71 Comments

1. David Vieira Sr:

It is a well known fact that females among the Indians, in Brazil, are more dangerous than the men. They have proven it, over and over again, practicing acts of violence, which have been recorded on TV. The latest, a couple of months ago, was an attack that Kayapo womem lead against the director of a hydrelectric company, who was trying to explain to them the need of a dam to make electricity. They beat him up an nearly cut off his arm. If they had the means, they would easily do the same as these women in Irak.

Jul 28, 2008 - 1:35 pm 2. Patricia McRae:

When I taught my First Year Seminar on Why We Fight I required them to watch The Terrorist an Indian film by Santosh Sivan and inspired by the actions of an actual female Tamil Tiger. One can google this and look it up rather than watching it. But if you do that you will miss an amazing amount of subtlety between the young girl, the old man and his wife who raised her and the tensions she feels when she realizes life is growing in her. I’d like to see some specific data on female suicide bombers…difficult to obtain to be sure but their age, marital status, whether or not they had a family member die etc. I have felt all my life that the reason women were forbidden certain things had nothing to do with religion tho it might be cloaked in that but everything to do with the fact that violence by women is not a game for them. Having first read Lewiston Sharpe’s article,’STEEL AXES FOR STONE AGE AUSTRALIANS’and the effect of the distribution of improved steel axes to class segments who had not had an opportunity to obtain them before, I wonder if we are not missing a piece of these female suicide bombers reality: that this might be their last chance at an escape or statement. I realize that sounds terrible but what is the reality? Run to the West? We’ve not done so well there in helping them if they do or if they remain. They remain somewhere farther down on the agenda of ‘more important things’.

Jul 28, 2008 - 2:25 pm 3. Nancy Kobrin, Ph.D.:

How amazing cyberspace is that i have this opportunity to also add to the two comments and Phyllis’ outstanding piece. Besides the fact that it is so very special to be able to work with Phyllis, I am always astounded by the rapidity with which she works and articulates what is going on.

The numbers of Iraqi fsbs will begin to compete with the Tamil Tigers who are known to have had the most. When I was in Sri Lanka in rebel territory, the setting seemed so similar to Palestinian culture with its memorials and placards. The women of both are the most devalued. They internalize male hatred of the female as self-hatred. Yes blowing themselves up is a statement of sorts and a quest for a fragile tenuous identity but as Phyllis reminds us – these are cultures obsessed with death and out of control.

Having studied in Brazil and Portugal, the history of these cultures share similarities vis a vis gender issues where suicide terrorism flourishes and therefore, Latin America and esp. South America have not been on the radar screen for the recruitment and spread of fsbs. It will happen and we need to be proactive to interrupt it happening. Whenever bad behavior becomes normalized it slides toward death and the killing of the innocent.

Jul 28, 2008 - 3:54 pm 4. heather:

I think that by killing herself along with apostates/infidels, she must be in an elevated, extravagantly spiritual state, one in which she is beyond her material female ugliness, into the realm of Allah.

Really, it is surprising that more Muslim women have not been given the chance to embrace this splendid way to heaven. It must be that the male idiots in charge cannot believe women can reach for the stars, and so do not ask them to do so.

I read somewhere that women in Allah’s heaven take the form of great birds hanging from chandeliers around the throne of God. Sort of like trinkets on a charm bracelet I guess.

Jul 28, 2008 - 9:24 pm 5. Norman Simms:

Phyllis

What you say worries me now for two new reasons: first, I notice in the corridors and foyers of the university not the one or two Muslim women in full burkhas, covering them from head to foot, but dozens–sometimes it seems like a hudnred right downstairs from me. But they are chattering away, as you can tell from their very high-pitched voices, and don’t sound threatening at all. They also seem very young, so far as one can tell from the outside. But then, what happens if one of these young women students were to appear in my class or come into my office? After all, I don’t hide the fact that I am a Jew or a Zionist and an Israeli citizen, although I also don’t trumpet these facts abroad. Nevertheless, I think I would be afraid, or as they say around here “feel culturally unsafe.” That puts it mildly. My wife suggests that if such a student wanted to talk to me I should invite one of the female secretaries to come into the room and sit there during the interview. I know the laws in New Zealand about radicxal descrimination are not the same as in the USA, but does anyone out there have any suggestions?

Norman

Jul 28, 2008 - 11:04 pm 6. Society of Christians for the Restoration of Old Testament Morality:

I take issue with the following: “Like men, women are human beings and are therefore as close to the apes as to the angels. Thus, like men, women are as likely to nourish as to destroy.” That is clearly evolutionist propaganda. The correct way to say it would be that like men, women are fallen from grace after what happened in the Garden of Eden.

Jul 29, 2008 - 9:46 am 7. Philip:

Shoot first, ask questions later. Equal opportunity death is the best kind.

Jul 29, 2008 - 10:42 am 8. Pajamas Media » Damsels of Death: Female Suicide Killers Devastate Iraq:

[...] the entire story here [...]

Jul 29, 2008 - 1:45 pm 9. Azzurri:

“Women hide their explosive belts and bombs under their flowing black abayas–one more reason that such outerwear should be banned in the West.”

Banned? Sure….who cares about the constitution. You push this point later in your article as well. Should we ban back packs and wedding dresses as well? Absurd claim. What is your real reason for despising other cultures ‘outerwear?’

