149 Comments

1. George Jochnowitz:

A VIRTUAL DIALOG

Jihadists: Kill the Jews.

The Left. We understand you. You want an end to settlements.

Jihadists: Kill the Jews.

The Left: Of course. You want freedom of movement without checkpoints.

Jihadists: Kill the Jews.

The Left: How poetic your language is. You want an independent state.

Jihadists: Kill the Jews.

(This is also available on my website
under Music/Poetry.)

http://www.jochnowitz.net

Dec 31, 2008 - 12:43 pm 2. Dr S McCosker:

Kol hakavod to those friends of Zion in Boston who turned out in greater numbers than the Muslims! Way to go, people!

Has anyone heard whether there are any pro-Israel pro-Jewish demonstrations planned anywhere in Australia? I would like to know so that I can be there if at all possible.

Dec 31, 2008 - 1:22 pm 3. thegre8_1:

The only thing these savages understand is overwhelming force ie Hiroshima or Nagasaki. Not that Israel nukes Gaza but they must cripple them to the point that not another of those retarded Boy Scout built rockets is ever launched from Gaza again. Ground troops should have already been deployed and their prisoners should be treated like the Israelis in Mumbai were treated.

Dec 31, 2008 - 1:23 pm 4. Cybergeezer:

Catchy lyrics.
The intellectually capable shall overcome the intellectually frail or decrepit.

Dec 31, 2008 - 1:25 pm 5. DoubleTapper:

All we did was try to clean up the mess we made in 2005 when we left Hamas in charge of Gaza.
And yet some people have the ignorance to do this
How can we let this pass?
DoubleTapper
DoubleTapper@gmail.com
DoubleTapper, blogging on
Guns Politics Defense from Israel

Dec 31, 2008 - 1:36 pm 6. Norman Simms:

Thanks again, Phyllis.

All we can do–we being the little people who cannot make decisions or influence governments–is remain calm in our faith, determination to believe in what is true and just, and our commitment to support those good people who do make decisions and influence governments. We cannot give in to despair or fall into errors because of our frustrations

Norman

Dec 31, 2008 - 1:38 pm 7. Daddy-O:

May God bless Israel, and may He give them wisdom and strength against their enemies.

Dec 31, 2008 - 1:41 pm 8. Dr S McCosker:

A few suggestions about what to do.

1. Get in touch with the [non-Muslim] Indian Americans who protested against Jihad terror outside the UN. Make sure they & their folks know all about any pro-Israel demos being planned. This ought to mean that you will eventually have a solid phalanx of turbanned Sikhs – whose ancestors fought with deadly white fury against the Muslim invaders & occupiers of India – to stand along the flanks of your demonstrations. This might be particularly useful for any pro-Israel rallies in the UK, Canada & Australia & New Zealand. I assure you, the presence of Sikhs in full regalia will rattle the Muslims no end.

2. Things to do – PRAY. And SING, *loudly*. Before you start, decide on some appropriate Psalms, then read or chant them, as loudly and fervently as you can. Sing Ha-Tikvah, Jerusalem the Golden, even Hava Negilah. Dance the hora! Jews – teach your non-Jewish friends to sing your favourite songs. Islam HATES music and singing. Bring along a violin; bring along a tamborine and a trumpet. Rabbis – bring the shofar – sound it for FREEDOM for all oppressed dhimmis & victims of jihad everywhere. Christians – bring hand-bells, carry Bibles, wear crosses; everybody wear Stars of David; why? because under Islam, dhimmis of whatever faith are not permitted to pray, read their sacred books or display their sacred symbols in public in the sight of Muslims; under Islam, church bells could not be rung nor the shofar blown. So: make sure your demonstration flagrantly, loudly, joyfully is as Un-dhimmi as possible.

3. Suggestion for a placard for the Gentile supporters to carry, to rattle the Muslims – “I am a Gharqad tree’ (that is: the ‘tree of the Jews’ that, according to Muslim myth in the Hadith, is the only tree that *will not* betray the Jew behind it, to the Muslim murderers when they are trying to kill all the Jews). What that would say to the Muslims is this: here is a non-Jew who is prepared to step in between the Jews and the Jihad. If the Muslims encounter 100, 200, 300 non-Muslim non-Jews of all stripes each carrying a placard like that, they might get a salutary shock.

Dec 31, 2008 - 1:43 pm 9. Chris:

You’ve gotta find some video from the SF demo last night. Heard on local radio that it was to-die-for.

Dec 31, 2008 - 1:49 pm 10. m:

They really need to look up the word “genocide”. 90% of the deaths are Hamas members, who shouldn’t even be described as humans.

Dec 31, 2008 - 2:09 pm 11. ILikeIke:

The right wing is so tiresome…

Read those signs, you idiots. “For peaceful co-existence, stop Israeli apartheid.” “Stop the Gaza genocide.” That’s hate?

Using charged words like “apartheid” and “genocide” is certainly worthy of challenge, but evidence of hate? Fools.

Dec 31, 2008 - 2:41 pm 12. ILikeIke:

“90% of the deaths are Hamas members, who shouldn’t even be described as humans.”

Now that’s hate!

Dec 31, 2008 - 2:41 pm 13. kabud:

it is a good opportunity to take names and photos of enemy agents in USA

Dec 31, 2008 - 3:03 pm 14. Judy, NYC:

hamas is just the rotting branch of the maggot infested tree – the tree being worldwide terrorism.

these muslim scum have infiltrated our schools and everywhere, they are being given foot baths by hand, courtesy of the brits, japan, ostensibly because of the oil, does not know whether to sht, ps, or go blind when it comes to muslims.

america stands strong. i don’t care where this filth comes from, their supporters who show up to protest israel, are the same as those who just loved the germans (but only when they were nazis).

the point is, this is not a jewish problem. this is a worldwide problem for the west. if the urin-peoples had any courage instead of their abysmal cowardice, we could get rid of these miscreants once and for all.

why bother with surgical strikes, just carpet bomb them, and make sure no one is left alive. and any country who sides with them, hides them, or incites the shmucks, also gets destroyed.

not complicated. not a jewish problem. just falls to the jews to put them in the place muslims claim they want their bits and pieces to end up. go with allah, pallies and the rest of the dirtbags. and, here’s some advice – don’t put your asses up in the air today. not a good idea.

Dec 31, 2008 - 3:23 pm 15. ginsocal:

Sorry, Ike, but the (lame) protests have a goal: To stop a sovereign nation, which has been under attack for years, from defending itself. This would ultimately result in the destruction of that nation, which is also the goal of the attackers. Therfore, any attempt to stop Israel, whether in thought, word or deed, is nfact hate. Hatred for Jews. That makes you, as wellas the clowns protesting, anti-semitic douchebags. Might as well embrace it.

Dec 31, 2008 - 3:29 pm 16. Incitatus:

Read Constantine’s Sword and stop listening to the likes of Zbig and MSNBC.

Dec 31, 2008 - 3:35 pm 17. Donna V.:

“90% of the deaths are Hamas members, who shouldn’t even be described as humans.”

Now that’s hate!

Nah, that’s truth.

The first post by George J. has “ILikeIke” pegged to a T.

Dec 31, 2008 - 3:39 pm 18. ILikeIke:

Listen to yourself, ginsocal.

“any attempt to stop Israel, whether in thought, word or deed, is nfact hate.”

No, that’s not hate. This is hate:

Hate. Noun. 1) intense hostility and aversion usually deriving from fear, anger, or sense of injury 2) extreme dislike or antipathy.

I know, I know…that makes it sound like Israel hates the Palestinians. So what if they do? Israel obviously can do no wrong, and any attempt to stop them (or even criticize them) is anti-semitic lefty hate.

Please. Like I said…tiresome.

Dec 31, 2008 - 3:41 pm 19. bbloom:

Why don’t the police check the citizenship status of all demonstators? Of course some found the “religion of peace” in prison, and will no doubt go back there. Most are no doubt here on “student visas”,we educate them and they give back hate! Arresting them could foil the next terrorist attack here.
This scum should be deported. Wait, their own countries won’t take them. They have given them a fake nationality so that they can stay as boils on Israel’s a–.

Dec 31, 2008 - 3:47 pm 20. Steffie:

I recall reading somewhere that those Palestinians who were attempting to cross the border into Egypt were being shot at by Egyptian troops.If other Islamic nations refuse to house these people, yet will NOT raise a troop to oust Hamas, then their intention is pretty clear to me: down with Israel.

It is pretty sad there are so few willing to see that, but we must stand ready to defend our Israeli friends and neighbors and put the blame squarely where it belongs. I am hopeful a ground force will destroy every Hamas member and supporter, then perhaps the rest of the Middle East will understand that the Israelis have had enough.

Dec 31, 2008 - 3:57 pm 21. ILikeIke:

Donna V, you don’t even know me. But some guy wrote a song for Rush Limbaugh and you got me pegged?

Did I say tiresome? I meant tiresome AND ignorant.

Dec 31, 2008 - 4:06 pm 22. locomotivebreath1901:

Gaza was exchanged for peace. But Hamas doesn’t want peace. Neither does Hezbollah. Nor the PLO, or dozens of other islamist organizations sworn to Israel’s destruction.

“After conducting a public evening prayer service with a megaphone, the mob became more fervent and rageful, broke loose, began verbally and physically confronting the 50 pro-Israeli demonstrators.”

How often has this same pattern of ‘muslim outrage’ been played out time and time again over the flimsiest of excuses across the globe?

European capitals recoil in horror from repeated riots from these islamists who flood their borders, and now this ugly tide seeks to set up shop in the U.S. of A.

I do not fear violent assault and conquest from the Jews. It is more than reasonable (and reasonably demonstrated) to fear such violent assault and conquest from the islamists.

(Insert Santayana quote about condemned to repeat the past, here.)

Dec 31, 2008 - 4:20 pm 23. SAF:

Personally I think it is more amusing that the Israeli let tons of food and medical supplies and electricity go into Gaza which is ruled by people vowing to wipe Israel off the face of the map. The protesters are amusing, the Israelis are idiots.

Dec 31, 2008 - 4:24 pm 24. Anna:

Thank you Ms. Chesler. Your writing is always informed and passionate. As I read this piece, my mind was saying: “What are we to do?” Then came that very question from you. I am afraid for Jews in America and around the world. The media continually paints events in the Middle East as if Israel willy-nilly gets aggressive. Where is the coverage that they are a nation defending themselves. And now we have President-elect Obama just days away from taking office, promising to be sworn in by his full name (NOW it’s ok to use his middle name) as a sign to Muslim nations that they a friend in the White House. I fear we are headed for deepening trouble and I feel at a loss as I confront the fear and possibly scenarios that may well unfold in the new year.

Dec 31, 2008 - 4:32 pm 25. SAF:

Hey Anna:

Don’t fret about Obama he has selected Rahm Emanuel an Israeli and a Jew to be his chief of staff. And like Bernard Madoff he will protect Israel as well as Bernie protected his Jewish investors.

