Joe’s question about taxes threw a wrench into Barack Obama’s campaign pitch. So, oh what a background check Joe got. Within days, reports were all over the news that Joe owes back taxes, he doesn’t have an Ohio plumber’s license, his real name is Samuel, and he is — shock and horror — a registered Republican. Within days, Obama and Biden were holding up Joe to public ridicule, and by implication mocking any American working stiff who might have the audacity to want to earn more than $250,000 per year.
Obama may be full of talk about delivering the American dream, but he apparently has enormous disdain for Americans who actually sweat to earn it for themselves. He wants to take Joe’s money and spread it around in the name of helping others get ahead — but if anyone gets ahead more than Obama deems fitting, watch out.
It seems that Joe’s sins are less than the litany would make them. He may not have a plumber’s license, but he works for someone who does. He owes back taxes, but less than $1,200. And at least to date, it is not a crime in America to use a nickname or be a registered Republican.
But to squabble over Joe’s record is to miss the real point. Obama is the one running for public office, aspiring to the country’s highest position of power and public trust. Joe is not. He’s a private citizen, who had every right to ask a very good question. He wanted to know why he was being taxed “more and more for fulfilling the American dream?”
What he got from the well-heeled Senators Obama and Biden was mockery and contempt.
Most disturbing is this: If that’s how Joe the Plumber gets dealt with while Obama is still stumping for votes, then what happens to Joe, or anyone else who dares question Obama’s plans, should Obama win the White House?
Should we expect that that the answer will be targeted investigations, a public display of whatever can be dug up in the way of private laundry, and sneers from the Oval Office?
In the interest of having an informed electorate, it would be far more valuable were the media teams working less frantically to dig up dirt on Joe, and a lot harder on filling in the gaps in the record of candidate Obama. Why won’t Obama release his Columbia transcripts? What exactly was he doing during those gaps in the bio?
How are we supposed to square the lavish praise of Obama’s intellectual powers and refined sensitivities with his professed failure during years of intimate acquaintance to notice the hate-speech of Rev. Wright? What is the real story with the ties to Bill Ayers, to Tony Rezko? What does that say about his judgment in choosing friends and advisers and associates?
Would Obama appoint similar pals to high office in Washington? Would he bring similarly blinkered perceptions to the job of making policy? Would his critics receive the kind of savaging just dished out to Joe? If there’s any chance that the answer is yes, then the drubbing of Joe the Plumber is a warning to us all.
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41 Comments
1. afuel:This report rings so true in describing what’s coming from the POR gang. With little or no ability to pushback the Repubs and supporters will be the targets of a MSM totally in the tank, ready and willing to attack anyone who critizes THE ONE. If BHO is elected the Justice Department will be cleaned out and cases reviewed with offending files shredded.
Congress members who have protected and controlled Fannie and Freddie will get a pass, Bush will continue to get the total blame and the bankers will go to jail/fined with a ginned up public out for blood (not facts), all aired by PBS, NPR and Air America along with 24/7 hr MSM biased analysis spin while congratulating each other on their handiwork.
NoObama NotNow NotEver
Oct 18, 2008 - 6:26 pm 2. wpb:Good luck at trying to get people to pay attention to the mud slinging on “Sam” the plumber. Can’t find any undergrad school records of Senator Obama, past associations and mentoring by a host of less than stellar characters, and yesterday, and assault on a McCain supporter, because the Obama supporter was having a bad day(?)…. and all the the MSM can do is shrug it off.
Judging by some of the 1400+ responses to a posting earlier today, a McCain supporter is mugging/assaulting an Obama supporter everyday – we just haven’t heard about it until now apparently. (Now that I know of the danger, I’ll be on the lookout when I go to the polls)
This may not be the nastiest election in history, but the win at all costs mentality within the Obama camp sure makes it feel that way. I’ll be relieved when it’s all over. And if Obama wins, we’ll see how smart he really is on January 20th…when it counts. Talk is cheap.
Oct 18, 2008 - 7:21 pm 3. Judith:Welcome to Obama’s thugocracy. Now I understand why Obama’s favorite movie is The Godfather.
