While we’re carefully NOT rushing to any conclusions about the Fort Hood terrorist attack, it’s useful to reflect on the recent indictments of two North Americans for preparing to carry out attacks on a Danish newspaper. They are David Headley and Tahawwur Hussain Rana. Both are from Chicago; Headley is an American citizen, while Rana, a native Pakistani, is Canadian. They are charged with plotting attacks on the facilities and the employees of the Copenhagen Morgenavisen Jyllands-Posten, which famously published the famous cartoons of the Prophet Mohammed in 2005, provoking world-wide riots.
Headley, who changed his name from Daood Gilani three years ago (perhaps to make it easier to “pass” as an ordinary American), was in cahoots with an al Qaeda commander and another terrorist group in Pakistan, and was arrested when he attempted to fly there in early October. Rana was arrested two weeks later. Both were charged with conspiring to provide material support for the attacks, and Headley was accused of planning to participate. Bill Roggio provides the details here.
This story is unusually interesting, because these guys were using the United States as a base from which to stage attacks elsewhere. It’s a man-bites-dog story, the reverse of the usual one, in which foreign terrorists come to America to attack us. Rana and Headley weren’t driven by hatred of America, nor by American foreign policy; they were avenging what they took to be slurs on The Prophet.
In other words, the motivation was religious. I don’t think anyone could say, as some are saying today about Fort Hood, that “it’s not about Islam.” This plot to murder and maim Danish journalists and workers had everything to do with Islam. One could well imagine the terrorists opening fire in Copenhagen and chanting “Allahu Akbar.”
I’m all for waiting until all the evidence is in from Texas before reaching any conclusions, but that should apply to everyone. Notably to the FBI, which seems to have developed a conditioned reflex that requires the Bureau to announce, within seconds of any act of murder, “there is no evidence of terrorism.” Which, in this case, is ridiculous, since it was precisely that.
All of which brings us back to one of the nastiest problems we face: the indoctrination of Americans in this country. If you look beneath the surface of these plots and murders, you will often find that the actual or would-be killers have attended radical mosques. They don’t come to jihad by sitting quietly at home and reading the Koran. They hear sermons, they are guided in the paths of terror, and they choose to become terrorists. And in this country, those radical sermons and that incitement is traditionally treated as “protected speech.” It’s protected by the First Amendment, and its guarantee of freedom of religion.
How are we supposed to deal with that? On the one hand, we can’t permit such indoctrination to go unchecked. On the other, it’s un-American to start censoring sermons and religious texts.
It’s a mess. But we’d better get at it.
Faster, Please.
UPDATE: As I suspected, Hasan’s mosque has a dark side. As Stephen Schwartz explains here, in a very important article.
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93 Comments
1. Winston:Political Correctness has killed people and it killed a dozen innocent troops again. It will kill more people until the society as a whole man up to this menace and stop it. Political correctness is dangerous. Of course, Islamists are using western PC culture to kill westerners. It’s a massacre. We say in Persian language: “They’ll use cotton to behead you” (Sareht ro ba panbeh miborand). Now the cotton amongst you is the PC culture. Horrific!
Nov 6, 2009 - 11:24 pm 2. a Duoist:One way to “get at it” would be to require that before any ‘holy man’ of any religion can collect financial donations he must first acquire a Master’s Degree in Comparative Religions from an accredited secular university. No violation of speech rights are involved by such a requirement.
Another way to “get at it” would be to devise curriculums that teach all children the top ten creationist theories of the past four thousand years, and also the top four evolutionary theories of the past one hundred years.
Another way to “get at it” is to require all ‘holy men’ to provide independent, professional psychiatric analysis of their personalities (especially to discover sadism, self-loathing, and dominance) before they conduct a bris, issue a fatwa, or make any call for “sacrifice.”
But the very best thing to “get at it” is to teach and inculcate among both the devout believer and the atheist is a profound respect for human fallibility, pluralism, and especially for open inquiry.
Nov 6, 2009 - 11:57 pm 3. Larry in Tel Aviv:faster please!
In dhimmi Obama’s America, forget it. You are going the way of Europe, you are Europe, sinking into denial, wishful thinking, Politically Correct stupidity and appeasement. One sees this at every level of American society, political, media and civil society – the USS clueless. Your captain at the helm is a dhimmi-supreme who even the French president mocks! It’s only going to get worse.
Nov 7, 2009 - 1:28 am 4. Robert:This war on terror threatens our way of life more than Soviet Communism ever could. Whereas Communism evaded religiosity, radical Islam pervades.
Judeo-Christian Democracy — the world over — must now fight to defend our constitutional frameworks in order to prevent the encroachment of legal protection awarded to Islamic radicalism.
America can win this fight. But the battle is made tougher by a cancer within its ranks. Just as in Iraq and Afghanistan, this disease must be eradicated before it overtakes the land.
Nov 7, 2009 - 1:31 am 5. Chaplain describes ‘total chaos’ after Texas Fort Hood Army Base shootings, perpetrated by Major Nidal Malik Hasan, 39, a US-born Muslim and army psychiatrist. | eChurchWebsites Christian Blog covering the news, politics, media, law, religion,:[...] It’s the (Religious) Ideology, Stupid [...]
Nov 7, 2009 - 1:51 am 6. kochevnik:Only fair solution is to ban all religion and tax the churches. The Vatican alone holds 60% of the world’s gold. That would be enough to restore all world economies and if the ill-gotten gains of the Rothschilds were seized, it would amount in the millions for every person on Earth. Moreover all taxes would be eliminated, and the cause of all these wars, Catholicism, would be eliminated
Nov 7, 2009 - 2:09 am 7. ExaPat:“And in this country, those radical sermons and that incitement is traditionally treated as “protected speech.” It’s protected by the First Amendment, and its guarantee of freedom of religion.”
Unfortunately that is true. Yet if we confront them it’s called “hate speech”. Orwell is getting more prescient year by year. How many wake-up calls do we need before we as a nation are put to sleep?
Nov 7, 2009 - 2:49 am 8. Francis W. Porretto:Time was, the Fort Hood atrocity, coupled to all that’s preceded it, here and abroad, would have been enough to cause the compulsory internment of all Muslims within the borders of the United States, just as we interned the West Coast Japanese when we entered World War II. But we knew who we were back then. I don’t think we know any more.
Nov 7, 2009 - 4:03 am 9. US Authorities Scared to Label Recent Episodes as ‘Islamic Terrorism’ « Palmetto Conservative:[...] Recent Episodes as ‘Islamic Terrorism’ By palmettoconservative Michael Ladeen of Pajamas Media discusses the sad state of affairs in the US in that even though the Chicago Terror Plot and Fort [...]
Nov 7, 2009 - 4:45 am 10. vivo:The Fort Hood rampage appears to have been a personal vendetta and not a terrorist attack directed by jihadists, unless the evidence proves it otherwise. The latest information that I read points to a deranged man who hated people around him and thought he was treated unfairly, but not an enemy of the State. Being a Muslim looks incidental. He could have being Jewish, Catholic, Protestant or anything else. Again, until the evidence proves it otherwise.
You are innocent until proven guilty.