Dec 31, 2008 - 4:49 pm 26. Melody Caine Bier:

I was part of the counter protest in S.F. The pro-Hamas side shouted out every piece of vile filth & hatred that you can imagine.The usual suspects were there…even the Trots crawled out of their hole. The hatred for Jews, Israel & USA was so strong you could almost taste it.The police were of no help at all.They let them invade our barricade with lots of pushing & shoving but we gave it back…will never let them think we’re too afraid of the likes of them. We are beginning to lose our country…and this from me, a red-diaper baby. I am so ashamed at what has happened to the “left”.

Dec 31, 2008 - 4:50 pm 27. Smilla:

IlikeIke, you have defined hate very well but are very selective in your criticism. Did you watch the linked video? I think you will see that the pro-Palestinians, the shrouded woman shouting her crude insults for example, have hatefulness down to a tee. That’s if you have any common sense, BTW.

Dec 31, 2008 - 5:23 pm 28. lee:

How many of those pro Israel demonstrators voted for Barack Obama? The guy who said he’ll hold direct talks with the Iranian presient with a cup of tea?

Obama won’t betray Israel, he’ll respect their right to defend themsleves, but he has connection to questionable islamic figures, not to mention his support for “oppression” studies in schools. Remember his “let’s wait for the international community to respond and wait for a peaceful resolution without accusing anyone” neutral response to Russia’s attack on Georgia?

Dec 31, 2008 - 5:25 pm 29. Jay B:

11. ILikeIke:

The right wing is so tiresome…

Ike: leave the right out of this. Last I looked the vast majority of Jews were card carrying, leftist democrats. Don’t blame this garbage on us. All we have ever done is unconditionally support the ungrateful Israelis and their brethren in the US. Frankly, the right should abandon Israel. Israel is a stain on our reputation and American Jews are invariably the loudest, most obnoxious supporters of the leftist agenda. See how the Dems would support you if they didn’t have the cover provided by support from the right.

Dec 31, 2008 - 5:28 pm 30. Donna V.:

No, I don’t know you Ike, and thank God for that, because I live in a very progressive neighborhood and so I’m already acquainted with more than a few boneheads and jackasses. Why would I want to know one more? What is really tiresome is listening to morally blind and historically illiterate fools issue their routine condemnations everytime Israel defends itself against enemies bent on exterminating every Jew in the country. If Israel wanted to kill all the Palestinians, she could have done so long ago. If the Pals had Israel’s firepower and munitions at their disposal for a half hour, there would be a massive crater in the earth where Israel is in no time flat. (Which would undoubtably please you, since it’s one way of getting rid of a “tiresome” problem.) That most Palestinians would also die would not bother them – what would matter is that the hated Jews would be gone.

I must admit that my sympathy for the Pals is, well, pretty non-existent. It vanished forever on 9/11/01 when I saw Palestinians celebrating and cheering the attacks on America. And nothing they have done in the meantime – using Red Cross ambulances to smuggle arms, sending suicide bombers into Israel to blow up Passover Seders and school buses full of children, filling their own children with the most hateful anti-Semitism while all the while whining about their “oppression” – has changed my opinion in the slightest. I’ll stop thinking of them as vile savages when they start acting like human beings.

Dec 31, 2008 - 5:53 pm 31. Anna:

SAF – Regretably, you are among far too many that feel that someone such as Mr. Madoff represents all Jews. This is how it is for minorities and we feel it. If someone is an idiot, a jerk, a felon, etc and they are also black, Jewish, Hispanic, etc. those in the same demographic group all too quickly take on their wrongdoing as their own and feel shame and responsibility. There are all sort of folks in this world of various cultural and religious persuasions. Your sarcasm had a hateful undercurrent that is utterly unappreciated.

Dec 31, 2008 - 6:17 pm 32. Paul_Unalaska:

ILikeIke, pulls out the big guns and displays the word ‘Hate’ and its Dictionary description. hahahaha Let me guess? Sophomore or Junior Poly-Sci?

No resolve in your banter. Lucid meaning in your verbage. Only defiant, know-it-all smugness about a subject you clearly haven’t any concept, nor will to understand or grasp. Your, ‘The right wing is so tiresome’ nauseum. Wow, it sounds like you’ve ‘Seen and experienced everything’ eh? Dollars to donuts you haven’t begun to challenge yourself, thought, etc.,

To group an entire peoples life perspective into a dumbed down class is extremely ignorant. That’s not an opinion, Ike. It’s a dangerous thought process to possess. Suffice to say, you boast of it.

Would I do the same of the left, libertarian, unafilliated, etc.,? Of course not! I’m not a pleeb.

‘Those who think they, don’t know.
Those who know they don’t know.. know.’
-Rumi

Dec 31, 2008 - 6:17 pm 33. Cardin Drake:

Well, I sympathize mightily with Israel and their plight. When you neighbor is crazy, it makes you look bad too. But Jews in America abandoned Israel when they voted for Obama.
He is Carter all over again, and he is going to sell out Israel as soon as he gets in office. But I have other things to worry about besides Israel’s future. If American Jews don’t care about Israel, why should I?
We are going to have to make peace with the Muslim world, and if that means sacrificing Israel, well, not my problem.

Dec 31, 2008 - 6:32 pm 34. ILikeIke:

Donna, Before you say something stupid again…

You admit you don’t know me, but then lump me in with “boneheads and jackasses.”

I reiterate…you don’t know me. You can’t even say I’m a “morally blind and historically illiterate” fool.

I’ll stop thinking of you as a generalizing stereotyping simpleton when you stop acting like one.

Dec 31, 2008 - 6:50 pm 35. ILikeIke:

Paul_Unalaska doesn’t know me either, but that didn’t stop him from saying: “No resolve in your banter. Lucid meaning in your verbage. Only defiant, know-it-all smugness about a subject you clearly haven’t any concept, nor will to understand or grasp.”

Note to all the right wing tools on here:

Criticism of Israel is not the same thing as anti-semitism.

Dec 31, 2008 - 6:58 pm 36. MarkS:

Zionists are so delusional it’s scary. Yes, you guys are never wrong, you can control a country for decades, keep people in abject poverty so they have nothing to live for, kill men, woman and children – by the thousands – but when those people fight back, even with terrorist means – they’re the ones in the wrong. Get over it, this isn’t the way people work and never has been – you can find countless examples of people throughout history (including Jewish history) who have fought back when they were repressed.

What did you expect – they’d agree to live under those conditions for the last 60 years?

I’m Jewish – Orthodox – not Hasidic – and any rational person can see this goes completely against Jewish law (as so many Rabbi’s (Gedolei Yisroel) have said, even before the State was founded) and obviously against basic humanity. That’s why so many people and countries speak out against Israel and it’s actions and hypocritical policies. Israel doesn’t represent Judaism, but unfortunately they portray themselves as representing Jews and the media has a tough time (or doesn’t care) to make the distinction – that’s the only way they can somehow rationalize what they’ve done and the very existance of the State.

This constant claim that the whole world is antisemitic and the never ending milking/exploitation of the Holocaust to justify everything they do has grown so old, moldy and tiresome – people are really not interested and the whole thing has lost significant credibility – so keep whining about Muslims, Palestinians and Arabs all wanting to kills Jews everywhere and that they’re all anti-semitic, it’s worked wonders for you until now. The only reason that Arabs/Muslim world is so disgusted and hostile toward Jews is because of Israel – yes, pull out the old claims of how Arabs have always hated Jews – only the Zionists truly believe this idiotic perspective. For centuries, including in Palestine, Jews and Muslims co-existed and there was never the level of aggression between them which now exists and has been festering since the founding of the Zionist movement about 100 years ago. As a point of fact, the largest Jewish population in the Middle East (outside of Israel) is in Iran – you know – where that “Hitler II” runs the country, Ahmadinejad – yet the Jews live there in relative peace – not exterminated (thank G-d), despite all the anger toward Israel – do you really think the real Hitler would have allowed this? Come on people, I know you can’t except the truth because it would force you to face certain realities which you can’t accept – but do you have to delude yourselves to the point of being downright dumb? I guess so.

I also love the argument that anyone who tells Israel to back off is a “leftie” – yes, and when you tell Hamas to stop fighting and lay down their arms, I guess that makes you a “leftie” as well. What a stupid argument – the fact is, if you want peace you can’t do the numerous things which Israel does which are completely counter-productive and you certainly can’t get it by killing people (except I guess if you kill all the Palestinians – which unfortunately I’ve heard too many Zionists express behind closed doors – I guess that’s one way to get peace, but that’s also called genocide and Israel wouldn’t want consider something like that, not with the Holocaust being one of their prime justifications for existance – would they?)

Israel has never cared to make peace, nor act like a “democracy” – it’s not feasible under the circumstances, with 250,000 people living in illegal settlements and new ones popping up all the time. There are numerous reasons besides the settlements why Israel isn’t truly interested or even able to make peace, all within their control, but working against them, such as politically, pride, power, etc…

I’ll close on two items:

The first is about how “democratic” Israel is (this is actually quite funny, their claim of being a “democracy”) – the Palestinian population has a much higher birthrate then Israeli’s (plus all the Israeli’s who leave the country to go to America and elsewhere) – do you actually think that if the Arab population became the majority and wished to vote in an Arab Prime Minister that it would happen? Nope, I didn’t think so – that’s how democratic Israel is.

My final point…
Israel just brings misery to all Jews and Arabs – the ONLY way to make peace in the region is for Israel to stop being “Israel” and become a true democratic country, jointly governed by Palestinians and Jews. Zionists need to get over their paranoid, pathetic “we’re the victim” attitude and their belief that you can force people to except your will whether they like it or not – that’s not the way human beings work (this includes Arabs/Hamas for those that are too stupid to recognize them as human beings). Until that happens, it’s pretty clear that many more Jews and Palestinians will suffer and unfortunately likely die.

Dec 31, 2008 - 7:15 pm 37. Donna V.:

Ha! Ike hits back with “Neener,neener, neener,I know you are but what am I?” Why, you clever tyke, you!

Ike, a person who defends terrorists whose avowed aim is to exterminate every Jew in Israel, scum who deliberately target innocents and deliberately hide among civilians is surely a bonehead and a jackass in my book.

Once again, a leftist sides with the real haters, excuses the haters, and calls those who are not enamored of moral equivalency – yes, that’s right, folks – “haters.”

Yup, that’s what I call moral blindness alright.

Dec 31, 2008 - 7:49 pm 38. Ron J:

When good people, like the folks in Gaza, are led astray by their own leaders and their media, then unfortunately they have to suffer the consequences. They were given free elections and they elected thugs and criminals as their representatives. So be it. Now, at least for a generation or two, they must suffer. One day, when they are sick and tired of their children dying, maybe they will wise up. Until then, oh well…

Dec 31, 2008 - 8:02 pm 39. swift boater:

I am sure that the community organizer in chief, Barack Hussein Obama, must be very proud of the professional tactics used by the Jew, baby killers. Afterall, he personally trained quite a few of them.

Dec 31, 2008 - 8:04 pm 40. Bobal:

“I will stand with them (the muslims) should the political winds shift in an ugly direction.”

