Will the Real Che Guevara Please Stand Up?
Steven Soderbergh's film Che is nothing more than a $60 million whitewash of the truth.
In the movie Che, Puerto Rican actor Benicio del Toro plays an Argentine thrill seeker-cum-murderer who helped turn Cuba into a Stalinist state. That Argentine was Ernesto Guevara de la Serna, better known as “Che.” The movie is actually two films that total just under four and a half hours. Yet despite those 263 minutes of celluloid, important aspects of Guevara’s personality and deeds are omitted. Things like, you know, the truth.
You may not even know who Che Guevara was, but you’ve probably seen his face on a t-shirt. He’s that ragged, bearded guy with a faraway look in his eyes and a beret on his head. More than likely you’ve seen that t-shirt on a college campus or in a European or Latin American gift shop. It’s the ultimate irony because Guevara was a consummate anti-capitalist. There’s a bit of poetic justice when a man who indiscriminately killed others in order to impose a system devoid of capitalism is now the world’s greatest t-shirt salesman.
Unfortunately, Guevara is also venerated in Hollywood, thus explaining the reported $60 million cost to make Steven Soderbergh’s bore fest of a hagiography. The cop-out used by Soderbergh and del Toro to justify this marathon of an abomination is that it’s the story of a “complex” historical figure living in “complex” times; his desired ends justified what are normally unjustifiable means. Yet since the film’s opening on December 12, 2008, to date it has recovered a measly $922,347 in the U.S. As such, the movie Che bears one important similarity to the real Che; it’s highly celebrated by some even though it’s a complete failure.
Despite the considerable mythology built up around his image, the real Guevara was a bumbler who never accomplished anything except as Fidel Castro’s wing man and executioner during the Cuban insurrection of the late 50s. Even there, the Castro propaganda machine embellished his greatest “victory.” Guevara’s lackluster record began as a young man when he enrolled in medical school. Historians can find no concrete evidence of him ever obtaining a degree and he certainly never practiced medicine. One of Guevara’s fellow rebels who fought alongside him told me Guevara only had a cursory knowledge of medicine. When Castro came to power in 1959, Guevara made a fool of himself as Cuba’s “economics minister.” Later, Guevara failed dismally in his attempts to launch insurrections in the Congo and Bolivia, where he ultimately met his demise in 1967. Guevara was also, by all accounts, a lousy husband and father.
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Henry Louis Gomez is Cuban-American and blogs at BabaluBlog.com.
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82 Comments
1. gboisjo:The less you know about Hollywood actors politics the better. What makes people like the actor Sean Penn tick is a Southern California way to the left Hollywood thing that goes way beyond ugly. Having said that he is a good actor and has made some great movies. Del Toro has as well.
Feb 7, 2009 - 3:20 am 2. Blackwater:Stuff like this is why I switched from being an ultra-liberal to a life long and very staunch Republican a few years ago. It’s disturbing how brainwashed I and other liberals were. I never was extreme enough to support militant communists like Che though and I was pretty damn far to the left. So the people that do worship Che actually scare me they’re so lost. Liberalism kind of operates like a circle. It’s great when it first starts out (right to vote for women and minorities) but then it passes a point where it starts to go back in on itself and reverses direction. And that’s where liberalism is at these last few decades. It now defends the indefensible. It now defends the right of muslims to deny rights to women and freedom of expression when it started out fighting those evils.
Feb 7, 2009 - 4:18 am 3. Bob Urschel:Guevara was an earlier version of the sick, sadistic thugs we’ve been eliminating since 9/11. To glorify this “thing” is to glorify devil worship. Our Air Force unit in Panama in 1967 was peripherally involved in concluding this lowlife while working with the military arms of several countries in Central and South America. I assure you, it was a celebratory day for all concerned in the chase when this guy was terminated. A close analogy would be eliminating a plague-carrying rat.
Feb 7, 2009 - 4:34 am 4. Terry O'Donnell:Acting requires the suspension of one’s own thinking to allow for the absorbtion of the character. It is understandable for actors to continue this suspension of thought into their own lives. What is not acceptable would be for non-actors to take actor’s thoughts into consideration of real life. Beyond the fact that they have zero expertise, they don’t even use their own mental capacity for thought. Their minds are just too mushy.
Feb 7, 2009 - 5:13 am 5. happy1ga:Why waste money on Hollywood and the ignorance that dwells there? If you continue to fund them, by paying to see their horrible movie, then that is what you will get. Just say no to Hollywood. They will start to get it, if Americans don’t pay for garbage.
Feb 7, 2009 - 5:21 am 6. Frank Hawkins:This is another example of Hollywood’s cocaine sniffers trying to make a buck through historical fraud or caught up in their own drug-induced fantasies about the way the world really is. The damage to our culture and civilization is the impact these kinds of films have on our young people who have no way of really knowing the truth. Because it is shown in the movies, they tend to accept what they see as fact. Civilizations are ultimately weakened from cancer that breeds from within. This is one tiny example of that, a drop seeping through the dam. It’s ultimately a much bigger and more severe issue than “artistic freedom.”
Feb 7, 2009 - 5:27 am 7. fuad:the incessant hate machine against che shows the guy must have done something to irk the cabal
Feb 7, 2009 - 5:31 am 8. Frank Hawkins:Fuad, yeah, he murdered a lot of people in cold blood. Direct personal executions, no jury, no trial, just a big shot and big mouth with a gun and no compassion for other human beings. Sounds like that didn’t bother you much.
Feb 7, 2009 - 5:37 am 9. Denise, FL:Oh the irony of it all. It’s quite obvious misguided H’wood elite were banking on making a profit on the back of a murderer who wanted nothing to do with capitalism, moreover most of Che’s modern day constituents can’t afford or are willing to spend money on a movie about the faux hero.
Besides Obama is their new Lord now, Che is so 1959.
Feb 7, 2009 - 5:39 am 10. Scott:Like to see Benecio debate a real Cuban actor…Andy Garcia
Feb 7, 2009 - 6:49 am 11. RW:What is it in the “liberal” left that the can’t find it to criticize butchers like Che and Castro? Decades back it was Stalin. Remember when I did some work in college in acting and the play was written by a teacher. We got into a discussion on Hitler’s pact with Stalin and he was in absolute denial to acknowledge the alliance and its impact.
Guess that had been a decades old argument with the Left and here it was in the 80s and this guy couldn’t bear to say a bad word about Stalin.
Look into their souls and you will see they are empty. And the empty vessel is most able to embrace evil.
Feb 7, 2009 - 6:50 am 12. zimmy:Leftists prefer to ‘feel’ their truth rather than look at the facts in an objective manner. With liberals, truth is relative; it’s feel-good and that’s what counts.
Feb 7, 2009 - 6:51 am 13. vb:My new t-shirt suggestion: Front, “What would Che do with prisoners on Cuba?”, Back, show some actual pictures.
