Pajamas Media

263 Comments

1. Sarge:

What I think isn’t important. What the PRESS thinks is. This is a fact of life unfortunatly.
I thought McCain handled himself better than I expected and Obama was general in answers and not specific enough, probably didn’t rehearse enough!

Sep 26, 2008 - 8:28 pm 2. ahem:

McCain pretty much showed up Obama as the naive, callow, ignorant hack he is. Debate all you want about who you think won, but if your turned the sound off and gauged events by the look on Obama’s face, you’d have to admit that he looked very much like he knew he was losing. He was verrry unhappy. I predict he’ll try to get out of the rest of the debates. And he reminded me of Nixon with the 5 o’clock shadow.

Sep 26, 2008 - 8:33 pm 3. cbullitt:

McCain let Obama continually say AL Qaida is “resurgent, stonger than ever.” It would have been a perfect “there you go again” opportunity. The Taliban is resurgent, not Al Qaida. Al Qaida is almost totally wiped out, per their own admission and multiple intellegence analyses.
The pundits also said there was no soundbite. I thought: “I don’t even have a presidential seal” was pretty good.
I am not optimistic. I agree with Krauthammer that if you didn’t stick a stake through his heart, its a loser. I’ll prepare to huddle in the cold and dark with only Soylent Green to eat.

Sep 26, 2008 - 8:35 pm 4. Woody:

I could barely listen to the debate as Obama tried to have it both ways on the war…. More troops in Iraq didn’t make a difference, but more troops in Afghanistan would make a difference. There is something very wrong with his logic box….

Sep 26, 2008 - 8:42 pm 5. WT:

Maybe I’ve had too much to drink, but the whole aesthetic of the debate favored McCain. Obama came off as someone who’s never had his various positions questioned in any substantive way. He was on defense, and his defense came up lacking. McCain was direct, and he was able to point out where he differed from the Bush administration. Obama’s running a campaign against someone other than McCain, and it showed.

Sep 26, 2008 - 8:51 pm 6. von Rum:

The first third or so of this debate was not a disaster for either campaign. McCain did perhaps show a little more detail. On the issues of foreign policy and defense however McCain clearly distanced himself from Obama. He made Obama seem an ethereal and theoretic figure.

von Rum

Sep 26, 2008 - 8:52 pm 7. christopher:

John McCain was using his STUMP speech 90% in this debate. SAD…VERY SAD

This country is in trouble if he is elected.

BACKWARD LOOKING

Sep 26, 2008 - 8:54 pm 8. chicago:

The pundits on Fox were saying that there were no good soundbites. I think there were two soundbites that gave McCain the victory and that people will remember:

1) “John you’re right!” – stated 8 times by Obama, made McCain look like the better candidate as his opponent agreed with him on almost all of what McCain stated.

2) “Senator Obama does not understand” – stated 5 times by McCain, painted Obama as clueless on foreigh policy.

No matter how much the mainstream media and the Obama camp spins this debate, the two statements above were drilled into people’s minds tonight and I believe will have lasting effect.

Sep 26, 2008 - 8:54 pm 9. USA:

Did you notice that Obama has a bracelet too? Too bad he had to look down to see whose name was on it.

Sep 26, 2008 - 8:55 pm 10. Nomobama:

I am a Clinton Democrat who believes that Senator John McCain won tonight’s debate. In fact, I believe that John held his own on the economy portion of the debate, and whipped Obama’s butt in the foreign policy portion. I am even more comfortable with my decision to vote for John McCain in November… my very first vote for a Republican ever!

Sep 26, 2008 - 8:58 pm 11. Nomobama:

Oh, and by the way, Senator Obama does not understand…! John McCain used that line many times during the debate, and it was very effective in my opinion.

Sep 26, 2008 - 8:59 pm 12. jvon:

You’re right, Obama needed more practice. Maybe another 20 years worth or so.

Sep 26, 2008 - 8:59 pm 13. mfm-ca:

I was surprised how well McCain did in this debate. I have read the talk about how he doesn’t debate well (townhalls are more his forte), but he was clear and succinct in ideas and details. He left little doubt where he stood. Obama is the better speaker of the two, but he doesn’t seem to have much in the way of specifics. It also appeared at times when he wasn’t sure of an answer that he would just defer to McCain and agree with him, not exactly a string debate tactic.

Sep 26, 2008 - 8:59 pm 14. garjog:

McCain dominated the ground on almost all issues. In other words, his frame of the issues were the ones that both candidates ended up talking about. Obama was constantly trying to refute McCain’s perspective without making his vivid.

McCain’s image of the bracelet was emotional and sincere and made his point well. Obama then responded that he had his own bracelet — but to compare the two lines, it is McCain who brought it up and resonated strongly.

McCain kept repeating his message, that he is more experienced. But, Obama’s message of “Bush’s third term” didn’t seem persuasive to me.

Obama’s reference to his father dreaming of coming to America because of opportunities here sounded inspiring, until he added that people in the world today look down upon America. That just isn’t true and is offensive. His anti-Americanism shows through.

This guy would be a disaster as President. Am I the only one to see this?

Sep 26, 2008 - 9:00 pm 15. ahem:

Yes, Christopher: I’d say you are very backward-looking. 1968, perhaps?

Sep 26, 2008 - 9:02 pm 16. chicago:

Nomobama:

Oh, and by the way, Senator Obama does not understand…! John McCain used that line many times during the debate, and it was very effective in my opinion.

as I suspected, that line is going to stick in people’s minds! LOL!

Sep 26, 2008 - 9:03 pm 17. Nomobama:

There was another good soundbite made my John McCain concerning Putin in Russia. John stated, “I looked into Mister Putin’s eyes and saw three letters… a K, a G, and a B”.

Sep 26, 2008 - 9:04 pm 18. Dan:

One moment that I found telling was when, after McCain talked about his bracelet, Obama retorted, “I have a bracelet too, it’s of…uhh….SGT..uhh”. He had to look down at the bracelet before his mouth found the name! And he wants to be Commander-In-Chief?!

Sep 26, 2008 - 9:05 pm 19. Nomobama:

I agree, Dan. John McCain knew exactly whose name was on his bracelet. Barack spent a couple of ackward seconds looking at his bracelet to see whose name was on his. That stuck out in my mind, too.

Sep 26, 2008 - 9:08 pm 20. Lee:

McCain won this debate easy. The only thing I wish McCain would have pressed more was how Obama wants to give lollipop hand outs paid for by taxpayers to get votes. The idea of getting out of Iraq without victory and than actually talking about going after Pakistan-a nuclear power-seems more like Bush style foriegn policy. Obama is truely one empty individual.

Sep 26, 2008 - 9:09 pm 21. chicago:

Dan, LOL! Obama looked very immature playing the “me too!” game. McCain has had that bracelet for months and has been talking about the bracelet many times…Obama thought he needed a bracelet too!

LMAO!

Sep 26, 2008 - 9:09 pm 22. Hoss:

I don’t see how Obama gets off wanting to be commander-in-chief when he has to look down on his bracelet to see what hero’s name is written on it.

Sep 26, 2008 - 9:09 pm 23. Indy:

McCain has more experience and did as expected;however, Obama came off as someone who could hold his own and give as well as he got. I’d call it a draw as far as foreign policy with Obama as the clear winner during the economic portion.

Note to McCain, body language says alot and he lost points with me because he appeared compative rather than presidential.

Sep 26, 2008 - 9:12 pm 24. chicago:

The McCain camp works fast!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ec3aC8ZJZTc

new ad campaign with Barry agreeing with McCain during the debates.

Sep 26, 2008 - 9:12 pm 25. Matt:

Dudes: let’s get real for half a second. The pundits are all coming to the same conclusion. It was, at best, a tie. And since this was supposed to be McCain’s strength and he’s already losing in the polls, a tie is of no use to him whatsoever.

Also, I love the idea that McCain avoided looking nasty and ill-tempered. Only on Pajamasmedia would anyone say such a thing. Obama looked decent, rational, and presidential. McCain looked angry, arrogant, and like the drama queen that he is.

High five if you like, but McCain is a sinking ship. And just WAIT till the Palin hits the fan.

Sep 26, 2008 - 9:12 pm 26. CALIndie:

I’ve said it before, Barack Obama is an actor. He is imppersonating a Jr. Senator from Illinois. Barack Obama is one of the smoothest if not the smoothest talkers I’ve ever heard. A great percentage of Americans will fall for his Academy Award winning speeches.

When it comes down to it in the election booth, with nothing to choose but who do you believe, who do you trust, John McCain is simply more believable and trustworthy.

Barack Obama is forceful. Barack Obama is confident. Barack Obama is measured and yes, indeed, Presidential at times. But most of all, Barack Obama is empty of experience and achievment and therefore he has no choice but to become a polished actor striving for the most powerful job in the world. I’m fairly alarmed he has gotten this far.

Does anyone believe that Mel Gibson gave his life for his country in Braveheart? Does anyone believe that Al Pacino was blind in Scent of a Woman? Does anyone believe that Kevin Costner was a civil war officer in Dances with Wolves? People, please… we have been thoroughly conditioned to believe in good actors. Barack Obama is acting and he is very, very good at it.

Barack Obama has never done anything but talk. John McCain was walked the talk on both sides of the aisle. Barack Obama would govern for 40% of America at the expense of the other 60% plain and simple. Barack Obama would implement socialism across the board. Barack Obama would grow government handouts that would negatively impact our country for the next 100 years.

I predict: John McCain 52% Barack Obama 42% in a landslide for experience, truth and honesty… in the still, quite moment in the voting booth. Obama has outslicked himself.

Sep 26, 2008 - 9:13 pm 27. jbl:

I wouldn’t call McCain “BACKWARD LOOKING”. He knows about the past and plans for the future and spoke of both. Obama was “backward looking.” All he did was talk about the past and act like he was running against Bush.

Sep 26, 2008 - 9:15 pm 28. chicago:

LOL! here comes the Obama spinmeisters.

g’night all! John McCain mopped the floor with Obama tonight, no matter how Obama, his campaign, the liberal media, or his followers spin it.

Sep 26, 2008 - 9:20 pm 29. mrkwong:

Matt – yes, let’s get real. Please go back to whatever Troll Mothership you teleported down from. You (and Joe Biden) ought to learn that spin completely disconnected from reality is just comedy.

Sep 26, 2008 - 9:21 pm 30. Maura:

McCain won. The NYT, politico, MSNBC and CNN will disagree, but Obama could’ve said nothing and they’d still say he won. They are so used to thinking that if you lie long enough people will think it’s the truth, and that people still need MSM to tell them what to think.

Obama looked angry and frustrated. Not a good look on him. Next time he should ride in on a unicorn. PERFECT look for him!

Sep 26, 2008 - 9:23 pm 31. Anthony:

I agree with McCain that that Obama just doesn’t understand. we need to win this Iraq war if it takes our kids, grandkids, and every generation after that to do it. Heck, I think everyone in this forum should enlist and help out in the Iraq War. This is the most important thing for America right now. We should never take away our focus on the most important thing right now and that is the Iraq War.

Sep 26, 2008 - 9:24 pm 32. Indy:

The most unfortunate decision that McCain ever made was the Palin selection. I preferred him to Obama but Palin changed everything. No matter how well McCain does the thought of Palin clouds my judgement.

At this time I am seriously leaning Obama.

Sep 26, 2008 - 9:25 pm 33. tom:

McCain clearly won this debate, just watching Barak’s fuming when he didn’t like the answer was very telling.

But John needed to hammer home the Fanny Freedie debacle was the dems and now they are adding pork and acorn to a bail out

in addition, McCain needs to talk in the next debate how lowering taxes (Bush cuts and capital gains) actually leads to very large increases in tax revenues to the gov.

he keeps letting mr punish the rich get away with totally bad economics

Sep 26, 2008 - 9:32 pm 34. Anthony:

McCain was also right to not have to answer to Obama why he voted with Bush 90% of the time. Why should he? Iraq was the right war and this is the most important thing for America. If anybody knows war, it’s McCain. Who is Obama to question McCain about war? Nobody knows war better than McCain.

Sep 26, 2008 - 9:32 pm 35. otherjeff:

I think if you are looking for the mantle of change, or forward looking-McCain is your man. Obama consistently tonight talked about the past.

Mccain won the foreign policy part of this debate easy.

Obama won the first two questions because he was clearer, more concise.

Sep 26, 2008 - 9:37 pm 36. SlimtoNone:

Indy..Palin is not running against Obama. She’s running against Biden. If you seriously prefer Bidin over Palin, then I agree, your judgement is seriously clouded.

Sep 26, 2008 - 9:38 pm 37. CALIndie:

Indy – You have a mental illness if you think Barack Obama’s carefully crafted life with communist (little c) masters of socialism is good for America. Don’t give us this sh*t about Sarah Palin clouding your judgement.

If ridding the government of corruption, waste and bureaucracy is clouding your judgement then it is my wish that your impairment becomes debilitating.

Sep 26, 2008 - 9:39 pm 38. pobeth:

I don’t like to say who won. But i am a Dem female that after the debate picked my pres its McCain. I also did’t like Obama keep talking about Bush sorry people all know how for years the dems have Bashed BUSH just so Obama can say things about McCain but McCain is not BUSH and by the way I like Bush. Obama is all talk, and He did’t do this very good. tonight.

Sep 26, 2008 - 9:40 pm 39. Matt:

Mrkowng:

What kills me is that Pajamasmedia purports to be some kind of “alternative” to the infamous “liberal media.” I suppose it’s true, in as much as the Conservapedia is an alternative to the Wikipedia. That is to say, simply inventing a new reality of your own liking is not being “more honest” or “more correct”; it is being psychotic.

I wouldn’t normally be so confrontational with a group of people who clearly disagree with my own take, but when we both look at the same debate, one in which John McCain could barely contain his anger and disdain, one in which he couldn’t even look his debating opponent in the eye, and you tell me Barack Obama came off as angry? Well, then, yeah, I call you psychotic.

Sep 26, 2008 - 9:41 pm 40. JMH:

Obama’s preparation paid off. He didn’t stammer around saying “uh… uh… ah… y’know…” and wasn’t lost without his teleprompter. But McCain won. Ironically, young, hip Obama came across as the stodgey old guard, blathering generalities about middle class, main street, taxing corporations, new programs, ensure this, ensure that, help people, chicken-in-every-pot, negoatiate with thugocracies for the sake of negotiating, blame the other party for everything, claim you were “for that too”, yadda-blah-blah. McCain had the new approach. Knock off the earmarks, put crooks in jail, hold people accountable, acknowledge inconvenient realities.

People who fell in love with Obama will think he won, because he talked a lot and was smooth doing it. But he didn’t say anything. Maybe that’s enough to win, but the more gut checks the American people get, the less likely they are to buy it.

Sep 26, 2008 - 9:41 pm 41. Michael T:

Obama stuttered his way through the debate. He was very nervous and made the cardinal error of stating that he was in agreement with McCain on several issues.Ithink Mccain used the”I was over there” card too much. Overall I think McCain won.

Sep 26, 2008 - 9:43 pm 42. ex-democrat:

indy = obamabot.

ditto anthony.

shoo.

Sep 26, 2008 - 9:45 pm 43. RustyG:

McCain’s got my vote, but I nearly spewed when he said “Iran has a struggling economy because of their poorly run government, even with all the oil they have”. Gee, do any other countries fit that description?

Sep 26, 2008 - 9:56 pm 44. Indy:

CALIndie, how constructive…I guess you just get off on writing nasty responses on anonymous blogs. Regardless, no, I don’t have a mental illness but you should watch what you wish for others…it has a way of coming right back at you.

Sep 26, 2008 - 10:00 pm 45. fred:

The media will try to spin this as positively for Obama as they can reasonably get away with. So, be prepared to find some very interesting ways of describing Sen. McCain’s performance in the coming week that will make him look bumbling, while Obama will be characterized as more thoughtful.

I doubt the debate will change many minds. The people who are already going to vote for Obama are not going to alter their resolution at all. The reasons why they are voting for him have nothing at all to do with any serious appraisal of the emerging threats we are seeing from rogue Islamic and totalitarian regimes. Obama’s lack of seriousness and depth on this topic mirrors their own.

Sep 26, 2008 - 10:04 pm 46. Americano:

It was clear to me that McCain won the debate. Obama kept drifting of the topic of discussion and posed questions unrelated. I also noticed he forgot John McCain’s name on 2 occasions. He looked distraught throughout the entire debate. He didn’t show much respect for McCain by interupting his responses on many occasions. Obama seems to have troubles with debates; hence, the debates with Hillary. I don’t understand the polls claiming victory for Obama.
People, listen to the questions! And hear who is dangling around their answers? Have Americans become beligerant?

Sep 26, 2008 - 10:04 pm 47. Roger L. Simon » Obama: the Kissinger Blunder:

[...] with him (Obama) about negotiating with Ahmadinejad.  Kissinger was clearly alarmed, issuing this response within minutes: “Senator McCain is right. I would not recommend the next President of the United [...]

Sep 26, 2008 - 10:05 pm 48. Cynthia:

I watched the debate with a very diverse (in age and race) group. Also with us was a reporter from the city paper. Almost everyone in the room gave McCain the debate hands down. Obama looked angry and defensive. McCain looked solid as a rock and unflappable. Sorry for all you Obama supporters who look through a rosy lense but Barrack(who called Senator McCain both Tom and Jim during the debate by the way) was flustered because he lacks credentials and experience.

Sep 26, 2008 - 10:06 pm 49. Ric:

Ok. McCain won hands down!

Sep 26, 2008 - 10:14 pm 50. lynn:

Wow, McCain wouldn’t even acknowledge the man on the stage with him – how arrogant and RUDE! He wouldn’t look at him, he seemed angry, cantankerous, condescending he was contentious….and this is who you want to lead us and talk to world leaders? Is he going to meet with Putin and not look at him for an hour and 1/2? Buy a clue! He hasn’t done anything substantive with all of his “experience,” in 26 years to propel this nation forward, but backing Bush 90% of the time? Bottle what you guys are smoking and sell it!! He’s toast!

Sep 26, 2008 - 10:18 pm 51. Bernie:

I watched the debate carefully, at one time would have voted for McCain, can now say I’ll vote for Obama. Any person that stands on a stage speaking of the past, can’t look the other person in the eye, drones on and on, doesn’t listen to what the other person has to say,( I thought he may be hard of hearing) and smirks like a child. I want that for a President? I don’t think so. This wasn’t a debate – it was more like monologues. I doubt very much if McCain will engage in a real “debate”. He lives too much with his past and doesn’t see far enough in the future.

Sep 26, 2008 - 10:24 pm 52. Peggy:

My overall impression is that the debate showed that Obama may know a thing or two, but compared to McCain, he looked like a mere pup. Whilw Obama didn’t do badly, he clearly can’t beat McCain’s experience and saavy.

Advantage McCain.

I thought the last word that McCain got it just clinched it. He knocked it out of the park with that. Sly ol dog. He was probably saving that all along just waiting for the kill. Then wham. Debate over. haha. You don’t survive in the Senate for more than 20 years as a maverick, and a successful one at that, without really being a master of some serious skills. Obama never saw it coming.

Sep 26, 2008 - 10:26 pm 53. david levavi:

The case against an American president negotiating with the likes of an Ahmadinejad was proved by tonight’s debate. Merely by sharing a stage with McCain and debating national issues, Obama appears to be McCain’s equal.

I agree with CALIndie. Obama is faking it. He’s an attractive, personable, well-spoken front office African American completely out of his depth. Beneath the measured aplomb, he’s flying blind in a snowstorm.

Sep 26, 2008 - 10:30 pm 54. Algen:

RustyG, If you are alluding to the United States, you are right. The Democrats have been blocking oil exploration and development for at least 20 years. And they have the nerve to say that President Bush is the one in the Arabs pocket.

Sep 26, 2008 - 10:38 pm 55. Dan:

I think McCain won tonight’s debate – though I am going to vote for McCain

The beginning on the economic policy, they were probably about tied in the eyes of most viewers. I personally did not understand Obama saying what new programs he was going to start when asked how he would cut the budget. He also did not seem to understand that more taxes does not always mean more money for the state (google “Laffer curve”).

That being said, the first half was probably a tie and did not convince anyone.

I think McCain won the second half of the debate. Obama did not seem to know an answer for the questions about Georgia – reverting to some more canned lines about the economy – I think even Obama supporters who were honest would admit this. Given the responses, I think I personally would trust McCain over Obama leading the military and negotiating with other nations.

Even though I thought McCain won, I do not think that it will sway too many voters.

Sep 26, 2008 - 10:41 pm 56. Nicole:

I’m actually very afraid to see Palin debate. Cringe!

Sep 26, 2008 - 10:44 pm 57. Believer:

The “bracelet” moment — BO had trouble remembering the name of the soldier, it seemed, but no problem remembering why he had it – “I don’t care who the guy was, but this helps me in my campaign.” It emphasized his narcissism for me.

At the end, in retelling his father’s looking to the US as a place of hope and opportunity, he went on to say, “Children around the world don’t look at us the way they used to.” He won’t miss an opportunity to take a swipe at us – it’s what he’s been taught all his life.

All I could think of was his partnership with Ayers(CAC) to teach our own children that we’re not a noble and good nation. And his friend and mentor, Wright, teaching lies at TUCC.

He plans change alright. Our destruction. Destroy our hearts and minds first.

Sep 26, 2008 - 10:44 pm 58. mike:

Oh wow, just looking at the banners on this website and I know how everyone responded to who won the debate. Really? No one thinks Obama won? Well he did. Mccain was like a petulant child who thought that if he said Obama “doesn’t understand” enoough, it may come true. He is a tired, self indulgent (how many houses does he have?) BABY who traded his humble service for politcal opportunism. He reminds me Oliver North- another self indulgent opportunist dressed up a supposed patriot. Mccain in the debate seemed didactic and curmudgeonly. Obama was fresh, intelligent and dignified.

Sep 26, 2008 - 10:45 pm 59. Deus:

Who won?

If you’re Republican: McCain.
He’s a crafty military old politician. Know his soundbites.

If you’re Democrat: Obama.
Knowledgeable and forward-looking.

Independent: Obama by a margin.
McCain brings his record, but no new solutions. Obama knows what the country needs.

Sep 26, 2008 - 10:47 pm 60. Peggy:

As for Palin, I fail to see how being a bad interview (so far) disqualifies one from leadership. That is all that has been proven by her interviews. That and that she is tense and uncomfortable and extremely wary and careful of the MSM that treated her like sh*t before she ever said a word to them.