Obama, from his book

Dec 31, 2008 - 8:07 pm 41. Lifeofthemind:

Do not feed the troll

Dec 31, 2008 - 8:16 pm 42. Tom Jenkins:

Why is the reporting so one sided ? Hamas is the trouble maker with the rockets aimed at Isarel ? Can’t you defend yourself ?

Dec 31, 2008 - 8:18 pm 43. Tom Jenkins:

Self protection is normal.

Dec 31, 2008 - 8:19 pm 44. punditius:

Donna V: “I must admit that my sympathy for the Pals is, well, pretty non-existent. It vanished forever on 9/11/01 when I saw Palestinians celebrating and cheering the attacks on America.”

You said it, sister. That’s when I stopped worrying about the rights and wrongs of that benighted segment of the world. The Palestinian Arabs are the enemies of democracy, the enemies of freedom, and the enemies of America. Bush, bless his heart, thinks that they can be civilized. Personally, I doubt it.

These people have to either be rendered impotent, or killed, preferably the former, of course, but the latter seems more likely to me.

Dec 31, 2008 - 8:27 pm 45. SamIam:

Muhammadanism and leftism are the two great evils of this time which is why they flock together.

Dec 31, 2008 - 8:28 pm 46. Mike:

Ron J says: “When good people, like the folks in Gaza, are led astray by their own leaders…” What???? They voted Hamas into power. Led astray? I couldn’t care less about Israel or Palestine, but it’s pretty obvious who the bad guys are, despite the propaganda from the Islamicists. If they continue to attack Israel they should be destroyed, not coddled. Muslims killed every Jew and Christian on the Sinai Peninsula once they triumphed, back in the day. The favor should be returned.

Dec 31, 2008 - 8:32 pm 47. MarkJ:

ILikeIke,

I agree with everything you say.

Very truly yours,

Adolf Hitler

P.S. Can you please FedEx two pairs of asbestos underwear? It’s hotter down here than a Hamburg whore house on “Freebie Night.” Thanx.

Dec 31, 2008 - 8:33 pm 48. jim:

Islam is the enemy. Always has been. Always will be.

You cannot have peace with a rabid dog.

Dec 31, 2008 - 8:40 pm 49. megscole64:

ILikeIke…did you watch the video? Did you hear the woman scream that the people across the street need to burn in the ovens? That they needed bigger ovens?

If that isn’t hate I don’t know what is. The “protesters” are nothing more than evil Nazis with different uniforms. The message is the same. I realize we let Nazis have their marches and free speech but people usually make fun of them or have strong counter protests. Most people realize what douche bags they are and no amount of political correctness will make their message palatable.

So why must we be politically correct when addressing equally vile messages from these pro-Hamas, terrorist sympathizing, Islamo-Nazis?

If you can make excuses for their hatred and behavior I guess you would have just turned a blind eye to the round up and extermination of Jews in the 1930s Germany … after all, they deserved it right?

I’m sickened by all of this and can’t believe it is happening in the U.S.

Dec 31, 2008 - 9:07 pm 50. Hans Blix:

F*** those Hamas bastards…. I’m sorry, but I’ve just about had it with barbarians.

Dec 31, 2008 - 9:13 pm 51. jerry:

ILIKEIKE – Comments 11 & 12: You are only right when the signs are taken out of context. The pictures of “reasonable” signs can be easily matched against unreasonable (but funny signs) that you can find on Atlas Shrugs. One sign reads: “Kill all the Juice.”

Israel retains a technological edge. If it did not, all the Juice would indeed be dead. How do you feel about a nuclear Iran?

Dec 31, 2008 - 9:18 pm 52. Evil Pundit:

Here is the Palestinian reaction to the 9/11 attacks on the US.

Dec 31, 2008 - 9:21 pm 53. Louis Santacroce:

Why weren’t WE (myself included) demonstrating in support of Israel?

Dec 31, 2008 - 9:25 pm 54. ILikeIke:

Donna V, Please point out where I defend terrorists. Go ahead. Find it.

Sorry, dear, but that’s all in YOUR HEAD.

See, this is where the “you don’t know me” part comes in. Don’t assume that just because I disagree with YOU that I agree with Hamas.

My point is two fold:

A) Don’t whine about hate when your own heart is black with it. You may think that you’re justified in hating Palestinians, but I can assure that there’s a Palestinian who is just as smug in their own very similar hatred of Israel. Hate is hate, and no matter where it’s coming from it’s a BAD THING.

You ever heard the phrase: “Two sides of the same coin.” It’s applicable here.

B) Criticizing Israel is NOT anti-semitic. As a guy who genuinely wants peace in the Middle East, I’d like to see Israel try something else BESIDES flexing their military muscles. Not because my heart bleeds for the Palestinian cause, but because three decades of military engagement has NOT WORKED. (In fact, one can argue that it’s made things WORSE.)

But oh noooooo….if you point that out, you’re a terrorist-loving lefty pinko commie.

So when I say, “You don’t know me” I’m giving you an out. You can discuss the issue with me, or you can rail against the straw man you have pulled out of your own ass.

PS. To Mark J: Your little Hitler joke is lame. I Like Ike, if you might remember, was the slogan of Republican president (and Supreme Allied Commander during WWII) Dwight Eisenhower.

Dwight Eisenhower helped defeat Hitler. But then again…I don’t think you’d know that.

Dec 31, 2008 - 9:29 pm 55. Jeff:

Israel is not alone, despite the best efforts of the world. I, and my children, shall remain your friend and ally.

A man in Texas.

Dec 31, 2008 - 9:29 pm 56. Mike:

Thanks Ms. Chesler. Wonderful article. Doesn’t surprise me that these things don’t make the national news. For the same reason it doesn’t surprise me that ANSWER was involved. For those that don’t know about them they were organized some years back by Ramsey Clark and the Worker’s World Party. Some of their member organizations are the Party For Socialism and Liberation and the Partnership For Civil Justice. For those that don’t think that the left is antisemitic I don’t know what other proof you need.

By the way I am not 46. Mike: but I agree with what he says here.
—————————————-
By the way, I hope all you rich liberals out there are going to pay a bunch of taxes because Joe Biden said it’s your patriotic duty to do so and I am waiting for my share of the free stuff Obama promised me.

Dec 31, 2008 - 9:38 pm 57. jerry:

Regarding comment 36 by MarkS: You may have been an orthodox Jew, but you are no longer. If your views were accepted, then in the first week of a “single-state solution” the Jews would be butchered, exiled, or enslaved. Don’t you know about the Islamic idea of Dhimmi. Jews have tried living among Gentiles with variable results. As minorities their fate was not in their hands. Under great duress, the Jews have now built a state which is not a democracy, but is perhaps both better and worse. However, your conceptualizations are so simple-minded that they endanger not only Jews, but the world. Go and study. There are no simple answers. Seems to me that you haven’t even asked the right questions.

Dec 31, 2008 - 9:41 pm 58. Shef Rogers:

Is it just barely, theoretically possible that Israel might, now and then, actually be in the wrong?

Dec 31, 2008 - 9:44 pm 59. MarkS:

Hello – do you people even realize the sheer stupidity of what you’re saying?

Let me get this straight, America gives billions of dollars each year and virtually unequivocal UN Security Council support for Israel and completely ignores, blatent and explicit acts of injustice and the murder of Palestinians (making the US look like hypocrites on an unparalleled scale) and then you’re expecting the Palestinians to show solidarity or even compassion for the US on 9/11?

As stated – Zionists are completely delusional – not to mention intellectually and morally dishonest.

Dec 31, 2008 - 10:15 pm 60. Roger Godby:

Send the Israeli Defense Forces a pizza or burgers:
http://pizzaidf.org/Press.htm

Can one donate directly to the IDF to help them buy munitions?

Dec 31, 2008 - 10:19 pm 61. If 71% of Americans oppose it, then let the Jews die « Mark Epstein:

[...] of a declared terrorist organization. The first thing that immediately strikes the reader is the 71% figure which, if you’ve ever been to the Holocaust Museum in Washington D.C. is the exact percentage [...]

Dec 31, 2008 - 10:29 pm 62. About The Hamas Demonstrations « Jews Against Obama:

[...] Chesler has her own blog on the Pajamas Media web site, where she has recently written about the pro Hamas demonstrations [...]

Dec 31, 2008 - 10:55 pm 63. John Shade:

What part of “kill them wherever you find them” are all of you pro-muslim people missing?

momo started the cult of hate based on a hatred of jews, christians, zoristans, pagans, etc. Nothing, not a DAMN thing has changed in 1400+ years.

Accept islam for what it is- a political/social/private complete system of control that is based on supremacy.

The only way to have peace in the middle east, or the rest of the world is for islam to be put in it’s place, as a religion and not a complete system of control. This of course can never happen, because that is not what islam is. islam is not a religion.

The only difference between islam and nazism is one started 1400 years ago, the other started 80 years ago and was promptly stamped out once the world realized what it stood for.

Dec 31, 2008 - 11:53 pm 64. john from cinncinatti:

the arabs hate the jooz, oh ya and america, well i gotta be one of those gharquad trees. count me in… go Israel

Jan 1, 2009 - 12:03 am 65. Carmen:

To the person who doesn’t believe that anti-semitism is real: please go to memritv.org, a link between the us and the arab world.

Jan 1, 2009 - 12:11 am 66. Carmen:

Hitler and the Grand Mufti of jerusalem Al-Husseiny conspired together to kill millions of Jews. There is a radical organization here, the Islamic Shoura council. Last year a man was running a jihad training camp. He was deported, it wasn’t publicized, but there is a lot more going on with this group. They are constantly being monitored. They incite Jihad publicly like at the Holiday inn earlier this year. They told me I caused them a lot of problems, I said well, good. haha. THey invite speakers to the college campus to brainwash students. It’s working. One speaker was a member of a terrorist organization. None of the other students know about this, not even the faculty. They think I’m crazy, but everything that is hidden will be revealed. Jesus said that. He also said, “there will come a time when people will want to kill you and claim they are doing it for God.” Jesus rocks! He is da bomb! Jeeesus lover of my soul, Jeeesus, I will never let you goooo!

Jan 1, 2009 - 12:24 am 67. JM Hanes:

MarkS:

If you’re a Jew, I’m a Martian android. It’s the stupid talking points, stupid! They’re going to give you and your fellow apologists away every time, no matter how hard you try to dress ‘em up with a Rabbi here and a Zionist behind closed doors there.

Jan 1, 2009 - 12:24 am 68. Donna V.:

Ike, Since you’ve addressed me civilly, I will respond in kind. I too would like nothing better than a peaceful solution to this mess; however, it has not been the Israelis and their arms standing in the way of peace, but the Palis (and the encouragement they have received from the wider Arab world and from sympathetic Westerners) that causes this nightmare to continue.
Back in 1921, well before the founding of the Jewish state, Haji Amin al-Husaini was appointed Grand Mufti of Jerusalem by the British. Three weeks later, there were riots in Jaffa and 43 Jews were murdered. Other massacres of Jewish settlers occurred in the ’20’s and ’30’s. But the great majority of Hajj Amin’s victims were Arab moderates who lived peacefully with the Jews. Paul Johnson wrote in “A History of the Jews”: “Al-Husaini’s prime purpose was to silence moderation in Arab Palestine and he succeeded completely.,…, in due course, he made common cause with the Nazis and strongly supported Hitler’s Final Solution.” (I was aware that Eisenhower’s troops liberated Buchenwald and some of the other camps. Were you, a fan of Ike’s, aware that al-Husaini organized a Palestinian SS unit?)
As the historian Elie Kedourie has written “It was the Husainis who directed the political strategy of the Palestinians until 1947 and they led them to utter ruin.”

