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	<title>Comments on: 9/11: Have Seven Years Really Passed?</title>
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		<title>By: Marion L</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/phyllischesler/2008/09/11/911-have-seven-years-really-passed/comment-page-1/#comment-6678</link>
		<dc:creator>Marion L</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Sep 2008 21:36:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/phyllischesler/2008/09/11/911-have-seven-years-really-passed/#comment-6678</guid>
		<description>Dear br549:

If I only cared about &quot;I, me, mine,&quot; I would not bother to read Dr. Chesler&#039;s Chronicles.  Nor would I contribute time and money to the causes that I believe in. I do this because &quot;it is the right thing to do.&quot;  

As for the hands clasped, eyes batting, and &quot;swooning uncontrollaby&quot;, it sounds like a great pose for an artist&#039;s model or an audition for a part in a silent film.  Are you auditioning?  If so, Best of Luck!  Please let all of us know if you get the job.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear br549:</p>
<p>If I only cared about &#8220;I, me, mine,&#8221; I would not bother to read Dr. Chesler&#8217;s Chronicles.  Nor would I contribute time and money to the causes that I believe in. I do this because &#8220;it is the right thing to do.&#8221;  </p>
<p>As for the hands clasped, eyes batting, and &#8220;swooning uncontrollaby&#8221;, it sounds like a great pose for an artist&#8217;s model or an audition for a part in a silent film.  Are you auditioning?  If so, Best of Luck!  Please let all of us know if you get the job.</p>
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		<title>By: br549</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/phyllischesler/2008/09/11/911-have-seven-years-really-passed/comment-page-1/#comment-6672</link>
		<dc:creator>br549</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Sep 2008 16:59:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/phyllischesler/2008/09/11/911-have-seven-years-really-passed/#comment-6672</guid>
		<description>Marion L:

Although you feel you do not have to justify what you do to Jeff P or JFP, (and perhaps anyone else?) I am amused you feel you have to tell everyone about it, and at least harangue Dr. Chesler over her own points of view.

So do you do it for the sake it is the right thing to do, or so everyone will think how wonderful you are, as long as they agree with you? 

I , me , mine  is what I see. 

My hands are clasped together, pressed against my cheek. My eyes are batting, and I am swooning uncontrollably at your greatness.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Marion L:</p>
<p>Although you feel you do not have to justify what you do to Jeff P or JFP, (and perhaps anyone else?) I am amused you feel you have to tell everyone about it, and at least harangue Dr. Chesler over her own points of view.</p>
<p>So do you do it for the sake it is the right thing to do, or so everyone will think how wonderful you are, as long as they agree with you? </p>
<p>I , me , mine  is what I see. </p>
<p>My hands are clasped together, pressed against my cheek. My eyes are batting, and I am swooning uncontrollably at your greatness.</p>
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		<title>By: Marion L</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/phyllischesler/2008/09/11/911-have-seven-years-really-passed/comment-page-1/#comment-6644</link>
		<dc:creator>Marion L</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Sep 2008 22:15:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/phyllischesler/2008/09/11/911-have-seven-years-really-passed/#comment-6644</guid>
		<description>Critical response to this article (actually to Jeff P, JFP) for today:

Dear Jeff P, JFP:

I&#039;m an ardent Jewish feminist (and a left/liberal) and would, to put it mildly, notice immediately if anyone (God forbid!) put me under &quot;relentless pressure ... to accept sharia.&quot;  No one has. 

When Salman Rushdie was put under a fatwa for publishing his novel The Satanic Verses, I promptly went out and bought a copy.  I&#039;ve bought (and loved reading) Aayan Hirsi Ali&#039;s books too. Ms. Ali and I do not necessarily agree on every point of political philosophy, but she is one of my feminist heros; as is Waris Dirie.  I&#039;ve read two of Ms. Dirie&#039;s books too and will, funds permitting, contribute to the Waris Dirie Foundation.

I also earned a master&#039;s degree in anthropology, much of it focused on the ethnography of the Middle East and North Africa; because I think that the best criticisms of a regional practice (in this case, sharia) should be informed by a strong knowledge base of the specific cultures involved.  (And I say this with some humility as my professors were and are far more erudite in this area than I.)