Puhleaze! The woman has a successful record as governor and before that as a mayor and she has been in debates before. What is new for her and something she hasn’t quite mastered yet is how to be interviewed by a hostile media without getting off message or committing a huge gaffe.

Anyone noticed that she hasn’t done that yet? There have been some awkward moments, perhaps some things said that might have been said better, but nothing major. She doesn’t speak her own mind because she’ll get crucified for it no matter what so its safer to stick to the message. So she hasn’t gotten the toe-ing the party line thing down very well yet. She isn’t smooth and practiced at it. Big deal.

I for one think she may do a lot better in her debate than some of her fair weather friends predict. We may even see the real Sarah at last. I have a feeling that she is much more comfortable just talking and arguing things out than she is in more formal situations.

Sep 26, 2008 - 10:47 pm 61. Ex-fetus:

“This country is in trouble if he is elected.”
I agree. Obama should finish this term in the Senate, then start a small business, run that for about 4 years then do a term as Governor. By then he will have learned the difference between theory and reality and will have the experience to be a good President 2024 would be about right.

“BACKWARD LOOKING” Those that refuse to learn from the past are doomed to repeat it. Don’t worry, being young is curable. Just avoid dying.
I don’t think this debate changed any minds. I will vote for McCain/Palin, but I think this debate was a draw. That means Obama avoided getting smacked down by McCain, so I would give it to Obama since he didn’t lose. McCain missed an opportunity to put some distance between them.
BTW, Obama lied his head off from start to finish. I was disappointed McCain didn’t call him on some of those whoopers.

Sep 26, 2008 - 10:53 pm 62. JMS2008:

I agree with JMH. Obama didn’t say anything. McCain was specific. He cited actual examples of his voting record on real spending issues and on issues as well as on foreign policy. He was able to talk distinctly and succinctly about his voting record in every major military conflict since the Vietnam war. Obama spoke like an academic – using lots of theory and speculation because that’s all he’s got. He’s got no record and no experience. He just couldn’t compete. Every time McCain was speaking, Obama stood there with his head down (and not always because he was feverishly writing things down). I think Barack Obama realized that he is short about 15 years on competence to even run for president. Tonight, I did not see an old guy up against a young, fresh face. I saw a seriously prepared, experienced and knowledgeable man who very clearly knows what he’s doing, up against a pouting, defensive neophyte, who does not know anything thoroughly enough to lead the American people (most of whom, I would guess after seeing this debate, have more experience to be president than Obama does). McCain kicked Obama’s ass into orbit tonight.

Sep 26, 2008 - 10:55 pm 63. MoreThanWords:

I am so tired of empty phrases like “I’m a maverick”, “Obama’s just going to raise your taxes” and “I care about America”. I am so tired of hearing about the totally irrelevant fact that McCain was once a POW. What I want are real plans not hyperbole! When I see the fact-checkers on the news programs debunking McCain’s claims, and then see McCain still using those same empty, untrue statements in the debate tonight … it’s not a surprise he’s slipping in the polls. At long last, Americans (well, a LOT of you) are finally waking up from your Sarah Palin stupors and are realizing … you’ve been PLAYED!

Sep 26, 2008 - 11:02 pm 64. Carlos:

To all McCain supporters that do not fit in his pretty exclusive social circle, in other words middle-to-low class american workers:
I will be laughing at ya’ll when senator McCain won’t even remember you all (if elected president) becasue he will be very busy paying for the favors given by his then campaing lobbysts advisers and political friends, then he will first provide with jobs to those greedy economic advisors, then he will members of his family and friends working for the government, then he’ll try to add more assets (i.e. houses and cars) to his wealthy family, and then he will continue spending more on defense (rather than the commonwealth)and finally whatever leftovers are of the cake McCain is goning to give it to the rest of the common folks. Then at the end of the day when all of you realized that it happend to be more of the same…I’ll be LMAO!!!

Sep 26, 2008 - 11:03 pm 65. whalewoman:

The thing that turned me off about Obama even more was his inability to follow the rules. He broke off and began addressing McCain as “you” and ” you’re the one, etc.” He also addressed McCain as “John” and talked over him a few times He just couldn’t stop himself. The rules were clearly stated at the beginning, no addressing each other directly. So disrespectful! McCain pretty much never looked at him. Obama kept talking to the side of McCain’s face! That was really funny!

McCain got a little lit up and was gesturing too much, but kept it in check pretty well. I think McCain smacked Obama good and looked like an honest maverick, not a conservative, who may change some things for the good and others we may not like. I can’t vote for someone who doesn’t love this country. We haven’t worked this hard and come this far to turn it over to Marxists!

Sep 26, 2008 - 11:10 pm 66. 6is9:

Obama is clearly the superior candidate. This will be the eighth time I’ve voted for a president. Obama is the finest candidate – by far – of any who’ve run for the office in those 28 years. Obama speaks with wisdom and carries himself with dignity. He proposes that America and Americans do the same.

Sep 26, 2008 - 11:15 pm 67. Jonathan Cutrell:

McCain clearly wiped the floor with Obama for the most part.

I will say that some of the responses Obama came up with were “good,” but only for aesthetic purposes.

McCain’s breadth of knowledge on the subject of foreign policy far exceeds Barack’s. McCain’s breadth of knowledge when it comes to anything to do with military affairs also far exceeds Obama’s.

His identification with the American people and his patriotism are quite obviously much stronger than Obama’s.

While many people outside this nation have a view of America that has been skewed by media or their religious backgrounds (some are anti-Christian, and we are, as a nation, involuntarily identified as Christians), America is STILL the greatest country on this planet. Barack is not proud to be an American. He seemingly wants to recreate America as a completely different, marxist or socialist nation that provides everything for the lazy and takes away from the inventive. Rewards the freeloaders and punishes the American dream.

He knows how to play to people’s emotions.

95% will receive tax breaks! Whoopee!

And everyone gets healthcare, even the lazy neighbor you have who doesn’t care enough to move his trash out of your way in the mornings and pays his bills with his welfare (already taking your tax dollars).

Where do you think this money will come from? Forget the nation coming out of debt.

Oh, and by the way… Your bosses and entrepreneurs will be funding this living hell that we call the Obama policy… that is, until they go bankrupt and you lose your job.

Enjoy that.

Sep 26, 2008 - 11:20 pm 68. dave:

2 Samuel 1:27  “How are the mighty fallen”. He couldn’t hold his own in a debate with an old man. He’s SCARY! I have been around a while. If this nut gets elected we are in big trouble. I’ve seen Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush, Clinton, and Bush. This guy is scary when compared to these. He has no experience. ZERO! Remember Carter? Oh, I forgot, most of you “cell-phoners” were not alive then. I can’t blame you though, you have never gotten an education in history. The schools you went to made you this stupid. I studied Civics and Government in the ninth grade. We learned the difference in Socialism and a Constitutional Republic with democratic principles. Go and learn what that meaneth!

Sep 26, 2008 - 11:23 pm 69. Guy:

They have Kissinger on tape agreeing with Obama that the President should meet with other leaders unconditionally , he can come out with a statement now, but they have him on video a week ago disagreeing with McCain. Obama won this debate, obviously Jennifer Rubin has a right wing bias, but look at the polls, Obama is coming out on top as the winner of this debate.

Sep 26, 2008 - 11:28 pm 70. pauline:

As always,John McCain is still fighting the Vietnam war that he didn’t get to finish. We need a president that we can be proud of. Someone that can lead us with respect,speak to the world intelligently and able to handle our economy, not attack everybody. Our future can not be based on old presidents. Barack did a great job!

Sep 26, 2008 - 11:29 pm 71. colby:

Um Jennifer, Tom Yepsen is the most respected reporter in Iowa? Ouch, thats a slam. Nobody outside of Des Moines knows who Tom Yepsen is.

Sep 26, 2008 - 11:30 pm 72. troubled:

I believe only the undecided changed their minds today however, it is hard for me to believe there are not many of them. Personally, I think the debates in term of content were essentially a tie. One of the reasons the conversation was about the Iraq war. I personally believe we need to get out of Iraq. We are not winning the war and General Patreus said this in an interview that to use the term “victory” will never be used to define the Iraq war. I thought McCain shoot from the hip and I personally would like a president that would give deep thought prior to decisions at least when making grave decisions such as war. Anger, stubbornness, narrow minded thinking, are not ideal traits for a president. I am willing to give Obama a chance to get it right. He could never be as bad as Bush. However, it appears with McCain erratic behavior and his lack of judgment these are observations based on the methods used to conduct his campaign; this definitely gives me pause. If he can not carry out an organized well thought out campaign what will he do for our country? McCain is willing to lie and stick to it without apology and I can not believe this “Maverick” as he would like to be labeled will give the American people any explanation for any of his choices in running this country because he will not believe he has to give explanation to the American people. Does this not scare the living daylights out of some of you!!!

Sep 26, 2008 - 11:34 pm 73. jo jo half:

I thought McCain was extremely annoying, filibustering with blurbs about Eisenhower, Reagan several times, and Nixon…..gee John, great history lesson, but the future is what we care about old man. Obviously this man is sarcastic, and thinks he wins by trying to over talk his opponent, spewing out names and his “accomplishments”, which I don’t believe, because he plays very fast and loose with the truth. He tried to call Obama a liar over a Henry Kissenger quote, fact checkers have confirmed that Mr. Kissinger did in fact agree to talks with the Iranians without preconditions, but did not say presidents should sit face to face, lower level negotiations should precede and formal talks. He said it this on Thursday, so old McCain, spoke too soon. He tried his best to make Obama look inexperienced, but how can he dare talk about experience, when he has that soccer mom as his VP pick. She can’t debate or answer a question intelligently and succintly. The VP debate should be grand. Tonight, Obama looked presidential, cool under pressure, but did not back down when McCain tried his best to slur Obama, or miscatagorize things Obama has said, or how he voted in the Senate. McCain has to be called on the carpet for this. We don’t need another liar in the White House. Eight years of lies, secrecy and ineptitude is ENOUGH.

Sep 26, 2008 - 11:41 pm 74. troubled:

Just for the record, I am voting for Obama and I thought it was essentially a tie because everyone knows the opinions of these candidates on foreign policy and if you are a liberal as you Conservatives want to put it. McCain is scary for many reasons and I would hope that the majority of the folks are smarter than you GOP hackers. You all have been branded as liars, ignorant and living in a land of fantasy. We know most of you on this .com will be voting for McCain.

Sep 26, 2008 - 11:41 pm 75. RAP:

I didn’t watch much of the debate. The football game was a lot better but the parts I did watch showed both canidates in full pander mode. this country is in real trouble.

Sep 26, 2008 - 11:44 pm 76. jo jo half:

chicago:

Dan, LOL! Obama looked very immature playing the “me too!” game. McCain has had that bracelet for months and has been talking about the bracelet many times…Obama thought he needed a bracelet too!

You missed the point, McCain said the mother of the dead soldier begged him to not let her son’s death be in vain (in other words, stay in Iraq indefinitely until you have WON). Barack Obama only pointed out the bracelet to show another mother had an opposing viewpoing, to not let another parent go through what she was going through……anybody out there lose a son or brother or husband in the war? I don’t think I would be ecstatic about it and playing a big supporter of a big mistake.

Sep 26, 2008 - 11:47 pm 77. Mosean:

Who won this debate? What debate? Besides a few sparring comments in passing, the moderator failed to hold these candidates to a cohesive debate on the issues.

A generic questions about finance lead both Obama and McCain into their platform speeches. The debates are supposed to about holding the politicians feet to the fire, not about letting them go on about canned responses and attacks. I say that WE the AMERICAN PEOPLE LOST this first debate.

Sep 26, 2008 - 11:55 pm 78. trangbang68:

Carlos,You ought to get some rest from that three day meth run before you try stringing sentences together.
6is9- Let me see ,in those 7 elections you voted for Carter, Mondale, Dukakis, Clinton, Clinton, Gore and Kerry. Obama may be the best of that motley crew, but so what.

Sep 26, 2008 - 11:56 pm 79. frank capp:

Ali Barky had a prettier bracelet, if he could have remembered the soldier’s name it was for, still it was prettier….but unfortunately, did you notice that with his scowls, Ali Barky had a five o’clock shadow?

Sep 27, 2008 - 12:01 am 80. Carlos:

To JMS2008:
You mean an old guy who was to told what to say by the rest of the GOP?
Remember John McCain does not represent you, he represents the GOP?
Experience?
What has McCain done whit his so called experience???
The question here isn’t about having experience but how that experience is gonna be used???
Look at Bush he had experience, right. did he (Bush) use his experience for the sake of the American people? I don’t think so, check his approval rate.
Obama may have not done a great job due to his lack of experience or pherhaps because he was naive he can fix that, this guy is youg and smart. However, McCain has lied to everyone, has approved 90% of Bush’s proposals and well everyone painfuly already knows the results of these approvals, he is old, rich enough and on his way out…and he can’t fix that.

Sep 27, 2008 - 12:02 am 81. Kathy LeBaron:

THIS IS THE MOST FULL OF YOU KNOW WHAT WEB SITE!!!!! WHEN MCCAIN WAS ASKED QUESTIONS ALL HE COULD TALK ABOUT WAS THE SURGE. WHAT ABOUT OUR STANDING IN THIS WORLD. WE ARE PART OF THE WORLD NOW!!!! GET REAL PEOPLE IT IS NOT A WHITE ONLY WORLD AND WE CAN NOT CONTINUE TO ISOLATE OURSELVES AND THREATEN OTHER NATIONS!! MCCAIN IS DEAD WRONG AND FROM THE PAST! OBAMA WAS MORE INTELLEGENT AND PRESIDENTAL AND WON HANDS DOWN!! STOP PUTTING YOUR HEADS IN THE SAND AND LOOK AT THE POLL NUMBERS.

Sep 27, 2008 - 12:07 am 82. trangbang68:

Carlos, why do you think they call it dope? You sage you!

Sep 27, 2008 - 12:08 am 83. jo jo half:

Bottom line is this folks…..Republicans in Power for 8 years, and in Congress for 6 of those eight years…..

1. Iraq war started because of “bad intelligence”, but we still stayed and infuriated the islamic people in the region to become “insurgents”, a term we hadn’t heard of before the war. Never found weapons of mass distraction.
War has cost upwards of $600,000,000,000 money borrowed from China,

2. Katrina – worst emergency disaster in American Histroy, 1000 lives lost due to poor and inadequate response from Federal Goverment (FEMA) who Bush congratulated publicly (Great Job Brownie)

3. Torture allowed under this Administration, repealing the Bill of Rights, wiretapping, no warrants, government can do whatever it wants because of the “Patriot Act”, Americans no longer free under the guise of “protection”.

4. Financial meltdown, government required to “bail out” failed banking and lending institutions resulting in corporate socialism, something the Republicans always accused Democrats as wanting. Deregulation allowed to run rampant during this Administration, no oversight, no accountability, corporate bigwigs robbing thier companies, banks giving out risky loans (sub prime), which eventually lead to the demise of the housing market.

5. Outing of a CIA agent by Vice President of the United States, no action taken against him. Claims executive privilege when asked to testify. His secretary takes the rap, and should receive prison sentence, but Bush pardons him. End result: American security compromised and years of training and undercover identity exposed. Bush promised heads would roll if it were someone from his administration, turned out to be Cheney, who let Scooter Libby take the rap, end result: no punitive action taken.

6. Tax breaks for millionairs and above, rich corporations, oil companies. Haliburton who is Cheney’s former employer wins million dollar no bid contracts to rebuild Iraq. They “lose” thirteen billion dollars somewhere, never accounted for.

7. Lost sight of Bin Laden, the man responsible for 9/11 attacks, Bush declares he is not interested in him anymore. He is still alive and out in Pakistan or Afghanistan.

8. Nine Eleven – worst terrorist attack on US soil ever. Bush was briefed on the possibility of it occurring in August 2001, but was on vacation in Crawford, and didn’t really want to stop playing golf to see what the report had to say. When we were attacked, sat in a kindergarten class for 12 minutes after he was informed, did not excuse himself, just sat there reading “my pet goat”.

ALL THIS OCCURRED UNDER REPUBLICAN WATCH, MCCAIN IS A REPUBLICAN AND HAS VOTED WITH BUSH 90% OF THE TIME…..DO THEY DESERVE ANOTHER 4 YEARS? IS IT THAT HARD TO ANSWER?

Sep 27, 2008 - 12:11 am 84. USAFPJ:

I am tired of McCain contiually babbling on, a senile people tend to do, about “victory” in Iraq. Am I the only one who saw Gen. Patreus’ interview with BBC news? The one where the good Gen. himself said the following: “I don’t know if I would ever use the word ‘victory’ in relation to Iraq.” If Obama had mentioned that all points would be Obamas. How did everyone in the campaign miss that? Instead we got to hear the talking corpse tell his POW story – yet again (enough already). Barak Obama should be our next president and I can’t wait to see Biden destroy that back water hick, idiot next Thursday. Because no, sorry, forgien policy experience doesn’t come because Russian leader use Alaskan airspace to com to America – MORON!!

Sep 27, 2008 - 12:15 am 85. Ody:

What is all this about bracelets.You guys think its hi speed to wear such.Hey, It is currently not about military prowess but about sound international policies.Its true that US perception from the rest of the world has eroded so much.I am from such one country and I hope that you guys could see.The days of bullying countries is over and you better get over it. Take care of domestics before you start poking your nose in everybody,s business.

Sep 27, 2008 - 12:19 am 86. Tcobb:

Damn–I wonder how many of the IP addresses of the commenters here can be traced back to Obama’s campaign headquarters? It would be interesting to find out.

Sep 27, 2008 - 12:31 am 87. Greg:

Everyone keeps bringing up the point how McCain has more experience, that it shows, that Obama has less, etc, etc. He may have more experience, but more experience does not always equal a better person for the job. In the business world there are many examples where, say, a “more experienced” CEO was replaced by a relative new comer (or just someone with “less” experience – on paper) who was able to take the company to new heights, or turn it around – fixing the company where the old, “more experienced” CEO, had failed. I’m not saying that this is necessarily the case in the campaign, but it could be, and it highlights the failed logic of McCain supporters incessantly touting his greater experience and using that as practically the sole reason he is a superior candidate. (Bias note: a don’t really like either candidate).

Sep 27, 2008 - 12:45 am 88. Snorri Godhi:

The BBC calls it for McCain on points. That settles it, I guess, at least until the polls come in.

Sep 27, 2008 - 12:49 am 89. Portland:

I am amazed at the number of responses in favor of McCain. From my own experience in watching the debate, I saw a man who would not directly answer the questions, but who add “I have experience with that. I can do that.” but wouldn’t go into HOW, or what exactly that experience was. I don’t buy the cake that’s labeled “best” without looking at the ingredients. Half of the time I had to stop and ask what he was talking about now because he trailed away from the subject time and time again.

Obama stuck to the topics in debate and rebutted what McCain brought up. ”

You are right.” isn’t necessarily a defeating statement as the press is trying to make it out to be. How many “buts” followed those comments. THIS is a strategy in debating. But people of America are stopping at the opening of the argument. But again, the attention span of most people is three seconds.

As far as the economy is concerned, Obama spoke to me personally. Meaning, he showed me how he could change my life today. McCain showed me how the CEO’s can add another wad to their pile. He also showed me how cutting government spending can affect the lives and jobs of thousands of people that will only increase the cycle we’re already in.

As far as foreign policy or at least Iraq is concerned… Bring our troops home. After being sent back time and time again, you can’t expect them to have that much more to give. What we should have learned about Vietnam is to get out of a war that we should have never been a part of. Why do we keep falling into the same cycles of history repeating itself.

As Einstein defined, “Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.”

McCain is in the past, lives in the past and will remain in the past. How many times did he comment on “being older and more experienced”? Because as stated many times before I will here… we need more of the same, right? Because what has happened and occurred in the past is working for us now.

Obama’s eyes are focused on the future. Tomorrow and ten years from now.

What this world needs is change. The entire world is looking at this election and watching where we go from here. Maybe it’s time to look in the mirror and see what it is that they all see. It’s time to be honest with who we are and where we’re headed. It’s finally time to be brave enough to take a step forward.

Voting McCain is Insane…

Thank God and everything that is good in the world for Our Next President Barack Obama!

Sep 27, 2008 - 12:55 am 90. William of Orange:

Carlos writes:

“To all McCain supporters that do not fit in his pretty exclusive social circle, in other words middle-to-low class american workers:
I will be laughing at ya’ll when senator McCain won’t even remember you all..”

Hey, you sound pretty bitter, ese considering Juan was in the immigrants’ corner a while back. A lot of Americans didn’t like it, but he did stick up those who had been coming into this country under less-than-legal circumstances. And I’ll bet not a lot of them were toting a ton of dough, homes.

Sep 27, 2008 - 1:10 am 91. Dellabonte:

If McCain was so much better, more experienced, and presidential than why not look Obama in the face?

Sep 27, 2008 - 1:11 am 92. USAF Captain:

By tomorrow, the MSM pundits will have digested all of this and come up with the reasons why the Blessed One won tonight. It will be broadcast far and wide throughout this great land and will be absorbed by the proles, the polls will be skewed, and it will turn into a stunning victory for The Most Merciful One.

“I weep for your generation!”
— The Maître d’ in Ferris Beuller’s Day Off

Sep 27, 2008 - 1:18 am 93. OldUSOGal:

I think what bothered me the most about tonight’s debate was that John McCain could not make and maintain eye contact with Barack Obama. That bothers me because it speaks volumes about a person’s character, confidence and truthfulness.

Sep 27, 2008 - 1:32 am 94. Jeff:

Has anyone noticed that McCain NEVER once looked directly into Obama’s direction throughout the whole entire debate? McCain said that he will stare Putin directly into his eyes when confronting him but will not look directly at Obama. Isn’t the debate a confrontation of two parties? Could McCain be scared of Obama? Could McCain be nervous about confronting Obama? That is the kind of stance that a Private would take when confronted by his Sergeant directly. He would not dare to stare directly at his Sergeant. Obama was looking directly at McCain on most instances tonight.

It seems that Obama won the debate tonight. He was clear on most of his plan of actions not just by mentioning them but by mentioning each plan and each action in numerical order. All of his plans on foreign affairs, national security, energy, and domestic economic issues were precise and very well thought out. McCain, on the other hand, was not as organized and his talking points seem to be all over the place. On most subjects, he would be talking about his point and then, out of nowhere, he would draw something up from the past that had little relevance to the topic at hand. He was bringing up his own past quite a bit.
or should we look forward
This debate is clear, McCain keeps looking back and drawing things up from his past that has little relevance to this current situation or era, but he continues to try to sell this notion that his past will solve THIS current time’s overall crisis. Then you have Obama, who has a clear set of plans, who even bothers to name each plan and each action in numerical order for what he wants to accomplish for America’s future. Should America look to its past or should we look forward to solve 21st century crisis?

