Comments on: Will George Mitchell Change U.S.-Israel Ties? http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/will-george-mitchell-change-us-israel-ties/ Fri, 27 Nov 2009 00:12:59 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Roddy Frankel http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/will-george-mitchell-change-us-israel-ties/comment-page-1/#comment-192945 Roddy Frankel Wed, 28 Jan 2009 03:14:39 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=44872#comment-192945 On the issue of settlements, Mr. Lasky correctly observes that "Not all settlers are religious." My question to him is: Why do you even bring this point up? Does the degree of Jewish observance somehow disqualify settlers from living in the disputed territories? If a resident of Maleh Adumim only goes to temple on Yom Kippur, is this considered too religious, or is it acceptable? If Jews want to live close to the Cave of Abraham in Hebron, should they be screened based on their affiliation with Orthodox, Conservative, or Reform branches of Judaism? Or do they need to renounce Judaism altogether? Whatever happened to the free market? If an Arab is willing to sell his land in the disputed territories to a Jew, and the transaction proceeds, then who are we to say that the Jewish purchaser is an "obstacle to peace," simply because he happens to pray every day? If a Muslim prays every day, do we hold that against him? It's time we all dropped these double standards. On the issue of settlements, Mr. Lasky correctly observes that “Not all settlers are religious.” My question to him is: Why do you even bring this point up? Does the degree of Jewish observance somehow disqualify settlers from living in the disputed territories? If a resident of Maleh Adumim only goes to temple on Yom Kippur, is this considered too religious, or is it acceptable? If Jews want to live close to the Cave of Abraham in Hebron, should they be screened based on their affiliation with Orthodox, Conservative, or Reform branches of Judaism? Or do they need to renounce Judaism altogether? Whatever happened to the free market? If an Arab is willing to sell his land in the disputed territories to a Jew, and the transaction proceeds, then who are we to say that the Jewish purchaser is an “obstacle to peace,” simply because he happens to pray every day? If a Muslim prays every day, do we hold that against him? It’s time we all dropped these double standards.

]]> By: Rajan http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/will-george-mitchell-change-us-israel-ties/comment-page-1/#comment-192694 Rajan Tue, 27 Jan 2009 15:53:33 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=44872#comment-192694 Barack Obama has exhibited his absolute incompetence and lack of perception in his foreign policy initiatives by appointing his own Middle East envoy, George Mitchell – an act which promptly undermines the status of Tony Blair who is already officiating as the Middle East mediator on behalf of the world community. What will be the role of Blair now? Is he expected to trail behind Mitchell holding his coat tails? It is such unilateral actions without consultations with other important nations or the UN taken by George W Bush which Obama himself was constantly railing against in his campaign speeches. Just because George Mitchell was successful (at least to the extent of halting temporarily the IRA terrorist outrages) in his role as the mediator in the Northern Ireland problem, there is no guarantee that he will make any similar headway in solving the Middle East crisis too. The obvious reason is that the similarity between the two issues stops with the involvement of ruthless militant groups in both of them in battling with a governmental authority. The Provisional IRA’s declared goal was to separate the Northern Ireland province from the British monarchy and merge it with the Irish Republic. But, the Irish government itself, over a period of time, got tired and sick of the IRA’s atrocities ostensibly on its behalf, renounced its own claim to the Northern Ireland and also totally disowned the terrorist outfit. Hence, the IRA was left as an orphan without any cause to fight for. It was, therefore, question of time before the IRA, hunted down as it was by both the British and the Irish governments, would eagerly opt for the terrorist analogue of Chapter 11 protection. George Mitchell joined the fray as a mediator at the most opportune moment when all the parties involved were hungering for a pause in hostilities and was, therefore, able to gobble up all the credit. It seems to have been forgotten that it was Tony Blair's key role as the British Prime Minister at that time which greatly facilitated George Mitchell's mediation effort. But, with the Palestinian problem, the situation is entirely different. To compare the Palestinian militants like the Hamas with the Provisional IRA is like comparing the cobra and the rattlesnake (not the usual comparing of oranges and apples!). The Palestinian militant is like the cobra and the Provisional IRA is like the rattlesnake. There are people in countries like India who worship the cobra as an incarnation of god. Similarly, the Palestinian guerrillas draw full support, both moral as well as material, not only from all Arab nations but also from other Muslim countries. On the other hand, the rattlesnake, as far as I know, has no devotees anywhereon the planet. Similarly, the IRA is now totally friendless. Even the maverick elements among the pub-crawling Irish community in New York, who once supported them financially, seem to have forsaken them now. When viewed against the above background, George Mitchell is not likely to score any home runs with the Palestinian problem any time soon. It is a thoughtless, undiplomatic and knee-jerk step for Barack Obama to have appointed him as a counterfoil to Tony Blair who was entrusted with the same task only a year ago by the Middle East Diplomatic Quartet, comprising the UN, the European Union, the Russian Federation and also the US. Barack Obama has exhibited his absolute incompetence and lack of perception in his foreign policy initiatives by appointing his own Middle East envoy, George Mitchell – an act which promptly undermines the status of Tony Blair who is already officiating as the Middle East mediator on behalf of the world community. What will be the role of Blair now? Is he expected to trail behind Mitchell holding his coat tails? It is such unilateral actions without consultations with other important nations or the UN taken by George W Bush which Obama himself was constantly railing against in his campaign speeches.