Your article was very good and read true and unbiased….except the above (banning abayas). I’m not saying that I’m not in agreement with you (if it were possible I’d love to never see a abaya…a burka…actually anything muslim ever again!), but implementing something this outlandish goes against what makes the west the west.

Jul 29, 2008 - 2:43 pm 10. tanstaafl:

What about the Palestinian members of Islamic Jihad, Al-Aqsa Brigade, Hezbollah and Hamas (al-Qaeda does this too), who exploit depressed, mentally ill, and mentally retarded women into strapping on an explosive belt and blowing themselves up?

Is there a dearth of men being sucked into the “dying is good” ethos of the homicidal maniacs ? So the sisters are being brought up to speed ?

Two Chechen women who carried out a suicide mission in Moscow were (as I recall) avenging the deaths of male relatives.

The most odious is recruitment of individuals incapable of making any kind of choice, i.e., the mentally retarded.

The best film I have ever seen for the dynamic of recruitment (including the guilt trip and the sense of shame imposed by trainers with refusing to become a suicide bomber inside that culture) is the Palestinian film Paradise Now.

Sickening are remarks from Palestinian or Yemeni women (e.g., the wife of the blind sheikh imprisoned in the US for the first, 1993 WTC bombing) that their best hope for their male children is that they grow up to conduct suicide missions. Can you imagine being raised in a family with such an ethos ? Can you imagine fixating on the glory that will be afforded you in another life ? Thus far, they haven’t (actively) included their daughters in that fond wish for their offspring.

But with the cartoon indoctrination and small suicide belts placed on 3 year old children, you could imagine that more and more girls will be coming on board for the glorious mission.

Jul 29, 2008 - 4:49 pm 11. fred:

I am in complete agreement with the idea of banning the burqa in the West. The garb itself is a violent assault upon women as women by a violent cult/ideology that we should have long ago declared NOT a religion. The fact that it can be used to hide bombs and assault weapons only adds to its sinister character.

It’s only a matter of time before it brings death and destruction home right into our warrens. And it will take horrific casualties here in our lands before people finally wake up, because we are very somnolent with respect to what this ideology intends to do to us.

Jul 29, 2008 - 9:33 pm 12. Azores:

Nancy Kobrin, Ph.D.,

Please tell me: what is the similarity between Portuguese and Brazilians, and Palestinians?
Female oppression perhaps…

Jul 30, 2008 - 3:40 am 13. ddc:

It has less to do with who is more compassionate that the other and more to do with the success of INDOCTRINATION. When you grow up in a culture of death, martyrism, irrational subjugation to a man-made prophet coupled with the fantasical promise of heaven and all that Islam offers upon the killing infidels, could anyone hope for more from these maniacs? Really?

Sadly, and only since we in this country express the idea of religious freedom, but Islam needs to be banned. It is an incidious ideology (similar to Christianity prior to Enlightenment) that has no place in modern societies and should have died long, long ago. I don’t know what the answer is but Political Correctness isn’t working and has become just another tool invented by the west to be used against the west.

Jul 30, 2008 - 7:22 am 14. ddc:

Feminism is being brought to these areas rather tenuously and little by little by brave Muslim women working outside the mainstream. It is clear that Islam hates its women by its very treatment. This hatred is only the starting point of the greater hatred spreading outward to other people, beliefs, races, etc.

In cultures where women’s status has been brought up to somewhat resemble the men of their communities, violence has been curtailed. This remains sorely lacking among Muslim countries/societies.

One gender so easily subjugating another with impunity lends too much power to that one gender. What is left is a gross lack of balance presented by the absence of an essential feminine voice.

Jul 30, 2008 - 7:41 am 15. Emily Brink:

The only problem I have with this article is that Chesler assumes that mentally ill people don’t know the difference between right and wrong. She also makes some comments about “inbreeding” among Arabs that I think are just meant to be mean and are not factual. But most troubling to me was the calling of these women mentally ill and thus furthering the stigma that mentally ill people must face all the time. I say this as a mentally ill woman who has a mentally “retarded” son.

Jul 30, 2008 - 8:44 am 16. Lynn:

When watching the report on Fox News about honor killings, I was horrified by the women who were unapologetically complicit in the murders or later defended the reasoning for them. It was also mentioned that Islamist missionaries in the United States are paid more for converting females to Islam than males. This makes perfect sense when one considers that what a cult needs to be successful are women to give birth to more cult members. These woman ferociously support its’ ideology of oppression and entrapment even when it is to the detriment of their own sex. We are our own worst enemy. The ones that shock me the most are those who have a choice to accept or reject the ideology of death and choose it freely. There is no other word for it but evil and women just as men are equal to the task. I couldn’t agree more that we are up against a formidable enemy. Thanks you for reminding us.

Jul 30, 2008 - 9:49 am 17. fred:

Christianity an “insidious ideology prior to Enlightenment”? (I took the liberty of correcting the spelling of “incidious”). That’s a sweeping statement that begs for a defensible thesis.

Can you do this? If you can, let me summon a committee to review it on the academic merits.

The concept of The Golden Rule comes from Judaism and Christianity, not Islam, not paganism, not Greek philosophy, not Marxism, and not European Deconstructionism.

The Golden Rule, a key principle in Christian morality, was in place long before the Reformation and Enlightenment. It certainly had no pagan origins, and it IS A DISTINCTIVE FEATURE THAT SEPARATES US FROM DAR AL ISLAM. The Golden Rule is a key element in the long struggle to bring full equality and respect to women. There is no such principle in Islam.