No way Obama the fraud would have made it past the primary w/o the media’s blatant efforts to cover-up Obama’s alliances while simultaneously promoting his campaign’s talking-points. The MSM would rather sacrifice its objectivity, & hence the trust in the truth of its news product, than hhave its candidate Obama lose the election.
Thankfully, internet readers can still find clarity & honesty in Claudia’s reporting & analysis. Yes, Claudia was a lone-wolf in smoking-out the oil-for-food scandal & perhaps, in the next 2 wks, she can also help generate more interest in lifting Obama’s mask & his emperor’s new clothes…bc/ McCain is certainly not going to do it for fear of Obama’s pre-emptive race-baiting “get-in-your-face” Chicago mafia-type challenge that chills free speech & honest investigation.
Oct 19, 2008 - 2:11 am 4. Marc Malone:Good title, as this is exactly how the tyrranies get started: suppression of any perceived opposition.
Oct 19, 2008 - 2:19 am 5. lizzy:Let’s hope Obama doesn’t win. He is an arrogant, smirking little prig now. You’re spot on – how imperious and disdainful is he going to be in the White House? Just don’t do it.
Oct 19, 2008 - 2:33 am 6. Shimmy:John McCain thanked Joe Wurzelbacher. He asked Joe Wurzelbacher why he didn’t call when the Constitution was attacked. Joe Wurzelbacher said he had a long night and was flying to New York that evening for a sit-down interview with Mike Huckabee on Pravda. They then began kissing.
Oct 19, 2008 - 5:17 am 7. stu.b.con:First they came for Joe, it seems this was bound to happen and it’s not just the party hacks with their minions in the press who have behaved like fledgeling storm troopers. We’ve all seen for months that to defy or question the ‘one’ (that one) means you are everything racist, wrong, and stupid about America.I’ve been called a racist, a war monger, etc for daring to question Barry’s qualifications, experience, obvious socialism, ethics, and yes RACIST tendencies (Wright, Michelle, Farrakhan,Ayers,Dohrn,Rezko,Mbinga,Khalidi, ad inifinitum).
I imagine a day sometime soon when one of his lemmings follows the marching orders given by Barry to get in my face about my opinions, or worse yet sends his new age gestapo storm troopers over to get my mind right.
I AM JOE
Oct 19, 2008 - 5:26 am 8. Increase Mather:Take a look at what’s happening in Canada…government courts to oversee speech “issues”.
Think that can’t happen here? It’s already a fact on thousands of college campuses…it’s just a matter of timing under the Obama administration.
The mainstream media as a constitutional watchdog is a disgrace…these folks are completely in the tank for Obama.
Been following elections since 1956, have never seen anything like this.
Oct 19, 2008 - 6:32 am 9. Ted Branthover:Obama
Oct 19, 2008 - 7:05 am 10. GKC:Has showerd us what he plans to do and we must stop this Marxist
And, they came for James T. Harris before they went after Joe. (James is the guy who begged McCain to “take it to Obama.” Since then he’s received thousands of hate emails and blogging, including death threats and every sort of racial epithet one could imagine. Often these attacks come from his fellow blacks.)
G. K. Chesterton wrote that “Men do not differ much about what things they will call evils; they differ enormously about what evils they will call excusable.” The hateful left is finding every excuse to attack those who would question their vision for how things soon will be. They justify their evils in a blind lust for control and they should not be misinterpreted with their intentions. If they do this before The One is in office, imagine what they will do when they have official power.
Oct 19, 2008 - 7:08 am 11. cfbleachers:Who took the liberal’s heart?
There was a time when a true, honest, and devout liberal would wince at a mean spirited stereotyping of people. There was a time when a devout liberal would recoil from intolerance. There was a time when a devout liberal would not engage in widespread ridicule and degradation of a segment of society, calling it beneath contempt. Tolerance is no longer a virtue, but rather, a vice.
Is it really that much fun to ridicule and smear small town America? Does it really make one feel warm inside to deride and slander entire regions of the country? Does it really elevate the dialogue when caricatures of people and positions replace an honest assessment of them? Liberals used to stand up against the tyranny of imposed lockstep thought.
Apparently, they have lost their heart. Who stole it?
Who took the liberal’s tongue?
