A couple of days ago, Mark Steyn wrote:
Reading Rich and Jonah re the “raging moderates” alongside Derb and Kathryn on Rush & Co is instructive. Six weeks in, the Obamacon dominoes — David Brooks, Christopher Buckley — are stunned to discover that, in the words of Mr. Brooks, “Barack Obama is not who we thought he was”.
You don’t say. Instead, he seems to be pretty much what the firebreathing knuckledragging morons thought he was: a Big Government leftie with the most liberal voting record in the Senate.
So the smart guys got suckered, and the bozos were more or less on the money.
Which may be worth keeping in mind during the apparently endless “reinventions” of American conservatism now underway.
One area where the smart guys got suckered was on President Obama’s rhetorical skills, which when given the electronic assist of a Teleprompter, are excellent. But alas, when forced to improvise are…less than excellent, as Ed Morrissey notes today:
When he had the TelePrompters, he made crowds swoon. When he didn’t, though, things would go terribly wrong. Most of the fumbles on the campaign trail — such as Iran being a “tiny” and therefore no threat, America not being “what it once was”, came when Obama had to go off script. Once, his TelePrompter failed for a couple of moments and he stammered until someone apparently fixed it. It’s not exactly news among the media, either, but they didn’t exactly trip all over themselves to report it.
One new media pundit who noticed Obama’s lack of extemporaneous talent was the now sadly and recently deceased Dean Barnett, who wrote on February 12, 2008 in the Weekly Standard:
Usually when Barack Obama gives a major speech, the overdone hosannas from the liberal commentariat follow as surely as night follows day. The American Prospect’s Ezra Klein wrote of Obama’s post-Iowa victory speech, “I’ve been blessed to hear many great orations. I was in the audience when Howard Dean gave his famous address challenging the Democratic Party to rediscover courage and return to principle . . . But none achieve(d) quite what Obama, at his best, creates. . . . Obama’s finest speeches do not excite. They do not inform. They don’t even really inspire. They elevate. They enmesh you in a grander moment.”
It would be unfair to say this childish lefty gushing has been without cause. Obama is indeed a magnificent speaker. A few days after his Iowa address, I emailed a friend of mine and called it the finest political speech I had ever heard. Then again, I cannot claim to have been in the audience for Howard Dean’s “famous address.”
In spite of Obama’s obvious strengths in this area, questions linger regarding Obama’s gifted speechifying. Do his speeches give us a glimpse at a very special man with a unique vision? Or are we merely witnessing a political one-trick pony? Yes, Obama can turn a phrase better and do more with a Teleprompter than any other modern era politician. But does his special skill set here actually mean anything, or is it instead the political equivalent of a dog walking on its hind legs–unusual and riveting, but not especially significant? Regardless, the liberal commentators have gushed their praise nearly every time Obama has opened his mouth before a Teleprompter the past few months.
It was thus interesting to see Obama climb to the stage at Virginia’s Jefferson-Jackson Dinner on Saturday night. As he strode to the podium, Obama clutched in his hands a pile of 3 by 5 index cards. The index cards meant only one thing–no Teleprompter.
Shorn of his Teleprompter, we saw a different Obama. His delivery was halting and unsure. He looked down at his obviously copious notes every few seconds throughout the speech. Unlike the typical Obama oration where the words flow with unparalleled fluidity, he stumbled over his phrasing repeatedly.
As I recall at the time, the leftwing Blogosphere was, shall we say, less than temperate in their response to Dean’s insight. But today, the center-left Politico Website notes that the Teleprompter is, as they call it, “Obama’s safety net:”
President Barack Obama doesn’t go anywhere without his TelePrompter.
The textbook-sized panes of glass holding the president’s prepared remarks follow him wherever he speaks.
Resting on top of a tall, narrow pole, they flank his podium during speeches in the White House’s stately parlors. They stood next to him on the floor of a manufacturing plant in Indiana as he pitched his economic stimulus plan. They traveled to the Department of Transportation this week and were in the Capitol Rotunda last month when he paid tribute to Abraham Lincoln in six-minute prepared remarks.
Obama’s reliance on the teleprompter is unusual — not only because he is famous for his oratory, but because no other president has used one so consistently and at so many events, large and small.
After the teleprompter malfunctioned a few times last summer and Obama delivered some less-than-soaring speeches, reports surfaced that he was training to wean himself off of the device while on vacation in Hawaii. But no such luck.