Nov 7, 2009 - 4:49 am 11. ked5:I was thinking about this yesterday. I’m glad the treasonous major wasn’t killed – he doesn’t deserve to be a martyr. Just as the islamic terrorist who shot up a bunch of Jewish women in Seattle doesn’t deserve to be glorified for his deeds. He’s been labeled throughout as a whack job. that he had psych problems is almost beside the point of the fact he also was shouting about allah akbar while he murdered a woman. both would be glorified by jihadi’s for their endeavours if called terrorists. by labeling them whack jobs, they loose credibility. Of course, that’s assuming muslim fanatics care about such pop psych crap. though of course the reality is, they WERE religiously motivated to murder anyone NOT muslim.
Then again, maybe it’s stockholm syndrome on the part of too many in positions to protect the US. I believe fully obummer will “stand with the muslims”. (though I’m beginning to believe they will not stand with him – which I’m sure he cannot even fathom.)
Nov 7, 2009 - 5:23 am 12. Infidel:The sooner we embrace the reality that Islam as a system is evil, the more progress we will make in constraining it. A moderate Muslim is not a faithful one according to their own teaching (Koran) and their own experts.
They will and do use our own laws against us to advance their cause. The recent “hate crimes” bill Zero signed will haunt us as the Jihad will define any criticism or resistance to Islamic creep toward dominance as a hate crime. Just watch.
Nov 7, 2009 - 5:41 am 13. Bilgeman:Mr. Ledeen:
“Notably to the FBI, which seems to have developed a conditioned reflex that requires the Bureau to announce, within seconds of any act of murder, “there is no evidence of terrorism.” Which, in this case, is ridiculous, since it was precisely that.”
If the Administration and the MSM insist on pushing this “it wasn’t a terrorist act” line, I can think of few things that would be more damaging to the military’s morale.
Those soldiers and their loved ones who survived at Fort Hood know good and damned well that it was a terrorist act of betrayal by presumably one of their own.
To then have their commander-in-chief’s civilian underlings and his political allies in the media tell them that it was not what it manifestly was would be to add insult to injury…and have them betrayed yet again.
Since this crime was committed on an Army post, against active members of the Army, and allegedly by a soldier, the FBI needs to have great big cup of STFU, and let the Army’s CID take the lead and issue the statements.
Nov 7, 2009 - 5:44 am 14. steve:This is the unchangeable reality.… We will have terrorist attacks and threats of terrorists attacks and inconvenient and humiliating security measures and the disruption of ordinary activities FOREVER, as long as Muslims are in the West in any significant numbers.… The unchangeable fact is that wherever there is a sizable Muslim community there will be a very large number of terror supporters and therefore—inevitably—actual terrorists as well.
This is our future, FOREVER, unless we stop Muslim immigration and initiate a steady out-migration of Muslims from the West until their remaining numbers are a small fraction of what they are now and there are no true believers among the ones that remain. Travelers from Muslim countries must be tightly restricted as well. Muslims must be essentially locked up inside the Muslim lands, with only carefully screened individuals allowed into the non-Muslim world.
The enemy are among us, in America, in Britain, in the West, and will remain so until we remove them from the West and indeed from the entire non-Muslim world. As extreme as this sounds, it is a no-brainer. There is no other solution. All other responses to this problem add up to meaningless hand-wringing. The hand-wringing will go on FOREVER, along with the terrorist attacks and the threat of terrorist attacks, until we take the ONLY STEPS that can actually and permanently end the threat.
Nov 7, 2009 - 5:48 am 15. BackwardsBoy:We have a problem when “protected speech” results in the deaths of scores of innocent Americans on a military base. At what point does freedom of religion stop and sedition start? Is Islam a religion or a political ideology disguised as a religion? How many other attacks of this type must we endure before we decide to shut down the foreign funded radical mosques that have as their goal the submission of America to Islam and the takeover of our government?
Nov 7, 2009 - 5:56 am 16. pelaut:Thank you, Michael!
Nov 7, 2009 - 6:11 am 17. genghis:For saying what can’t be said.
When the dickens will someone quote the “Rules for Warlords” (Koran) correctly and hold its adherents to account?
When America’s not around anymore?
After 9/11 Bush instigated a program of discreet monitoring fron a distance some mosques. This seemed eminently sensible considering the points mentioned in Ledeen’s article. But, of course, when the NY Times got wind of this program, they betrayed it, as is their habit. The liberal media appears eager to demonstrate their adherence to higher principles even at the cost of American lives. It is difficult to fight an enemy handcuffed, blindfolded, and beset by legions of attorneys. How many dead Americans before we change the rules of the game?
Nov 7, 2009 - 6:14 am 18. David Thomson:“I’m all for waiting until all the evidence is in from Texas before reaching any conclusions”
We already have more than enough evidence to conclude that this murderer was motivated by Islamic extremism. That is beyond reasonable debate. Is Major Nidal Hasan mentally ill? That we don’t really know at this time. The more important question is whether he is part of a larger conspiracy. My initial guess is that this monster is a lone wolf. And this possibility should greatly concern us. The lone fanatic does not need to be a highly trained marksman. A relatively few hours of practice with a semi-automatic pistol is all that is required to commit a tremendous amount of grief. They don’t need any partners. I strongly suspect that Hasan never openly discussed his plans with another human being. His cultural milieu probably encourages him to perform such a dastardly deed on how own. Hasan is supposed to know what to do without anyone telling him.
Nov 7, 2009 - 6:22 am 19. Brian Richard Allen:Maybe if we stopped pretending this manifestation of evil is other than an envy-motivated, hatred-engined and murderous-rage-driven ideology and called it by its name, we might, before it destroys both our nation and our civilization, find it in ourselves to both put and end to our kowtowing to Islamanazism — and to eliminating it from the company of civilized men.
Nov 7, 2009 - 6:27 am 20. Terry:There is a direct causal relationship between Islamic teaching & acts of violence & terrorism. Mainstream Islam is an extremist ideology, period. Why we keep calling it a religion is beyond me, it is primarily a totalitarian political ideology & has been so since the time of Mohammed, that is, since it’s inception. We need to re-think our ideas about freedom of religion re: Islam.
Nov 7, 2009 - 6:39 am 21. Terry Gain:How are we supposed to deal with that? On the one hand, we can’t permit such indoctrination to go unchecked. On the other, it’s un-American to start censoring sermons and religious texts.
It’s a mess. But we’d better get at it.
Get a what? On the one hand we have a totalitarian movement posing as a religion and on the other hand a nation so firmly in the grip of political correctness its leaders and opinion makers are unwilling to concede that a terrorist attack by a Muslim is a case of Islamic terrorism.
Let’s start with the idea that civilization requires freedom of speech and conscience and that any religion that does not allow freedom of speech and conscience is not a legitimate religion.
Nov 7, 2009 - 7:00 am 22. Thomas_L.....:Of course, it’s about Islam but what do we do about it? Michael, would you say that it would be in the interest of the Islamists to trigger a spirit of reprisal against muslims in the American public? Isn’t that why President Bush always played down the religious aspect of these attacks? Surely, not because he believed Islam is actually a religion of peace.