My &quot;prism&quot; for looking at post-9/11 events is a commitment to human rights as stated in the United States Constitution; especially the Bill of Rights.  In my opinion, the Iraq war, Abu Ghraib, Guantanamo, the Patriot Act, and extraordinary renditions are ample evidence that it is the Bush ministration&#039;s &quot;prism&quot; that has been distorted by deliberate lies,abuses of power and contempt for the Bill of Rights.

Also, as a member of the National Organization for Women, I attended a hearing in support of a New York State law now on the books that prohibits the horrific practice of female genital mutilation in New York State.

Finally, I think that the best way for me (us) to continue our opposition to abusive laws (or abusive violations of laws) in the United States is to support organizations such as Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, Equality Now, and the Center for Constitutional Rights.  These organizations help a very wide range of individuals all over the world whose human rights have been violated; including victims of human rights abuses that specifically target women.  

I could list more examples of what I have done and continue to do. However, while I am certainly not perfect,  I&#039;m comfortable with what I do in the realm of tikkun olam - healing, mending and repairing this very flawed and broken world -- and tzedek, tzedek tirdof (justice, justice shalt thou persue) and therefore I do not think that I need to justify what I do to you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Critical response to this article (actually to Jeff P, JFP) for today:</p>
<p>Dear Jeff P, JFP:</p>
<p>I&#8217;m an ardent Jewish feminist (and a left/liberal) and would, to put it mildly, notice immediately if anyone (God forbid!) put me under &#8220;relentless pressure &#8230; to accept sharia.&#8221;  No one has. </p>
<p>When Salman Rushdie was put under a fatwa for publishing his novel The Satanic Verses, I promptly went out and bought a copy.  I&#8217;ve bought (and loved reading) Aayan Hirsi Ali&#8217;s books too. Ms. Ali and I do not necessarily agree on every point of political philosophy, but she is one of my feminist heros; as is Waris Dirie.  I&#8217;ve read two of Ms. Dirie&#8217;s books too and will, funds permitting, contribute to the Waris Dirie Foundation.</p>
<p>I also earned a master&#8217;s degree in anthropology, much of it focused on the ethnography of the Middle East and North Africa; because I think that the best criticisms of a regional practice (in this case, sharia) should be informed by a strong knowledge base of the specific cultures involved.  (And I say this with some humility as my professors were and are far more erudite in this area than I.)</p>
<p>My &#8220;prism&#8221; for looking at post-9/11 events is a commitment to human rights as stated in the United States Constitution; especially the Bill of Rights.  In my opinion, the Iraq war, Abu Ghraib, Guantanamo, the Patriot Act, and extraordinary renditions are ample evidence that it is the Bush ministration&#8217;s &#8220;prism&#8221; that has been distorted by deliberate lies,abuses of power and contempt for the Bill of Rights.</p>
<p>Also, as a member of the National Organization for Women, I attended a hearing in support of a New York State law now on the books that prohibits the horrific practice of female genital mutilation in New York State.</p>
<p>Finally, I think that the best way for me (us) to continue our opposition to abusive laws (or abusive violations of laws) in the United States is to support organizations such as Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, Equality Now, and the Center for Constitutional Rights.  These organizations help a very wide range of individuals all over the world whose human rights have been violated; including victims of human rights abuses that specifically target women.  </p>
<p>I could list more examples of what I have done and continue to do. However, while I am certainly not perfect,  I&#8217;m comfortable with what I do in the realm of tikkun olam &#8211; healing, mending and repairing this very flawed and broken world &#8212; and tzedek, tzedek tirdof (justice, justice shalt thou persue) and therefore I do not think that I need to justify what I do to you.</p>
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		<title>By: Always On Watch</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/phyllischesler/2008/09/11/911-have-seven-years-really-passed/comment-page-1/#comment-6642</link>
		<dc:creator>Always On Watch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Sep 2008 22:10:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/phyllischesler/2008/09/11/911-have-seven-years-really-passed/#comment-6642</guid>
		<description>This 9/11, I taught the first class of the 2008-2009 term for American Government.  Our topic of discussion, more a lecture from me: that 9/11 is still impacting us in many ways.  I hope to expand upon this theme throughout the term so that these young people can come to a recognition of what we&#039;re up against.