Just because George Mitchell was successful (at least to the extent of halting temporarily the IRA terrorist outrages) in his role as the mediator in the Northern Ireland problem, there is no guarantee that he will make any similar headway in solving the Middle East crisis too. The obvious reason is that the similarity between the two issues stops with the involvement of ruthless militant groups in both of them in battling with a governmental authority. The Provisional IRA’s declared goal was to separate the Northern Ireland province from the British monarchy and merge it with the Irish Republic. But, the Irish government itself, over a period of time, got tired and sick of the IRA’s atrocities ostensibly on its behalf, renounced its own claim to the Northern Ireland and also totally disowned the terrorist outfit. Hence, the IRA was left as an orphan without any cause to fight for. It was, therefore, question of time before the IRA, hunted down as it was by both the British and the Irish governments, would eagerly opt for the terrorist analogue of Chapter 11 protection. George Mitchell joined the fray as a mediator at the most opportune moment when all the parties involved were hungering for a pause in hostilities and was, therefore, able to gobble up all the credit. It seems to have been forgotten that it was Tony Blair’s key role as the British Prime Minister at that time which greatly facilitated George Mitchell’s mediation effort.

But, with the Palestinian problem, the situation is entirely different. To compare the Palestinian militants like the Hamas with the Provisional IRA is like comparing the cobra and the rattlesnake (not the usual comparing of oranges and apples!). The Palestinian militant is like the cobra and the Provisional IRA is like the rattlesnake. There are people in countries like India who worship the cobra as an incarnation of god. Similarly, the Palestinian guerrillas draw full support, both moral as well as material, not only from all Arab nations but also from other Muslim countries. On the other hand, the rattlesnake, as far as I know, has no devotees anywhereon the planet. Similarly, the IRA is now totally friendless. Even the maverick elements among the pub-crawling Irish community in New York, who once supported them financially, seem to have forsaken them now.

When viewed against the above background, George Mitchell is not likely to score any home runs with the Palestinian problem any time soon. It is a thoughtless, undiplomatic and knee-jerk step for Barack Obama to have appointed him as a counterfoil to Tony Blair who was entrusted with the same task only a year ago by the Middle East Diplomatic Quartet, comprising the UN, the European Union, the Russian Federation and also the US.

]]> By: David http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/will-george-mitchell-change-us-israel-ties/comment-page-1/#comment-192462 David Tue, 27 Jan 2009 00:09:16 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=44872#comment-192462 A very big difference between Northern Ireland and the Middle East was that the IRA realized that they were losing and decided to cut a deal which didn't give them any of their core objectives. The Palestinians have not got to that stage yet. A very big difference between Northern Ireland and the Middle East was that the IRA realized that they were losing and decided to cut a deal which didn’t give them any of their core objectives. The Palestinians have not got to that stage yet.