Nov 7, 2009 - 7:32 am 23. Knotacommie:The author has it right. ISLAM IS THE PROBLEM. Always has been violent, even back to its 7th century founding. Dont forget how Islam swept across Northern Africa, into Spain, before Charles the Hammer Martel stopped the moslem hordes at Tours in 732AD and how the pope asked Martels son Charlemange to form the Holy Roman Empire in the early 9th century as a counterbalance to Islam. Islam also started the crusades by attacking the Christain holy land, Islam caused the downfall of the Eastern Roman empire in 1453AD, Islam has been the problem in Kosovo and the Baltic for over 500 years. It was also a moslem who started ww1 by shooting the crown price of the Austria/hungarian empire. Islam supported the NAZIS in ww2. Islam attacked the Phillipines in 1946, right after the US granted the Phillipines independence and has been trying to overthrow the Catholic nation ever since then. In other words, The US and western civilization are not responsible for Islams excesses. Islam is, and needs to be dealt with accordingly.
Nov 7, 2009 - 7:51 am 24. mjs:When the assassin shouts Allahu Akbar as he mowing down innocents there is a clear presumption that this has everything to do with Islamic hate .
Nov 7, 2009 - 7:52 am 25. M. Report:Its the (religious) Ideology, Stupid.
Way back in the day, Playboy
was supposed to turn its
teen boy readers into sex
offenders; Someone pointed out
that a child’s basic personality
is pretty well set by the time
they learn to read, so Porn was
not going to affect anybody who
was not already deviant, and
looking for encouragement.
In the US, or the Saudi, raise up
a child in the way that he should go,
and expect the borderline nut-cases
to fall into self-justifying error;
Unfortunately, Saudi society creates
a wide, oil-rich borderland full of
nut-cases.
To claim that the Koran can do what
Nov 7, 2009 - 7:55 am 26. Cybergeezer:the Old Testament cannot, or even that
it is more powerful, and crosses some
threshold of encouragement of evil,
is to confuse the warrior and the weapon;
A Five-Seven is not a “Cop Killer”;
Its the shooter, stupid.
Yea; They are not calling suicide bombers in Israel terrorists anymore; I think they are using a term like “poor unfortunate, misunderstood, abused, oppressed, individual, that up until now, was a pillar in the community”.
Nov 7, 2009 - 8:05 am 27. Mr. Independant:Michael Ledeen,
It’s the not the Religion it’s the Ideology Stupid.
If Islam really were the route cause of terrorism, this country would be in a lot more danger than it already is. With 1.5 BILLION Muslims out there trying to kill us we would have constant attacks. But that just isn’t the case.
I could ask you if you’ve ever read the Koran or attended a Muslim prayer service but I’m pretty sure the answer would be no (correct me is I’m wrong). If that’s the case how can you possible come to the conclusion that you did in your article?
I have counter theory. The murders at Ford Hood and terrorism in general are perpetrated not by any particular religion but angry bigoted men.
Not that long ago a Christian terrorist organization was continuing a decades long reign of terror here in the US. This organization’s rap sheet included tens of thousand of assault, rapes, and murders. Do you know the name of this Christian terrorist organization? It’s the Ku Klux Klan.
Now I doubt that anyone can ague with a straight face that Christianity is inheatently evil (the way you appear to ague about Islam); it isn’t. So perhaps the motivation behind the KKK and Al-Qaeda isn’t religion but angry bigoted men.
Nov 7, 2009 - 8:15 am 28. Stephen in Afghanistan:You’d hate to say that we impose censorship, or even a strict monitorization of any religion, but what can we do? The savages all clearly come from one faith no matter what our PC, delusional media wants to tell us. I wish I had the answer. Better yet, I wish anyone had the answer.
First things first: tax all religions as you would tax any business. They are selling ideology.
Nov 7, 2009 - 8:20 am 29. bobby gibson:Do we need to ban those who follow Islamic teaching in our military? I sure would not want one to be guarding my back in a war.
Nov 7, 2009 - 8:20 am 30. Xcontra:How did this thug obtain the rank of major? Is there a quota for moslem officers?
What is the real religion of our president? I often get it confused. Do we know by how he acts, or by what he says?
If the CID military police can view it as terrorism, then that would be a start.
At least refrain from denying that the guy was shouting Allahu Akbar like all the other terrorists and jihad boys around the world. If they can admit that happened, then everyone will know it for what it was: jihad time from the Munich chapter of the Abu Nidal playbook.
Nov 7, 2009 - 8:21 am 31. Kerry:After terrorists in Iraq murdered some of their citizens, where was it, (Tibet, Nepal, Mongolia…?) that the locals struck back at the local terrorist incitement religion of Peace (sic.) branch using safety matches?
Nov 7, 2009 - 8:26 am 32. Pragmatist:Seems like the FBI are now run by the Three Monkeys See No ISLAM, Hear No ISLAM , Speak No ISLAM and whatever you do never EVER EVER SUSPECT any ISLAM
Nov 7, 2009 - 8:40 am 33. Thrasymachus:Oh how wonderful it is to have a Mohammedan in the White House.
We must take the view of Geert Wilders, that Islam is not a religion but a totalitarian political system.
Nov 7, 2009 - 8:45 am 34. Paul Gable:“How are we supposed to deal with that? On the one hand, we can’t permit such indoctrination to go unchecked. On the other, it’s un-American to start censoring sermons and religious texts.
It’s a mess. But we’d better get at it.”
We got at it almost three years ago, with “A Proactive Approach to Islam in America” at http://www.brushfires-of-freedom.com/proactiveislam.html Simple but not easy, and it takes moral courage and political will that we don’t see in the current crop of political ‘leaders’. But they’re out there; Americans get what’s going on far better than our elites recognize. This past week’s elections are going to open the path for a new crop. Faster, please.
Nov 7, 2009 - 9:03 am 35. Professor Guvinoff:Persia was conquered by the muslims shortly after the death of Mohammed. Some 14 centuries later, the most ambitious and talented Iranians have made their lives in the West, but the so called “Islamic Republic” (!) of Iran is one of the most determined agents of jihad. If we are not capable of recognizing this, we are the most foolish, (and the most juicy) target of the modern resurgence of jihad.
G.W. Bush is the leader who initiated a vigorous response to jihad, but battle fatigue already set in before the effort was conclusive. We need to remember that armies don’t win wars, nations win wars. The election of Obama was a surge of national cowardice. This is not an adequate response! Are we ready to climb out of our collective torpor?
Nov 7, 2009 - 9:04 am 36. David W. Lincoln:How were the 5th columnists dealt with during the Second World War? An application of objective truth is needed, so that we preserve the best of the past, and subject the light of truth & scrutiny to what has blighted human history since God invented dirt.
Is it asking so much to gauge Islam by this standard: Does it affirm the necessity of one standard for all for the redressing of man’s inhumanity to man.
Nov 7, 2009 - 9:35 am 37. DavidN:I think you’re right, but I also think there’s another element to this. When it’s said that “this happened because he was upset about being deployed overseas” the subtext is: “We shouldn’t be in Iraq or Afghanistan anyway. Look what happened because we are.” Eventually we’ll get to “If we just gave the Muslims what they want, they won’t attack us any more. All they want is peace.” And a small dose of world domination, of course, but the peacemongers here will never tell you that.
Nov 7, 2009 - 9:56 am 38. don:“Fort Hood shootings: FBI given gunman’s name six months ago
The US Army major who killed 13 people in a shooting spree at America’s biggest military base had come to the attention of the FBI six months earlier over possible links to extremist comments posted on the internet.”
Looks like after nine months of the Obama administration we’re back to the pre 9/11 kinder and gentler FBI. Maybe they were preoccupied with investigating overly aggressive “cowboy” CIA agents for violating the “laws of war?”