So, before you morally equivalize (a staple tactic of the Left)Christianity and Islam, you need to know what the hell you’re talking about.

Jul 30, 2008 - 10:31 am 18. heather:

over at the Belmont Club, the question is, should leadership against Islam be given to the Military or to the Cops.

In my opinion, the most important issue is women’s position within Islam. This is its weakest point from our point of view. And this is why we must see honor killings for what they are: a Tribal attempt to maintain honour, and one in which ALL the tribe acquiesces, including the mothers, etc.

And the burkha is a sign of the woman’s stance WITHIN the Tribe, it is a sign of the Tribe’s honour… it is an explicit refutation of our system whereby every individual is a a citizen, equal before our law. It is a symbol of a turning away from our law. And it should be banned.

Jul 30, 2008 - 11:03 am 19. ddc:

Fred,

People need not be either Christian, Muslim, Jewish or any other religion to understand the idea of the Golden Rule. That argument can go on forever in either direction. The rest of your comment is up for serious debate. And under what prejudice (numerous in the closed-minded Religious Right – if you want to play that game) makes you think I am part of the Left? Is name-calling part of your Golden Rule in action?

Each of the major religions, when hijacked by those with agendas, has been responsible for numerous wars in the name of their own “God.” Islam is still a few centuries behind.

Jul 30, 2008 - 12:12 pm 20. George Jochnowitz:

I remember a poem recited by my teachers at P.S. 131 in the 1940s:

What are little girls made of?
What are little girls made of?
Sugar and spice and everything nice.
That’s what little girls are made of.

What are little boys made of?
What are little boys made of?
Snakes and snails and puppy dog tails.
That’s what little boys are made of.

Jul 30, 2008 - 2:13 pm 21. Ali Baba:

Bring in the dogs!

We have stopped relying on the animal kingdom to help us out. If a man cannot walk up to a female, how about a dog? Especially one that can sniff out chemicals.

They should be at the gate of every mosque, at every school, at each check point, walking the streets. These animals can run down a car if traffic and barriers are placed right.

When a troop unit is getting shot at, a band of dogs will alert the troops where to go, or where to hit, or where to retreat.

It’s not a mystery, it’s chemistry.

Jul 30, 2008 - 2:38 pm 22. Emily Brink:

This conversation seems one-sided, examining the crimes of female suicide bombers as if our own culture didn’t have its own epidemic of violence by women. For lots of years now there have been a rise in female violence in the West, whether it be in the form of girl gangs or women killing their children or spouses. its just not as dramatic and political as strapping a bomb to your chest, but its the same thing. Women still want to be equal to men, and sometimes that frustration comes out in the form of violence.

Jul 30, 2008 - 3:04 pm 23. fred:

But the kind of violence that Ms. Chessler is getting at is more than the usual criminal kind of violence that ensnares women as well as men in our cultures. This kind of violence is ideological, theological, cosmological. It is the act of holding a gun or sword to the heads of other human beings with the aim of exacting “divine” punishment. It says, “If you don’t adhere to Allah’s demands, we will kill you and indeed we are already in the process of taking your lives.”

It does not matter if men are doing this or women are doing this. This is POLITICAL violence. I don’t label it religious violence because I do not consider Islam to be a religion. It’s a totalitarian cult, founded by a personality disordered narcissist who put words into “Allah’s” mouth to justify his every whim. I’m not making this up and these are not my ideas. There are prominent former Muslims who have stated this and much, much more.

Using women as shaheeds is not an astonishing thing. These people will do anything and stop at nothing to wage jihad. They will use children. They’ll use animals. They will use ANYTHING to advance the violence and there are no ethics in the Qur’an and ahadith to restrain them, because YOU CAN DO ANYTHING TO A KAFIR OR A MUSLIM APOSTATE. This is something that is particularly difficult for Westerners to wrap their minds around.

Jul 30, 2008 - 5:33 pm 24. John R:

Great point, Fred. Would it were that this message could be spread loudly and broadly across the globe. Tamping out violent islam, in addition to guns and bombs, will require bringing shame to a shame and honor culture. Specifically, the West needs to bring ridicule and shame straight to islam so as to make it embarrasing to publiclly practice islam. That is, muslims need to reconnect to the most basic traits of humanity.

Jul 31, 2008 - 8:14 am 25. Emily Brink:

I am ashamed to even be in this conversation. Islam is a noble religion and culture, and several people here have completely dismissed it as backward and invalid, which is exactly the sort of cultural chauvinism that keeps the bombs flying, in my opinion. I’d point out that Islam enjoyed a golden age while Europe was still in the dark ages. Islam pioneered women’s rights during this time and made many important advances in mathematics and literature, and jews and christians who lived under the Moors enjoyed complete religious freedom. I think the comments here on Islam are totally racist.
Muslims from many walks of life will tell you it is America’s support for Israel that enrages them. I believe that if we stopped that, it would go a long way towards reconciliation. But I know that is not going to happen, because of the large and vocal Jewish population in the U.S.

Jul 31, 2008 - 8:39 am 26. tanstaafl:

She also makes some comments about “inbreeding” among Arabs that I think are just meant to be mean and are not factual.

Inter-familial reproduction,inbreeding, is rather common in Arab culture, see especially many physical problems today among Saudi Arabians from reproducing with a too close (genetically) relative.