I bring up al-Husaini to show that Pali terrorism existed long before the creation of Israel, or the 6 Day War. The Palis have continued on that path ever since, embracing terrorism and a refusal to recognize Israel as a legitimate state. On the day of the signing of the 1993 Israel-PLO accords, Arafat spoke on Jordanian television and reassured his Palestinian audience that the agreement would be the first step “in the 1974 plan” – known by all Arabs as the “plan of phases” for the destruction of Israel. As we know, that “peace” was shattered in 2000 when the intifada broke out. And the intifada (in which Israel was blamed by the MSM for “massacres” like the one at Jenin, which never occurred) was stopped only when the Israelis built a defensive wall – which was roundly condemned by progressives of all nations. Two years ago, Israel turned over Gaza to the Palis. They elected Hamas. Hamas began launching missles into Israel, and all the while they located their own headquarters in areas heavily populated by civilians. Hamas did not hestitate to kill Israeli civilians, but they certainly banked on Israeli reluctance to respond in kind.
So I ask: how on earth do you deal with an enemy whose only wish is to see you dead? The Israelis have negotiated time and time again, only to be double-crossed by people who do not want a two-state solution. Hamas of 2009 is no different than Haji Amin al-Husaini of 1921 – they have the same Jew hatred, the same desire to drive the Jews into the sea.
A few more questions:
Why is Israel held to standards no other people (certainly not the Palis)are held to? Why are Israeli lives so much cheaper than everybody else’s? The Palis have been receiving masses of international aid since 1967 (some of it from American taxpayers) – so, what are they doing with it? What industries and businesses have they built? Why are they still sitting in crappy refugee camps like human title deeds, waiting for the Jews to be tossed into the sea? WWII created many millions of refugees – none of them still live in camps, waiting to return to their ancestral homes in Poland or the Czech Republic. Hell, 500,000 Sephardic Jews were kicked out of their homes in Arab countries when Israel was founded. (I know a man whose family had lived in Egypt since the Jews were expelled from Spain in 1492. They were booted out in 1956 with $50 to their name.) Israel absorbed most of those refugees. The Arab states prefer to keep the Palis squatting in camps. After all, Arabs united in hatred of Israel draw attention away from the lack of democracy and freedom in Arab countries.
The Palis have been indoctinated in hatred of Israel since the day they were born. Parents dress up toddlers in suicide bomber get-ups. Men and women who blow themselves up become “martyrs” and heroes if they manage to take a few Israelis with them. How on earth can anybody reason with such a mindset and why are the Israelis expected to? No, there is no moral equivalence here, Ike.

Jan 1, 2009 - 1:19 am 69. MarkS:

Jerry (#57), that’s the best response you could come up with to my posting – basically some juvenile insults and the same old blather about how Arabs just want to kill all Jews?

Honestly, you’re ignorance of history and the situation is matched only by your blindness to reality.

For your edification, I literally just stumbled across an editorial in the New York Times which, although Pro-Israel in tone, specifically touched on one of the points I made above regarding the population growth of Arabs in Israel and the fact that they will outnumber Jews at the current rate. Of course this is a well known issue and has been observed in countless places – once again I ask, do you really think the “democratic” State of Israel will allow democracy to occur when the Arab population can vote in their own PM?

The bottom line, if the State of Israel issue is not resolved peacefully, it will likely be resolved violently and many people, G-d forbid, may die, Jews and Non-Jews (you might want to check that NYTimes editorial, it’s online).

If you think Israel can’t lose because they have nukes, that’s a very quick way to lose – underestimate the other side (Military Strategy 101, never underestimate the opposition), remember Lebanon?

Jan 1, 2009 - 1:29 am 70. Donna V.:

JM Hanes: I rather doubt that MarkS is Jewish too, but, hey, it could be. Just as America produces people who hate America, so there are self-hating Jews. In WWII, there were called “Kapos.”

Jan 1, 2009 - 1:35 am 71. MarkS:

JM, I guess you’re a Martian android – how’s the weather on Mars this time of year?

Just stating things as they are – unfortunately sometimes the truth hurts and people don’t like to face reality.

Jan 1, 2009 - 1:38 am 72. SAF:

Anna:

I am sorry you missed my point which is this:

1. The Israelis should defend themselves by all means necessary
2. They haven’t done this as of now, current hostilities included (see my post 23 in this blog)
3. Just ask the 4 year old in Sidrot who lost his legs to a Qasam how well the Israeli government is doing their job
4. Despite the reign of missiles from Gaza the Israelis still provide food, medicine and electricity which is pure idiocy.
5. This war will not end quickly fought as it is
6. There will always be protesters and countries demanding Israel not defend herself properly and they have been successful at it
7. Obama was sold to American Jewry as a friend of Israel
8. Rahm Emanuel was and is held up as proof that Obama is serious about defending Israel
9. My point about Madoff is simply that just because Emanuel is an Israeli Jew does not mean he will do the right thing for Israel

Jan 1, 2009 - 1:58 am 73. MarkS:

Donna, very original – the old “self hating Jew” tag.

Let’s see now, a Jew takes a position against the State of Israel – you can’t really call him anti-semitic since he’s Jewish so you just call him a self-hating Jew, that explains everything – very bright.

Wouldn’t want to address the issues – nah, that would be too difficult.

I only stated the fact that I was Jewish to indicate that I don’t take my position out of self-interest, as a Palestinian or Arab might be accused of doing. I feel no particular motivation to try and prove I’m Jewish – I am, you can rationalize that I’m not – whatever makes you happy.

The fact remains that Zionism goes contrary to fundamental Jewish beliefs and the absurd actions and positions the State of Israel takes and the resulting lives that have been lost due to them speak for themselves.

Zionists seem to like ignoring the very large pink elephant in the very small room – if there wasn’t so much at stake it would be laughable. You guys are so predictable (and brainwashed).

Jan 1, 2009 - 2:49 am 74. djr:

Looks like tough times for those of us that choose to live by mind (Israel and most westerners).

I have a pretty toxic idea, if things ever go bad in Israel, and if they ever go bad in USA’s housing market. Invite them here to buy up our glut of housing. Sort of addresses 2 of 3 problems: tamps down housing over-stocks; gives the Israelis a [hopefully] freer / safer home while adding talent / productivity into our nation. It does pose a big problem for Israelis that are unwilling to abandon the land.

If this crazy idea ever did go forward, the icing on the cake would be for the Israelis to level their properties left behind, leaving a nice calling card for the surrounding mobs that hated them.

Jan 1, 2009 - 4:58 am 75. piggle:

The Muslims and the Left hate Israel because it shows that you can stand up to bullies, you can fight back when you are endlessly (and senselessly) attacked.

But does anyone think these scummy people will be happy if the Jewish people should be wiped out? No, of course they won’t be. The Muslims and the Left are only happy when they are making trouble.

Should Israel go there will be another cause to be attacked and hated. Those rockets and AK47s and all the attendant hatred will merely be pointed elsewhere.

Jan 1, 2009 - 5:13 am 76. » Imagine an Unruly Mob of Christians…:

[...] to Chesler Chronicles for providing the YouTube link and some good [...]

Jan 1, 2009 - 5:41 am 77. Andre:

Here is what’s going to happen. HAMAS will eventually cry uncle and accept a “truce”. Israel will suspend military operation against the terrorist “nation” of Palestine, Hamas will declare it a victory for islam and use the “truce” to regroup and rearm via the “peace and love” tunnels running under the Egyptian border, once rearmed HAMAS will recommence lobbing rockets into Israel, and Israel will be forced to deal with this S H I T all over again.

Jan 1, 2009 - 6:29 am 78. Joshua Sharf:

Sadly, here in Denver, too.

Jan 1, 2009 - 6:35 am 79. Stupid:

MarkS, you made the comment, “Israel has never cared to make peace, nor act like a ‘democracy.’”

How does the environment come into your logic that the Zionists are delusional? People can breed, breed and breed some more. With each individual person having equal rights in a democratic government system it benefits the greater good of the society. However, there are already 1.4 times more people on this earth than the earth’s carrying capacity. Do the math and it works out that at least 30% of the world’s population CANNOT CONTINUE TO EXIST.

If there is no change to the present status quo to human breeding, due to the lag effect of a few decades of the human impact on our environmental systems (and not even centuries!), the entire human race will probably be annihilated by a mass extinction of species on earth (no less in scale to the one that was experienced when the dinosaurs died out).

The only way to change this status quo is to abandon the concept of a democracy as it is presently known. A democracy pretty much reduces a society to quantity rather than quality. To me it is very clear that it is time to SERIOUSLY look at reducing the quantities of people. But how do you do it without compromising the rights of each and every single individual person? Who gets to say whether me or my neighbor may have children? There is no way of getting out of this tough dilemma other than to start making some radical changes in our way of thinking.

I don’t care whether Israel fights or implements apartheid for the greater good of our “global society” until the Americans – the champions of the democracy – can come up with a better governing system. But out, otherwise.

Jan 1, 2009 - 7:16 am 80. George Hussein:

The Palestinians only want peace. A piece of Israel, a piece of Europe, a piece of America, a piece of the whole world. Only a piece of the world pie. Just roll over and play dead. That’s all they want. In return, they will give you nothing but heartache and trouble.

Jan 1, 2009 - 7:38 am 81. Thomas:

MarkS and similar views:
It’s a grave mistake to consider the Jewish people as a homogeneous tribe who shares common political values.
To understand their world view one must revisit the word “kapo” – as Donna V has correctly stated.
(Dictionary: a Nazi concentration camp prisoner who was given privileges in return for supervising prisoner work gangs: often a common criminal and frequently brutal to fellow inmates.)

There are many individual and groups which are hell bent on the extermination of the fellow Jews either political or religious reason: Naturei Karta, Satmar ultra orthodox Jews support Iran and openly advocating the dissolution of Israel regardless of the dire consequences for themselves. You can see them at every anti-Israel protest hating themselves and praising Palestine murderers.

The other pernicious and larger crowd is the Bolshevik Jews driven by Marxist agenda according which Jewish nationalism and religion is bourgeois imperialism and must be destroyed. Liberal-fascism and Islamo-fascism now are strong allies worldwide: the word “KAPO” was invented and applied ONLY to these type of Jews because of their large number and preponderance on the political scene even today.