Feb 7, 2009 - 7:08 am 14. AlexinCT:Hollywood has become an agent of leftist ideological lies. They have made it an art of shamelessly rewriting facts to favor their cause. Basically they are now in the business of making evil look good, and vice versa. I hope this film bombs hard and cuases them all a world of hurt. The way to stop Hollywood is to hit them in the wallet.
Feb 7, 2009 - 7:15 am 15. D. Papaccio:Have you ever noticed that all the socialist revolutionaries, from Marx to Che to bin Laden, were trust fund brats, born into wealth and having way too much time on their hands? Is there a theme here??
Feb 7, 2009 - 7:55 am 16. Mark, the evil American:There’s been much analysis of what makes Hollywood and other westerners support communist ideologs like Guavara without having any intention of living under the systems they preach for. I think of Danny Glover hugging Hugo Chavez on a Venezuelean stage for all the world to see completely unabashed. Then, hours later, he’s back in his mansion in the “Great Satan.” The juxtoposition of what these western communist supporters say and what they do is astounding, yet no one but a few “exiled” journalists take them to task on it. In my view the Danny Glovers and Sean Penns of the world are no different from the Ted Haggards and Mark Foleys. They are hypocrites. Nothing in my opinion diminishes a person’s worth more than being a hypocrite. If I could meet just one, JUST ONE, western communist supporter who actually has moved to Cuba, Venezuela or North Korea, then I could respect him, and would be interested in his views. But how can we take seriously people who advocate for communism while living the most luxurious lives on the planet inside the belly of the beast itself?
Feb 7, 2009 - 8:08 am 17. James:I AM APPALLED! Che was a true revolutionary who put his very life on the line to advance the valiant cause of worker’s rights! How can anyone bash this great man? Because of Che Cubans enjoy free health care. Free! Americans have to pay for health care. So I ask, what is the better system, huh?
Feb 7, 2009 - 8:21 am 18. Mario:I live in a very left wing neighborhood in Chicago. It’s comprised mostly of homosexuals and American-born and Eastern European-born Jews. A few years ago I was walking down the street while wearing my Ronald Reagan t-shirt for the first time–it’s a parody of the Guavara t-shirt popular with college kids. http://t-shirts.cafepress.com/item/strk3-ronald-reagan-dark-tshirt/132373928 I didn’t get two blocks from my home when I was physically assaulted by two fat gay men. They spat at me, pushed me against a lamp post and derided me for wearing the t-shirt, then they fled in their car. A few blocks later a lesbian demanded to know why I was wearing the t-shirt and got into my face about it. A few moments later a family of American Jews deliberately blocked my path down the sidewalk and even the children began to hurl insults at me with the parents encouraging them. But my excursion wasn’t all negative. I actually had two couples hug me and in broken English tell me they were happy to see my wearing the t-shirt. They were Polish Jews who had grown up inside the Iron Curtain and immigrated to the US where they can now live without persecution–that is unless they decide to wear a Ronald Reagan t-shirt in Lakeview, Chicago. It’s interesting that those who embraced me know first hand just what living under communism is like, and how much a man like Reagan saved them from the gulags. Of course I like my life too much to ever wear the t-shirt again, but maybe next time I’m in Warsaw.
Feb 7, 2009 - 8:25 am 19. Fausta:I wonder if they show the part where Che-champion-of-the-poor died with his Rolex on, as he did in real life?
Feb 7, 2009 - 9:32 am 20. JFM:Mario
Thare is an American guy (Erik Svane in nopasaran.blogspot.com) who wore that T-shirt at the annual feast of Lutte Ouvriere in France. That is a trotskist organization ie left of communists. He wasn’t assaulted. In fact he asked Arlette Laguillier, Lutte Ouvriere’s firebrand perpetual candidate to France’s presidency to have pictures with him and she graciously agreed and smiled for the photo. Perhaps it is because while strongly anti-capitalists Lutte Ouvriere people are not that fond of stalinist scum like Che.
The same guy went to an Islamist demonstration carrying a pro-Denmark placard but there things could have ended ugly had he not been rescued by plain clothes policemen.
Feb 7, 2009 - 9:38 am 21. Ni neu:Mario, I’ve gone through a story similar to yours, but this time it was me who reproached a gay couple for proudly wearing a Che Guevara t-shirt in Chueca (a well-known gay district in Madrid), the same despot who depicted homosexuality as a “capitalist bad habit” that had to be wiped out. In fact, thousands of homosexuals were imprisoned in UMAP forced labor camps right after the triumph of revolution. These facts are unknown by the majority of the people, and the blame lies on us for having underestimated the crucial importance of propaganda.
Feb 7, 2009 - 9:46 am 22. don:Well the reason Hollywood makes such movies is because there liberal police departments have gang officers to keep track of all the gang bangers. Like over dressed Narcs, the gang officers wear Che Tee shirts with peace signs on their backs, thinking they will blend in and be simpatico and hip with the expatriate community. In reality, it scares the shit out of those people who voted with their feet, escaping Che and Uncle Ho’s glorious futures. So, with a little Hollywood Orwellian agitprop, they’re are trying to win hearts and minds so their cops can do social work rather than law enforcement at the border.
Feb 7, 2009 - 10:00 am 23. James:Mario,
Feb 7, 2009 - 10:06 am 24. Joe Bison:I had a same experience in Los Angeles. I came across a dude was determined to start a fight with anyone who he disagreed with. I was wearing this: http://us.st12.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/yhst-97394442678697_2036_11090384 The guy went on and on about how capitalism has caused tens of millions of deaths and has left tens of millions more starving. He was a derelic and a drunk, maybe a washed up Hollywood screen writer? I would not be surprised. Maybe he was Steven Soderbergh? Why is it by the way so many jews embrace communism? Don’t they know what the communist have done to them? I guess it’s true about brainwashing: You can stick an elephant in the middle of a room, and you can convince half the people it’s not there.
Che is only popular in places the communists
weren’t. His beneficence is judged by outsiders
who never lived under bastards like him.
Those people wearing Che shirts have the character
Feb 7, 2009 - 10:13 am 25. LawhawkSF:of those Che would have executed first. The
Weathermen installed in power would have provided
the kind of compassionate government Che did.
Why don’t we put Bill Ayers on a shirt as well?
You all got it wrong. Che wasn’t actually killed in Bolivia at all. They snuck him out, shaved his beard, cut his hair, bathed him, and he is now the mayor of San Francisco. Gotta admit, for a guy his age, he looks pretty good.