I recall speaking with a local director of the ACLU about their heartfelt and spirited defense of Neo-nazi’s marching in Skokie, Illinois. (at the time, home to numerous Holocaust victims and their families). I was outraged. He said that it was important to defend their right to speak, not to crush it. It was important, even if we disagreed with their point of view, he said…and that we allow their voices to be heard. Crushing dissent was more detrimental to our society, than giving it voice, was his position. It appears that the principle applies to nazis, but does not apply to middle America.
I guess today we don’t take the “treating people not like themselves, with antipathy” where we find it.
Who took the liberal’s spine?
There was a time when spirited debate took place, and even was encouraged within the internal ranks of liberal thinkers. Joe Lieberman and Hillary Clinton…even President Clinton…have all found that marching in lockstep is the only permitted position today. There are no more moderate thinkers allowed, or you will be labeled as a racist, a warmongerer, demonized and slandered. You will be shouted down and either bullied into silence and complicity or run off the reservation.
Traditional liberals stood by and let this happen without so much as a peep of objection. Rather than confront the obvious, naked, notorious injustice of it…they went silent. Retreating into the dark corners of passive acquiescence they collapsed in a heap while their backbone dissolved under the acidic onslaught and bubbling lyes of their Torquemada brethren.
Who took the souls of liberals?
What is now glaringly apparent, is that traditional liberals are dead and gone. They have been swallowed whole by a new breed of leftist. Intolerant instead of tolerant.
Approved speech instead of free speech. Stereotyping instead of individualizing.
Shoting down dissent instead of encouraging open debate. Secreting documents instead of freeing information.
Thugs instead of hugs. Voter fraud instead of voter education.
Bullying and intimidation tactics being exposed, instead of exploited.
Courage and principle have been replaced by cowardice and hypocrisy.
Liberals are dead and gone, the leftists ate them. Liberals are dead and gone, long live the liberals.
Oct 19, 2008 - 7:16 am 12. cfbleachers:“Bullying tactics and intimidation exploited instead of exposed”…please note the correction.
Oct 19, 2008 - 7:29 am 13. Saltherring:Excellent analysis, cfbleachers.
Oct 19, 2008 - 7:58 am 14. fred:Folks, the NKVD chekists are already here. They were auditioning on our college and university campuses for a few decades. They refined it there, while consolidating their positions with every new tenure appointment of their fellow comrades. They’ve been sharpening their skills and preparing for the big time. And the big time for the socialist revolution has arrived. So far, they are doing their jobs without a hitch.
YOU WILL BE ASSIMILATED! RESISTANCE IS FUTILE!
Oct 19, 2008 - 9:25 am 15. Stepan:There’s a funny thing about Joe the Plumber and Sarah Palin: they seem a lot like the exact kind of voter that BO failed to attract in the primaries. Attacking them will not ensure BO of victory.
In fact, these attacks are getting people to look in the mirror and realize that they may be the next targets of a smear campaign for speaking their minds.
Is this America or Amerika?
Under BO I think we know which it will be.
Oct 19, 2008 - 1:09 pm 16. Pickerhead :: Pickings from the Webvine ::October 19, 2008:[...] the Obama folks gang bang of the upstart, Claudia Rosett says, “First they came for Joe the [...]
Oct 19, 2008 - 1:23 pm 17. Highlander:I think we all have just cause to be concerned. It’s not so much that Obama would be the furthest left politician ever to occupy the White House, or his radical friendships, or even his obvious attempts to obscure parts of his past. What is most concerning is the addition of a corrupt press to the mix. A press that is so invested in Obama’s success that it will likely continue to act as his personal praetorian guard during the course of his presidency – however long that may be.
We are all familar with the signs of Obama’s overwhelming sense of superiority, and a disturbing comfort with both the adulation for him and the threats and intimidation committed in his name.
With all these factors at work today it is not difficult to imagine an Obama taking advantage to gather unprecedented power to himself as President. In fact, it seems totally in keeping with the personality traits we have become familiar with during this campaign. It could happen something like this: if a President Obama and a democrat Congress moved successfully to suppress conservative opposition via a re-institution of the Fairness Doctrine and regulation of the internet during his first term, it would help to ensure a second. At that point you mighht see an attempt to repeal the 22nd ammendment. And who’s to say they couldn’t succeed at it – thus paving the way for the Dictator that true socialism requires.