Jan 1, 2009 - 8:05 am 82. Saltherring:

Thank God for for His gifts to mankind; the Savior, Jesus Christ, and the Bible, which tells us who ultimately wins the battle between the forces of good (God) and evil (Satan). All the Satanic might the world can bring against Israel will ultimately fail. It is written. Please pray for Israel

Jan 1, 2009 - 9:10 am 83. Eric:

All Muslim immigration to the West should be stopped. Their tendency toward violence should be contained to their countries. If they destroy themselves, so what.

Jan 1, 2009 - 9:45 am 84. lgkick:

Again and again criticizing Israel is equated with the hatred of jews. This is just nonsense. Attacks by Israel against Hamas is one of the last desparate measures by the zionists. They think if Hamas is gone, palestinians will submit to the humiliation and occupation of their land by the Israelis. There was no Hamas 10 years ago but unjust Israeli policies led to the creation and enhancement of Hamas. This means even if you win this war (which is unlikely) and destroy Hamas completely you have managed to retrun things to 10 years ago, a state that was not so peaceful anyways.

If the fulfillment of your dreams means destroying other people’s life and ocuppying their lands, killing their children and starving them, then you need to revisit your dreams. Maybe your ancestors were wrong and their dreams are not worth destroying the world for. Just think about it.

Jan 1, 2009 - 10:09 am 85. ILikeIke:

Donna V asks: “how on earth do you deal with an enemy whose only wish is to see you dead?”

That’s a tough question indeed, and I suppose there are some Palestinians who are asking themselves the same thing. And while you and I know that Israel doesn’t want to kill all the Palestinians, it’s hard to convince a Palestinian of that when they hear Israeli jets overhead and threats of a ground invasion on TV.

I’d urge anyone away from simplistic views of the conflict, such as “their only wish is to see you dead.” Is that so? There’s no other wishes floating around out there? It’s very rare that people act under a single motivation towards a single purpose.

There is no doubt that Hamas is dedicated to the destruction of Israel, and thereby Israel should be dedicated to the destruction of Hamas. But then what?

How is Israel going to prevent another Hamas-like organization from springing up in the refugee camps? Because you know it will. Given the choice between living as stateless refugees or dying as resistance fighters, it’s only logical that many would choose the latter. (It’s better to die on your feet than live on your knees, as they say.)

I think they need to be given better choices. Forcing them to choose between two evils only ensures that EVIL WILL PERSIST.

Jan 1, 2009 - 11:08 am 86. Mary Madigan:

What we are looking at here is very clear. The long-term Saudi funding of mosques and Middle East Institutes in America

Saudis are also funding “anti-war” groups like ANSWER.

The Muslim Brotherhood and their front organization in America, the Muslim Students Association (MSA), is responsible for managing Saudi donations to terror organizations (al Qaeda, Hamas, etc.) and peace groups worldwide. The Brotherhood’s official site, ikhwan.tv, regularly asks for reader donations for these “peace” marches.

In a recent “action alert” the Brotherhood’s ikhwan.tv is asking their followers to “Hold a teach-in, seminar, public dialogue, documentary film viewing etc. this is straightforward: you need to decide venue, nature, if any speakers, and do some publicity (the internet helps)”

Good work, ILikeIke and MarkS!

On their website, the Muslim brotherhood also expresses solidarity with the genocidal government of the Sudan:

Muslim Brotherhood denounced the genocide charges filed by the prosecutor of the International Criminal Court against Sudanese President Omar Al-Bashir on Monday.
In the statement signed by MB Chairman Mahdi Akef, he emphasized MB”s condemnation of the decision, considering it “interference in Sudan”s internal affairs and violation of its sovereignty.”
The statement called on the Arab League to sponsor an exceptional summit of Arab presidents, kings, and leaders to unite in solidarity with Sudan. Further, it called on Egypt to assume its leading role at all international organizations to defend the Sudan, the strategic neighbor of Egypt.

So, ILikeIke and MarkS, why don’t pro-Palestinian and “peace” groups ever speak out against the genocide in the Sudan? Because your ikhwan and Saudi donors would be peeved, or just because you’re all on the same side? Talk about living on your knees.

Jan 1, 2009 - 12:03 pm 87. Anna:

72 SAF

Re-read the post I had originally responded to and wondered if I had misinterpreted. Thanks for the itemized list! Though I feel like a bit of an idiotic to have inspired such a listing, it’s actually quite good and gets right to the point.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Per you list: Right on, each and every point.

Jan 1, 2009 - 12:58 pm 88. Anonymous:

This comment probably won’t get posted, but if I were in fort lauderdale, I would have opened up on that crowd with an automatic weapon, and I would have creamed myself while doing so. For every drop of muslim and “palestinian” blood that hits the ground, the world is made a better place. No fouler creatures have ever trodden on the beautiful face of mother earth than the depraved beasts known as muslims, and no subsect of the muslims is more abhorrent, disgusting, deceitful and twisted, than the “palestinians”

Israel isn’t targeting civilians, BUT THEY SHOULD BE

KILL THEM ALL

Jan 1, 2009 - 1:17 pm 89. Dr. Kari Ann Owen, Ph.D.:

Israel’s response to Hamas’ attacks on defenseless civilians is an act of legitimate self-defense, and surely there should be protests against the slaughter of Jewish civilians, as there should be protests against the slaughter of human beings anywhere.

The Quran itself so states, and what is conceivably most tragic in this situation is the murder of merciful Islam by fanatics who seem to worship death and not Allah.

The burgeoning tragedy in the Middle East is essentially a tragedy of the world’s refusal to accept the Jewish people as legitimate, worthy of existence. It is a monstrous failure of empathy, of generations of failure by European, Middle Eastern and American powers that either turned their backs to the slaughter or promulgated it.

Please see my article, “Terror is Not Islam”, to see the light which is being betrayed, perhaps extinguished by fanatics.

My grief is personal and profound, and encompasses all involved.

Jan 1, 2009 - 1:26 pm 90. Evil Otto:

“There was no Hamas 10 years ago but unjust Israeli policies led to the creation and enhancement of Hamas.”

What are you talking about, lgkick? Hamas was founded in 1987. That’s over twenty years ago. Get your facts straight.

Above, you say “Again and again criticizing Israel is equated with the hatred of jews. This is just nonsense,” but I’ve argued with enough people on this issue over the years to see that about half the time the “criticism of Zionism isn’t hatred of Jews” argument is a mask for fierce antisemitism. I can usually tell because the person making that argument makes no criticism whatsoever of the Palestinians, instead portraying them as poor innocents. They also refuse, as you do, to even admit that the nation of Israel has just as much right to exist as any other.

Where is your criticism of the Palestinians, lgkick? Come on, show how balanced your views are.

Jan 1, 2009 - 1:29 pm 91. Donna V.:

Ike wrote:

I’d urge anyone away from simplistic views of the conflict, such as “their only wish is to see you dead.” Is that so? There’s no other wishes floating around out there? It’s very rare that people act under a single motivation towards a single purpose.

True, but irrelevant for all practical purposes. There were Germans in 1944 who were not Nazis and tried to help Jews – they were brave and admirable people but statistically insignificant, particularly in a non-democratic system where the only safe opinion to express was the Nazi Party line. There are outliers in any given group of people (see MarkS, above). It’s not simplistic to make general statements about a population though. (Ike, I remind you your first comment in this thread makes some pretty sweeping statements about “right-wing fools” so don’t tell me you are immune to making generalizations.) The Palis of Gaza elected Hamas, which indicates that most of them approve of Hamas’ refusal to recognize the state of Israel and the methods Hamas employs. They chose Hamas and now they are suffering the consequences.

That’s a tough question indeed, and I suppose there are some Palestinians who are asking themselves the same thing.

Except that Palestinians turn up at Israeli hospitals for medical treatment – and they get it. That’s something you wouldn’t do if you were really convinced the Israelis were out to kill you. As SAF has noted, the Israelis are providing the Palis with electricity, medicine, food, water and clothing, even as they bomb Gaza. And the Israelis never get any credit for that, although the Palestinians would never, ever render the same services to Jews if the shoe was on the other foot. As I noted earlier, if the Palestinians laid down their weapons, they would have their own state. If the Israelis laid down their weapons, they would be instantly wiped off the face of the earth.

How is Israel going to prevent another Hamas-like organization from springing up in the refugee camps? Because you know it will. Given the choice between living as stateless refugees or dying as resistance fighters, it’s only logical that many would choose the latter.

You just assume that Palestinians have no other choices and no control at all over their own destiny. But they do. If the Palis really wanted a two state solution, they could have used the aid money received from the UN and the West (including us) to build businesses, infrastructure, etc. They certainly had the chance to do so in the ’90’s. But, as Moshe Dayan noted, the Palis never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity. Millions of dollars ended up in Arafat’s bank account (his wife lives in high style in Paris). The money that could have been used for roads and schools was spent on bombs and weapons instead.

But then, the business of actually creating a viable society is boring compared to the glamour of being a “brave resistance fighter” a hero with a guaranteed slot in Paradise if one kills Jews. (Consider this: the median age of the West Bank population is 15. 15 year olds who have been been raised in the cult of violent Islamic martyrdom and rabid Jew hatred.) Reaching for the AK-47 and the bomb belt is certainly more attractive to these kids than the mundane business of going to school and learning a useful trade. But it’s a mistake to think that terrorism is the only choice they have. They’ve rejected other choices because other choices would mean they’d have to let go of their great dream of ridding Israel of Jews.

The Palis have been making awful, self-destructive choices for decades – and then they whine and cry and complain to sympathetic Westerners when they have to pay the consequences of those terrible choices. Those same Westerners – who think “freedom fighters” are romantic, at least when it’s someone else’s kids being blown up – act as if the Palis have no other choice.

Positive change will come in the Middle East when the world starts treating the Palestinians like morally cupable adults who bear responsiblity for their fate and their choices. Needless to say, I am not going to hold my breath waiting for that to happen.

Jan 1, 2009 - 1:53 pm 92. MarkS:

Thomas (#81), let me be clear, you’re a fool. To suggest that practicing Jews (Neturei Karta, Satmar, etc…) are “hell bent on the extermination of the fellow Jews” pretty much says it all. These are people who care deeply about their fellow Jews and the religion and if Zionists would focus on the religion which they so exhaustively claim they belong to, countless Jewish and Arab lives wouldn’t have been lost as a result of the State. Judaism is not about controlling the land, it’s about following the beliefs of the religion – controlling the land is not the main aspect – ever hear of G-d perhaps?? Zionists obviously only care about the religion as much as they can milk it to justify cold-blooded murder – Neturei Karta, Satmar, etc… make it very clear that people should not confuse Zionism with Judaism because the two have nothing to do with each other. If Zionism couldn’t exploit Judaism they wouldn’t have anything upon which to base their actions. Get rid of Zionism and you get rid of the problem. Only a narrow-minded brainwashed fool truly believes that practicing Jews want to “exterminate other Jews”. How Jewish are the Zionists which run the country – when was the last time you think most members of the knesset had a kosher meal?? Yes, these criminals are so deeply religious and care so much about their fellow Jews and Judaism. As I said – you’re a fool.