Feb 7, 2009 - 10:35 am 26. AlanABQ:I need to get a couple of Che sherts ordered. The first one would be that black & white image of che with the Mickey Mose ears instead of the beret. The next one would be the Cafe Press one with Che’s picture & the title on the front that says “This Shirt Brought To You By Capitalism”. Spring is coming, and that’s great t-shirt weather around the UNM campus…
Feb 7, 2009 - 10:59 am 27. deguello:Che represents the homicidal id that resides deep in the center of the “liberal-progressive” personality. This is why he continues to be popular with the left;he represents what they would do absent constitutional restraints;they realize that they can impose their demented utopian fantasies only through violence.The wish to emulate Che and repress and terrorize poltical opponents,is the motivation for “progressive” attacks,on talk radio,the creation of campus speech codes;and the attempts to disarm law-abiding gun owners.Scratch a liberal;find a Stalinist.Che:bien muerto y bien matado. VIVA CUBA LIBRE!
Feb 7, 2009 - 11:05 am 28. Kurt:The liberals will protest, but I think you’re on to something there, deguello!
Feb 7, 2009 - 12:13 pm 29. TJ:AlanABQ: I actually own the Karl Marx t-shirt with Mickey Mouse ears and wear it a lot when I’m feeling frisky. I wore it last summer to Seattle’s gay pride parade. Most people had no clue who he was. I did get a laugh from a palestinian-supporting communist lesbian marching in the parade. I think she was with “Lesbians for Communist Islamists” or something like that. We waved to each other, her with her sickle and hammer flag and me with my Karl Marx as Mickey t-shirt. If only hate could be expressed as peacefully in the rest of the world as it is in the US!
Feb 7, 2009 - 2:37 pm 30. joe buzz:Stone’s JFK is another poor liberal re-write of history. I didnt realize how bad it was until I saw a history or discovery channel show that highlighted his distortions and blatant disregard for evidence and facts. Sometimes I almost feel sorry for lefties…almost.
Feb 7, 2009 - 4:06 pm 31. thornbush:Wow! There is a lot of hate here.
I’m no fan of the killer Che, but the hate expressed here for fellow Americans is quite surprising to this visitor.
Feb 7, 2009 - 7:04 pm 32. Evil Otto:(rolling eyes) Yes, thornbush, criticizing people who worship a butcher like Che makes us filled with “hate.”
Do you somehow imagine that people who express a political opinion (like del Toro and those twits wearing Che shirts) are immune from having their views criticized? If we were ripping into someone wearing a Hitler t-shirt, would you be so upset?
Grow up, thronbush. This is what we call FREE SPEECH. If you don’t like it, there’s the door.
Feb 7, 2009 - 8:42 pm 33. Little Banana:Geez thornbush – would you ever grow a pair! If you think this is “hate”, you’re not going to last too long in the real world. Or is it only “hate” if you don’t agree with it?
Feb 8, 2009 - 10:52 am 34. Debbie Downer:I always cringe when people say “one person CAN make a difference,” as if it’s a good thing. Che is a perfect example of one person making a difference.
Feb 8, 2009 - 11:07 am 35. deguello:Thornbush: And where might you be visiting from? Planet Appease,where hatred for those who sympathize with mass murderers, is politically incorrect? Hate what deserves to be hated I say,and those who can’t are moral eunuchs.
Feb 8, 2009 - 11:40 am 36. deguello:James,Che a great man? Cubans have the same kind of totalitarian health care,avaiable to the inmates of Auschwitz.You’d sell your freedom for that! I suggest you check yourself into a vd clinic ASAP;it’s reached tertiarystage in your brain. Armchair Marxist-leninist pendejo!
Feb 8, 2009 - 11:45 am 37. deguello:Kurt:for insights into liberal propensity for totalitarianism,read “Useful Idiots” by Mona Charen.Viva Cuba Libre! y Viva Estados Unidos libre!
Feb 8, 2009 - 11:48 am 38. deguello:MR.GOMEZ:Will the real Che stand up? For reasons beyond his control, he’s unable to,However, he used to stand on a pile of corpses of innocent Cubans who did not share his stalinist beliefs. Does that count?
Feb 8, 2009 - 12:03 pm 39. sonoffar:The movie Che is a good example of the crap H-wood offers the chumps and the weak minded as mainstream entertainment. Thankfully those with their minds still in their possession have the option of simply not paying to see such offerings. I suspect it’s a free download somewhere on the Net if you simply MUST see it. With summer coming may I suggest this Che offering in T-shirt design.
http://13695.spreadshirt.com/us/US/Shop/Index/design/design/Che-Is-Dead—Get-Over-It-2937011
Now that the stink of his carcase is gone perhaps we can re-celebrate his glorious demise.
Feb 8, 2009 - 12:56 pm 40. Frank:I wouldn’t go so far as to say that his execution was appropriate, but I can’t bring myself to care. Good riddance to bad garbage.
Feb 8, 2009 - 6:20 pm 41. Kurt:Deguello: I’m sure it’s a good read.
I doubt any of it would surprise me, though. I work at a university, and after years in academia, I have learned many things about academic leftists. Then, a few years ago I had a relationship with a liberal activist (who admired the movie “The Motorcycle Diaries”) who was a close friend of one of the most influential Democrats in my state’s assembly. Before that relationship, I was willing to give most of the liberals I knew the benefit of the doubt; since then I’ve come to think otherwise.
Feb 8, 2009 - 7:07 pm 42. Crying Gusanos:Ronald Reagan’s right-wing contra death squads led to the deaths of 100,000 in Guatemala, 70,000 in El Salvador, and 30,000 in Nicaragua. I wonder why the same American conservatives who glorify the bad actor / geriatric war criminal – then bash el Che???
Che Guevara was ‘created’ through the United Fruit Co & CIA 1953 overthrow of the democratically elected Arbenz in Guatemala (while Che was living there). Any actions of Uncle Sam’s induced ‘Frankenstein’s’, ultimately lead back to U.S. foreign policy – and the brutal tyrants it supports, arms, and chooses to head it’s allied financial oligarchies.
Feb 8, 2009 - 8:15 pm 43. Carlito:“Che’s life is an inspiration for every human being who loves freedom. We will always honor his memory.” — Nelson Mandela
Feb 8, 2009 - 8:18 pm 44. winonaa:che might b a stalinist,but not borderline paranoid like him.he never killed without reason,never a massmurderer like stalin or bush’s troups in iraq.never touched a peasant ,he didnt.go for jon lee anderson’s book “che guevara” instead of the movie if you really wanna know the man.
Feb 8, 2009 - 9:34 pm 45. Colin Glassey:i hv a lot of respect 4 andy garcia,bt would go for monica belluci’s character in the movie.
before calling him a lousy husband and father,confirm it with his wife and kids,will you?
i m sure they would drag you out of your white-washed brains.
It sure seems like no one in this discussion actually has spent the time to learn what Che did that made him famous. Here are a few facts: Castro and his small band of poorly trained fighters (less than 500 all told) fought against the Cuban government’s army of some 15,000 soldiers in the Verano operation in the summer of 1958 and they won. The Cuban army was defeated by a military 1/25 its size. Castro then went on the offensive and defeated Batista’s military in both the south (Santiago) and in the center (at Santa Clara).
