Chesler Chronicles

February 11th, 2008 2:18 am

The Battle for America Has Just Begun. A Conversation with Bat Ye’or.

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The eminent scholar, Bat Ye’or, is tiny in height only; she is a towering intellect and a fierce judge of both human character and history. Her work predicted and documented the Islamification of Europe. We both agree that the battle for America has only begun–although I believe that it is well underway.

Here we are, two friends, ladies of a certain age, sitting in the most pleasant of surroundings , (a private club, tres ancien regime), and conversing most seriously, not about children and grandchildren, not about the ballet or the opera, (under other circumstances, a conversation we might certainly like to have), but given our times, and our views, a luxury we cannot afford. Thus, we talk about War and Peace and the Clash of Civilizations. What could be more enjoyable and yet more pathetic? Yes, pathetic. We two should be having this conversation in a government office and our views should be leading to co-ordinated government actions. More’s the pity that this is not the case.

But please: Come and join us.

Phyllis: What do you see is happening at this moment?

Bat Ye’or: The West is engaged in a very careful exercise of self-censorship. We are trying not to offend Muslim sensibilities. Western governments want to impose respect for Muslim sensibilities in the hope that this will avoid jihad. They are ready to suppress the truth.

Phyllis: What do you think of an Obama Presidency?

Bat Ye’or: Obama and his supporters do not seem to understand that Europe has failed. Today, European dissidents, including Muslim and ex-Muslim dissidents are forming movements against the European Union whose policies have led to the Islamification of Europe. Europe is suffering from a huge Muslim immigration problem. The Muslim immigrants (with the exception of the above mentioned dissidents) do not want to integrate into a modern, tolerant state and they want to impose Sha’ria law on us all.

Phyllis: What does this remind you of?

Bat Ye’or: All these Western gestures of appeasement reminds me of the dhimmi regulations. These are a whole set of regulations whose purpose is to respect Muslim sensibilities. Therefore, Christians must conduct “quiet” services and dhimmis (infidels) must wear special clothing so as not to shock or offend Muslims with their too-fashionable or too-expensive clothing. Long ago, infidels had to dismount from their donkeys when a Muslim approached and a dhimmi could only pass a Muslim on the left (or impure) side, not on the right side.

I am not in favor of inciting anyone but really, where will this all end? And why this super-sensitivity only to Muslims? There is only one answer. Our intellectuals and politicians want to have a good relationship with the Muslim world. They think they will always have the freedoms that they currently enjoy. They do not understand that those freedoms are at risk.

Phyllis: Where does Israel fit into this picture?

Bat Ye’or: Europeans have imagined that the problem is only Israel. They were committed to allowing the Arabs to destroy Israel if that kept them, the Europeans, safe. But these Europeans do not seem to remember that Islam persecuted and then destroyed Christianity in Muslim lands. We see a repetition of this in Europe today.

Phyllis: Such politicians and intellectuals are suicidal, don’t you think?

Bat Ye’or: Absolutely. But they want so much to be loved that they are reaching out to their enemy. This is the politics of self-destruction. They are making concessions about their basic security and freedom

Phyllis: Some people are already discouraged, almost in advance, about the battle for America. What do you think?

Bat Ye’or: This battle is not yet lost. The handful of us who are working to alert others to the dangers specific to the 21st century are doing heroic work against all odds. We–you–have not failed. I believe that we are planting seeds. When America battled communism it had whole organizations committed to doing so. We–you–have nothing like that today in the war against Islamic terror.

Phyllis: I know that your work was initially attacked or “disappeared.” How much has this changed?

Bat Ye’or: My work has been well received in Italy by the most prominent Italian intellectuals. I am, however, conspicuously avoided in the UK by the media and in universities–although I did speak before Parliament two years ago. In France, everyone’s speech is less free than elsewhere. It is the most intellectually repressive society.

After I returned home, I read that French intellectuals, headed by Bernard Henri-Levy are organizing to support Aayan Hirsi Ali’s request for French citizenship. Have the French finally begun to wake up? Or does this say something about Sarkozy’s future politics and his potential interest in a high-profile symbol?

TO BE CONTINUED.

12 Comments

Nancy Kobrin, Ph.D.:

What a fantastic interview. You are both to be commended. Bat Ye’or hit the nail on the head in explaining a function of terror - that appeasement arises out of a wish to be loved, the sense of self-esteem is so poor. Islamization’s aggression masks shame and humiliation projected outwards. It resonates with those who crave to be loved and who feel unlovable.

This is so basic that it is off putting to most but the tides are turning.

Feb 11, 2008 - 8:06 am Bruce Cohen:

Thanks to Phyllis for being a voice of reason on these seminal issues of our time.

Feb 11, 2008 - 8:56 am vb:

I disagree on one small point. Many intellectuals do not want to be loved. They want to be worshipped. Love has to do with a reciprocal relationship between people who recognize one another as individuals. Far too many intellectuals seem incapable of this. They like to put people into groups that they can enlighten and save, thus winning eternal gratitude.