]]> By: Jillian http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/will-george-mitchell-change-us-israel-ties/comment-page-1/#comment-192354 Jillian Mon, 26 Jan 2009 20:18:57 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=44872#comment-192354 If one side in Ireland was dedicated to the extermination of the other like the Palestinians are, Mitchell wouldn't have succeeded there either If one side in Ireland was dedicated to the extermination of the other like the Palestinians are, Mitchell wouldn’t have succeeded there either

]]> By: Larry D. Crumbley http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/will-george-mitchell-change-us-israel-ties/comment-page-1/#comment-191725 Larry D. Crumbley Sun, 25 Jan 2009 12:29:43 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=44872#comment-191725 Hello, This is a "FUNNY" article, and here is why. Sec. of State Hillary Clinton if that is the name she is going with while she is on the job, well then she thinks that she is going to have any better luck, or whatever because she is Hillary, and her husband was Bill Clinton, and she deserves the job because she is more capable than Barry O', and the list goes on, and on, and on, if you know what I mean. Wait this just in Sec. of State admits to all that she has a hidden agenda, and that is that she wants real bad for Barry O' to screw up so bad that she can take over at mid-stream, and lead the country to a bright, sun-shiny day. Hip-Hip, Hooray for Hillary. LADIES AND GENTLEMEN LET ME BE VERY CLEAR THAT NO MATTER WHAT BARRY O' SAYS OR HIS PERSONAL LITTLE LAP-DOG HILLARY, IT HAS BEEN TRIED SEVERAL TIMES, AND NO MATTER WHO SHE MAKES SPECIAL ENVOYS TO WHATEVER AREA OF THE WORLD THERE WILL NEVER BE NO PEACE IN THE Middle-East BEFORE THE TIME OF THE SECOND COMING OF JESUS CHRIST, AND EVERY BELIEVER-(CHRISTIAN)-KNOWS THIS AND WE ARE FULLY AWARE OF THE TIME FRAME FOR ALL OF TO HAPPEN. SO WHAT DOES THAT MEAN FOR AMERICA, AND IT IS VERY CLEAR THAT ALL OF THIS MEANS THAT WE WILL BE BACK TO THE POLICES OF HER HUSBANDS ADMINISTRATION. WHICH WAS ONE OF FAILURE TO COME TO GRIPS WITH THE REALITY THAT ISRAEL WAS BEING SCREWED BY HIS ADMIN., AND THEY WERE NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANYMORE. SO SUMMARIZING THIS--SEC. OF STATE CLINTON'S IDEA OF "SMART-POWER" IS NOTHING MORE THAN WORDS FROM A WOMEN THAT IS NO MORE QUALIFIED FOR THE JOB THAT SHE WAS GIVEN THAN THE JOB THAT HER NEW BOSS WAS FOR THE JOB THAT HE, AND HIS CRONIES, AND ALL THE HENCHMEN IN THE SEN., AND THE HOUSE WERE FOR THE JOB THAT THEY GOT FROM ALL THE "IDIOTS" that voted for them this past election-cycle. Now smart=power that Madam Sec. You are about to fail, and you know it. May God have Mercy on us as a nation. For all of you that will follow you are about to get a huge lesson on what it takes to be a leader. Thank you, Larry D. Crumbley bearone7777@yahoo.com Hello,
This is a “FUNNY” article, and here is why. Sec. of State Hillary Clinton if that is the name she is going with while she is on the job, well then she thinks that she is going to have any better luck, or whatever because she is Hillary, and her husband was Bill Clinton, and she deserves the job because she is more capable than Barry O’, and the list goes on, and on, and on, if you know what I mean. Wait this just in Sec. of State admits to all that she has a hidden agenda, and that is that she wants real bad for Barry O’ to screw up so bad that she can take over at mid-stream, and lead the country to a bright, sun-shiny day. Hip-Hip, Hooray for Hillary. LADIES AND GENTLEMEN LET ME BE VERY CLEAR THAT NO MATTER WHAT BARRY O’ SAYS OR HIS PERSONAL LITTLE LAP-DOG HILLARY, IT HAS BEEN TRIED SEVERAL TIMES, AND NO MATTER WHO SHE MAKES SPECIAL ENVOYS TO WHATEVER AREA OF THE WORLD THERE WILL NEVER BE NO PEACE IN THE Middle-East BEFORE THE TIME OF THE SECOND COMING OF JESUS CHRIST, AND EVERY BELIEVER-(CHRISTIAN)-KNOWS THIS AND WE ARE FULLY AWARE OF THE TIME FRAME FOR ALL OF TO HAPPEN. SO WHAT DOES THAT MEAN FOR AMERICA, AND IT IS VERY CLEAR THAT ALL OF THIS MEANS THAT WE WILL BE BACK TO THE POLICES OF HER HUSBANDS ADMINISTRATION. WHICH WAS ONE OF FAILURE TO COME TO GRIPS WITH THE REALITY THAT ISRAEL WAS BEING SCREWED BY HIS ADMIN., AND THEY WERE NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANYMORE. SO SUMMARIZING THIS–SEC. OF STATE CLINTON’S IDEA OF “SMART-POWER” IS NOTHING MORE THAN WORDS FROM A WOMEN THAT IS NO MORE QUALIFIED FOR THE JOB THAT SHE WAS GIVEN THAN THE JOB THAT HER NEW BOSS WAS FOR THE JOB THAT HE, AND HIS CRONIES, AND ALL THE HENCHMEN IN THE SEN., AND THE HOUSE WERE FOR THE JOB THAT THEY GOT FROM ALL THE “IDIOTS” that voted for them this past election-cycle. Now smart=power that Madam Sec. You are about to fail, and you know it. May God have Mercy on us as a nation. For all of you that will follow you are about to get a huge lesson on what it takes to be a leader.