Che was a major player in this revolution and by any standard, it was an amazing success. That is why Che is famous.
I strongly urge people to read the only decent military analysis of the Cuban revolution by Major Bockman of the USMC, published by the Marine Corp’s Command and Staff College back in 1984. http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/report/1984/BLJ.htm
Was Che a bad person? Almost certainly. Did he fight on behalf of an evil ideology? Yes. Does he deserve real fame for real accomplishments? Yes he does.
Feb 8, 2009 - 9:46 pm 46. gcblues:The myths surrounding the evil Argentine doctor should not be a surprise. all country’s have mythical parts added to their history. I have yet to meet an American that does not reflexively adjust history to support his or her views. why should communists be any different.
the real message in this essay should have nothing to do with Hollywood, and everything to do with the myth building we all engage in.
the lesson from Che and the entire Cuban revolution and it’s longevity is not about him, but us. oh sure, Che was an evil man, executing entire families by his own hand, exporting murder to the Congo and other country’s etc. the lesson however, should be how did this evil and it’s mythology grow?
foreign policy has long term implications. prior to the revolution, almost all of Latin America hated “godless communism” Argentina’s official neutrality, actually they supported the Axis, was to stop Stalin. then a myth with 3 little letters entered the scene. to be sure, we were already involved in supporting murderous fascists in places like the Dominican Republic and Guatemala. however the real kicker was the American Myth, JFK. The bay of pigs resolution absolutely guaranteed Latin American communism as a force. In response the USA supported thugs that were supposedly anti communist. the end of the Monroe doctrine allowing all arms except nuclear into our hemisphere sealed the fate we have today, including this myth. the USA, via the CIA simply poured gas on the fire. Now forever, and rightly so, gringos are seen as violent ignorant right wing fascists. overstated? i suggest you look up some of the evil people we supported and how we rigged elections to install tyrannical murderers. The stupidity of American foreign policy is too much to detail here, however it was JFK’s ignorant agreement that was a gift to the USSR and communism. a gift that keeps giving and giving.
So today we now have an Islamic terrorist training camp on a small island in the territorial waters of Venezuela. Google Monkey Point Nicaragua if you wish to be scared. look at the the reported infiltration training manuals.
the lesson of Che is not that without Hollywood he would be forgotten. that is a load of it. the lesson is, how did our actions and myth building result in what we have today. JFK was a horrible man and a worse president. his myth is at least a big a myth as Che’s.
i return again to Rivas Nicaragua tomorrow. a beautiful large country with an incredible culture. Yet JFK’s Latin plaque here is growing and festering. only about 37% of Nicas support Ortega, but a large majority resent the USA for its violence, weapons and corporate misuse. given the history it is no surprise that the Che myth grows and grows and grows.
Feb 9, 2009 - 12:52 am 47. Evil Otto:Looks like the Stalinist apologists have discovered that someone, somewhere is daring to criticize their beloved t-shirt icon.
winonaa-with-two-a’s,
Why don’t you look up Che’s time at La Cabaña prison. The man was murderous, paranoid-to-the-hilt, and evil.
And take your comparisons between Stalin and “Bush’s troops” and shove them in the orifice of your choice. If that’s the extent of your empty historical knowledge, expect to be laughed at. Frequently.
Oh, and learn how to write. You’re not text-messaging your friends here.
Colin,
Was Che a bad person? Almost certainly.
“Almost” certainly? What does one have to do to get a full “certainly” from you, Colin? Blow up the planet Alderaan?
Did he fight on behalf of an evil ideology? Yes. Does he deserve real fame for real accomplishments? Yes he does.
And at least Hitler kept the trains running on time, eh Colin? Che’s “accomplishment” (winning a few battles) has resulted in a brutal, decades-long dictatorship. The only thing Che ever deserved was to be thrown in an anonymous grave.
Feb 9, 2009 - 4:50 am 48. JFM:Cubans do not get free health care. They pay it through taxes and retentions on pay. They aldo pay the free (for the beneficiaries) Castro and the nomnaklatura are getting, they pay for Castro’s Spanish doctors (the Cuaban system is so good that when Castro fells ill he has to call doctors from outside) while they get this:
http://therealcuba.com/Page10.htm
May the rich white kids who praised Castro or Guevara de la Serna in this blog, get one day the same health care Cuban blacks get in Castro’s racist regime.
Feb 9, 2009 - 6:03 am 49. winonaa:Evil is in your name Otto try a more positive approach towards yourself before attacking my spellings and name,La Cabaña was for traitors,batista’s spies and war criminals,how do you expect anyone to treat them.Why did not you mention Guantanamo Bay and Abu Ghraib in the same breath as La Cabaña.Were’nt those American soldiers paranoid Otto? .Why are you only after him? Because his picture is famous? Should I post pictures from the former to open your eyes or will you update your empty current knowledge yourself? When you speak of ill-treatment of PoWs,mention every country who did it including your own,and not just one person you hate.
Feb 9, 2009 - 6:17 am 50. Guido:Why did not you comment about Carlito and Nelson Mandela’s quote? Cat got your tongue?
“Ronald Reagan’s right-wing contra death squads led to the deaths of 100,000 in Guatemala, 70,000 in El Salvador, and 30,000 in Nicaragua. I wonder why the same American conservatives who glorify the bad actor / geriatric war criminal – then bash el Che???”
Each time I check on the “facts” that the Left spews, I can either find no actual record of them other than source that is claiming it’s a fact, and it becomes apparent the “facts” came from a propagandist and it’s perpetuated time after time. In many cases the word use and terminology is identical, which really gives away it being specious.
But let’s assume that the facts are accurate, and that the US, as they are claiming in in Iraq where “Americans” have killed 1 million people (although it’s actually the insurgents that the Left is supporting doing all the killing), let’s just say Reagan’s actions led to 100,000 deaths, the reason why I don’t care is, is because Reagan is on my side. Yes, it’s all about taking a side. And yes, my side is the good side. There is no moral equivalence. I’f I am walking down the road and someone tries to rape me, I will fight him, even if it results in his death. Any American or westerner or freedom lover who truly does not comprehend this, has taken a side. Jane Fonda was not a peace activist, she was a communist. She clearly took sides, especially when she went to visit North Vietnam. Danny Glover when smoozing up to Chavez has clearly taken a side. These people make excuses for the brtual killing and minimize the numbers (was it Noam Chomskey who insists Pol Pot only murdered about 50,000 people after the US pulled out of southeast Asia and not the actualy 2 million?) You see, it works both ways, that’s because people take sides. None of us are peace activists for chrissakes! Che surely wasn’t. It’s all a war to see who gets to be top dog. How can you not take the side of the US? I want the US to be top dog.
