121 Comments

1. El Jefe Maximo:

I wonder what the regular Army is doing? It’s far out of play on the borders of course, but certainly less trusted than the IRGC.

Jun 17, 2009 - 1:09 pm 2. Pajamas Media » So Now What’s Going on in Iran?:

[...] Read the entire piece here. [...]

Jun 17, 2009 - 1:10 pm 3. Cato:

Obama’s as unwilling to help as Ike was in 1953 in East Germany or 1956 in Hungary. It was shameful then, and it’s shameful now.

Jun 17, 2009 - 1:27 pm 4. Butters Dad:

Sorry, call me a skeptic, but something’s not quite right about this. I wish I could put a finger on it.

Jun 17, 2009 - 1:30 pm 5. David Thomson:

“Reagan got lots of deals from the Soviet Union, even though he denounced it most every day.”

Ronald Reagan never perceived the Soviet Union as a victim of Western imperialism. He adamantly believed in American exceptionalism. Barack Obama is a self-hating American. We are the meddlers who turned Iran into a land of internal friction and occasional violent conflict. Everything bad that is presently occurring is somehow our fault. Thus, it’s best that we remain silent and keep a low profile. The United States will probably only make things worse. May the Iranians forgive us for our past misdeeds that happened before Obama, the Anointed One, was even born. Unfortunately, I am being just a bit facetious.

Jun 17, 2009 - 1:35 pm 6. Paul M Hupf:

The President displays lack of courage by failing to identify himself with the cause of the protestors. That there are thousands upon thousands protesting the annunced election results, who are being subjected to physical violence, injury and death, should draw expressions of concern at the least. Instead all we get is “Wait and See.”

Jun 17, 2009 - 1:52 pm 7. james:

I agree that something here is amiss. What he says about Moussavi is correct: he is now the figurative leader of the opposition and will not survive if the mullahs prevail. I think it’s also true that this disturbance is no longer about the election, it’s about itself and the government’s response to it. And of course situations like this often lead to places no one foresees or even wants.
And yet… and yet…
What’s he missing?

Jun 17, 2009 - 1:56 pm 8. fear obama:

I hope the Iranians are smart enough to know that if millions of them don’t hang together they will most assuredly be hanged separately.

Jun 17, 2009 - 1:57 pm 9. Morton Doodslag:

In order to preserve the integrity of his narrative that Iran is redeemable, and filled with teeming masses of Muslims yearning to be “free”, Dr. Ledeen must assert without any evidence that the shouting from the rooftops of “Allahuakbar” are “chants of defiance”, a Muslim way of a mockery against the theocrats.

For the last three decades a steady stream of “analysts” on Islam has assured us in the West that we shouldn’t take what Muslims say at face value. When they espouse seething genocidal hatred for “unbelievers”, we are told they’re upset about how Palestinians are treated by Israel. When the same Muslims shouting “chants of defiance” are seen in their hundreds of thousands chanting “Death! Death! Death to America, the Great Satan”, we’re assured it’s only for theatrical effect, that Iran is actually filled with “students” who are (shockingly, preposterously) the ‘most pro-American of anyone in the entire Islamic world!’

We’re assured by these same analysts that there’s nothing particularly inimical between Islam and democracy — that the Mullahs of Iran (supposedly the most learned scholars on the traditions, laws, and religion of Islam) somehow have got it all wrong. That the geographic philosophical legal and political epicenters of the two main branches of Islam (which comprise over 90% of all Muslims) , the Saudis (Sunni branch), and Iran (Shia branch), can’t be understood as the best examples of what Islam really is all about.

We are told by these wise seers that these two nations at the heart of the two main branches somehow have perverted their Islam and turned it into something monstrous, usually for the most venal of purposes, but certainly not because Islam at its heart is anything like Saudi Arabia or Iran.

Enough! These analysts and their opinions have prevented us from grasping our peril as the Islamic threat has grown. We have been betrayed by these “analysts”. It’s time to ignore them and to listen to the likes of Robert Spencer, a man who has NOT been peddling this dangerous swill for decades.

Jun 17, 2009 - 2:03 pm 10. PM:

We have a president?

Looks like a deer in the headlights to me.

Jun 17, 2009 - 2:04 pm 11. fear obama:

6. Paul M Hupf:

are being subjected to physical violence, injury and death, should draw expressions of concern at the least. Instead all we get is “Wait and See.”

No no-

Dear Leader said he is ‘most gravely concerned.’

Isn’t that a light spread chicken sauce?

\\blockquote>

Jun 17, 2009 - 2:10 pm 12. tanstaafl:

As Obama discovered just today, America will be accused of meddling on behalf of freedom, even if we do nothing.

Yesterday, at least twice, Obama paid verbal obeisance to “The Supreme Leader”.

I guess such subservient remarks from the titular (ok, actual) head of The Great Satan didn’t placate everyone in Iran.

Iran protests “interventionist” U.S. statements

Jun 17, 2009 - 2:19 pm 13. Moogie:

Butter’s Dad and James: I agree with you. For some reason, I’m not ready to jump on the “Iranian Democracy Movement” bandwagon. Something is amiss, and I think Morton Doodslag has an inkling of it in his comment. What’s that old saying, “Your enemy’s enemy is your ally?” Perhaps, but for how long? I think in this case we are seeing two sides of the same coin.

Jun 17, 2009 - 2:22 pm 14. Self-hating Boomer:

Meet the new boss…

Jun 17, 2009 - 2:30 pm 15. glenn:

Soon enough the apologists for the fundamentalists will be telling us that this whole thing is about seaside homes and Mercedes cars. Then they’ll tell us that the fundamentalists are “somewhat more honest” than the students and that the CIA “may” be behind the uprisings.

Jun 17, 2009 - 2:31 pm 16. X Contra:

Mr. Ledeen, in the movement for Iran freedom, what will be the input from Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani?

Nobody is talking about al-Sistani, but maybe we ought to do so.

Jun 17, 2009 - 2:41 pm 17. Hotpatch 6:

The problem is, there are no “good guys” in this drama. If the existing Ayatollahs, Mullahs, Imams and other assorted Islamic tyrants are overthrown, what do you think will replace them? A better class of Ayatollahs, Mullahs, Imams and other assorted Islamic tyrants? What’s in it that will benefit us? We will still be the Great Satan, the “new management” of die-hard Shias will still demand the blood of Infidels, support of Islamic terrorist groups will continue, and the new rulers will be hell-bent on getting their nukes to cow their potential rivals in the Middle East. In this case, voting “present” is probably not so stupid – the Teleprompter may actually get one right!!!

Jun 17, 2009 - 2:42 pm 18. tanstaafl:

Current events in Iran seem to me a logical extension of widespread hatred of the mullahocracy, the stranglehold the religious authorities have on everything that happens in the country, the lousy economy & unemployment as the President & cronies use the country’s resources to pursue nukes, the hatred of the Ershad, the Iranian morality police…etc.

Plus, the majority of the population of Iran/Persia has never seemed to me to be, at heart, monstrously diehard Islamist, in the bad sense of the word.

Jun 17, 2009 - 2:45 pm 19. Saahle Manesh:

Butter’s Dad and James, and Moogie:
What’s missing is that “this Ain’t No revolution at all!”

This is just one faction of the regime fighting another faction -
People are being played with and victimized so that the EU/Obamullahs and John Kerry lap dogs like Mousavi/Khatami/Rafsanjani gang of 3 could re-take power and oust Nejad/Khamenei(Russian-Chinese faction within the regime).

No rioter is shouting “Death to the Islamic Regime”, nor “Long Live Secular Democracy in Iran” in these riots– Not at all.

Instead of yelling the stupid “Allah-O-Akbar” from roof tops(like in 1979 when the Islamists deposed the Shah); a real & genuine secular democratic revolutionary will yell and sing out the patriotic “Ay Iran” song — Not that bullshit “Allah-O-Akbar”.