Sep 27, 2008 - 1:49 am 95. ambisinistral:

I never thought I would see the Ron Paul folks get topped…

Sep 27, 2008 - 1:55 am 96. lee:

For democrats, the economy can be split into a narrative of two extreme binary oppositions, where you’re either a wretched waitress working for minimum wage or a CEO tycoon who samples caviar all day. The barrier between the “middle class” and “big business” or “rich” cannot be breached, and they each separately exist in a vaccum.

The CEOs might be rolling in dough, but the middle class flexes the muscle. They have to assemble / package products in factories, deliver them to stores by trucks, etc. What’s gonna happen to their jobs if you raise taxes on these companies, especially in this economy? How about layoffs and reduced pay to cope with cost? They’re already shipping jobs overseas because it’s COST EFFECTIVE over there. I worked for a shipping rod company who had a base in China, where cost of operation is much lower than in America.

Lower taxes for any business is a no brainer in a bad economy, but that very thought is galling for democrats. The middle class WORKS for big business, they run the show. If he does raise tax on businesses, who figures to get hurt more?

Sep 27, 2008 - 1:57 am 97. Elizabeth:

“Lower taxes for any business is a no brainer in a bad economy, but that very thought is galling for democrats. The middle class WORKS for big business, they run the show. If he does raise tax on businesses, who figures to get hurt more?”
—————

I couldn’t agree more, but one thing I’ve come to realize in this election is that the Democrats don’t mean the workers/taxpayers when they talk about “the middle class,” they mean those who are on welfare. Someone who works, pays their own mortgage, pays taxes, and has a savings account is “rich.”

Sep 27, 2008 - 2:39 am 98. casey:

I watched the debate twice. Obama is the only choice. McCain stumbled around alot and didn’t answer any of the questions thoughtfully. All I heard from him was I love Vetrens over and over. Wheres the love for the rest of us. John McCain loves America, but he hates half of us living in it. Obama cares about the working man and woman who rolls his or her shirt sleeves up everyday and goes off to work. He is the best hope for cleaning up 8 years of Republican fecal matter thats left America stinking.

Sep 27, 2008 - 2:41 am 99. Aylyffe:

What my husband and I both noticed is that while Obama, like so many political figures in general and Democrats in particular, excelled at general rhetoric last night, he was utterly unable to provide any sort of specifics for policy ideas when pressed. McCain not only was able, he was able to cite specific examples of similar actions he has already taken during his tenure in the Senate.
While my husband and I are new enough at paying attention to politics that we didn’t recognize most of the specific bills cited by both candidates, I had to point out to him that it was probably easy for Obama to point out mistakes McCain has made – the man’s been in the government for 26 years! Of course he’ll have made a mistake or two. Obama could simply have cherry-picked the couple of instances that support his allegations of McCain’s unsuitability and ignored the overall track record.

Sep 27, 2008 - 3:06 am 100. Jeff:

Look America, the bottom line is this —

We are in a $485 billion deficit. After the $700 billion Federal bailout of Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, and AIG; our national deficit will topple over $1 trillion. Who knows what other financial institutions will also be collapsing. There’s a very good chance that the credit card industry could be next. The point of the matter is that America will be in a $1 trillion deficit and is continuing to fight in the Iraq War, where their country currently has a $79 billion surplus from their oil sales. Does it make any sense at all that we are roughly spending $10 billion every month on this Iraq War without any future timetable being implemented, during the worst economic time of our history since The Great Depression of 1929?

Cost of the Iraq War — http://www.nationalpriorities.org/costofwar_home

The way things are looking; there is even a good chance that we will end up borrowing money from Iraq in the near future, the same country that we are helping to rebuild. Now that would be a very, very awkward position to be in but consider the facts below —

1) America – Over $1 trillion deficit after the Federal bailout of Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, and AIG. This is not counting other financial market collapse which may arise in the near future that could also require Federal assistance.
2) America – Spending $10 billion monthly on the Iraq War with no future timetable implemented in the near future.
3) America – The largest home mortgage foreclosures, high unemployment, and the worst financial market collapse since The Great Depression of 1929.
4) Iraq – Currently has $79 billion surplus on oil sales and counting.

This will be the FIRST time ever in history where a country, which is facing the worst economic deficit, is fighting to rebuild another country with a decent surplus.

Sep 27, 2008 - 3:06 am 101. davod:

“Did anyone else notice, and was bothered by the fact, that McCain never looked Obama in the eye, even when he was supposed to be responding to him?”

Look at the rules fool. They were supposed to address the moderator.

Sep 27, 2008 - 3:10 am 102. Paul:

As a recently retire Army Officer (April), I don’t know how you can subjectively watch this debate and even consider McCain?!

He disagreed with the military on its plans to conduct operations in Afghanistan. The military recommended using 6 brigades. He sided with Rumsfeld to use only CIA, Special Forces, and former Afghan Northern Alliance Fighters. Now, we’ve come close to losing Afghanistan and he wants a “surge” to compensate for the mismanagement. Pathetic!

He agreed with invading Iraq. Enough said…however, dig deeper on his judgement…

He disagreed with the prosecution of the invasion. Gen. Shinseky called for 240,000 troops at a minimum because the initial invasion would be just the start. The troops would be needed to secure vital areas and keep Sunni and Shia from going after each other. Rumsfeld was so worried about casualties (like in Afghanistan) that he he shut Shinseky up…Shinseky was forced to retire! If Mccain was a military supporter, he would never have let that happen!!

Do I think Obama scored some huge knock out blow tonight? No. But Mccain showed his disdain, anger, lack of understanding, and more importantly a severe lack of temperment that we need in a leader.

A “gut feeling”, and a “knee jerk” type of leader is not what we need. It hasn’t worked since 2001. Give somebody else a chance.

Sep 27, 2008 - 3:31 am 103. Deus:

This country is divided because lots of people are duped and are so nearsighted that they can’t see the truth. We will get what we deserve.

We’ve been lucky so far.

Sep 27, 2008 - 4:00 am 104. Sandy Salt:

The debate was whatever you wanted to see. Obama supporters got slick generalities and McCain supporters got a history lesson. The was nothing that would change hearts and minds. The fact that Obama thinks punishing business is the way to help the middle class is very telling of his economics policy. McCain didn’t fare any better because he could have jumped on the close every loophole, but let that one slide. As for foreign policy, Obama wants the world to love us, but the fact is they wont’ because we are the sole super-power in the world and no one likes it. Given time China will pull along side us and then people we again have a comparison of good verses evil, but until then we are just a bully that wants its way regardless of how much good we do. McCain’s history lesson is nice to know so we don’t repeat the mistakes of the past, but doesn’t help us decide who will lead us into the future because he provided little in the way of specifics other than win in Iraq (which I agree with). So the final outcome is a draw, whoopie-t-do!

Sep 27, 2008 - 4:14 am 105. SAF:

Obama talks about negotiation with our enemies. Personally I think war is a terrible thing people die and stuff like that. But you cannot negotiate with the other side if they want you dead. The only reason we won the cold war with Russia is that they love their kids more than they love killing us. This is not the case with Iran, North Korea and the host of terrorist groups allied against us.

We are now in an asymmetrical war which we are loosing. Why I say we are loosing is because for a few million bucks Osama Bin Laden was able to cost us trillions over the last few years. Some of the economic problems can be laid to the reduction of interest rates to 1% after 911. Certainly all the defense and home land security money we have paid out and continue to pay out are overheads that do not add to the gross national product in a meaningful way. (i.e. if you are on an assembly line and make a car that adds to GDP, if you check my laptop for explosives at the airport it doesn’t)

Negotiation with Iran and North Korea have been a flat out failure. And they have been because they are structurally doomed to failure. Even if Obama is a better negotiator he can’t win such an asymmetrically played game.

We need someone to lead the nation in a new era of asymmetrical warfare. I’m not sure it is McCain but I am sure it is not Obama.

Sep 27, 2008 - 4:15 am 106. Ed Wallis:

As far as “soundbites” from this debate go, I’d love to see an ad with a video as McCain said:

“I don’t need any on-the-job training. I’m ready to lead now.

Sep 27, 2008 - 4:25 am 107. Peter Gee:

Does anyone know where voters can send advice or comments to the RNC or whoever makes up McCains debate and issues team? because I was astounded that McCain did not vigorously rebut the following”

* “Al Quaeda is resurgent” ( Obama many times)

Riposte: Al Qaeda is hugely degraded compared to before and after 911. Over and over the Al Qaeda high command said Iraq was the central battlefield against the USA. Well, the US has almost wiped out Al Queda in Iraq and killed thousands of terrorists Osama Bin Laden sent there to murder Americans and Iraqis with acts of unspeakable barbarism. Iraq became a death trap for jihadi terrorists. And we have killed and captured them till they are a shadow. Al Qaeda is weakened and in hiding, but true, the Taliban are making some comback in Afghanistan. We need to deal with that and I .

If Sen. Obama has withdrawn all our Iraq troops, Iraq today would likely be under Bin Laden’s control and run by them, one step closer to dominating the middle east. Thousands of his terrorists would now be flocking out of Iraq in Afghanistan to defeat us there too. I reject that Al Quada is resurgent. They are on the ropes in Iraq, no thanks to polices of Senbator Obama, who opposed the surge.

* The Sub Prime crisis and trying to pin economic woe of the Republicans ( Obama many times)

Riposte: Everyone knows the heart of this crisis is the housing market and the sub prime loans market. There are other problems but the collapses of banks and insurers is basically all down to Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac and housing prices or foreclosures. Bankers do not like losing money. Nor do they like lending money to those who can’t pay it back. Bankers did not make this crisis, in fact the wrong sort of regulations did. Regulations that under a Democratic leadership in the 1990s basically forced banks to make “non discriminatory” loans to people without income, without security, with no prospect of payment. All in the name of politics to help some politicians get votes by spreading home ownership, even to those millions who would never have qualified under normal bank terms. Legislation and agencies threatened banks to loan to bad credit customers, under threat of penalty. And who was going to guarantee all these bad loans? That’s when politicians led by Democrats stepped in to inflate Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, to pump them full of hot money, and help them guarantee bad credit. Republicans tried to change this in 2003, seeing the warning signs. It failed in Congress. I sponsored a bi-partisan bill in 2005 to regulate Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae. The Democratic Party and Sentaor Obama, who has $125,000 worth of donations from Fannie and Frddie, killed that too.

It’s Senator Obama and his party, and some Republicans too, who have all the while benefited from Fannie and Freddie and who backed forcing banks to make bad loans on taxpayers money. I have a consistant record of seeing ahead and knowing the mess we would get into. I dont want US taxpayers to have to bail us out and I am not going to let Senator Obama and his party pin their blindness on my foresight”

Sep 27, 2008 - 4:33 am 108. LeighB:

I thought McCain was great in the debate and won most of the topics. Much is being made by Obama supporters about McCain not looking at him. I do not think it was a sign of disrespect or weakness, some people take notes when others are talking and that is what McCain seemed to be doing. Obama might have been more effective if he had looked at the audience and/or the camera, all I mosty saw was the side of his face as he was responding.

The debate was substantive and better than I thought it would be. The moderator also did a terrific job.

Sep 27, 2008 - 4:42 am 109. bill:

I hope on the next debate that McCain stops his misinformation campaign about Obama and just sticks to what HE plans to do with the economy and health care. After all misinformation is just a nice word for lying and no one like a liar!

Sep 27, 2008 - 4:52 am 110. Boris:

“Look at the rules fool. They were supposed to address the moderator.”

Somebody missed the first part of the debate. Lehrer tried to get them to talk to one another.

Sep 27, 2008 - 5:25 am 111. Boris:

All the polls I’ve seen so far show that Obama won the debate. For a debate on McCain’s strength, this is horrible news for the Republicans.

The key appears to have been temperament. McCain appeared irritated and unable/unwilling to address Obama directly. Obama appeared calm and knowledgeable.

Sep 27, 2008 - 5:34 am 112. cfbleachers:

As someone who doesn’t have a horse in this race, but cares very much about my country…I continue to be disappointed and disheartened that we have 300 million people and these are the best we can muster. A guy who is a fine speaker of rehearsed lines and has a smooth deliver, but wants big government and intrusive red tape…in essence, a social democracy.

The other is a guy who has a limited grasp on economic issues and an inability to articulate where the problems arose and how to fix them.

The two party system is flawed. Al Gore was a stiff, Quixotic, blowhard D student of life who took credit for things he didn’t fully comprehend, in a dreamworld of his own making. John Kerry was a D student of life who rose up the Democratic food chain by stepping on the backs of brave and heroic comrades in arms, and betrayed them in a faux Thurston Howell III stage voice. When they stood up to complain, the propaganda machine that is the tool for leftist deceit in this country, slandered those good men on his behalf and still do so to this day. “Swiftboating” became not a synonym for whistleblowing, but rather, for the crass political machinations that, ironically…are the hallmark of the acts of the very cowardly and treasonous media who invented that slander.

Trust fund liberals who “got mine, now I want yours” such as Ted Kennedy, Kerry/Heinz, John Edwards, and pander to the extremists on the left, who openly won’t defend this country…they slander IT here…and especially abroad at every opportunity and anyone they do the same to anyone who doesn’t fall in lockstep behind them. For them, Obama is their new prop.

He is a pretty package wrapped with a frilly bow around an empty box. He is articulate and at times, persuasive as a speaker, but his ideas are warmed over 60’s hippie bongfest ramblings. Most far leftists are utopian surrealists, stuck in a perpetual arrested adolescence. Obama appeals to them, because Obama relates to them. He is uncomfortable appealing to the center as he showed last night and, in a moment, in a following post, I will blow his entire night to smithereens on substance.

However, in this continuing charade of a two party system we are confined within, we have painted ourselves into a corner, with choices realistically limited to only people from these two failed institutions …the Republican party and the Democratic party, we no longer put up our best and our brightest. George W. Bush is not articulate or persuasive. He is also basically a D student of life. He fails at putting forward any proposals with skill, insight, and fails to instill confidence in any plan or course of action.

It is true that he is treated wholly unfairly by the propaganda arm of the opposing party, as is every Republican or non-leftist. But he has utterly failed to present a clear, convincing pathway forward and, at times, has tried to make his “image” better by pandering to the dangerous and destructive policies and pathways of the spendaholics across the aisle. This has met with disastrous results. He has given them gift after gift from our national credit card…and has been slapped across the face for his efforts every time.

The rallying cry against him has been the Iraq war, and the discussion about it has been puerile and overloaded with distortions and deceit by the propagandists and their parrots, who intentionally shed all heat and no light on the issue. But, George W. Bush has been a monumental failure at bringing any light to the issue himself. His reckless spending as a pandering tool which earned him not a single kudo from acros the aisle and his inability to articulate or persuade on any notion opposing the leftists…has left this country in grave peril of being taken over by them.

His failings are the Republican party failings on steroids. They are utterly unable to clarify distortions, unravel deceits, put straight facts out and articulate why the American public is being lied to intentionally day after day, week after week, month after month, year after year. They lack the courage of their convictions and pander to the leftists in order to get a crumb from the propaganda machine owned by the Democrats.

For a true centrist, the “mandatory” pandering to the fringe elements from both sides in this country has destroyed both parties. The game of “gotcha” where “Party political wins” are more important than proper pathways for the good of the country…are a constant, inexorable erosion of the public good, rather than an occasional circus sideshow. It makes the discussion of core issues nearly impossible to be held on an intellectually honest and produtive level. Frankly, much of the time is spent debating frivolous side issues with cocktail party depth and bar stool logic.

This pretty much sums up last night. Obama lost the debate on substance. Let there be no doubt about it. His childlike “fans” can whimper all they want, but Obama would be skewered (and I will, in a moment) on virtually every issue of substance.

But McCain didn’t “win”. His failings and flaws last night were glaring. He failed to articulate and persuade. He failed to get to the heart of key issues. He rambled and repeated themes, at times he grabbed the reins… and then fell off the horse. He failed to cash in on opportunity after opportunity to nail Obama to the wall on issues of substance. Our elections have devolved into form/style over substance…then spin from the propaganda machine and the necessary counter-machine. So much spin and so little substance…one needs a dramamine to simply watch any longer.

And, the Vice-Presidential debates…one anticipates…will be like watching Lucy Ricardo vs. Fred Mertz….gaffes with a laugh track. If this wasn’t so sad, it would be hysterically funny. This is what we have become, Sitcom Politics. I’m just getting tired of the reruns.

Sep 27, 2008 - 5:39 am 113. unbiased:

Listen I don’t know which debate half of you were watching but Obama WON this one. Why he won?…first of all it was McCain who was angry and flustered looking like a dictator. America does not want this person at the helm who will rush into many wars that will further sink the economy. secondly I like when Obama hammered him on foreign policy saying he was wrong on 3 points regarding Iraq. This was supposed to be McCain’s area and Obama held his own and surpassed expectations and in the same breath made McCain look like an idiot “the war didn’t start in 2007″ that was priceless.
3rdly Obama pointeed out that yes the economy is bad but mcCain voted with Bush’s budget 90-percent of the time…that’s hard to swallow.
The only thing I’ll criticize Obama for is he should have hammered home to americans that prolonging an unncessary war will drain the countries resources and worsen our economy. yes we need to fight abroad but at what cost. In the end the very country we strive to protect will be run-down and very poor. He could sinked that point more.
But all in all I was very proud of Barack’s poise, calm manner, he should just trty not interrupt his opponents too often.

Sep 27, 2008 - 5:42 am 114. Lisa:

McCain won hands down.

Obama lied several times about his own record/actions and McCain’s.

McCain was clearly much more knowledgeable than Obama.

Obama stuttered and became angry.

Obama asked his wife when it was over how did we do… McCain didn’t have to.

Sep 27, 2008 - 5:45 am 115. SAF:

Boris: You obviously don’t look at Drudge; http://www.drudgereport.com/ McCain 67 Obama 31

And as far as lies are concerned Henry Kissinger refuted Obama’s assertions (http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2008/09/26/obama-the-kissinger-blunder/#comment-99592) within minutes of him having made them.

Its fine if you like Obama and want to vote for him. I don’t buy his purity or qualifications.

Sep 27, 2008 - 5:52 am 116. Sandy Salt:

cf,
well said, it is too late this time to form a viable third party, but starting with the 2010 elections we sure can. We need to rid Washington of the career politicians and put people in there that won’t make it the last job they ever hold. We need people that have to live with their dumb decisions and are connected to the people they represent. You are 100% correct that both parties are completely worthless when it comes to leading this country. We need to return the government to the people. We also need to cut way back on what the Federal government is involved in. Issues need to be left to the states and the states need to find a way to pay for them. Our government should be about collective defense and foreign relations, but it should not be about health care, abortion, gay marriage, corporate bailouts, or funding a bunch of state specific projects. Yes, we should fund roads, but they should be interstates and not bridges to nowhere, ever. You want real change then support the new up and coming reformer party where the candidates sign a contract on the party plank for term limits, kicking lobbyists out of Washington and limited government to include spending. The party for the people by the people because it will be a solely grassroots organization to take on the big fat corrupt career politicians that now inhabit DC.

Sep 27, 2008 - 5:55 am 117. chicago:

damn, Obama trolls are working over time spinning the debate. LOL!

the facts remaind – Obama doesn’ have a clue on Foreign Policy and he never will.

trolls and the liberal media spinning the debate as McCain looked angry, blah, blah, blah. that pales in comparison to the truth that Obama looked and sounded clueless.

Sep 27, 2008 - 5:56 am 118. The Mac is back at mariosechi.net:

[...] Pezzo consigliato da leggere: Jennifer Rubin su Pajamas Media. [...]

Sep 27, 2008 - 5:58 am 119. Sandy Salt:

And another thing. Iraqi Foreign Minister Hoshyar Zebari said a precipitous withdrawal could have consequences for the country and the region that everyone would regret afterward. Then why doesn’t he convince his government to start footing the bill for our presence in his country if he is worried that our current economic situation may lead to an early withdrawal of US troop. They could fund the troops for 8 months on their budget surplus, plus it would greatly encourage them to pull their heads out of their collective butts and fix their country. We should only pledge to stay as long as they are willing to fund our troops. We could work out a payment plan for additional time on the ground.

Sep 27, 2008 - 6:01 am 120. Ed Wallis:

HEY, “unbiased” 5:42am,

you forgot your last sentence: ‘I’m Barack Obama, and I approved this message’.”

I’m only on my 2nd cup of coffee, but I just “*had*” to remark on your post, which factually ignores McCain’s overpowering knowledge of and insight into national security and intternational relations – putting Zerobama and his “well-rehearsed-peashooter-remarks” in the shameful shadows of a true leader.

Give my regards to Axelrod when you go to pick up your astroturfer paycheck.

Sep 27, 2008 - 6:05 am 121. Eric:

Chicago you forgot the sound bite when Obama told McCain you were wrong on the Iraq war, wrong on WMD, wrong, wrong, wrong. Obama nailed him on that. This deabte was a tie, and a tie favors Obama.

Sep 27, 2008 - 6:07 am 122. RustyG:

For someone in the bleachers you sure hit it out of the park! I’ll give you an amen there cfbleachers.

Bush has had the biggest bully pulpit in the world and he has failed miserably at telling his country and the world his vision and direction and the democrats lack thereof.

When McCain refused to elaborate on the root causes of the financial crisis early in the debate I was cringing. Tell us why John.

After his early deer in the headlights look, McCain handed it to Barry pretty decisively I thought. To use a basketball analogy, Barry can dribble with the best of them. Behind the back, through his legs, crossover, real smooth. McCain has to go slow with his head down. If you make them stand still on the court and just shoot, McCain can hit nothing but net from anywhere on the court. Obama couldn’t throw it in the ocean if he was standing on the beach.

Sep 27, 2008 - 6:15 am 123. RE:

McCain won.

He clearly has a better grasp on the reality and difficulties of the world.

Sep 27, 2008 - 6:20 am 124. Therese:

John McCain won this debate. Barack Obama was able to “talk” and appear in command of the information, but here is where John McCain beat him:

1. McCain cited many first-hand experiences that he had in dealing with leaders of other countries and fighting for legislation. The most stirring comment he made to me was – “When I looked in Putin’s eyes, I saw three letters K-G-B.”