Feb 9, 2009 - 8:12 am 51. John:there were several evil Argintine dictators, however che wasn’t among them…..
talking about making movies about disease carring rats…i think there was not one but two movies about Nixon in the last few years
Feb 9, 2009 - 9:41 am 52. John:somewhere above: “Che represents the homicidal id that resides deep in the center of the “liberal-progressive” personality. This is why he continues to be popular with the left;he represents what they would do absent constitutional restraints;they realize that they can impose their demented utopian fantasies only through violence”
the last bit sounds just like the last six years in iraq
Feb 9, 2009 - 9:46 am 53. deguello:Winonaa , Carlitos, and the rest of the useful idiots: Che always killed for a reason,that reason being the erecting of a criminal utopia in Cuba on a foundation of fantasy,murder,and terror.There is no difference among Stalin Castro, Che,and Hitler. Carlitos! welcome back I see the asylum has once again released you;new meds perhaps? The Mandela quote demonstrates only his ignorance/useful idiocy. Mindlessly parotting this ignorant drivel is not a reasoned argument:do you want a cracker with your meds?.To compare Gitmo to the Castroite torture dungeons, is ludicrously imbecilic;like comparing a juvenile detention facility, to Auschwitz.As for crying gusanos:if Reagan’s policies did indeed lead to the deaths of 100,000 future Ches,Marxist leninist torturers, and other human excrement, then that’s just another reason to consider Reagan,a great man .It’s obvious that the gusanos have eaten away your brain.
Feb 9, 2009 - 9:49 am 54. deguello:Colin Glassey Castro’s victory over Batista is not such a big deal;the cuban army was corrupt,and terribly led by batistiano thugs chiosen for loyalty and not competence. The first time Guevara came across a competent force (in Bolivia),he was annhilated.
Feb 9, 2009 - 9:53 am 55. deguello:John: This is not a discussion of Iraq,but of Che Guevara.Areyou aware that we had an election that repudiated Bush’s policies? Unlike cubans who like other people’s under the marxist heel,never had a chance to elect their own governments.
Feb 9, 2009 - 10:20 am 56. gcblues:john
please go back and read the post you cite. it said “evil Argentine Doctor”, not dictator. Che was a doctor of medicine. considering his crimes, this renders his myth even more reprehensible.
certainly the only good communist is a dead one. in less than 200 years, communism has almost caught up in death and torture with organized religion. comparing our detention center on Cuba with Cuba’s torture chambers is of course laughable, as is anyone that supports communism.
it is however, ironic that conservatives here being entirely aware of the incompetence of government, the uselessness of most public employees, and the obvious fact that government is a money pit that never solves a thing, then turn around writing that American foreign policy is a paragon of virtue. well, it ain’t so.
my dad said it best. until you take responsibility for your errors, you are powerless to correct them. The USA is responsible for much that is evil in the Americas. that is an inescapable fact.
Feb 9, 2009 - 10:42 am 57. Evil Otto:Evil is in your name Otto
That’s because this name is taken from an early 1980s video game character, my morally-challenged little friend.
try a more positive approach towards yourself before attacking my spellings and name
Your “spellings” consisted of the same insipid text-messaging style that is a tool of the shallow and lazy. I’ve noticed, though, that suddenly you’ve abandoned the style and are at least trying to write coherent sentences. Why is that? Could it be that you want to be taken seriously?
,La Cabaña was for traitors,batista’s spies and war criminals,how do you expect anyone to treat them.
You can’t seriously be that naive. NO ONE can be that naive. In a communist regime, who is a traitor, spy, or “war criminal?” Well, let me give you a hint, winonaa: it’s anyone the regime SAYS is a traitor, spy, or war criminal. Hundreds were shot there without trial. Che personally shot some. And here you are making excuses for those horrible acts.
Why did not you mention Guantanamo Bay and Abu Ghraib in the same breath as La Cabaña.
Why, you shallow, morally-empty twit? Because they don’t hold a frikkin’ candle to La Cabaña. Because HUNDREDS WERE SLAUGHTERED IN THAT HELL-HOLE. Because La Cabaña held political prisoners, many of who’s only crimes consisted of criticizing the Castro regime. It’s too bad you hold the Bush Administration to a much higher standard than you hold the murderous psychopath Che.
Were’nt those American soldiers paranoid Otto?
Nope.
Why are you only after him? Because his picture is famous?
No, because people like you make excuses for him. You make excuses for evil, and personally that sickens me. People who think of Che as some kind of hero, who try to justify his crimes are morally deficient.
Should I post pictures from the former to open your eyes or will you update your empty current knowledge yourself?
You go right ahead. Do you think I haven’t seen pictures of Muslims being humiliated in AG? Thanks to a free press (something which Che was fighting against and Cuba doesn’t have to this day), I have. And being humiliated by US soldiers is NOTHING compared to murdering hundreds of prisoners without trial.
When you speak of ill-treatment of PoWs,mention every country who did it including your own,and not just one person you hate.
Why? Does that somehow justify the actions of the sociopath you worship? If the US does something evil, does that absolve Che of his numerous crimes?
Why did not you comment about Carlito and Nelson Mandela’s quote? Cat got your tongue?
Because I don’t give a damn what Mandella wrote. He was wrong, and as morally shallow as you if he thinks that murderer is worthy of any praise.
Feb 9, 2009 - 2:18 pm 58. LennyB:To people who have not seen what the world is truly like, Che is a hero — a beacon of ’strength’ in a sea of their own submissive weakness. (Ironic, because the man was plainly a coward and a sociopath). Maybe the attraction liberals feel for a like-minded sociopath is not that hard to understand, considering how gutless most of them are. It’s not hard to see why one’s personal willingness to kill is romantically (and quite wrongly) viewed by liberals as strength. Never met any liberals who had a hard upbringing, not a single one. All socialists come from wealth — and not usually of their own making. The thing speaks for itself.
Then again, there are people who write love-letters to jailed serial killers. The world is a sick place.
Personally? I can forgive a child using mommy and daddy’s college stipend to buy a t-shirt. What does a kid know anyway? I can forgive the peasant who believes that Che is fighting for them. But to the adults who came of age in the free-market first world, who wear such T-shirt to display their politics, I simply feel indifference, possibly a bit sad. And most of all I feel that they are lucky — lucky that they don’t have the personal industry to wage so-called revolution and be quite appropriately killed for it. Perhaps I am the sociopath, because I wouldn’t have a problem with that. Their way of thinking is a cancer to all humanity. Eradication of those who act violently on Marxist-revolutionary impulses is as good a thing as a warm hug from a cuddly kitten.
And as for Nelson Mandela — the man waged an honorable struggle on important issues that benefit all of mankind. He endured tremendous hardship. And he also happens to be a blowhard. If he saw fit to speak well of that murdering savage in my house, I’d slap him in the face. Hard. Just because you’ve suffered doesn’t mean you know anything. Talk about opening your mouth and removing all doubt.
