255 Comments

1. Alireza:

Thanks for your update. Yes there are certain techniques that are being used against Bassijis with motorcycles. One option is that people could carry about ¼ of gallon motor oil and some nails with them. As soon as they see these people, they simply throw the oil and nail in their path. Then they just watch for their fall, and follow up actions.

Yes, having the A. Sistani’s endorsement is a very big deal, just as respectful as A. Montazeri.

BBC radio also said that many of the EU embassies in Tehran are looking into having their embassies doors kept open while demonstrations take place around and near their consulates and embassies. Many of these embassies are indeed in the heart of the city and that makes things very helpful. This is an excellent offer, and for sure it will come handy.
I’m sure the A. hole Venezuela for sure will lock their doors.

I was also given a list of phone numbers and names of people related to the oppression. People that are related to intelligence wing of RG, Ahmadinejad’s protection team, Interior ministry and alike. I’m looking into it to see if they are accurate, and if so, I’ll post it here as well.

Jun 23, 2009 - 12:27 am 2. fdfasdfjshf:

“One thing seems certain: the Iranian people were right when they realized that nobody in the outside world would help them. They’re on their own.

Which is indeed a great pity, and a terrible stain on our national virtue.”

What do you think outsiders should do?

How do you know nothing is being done covertly?

Jun 23, 2009 - 1:24 am 3. fdfasdfjshf:

“One thing seems certain: the Iranian people were right when they realized that nobody in the outside world would help them. They’re on their own.

Which is indeed a great pity, and a terrible stain on our national virtue.”

International economic sanctions is “nothing”?

Jun 23, 2009 - 1:25 am 4. Pajamas Media » Lessons Learned From Ten Days of the Iranian Uprising:

[...] Read the entire post here. [...]

Jun 23, 2009 - 1:40 am 5. fdfasdfjshf:

Steve Schippert quotes al arabyia:
“…intrigued by the more freewheeling experiment in Shi’ite empowerment taking place across the border in Iraq,…”

Setting up democracy in Iraq nextdoor is “nothing”?

Jun 23, 2009 - 1:50 am 6. h'wood Indoctrination:

Will anybody ever listen to his highness BS again? Lets see his garbage cairo speech played against this.

`That free people should…’ Shut the F*** up obama! Motherf***in’ scumbag.

I HAVE NEVER BEEN MORE ASHAMED OF MY COUNTRY THAN I AM NOW.

F*** YOU TOO MICHELE,

Jun 23, 2009 - 1:56 am 7. h'wood Indoctrination:

fdfasdfjshf:
How do you know nothing is being done covertly?
HAHHHHHAHAHAHAHA
International economic sanctions is “nothing”?
While people are being shot in the street? YEP thats right. Nothing.

Will anybody ever listen to his highness BS again? Lets see his garbage cairo speech played against this.

`That free people should…’ Shut the F*** up obama! Motherf***in’ scumbag.

I HAVE NEVER BEEN MORE ASHAMED OF MY COUNTRY THAN I AM NOW.

F*** YOU TOO MICHELE,

Jun 23, 2009 - 2:00 am 8. Marie Claude:

Neda had nothing to do with the manifestation, she was blocked in a car with her music teacher, and wanted to take a few minuts of fresh air, when she got targeted (ie her fiancé)

I doubt that a doctor tried to save her we’ve seen her dying in the minut the bullet hitted her.

http://bit.ly/3atQdH

Jun 23, 2009 - 2:28 am 9. Gary Ogletree:

Today’s general strike looks like a showdown. The thugocracy threatens to fire everyone. I hope the people call their bluff.

Jun 23, 2009 - 3:58 am 10. BillJ:

And what’s on the steel waffle’s agenda today? Oh yeah, He’s scheduled to smell the roses–

Jun 23, 2009 - 4:20 am 11. Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani on the move? « X Contra:

[...] Please! Monday Night and Tuesday Morning in Iran June 23, 2009Let’s review the bidding, shall we?

Jun 23, 2009 - 4:45 am 12. X Contra:

Good.

I have been asking about Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani since Wednesday last week. I am glad Al Arabiya read my blog and then went out and got an answer for me!

I slipped a few blurbs from this column into my web log, too. Excellent.

Jun 23, 2009 - 4:51 am 13. Terry Gain:

In the meantime the Chicago thug has invited representatives of this terrorist nation to the White House to celebrate the Fourth of July. They flatter themselves by calling it a strategic decision. It’s a decision lacking in reason and with no understanding of history or human nature.

If Ahmadinejad does meet with Obama, he will give him the respect he deserves.

Obama refuses to speak out in favor of democracy because he was doesn’t want to hurt his chances of sweet talking the mullahs out of their nuclear ambitions. The fact that his chances of doing this are exactly nil doesn’t factor into his strategic decision-making. He is delusional. And this is a stain but not on America but on all Americans who voted for Obama and refuse now to speak out against him.

Jun 23, 2009 - 4:57 am 14. vivo:

“One thing seems certain: the Iranian people were right when they realized that nobody in the outside world would help them. They’re on their own.”

When they threaten the world with nuclear weapons, what do they expect?

The innocent people are paying for what the others did. And the world is weary of saving every little problem.

Jun 23, 2009 - 4:59 am 15. flashoverride:

Freedom is not the providence of Americans alone. Our founding father wrote, “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers form the consent of the governed.

Our founding fathers did not say that theirs was the only form of government, nor the only correct one. That the head of our executive; the titular head of the American State, will stand idly by as the government of another nation, a nation composed of men and women not unlike ourselves, crushes the people in order to maintain power is a disgrace to American values.

There are those among us that believe that the countenance of evil in the furtherance of our own well being is a sustainable principle. Better that others fail in their pursuits of a government which derives its power from the consent of a justly government, lest we be troubled in their struggle. It flies in the face of our own national birth; of the French, of Lafayette and von Steuben. Our own freedom was not born of America alone; it involved a bitter struggle that pitted empires against one another.

And yet.

Today, we stand on the cusp of a new day – a new beginning with the Persian nation of Iran. A chance to mend that which we have undone. It is true that we once help subjugate the government in a cynical attempt at realpolitik; out of this, the seeds of discord grew the tyranny which the Iranian people now face. And yet, now that we are offered the chance to stand behind the movement which seeks to right this most grievous of wrongs, we again fall prey to such realpolitik. Better that the students be crushed than we are dirtied; now they deal with the inevitable legacy of our failure.

It is a disgrace. This is a sad day in American history, when the nation which has done the most to advance the cause of freedom shall stand aside and legitimize a despicable, tyrannical government. It flies in the face of our very own values. It is unfathomable that a nation such as ours, the greatest force for good in the world, shall now tolerate evils in the name of some temporary and fallible goal. Sacrifice the blood of young Iranian women and men so that we may entertain some fleeting notion of security? It is despicable beyond belief, and an anathema to the foundation of this great nation. We must stand up. We must enjoinder ourselves once again to the notion that all men are created equal, Persian and American alike; and that all men deserve freedom. This is not a call to subjugate the nation of Iran to our will, but to acknowledge that the power of government is derived ultimately from the people which it represents, and when those people are no longer represented, “it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness”.

Jun 23, 2009 - 5:08 am 16. rascalfair:

This list of “lessons learned” is incomplete. The number one lesson is that the revolution/protest movement failed because the people of Iran are disarmed. Many Americans understand that, which is why you can hardly buy civilian ammunition in the U.S. anymore. It’s not a difficult lesson….the government has the guns, you get the bullets, in the chest of sixteen year old girls.

Jun 23, 2009 - 5:21 am 17. Lawrence Kohn:

Joel Carmichael in March 1980 Midstream wrote about Arabic speakers among those taking and guarding the American hostages in Iran. He also noted that Arafat was the first “head of state” to visit the Ayatollah’s Iran. The news about Sistani is very important as is the possibility of a general strike (key workers’ movement involvement) and of course the role of women especially speaking out as you quoted. Still we need to keep an eye on the Russians-their people have always been around since 79 and Mousavi has close ties to them. Iran has been Russia’s wedge in its effort to gain Middle East hegemony ever since the installation of the Ayatollah’s regime. People don’t get the fact that despite the religiosity of the regime it is deeply connected to the KGB and has been supported militarily and in the nuclear field by Moscow through all the regimes since Brezhnev. Moscow sees Iranian Islam as a tool; the 26th CPSU Congress declared “the banner of Islam may lead to the struggle for liberation”. Mousavi also is close to Hizballah whose existence is rooted in the Ayatollah’s regime. Note its manifesto: ” We the sons of Hizballah’s nation, whose vanguard God has given victory in Iran and which has established the nucleus of the world’s central Islamic state, abide by the orders of a single wise and just command currently embodied in the supreme Ayatollah Ruhollah al -Musavi al-Khomeyni…who has detonated the Muslims’ revolution and who is bringing about the glorious Islamic renaissance…” (see Hydra of Carnage: International linkages of Terrorism- Uri Ra’anan et. al, Lexington books. Also check out chapter 9 in the book by Michael Ledeen on terrorism in Europe).

Strange, isn’t it, despite the Muslim rhetoric, to see the Bolshevik term, “vanguard”, applied to God? But then, during the hostage crisis, as Carmichael pointed out back in 1980, the regime agreed to release blacks and women because they are oppressed in America. What, he asked, does this have to do with Islam? It was standard Soviet speak.

None of the above has been written to suggest the US should sit still. The forces unleashed in recent days definitely include secular pro Western pro democracy multitudes. A loud and continual American support for freedom and democracy is necessary and could help. But, again, keep on eye on the regime reformers none of whom have freedom at heart and on the Russians, who seek hegemony via Iran and could live with a new regime so long as it continues the current regime’s foreign policies from Hizballah terrorism in South America to nuclear military development. But if the truly democratic forces have a chance to win the day, their chances are diminished to the degree the US refrains from citing its values and offering itself as a champion of democracy within the Islamic Middle East and accommodation with Israel in the region.

Michael, refuah shleimah.

Jun 23, 2009 - 5:34 am 18. Leo Appel:

Obama’s unwillingness to lead opens a great opportunity for others. Who will step up and be the Leader of the Free World? Sarkozy looks like the best bet. He should declare himself immediately. If not Sarkozy, there is a Stuart heir in Edinburgh who could declare Scotland free and himself leader of the free world.

Jun 23, 2009 - 5:39 am 19. Ms. Attitude:

10. vivo: The innocent people are paying for what the others did. And the world is weary of saving every little problem.

Many in the United States of America fail to see that we are NOT the world. We are defenders of freedom and liberty. Obama cares nothing about anyone but himself and he used the morons that voted for him. The people of Iran are not the “elite” so he could care less about them. He’ll cater to the ones he believes are most like him–the elite.

And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country. My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man.

-John F. Kennedy, Inaugural address, January 20, 1961

Jun 23, 2009 - 6:01 am 20. David W. Lincoln:

It is a very interesting road that is being traveled, one that has been shrouded in fog right up to the point of where you are.

Put another way, driving in pea soup fog and you can only see as far as the headlights, when you discover yet another fog bank.

The call for a strike fund has been made, and I am hoping that those who can make a difference take a look at what else Michael has been advocating, like a voice crying in the wilderness, and dust off those plans.

Jun 23, 2009 - 6:09 am 21. BizzyBlog » Lucid Links (062309, Morning):

[...] to believe nobody in the outside world will help them. They’re on their own.” and concludes his column by nothing that it “is indeed a great pity, and a terrible stain on our national [...]

Jun 23, 2009 - 6:15 am 22. kamarudeen:

Congratulations Ahmadenejad !!

You have won. That shows democracy is NOT DEAD in Iran. The American devils are trying very hard to discredit the results of the elections. Devils are always Devils. They will go to HELL. They are always trying to find ways to destablise Islamic countries particularly those who do not comply with their devilish behaviour. What devils they are !! Disgusting indeed !!

Jun 23, 2009 - 6:19 am 23. JHM dba ''Neocomradologist":

Q. Setting up democracy in Iraq nextdoor is “nothing”?

A. Well, to refer to what the militant extremist GOP has set up in the former al-‘Iráq as ‘democracy’ is undoubtedly a SOMETHIN’, but as to exactly what, well . . . . [0]

***

Possibly I misunderstand, though. This other-ranks pajamatarian (#3 _supra_) may not wish to attribute the ideological splendours of the Postinternational Zone neorégime [1] to Sultán Bremer and Khalílzád Pasha and Dr. Gen. Petræus of Princeton and West Point and the other famous heroes of (t)error who laboured valiantly under that broad pænumbra of supralegality and self-exceptionalism emanatin’ from the Boy-Dynasty-Party-Ideology Complex.

Given the contents of Grand Ayatollah Mikey Bin Ledeen’s scribble, it is just possible to imagine that one is being solicited to blame the neodemocracy [1] of the former al-‘Iráq chiefly on ‘Alí Cardinal al-Sístání. His Eminence of Najaf is not, I believe, entirely pleased Himself with that political mud pie, yet naturally such displeasure is no bar in fact or logic to neo-Iraq[1] being more His Eminence’s mud pie than anybody else’s. [2]

I doubt most pajamatarians even of the officer class have been payin’ much attention to the Postinternational Zone nowadays [0b], so the odds are long that Neocomradess Asdfghjkl meant anythin’ like the wild surmise with which I would thus sully her good name in the eyes of Party ’n’ Ideology. On a good day with the wind behind her, she might be able to identify His Eminence, more or less. Anythin’ much beyond that would presumably fall in the sphere of their Neocomrade Grand Ayatollah M. Bin Ledeen and their Neocomrade Prof. Dr. F. al-‘Ajamí,

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124563005022735881.html

and suchlike credentialled masters of Big Management Party neoëxpertise [1].

Now if one actually agreed with the superstitions and enthusiasms of AEI and GOP and WSJ (&c. &c.), I daresay it would strike one as becomin’ and ‘seemly’ [2] for a humble lay sheep like Neocomradess Asdfghjkl to take her Party betters’ word for the neodemocratisation [1] of the former al-‘Iráq. Life is short, and time wasted worryin’ about exotic natives and non-Zionist locals on one’s own is necessarily time *not* spent workin’ on how to win the lottery closer to home. Perhaps John Galt would have time to worry about both the near lottery and the far lottery, but we cannot all be Neocomrade J. Galt, now, can we? [3]

So if we attempt to evaluate a Neocomradess Asdfghjkl in terms that might pass muster inside the monkey house, there is nothing to complain of in her complacently believin’ what she has been told about “setting up democracy in Iraq nextdoor.” And it would be petty to question the neocomradess’s orthography, especially when she does manage to get the substantive nextdooricity right.

Political grown-ups may find it more rewarding, however, to wonder whether the Grand Ayatollah may not be settin’ up a possible _coup de table_ over at the Casino of Human Events. Should the evil Qommies overthrow their present _Rahbar_ or even, as His Eminence of Utter Jehádestán speculates somewhat ungroundedly, dispense with the _Rahbar_ system altogether, there exists some real danger that that fiend in human form, Barák Husáyn Obáma, will be given a lot of thoroughly undeserved credit for it. The Rev. Bin Ledeen appears to be layin’ the ground to hornswoggle some equally undeserved credit for Boy and Dynasty and Party and Ideology, along the followin’ lines: evil Qommies would never act like that (thinks little Mikey), if ‘Alí Cardinal al-Sístání were not around to advise them! But what would ‘Alí Cardinal al-Sístání be today, asks little Mikey, if the former al-‘Iráq had not been invasionised and subjected to a stringent course of occupational therapy by H*rv*rd Victory School MBA’s and other whizbangs of Big Management?

Thus AEI/GOP/WSJ/HVS (&c.) big-managerial invasionism and semiconquest and occupation *created* the Rev. al-Sístání, politically speakin’, and so of course any subsequent achievement of His Eminence amongst the evil Qommies or elsewhere must neoreally [1] be an achievement of and by and for AEI and GOP and WSJ and HVS. (And MOST assuredly it can have nothin’ at all to do with BHO!) Q.E.D.

A severe critic might criticise that if Grand Ayatollah Mikey Bin Ledeen does pull this nifty stunt off, given lots of luck and perhaps a little native/local help from the directions of Najaf and North Tehrán, he will nevertheless have done no more than achieve parity, undeservedcreditwise, with the unspeakable Obáma.

I reply: this is a thoroughly silly objection that you raise, O critic, considering the electoral disaster that the Alone True Friends of Wisdom and Virtue™ suffered on 4 November 2008. For their little Mikey Ledeen to get to play Tweedledumb and co-star with a Tweedledee who is President of the United States of America –who can call *that* nothin’? Who shall malignantly spoof it as a ‘neonothing’?

Happy days. (Or neohappy, as the case may be.)

___
[0] (a) “If you haven’t anything nice to say” &c.

(b) http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/22/world/middleeast/22iraq.html

[1] Wouldn’t it be a proper grammarian’s funeral for the Hate-’68 crowd if their pet prefix were eventually degraded by vulgar usage to the ranks of punctuation? One would speak of, oh, ‘neomustard’ in (say) 2035 and mean “‘mustard’ with shudder quotes around it,” or, more specifically, “that vile yellow gunk that Big Food has lately been pleased to market under pretence of its bein’ a mustard equivalent.”

[2] ‘Seemly’ used, as always, by gracious nonpermission of Her Imperial Highness, Princess Neoterica of Castle Podhóretz.

[3] No, of course we can’t! If we could, there would be no point at all in the way the late Miss Rand of Petersburg gushed about her neohero[1].

Jun 23, 2009 - 6:26 am 24. flashoverride:

indeed, kamarudeen: witness our overthrow of the Islamic peoples of Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikiistan, and Kazakhstan!! Indeed the Infidel is exposed!

Oh wait……..

Allahu Akhbar, brother. Nowhere did Allah state that his followers (the Ummah) should be subjugated to dictatorial rule.

You and I are brothers. La illaha ilAllah.

Alhamdulillah.

Jun 23, 2009 - 6:36 am 25. RJ:

The Iranian people: Aren’t these the people who have allowed and supported the demonetization of Ameria? Aren’t these the people who have sent to Iraq people and bombs to kill Americans? Aren’t these the people who have also killed Americans whenever they could during the last 30 years?

The Great Satan should do what? Come to their rescue? I don’t think so. And I don’t think Obama has a clue what constitutes a “great” leader as he plays his “lawyer” game on center stage.