9/11 changed my life!  I knew two people in the Pentagon that morning.  Both were safe, thank God!  But we didn&#039;t know for hours and hours how they were or if there were even alive.  Both these individuals had young children, and we all breathed a sigh of relief when we heard from them much later in the day.

Please, America, never forget what happened on 9/11!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This 9/11, I taught the first class of the 2008-2009 term for American Government.  Our topic of discussion, more a lecture from me: that 9/11 is still impacting us in many ways.  I hope to expand upon this theme throughout the term so that these young people can come to a recognition of what we&#8217;re up against.</p>
<p>9/11 changed my life!  I knew two people in the Pentagon that morning.  Both were safe, thank God!  But we didn&#8217;t know for hours and hours how they were or if there were even alive.  Both these individuals had young children, and we all breathed a sigh of relief when we heard from them much later in the day.</p>
<p>Please, America, never forget what happened on 9/11!</p>
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		<title>By: Marion L</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/phyllischesler/2008/09/11/911-have-seven-years-really-passed/comment-page-1/#comment-6641</link>
		<dc:creator>Marion L</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Sep 2008 21:45:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/phyllischesler/2008/09/11/911-have-seven-years-really-passed/#comment-6641</guid>
		<description>Positive response to this article for today:

Isn&#039;t it wonderful that both Jeff P (sometimes posting as JFP) and I both have the freedom to express our different points of view?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Positive response to this article for today:</p>
<p>Isn&#8217;t it wonderful that both Jeff P (sometimes posting as JFP) and I both have the freedom to express our different points of view?</p>
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		<title>By: JFP</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/phyllischesler/2008/09/11/911-have-seven-years-really-passed/comment-page-1/#comment-6480</link>
		<dc:creator>JFP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Sep 2008 13:44:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/phyllischesler/2008/09/11/911-have-seven-years-really-passed/#comment-6480</guid>
		<description>I am curious, Marion L. You agree that 9/11 was a direct hit on, among other things, women&#039;s rights. So what are you doing to stop the relentless pressure on us to accept shari&#039;a? Have you participated in a public demonstration against the plight of women in the Muslim world? Did you get enraged at the murder of Theo van Gogh and write an angry letter to the NY Times about it? Just what exactly are you doing?

Shari&#039;a is something that should be impossible to impose on the West. Conservative Christians don&#039;t want it, for obvious reasons. Libertarians don&#039;t want it, because it is a restriction on people&#039;s liberty. And liberals and leftists ought not to want it, because it is sexist and homophobic and anyway, most of them are secular.

Now the first two groups have given an unambiguous no to shari&#039;a. They will fight to the death to oppose it. But the third group&#039;s answer is in question. They seem to be saying maybe, or even, in a qualified way, yes. All the people you are defending are part of this group. Based on their actions and statements, they just don&#039;t seem like people I can count on to say no to shari&#039;a. And they have much more power than most of the rest of us.

It just seems like shari&#039;a is inevitable (though it may take fifty years before it happens), unless liberals and leftists give us a definite no.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am curious, Marion L. You agree that 9/11 was a direct hit on, among other things, women&#8217;s rights. So what are you doing to stop the relentless pressure on us to accept shari&#8217;a? Have you participated in a public demonstration against the plight of women in the Muslim world? Did you get enraged at the murder of Theo van Gogh and write an angry letter to the NY Times about it? Just what exactly are you doing?</p>
<p>Shari&#8217;a is something that should be impossible to impose on the West. Conservative Christians don&#8217;t want it, for obvious reasons. Libertarians don&#8217;t want it, because it is a restriction on people&#8217;s liberty. And liberals and leftists ought not to want it, because it is sexist and homophobic and anyway, most of them are secular.</p>
<p>Now the first two groups have given an unambiguous no to shari&#8217;a. They will fight to the death to oppose it. But the third group&#8217;s answer is in question. They seem to be saying maybe, or even, in a qualified way, yes. All the people you are defending are part of this group. Based on their actions and statements, they just don&#8217;t seem like people I can count on to say no to shari&#8217;a. And they have much more power than most of the rest of us.</p>
<p>It just seems like shari&#8217;a is inevitable (though it may take fifty years before it happens), unless liberals and leftists give us a definite no.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff P.</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/phyllischesler/2008/09/11/911-have-seven-years-really-passed/comment-page-1/#comment-6474</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff P.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Sep 2008 04:31:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/phyllischesler/2008/09/11/911-have-seven-years-really-passed/#comment-6474</guid>
		<description>Marion L: you see things through a very distorted prism that puts whatever you observe into a predetermined storyline; and you are a prisoner to your own words. Neither are reality, for reality is there for you to see in the words and actions of those who would celebrate the cutting of your throat, your anguished death in their hands.