Let’s not get too excited here, Something smells really fishy — this thing is just a regime-created farce so that they could guarantee their miserable regime for another decade or so by snuffing out and wasting all the pent up anger in people in a matter of days or weeks.

Jun 17, 2009 - 2:46 pm 20. Meryl:

This is a terrible time to have an inexperienced and foolish man as POTUS.

Jun 17, 2009 - 2:51 pm 21. tanstaafl:

We say “the mullahs”, but I’ve read more than a few times of Iranian mullahs who dare to express opposition to Khamenei & friends & the species of Islam they attempt to forcefully impose.

(geez, now I’m defending mullahs, time for a drink)

Jun 17, 2009 - 2:53 pm 22. Alireza:

WHY you have not posted my comments and links to pictures Khatami being attacked?

http://img44.imageshack.us/i/khatami1.jpg/

I’ll try this again.

Jun 17, 2009 - 3:00 pm 23. lefroy:

The foreign affairs establishments of Germany, France and the UK (under a labour government) have all spoken out bluntly about the stolen election. What has the leader of the free world given us? Gobbledegook.

Jun 17, 2009 - 3:33 pm 24. Marie Claude:

#19

tope là !

Jun 17, 2009 - 3:37 pm 25. Jayne Cobb:

I know I am sleeping easier at night knowing that Joe Biden is a heartbeat away from the presidency.

Jun 17, 2009 - 3:38 pm 26. Delia:

Well, there went another one of my posts into moderation oblivion. I might as well tap dance and do jazz hands.

Jun 17, 2009 - 3:52 pm 27. JED:

“We meddle because we exist.”
Great line! As the Great Satan, it is our duty to help tip the outcome and profit from their misery. “A crisis should never be wasted.”
Who do we want to win: The Russians, The Chinese, the Mullahs, the Jihadists, or democracy? What would the polls say, how about Greenpeace, and Code Pink? How can we tip the balance without leaving fingerprints for the European press and MSM? How can the president take credit and maintain popularity by doing nothing? This wag-the-dog will require a Harvard think tank: not.

Jun 17, 2009 - 4:19 pm 28. Professor Guvinoff:

After chaos, what? Nobody knows of course. In the absence of reliable information, the happy scenario presented by Dr. Ledeen is just as plausible as any of its tragic alternatives. At least it brings the question of human aspirations into the picture.

Far less difficult is the question of whether “say nothing” is a good option for the POTUS? I fully agree with Mr. Ledeen. “We meddle because we exist“. For this reason, silence not a real option, so how could it be a good one? Right now, our teleprompter virtuoso is trying to un-meddle himself by staying silent, in the same way as a toddler will try to hide in plain sight by covering his own eyes.

The question is not just a strategic one. In a situation like this, the moral dimension is paramount.
The ultimate escape to declare that “moral matters are above my pay grade” is only an admission of cowardice!

The man with the biggest microphone in the world, representing the hope of humanity, is afraid of saying too much. Some christian!

Jun 17, 2009 - 4:24 pm 29. kabud:

The gang that controls IRAN is nothing less then the joint venture of kremlin and Beijing

Another soviet republic it is.

Anything the false clerics do must be attributed to Russian-Chinese alliance

and if so called mullahs, who are just KGB officers dressed in funny closes, do something bloody:

kremlin must be named responsible

If President Obama is not going to tell our Nation the truth about it:

he becomes also responsible for any death that this clowns will cause to Americans or friends in the World

In 1962 KGB made their 1st attempt to murder Shah of Iran, luckily it failed

In 1979 KGB successfully took over country of IRAN and USA embassy in Tehran

this must be stopped NOW before many people may die.

The `invention` of Al Quada is nothing less then an alibi KGB created for a future attack on America, an icebreaker to provoke a new world war

Same goes for this so called IRANIAN `clerics`- nothing more then KGB officers

If we are not telling the truth to th People: we become resp[onsible for all the future crimes under the `islamic` masquerade cover or North Korean cover for that matter

Jun 17, 2009 - 4:28 pm 30. Saahle Manesh:

Mademoiselle Claude, Je vous donnes “High Five” now, and un autre ‘five’ when a la fin this thing results in strengthening, not weakening la regime grotesque Iranien–
The regime is identifying the system’s weak points through this bold experiment, and arresting a whole bunch of dissidents– And it is also claiming just the other day that “see? no demonstrator is calling for the Islamic regime’s down fall, just they have some gripes about votes and they all want to work within the system, not oustide of it”.

Where do you think this will leave the secular democratic opposition when this comes to an end with the regime still standing and stronger even? in the toilet, that’s where. Hence, the whole purpose behind this social stimulant. Risky, but so far it has born fruit for the regime big time.

Great bait, good fishing, and le peuple will end up holding the bag at the end with Eu/Obamullahs like Khatami/Mousavi/Rafsi et al back in power

Jun 17, 2009 - 4:31 pm 31. ella:

tanstaafl

You are right, there are mullahs and mullahs. There is, for example, grand ayatollah montazeri who was under house arrest for many, many years. for three decades, in fact. He could not go out of Qom, his followers were harassed, he was harassed. HE thinks that mullahs should keep out of politics. He yesterday said that election results were faked. He is not exactly pro-western but he is not connected with government of IRI.
What is going on may not be a revolution is the sense that mullahs would be thrown out of the political life of Iran, but it is still a great change. You are forgetting that it is very difficult to go against your religious authorities even if you are not exactly religious. And mullahs,the top mullahs, are Iranians religious authorities. It may not be the radical change. It may not be an overthrown of Islamic Republic and Mousavi is not really a revolutionary. But there would be change. Even a little change is better than no change at all, And I think that there would be a major change, perhaps not overthrown of Islamic republic but still a major change.
As for Allaho Akhbar – I think it is something in memory of revolution. It is more connected with defiance of government than strictly with religion.
At the end it may not be all what we want, it may even not be even a half what west wants but it will be some of what West want. And it is better than nothing. And it is what Iranian want…somewhat..
And we should support them because they are dying over there.

Jun 17, 2009 - 4:32 pm 32. Saahle Manesh:

Kabud;

You are partially right: Khamenei/Nejad and gang of ‘fundamentalists’ belong to the Cino-Russian oligarchy. We know that. KGB fed them the news of the planned Green coup d’etats by the EU mullahs, so they were prepared and staged their own counter coup by altering the votes.
So now MI5 and CIA have it tougher to shove Mousavi down Iranian peoples’ throats. But they won’t give up so fast.

Now, the ‘reformists’ like Khatami & his worthless brother/Rafsi/Mousavi/Ali Rohani/Yazdi(CIA)/Karrubi, etc. belong to the European(variety from Britain to Germany/Austria in Khatami’s case) traditionalist pro-Islamists. And now Obama has joined in with the EU freemasonary too, and of course people like John Kerry, Brezhinski and all the rest of baboons all support the ‘reformist’ mullahs and want IRI to survive albeit without Khamenei and Nejad gang.

Two factions.

Now they are fighting with each other to see if the EU/Obamullahs can return to power and oust the Cino-Russian goons(Khamenei/Nejad gang)Ayatollah BBC and VOA making heroes and ‘democrats’ out of Mousavi and his worthless wife overnight.

Remember in the Ghajar dynasty in Iran history: some mullahs belonged to British interest, some mullahs to the Czar Russian interest. Nothing has really changed in 125 years!

Jun 17, 2009 - 4:44 pm 33. ella:

Morton Doodslag

Who are the analysts? The same analysts who told US people long time ago that Russian people and east european people are satisfied with their lot? The same people or the descendants of the same people who where telling everybody that Polish Solidarity will go away?
As for genocidal hatred for the west – some of Iranians do hate west, some of them don’t. Iranians are in fact most pro-western people in entire Middle East. It is not saying much but that’s the truth. People in Iran do chant “Death to America” or “Death to Israel”, similarly eastern europeans chanted “Down with Imperialistm” ” Down with USA” long time ago. In both cases some of the chanters believed what they chanted but many just had to do that because in school they told them to that, because they would not be accepted in university if they did not do that or because they would got fired if they did not do that.