Feb 9, 2009 - 11:16 pm 59. winonaa:otto,you have changed me,che is a big bad murderer,but dont say that the US soldiers who verbally abused and whipped the prisoners raw and then set dogs loose on them in AG were perfectly normal. Such videos are shown to 12 year olds repeatedly till they are willing to become suicide bombers and kill thousands.A gunshot does less harm than that .
Feb 10, 2009 - 10:42 am 60. winonaa:Dont call Mandela a morally shallow person just because you didnt like one of his quotes,what he did all his life isnt the work of a shallow moralled person and you cant just ignore all his good works and sufferings.
otto,tell me something,were Cubans more oppressed under US-backed Batista’s regime or under Castro’s regime?
Feb 10, 2009 - 11:16 am 61. winonaa:Che is supposed to have killed 700 people,were all of them accused of just criticizing Castro or some of them were really Batista’s henchmen,and if they were consist of both,what is the ratio
About my writing–I am using a computer for just over a month and my typing is still slow,last time I didnt have unlimited internet access and had to wrap things up fast,so used the short-cuts.
Feb 10, 2009 - 11:36 am 62. chrisk:Good to know the origin of your name,my eye-opener.
its fairly obvious that the author has not seen the movie. or if he has, he is upset that the movie made wasn’t the one he envisioned it should be (a 4 hour movie not large enough scope for you?).
how is this article’s point valid?
shoudl there be a passion of the christ prequel to show his teaching? should someone repaint venus to see how she got in that shell? you know, the TRUTH.
Feb 10, 2009 - 11:45 am 63. Henry Gomez:Chrisk:
You make a 4-hour movie about a man who’s greatest accomplishment was killing Cubans and cut out the part where he kills all the Cubans? How is that anything but a whitewash. It’s like making a movie about Hitler and cutting from his election as chancellor to his marriage to Eva Braun and suicide. Please, quit while you’re behind.
Feb 10, 2009 - 12:23 pm 64. Henry Gomez:And BTW, this was never intended to be a movie review.
Feb 10, 2009 - 12:24 pm 65. Evil Otto:otto,you have changed me,
I’ve made you smart? I have gotten you to question your shallow idolization of a psychopath?
I doubt you’ve changed a bit. At this point, you’re just pouting. You’ve had your rear-end handed to you, and you have nothing left except to whine about it. Face it honey, you’ve lost the argument, because you never really knew what it was you were arguing about.
che is a big bad murderer,but dont say that the US soldiers who verbally abused and whipped the prisoners raw and then set dogs loose on them in AG were perfectly normal.
Ah, so in your world humiliation=murder. Che murders hundreds, and you defend him, you justify his sick and evil actions. A few US troops humiliate and terrorize some prisoners, and I’m supposed to show deep, deep concern and equate them with someone who personally executed prisoners without trial?
What’s next, winonaa? Going to try to convince me that 2+2=167?
Such videos are shown to 12 year olds repeatedly till they are willing to become suicide bombers and kill thousands.A gunshot does less harm than that .
So we should have shot the prisoners at Guantanamo and AG? Hey, it’s what Che would have done. Maybe if George Bush had ordered all of the prisoners to be executed without trial you’d put his face on a t-shirt.
Dont call Mandela a morally shallow person just because you didnt like one of his quotes,
I will call anybody a morally shallow person if they defend a mass murderer like Che. I don’t care who they are. Struggling and suffering doesn’t absolve one of the requirement to show decency and common sense.
what he did all his life isnt the work of a shallow moralled person and you cant just ignore all his good works and sufferings.
You really need to get over your hero worship, winonaa. Mandella said that Che was “an inspiration for every human being who loves freedom.” That is a statement so profoundly stupid that it beggars the imagination. Che’s every action was an offense to those who love freedom, yet fools praise him BECAUSE THEY DON’T KNOW WHAT HE WAS. That’s your problem, winonaa… you really know nothing about your beloved t-shirt icon.
Feb 10, 2009 - 1:43 pm 66. Evil Otto:otto,tell me something,were Cubans more oppressed under US-backed Batista’s regime or under Castro’s regime?
Castro’s, winonaa. Look it up.
And what is with your attempts to change the subject? Even if Batista was a tyrant, does that somehow justify Che’s crimes?
You really need to educate yourself. Start here:
http://www.independent.org/newsroom/article.asp?id=1535
Then read Armando Valladares’ book “Against All Hope.” If you can stomach it, that is. I barely could… it’s a brutal account of a man who spent over two decades in Castro’s prisons, including La Cabaña.
Learn, winonaa. Stop defending a monster, and stop trying to prove that Gitmo and AG were/are as bad as Che’s crimes. They aren’t. All you’re doing is trying to change the subject.
Feb 10, 2009 - 1:53 pm 67. JFM:Winona
otto,you have changed me,che is a big bad murderer,but dont say that the US soldiers who verbally abused and whipped the prisoners raw and then set dogs loose on them in AG were perfectly normal.
Pleaaaase, there is a small difference. Those US soldiers were punished for it, Guevara was praised, congratulated and rewarded for it. The comarades of the US soldiers loathed them enough to report them. Guevara’s comrades agreed with what he was doing. And don’t believe that Guevara mùerely executed people, he also tortured them.
But the fundamental difference is that no right winger will ever wear a T-shirt with the portrait of Abu Graib soldiers, write books praising them or flock to a movie praisning them.
Such videos are shown to 12 year olds repeatedly till they are willing to become suicide bombers and kill thousands.A gunshot does less harm than that .
The why they hate us again. If it were not that it would be another grief. They would use the, fake, video of Mohammed Al Dhura’s death or just simply point him to the Koran where it says that if you kill infidels you will be rewarded with an eternity of f..ing. Because the problem is not what we do but the basic tenets of islam one of them being that Muslims are allowed to kill or enslave infidels (1) but the opposite is illegitimate. Pakistani troops killed over a million Bangladeshis and raped at least as many ubder the deafning silence of the Mulsim world. Ditto for the Islamist crimes in Algeria, ditto for Darfur, South Sudan, for the massacres of Hazara by the Taliban, for the tortures in Saddam’s gaols. Not a single minute of sleep was lost on the Muslim world about that not to mention when like in Timor victims were non-Muslim.
(1) In the life of Muhammad it is told that after destroying a tribe he had the husband, father and brothers of a woman tortured and killed, then the woman “converted” to Islam and he went to bed with her. And nobody questions the sincerity of the conversion or Muhammad’s actions: it was just infidels.
Feb 10, 2009 - 1:59 pm 68. Dave:“Will the Real Che Guevara Please Stand Up?”
Thankfully he has long since assumed room temperature and lost the ability to stand or hurt anyone else.
The willful ignorance that would classify this evil person as a freedom fighter is worthy of contempt. Freeing people from one oppressive situation so that you can can turn around and oppress them just as bad or worse is not virtuous – it’s cynical and repugnant. That was Che then, Castro’s Cuba now, and Chavez more and more every day.
