s of Roosvelt choice), it was absolutely necessary to compose with the whole lot, the Vichysts still hold the economical means, (though de Gaulle nationalised some of avered collaborators’ such as Renault, private railsways Cies…) and the commies, that assumed the heaviest cost in the Resistance, and thus prevented that a civil war, (also classes war) from ensueing. Besides, Germany didn’t deport her nazy members, neither Austria, Belgium, Netherland, Italy (her facists)…

What I also find utterly apalling is your complete lack of morality.

HAHAHA, I don’t know what you mean, what is your morality ? from what I read, you want to exterminate all the muslims, next, the French, next, the Russians….

Your last paragraph is still repeating your own fictions of events that you don’t want to acknoledge in neutral history books, though different from your version, in the reliant sources, but your agenda is to make the French look “evil”, this was part of the former neo-con administration agendas : define an enemi, useful to unify a population behind a cause, the “supposed global war on terrorism”, investing their territories, naturally rich in energy sources, would find its justification !

It doesn’t matter for you how many incoherences there are in the frame, people won’t bother to verify them if you hammered them like advertising slogans, they become part of the collective memory !

But, the neo-cons lose, you’re a “has been” now ! and they don’t make history anymore, ah, may-be are you going to initiate a new-age revolution, like the last hippies’one, hey, you’v got to wash your brain first, a tabula rasa is need

Mar 27, 2009 - 9:34 am 35. Richard:

Carol,
partition, and it’s terrible consequences, only happened because the Brits had lost power.

Mar 27, 2009 - 10:13 am 36. Marie Claude:

JFM

De Gaulle [1], c’est de lui qu’il s’agit. En 1967, cet homme que les iraniens vénèrent peut-être plus que les français a fait une déclaration juste avant la « Guerre des 6 Jours » [2], la troisième guerre israélo-arabe.

«Messieurs, je vais vous demander de mettre fin à notre séance. Je dois en effet vous quitter, afin de recevoir le ministre des Affaires étrangères d’Israël, M. Eban, qui est de passage à Paris. Mais je veux que vous sachiez ce que je vais lui dire. De toute évidence, vais-je déclarer au ministre d’Israël, vous vous orientez vers la reprise des hostilités. Si vous le faites, vous gagnerez à coup sûr, et sans délai. Mais cela aura trois graves conséquences.

D’abord, l’implantation soviétique au Moyen-Orient, et par contrecoup, en Afrique – ce qui n’est pas sans importance pour la France – se développera. L’équilibre mondial s’en trouvera menacé. Deuxième conséquence: dans le monde arabe, les régimes modérés seront découragés et tomberont pour céder la place aux extrémistes.

Il s’en suivra une menace sur le ravitaillement en pétrole de l’Occident et surtout de l’Europe. Enfin, le problème palestinien, qui n’est encore qu’un problème de réfugiés, deviendra une grande cause nationale. En conclusion, je dirai ceci à M. Eban : Nous ne voulons à Israël que du bien. Les avertissements que nous vous prodiguons doivent être considérés comme des marques d’intérêt et d’amitié. Ne prenez pas le mors aux dents.»

http://www.iran-resist.org/article2410.html

visionnaire, isn’t he ?

Mar 27, 2009 - 5:32 pm

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