Far-fetched? I would have thought so not so long ago. But I have already seen things in this political season that I never thought I would.
Oct 19, 2008 - 1:24 pm 18. William:As Cool Hand Luke’s nemesis said, “What we have here (spit), is a narcissistic socialist”.
Oct 19, 2008 - 2:30 pm 19. zeppenwolf:Meanwhile, Obama sends out “action alerts” to his legion of unwashed teenaged thugs to disrupt an appearance of mild-mannered Stanley Kurtz, he prods the justice department to remove opposition advertisements from TV…
Can you IMAGINE these people being in power?!?
And of course it is always the liberals who scream “Fascism!” at the drop of a hat.
Not to mention ACORN, and the idea that liberals have every right to steal an election because they’re “good people”.
Oct 19, 2008 - 4:01 pm 20. DotConnector:Confiscation of wealth and socialism pretty much require tyranny in order to be carried out. Witness Russia in the days of Lenin and Stalin.
Heck, if people WANT to spread their wealth to those less fortunate, there is nothing stopping them today. And I know lots of generous people to do give to those that they feel are in need.
But we all know that is not what Obama and other socialists have in mind. They mean well (I think), but really THEY want to be the arbiters of who gets what. It is not by choice, as true charity is.
It is by force. With the gun of the state put the the head of those out of favor.
Oct 19, 2008 - 4:43 pm 21. cfbleachers:They can have my wealth, give me my voice.
They can have my possessions, give me my freedoms.
They can spread my wealth, let me spread my ideals.
They can keep my income, let me defend my countrymen.
They can take my land, let me plant my thoughts.
I care not one whit to maintain a mansion upon a mountain of deceit, I would rather live in a tent on the firm ground of honor.
I will give freely to any man who stands beside me in defense of this land of ours and I will spare not a grain of salt for those who stand against it.
You may speak of “fairness” and yet act upon unfairness. You might steal my purse but you may never buy my silence.
You can cook the books of morality but you can’t balance the ledger on principles of convenience.
Oct 19, 2008 - 5:23 pm 22. Eric Rommel:I think one thing Republicans and Democrats can agree on is that the news media in this country sucks.
Including the hackneyed article you have cut and pasted here.
I would remind you that it was John McCain who injected Joe the Plumber into the national spotlight.
Using his full name and then referring to him numerous times. I recognized it for the gimmick it was
right off the bat and wasn’t really interested in who he actually was.
I would further remind you that it was Mr. Wurzelbacher who then held a press conference on his front
lawn and accepted the invitation to do more media appearances than the GOP VP candidate has done
in two months. I understand he was in over his head but it can’t be said he shied away from the
attention.
If the Joe the Plumbers story had held up and illuminated the veracity of McCain’s position that would
have been the hook for the story giving the Republicans a much needed positive. Unfortunately,
It didn’t. Instead it revealed the mendacity and hypocrisy of the McCain campaign’s attack.
Joe the Plumber is victim of yet another cynical McCain campaign gimmick that backfired. It backfired
and embarrassed him and unfortunately an ordinary man who had nothing to gain from it succeeding.
The Obama campaign did nothing except attempt to relay the truth about Senator Obama’s tax plan.
Oct 19, 2008 - 6:18 pm 23. v for victory:The sneering presidency.
Joe gets “the treatment,” and next will be the American people.
Typical snobbery. Anyone who did not go to Harvard or Harvard of the Midwest, they get thrown under the bus.
Paul Wellstone was a professor where I went to college and it is a notorious snob factory. Obama gets in power, it will be like 4 years of the Wellstone funeral. Not pleasant.
Oct 19, 2008 - 7:03 pm 24. Cindy:I think the issue is that Joe the Plumbers concerns have been addressed by both candidates. Under Obama’s plan, any money he makes over $250,000 would be taxed at an additional 3%. But Joe the Plumber has said to the media that Obama did a song and dance, referencing Sammy Davis Jr, no less, and didn’t answer his question. This leads one to think that Joe the Plumber isn’t interested in hearing and considering an answer re: his taxes under Obama, but is rather looking for information to reinforce his prior position, a Republican position. That suggests that he was never really interested in hearing what Obama had to say. It’s the lack of seeming practical reasoning and thoughtful consideration on his part, at least in regard to what he’s said publicly, that is being debated. And can I add that he’s agreed to continue this conversation with the media?