The threat of islamism and terrorism is real. What Mr. Spencer is saying is real. But there differences between many people of Islam. And many people in Iran are saying that the money spent by Islamic republic on Hamas and Hezbollah is better spent inside Iran. So perhaps after these events they, the Islamic republic, would spent that money on Iran and not on terrorist organizations.
Have you thought of it?

One should not expect this revolution to be on par with revolution in Eastern Europe, but one can easily expect change. Change for better – for Iranians and for the West.

Jun 17, 2009 - 4:58 pm 34. ella:

Saahle Manesh

Nice conspiracy theories which are so popular among the people in the ME. One may say that it is Tudeh-like conspiracy theories. Don’t you agree?

Jun 17, 2009 - 5:09 pm 35. Marie Claude:

Saahle Manesh, love your analyse, are you pro Reza Pahlavi ?

do you have site or a twittttt ?

Jun 17, 2009 - 5:13 pm 36. Myno:

Mr. Ledeen, your last line is brilliant! The whole of these two articles has been… beyond wonderful. Thank you.

Jun 17, 2009 - 5:24 pm 37. Hyphenated American:

Does it matter that Mussavi may be as bad as Ahmie? I think not.
http://hyphenatedamericans.blogspot.com/2009/06/does-it-matter-if-mussavi-is-as-bad-as.html

Jun 17, 2009 - 5:35 pm 38. ajacksonian:

Movements trying to establish the say of the people in government have an internal methodology that varies by people and events, but no matter where they start the events change the movement. This may start off with a rather mild ‘reformer’ but that was only what Mousavi was before events started to happen.

Before blood was shed.

And the people of Iran have demonstrated they are far more civil than the regime.

Not surprising coming from one of the oldest cultures on the planet.

The regime is what it is: a totalitarian thugocracy. I am not so enthralled by the IRGC who gave us Ahmadinejad, and who has been prepping them as a Nationalist organization to step very far beyond the ‘revolution’ they are the supposed guardians of. The regular Army is conscript and representative of the population, and is the least well paid of any of the military/terrorist parts of the regime. The IRGC has been prepping to stand up and make it appear that they are ‘for the people’… that has been going on for a few years to say the least. But they seek to come to power via suppression, not freedom. Thus the movement has a life of its own and there have been rumors of a split inside the IRGC as parts of it approach the Army to help protect the population. The regime is cracking. And if the Army shows up it may do a 1917 and join the people.

The Russians will probably be reminding Ahmadinejad of that. Russia knows Revolution. And what happens to the forces closest to the regime when the Army shows up… and showing Russian support for Ahmadinejad may just be their cue to the Iranian Army that a foreign force *is* backing the regime. Great joke all around on Ahmadinejad!! He gets the support he seeks! And the Russians hand him a Revolution in payback for stiffing them on contract agreements. Ahhh… revenge… always cold.

Jun 17, 2009 - 5:48 pm 39. Saahle Manesh:

ella;
Tudeh is part of it: Mousavi is pro-Tudeh and was in the 80s too- Tudeh is really a British party. Soviets and Brits followed pretty much the same policy in Iran in those days(both anti-US hegemony.)
If you don’t agree, or want to resort to MSM labeling of things, that’s OK– your opinion does not diminish from the facts. We all learn as we go.
From your blogs above, you are willing to settle for Mousavi and another form of IRI, and you call that progress: you want to settle for the same frigging pig but with lipstick on and supported by the west this time — most secular democratic Iranians are not willing to settle for this farce you call progress.
We settled for “anything other than the Shah” in 1979;
and look what we got, we got a fascistic Islamist regime.
All “single point” sloganed revolutions end up in melarkey and BS liek we have now. It was only “Death to the Shah” in 1979, and now it’s only “Death to Dictator”. Nothing else about anything else in the slogans, no “Long Live secular Democracy in Iran” and certainly no “Down with Islamic Republic”–
Im glad you’re happy with Mousavi, there enlies the problem.
But to each their own.

Jun 17, 2009 - 6:06 pm 40. Войска ПВО:

..someone mentioned this somewhere else on PJM but it is worth repeating; what an ironic title for the military forces close to the government: The Revolutionary Guard.

Jun 17, 2009 - 6:10 pm 41. Belmont Club » Who am I speaking to?:

[...] have not been more violent, but I doubt the relative ‘peace’ is sustainable.” Michael Ledeen says essentially the same thing. The regime is massing two Revolutionary Guards divisions for an [...]

Jun 17, 2009 - 6:13 pm 42. Saahle Manesh:

Mdmsl. Marie;
Merci bien! No I am not “pro”-Reza Pahlavi, neither am I pro-monarchy, but I think RP speaks well about current subjects. He should be allowed, just like any other Iranian citizen, to be present in Iran’s political arena and have his say, and perhaps run for office if he chooses to.
I’m more of a nationalist, secular democracy advocate type.

I do not have a web site or blog unfortunately, and not fast enough with trends to already have a twit. I will see if I can get one though!

Jun 17, 2009 - 6:16 pm 43. MiamaMan:

I don’t want to be cynic, but I don’t see much here. It looks lime they are allowing the farce to continue so as to give it a semblance of fair play, soon the nocturnal visitations and arrests will start big time.

Jun 17, 2009 - 6:20 pm 44. Marie Claude:

Saahle Manesh

A question, had the State Department some interest in asking Twitter to delay their intervention ? methinks, SURE !

So this explains why the mullahs were complaining of the US interference in their affairs, while Obama was sanctimoniously saying, it ain’t my business

and Iran has become a laboratory for influences through portables and Twitters, so far these new tools have well work

But I don’t knnow who will harvest the benefits

umm, not us I guess, Sarko has voiced against the votes fraud, and our embassy has been targetted in Ispahan

felicitations to the State department

Jun 17, 2009 - 6:28 pm 45. Dan:

Why would the regime need yet one more method to get its opponents to identify themselves?

The regime knows who is with it, and knows who is against it, and has known for quite some time. So they would hardly need this vast drama to reveal additional leadership in the ranks of their opponents.

So the claim that this is all a contrivance of the regime, like the Trust Operation by the CHEKA, is more than a bit of a stretch.

This is it.

This is the greatest threat to that regime that I’ve ever seen. And they didn’t contrive this, for this is playing way too close to the margins for the mullahs, who know that if they lose power for but a nanosecond, they’ll end up like Il Duce, strung up by a mob intent on justice.

Some observers are proposing scenarios far too clever to be realistic. As the stuff of novels, such theories might fly, but in the real world, we’re really to believe that the mullahs intended to walk this tightrope all for the purposes of identifying the leadership of the resitance, as if they ever really needed such maneuvers in teh past to identify them and neutralize them.

Too much of a stretch.

Jun 17, 2009 - 6:39 pm 46. Commentary » Blog Archive » Brace for An Escalation:

[...] Michael Ledeen adds: The regime is massing two Revolutionary Guards divisions for an assault on the [...]

Jun 17, 2009 - 6:49 pm 47. Amber » Blog Archive » We Are at War With Islam:

[...] is revolution brewing in Iran, and the radical forces know it.

Jun 17, 2009 - 6:49 pm 48. AT:

Where are all the academics complaining about the pogrom at Tehran University? Where are the resolutions, lettters, boycotts? I don’t
see them.

Jun 17, 2009 - 6:52 pm 49. Morton Doodslag:

Ella I have thought long and hard about your formulation, but I reject of completely. The agony the Muslim world is visiting I. The planet is almost unparalleled — perhaps the 20the century enslavement by communism exceeds it in recent times, but Islam’s long history is one of hundreds of millions of murders, the current enslavement of over a billion humans, and a pan-glovlbal Jihad which is beginning to threaten all. Sorry, but I’m done parsing all the details, or searching for the regional nuance/pretext which always conceals the larger danger of Jihad which you Muslims pose in the world.