If the Iranian people overthrow their government and then decide to modify their ways, especially toward America and other free societies, then we should stretch out our hands and test the waters with them.

Welfare doesn’t work, it only sets up people to play games of low productivity and low expectations.

Obama is a master at playing such a game. Americans should spend more time worrying about the damage he and his buddies are doing to this country than some Muslim idiots who insist on living lives of hatred!

Jun 23, 2009 - 6:47 am 26. Mongoose:

Hear, hear, flashoveride. Well said!

Jun 23, 2009 - 6:48 am 27. sheesh:

Wait a minute . . . I want to keep talking about why so many people hate Sarah Palin.

Jun 23, 2009 - 7:00 am 28. Instapundit » Blog Archive » MICHAEL LEDEEN: Lessons learned from events in Iran….:

[...] MICHAEL LEDEEN: Lessons learned from events in Iran. [...]

Jun 23, 2009 - 7:14 am 29. no hyphen american:

Covert help is needed in Iran. I sincerely hope it is there.

Obama is a lap dog of the powers of the Middle East..PERIOD.

Our prayers are with the people of Iran.

I do not know what else I could personally do, but pray .

Jun 23, 2009 - 7:22 am 30. jharp:

Wow. Relatively new here but am quite impressed with the coverage of Iran.

Does this mean you guys no longer want to bomb them?

Jun 23, 2009 - 7:23 am 31. Morton Doodslag:

Had we viewed the vast majority of non-murdering Nazis living under Hitler as mere victims rather than abettors of it, we never would have taken steps to ultimately crush the Nazi ideology. It is unclear whether these protesters in Iran are against the Clerical Regime – they appear to me to be devoted to the Islamic cause in any event

The Persian surrendered to the Arabs, deeply imbibed the poison Islam, destroyed their culture and allowed it to become a vehicle for the terrorists spread of Islam in the region. Iran is now one of the unapologetic epicenters of a global Jihad to destroy the planet under Islam. Being Muslim, they are not nearly as efficient as their Nazi friends in the methods of blitzkrieg per se,, but make no mistake, they are effective and lethal supremacists and hold onto those patches of The House of Islam which they claim quite fiercely.

I believe in freedom, and first want to secure it for myself and my society. The disastrous boondoggle of treating Muslims, who are the vectirs if Islam and Iihad, as victims of Islam who must somehow be saved by us, is a boondoggle which condemns us to endless cycles of sacrifice and loss of life and treasure in perpetuity.

If Dr. Ledeen or the army of other “analysts” were calling for the destruction of Islam in order to liberate Muslims from enslavement to their hideous ideology, that would be one thing. Instead he and a legion of others excoriates us for not supporting Muslims when they periodically and predictably become upset with the nastiness of their Islam and lash out at this or that respective target of fury. Today it’s Ahmadinijad — so what?

If tomorrow these Iranians continue to adhere to their Islam, cling to their green badge, the badge of Islam, continue ti shout “Allahuakbar” from their rooftops (not in “mockery” of the regime as we’re assured, but in a clear affirmation of their Muslimness), then tomorrow we will see these same Muslims lashing out at the more usual targets of Islamic hatred: “infidels”, Jews, and any they don’t consider sufficiently Islamic.

Those protesters aren’t clamouring to throw down the heinous religion of Islam – dressed in green and shouting for deaths under the Jihad battle cry of “Allahuakbar” they are asserting their Muslimness exactly like the Mullahs. This is not a “revolution” which will end the Iranian nuclear Jihad. In fact, it’s no revolution at all in spite of all the emotional claptrap and handwringing by learned Islamic “analysts”.

Jun 23, 2009 - 7:24 am 32. sheesh:

24 jharp . . . Ssssshhhh . . . Don’t wake them up. They don’t like it when you poke them with the truth stick.

Jun 23, 2009 - 7:25 am 33. Delia:

Thank you for the update, Mr. Ledeen. The beautiful Iranian woman shot and killed in the streets that has been being ‘played’ on the news has unsettled my spirit.

I hope you get some much needed rest before your operation.

☼

Jun 23, 2009 - 7:29 am 34. Delia:

24. jharp:

“Wow. Relatively new here but am quite impressed with the coverage of Iran.

Does this mean you guys no longer want to bomb them?”

Only if ‘0bama’ wants to. Right Sheeshers?

Jun 23, 2009 - 7:31 am 35. jharp:

31. Delia:

24. jharp:

“Wow. Relatively new here but am quite impressed with the coverage of Iran.

Does this mean you guys no longer want to bomb them?”

Only if ‘0bama’ wants to. Right Sheeshers?

Not at all. You’re a joke.

Why don’t you simply answer the question?

Jun 23, 2009 - 7:40 am 36. Liz Caldwell:

When is our first lady of the sweaters going to speak out for the women of Iran?

Jun 23, 2009 - 7:41 am 37. Lawrence Kohn:

I should have written re: vanguard, not that the manifesto of Hizballah applies the term vanguard to God (it doesn’t-it views the Iranian regime as the vanguard of Islam given to the world by God) but that the use of term vanguard is an old Soviet term for the ruling clique (and in fact was used by Yeltsin in his 1990 speech to the 28th CPSU congress to refer to whatever party in a new party system would become the leading group in society-as Putin’s Unity Party now has become).

Jun 23, 2009 - 7:42 am 38. flashoverride:

Had we viewed the vast majority of non-murdering Nazis living under Hitler as mere victims rather than abettors of it, we never would have taken steps to ultimately crush the Nazi ideology.

Wrong. We both crushed the ideology and then instituted the Marshall Program with the full knowledge that most members of the Nazi regime held no special alliance to the regime itself.

It is unclear whether these protesters in Iran are against the Clerical Regime – they appear to me to be devoted to the Islamic cause in any event

Wrong, of course, but never let religious differences stand in the way of a call for freedom, right?

The Persian surrendered to the Arabs, deeply imbibed the poison Islam, destroyed their culture and allowed it to become a vehicle for the terrorists spread of Islam in the region.

Wrong except in a limited sense; al-Qaeda and its most devote adherants are not persians but arabs, not Sunni but Shiite, but why let that ruin a good narrative?

Iran is now one of the unapologetic epicenters of a global Jihad >this part is truethis part is hyperbole<. Being Muslim, they are not nearly as efficient as their Nazi friends in the methods of blitzkrieg per se,

Wrong; they simply weren’t allowed, economically, to have the same freedoms the Nazis enjoyed in the pre-war period. And by allowed to have I mean breaking treaties they knew no one would enforce.

but make no mistake, they are effective and lethal supremacists and hold onto those patches of The House of Islam which they claim quite fiercely.

What part of the house is that? The Shiite part? Yeah, see, that’s not so big. It extends to their neighbor Iraq, kind of.

I believe in freedom, and first want to secure it for myself and my society. The disastrous boondoggle of treating Muslims, who are the vectirs if Islam and Iihad, as victims of Islam who must somehow be saved by us, is a boondoggle which condemns us to endless cycles of sacrifice and loss of life and treasure in perpetuity.

And so you believe that freedom is not, contrary to Jefferson, endowed upon all men, just upon you and yours. Way to be, dick.

If Dr. Ledeen or the army of other “analysts” were calling for the destruction of Islam in order to liberate Muslims from enslavement to their hideous ideology, that would be one thing. Instead he and a legion of others excoriates us for not supporting Muslims when they periodically and predictably become upset with the nastiness of their Islam and lash out at this or that respective target of fury. Today it’s Ahmadinijad — so what?

Today it’s the King of England, so what? Today it’s Mussolin, so what? Today it’s Hitler, so what? Today, it’s Stalin, so what? Today it Gorbechov, so what? today it’s Che, so what? Today it’s Saddam Hussein, so what?

If tomorrow these Iranians continue to adhere to their Islam, cling to their green badge, the badge of Islam, continue ti shout “Allahuakbar” from their rooftops (not in “mockery” of the regime as we’re assured, but in a clear affirmation of their Muslimness), then tomorrow we will see these same Muslims lashing out at the more usual targets of Islamic hatred: “infidels”, Jews, and any they don’t consider sufficiently Islamic.

Idiot. Because Indonesia is a god damn hotbed of unrest, right? And what of Tajikistan? And Kazakhstan? And Uzbekistan? And India? And Kyrgyzstan? And Malaysia? And Kazakhstan?

Those protesters aren’t clamouring to throw down the heinous religion of Islam – dressed in green and shouting for deaths under the Jihad battle cry of “Allahuakbar” they are asserting their Muslimness exactly like the Mullahs. This is not a “revolution” which will end the Iranian nuclear Jihad. In fact, it’s no revolution at all in spite of all the emotional claptrap and handwringing by learned Islamic “analysts”.

And this is why you are a douchebag, sir. You believe freedom belongs only to Judeo-Christians such as yourself. That is repugnant.

Jun 23, 2009 - 7:46 am 39. J. Rockford:

Another great piece by Dr. Ledeen, doing what the national news media is supposed to do.

B. Hussein Obama should be ashamed of his sorry response to the Iranian revolution. Americans should be ashamed for electing such a weak man for their President.

> How do you know nothing is being done covertly?

I guarantee the U.S. is doing nothing covertly. At this point all government agencies are deathly afraid to act for fear of being fired, sued, called in front of Congress, trashed in the mainstream media, or all of the above. The only thing U.S. Govt agencies are good for these days is harassing U.S. citizens.

Jun 23, 2009 - 7:47 am 40. Terry Gain:

Doodslag

I share your concerns about Islam but Rome wasn’t built in a day. Removing the mullahs is the first step to a secular society. The pro democracy protestors should be vigorously supported.

Jun 23, 2009 - 7:48 am 41. Delia:

jharp,

Visit the archives on PJM if you want answers, lazy butt and stick to the topic at hand.

Do you believe the Iranians will actually change anything with their uprising or do you think their blood-shed is just a depressing waste of time?

Jun 23, 2009 - 7:51 am 42. Mike_K:

jharp is a well know troll on other blogs. Thanks, Michael for the updates.

Jun 23, 2009 - 7:53 am 43. Delia:

Mike_K,

I shoulda known. *smacks self*

Jun 23, 2009 - 7:58 am 44. jharp:

40. Delia:

jharp,

Visit the archives on PJM if you want answers, lazy butt and stick to the topic at hand.

Do you believe the Iranians will actually change anything with their uprising or do you think their blood-shed is just a depressing waste of time?

Yeah, I think the protests will do some good. Though it is a long tough road.

A simple yes or no on whether you still favor bombing Iran would suffice. I’ll not look thru the archives for something answered so easily.

Jun 23, 2009 - 8:03 am 45. Michael Ledeen:

Brava! wish I’d thought of that.

Jun 23, 2009 - 8:09 am 46. barry youngerman:

Judging from what some protesters are saying, many elite Iranians (middle and upper class) seem to be embarrassed by their country’s growing ostracism and by the foolish and hateful things Ahmedinejab says. They are embarrassed by the wretched thugs who remain their country’s only open allies: Chavez, Kim, and the like.

The fall of the Soviet government was prepared by the desire of many Russians to have a “normal” country. This is the time for Western leaders and other opinion molders to pile on the contempt and criticism, in the spirit of Bush’s “axis of evil” speech. Unfortunately, Obama seems to be incapable of showing disrespect for the Iranian regime. Maybe someone should tell him Khameini is a neoconservative; maybe that will get his juices flowing long enough to actually use some real words.

Jun 23, 2009 - 8:13 am 47. captcouv:

Remember well that Grand Ayatollah al-Sistani is Persian.

Jun 23, 2009 - 8:16 am 48. jharp:

40. Terry Gain:

“Removing the mullahs is the first step to a secular society.”

An what makes you think you know whether or not the Iranian people want the mullah’s removed.

I’ll admit that I don’t know but have yet to see any evidence to support your claim.

I have a strong suggestion. This is an Iranian affair. We need to mind our own business. Which is exactly what Obama is doing.

We’ve got American citizen’s problems to address right here in America.

Jun 23, 2009 - 8:17 am 49. flashoverride:

“Removing Hitler is the first step to a secular society.”

An what makes you think you know whether or not the Iranian people want Hitler removed.

I’ll admit that I don’t know but have yet to see any evidence to support your claim.

I have a strong suggestion. This is a German affair. We need to mind our own business. Which is exactly what Obama is doing.

We’ve got American citizen’s problems to address right here in America.

Jun 23, 2009 - 8:29 am 50. flashoverride:

“Removing Hitler is the first step to a secular society.”

An what makes you think you know whether or not the German people want Hitler removed.

I’ll admit that I don’t know but have yet to see any evidence to support your claim.

I have a strong suggestion. This is a German affair. We need to mind our own business. Which is exactly what Obama is doing.

We’ve got American citizen’s problems to address right here in America.

Jun 23, 2009 - 8:30 am 51. sanssoucy:

C’mon, guys. “Iran About To Revolt” has been one of those news stories that needs the suffix, “… Real Soon Now.”

Democratic Iran is the “Duke Nuke’m Forever” of the political world.

Jun 23, 2009 - 8:38 am 52. jharp:

48. flashoverride:

You are a fool.

How about Darfur?

And please share with me what country Iran has invaded. And are you that ignorant of Iran’s military capabilities. Or let me guess, they have WMD’s. And we know right where they are.

And I missed the secular part earlier. I have you wingnuts figured all wrong. I thought you were against a secular society.

Jun 23, 2009 - 8:40 am 53. "progressive"watch:

The regime has Allah and Obama on its side.

Jun 23, 2009 - 8:52 am 54. Geoff:

35
“31. Delia:

24. jharp:

“Wow. Relatively new here but am quite impressed with the coverage of Iran.

Does this mean you guys no longer want to bomb them?”

Only if ‘0bama’ wants to. Right Sheeshers?

Not at all. You’re a joke.

Why don’t you simply answer the question?”

Looks like he forgot to switch his tag back over before responding. Gotta love the psyche of someone who comes up with multiple handles so they can have a conversation with each other.

Jun 23, 2009 - 8:59 am 55. Trouble:

“Wow. Relatively new here but am quite impressed with the coverage of Iran.

Does this mean you guys no longer want to bomb them?”

When did you stop beating your wife, jharp?

Tool. Stupid questions deserve stupid answers.

If you’d paid attention, you’d notice that the American right and center-right have been hoping and praying for this kind of thing for about 15 years.

It remains to be seen how it all plays out, though, and (beyond words of encouragement) it is difficult to know the right thing to do in a situation like this.

Jun 23, 2009 - 9:01 am 56. Ms. Attitude:

And I missed the secular part earlier. I have you wingnuts figured all wrong. I thought you were against a secular society.

Just one of the many things you figured all wrong.

Jun 23, 2009 - 9:02 am 57. Delia:

jharp,

If ‘bombin’ Iran’ were the topic I’d answer you. It is patently not the topic, so drop the shtick and stick to the topic, bubby.

Did you see the video of Neda [the young Iranian woman] dying in the streets after being shot in the heart as she gurgled and suffocated on her own blood? It was pretty heart-wrenching. A lot of the protesting has been dispersed and I imagine a lot of people are very afraid. Of course, I can only ‘imagine’ their terror and I thank God I’m American.

Jun 23, 2009 - 9:05 am 58. Delia:

45. Michael Ledeen:

“Brava! wish I’d thought of that.”

lol. Mr. Ledeen, who was that aimed at? I’m not being crass btw. he-he-he

Jun 23, 2009 - 9:08 am 59. Ms. Attitude:

jharp, you aren’t the brightest crayon in the box. Tell me who does the Iranian regime support? If you said Hamas and Hezbollah and many other terrorist groups you are correct. Where have they invaded? Look that one up if you don’t know.

The people of Iran would never have been the target of a military invasion of the US. We have a rather smart and advanced military. The bombs aren’t just dropped they are guided. Look up the GBU-10 Paveway II, GBU-Paveway II, GBU-15, GBU-23 Paveway III, GBU-27, and the GBU-28.

Yes, we could help the protesters and we could help them with their freedom. You and our dingy president fail to realize that not everyone in Iran are Islamic! DUH!

Jun 23, 2009 - 9:12 am 60. jharp:

“I thought you were against a secular society.”

Ms. Attitude:Just one of the many things you figured all wrong.

Great. I am thrilled to be wrong.

No more nonsense about praying in schools and needless lawsuits about displaying the ten commandments.

Chalk up a win for liberalism.

Jun 23, 2009 - 9:12 am 61. David W. Lincoln:

flashoverride. Hitler had to be stopped. Two of my uncles, both now deceased, were part of the liberation
of Europe and Asia from the trendsetter of that time of man’s inhumanity to man.

The elder was a POW for a year and a half, and the younger was part of Operation Overlord.

So, if you do not want to learn from history, then prepare to be called out on it.

Jun 23, 2009 - 9:20 am 62. J:

It is ironic that a democrat is not screaming from the rafters about “count every vote”…..wasn’t that the chant from Florida?
It is a sad day in the USA when the President cannot find SOMETHING to say about liberty.

Jun 23, 2009 - 9:23 am 63. Agoraphobic Plumber:

“Does this mean you guys no longer want to bomb them?”

I want to bomb them. But only if it can be decisively PROVEN that they’re doing the things that they are reputed to be doing (e.g. building a bomb). I won’t be swayed by “anonymous reports” and fuzzy satellite photos, either. We’ve been there, done that.

I also am not interested in sending in ground troops, unless maybe a few small seal teams to do stuff that can’t be done from the air. In and out, and no more. Because losers of both parties over the last few decades have ensured that there is no way we can afford more.

Under these tightly controlled circumstances and with very limited objectives, yes, I think we should do it.

HOWEVER…given that pigs will show up at flight school before any of these are possible, I think we should just wait and see what develops, and maybe cheerlead a little from the sidelines. Unlike many conservatives, I think Obama’s actions regarding Iran (although little else) are actually about right, though he COULD more forcefully condemn the mullahs and encourage the anti-mullahs.

Jun 23, 2009 - 9:28 am 64. Sherab Zangpo:

#50 FLASHOVERRIDE

YOU WROTE:

An what makes you think you know whether or not the German people want Hitler removed.

I’ll admit that I don’t know but have yet to see any evidence to support your claim.

I have a strong suggestion. This is a German affair. We need to mind our own business. Which is exactly what Obama is doing.