His use of the teleprompter makes work tricky for the television crews and photographers trying to capture an image of the president announcing a new Cabinet secretary or housing plan without a pane of glass blocking his face. And it is a startling sight to see such sleek, modern technology set against the mahogany doors and Bohemian crystal chandeliers in the East Room or the marble columns of the Grand Foyer.
“It’s just something presidents haven’t done,” said Martha Joynt Kumar, a presidential historian who has held court in the White House since December 1975. “It’s jarring to the eye. In a way, it stands in the middle between the audience and the president because his eye is on the teleprompter.”
Fortunately for all concerned, the advanced R&D department in the Obama White House is working on a more inconspicuous alternative.
Update: “TelePrompter Story Shows Another Way Old Media Covers for Obama.”
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53 Comments
1. Steven Den Beste:It sounds like Obama may be what Reagan was often accused of being by his opponents: an actor, an empty suit, who is skilled at delivering lines written by others, but who has no substance of his own.
Mar 5, 2009 - 4:44 pm 2. TheConservativeComeback:Obama is far from a magnificent speaker. He is a terrible speaker. He is a great reader.
Mar 5, 2009 - 6:45 pm 3. Jr:While I don’t exactly support Reagan’s well-intentioned attempts to save the economy in the 80s (keep in mind I was also little and don’t exactly remember!), I absolutely resent any comparison between the two.
Perhaps comparing Obama to Hugo Chavez would be more appropriate? Hell, that’s where we’re heading…
Mar 5, 2009 - 6:46 pm 4. Bert Convy:Obama lied and the economy died
Mar 5, 2009 - 6:47 pm 5. sarainitaly:Obama is a master at political karaoke.
Some of us have been writing about his teleprompter dependency, and lack of skill without it, since last summer.
I don’t know why some people are just now noticing.
Mar 5, 2009 - 6:49 pm 6. naguabo79:http://tinyurl.com/cnf367
When I saw Obama stumble trying to come up with some numbers and after realizing that he had no clue he said something like, hold on I can’t hear myself think, I knew he was not very bright. I am more convinced that ever that the man is way over his head in this job. We sure dodged a bullet with Sarah!
Mar 5, 2009 - 6:56 pm 7. David of Los Alamos:God bless Dean Barnett. We really miss him…
Mar 5, 2009 - 6:58 pm 8. Lily:I miss Dean Barnett. I’m sure I’m not alone.
Mar 5, 2009 - 7:04 pm 9. Greg Toombs:Obama the other day: profit and earnings ratio. ??
And I miss Dean Barnett, too.
Mar 5, 2009 - 7:17 pm 10. tbrosz:I suppose it would be churlish to point out that Rush Limbaugh routinely speaks off the cuff without much in the way of notes, not just for long speeches like that at CPAC, but for three hours every day on the radio.
Mar 5, 2009 - 7:35 pm 11. Jaibones:Advantage: Dean Barnett
It was ever so…
Mar 5, 2009 - 7:42 pm 12. Instapundit » Blog Archive » GONE, BUT NOT FORGOTTEN, AND STILL SCORING POINTS: Obama’s Teleprompter Addiction — Advantage, Dea…:[...] GONE, BUT NOT FORGOTTEN, AND STILL SCORING POINTS: Obama’s Teleprompter Addiction — Advantage, Dean Barnett. [...]
Mar 5, 2009 - 7:49 pm 13. bour3:They elevate. They enmesh you in a grander moment.
Not by a longshot.
I never once felt “elevated” by any of Obama’s speeches, unless you count irritated as elevation. I was sick of hearing his voice within the first month of his campaign waaaaaaay back there … a few years ago, was it? I never could, and still cannot bear to listen to him speak. He goes on mute faster than Dealing Dan the used car salesman, faster than Billy Mays the big mouth pitchman for OxiClean, faster to mute even than Vince Offer the scary @ss pusher for ShamWow.
We’ve known about his need for a teleprompter and his vacuity without it from day one. He purposefully sounds like a comedian’s imitation of a country preacher. He insults his listeners’ intelligence and I’m duly offended.
Mar 5, 2009 - 7:53 pm 14. BlogDog:Maybe Obama should get Kate Winslet’s academy award.