Saddam Hussein married a first cousin and produced Uday and Qusay, as well as some (still surviving) daughters. I always thought the peculiar horror of those two sons, especially Uday, had something to do with a hugely flawed genetic makeup.

Jul 31, 2008 - 9:14 am 27. Jay:

“Islam pioneered women’s rights”

….I suggest you go back to the drawing board.

Now excuse me while I leave the room and laugh really hard….

Jul 31, 2008 - 9:18 am 28. Emily Brink:

You may be correct about that, but just because a person is mentally challenged by an illness or disability does not mean they do not know the difference between right and wrong.

Jul 31, 2008 - 9:21 am 29. tanstaafl:

…which is exactly the sort of cultural chauvinism that keeps the bombs flying.

You couldn’t possibly be rationalizing the female bombers who just killed many at a religious gathering in Baghdad ?

Shi’ites, the natural enemy of jihad oriented Sunnis/Al Qaeda and most often the preferred target of al-Zarqawi in Iraq, before his fortunate demise.

You need to read up on the religion of peace, for (paraphrasing a comment I read earlier today) while there are peace loving Muslims, there cannot be any peace loving Islamists.

Link: The Religion of Peace

Jul 31, 2008 - 9:29 am 30. Emily Brink:

What about the Crusades, the Inquisition, the 100 years war, the deaths that arose from the conflict during the protestant reformation,the “troubles” in Ireland, and the use of Christian ideology to kill and convert Indians and to own slaves?

I stand by what I said, Islam was a rather enlightened religion while Europe and America were the barbarians. You can’t make a blanket statement on an entire culture based on the way they act at one moment in time.

Jul 31, 2008 - 9:49 am 31. PC Watch:

Norman,

My suggestion to you – Avoid even the appearance of impropriety. Get your secretary in with you if you need to meet with one of these students. Refuse to meet if someone else can’t be in the room. Even then, tape conversations if you need to. Don’t leave an area where someone could get into a “he said, she said” shoving match. Your demographic combined with the PC atmosphere at our “fine” education facilities will ensure you’re on the losing end of that match.

Jul 31, 2008 - 11:39 am 32. fred:

“I am ashamed to even be in this conversation. Islam is a noble religion and culture,”

I can only conclude that “Emily Brink” is a female Muslim and is in this discussion to try to discredit what I have written, lest it have any influence at all on how others ponder the issue of jihad violence.

It is not a noble religion, Ms. Brink. You are part of a death cult and the world’s oldest totalitarian ideology. Muhammad MADE IT ALL UP, and had his sock puppet deity sacralize all of his disgusting urges. And women are among the most put upon victims of his demonic movement.

I am not afraid to confront people like you. I wish to expose the taqiyya of all Muslims like you. I am not alone in thinking these things and we wish people like you would move back to Muslim countries where Sharia Law is practiced. You are here for one purpose only: our subjugation. Well, a lot of us will refuse to pronounce the Shehada or pay the jizya as dhimmis. I will never consent to be a slave.

The only Western leader who had your number was Thomas Jefferson. He decided to not pay tribute (jizya), and sent the U.S. Marines instead.

“Allah” is Satan.

Jul 31, 2008 - 12:31 pm 33. Emily Brink:

This is almost comical, being accused of being a Muslim and of being a suicide bomber, simply because I am trying to have a debate. You, sir, are a zealot.

Jul 31, 2008 - 2:15 pm 34. fred:

Emily Brink, you, m’am, are an Islamist. Using the word “zealot” gives you away. If you attack a critique of Islam – and one that is solid – you expect that I should take it lying down? I’m not a dhimmi you can compel into silence. I can summon whatever surah and verse from your scriptures (Qur’an) which the shaheeds use correctly and faithfully. And the only reason why they would not attack you for denying the words of “Allah” is because they know what you are doing and approve of it: you are engaging in taqiyya and this doctrine in Islam is encouraged and permitted. You, m’am, are allowed to deceive me and not having accounted against you as sin. In my Church, lying to you, unless for the purpose of saving life, is not permitted. I’m held to a higher standard than you are.

Christianity is the superior religion, because we are not permitted to slay the innocent, even if they are not Christians. You, on the other hand, are allowed to kill unbelievers and apostates. You are even permitted to order my death because I blasphemed against Allah.

What you stated in above posts is “puff” information that is easily traceable to Eurabian academics and bureaucrats in Europe. In the United States, this historical revisionism was advanced by Edward Said and is now carried forward by Prof. John Esposito, of Georgetown University, and then disseminated to his students. Prof. Esposito’s “scholarship” is impugned because of his financial ties to The Kingdom. Over at jihadwatch.org we have thoroughly critiqued Esposito’s work for the fraud that it is. I’ve actually met Prof. Esposito many years ago when I was a Jesuit seminarian attatched to Georgetown University for a short assignment. I have read and studied the Qur’an and English translations of ahadith. I know more about what is in your scriptures than Prof. Esposito does.

Yes, indeed, I am most zealous for the truth. But Islam is a cult of lies (among other things)and it has misrepresented both Christianity and Judaism in its scriptures. And what better proof of the vicious nature of Islam and Muhammad than the fact that, over a period of a decade, Muhammad had most of the Jews of Yathrid and surrounding oases either driven into exile or massacred.