Nov 7, 2009 - 10:10 am 39. DT:Being cognizant of the fact that to limit freedom of religion, even at the fringes, is a cure even worse than the disease; we can take refuge in the well worn aphorism that sunshine is the best disinfectant. In that sense, this blog and many others represent our best hope.
Ideally we rely on the press for this function. In an age when press approaches lockstep obtuseness on this and similar issues, the whole edifice of a modern free society is undermined. The solution, of course, cannot be to use the power of government to rectify the press, as this would, in the long run, only further undermine our freedoms.
Ultimately we must continue to speak out in forums such as this, support the sensible organs of the press, and eschew the non-sensible ones. Efforts to limit freedom of the press on the internet and radio (and anywhere else) must be vigorously defended against.
Only in this way can the sun shine in, and do its disinfectant work.
Nov 7, 2009 - 10:22 am 40. Delia:Living in the dark ages is a psychological problem.
Nov 7, 2009 - 10:39 am 41. Delia:Actually, I take my last statement back because Amish people live in what some folks might consider ‘dark ages’ and yet they are very peaceful people.
Nov 7, 2009 - 10:45 am 42. blotto:vivo: first if it was a vendetta how come he randomly shot up unarmed soldiers? so wrong answer there sparky
next, your use of moral relativism does any kind of defense you are putting up of this jihadist murderer a disservice. no christians have not gone out blazing unarmed soldiers before so your comment does not work
further, how come being muslim is just incidental? were the 9-11 murderers also being muslim just incidental? again your comment does not work
lastly,how was he deranged? he was about to be deployed and had to pass a medical exam so once again your comment does not work.
look, vivo, i understand you get paid to post here and get your info from kos and cap, but really come here with solid comments to defend the indefensible or don’t come here. your feeble attempts to excuse this Islamic jihadist murderer were pathetic.
Nov 7, 2009 - 10:52 am 43. shiraz:Thanks Dr. Ledeen!
This is one my favorite subjects of discussion. Amil Imani one of the famed Iranian freedom fighting patriots has an awesome web log on Islam and the way it is viewed and spinned by the political correctness crowds.
This is one of his articles on the subject that is as straight forward and honest as you can get making it an interesting read:
http://www.amilimani.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=80&Itemid=2
Of course all of his articles can be accessed at: http://www.amilimani.com
Nov 7, 2009 - 10:58 am 44. BettyBlue:Uh, Comrad K., how would banning religion, and outlawing churches, do anything to stop Islam? I mean, I know being a socialist and all, you’re all agog at getting to live off the fruits of other peoples’ labors, and you think if the eeeeevil capitalists would just share their wealth there would be rainbows and lollipops, and little pink unicorns farting cotton candy—but Marxism doesn’t work. Ever studied the history of Russia? Can you say, “Gulag”? (I knew you could!)
Interesting, by the way, that you want the churches to give up their alleged wealth, but say nothing about Islamist oil ticks giving up theirs. Some religions are more equal than others, da, Komerad?
Nov 7, 2009 - 11:16 am 45. Ding:So, Hasan had a screw loose. Did his religious mentors notice anything amiss as he was attending near-daily services? Were they like, “Yes my brother, you are in the right place to do a great service for Allah,” or like “Heal thyself, bro. You got some serious issues.” Was he a nutty suicide bomber set on remote control or just a nut?
Has his masque come out with a statement? Have we seen the face of his Imam or a collection of that mans writings?
Think things are bad now? Wait till Islam gets its divinely appointed Imam of the Age. It takes just one super-kook to get faithful riled up, in any religion.
Nov 7, 2009 - 11:16 am 46. Ellen K:Discrimination has gotten a bad rap. People with discriminating taste can tell a good wine from a bad one. Discrimination keeps us from grabbing toadstools after a rainstorm to make soup for the family. In short, it is about self=preservation.
Right now, politically correct attitudes have allowed people to excuse heinous behavior under the guise of “religious thought”. While fanatics of all religious stripes have been headline fodder, never has one group so invited criticism as the Wahabist Islamists that inhabit all areas of our nation and which move among us, unseen and undetected. In every case we get the same back story-educated, religious, polite-and in every case they would have or did willingly commit acts to kill multitudes under the banner of Islam. A shootout in Detroit, a conspiracy between Colorado and New York, a conspiracy to kill Danish writers, a lone gunman whose increasing dissent into radical Islam was sending out signals of potential danger but upon which the military could not act due to the PC blindness imposed upon them.
It doesn’t help that we have a President who would rather give shout outs than address a very serious terrorist act on a large military installation. He’s a traitor. How can anyone trust this man. His words were that we should “wait until the facts are in.” Did he say this when the professor was arrested? No, he jumped right in there with accusations of racism. So it appears he’s only interested in politic expediency and in power. We should wonder whose suggestions he’s listening to.
Nov 7, 2009 - 11:52 am 47. Alireza:I think we should also add the similar radical who ended up killing Prime Minister of Israel. Right? So maybe there is also a fear of being killed by a Jew in Israel that prevents any prime minister to make a deal? These sick people are EVERYWHERE and they all think they are the chosen one, so they go after anyone who is not the chosen.
This fundamentalism favors no particular religion, from a Christian killing a doctor who performs abortion, all the way to Jewish entities who drool over such actions as well. And possibly soon the rightwing white groups in U.S. will be sent to AQ classes to get training!!!!!????? Especially now when they announce a tea party gathering only few people show up.
However, in this case, based on what I heard on NPR, this guy was loaded with tons of actual stories from soldiers coming to him because of his job and telling him about horror of war in Iraq and Afghanistan. It is good news that he is alive and soon he will be able to shed light on his deadly deeds. Sadly, in many of these cases the killer ends up killed, which I think does not allow comprehensive analysis of such people in terms of thinking and so many other variables in their lives. Knowing such valuable information will help to prevent future cases.
Nov 7, 2009 - 12:20 pm 48. David Thomson:“I’m all for waiting until all the evidence is in from Texas before reaching any conclusions”
We already have more than enough evidence to conclude that this murderer was motivated by Islamic extremism. That is beyond reasonable debate. Is Major Nidal Hasan mentally ill? That we don’t really know at this time. The more important question is whether he is part of a larger conspiracy. My initial guess is that this monster is a lone wolf. And this possibility should greatly concern us. The lone fanatic does not need to be a highly trained marksman. A relatively few hours of practice with a semi-automatic pistol is all that is required to commit a tremendous amount of grief. They don’t need any partners. I strongly suspect that Hasan never openly discussed his plans with another human being. His cultural milieu probably encourages him to perform such a dastardly deed on his own. Hasan is supposed to know what to do without anyone telling him.
Nov 7, 2009 - 12:58 pm 49. Marc Malone:#7 vivo – Sorry, but this is compleltely about Islam, not just incidental. The guy was in the military, because he thought it okay to lie to the Infidel.
He got them to pay for his education, then tried to get out of his contract to serve as an officer.
He then, in a gross breach of ethics tried to proselytize his patients. This is a form of jihad, as espoused in the Quran. He got bad reviews, and blamed the Infidels, as he could see nothing wrong with this.