That this movie would be made should be a reminder of how intellectually bankrupt so much of the Hollywood and the left in America really is.
Feb 10, 2009 - 2:26 pm 69. vivo:50. Guido:
“let’s just say Reagan’s actions led to 100,000 deaths, the reason why I don’t care is, is because Reagan is on my side.”
Since 1953 the American government has supported CIA trained military and police “advisers” in Central America that tortured and killed the thousands that were mentioned before. Their purpose was to create and keep right-wing governments. The killing was senseless and totally inhumane. Very few right-wingers were killed. This was the training ground for all the future torture and tactics that has made the USA an enemy in so many parts of the world. Survivors and contemporaries don’t forget.
If you don’t care, shame on you.
Feb 11, 2009 - 4:44 am 70. winonaa:“Ah, so in your world humiliation=murder. Che murders hundreds, and you defend him, you justify his sick and evil actions. A few US troops humiliate and terrorize some prisoners, and I’m supposed to show deep, deep concern and equate them with someone who personally executed prisoners without trial?”
Feb 11, 2009 - 10:17 am 71. deguello:when i mentioned US troops,i did’nt say anywhere that che is less bad than them,or his deeds are justified.
And humiliation isnt equal to murder, its worse,get yourself insulted publicly,and then get yourself caned in a room.You will know which one hurts more.
About putting Bush’s picture on a t-shirt,I belong to a country where about half the people cant afford proper clothes,let alone che t-shirts,he is not a t-shirt icon here,but there is so much hatred (*)against Bush and America in all developing and underdeveloped countries that you will be asked if che (or anyone) was for or against America,if he was against,he will be praised irrespective of what else crime he might have committed.(except perhaps Hitler and Mussolini,they are too notorious from the world wars).
(*)America faces an economic crisis and prices of even simplest things like flour and vegetables get tripled here,they cant be blamed.
Not only can’t your countrymen afford proper clothes,but clearly their brains don’t work very well. Let ‘em hate us!;let them adopt Che and castro as role models for politicians,and Cuba-style marxism as a solution.let ‘em stew in their self created hell,and realize that if you empower a psychosis, and support pschopaths,you will live in hell! Who cares whether these losers hate the USA? They’ll eventually immigrate to the USA to cut grass,and do servile jobs,rather than live in yet anther marxist Utopia.
Feb 11, 2009 - 10:52 am 72. Michael:One thing always left out about the killings Che ordered or personally commited is that most of them were other leaders or participants in the revolution. No, Castro wasn’t the supreme leader of the revolution, he was just one of several and only the most visible.
What made Castro and Che preeminent was the killing of all those who opposed them, Batista’s or revolutionaries. Che once said that revolutions fail not because too many are killed but because not enough are killed.
Feb 11, 2009 - 12:39 pm 73. JFM:Mr Vivo
Your side supported Pol Pot, so spare us your morality lessons.
Feb 11, 2009 - 1:39 pm 74. Evil Otto:when i mentioned US troops,i did’nt say anywhere that che is less bad than them,or his deeds are justified.
“La Cabaña was for traitors,batista’s spies and war criminals,how do you expect anyone to treat them.”
Your words, winonaa. Che was in charge of La Cabaña. You stated that it was expected that the traitors, spies, and war criminals would be treated exactly as they were. That is, tortured and murdered. You justified his deeds.
And humiliation isnt equal to murder, its worse,get yourself insulted publicly,and then get yourself caned in a room.You will know which one hurts more.
‘When I use a word,’ Humpty Dumpty said, in a rather scornful tone,’ it means just what I choose it to mean, neither more nor less.’
‘The question is,’ said Alice, ‘whether you can make words mean so many different things.’ –Through the Looking Glass by Lewis Carroll
Suddenly, humiliation=torture, winonaa? Do you even understand the frikkin’ subject? Do you understand that someone getting caned is NOT the same as someone getting their privates laughed at by a none-too-bright US Army private?
Words have meaning. If you’re talking about humiliation, say humiliation. If you’re talking about murder, say murder. If you’re talking about torture, say torture. Do not try to shift from one to the other.
Oh, and honey, humiliation is NOT worse than death. Death is far worse. And we are not talking about TORTURE, which is a separate subject. You might want to research the people who were tortured by Che, if you can be bothered.
About putting Bush’s picture on a t-shirt,I belong to a country where about half the people cant afford proper clothes,let alone che t-shirts,he is not a t-shirt icon here,but there is so much hatred (*)against Bush and America in all developing and underdeveloped countries that you will be asked if che (or anyone) was for or against America,if he was against,he will be praised irrespective of what else crime he might have committed.(except perhaps Hitler and Mussolini,they are too notorious from the world wars).
Then your countrymen are fools. It’s not the US’ fault that your countrymen can’t afford clothes, though I’m sure it’s easier to blame us then to blame the corrupt thugocracies that rule so many nations. Time and again dictators and murderers come to power, often being voted for by the very people they exploit, and rather than blame THEM for the state of the country, the masses blame the US. It’s far easier to hate an outsider and blame him for your troubles than to accept responsibility and try and change things yourself. We’re not the ones who elected Hugo Chavez in Venezuela. We’re not the ones who put Mugabe in power in Zimbabwe. That’s the ugly truth, winonaa.
Stop blaming us for your problems.
Oh, and if your people hate the US almost as much as they hate Hitler and Mussolini, then screw them.
(*)America faces an economic crisis and prices of even simplest things like flour and vegetables get tripled here,they cant be blamed.
Yes, they can.
Feb 11, 2009 - 4:16 pm 75. LennyB:Vivo, blame America if you want — the fact is that the heathens who were trained did the killing. These were not Americans who did this, and the will to commit atrocities cannot be trained into someone — you either have it, as Che certainly did, or you don’t.
You call this support for right-wing governments, and yet you probably have the nerve to consider yourself an independent. Twit. I think opposing left-wing governments who oppress their own people in to filth and poverty and doomed socialism is not necessarily right-wing, it’s simply good.
If you want senseless and inhumane killing, then go to a senseless and inhumane place wherein the rule of law is not respected — by folks about as sophisticated as you are. They were doing it long before America got here and will be doing it long after. If these places had their act together, no amount of CIA training would have any influence. That is hardly the fault of the USA — it is in fact the fault of the citizens of these nations who refuse to support and demand government of the people, by the people, and truly for the people — by force if necessary, which by the way is exactly how Americans guaranteed their freedom — they fought and died to make it happen. It is an unfortunate fact of life that Latin America is largely in the situation they are in, which I’m sure you think merely “happened” to them, but holding the USA to blame for this result of fundamentally flawed human nature and the cultural legacy of Spanish and Portuguese conquest is quite stupid. And diagnosing that fact is the first step to actually caring about them. Ignoring it keeps them down.