We’ve got American citizen’s problems to address right here in America.

Excellent point.
But there is no hope that the internationalist subversives will “understand” what you mean, quite because they… DO understand it perfectly: they just play the part of the total idiot because THEY WANT our enemies to grow stronger and stronger.

Poor Obama…he is doing what he can to help Chavez’ dear friends.

Thank you for the opportunity to comment.

Jun 23, 2009 - 9:30 am 65. Sherab Zangpo:

#59 DAVID

He/She was being sarcastic, read the posts before his/hers.

Jun 23, 2009 - 9:31 am 66. jharp:

Ms. Attitude:

“The people of Iran would never have been the target of a military invasion of the US. We have a rather smart and advanced military. The bombs aren’t just dropped they are guided. Look up the GBU-10 Paveway II, GBU-Paveway II, GBU-15, GBU-23 Paveway III, GBU-27, and the GBU-28.”

Yeah, right. It’s worked so well for us in Iraq and Afghanistan. It’s been 7 and 9 years and we’re no further along than when we started.

Jun 23, 2009 - 9:47 am 67. njcommuter:

What COULD the USA be doing if we so chose? Well, we could have our Information Warfare (computer ‘hackers’) digging into the government network to block the government’s monitoring systems. We could be monitoring the orders given to the armed arms of the government and leaking word out through various channels. We could be using our satellites to do the same. We could do that with full plausible deniability.

And if we could get at the systems that maintain security around their buildings, that would be very, very good. But I fear that those systems are not yet computerized and networked.

I’m sure that we have not yet destroyed all the AK-47’s we’ve captured around the world, nor all the ammo. We should be testing batches of the ammo to find what’s reliable and looking for ways to smuggle about 10,000 of those ‘revolutionary weapons’ into Iran, not to the government but to the populace.

As to the fellow who felt guilty for cheering the attack against the Basiji: his guilt is misplaced. These are your captors. These are the people who have been enslaving you. These are the people who have been sniping at you. If you have any guilt, let it be that their deaths are not swift, that you are taking too long before you go on to the next one. Or that you only cheering and not taking the next one down.

Jun 23, 2009 - 9:48 am 68. jharp:

“Be quiet,” Joe Klein said. “You (McCain) don’t need to do this…. What you’re doing is a self-indulgence at this point. Senator McCain, if he’s going to talk about this, should also talk about the fact that the United States supported Saddam Hussein in the Iran/Iraq war for eight years. Every one of those protesters out in the streets, every last one of them believes the United States supplied Saddam Hussein with the poison gas that has debilitated tens of thousands of Iranian men…. They blame us for identifying them as part of the Axis of Evil, with two countries that they disdain, the Iraqis and the North Koreans.”

Jun 23, 2009 - 9:51 am 69. David W. Lincoln:

Interesting interview at: http://live.radioamerica.org/loudwater/player.pl?name=wnd&url=http://feeds.radioamerica.org/podcast/DWP/audio/000007_010275.mp3

Jun 23, 2009 - 9:51 am 70. whataloadacrap08:

I didn’t see a whole lot of “greens” on the streets demanding an end to the Islamic regime or an outright revolution to depose the mullahs. There weren’t any “Down with fascist Shah!” style barbs directed at the Ayatollah. How blind can some commentators be, huh?
Those rioters wanted a rerun of the vote because they were steamed that “hardliner” Ahmajenidad’s victory over “moderate” Mousavi meant no relaxing of the regimes grip over their everyday lives. No more Western style decadent indulgences and keep that burka on baby!
If Mousavi had won, they’d still be calling us the Great Satan only then they’d be drinking wine coolers and wearing miniskirts while they burned our flag. IMHO all of the shouting about helping the poor brave Iranians is a cover for launching a strike against the mullahs.
Funny how we never gave a flying flock about them before, eh?

Jun 23, 2009 - 10:05 am 71. jharp:

“Funny how we never gave a flying flock about them before, eh?”

They still don’t. It just a flimsy excuse to bash Obama.

And how’s that working out for ya, folks?

Jun 23, 2009 - 10:09 am 72. Self-hating Boomer:

I have a strong suggestion. This is an Iranian affair. We need to mind our own business. Which is exactly what Obama is doing.

Pat? Pat Buchanan? You slumming here?

Jun 23, 2009 - 10:11 am 73. Ms. Attitude:

62. jharp:

Pull your head out of your butt and you’ll see that we are very successful in Iraq. The terrain of Afghanistan is not as easy and we walk a fine line with Pakistan.

I get sick of arguing with Liberal no-nothings who think they know about the US military. Maybe if you would’ve joined up instead of spending your time playing nintendo you’d understand.

Jun 23, 2009 - 10:14 am 74. Delia:

Hmm. I think freedom from ‘tyranny’ is the key here? People who risked their lives wanted something that perhaps even ‘they’ can’t put their finger on. The surge of anger and frustration and palpable hurt was there just the same.

Freedom is freedom. What does freedom mean?

Jun 23, 2009 - 10:23 am 75. Delia:

Michael Ledeen,

You’ve got mail.

Completely OT but, here are my upgrade wishes for PJM:

1). Log-in only posts with valid email accounts and only ONE username per I.P. with restrictions put on first time posters.

2). ‘Preview/edit comment’ options for those of us who are typo Queens like leetle moi [lol].

3). A three strikes and you’re out rule with regards to people who personally attack others here while adding nothing to the topic at hand.

There are even some truly cheesy gossip blogs that have these very basic features. I doubt I’m alone in wishing for the above 3 things I mentioned to be adopted here. I know it would take time and a huge change-over for PJM but, I figured I’d just wish out loud.

Thank you for hearing me out.

Jun 23, 2009 - 10:32 am 76. ajacksonian:

“These stories go hand in hand with reliable accounts that Khamenei has left Tehran for a mountain retreat…”

Well there you go, I thought that this was yet another of the mind-numbingly idiotic post-WWII totalitarian regimes that can’t learn a lesson from the war. But this is not the case with for Khamenei! He has learned the single, most salient, lesson of any totalitarian regime:

For a final redoubt to be effective one must actually be AT the final redoubt.

Hitler never did get to Kehlsteinhaus… thankfully…

Jun 23, 2009 - 10:33 am 77. Sherab Zangpo:

OFF TOPIC

Appeal against troll-feeding

After the perfectly organized subversive machine has been able to bring to the presidency of America a person who cultivated the friendship of terrorists, radicals, islamic radicals, I would think that we know that we have to do with a subversive organization that is solidly organized and seriously managed.

Instead I notice that many Readers here keep “answering” to the trolls taking EVERYTHING the trolls say at face value.
Please reflect on the fact that the trolls are just agitprop activists and they are here to pollute the debate, and derail any serious discussion.
The trolls do not present idiot arguments because they are stupid, they present idiot arguments to delay and disturb the discussion.

Ignore them, please !!!

Only FACTS, not discussions, can change the minds of these brainwashed machines: if an islamic terrorist will hit them directly, will hit their families, they will rethink the “beauty” of international subversion. No other “argument” is strong enough for these minds structured by lame ideologies and fed by the propaganda of their organizations.

It took decades to the subversives to produce this army of activists who know only what the propaganda machine (a.k.a. “school” and “university”) has forced into their minds. We will not be able to make them think. Thinking is a superior function, that requires a lot of work to be jump-started.

Thank you for your attention.

Please, do not feed the trolls.

Thank you for the opportunity to comment

Jun 23, 2009 - 10:46 am 78. Delia:

Sherab Zangpo,

AMEN.

Jun 23, 2009 - 10:48 am 79. Dean Kennedy:

jharp’s only concern is that Obama may not be able to steal enough money to provide him with ‘free’ health care. sheesh wants to keep people’s attention turned to the really interesting questions, like when Sarah Palin will stop her unprovoked hostility toward David Letterman.

Jun 23, 2009 - 10:51 am 80. Wolf:

One thing that seems to be absent from the reporting of Dr. Ledeen and from the comments is that the numbers of people involved in the demonstrations are relatively insignificant as compared to the population of Tehran and the remainder of the country. In addition, we have not heard of any significant sized demonstrations outside the city. This leads me to a conclusion that this movement/activity is not sufficiently well philosopically grounded in Iranian society in general to continue and attract more followers.

The protests are not so much about regime change, thus a change in philosophy in Iranian governance, but about the fact that the elections, such as they are, were rigged. Regardless of which of the personalities prominent in the election was elected, each is only a different page in the same book. This tells me there is an analytical component missing in the discussion. Just hazarding a guess, the Iranian people in general, are relatively satisfied with the essential elements of the Islamic Revolution and have no real desire to overturn it. Perhaps they only want to change from one form of repression as personified by. Mr. Amahdinejad and substitute the form personified by Mr. Mousavi (obviously my personal prejudices are coming out).

The Army, the IRGC, the local police (as well as the Basij & any imported thugs) all seem to be securely locked into the current regime. The major portion of the population of the country and the city of Tehran all seem to be absent. This does not make a revolution, no matter how hard you might want it. Truely, I don’t think we know enough to make hard and fast judgements about what is and what isn’t occuring in the country to formulate any coherent foreign policy pronouncements. While I have no currency for Mr. Obama, unfortunately, either by good luck of very astute advice, I think he is correct in being cautious about interfering, explicity or implicitly.

Jun 23, 2009 - 10:56 am 81. Kurmudge:

This seems to be a war between those who would like to see changes and egotists who like the status quo, meaning George Friedman at Stratfor.

Jun 23, 2009 - 11:09 am 82. Mark in Dayton:

It puts me off to see women wearing their head coverings. It puts me off seeing it in their muslim culture and infuriates me to see it in a free culture.

spit/

I wanna see these women take off their head coverings. I’ll know then they are serious about being free. Short of that they get no sympathy from me.

Jun 23, 2009 - 11:16 am 83. Hyphenated American:

A better question is – where is Dick Cheney? Why can’t he come out with a big speech on Iran and show to the world that Obama does not represent all Americans? Lets join the revolution. Why should Iranians have all the fun?!
http://hyphenatedamericans.blogspot.com/2009/06/what-iranian-dissidents-and-american.html

Jun 23, 2009 - 11:28 am 84. Focus:

44. jharp:

“I’ll not look thru the archives for something answered so easily.”

Put another way: “I’ll not work for something myself that I can acquire from another so easily”

Lazy, lazy man.

Have you stopped mooching of the work of others yet, jharp? A simple yes/no answer will suffice.

Jun 23, 2009 - 11:34 am 85. Marie Claude:

whataloadacrap08, Morton Doodslag

I dunno on which side these protestors are, but they didn’t like you, nor Israel, and they shout “death to sarkozy, the sionnist”
in last january

http://bokedou-an-hanv.blogspot.com/2009/06/iran-january-2009.html

Jun 23, 2009 - 11:39 am 86. Fen:

“What COULD the USA be doing if we so chose?”

We could stand back and not interfere, but ALSO be ready to tip the balance to the revolutionaries IF it comes down to that. What we CAN NOT do is let Iran fall back into darkness. All of these brave people would be executed. America would sqaunder a golden opportunity to reform Iran without bombing it. And it will be known than Obama could not accomplish with Diplomacy what Bush accomplished with Force. Huge fumble by Obama if we don’t save Iran.

Jun 23, 2009 - 11:58 am 87. Delia:

Focus, you gave the mouse a cookie and didn’t add to the topic. Tsk-Tsk. Nawty spankin’ for you [but, your comment did make me laugh he-he].

Did anyone watch the scary vid Roger L. Simon shared on his blog that Michael Ledeen linked too? I think my heart skipped a beat when I heard all of the bullets HITTING human targets. UGH.

Jun 23, 2009 - 11:59 am 88. BettyBlue:

Ignore the trolls. They’re not here to debate, they’re here to spread agitprop, either because they’re paid to do, or they’re doing it for free, all to further “the cause.”

Ignore them.

Jun 23, 2009 - 12:00 pm 89. Thomas L......:

Sherab – Heck, I don’t want to debate with them any more than I want to bang my head against a wall. They don’t debate, they just call us names. May I, at least call them funny names in return, based on their, well, funny names? Hey wait! You have a funny name, as well. Now what?
If it makes everyone happier, I’ll no longer use “fragmentarian”. It was the best I could come with to describe my politics, which are basically the opposite of all totalitarianisms.

Jun 23, 2009 - 12:00 pm 90. Delia:

Oh lovely. A special ‘court’ is being set up to make an ‘example’ of some of the protesters.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31499296/

Jun 23, 2009 - 12:02 pm 91. Delia:

Whoops. I made the mistake of sharing a link which [understandably] automatically goes into moderation status.

Here’s what I posted without a link:

O”h lovely. A special ‘court’ is being set up to make an ‘example’ of some of the protesters.”

You can google to find the links.

Jun 23, 2009 - 12:04 pm 92. jharp:

Fen: “America would sqaunder a golden opportunity to reform Iran without bombing it.”

Put the crack pipe away.

The U.S. reform Iran? We tried that before. And it’d didn’t turn out too good.

“the United States supported Saddam Hussein in the Iran/Iraq war for eight years. Every one of those protesters out in the streets, every last one of them believes the United States supplied Saddam Hussein with the poison gas that has debilitated tens of thousands of Iranian men…. They blame us for identifying them as part of the Axis of Evil, with two countries that they disdain, the Iraqis and the North Koreans.””

You are a lunatic.

Jun 23, 2009 - 12:06 pm 93. Bohemond:

It’s really hysterically funny, watching Obamatrons tie themselves in knots trying to spin The Won’s clueless waffling and mullass-kissing as ‘wisdom.’

This is the Being There presidency, where Chance’s vacant non sequiturs are praised by his acolytes as Pythian profundity.

One would think that eventually the Dear Leader might notice that the repeated painful sensation upside his head is the Ayatollan fist, showing no signs of unclenching.

Jun 23, 2009 - 12:09 pm 94. Dero:

Good summary, keep up the work.

Jun 23, 2009 - 12:15 pm 95. Войска ПВО:

Looks like sheesh has found a soul mate (troll-mate?) in jharp. You know, like a pair of festering boils on a pig’s ass.

Jun 23, 2009 - 12:29 pm 96. Delia:

Войска ПВО,

“Troll mate?” BAHAHAHAHAHA! Now say something on-topic quick before you get a spankin from Delia, “Goddess of the Typos”.

Jun 23, 2009 - 12:40 pm 97. Ms. Attitude:

78. jharp:

It’s a new generation. They are chanting, “death to the dictator.”

Jun 23, 2009 - 1:21 pm 98. David W. Lincoln:

The next to last act of a desperate regime, God willing: http://www2.macleans.ca/2009/06/19/the-iranian-election-by-the-numbers/

Jun 23, 2009 - 1:23 pm 99. Harry:

Post 64:
Isn’t it so totalitarian of the Democrats to deny opposing viewpoints? There’s not much difference between them and the Mullahs. Both like one party rule and try to suppress opposing thought. Dems talk about bipartisanship but like the Mullahs are complete liars. Obama is afraid to speak out against the Mullahs because he’s afraid America will be seen fomenting revolution. WHAT’S THE BLEEPING DIFFERENCE???? The Mullahs will only make up lie after lie anyway! They’ll create statements instead of twisting them. They’re already blaming the British. It is said about the Palestinians: They never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity. Obama has one staring him squarely in the face and what does he do? N-O-T-H-I-N-G. Obama says nothing, the demonstrators feel no one gives a damn and whatever opportunity there is to remove the Mullahs from power is gone. America doesn’t have to invade. It doesn’t have to drop a single bomb. But it must give hope to the demonstrators. Everything Obama said during his campaign and the speech he gave in Egypt earlier this month is just a bunch of bullshit.

And in Post 78:
Who the hell do you think you are for stating that EVERY LAST ONE OF THE DEMONSTRATORS believes the US supplied Saddam with gas. Where you there taking polls you mindless knee jerk liberal robot! I suppose they all think Israel should be wiped off the face of the map too. If the Mullahs had the bomb and they used it on us you’d probably cheer!

Jun 23, 2009 - 1:35 pm 100. Typos_R_Us:

“A simple yes or no on whether you still favor bombing Iran would suffice. I’ll not look thru the archives for something answered so easily.”

I think you misunderstand. Nobody is in favor of bombing ANYONE. Period. I have pointed out many times that bombing Iran is inevitable. It will happen. That doesn’t mean I’m in favor of it. When Ronnie brought the Hostages home in ‘81 I partied. Real hard. Things were getting real swell when the sun started to come up, which meant the party would wind down. I wasn’t in favor of the Sun rising, although it happened anyway.
Knutt ordered the tide to stop. That didn’t work so well for him, either.
The question isn’t if we will bomb Iran, but when we will bomb Iran. The political Elite have decide to wait until the Iranians bomb us first. Since nuclear weapons are involved, that will not go down as one of histories better decisions.

“War cannot be avoided; it can only be postponed to the other’s advantage.”
Niccolo Machiavelli
Italian dramatist, historian, & philosopher (1469 – 1527)

I’m not in favor of millions dying. I’m pointing out that if we bomb them now, it will be thousands instead of millions. Why does that bother you?

Jun 23, 2009 - 1:37 pm 101. jharp:

Ms. Attitude:

78. jharp:

It’s a new generation. They are chanting, “death to the dictator.”
Jun 23, 2009 – 1:21 pm

In between the shouts of “death to Israel and the United States”.

So I guess you’d have been in favor of the Iranians interfering in the Florida recount of 2000. Right?

And it is clear that a lot of folks are upset with the current leaders. It’s equally as true that a lot of folks are equally upset, maybe even more so, with the United States.

And when do you recommend we bomb and invade Somalia?

You guys are utterly absurd. I’d have thought the last two elections would knock some sense into you. Instead you’ve only become more preposterous.

What’s it gonna take for you idgets to try a little common sense and forget the “I hate everything Obama”?

Jun 23, 2009 - 1:42 pm 102. Delia:

86. Typos_R_Us,

I couldn’t have said it better.

Jun 23, 2009 - 1:45 pm 103. jharp:

Harry:

Post 64:
“Isn’t it so totalitarian of the Democrats to deny opposing viewpoints? There’s not much difference between them and the Mullahs.”

You are a damned fool. No one is denying opposing viewpoints.

And if you don’t see the difference between the mullahs and the democrats you are hopelessly ignorant. I ignored the rest of you mindless drivel.