Now, he is scheduled to go to the front. Can’t do that. Can’t kill other Muslims. He’s a psychiatrist. I doubt he’d be in the front lines. So, he decided to martyr himself. He gave away his possessions, knowing he was to die. More jihad.
All this has been completely in accord with the teachings of Cursed Mohammed. It’s the religious iedology, stupid!
Nov 7, 2009 - 1:11 pm 50. Parabellum:…Being a Muslim looks incidental.
Vivo, what planet are you from? This was an act of jihad, stop trying to pretend it’s not.
Nov 7, 2009 - 2:20 pm 51. J. D. Lindskog:From a conversation with an elderly Brit.
“You don’t have to go to war. War will come to you.
You may refuse to recognize its arrival until the war is on your door step”.
I believe he spoke with some hard earned credibility.
Nov 7, 2009 - 2:21 pm 52. Bohemond:“The Fort Hood rampage appears to have been a personal vendetta and not a terrorist attack directed by jihadists,”
Right. Because yelling “Allahu Akbar!” has nothing to do with jihad….
Grasping at straws, there, vivo. Sorry, pal, you’re too late: we’re paying attention to the religion behind the curtain.
Nov 7, 2009 - 2:24 pm 53. Bookworm Room » Islam had everything to do with Fort Hood:[...] [...]
Nov 7, 2009 - 2:47 pm 54. Islam had everything to do with Fort Hood | Right Wing News:[...] to explain why it happened – and the abundant evidence that it was a jihad attack is ignored." Michael Ledeen: "I’m all for waiting until all the evidence is in from Texas before reaching any conclusions, [...]
Nov 7, 2009 - 2:50 pm 55. Michael Ledeen:See the Update on his mosque.
Nov 7, 2009 - 2:58 pm 56. macko:independent
Tens of thousands of rapes and murders by the KKK?
Let’s try to stick to the facts
Nov 7, 2009 - 3:25 pm 57. Silence Do Good:Here are 2 quotes from Sir Winston:
“When the situation was manageable, it was neglected. And now that it is thoroughly out of hand, we apply too late the remedies which then might have affected a cure. There is nothing new in this story. It is as old as the Sibylline books. It falls into that long dismal catalogue of the fruitlessness of experience and the confirmed unteachability of mankind.
Want of foresight, unwillingness to act when action would be simple and effective, lack of clear thinking, confusion of counsel, until the emergency comes, until self-preservation strikes its jarring gong. These are the features which constitute the endless repetition of history.” May 2, 1936 – House of Commons – Sir Winston Churchill
“No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science, the science against which it had vainly struggled, the civilization of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilization of ancient Rome.”
Nov 7, 2009 - 3:33 pm 58. seanmahair:Hence why people need to be handgun trained and self-defense ready. The first Allah Akbar I hear will be shortly followed by a loud bang and hopefully the last breath of the jihadist.
Someone once asked me if I could really kill someone. If it’s a choice between them and me or between them and people I love or them and my country, there is not even a question.
Right between the eyes, if possible.
But folks like vivo don’t have to worry. I wouldn’t defend them, as I know how much they hate guns and I wouldn’t want to offend. They’ll just have to talk their way out of the situation. Should be interesting.
Nov 7, 2009 - 4:06 pm 59. Ding:Just read that he went to the Dar al-Hijrah mosque at the same time as two of the 9/11 nutjobs.
can that be true!
What the . . .!
Nov 7, 2009 - 4:41 pm 60. ehunter:So after Islam has been “hijacked” by “radicals” for the umpteenth time..isnt it time to ask..just why is Islam so hijackable?
Nov 7, 2009 - 5:30 pm 61. Mike2:10. vivo:
Wait until the Muslims set off a nuclear or chemical attack in one of our cities. Then maybe even you will get it. They hate us and to them we are subhuman unbelievers.
Nov 7, 2009 - 5:37 pm 62. soupcon:The rush to absolve the obvious suspects is for CYA purposes only.All the FBI does is instill cynicism and contempt with those who are smarter than they at connecting dots, but who don’t have the law enforcement responsibilities to actually make a difference.Heads should roll.The FBI shouldn’t be suprised at Mr Hassan’s actions;they profiled him! So for them to announce this wasn’t a terror strike is the agency protecting itself.Will the DoD make some senior people pay a harsh price,or will they look the other way at their own security lapses and shortcomings?
Nov 7, 2009 - 5:45 pm 63. myth buster:Was he deranged? I don’t care. It doesn’t matter whether or not he was mentally ill. He was sane enough to know that this was evil, and he went ahead and made himself an enemy of the Republic anyway. He deserves to be executed by a Pershing style firing squad, on live TV.
Nov 7, 2009 - 7:10 pm 64. Distraught:It’s a serious problem. Their refusal to compromise and even not condemn, devoutly, forever prohibits their full entry into society. Do they not know every group enters at the bottom, and is only begun to be accepted after showing signs of assimilation? This group chooses to stay mum and in doors while so many in their name pounce over the world, and so, will not yet feel comfortable walking with us, which they should, cause this is not the tyrannical homeland of their un-compromising ideology whose link is so encompassing of their identity that they can not yet see themselves without any part of it… maybe?
Nov 7, 2009 - 7:58 pm 65. Anonymous:It’s the radical islam, stupid!
Nov 7, 2009 - 8:23 pm 66. Ran:“But we’d better get at it.” We, who?
It’s up to America’s loyalists in the Muslim population to do their parts on a number of levels: Identify nascent jihadis, call-out and fire radical preachers, teach the Constitution to their kids, refuse Saudi aid if it come with “strings”, examine the literature and classroom lessons given to their kids – in short, do all the things any freedom loving American would do. America’s Muslims must take a proactive, constructive stance, and they must do so to the point of control over the hard-liners.
There’s this human failing that buys the most hard-line position as the “more” authentic one. It’s prevalent in religion even more than politics. Muslims, too, have to see it for what it is – a power grab, not a path to G-d. It took the Catholic Church centuries to see that their Protestant brothers had a point – but the Church has evolved significantly without loosing a shred of authenticity.
Surely Islam is up to the challenge?
Nov 7, 2009 - 8:41 pm 67. Terry Gain:@ 25 M Report
To claim that the Koran can do what
the Old Testament cannot, or even that
it is more powerful, and crosses some
threshold of encouragement of evil,
is to confuse the warrior and the weapon;
A Five-Seven is not a “Cop Killer”;
Its the shooter, stupid.
I wouldn’t call anyone stupid if I were you. Have you never heard of the New Testament?
I suggest you compare the lives of Jesus and Mohammed. You might then have a clue.
Nov 7, 2009 - 8:42 pm 68. Pragmatist:@10 VIVO says ‘The Fort Hood rampage appears to have been a personal vendetta and not a terrorist attack directed by jihadists, unless the evidence proves it otherwise” But he shouted ‘Allahu Akbar’ as he shot, he was a DEVOUT Mohammedan , he gave away Korans just before he did it, he attended te SAME Mosque as three of the 9/11 Terrorist SCUM at the same time they did. But the Mohammedan DECEIVERS and their useful idiots in the MSM and the Islamophile PC MC left wing moonbats like VIVO want you to believe that that means ‘God is Great’ however the literal translation of ‘Allahu Akbar” is ‘MY God is the GREATEST’ which is a whole new ball game.