2. McCain came across as his own person. Obama failed to make McCain look like a Bush third term. Everyone that is talking about the debate is talking about John McCain and not even associating him with Bush.

3. McCain came across as sincere. Mentioning the bracelet was very touching. Also at the end of the debate when he talked about how he worked to help heal wounds with North Vietnam, it showed a lot of personal emotion. Obama never showed any real personal human concern for anything. Even when he mentioned his father, it didn’t turn into a touching moment.

4. McCain appeared stable, strong and in command. Moreover, he didn’t come across as an old fart. Obama and the media have tried to paint him as erratic and very old. Last night what we saw was a man who has a lot of experience, is passionate about his country and stable.

Obama held his own, but I see it as someone who studied for an exam and was able to pass the test. However, we need a President who can do more than study information, but actually lead. We also deserve a President who has deep experience because the country and world situation is very complicated and a misstep will cost people their livelihoods and lives. Obama does not have this depth and it showed last night.

Sep 27, 2008 - 6:24 am 125. JustPassingThrough:

First of all, there are NO polls that reflect any movement driven by the debate. That takes days. Secondly, this election, just as all presidential elections, comes down to which way undecided voters jump in the last few weeks in a handful of states.

What is mistakenly being called polling is the results of asking pre-assembled focus groups what they thought, and putting up an online page asking in effect 3 questions – Obama won, McCain won, or tie.

The reactions of the pre-assembled focus groups are only as valid as the veracity of those members claims that they are not party line voters and are actually undecided going in. Members who were already committed to one or the other candidate are just talking heads.

The online 3 question formats are useless. The people pushing the buttons on their computers are not the voters either candidate needs to put himself over the top in the key, swing states.

Good polling that reflects this past week will only start to bubble up this weekend and at first will only reflect the events in DC before the debate. It will be Monday or Tuesday before trends are really taking into account debate reactions.

My feel is that McCain will have won the week. Not by a lot, but he won the leadership contrast. He also won the debate, though again, not by a lot. Taken together , he’ll pick away at Obama’s lead in open polls, and pull a little further ahead in the internal polling of the two campaigns.

Sep 27, 2008 - 6:25 am 126. cfbleachers:

Obama lost on substance…HUGE…last night.

First, his positions on Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran, North Korea, Venezuela…even Spain…are irrational, inconsistent and oxymoronic (emphasis on the moronic).

A) It appears that Sen. Obama wishes to take great credit for being AGAINST the Iraq war from the beginning…however, he is in FAVOR of expanding the theater in Afghanistan. He APPEARS to be saying that taking the fight to Afghanistan was a legitimate endeavor and he favors expanding upon the fight there, even suggesting that we go into Pakistan and root out the tribal support of Bin Laden.

At the same time, he complains that we lost over 4,000 brave men and women, we spend so many billions per month, and we have no exit strategy in Iraq.

And…as a kicker…he suggests that Iraq was not tied to 9-11, there were no weapons of mass destruction found, and Al Qaeda is stronger now, and was never present in Iraq…Iraq presented no danger to our interests.

On just THIS issue, outlined above…Obama handed McCain a treasure trove of opportunities. McCain virtually whiffed them all. McCain focused on Obama’s Chicken Little routine on the surge, and on how well Petraeus has led the efforts. Scored points, especially “talking points”…but wholly missed the bigger picture.

Here is the response I was thinking immediately upon hearing Sen. Obama on each point:

1) Obama can’t decide how many brigades would be necessary in a theater in Afghanistan, until we decide that is where we want to engage. Does he seriously believe that the insurgents who were shipped into Iraq would have stayed out of Afghanistan?

In terms of a theater of operations, is the desert an easier place to defend or is the rugged terrain and secret tunnels of Afghanistan easier?

Would invading Northeast Pakistan widen the conflict or narrow it? Maybe Charles Gibson can ask Sen. Obama (or Sen. Biden) about the “Obama Doctrine” on such an invasion.

It seems that Sen. Obama’s entire substantive argument against the war in Iraq stems from a belief that Afghanistan (and Northeast Pakistan!) was a better theater and Saddam was completely a non-threat. BOTH items are completely, utterly wholly…wrong. And Sen. Obama’s opposition to the Iraq theater is a sham.

Sen. Obama was given the same (and possibly less) intelligence reporting as everyone else. AT THE TIME…the world believed Saddam had weapons of mass destruction. Only a fool or an imbecile would suggest otherwise. Clinton, Gore, Albright, Sandy Berger, William Cohen…ALL believed that Saddam was the gravest risk to the world, was a risk to PASS OFF WEAPONS TO TERRORISTS AND EXPORT GLOBAL TERRORISM.

The WORLD had a succession of sanctions against Saddam for failing to comply with inspections, Saddam was giving off every impression that he intended to maintain and GROW his arsenal. NOBODY…and I mean NOBODY…believed that Saddam was not a grave risk to American interests. Clinton/Gore administration believed he was the single most potent risk to global security and voted in regime change.

Sen. Obama last night articulated his opposition to Iraq as a MORAL issue…then proceeded to suggest that Afghanistan and PAKISTAN were better theaters.

Had we chosen Afghanistan (and Pakistan) as our theater, we would have lost MORE men and spent more money fighting the imported insurgents there and Saddam would have been left scot free to build upon an arsenal, PROBABLY building a nuclear capability (as Iran and North Korea did) which he intended all along, and most likely passing off assistance, training and weapons to Al Qaeda splinter groups and OTHER harbored terrorist organizations…which he had been allowing and encouraging ALL ALONG.

The seminal questions for Sen. Obama…are…1) what did you know from an intelligence perspective that the WORLD did not…at the time everyone was being briefed? The British, the French, the Israeli’s, the whole of the world believed that Saddam was a grave threat. Including….ESPECIALLY…the democratic party of the Clinton administration. What intelligence did you possess that suggested otherwise?

If none, then your opposition to the removal of that threat is based upon what? You didn’t wish to spend lives and treasure to eliminate that threat, but you would invade Northeast Pakistan in a game of hide n’ seek with Bin Laden, fighting him on his home turf in a brutal terrain? AND…involve a country that was willing to serve as our ally…and turn them into enemies?

How many lives and how much treasure would be lost in that escapade? Would losing 25,000 lives and spending twice as much money have been a “wiser” decision? A more “moral” one?

The canard that Saddam was not “tied” to 9-11 does not carry the day. Saddam was a THREAT after 9-11…AND BEFORE. Anyone, at that moment in time…who was desirous of enhancing state sponsored terrorism and exporting around the globe was…an enemy of global security.

NOBODY…and I mean NOBODY…knew what Saddam had as an arsenal. And the liars on the left and masters of deceit in their propaganda machine gloss over the fact that North Korea and Iran built nuclear arsenals while the Democrats slept. Saddam with a desire for a nuclear arsenal and with biological and chemical capacities was a clear and present danger. The DEMOCRATS said so. They were right.

The war on state sponsored terror didn’t have ONE place. Obama said that Al Qaeda is “stronger” now. This is a lie. They are not.

Obama said that Al Qaeda is NOW operating in 60 countries. They ALWAYS were operating in numerous countries. Are we to believe the ONE country they would have had no inroads was Iraq? That’s a joke.

We drew them to the desert and beat them like a red-headed stepchild. We chose the theater, not allowing them to regroup in a safe haven of state sponsored exportation of terror. We kept them on the run, we beat back the imported insurgencies. We narrowed the risk and maximized the terrain.

Obama’s two central points are oxymoronic. First, his opposition to the war was based upon a faulty premise (and continued on a lie). Saddam was a threat…EVERYONE agreed, the whole world agreed.

Secondly, Afghanistan (and Northeast Pakistan) as a theater would have been MORE expensive in lives and treasure, not less….if we prosecuted the war appropriately there. We would have met the insurgents on their home turf…an idiotic idea, given the advantage they would have in the terrain…and the support they receive from the local head tribesmen.

Instead, we have THREE governments in the region who work with us. Iraq, Pakistan and Afghanistan. Had we done it the Obama way…Saddam would have been free to assist efforts against us, Pakistan would have rallied against us and impeded our efforts and we would have been bogged down there for decades.

Moreover, the whole of this argument is based upon the premise that Obama would have not succumbed to the pressure from the left…because they were AGAINST going into Afghanistan in the first place! They said it would be a quagmire and another Viet Nam.

The left never met a military defense operation that they didn’t bash. Obama would have had the luxury of 20/20 hindsight…and he would, without question…have jumped on the propaganda machine’s daily reportage of “grim milestones” and their hiding of successes while simultaneously pounding the drums of defeatism.

Obama’s entire position is a sham. And McCain whiffed on all of it.

Sep 27, 2008 - 6:35 am 127. RV:

The foreign issues is a little of a no win for Obama, win-win for McCain. McCain will spit out what people want to hear, and they will love him for it, and praise him. If Obama actually spit out the truth, then people will call him unpatriotic and so forth. Case in point, the surge. Obama could have, and should have, correctly pointed out that the surge was a very small variable in the reduction of violence. But, he would have been hammered by people who have no desire to see things clearly, and he would have been labeled as someone who does not support the troops.

Sep 27, 2008 - 6:36 am 128. Len:

did I see right ?
McCain wasn’t wearing a flag pin ?
and Obama was.
funny.

Sep 27, 2008 - 6:51 am 129. marymcl:

OK Carlos, Jeff, unbiased, et al ~

Let’s leave eye contact and TV performance aside for a minute and talk about your man’s upcoming nuclear war with Pakistan, shall we?

What about it folks? I really want to hear how this is supposed to work out.

Sep 27, 2008 - 6:56 am 130. michael:

McCain is the typical linear thinking Republican redneck. These people led by the Bushies have little ability to think abstractly or use analysis or synthesis.

In steps BO with his thoughtful insight, beyond, naturally most dumb Americans in this conservative age of religious wingnuts who speak in tongues (Palin and her Pentacostal freaks).

If McCain is elected the religious right will have its wars, with Iran next. BO looked like a gentleman next to McCain who couldn’t even look at BO.

Frankly, is there a way to exile religious redneck Republicans and let the rest of us get on to civilization? Perhaps the fundamentalist Muslims and Christians could meet on an island and slug it out while the rest of us try to maintain the earth.

Mike

Sep 27, 2008 - 6:58 am 131. Paxus:

Wow. It seems like the those commenting here clearly think McCain won. But the polls clearly show the debate was won by Obama, especially if you include the number of people who thought it was tie, given the topic was supposed to be McCains. Perhaps it is time to take off your pajamas and smell the reality coffee.

Sep 27, 2008 - 7:02 am 132. misanthropicus:

Since the media declared the results a tie (and Chris Matthews appeared kind of frustrated after), that means that McCain won this segment of the competition, Obama looking most of the time reactive or defensive.

Sep 27, 2008 - 7:08 am 133. jane:

Reading comments here from the Obama supporters and listening to some call-in radio programs has only enforced my opinion that for liberals the election is all about feelings. It’s emotion not logic.

This morning some woman on the radio was whining because McCain referred to Obama as Senator while he called McCain John.” In her opinion that showed “disrespect.” When did using someone’s courtesy title become disrespectful? She should have been happy McCain didn’t call Obama A$$h@le.

She also was upset that McCain “didn’t look at Obamaa” Talk about caring about insignificant things. Perhaps McCain was worried that his eyes would roll back in his head if he had to look at Obama?

All the logic and facts in the world will not change the mind(?) of a committed “make me feel good” Obama supporter. They want a Daddy to make them feel secure in the dark, not a President.

Sep 27, 2008 - 7:13 am 134. Richard Ostroff:

Though the debate appeared to be a draw, Obama accomplished a strategic win. Obama needed to show the American people that he has the intelligence, temperment, and the ability to see everything between two opposing positions in contrast to the “Cowboy Diplomacy” of both Bush an McCain . This should alleve the fears of many swing voters and Independents, allowing them to vote for a fresh thinker instead of a politician who has voted the with the Republican party 93% of the time.

Sep 27, 2008 - 7:17 am 135. cfbleachers:

Economic issues put forward by Obama and whiffed on by McCain were equally frustrating last night.

Neither of these Senators appears to be able to pass Econ 101 at a local community college. They clearly do not understand Macro-economics and they are even worse at micro-economics.

The bailout is a disastrous policy, 100 leading Economists have signed a petition to not move forward on it…and the discussion last night failed to hit on ANY of the key issues.

First, McCain has been told…PROPERLY…that the “fundamentals” of our economy are still sound. This is actually true. EVERY economist of credibility will say the same thing. This is not to suggest that we don’t have a severe CREDIT crisis, especially related to mortgage lending, and lending in general. We do. And, that credit crisis is impacting the financial markets in a strong CORRECTION that we are living through.

Obama (and his minions and lackeys in the propaganda arm of the leftist party wing) attempt to saddle this on Bush Administration policies. Hogwash. This credit crisis is the market self-correcting a disastrous mountain of “easy credit” that was foisted upon the public by the DEMOCRATS.

The leftists in this country jammed through a relaxation of underwriting terms in order to allow their “populist” base of constituents the ability to spend money beyond what they earn. Easy credit is a huge risk, even at low numbers for people living paycheck to paycheck. But, the problem stemmed from the notion that this “easy credit” should be applied to big ticket items…then, on to the BIGGEST ticket most people ever purchase. A house.

It takes a while to get into serious trouble with a credit card…but millions of people get there. But, it takes one stroke of a pen to get into major trouble with a home purchase on easy credit.

Obama laid the problem at the feet of the “Bush Administration policies” and McCain let him get away with it. Moreover, the “bailout” has an “earmark” in it for Acorn and La Raza…and McCain never once complained about it. McCain failed to pin the tail on the donkey and then failed to explain why earmarks for Acorn and La Raza were a slap in the face to the taxpayers who are going to be saddled with this “easy credit mass bankruptcy”.

What this is, is a hybrid Chapter 13 in which the government is acting as the trustee and the American taxpayer essentially pays off the debt for the Democrats social engineering projects.

The Democrats have, in essence…built “a bridge loan to nowhere”. They imposed relaxed credit and underwriting standards on the market, threatened lending institutions with Equal Lending violations if they didn’t give unqualified buyers high risk loans and now want to have the taxpayer pay off their experiment WHILE BLAMING THE REPUBLICANS for the fiasco.

The bailout is doomed to failure. In order to give the banks any relief, the Treasury has to give them enough financial incentive to sell the pooled loans. However, the inventory of non-performing loans is so large…there is no market to sell them back at that price. They will have to give the banks 75-80 cents on the dollar to “save” them from failure….and allow them to lend out more money.

But the market won’t support a buy back of that inventory at more than 40 cents on the dollar. That’s a 100% loss. The DIFFERENCE…will have to be made up by the taxpayer.

Who pays the majority of the taxes for our federal government? The top 25% of income earners and small business operators. THEY will be saddled with this tab. And ANY time there is a profit….Acorn and La Raza will get 20% of it. Acorn…the group under investigation…the one Obama and Ayers steered money to previously. McCain whiffed on the entire issue.

Obama also came out saying that he would only raise taxes on people making $250,000 or more. McCain let him get away with this. Obama is on record as eliminating cuts and imposing taxation in a dozen different ways. Capital gains, inheritance, …every conceivable attack on investment and growth. It has been shown repeatedly that imposing additional taxes does NOT help, it hurts the growth of the economy. McCain whiffed on the issue…never ONCE talking about ALL the taxes that Sen. Obama wants to employ.

Sen. Obama said that “regulation isn’t a bad thing”. When…ever….has bureaucratic red tape and governmental oversight with unmotivated employees and layers of political cronies EVER…provided a good answer to a problem? The government as nanny is a boondoggle. McCain whiffed on this issue. Never responded to it with examples of failed attempt after failed attempt to make the government into “competitor” to the market itself.

Sen. Obama said that his father came to this country to get an education because it was the only country in the world where it was possible to do so for anyone. What he didn’t say, is that his father left this country and spent a lifetime slandering it…as a Socialist in Kenya. (nor did he mention that he has surrounded himself with people his entire life who have slandered it from the hard left as well…including Frank Marshall Davis, Jeremiah Wright, Bill Ayers, Bernadine Dorhn, numerous Nation of Islam staffers, etc)

Neither candidate discussed why the bailout is a bad idea, how it would be paid for, who would pay for it and whether or not there are better alternatives. McCain had a chance to make HUGE points here, to saddle the Democrats with the “rush to impaired judgment”, with foisting this problem on the taxpayer and then compounding the slap in the face with this inane bridge loan to nowhere. He whiffed.

Sep 27, 2008 - 7:18 am 136. mina:

MY Sixteen year old son who is oblivious to world or national politics if it doesn’t come in a video for PS3, sat down for the first 65 minutes of the debate while eating his dinner. He became enthralled with the two candidates listening intensly. Finally he jumped up and blurted out. “Man I have seen more B.S. come out of that Obama’s mouth in 60 minutes than I could see come from a dairy cows ass in a week”. He talks in circles and never says anything”.Who’s he kidding? And stomped back off to his room. I wish he could vote.

Sep 27, 2008 - 7:30 am 137. cfbleachers:

Finally, the issue of Putin, Georgia, and the global implications stemming therefrom.

On this issue, Obama got schooled. This was probably the best moment of the debate for McCain. He knew the issues, he knew the players, he cited the history…he was prepared and masterful.

One thing I didn’t like…the REPEATING of the suggestion that Obama “didn’t understand”. Say it once and you make your point. Say it twice and it sounds like some staffer told you it was a good “talking point”. Say it repeatedly…and it loses its impact and sounds like a pre-programmed tool in a crass political game.

Much better…is when McCain rattled off the history and why it was germane to understanding the issues before us now. He looked like he had a firm grasp on the situation and Obama looked like a guy hoping that the propaganda machine arm of the Democratic party could spin this away.

Obama had very little of substance to say about the global importance…he sounded like a senior in high school saying he would try to get the mystery meat special taken off the cafeteria menu. He lacked depth and comprehension and he couldn’t match McCain’s mastery of the players.

McCain also scored when he said that Obama never visited the region…or any region. Never met with any of the players. Never has done much of anything except run for President 143 days into his federal office position. Obama has voted with his party nearly 100% of the time, except when he voted to the LEFT of his party. He has NEVER reached across the aisle and voted or proposed anything that was remotely bi-partisan.

Obama needs the propaganda machine to gloss over this portion of the debate, spin it and whitewash the glaring deficiencies. It was McCain’s only moment of substance.

Obama lost on substance. Huge. The polls and the whitewash spin cycle will try to reverse the effects of this by hiding the glaring flaws and focusing on frivolous…then making a plan of deceit. McCain whiffed on opportunity after opportunity. He could have knocked Obama out. Instead, he landed a few pitty-pat jabs.

We are running four people….out of 3 million….and the last several elections…we haven’t come close to our best and our brightest.

Sep 27, 2008 - 7:32 am 138. marymcl:

RV ~

I disagree completely with your assessment of the surge (like McCain said, it isn’t a tactic, it’s a strategy) but your post articulates one of the reasons I find Obama inadequate to the task of POTUS. If he truly balks at advancing his views in a domestic debate because he fears knee-jerk criticism, (and given what I’ve seen in this campaign so far, I find your argument persuasive on that point) what does that tell us about how he’s likely to deal with foreign leaders on our behalf? Or serve as CIC?

This is especially worrisome when we consider his seemingly endless concern for what the rest of the world supposedly thinks of us. I’ve never heard him express a word of concern over what Americans might be thinking about the rest of the world.

Sep 27, 2008 - 7:34 am 139. Barack Obama:

cfbleachers – You are right. I’ve been consistently clear on many of the same points that you make. But I must set the record straight on a few key issues. Just to reiterate my position and more clearly define my stance, a stance in which 95% of Americans agree with me by the way, is this… yes probably, but I doubt it.

I’ll say it again, because this election is too important for the direction of America to get caught up in 4 more years of George Bush policies. Yes probably, but I doubt it… applies to the most important issues facing this country. As the next President of the United States this will be the kind of clear judgement you will see from me. I hope this helps and I hope I get your vote on Nov. 5th.

Sep 27, 2008 - 7:54 am 140. Self-hating boomer:

Obama did a lot better than I expected, but that’s not a very high bar. McCain didn’t do as well as I expected, but that’s a considerably higher bar. McCain should have wrapped Freddie and Fanny around Obi’s neck.

Sep 27, 2008 - 7:59 am 141. Chris in Toronto:

From Wikipedia:

“The theories expressed in The Prince describe methods that an aspiring prince can use to acquire the throne, or an existing prince can use to maintain his reign. According to Machiavelli, the greatest moral good is a virtuous and stable state, and actions to protect the country are therefore justified even if they are cruel. Machiavelli strongly suggests, however, that the prince must not be hated. He states, “…a wise prince should establish himself on that which is his own control and not in that of others; he must endeavor to avoid hatred, as is noted.” He also says “it is best to be both feared and loved; however, if one cannot be both it is better to be feared than loved.”"

Sep 27, 2008 - 8:05 am 142. ReCon USMC:

Last night there were many Obvious simple observations .
Oboma did the age old Class envy (no change ) Warfare tactic since 62 % of Americans pay little or if any taxes and many Americans still think Free is Free sadly ? Giving Tax breaks to 95 % and the top 5 % picking up a Trillion dollars of debt ? Yet he wants to raise Capitol gains and Corp. TAX ? 70 % all COS . in America are small business’s who that would kill Jobs and our Exports that are saving America now !
Next .. every time Obama was corned and caught in stupid statements like on Iraq , Pakistan and Afghanistan he smiled like McCain was a fool being the fool himself .
Next … he seemed like a out of touch with basic reality and very elite like and he was “reading ” from a text Book in a class room .
You get than when he has never had a real Job in his life or owned a business .
Mc Cain sounded like Boots on the Ground man since he had been to all those countries and was a warrior … not as a anti war observer who sees America as Wrong and EUROPE and our enemies as already right .Then talking to Iran without any Rules UPFRONT since that would be America gives into a nut case (their papers and TV would say )who wants to destroy Israel and America .
Big Difference there since McCain knows better and pointed it out . Obama should have be called out on trying to talk to the PM in Iraq to doing nothing until He was President . That is Treason !
Obama still said we should not have gone to Iraq but Bin Laden and General David Patraeus “Both ” said that was where the WAR was at …There are no Fences between Pakistan Iraq and Afghanistan.
It is also The Telbane we are fighting in Afghanistan not Al Quaeda ……”"Obama “? Since Al Quada there are meaningless as they are in Iraq now .
Remember no one wants on our side to fight in Mountains , caves without Supplies and few landing zones in hostel regions protecting Bin Laden .
Obama again assured us that he would raise taxes in a down market and ad many new welfare spending programs WHICH IS BEYOND MORONIC .
I also watched Journalist on Fox News like Fred Banes proving those that live inside the Beltway know nothing about the real world .
Obama’s world view and past is fine for a Liberal class room but not in the real world …. Mc Can has “Experience ” you can’t find in a Class room or as a street Organizer or getting out the vote for far left of left Acorn ……and this is not a on Job training program as President .