Oct 19, 2008 - 7:48 pm 25. fred:cfbleachers,
Very fine post above. However, I doubt the ideals to which it refers would impress many of Obama’s bots and activists. It is not virtue they see, but the fruits of our labor. It isn’t truth they seek, but to give solidity to a mirage called Utopia. Instead of plumbing their souls to find resistance to tyranny at home and abroad, they are driven by fear and riven with envy. Very small people…
Oct 19, 2008 - 7:57 pm 26. Concerned One:Why is everyone so surprised ast the treatment of Joe. It’s gone on this entire campaign – Compare the examination the MSM has given Gov. Palin with the non-examination of BO – the annonted one. With $150,000,000 raised in Sept. alone – be afraid, be very afraid – if he gets elected.
TOTALLY OFF POINT,BUT WORTH MENTIONING.
Oct 19, 2008 - 9:59 pm 27. peter jackson:Since the MSM won’t mention it, I thought I would. BO claims 95% will get a tax reduction. He has failed to point out the he will not renew the Bush tax cuts. Ergo – taxes on dividends and interest will go up (substantilly) and capital gains taxes (they are still out there, but not as much as before) will go up. It’s hard to believe that only 5% of the people (those earning $250K or more) have dividend and interest income. Many more than 5% of the population have money in the bank earning interest, own some stock paying dividends and have some unrealized capital gains. Their taxes will go up, regardless of what BO says.
Why will not the MSM go after BO on this very elementary point. Why doesn’t Sen. McCain point this out? Damned if I know.
History has taught us that there are three basic polities: there are those who seek a nation of virtue, there are those who seek a nation of social justice (equality of social outcomes) and there are those who seek a nation of freedom. History has also taught us that we get to only choose one, because to achieve one requires the sacrifice of some part of the other two.
BTW, Obama is all about the pursuit of social justice. We are right to fear for our freedom.
Oct 19, 2008 - 10:13 pm 28. lois:BTW….what about ODINGA???
Oct 19, 2008 - 10:23 pm 29. tami:cf bleachers—-great post
Oct 19, 2008 - 10:36 pm 30. Mary:i could not agree with you more
i thought i was liberal until i saw that being liberal was not acceptance of all—-it was one point of view only—-joe lieberman opened my eyes to this—
he had a different view that the left wing—-
sad but very true posting
i am supporting mccain
to Eric R….I see you too have had a sip of the Obama Kool Aid….
Oct 19, 2008 - 11:33 pm 31. Jim Ritchie:Dear Claudia: As with many others, I was already warned of the outrageous capacity for intimidation possessed of an imbalanced MSM (as you so accurately recount the “job” done on Joe The Plumber by Obama and Biden), thus I had declared my own revolt (in the nature of Lech Walesa) against The Democrat Party—-see below my Oct. 13 e-mail to my:
“BROTHER FRANK: They project their own ever-increasing hate and rage: who, yes– Democrat Radicals, Bush-haters for 7 years, Hollywood Celebs, root-nuts and now the MSM has turned violent-by-lies !! It’s all about The Left’s Messages: “we have the power and the press”, “we can do anything we want for 7 years and you can’t do anything about it !!”, and “we speak and you shut-up !” Well, Michelle Malkin’s counter-article of 10/12/08 at 11:30 AM and accompanying pictures are now on her web-site. I hope you will read and see them. This is why I have declared revolt against The Democrat Party, because: (1) I foresee repression and censorship of free speech roiling-out from The Left in league with The MSM, particularly if Obama is elected, and (2) I foresee worst repression and vicious intimidation from The Ugly Left (and they’re all ugly) if McCain is elected !! May God Strengthen Us All For The Coming Battle For Our Faith and Our God-Given Rights, Jim Ritchie of Roswell Georgia. 10/13/08 8::25 AM”
Oct 20, 2008 - 2:21 am 32. b:God Bless Your Work Claudia, JIM
#22 Eric Rommel: “I would remind you that it was John McCain who injected Joe the Plumber into the national spotlight.”