Although you will not find Mohammedans, Islamophile apologists or the totally IGNORANT MSM telling you this. Why because it is a pertinent reminder that:-
1) Islam is constantly violently CONFRONTATIONAL
2) Islam is in violent COMPETITION with other religions for supremacy.
3) Islam comes from a POLYTHEISTIC base.
All of which they the Mohammedans really dont want you to know because they want to deceive you and lull you in to a false sense of security by making you think that ALL religions are the same. After all dont they also LIE and tell you their ALLAH is the same as your God ?? Well if so why is Allah the GREATEST?????
Nov 7, 2009 - 8:44 pm 69. PAthena:The MSM and their useful idiots the Left Wing PC MC Moonbats are to stupid to discover this of course or if they do know will desperately try to pretend they dont.
(1) How could Major Hasan have been a psychiatrist?
Nov 7, 2009 - 10:05 pm 70. kochevnik:(2) How could the President of the United States, Barack Obama, have been so callous about the massacre at Fort Hood? He was quite jovial at the rush broadcast called to make comments about it, greeting with good cheer the people from the Department of Interior and the conference of American Indian leaders they had organized.
67@Terry Gain:
>I suggest you compare the lives of Jesus and
>Mohammed. You might then have a clue.
You should study history, they you’ll get a clue. There’s no proof a man named Jesus existed at that time. Rather he is an amalgamation of numerous, sundry thinkers and spokespeople of the time.
Nov 8, 2009 - 4:54 am 71. seller:Some would suggest that the practice of Islam be labeled as a hate crime.
Nov 8, 2009 - 5:23 am 72. vivo:42. blotto:
49. Marc Malone:
50. Parabellum:
52. Bohemond:
58. seanmahair:
61. Mike2:
68. Pragmatist:
Arguing about speculations won’t get you anywhere.
I hope none of you are lawyers or judges (seekers of truth).
I wrote “. . . unless the evidence proves it otherwise.”. What’s not to understand here?
Nov 8, 2009 - 7:47 am 73. ETAB:Islam is less a religion than it is a socioeconomic and political ideology. Importantly, this merger of religion and non-religious perspectives means that it is ideologically closed, its axioms frozen as dogma. It has no capacity, in itself, to reform.
As a political ideology, anyone who questions this agenda is a traitor.
Furthermore, as a socioeconomic and political ideology, Islam is a 7th c. mindset. It emerged within a tribal environment, where its adherents view all human beings as members of a tribe. The Islamic tribe is the only acceptable one; all others are to be killed or enslaved.
“Qur’an 98:6—Verily, those who disbelieve (in the religion of Islam, the Qur’an and Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him)) from among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) and Al-Mushrikun will abide in the Fire of Hell. They are the worst of creatures.
Qur’an 9:29—Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the Religion of Truth, from among the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.”
This is a militant tribal ideology. Contrast it with the Christian ideology of ‘Love Thy Neighbor’. Christianity emerged within a population whose economy and political era was based on interaction, trade, and collaboration.
And importantly, unlike Islam, Christianity separated church and state, or religion and politics. This enabled the latter to adapt and progress.
Islam bonds the two, religion and state, which means that the political structure cannot adapt and modernize. Islam is trapped within tribalism.
What is tribalism? It’s a mode of societal organization of a pre-industrial population, with numbers in the thousands (not millions). Its governance stresses stability, no change, no growth. Authority is vested therefore, in hereditary links, not individual merit. One tribe or clan will be, via hereditary authority, in charge. All others have no economic or political power.
Such a system ensures stability (no fights for power)but, because its focus is on continuity of behavior and your kin-based membership in the group, this society cannot change or adapt.
To change and adapt, you require dissent, deviation from the norm. You require a focus on the individual, not the kin group, and it is only the individual who is capable of free thought. Innovation. This is the domain of the middle class – which developed in the west and enabled the explosion of technology and science, both of which are totally absent in Islamic societies.
The tribalism of Islam is totally dysfunctional in a modern industrial world because it rejects individual freedom of thought, questions, dissent.
In a way, Islam is a parasitic growth on the West. It has no capacity, in itself, to ‘think’, to develop new technologies, modern medicine and science. All the technologies that the Islamic nations use, from oil extraction to cell phones to guns – come from the West.
And yet, its ideology, as tribal, insists that it conquer the West.
The West has to stand up to this agenda. Islam is not ‘just another religion’ or ‘ethnic group’. It is a parasitic growth that must be addressed as such.
Nov 8, 2009 - 8:50 am 74. WellEducatedCad:Odd that George Bush has visited Fort Hood to console families of the “Allahu Ackbar” shooter but AllahuObama hasn’t
Nov 8, 2009 - 9:45 pm 75. Paul -Indiana:The only positive image I get from this murder is the surprise that Hasan will experience when he becomes conscious again and finds out that he is not in Heaven being serviced by one of his 72 whores.
Nov 9, 2009 - 7:14 am 76. kochevnik:73@ETAB:
>Christian ideology of ‘Love Thy Neighbor’
Does that include the 18million you burned alive as heretics in WWII, aka the Second Inquisition?
Nov 9, 2009 - 12:48 pm 77. Mr. Independant:ETAB,
You mentioned in your last post that Islam “is less a religion than it is a socioeconomic and political ideology”. You also referred to Islam as “a militant tribal ideology”. Could you explain in more detail your reasoning behind those statements?
You also made several compressions of Islam to Christianity in which you implied that Christianity does not have a tribal mentality. Don’t all the Abrahamic faiths have that in common? After all, the Bible states “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me” (John 14:6). Most Christians (Catholics) are members of a church that is part of a theocracy (Vatican City). Even if you don’t concede the overall premise, aren’t at least Catholics apart of a ‘tribal mentality’?
You did make two very astute points though. “Religion in general has a very difficult time reforming itself. And to change and adapt, you require dissent, deviation from the norm.” Those statements are absolutely true. In the past 1600 years the Bible has changed only twice. Change and adaptation has always required dissent, like with democracy, unions, and the freedom of worship. One glaring mistake you did make though was to suggest that Christianity separated church and state. That’s completely false. Historically and today. Remember the majority of all Christians are Catholics and the Catholic Church is a theocracy.
Your assertion (correct me if I misunderstood your statement) that Christianity is focused on the individual and not the kin group I think is completely false. Your own quote “Love Thy Neighbor” (Mathew 19:19) contradicts you.
Nov 9, 2009 - 2:15 pm 78. JR Dogman:On the failure of Islamic countries to create new technologies; that is a direct result of those countries embracing extreme socialist and/or libertarian economic models.
Islam is not a parasitic grow on the West. What the West needs to stand up to, is bigotry.
77. Mr. Independant:
I *really* don’t agree with your basic views regarding Islam, but I like the way you post. Civility is the way to go, especially when discussing such a touchy subject as this.
No question, you bring a lot to these forums.
Nov 10, 2009 - 12:50 am 79. Jassem Othman:The Fort Hood terrorist attack, it was an act of terror associating with the Wahhabi Islam (Puritanical Islam/Fascist Islam). It was a vicious act of war. But, it is appalling that no action was taken against a man apparently known to praise suicide bombers and openly criticizes and damns US policies in addition to undermining of the US military!!!
However, not all Muslims are terrorists, but all terrorism comes from Muslims, and that radical mosques became the main source of terrorism where it became a recruitment centers for able-bodied young Muslim men who have become permanent wards of the state at the cost of their basic human dignity.