My thesis is only reinforced by your position and your post: no mention of Islam, or the Islamic tenets which long ago raped Persia and reduced it to a shattered Arap cultural satrapy (Islamic colony).

As long as Iranian expats fail to address directly the disgusting tenets of Islam, I refuse to listen or care. Fixing your hideously broken civilization IS NOT our burden, nor must we risk the increasing threats your civilization poses as it lurches towards genocidal nuclear weaponry and ME hegemony. Waiting for Iranians to confront the menace has not only proved useless, but has lured us down a treacherous primrose path which finds us on the brink of nuclear proliferation and probable terrorist nuclear conflagration. It’s one or two minutes to midnight, but you have not shown any capacity to confront or even name the cancer which eats you from within: Islam.

Jun 17, 2009 - 7:36 pm 50. keithacita:

dear leader says it’s ok for iran to have nuke power while not mentioning the greeeen crisis. it’s not ok for nuke power here in the u.s.

Jun 17, 2009 - 7:49 pm 51. Iran: Things May Get Much Worse…. « Cliftonchadwick’s Blog:

[...] Michael Ledeen adds: The regime is massing two Revolutionary Guards divisions for an assault on the [...]

Jun 17, 2009 - 7:55 pm 52. gus3:

Let’s see…

The United States invades Afghanistan in pursuit of the Taliban, under the command of President George W. Bush.

The United States brings down Iraqi thug-for-life Saddam Hussein, under the command of President George W. Bush.

The United States strengthens ties with the morally ambiguous House of Saud, under the policies of President George W. Bush.

If the Islamic Republic buckles under this trident of pressure, it will be fun to watch the MSM bend itself into all kinds of pretzel knots to avoid giving credit to George W. Bush.

Jun 17, 2009 - 8:00 pm 53. Morton Doodslag:

PS Sorry — you asked “who are the analslysts?” Here’s a partial list off the top of my head of “analysts” which have steered us into dangerous territory with their faulty analysis of Iran, or more broadly Islam. There are many many more but here goes:

Roger Cohen
Dr. Ledeen
juan Cole
John Esposito
Irshad Manji
Christian Amanpour
Farewd Zakaria
Meir Javedanfar
Frank Garner
Jonathon Steele
Daniel Pipes
Stephen (Sulieman) Schwartz

Jun 17, 2009 - 8:02 pm 54. dan:

i dunno, i tend to favor the deep-deception analysis proposed by kabud, but even these tricks can be overwhelmed if the People clench as one fist and execute the regime & etc. Tomorrow may reveal which it is. I wonder if the Iranian people are prepared to be hard enough…

Jun 17, 2009 - 8:22 pm 55. TLM:

Dan:

“And they didn’t contrive this, for this is playing way too close to the margins for the mullahs…”

I agree. You can’t control these situations. Once they start they take on a life of their own. The rationale for the protests, the goals, the leaders, everything may change in a matter of days. The regime must have some concerns about the true loyalties of the various security forces or this wouldn’t have gone on as long as it has. At this point, the future in Iran is uncertain, IMHO.

Jun 17, 2009 - 8:25 pm 56. Meryl:

45.Dan

Your comments are interesting. We probably get too clever by half in some of our perspectives, making the mistake of believing that because we (comparatively–to 1979, etc.) have “lots of information”, therefore, we can gauge what is happening and what the outcome will be…or even make a mistake in thinking we know what “the best” outcome is. None of those snakes who were on the ballot are exactly democratic.

In our busyness with our assumptions, we forget that events can actually mushroom over a period of hours and truly be out of anyone’s control.

Those right in the middle of the situation in Iran may be quite at sea themselves, absolutely without knowledge of what tomorrow will bring.

I suspect a certain percentage of our response/reaction to the situation is displaced anxiety about our own mess. We can fall prey to the syndrome of just wanting “something to happen” to change things. (Whoops. There’s a crappy thought. That’s how TOTUS got elected.) What a mess.

Jun 17, 2009 - 8:46 pm 57. kabud:

Saahle Manesh:

the degree of devious skill that KGB has is from the different level then any MI5 or pathetic and rotten with treason CIA

Kremlin NEVER ever left an inch of acquired territory.

Iranians have to deal with extremely , scientifically organized and experienced in manipulations and covert sabotage operations people

who killed over 100 million of their own from 1917 till the end of 50s

and another 100 mil around the world including but not limited to south east Asia

i know this people from ussr, i happened to know people from the soviet highest elite

Iranians have NO CHANCE AT ALL.

If USA is not going to admit the truth that those regimes in IRAN and N Korea are just KGB fronts- it is going to be very bad for all of us

Jun 17, 2009 - 8:53 pm 58. kabud:

dan:

if you read Golitsyn report to CIA on events in China Tenanmen square in 1989,
well but you think it is not a show to identify enemies.

But the same operation was repeated in every country of the soviet block in 1988-1991 EVRY single one from Ukraine to Poland, Checkoslovakia, Romania, etc

Why the do it:

there are multiple reasons, their policy is complex.

1.oil price and natural gas price is one

2.having a nice stalking horse to attack the West is another

3.venting out decent before an important operation will be conducted to make sure everyone who may be an obstacle is identified: of course

4.I may suggest the USA tried to help iranian underground and kremlin wanted to find out if it is so and stop it

5.Context of N Korea, Georgia and Ukraine shoul be considered

6.a HUGE military exercise is planed later for september in Belarus and at seas involving 3 Russian military fleets and several armies:

that may turn to be attack on some neighbors as well as military exercise next door to Georgia

last year we had so much signs that something is going to happen and it did: kremlin attacked Georgia

Since then kremlin had another military exercise in November, they actually launched 17 ICBMs!!!!!
some of them from submarines.

USA did not test ANY for at least 30(!!!) years

Russians doubled the numbers of military draftees starting since last year

This spring they supposedly drafted 300 000 recruits

It is a real mobilization guys. Something is going to happen.

God forbid i may be right. I want to be wrong.

Jun 17, 2009 - 9:08 pm 59. Faster, Please! » So NOW What’s Going on in Iran? « Snow Report Blog:

[...] via Faster, Please! » So NOW What’s Going on in Iran?. [...]

Jun 17, 2009 - 9:11 pm 60. Chavo:

my two cents:

http://houseoflove.chebellafiori.com/2009/06/17/to-the-children-of-iran/

Jun 17, 2009 - 9:31 pm 61. flickervertigo:

doesnt make any difference who won this election: we still need war with iran so we can close hormuz so we have an excuse to build pipelines to israel, the med, and europe.

we need to keep that oil from the chinese, and use the oil to fuel our armies as they protect israel as it completes its ethnic cleansing of the palestinians’ high ground in the west bank.

…and besides all that, we have a right to that oil because we’re the mightiest military in the world, and might makes right.

Jun 17, 2009 - 10:37 pm 62. flickervertigo:

all we have to do now is cripple whatever remaining non-proliferation programs we have going… for instance, the CIA pirates who are inspecting shipping for wmds.

outing plane and brewster jennings was a step in the right direction, but we have to ensure no clues pointing to the upcoming false flag are discovered by overzealous non-proliferation agents…

it’s not gonna make a real good story if we attack iran without having an attack on america to stir up support… the boys at dimona should be able to fabricate a little nuke with a north korean signature, and counterfeit documentary evidence of north korea selling a bomb to iran (remember iraq’s yellowcake from africa… that ploy almost worked, and would have worked except for sloppy staff work.)

all we have to do now is pick the target… nominations are now open for the joint israeli american false flag attack on america that will give us an excuse to bomb iran, close hormuz, and pipe persian gulf oil and gas to israel.

please keep in mind that the event should take place where major network television coverage would already be set up for live broadcasts, or we will again have to resort to a double whammy, the first whammy to attract the cameras so they can document the second stage live.