I would recommend you read Perfidy, written by a Zionist (Ben Hecht), which discusses the details of a well known Israeli court case about the dealings of the early founding Zionists of the State and the Nazi’s. While you’re in denial – let me be clear that this isn’t some conspiracy nonsense – the book was banned in Israel during the 70’s (isn’t a democracy wonderful) and its accuracy is not in dispute (except maybe by people who can’t handle the reality of what Zionism really is).

Another great example of how deeply Zionists feel for their fellow Jews – Ben Gurion (yemach shemo) has a famous quote in which he publicly says that it is better for their to be cows in Israel than the poor European Jews who would only be a drain on it – this while the Jews were being slaughtered by the Nazi’s.
Now, let’s revisit the question again – who cares about exterminating Jews? Correct, Zionists – if that’s what it takes to maintain control of the land, then that’s the priority.

The “Self hating Jew” comment – love it – it makes no sense, but is the best explanation Zionists can come up with. You probably have no idea how absurd it sounds, but go with it – any rational person can see how counter-intuitive it is.

Zionists aren’t self hating Jews (especially since many aren’t Jews to begin with – there are so many nutcase fundamentalist Christians out there, they’re almost worse than the Zionist “Jews”) – as mentioned Zionists only care about the State, not their fellow Jew, not peace…nothing, except controlling the land.

Your Bush approach to conflict resolution, “they are our enemy so we won’t talk to them” did wonders for the US.

Jan 1, 2009 - 2:05 pm 93. Donna V.:

MarkS wrote;
Donna, very original – the old “self hating Jew” tag.

Well, duh, moron, of course it’s not an orginal insight. That’s because you’re very far from being the first, or the only, self-hating Jew around (Karl Marx is the most prominent example.) They exist even in Israel, just as there are no shortage of anti-American Americans.

You have some weird desire to bare your throat for the executioner in order to make his job a little easier. The Palis and much of the rest of the world appreciate good submissive little Jews like you. Thankfully, most Israelis have stronger survival instincts.

Jan 1, 2009 - 2:10 pm 94. MarkS:

#88, Thanks for making my point – at least you’re honest about you’re extreme Zionist views – and it’s a fairly accurate representation of what drives many Zionists – as long as they control the land, who care how many people (Jews and Arab) get kills.

To Mary (#86) – while I find any form of genocide reprehensible (those in Europe over the centuries, as well more recently in the baltic states and certainly in Africa) – when it is supported by Muslims it doesn’t make it any better. I can’t respond to the Sudan related comments since I’m simply not familiar with – you may be absolutely correct. I can comment on the situation in Israel, as it is an area I care about it and am very familiar with – hence I’m picking my battles and focusing on what I do understand.

#89 – not much to say to your comments – you’re obviously proud of your doctorate and title and probably think it gives you some extra credibility, but nonsense is still nonsense – it’s just sadder when it comes from someone who thinks they know something. While there’s obviously a long history of antisemitism in the world and many people’s inability to accept the existance of the Jewish people – that’s clearly not the situation with Zionism and Israel – you might want to learn a little more about the whole situation before you try to write anything about it. Zionism is a new phenomena (historically speaking, since the Jews went into exile about 2000 years ago) started about 100 years ago and is obviously an antagonistic movement whose sole purpose is to control the land (look up the definition of the term “Zionism” if you doubt this). That’s the cause of this problem and getting rid of Zionism (or the State in this case) is the solution – an equatable representation of Palestinians in the government is the only solution which will defuse the situation and resolve the issue – unfortunately it means that the dream by Zionists of controlling the land will no longer exist. It’s an admittedly straightforward solution, but then again, the cause of the problem is equally straightforward. The people who have a problem with it tend to be naive/simple-minded (more extreme versions are fools or simply stupid), paranoid or have an agenda or bias (Zionists) for which a resolution requiring losing the dream of the State is unacceptable – I see people representing each of these 3 categories among the posts here.

Jan 1, 2009 - 2:39 pm 95. MarkS:

Donna – you’re always full of insight – clearly whenever someone goes contrary to their own groups views they must be self hating. You’re a real genius. Keep posting, I enjoy the comedy relief.

Jan 1, 2009 - 2:42 pm 96. Mike:

73. MarkS:
“The fact remains that Zionism goes contrary to fundamental Jewish beliefs and the absurd actions and positions the State of Israel takes and the resulting lives that have been lost due to them speak for themselves.”

So tell us MarkS, how exactly does Zionism go contrary to fundamental Jewish beliefs?
——————————————-
By the way, I hope all you rich liberals out there are going to pay a bunch of taxes because Joe Biden said it’s your patriotic duty to do so and I am waiting for my share of the free stuff Obama promised me.

Jan 1, 2009 - 2:54 pm 97. Philip L:

The “Religion of Peace” strikes again. And look! They brought their loony left buddies too!

Jan 1, 2009 - 3:07 pm 98. Donna V.:

Markie, that’s nothing compared to the comedy you’re providing me as you puke and spew all over this thread. If you really are Jewish, little kapo, you are certainly proving that we can not make generalizations about people – you’re doing a grand job of refuting the common notion that all Jews are intelligent.

Really, if you’re so indigant about the evil Zionists, why don’t you go to the Middle East and hook up with crazy Cynthia “Pirate” McKinney? Or you could make like Rachel “St. Pancake” Corrie. One more flattened tool would be no loss to the planet.

Jan 1, 2009 - 3:13 pm 99. Rubicon:

Somehow I seriously doubt there will be a line of good little subservients who go to their deaths at the beheats of the government, no matter which government. Jews tried obeying once before & look what it got them!all of this.
Go hate the left & those ethnic groups who supported leftist politicians.

Jan 1, 2009 - 3:38 pm 100. Stupid:

The comments by MarkS are extremely disturbing. The “admittedly straightforward solution” that he proposes will pan out in reality to the extermination of the Jews in Israel. I just don’t think he could be bothered with the mild irritation of having a conflict anymore. Don’t EVER give up this fight because you CAN win it.

I am neither Jewish nor Palestinian. I am a white South African. We white South Africans were, to use the words of MarkS, “naive/simple-minded (more extreme versions are fools or simply stupid), paranoid or had an agenda or bias.” Consequently, in 1992 a 68% majority of white South Africans voted to end apartheid in South Africa. The transition was thankfully without violence.

Since the new democratic government was elected in 1994, there have been thousands of murders of white farmers in South Africa that have been classified as genocide by Dr. Gregory H. Stanton (who heads Genocide Watch). The murders are often associated with incredibly brutal acts of torture and rape. The victims include children and the elderly. These acts of genocide have rarely been reported in the media in the rest of the world and not even much in South Africa.

South Africa has recently been rated as one of the top 20 most dangerous countries in the world. We have become known as the murder and rape capital of the world. Statistically a woman has a greater chance of being raped than learning to read.

Don’t give in to the pressure of these intellectuals, like MarkS, that live in a world of theory. That was the mistake we made. Get clear on what you need for the Jewish people and FIGHT! Align your politics, principles and religion. I pray for you that you may succeed where we did not. I pray that you will keep your state and that you can continue to dictate the terms of how you want to live your lives. You don’t know what you had until it’s lost. There is no theory that can prepare you for that loss!

Jan 1, 2009 - 5:02 pm 101. Thomas:

Donna V:
The leftist Jews are mostly secular and anti-religious so this MarkS strong religious reference makes me think that he might belong to the anti-Israel Naturei Karta/Satmar lunatic sect living off on donations for they seldom work. This guy is an Adam Shapiro material and you can find many like him at: http://www.masada2000 self-loathing Jews listing.

MarkS: thank you for your lecturing but I am Eastern European where Herzl was born along with the Satmar sect and were the tragic saga of the Jewish people unfolded. I know more about the subject than the Galut kapos like you ever dreamed of.
They are called as “Ghetto Jews”.

“There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Hamlet. ACT I Scene 5.”

Jan 1, 2009 - 5:05 pm 102. JM Hanes:

MarkS:

It’s not that you “take a position against the state of Israel,” it’s that you spout Iranian mumbo-jumbo to defend it.

ILikeIke:

“Given the choice between living as stateless refugees or dying as resistance fighters, it’s only logical that many would choose the latter.”

When the Israelis left Gaza it was only logical that the Palestinians would utilize the infrastructure the Israelis put in place. Nevertheless, they chose to blow up every productive facility the Israelis left behind. I would “urge you away” from superficial bromides like “it’s only logical” which simply serve to demonstrate that there are whole dimensions to this conflict that you simply don’t, or won’t, get. Admonishments like yours are almost invariably the prelude to selections from the Revised Standard List of Root Causes which we are apparently expected to believe that Hamas is really complaining about when they say they want to wipe Israel off the face of the earth.

Jan 1, 2009 - 5:12 pm 103. cubanbob:

There is no Palestinian State now and never has been. And no need for one either. So MarkS point is exactly what?

There is a need for Arabs to stop occupying land that they have taken by conquest such as that of the Kurds, Assyrians, Chaldeans,Copts,Berbers and Jews. Considering the Egyptians have fired machine gun fire at their fellow Arabs and former citizens of Gaza for simply trying to cross the border with Egypt, the Arabs of Gaza should be glad the Israeli’s are not treating them the way Arabs treat Arabs.

I suspect MarkS problem with Zionist, Jews and Israeli’s is that they are Zionists, Jews and Israeli’s. Not with land “theft” but who is the “land thief”. Israel should expel the Arabs from her borders,just like Kuwait and Saudi Arabia expelled the Palestinians in 1991/1992 and Jordan in the 1970’s. Expel the Arabs now and in two thousand years MarkS won’t have a problem with the Zionists and in the meantime it won’t have a problem with rockets fired from Gaza.

Jan 1, 2009 - 5:33 pm 104. JM Hanes:

Anonymous:

“For every drop of muslim and “palestinian” blood that hits the ground, the world is made a better place.”

I’m not surprised that you aren’t willing to attach your name to such odious swill. Too many people are already all too willing to attach such sentiments to Israelis, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary. Folks like you just make that easier to do, and thus do you contribute to the cause you ostensibly despise.

Jan 1, 2009 - 5:36 pm 105. SilentWatcher:

Iran is going to let fly a nuke that will land in Gaza. Israel will be blamed, in spite of satellite tracking showing where the nuke came from. That’s my prediction for 2009.

Jan 1, 2009 - 5:49 pm 106. Anna:

86 Mary

Thank you for your post. It is right on.

Jan 1, 2009 - 6:45 pm 107. Katica:

What kind of site is this? Is it American? I have not read so much hatred and one-sided view for a long time.

Uh Uh, I better leave, it might be contagious.

Jan 1, 2009 - 6:51 pm 108. Mitch:

There will be another demo in Boston; Saturday, noon, at Copley Square. The last time I went to one of these events, there were more Boston cops than ANSWER/ISM/ISNA loons. The exhaust from the BPD motorcycles (no catalytic converters) probably had their Green allies swooning in horror. And even if the cops had not been there, or had decided to allow some latitude in means of expression, there was not a loose cobblestone or brick to be had. It’s a shame that the Boston tradition of Irish confetti has been allowed to fall into disuse.