Sep 27, 2008 - 8:06 am 143. Chris:

Why didn’t McCain ever look at Obama in the face during the entire debate? Is he scared to look the man in the eye? Some people around the world judge a man by how he looks him in the face. My Grandpa who is only 10 years older than John told me to never trust someone who won’t look me in the face.

I personally can’t imagine foreign policy meetings or meetings with foreign dignitaries going well with John McCain staring at the floor.

God help us if the Wicked Witch of the North becomes President!

Sep 27, 2008 - 8:07 am 144. misanthropicus:

UPDATE to: misanthropicus: “Since the media declared the results a tie (and Chris Matthews appeared kind of frustrated after), that means that McCain won this segment of the competition, Obama looking most of the time reactive or defensive.”

Actually even CNN which declares Obama a winner in their poll has a disclaimer in their text admitting that their poll is not “scientific” and doesn’t cover the larger American spectrum but generally Democrats.

Sep 27, 2008 - 8:14 am 145. chicago:

so the new spin from the Obamatons and the liberal media is that the debate was a draw.

LMAO!!!

I’ve read arguments of “McCain didn’t look at Obama” or “McCain kept calling Obama ‘Senator’.”

SO WHAT!

the facts remain:

1) McCain was clearly the more experienced candidate.

2) Obama AGREED with John McCain on ALL points.

3) “Senator Obama DOES NOT UNDERSTAND.”

4) Obama – I HAVE A BRACELET TOO!!! I just haven’t bothered to read the name on it yet!

5) Obama LIED on what Kissinger said and GOT CAUGHT RED HANDED!

let’s face it, McCain mopped the floor with Obama and all Obama can do was say “ME TOO!”

the liberal media can spin it all they want, but McCain took Obama to the wood shed, slapped him around, and schooled him on Foreign Policy.

Keep in mind that McCain is already ahead with independent voters. McCain doesn’t need to win all independent voters. McCain only needs to keep chopping away at that independent voter pool a few points at a time and that’s what he’s been doing.

Obama on the other hand need ALL of the Hillary supporters in order to win, but he’s not wooing them over and still only has 58% of them (has not changed since June). Obama also need the blue collar vote which he alienated on his “bitterly clinging to guns and religion” fiasco. None will trust him after that.

with the economy in the state it’s in, Obama should be 20 points ahead but he’s not. that shows that many independent voters still don’t trust him and would never trust him. now Obama’s Chicago connections are coming out and with Gov. Blagojevich having the possibility of an indictment due to corruption, Obama is looking more like a corrupt politician (as he’s always been) than an agent of change. Even democrats are scared that Obama might bring a lot of his sleazy Chicago buddies to the white house and that has many democrats like Lynne Rothschild and Donald Trump to endorse McCain and many more will follow as the days go by. Donna Brazille has done a great job in alienating 30 to 35% of the democrat party and Obama will pay for it.

Sep 27, 2008 - 8:15 am 146. dyward:

God help us all if John McCain get elected. War War and more War. He uses his well-scripted stump speech over and over and you guys buy it every time. Just like Bush – why does America keep buying this stuff? How much lower do we have to go? If I her John McCain say the word Surge one more time I am going to throw up. Our children are dying over there – don’t talk about it like it is some big political win. Ok – the surge worked- more american troops died – now what.

Sep 27, 2008 - 8:30 am 147. trangbang68:

And the award for most lies, Daily Kos talking points, distortions and feverish rantings goes to JoJo Halfwit… C’mon down JoJo. Does “Unbiased” saying I’m so proud of Obama’s poise…not ring just a tad of irony?

Sep 27, 2008 - 8:31 am 148. ReCon USMC:

Chris:

Why didn’t McCain ever look at Obama in the face during the entire debate? Is he scared to look the man in the eye? Some people around the world judge a man by how he looks him in the face. My Grandpa who is only 10 years older than John told me to never trust someone who won’t look me in the face.
_______________________
OBAMA DIDN’T LOOK McCain the face LEFTY OR DIDN’T THAT MATTER !
You stare at the damn TV and Audience Bra ! Duh .
Chest to Chest you stare at each other Nose to Nose !
We MARINES LIKE THAT KIND OF PARTY .
A real Warrior against a elite Harvard Street activist Pimp !
The Warrior always wins .

Sep 27, 2008 - 8:33 am 149. LIZ:

I believe McCain won by far!! He showed the most knowledge on foreign affairs and leadership. President is a commander in chief….and on-th-job- training is not good enough to hold that position.
McCain has my vote!!!!

Sep 27, 2008 - 8:41 am 150. Susan Katz Keating:

McCain absolutely completely and thoroughly kicked butt. Obama stumbled and stuttered his way through nearly every question. He changed the subject. He evaded. He showed his naivete. I was, therefore, engraged to read the pundits’ proclamations that he won. Makes me wanna gag.

Sep 27, 2008 - 8:42 am 151. JMH:

Okay, so at this point, I think we can reconstruct the ActionAlert message sent by the Obama campaign to their TrollNet after the debate:

To: Obmanation TrollNet
From: AxeMan
Re: Post-debate talking points

Push these point on as many conservative and neutral websites as possible:

-Say McCain is stuck in the past, Obama is focused on the future.

-Complain that McCain wouldn’t look Obama in the face. Assert this is somehow relevant and critical (sorry, we can’t give you any help here, you’ll have to get creative on this one).

-Claim that McCain is “scary.”

-Assert that “all the polls show Obama won.”

Push these memes until further notice. We will update the talking points with the next ActionAlert as needed.

Sep 27, 2008 - 8:43 am 152. ReCon USMC:

dyward:

God help us all if John McCain get elected. War War and more War. He uses his well-scripted stump speech over and over and you guys buy it every time. Just like Bush – why does America keep buying this stuff? How much lower do we have to go? If I her John McCain say the word Surge one more time I am going to throw up. Our children are dying over there – don’t talk about it like it is some big political win. Ok – the surge worked- more American troops died – now what.
______________________
Psss dyward Bra . More people have been Murdered on the Streets of Chicago (312 )100 % Liberal Governed …..than have died any kind of way in Iraq this year WHERE A REAL WAR IS FOR FREEDOM …. FREEING THE SLAVES .
That goes for Phila “all liberal “Governed as well with more Murders than deaths in Iraq .
It is safer in Iraq than in most Black Hoods .
17, 271 WERE MURDERED LAST YEAR IN AMERICA …..NOT AMERICAN TROOPS THAT HAVE DIED BUT BRA’S IN THE HOOD MOSTLY …. BLACK ON BLACK MURDER 95 % of the time .THAT IS WHAT YOU”"SHOULD BE TALKING ABOUT !
OF COURSE IT HELPS WITH US TAX PAYERS SUPPORTING LIBERAL OBAMA WELFARE ADDICTIONS….. THAT IS WHY YOU LIKE HIM OBVIOUSLY .

Sep 27, 2008 - 8:47 am 153. chicago:

Let’s not forget that Obama also wants to send $850 billion to “fight” poverty around the world. more socialist projects that will increase the already biggest transfer of wealth from America to the world.

Obama will keep sending $700 billion of oil money to countries that doesn’t like us…but he’s upped the ante by hatching another $850 billion project to end poverty. Obama is going to send more money to non-americans than his supposed tax cut would give the fictitious 95% of Americans.

that does not sound like a leader that has America’s prosperity in mind.

and some Obamatons here are saying “god help us if McCain wins.” you’ve gotta be kidding me!

Obama wants to increase the already biggest transfer of wealth oversease by over 100%, increase government spending by hundreds of billions of dollars, claim to give a tax cut to 95% of taxpayers (even though half of that 95% don’t even pay taxes), and claims he’ll pay for it by raising taxes on the top 5% of taxpayers. you don’t need to be a math wiz to see that that equation will never come out positive.

God help us if Obama get’s into the white house. the first thing he’ll do is to request earmarks for Chicago and pay off his bosses there. Mayor Daley of Chicago is already sounding off that they he will need hundred of millions in tax dollars in order to win the 2016 Olympics bid. Obama’s next move when he gets into the white house is to stop the investigation of Gov Rod Blagojevich. that’s just for starters…then he’ll start working on extending the ban on OCS oil drilling and Oil Shale Drilling and send back oil specluators into the oil market and boost the price up into the $150 range to $200 range again. then he’ll start working on sending $850 billion to the world and much of that will go the UN, which we all know is just filled with corrupt hacks, how much of that money would they pocket for themselves and how much of that money would find it’s way into terrorist hands via UN projects?

Obama is the most dangerous presidential candidate this country has seen. vote him in and you can all say good bye to America as a superpower. Obama will turn us into a thrid world country in four years.

Sep 27, 2008 - 8:50 am 154. RightishLeft:

It’s simple.

Forget left and right (that distinction in the US is a joke anyway). Forget defense and affirmative action.

If we don’t fix the American economy (as in American jobs – not the profits of “American” corporations doing design in Korea and manufacturing in China) – this country is done for. We need an immediate fix as well as a long term plan. And while Republicans used to rightfully call the Democrats a “tax and spend” party, they themselves long ago turned into a “borrow and overspend” one. They turned int a biggest toxic loan holder and promoter in the world. I don’t trust them with my future and the future of my children.

As far as I am concerned, the Republican party is bankrupt.

I will vote for the lesser of two evils. Again.

Sep 27, 2008 - 8:51 am 155. cedarford:

USA:
Did you notice that Obama has a bracelet too? Too bad he had to look down to see whose name was on it.

There was one moment when I really cheered Obama was when McCain tried using his bracelet prop to assert because of one Mother, he had complete moral authority in his war vision.

“John, I have a bracelet too”…(that I could similarly use as a prop to claim moral superiority in my position war was a mistake..)

I am sick to death of this or that individual being dredged up as a prop by politicians to justify general policy. Same with the “Tell it to the Madge Horners of Buffalo NY suffering from cancer who needs better roads, cheaper gas to get to her chemotherapy, free medical, and free college for her 3 daughters!!” trope.

When their opponent brings up Buffalo Fed earmarks, road repair pork, eliminating the gas tax, universal health care, or a 90 billion new “education package” comes up. It is trying to shut down debate by waving the moral blackmail of bracelets or implying that if their opponents are against anything, they are uncaring bastards that don’t care about Madge Horner of Buffalo.

Reagan’s handlers started this by inserting specific people, props, and symbols into his speeches to “give them the legitimacy” of specifically affected people. Reagan employed it as a modern variant of waving the bloody shirt of a dead French Revolutionary..Nixon’s handlers updated it when they started the whole POW/MIA cult and helped create and market the bracelets and flags and other paraphenalia. And the “Tell it to…!!!” threat, a programmatic trope, originated in the Marxist Left, but has spread to most campaigns at one time or another.

Both lasted because they worked. And still works, but the eye-rolling is well underway since it is now a 30-year old, predictable tactic at rallies and political debates.

======================
McCain’s image of the bracelet was emotional and sincere and made his point well. Obama then responded that he had his own bracelet — but to compare the two lines, it is McCain who brought it up and resonated strongly.

McCain knew the name on his prop because he has used it 80 times before in his stump speeches and practiced and practiced saying it emotionally and sincerely. Just as Reagan did. Or Bill Clinton who added the voice cracking and lip quiver effect when he dredged up some family tragedy to justify his stchick on gun control, why he was for letting “hard-working Mexicans” to flood across the Border.
==============
3. McCain came across as sincere. Mentioning the bracelet was very touching.

It should be very touching. Politicians pay a lot of money for image consultants to figure out ways to emotionally manipulate you by seeking out the “right victims” and the right victims’ props that can be hauled out at appropriate minutes at public events.

Bush has a whole bagful of such props of dead cop badges, fireman’s hats, nurse stethoscopes, dead Marine purple hearts he used over 8 years, plus the “victim family” rolodex to tap and fly into his appearances.

Edwards campaigned with his favorite props of outsourced mill workers he could spotlight to affirm tales of woe with, suffering black mothers who just lost a thug son to “senseless assault weapon and automatic pistol” violence…

So kudos to Team Axelrod for meeting McCains manipulative props with their own props…

Not that I favor Obama. Just that I detest use of “special symbolic victims, wounded heroes, symbolic artifacts of dead astronauts, cancer victims, etc.” being used as modern stand-ins for Robespierre and Jacobin bloody shirts because they reliably sucker voters, and attempt to libel anyone opposing policy associated with the prop waved as “inhumane, uncaring”.

Sep 27, 2008 - 8:59 am 156. AlexinCT:

Obama offered the same usual talking points the left has graced us with for a long time while avoiding any specifics. That’s probably why he did so well without his teleprompters. But as soon as he needed to become specific he looked lost. Anyone else also notice that after Obama hammered McCain for being a Bush clone, a ludicrous concept at best, claiming that Bush destroyed the economy even though it is obvious the economy went south after the democrats won in 2006, then went on to promise rampant collectivist freebees that would literally cost trillions of dollars without batting an eye?

The Obama trolls are out in numbers trying to pull the wool over people’s eyes and the stupid repeated talking points are clear proof of that. But the fact remains that Obama looked like he was only comfortable talking as long as he did not have to deliver facts, details, or use logic. Collectivism by the way is not forward thinking. We have had 100 years of it already, with both fascism and communism showing how effective they are. Some thing like 200 million people where killed and a couple of billion held hostage. It has not worked anywhere. And yet here you nut jobs are telling us this is our future and that your guy is great for promising that future. No wonder you people hate being reminded of the past and get pissed when it is brought up.

And continue to hammer Palin please. I understand how dangerous a woman that is both self sufficient and against daddy-government is to your ideology, but every time you donkeys use your dirty tactics to try and falsely make it look like Palin is out of her league, you help make it obvious that Obama, whom is definitely less experienced than Palin, is unqualified to be POTUS.

Sep 27, 2008 - 9:03 am 157. AlexinCT:

Hey RightishLeft,

You do realize that even though republicans have not been as fiscally conservative as they needed to be in the last 8 years that things did not go bad economically for us all until democrats won in 2006 and proceeded to make what the republicans had done the previous 6 years look like they had practiced good fiscal disicpline? Don’t let any of thosedetails stop you from deliviering your talking points and pretending you are doing anything noble. Democrats will do much worse and people like you know damn well they will, but are lying about it.

Sep 27, 2008 - 9:07 am 158. Ragena:

What debate? All either one of them did was point fingers and place blame! I didn’t hear any specifics about what either one of them intends to do about a single subject discussed. They were too busy trying to make the other guy look bad and in the process only made themselves look like fools. It was a joke.

Sep 27, 2008 - 9:13 am 159. gregory:

Aren’t you folks a little concern that all these comments are just echos in a closed box? If you continue to listen to just yourselves and not to the rest of the world, won’t your reality be shocked when you finally come out of Aristotle’s Cave?

A fair assessment is this: the debate was a draw. There were no knockouts. A draw favors Obama because 1) this was supposed to be the debate where McCain displays the great advantage he has in foreign policy: he didn’t; and 2) Obama is in the lead and McCain needed to catch up.

If all you can do is feed on one another’s blind loyalty to the GOP, you aren’t being real, nor helping your party come to grip with the growing distance between itself and the rest of America.

Independent for Obama

NB: Do a factcheck on Sen. McCain’s closing statement: MCCAIN: Jim, when I came home from prison, I saw our veterans being very badly treated, and it made me sad. And I embarked on an effort to resolve the POW-MIA issue, which we did in a bipartisan fashion, and then I worked on normalization of relations between our two countries so that our veterans could come all the way home.

What did he actually do or not do? My review of websites discussing the Senator’s effects re the MIA issue shows a very bizarre history.

Sep 27, 2008 - 9:15 am 160. ds:

McCain is a survivor, no matter what the MSM say or do he will still be in this thing on election day and could very well win it. Every time he has been written off he comes back and this may end up being his ultimate triumph. If Palin comes off well in the debate, people get comfortable with her, this is a McCain win in November. I think part of the media blackout with Palin is designed to lower expectations for the VP debate and keep both the Obama campaign and the MSM off balance, meanwhile they are planning an absolute skewering of Biden.

Sep 27, 2008 - 9:17 am 161. Chris:

John is scared. Bad VP candidate. Bad foreign policy advisers. Bad economic policies. I’m an independent and I agree that John should called Mitt Romney before Thursday and beg for forgiveness.

Joe Biden is going to eat her alive. I’m sure in another life I wasn’t in Roman times. I couldn’t have watched the gladiator matches and the VP debate may make the Coliseum look like a daycare experiment.

lub dub, lub dub, lub dub…hear the heart beating?

Sep 27, 2008 - 9:32 am 162. Mike Pitzler:

What can a socialist say that would win an argument on the economy? Increase taxes, increase spending? It’s not just Senator Obama’s words, it’s what he intends, and what’s being covered up. What did this guy do in Chicago, for instance? He’s tax and spend and spin. McCain and Palin are reformers. Obama and Biden are the same old failed and failing big government party line insiders. The last thing Obama wants is for us to connect him with his political history.

Sep 27, 2008 - 9:32 am 163. USAF Captain:

cfbleachers writes:

“Obama lost on substance…HUGE…last night.

“First, his positions on Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran, North Korea, Venezuela…even Spain…are irrational, inconsistent and oxymoronic (emphasis on the moronic).”

I believe that John McCain’s campaign should have employed you as a principal in their debate prep. Your two postings are insightful and well-crafted.

Good job!

Sep 27, 2008 - 9:34 am 164. Lisa:

I for one don’t know why Americans base their decisions on who should be president just by watching debates. Obama is one scary dude dispatching his speech police around the country to shut down any criticism. That alone sends a chill down my spine, but there’s so much more!! Wright, Ayers, Pfleger, Rezko, Raines, Johnson and on and on. People should be judged by the company they keep because it’s very telling.

This financial crisis has democrat hands ALL OVER IT, but if you hear the spin coming from the democrats it’s John McCain’s fault or Bush’s fault, blah, blah, blah. Why don’t the republicans fight back and hold pressers explaining how we got here?!!

This is sheer lunacy and I fear this country is getting ready to make a very big mistake AGAIN. Too many Americans are more interested in Dancing with the Stars than paying any attention to the real issues facing this country. If we can’t even admit the malignancy behind the current ecomonic disaster how are we ever going to change things? We’re left with people making decisions for the future of this country who only tune in for the debates and ignore everything else. Sigh.

Sep 27, 2008 - 9:34 am 165. dyward:

ReCon USMC:
______________________
Psss dyward Bra . More people have been Murdered on the Streets of Chicago (312 )100 % Liberal Governed …..than have died any kind of way in Iraq this year WHERE A REAL WAR IS FOR FREEDOM …. FREEING THE SLAVES .
That goes for Phila “all liberal “Governed as well with more Murders than deaths in Iraq .
It is safer in Iraq than in most Black Hoods .
17, 271 WERE MURDERED LAST YEAR IN AMERICA …..NOT AMERICAN TROOPS THAT HAVE DIED BUT BRA’S IN THE HOOD MOSTLY …. BLACK ON BLACK MURDER 95 % of the time .THAT IS WHAT YOU””SHOULD BE TALKING ABOUT !
OF COURSE IT HELPS WITH US TAX PAYERS SUPPORTING LIBERAL OBAMA WELFARE ADDICTIONS….. THAT IS WHY YOU LIKE HIM OBVIOUSLY .
_________________________________________________________________________

No actually I am one of those upperdy Negoes who make over the $250,000 mark and who also is dismayed with the rise in black on black murders. I also own my own business, own my own home and pay plenty of taxes. Oh, I also own my own car. I travel abroad frequently and I talk to people of all nations. I am in China as we speak. I am not blinded by the rhetoric of the new media. I work for myself and I think for myself. Your stereotyping is typical of republicans. They feel that white people are the only ones who work and pay taxes and all us black folk sit home on welfare. Why do they feel this way – the news media. So “my friend”, this election has brought a great deal to the surface of America. I will be OK – no matter who is elected, but I am smart enough and compassionate enough to realize that it is more than about me. PS – don’t watch Fox news, it is affecting your brain.

Sep 27, 2008 - 9:38 am 166. CALIndie:

cedarford – “So kudos to Team Axelrod for meeting McCains manipulative props with their own props…”

Maybe you don’t remember the P.O.W./M.I.A. bracelets of the Vietnam war. My father wore one for 4 years and never took it off – Capt. Robert Sullivan, M.I.A. I remember it to this day! As a P.O.W. himself John McCain’s name was on a bracelet worn by a faithful/prayerful American. These bracelets were a true show of support for our soldiers who were missing or a P.O.W. This is the context in which John McCain wears his bracelet. You’re an idiot.

This, in my opinion, clearly illustrates the psychological disorder that defines liberals. Because your only strategy is playing games with deception and trickery, you think everyone lives in your game with you. Therefore, when John McCain genuinely supports the family of the young man represented on his bracelet you and your ilk gotta get you one too… even if you have to stop and look down to read the name on it! Pathetic! But I’m sure you think it was soooooo coooool and soooooo slick just like your messiah (little m). It was the height of ignorance!

Keep it coming cedarford! The more you and your comrades share your thoughts and ideas the more clear thinking patriots are drawn to John McCain and Sarah Palin.

Sep 27, 2008 - 9:40 am 167. Believer:

Rightish Left:

You better take a closer look at the Democrat Party and an even closer look at their candidate.

I’m pretty sure you’ll find you’ve got the “lesser of two evils” wrong.

Sep 27, 2008 - 9:44 am 168. KATHLEEN:

The way I see it is McCain repeats the same ol’ stuff. Obama does not understand! Well I thought he understood quite well about Iraq and Afaganastan. We have an ongoing war in Iraq that should not have happened. Now were still spending 10 billion or more. We need this money put into our economy that is falling apart. McCain can recite the names and places he has been but he is irradic for the last two weeks making decisions based on a whim of his. Look he chose as Vice President. Have you listened to her interviews? Is this a man with good judgement? I don’t want a man like this running the US and taking his anger out on a foreign leader without some type of compromise first.