The Puritanical Islam or Fascist Islam in the West and around the world! The Saudi Arabia had made a strong pact with puritanical Wahhabi clerics whom despised America and the west, where the Saudi monarchy has maintained its tough commitment to propagating Wahhabism “Puritanical Islam/Fascist Islam” at home and abroad, providing the terrorists underground with a growing flood of eager recruits to death. Over one-third of Saudi Arabia’s public schools curriculum is devoted to Wahhabi teachings.
They still continue to propagate an ideology of hate toward the ‘unbeliever,’ which include Christians, Jews, Hindus, atheists and others, and also toward Shiites, Sufis, and even toward Sunni Muslims who do not follow Wahhabi doctrine or Puritanical Islam.
According to reliable sources, the Saudis have spent at least $ 87 billion to propagating Wahhabism (Puritanical Islam/Fascist Islam) abroad during the past two decades, and the scale of financing is believed to have increased-around the world-in the past two years as oil prices have skyrocketed. The bulk of this funding goes to the construction and operating expenses of radical mosques, madrassas, and other religious institutions that preach Wahhabism (Puritanical Islam). It also supports the training of imams; distribution of Wahhabi textbooks and other literature; and endowments to universities (in exchange for influence over the appointment of Islamic scholars).
The Saudis have financed the growth of thousands of Wahhabi mosques around the world, madrassas, and other religious institutions in Western countries that have fast-growing Muslim minorities during the past three decades. Wahhabi penetration is deepest in the social welfare states of Western Europe,
For example, the perpetrators of the 2005 London subway attacks were native-born Britons of Pakistani descent, recruited locally and trained in the use of explosives during visits to Pakistan. The Dutch Moroccan who murdered Dutch filmmaker Theodor Van Gogh in 2004 (for producing a film critical of Islam) was also a product of Wahhabi indoctrination. Theodor Van Gogh was the best friend to Ms. Ayaan Hirsi Ali.
Nevertheless, Fascist Islam penetration of US mainstream Islamic institutions is substantial. According to American sources, 2005 Freedom House Report examined over 200 books and other publications distributed in 15 prominent Saudi-funded American mosques. One such publication, bearing the imprint of the Saudi embassy and distributed by the King Fahd Mosque in Los Angeles, contained the following injunctions for Muslims living in America:
1- Be dissociated from the infidels, hate them for their religion, leave them, never rely on them for support, do not admire them, and always oppose them in every way according to Islamic law.
2- Whoever helps unbelievers against Muslims, regardless of what type of support he lends to them, he is an unbeliever himself.
3- Never greets the Christian or Jew first. Never congratulate the infidel on his holiday. Never befriend an infidel unless it is to convert him. Never imitate the infidel. Never work for an infidel. Do not wear a graduation gown because this imitates the infidel, “infidel is like you according to their claims”.
But the question! Why the US government did not enough condemn this vicious act of war?!
Jassem Othman, Syrian, Poland.
Nov 10, 2009 - 2:04 pm 80. shiraz:To Mr. Independent,
Nov 10, 2009 - 7:49 pm 81. Mr. Independant:In answer to your question on Islam please read through the web log: http://www.amilimani.com
or: http://www.derafsh-kaviyani.com
Read all that you have stomach for and get informed!!!
Shiraz,
Actually, I already read from that site when you posted a link to it in post #43. I noticed a curious similarity to the statements of supporters of the Christian terrorist organization the KKK. http://www.kkk.com/
Various terrorist organizations around the world have used religion to justify their acts of violence. That doesn’t illustrate a problem with religion but with the ideology of the terrorist.
And don’t take my word for it, research it for yourself. In this case, that should include the Bible and the Koran.
Nov 11, 2009 - 8:47 am 82. Mr. Independant:JR Dogman,
Thank you; you do as well.
Nov 11, 2009 - 8:49 am 83. shiraz:Mr. Independent,
Nov 11, 2009 - 10:23 am 84. Mr. Independant:In the case of Islam it is not these sporadic terror acts that are being done everyday in the name of Islam are because of some terrorist ideology of a bunch of people or organizations but just the opposite the terror acts are being orchestrated by the teachings of Islam itself. What will make it helpful to you is not only to read the views of all the people who are fighting against Islam to expose it, but read the HISTORY of Islam itself from its beginning and how it expanded, entrenched its web of brute influence around the lands it rose from. This will give you an objective understanding of this sociopolitical cult of terror and death. Islam is not a religion. Reading its history will confirm this to you.
To do this I suggest that you read the link: http://www.derafsh-kaviyani.com
Go to the upper left corner link and click on: “Articles in English”
You will see a wealth of research and studies by all scholars of the subject. If you go down the list you will be able to read many lessons on the history of Islam and Muhammad and his followers who had occupied lands with brute force of barbaric proportions.
Shiraz,
Your statement that terrorism is being orchestrated by the teachings of Islam is only your opinion. Just because you believe something doesn’t make it true. The Christian terrorist organization the KKK made the same claim about the Bible. That wasn’t true either. What might help you to understand these concepts is to actually read the Koran, instead of the opinion of others. So far all you’ve done to justify your position is to provide links to sites that discuss someone else’s opinion. Perhaps you should try actually reading the Koran before you decide to comment on the religion of Islam.
Additionally the history of humanity in general is very violent. The Koran was written during the Dark Ages. If your unfamiliar with history, that was a very violent time. Furthermore the history of Christianity was also filled with men who justified violence by their faith. Ask yourself what happened to all of the Native American people who were murdered by the English, French, Portuguese, and the Spanish? And I am not refereeing not to the introduction of diseases but war.
Finally there are many verses in the Bible that condone violence and not in self-defense. For example, Deuteronomy 20:10-17, 1Samuel 15:2-3, 2Kings 10:6-7, and Timothy 1:20 are just a few. The problem with terrorism is NOT religion, it’s the terrorists.
Nov 12, 2009 - 6:20 am 85. shiraz:Mr. Independent,
Nov 12, 2009 - 7:42 am 86. shiraz:Obviously you know nothing about Islam and are not willing about it either. It will defy your PC principles.
I can comfortably say that your view of Koran is your views and perceptions as well.
And yes I have read Koran numerous times with its inciting hateful messages and believe me my people are seeing its implementation every day of their lives. So please keep your PC appeasement of Islam to yourself and let us Iranian, and many other Moslem nations like Egyptian, Kurd, Turkish, Saudis, Lebanese, and many other under the rule of ignorance and barbaric of Islam fight their fight to expose this cult that it is. And no it is not only my view sir but the views of millions around the Moslem world under its subjugation.
As I suggested before read its history before you claim anything otherwise just leave us alone. Its history in the link I provided is not any person’s personal view but the works of historians and scholars which as it seems you never read or even willing to read and this shows your close minded manner in which you discuss. Well learning is not something that you yearn for specially if it is against your own set views or ideologies. Ideologues never learn anything new of course.
Appeasers and PC crowds are never fit for any constructive discussions!
This is my last response to your comment since I do not see any constructive result coming out. Not everybody wants or can learn!
One more thing Mr. Independent,
Nov 12, 2009 - 8:05 am 87. shiraz:I gave you the links to read about Islam and its history. It contains lessons in Koran and many verses and hadiths, etc. are included. I did this obviously since it is too long and big to write it in this blog. Also browsing the link will give you many more various information. If you like I can give you some verses from Koran that you believe is a religion and it is perhaps a peaceful religion in your PC minded views.