Absolutely incorrect, and off point.
If you would recall the history Mr Rommel, you’d note that the sequence of events was thus: Obama embarks on neighborhood expedition with news media in tow; Obama accosts gentlemen and kids playing in their front yard; man asks Obama question; Obama blurts out money quote “spread the wealth around” exposing his socialist, Marxist tendencies; media covers the encounter and it is national news before McCain even mentions it at the debate. (How do you think it came to McCain’s attention?)
Now to the off point part. The point is not Joe and has nothing to do with the details of his life. The point is that Obama is a Marxist. It was the revealing answer to a question. The questioner could have been anyone. But, the media and , contra your assertion of their innocence, the Obama campaign, did indeed attack Joe. It’s basically a style of ad hominem argument.
I don’t know quite what you mean by this: “If the Joe the Plumbers story had held up and illuminated the veracity of McCain’s position…”
Everything Joe said has indeed “held up”. And again, you are really missing the point of the whole episode. It’s not, per se, about the fantastical nonsensical Obama campaign claims that 95% of everyone (even the 38% paying no taxes) are going to get a tax cut. Or the ludicrous nonsense that only people making more than 250K are going to see their taxes go up. Or the redistribution scheme he is sneaking into the tax code.
It’s that he is, and has revealed himself inescapably to be, a socialist.
Please all, don’t believe the nonsense about only 250K+ people are going to pay more taxes under an Obama administration. See: expiration of Bush tax cuts, blowing the cap off the payroll tax, increase in dividends and capital gains tax, increase in corporate taxes, socialized medicine, income tax wealth redistrution scheme under the guise of ‘tax cuts’.
Oct 20, 2008 - 10:02 am 33. The Democrat Party's Drubbing of Joe the PLumber - Page 11 - Debate Politics Forums:[...] heard about him now…. Thats a step in the honesty direction… There is hope for you yet…. The Rosett Report First They Came for Joe the Plumber… __________________ كافر Never forget those who died. Never forget those [...]
Oct 20, 2008 - 11:54 am 34. Eric Rommel:Mr. Or Ms. ‘b.’
I have a few issues with your rebuttal to my comment.
The voracious hordes of press people turning up on Joe’s lawn, the invitations to talk shows, and the heedless background checks are the result of McCain’s invoking his name and story in the debate. Not a sound bite played on cable news.
Joe’s story did not hold up. His intention to purchase the business he worked for were aspirational at best. A business that has never netted above $250k.
Either way, Joe would have benefitted from the Obama tax plan. This has been made clear again and again. Screw your eyes shut and plug your ears but facts are facts.
Most importantly, your assertion that a 3% tax hike on the wealthy is ‘Marxist’ is an hysterical hyperbole. It tends to discredit you. By your reckoning, George H.W. Bush (41) was a super double marxist. (Read my lips?)
Your final paragraph is as confused as the rest of your post. The lifting of the cap proposed is on social security contribution. Social Security is no Joke. It is not referred to as the third rail for nothing. I’m sure glad its there for my parents. Are you caring for your folks soley out of your pocket?
With the collapse of people’s pension plans we need it more than ever. And a hike in capital gains tax would affect a middle class earner at an average rate of about four dollars a year.
Look, I don’t know if you believe this nonsense you are posting or if you are engaging in some rhetorical exercise to provoke consternation.
Let me be yet another person to inform you that you have been mislead by a bunch of talk radio hacks using fear and smear tactics because the ideology they have been pimping all these years has been profoundly repudiated by real world events. Take a look at the scoreboard and realize you have lost.
You may not be happy to see Obama as President, but there really is no need to panic. In the end its for your own good as well.
Oct 20, 2008 - 8:15 pm 35. all joe the plumber all the time « lumpenscholar:[...] Claudia Rosett asks questions (dangerous! Watch out!): But to squabble over Joe’s record is to miss the real point. Obama is the one running for public office, aspiring to the country’s highest position of power and public trust. Joe is not. He’s a private citizen, who had every right to ask a very good question. He wanted to know why he was being taxed “more and more for fulfilling the American dream?” [...]