Thank you,
Larry D. Crumbley
bearone7777@yahoo.com

]]> By: David P http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/will-george-mitchell-change-us-israel-ties/comment-page-1/#comment-191694 David P Sun, 25 Jan 2009 09:38:32 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=44872#comment-191694 Mitchell will be in for an awakening if he assumes he can pick up where Clinton left off in 2000. February elections will reflect a decisively hawkish position among Israeli's whose memories are fresh from the bloodshed caused by previous peace concessions. Mitchell will be in for an awakening if he assumes he can pick up where Clinton left off in 2000. February elections will reflect a decisively hawkish position among Israeli’s whose memories are fresh from the bloodshed caused by previous peace concessions.

]]> By: Oscar the Grump http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/will-george-mitchell-change-us-israel-ties/comment-page-1/#comment-191590 Oscar the Grump Sun, 25 Jan 2009 02:37:48 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=44872#comment-191590 There is a real danger in isolating Israel. A really desperate Israel could be a really dangerous Israel. It won't let itself cease to exist. Its people have faced overwhelming odds before and always come out on top. They will do all that is necessary to survive. What else would isolating Israel do? Cutting Israel off of US arms would also eliminate US influence. Its potential effect would be as follows. On a short term, Israel would seek arms elsewhere taking with it its vast technical knowledge. It would benefit a newly reemerging Russia and growing China. Within five years Israel would be totally self sufficient in arms production. Be assured Israel could produce a world class stealth fighter within two years. Another major point to consider is that Israel is the major counterbalancing force in the Middle East. As Iran grows in power and influence, Israel is the only military force that could possibly stop them. Do we as a nation want to give up our trump card in that game. There is a real danger in isolating Israel.

A really desperate Israel could be a really dangerous Israel. It won’t let itself cease to exist. Its people have faced overwhelming odds before and always come out on top. They will do all that is necessary to survive.

What else would isolating Israel do? Cutting Israel off of US arms would also eliminate US influence. Its potential effect would be as follows. On a short term, Israel would seek arms elsewhere taking with it its vast technical knowledge. It would benefit a newly reemerging Russia and growing China. Within five years Israel would be totally self sufficient in arms production. Be assured Israel could produce a world class stealth fighter within two years.

Another major point to consider is that Israel is the major counterbalancing force in the Middle East. As Iran grows in power and influence, Israel is the only military force that could possibly stop them. Do we as a nation want to give up our trump card in that game.

]]> By: don http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/will-george-mitchell-change-us-israel-ties/comment-page-1/#comment-191391 don Sat, 24 Jan 2009 16:24:07 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=44872#comment-191391 How do you negotiate with a group who's core philosophy involves the mass murder/extermination of it's opponents? I'm sure "even handedness" would have worked perfectly well with the Nazis (the well from which the radicalized Salafist heresy draws it's inspiration). After all look how well Chamberlain's actions worked. The really funny comment came from lgkick . . . "mass killing of innocent civilians" . . . For Hamas there are no "Innocent" civilians, firing unguided missiles in a cardinal direction is not a tactic, it is a criminal act and betrays the value Hamas places on civilians in general and Israeli citizens in particular. The only "negotiations" Hamas will honestly adhere to are those flowing from the barrel of Israeli Galils. So I ask you, how do you "negotiate" with someone with good faith intent when your opponent is strictly seeking an opportunity to kill you and exterminate your people? All I can think about lgkick's comments is this is the result of a diet composed of the politically compromised pap most of the media distribute as news. How do you negotiate with a group who’s core philosophy involves the mass murder/extermination of it’s opponents? I’m sure “even handedness” would have worked perfectly well with the Nazis (the well from which the radicalized Salafist heresy draws it’s inspiration). After all look how well Chamberlain’s actions worked. The really funny comment came from lgkick . . . “mass killing of innocent civilians” . . . For Hamas there are no “Innocent” civilians, firing unguided missiles in a cardinal direction is not a tactic, it is a criminal act and betrays the value Hamas places on civilians in general and Israeli citizens in particular. The only “negotiations” Hamas will honestly adhere to are those flowing from the barrel of Israeli Galils. So I ask you, how do you “negotiate” with someone with good faith intent when your opponent is strictly seeking an opportunity to kill you and exterminate your people?