Don’t expect to get your way all the time in my country. Gradually more Americans are coming to know the truth about Islam and someday your da’wa and taqiyya, as outlined in the strategy articulated by the Muslim Brotherhood, will fail. You won’t get Sharia Law in our country, despite the best efforts of that turncoat Jewish lawyer Noah Feldman (himself one of Esposito’s students).

Jul 31, 2008 - 2:40 pm 35. dirigible:

Women are idealized as morally superior to men?

Huh?

Jul 31, 2008 - 6:41 pm 36. njcommuter:

Let me ask a crass question: were the killers past childbearing age, or was it possible they might still bear children? The society in question has been killing its children–eating its seed corn. If it is now using its potential mothers as weapons–destroying its cropland–it has reached a new state of depravity. The good thing, if one can call it that, is that this is a self-destructive act; a society that does it slowly destroys itself.

Jul 31, 2008 - 6:42 pm 37. aloysiusmiller:

The FLDS women are the most ardent defenders of their oppression. No suicide bombers yet though…

Jul 31, 2008 - 6:59 pm 38. poppa india:

Emily, what does it matter if one religion acted more enlightened than another one hundred or five hundred years ago, when people are being killed by its adherents today? The victims are dead, no matter how wonderful you say their murderer’s ancestors were. What can we do about it now is the problem.

Jul 31, 2008 - 7:10 pm 39. sigh:

jews and christians who lived under the Moors enjoyed complete religious freedom.

Easily proven false with basic research.

Jul 31, 2008 - 7:12 pm 40. reality:

Islam is a cancer on the world.

Jul 31, 2008 - 7:13 pm 41. thinkingoutloud:

not to dispute your general assertion that women are as capable as men, there *does* seem to be a correlation between female suicide bombers and grief. Key quote from the NYT piece you link to:

“If there’s one single trend that I see, it’s the women’s relationship with the male figures that were members of A.Q.I. and were captured or killed,” said a senior military analyst, who spoke on condition of anonymity because he was discussing information that had not been released publicly.

… so I think your analysis is discounting this correlation.

Jul 31, 2008 - 7:26 pm 42. thinkingoutloud:

oops, I meant to write ‘capable of cruelty as men’ not ‘capable as men’.

Jul 31, 2008 - 7:50 pm 43. Dan:

Emily – what a complete and dangerous fool you are. Islam is a death cult, are you too indoctrinated or stupid to know that? How’s you burka fitting these days?

Jul 31, 2008 - 8:10 pm 44. pseudotsuga:

“Islam is a noble religion and culture…”
It may be a noble religion as practiced by many, yet those who are noble in Islam seem to be a lot less visible or vocal than the extremists, whose Islam is often far from noble.

“…and several people here have completely dismissed it as backward and invalid, which is exactly the sort of cultural chauvinism that keeps the bombs flying…”
Yet the behavior of many Muslims shows this dismissal to be valid. I would also point out here that you are blaming the West for the actions of many Muslims. The culture and actions of the West make a convenient excuse, but are certainly not the cause of the bullets and bombs.

“I’d point out that Islam enjoyed a golden age while Europe was still in the dark ages.”
That was then–where is Islam’s Enlightenment, or Renaissance? You also seem to either ignore, or not be aware, that many of the things that you point to as part of Islam’s golden age were not actually Islamic in origin, but borrowed from neighboring cultures and regions (Greece, India, etc.)

“Islam pioneered women’s rights during this time”
If so, why did they remove so many of those rights?

“and made many important advances in mathematics and literature, and jews and christians who lived under the Moors enjoyed complete religious freedom.”
Yet one can argue these exact same things about other time periods in the Western World. You seem to be saying that nothing has changed in either Western civilization or Islamic civilization since then. Also, this tolerance did not last in Moorish Spain. After the collapse of the 10th century Caliphate of Cordoba, extremists took over, and zealous persecutions of Jews and Christians began. I am not saying that Christians did not do their share of persecution, but rather it is ludicrous to believe that Islam was so much *more* tolerant.

“I think the comments here on Islam are totally racist.”
Sorry, the race card doesn’t work here, since Muslims are not a race. Muslims are black, white, brown, African, European, Asian, etc. Your statement here really damages your credibility.

“Muslims from many walks of life will tell you it is America’s support for Israel that enrages them.”
Yet many of these varied Muslims have been lied to about this.

“I believe that if we stopped that, it would go a long way towards reconciliation. But I know that is not going to happen, because of the large and vocal Jewish population in the U.S.”
It’s a straw man argument that has been convenient for politics and ideology of the Muslim world for over 50 years now, and doesn’t hold up to the light of reality.
Tell us, Emily, why didn’t the other Muslims allow Palestine refugees to settle in their countries, 50 years ago? Didn’t they love their fellow Muslims and want to succor them in their time of need? Or do they want them perpetually grieved and poor?

Jul 31, 2008 - 8:27 pm 45. Tatterdemalian:

Emily is clearly not a Muslim. If she were, she would be saying the same things about Islam that Ms. Chesler has, only she would be saying them with pride, not with disgust.

As for you, Emily, you will one day find out that sometimes, people will tell you lies, even when they have nothing to gain from it. Even Muslims.

Jul 31, 2008 - 8:53 pm 46. M. Simon:

Inbreeding:

Cousin Marriage

Jul 31, 2008 - 9:32 pm 47. M. Simon:

Crusades:

Christian push back against Islamic depredations.