I don’t know why anyone is surprised by this conjunction of the radical left and the Islamic fascists. It’s just the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact all over again. They get along fine as long as they agree on who to kill first.

Jan 1, 2009 - 9:23 pm 109. Mary Madigan:

Thank you for your post. It is right on.

Anna – thanks!

Here’s a link to the Muslim Brotherhood’s advice to their followers on how to bombard the US with pro-terrorist propaganda for “peace and justice”

Of course, no one will admit that they’re spreading Brotherhood propaganda, since the MB is recognized as a terrorist organization in America, but actions speak louder than words. Note how carefully these MB orders are being followed.

Action Alert: Twenty-Six Things to Help Gaza
Twenty-five things to do to bring peace with justice:
(1) First get the facts and then disseminate them.. (of course, they provide the facts..).
(2) Contact local media. Write letters to editors (usually 100-150 words) and longer op-eds (usually 600-800 words) for local newspapers. But also write to news departments in both print, audio, and visual media about their coverage…You can find media listings in your country using search engines like google.
(3) Contact elected and other political leaders in your country to urge them to apply pressure to end the attacks.
(4) Organize and join demonstrations in front of Israeli and Egyptian embassies or when not doable in front of your parliament, office of elected officials, and any other visible place (and do media work for it).
(5) Hold a teach-in, seminar, public dialogue, documentary film viewing etc. this is straightforward: you need to decide venue, nature, if any speakers, and do some publicity (the internet helps).

Jan 1, 2009 - 10:00 pm 110. MarkS:

We went from questioning whether I’m Jewish (perhaps Arab) to theorizing that I’m Neturei Karta or Satmar – not bad, I think we’ve covered quite a wide spectrum. I’m US born, of German descent.

Let’s be clear, Judaism is a religion, not a movement to own some land. First and foremost is belief in G-d and following Jewish law and traditions. The Jewish belief is that we are in exile right now and countless Rabbi’s, of every background (Polish, German, Hungarian (Satmar), Middle Eastern, etc…) made it clear from the day Zionism took root that it was contrary to Jewish beliefs. This is well known and easily confirmed.

Zionism is a political movement for establishing a national homeland for Jews in Palestine – feel free to do a little online research to confirm this – the easiest is to use google an do “define: Zionism”, but you can just as easily pull out a dictionary if you prefer.

Zionism is not Judaism, yet it seems like most people here aren’t aware of this or, like most of the nonsense being spouted, choose to ignore the factual difference between the two.

There are millions of Christian Zionists, perhaps more than their ignorant “Jewish” Zionist counterparts.

Once you’ve made the distinction between the two, Zionism and Judaism, you can start to see the ignorance of people who completely associate the two together. If Zionism didn’t leverage and exploit Judaism, it would obviously be severely lacking the credibility and justification to support its actions and claim to the right of having the land.

It’s important to note that the vast, majority of people who have led and promoted the Zionist movement from it’s founding some 100 years ago were not only none practicing Jews, they were actually anti-religious Jews. Hence the irony, people who hate or don’t practice the religion use the religion to justify their political movement – that’s the foundation upon which the State of Israel stands and hence it’s no surprise that it continues to follow a similar immoral, illogical, punitive approach to maintain its control of the land.

Rather than throwing insults (I am admittedly guilty of this myself) and trying to rationalize things away by trying to stick a label on my view – how about actually addressing the specific points I’ve made – I don’t see a lot of that going on, but I do welcome a more intellectual debate and open minded conversation – more than simply “all Arabs should die and they’ll just exterminate all Jews and he’s just a self-hating Jew” – I refer to these types of postings as naive and infantile because, at best, they’re just an emotional reaction (Donna) – not much thought or rational put into them.

If you can’t recognize the fact that Arabs and Palestinians are angry and frustrated (as anyone in their situation understandably would be) and you believe that one of an Arabs/Palestinians/Muslims main goal in life is to kill all Jews (despite centuries of history that obviously show the opposite) – then unfortunately you’re not even remotely rational. Do I understand the Zionist perspective and desire for having the State of Israel – of course I do – but wanting something and actually having the right to it are two different things and Zionists don’t wish to make the distinction. The result is a State which should not exist by logical and moral standards and a conflict which has gone on for more than half-a-century.

Perhaps we can raise the level of communication from just insults and emotional outbursts to something which discusses the issue itself.

Jan 1, 2009 - 10:33 pm 111. myth buster:

Of course Israel does wrong- like dividing the land God gave them and treating their inheritance as a bargaining chip. I will be the first one to criticize the withdraw of the Israelis from Gaza.

The burden of Israel will not be resolved peacefully. People will try and fail to achieve that objective, and many will perish because of it.

Christians in the so-called Palestine must hold fast to their faith amidst this tribulation. They will be caught in the crossfire, and they will be persecuted by Muslims. This is both tragic and unavoidable.

The world’s carrying capacity for humans is at least 12 billion, and growing all the time with technological advances that allow us to extract more food from less land with each passing year, despite desertification of millions of acres of arable land. Nevertheless, pretty soon more than half of the people in this world will die from disasters that will make you tremble before the Lord. Sure, we’ll have the classic war, famine and pestilence, but it will be greater than World War II, the African famines and the Black Death combined. In addition, natural disasters will rage and water shall turn to blood and wormwood. Besides that, there will be mass executions of Christians for refusing to bow to the world system and its dictator. You’ll have your wish of mass death, but you’ll pray for death when you get it.

Jan 1, 2009 - 10:53 pm 112. Prof Ethan:

This video is truly shocking. I’ve never seen anything so vile as the behavior of these people. “Jews to the ovens!” Unbelievable. Then that hideous woman smirks. Then the praying to Allah by the crowd via a bearded leader with a megaphone: done in order to assert the superiority of Islam–because that’s what’s going on– by disturbing everyone else on the street.

This video should be shown on national television throughout the U.S., as a wake-up call to us all. The U.S. media is always avid for something shocking, and this is IT.

So…why do I suppose this video is never going to be shown on any national network, eh?

Jan 1, 2009 - 11:31 pm 113. Evil Otto:

“Rather than throwing insults (I am admittedly guilty of this myself)”

You’ve been more than happy to toss insults, Mark, from the very first line in your very first comment on this thread. Perhaps you shouldn’t be surprised when people insult you back.

Jan 2, 2009 - 5:34 am 114. Stupid:

MarkS, maybe people will start looking at the points you have made when you stop responding to the insults and the labels only.

You made the comment, “but wanting something and actually having the right to it are two different things and Zionists don’t wish to make the distinction.” By what “moral or logic” criteria have you decided that the Jews don’t have a right to have the State of Israel?

“If Zionism didn’t leverage and exploit Judaism, it would obviously be severely lacking the credibility and justification to support its actions and claim to the right of having the land.” Based on their Islamic beliefs, the Arabs argue that the Jews do not have a right to claim the land that is the State of Israel. The Jews argue that they have a right to claim the land based on their Jewish religious beliefs. Granted, on BOTH sides there are Palestinians and Jews that want to claim the land as their own for political reasons too.

There is no moral or logical conclusion that either the Jews or the Palestinians have a right to claim the State of Israel, based on either a political or religious argument. The solution has to be a practical solution. The group that will make the greatest contribution to society should be given the land.

Jan 2, 2009 - 7:25 am 115. Michael Canzano:

I am proud of Israel for attacking Hamas with a determined vengeance. I pray Israel will not repeat past mistakes. Negotiating with people whose goal is genocide for you is absolute insanity. The land for peace farce played out into embracing Kassams , Katyushas and suicide bombers for years.
Unfortunately the Palestinians only contribution to the Planet has been Terrorism and a vow to destroy Israel.
it is easy fro the rest of world leaders to push Israel to negotiate a cease fire as there are no Kassams ,Katyushas or suicide bombers killing their citizens. BRAVO ISRAEL !

American Christian Infidel

Jan 2, 2009 - 7:34 am 116. Lynn:

Mark S;
We also gave and still give millions to the Pals. The US paid to have Pal police trained in Jordan. Us funds new infrastructure for Pals. US has given, along with the EU, enormous amounts in humanitarian aid to the Pals. Their dancing on 911 was disgusting. I hope and pray for the end of Hamas. They are the obstructionists, along with Iran, to peace between Israel and Palestinians. And yes, the pro-Hamas crowd was ugly and very vocal with their hate. I also feel sorry for them. They don’t seem to realize that Iran is the culprit, not Israel. In the Arab meeting to discuss Gaza, the only state to refuse to pass an Arab initiative proposed by Egypt and the Saudis was Syria (Iranian lapdog) Egypt and Jordan do not want an Iranian controlled state on their borders. The Arab world is not backing Hamas for a good reason. Too bad Al Jazeera and Al Arabiya is inflaming the Arab Street to act like uncivilized human beings. that includes the protestors in the US.

Jan 2, 2009 - 8:00 am 117. Sonya:

“33. Cardin Drake:

Well, I sympathize mightily with Israel and their plight. When you neighbor is crazy, it makes you look bad too. But Jews in America abandoned Israel when they voted for Obama.
He is Carter all over again, and he is going to sell out Israel as soon as he gets in office. But I have other things to worry about besides Israel’s future. If American Jews don’t care about Israel, why should I?
We are going to have to make peace with the Muslim world, and if that means sacrificing Israel, well, not my problem.”

Dear Cardin Drake:

That what Chamberlain thought: “If abandoning Czechs brings peace …”
That what Olmert/Sharon thought: “if sacrificing Jews in Gaza brings peace …”

Sacrificing Israel will bring more blood to the streets of American cities. After all, America is a Big Satan and Israel is a Little Satan. Listen to what Islamic terrorists say. Israel is the first target, but the main target is the USA. So when we support Israel we are protecting not only Jews but mainly ourselves here.

Jan 2, 2009 - 8:07 am 118. Thomas:

MarkS:
Sir, I am afraid you are at the wrong website. The majority of posters disagree with you: you would be more at home on the hardcore leftist, self loathing sites which are abound on the net: Google is your friend, ask him about.

You may post also on David Duke’s blog and the Stormfront: those are the favorites for the Tony Judt-Chomsky types who believe that “Israel is a mistake”.
My I suggest also to you to go Auschwitz-Birkenau or Maidanek and vomit you ideology over there for the audience might be more welcoming and receptive.
Since you are of German descent Ravensbrück, along with the rest of the death camps would be a nice background for your pontification.

Nobody is interested here in arguing with you whether or not a internationally recognized country should be dismantled and its citizens exterminated by using Orwellian PC codewords for it: you are considered Sir, with utmost respect, a Leper.

Jan 2, 2009 - 8:13 am 119. LynnS:

Who would of thought that a group of people, so many years ago, carrying ten commandments to a final resting place, would cause so much trouble.

This foundation of our civilization, our life, will not go quietly into the night. Thank YHWH.

Jan 2, 2009 - 9:01 am 120. David P:

Visceral HATE for Jews & Israel drives & motivates these protesters, actions in Gaza provide them an excuse for public expression of their feelings, LOVE for peace, justice & freedom are only a facade. The faces of the protesters reveal a violent, angry & intolerant level of contempt whose cries parallel the causes of Israels enemies. The protesters don’t support co-existence either, they aim to de-legitimize Israels existence through historical revision, language manipulation & the universal acceptance of misinformation.