Sad, very sad.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Marion L: you see things through a very distorted prism that puts whatever you observe into a predetermined storyline; and you are a prisoner to your own words. Neither are reality, for reality is there for you to see in the words and actions of those who would celebrate the cutting of your throat, your anguished death in their hands.</p>
<p>Sad, very sad.</p>
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		<title>By: Marion L</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/phyllischesler/2008/09/11/911-have-seven-years-really-passed/comment-page-1/#comment-6458</link>
		<dc:creator>Marion L</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Sep 2008 17:57:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/phyllischesler/2008/09/11/911-have-seven-years-really-passed/#comment-6458</guid>
		<description>Dear All:

Dr. Chesler has asked that each time I publish a critical response to one of her articles that I also publish a positive one.  OK - Here is my positive response for today:

I commend Dr. Chesler for being an engaged citizen and eloquent writer who is keenly interested in important issues.  I follow the Chesler Chronicles closely because Dr. Chesler is a veteran second wave feminist who is sincerely interested in human rights issues.  I acknowledge this even though we sometimes have strong disagreements.

I also agree that &quot;9/11 was a direct hit on democracy, modernity, religious pluralism, and women’s rights.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear All:</p>
<p>Dr. Chesler has asked that each time I publish a critical response to one of her articles that I also publish a positive one.  OK &#8211; Here is my positive response for today:</p>
<p>I commend Dr. Chesler for being an engaged citizen and eloquent writer who is keenly interested in important issues.  I follow the Chesler Chronicles closely because Dr. Chesler is a veteran second wave feminist who is sincerely interested in human rights issues.  I acknowledge this even though we sometimes have strong disagreements.</p>
<p>I also agree that &#8220;9/11 was a direct hit on democracy, modernity, religious pluralism, and women’s rights.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Marion L</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/phyllischesler/2008/09/11/911-have-seven-years-really-passed/comment-page-1/#comment-6455</link>
		<dc:creator>Marion L</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Sep 2008 16:30:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/phyllischesler/2008/09/11/911-have-seven-years-really-passed/#comment-6455</guid>
		<description>Dear Dr. Chesler:

To whom are you referring when you say that you 
&quot;hear Americans cursing America for the excesses of Abu Ghraib; the alleged “torture” and the absence of lawyering at Gitmo. . .&quot;

I follow this issue (the copiously documented human rights abuses at Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo) very closely, and I do not know of a single journalist, human rights attorney, human rights organization or civil liberties organization that has &quot;curse[ed] America&quot; in the course of criticizing these abuses.
And Newsflash Dr. Chesler: Even if one, a few, or many persons or organizations had engaged in this distasteful and counterproductive cursing, that does not discredit the efforts of concerned citizens to end these horrific abuses.  Please name specific persons or organizations who have &quot;curs[ed] America&quot; in this fashion.   If you cannot, then I think you should issue a retraction of this absurd claim.  To those who may be inclined to believe Dr. Chesler on this point, please ask yourselves the following questions:

Why would human rights attorneys jeopardize the defense of their clients at Guantanamo (and risk losing their licenses to practice law) by &quot;cursing America&quot; in a courtroom?

Why would a reputable human rights organization undermine its credibility by &quot;cursing America&quot; in its painstaking documentation of human rights abuses?

Why would a reputable journalist risk being fired by newspapers and shunned by TV news programs by &quot;cursing America&quot;?

To quote Barack Obama, we are entering &quot;silly season&quot; if we think that any of the persons or organizations cited in my questions would &quot;curse America&quot; and lose their credibility.