The inquisition 3,000 victims over a period of 100s of years. How many victims of Islam this year?

Jul 31, 2008 - 9:41 pm 48. M. Simon:

Look at Islam’s long history in India. They too pride in killing 100,000 Hindus every year.

What does that have to do with the West?

Jul 31, 2008 - 9:44 pm 49. Richard:

An interesting piece and an interesting debate. Usually the “Comments” section on this kind of thing contains nothing more than rants and insults. In this case, there are some of both, but also some very thoughtful analysis. Congrats Chesler. Having said that, as someone raised as a Christian but now, late in life, a total secularist, I can but agree wholeheartedly with Chesler’s take on this issue. Islam is a poison, just like most other religions are from time to time. Whenever we cease to take PERSONAL responsibility for our own actions and for the safety and harmony of our own communities and instead follow the dictates of an imagined deity or his “prophets”, the result will always be the same: chaos, conflict and, dare I say, jihad.

Jul 31, 2008 - 10:50 pm 50. Californio:

I am very cautious about any religious or quasi-religious belief that imbues its followers with a self-defined justification for killing other persons because a supposedly superior being is scared of their non-belief. Such reliance on violence indicates that such persons worship a small small god who is enfeabled by mere humans. Like tinkerbell – does he desparately need you to believe in him to exist? Theologically that is just sad.

Jul 31, 2008 - 11:31 pm 51. GMF:

Emily,

You make the standard boilerplate accusation about how supporting Israel enrages Muslims.

But how does that explain Sunni MUSLIMS blowing up Shi’ite MUSLIMS. Did they think that those people in the funny robes were tourists from New York????

Most acts of terrorism by Muslims are directed at other Muslims and the next largest group targeted are non-westerners such as Hindus in India. Americans and westerners tend to be not frequently targeted despite the fact that supposedly we CAUSE the terrorism.

As for the history of Islam, I agree that there were periods of tolerance, but this history doesn’t seem to influence the current crop of radicals who are much more interested in killing than living in peace.

Accusations like “cultural chauvinism keeps the bombs flying” are a convenient way shift blame. But if you look at the number of young Muslim women in US, Canada and Europe who have met violent deaths at the hands of Muslims (ie honor killings), you might start to wonder just who the Cultural Chauvinists are…..

Aug 1, 2008 - 2:48 am 52. SFC Cheryl McElroy US ARMY (RET):

Gotta love those Islamofascists. They’re not averse to putting aside their misogynist tendencies for a little “equal opportunity” when it comes to terrorist acts.

Aug 1, 2008 - 5:36 am 53. Oligonicella:

Fred — Baloney. The Golden Rule is pan-cultural. There’s nothing specifically Christian about it.

Aug 1, 2008 - 6:26 am 54. njoriole:

As Kipling wrote, “When the Himalayan peasant meets the he-bear in his pride, he will shout to scare the monster, who will often turn aside, but the she-bear thus accosted rends the peasant tooth and nail, for the female of the species is more deadly than the male.”

Aug 1, 2008 - 8:02 am 55. fred:

“Fred — Baloney. The Golden Rule is pan-cultural. There’s nothing specifically Christian about it.”

Prove it. Show me where in the Qur’an – and make sure it’s not the abrogated Meccan verses – unbelievers are on the same footing as Muslims.

The only other tradition I will concede probably has some version of The Golden Rule would be Buddhism. I can’t prove it, since I am not an expert on Buddhism, but given the ethics of that “Way” it is likely to be there in some form. But it was not there in the pantheon of pagan cults of Rome. It wasn’t there in Greek philosophy.

“Hear O Israel… you shall love the Lord your God with your whole heart, all your strength, and with all your mind. AND YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.” There it is, in our tradition.

Show me where it is found, as a proper theological-religious mandate, in other cultures.

Put up or shut up.

Aug 1, 2008 - 8:38 am 56. Ron:

Semtex neither discriminates or elevates, within range it only maims and kills and its premeditated use is to terrorize and destroy as many souls as possible. Ultimately though it leaves nothing but bloodshed, no virgins, no lavish rewards – just death and misery.

As far as I know, ME women do not dial an infomercial # and have c-4 delivered next day. The fact of the matter is they are approached by jihadist men who assure them there is no higher honor than to die for Allah and the Koran. These Islamist thugs have no conscience exploiting their oppressed women be they in a state of grief, religious euphoria, mentally challenged or disabled.

They are inhuman, their extremism is symptomatic of their fatalist beliefs and a misogynistic culture that values death above all life – man, woman child.

Aug 1, 2008 - 10:11 am 57. Emily Brink:

Really all I was doing was making a plea for understanding. I believe that is the most powerful “weapon” we have in the fight for human rights, everywhere. Many people have commented and most have attacked me and disregarded Islam. But a few people made some interesting points, and I have made a note of them.
I just saw a series of short films made in commemoration of September 11. I didn’t think they were very good except for the very first film, which takes place in Iran at an Afghani refugee camp. The film is of a teacher as she tries to teach the local refugee children about what happened on 9/11. When she says “A terrible thing happened in the United States today, do you know what happened?” the children answer “Someone fell down the well and died” and “Auntie was buried up to her neck and stoned.” The children, living in a refugee camp, have no concept of an event this massive. The children then debate what caused this event that the teacher mentions. Some of them say “God killed them– God gives life and god takes it away. God does not have planes”, and so forth. Finally, after the children continue chattering during the “moment of silence” that the teacher requests, she takes them outside to look at the kiln chimney, which is the closest approximation to a tower that exists in the village. The chimney, smoking from the top of course, eerily reminds one of the first pictures of the explosion when the fire had not yet spread and the tower had not yet collapsed. My point is, many Muslims live in such pre-modern conditions that they can not fathom anyone’s suffering but their own. Many do not have access to free information. Avenues to independence are closed off. This does not excuse killing, but it might help explain the lack of compassion they show towards non-Muslims.