His demeanor was terrible last night. He did not look much into the camera, looked down a lot and never looked at Obama when speaking. He seemed very at unease and unsure. Obama on the otherhand was at ease and sure of himself and respectfully looked at McCain when speaking. He stated we can still talk to our enemies before making rash judgements which I feel McCain would not do.

These earmarks McCain talks about are a drop in the bucket compared to the $700 billion Bush wants to clean up his mess on Wall Street. McCain voted 90% with his issues. Let’s not forget that. If he is President THIS WILL NOT CHANGE and again the middle class will be left out. Obama at least is working on our behalf not the rich. We the people support those large companies and corporations with our sweat and hard work everyday. Remember without the middle class this country will fall apart. It is our time to stand up and be heard and Obama will be a great President for all of us.

Sep 27, 2008 - 9:47 am 169. Amy:

How many years has Obama been running for President? Probably since before he got to the Senate. He put out two books to help sell himself to the public. He got himself a speaking slot at the 2004 convention to let the world see him. This man just wants to be Pres so badly — probably to fulfill some need in himself. For the debate, he held his finger to the wind, practiced for days, and then said whatever he thought would best help him win the election — even if what he said countered positions he’s held for years.

McCain, on the other hand, strikes me as a man of principle. A man who believes in things and who actually DOES care about this country and in making it better. McCain seems like a better candidate for the job of public servant. Boy, I sure hope he is our next President.

Sep 27, 2008 - 9:52 am 170. james wilson:

It is probably the wrong question, and winning debates assumes a listening public that can even judge such such things.
It is more important to know if they can see what is really inside the man. What is inside McCain is petty and vindictive. What is inside Obama is a sociopath.

Sep 27, 2008 - 9:54 am 171. Peggy Ledbetter:

Three observations on the debate. 1. Most telling, when Jim Lehrer asked McCain what lessons he had learned from Iraq, McCain had no constructive answer. If McCain cannot learn from our mistakes, he is destined to repeat those same mistakes. 2. McCain’s TACTICS on never looking Obama in the eye and belittling him made McCain seem arrogant and condescending—BAD STRATEGY for McCain. 3. On the issue of on the job training, since when has John McCain been President of the USA? In this position both candidates have zero experience. Which brings me back to my first observation.

Sep 27, 2008 - 9:56 am 172. kkappel:

Check out this site http://www.mediacurves.com . They analyzed all of the volleys during the debate and asked a random sample of thousands to respond by text message as to whom they agreed with in the debate as they were debating. The results are fascinating.

Sep 27, 2008 - 9:57 am 173. Jane:

The very thought of Obama becoming President of our blessed country is scary, but the thought
of the consequences of Obama, Pelosi and Reid in control is a nightmare of gigantic proportions.

Sep 27, 2008 - 9:59 am 174. Brian Dodd:

This debate to me was a repeat of the Dole-Clinton debate. I felt like McCain passed up a lot of chances to tie Obama/Dem’s to the Freddie/Fannie mess. In the end America tends to vote for the more attractive nicer guy. Palin has a lot more pressure on her now.

Does it seem to you that the press see themselves as super delegates. They are wiser and more in tuned to the world and will override us children if we a moving in the “right” direction?

Sep 27, 2008 - 10:07 am 175. WR Jonas:

Sincerity and maturity vs pomposity and arrogance are my lingering impression of the debate. I was truly concerned that McCain might not be up to the task of effectively debating the Chosen One but I was proved wrong. There are several issues that I wish McCain had hammered Obama on – not meeting with Gen. Petraeus, not visiting the hospitalized military in Germany are just two. But for a man who cannot remember the name of the person on his bracelet, why should I be surprised that he wouldn’t use his time to visit an injured soldier. Oh, yes! I really want this puppet as Commander in Chief!!

Sep 27, 2008 - 10:14 am 176. GETAGRIP:

This country is headed for ruine by the hands of republicans and greedy corporate leaders. Most of the democrats who say they are voting for McCain are just racist and this will show the world what asses Americans are. Lets walk the walk and stop just talking the talk. Is this country for freedom and equality or just interested in keeping the “Good Old Boy” network going? We need a change for the better people.

Sep 27, 2008 - 10:24 am 177. CallMeIshmael:

You have a pretty good take on the debate except for one point. McCain was never rude. Obama kept trying to cut in even semi-forcefully attempting to talk over McCain. McCain could have backed off and relinquished the floor to Obama. Sure, sure the drive-byes would have fallen all over themselves with praise for McCain’s gentlemanliness. Meanwhile, Obama would have highjacked the debate and would have had a green light to interrupt McCain every time McCain was on the verge of making a forceful point. Let me just remind you of Johnny Cochran’s interruptions and incessant objections and requests for sidebar conferences every time the Marcia Clark or Chris Darden was on the verge of making a forceful point or presenting critical evidence during the O.J. trial. If McCain had allowed Obama to get away with that trick even once he might as well have conceded the debate. Obama would never again allow McCain to complete a thought. McCain thankfully, ignored Obama’s interruptions and kept delivering his message until Obama was forced to stop whereupon he produced one of his trade marked sh*t eating grins. McCain was masterful. Obama was a street agitator trying to appear “presidential.”

Sep 27, 2008 - 10:33 am 178. NickV:

I love how happy the McCain supporters are! To bad the polls after the debate or in the key states fly in the face of their optimism. Can’t wait for Palin to reprise her performance from the other day! Fun fun fun!

Sep 27, 2008 - 10:41 am 179. CALIndie:

Amy – Obama just released his 3rd book last week. He has not written one piece of legislation in the Senate. He claims the work of those who did write legislation because he signed his name to it. His only goal is to be President of the United States.

With ZERO political or executive accomplishments on his resume he is required to become the best actor he can be. This is his one area of signigicant accomplishment. He is an accomplished liar, because that’s what actors are really doing, lying to us to fool our thinking. Anything less than the Presidency will not accomplish his goal for the complete “change” of America to socialism managed by a black man and all the entitlements (read: reparations) that can be advanced under his control.

To his credit, I guess… he truly believes he is the ONE, annointed if you will, for this time and this place. Remember Michelle saying during the primaries “You only have one shot at getting Barack Obama.” It is all or nothing for him. His whole life has been carefully crafted for this moment. His life goal for the Presidency resembles John Kerry’s except Obama’s “service” to his country was community organizer. As much as John Kerry is a blue-blooded liberal elitist, Barack Obama is a blue-blooded liberal socialist. They both have a pedigree.

Obama is an actor. He is playing a role that he has been striving for all his life. He has been mentored by masters of communism (little c)- Bill Ayers, Black Liberation Theology (Socialism with black power) – Rev. Wright and Communism (capital C) – Frank Marshall. Liberals love to give Academy Awards to other liberals. Obama is delivering a virtuoso performance in the role of his lifetime.

John McCain is the antithesis of Barack Obama. John McCain is a man of principle as you correctly point out. I hope as you do, we get John McCain and not a skilled, yet empty performer as our next President.

Sep 27, 2008 - 10:57 am 180. jim:

Its interesting to here McCain supporters talk to each other about how big a win the knucklehead had. Too bad it didn’t happen. By the way, I was watching the debate and he never looked down at the bracelet. Of course McCain practiced up remembering the name on his bracelet. Too bad he can’t remember how many houses he has. Regular Joe with 7 or 8 or 9 or 10 or however many houses. Oh yeah and great judgement too, since when do you win in a fight you started for no reason (Iraq) or lies. Sounds like ole John really does agree 90% of the time with Shrub.

Sep 27, 2008 - 11:00 am 181. Salsero:

I think that McCain whipped Obama (specially on foreign policy)and had him on the defensive, you could tell he got under Obama’s skin a number of times. Obama was stuttering a lot. Yet some of the spins McCain put on the “facts” about Obama’s record just crippled his credibility – this tilted the outcome in Obama’s favor in my book ever so slightly.

Sep 27, 2008 - 11:08 am 182. Antibes:

McCain whipped Obama handily. Content aside (and McCain clearly won in that department), one candidate was constantly on the defensive, reduced to smirking, scowling, and interrupting the other during his allotted speech time period, while the other was truly presidential. One squirmed, stuttered, and shook his head like a scolded school-child not even managing to hold his tongue long enough for the other to speak, while the other maintained his composure, showed his strength as a leader, and treated his opponent with respect.

Content aside, Obama showed his true colors tonight. He is so used to being surrounded by worshipers and spoon-fed questions by admiring reporters that he has no idea how to handle himself when he is questioned on something. He is clearly not ready for the White House. The Kool-Aid drinkers need to wake up before it’s too late, break free of the cult-of-personality, and start thinking for themselves instead of forming their opinions based on those of our biased media friends at MSNBC.

Sep 27, 2008 - 11:32 am 183. glenda743:

Only the media who is trying to get Obama elected believe that Obama won the Debate…. You are clearly not the winner when you agree with your appointant nineteen times..or when you steal their lines….Barack is a joke..
And about raising taxes…only a fool would not know that Someone needs to ask Barack Hussein Obama to name “JUST ONE” just one corporation or company or small business who gets higher bills…whether it is a tax bill or a utility bill or a gas bill or any kind of bill….that takes the higher bills from their bottom line….Wake up America…..they pass ALL HIGHER COSTS OF DOING BUSINESS ON TO THE CONSUMER… I just can not believe how dumb the Democrats are….Duh……Just like Fred Thompson said at convention….if you don’t plan on buying anything, it won’t affect you…..This really doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure this one out……Wake up America…. Someone in McCain’s camp need to stop every piece of crap that comes out of Obama’s mouth….. Now he’s scaring those poor old people in Florida to death about their Social Security….Even if CONGRESS…not Lord Obama were to pass a bill to privatize a portion of S.S…..it would not affect ANYONE born before 1950..Someone needs to put a stop to this man’s LIES and rebut all of his crap…..

Sep 27, 2008 - 11:37 am 184. Ed Wallis:

I wonder how long it will take for Henry Kissinger’s statement :

“Senator McCain is right. I would not recommend the next President of the United States engage in talks with Iran at the Presidential level. My views on this issue are entirely compatible with the views of my friend Senator John McCain. We do not agree on everything, but we do agree that any negotiations with Iran must be geared to reality.”

which debunked Obama’s debate lie, to wipe this neophyte out of the running.

Sep 27, 2008 - 11:37 am 185. Bev Marker:

The person who stated that the candidates were not to address one another according to the rules is wrong. Per the Commission on Presidential Debates – 2008, that rule was changed to: “Each of those debates will be divided into 8 ten-minute issue segments; the moderator will introduce each segment with an issue on which each candidate will comment, after which the moderator will facilitate further discussion of the issue, including direct exchange between the candidates, for the balance of that segment.”

Sep 27, 2008 - 11:38 am 186. CALIndie:

Jane – “…the consequences of Obama, Pelosi and Reid in control is a nightmare of gigantic proportions.”

America will never be the same. We will be another European country mired in socialism. Their abusive taxation will steal America’s drive and desire to be industrious world changers. We will quickly devolve into a society of “takers” completely dependant on the government to throw us a scrap from their table of benevolence. It will negatively effect our country for the next 100 years or until the next American Revolution.

Listen to how they are selling it. 95% of Americans will get a tax break! They don’t tell you 38% of Americans pay ZERO taxes now! Fat, rich (read: white) people will finally have to ride in the back of the bus (where they belong). Racism. They won’t tell you that there has never been a time of more prosperity, opportunity and education for black Americans and the struggles they face are largely self-imposed cultural (thug culture) problems. We’re going to give away hundreds of billions to the U.N. to fix global poverty and spend hundreds of billions more for social “change” here in America. Socialism! If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck…

Put down America, demonize industry, create class warfare, lift up government, elevate socialist politicians, redistribute wealth for “fairness”… sound like Barack Obama? Indiviual liberty is dead, collective society is the future if Obama, Pelosi and Reid, the Unholy Trinity take charge of America. Look around the world. Socialism is a failed ideology but the long line of lazy people looking for a government handout is the reason it is a cancer that keeps coming back.

Sep 27, 2008 - 11:42 am 187. 888:

McCain won — more knowledgeable about the world, has more life experiences, has no problem crossing party lines to come up with solutions for all of America. Obama, as usual, broad, over-the-top rhetoric and promises with no explanation as to how he’ll fund his humongous spending plan. Obama is way too beholden to the extreme wing of his party, to the lazy, unproductive people who rely on Uncle Sam for everything, the anti-Defense, anti-America, ant-Christian groups and the uneducated, but elitist Hollywood celebrity-types. Obama could never reach across the aisle and compromise on anything — remember it took him 20 years to denounce his racist pastor and it took over a year for him to reluctantly admit the surge was successful. You thought Bush was stubborn?? This guy’s a real mule.

McCain has long been a champion of wasteful government spending. Obama supporters don’t like to admit that government spending is a critical factor to the health of the economy, especially since Obama plans to spend billions of taxpayer dollars to get his social welfare programs in place and pay off all the special interest groups and liberal establishment types who brought him to power. His middle name? And I don’t mean Hussein…no, his middle name is Tax-n-Spend. That’s what he’ll do to America. He is dangerous to ours and the world’s economy. Obama is the same old tax-n-spend liberal in the mold of his great fellow hypocrite Democrats — Kerry, Gore, Dukakis, Edwards, Pelosi, Reid.

If Obama wins, look to more people out of work because his corporate and middle class taxes will kill big and small businesses, more jobs going abroad, more public housing, more people on welfare, less entrepreneurial spirit. He is so negative about America, that listening to him one would think we’re already in the state that we will be if he’s elected.

Sep 27, 2008 - 11:46 am 188. CALIndie:

Where did all the Obama trolls go? After they pounce on the PJM posts and puke their threads out like mindless, blind faith idiots they ride off to spread their misery elsehwhere. Typical.

For those of you who are truly interested in individual liberty and the fundamental soundness of the American worker, citizen (as John McCain believes) keep posting your thoughts. We will overcome the lies and distortions of the intellectually dishonest.

Sep 27, 2008 - 12:45 pm 189. CallMeIshmael:

CalIndie, to your point of Obama’s being “The One,” let me say I think Obama is eerily reminicent of Rosemary’s Baby. In the movie we saw all the Wiccans gathered around the crib to worship Rosemary’s Baby, Satan’s spawn. Is it just an accident that Obama follows the “organizing” principles of Saul Alinsky who himself dedicated his magnum opus, “Rules For Radicals” to Satan himself, the “First Radical who at least won his own kingdom?”

Do you ever wonder about Obama’s seeming miraculous rise from obscurity as though some unseen person was guiding his career? Why is it that we know virtually nothing about this man other than what he wants to tell us? Why does he obscure the identities of those who have helped shape him throughout his life? Why do we know absolutely nothing about his academic career other than his two degrees and that he was the president of the Law Review at Harvard? Barack Hussein Obama has even managed to erase his middle name yet none of his supporters are concerned about his totally invented persona. Is it not remarkable that we are being sleep walked into electing a man with astonishing associations without the Fourth Estate’s even so much as trying to look like they’re at all interested in finding out abything about this would be world leader’s past? I am not a religious paranoid but I find troubling this rapid rise of this Dark Horse as though from a movie like The Omen. If this man is elected I’m going to make my piece with The Lord. We’ll be in for a very rough ride.

Sep 27, 2008 - 1:07 pm 190. AlexinCT:

CALIndie, their attempts to spin the debate are not working well on sites where people use facts & logic to point out they are trolling and actually destroy the troll’s posts. That’s likely why they ahve vanished. Their guy got creamed. They where trying to “get in our faces” and hoped to leave enough ngative commentary so someone that was unable to see what had happened would not get the real picture. It didn’t work. Unfortunately for them we can show Obama’s gaffes and how McCain rode him hard.

Sep 27, 2008 - 1:30 pm 191. AdrianS:

UPDATE TO MR. PHILLIP BERG’S LAWSUIT AGAINST BARACK OBAMA BASED ON OBAMA’S INELIGIBILITY ON HIS CANDIDACY AS REGARDS THE REQUIREMENTS OF NATURAL BORN CITIZENSHIP ACCORDING TO THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

Partial excerpt from an email I sent Mr. Berg:

“I trust the judge did not originally dismiss your lawsuit because it does indeed have merit. We, as Americans, in order to fulfill the intent and directive of our Constitution are bound by patriotic duty to determine the legal status of any citizen running for the Presidency of the United States; such determination of status having to do with a requirement that said citizen must be a natural born citizen. Mr. Obama should be required to present pertinent evidence that would allow a judge or qualified public official to determine if he is, or is not, a natural born citizen. It is a legal requirement.”

Mr. Berg sent this copy of Mr. Obama’s and the DNC’s response.

Update: http://www.nextgenerationcorp.com/NextGenBlog/?p=66

It appears that Mr. Obama is trying to stall the matter. The outstanding issue is Mr. Obama’s birth certificate (Certificate of Live Birth). It appears that so far he has obfuscated this issue as well by providing, or having his agents provide, a false certificate of birth for publication.

But to Mr. Obama’s determent, the people of the United States of America demand that he (Mr. Obama) remove himself from eligibility to run for any political office for which he is not qualified and/or for which he (Mr. Obama) will not publicly present authoritative qualification for his candidacy as required by the Constitution of the United States of America.

God bless.

Sep 27, 2008 - 1:32 pm 192. Stepan:

I didn’t even watch the debate and I can tell you how it went:

John McCain is a real American war hero. His views are eclectic, but genuine.

Barack Hussein Obama is a media hologram/Karl Marx wannabe. He has written two biographies about himself.

These differences are real, palpable, and will tell in the end.

From the land of the Chinese Communists–

Sep 27, 2008 - 1:33 pm 193. CB:

McCain clearly showed that he has a handle on the past, present, and future. He understands that you can’t always tell everyone what you’re thinking, i.e. Pakistan. McCain showed leadership and handled himself in a presidential manner as Obama squirmed, and used his arrogant smirks when Senator McCain made valid points. Obaman proved that he couldn’t handle a fellow American while in a debate, imagine him in a diplomatic situation?
Excellent job by Senator McCain, and an expected below the mark showing for Senator Obama!

Sep 27, 2008 - 1:52 pm 194. Marina:

Reading some comments from the Keith Olberman’s Arm Society I came to a conclusion: there must be a “Special Edition” Version of the debate (CNN director’s cut?), where McCain is represented as “Obama” and vice versa. I have watched exactly the same debate but seen just the opposite to what the trolls have. Will MSNBC distribute it on DVD?

Hey, trolls, be very carefull on the 4th of November! The guy with REAL PLANS was McCain! Obama is “that other guy” – Paris Hilton, although “clean and articulated” – Joe Biden, but an empty suit – all the sane people. Remember: the young, lost and clueless is Obama. Repeat: O-BA-MA!

Sep 27, 2008 - 2:11 pm 195. Elaine:

Watched the debate and will tell you how it went. McCain never looked at Barack Obama during the whole debate. Hard to look at someone when you lie. Quoted history and rhetoric. Told us he would only spend money on the military and nothing else. Has no plans on being diplomatic to the rest of the world. If he can’t even look at a fellow American on stage during a debate, how can he see what a leader of another country has in his eyes. Palin refusing to comment on the debate was to be expected. They don’t want her to talk, just stand there and look pretty.

Sep 27, 2008 - 2:29 pm 196. MD voter:

Wish voters would get over the politic theatrics/polish and go back to what these guys represent in terms of ideology because that’s what they’ll fall back on after the campaigning ends and their administration begins.

I’m a practical person; I like to think I can be reasoned with. I’d like to see each candidate hold up a 24″ x 36″ piece of poster board (a bit like ross perot style) at the next debate on economics. It’ll say “this” is how much I’m going to spend over the next 4 years and “this” is going to be how much I’ll save or cut. Make the candidates defend their plans to us and let them field shots from each other, and no canned stump speech malarkie we’ve heard all year. Simple ground rule: If you don’t put a dollar figure to something, you can’t “promise” it to us.

Who do you think would win a debate using that format?

Sep 27, 2008 - 2:51 pm 197. HRPKathy:

If you want a purely mathematical and objective analysis of the debate last night – there’s an indicator right here on this page – when people are unintentionally tipping their hands. The quality of the Obama’s performance can best be assessed as the inverse proportion of trolls on any given topic thread. Since this topic brought down a virtual deluge of them, it means they really think Obama did lousy, and are spinning Rumplestiltskin straw into gold.

Think about it – when they don’t have to spin – they’re not here. It’s always entertaining to see someone claim to be independent and then spew only the leftmost political reasons for supporting Obama. Is the left really this vacuous? Oh sorry. Look at their candidate, of course they are.

From the looks of this thread, McCain did very well indeed.

It reminds me of Monty Python – “Come back and fight like a man! It’s only a flesh wound!” Translated: “Why didn’t McCain look him in the EYE?” LOL.

It wasn’t a knock out, but it definitely disallusioned Obama’s faithful.

Sep 27, 2008 - 2:52 pm 198. RE:

How can what one says in debate really be takne seriously? Everything in Obama’s past is either socialist (Ayers, Dohrn, Wright) or corrupt (CAC, Rezko, Johnson, Raines) – or both.

Besides McCain had the bracelet first. ‘Me Too!’ means you automatically lose for being a dweeb.

Sep 27, 2008 - 3:53 pm 199. CALIndie:

HRPKathy – “If you want a purely mathematical and objective analysis of the debate last night – there’s an indicator right here on this page – when people are unintentionally tipping their hands.”

“Come back and fight like a man! It’s only a flesh wound!” LOL!

We could take the mathematical calculation one step further. The number of trolls X the number of typical troll comments = “The Troll Factor.” For instance, if 35 trolls show up in the first 37 threads posted, the factor would be a percent to total of .95%.

We could then multiply this troll percent to total by a stupidity factor including but not limited to: The hate George Bush factor, blame America first factor, support evil dictators factor, liberal socialist factor, liars-cheats and cons factor, blind faith in the messiah factor, redistribute wealth factor, aid and comfort to the enemy factor and finally the Obama-Pelosi-Reid Unholy Trinity factor. 10 factors X the % to total troll thread posts = The Troll Factor (extended three decimal places). A .999 would be the worst of the worst (nobody’s perfect) like cedarford, proud elitist, jeff, javelin, dumbsh*t etc. Oops! That’s 666 upside down…YIKES!

Maybe CallMeIshmael is on to something… biblical prophecy displayed right before our very eyes! Creepy!

This “Troll Factor” would help our fledgling PJM readers easily separate the bullshite from the truth. BRILLIANT!