Jun 23, 2009 - 1:47 pm 104. Alireza:

b>Iranian Women<b

A relative of mine once said: If we Iranian men had just 50% of Iranian women’s guts and not being afraid, this regime would have been gone by now. As an Iranian, I am so PROUD of my Iranian women all around the world. Indeed they are brave and smart. God protect each and every one of them.

And of course they have so much at stake for being 2nd class citizen for 30 years.

Jun 23, 2009 - 1:51 pm 105. jharp:

85. Typos_R_Us:

“A simple yes or no on whether you still favor bombing Iran would suffice. I’ll not look thru the archives for something answered so easily.”

“I think you misunderstand. Nobody is in favor of bombing ANYONE. Period.”

Oh really? Really?

How about this?

“Much of the same faction now claiming such concern for the welfare of The Iranian People are the same people who have long been advocating a military attack on Iran and the dropping of large numbers of bombs on their country — actions which would result in the slaughter of many of those very same Iranian People. During the presidential campaign, John McCain infamously sang about Bomb, Bomb, Bomb-ing Iran. The Wall St. Journal published a war screed from Commentary’s Norman Podhoretz entitled “The Case for Bombing Iran,” and following that, Podhoretz said in an interview that he “hopes and prays” that the U.S. “bombs the Iranians.” John Bolton and Joe Lieberman advocated the same bombing campaign, while Bill Kristol — with typical prescience — hopefully suggested that Bush might bomb Iran if Obama were elected. Rudy Giuliani actually said he would be open to a first-strike nuclear attack on Iran in order to stop their nuclear program.”

Jun 23, 2009 - 1:51 pm 106. jharp:

Link from last post. Sorry.

http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2009/06/16/iran/

Jun 23, 2009 - 1:51 pm 107. Delia:

jharp,

Did you sit in Reverend Wright’s church for 20+ years?

Did you ‘cozy’ up with a known home-grown terrorist?

Who are you calling ‘factions’? I didn’t vote for Bush but I’m glad we didn’t get hit with another 9/11 on his watch.

When 0bama makes mistake after mistake after mistake ad infinitum will you be here burning your bra for him?

Jun 23, 2009 - 1:58 pm 108. Iran Punditry Roundup, 6-23-09 edition « The West Coast Outpost:

[...] Michael Ledeen, author of “The Iranian Time Bomb“: [...]

Jun 23, 2009 - 2:23 pm 109. jharp:

“I didn’t vote for Bush”

Amazing how many wingnuts are too ashamed to admit voting for Bush.

I’m sure it was the liberal vote that Bush won with.

Did you vote for “Bomb, bomb, bomb Iran” McCain and his ignorant hillbilly running mate?

Jun 23, 2009 - 2:23 pm 110. jharp:

Oh, sorry. I forgot to answer your question.

The faction I refer to claims as it’s members Bill Kristol, Rudy Giuliani, John McCain, The Wall St. Journal, Norman Podhoretz, John Bolton, and Joe Lieberman.

All of whom advocated bombing Iran. Tell me, are these guys not conservatives?

Jun 23, 2009 - 2:28 pm 111. Focus:

“All of whom advocated bombing Iran. Tell me, are these guys not conservatives?”

Perhaps we should answer when you do:

have you liberals stopped mooching of the work of others yet?

Jun 23, 2009 - 2:42 pm 112. arnierosner:

Any news of a general strike on Thursday, by American citizens, in sympathy for the Iranians?

arnierosner

Jun 23, 2009 - 2:46 pm 113. Delia:

jharp

You can take it down a notch. Delia does not want to fight with jharp mmmmmmmkay?

No. I didn’t vote for Bush but hubby did so I guess it’s a wash.

jharp, answer me a sim question I asked Sheeshers:

“Would you support 0bama if he strategically struck parts of Iran known to have nukes if they threatened us?”

Also, would you support 0bama if he ‘nuked’ parts of NK to defend us?

Jun 23, 2009 - 2:48 pm 114. Delia:

Focus,

A good portion of Americans are happy to live free off of the sweat, blood and tears of others and then rail against those very people who shed their sweat, blood and tears.

It’s a strange, strange, straaaaaaaaange mutha effin’ world.

Jun 23, 2009 - 2:53 pm 115. jharp:

Focus,

“A good portion of Americans are happy to live free off of the sweat, blood and tears of others and then rail against those very people who shed their sweat, blood and tears.”

You are so right.

And it turns my stomach to see the GOP use our military to enrich a very few. Mainly big oil and defense contractors.

There is a special place in hell for those who send others to die so a very few can get rich.

Jun 23, 2009 - 2:59 pm 116. jharp:

“Would you support 0bama if he strategically struck parts of Iran known to have nukes if they threatened us?”

Also, would you support 0bama if he ‘nuked’ parts of NK to defend us?

Jun 23, 2009 – 2:48 pm

No and no.

Your turn to answer my question.

Jun 23, 2009 - 3:04 pm 117. Alexis:

As a rule, those who use the terms “wingnut” or “moonbat” should be regarded as future Benedict Arnolds, for they have become so thoroughly convinced that other Americans are the worst enemy of America that they would align themselves with America’s worst enemies, all the while believing themselves to be true patriots.

Whenever recommending a course of action for the United States to take, it is best to remember what is in the best interests of the American people rather than how many cheap shots one can score against domestic political opponents. Those who hate Bush or Obama more than they love America should be regarded with suspicion.

Jun 23, 2009 - 3:10 pm 118. Delia:

jharp, somehow, I don’t believe you.

-And, I like Sarah Palin, voted for RINO-McCain [who WAS the lesser of two EVILS and proving moreso every day] but, I wasn’t happy with the crappy McCain choice by any stretch.

Bombing Iran’s nukes before those nukes hit us is something I’ve already said I’m for here on PJM. I have family that have fought in two wars and I understand how horrific and ugly it is.

So. There’s my opinion. What are you gonna do about it? Charge me with smoking? *crosses and uncrosses legs*

Jun 23, 2009 - 3:17 pm 119. jharp:

The moonbats strike back. By Michelle Malkin

What If Moonbats Ran a War? – Right Wing News (Conservative News

Little Green Footballs – The Etymology of the Moonbat

The Moonbat Chronicles at Right Wing Nation

Michelle Malkin » Moonbat protester at Walter Reed

Gateway Pundit · Moonbat of the Year Nominee

There’s more but I think this points out the ignorance of your post well enough.

Jun 23, 2009 - 3:20 pm 120. Delia:

100. Alexis:

“Those who hate Bush or Obama more than they love America should be regarded with suspicion.”

Good point. I don’t hate 0bama. I just can’t stand him or what he stand against [America and white people namely].

Jun 23, 2009 - 3:22 pm 121. Delia:

‘wingnut’, libtard, ‘moonbat’, ‘repug’ etc. blah blah blah.

Who cares?

How many of us commenting on this blog have been shot on a street for dissenting against tyranny?

Jun 23, 2009 - 3:25 pm 122. Delia:

Sticks and stones.

‘name calling’ is so third grade.

Jun 23, 2009 - 3:26 pm 123. jharp:

Delia:

“jharp, somehow, I don’t believe you.”

There are plenty of issues I disagree with Obama on today.

On the most important issues I agree with him. Health care, though I’d like to see a single payer, ending the occupation of Iraq, and his response to the Bush depression.

And since Iran doesn’t have nukes, and is years if not decades away from getting them, who the hell cares about a hypothetical?

We have far more important issues to deal with.

Jun 23, 2009 - 3:27 pm 124. Delia:

We’re letting our country be run by a bunch of fools who suck the moula out of us and ’spend it’ like it’s theirs to do ‘whatever’ with.

TYRANNY is here. I hope when 0bama’s ‘regime’ is in order he only uses rubber bullets.

Jun 23, 2009 - 3:29 pm 125. Delia:

-And by ‘fools’ I’m talking about ALL politicians.

Jun 23, 2009 - 3:30 pm 126. jharp:

“I just can’t stand him or what he stand against [America and white people namely].”

You are an unbelievable horses ass. Do you honestly believe Obama stands against white people and America?

You are one pathetic soul. I almost feel sorry for you.

Jun 23, 2009 - 3:30 pm 127. jharp:

How many of us commenting on this blog have been shot on a street for dissenting against tyranny?

Jun 23, 2009 – 3:25 pm

Kent State. Jackson State. Oh, I’m sorry, that was under Nixon.

Jun 23, 2009 - 3:31 pm 128. Harry:

Post 88:
Boo hoo can’t face the truth?
You’re full of crap and a waste of time.

Jun 23, 2009 - 3:36 pm 129. Delia:

jharp,

Are you saying you were ‘there’ dissenting under Nixon?

I agree with you that health-care is effed up but how to fix it does not mean taxing twinkies and ding dongs.

Jun 23, 2009 - 3:37 pm 130. Delia:

111. Harry,

HUHHHHH? :\

Jun 23, 2009 - 3:38 pm 131. Delia:

I think the US vs. THEM syndrome is worse than ever. It’s depressing and I hope we never, ever, NEVER have to resort to what the Iranians have gone through. Children, women dying just for voicing their dissent. Not kewl.

Jun 23, 2009 - 3:42 pm 132. lefroy:

Obama’s pathetic, jumbled statement on Iran:

Does it occur to him that there is nothing wrong with calling for the overthrow of a corrupt and despotic government?

Does Obama think it would be wrong for America to call for the end of a corrupt and despotic right-wing government such as an old fashioned latin american dictatorship? Of course he doesn’t.

Just another example of the unthinking hypocrisy of the left.

And notice how it never even occurs to him to utter the f-word.* He would be embarrassed by uttering it; it would be totally alien to him.

(*As in fr**dom)

Jun 23, 2009 - 3:46 pm 133. Greg H.:

What the hell is “kewl”?

Jun 23, 2009 - 3:51 pm 134. jharp:

Deliia,

“I hope we never, ever, NEVER have to resort to what the Iranians have gone through. Children, women dying just for voicing their dissent.”

We already have. That was my point on Kent State.

And no, though I wasn’t far away, I was not there.

Jun 23, 2009 - 3:55 pm 135. jharp:

“Does it occur to him that there is nothing wrong with calling for the overthrow of a corrupt and despotic government?”

Does it ever occur to you that you have no idea what you are talking about?

It is an Iranian issue. The ones who you want us to side with DON’T WANT ANY SUPPORT FROM THE UNITED STATES.

It will hurt their cause, not help it.

Jun 23, 2009 - 3:57 pm 136. Harry:

One more thing Jharp. How could you accuse me of being so ignorant as to not being able to tell the difference between a democrat and a mullah? I must assume from your statement that the mullahs are far worse than democrats. Exactly how bad are the mullahs and how could I distinguish a democrat from a mullah? I mean if the difference was that great there must be something bad about the mullahs. Are they just slightly worse than democrats or are they far worse than democrats? If I am intellectually challenged because I cannot differentiate between a democratic representative of the US and a tyrranical, terrorist backing, dictatorial, lying, murdering, government that is Mullahcracy then why do you so vehemently back them on this board? Why do you vehemently disdain conservative thought when it may be correct?

Jun 23, 2009 - 4:02 pm 137. Delia:

jharp,

I think you have some valid [albeit skewed] POV’s. I know it sucks being labeled a ‘troll’ when you are just trying to express your opinions but, when you called me and others ‘tit-for-tats’ when I simply responded to you with your name in this whole thread is part of why people will not take you seriously when you resort to that kind of internet conduct. I’m not saying I’m perfEkt, for I too have resorted to childish antics but *we* as a Country need to unite and stop with the Us vs. THEM. I thought the left was ‘happy’ they ‘won’? Sheesh!

Jun 23, 2009 - 4:06 pm 138. jharp:

“If I am intellectually challenged because I cannot differentiate between a democratic representative of the US and a tyrranical, terrorist backing, dictatorial, lying, murdering, government that is Mullahcracy then why do you so vehemently back them on this board? Why do you vehemently disdain conservative thought when it may be correct?”

Intellectually challenged? Not quite. You’re an idiot if you can’t see the difference.

And more of the stupid is claiming that I back the mullahs. Another totally ignorant and unfounded baseless claim.

I don’t disdain conservative thought. Another baseless and unfounded accusation. I disdain conservative ignorance. And there is plenty of that going around.

Jun 23, 2009 - 4:09 pm 139. jharp:

Delia,

When you post that Obama doesn’t care about America and doesn’t care about white people it’s really difficult to take your seriously.

And same to Harry, when you post that you can’t tell the difference between the mullahs and the democrats.

Jun 23, 2009 - 4:13 pm 140. lefroy:

jharp #116:

“Does it ever occur to you that you have no idea what you are talking about?”

Charming. But you haven’t grappled with the point of my post. So answer, please, without prevarication:

Was it wrong for the US (as it finally did) to call for the end of despotic regimes like Pinochet in Chile, the generals in Argentina, or Stroessner in Paraguay?

If not, why would it be wrong for Obama to call for the end of the corrupt and despotic regime of the mullahs in Iran?

Jun 23, 2009 - 4:25 pm 141. Alexis:

Harry:

Few Americans use the word “ignorant” when attacking those whom they disagree with, but the words “ignorant” and “ignorance” are very common epithets used by Muslims and particularly Islamists. Muslims typically call the age before Mohammed “The Age of Ignorance”. The word “Kufr” literally means “unbelief” in Arabic but it could also mean “ignorance”, especially in the sense intended by Islamists.

Moreover, the promiscuous use of the H-word is often a marker for a contemptuous foreigner because very few Americans would ever use that term for the same reason that few Americans use the N-word. Islamists rarely veil their contempt toward free people.

Iranian government agents may have learned some English and a minimal amount of American history, but their cultural habits are so ingrained that one can usually figure out who they are after a while.

Jun 23, 2009 - 4:28 pm 142. jharp:

“If not, why would it be wrong for Obama to call for the end of the corrupt and despotic regime of the mullahs in Iran?”

Because we are not liked or trusted by the Iranians and it would do nothing but provide fodder for the current regime. The easiest way to turn the Iranian people against the protesters would be to tie them to the Americans.

Comprende?

Jun 23, 2009 - 4:32 pm 143. Delia:

jharp,

When you post that Obama doesn’t care about America and doesn’t care about white people it’s really difficult to take your seriously.
~

ARE YOU being for serious? *bangs head against keyboard* The widdershins type of ‘logic’ you espouse gives me a headache.

What part of Rev. Wright and Ayers do you *not* understanddddddddddd????????????? Jew/White hatred is STILL spewed from Rev. Wright! Are you daft????? C’mon, dudette. Wake the frickety frack up, would ya?

Jun 23, 2009 - 4:32 pm 144. jharp:

123. Alexis:

What in the world are you talking about?

Are you somehow alluding that I am an Iranian government agent?

You are an ignorant fool. And put the crack pipe away. I’ve read some wingnut absurdities but that one takes the cake. By a lot.

Jun 23, 2009 - 4:35 pm 145. Delia:

123. Alexis,

Thank you for your on-topic posts, they are very touching.

Jun 23, 2009 - 4:35 pm 146. Delia:

jharp, why are you so wound up? All of you libs come here with so much ‘upset’ and ‘anger’ and mighty ‘fury’ when you should be all ‘happy campers’? I just don’t ‘get it’?

Who cares what ‘we’ think, right? Isn’t that your ‘motto’? Who cares if we don’t think like ‘you’ do? You WON.

Jeebus. Enjoy it already.

Jun 23, 2009 - 4:38 pm 147. jharp:

Delia:

jharp, why are you so wound up?

Because I cannot stand to see the dumbing down of America. It’s hurting us.

It hurt us badly when the wingnuts believed the fiction spun by George Bush and we’re still paying a tragic price today.

Both in blood and in treasure.

I feel like I should have done more. And I’m going to do everything I can to prevent it from happening again.

Jun 23, 2009 - 4:47 pm 148. Aussie:

Could someone please ban that idiot JHarp. Talk about getting off the topic.

Jun 23, 2009 - 4:50 pm 149. Harry:

Post 120:
Educate us then Jharp. What is the difference between a democrat and a mullah? Last chance now, you’ve been ducking it so far.

Jun 23, 2009 - 4:52 pm 150. Delia:

UGH.I just watched another horrific youtube about this subject and bawled my guts out. I feel sick.

Jun 23, 2009 - 5:01 pm 151. Delia:

jharp,

All of those liberal teachers have gravely disappointed you, eh?

Jun 23, 2009 - 5:02 pm 152. Aussie:

Michael, I have been reading your blog over the past week. You have been doing great work covering the situation in Iran. It is a pity that the people who leave comments just show their ignorance over matters pertaining to Iran.

For those who have this thing about Muslims and who obviously do not get the significance of “alluha akbar”: In 1979, after the people got so fed up with the repression of the Shah, they took to the streets and they took to the rooftops. The slogan: God is great: there is no one but God – is a political slogan which in 1979 was directed at the Shah. It literally meant that the Shah was not God and therefore what he said did not have to be followed. There are many millions of Iranians who went through the 1979 revolution and they are alive and well: Mousavi, Rafsanjani, Khatami, etc. etc. They wrote the revolution rule book.

The fact that the people took to the rooftops to start the shouting is an indicator that they were following the 1979 rules. It is certainly the first thing that I thought when I read that they were shouting from the rooftop. The chant itself has changed from “death to Ahmadinejad” to “Death to Khamenei” and “death to the dictator”. This gives some idea of why they are shouting Allouha Akbar from their rooftops.

The people are very religious in one way. The young people are praying before they go out on the streets to protest. The older people have joined them on the streets. There are millions who have protested over the fraudulent election result. The young people are saying that they do not want to bomb anything. More telling though, is the information that it is not young Iranians who are shouting “death to America” but it is the “paid rabble” – the Basij that have been seen to be making those chants. In fact it was the Basij who were at the University of Tehran when Khamenei spoke. The students and others stayed away – Rafsanjani, Kharoubi and Mousavi were not present at that speech.