Jun 17, 2009 - 10:51 pm 63. flickervertigo:

all this comes under the heading of mr ledeen’s “creative destruction”.

“creative destruction” works, and we might as well keep using it, dont you think?

Jun 17, 2009 - 10:54 pm 64. Elroy Jetson:

“We meddle because we exist.”
You knocked that one out of the park, Michael. Nice.
Prayers go out to those suffering in Iran. May their bravery in the face of brutality at the hands of the Islamic mafia carry them to freedom!

Jun 17, 2009 - 11:10 pm 65. flickervertigo:

my posts 58, 59 and 60 were posted at stephen walt’s “foreign policy” blog, along with the following, addressed to mr walt:

so that’s the reality you guys simply cant talk about without jeopardizing your cushy positions.

it’s been an hour now since i posted that stuff at pajamasmedia, and not one pajamas knuckledragger has objected.

we have to assume that everybody knows what’s going on, and that they’d enthusiastically support another 9/11 if they thought they could get away with it.

and those are the people you cant talk about, because you are unable, for all your credentials as a “realist”, to admit to the basic reality of 9/11.

Jun 17, 2009 - 11:47 pm 66. JL:

Mihail Gorbatšov i USSR and F.W. De Klerk in South Africa both facilitated regime changes despite being part of their respective regimes.

Jun 18, 2009 - 2:31 am 67. dan:

kabud – i agree with you, but “a show to identify enemies” – don’t you think the regime knows they are widely disliked? seems like they could do it more quietly, unless they intend to machine gun the crowds. this seems like such an extravagant demonstration – why?

Jun 18, 2009 - 4:00 am 68. Gary F:

It would be too much to expect someone tied to ACORN to be anything but sympathetic towards a regime that fixes elections.

It’s evident that the excuse about not wanting to get involved and have the US become the issue does not work, Iran has accused the US of meddling anyway. Weakness and accomodation does not count for much in the middle-east.

Jun 18, 2009 - 5:25 am 69. David W. Lincoln:

Michael, remember the Velvet Revolution 20 years ago? It seems to me that the role Dubcek
played is akin to the role facing Mousavi. When
that is combined with one of Havel’s truism’s,
(I’m paraphrasing) about the role history thrusts on people, rather than the role they thought they would have: We have an opportunity
to perhaps see what might have happened if Dubcek lived longer.

Jun 18, 2009 - 5:31 am 70. Dero:

Awesome article. Definitely a breath of fresh air. Leading up to and in the aftermath of the Iran election I figured I’d be able to find lots of common ground with conservative writers for probably the first time since Obama has gotten into office. But leading up to the election the only things I saw were in the context of pushing back on the “obama effect” narrative (fair enough). And afterwards it’s mostly been “Ahmadinejad is an evil mastermind” type narratives, with no credit given to the protester’s movement (like that NYT piece you linked to… which seems to actually be outright making things up). And then there were the articles just predicated on bashing Obama. It was tough to find conservative articles based on actually examining this uprising. Most was just agenda seeking nonsense.

But this article breaks the mold. It’s informative and intuitive. Keep it up.

Jun 18, 2009 - 5:46 am 71. Terry Gain:

@Site Administrator,

This is a great site for comments. It’s one of the best on the web. Please don’t allow it to be tarnished with the inane, conspirazoid mutterings of a thread-killing, insane, Jew-hating truther.

That you dizzy, @ 58,59, 60 and 62.

Jun 18, 2009 - 6:43 am 72. Fred2:

Support the Iranians

Print out protest photos and use them as signs at your protest.

Send photos of your protest to the Iranian protesters.

Make it clear from the photo what city your protest is in. Stand in front of the Capitol or something.

Imagine Iranians seeing people all over the world holding up pictures of Iranian protesters.
Imagine people in Tienanmen Square holding up pictures of the Iranians…

Obama can help with this, by saying the right things.

Help organize this. Tell your friends. Tell your enemies…

Jun 18, 2009 - 6:49 am 73. kabud:

dan:

i see your point.

in my opinion there are people who dont like regime and may be (i hope)
those who can change it. I hope CIA or someone is helping.

May be they needed to figure WHO.

But it is not a simple game and not what it seems from TV screen

we have to look at strategic interests of players

Jun 18, 2009 - 6:56 am 74. tanstaafl:

…we’re really to believe that the mullahs intended to walk this tightrope all for the purposes of identifying the leadership of the resitance, as if they ever really needed such maneuvers in teh past to identify them and neutralize them.

Too much of a stretch.

Exactly. The regime hates embarrassment or any appearance that the society isn’t perfectly homogenous, and these demonstrations in the streets must qualify as a major embarrassment.

All the best to the disenfranchised of Iran today and tomorrow and in the future.

Jun 18, 2009 - 7:01 am 75. WestWright:

Terry Gain nails the prolific troll flickervertigo. I agree these anti-semites and freedom haters are serial ranters that don’t deserve a platform to spout their nonsense!

Jun 18, 2009 - 7:09 am 76. john samford:

“It’s been an hour now since i posted that stuff at pajamasmedia, and not one pajamas knuckledragger has objected.”

Prolly because no one understands what you are saying, what with your post being proof that incoherence is it’s own reward. Plus the norm at PJM is to let a fool continue proving they are foolish.
This is different from DU or Huffypo where 99.9 % of the contributers are fools and an inane, drooling, shuffling idiot doesn’t stand out.
Let me point out that you are at danger from the Mad Dog Mullahs (hereafter MDM0, not me. I just stop trimming my beard and carry around a Koran and the MDM will leave me alone. You they will hunt down. Religious fanatics DO NOT take prisoners. They execute the ones they capture. ala Pearl, Berg, et. al. So when your head is sitting on your belly, looking back to where it used to be on your shoulders, you will have only yourself to blame. Well, maybe Barry, who to steal a line, is a “Kindly soul in a spineless body”. Look it up.

Jun 18, 2009 - 7:16 am 77. flickervertigo:

who was it said in september of 2000 that they needed a new pearl harbor to kick off their project?

if they said they needed a new pearl harbor, that must mean they had a motive to make their new pearl harbor happen.

and when you get to means, well, that’s duck soup, given the GPS capabilities of airliners, not to mention PNAC signatory dov zakheim’s remote flight control system.

opportunity galore once these PNAC guys were installed into very high government positions by an election recount in a state governed by the president-elect’s brother and PNAC signatory.

if you tack on a couple more parameters in addition to the traditional “motive, means and opportunity”, parameters like character and prior convictions, guess who winds up at the top of your suspect list? …especially if you consider exxon’s association with the AEI, shamir’s statement that there’s nothing in jewish tradition or ethics that disqualifies the use of terrorism, and israel’s record of false flag attacks.

Jun 18, 2009 - 7:29 am 78. flickervertigo:

but the main thing is: securing israel, and to do that, we must get that persian gulf oil plumbed over to the med, through israel.

the only way we’re gonna do that is: close hormuz, and the only way we’re gonna close hormuz is by war with iran, and the only way we’re gonna get our war with iran is by staging another false flag and blaming it on iran.

simple.

it worked swell last time, it oughta work again.

Jun 18, 2009 - 7:32 am 79. flickervertigo:

it’s gonna be really tragic for you people who are shedding such crocodile tears over the heroic iranians who are resisting the mullahs… i mean, you’re gonna have to bomb them anyhow, no matter what, because even if you get a regime change, they’re probably gonna honor their contracts with china and russia…

…unless, of course, rescinding those deals is the payoff for all the commotion our media is causing.

might work, although it’s likely china, russia and —horror of horrors— maybe even the iranians themselves might have something to say about reneging on their deals with china and russia.