Aug 1, 2008 - 3:39 pm 58. Terry Gain:

Emily

Your plea is more accurately desrcibed as one for the advancement of uninformed political correctness.

And your attempt to blame non-Muslims for the atrocities committed by Muslims against Muslims, Hindus, Christians , Jews and non-believers – in fact anyone in their way- shows a profound ignorance of history.

You should be ashamed alright- by your own comments.

Aug 1, 2008 - 5:36 pm 59. Emily Brink:

sorry to inform you, Terry, but I am completely shameless. And I feel very, very sorry for you and the others here who are not at peace and choked with hatred. You have constructed your own mental prison and I can do nothing to help you.

Laffin,
emily

Aug 1, 2008 - 7:40 pm 60. L.Carlin:

Emily: For your consideration from the Contentons Blog.

From Hamas to Christianity
Noah Pollak – 07.31.2008 – 4:11 PM

An amazing story from Avi Issacharov, one of Haaretz’s best reporters: The son of one of the West Bank’s most notorious Hamas leaders has converted to Christianity. And he rejects his previous life with a vengeance:

“Send regards to Israel, I miss it. I respect Israel and admire it as a country,” he says.

“You Jews should be aware: You will never, but never have peace with Hamas. Islam, as the ideology that guides them, will not allow them to achieve a peace agreement with the Jews. They believe that tradition says that the Prophet Mohammed fought against the Jews and that therefore they must continue to fight them to the death.”

Emily, the tolerance you claim was quite conditional. Again from the Contentions Blog:

It is not a dispute over land. It is not the Nakba, it is not anti-Semitism. The problem is the Koran.

Mohammed resolved Arabia’s Jewish problem. He made Jews a protected people. They and Christians alone would not be forced to choose between the sword or conversion. They were allowed a niche within Islam, as a second class people. They would not be allowed to wear silks or ride a horse or carry a sword. They would have to step aside for Muslims in the streets, and their word bowed to a Muslim’s word in a court of law, but they were allowed to live. And thus they lived, as second class citizens. Under some regimes they were nevertheless compelled to convert and their were murderous pogroms, but all in all, Jews suffered less in Arab lands than in Europe.

All that changed in 1948. Because a sovereign Jewish state, in the middle of the Arab world no less, was a total refutation of Mohammed. Jews were arrogating to themselves equality with Muslims. They professed to be indistinguishable in law and under heaven, to Muslims. They were challening the niche to which the Prophet had assigned them. They were refuting the world order which the Koran had laid out for all time.

The Koran destined the Jews to be humiliated and subordinated to Muslims forever. While Israel exists as a sovereign Jewish state in Islam’s heartland it represents a direct attack on the truth of the Koran. For this reason devout Muslim will never be able to accept Israel, until the day the Koran accepts exegesis.

Aug 1, 2008 - 9:40 pm 61. fred:

Emily,

Do you want to know what hatred is? Go read the Qur’an. Go read some English translations of the two most authoritative ahadith, Bukhari and Muslim. Go get educated about Sharia Law. Read about the life and deeds of Muhammad. I highly recommend a book by an apostate Muslim who at one time, in Iran, was studying to be a cleric. He is highly educated and sophisticated. His name is Ali Sina and the book: “Understanding Muhammad: A Psychobiography.” I also recommend any of the books written by Robert Spencer, Bat Ye’or, Andrew Bostom, Ibn Warraq, and the testimony of a former terrorist named Walid Shoebat. The most damning things about Islam are written and spoken BY FORMER MUSLIMS.

Conservatively estimated (and the count is still going up as history moves onward)Bill Warner finds that Islamic jihad has murdered over 270 million human beings over the course of 1,400 years.

There are the crushing and brutally demeaning laws which reduce Jews and Christians to the status of dhimmis – second class citizens. Jews and Christians are called “apes and pigs” in some hadith.

I could go on and on in order to illustrate the depth of hatred that emanates from Muhammad’s sock puppet deity, “Allah.”

The defiance I display for Islam and its prophet is a healthy response to a certain, lethal threat that comes from this, the oldest totalitarian ideology.

It is no historical accident that the various Marxisms on the Left have made a filthy, evil alliance of convenience with Islam.

Aug 1, 2008 - 9:52 pm 62. Lowell:

Reminds me of the last stanza of Rudyard Kipling’s poem: “The Young British Soldier.”

When you’re wounded and left on Afghanistan’s plains,
And the women come out to cut up what remains,
Jest roll to your rifle and blow out your brains
An’ go to your Gawd like a soldier.
Go, go, go like a soldier,
Go, go, go like a soldier,
Go, go, go like a soldier,
So-oldier _of_ the Queen!.

Also, the stories from the settlement of the American West were that the worst tortures of someone captured by the Indians were administered by the women. Maybe that was just fiction–or maybe there was something to it.