Sep 27, 2008 - 4:04 pm 200. CALIndie:

CallMeIshmael – Interesting analysis, very interesting. You know, there’s a rumor that the messiah (little m) has no Live Birth Certificate. Now we know there was only one virgin birth in history but isn’t the master plan of… SAAAAATAN the Deciever to hoodwink even the elect in the final days? If I had any hair it would be standing straight up right now! Your hypothesis has me on the edge of my financially devastated seat.

Lastly, with all the mystery, smoke, mirrors, shams, scams and flim flams surrounding THE ONE I will definitely be digging in to the eschatology of my Christian doctrine. Thank you, another truly intriguing query into the machinations of the messiah (little m)! It just keeps getting better and better.

P.S. Call Me Ishmael? Was Hagar your mother or is that a clever… no genius, play on words?

Sep 27, 2008 - 4:39 pm 201. Marc Malone:

CFbleachers, what you said. I’m for McCain, but I was disappointed. They were both terrible. There were so many openings, but John is not nimble in debates. He reverts to stump material, starts his sentences with ‘and’ or ‘but’, making them seem run-on.

Honestly, I had trouble staying awake. John’s policies seem okay, but he drones like a professor, and it seems he doesn’t really understad them, thus his lack of nimbleness.

Obama’s positions were just so full of holes, but independents couldn’t see them, because John didn’t point them out. Certainly, the media won’t.

(Sigh) I knew it would be a waste of time.

Sep 27, 2008 - 4:48 pm 202. schnargley:

Obama utterly annhilated MCain. His breathing and voice work were quite evident, as his voice resonated and projected itself with the sound of confidence His eye contact both reassuring and challenging. His identity and empathy skills were evident, and he appeared to have been well-practiced in the Outside-In Approach, and seemed to be quite well in touch with himself and his inner psyche. Only a few times did he look distracted from his personna and shaken, but easily overcame that with the laughing, smiling, head-shaking and interrupting. In all, he projected a feeling of assurance and knowledge to the audience, which seemed to have impressed many impressionable people, looking Presidential and capable, like the black actor running for President in the 24 series. He also reminded me of Denzel Washington, Morgan Freeman, and Lawrence Fishburne all together. This was no contest. This was William Hung vs. LaToya.

All the old man had were facts. Boooooooring!!!

Sep 27, 2008 - 4:51 pm 203. CALIndie:

schnargley – Well said! THE ONE put on a clinic in the fine art of oratorical divination. His command, and indeed mastery, of the silver tongue was only surpassed by his complete commitment to nuance. The facts… the lowly facts that the old man presented did not sway the young stallion in the least. If there was a little gold statue of a little gilded man it would surely be presented to THE ONE, our Barack, our Obama, our Hussein. It gives me shivers too!

Sep 27, 2008 - 5:09 pm 204. naguabo79:

Some people are saying that Obama will give a tax break to 95% of the population. Question: How is this possible if already more than 40% of the population does not pay taxes? It sounds good, but it is a deception.

Sep 27, 2008 - 5:34 pm 205. Jim Baker:

In my opinion, McCain won when Obama reached the stage. I hate everything that the World Community, Marxist, do-nothing SOB stands for. And I hate the kind of people who back him. I believe our founders hate them all, too. How is that for hate speech, folks.

Sep 27, 2008 - 5:40 pm 206. Thomas Jackson:

Obama’s closing remarks just about summed up everything that is wrong with the dhimmierats. He said there is something wrong with America that some how made it unattractive to foreigners and was unworthy of respect but that the annointed one would restore America to this spot of respect.

Now I might be unaware though I spent years living overseas, and foreigners love all things American, from Coke to Pizza Hut, Mikey Mouse to Playboy.

But the Left projects its own loathing of a nation that respects merit and achievement more than some utopian dogma that lives in academia.

It hates those whose faith occupies a central part of their existence and activities rather than a vacuum that is the central tennet of secularism, a vacuum that morphs into self loathing and then hatred of any value or tradition not akin to theirs.

Obama’s elitism was on display for all to see. Using “John” to a man older and of a different generation was an intentional slight, but only suceeded in making Obama look like the spoiled elitist he is.

A mile wide and an inch deep. He lost in a massive way, failing to remember the name of the soldier whose name graced the bracelet he wore. But he did nevertheless do the old I wear a bracelet too.

Yes I recall him calling the troops cannon folder and accusing them of killing randomly and wantonly.

He is just a third rate associate at a fourth rate law firm. I think his political career will resemble those of Kennedy and Kerry. Fringe lunatics elected by states where there is something really, really odd in the water.

Sep 27, 2008 - 5:49 pm 207. T.:

McCain was dominant last night. He IS The Commander-In-Chief. We need him.

Sep 27, 2008 - 5:52 pm 208. Angry African:

It is interesting how people can vote for someone wo helped sink the economy and go into a senseless war. And he is ready for some more. Still don’t have an answer on the economy and still want more war (bomb, bomb, bomb, Iran). I used to ask whether these people are just stupid. Now I know it is a stupid question. The answer is yes. So make you choice and live with it, pay up the next $700 billion+ and shut the f*ck up. You just lost your right to b*tch. Once is a mistake, twice is stupid, three? Well, you pick what to call it.
http://angryafrican.net/2008/09/27/actually-you-are-a-stupid-twit/

Sep 27, 2008 - 6:00 pm 209. T.:

As for the Critique of Obama:

Its Like An Acting Class Critique.

All The Hollywood TV People Kept Saying:

Great Eye Contact…Great Presentation… Good Make-Up…He Looked Right Into The Camera…He Played Right Into The Camera And The Audience…He Was Tall, Dark, Handsome, Charismatic…The Taller Candidate Usually Wins…But NO SUBSTANCE!

McCain was clearly the Dominant One With The Issues Last Night.

Wake Up People, Before Its Too Late:

This Is Not An Audition For The Next Big Film….This Is An Election For The Next President Who Knows How To Secure OUR COUNTRY, OUR LIVES…

Right now our focus and priorities should be on Homeland Security and Defense and War. Wake Up, There are many wars & genocides going on around the world.

If We Don’t Have SECURITY, then We Won’t Have A Country…then none of us will have to worry about our economy.

McCain is the Commander-In-Chief Just Like The Men Who Invented This Country and Democracy.

Let’s Not Throw It Away Because Someone Has Charisma…Come On, Now!

Sep 27, 2008 - 6:02 pm 210. T.:

BTW…I’d Rather Have An OLDER, WISER, MUCH MORE EXPERIENCED “OLD MAN” Planning Important Jobs, Especially War & Homeland Security Than A Fresh Young Sprout.

When I go to have surgery or complex medical treatment, the older doctors are MUCH BETTER. The Young Doctors end up screwing something up!

Obama is cute and charismatic, but this just doesn’t cut it. It will never do for the big jobs.

THE OLDER, THE BETTER. Especially for Important Issues.

Sep 27, 2008 - 6:08 pm 211. RV:

McCain did well, Obama did well, the people most arguing about all of this are purely partisan idividuals whose vote had no chance of being swayed.

The real loser after all of this is Palin. For these two to get up, articulate their positions, and actually answer questions with a high degree of intelligent thought, she has a tremendous amount of work ahead of her. There was no way she could have held her own against either candidate last night, they were both pretty ok.

On another note, the “he argeed with him umpteen times!” is by and far the dumbest arguement from the debate. Holy crap people there are some things that are just plain true, and oh my goodness! they argee on them.

McCain: We need to cut wasteful spending.

Obama: John is absolutley right that we need to cut wasteful spending

Morons: Oh my God! Did you see that? He agreed with him! What a loser, argreeing with McCain.

Dumb. Dumb. Dumb.

Sep 27, 2008 - 6:14 pm 212. T.:

BTW…I Remember Back When Afghanistan Was Abandoned By The US Troops In The Middle Of A War.

The US Withdrew Their Troops Too Early.

Because They US Withdrew Troops Too Early From Afghanistan, Many Innocent Civilians Were Killed.

They Were Counting On US To Help Them!

As A Result, It Made People Of The Middle East Bitter With Us…They Saw The Innocent Being Injured & Killed…All The Suffering…On A Much More Larger Scale Than If The Troops Stayed.

Don’t Do This To The Innocent Civilians Of Iraq. We Are Helping Them.

I Didn’t Want The War In Iraq Either, But The Troops Are There And They’re Not Out To Purposely Kill Civilians (Even Though Civilians Do Get Caught In Crossfire). So God Bless The Troops and The Innocent Civilians.

You Can’t Start A War To Help People, And Then Pull Out Any Old Time When Charisma Man Says Pull Out. The Effects Will Be Too Devastating.

They Will Withdraw When They’re Ready To Leave. When The Job Is Finished. When The Iraqi’s Can Survive Again With Their New Democracy.

What? Obama Wants To Withdraw Troops Just Like That And Then Send Them Over To Afghanistan? Then What? Prematurely Pull Out Of Afghanistan Again? No Way.

No Way, NObama!

Obama Just Doesn’t Get It.

Sep 27, 2008 - 6:22 pm 213. CallMeIshmael:

CALIndie, the more I think of this guy addressing the masses in Europe and here at home, the more I an convinced he is Damien from “The Omen.” Of course it is a trick, one of Axelrod’s confections. He positions the teleprompter over Obama’s eye level so he’s always looking up as if over a sea of humanity – the messiah. I see that and I look for the fishes and loaves or at least wait to see him turn Coke into Pepsi. The Breck Girl only promised that Christopher Reeve would walk when he was elected. I half expect to see Obama restoring sight to the blind any day now.

The One also affects a sense of empathy by asking for medical help from the crowd when one of his accolytes faints. It’s like a scene from “Woodstock.” “Would the people climbing on the towers please come down. Those towers weren’t built to take that much weight. Thank you. Uh, there’s some bad acid going around so watch out for that. Could we get a doctor down in front of the stage? Looks like there’s a chick having a baby.”

Somehow I have the urge to run up to him and part his hair until I find the 666. This worship and adulation really is scary. All the dire implications surrounding his relationship to A.C.O.R.N. notwithstanding, there is something transcendentally unnerving about this guy. Anybody else notice that?

Incidentally, CallMeIshmael is how the narrator in Moby Dick introduces himself. We can talk about that sometime if you like.

Sep 27, 2008 - 6:26 pm 214. thegr8_1:

Great posts Chicago. The Obama clone on the Tonight Show Celebrity Jeopardy is more real than the Obama who was in the debate. Obama looked like a debate student who studied his books well.
Barack in the real world the answers are not in the back of the book. McCain has the real world experience for the job.
McCain looked in Putin’s eyes and saw KGB. Obama will look at Putin, Chavez or Alphabet Soup leader of Iran or is it I ran eyes and piss in his pants.

Sep 27, 2008 - 6:41 pm 215. BMoon:

The next time Obama, Biden, Reid or Dodd or some other Goebellian weasel says that the wrecking of our economy was due to Republican culture of deregulation, the nearest thinking person needs to literally throw something at them. When Zerobama said it last night, McCain should have calmly walked over to him, looked him in the eye, and started screaming in his lieing, smug little face, “WHAT THE F–K? WHAT THE F–KING F–K?”

Sep 27, 2008 - 7:35 pm 216. Just a voter:

Do you know why you want someone who knows and understands the past? So, they don’t repeat the mistakes in the past. Give me someone who knows what has happened in the past and is able to super-impose it over the events of today before the garbage the Obama spews. He obviously thinks we are dumb to fall for his act.

Obama absolutely blew it when he referred to a bracelet that he wore (which I bet he put on just before going on stage and wanted to make sure he had a prop) but could not remember the brave soul who died. What a lightweight!

The guy is tied to all kinds of corrupt dealings, but you won’t find any of it in MSM. They are so in the tank for Obama. Probably because their moral compass is as far off as Obama’s.

Sep 27, 2008 - 7:44 pm 217. ehunter:

BRAVO CAL INDIE!
You have Obama pegged perfectly. He is an ACTOR…a CELEBRITY.
He is a chameleon of the poltical world. He mimes the surfaces of
reality, and no one seems to notice anything is missing. But reality exists nevertheless, and its precisely reality itself that will catch
Obama without a script, a cute phrase, a charming face or gesture that will get him over.

Sep 27, 2008 - 7:53 pm 218. HRPKathy:

CalIndie,
The purpose of a mathematic formula is to take the subjective analysis out of it, although those other troll factors are interesting, it is a mathmetician’s forte to simply, not to complicate. However, the troll thing is not a multiplicative function, rather a logarithmic one. And as the number of trolls increasing in the denominator makes Obama’s numbers drop precipitously, having additional stupidity factors (well that’s what they are) would further complicate a simple analysis.

Want to know how badly Obama did, just look at how much he needs spin and correlate that with the number of trolls. The quality of the spin – while subjective – falls under the stupidity factor. It’s a source of amazement for me that someone thinks ‘eye contact’ is an important factor when the economy is melting down. It should be lawful to slap those people.

CallMeIshmael,
You don’t know the half of it – gateway pundit and ace of spades are examining the perks in the $700bil bailout – with it’s ACORN allotment. Want to know why Obama is mum about his ACORN days? ACORN’s ex-lawyer Obama brought a groundbreaking lawsuit back in 1994 against a bank for discrimination against bad risk mortgage loans. It started there. Volokh also has examined the proposed bill and discovered that the housing fund structure would be a gargantuan loss for the taxpayer as Paulson/Pelosi devised it – which explains why McCain had to go back to DC to stop it. I can see why Franks was so upset – they were railroading a taxpayer funded democrat election slush fund with bailout money and were stopped.

Sep 27, 2008 - 7:57 pm 219. ehunter:

Hearken back to the Clintoon Years…the endless spin doctoring of every event to suit the popularity polls, the empty feelgood feelings
churned out by the Clintoon rhetorical machine. Slick imagery devoid of substance. A President playing at being President but unable to summon the slightest fortitude in America to face Al Queda or any other challenge.

Sep 27, 2008 - 8:08 pm 220. MD Voter:

Amendment to previous post on the economic debate wishlist, with respect to Jim Lehrer, also put an asterisk(*) on the programs you’d have to cut if “this sucker [economy] goes down”.

Sep 27, 2008 - 8:18 pm 221. Shah:

Lot of you seem to be really ignorant. You keep sayinf McCain won but if you look at the attack that were made and the way they defended themself against the attack it is very clear that Obama won. Their content was the same but McCain seem to lie and Obama stretched the truth a bit. I got some links you really need to visit.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/gradingthefirstpresidentialdebate

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/factchecking_debate_no_1.html

Sep 27, 2008 - 8:27 pm 222. Shah:

also many ppl are talking about Palin experiance as a mayor. I am not sure but from what i saw she left Wasilla from $1.12 million she inherrited to $24.8 million when she left. I dont know how old you guys are but Why should we have to take on the debt that you have left us. You have caused this nation to go in wars, trillions of dollar of debt, global warming, and really bad economy. I fear that McCain will die in office and we will be stuck with Palin and ahe will only make it worse. I fully support Obama because we can relate to him more and he cares about the things we will inherrit.

Sep 27, 2008 - 8:43 pm 223. Tim:

Geez, I’ve read most posts here, and no one has identified the real difference between Obama and McCain, it’s a difference of $830mil in earmarks!! WTF??

Look guys, McCain wasn’t most of our first pick, but last night he proved himself worthy…very worthy.

Obama was scripted and looked like he was straight out of a high school debating team….what a joke this clown is.

Sep 27, 2008 - 8:56 pm 224. AlexinCT:

Elain,

I guess the Obamabots have been told to go out and accuse the other side of lying so people are too busy defending themselves to point out how many lies Obama told. The lies all came from Obama and where plentiful. Let me just point out a few of the obvious whoppers. He never once warned about the problems at Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac and then postured as if he had. McCain did warn people but was beaten down by Franks & Dodd, Obama’s party mates. Obama’s assertion he warned the WH about Russia & Georgia was just another pathetic attempt to pretend he was not wrong on that one too. He lied about Iraq. He lied about his economic plans and their costs then proceeded to promise trillions in new spending to buy votes. He lied about not saying he would talk to our enemies unconditionally and bombing a nuclear armed ally. He lied about Kissinger agreeing with him on having the president meet with the Iranian nut jobs when he knew damn well that was bull. And his worst lie was he was a moderate. The man is as hardcore marxist as they come. And I am not stretching much when I point out you are here lying about who did the lying during the debate. You collectivists are driven by hatred and are practicing a scorched earth policy, but people are seeing through the rampant deception and ruthless propaganda.

Sep 27, 2008 - 9:38 pm 225. fred:

What does it say about our country when the media proclaims the debate as either a tie or that Obama was the more thoughtful and intellectual? And that many agree with this?

The fact that this guy Obama, a closet Marxist, has a realistic shot at being our next POTUS really should be a wake up call to how far the people have sunk into stupidity. That they cannot even recognize stupidity.

We are in trouble.

Sep 27, 2008 - 10:06 pm 226. Jeff:

This is just a fictional story that I have created to bring light to the time that we are in now —

Two men from the year 3000 decided to take their spacecraft on a trip back in time to learn the events of the past.

One man asked the other, “Steve, which part of history should we go back to?”
So Steve replied, ”Let’s go back to 2008, John. It was a very significant time in our history. This was the time when our country was at the crossroads of deciding our future and the end results of their decisions are what we are living with now. I heard that our country was at its most crucial time because it was economically crumbling at the core of its foundation.”
“Fair enough Steve, let’s go back to 2008,” John agreed.

So they both entered their spacecraft and took a trip back to 2008. Within light speed they zoomed across time going back to 2008 and soon appeared above The White House in Washington DC, up in the sky just hovering in stealth mode.

Steve turned to John and said, “Let’s turn on the screen and watch all the events of this time starting back from the day America was attacked on 9/11/01, John.”
So John turned on the screen and the two watched all of the events starting from 9/11 to the current year that they were in, which is 2008. While they were watching all of the events of 9/11, the Afghanistan War, and the events of the Iraq War up to the current time that they are at, which is November 4th of 2008. They paused the screen and looked at each other, just scratching their heads.

John looked at Steve and commented, “Steve, these events are devastating after 9/11. We went into Afghanistan which was right but everything shows that we had no reason to go into that other country called Iraq. There was so many of our soldiers and people that died in this carelessness.”
So Steve thought about it and replied, “It appears that you are right, John, but the people of America seem to stand with this President. Now let’s un-pause the screen and watch this 2008 election and the 4 years that follow this. Then we go back home.”

So John un-paused the screen and the two watched the 2008 election and the 4 years that followed this election and went back to their own time, which is the year 3000.

John looked at Steve and commented, “This trip gave me a new view of humanity, Steve. I don’t understand why we continue to make the same mistakes over and over again. That white man was just a continuation of that last President but our ancestors voted for him anyway because America could relate to him more. They voted for him because he looked similar to the majority of them but denied the other candidate simply because he looked different. Although that other candidate looked different, he seemed to want to help the country turn around. He seemed to look forward to the future and had futuristic ideas of not just transforming America for the better but creating a unity in the world. He seemed to be a man of the world and the world seemed to view him very favorably.”

So Steve answered, “I understand how you feel and I share the same sentiments, John. At that time in history, human mentalities had not transcended beyond fear of the different and the unknown. The human mentalities at that time had not transcended above and beyond the differences in color, creed, religion, and cultural backgrounds of this world. Because of this ignorance, our society is what it is today. It’s the year 3000 and wars are the only one thing that seems to be unable to evade humanity. Now, we are crumbling at our feet with all these wars all across the globe. We had a defining movement in history, John. We had a chance to open our minds and hearts to something different and something new, but we, as a collective, blew it. Now humanity is at an endless conflict and I fear that we are meeting our extinction. God help us all.”

Sep 27, 2008 - 10:21 pm 227. EBS:

WOW, obama is so cute when hes angry. no need for anymore debates, obama says just call me if you need me. lol or put me down for I AGREE WITH JOHN. what a clown

Sep 27, 2008 - 10:27 pm 228. Knights13:

“Their content was the same but McCain seem to lie and Obama stretched the truth a bit.”

I see how it is; when McCain lies then it’s a lie but when Obama lies it is stretching the truth.

Sep 27, 2008 - 10:56 pm 229. Christine:

God, I have never seen so many religious redneck Republicans under one forum in my whole entire life. Michael the poster was right, this country is flocked with these people who wants to impose their will on the rest of America.

I totally agree with Michael the poster that if we don’t exile these religious redneck Republicans into an island along with the fundamental Islamic terrorists, we are doomed in this country. We really don’t need their imposition and we don’t need 4 more years of McBush.

Sep 28, 2008 - 3:29 am 230. Who Won the Debate? « Blogs for McCain:

[...] Jennifer Rubin at Pajamas Media has an update on who won the debate. Possibly related posts: (automatically generated)Obama to scared to really debate… now we know [...]

Sep 28, 2008 - 3:59 am 231. Ed Wallis:

Poor “Jeff” (10:21pm),

Destined to spend the rest of his life copy/pasting “transcendental” nonsense in the ether….

For anyone who cares for a Sunday HA HA (don’t sip that coffee quite yet!),
go see “Jeff” bitterly clinging to R A C I S M and R E L A T I V I S M over at “The Ayers-Weatherman Terrorist Attack as it Might Have Happened” thread….

“Jeff”, your thinking is fraudulent, suicidal or possibly BOTH.

Sep 28, 2008 - 4:16 am 232. Ed Wallis:

Dear “Christine” 3:29am –

I’m not sure if you’re “totally” aware that, with your LET’S “exile these religious redneck Republicans into an island,” comment,

you place yourself right next to those who created concentration and death camps.

OBAMA’S “unity” = ELIMINATING ALL DISSENT. Confirmed here by “Christene.”

To be “generous”: your openly totalitarian intent is not good for America.