…but that’s what nuclear primacy is about, isnt it? …we can do nuke first strikes on russia and china, and that’ll be the end of those problems.

might, after all, makes right.

Jun 18, 2009 - 7:38 am 80. ks:

Wonderful article… Doing the right thing is never easy but the right thing is to support freedom now in every way feasible.. I agree the potential positive changes if the regime were to be toppled are so huge that it is staggering.

Jun 18, 2009 - 7:48 am 81. Saltherring:

The ‘One’ should drop Jimmy Carter from a heli, armed with a broken slingshot and a rubber knife, into the middle of Tehran. I’m certain he could straighten this out…after all, it’s just a misunderstanding, isn’t it? I mean, we’re all ‘good people’, aren’t we Jimmy? The Mullahs, Kim Jong Ill and his nuclear missiles? You contributed greatly to the present-day crises in Iran and N Korea, didn’t you Jimmy? Now where could you be, Jimmy, when we really need you?

Jun 18, 2009 - 8:19 am 82. Folklight:

The growing reformist movement in Iran has taken the world by surprise. The movement and the mullahs response to it is very fluid and evolving rapidly. Professor Mark Levine writing about Iran on the Brink makes crucial points: {“It seems that the Iranian elite has been caught similarly off-guard, and is still trying to read its own society to understand how broad is the societal discontent reflected in the mass protests. This calculus is crucial – in some ways more so than whether the results are legitimate or, as some claim, electoral fraud.

It will determine whether the Iranian power elite – that is, the political-religious-military-security leadership who control the levers of state violence – moves towards negotiation and reconciliation between the increasingly distant sides, or moves to crush the mounting opposition with large-scale violence. The religious establishment is itself split into hard-line, moderate and more progressive factions, each of whose members are tied to factions within the economic, political and security elite, producing a complex and potentially volatile set of competing and contradictory loyalties and interests. Ahmadinejad’s and Khamenei’s decisions in the coming days will be telling. If the official tally was in fact broadly accurate, then they will likely be more willing to agree not just to a recount, but even to a run-off election, if that is what it takes to pacify the angry protesters”.}

In a piece published in response to the events of 9/11 titled Melting Away the Matrix; Modernity, Terrorism and US Professor Levine passionately articulates his perspective of a desperate need for humanity to recognize and dismantle the “Modernity Matrix”.

{”Today we are all stand in judgment–not just the West, but the Rest too. Arguing that globalization has tied us together inextricably has become banal, but the events of this week bring home how much it has penetrated the imagined communities of race, class and nation. Unfortunately, not just Western policies or mainstream media coverage of the slaughter of 9/11, but also much of the critical writing on these issues has left unanswered the urgent questions of how to build alternatives to the status quo of occupation and autocracy in the Middle East, US hegemony in the world at large, and the widening cycles of violence they perpetuate.

To do so we all need dig beyond the easy symbolism of “freedom,” “democracy,” “Zionism=racism,” and other mantras and challenge a matrix of discourses–modernity, colonialism, capitalism and nationalism; what I call the “modernity matrix”–that are each based on the creation of zero-sum oppositions between (individual or collective) Selves and Others, us and them, and which together have supported a five-hundred year old world system that supports slavery in the Sudan and Mauritania and IMF bailouts, organized terrorism and “le peuple du Seattle” alike.

Like its cinematic counterpart, the modernity matrix has for hundreds of years both determined our social existence and sugar-coated the oppressive, exclusivist and segregated reality underneath the glossy propaganda of markets, democratic capitalism, development, and freedom. But unlike the movie, there is no “one” who can lead us out of our dark age; the task is our collective responsibility.”}

There is much in his logic I agree with however I have a differing perspective on the nature, scope and source of the world system he recognizes. I further believe humanity is totally incapable of extricating itself from the grip of this “system” whose origins and source of power operate in various dimensions or realms, being spiritual in nature. In short humans are caught in an epoch and universal struggle that has engulfed earth.

We have been given volition and can choose, individually or collectively, to resist this “system”. Being born in this matrix was not our choice, being of it and owned by it is optional. Through disciplines of logic and meditational prayer, the truths of Biblical teaching shine ancient light desperately needed in our confused “modern” era.

Pray for Peace….
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://www.meaning.org/news/matrix.html
http://www.iranian.ws/cgi-bin/iran_news/ exec/view.cgi/5/12824
http://www.biblenews1.com/babylon/babylo n1.html
http://allaboutgod.com/

Jun 18, 2009 - 8:30 am 83. Fragmentarian:

Both the president and the left have shown themselves to be incredibly tone deaf to anything but the sound of their own flatulence. Whatever happened to let freedom ring?

Jun 18, 2009 - 8:44 am 84. Iran Punditry Roundup « The West Coast Outpost:

[...] Michael Ledeen, author of “The Iranian Time Bomb“: I think that many pundits insist on thinking about the Iran-that-was-five-days-ago, instead of the bubbling cauldron that it is today.

Jun 18, 2009 - 9:29 am 85. Terry Gain:

Whatever happened to let freedom ring?

The term of The Great Liberator ended in January 2009. He was not replaced by someone of like mind because most of those who even thought of the great experiment in Iraq were caught in a 2006 time warp when they voted in 2008.

So now, even as young Iranians march with signs printed in English for our benefit the great American democracy, perennial defender of freedom, has been given over to an incompetent, morally stunted, history-averse, non-visionary Barackrazy, which won’t water the seeds planted by the resolve of his unfairly vilified predecessor and the heroes who served under him.

Jun 18, 2009 - 9:47 am 86. Jamie McCrimmon:

God… are Conservatives this blinded by ideological hatred? Right now the one chance for freedom in Iran is for the peaceful protesters to grow in numbers until they are too big to be “put down”. Obama coming out and officially endorsing or officially condemning anything right now is the quickest way to throw water on this fire. Obama’s Cairo speech has to be seen as a factor in setting the stage for what’s going on in Iran today. So, you can continue to bellow about our “inexperienced” president and you can continue to shout silliness about him not standing up for liberty, but the truth is it’s only taken this administration 6 months to make more progress in the Middle East than the last 4 administrations combined. 2 speeches… 1 revolution… What’s it gonna be like after 8 years of speeches?

Jun 18, 2009 - 10:27 am 87. LobeLog.com » Blog Archive » AEI Purge Provokes Neocon Smackdown?:

[...] on Wednesday, Michael Ledeen lashed out at Pletka and Alfoneh, calling their op-ed “embarassingly bad”. Ledeen argues that far [...]

Jun 18, 2009 - 10:30 am 88. Jamie McCrimmon:

LOL… “unfairly vilified predecessor”

Okay, sorry. I thought this was a serious site.

Jun 18, 2009 - 10:32 am 89. 1979 Redux? @ The Democratic Piece:

[...] occur.

Jun 18, 2009 - 10:39 am 90. ella:

@ MOrton Doodslag

You are putting together all of them. Esposito who likes Muslim Brotherhood with Daniel Pipes who says that Muslim Brotherhood is dangerous to the West. Jonathan Steele with Fared Zakaria, Mer Javedanfar with Juan Cole. It seems that you don’t know them if you think they all “steered us (and who is us?) into dangerous territory with their faulty analysis of …….more broadly Islam”. It is like putting Khomeini with Montazeri and Shah with Ahmadinejad……they all steered Iranians into faulty view of america, or more broadly the West.
Nobody steered US into dangerous territory, the west steered themselves into that territory as did Iran with their leaders.
As for analysts – if all of them had the same view where would we all be? In (old) Russia or China I guess.

@ David W Lincoln

There is one major difference between what happened in Prague and in other communist countries at that time and what is happening in Iran. In Prague czech people had a system which was imposed in them from outside. In Iran they have system which was imposed by nobody. That’s why today there are such a difference between Russia (they own system) and other communist countries (system was imposed).
there is also another difference – Iran system is theocratic and it is very difficult to go against your religious figures. Not only in islam but also in other religions.
And Dubcek, you was still a comunist, true, reluctant communist but still…………..