Mar 5, 2009 - 8:02 pm 15. Insufficiently Sensitive:Obama is a success as a slick-talking bloke who deals in glittering generalities when he’s spoon-fed them by electronic means. He also has the most dedicated support media since Pravda swooned over Stalin.
Out here in the west, we range from skeptical to suspicious to downright hostile to slick talkers who mouth glittering generalities followed by ’sign here’ or ‘vote for me’.
And excuse me, but he’s not a great orator, because he can’t get past his announcement that he’s not only FOR good, but AGAINST evil. Without specific goals, and the logic to support them, and the specific means to attain them, he might be a fine TV host – but a national leader he’s most certainly not. And the crowd of crooks who he’s dragged in from Chicago, who fetch and carry and act as enforcers for him, are hair-raising in their obvious intent to ignore the general welfare of U.S. citizens in favor of tribal warfare of their ‘good’ insiders against the ‘evil’ others.
This is very bad news, as long as all those Pravdas continue furnishing high-fashion clothes for our nekkid Emperor, and continue flaming those evil others. Guard your remaining valuables, and ready the tar and feathers.
Mar 5, 2009 - 8:02 pm 16. John Davey:Cheers to Dean Barnett. Gone too soon. Rest easy, friend.
Mar 5, 2009 - 8:18 pm 17. uhuhbama:Teleprompter Jesus!!!!
Mar 5, 2009 - 8:25 pm 18. RAH:Never could understand that he is a great speaker. He is full of Umm,Ummm. He is a very bad public speaker and never trained himself out of that. He is a good reader, many people like his tonal quality, resonant and smooth.
Palin who I though was great speaker, but many were irritated by her accent and folksy sayings.
The comment about Rush is quite correct many years of off the cuff speaking without fumbling. However in his CPAC speech, he kept jumping around, just like his radio addresses. So Rush’s speeches need practice.
Pesonally I though Newt’s speech at CPAC was superior in content , sarcasm and substance.
Mar 5, 2009 - 8:51 pm 19. Michael Ubaldi:Steven: Ronald Reagan was quite the opposite, shown especially in Richard Reeves’ otherwise unfriendly biography. Recitation, especially facts associated with policy, turned Dutch into the fumbling old-timer whom critics characterize(d) him as. But whenever somebody got him mad, or impelled him to speak out and off-script, the president was plain and powerfully convincing. Those quotations are almost too crystalline to believe.
They’re the kind of phrases our current president must memorize. Barack Obama is very intelligent, but he’s flighty and a disinterested interlocutor, whatever his skill in oration. Worse, he’ll have little reason to improve so long as the media pretends his mouth makes literature. The line I most remember from last year’s debates was his solecism, “green behind the ears.”
Mar 5, 2009 - 9:03 pm 20. Donna B.:#13 – exactly. Obama has never struck me as eloquent or a great orator or even someone who could better than a C+ (and that’s with the teleprompter) in Speech 101.
Why does everyone, especially those noting how bad he is without a teleprompter, insist on saying he’s great with one?
In comparison to himself, without one, maybe.
Mar 5, 2009 - 9:03 pm 21. Meremortal:A few questions come to mind…
Can one conduct a summit meeting using a teleprompter?
Has Obama already said everything that needs to be said about all subjects? I notice that his answers to questions almost always start with “As I have said…” Perhaps that should be, “As I have read…”
When will most Americans realize this Barney Fife with a suntan is an incompetent boob?
Mar 5, 2009 - 9:20 pm 22. bbb:Isn’t the point that H will not forsake the TelePrompTer, because he realizes that lack of communication skills was a big part of W’s unpopularity? You can snark all you want about the empty suit reading someone else’s text, but really, most voters are either too stupid or too busy to notice. They prefer it when His Majesty doesn’t “uh” his way through a speech. It’s probably worth 10 points in approval index to keep reading….
BBB
Mar 5, 2009 - 9:51 pm 23. Peter:I am about half deaf. In order to hear a speech I have to turn the TV up so loud that it really annoys my wife.
So I read transcripts, mostly. And the transcript of an Obama speech is like a double cheeseburger, hold the cheese, beef, tomato, onion and lettuce. And hold the, bread, mayo, mustard and ketchup, empty. An Obama speech is that burger. But empty sounds good if it’s well read. Empty ain’t so hot when it comes to saving our economy.