Should we accept the meme that Mousavi will not be any different from Ahmadinejad? I would think that the meme should not be accepted, even though Mousavi believes in continuing the nuclear project. The difference is for peaceful purposes. Also Mousavi had been out of the limelight for 20 years and as a real part of the 1979 revolution I have no doubt he wants to return to those values. This means working for a fundamental change that will see the end of the ruling mullahocracy in Tehran. This is fundamental to Iran becoming once more a great nation in the Middle East. The current set up was Khomenei’s vision. The incumbent believes that he has absolute power and he will do anything to retain that power. What is more the incumbent (Khamenei) believes in the myth of the 12th Iman. This is a very dangerous belief. I am not certain that the reformers represented by Khatami, Kharoubi, Rafsanjani and others believe in the 12 Iman myth. If they do not then I think that the world will be better off under their leadership.

It is very significant that this new movement has the support of the most revered Grand Ayatollah Sistani. This is an interesting moment, because if Rafsanjani can get that majority to agree then the Council of Expediency and the Council of Experts will act to end the crisis by removing Khamenei from power and paving the way for constitutional changes. If this happens then there will be a major shift in the balance of power in the Middle East. I would forsee that funding for both Hezbollah and Hamas will be reduced to a trickle if Rafsanjani is successful.

Jun 23, 2009 - 5:08 pm 153. Harry:

Post 122 Alexis:
I don’t know but I think he’s just a very disgruntled liberal who loathes conservatives. As Alan Alda said in a MASH episode “I see that loathe and raise you (Jharp) a despise”.
I tried getting him to use logic but it hasn’t worked yet. He keeps using “ignorant” as if it will win an argument. It never will.
Heck this board is getting like the old Yahoo boards. I’m used to far worse.

Jun 23, 2009 - 5:16 pm 154. jharp:

131. Harry:

Post 120:
Educate us then Jharp. What is the difference between a democrat and a mullah?

I’ll not bother to explain it to you. If you are so far gone that you can’t see the absurdity of your premise then unless you’re in the 2nd grade I feel it is hopeless for you. Unfortunately for you, you are going to have to go through life as the dimmest of the dimbulbs.

Jun 23, 2009 - 5:17 pm 155. Robert Belvedere:

Quoted from and linked to at:
http://www.thecampofthesaints.com/2009.06.21_arch.html#1245762308088

Jun 23, 2009 - 5:21 pm 156. jharp:

“I don’t know but I think he’s just a very disgruntled liberal who loathes conservatives.”

Now your getting somewhere. However, I have some very good golfing buddies who are dyed in the wool conservatives and I don’t loathe them. As a matter of fact I like them.

It is conservatism that I loathe. You know stuff like denying women the right to vote, slavery, denying black people the right to vote, denying black people the right to marry white people. Stuff like that.

And I assume Dalia is a women. How’s that make you feel Dalia? If it wasn’t for liberals you’d not even have the right to voice your opinion at the polls.

Jun 23, 2009 - 5:22 pm 157. Meryl:

Apparently “dimbulb” and “dimmest of….” were covered in Lefty Posting Workshops. Keeps showing up here ‘n there ‘n everywhere.

These people are so depressing. I believe they are the most miserable winners (which they constantly remind us about) that I have ever seen.

The constant: they still can’t post or discuss without namecalling.

Jun 23, 2009 - 5:33 pm 158. lefroy:

#123 jharp:

“Because we are not liked or trusted by the Iranians and it would do nothing but provide fodder for the current regime. The easiest way to turn the Iranian people against the protesters would be to tie them to the Americans.”

where do you start debunking such an infantile generalization?

Jun 23, 2009 - 6:21 pm 159. Delia:

People from Huffpo and Kos ‘ASSume’ too much about people who blog here.

Boo. I don’t sully myself blogging on left-wing websites because, frankly, it would drive me nuckin’ futz.

Of course, the left wingers will Hail 0bama the greatest thing since sliced bread if he kisses another Muslim psycho freak ass dictator but, gawwwwwwwwwd forbid DohTard speak out for the people who have BLED.

Jun 23, 2009 - 6:23 pm 160. eor:

Oh good! Break out the pork chops, pork ribs and rotissaried ham!!

Jun 23, 2009 - 6:46 pm 161. jharp:

140. Delia:

“People from Huffpo and Kos ‘ASSume’ too much about people who blog here.”

If you’re referring to me you are mistaken. I mostly visit wingnut sites. I rarely visit Huffpo. I do visit Kos occasionally but mainly to read the Saturday hate mail. I highly recommend. You’d be proud of your fellow wingnuts.

And how about this Dalia?

“And I assume Dalia is a women. How’s that make you feel Dalia? If it wasn’t for liberals you’d not even have the right to voice your opinion at the polls.”

How about it?

Jun 23, 2009 - 6:52 pm 162. noreen:

It nearly breaks my heart to see these brave people risking their lives for freedom with signs in English. How much clearer can they make it. They need our support. Unfortunately out present leader is a weak and immoral man with even weak convictions. He makes me ashamed and embarrassed. We should look at these Iranians and remember just how lucky we are and how precious freedom is. As they fight for theirs ours is slipping away from us

Jun 23, 2009 - 6:54 pm 163. Delia:

jharp,

Ya lost me when you started calling me \”Dalia\”. \”Delia\” is a Greek nickname from the name, \”CorDelia\”.

\”Dalia\” is awful close to Dhalia [black Dhalia], which was a horrible murder case.

Don\’t try to \’game\’ with my mind in insidious ways because I\’ll catch you each time and it\’s not cute or \’funny\’ when you and your pozerz constantly henpeck people here and especially \’women\’.

Lamerz.

Jun 23, 2009 - 7:09 pm 164. harry:

Jharp I have given you several chances to prove your point and you have failed. Goodbye and enjoy a bitter life.

Jun 23, 2009 - 7:12 pm 165. Delia:

*punches fists in air*

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

Kidding! I actually ‘disco’ when anyone pisses me the F*CK OFF.

Jun 23, 2009 - 7:15 pm 166. Delia:

BTW, it would be nice if someone had a bit of compassion for the author of this blog by having a bit of civility.

The uglier you lefties act, the more you gross everyone out to your ’cause’ [if you even freakin' have one].

Jun 23, 2009 - 7:19 pm 167. jharp:

Delia,

“Don\’t try to \’game\’ with my mind in insidious ways”

My apologies. I’m a little dyslexic and simply spelled it how I pronounced it in my head. It was nothing more than that.

So what’s it gonna be?

“And how about this Delia?”

“And I assume Delia is a women. How’s that make you feel Delia? If it wasn’t for liberals you’d not even have the right to voice your opinion at the polls.”

How about it?

Jun 23, 2009 - 7:22 pm 168. Just Passing Through:

Mr Ledeen, you have mail.

As has already been pointed out, you’ve done a marvelous job posting on the events in Iran.

I’d like to point something out though. Let’s say you were in front of a class, and you delivered a lecture touching on the events and making the points you’ve made your posts on Iran over the last week. You invite the people who have listened to discuss. A lively bunch, say a few percent of those who attended and gave attention to your lecture take up your offer, but the majority just listen attentively to the discussion. The usual lecture hall situation.

However, a few people come in during the discussion, never having listened to what you said, nor having any interest in what you said. They immediately trash talk the people in the discussion. They toss out every logical fallacy, every off topic inanity, every sophomoric self-indulging rant they can think of. There’s no counterpoint to the discussion at hand, just white noise aimed at either redefining the issues under discussion or shutting down the discussion altogether. In the process, they gratuitously insult every person in the hall for attending the lecture, including the silent majority who stuck around expecting to learn from an intelligent and factual on topic discussion.

Under these circumstances, how long do you expect the majority…who attend your lectures to listen to what you said and then listen to a discussion on the points you make…to continue to stay around for the discussion phase after any future lectures? How long do you expect that majority to continue to attend the lecture itself in lieu of attending one down the hall where they might learn something rather than be insulted.

I for one am done with wasting any more time trying to filter out the white noise in every comment thread on this site.

Jun 23, 2009 - 7:26 pm 169. Delia:

Just Passing Through,

PJM seriously needs to upgrade. It’s depressing when ‘rules for radicals’ types come here to stir the pot.

Jun 23, 2009 - 7:31 pm 170. Michael Ledeen:

freedom of speech, like all freedoms, requires responsible people to avoid license, and thus chaos. And so the “white noise” you complain about. Kinda like the free press. Sounds great, but it can be very messy.

Jun 23, 2009 - 7:31 pm 171. shiraz:

In our country Iran the collaboration of the leftist liberals either secular or Islamists plus the die hard communists brought the brutal barbaric terrorist regime of the Islamic Republic that has been shutting voices for the past 30 years and killing citizens if they do not succumb to the wills of the evil regime. I hope we do not experience such horrible tragedy anywhere else in the world including US. You all get my point I hope!

Jun 23, 2009 - 7:32 pm 172. Delia:

163. Michael Ledeen,

You make great blogs and people post. Please just rest up and prep for your operation with a happy spirit. Jerks happen but people who are polite and offer a dif opinion than mine with grace and tact win me over or at least help me see their ‘pov’ rather than the people that come here to merely be attack dogs for whatever affiliation they go ‘under’.

Jun 23, 2009 - 7:39 pm 173. Delia:

Well? The f-word is one of the best words on earth imho. It’s so satisfying and just rolls off the tongue.

I would be bummed if I had to live in a world where I couldn’t use the f-word. It would truly suck royally to wake up tomorrow and be terrified that I can’t yell out my window, “FU-c-k YOUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!” when I’m in a bad mood.

It’s so ‘cleansing’ and I’m glad I don’t have to die in a street if I choose to use the f-word. *phew*

Jun 23, 2009 - 8:01 pm 174. Just Passing Through:

Your joint, your rules. My patronage, my rules.

Jun 23, 2009 - 8:06 pm 175. Delia:

Just Passing Through,

I think a lot of us will abandon ship eventually. Not because a lot of bloggers didn’t try, but, because PJM just isn’t up to ‘IT’ snuff which would help cut down on b.s.

Jun 23, 2009 - 8:10 pm 176. kabud:

iranian diplomats may choose to take people’ side – its time to talk to them

Jun 23, 2009 - 8:24 pm 177. jharp:

174. Just Passing Through:

When your brightest students who don’t go to lecture but understand the material better than those who do and who have the most to offer to the debate you tell me what you’d do.

Go back to listening to Limbaugh. He cuts his contrary callers off or doesn’t allow them on the air.

Mega dittos.

Jun 23, 2009 - 8:26 pm 178. Delia:

I think this will be my last post here btw. I think it’s time. I’m thankful for all of the wonderful and kind people I’ve met here including the authors of the blogs and the commenters whom I’ve come to know and care for.

Delia [me, Angelina] needs to retire her moniker and huddle back to her teensy weensy corner of the world, life is crowding in and some sad times are happening [I'll spare ya though]. I’ve been crying way too much but, it has always been so awesome to come here and see so many ‘familiar’ faces and feel a sense of ‘home’.

Please don’t be too hard on Sheesh/Shadow/et al. ‘Trolls’ are people too and sometimes all they need is a hug, a little love and some kind direction.

I learned so many lessons on PJM. I especially learned that I’m not as alone as I thought I was and that people with opposite beliefs from mine are not ogres and they deserve to be heard too.

I do not want to live in this world any longer.

Thank you for having me as a guest while it lasted.

My final prayer is that every single person on this lovely, scarred, frightened earth finds hope, freedom and deliverence from evil and tyranny.

I didn’t spell-check myself. Sorry.

Love always,

Delia ♥

Jun 23, 2009 - 8:27 pm 179. jharp:

175. Delia:

“I think a lot of us will abandon ship eventually.”

If I were in your shoes, afraid to address a simple question from a contrary poster. I’d be too ashamed to make another post.

But that’s just me.

So what’s it gonna be?

“And I assume Delia is a women. How’s that make you feel Delia? If it wasn’t for liberals you’d not even have the right to voice your opinion at the polls.”

How about it?

Jun 23, 2009 - 8:30 pm 180. kabud:

Iranian events were precisely predicted

On IRAN
http://www.jrnyquist.com/media/Homayoun%20Interview.mp3

Jun 23, 2009 - 8:33 pm 181. jharp:

Peace and good health to you, Delia.

And don’t get down. Lot’s of folks were wrong about conservatism. And people who I have no doubt had good intentions.

It is quite easy and peaceful to admit you were wrong. You’d be surprised. The truth shall set you free.

Jun 23, 2009 - 8:35 pm 182. Alexis:

Few comments show an utter lack of comprehension of modern American politics more clearly and conclusively than claiming that modern conservatives agree with the political philosophy of John C. Calhoun. Alexander Hamilton (whose ideas were very much in the British Tory tradition) was a major opponent of slavery. On the other hand, the Democratic Party still has Jefferson-Jackson Dinners which honor two slave owning presidents, one of whom was responsible for the Trail of Tears.

It less than intelligent to assume that every isolationist must necessarily be a liberal (remember Pat Buchanan?) or that aggressive opposition against tyranny must necessarily be conservative (remember Christopher Hitchens?). If one wants to learn about conservatism (or liberalism or socialism or fascism), one would do well to check out books from a local library or peruse major commentary magazines online. The last place to learn about political philosophy would be on a golf course; it would make about as much sense as learning about American history by watching Sesame Street.

Let’s not forget that Iran was an Axis power during World War II. (Tehran’s train station still has a big swastika…) Iran became one of the Allies after getting invaded by the United States, the United Kingdom, and the Soviet Union. As “imperialist” as this may sound, I don’t think the United States ought to apologize for occupying Iran during World War II. If Iran didn’t want to get occupied, it shouldn’t have joined the Axis.

France’s history of colonialism, Argentina’s history of civil war, and Russia’s history of gulags don’t mean they have no moral right to condemn tyranny, and neither do their histories mean they have no moral right to criticize the United States. Likewise, American trespasses in generations past should not be used as a pretext to stifle protest against tyranny in the here and now.

During the Reagan administration, I was a liberal who loathed President Reagan. However, I am willing to admit that he did some things right. When President Reagan said, “Mr. Gorbachev, tear down that wall!”, he spoke for me and my feelings about the Berlin Wall. When he condemned Soviet tyranny, he spoke for my opposition against tyranny. When he turned against Ferdinand Marcos and Jean-Claude Duvalier, he spoke for me. Whatever else can be said about President Reagan (and there are many policies of his I still oppose), he meant what he said when he said he opposed tyranny. It matters.

When (according to the Washington Times) President Obama sent a letter of appeasement “to express … respect for the Islamic Republic” to Mr. Khamenei three weeks before the fake election, he spoke as the President of the United States, but he did not speak for me. Obama should have expected an openly scornful response in a public sermon by Mr. Khamenei and that that is exactly what he got. Mr. Khamenei has made his intentions clear – genocide against the American people. So, as an American, I naturally have a vested interest in wanting Iran’s pharaonic republic gone. Those Iranians who want Iran’s pharaonic republic overthrown should have America’s support, even if it may seem analogous at times to supporting Stalin against Hitler.

Liberal or conservative, Republican or Democrat, we need to remember we are Americans. Sadly, some people forget that.

Jun 23, 2009 - 8:42 pm 183. Alexis:

The Philippines were once an American colony. During the 1970’s, the United States supported Ferdinand Marcos, a dictator. So, should the United States have refrained from welcoming Marcos’s overthrow with “People Power” in 1986 because the United States had once held the nation as a colony? Don’t be ridiculous! Ronald Reagan did the right thing when he turned against Ferdinand Marcos.

Is Barack Obama willing to turn against the mullahs in a meaningful way? If he does, he would deserve credit for changing course in his foreign policy.

Jun 23, 2009 - 8:50 pm 184. jharp:

“The last place to learn about political philosophy would be on a golf course”

And just who, who suggested that the golf course would be a good place to learn about political philosophy?

You wingnut hacks are hopeless.

Jun 23, 2009 - 8:51 pm 185. AThinkingPerson:

jharp: Shouldn’t you be a bit humbler considering the One you elected has now shown himself to be incapable of handing what is going on in the world today? All of your blow-hard talk about Conservatives means jack squat right now when all of the ills befalling the US right now can be tracked back to the One having no backbone whatsoever. How does it feel to be responsible for Dick Cheney having higher poll numbers than Nancy Pelosi? How does it feel to have Independents now regretting their Obama vote?

I’d say your bravado can be attributed to Napoleon syndrome. Therefore I choose to overlook your obvious stupidity.

Now, back to the topic at hand…Why does the world feel emboldened now that we have a marshmallow as TOTUS? Hmmm…guess I answered my own question.

Jun 23, 2009 - 8:57 pm 186. Alexis:

According to one story, Pablo Picasso was found in his Paris studio by Gestapo officers who had just conquered France. One of officers pointed to a painting called Guernica and asked, “Did you do that?” Picasso responded, “No, you did.”

Now your getting somewhere. However, I have some very good golfing buddies who are dyed in the wool conservatives and I don’t loathe them. As a matter of fact I like them.

It is conservatism that I loathe. You know stuff like denying women the right to vote, slavery, denying black people the right to vote, denying black people the right to marry white people. Stuff like that.

There was once a man who talked about his conversations with his “conservative” golfing buddies and then claimed to be a big expert on how conservatives think. He then acted as if there’s no difference between a modern conservative and a Jim Crow Dixiecrat.

And just who, who suggested that the golf course would be a good place to learn about political philosophy?

You did.

Jun 23, 2009 - 9:17 pm 187. concerned:

delia do not suicide yourself if that is what u are implying.if life is hurting bad right now call a friend or something.as a long time lurker i have enjoyed your posts and i hope u come back after you feel better but dont give up.

Jun 23, 2009 - 9:17 pm 188. David W. Lincoln:

Alexis:

Remember, not just Americans check this website.

Jun 23, 2009 - 9:18 pm 189. David W. Lincoln:

Came across this at charlesadler.com

Mousavi ‘under 24-hour guard’
By John Lichfield in Paris/The Independent-UK
Tuesday, 23 June 2009
The Iranian opposition leader Mirhossein Mousavi is under 24-hour guard by secret police and no longer able to speak freely to supporters, according to the film director Mohsen Makhmalbaf.

Mr Makhmalbaf, 52, an informal spokesman abroad for the protest in Iran, said that Mr Mousavi was not under arrest but “he has security agents, secret police with him all the time. He has to be careful what he says.”

In a telephone interview, Mr Makhmalbaf, the director of the 2001 film Kandaha, denied suggestions that the protests against the re-election of President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad were losing steam.