“Survivors and contemporaries don’t forget”? What kind of half-witted threat is this? Let me tell you who doesn’t forget — the United States of America. Cross this nation — the one single nation the has used its hegemonic dominance more judiciously than any other in the entire course of human history — at your own peril, ignorant wretch. Despite its many flaws, America is the greatest hope for humanity that the world has ever seen. And the point you are assailing is simply that any action that supports this is defensible.
Feb 11, 2009 - 6:54 pm 76. winonaa:If che’s prisoners were thugs,they deserved what they got,and che was right, if they were innocent(as you stated),che was wrong and i will not justify that.
no,america doesnt vote leaders in other countries but it backs them, so that it can use them as puppet later if needed.america did back Musharaf at one point even though it was none of it’s business who does a coup in Pakistan,why? so that it could sell some weapons?
and coming to humiliation /torture is better than murder,-if you get shot in the head,you are dead,you are off,but if you are humiliated bad enough,then you have to live with that for the rest of your life,and you die everyday.There are somethings no one can forget.But it seems you have lived a too comfortable life to realise that.
“Do you understand that someone getting caned is NOT the same as someone getting their privates laughed at by a none-too-bright US Army private?”
I used “caned” not to compare it with what you compared it with,but to make you understand the difference between dying once and dying a million deaths all your life ,but it seems you have been cuddled too much to do that.
The masses blame US because it with it’s high browed attitude and acting as if its the big brother to the rest of the world has made itself too unpopular,nobody no longer cares if US is involved or not,yes they might be wrong here,but pictures of burnt kids splashed all over the papers during the Iraq war do make people angry, and why?The general answer comes, US is greedy for oil and that makes US hated,Saddam was a tyrant himself and the world knows that but US is no less guilty for suddenly waging a war and killing millions.Saddam might have killed more but that doesnt justify America.It is not responsible for poverty of 3rd World countries,but is responsible for the hatred it gets.
“Were’nt those American soldiers paranoid Otto?”
Nope.
“(*)America faces an economic crisis and prices of even simplest things like flour and vegetables get tripled here,they cant be blamed.”
Yes, they can.
The way you have given verdicts here,you pretty much sound like a dictator yourself.Ever wondered how you might have treated those who offend you if you led a country.You will say that you would have given them a fair trial and all, but would not you have made sure they are punished in some way,dont claim that you are above petty human-weaknesses.
Anyway, this might be my last post,been spending a lot over internet for the last few days,cant afford more,”poor twisted little twit” otto will call me now or “good riddance” or that i am running away or some-thing,but you are not going to pay my bills so cant help.
Feb 12, 2009 - 5:53 am 77. winonaa:Damn cant check what you post next otto
Feb 12, 2009 - 5:58 am 78. deguello:Winonaa: Please don’t fall for marxist “solutions”;not only don’t they work;they kill. Why replace Batista with Che, or the Tsar with a Stalin.Work towards a third way.Che,Castro, and his marxist killers have destroyed Cuba.
Feb 13, 2009 - 5:36 am 79. Evil Otto:Looks like winonna has taken her toys and ran home. Oh well. Keep blaming us for all of your problems, winonna.
Feb 15, 2009 - 9:57 am 80. Henry Gomez:“If che’s prisoners were thugs,they deserved what they got,and che was right, if they were innocent(as you stated),che was wrong and i will not justify that.”
Thugs according to who? Does Che get to decide who is guilty and who is not? Who appointed him to be the judge jury and executioner? A foreigner killing Cubans?
How can I expect judge Guevara to be impartial when he joined Fidel Castro in a mission to overthrow Cuba’s leader when he himself had never even been to Cuba. He made a judgement with no personal experience.
Feb 16, 2009 - 1:08 pm 81. goodgod:Good God, people. If you’re going to call Che a mass-murderer, why don’t we put George Washington in there too? What about the massacre of the Iroquois Indians all in the name of revolution?Was that justifiable? In truth there’s no such thing as a bloodless revolution or revolutionary, and Che Guevara is no different. True, Guevara wasn’t perfect and made many foolish mistakes along the way, but it’s more what he represented that makes him such an idol. Also, half the information on here against Che tends to not have a very good source, considering it comes from Humberto Fontova’s book, who is clearly biased and tends to not look at the whole picture. Nobody seems to remember that Cuba during Batista’s reign was basically a gigantic brothel, pimped out by the United States, and a playground for the Mafia, while it’s citizens remained illiterate, diseased,and impoverished. There’s a reason why Che wanted a revolution, and I’m pretty certain that Cubans would rather live under Castro than Batista any day. Intact, one of the reasons why Che and Castro had so many people killed so fast and without a fair trial (although technically the Nurembergh trials were no different) is because the Cuban people would have taken matters into their own hands. They were enraged at Batista and his mob shooting down people in the streets if they were suspected of being traitors to his dictatorship. If Castro and Che hadn’t of killed off Batista’s people in a organized fashion, the people would have most likely rioted and killed them anyways. And yes, there were most likely innocents killed as well. Welcome to the reality of any revolution. Whether one likes it or not, innocent blood will always be shed in the face of any war, revolution, or military squabble.
And as for Che personally killing his own people, there are actually only 5 or 6 deaths that are proven and accounted for, and they were all traitors, deserters( which some may argue doesn’t deserve a killing, but in the military world it makes perfect sense) and rapists. But of course there’s going to be American propaganda telling otherwise to all of this. Obviously, they’re not going to say anything positive about the Post-Batista Goverment(which they would probably argue was a good one) let alone the man who represents everything the United States governent is afraid of. Che literally brought the U.S to it’s knees.
And like I said before, Che wasn’t a perfect man, let alone a perfect revolutionary, but I think that in the end he represents that passionate, fiery rebel within us all. He’s admired by Mandela and existential poets for a reason. He’s emblazoned on t-shirts and posters and keychains for a reason. It’s not the man himself people admire, it’s what he stands for,convoluted and unrealistic as it is.
More to consider: If you want to find negative facts about Che Guevara, you will find them. If you want to find positive facts about Che Guevara, you will find them. The truth is that Guevara was, remains and will always be a complex and mysterious figure( the CIA thought he was dead for five years before they found him in Bolivia!) I own a Che Guevara t-shirt, but I’d never wear it or yhrow it out until I find out the complete truth on him. Until then I will stay neutral.
Mar 20, 2009 - 3:29 am 82. Carlos W:CLAIM: “Che killed innocents”
REALITY: Jon Lee Anderson, author of the 800 + page ‘Che Guevara: A Revolutionary life’, who spent 5 years researching the man:
“I have yet to find a single credible source pointing to a case where Che executed an innocent. Those persons executed by Guevara or on his orders were condemned for the usual crimes punishable by death at times of war or in its aftermath: desertion, treason or crimes such as rape, torture or murder.”
Apr 1, 2009 - 9:28 pm