The fact is that YOU DID NOT READ KORAN and I DID. Million other oppressed moslems fighting to expose Islam did as well. Because of this you are not fit to make a claim on Islam in this discussion.
End of discussion.
Ah one more:
“The problem with terrorism is NOT religion, it’s the terrorists.”
This is your claim so if that is the case then what is the difference between a “Terrorist” and a “Killer”????
I tell you what it is!
A Terrorist does the act of terror and murder based on the ideology he or she follows. A killer however does the act based not on an ideology but on his or her life circumstances or mental conditions.
Therefore your argument that our today’s problems with terrorism is not the religion but the terrorists are TOTALLY BASELESS AND NOT VALID. Since today’s terrorists are doing the acts of terror based on the ideology of Islam and nothing else. During the communists reign in the 60’s, 70’s many acts of terror were done in South America, Germany, Poland, Africa not based on the “Terrorist” itself but based on the teaching of communism. Communism taught its followers to wage war and in actual terms: “ARMED STRUGGLE” against its enemies mainly the Western societies, capitalism, imperialism.
Mr. Independent think, read and research more before you make more baseless claims and dishonor others.
This is honestly my last comment on this subject.
Nov 12, 2009 - 8:28 am 88. Javelin:Okay
Nov 12, 2009 - 9:25 am 89. Javelin:we all know here he was a jihadist and the others pretending it was some new form of PTSD, which affects people who were never in combat or danger are in da Nile.
But Mr. Ledeen I thought after all these years of freeing Muslims and making them our little proteges, the Islamic community, especially here, would turn out such murderous deviants en masse?
Mr Independant,
Nov 12, 2009 - 9:32 am 90. Mr. Independant:the terrorist himself made those connections to his religion. SO if he chose to center himself and his deeds on his faith, than for us to ignore his motivation would be rank dishonesty.
Shiraz,
Well for someone who states repeatedly that you’re done talking about a certain subject, you seem to have a lot of additional comments to make. Which is good? When someone takes the attitude that they know everything they’ll never learn anything.
Now on the substance of your last few posts:
First off my positions have all been based on history and current events. Now you claim to have read the Koran numerous times yet you never cite any specific Surah. Is that an oversight? Additionally you’ve based your positions only on the opinions others. It’s one thing to cite the research from a credible source to back up your opinions but you’re not even doing that. All you’ve posted so far are clips and links to someone else’s work. Has it occurred to you to cite a specific Surah to back up your opinions? You haven’t thus far. I suggest you do that. And try not to mimic ETAB by quoting an article from the Wikipedia. If you do respond, include the manuscript and page number that you’re sourcing. Not doing so undermines your entire position and your credibility.
Continuing on the issue of your credibility I have friends that are from Iran and they NEVER refer to themselves as Iranian, they ALWAYS refer to themselves as Persian or of Persian descent. Are you really from Iran? Additionally Turkey is a secular state. If you ever visit that country (and I have) you’ll see there are just as many unobservant Muslims and observant ones. So your assertion that Turkey is “under the rule of ignorance and barbaric of Islam” is simply not true. You also claimed that the link you provided in a previous link contains versus from the Koran. There is no such thing. Scriptures in the Koran are called Surah.
Also I am familiar with history. Historical references have been the basis for my counter arguments. Hence my reference to terrorist organizations like the KKK and the IRA. Versus like: Deuteronomy 20:10-17, 1Samuel 15:2-3, 2Kings 10:6-7, and 1 Timothy 1:18-20 from the NAS Bible were used by the KKK to justify their terrorism in the same manner as Al-Qaeda uses the Koran. That doesn’t make either religion evil. A more recent history has shown me that when posters on this cite make personal attacks, it’s usually because their positions have been disproven. Additionally when someone repeatedly states that “I know and you don’t” while neglecting to provide evidence to refute another post, it’s usually because they can’t find any. Why haven’t you provide references like the ones above?
Finally you commented in your last post that “A Terrorist does the act of terror and murder based on the ideology he or she follows “. I agree. In fact that sounds like something I’ve written. The quote I’m referring to was an answer to ETAB on what is terrorism. I replied with “Terrorism is the use of violence (or threat of violence) against non-combatants to achieve political goals”. However you also stated that “today’s terrorists are doing the acts of terror based on the ideology of Islam and nothing else” and that’s false. Below are two links one from a ‘right wing’ source and the other from a ‘left wing’ source.
(http://www.quadrant.org.au/blogs/muehlenberg/2008/12/mumbai-and-islamic-terrorism)
(http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7772771.stm)
They discuss that since 9/11/09 there have been over 12,000 acts of islamic-terrorism committed around the world and that in 2008 alone there were over 5,000 acts of narco-terrorism committed in just Mexico. Just one country in one year. Over the past 40 years the terror group the FARC has been attributed with over 300,000 murders. That doesn’t even include other acts of terrorism. So unfortunately your positions are disproven not just by history but by current events.
Anyone can claim their beliefs are justified by GOD. Those same people can even site religious texts to try and claim they have proof that GOD supports their acts of violence. That DOSEN’T make it true. It’s false for the KKK, the IRA, and Al-Qaeda. The problem with terrorism is NOT religion, it’s the terrorists.
Nov 12, 2009 - 11:36 am 91. shiraz:The problem with terrorism is the teaching and ideology it bases its acts on which indoctrinates itself onto its subjects. From Communism to Islamism. Today Islamism is the main source of these teaching and this does not mean is the only one. Hey we have our own communists here in the US who are now raising their voice every day to become more violent. But who can deny that Islam is the world’s major source of terrorism??? We are seeing it today in my land Iran. You are not there you don’t know how and how many of our brave people are being executed every day in the hundreds while the killers shout Islam will rule once again!!! Where are you coming from planet Mars???
Did you ever know that since the establishment of the Islamic Republic 30 years ago with the help of Carter and his ignorant cohorts the ISLAMIC regime has executed HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS YES HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of freedom fighting Iranian people??? You mention FARC murdering 300,000 people in the last 40 years and yet you DO NOT KNOW that Islamic regime has EXECUTED BARBARIC STYLE more than twice that number IN ONE COUNTRY ALONE in 30 years!!!!
I say it with more confidence again and again the problem with ISLAMIC TERRORISM is Islam itself and the violent inciting teachings it indoctrinates onto its terrorist subjects!!!
Mr. Independent study and learn before you come to your conclusion!
Nov 13, 2009 - 9:58 am 92. Mr. Independant:shiraz,
Well the first line of your last post is correct. That’s actually the point that I’ve been making all along. I noticed that you have finally come to the conclusion that terrorism is not confined to islamic-terrorism. Now even though you didn’t cite any proof to back up your claims about “HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS YES HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS” of executions in Iran, I believe you. Your comment actually proves my point; angry bigoted men are the problem, not Islam. Ask yourself if you had an army of freedom fighting people and you had a choice to kill the brutal oppressors of Iran or every Muslim civilian of Iran, what would you choose?
Nov 13, 2009 - 7:02 pm 93. Mr. Independant:Javelin,
David Koresh mad the same claims about Christianity. Should we have believed him as well?
Nov 13, 2009 - 8:05 pm