“The regime, arguably, is losing ground, not the protests,” he said. “Ordinary Iranians are openly rejecting the legitimacy and power of Ayatollah Khamanei. That is entirely new, unheard of.”

Mr Makhmalbaf, a friend of Mr Mousavi for 20 years, said that there were reports from Iran that some of the militia deployed to suppress protest were “speaking Arabic”. “That is unconfirmed but it suggests that the regime is unable to trust its own security forces to repress the Iranian people,” he said. “It suggests that people are being used from abroad.”

Jun 23, 2009 - 9:27 pm 190. jharp:

185. Alexis:

“There was once a man who talked about his conversations with his “conservative” golfing buddies and then claimed to be a big expert on how conservatives think.”

Really? Who was it that talked about conversations with his conservative buddies and claimed to be an expert on how conservatives think?

You certainly can’t be referring to me even though that seems to be the case.

Listen and listen closely. I have some very good golfing friends who are conservative. Nothing more. I don’t pretend to understand how they think.

And I loathe conservatism. Specifically the not allowing women the right to vote, slavery, not allowing black people the right to vote, not allowing black people to marry white people, and current to today I especially loathe the conservative positive on health acre reform.

You are a fool on a fools errand.

Jun 23, 2009 - 9:29 pm 191. jharp:

184. AThinkingPerson:

“jharp: Shouldn’t you be a bit humbler considering the One you elected has now shown himself to be incapable of handing what is going on in the world today?”

Quite the contrary. I’m feeling bold.

Obama is showing himself to be handling brilliantly the catastrophic mess left behind by George Bush.

“when all of the ills befalling the US right now can be tracked back to the One”

Keep right on saying it. 20% of American’s are right with you. See how you do with it. It’s treated you so well the past two elections.

Jun 23, 2009 - 9:34 pm 192. AThinkingPerson:

Re #188 jharp: “And I loathe conservatism. Specifically the not allowing women the right to vote, slavery, not allowing black people the right to vote, not allowing black people to marry white people, and current to today I especially loathe the conservative positive on health acre reform.”

You just showed your stupidity. You seriously believe that? I’d say you need to quit getting your facts from Rachel Maddog there jharp.

Anyone else wishing jharp’s mom would enforce his curfew?

Jun 23, 2009 - 9:36 pm 193. AThinkingPerson:

Re #189 jharp: “Keep right on saying it. 20% of American’s are right with you”

Wrong facts yet again. You might take your foot out of your mouth and check Obama’s polling numbers. Here, I’ll save you the trouble…http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0609/24025.html

Yeah, feel all “bold” there jharp. If that’s how you get through your day so be it. Leave it to those Conservatives to clean up your mess as we’ve had to do time and time again throughout history.

Funny how liberals always turn into Conservatives once they get a job.

Jun 23, 2009 - 9:43 pm 194. jharp:

“You seriously believe that?”

Yes I do.

Do you seriously believe it is liberal ideals that are pro not allowing women the right to vote, pro slavery, pro not allowing black people the right to vote, and pro not allowing black people to marry white people.

Good Lord. The first thing you conservatives need to do is get yourselves educated.

Shocking ignorance. Utterly shocking.

Jun 23, 2009 - 9:45 pm 195. Ray:

AThinkingPerson said “jharp: Shouldn’t you be a bit humbler considering the One you elected has now shown himself to be incapable of handing what is going on in the world today?”

That isn’t what it’s about, but it’s very simple really. Pajamas Media is an important alternative media outlet. It’s this new media that is putting an end to the stranglehold on information and leftist dishonesty. You can imagine the horror for the hard left. That those like jharp post here is a testament to this very fact. Jharp and friends behave crudely, but then that’s a feature of the left and not a defect.

Jun 23, 2009 - 9:57 pm 196. AThinkingPerson:

Get ourselves educated? That’s coming from a liberal? LOL!

You belong to the most closed-minded, group-thought bunch of non-thinkers on the planet! I’ll give you points for your bravado in the face of more knowledgeable posters though. Save your shock for the fact that your liberal media is currently now covering Michelle Obama and her gardening skills in lieu of anything in Iran/Afghanistan/N.Korea. Why not be shocked at that? Would that require more than the usual single brain cell currently in use?

Very telling jharp. Very telling. I’m guessing maybe we can chalk up your embarrassing lack of a competent rebuttal to the question of why Obama is such a marshmallow to the fact that your main news sources are just covering the Obama’s date nights and dog walks and not the issues that matter (to the Conservatives anyway).

C’mon jharp, give it up. You’re WAY out of your league here. Why not scamper on back to the HuffPo where they value people with limited skills such as yourself (I have heard that the “we won, you lost, poll numbers lie” comment is tres chic right now)?

I’m utterly shocked that you haven’t done so already! I guess there’s not much to comment on there though when everyone is still partaking in group-thought pow-wows with their legs all a-tingle with nary a thought as to what’s going on in the real world (sort of like our current TOTUS wouldn’t you agree?).

Jun 23, 2009 - 10:09 pm 197. Alexis:

Specifically the not allowing women the right to vote, slavery, not allowing black people the right to vote, not allowing black people to marry white people, and current to today I especially loathe the conservative positive on health acre reform.

Dear jharp:

THAT IS NOT WHAT I BELIEVE IN!!! WHERE DID YOU EVER GET THE IDEA THAT I BELIEVE IN SUCH NONSENSE???

You owe me an apology for even implying that I could ever believe in such garbage. I will probably never get it, but you owe it to me nonetheless.

I have NEVER supported slavery and I have NEVER supported depriving other Americans of the right to vote. I have personally worked as a clerk in elections to make sure that people had the right to vote, and that’s probably more than you’ve ever done to ensure that ballots were counted properly. If anything, YOU are acting as a slavemaster, YES YOU, because you are apparently seeking to deprive Iranians of the very freedoms you use to post on Michael Ledeen’s blog.

If you really think that most conservatives support slavery, oppose women’s suffrage, and oppose black suffrage, you don’t know the conservatives I know. If you truly believe what you say, you suffer from a mind just as warped as the minds of the mullahs who control Iran.

Jun 23, 2009 - 10:13 pm 198. AThinkingPerson:

As a final thought to jharp et al…

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0609/24025.html

I think the kool-aid is running out. Finally.

Jun 23, 2009 - 10:14 pm 199. Dave Surls:

“Does this mean you guys no longer want to bomb them?”

If I was POTUS, we’d be attacking Iran right now, and we wouldn’t stop until the mad mullahs were driven out of power, a la the Baathists in Iraq.

However, a revolt that results in the destruction of the Iraqi regime would also be acceptable.

Jun 23, 2009 - 10:18 pm 200. Dave Surls:

“And I loathe conservatism. Specifically the not allowing women the right to vote, slavery, not allowing black people the right to vote, not allowing black people to marry white people, and current to today I especially loathe the conservative positive on health acre reform.”

It’s off topic, but most of those things have to do with why I loathe the Democrats.

Except loathing is too weak a word.

Jun 23, 2009 - 11:00 pm 201. The Iran crisis moves closer to home | Newpapers Collected:

[...] Iran expert Michael Ledeen says he has no idea what’s going to happen. But there are signs that the regime is preparing [...]

Jun 23, 2009 - 11:21 pm 202. SeanLA:

188. jharp:
wait a second jharp,
the Democratic Party fought to expand slavery and, after the Civil War, established Jim Crow Laws and Black Codes
http://www.lincolnheritage.org/About_Us/Resources/Weekly_Magazine/New_Articles/An_Open_Letter_to_the_Democrat/an_open_letter_to_the_democrat.html
t should also be noted that the very first Republican platform in 1856 included planks that addressed in negative terms those very same “institutions” that the Democrat Party wished to preserve. The GOP, in contrast, often had language to mitigate the status of blacks and minorities, to lift them out of oppression. In fact, the GOP has been at the forefront of supporting rights for blacks since its earliest days. Without the GOP, for instance, the 1964 civil rights bill could never have passed.
http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index.php?pid=29619
we can find racist language or language to protect “institutions” (read slavery) in the states in the platforms of many Democrat Party platforms. Decade after decade all the way up until modern times http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/platforms.php

Jun 23, 2009 - 11:48 pm 203. Robohobo:

Alexis @ 117: – “As a rule, those who use the terms “wingnut” or “moonbat” should be regarded as future Benedict Arnolds, for they have become so thoroughly convinced that other Americans are the worst enemy of America that they would align themselves with America’s worst enemies, all the while believing themselves to be true patriots.”

I think that should be corrected to exclude ‘moonbat’. Here is the deal and, for the record, I do not completely disagree.

I was a uber-liberal most of my life. Raised by a Communist and a (now called) ‘Progressive’ liberal. I know their game plans by heart. I started to make the transition when I noticed that despite the Leftists screaming at the top of their lungs that their speech was being limited, they in fact were the ones who were attempting to limit speech and other freedoms. IOW, the liberal side was projecting 24/7 and at high volume. OTOH, the conservative side seemed to remain pretty respectful and open to free discussion of ideas.

I started to make the transition to the libertarian/conservative side of the political street with Clinton. His rampant corruption just made me cringe. Then his wife’s whine of the VRWC just sent me over. They were so disingenuous I could no longer countenance their viewpoints. There is more of course, but libertarianism and conservatism make so much more real-world sense.

Long story, Alexis, the Left has been the side that has flung the poo the mostest and the firstest. So just giving the idiots as good as we get is only fair. And besides, it is the intertubes and the blogosphere, fer heavens sake! Poo is to be flung and in mass quantities!

And to paraphrase Gutfield, and if you disagree with that, then you dear madam, are worse than Hitler!

jharp @ 156: – “It is conservatism that I loathe. You know stuff like denying women the right to vote, slavery, denying black people the right to vote, denying black people the right to marry white people. Stuff like that.”

EPIC FAIL! You should NOT have slept through history!

It is amusing to see Delia try and reason with this jharp critter. He calls people names then cries when they do the same back at him. jharp? Are you sure you are not really Perez Hilton? The guy/gay who tried to get all ghetto attitude on will.i.am and got smacked down?

Delia – If you have to go, we understand. Shalom. Or meet us over at wretchard’s place.

Jun 24, 2009 - 12:05 am 204. Rachel Peepers:

September 1, 1939.
Poland.
Nobody came, but Nazi tyrants and SS killers.

October 23, 1956
Hungary
No help came from the west. Thousands of freedom fighters were killed. The USSR put its boot to Hungary’s neck while the world watched.

June 15, 2009
Iran, Democratic student protestors wounded and shot by Israeli hating, religious extremists in government. No help arriving. President Obama’s silence speaks volumes relative to his lack of commitment to liberty.

Jharp revels in the attack on student democrats while backing freedom-hating, jew-hating government.

Jharp gets PJM commenters riled because he lies like a present day liberal Islamo extremist.

Member of FBI who writes on PJM has kindly offered to get Jharp personal info for Rachel Peepers so she can decide whether or not to institute a libel suit in an juris amicus capacity.

Jharp, when we find you, for your sake you better have funds to defend class actions. If not, court will likely issue summary judgment. At which time, you can say goodbye to assets.

The moral of this story. Start lying on PJM, say the wrong thing to the wrong people, and get a court date. FYI, lawyers are $200 an hour and up. Have a nice day. Rachel

Jun 24, 2009 - 12:54 am 205. vivo:

75. Delia:

“Michael Ledeen,
Completely OT but, here are my upgrade wishes for PJM:”

Charge by the word
Eliminate left-wingers
Eliminate right-wingers
Don’t allow humor
Typeface should be red
Blue on Sundays
Green on Mondays
Name me president of the world.
“FU-c-k YOUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!” when I’m in a bad mood.”(Delia’s most delicate response)

Jun 24, 2009 - 2:47 am 206. Typos_R_Us:

“You guys are utterly absurd. I’d have thought the last two elections would knock some sense into you. Instead you’ve only become more preposterous.”

About as much sense as the 2000 and 2004 knocked into you. I could go all the way back to 1994, but I don’t want you taking your shoes off.

“What’s it gonna take for you idgets to try a little common sense and forget the “I hate everything Obama”?”

When you open your eyes to the EVIDENCE that Saddam had WMD and moved it to Syria. Not a day sooner.
It would also help if you looked up President Bush’s plan to invade Iraq and establish a democracy there. Part of his reasoning was that a Democracy in Iraq would encourage the growth of Democracy in Iran. I will admit that I got a good chuckle out of that and pointed out that Democracy in America hadn’t managed to make it across 90 miles of water to Cuba or across the DMZ to N. Korea.
It seems I was wrong. For evidence I give you the current unrest in Iran. I don’tthink they will make it this time, but maybe nexttime. And there will be a next time.

As far as your bombing post, that was from Salon, which is at least as far left as the HuffyPo.
Since when has the right been held responsible for the moonbats of the Left? We will bomb Iran when we have to. I’ll regret it then as will everyone that values human life (conservatives, the left doesn’t see humans as having a greater value then the state. That is why they are socialists.)
After the Mullahs Nuke New York, I’ll bet you are leading the pack that is baying for blood.
I’m not in FAVOR of any military action against Iran, I’m just pointing out the facts, which are that it’s inevitable ( that means it’s only a matter of time) and the longer we wait, the more people will die. Maybe this is just to nuanced for you?
Maybe an analogy (example) will help;
I’m almost 70 and my front yard is about midway between ankle an knee deep in grass. Bermuda, just starting to seed. It is about 94 on the front porch in the shade and I’m really not excited about following my lawnmower around the yard. It has to be done and waiting will just make it worse. In another hour it will be past 100 and the weather won’t break for days. Nor will the grass stop growing. So I will do it now, before it gets worse.
Something you puppies have yet to learn. Putting off an unpleasant task DOES NOT make it any more pleasant.

We bomb now or we bomb later. Now is better.
Your mistake is thinking that not bombing is an option.
If you want to be a Surrender Monkey, immigrate. There is a place in Europe that is famous for Wine and surrender. Maybe you would be happy there. Just leave your Burqua at home.

Jun 24, 2009 - 5:44 am 207. gclarke:

Rachel Peepers # 197

“September 1, 1939.
Poland.
Nobody came, but Nazi tyrants and SS killers.”

Don’t forget Stalin and his storm troopers too, who shot 20,000 Polish Officers in the back of the neck in the Katyn Forest in 1939, and got a pass and historical amnesia in his favor because, in 1941, Churchill’s Royal Navy Wall made Hitler turn east. (Then in 1944 Stalin blamed Katyn Forest, and the 20,000 corpses on Hitler).

But Remember. The “Eternal Peace Pact” that got WWII started was Ribbentrop’s Deal with Molotov in August 1939 to divide Poland between them after Chamberlain at Munich had shown that an insincere piece of paper would keep the British and French at their long Depression Nap.

So the rest of your post is great. But don’t forget the other guy who started WWII and then, as the Luckiest Guy on the Planet, accidentally ended up our ally and a Victor. (Impervious and Unrequited Evil at the level of Stalin’s only comes along every thousand years).

Jun 24, 2009 - 6:18 am 208. Nine-of-Diamonds:

“Specifically the not allowing women the right to vote, slavery, not allowing black people the right to vote, not allowing black people to marry white people, and current to today I especially loathe the conservative positive on health acre reform.

You are a fool on a fools errand.”

The ignorance – it’s strong in this one!

A couple points:

-It was a Republican who ended anti-interracial marriage laws in my state – over the objections of knuckle-dragger dems like, well, jharp.

-It was Republicans and anti-slavery politicians who, during the post-civil war era, helped form the basis of the movement for women’s sufferage.

-When one of Bush’s black cabinet appointees was asked why he was a Republican and not a Donk, the answer was simple: “Because the Democrats were the ones lynching us!”

-It’s the dems, not the reps, who persistently view moral issues as a matter of personal choice. (Abortion, slavery – the list goes on.) Assuming that justices should make rulings based on “empathy”, as the Messiah states, what’s to stop a white justice from making rulings based on his empathy for members of Stormfront or the Hammerskins?

-Finally, just for laughs, which one of the following had a white trash pro-segregationist Democrat father?

-A) Mickey Mouse
-B) Michael Steele
-C) jharp
-D) Al “Gorebal Warming” Gore

Oh, and lol at your insistence that Frank Marshall’s little Affirmative Action bastard is still “popular”. Based on what – the same polls that said he was going to win over 60% of the vote? I’d love to see the internals on those polls – specifically, urban/rural split, racial representation, and sample size.

Jun 24, 2009 - 6:29 am 209. jharp:

Rachel Peepers:

“Jharp, when we find you, for your sake you better have funds to defend class actions. If not, court will likely issue summary judgment. At which time, you can say goodbye to assets.”

Bring. It. On.

Jun 24, 2009 - 6:34 am 210. Nine-of-Diamonds:

@200: That’s a good point. Nothing irritates me more than Leftists who babble about how the Soviets “won WWII” and deserve almost all the credit. In my opinion it’s fitting that they suffered disproportionate casualties because they were the ones who helped abet Hitler in the first place. Stalin sent supplies to Nazi Germany up until the eve of Operation Barbarossa, and spent much of 1939-1941 trying to placate his new “ally”. It’s been said that the incoming Nazis passed Soviet trains packed with raw materials destined for Germany. Furthermore, many of the Soviet casualties are attributable to prewar purges of their best generals, political killings, gross incompetence, etc. etc.

Jun 24, 2009 - 6:36 am 211. jharp:

“If you really think that most conservatives support slavery, oppose women’s suffrage, and oppose black suffrage, you don’t know the conservatives I know.”

I don’t think so. But clearly they have in the past and my point is liberalism is what brought about change.

Jun 24, 2009 - 6:37 am 212. Nine-of-Diamonds:

Bring. It. On.

Good. Make sure you ask your little messianic halfrican bastard for a little $ from Soros.

Jun 24, 2009 - 6:38 am 213. Nine-of-Diamonds:

“I don’t think so. But clearly they have in the past and my point is liberalism is what brought about change.”

lol. A slack-jawed historical illiterate. Perhaps he’s some trashy Dem from the boondocks whose ancestors were directly related to each other…

Jun 24, 2009 - 6:41 am 214. jharp:

Nine-of-Diamonds:

I’ve been thru this on too many wingnut blogs to mention.

Read slowly and let in sink in.

I spoke of liberals, not republicans or democrats.

I suppose you believe the dixiecrats were liberals. Is that right?