All I can think about lgkick’s comments is this is the result of a diet composed of the politically compromised pap most of the media distribute as news.

]]> By: fred lapides http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/will-george-mitchell-change-us-israel-ties/comment-page-1/#comment-191303 fred lapides Sat, 24 Jan 2009 13:04:34 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=44872#comment-191303 Why not stop bad mouthing the guyh till such time as he sp[ends some time trying to accomplish something? After all, What had Rice/Bush done over the past years? In fact, things are already beginning to change: http://www.debka.com/headline.php?hid=5870 Iran got its first slap in the face under Obama! as for the Palestinians: The Economist (this week) as well as the Palestinian reporter placed inside Gaza both report that many in Gaza blame Hamas for the troubles there but are being silenced by Hamas...Hamas at this point needs to control Gaza and hopes to win over West Bank too so they may well change policy. In sum: slow down in your attempt to badmouth the new leadership in this nation, a chance wrought after all because the vast majority of Americans no longer would support what the GOP has done over the recent years. Why not stop bad mouthing the guyh till such time as he sp[ends some time trying to accomplish something? After all, What had Rice/Bush done over the past years? In fact, things are already beginning to change:
http://www.debka.com/headline.php?hid=5870

Iran got its first slap in the face under Obama!

as for the Palestinians: The Economist (this week) as well as the Palestinian reporter placed inside Gaza both report that many in Gaza blame Hamas for the troubles there but are being silenced by Hamas…Hamas at this point needs to control Gaza and hopes to win over West Bank too so they may well change policy.

In sum: slow down in your attempt to badmouth the new leadership in this nation, a chance wrought after all because the vast majority of Americans no longer would support what the GOP has done over the recent years.

]]> By: SAF http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/will-george-mitchell-change-us-israel-ties/comment-page-1/#comment-191217 SAF Sat, 24 Jan 2009 06:14:20 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=44872#comment-191217 Lets consider: Mitchell is a smart man. He must realize the Palestinian position is cast in concrete. We know he has a healthy ego and didn't take this job if he knew it was a sure looser. Why bother? He's a wealthy man doesn't need the work. So he has either has an angle or it is complete hubris on his part that he can do something. Perhaps his true mission is to force Israel into a corner that they must buy their armaments from us instead of getting military grants. We certainly could use the dough. He certainly need not worry about the Jewish vote in the states as they will vote democratic even if Obama where to bomb Tel Aviv. The other possibility is that the wheels have been put in motion to actual stop weapons from flowing into Gaza. So if the US and other countries live up to their commitments to keep Gaza a missile free zone the Israelis might actual start trade with Gaza. Keeping the place from erupting into war is as simple as keeping Hamas from firing missiles into Israel proper. Perhaps Mitchell enforces this and forces trade as well. What ever bias he has he is a smart dude. We'll know soon enough. Lets consider: Mitchell is a smart man. He must realize the Palestinian position is cast in concrete. We know he has a healthy ego and didn’t take this job if he knew it was a sure looser. Why bother? He’s a wealthy man doesn’t need the work. So he has either has an angle or it is complete hubris on his part that he can do something.

Perhaps his true mission is to force Israel into a corner that they must buy their armaments from us instead of getting military grants. We certainly could use the dough.

He certainly need not worry about the Jewish vote in the states as they will vote democratic even if Obama where to bomb Tel Aviv.

The other possibility is that the wheels have been put in motion to actual stop weapons from flowing into Gaza. So if the US and other countries live up to their commitments to keep Gaza a missile free zone the Israelis might actual start trade with Gaza.

Keeping the place from erupting into war is as simple as keeping Hamas from firing missiles into Israel proper. Perhaps Mitchell enforces this and forces trade as well.

What ever bias he has he is a smart dude. We’ll know soon enough.

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