@ Terry Gain

How far mighty has fallen.!!!
btw america was always out of sync with Iran or perhaps it is the other way round – Iran is out of sync with US.
I don’t know whether to laugh or to cry.

Jun 18, 2009 - 10:46 am 91. ella:

sorry:
pls read
” there are such a differences between Russia (their own system) ” i/o “difference…..they own system”
“…Dubcek, he was still a communist” i/o “you was still”
tks.

Jun 18, 2009 - 10:51 am 92. Reaganite Republican Resistance:

Our False Prophet appears to have no idea what a golden opportunity he is passing up… overthrow this evil regime without firing a single shot… get their Armageddon-inspired nuke program off the world stage… and free 30 million people all at one time.
But the boy wonder is too stupid to see it… or somehow just doesn’t care?

And isn’t this what George W Bush told you was going to happen in the Middle East in the wake of Iraq’s liberation?

Maybe that’s why Barack Obama has so little apparent interest in finishing the job in Iran… no matter how much it benefits the US and free world.

Jun 18, 2009 - 11:17 am 93. dick:

I don’t want Obama to openly take sides, because – yes – this could backfire. (And perhaps he’s right that we don’t have a horse in this race.) I don’t want him to call for recounts or re-elections, because he has no proof of fraud.

But I do expect him to DEMAND that the violence against peaceful demonstrators cease immediately. That journalists and opposition politicians not be imprisoned. Merkel, Sarkozy and even Gordon Brown have made such demands. He must do the same.

Obama’s silence regarding the oppression and brutality is shameful.

Jun 18, 2009 - 12:30 pm 94. myth buster:

This is no false flag operation. This is the real deal. Now, pirating the North Korean vessels known to be carrying weapons is probably a good idea, but that’s another matter entirely.

Jun 18, 2009 - 1:14 pm 95. Hot Air » Blog Archive » Tomorrow: Tiananmen in Tehran?:

[...] came the Debkafile rumor, then Michael Ledeen started hearing things, now Tehran Bureau has this ominous update. Sounds like Khamenei’s getting ready to call out [...]

Jun 18, 2009 - 2:27 pm 96. Will Tomorrow Be Iran’s Tiananmen Square; Update : The American Pundit:

[...] Michael Ledeen: It seems that tomorrow, Thursday, will be the first big showdown.

Jun 18, 2009 - 2:48 pm 97. omg lol:

Britain, France, and Germany can get away with speaking bluntly. Do you want to know why? Because their statements don’t mean sh*t. They have no influence in the Middle-East out of US influence zones. This is much the same reason why most of the world ignores the verbal threats of “massive glorious retaliation” from Dear Leader Kim II, he doesn’t matter. Imagine Kim’s words from Russia, or from China. The difference is credibility and the weight of words. European countries carry none in the middle-east…

Obama must pick his words carefully, because the US has connotations in Iran. The accusations by Iranian state media at the moment aren’t taken seriously by anyone with their own brain. Open endorsement by the US will close us on one path. If the protests turned revolution fail after that, our job is made that much harder.

To dick- I was under the impression that Obama did ask for the protesters to be treated peacefully, though he may not have made it as directly.

I seriously wonder if these upsets in the Middle-East would have happened without a charasmatic and diplomatic figure (ex. Obama) in the seat. He at the very least by demeanor has made the public let down their guard enough to repick the status quo (Lebanon), or to make them more concerned with their own internal issues (Iran).

Jun 18, 2009 - 3:53 pm 98. Glass:

I like to support your optimism but not sure if you can claim that we get the blame for meddling in Iran’s affairs just because “we are the symbol of freedom.” Backing that glorious symbol are also millions of dollars that support groups that are seeking to overthrow Iran’s government.

Jun 18, 2009 - 4:07 pm 99. Conservatives would respect Obama more if he took a principled stand against a corrupt Iranian regime by doing its bidding. « The Edge of the American West:

[...] its sides, even though you don’t even know there are always more than two of them. Consider how incoherently conservatives have responded to official Iranian propaganda: Iran accused the United [...]

Jun 18, 2009 - 5:37 pm 100. frieda:

There is rumors that top Seppah leaders have been arrested and Moussavi and Kroubi have told people not to show up during Friday Prayers!!!

Apparently Khamenei asked Mousavi to stand next to him during prayers and he rejected!

Jun 18, 2009 - 6:25 pm 101. tanstaafl:

Obama’s Cairo speech has to be seen as a factor in setting the stage for what’s going on in Iran today.

It certainly seems to be considered so by Obama.

I can’t speak for the Iranians massing in the streets that appear to have determined they were seriously ripped off in an election that happened a week ago tomorrow, an election that has been in the works for months where the alternative to A’jad wasn’t perfect but certainly preferable to the crazy, glittery eyed one.

I have a hard time crediting these events to Obama’s obeisance to Izz-lam offered up a week or so before that in Cairo.

Jun 18, 2009 - 6:32 pm 102. tanstaafl:

I got up about 4 a.m. to watch obama’s Cairo speech.

His remarks about women being barred from wearing hijab (he said “hajib”) in some western countries being unfair (France, as you may know, has laws against outwardly sporting religious symbols/garb) seemed very naive (not to mention wrong) and he seemed to be pandering to, even slavering over, Izz-LAM. (he tries to be authentic and he also says Pockey-stan when referring to Pakistan)

I don’t recall much mention of Iran (if any)in the Cairo speech or any mention of an upcoming opportunity for a loosening and freedom from oppression that might come with a decent & free election there.

Jun 18, 2009 - 7:00 pm 103. Ci immischiamo perché esistiamo | Distanti saluti:

[...] del XX secolo è stato l’esercito americano – scrive cose da inguaribilmente ottimista, facendo un discorso da vero neo-con, un bel discorso (da leggere tutto), un discorso che finisce così: Come Obama ha scoperto oggi, [...]

Jun 18, 2009 - 7:09 pm 104. Turbeaux:

Of course, Obama will not do anything whatsoever to anger the Grand Ayatollah Khamenei and President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad in light of the protest taking place in Iran today because that could result in the insurgency being reignited in Iraq.

I’m betting and I don’t think it is that much of a bet that, per the Iraqi Surrender Group recommendations, the Bush administration quietly negotiated a secret deal through back channels with Iran and Syria to stop the insurgencies in Iraq at the same time that they were also implementing the surge in Iraq strategy.

I’m also betting that the Obama administration later inherited the deal and is fully complying with it since Lee Hamilton, the co-chair of the Iraqi Surrender Group with Jim Baker, is one of Obama’s long time mentors and closest confidants. In fact, most of the Israel bashers on Obama’s National Security Council are Lee Hamilton protégés.

I’m also betting that in order to entice Iran and Syria into stopping the insurgencies in Iraq, the Bush administration, per the Iraqi Surrender Group’s recommendations, promised Iran and Syria that the US would not make any attempts whatsoever to destroy Iran’s nuclear weapons program, that the US would stop the Israelis from attacking Iran’s nuclear weapons program, and that the US would also get the Golan Heights returned back to Syria.

I’m also betting that Iran and Syria both agreed to this deal and thus the success of the surge in Iraq was guaranteed.

Therefore, Obama will not show any solidarity whatsoever with the people protesting for freedom in Iran today because to do so might jeopardize the secret deal between our three respective countries and that could result in the insurgency in Iraq being reignited.

Meanwhile, the Jews and Israel get the shaft as always. The American people get the shaft big time too, because now there will be a nuclear-armed Iran and all that entails. The Sunni Islamic world will race to get nukes ASAP to counter a Shi’a armed Iran, the NPT will no longer be worth the paper it is written on, and Iraq will inevitably become a province and integral component of the Iranian Shi’a crescent.

Yet, most people today are totally oblivious and believe that Iraq, a Sharia state, is somehow a victory!