The republicans were hijacked by the conservative racist bible freak ex confederacy in the 80’s.

I stand by my words. It was liberals we have to think for the end of slavery, women’s suffrage, the civil rights act, and allowing black people to marry white people.

Conservatives fought it every step of the way. In one case leading to the deaths of 800,000 American’s.

Jun 24, 2009 - 6:44 am 215. jharp:

212. Nine-of-Diamonds:

“Good. Make sure you ask your little messianic halfrican bastard”

That’s nice. No reason to sit idly and let people think you are a racist. You might as well just make a post that confirms it.

You, my friend, are a racist.

Jun 24, 2009 - 6:47 am 216. BettyBlue:

jharp, you really are historically illiterate, aren’t you?

For instance, slavery had ended, and women had the vote, long before the 1980’s.

Jun 24, 2009 - 6:49 am 217. jharp:

BettyBlue:

“jharp, you really are historically illiterate, aren’t you?”

No. But you are an ignorant fool.

Go read my post again and think. Liberal vs. conservative. Not dem vs republican.

Jun 24, 2009 - 6:52 am 218. Nine-of-Diamonds:

“Ray-sist!” oh noes!

Lol – I’m not your friend, cockroach.

And your whole dixiecrat ramble is a typical SPLC lie – a vast number of Southern Republican voters were “immigrants” to the Southern states who moved circa 1950-1990, and not “native” white southerners. Remaining democrat was still a viable strategy for numerous racist southern politicians well into the 1980’s – witness the Southern Dem representative a few years ago who railed against Republican racism on the house floor, only to get caught performing in blackface.

Oh, and good to see you’re so worked up over anonymous internet commentators, as opposed to a commander-in-thief who

1) wants as many black kids as possible aborted
2) will destroy what’s left of minority small businesses with punitive taxation
3) whisks his own kids off to private schools while denying vouchers to poor black & latino students.
4) relies on black media to promote himself, and then sells them out post-inauguration to play the part of the “good negro” to his white yuppie demographic.

Onward postracialism!

Jun 24, 2009 - 6:59 am 219. David W. Lincoln:

First of three columns from the National Post (A
Canadian Newspaper):
George Jonas: Obama keeps America’s fingerprints off tyranny
Posted: June 24, 2009, 9:15 AM by NP Editor
George Jonas, Full Comment

Seventy years ago, the incumbent in the White House felt it expedient to say he’d keep America out of overseas entanglements. When Franklin Delano Roosevelt said so, one took it for granted it was to protect America from the world. When the current incumbent says so, one suspects it’s to protect the world from America.

FDR seemed to think his job specs included defending American values. Not hurting the feelings of fanatical foes came second. When Hitler’s armies invaded Poland in September 1939, FDR used his regular radio broadcast to register his administration’s reaction:

“This nation will remain a neutral nation,” Roosevelt told listeners in his Fireside Chat, “but I cannot ask that every American remain neutral in thought as well. Even a neutral has a right to take account of facts. Even a neutral cannot be asked to close his mind or close his conscience.”

Closing both came easily enough to the current occupant of the White House last week. Barack Obama didn’t feel he had a right to take account of facts. A day after Iran’s Fuhrer, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, warned of bloodshed if Iranians continued to protest what looked to them like a rigged election, Obama chose not to wax eloquent but cryptic.

“The world is watching, ” he declared on CBS, tripping over the fine line that separates diplomacy from pussyfooting. “How [Iran’s leaders] approach and deal with people who are, through peaceful means, trying to be heard will, I think, send a pretty clear signal to the international community about what Iran is — and is not.”

It was a “pretty clear signal” all right, but mainly about what America’s present-day administration is and is not. If anyone remained in any doubt about it, Dianne Feinstein, chair of the Senate intelligence committee, dispelled it in a subsequent CNN interview. “It is very crucial, as I see it,” Feinstein said about the Tehran demonstrations, “that we not have our fingerprints on this.”

Not to worry, Ms. Feinstein. Under Obama’s presidency, America is unlikely to have its fingerprints on democratic reforms in Islamo-fascist tyrannies. Even secular Oriental despots, like North Korea’s Kim Jong-il, need not be overly concerned. In fact, with the exception of flies in the Oval Office, which the free world’s well-co-ordinated leader seems adept at dispatching, all pesky irritants buzzing around the globe are safe for the time being.

Why Obama’s reluctance to let America’s fingerprints adorn resistance to despotism or blackmail? Is it a religious thing in general or a Muslim thing in particular — or is it a Third World thing? Does Obama have a soft spot for people in turbans, jodhpurs, kurtas, grass skirts or leopard skins defying or challenging values and systems associated with the West, even values and systems he ostensibly shares, endorses and promotes?

No point in speculating. We have at least four years to find out. Maybe eight, because Obama is popular, except among flies. Meanwhile, what’s going to happen in Iran?

The ruling theocrats of Tehran should win, but the week of June 22 finds them behind the eight ball. They’re flunking How To Be A Despot 101. In power struggles, if you can neither reconcile nor repress, you’re likely to lose. How to avoid falling between stools is among the first lessons they teach freshmen in tyrant-school, but the ayatollahs seem to have missed it.

It’s shaping up as a revolution against Iran’s theocracy, but it didn’t start out as one. It started out as a plea for a gentler, kinder theocracy: a theocracy with a human face. The people of Iran seemed quite content to accept one of the Supreme Leader’s approved candidates. Having picked (or believing they had) Mir Hossein Mousavi, a veteran of the Islamic revolution — a man they thought might relax some of the harsher requirements of fundamentalist Islam, improve the economy and help Iran have better press abroad — they just wanted Ayatollah Ali Khamenei’s blessing.

But the Supreme Leader preferred the crude clown Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, so instead of his blessing, Iranians got repression — but not Tiananmen Square-class repression that might have done the trick, only a kick in the pants. It wasn’t soldiers in tanks, just thugs on motorcycles shooting passersby, turning one young girl, Neda, into a martyr and doing just enough to inflame people and demonstrate that theocracy with a human face is an illusion as grotesque as the Prague Spring’s communism with a human face was 41 years ago.

The bumbling tyrants even emboldened nuanced Obama to mutter this week that the Tehran regime “must stop all violent and unjust actions against its people.” Atta boy, Mr. President! We knew you had it in you.

Of course, the nuclear mullahs may yet realize they hold all the cards. Mousavi is their own man. They can make a deal with him, or, conversely, put repression’s pedal to the metal and show the world that Stalin is alive and well and living in Tehran. They still have time for either, though not as much time as they may think.

Here is the second column from Lorne Gunter:
Where’s Obama’s ‘evil empire’ speech?

Lorne Gunter, National Post Published: Wednesday, June 24, 2009

In an interview five years ago with the Weekly Standard magazine, former Soviet dissident Natan Sharansky described the “brilliant moment” when he and his fellow prisoners in Siberia learned of Ronald Reagan’s “Evil Empire” speech.

Speaking to the National Association of Evangelicals in 1983, president Reagan urged delegates against taking a moral equivalence stance on nuclear proliferation. When voting later in their convention on whether to support a freeze in the nuclear arms race, it would be too easy, Mr. Reagan said, to “label both sides equally at fault.” That would “ignore the facts of history and the aggressive impulses of an evil empire.”

Mr. Sharansky and his fellow inmates tapped the president’s words to one another on the pipes and toilets in their prison. “Our whole block burst out into a kind of loud celebration.”

Simply by proclaiming “before the entire world” that the Soviet Union was “a totalitarian regime,” Mr. Reagan had made it impossible for other world leaders, and Soviet leaders themselves, to maintain the facade that Russia and its satellites were as righteous as the West.

Of course all the usual suspects — academics, European leaders, special-interest cause pleaders, foreign policy experts, journalists and other assorted appeasers — were aghast at Mr. Reagan’s remarks. Didn’t he understand that such rhetoric would only provoke Soviet leaders? Couldn’t he see how his words would be used to whip up nationalistic pride and divert the Soviet people’s attention from the abuses their own government was subjecting them to?

Of course, Soviet propagandists didn’t need Reagan’s real words to paint the West as a bogeyman. In the late-1970s, a defector from behind the Iron Curtain told British journalists that when he got to the West he half expected the streets to be paved with gold. Soviet politicians and editors had for so long spun such horror stories about conditions in the West that he would not have been surprised if the exact opposite had been true. Soviet citizens were already used to being lied to about the West.

Frank remarks, such as president Reagan’s, make very little difference to official attempts by brutal regimes to paint external forces as being responsible for the suffering and repression of the people. Indeed, as the Soviet example shows, autocrats often have the most trouble demonizing the West when its leaders are at their most outspoken.

Pravda and Izvestia both jumped on Mr. Reagan’s words, looking to whip up popular discontent. So did senior members of the Politburo, along with scores of Soviet-sympathetic professors and politicians in the West and foreign policy professionals who pontificated on news shows.

But where these experts pooh-poohed Mr. Reagan’s plain talk, the victims of Soviet violence and repression were not similarly dismissive. “It was one of the most important, freedom-affirming declarations,” according to Mr. Sharansky, “and we all instantly knew it. For us, that was the moment that really marked … the end of Lenin’s ‘Great October Bolshevik Revolution’ and the beginning of a new revolution, a freedom revolution.”

All of which brings me to current U. S. President Barack Obama’s flaccid endorsement of the freedom protesters in Iran today.

On the weekend, White House apologists were all over the news interview shows in the U. S. and elsewhere insisting Mr. Obama was merely taking a “measured” approach, not a timid one. He was choosing his words carefully so as not to give Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei rhetorical ammunition they could use against the West and to keep forces for reform from gaining ground within Iran.

Oh, please. Does anyone honestly believe that Ahmadinejad, who thinks nothing of denying the Holocaust (which, in and of itself, is an act of monumental dishonesty) — or insisting an oil-rich country needs a nuclear program only to generate electricity, or consorting with Hezbollah, or sending troops into the streets to have his own citizens clubbed and shot– needs real words from Mr. Obama to demonize the West?

A president’s strong words would be for the Natan Sharanskys of Iran, not the mad mullahs who run the country.

Withholding full-throated rhetorical support from the protesters encourages their repressors. It tells those wielding clubs and guns that the West is too weak and conflicted even to speak out.

It is the moral equivalence game from the Cold War all over again.

lgunter@shaw.ca

And here is the third from Peter Goodspeed:

Tehran shows no sign of softening stance

Safe to assume the regime intends to quash all opposition

Peter Goodspeed, National Post Published: Wednesday, June 24, 2009

Iran’s Guardians Council is expected to certify the re-election of President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad today, despite serious allegations of fraud, 10 days of protest and violence on a scale unprecedented in the Islamic Republic’s 30 years of existence.

Accused of having stolen an election and savagely suppressing the demonstrations, the regime will now likely move into a mode of extreme repression at home, while remaining isolated, withdrawn and dangerous internationally.

What happens next is almost as opaque as the elections that caused all the trouble. But the deep divisions that have shattered Iranian society and the way the government has tried to deal with them will dictate events for the foreseeable future.

For now, the government backlash against protesters shows every sign of intensifying.

Yesterday, security forces threatened a “decisive and revolutionary confrontation” with opposition demonstrators if protests continue. Officials have also set up special courts to try dissidents.

In the meantime, Iranian film director Mohsen Makhmalbaf, an informal opposition spokesman in Europe who is a friend of losing presidential candidate Mir Hossein Mousavi, claimed the former prime minister is under 24-hour guard by the secret police.

While he has not yet been arrested, Mr. Mousavi cannot speak to supporters freely and has had all means of communication cut off, Mr. Makhmalbaf said. The revelation came as Ali Shahrokhi, head of the Iranian parliament’s judiciary committee appeared on state-run television and denounced Mr. Mousavi’s calls for “illegal protests” and his “provocative statements.” These were “criminal acts that should be “confronted firmly.”

A pro-opposition website, the Tehran Bureau, said top reformers have already been rounded up and detained. They include: Mohsen Aminzadeh, deputy foreign minister under former president Mohammad Khatami and a director of Mr. Mousavi’s election campaign; Saeed Hajjarian, a leading reform strategist; Mostafa Tajzadeh, deputy interior minister in the first Khatami administration; and Mohammad Ali Abtahi, Mr. Khatami’s vice-president for parliamentary affairs and a principal advisor to Mahdi Karoubi, a reformist presidential candidate who was declared to have come in third in the June 12 election.

So far, repression has defused the massive protests that rocked Iran immediately after the election. The few thousand demonstrators who dared to take to the streets this week have been overwhelmingly outnumbered by the police and the thuggish Basiji, a religious militia. But there still remain some sensitive days ahead.

Grand Ayatollah Hossein-Ali Montazeri, an important dissident cleric, once designated Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini’s successor, has denounced the election results and called for three days of national mourning, starting today, for those killed in last week’s protests.

According to Shiite tradition, families and friends publicly mark the deaths of their loved ones on the third, seventh and 40th day after their deaths. During the Iranian Revolution,
those anniversaries became crucial rallying points for protest against the Shah. Yesterday, state-run news agencies in Iran reported Mr. Ahmadinejad will be sworn in for his second term before parliament, some time between July 26 and Aug. 19.

It is probably safe to predict the regime intends to squash all public opposition to Mr. Ahamdinejad’s reelection before his swearing-in.

In the meantime, Iran is already beginning to display a harsher face internationally. Sectarian violence and bombing attacks that may be linked to Iran have suddenly soared in neighbouring Iraq before the partial U. S. military withdrawal in August

Tehran has also ignored an invitation by the Group of Eight nations to attend a meeting in Trieste, Italy, tomorrow to discuss ways of stabilizing Afghanistan. More importantly, perhaps, in a bid to justify their crackdown at home, the hardline mullahs are blaming outside enemies, particularly the “Zionists and Britain,” for instigating street protests in Tehran.

Yesterday, Iran expelled two British diplomats after accusing London of meddling and spying. Ali Larijani, the parliamentary speaker, called for a “revision” of diplomatic ties with Britain after it responded by expelling two Iranian diplomats.

The diplomatic confrontation echoes similar conflicts with the United States during the early days of the Iranian Revolution, as Iran’s leaders deliberately courted international isolation to solidify support at home.

In an eerie echo of that earlier conflict, Iran’s interior ministry announced it refused a permit for a rally by “students” outside the British embassy in Tehran. In 1979, in a crucial turning point in the Iranian Revolution, “students” stormed and occupied the U. S. embassy.

“Don’t expect that this will be resolved cleanly with a win or loss in a short period of time,” said Gary Sick, a professor at Columbia University, who was the U. S. National Security Council expert on Iran during the revolution.

Mr. Sick said the revolution dragged on for nearly a year before the Shah fled. “During that period, there were long pauses and periods of quiescence that could lead one to believe that the revolt had subsided,” he said. “This is not a sprint; it is a marathon. Endurance is at least as important as speed.”

pgoodspeed@nationalpost.com———

QUOTE, UNQUOTE

U. S. President Barack Obama yesterday defended himself against Republican claims that he had been too timid in his response to the Iran crisis. Yesterday, he explained repeatedly that he did not want to give Iran’s leader any excuse to allege the United States was fomenting the dissent. So what has the President been saying about Iran?

June 15 “I am deeply troubled by the violence that I’ve been seeing on television.”

June 16 “What I will repeat, and what I said yesterday, is that when I see violence directed at peaceful protestors, when I see peaceful dissent being suppressed, wherever that takes place, it is of concern to me and it’s of concern to the American people.”

June 19 “I’m very concerned, based on some of the tenor and tone of the statements that have been made, that the government of Iran recognize that the world is watching.”

June 20 “We call on the Iranian government to stop all violent and unjust actions against its own people.”

National Post news services

My comment: I can see why no reference was made to the analysis by Steve Schippert. It introduces a wild card that is too potent to include, for it would require a very different
paradigm to include it, than one which does not include it.

Jun 24, 2009 - 7:01 am 220. BettyBlue:

Read this post, and drop the insults: http://www.americanthinker.com/2007/10/bobby_jindal_and_the_southern.html

Democrats are usually considered “liberal” these days, Republicans, “conservative”; Democrats become offended if you refer to them as “conservative” in any way; Conservative/Republican? Liberal/progressive? Same difference. You’re just playing with words.

Looking back at the progressive movement of the 19th, early 20th Century, (which, I guess, would have to pass for what you’d call “liberalism”; they didn’t call themselves “liberal”, back then, that’s a newer term); well, these progressives firmly believed in eugenics, despised traditional Christian believers, thought the races should be separated, marriages regulated and the “unfit” should be sterilized. They were opposed by “conservative” groups, such as the Catholic church.

Also, it was the more progressive, Marxist minded, anti-war types who tended to support Hitler during WWII. It was only when he turned on the “Motherland”, Russia, that they decided Facism was evil.

Really, try studying history.

Jun 24, 2009 - 7:03 am 221. BettyBlue:

In short, there really is no heroic movement of liberal, right-minded folk, marching through history to save us all.

There are some good movements, like the Enlightenment and the 18th Century anti-slavery movement; there are other movements, whose adherents think they’re doing good for the rest of us, such as the eugenics supporting progressives, Marxists and socialists of all kinds, when actually they’re spreading misery and suffering. None of these movements fit neatly into some good guy, “liberal/Democrat, Conservative/Republican” definition. Martin Luther King was a Christian minister, after all, and much of the black civil rights movement began in black churchs—anathema to today’s leftists! As for womens’ sufferage, the suffragettes were strongly anti-abortion, a stance that would certainly get them kicked out of the feminist movements of today.

Jun 24, 2009 - 7:09 am 222. Marie Claude:

Alexis

“France’s history of colonialism, Argentina’s history of civil war, and Russia’s history of gulags don’t mean they have no moral right to condemn tyranny,”

uh not the British empire ? (nah, the British civilesed, the others were greedy barbarians LMAO) umm , I can guess for whom your heart beats

Jun 24, 2009 - 7:09 am 223. Marie Claude:

Whatever will happen to Iran, just don’t forget that the anthelm they sung on their “barricades” was “allah oukbar”, check the picks taken during the last Gaza war (#85), while they aim to more freedom, they’ll still remain a strong and fiercy opponent to our civilisation

Jun 24, 2009 - 7:18 am 224. Michael:

Delia I applaude you! Anyone who gets Vivo to pop his cork is OK with me.