Mar 5, 2009 - 9:53 pm 24. Obama and his Teleprompter « Random Thoughts:[...] Pajamas media has the scoop on Obama and his need for a teleprompter. [...]
Mar 5, 2009 - 10:30 pm 25. John K.:Ahhh, Dean. I miss the “thick-as-chowda” dulcet tones of Dean Barnett. Gone too soon, my friend, like so many others!
Mar 5, 2009 - 10:51 pm 26. Kensington:I miss Dean, too, but I’m not sorry he isn’t subject to this disastrous president.
Mar 6, 2009 - 12:06 am 27. julery:BO looks like he’s watching a tennis match when he’s on prompter–I get dizzy watching him. I’ve never seen him tear up–he’s one cold fish.
Mar 6, 2009 - 12:07 am 28. Tom W.:Has Obama done anything right, ever? Seriously. Has he said anything visionary, correct, meaningful, or moving?
He uses his Teleprompter when announcing his appointees! Those are like, what, four-minute intros?
All you liberals and you stupid conservatives who swooned over this fraud: Get stuffed. The second I saw him, I went, “Yuck. Phony. Liar. Creep.”
And I was right! Hey, anybody on Fox want to give me a political consultant’s job for however many hundred K?
Mar 6, 2009 - 1:36 am 29. Jbl:Obama hates America
Mar 6, 2009 - 2:32 am 30. Stan:They elected a teleprompter.
Mar 6, 2009 - 2:34 am 31. happy1ga:Peter,
I also have hearing problems, so I read a great deal of transcripts and watch closed captioning for things like important speeches/announcements. It is extremely disturbing when you take away the person speaking, and their personality. For those who chastise Bush’s abilities at “speecifying,” they have sold him short for the last decade.
Mar 6, 2009 - 3:33 am 32. tom_p:Calling Obama a great orator with the crutch of the teleprompter is like calling an 8 year old playing “Guitar Hero” Eric Clapton.
Mar 6, 2009 - 3:40 am 33. stewlew:His great oratory is the thing of masters, like explaining to Congressman Cantor how he can be bi-partisan: “I won.”
Do not be worried though. I have heard rumors that The One’s eyesight is starting to go because of the teleprompters. Translated: David Axelrod has ordered the engineers at Los Alamos to create new glasses for The One with a heads up display integrated into it. Stand by for the new look.
Mar 6, 2009 - 4:00 am 34. windy blow:If you are speaking in platitudes and sound-bites, a teleprompter is the best way.
If whatever you say is fawned-over by the leftie media, it doesn’t matter how it’s said.
If the audience is uncritical of anything but having their “hopes” massaged, most any words will do.
Mar 6, 2009 - 4:13 am 35. kiwikit:So why, as long as he uses the teleprompter, should we EVER listen to one of his
Mar 6, 2009 - 4:16 am 36. Jamie:performances? Reading the transcript is much more meaningful, and economical.
Maybe his new glasses can include the teleprompter to ease the pretense of the media that he’s ad-libbing.
“Political karaoke” sounds like best-in-thread to me… followed closely by the Guitar Hero reference. Bravo e brava!
Mar 6, 2009 - 4:29 am 37. ribbit:That telepromter is his binkie or security blanket. The man possess’ very little knowledge and without the promter shows his reality. And to those that claim he writes his own speeches, one must ask did he write his own autobio’s?
Mar 6, 2009 - 4:37 am 38. retiredsarge:It is amazing how many of my ultra-liberal friends continue to defend Obama as the greatest speaker of all times. I keep telling them that he is an empty suit without the teleprompter. I really wonder who is moving his lips when he talks. I know his head is on a swivel – left and right, left and right.
Mar 6, 2009 - 5:08 am 39. ajacksonian:Dean Barnett the happy warrior, we do miss him so.