 The only cursing that you will see on the websites of reputable human rights organizations are verbatim accounts of innocent victims who have been cursed by their abusers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Dr. Chesler:</p>
<p>To whom are you referring when you say that you<br />
&#8220;hear Americans cursing America for the excesses of Abu Ghraib; the alleged “torture” and the absence of lawyering at Gitmo. . .&#8221;</p>
<p>I follow this issue (the copiously documented human rights abuses at Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo) very closely, and I do not know of a single journalist, human rights attorney, human rights organization or civil liberties organization that has &#8220;curse[ed] America&#8221; in the course of criticizing these abuses.<br />
And Newsflash Dr. Chesler: Even if one, a few, or many persons or organizations had engaged in this distasteful and counterproductive cursing, that does not discredit the efforts of concerned citizens to end these horrific abuses.  Please name specific persons or organizations who have &#8220;curs[ed] America&#8221; in this fashion.   If you cannot, then I think you should issue a retraction of this absurd claim.  To those who may be inclined to believe Dr. Chesler on this point, please ask yourselves the following questions:</p>
<p>Why would human rights attorneys jeopardize the defense of their clients at Guantanamo (and risk losing their licenses to practice law) by &#8220;cursing America&#8221; in a courtroom?</p>
<p>Why would a reputable human rights organization undermine its credibility by &#8220;cursing America&#8221; in its painstaking documentation of human rights abuses?</p>
<p>Why would a reputable journalist risk being fired by newspapers and shunned by TV news programs by &#8220;cursing America&#8221;?</p>
<p>To quote Barack Obama, we are entering &#8220;silly season&#8221; if we think that any of the persons or organizations cited in my questions would &#8220;curse America&#8221; and lose their credibility.</p>
<p> The only cursing that you will see on the websites of reputable human rights organizations are verbatim accounts of innocent victims who have been cursed by their abusers.</p>
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		<title>By: Deb</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/phyllischesler/2008/09/11/911-have-seven-years-really-passed/comment-page-1/#comment-6454</link>
		<dc:creator>Deb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Sep 2008 15:15:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/phyllischesler/2008/09/11/911-have-seven-years-really-passed/#comment-6454</guid>
		<description>While Cedarford makes cogent and rational points with regard to our precarious relationship with the oil-rich Arab countries the consequences of freezing assets, there are some solutions.  I don&#039;t think we should be reactive - we should be keep with us the knowledge that we will be attacked again and operate accordingly.

I&#039;m sure there are consequences and scenarios I haven&#039;t thought of for what I&#039;m about to propose, but I think this is the direction we need to take.

First, I think for sake of US sovereignty and national security, no one foreign national or no combination of foreign nationals should be allowed to own a controlling percentage of any business or stock.  With regard to real estate, I think background checks on foreign nationals who wish to purchase American real estate should be instated and a cap on what they can own should be utilized.

Second, when we are no longer dependent on oil, we will no longer be beholden to monsters and won&#039;t have to behave against our own principles to avoid catastrophes. 

The tragic attack of 9/11, beyond being a day of sadness, should serve as a constant reminder of the steps that must be taken to prevent this assault on our country from continuing to happen.  On 9/11 they did it with violence, everyday since they&#039;ve been doing it covertly through lawsuits, schools, indoctrination of Americans, and using our freedoms and political correctness against us.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While Cedarford makes cogent and rational points with regard to our precarious relationship with the oil-rich Arab countries the consequences of freezing assets, there are some solutions.  I don&#8217;t think we should be reactive &#8211; we should be keep with us the knowledge that we will be attacked again and operate accordingly.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m sure there are consequences and scenarios I haven&#8217;t thought of for what I&#8217;m about to propose, but I think this is the direction we need to take.</p>
<p>First, I think for sake of US sovereignty and national security, no one foreign national or no combination of foreign nationals should be allowed to own a controlling percentage of any business or stock.  With regard to real estate, I think background checks on foreign nationals who wish to purchase American real estate should be instated and a cap on what they can own should be utilized.</p>
<p>Second, when we are no longer dependent on oil, we will no longer be beholden to monsters and won&#8217;t have to behave against our own principles to avoid catastrophes. </p>
<p>The tragic attack of 9/11, beyond being a day of sadness, should serve as a constant reminder of the steps that must be taken to prevent this assault on our country from continuing to happen.  On 9/11 they did it with violence, everyday since they&#8217;ve been doing it covertly through lawsuits, schools, indoctrination of Americans, and using our freedoms and political correctness against us.</p>
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