Oct 20, 2008 - 8:45 pm 36. kevintheelder:May as well finish the thought.
First they came for Joe the plumber,
Oct 21, 2008 - 3:16 am 37. Eric Rommel:but I did not question the messiah, so I did not speak out.
Then they came for the Fox Newscasters and the Talk Radio hosts,
but I was neither, so I did not speak out.
Then they came for the gun owners,
but I was not bearing arms, so I did not speak out.
And when they came for me, there was no one left to speak out for me.
lumpen scholar, you make a good point.
Of course Samuel Wurzelbacher, private citizen, had the right to ask the question. In his case, the answer is: He is not going to be taxed more and more. Under Obama’s plan he would be taxed less and less.
I don’t think Senator Obama did anything more than try and answer his question.
Remember that neither candidate is arguing for a flat tax rate. One Candidate is arguing for a lower tax rate for the middle class, the other candidate is arguing for a lower corporate tax rate. This is a democracy and here, we the people, have the right to choose between the two. I think it is our problem that as a culture we can not seem to look at the numbers and draw our own conclusions. Instead the media and/or politicians pick someone as a symbol which is supposed to somehow clarify or personalize these issues. Instead, evidently, it obscures the central point and creates or magnifies irrelevant side issues.
Oct 21, 2008 - 4:07 am 38. schnargley:So, who is this mystery person that has sprung up like a sewer leak out of the anonymity of the banal bourgeoisie masses into the highest promontory of plumbing prominence and power? I have been doing an exhaustive investigation to flush out the real “Joe the Plumber,” and with multiple sources have threaded together an incomplete, yet stunning, disturbing picture of the man whose image is flooding America. With my dedicated staff, we have exposed the cracks in the persona of “Joe the Plumber.” And it doesn’t smell pretty.
The real story.
Oct 21, 2008 - 12:32 pm 39. mark:Eric Rommel:
You repeat Obama’s words, as if they were some kind of truth. No intelligent person could possibly believe that pile of nonsense you just spit out. Nobody intelligent believes Obama, either. He has never spoken the truth about anything, that I can tell.
For instance, of the ‘95%’ you talk about, a whopping share of these people are small businesspeople. Several of Obama’s ideas floating around, as well as those of his party involve HUGE negative impacts upon the bottom line of small and large businesses.
If you think you can harm small business, and it NOT impact negatively on the personal lives and finances of those many tens of millions of people, then you’re an imbecile.
But more importantly, the notion that you can cut 95% of people’s taxes is absurd. It CANNOT be true, and it is indefensible, period. About 30% of all Americans pay no income tax. You can’t cut their income taxes. Unless you intend to cut their FICA percent, the whole thing is a farce.
Oct 21, 2008 - 7:44 pm 40. Eric Rommel:schnargley:
Nice crack at a false flag, but it’s very obvious. It isn’t honest to pretend to be someone you are not.
mark:
I haven’t mentioned ‘95%’ at all. I guess you are just spazzing in my general direction because you resent someone coming in here and actually making sense. But maybe I can clear some things up for you. Obama’s tax plan will lower taxes for 95% of American’s who pay taxes. Not 95% of all Americans. And, yes, most small business people will receive a tax reduction under Obama that they will not under McCain’s plan.
Can you be specific about these ideas floating around that involve negative impacts on small business? Sean Hannity says it so it must be true? Settle down chum and drop the personal insults. These issues can and should be debated on a factual basis.
The Democrats appear to be stealing the GOP’s thunder. Democrats can now arguably claim to be the party of fiscal responsibility and lower taxes. I understand that people hold their ideologies in a deep personal manner, but once these ideologies are repudiated by real world events, is it not more productive to engage in some self examination? To see how the core of your principles can be applied realistically and honestly? Or do you want to continue drag the debate down to the level of insults and wild accusations? Claims that Obama is a terrorist, or an incipient dictator or a socialist or that he never tells the truth are puerile and discredit your cause.
Oct 22, 2008 - 8:26 am 41. Steynian 273 « Free Canuckistan!:[...] ‘Joe the Plumber’ forced to launch a ‘Fight the Smears’ site; First They Came for Joe the Plumber …. (directorblue.blog, [...]
Oct 24, 2008 - 10:03 am