Aug 2, 2008 - 1:04 am 63. tanstaafl:

Gotta love those Islamofascists. They’re not averse to putting aside their misogynist tendencies for a little “equal opportunity” when it comes to terrorist acts.

Yes.

The fact of the matter is they (ME women) are approached by jihadist men who assure them there is no higher honor than to die for Allah and the Koran. These Islamist thugs have no conscience exploiting their oppressed women be they in a state of grief, religious euphoria, mentally challenged or disabled.

It would seem so. I always found it ironic how so many of the chief proponents of the glories of “martyrdom” (e.g., bin Laden, Zawahiri, Sheikh Yassin (now deceased) in Palestine) work very hard to protect their own glorious asses.

The most damning things about Islam are written and spoken BY FORMER MUSLIMS.

Always the most credible sources. Also, the writings of the Iranian (by birth) Amir Taheri.

Aug 2, 2008 - 8:08 am 64. Nasi:

Ms. Chesler, I’m sure you’re convinced of what you’re alleging but do your realize that more often than not these poor women are not some indoctrinated kook as they are 2nd class people (not even citizens) who do not have the control or the run of their own lives and have been beaten into submission by some male figure? OR that their families are blackmailed by the insurgents into getting their daughters, mothers, sisters to perpetrate such acts so that they can save the family’s face in those communities? Madame you may have lived in Afghanistan for 5 minutes 40 years ago but you have absorbed nothing of the socio-cultural aspects of those countries and how the patriarchal power imposes (a lack of) “choices” on women in that part of the world. If you stopped hating all muslims long enough, you’d see that in fact there are other, peripheral issues at work here. Like most westerners you only judge things from your own angle and though you lived in that part of the world, it appears that you absorbed little or nothing.

Aug 2, 2008 - 9:36 am 65. fred:

No, Nasi, sorry, I’m not buying your Third World Oppression meme/explanation. Islam and its scriptures are the source of the violence. Otherwise, why aren’t South American kids in the favelas or impoverished Filipinos doing suicide bombing? There are misogynist tendencies in those cultures too. Plus, before there was Islam in Arabia and before Muhammad (Pigs**it Be Upon Him) Arabian women were not generally treated this way.

Islam is the source. Islam is the cause of most of the violence in the world today. Thailand, East Timor, Malaysia, Southern Philippines, lots of places in Africa, etc.

Aug 2, 2008 - 11:38 am 66. Emily Brink:

“these poor women are not some indoctrinated kook”

Nasi–
oh my, was that a dig at me? There are plenty of more worthy causes in the world I can support than yours. If that is the attitude you are going to take towards someone who was trying to defend you, then consider my support for you Nil. You can fight this battle alone, as I said there are plenty of causes out there who would love support from this “indoctrinated kook”.

Ta-Ta

Aug 2, 2008 - 2:04 pm 67. tanstaafl:

…how the patriarchal power imposes (a lack of) “choices” on women in that part of the world.

It would be hard to argue with the notion that patriarchal power is one of the drivers of (some) female suicide bombers.

I recall a few years ago a highly devout Muslim woman in the West Bank who was trained for a mission inside Israel. At the last minute, she couldn’t detonate herself and/or destroy her intended targets.

She was arrested by the Israelis. I don’t know where she is today, but I think about her and I admire her for being “unable” to carry out her mission.

OR that their families are blackmailed by the insurgents into getting their daughters, mothers, sisters to perpetrate such acts so that they can save the family’s face in those communities?

“The insurgents” in the Northwest region of Pakistan are intimidating the local tribes, as well. The people there are suffering under Taliban like fundamentalism and intimadation.

A courageous woman doesn’t go along with the program. She refuses.

It can happen.

Accusing someone of “hating Muslims” is really not the point.

Look around the world at events of the past several decades, from Africa to Indonesia to the Philippines to Europe to anywhere in the Middle East, to the Far East, to North America, even to South America, it is “Muslims” instigating and promoting the killing and mayhem.

Aug 2, 2008 - 7:55 pm 68. tanstaafl:

intimadation

intimidation

Aug 2, 2008 - 7:58 pm 69. Dee:

Otherwise, why aren’t… impoverished Filipinos doing suicide bombing?
Actually they have been for quite a few years, except they weren’t the northern Filip’s.

The Bangsamoro from the southern Mindanao Islands, which are geologically closest to Malaysia, were the suicide bombers of their day; however, the Moros typically stuck to using knifes (bolos) to commit their suicidal actions.

And yes the Moro are generally Sunni Muslim, and are still getting testy and support Abu Sayaf and Jemaah Islamiyah.

Moroland is where US Army soldiers came up with the very non-PC phrase, “Let’s civilize ‘em with a Krag.”

Aug 4, 2008 - 1:54 am 70. Chesler Chronicles » The Electronic Jihadist: A Brief Conversation With Dr. Nancy H. Kobrin.:

[...] people came by: Dr. Nancy Kobrin, with whom I have written articles (you may read some of them, Here, Here, Here, and Here) and whose work I adore. Dr. Nancy is an Arabist and psycho-analyst whose [...]

Dec 4, 2008 - 2:56 pm 71. Woman’s Inhumanity to Woman, Jihadic Style. President Obama, Please Read This. « ACT Northern Virginia/Richmond/DC Metro Chapter.:

[...] of their daughters; and about female Muslim suicide-homicide bombers who have specifically targeted other women and [...]

May 1, 2009 - 9:13 pm

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