To think all it took was the idea of the very mildest suggestion for the mildest rules for civility.

Jun 24, 2009 - 7:56 am 225. Nine-of-Diamonds:

Well said, Betty. Much more accurate than the revisionism (lies) by modern-day leftists who try to take credit for other philosophies’ achievments. I have read newspapers from the 1800’s in which the Democrats commented on the abolitionist/women’s rights movements. The filth that they spewed about blacks and females is simply beyond belief. Their modern ideological successors are like minded; they believe that mistreatment of others is OK as long as it can be stylized as an issue of “personal choice” or “autonomy”.

Jun 24, 2009 - 8:10 am 226. BettyBlue:

Thanks for the kind words, Nine-of-Diamonds!

Here’s an interesting article on what’s happening in Iran, describing the involvement of Hamas and Hizbollah—two groups supported by contemporary liberals. Yes, mistreatment of others is okay, if it’s “personal choice”, “autonomy” or a favored victim group: http://breathofthebeast.blogspot.com/2009/06/iran-where-blood-is-real-and-world-is.html

Jun 24, 2009 - 8:18 am 227. Saahle Manesh:

Dr Ledeed

Could you kindly get off the soap box campaigning for this murderous Mousavi regime goon?

The difference between Mousavi and Ahmadinejad is the difference between the Black Plague and Cholerra

We are seeing signs of the uprising changing direction away from regime hatchet men like your favorite Mousavi, and towards finding a solution OUTSIDE the regime.
I know you and the CIA don’t like that But this is NOT 30-years ago, you cannot shove another Khomeini down peoples throats :)

Jun 24, 2009 - 8:56 am 228. jharp:

224. Nine-of-Diamonds:

“I have read newspapers from the 1800’s in which the Democrats commented on the abolitionist/women’s rights movements. The filth that they spewed about blacks and females is simply beyond belief.”

You are a moron. The point is they were conservatives. Why is that so hard to understand?

Liberals championed abolishing slavery, womens suffrage, the civil rights act, allowing blacks and whites to marry, allowing black people the right to vote.

Good Lord, are you really that dense?

Jun 24, 2009 - 8:58 am 229. BettyBlue:

Actually, it was Christians doing much of the work abolishing slavery: http://www.forerunner.com/forerunner/X0537_Christian_Abolitioni.html

Jun 24, 2009 - 10:36 am 230. David W> Lincoln:

Today’s “liberals” have as much in common with “classical liberals”, as
water has with gasoline. Today’s liberals are still statist closed universe followers, whereas classical liberals ask, “Is that all there is?”

Jun 24, 2009 - 10:38 am 231. BettyBlue:

And woman themselves championed womens’ suffrage. They believed, by the way, in marriage, and were anti-abortion, which would make them persona non grata with liberals today.

And it was Christian black churches, led by men like Martin Luther King, who were the force behind the civil rights movement—you know, “Bible thumpers.” (And, as you’ll recall, King was actually considered a sell-out, and an “Uncle Tom”, by many hip liberals of the of 60’s and 70’s, who preferred the more macho, and Marxist, Black Panthers.)

Sorry, but—are you really that dense? They didn’t have “liberals” back in the day, not as any organized group fighting bravely for human rights, or all wanting the same thing. In the 19th and 20th Centuries, there were “progressives”, who wanted things such as forced sterilization for “human trash”, “free love” and for women of the “higher” classes to devote themselves to bearing children, so America could avoid “race suicide.” There were also a lot of Marxists who, up until Hitler attacked Russia, had no problem at all with the Hitler/Stalin pact.

Not nice people; certainly not people who concerned themselves much with ending slavery, womens’ rights or blacks and whites marrying (an idea the progressive eugenists would have found disgusting.) You can call such people “conservative” if you like, but, again, you’ll just be playing with words. They considered themselves believers in progress, enemies of tradition, and traditional religion, the vanguard of the future.

And, certainly, the Marxists who supported Hitler didn’t consider themselves champions either of American values, or conservative values.

If you have some links, some information that will actually prove there was some sort of liberal movement, from the beginning of history, fighting for human rights, I’d be glad to see them. Otherwise, you need to study history more, and quit trying to divert attention from the actual topic of the thread—i.e., what’s going on in Iran?

Jun 24, 2009 - 10:47 am 232. Michael:

Look deeper jharp. You might not be too comfortable with some of the beliefs of some of those liberals from the Civil War time.

The age people live in has a profound affect on what they think, obviously. After all, who in 1965 would have thought that today’s “liberals” would be the ones dogedly holding on to racial preferences and the “conservatives” would be the ones who want people to be judged by the content of their character.

Jun 24, 2009 - 10:56 am 233. TedN:

Why is the US so limp in its response to the crisis? Well, I would ask you to reflect for a moment on the interesting parallels between the current regime in Iran and our own here in the US. Obama has, is and will always be campaigning/fighting for his political future and to remain in power and keep his party in power. He doesn’t want to have to be popular with the people, but he needs their support, and support has begun to wane. Similar to the mullahs and Ahmadinejad who are fighting to retain control in Iran, Obama will not hesitate to silence those who criticize or oppose him. Check the latest round of administration firings for your proof. Obama feels a strong bond to those in the struggle of the powerful over those who have granted them that power. Obama and his czars will continue to move to consolidate their power as the Imams have done, until that point when they can’t be challenged any longer. That is the dream of the powerful and power hungry in this world. To go against Ahmadinejad would be to go against his own ‘brother’ religiously and politically speaking. Let’s pray this story isn’t rewritten in the near future about Philadelphia or Detroit instead of Tehran. God protect those who fight for freedom and democracy.

Jun 24, 2009 - 11:04 am 234. Alexis:

Marie Claude:

I had considered adding the British Empire to the list, but I cut the number at three for literary reasons. One could add Germany, Brazil, Japan, Turkey, China – lots of places have a dark past. One could even add (drum roll please) ……… Iran to the list!

Concerning your reference on Egyptian S********* to Charles Maurras’s supposed influence in America, there has been some influence of ideas from Action Française on some people from America’s “Christian Right”. (Hence, the infamous reaction of Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson to the September 11 attacks.) However, I think you overstated that influence. I think the worldview of Charles Maurras is much closer to that of Father Coughlin than to the “Christian Right” as we know it today. If you look at how Action Française acted toward the cinema of Salvador Dali, there is a much closer resemblance to Basiji tactics than the what most factions of the “Christian Right” stand for today.

I think that many recent statements by Nicholas Sarkozy have been praiseworthy. Francophobes may claim that France has no moral right to criticize Iran’s brutality given France’s history in Mexico, Algeria, Congo, and Vietnam. However, I think France’s new leadership understands the importance of standing for France’s republican virtues rather than claiming that France should have no moral right to speak on behalf of liberty.

Jun 24, 2009 - 11:25 am 235. Saahle Manesh:

Death to ALL of Islamic Regime, including Mousavi, MI5’s favorite pony; Khatami EU’s favorite mullah bitch boy; and the corrupt Mafia mullah Rafsanjani,anglo-saxons of both sides of Atlantic’s favorite Islamist Mafia boss who they want to put back on top in Iran–

It seems these CIA “Analysts” and Iran “experts” who claim they want ‘regime change’ are only out to get Khamenei and Ahmadinejad(i.e.,KGB mullahs, at al); but they want to keep the regime itself intact with their own frigging murderous Islamist goons like Mousavi/Khatami/Rafsnajani
back in power. Well, it’s not gonna work. Not this time. You inserted Khomeini up peoples’ collective derriers back in 1979. But history cannot be repeated anymore. Now you made up a new ‘Khomeini’ and had him wear that ugly “Shiite-y” green and want to pull the wool over peoples’ eyes again.

This time you can take that plot to the grave with you boys! It ain’t gonna happen.
People will not be fooled twice so that you can impose another Islamic fascist state on them under the guise of phony fake ‘reformists’ who have all been murderers in this freaking regime. BBC and VOA pulled this garbage Mousavi and his garbage black-crow bitch Zahra Rahnavard out of the dumpster and presented them as ‘reformists’– How idiotic and lame!

Nice try on that Saudi-green BS color you tried to pull, but no cigars for you or the EU– Sorry
My condolences to Dr. Ledeen as well for claiming he wants regime change in Iran, but in effect being the loudspeaker for the EU/Obama/CIA plan to give the regim a surgery to keep it going for another 30 years, sans Khamenei et al.

Well Dr., it’s not working, and it will not be working.:):):)

Jun 24, 2009 - 12:21 pm 236. Greg:

This is our fault. As an observer of life for the past 60+ years I’ve often commented that “abusive” behavior is most notably “wrong” when perpetrated on the weak. Too often those wishing to object to someone forcing their will upon someone else will align themselves with a “cause” (women’s and/or children’s rights, minorities, gays etc…). When will a significant (meaning physically and financially powerful) Human Rights force emerge and FIGHT for the oppressed regardless of who the oppressed may be. Stop making it about specific groups. ALL of this needs to end, quickly before it is too late. When you take advantage of the weak… you should reap the wrath of ALL well intentioned people wherever and whomever they are… not just gays, or the hungry, or the homeless, or the disenfranchised, or women, or Palistineans or Jews or Croatians, short people, fat people or whatever. Stop the bullying! Stop hurting those that are weaker than you…or we will hurt you… seriously… we will hurt you. Toothless rhetoric will not work. Until humankind says no and means it, we will continue to get what we deserve. Where is the leadership we need? Where are the resources we need? Someone with a bully pulpit and deep pockets needs to say enough is enough. The last resource is always force, whether you are a policeman or a school teacher. You can plead, reason and beg… but in the long haul… if the abusive party is non-cooperative to the point where his behavior is threatening others… you use force. The role of Peace Making at the UN needs to be re-addressed and the citizens of those Security Council nations need to rise up and insist that their representatives do not use their Veto power to allow Politics and Sovereignty to protect those using unrighteous domain over the weak… regardless of where, by whom or upon whom it is being wrought.

This is not idealism. It is not irrational thinking. It is simply thinking outside the box. We have a “flat earth” now. Some resourceful force needs to begin a movement that is internationally and multi-culturally indifferent. Call it “HOPE” for Helping Others Peacefully Exist, and get a ribbon logo, a credit card sponsor, an international banking group, an international advertising group, a bunch of celebrities, government coalitions, etc… It will take 10 years but if Hollywood and Coca Cola can do it so can a well organized and well funded movement of decency and fair play. The Network movie of “I’m mad as hell…” comes to mind but in 140 languages and countries all screaming and “striking” at once.

Do it damn it!!! Stop “observing” and “commenting” and “advising”… I’m speaking to anyone with a bully pulpit… not just bloggers.

Jun 24, 2009 - 12:25 pm 237. Marie Claude:

“I think the worldview of Charles Maurras is much closer to that of Father Coughlin than to the “Christian Right” as we know it today. If you look at how Action Française acted toward the cinema of Salvador Dali, there is a much closer resemblance to Basiji tactics than the what most factions of the “Christian Right” stand for today.”

You have to put “Action française” back into its historical context, I doubt that any “rightful” organisation (in Europe too) had a positive view on the surrealists, plus Salvador Dali was seen as a “deviant”, and these even weren’t the inclinations of the commies ; now “Action directe” was more for the “order, and that is why lots of its members opted for the german order, “non à la chienlit” (see the term in wikipedia, can’t see that they shared the “Basiji tactics”

“France’s new leadership”, I didn’t see that Chirac, neither Mitterand, endorsed Iranian policies since the removing of the Shah, in the contrary, they blocked the Mullahcraty the access to nuclear knowledge and the carrying on the works that stared with the Shah, this is also why we got many terrorist attacks in Paris from them, and the crash of our plane on Tenere

Jun 24, 2009 - 12:36 pm 238. Saahle Manesh:

Marie Claude;

The crash of Air France happened around the time when Sarkozy opened a new military base in Persian Gulf, as well as before teh “Green Coup d’etats” in Iran by EU.

I bet you Khamenei and his ‘Vavak’(secret police)ordered their Arab terrorist goons to do it. But the black box has been ‘conveniently’ lost under the sea.
Chances are that Khamenei at al had knowledge of the EU Green coup d’etats before it happened thru their ties and channels with KGB

Again, good luck MI5 and CIA, looks like your bitch boy network Mousavi/Karrubi/Khatami/Rafsanjani ship is sinking in the mud!

Jun 24, 2009 - 1:05 pm 239. Marie Claude:

“The crash of Air France happened around the time when Sarkozy opened a new military base in Persian Gulf, as well as before teh “Green Coup d’etats” in Iran by EU.”

umm, you’re dispointing me, it’ain’t due to one of the conspiracy’s attempts to dress this accident as a terrorist attack, all the experts are conviced it was caused by erroned calculs of speed, due to the Pitot sensors

http : // www .eurocockpit .com/

Jun 24, 2009 - 2:54 pm 240. Thomas L......:

It’s good that we can just ignore all posts that are posted by the known PuffHo troll(s) and its sockpuppets. Type even longer posts that I can continue to ignore, please. Pages and pages of stuff that will not enlighten or even engage me. Keep it up. I look forward to not reading all or any of it. I get enough Obama Talking Points from the MSM without a chorus of idjits chiming in.

Jun 24, 2009 - 2:57 pm 241. Delia:

The PuffHosers must be having a twinkie and ding-dong break.

Great posts [non-trools and hat tips to the non-Puffhosers.

Mr. Ledeen is having major surgery so lets wish him the best.

The blood-shed still going on in Iran scares the colon blow cereal out of me. Jihad watch website was dos attacked. Not kewl.

P.S. ‘kewl’ is just a lame dork word for ‘cool’ that I use because it cracks me up.

Jun 24, 2009 - 3:29 pm 242. Delia:

-And, hell no I’m not quitting PJM. I’d need a 12-step group to help me first. I just like making dramatic exits when I get sick of the sickos. he-he-he

F-U-ck YOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!!!, vivo. See? I even spelled your name all lowercase like you prefer. You know you really want me in the worst way. *kiss-wink*

Jun 24, 2009 - 3:32 pm 243. Nine-of-Diamonds:

I just love how the point about moral issues/autonomy flies right over his little neanderthal head. My point is that the “liberals” of the 1859 era, like the “liberals” today, dismissed weighty moral issues as irrelevant due to their fixation on “personal choice” – even at the expense of harming those whom they did not consider “persons”. Additionally, they advocate(d) a subjective view of justice that was extremely harmful to individual liberty. If it weren’t for the difference in skin color, Justice Taney of Dredd Scott fame would be quite at home with the racially chauvanist viewpoints of Sonia Sotomayor(sp), Eric Holder, and the Affirmative Action Messiah himself. The only real difference is that 0bama’s lackeys make a mockery of justice in the name of “minority rights”, whereas Taney did the same in defense of slave owners’ rights.

And note how the trolls still can’t answer the question: if we’re going to dispense disparate, racially motivated justice in the name of “fairness”, what’s to stop a pro-skinhead/Christian Identity justice from setting Stormfront members free because he feels that the “white viewpoint” needs to be heard, or that the “white way of life” is under assault?

Jun 24, 2009 - 4:02 pm 244. Saahle Manesh:

If you think there are no conspiracies, then you’re exactly the type of sheep NATO is targeting

Jun 24, 2009 - 4:22 pm 245. Marie Claude:

ahle Manesh

you’re not talking of the AF 447 crash, are you ?

Jun 24, 2009 - 4:26 pm 246. Saahle Manesh:

No I think we’re talking 2 different animals–
but nevertheless, daeth to Islamic regime in Iran– to ALL of it– Not only Khamenei Bad, Mousavi/Khatami/Rafsanjani Good- That’s pure bull

Jun 24, 2009 - 4:52 pm 247. David W. Lincoln:

Here is the “why” as to why Khameini and those who follow him, why their days are numbered, and
they are found wanting, like Belteshazzar:
http://cgis.jpost.com/Blogs/foxman/entry/standing_with_iranians_against_tyranny

Jun 24, 2009 - 5:35 pm 248. David W. Lincoln:

More good news:

http://threatswatch.org/rapidrecon/2009/06/rafsanjani-has-votes-to-remove/

Jun 24, 2009 - 6:30 pm 249. Alexis:

Actually, I’m a conspiracy of one.

Jun 24, 2009 - 6:47 pm 250. Delia:

249. Alexis:

“Actually, I’m a conspiracy of one.”

LOL! Is that like an ‘Army of ONE’ hold the mayo, add extra spicy mustard?

Jun 24, 2009 - 10:19 pm 251. vivo:

242. Delia:

Who wants an alcoholic hag? I can tell NOBODY is fkg you.

Jun 24, 2009 - 11:07 pm 252. michael hoskins:

W.

251 comments. Wow. Seems mostly new folk. Some deterioration in quality. (See # 251).

Hope its worth it.

PS OT. The key to the hip…do the physical therapy…religously…good luck!

Jun 25, 2009 - 5:04 am 253. Delia:

vivo,

Nice try. LOL!

Jun 25, 2009 - 6:15 am 254. Delia:

Breaking News:

U.S. Withdraws July 4th Invite to Iranian Diplomats

By Glenn Kessler
So much for “hot-dog diplomacy.” The White House announced today that it had withdrawn invitations to Iranian diplomats to attend Fourth of July festivities at U.S. embassies around the world.

The United States and Iran have not had diplomatic relations for nearly three decades, but Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton authorized the invitations as a way of reaching out to the Islamic Republic. But U.S. officials said no Iranian diplomats thus far had responded to the invitations.

“July Fourth allows us to celebrate the freedom and the liberty we enjoy,” White House spokesman Robert Gibbs said. “Freedom of speech. Freedom of religion. Freedom to assemble peacefully. Freedom of the press. So I don’t think it’s surprising that nobody’s signed up to come.”

Gibbs added: “Given the events of the past many days, those invitations will no longer be extended.”

During a news conference on Wednesday, President Obama had indicated the invitations were still being extended. Asked if the July 4th offer still stood, Obama responded: “That’s a choice the Iranians are going to have to make.”

Jun 25, 2009 - 7:09 am 255. vivo:

253. Delia:

“U.S. Withdraws July 4th Invite to Iranian Diplomats

So much for “hot-dog diplomacy.” ”

Do Islamic Iranians eat hot dogs?

(Would they serve Hebrew National kosher?) . . .

Jun 25, 2009 - 10:27 pm

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