Feb 11, 2008 - 9:22 am Tom Grey:

The PC attack on the Truth is not doomed, unfortunately.

The Intellectual elites are lying to themselves, but they have been doing in huge numbers since: Roe vs. Wade.

Every cell in a woman’s body has her DNA — the fetus has different DNA. To deny the human fetus any human rights protection is to deny the rights of the innocent. The pro-abortion feminists must lie about this. And virtually all elites, like Ayn Rand, are smart enough to know how to lie themselves so that they believe the lie.

Rationalization.

America, Freedom, Democracy, Human Rights — must win in Iraq. Iraqi freedom must win in Iraq. That is the slo motion earthquake which will shake the foundations of anti-Human Rights radical Islam.

(Not even Europe has quite failed, yet, but it’s pretty wimpy.)

Feb 11, 2008 - 9:55 am George Jochnowitz:

It is true that Islam persecuted Christianity. This remains the case in Saudi Arabia. But today, the big motivating factor is anti-Zionism, the most powerful political force on earth. Europeans, in particular those who once had sympathy with the Marxist-Islamic alliance, are swept away by anti-Zionism and are willing to subordinate their own interests to this cause. In all parts of the world, we can find feminists and gay-rights activists who condemn Israel despite its history and policies and sympathize with Islamists despite the existence of honor murders.

Feb 11, 2008 - 10:02 am David Thomson:

“Bat Ye’or hit the nail on the head in explaining a function of terror…”

Bat Ye’or fails to mention something that is very important: the only way to save Western Civilzation is by supporting center-right political parties. The parties of the left are too politically correct to ever get their act together. My guess is that Bat Ye’or prefers left-wing political parties and hesitates to abandon her former allies.

Feb 11, 2008 - 1:51 pm HAROLD RUBIN:

Thanks for this lucid message. Can you ‘merchandise/market’ it out to the ‘masses’? It’s a darn good product. (Standing up to one’s fear of the truly fearful is hard to sell, huh?)
Who knows, somebody may be listening and get used to it little by little

Feb 11, 2008 - 2:56 pm Burt Keimach:

Some of what Bat Ye’or says is not well founded. For example, Europe is not doomed to some kind of horrendous Muslim takeover. Witness the idiot Archbishop of Canterbury and his inane attempt to concede to aspects of Sharia law for Britain. The reaction against him was across all political and social divides. Calls for his resignation are rife.
Also, France is not an intellectually repressive society. I know. I used to live there. Americans could do well to examine the concept of aggressive secularism favoured by the French system, and later used by Kemal Ataturk to found modern Turkey. Although America, unlike Britain, manages to happily separate Church and State, they need to go further to stop fundamentalists, evangelicals, and others of delusionary persuasions from trying to foist their hallucinations on the wider public.

Feb 12, 2008 - 2:49 am John R:

Note to Burt K: Your last comment demonstrates the unseriousness of your thinking. That you equate devout Christian Americans with the murderous Islamist radical is proof of your defect of thought. Just curious, suppose there were bands of murderous christians bombing indiscriminately across the globe. How quickly would church and government officals come out to denounce it and put a stop to it? So, what’s taking “moderate” muslims so long?

Feb 12, 2008 - 1:02 pm Louis Santacroce:

After reading this interview, I visited my local library to search for Bat Ye’or’s books. SURPRISE! The Mid-York Library System, which carries multiple copies of the pro-terrorism film, “Paradise Now,” as well as a number of books and DVD’s explaining the “benefits” of Islam and the “greatness” of Muhammad (piss be upon him), seems never to have heard of this author, or practically any other who tells the truth about the Islamization of Europe and its encroachment on America (although they DO have a single copy of Phyllis’s “The New Anti-Semitism”). Fortunately, at least in the case of Mid-York, this appears to have been a sin of omission; they have promised to order three of Bat Ye’or’s books. So, now there will be FOUR books that tell the truth about Islam on my library’s shelves, in the face of 30 or so volumes extolling the “virtues” of this religion and its founder. I wonder how long it will take the guy whose car sports the “Stop U.S. Aid to Israel” bumper sticker (and who seems to be in the library every day) to find and trash them!

Feb 12, 2008 - 5:25 pm George Jochnowitz:

Ayaan Hirsi Ali was a resident fellow at the American Enterprise Institute. Has she lost her job? She was still listed as a resident fellow there when last I googled her. Is there a problem about her staying in the United States? What is motivating her request for French citizenship?

Feb 12, 2008 - 7:15 pm Norman Simms:

Profound in so many ways, this interview, the two of you touching the terrible exposed nerve of the current situation at the centre of our world. How do we move from these words to meaningful action?

Feb 13, 2008 - 3:20 am