The few times President Obama has been without teleprompter he has been chaotic in thought and speech, contradicting himself and his past statements, and unsteady. Even the Bloviator O’Reilly was able to throw him off and O’Reilly was doing his ‘nice act’ to boot. If you can’t hold your ideas to someone soliciting them, who is just playing ‘devil’s advocate’ then you are not going to do well in much of anything. His ‘great speech’ du jour tend to be pap and no matter how well he intones the words, the ideas are a pure mess. Now that he tries to order them we get more debt and overspending in a month or two than in the entire period of history of our fair Nation. In a mere three weeks he spent more than all of Iraq, Afghanistan and Katrina aid, and yet supporters still try to point out the ‘cost’ of Iraq which was 1% or less of GDP per year and that same amount in total for the total GDP over that time. Long ago the spending passed 5% and it continues to spiral upwards and GDP race downwards until they pass each other. Where are those ever worried at the cost of war when this happens? Still complaining about the war, unable to ‘move on’ and Stuck On Stupid.
Yet the telemprompter candidate speaks, but fewer are swooning as they see the money move from their future into the government’s hands and budget. There is no comparison with the past, and when the solution makes things worse it is the responsibility of the one who pushes it forward and cannot be blamed on others. The past is now history and we must live with it, yet his supporters cling to it in hopes those days just might return as it sinks deeper and deeper from sunlight, air and life. Too bad they are grasping the leg of the Nation to pull it down with them… I am sure the words are intoned ever so sweetly as they embrace the cold and deadly deep.
Mar 6, 2009 - 5:17 am 40. Parker:Thank God!
I thought he was talking to invisible people in the corners of my living room – so this news comes as something of a relief…
Mar 6, 2009 - 5:40 am 41. Sam:During UK Prime Minister Brown’s brief Oval Office joint appearance, Obama was caught looking at notes hidden behind a glass of water!!
Mar 6, 2009 - 5:45 am 42. Political Karaoke | Ocean Guy:[...] READER. As far as oration equates to reading, Obama is one of the best… as a commenter to Ed Driscoll [...]
Mar 6, 2009 - 5:49 am 43. alana:Give me a break, already! It was obvious from the very beginning that Obama was a POS wet behind the ears left winger, but it was the classic Emperor and his New Clothes. Except in the case of Obama, if anyone dared to call this guy out, they’d be given the RACE CARD pronto! No one got suckered for sure, it’s just a bunch of guilty white folk with their heads buried 6 feet deep in the sand. C’MON! And because of this utterly incompetent and stupid presidential choice, I and millions of others who saw through the smoke and mirrors and nose deep BS have to suffer!
Mar 6, 2009 - 5:54 am 44. Kelly:I’ve tried to listen to Obama and hear what others seem to hear, his soaring, inspiring rhetoric, but his speeches always leave me cold. There is no warmth in his voice. To me he seems disconnected from the actual words that he utters, if that makes any sense. Maybe it’s the lack of passion in his speech I’m hearing? In Limbaughs speech at cpac he seemed to jump all over the place, yet he spoke with such passion that it left you with no doubt that he actually believed what he was saying.
Mar 6, 2009 - 8:10 am 45. James Stephenson:Wow 44 comments and no one defending our Commander in Training yet.
Now that is amazing.
Mar 6, 2009 - 10:50 am 46. NC Mountain Girl:Obama is not an actor. Actors don’t use teleprompters. He’s more like an anchorman, reading other people’s words on a small set made to look grand.
Mar 6, 2009 - 11:35 am 47. Alan:I can’t believe SNL or other comedy show hasn’t run a skit with BO at a dinner party, playing parlor games or talking with his daughters all the while using a teleprompter!! In my mind this would be totally funny-probably would have been done already if Reagan or GW had been this dependent on a crutch like BO!!
Mar 6, 2009 - 6:21 pm 48. Robert:I also miss Dean Barnett. It would be great to have his voice as part of the conversation today.
Mar 7, 2009 - 6:01 pm 49. Stan:I think it was Dick Morris who said it was the media’s job to ask one question during an election campaign.
The question?
‘Is this guy really who he says he is?’
In that the media eagerly ditched their one responsibility.
Mar 8, 2009 - 3:24 am 50. boston:We need to know and remember these things about our Senator Kennedy…………..He is not a nice man or a very smart one!
THE LAST OF THE KENNEDY DYNASTY
As soon as cancer was found, I noticed the immediate attempt at
canonization of old Teddy by the main stream media…telling us
what a ‘great American’ he is.
I say, let’s get a couple things clear and not twist the facts to change the real history.
He was caught cheating at Harvard. While attending, he was expelled twice, once for cheating on a test, and once for paying a
classmate to cheat for him.