Jun 18, 2009 - 10:25 pm 105. So Journ:

Is there no more recent (than the beginning of the year five years ago) info re: Hossein and ? Perhaps his blood cries from the dust?

Jun 19, 2009 - 7:13 am 106. David W. Lincoln:

Ella, two points. First of communism doesn’t only deal with economics.

Secondly, Islam isn’t only about religion.

Jun 19, 2009 - 8:17 am 107. The Election Was a Sham — I Hope the Revolt is Not :All That Is Necessary…:

[...] Michael Ledeen, from yesterday: I think that many pundits insist on thinking about the Iran-that-was-five-days-ago, instead of the bubbling cauldron that it is today.

Jun 19, 2009 - 8:31 am 108. shiraz:

To “omg lol”: I am sorry to burst your bubble in that our brave fearless Iranians did not come into the streets to protest against the regime because of Obama’s speech in Cairo. I know most Obama fans and people flooded with his love would love to always credit him for anything positive that happens around the world any sign of change or courage, etc. But the fact is that we Iranians have been fighting the brutal repressive regime for 30 years and hundreds of thousands have given their lives, killed, executed, tortured, maimed, stoned, beaten and jailed. The millions of people on the streets of Tehran, Isfahan, Tabriz, Rasht, Babol, Shiraz, Mashhad, and all other cities of Iran is the culmination of masses of people frustrated and enraged for decades of miss justice and human rights abuses. The election has been simply the outlet where people could come out as a collective mass and show themselves to the world that yes we the people are still alive and still kicking and we do not take it any more!!!
So giving the credit of all of this bravery and courage to Obama is simply an affront to millions of freedom fighting Iranians. As a matter of fact talking to my 3 cousins who are all university students and among the freedom fighters I was informed that Iranians and specifically students and women movement have been planning for this mass protest back in the summer of 2008 and that my Obama lovers was way back before Obama was even our New President let alone his talk in Cairo!!!!
So please take Obama out of our fight for freedom. he has done nothing to support us and as a matter of fact the last time I remember he wanted to shake hands and negotiate with our killer regime!!!
I hope I have been able to clarify the role of Obama in our own lonely struggle against our oppressors to you all!
Freedom to all Iranians!
Freedom with our will and courage is around the corner!

Jun 19, 2009 - 8:53 am 109. Solomon2:

“After nightfall, millions of revolutionaries chant from their rooftops “Allah is Great” and they are chants of defiance hurled at the Islamic Republic. I cannot imagine a soft landing.”

I can. We must remember that these are professional revolutionaries. Just like good generals, they know when to tell their troops to retreat or surrender. This revolution could be even less bloody than 1979.

Jun 19, 2009 - 9:32 am 110. ella:

@ David W Lincoln

“communism didn’t only deal with economics. …… Islam isn’t only about religion.”
But of course, however that does not change the fact that Mousavi is not Dubcek, even by a long stretch and czech revolution was not similar to present Iranian protests.
After all Czechs did not shout “Long live Marx and Engels” in memory of changes introduced from outside, but Iranians shout now “Allaho Akhbar”in memory of change of their own – 1979 revolution.

Jun 19, 2009 - 9:33 am 111. So Journ:

Where is the outspoken grandson of the Ayatolla Khomeini, Hossein, of whom Michael Ledeen wrote in Jan 1995? Hossein had visited the US and cried out for the intervention (a desperate invitation for “meddling”) of a strong government to help relieve the unbearable oppression of the people of Iran. Supposedly Hossein was deviously lured back to his country in concern for the safety of his family. Has he been heard from since?

Jun 19, 2009 - 10:59 am 112. jodetoad:

Keep in mind that although Mousavi was selected by the mullahs, as being acceptable, that does not necessarily mean we know his positions if the game changes.

As a politician, he had to play by the rules in place at the time. He had to keep his statements circumspect to survive. If the situation changes, his actual beliefs may differ.

Mousavi is now a prisoner, along with his advisors. Anyone speaking in his name must also be circumspect, so as not to endanger his life.

So we are not in a position to really know how he would actually govern.

Jun 19, 2009 - 12:44 pm 113. Aussie:

I am amazed at the ignorance of some of the comments on this blog. For example: “these are professional revolutionaries”. What a load of….

This movement if anything has been a spontaneous response to obvious election vote rigging. I get this from reading the comments by Iranians, not Americans or Australians, or British – the people who do not understand the politics of Iran. There is no real similarity to the Velvet revolution. However, there is a lot of similarity to 1979.

All of the key players were revolutionaries in 1979. Mousavi was very much a part of what happened back then. Mousavi and Rafsanjani know the rule book that brought the downfall of the Shah. Already some of those plays are being made again – the shouting from the rooftops is a part of the same that happened back then.

It seems to me that some people are so offended by Islam that they cannot understand the message of “Allah Akbar” that is being shouted. It is a message of Ahmadinejad and for Khamenei and it is: you are not greater than God. It is a political message to the rulers of Iran, that God is above all of them.

The same is happening with the protests and especially the day of mourning. If the regime continues to murder the protesters then there will be more days of mourning, and more people will join in the protest.

The mere fact that so many are participating all over Iran is evidence that this is of the people. It is a movement that is growing in momentum, and it is already beyond the point where the people will listen to Khamenei and put an end to the protests. The people are no longer afraid of this horrible regime.

So what if these people follow Islam. Iranians without this horrible regime are amongst the most tolerant of Muslims in the world.

Jun 19, 2009 - 2:37 pm 114. Turbeaux:

I’m going to go out on a limb and predict that if the regime cracks down hard on the protestors and ends up wounding and killing a bunch of the protestors in the process that Obama’s response with respect to the crack down will again at best be subdued and tepid.

Jun 19, 2009 - 9:36 pm 115. brian:

I’ve been reading lots of twitter posts from people inside Iran and they don’t seem to want or care about what Obama says.

It’s an independant movement.
They also know they might be facing death today.

At this point based on what I’ve seen, Obama is irrelevant. That’s from the Iranian twitters.

Jun 19, 2009 - 10:00 pm 116. kabud:

Our Prayers are with IRANIAN PEOPLE

Jun 20, 2009 - 11:19 am 117. Francesco Costa » Nodi che vengono al pettine:

[...] cambiare il mondo intero». Non lo ha detto un pericoloso amico di Mousavi e del suo passato. Lo ha detto Michael Ledeen, uno dei neocon più aggressivi e “guerrafondai” che si trovino in circolazione, in [...]

Jun 20, 2009 - 12:00 pm 118. Linda:

I am completely appauled at the lack of performance from the world leaders in general. Afghanistan and Iraq were so important to make democracies out of them. What is the difference the Iranian people are telling the world that they too want peace and a more conducive society. Why isn’t anyone responding positively? Wouldn’t an Iran that is positive be more of an asset then the Iran we have now?

Jun 21, 2009 - 3:21 pm 119. bluemax:

good comments Aussie;

Jun 21, 2009 - 11:25 pm 120. Dave T:

And the president of the U.S. fiddles with his words while Iran burns. Dante had it right, “The hottest places in hell are reserved for those who, in time of moral crisis, maintain their neutrality.”

Iran is in MORAL crisis, Mr. President. The despots and their thugs are killing innocent people who only want a free and fair vote. It’s time to support Hope and Change for other people as well. If you cannot mke a simple and clear statement supporting freedom for the Iranian people, you are not fit to criticize the former occupant of your office.
Dave

Jun 22, 2009 - 4:07 am 121. cornell upshaw:

I don’t know what to say to the people trying to turn their country around and rid themselves of terany.
I know I am–we my country of America is behind what your doing to try to free yourselfs.
Don’t let the light of this young women go out, for the price she paid.
I can’t endorse anyone going out and taking a chance, that’s a personal decision. But, we I stand with you

Jun 23, 2009 - 11:30 pm

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