Sep 28, 2008 - 4:23 am 233. ReCon USMC:

dyward:

ReCon USMC:
______________________
Psss dyward Bra . More people have been Murdered on the Streets of Chicago (312 )100 % Liberal Governed …..than have died any kind of way in Iraq this year WHERE A REAL WAR IS FOR FREEDOM …. FREEING THE SLAVES .
That goes for Phila “all liberal “Governed as well with more Murders than deaths in Iraq .
It is safer in Iraq than in most Black Hoods .
17, 271 WERE MURDERED LAST YEAR IN AMERICA …..NOT AMERICAN TROOPS THAT HAVE DIED BUT BRA’S IN THE HOOD MOSTLY …. BLACK ON BLACK MURDER 95 % of the time .THAT IS WHAT YOU””SHOULD BE TALKING ABOUT !
OF COURSE IT HELPS WITH US TAX PAYERS SUPPORTING LIBERAL OBAMA WELFARE ADDICTIONS….. THAT IS WHY YOU LIKE HIM OBVIOUSLY .
_________________________________________________________________________

No actually I am one of those upperdy Negoes who make over the $250,000 mark and who also is dismayed with the rise in black on black murders. I also own my own business, own my own home and pay plenty of taxes. Oh, I also own my own car. I travel abroad frequently and I talk to people of all nations. I am in China as we speak. I am not blinded by the rhetoric of the new media. I work for myself and I think for myself. Your stereotyping is typical of republicans. They feel that white people are the only ones who work and pay taxes and all us black folk sit home on welfare. Why do they feel this way – the news media. So “my friend”, this election has brought a great deal to the surface of America. I will be OK – no matter who is elected, but I am smart enough and compassionate enough to realize that it is more than about me. PS – don’t watch Fox news, it is affecting your brain.
________________
The you must watch BET TV SINCE BLACKS WILL VOTE BRAIN DEAD 95 % FOR OBAMA …..NOT RACISM BUT IF 50 % OF WHITES VOTES AGAINST OBAMA THAT IS RACISM ?B/S . FOX’S AUDIENCE BASE IS 38 % REPUBS AND 33% LIBERALS .
BET TV IS 99 % BLACK LIBERALS AND MSNBC IS 81 % LIBERALS ….AND YOUR STUPID POINT IS ? YOU ARE FACTLEST !
My “NUMBERS ” DIDN’T COME FROM FOX NEWS .THEY CALL FROM THE NATIONAL CENSUS REPORT .
SO YOUR AND ELITE NEGRO ….. BUT YOUR POINTS WERE NO MORE THAN STREET B/S YOU DIDN’T ADDRESS ON COMPARING DEATH IN IRAQ AND IN ONE CITY ON WELFARE AND LIBERAL GOVERNED BRA !

Sep 28, 2008 - 4:37 am 234. mac:

Christine:

Please, start some violence. Somebody will get suppressed, all right, but it won’t be the Right. They’ve got the guns, the training and the military. Check out the Spanish Civil War for the way it will end. If you’re lucky you’ll live close to a border so you won’t have to make such a long walk out of the country.

Sep 28, 2008 - 5:10 am 235. Phil Byler:

John McCain won the debate. He started out slowly, but as the debate progressed, he got stronger and stronger. By the middle of the debate, John McCain was clearly wininning. By the end of the debate, John McCain was handing Obama’s head to him.

Why ask what the press thinks? The left wing media will say what it can to help Obama. The more useful inquiry would be to analyze what Obama had to say amd see how his statements at the debate contradict earlier statements or reflect ill conidered positions. Whiel there are many, two come to mind. One, Obama said we need to give Iraq back its country; that means he views our troops as occupiers, not liberators who freed the Iraqi people first from Saddam’s murderous rule and then from the murderous terror of al Waeda in Iraq, and does not recognize that Iraq has its sovereignty, has democratically adopted a written Constitution and under that Constitution has democratically elected its leaders. Two, Obama said we were wrong to go into Iraq in the first place, contrary to almost all congressional Democrats who voted to authorize the use of force. Victor Davis Hanson oncce wrote about how those who take Obama’s posiiton need to justify it in terms of what Iraq would be like if Saddam were still in power. It is frightening: a nuclear Saddam whose Oil for Food corruption and general defiance of the U.N. enabled him to stockpile WMDs; a terrorist sponsoring Saddam between a terrorist sponsoring Iran and a terrorist sponsoring Syria; a murderous Saddam dictatorship internally in Iraq.

Sep 28, 2008 - 5:20 am 236. ehunter:

OBAMA WILL BE ELECTED EVENTUALLY
If not this Obama, another one very like him.
We are creating a demographic profile in this
country that makes it inevitable.
But in the meanwhile, while we still can, we need to fight back.

Sep 28, 2008 - 5:46 am 237. 888:

Elaine, you need to get some education. McCain said the military, veteran’s care and “entitlements” are where his spending plan will focus on. Do you know what entitlements are? Do you really think he’s only going to fund Defense when he has an obligation and a responsibility as President to continue existing domestic programs that are necessary to keep those who are “truly” in need and programs that warrant funding get their fair share?

Naivete knows no bounds, or maybe it’s ignorance.

Sep 28, 2008 - 6:05 am 238. Donnie Mac Leod:

One thing I learned. You American better have deep deep pockets because Obama thinks he can buy nations with billions of your dollars. Most every solution he offered to the world threats, is a sit down and exchange of financial help in the Billions to people that don’t like you folks that much. Have you folks considered how much money Iran , Somalia, North Korea and other countries are going to love using your money to increase the financial holdings an d military might of their hierarchy? And that type of spending doesn’t even include the big money he wants to fire at your domestic problems . That type of politics by Obama & his supporters, didn’t work in Chicago ,why would spending work on the world stage?

Sep 28, 2008 - 7:06 am 239. chicago:

Obama’s bracelet gaffe is busted! The family didn’t want him to wear the bracelet!

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/warner-todd-huston/2008/09/28/family-told-obama-not-wear-soldier-sons-bracelet-where-media

Shockingly, however, Madison resident Brian Jopek, the father of Ryan Jopek, the young soldier who tragically lost his life to a roadside bomb in 2006, recently said on a Wisconsin Public Radio show that his family had asked Barack Obama to stop wearing the bracelet with his son’s name on it. Yet Obama continues to do so despite the wishes of the family.

Everyone need to read this and forward the article to everyone they know, we know that the liberal media will ry to bury the story!

Sep 28, 2008 - 7:10 am 240. Paul Revere:

The Democrat Party a Criminal Enterprise
Friends of Angelo get new invitations — to a federal grand jury
Countrywide Mortgage CEO Angelo Mozilo offered sweetheart deals on loans to his “friends”, who just happened to be people who had oversight responsibilities on his business. People like Fannie Mae CEO/chair Jim Johnson, Senators Chris Dodd and Kent Conrad, and others got below-market-rate loans from Mozilo through a “Friends of Angelo” program at one of the main lenders at the heart of the subprime collapse. Now a federal grand jury wants to talk to Angelo’s circle of friends to determine whether indictments for corruption are in order:

Countrywide Financial Corp., the biggest U.S. mortgage lender, made large, previously undisclosed home loans to two additional executives of Fannie Mae, the government-chartered firm at the center of the U.S. credit crisis.

One of Countrywide’s previously undisclosed customers at Fannie was Jamie Gorelick, an influential Democratic Party figure whose $960,000 mortgage refinancing in 2003 was handled through a program reserved for influential figures and friends of Countrywide’s chief executive at the time, Angelo Mozilo. Ms. Gorelick was Fannie Mae’s vice chairman at the time.

Another Countrywide client was recently ousted Fannie Mae Chief Executive Daniel Mudd, though it isn’t clear whether he received special treatment on two $3 million mortgage refinancings he made when he was the company’s chief operating officer. …

Countrywide loans on preferential terms to influential figures are the subject of a federal grand jury investigation in Los Angeles, according to people involved in the inquiry. Prosecutors subpoenaed records of many of the so-called “Friends of Angelo” loans in August, lawyers and others familiar with the matter said. …

While Countrywide was developing a closer working relationship with Fannie Mae, the company also had created a special path to handle loan applications from influential figures. The “Friends of Angelo” program channeled loan applications from celebrities, public figures and sports stars — often singled out by Mr. Mozilo — to a department where the borrowers received special treatment, sometimes including lower interest rates and a reduction in fees.

It’s been a while since we’ve heard from Jamie Gorelick. The former 9/11 Commission panelist wound up being one of the focal points of the dot-connecting afterwards, as she pushed for further separation of law enforcement and intelligence efforts in the years prior to the 9/11 attacks, even while al-Qaeda attacked American embassies in Africa and the USS Cole. Now she turns up at Fannie Mae, taking the same kind of insider loans while having oversight responsibilities for the GSE and the manner in which its business got transacted with other firms, including Countrywide.

Gorelick claims she never knew she got preferential treatment. For that matter, Barack Obama’s campaign adviser Jim Johnson says the same thing. However, both got loans a full point lower than market value at the time, after going outside the normal channels to get their loans handled. Are we to believe that the CEO of Fannie Mae and a member of its board were completely ignorant of the going rate for residential loans at the time of their application? What business did they think they were in, anyway? The rate for residential loans is the center of Fannie Mae’s business.

The notion that they were ignorant of their preferential treatment insults both their intelligence and ours. I suspect that a federal grand jury will feel the same way if Gorelick and Johnson try to use that line in their testimony, assuming they don’t just take the Fifth when called.

Gorelick hasn’t had any role in the presidential campaigns, but Johnson has been a high-level adviser to Barack Obama — and still is. Chris Dodd has taken leadership on the bailout bill negotiations on Capitol Hill. With two Democrats this closely tied to a federal grand jury action, they’d better hope that the grand jury takes its time in assessing the evidence. This to me seems a lot more worthy of an investigation than a dismissal of a political appointee in Juneau.

Sep 28, 2008 - 7:56 am 241. AlexinCT:

Jeff,

I think your stupid story is full of bull. My bet is that if anyone could come back from the future they would be doing so to see when America avoided becoming a totalitatian collectivst state that then imploded and dragged the world into another dark age. If the alternative happened nobody would be allowed to travel in time for fear they might want to prevent the calamity that created their prison world.

Sep 28, 2008 - 8:01 am 242. Jeff:

Ed Wallis,

I am both glad and happy that you respond to all of my posts in this website. It is always an honor when someone is completely intimidated by you. I always look forward to your post to reply to mine whenever I make a post. It is a confirmation to me that I have done my part to offer the details correctly. The truth always hurt for the opposition and the only way that they can deal with it is with ridicule. So please don’t stop the ridicules to my posts. I would want you to continue. I would want all the folks that visit this website to see it. Thank you, Ed.

Sep 28, 2008 - 8:16 am 243. CALIndie:

HRPKathy – “It should be lawful to slap those people.”

Twice per month would suffice and make ‘em really, really hard… schhhhhhhlap. We could all carry a short length of willow branch to avoid damaging our hands! BRILLIANT!

I’m going to give Jeff the first official Troll Factor Score (TFS) of 900 (900/1000). Although he may deserve higher, we can’t start at the top. I’m confident that quickly determining the TFS for the slapworthy among us will allow us to rapidly ignore their thread postings in search of something meaningful and intelligent in the blogosphere. Rock On!

CallMeIshmael – Damien from the Omen? Yea, I see that too. Now if Barack changes Coke into Pepsi I may have to vote for him myself.

I completely forgot about the intro to Moby Dick (many moons ago). You had me traveling down the bibilical route. Although Call Me Ishmael does provide a clever twist regarding THE ONE and his “Muslim faith” …’er you mean your Christian faith (hint provided by George Stephanopoulos) Yea, I mean “my Christian faith.”

It seems to me that remembering whether you are a Christian or a Muslim is akin to remembering if your name is Barack or Gilligan… although you look like both.

Sep 28, 2008 - 8:51 am 244. CALIndie:

Ed Wallis – Troll Factor Score = 0-1000 of mindless drivel in troll post.

Current thread: Jeff – TFS 900 and trending upward!

Sep 28, 2008 - 9:06 am 245. Betsie:

What is the difference in Iran saying they would extinguish Israel and McCain saying he would extinguish North Korea? Doesn’t that make McCain just like the Iran’s president?

It’s what McCain loves most which is WAR, KILLING, FIGHTING, ANGER, HOSTILITY, NEGATIVITY. He thrives in that environment.

Sep 28, 2008 - 9:36 am 246. Believer:

Anyone who has not visited:

gatewaypundit.blogspot.com

needs to go there to see videos along with reporting on the issues we talk about here. Very informative site.

Devastating for Obama and the Dems.

The first is about ACORN getting money from the taypayer bailout of lending institutions. Absolutely disgusting – as one said this AM, it’s an “ugly, despicable” organization — closely tied to BO – he trained them and even argued as their lawyer for minorities to receive these loans that have bankrupted Fannie, etc. BO, along with Ayers, has funneled tens of thousands of dollars to them — they’re continually involved, indicted for voter fraud.

It infuriates me this goes on here in America. And it continues – aided, with our tax dollars!

Like some third world dictator, it seems little is out of bounds for BO — he wants power. And so do the people around him. Liars all.

Sep 28, 2008 - 9:43 am 247. CallMeIshmael:

CALIndie, Moby Dick is more than just an adventure novel. It is an antebellum (pre-Civil War) examination of race and hate (at the time) in America through the metaphor of the hunt for the Great White Whale. Ishmael is repulsed and afeared by his first meeting with Queequeg, a South Seas islander infidel (idol worshipping, headhunting non-Christian). During the course of their voyage in the Pequod they become fast friends. Queequeg even saves Ishmael’s life when Ishmael fights another sailor who attempts to multilate the semi-catatonic Queequeg who has decided to die after he cast the bones and they fore ordained his death.

Ahab is full of hate for the White Whale which itself hates all things human for hunting and brutalizing his species. Ahab has abandoned all Christian feeling out of his hatred for Moby Dick. It is this hatred which brings their little world (the Pequod) to its destruction. The men of the Pequod are drawn into this private battle, intoxicated by Ahab’s hate. Only Ishmael (who stands apart as Ishmael of the Bible did and Starbuck, seemingly the sole remaining Christian on the ship) remain immune to the intoxicating venom of Ahab’s hate. Starbuck thinks to murder Ahab but loses his nerve. The extent of Ahab’s abandonment of Christian charity and human feeling is underscored when he refuses to help the captain of the Rachel search for his lost son, taken by Moby Dick. There is a lot more to be said about this masterpiece of literature but in the end Ishmael, the sole survivor of the Pequod floats away on Queequeg’s coffin, saved by his friendship with a savage.

“…if we obey God, we must disobey ourselves; and it is in this disobeying ourselves, wherein the hardness of obeying God consists.” – Father Mapple, pastor of the Whaleman’s Chapel

“…for what is man that he should live out the lifetime of his God?” – Father Mapple

Today there is another White Whale and it is God Himself. And today’s Ahab, in the guise of the liberal elite has his harpoon poised to kill Him.

Sep 28, 2008 - 10:24 am 248. CALIndie:

CallMeIshmael – Which brings us full circle on the debate at hand. Well done.

Me thinks a fresh dose of Herman Melville may add perspective on human nature and God’s prevenient character, in light of the rough seas we find outselves in.

Sep 28, 2008 - 11:03 am 249. Christine:

Oh hey Ed,

Did I hit a nerve with my first religious redneck Republican? Are you a “huge” Mcbush trollie? It’s ok, not all of us are in line with McBush. Thanks but no thanks.

Sep 28, 2008 - 11:27 am 250. Anonymous:

So a liberal arts degree is a sign of intellectual inferiority, eh? Well Mr and Mrs
ScienTerrific America, when ever any scientist
stops looking in his microscope, or jotting
down data and says anything like “I believe..”
or “This is good..” or “Our country should do…” etc he or she is engaging in Philosophy
not Science, so we are immediately back on the home turf of those useless liberal arts majors
with their long boring books that never seem to produce anything, uh, well useful. I mean useful in the “real” sense..uh, that is nothing that you can own, or spend, or anything important like that.

Sep 28, 2008 - 4:08 pm 251. proamerica:

Obama won the debate according to most polls i have viewed. Republicans are grasping at straws to make him look bad. Taking Obama out of context in their ads. Its common sense. If Obama doesnt want to help out the middle class, then who does he want to help? The rich?? and if he is helping the rich, why are the republicans bashing him??? Common sense people. Vote MCcain and go broker.

Sep 28, 2008 - 7:47 pm 252. mee:

gosh I saw in Drudge where MSNBC’s poll was
80% from outside of USA…only 20% from within

can msnbc be more stupid than they are laughable….again “citizens of the world”

Sep 28, 2008 - 10:16 pm 253. mee:

paul revere: have you seen the video “FANNIE MAE CEO CALLS BLACK CAUCUS “FAMILY” in this from c-span 2005 ceo MUDD talks about $$$ troubles and MR. and MS.Obama are present as well as the black caucus another video from 2004 Armado Falcon is asking for “oversight” and Maxine Waters REV. Meeks and barney frank are all saying “baloney” all on you-tube great video called “burning down the house” also there

Sep 28, 2008 - 10:25 pm 254. imp:

Obama\’s statement was VERY IGNORANT AND UNINFORMED or just naieve as Russia would veto any resolution seeking to replace Russian peacekeepers with International peacekeepers!.

Obama on Georgia in the debate
“No. 1 is we have to have foresight and anticipate some of these problems. So back in April, I warned the administration that you had Russian peacekeepers in Georgian territory. That made no sense whatsoever.

And what we needed to do was replace them with international peacekeepers and a special envoy to resolve the crisis before it boiled over.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/09/the_first_presidential_debate.html

BUT
The United Nations Security Council (UNSC) is the branch of the United Nations charged with the maintenance of international peace and security. Its powers, outlined in the United Nations Charter, include the establishment of peacekeeping operations, the establishment of international sanctions, and the authorization for military action.[1] Its powers are exercised through United Nations Security Council Resolutions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UN_Security_Council#Role_of_the_Security_Council

The Security Council is charged with maintaining peace and security among countries. While other organs of the United Nations can only make ‘recommendations’ to member governments, the Security Council has the power to make binding decisions that member governments have agreed to carry out, under the terms of Charter Article 25.[6] The decisions of the Council are known as United Nations Security Council resolutions.
unacceptable to it

VETO POWER
Under Article 27 of the UN Charter, Security Council decisions on all substantive matters require the affirmative votes of nine members. A negative vote, or veto, by a permanent member prevents adoption of a proposal, even if it has received the required number of affirmative votes. Abstention is not regarded as a veto despite the wording of the Charter. Since the Security Council’s inception, China (ROC/PRC) has used its veto 6 times; France 18 times; Russia/USSR 122 times; the United Kingdom 32 times; and the United States 81 times. The majority of Russian/Soviet vetoes were in the first ten years of the Council’s existence. Since 1984, China (ROC/PRC) has vetoed three resolutions; France three; Russia/USSR four; the United Kingdom ten; and the United States 43.

Procedural matters are not subject to a veto, so the veto cannot be used to avoid discussion of an issue.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UN_Security_Council#Veto_power

Sep 28, 2008 - 11:23 pm 255. j. Barnett:

Who won the DEBATE?, NO ONE, this is a waste of ower time, a build up and a let down, what can they really say, your full of shit OBAMA, you are to JOHN, everyone wants to see OBAMA start acting like a man, wrong guy, his wife has the balls, not him, he just hangs on coat-tails and always sticks to one thing,”I DIDN”T VOTE FOR THE WAR”was you even at work OBAMA?, did you even listen, because if you listened like 20 yrs. of your church we are in deep shit with you baby.McCain, show us how your temper is, get mad, mad-cow McCain, shout it out JOHN, kiss my ass you lousy punk, BILL did, but then, oh we can’t have him, he’s nuts!!i bet JOHN has plenty to say, poor CINDY on the way home…, Obama has big ears because MaMa gets mad and pulls on them, you should had said this asshole…who won, we’ll see how the V.P. rate, after all everyone sees what ever they want to and then we talk about that for a month,talk..talk..and bull-shit walks……

Sep 29, 2008 - 9:36 am 256. mankin:

McCain seemed to come off as the stubborn old man who doesn’t listen and gets angry. Hes going to need to control that in the future.

Sep 29, 2008 - 1:07 pm 257. john:

Obama won the debate by far. did u see Obama trying to make eye contact and Mccain would try and avoid as much as possible looking straight in the eye at Obama, that to me speaks lauder than words. “How are you gonna win, when ur not right within”? sorry McCain, i would say see u soon, but not sure ur not gonna make it 4 years from now.

Sep 29, 2008 - 3:44 pm 258. W. GREEN:

I THOUGHT THE DEBATE WENT WELL
TO ME JOHN MCCAIN WAS A LITTLE SHARPER
HE HAD MY ATTENTION THE MOST..
A LOT OF PEOPLE THOUGHT THAT OBAMA WOULD DESTROY HIM,THIS WAS NOT THE CASE..
WE MUST FACE IT.. MR. MCCAIN IS BETTER SUITED RIGHT NOW TO RUN THE COUNTRY ,THERES JUST TOO MUCH GOING ON IN THE WORLD RIGHT NOW..
OBAMA WOULD BE GOOD PROBABLY 1 TERM DOWN THE ROAD..HE WILL BE A GOOD PRESIDENT IN THE FUTURE..
RIGHT NOW ITS MCAIN,HES THE MAN FOR NOW..
SARAH PALIN FITS GOOD IN THE VP ROLE..
SHE WOULD BE A GOOD PRESIDENT PROBABLY 1 TERM DOWN THE ROAD AS WELL AS OBAMA..

Sep 29, 2008 - 4:42 pm 259. Tom Garcia:

Mccain can not his answers straight unless he has them written on a tele prompter . You just have to love his answer about helping the folks with the mortgage mess , did he not read the package that he approved to bail out Wall street , Mccain that is not a new idea it’s in the PACKAGE … You know ” That one ” the one you signed on. WOW!!! thank god for Obama … clear and concise answers . I guess the most of the country agrees …OBAMA won hands down.

Oct 8, 2008 - 5:21 am 260. brooklyn:

Are you guys serious? If you take all of Mccains,” I can do that,” I understand,” and “my friends” you wouldn’t even have a debate. You are obvious republicans.

Oct 8, 2008 - 1:17 pm 261. jersey:

OBAMA was clear and confident, Mccain was beating a dead horse, his only line of the night was I’am not George Bush!! way too many smirks, eye rolling,and playing bully on the playground.

Oct 15, 2008 - 7:58 pm 262. Ahanna:

What can the old man do when he gets into power, American plz don’t make a mistakes by voting in McCain into to power. Obama is the right man and belive me, he will win. Change we need

Oct 15, 2008 - 11:18 pm 263. Dan Rust:

For one person’s perspective on how you can make a decision to support Obama AND vote for John McCain, see the YouTube video below:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpsdKUQ1nKA

Feel free to forward this to any “undecided” voters you know of. This will be a VERY close election and we need every single vote we can get. Demonizing Obama will get us a few votes (and also lose us at least a few votes) but I hope that a rational, positive thought process will persuade a few people who are still on the fence.

Regards, Dan

Oct 16, 2008 - 6:31 am

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