While expelled, Kennedy enlisted in the Army, but mistakenly signed up for four years instead of two great…the man can’t count to four. His father, Joseph P. Kennedy, former U.S. Ambassador to England, pulled the necessary strings to have his enlistment shortened to two years, and to ensure that he served in Europe, not Korea, where a war was raging…no preferential treatment for him like he charged
President Bush received. Kennedy was assigned to Paris, never advanced beyond the rank of Private, and returned to Harvard upon being discharged. Imagine, a person of his ‘education’ NEVER
advancing past the rank of Private.
While attending law school at the University of Virginia, he was cited for reckless driving four times, including once when he was
clocked driving 90 miles per hour in a residential neighborhood with his headlights off after dark. Yet his Virginia driver’s license was never revoked. He passed the bar exam in 1959…amazing!! In 1964, he was seriously injured in a plane crash, and hospitalized for several months. Test results done by the hospital at the time he was admitted had shown he was DUI; the results of those test remained a ’state secret’ until in the 1980’s when the report was unsealed.
On 19 July 1969, Kennedy attended a party on Chappaquiddick Island in Massachusetts . At about 11:00 PM, he borrowed his chauffeur’s keys to his Oldsmobile limousine, and offered to give a ride home to Mary Jo Kopechne, a campaign worker. Leaving the island via an unlit bridge with no guard rail, Kennedy steered the car off the bridge, flipped, and into Poucha Pond. He swam to shor e and walked back to the party — passing several houses and a fire station — and two friends returned with him to the scene of the accident. According to their later testimony, they told him what he already knew, that he was required by law to immediately report the accident to the authorities. Instead, Kennedy made his way to his hotel, called his lawyer, and went to sleep.
Kennedy called the police the next morning. By then the wreck had
already been discovered. Before dying, Kopechne had scratched at the upholstered floor above her head in the upside-down car. The Kennedy family began ‘calling in favors’, ensuring that any inquiry would be contained. Her corpse was whisked out-of-state to her family, before an autopsy could be conducted. Further details are uncertain, b ut after the accident Kennedy says he repeatedly dove under the water trying to rescue Kopechne, and he didn’t call police because he was in a state of shock. It is widely assumed Kennedy was drunk, and he held off calling police in hopes that his family could fix the problem overnight.
Since the accident, Kennedy’s ‘political enemies’ have referred to
him as the distinguished Senator from Chappaquiddick. He pled guilty to leaving the scene of an accident, and was given a SUSPENDED SENTENCE OF TWO MONTHS. Kopechne’s family received a small payout from the Kennedy’s insurance policy, and never sued. There was later an effort to have her body exhumed and autopsied, but her family succes sfully fought against this in court, and Kennedy’s family paid their attorney’s bills…a ‘token of friendship’?
Kennedy has held his Senate seat for more than forty years but,
considering his longevity, his accomplishments seem scant. He
authored or argued for legislation that ensured a variety of civil
rights, increased the minimum wage in 1981, made access to health
care easier for the indigent, and funded Meals on Wheels for fixed-
income seniors and is widely held as the ’standard-bearer for
l iberalism’. In his very first Senate roll, he was the floor manager for the bill that turned U.S. immigration policy upside down and opened the floodgate for immigrants from third world countries. Since that time, he has been the prime instigator and author of every expansion of and increase in immigration, up to and including the latest attempt to grant amnesty to illegal aliens.
Let’s not allow the spin doctors make this jerk a hero. How quickly the American public forgets what the real legacy is.
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Mar 9, 2009 - 11:01 pm 51. Ed Driscoll » The Bears Are Who We Thought They Were:Only the Court Jester (the “Fool”) could tell the King the truth without getting his head lopped off.
Never give in–never, never, never, never, in nothing great or small, large or petty, never give in except to convictions of honour and good sense. Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy.
–Winston Churchill–
[...] Indeed. Filed under: Bobos In Paradise, Capitalism, the Unknown Ideal, Oh, That Liberal Media!, The Memory Hole [...]
Mar 27, 2009 - 1:47 pm 52. Ed Driscoll » F-Word Spotting On Two Continents:[...] the ones who consistently pointed that the man who would be emperor had no clothes throughout the 2008 presidential campaign, as the left tied themselves in knots explaining why a rookie senator with less than one full term [...]
Apr 3, 2009 - 1:28 pm 53. Rdtgfpdz:L47HCI comment5 ,
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