Jan 2, 2009 - 9:10 am 121. Avi:

To all who dare say not all Muslims are terrorists, this is my answer:
‘Of course not all terrorists are Muslims, but all terrorists happen to be Muslims’. Period.

Jan 2, 2009 - 10:12 am 122. LeftistsAreTheEnemy:

Time to kick the living SH*T out of all Answer members. I say, “they want a fight?”, let’s do IT.

Jan 2, 2009 - 12:22 pm 123. Chesler Chronicles » The Fourth (Islamist) Reich in America: “Attack” Protesters On the Move:

[...] demonstrations have taken place all across Canada and across the United States. I have previously written about such demonstrations in Boston, Ft. Lauderdale, New York City, San Francisco, and Los Angeles. [...]

Jan 2, 2009 - 12:43 pm 124. Polarik:

Back in March of this year after the vicious terrorist attack at a Jerusalem rabbinical seminary in which eight Israeli students were killed, thousands of Gazans took to the street in joyous celebration, with armed men fired in the air and others passing out sweets to others. More than 75% of Gazans support “armed struggle,” aka, TERRORISM, against Israeli civilians, as if the dancing in the streets was any surprise.

Meanwhile the media continue to ignore the fact that both the government of Gaza and a majority of its citizens want to destroy Israel. There is no such thing as peace with Hamas, and what the media call a “Ceasefire” is, in reality, a “hudna” to Hamas, the Islamic word for “a temporary ceasefire allowing Muslims to become stronger until they are ready to defeat their enemies.”

That is exactly what has happened in every ceasefire between Israel and Hamas, and is also exactly what happened following the 2006 Hezbollah War. NONE of the tenets of the ceasefire were observed by Hezbollah, either.

Hamas is a radical Islamic thuggery who posted, on the day before Christmas, all of the lovely punishments, like lashing, amputation, crucifixion, and death, they have in store for anyone violating Sha’ria law in Hamasistan, aka Gaza.

Here are some facts that the media neglected to mention:

* Two million Israelis are now living under threat of rockets, including approximately 700,000 Israeli Arabs.

* Altogether, more than 300,000 Israelis have been displaced from their homes.

* Fifteen percent of the entire Israeli population is living in bomb shelters.

* Approximately 5,500 homes have been damaged by rockets.

* Israel’s tourist industry, which had finally started to recover from the Palestinian War, is again being devastated.

Where is CNN reporting this? Where is the BBC reporting this? Yea, right.

After the Mumbai massacre, Phyllis said that “Islamic fundamentalists have declared a major, global war against the West and against non-Wahabi Muslims. To date, the world has refused to treat the Islamic/Islamist assault as the full-fledged religious war that it really is. No, it is not a traditional war which means that we will require non-traditional, as well as traditional means to fight it.”

Hamas has dedicated not only itself, but also its people, to the destruction of Israel, and if left to their own devices, would lay waste to Israel.

That’s not going to happen, and only when Hamas scumbags have had enough taste of martyrdom, will they understand it.

A 21st Century intellect cannot reason with a 7th Century mentality.

Jan 2, 2009 - 1:26 pm 125. Zeitgeist:

Notice the only people who use the term “zoinists” are neo-nazi’s , Jihadists, Euroweenies, and the American left…

“We dont hate Jews…we hate isreal”

Stuck on stupid….

Jan 2, 2009 - 2:22 pm 126. SAF:

Anna:

Glad I could clear up my position for you. Sometimes I am a tad too terse.

Jan 2, 2009 - 2:51 pm 127. southchild » Blog Archive » Fort Lauderdale or Tehran?:

[...] supporters of our enemies. Still think we don’t have an immigration problem? Also, check out this compilation of pro-Hamas rallies from across the [...]

Jan 2, 2009 - 3:09 pm 128. Cb:

Ike – I don’t know you – but if I did I would probably knock the shut out if you as you scream “hatred”. Cut me an email – I hide from no one! Hdroadkingpd@gmail.com we can do lunch you ass!

Jan 2, 2009 - 6:38 pm 129. Bob Smith:

Islam is a death cult. It is powered by anonymous religious thugs who kill to enforce sharia law.

For 1,400 years Islam has expanded and destroyed every civilization in its path.

More Muslims equals more anonymous religious thugs, and more violence

Jan 3, 2009 - 9:19 am 130. Mediaman:

Zionism as a means to control the land? Tiny little nation of Israel? What does it constitute, perhaps 1/100th of the Middle East? What nonsense…

Jan 3, 2009 - 11:02 am 131. Chuck V:

So HAMAS is getting its ass handed to it and whines. Come on HAMAS you claim to be bad asses and will wipe out Israel…well now that just don’t seem to be happening you gutless scum bags. I hope Israel turns you and the whole of GAZA into a damn parking lot. Israel is the only nation on the face of the earth who has the guts to do what needs to be done with ilk like HAMAS. Hopefully the rest of the third world terrorist will soon meet the same fate. Bye bye HAMAS try not to die like the bitches you are!!!!

Jan 3, 2009 - 2:44 pm 132. Martin:

you forgot the Hamas love fest in Kansas City

http://creepingsharia.wordpress.com/2009/01/02/kansas-city-muslims-rally-to-support-hamas-terrorists/

Jan 3, 2009 - 5:56 pm 133. Cat:

When next I see a hijabi out and about, I’ll have to wonder if behind that bulging face and blank eyes boils the hideous, demonic hatred of that pious Fort Lauderdale muslimah.

And then I’ll wonder about her imam, smiling back in the mosque as he sharpens his pencil for the Friday sermon, Koran open and ready at his elbow.

Jan 3, 2009 - 6:50 pm 134. MarkS:

To the moderator:

As you know I’ve tried twice to post responses, for some reason you are censoring my feedback even though they are a direct responses to other people’s comments and there is nothing inappropriate in them. You allowed “Anonymous” (#88) to post the most outrageous comments “Israel isn’t targeting civilians, BUT THEY SHOULD BE -KILL THEM ALL”, and won’t censor that, but you will censor a discourse on the subject?

I will try again – if there is something you object to in my posting, feel free to email me (marksilberstone@gmail.com), otherwise, if you won’t even do that, it would seem you are just proving my point of how dishonest pro-Zionists are.

Jan 3, 2009 - 7:57 pm 135. ThinkingPerson:

Note to ILikeIke…You questioned a poster to point out where you had defended terrorists? You defended Hamas in their war against Israel. Enough said. Pick your knuckles back up off the ground and crawl back into your cave. In case you don’t read a newspaper or hear any news besides The View…….Hamas = terrorist

Jan 3, 2009 - 8:21 pm 136. ThinkingPerson:

#111 Myth Buster…I bet you were a load of fun around the Christmas Table eh?

Jan 3, 2009 - 8:23 pm 137. Mike:

110. MarkS:
“The Jewish belief is that we are in exile right now and countless Rabbi’s, of every background (Polish, German, Hungarian (Satmar), Middle Eastern, etc…) made it clear from the day Zionism took root that it was contrary to Jewish beliefs. This is well known and easily confirmed.”

Finally MarkS you are giving some reasons for your beliefs and I respect those beliefs. It is nice to see you not just hurl insults at those that disagree with you. Many of us understand the reasoning behind why some rabbis feel that it is not yet time for the Return. However many other rabbis and Jewish scholars are in total disagreement with you. And even more importantly the prophets disagree with you. Who am I to believe, you or Ezekiel? Yes, you are right when you say that the Arabs are angry and frustrated. I suspect Haman was angry and frustrated when his plans went astray as well. Remember, it was in 1948 with the UN as it was in the time of Ezra with the Persians. If this later day Return be the will of G-d it will persevere, if not…well the answer is obvious. This is the end of my part of the discussion. We will not change each others’ minds. Peace

Jan 3, 2009 - 9:52 pm 138. MarkS:

Evil Otto: I suggested that stop with the insults and focus on discussing the actual isues – did you happen to notice all the insults that followed? Yes, it’s obviously my fault people are incapable of responding rationally and throughout this thread spend more time whining and insulting and less time discussing anything about the actual subject or addressing points that I’ve made.

“Stupid:” Good move, imply that any insults I made prevented people from discussing relevant points. One cop-out after another – I guess when ones best response is just the same old “Arabs want to kill all Jews” rant or “you must be a self-hating Jews” or “you’re a leftie” – then you clearly don’t seem capable of logically or rationally addressing points I’ve made. This seems to be a problem faced by most posters here (just go through the thread and count how many people fall into one of those areas) – I guess if you can’t support your view with common sense then you just have to avoid it.

Avi: ‘Of course not all terrorists are Muslims, but all terrorists happen to be Muslims’ – I love quoting this stuff, it just makes my point so easy – yes, the Irish Republican Army weren’t considered terrorists, nor the IDF, nor the Stern Gang, nor the Irgun, nor the ETA in Spain – or perhaps they’re all Muslim? Who decides whose a terrorist, the US? Don’t fool yourselves, the IDF is simply a terrorist organization in uniform – Hamas is also a terrorist organization – terrorism used against terrorists – what did you expect?

Jan 4, 2009 - 12:26 am 139. All roads lead to Gaza in America today « Creeping Sharia:

[...] Read it all, including recaps of the various pro-Hamas riots rallys around the U.S., via Chesler Chronicles » Gaza Comes to America. Hate Demonstrations Against Israel on the East and West… [...]

Jan 4, 2009 - 3:16 am 140. Evil Otto:

MarkS:

Evil Otto: I suggested that stop with the insults and focus on discussing the actual isues

How about this: next time, don’t START insulting people, and instead focus on the issues and maybe people won’t be inclined to insult you back. In your earliest comments in this thread you implied that your opponents were “delusional,” that what they were saying was “sheer stupidity.” When I read things like that, I know that the person making the comments isn’t worth responding to in a meaningful way.

Face it, Mark, you have CONTEMPT for us. Why bother “discussing the actual issues” with someone who thinks we’re idiots? If we’re “delusional,” as you say, then there’s no reason why you should take anything we have to say seriously. Nothing in your further comments has shown a change in attitude towards us.

- did you happen to notice all the insults that followed?

Yes. Stop whining about it. It’s as if you don’t think the rules apply to you, that you can simply declare that an uncivil thread will suddenly become civil when you decree it, despite the fact that you’re one of the people responsible for it being uncivil.

Yes, it’s obviously my fault people are incapable of responding rationally

This is EXACTLY what I’m talking about, Mark. You claim to want to stop the insults, but here you are insulting us. We are not “incapable of responding rationally.” Has it EVER occurred to you that the opposition is rational, despite the fact that they disagree with you? Do you think that you’re smarter than we are? That you have access to some truth we don’t? From the arrogant, sneering tone of your comments it would seem so.

and throughout this thread spend more time whining and insulting and less time discussing anything about the actual subject or addressing points that I’ve made.

Why should anyone bother? Even this comment you’ve made is filled to the brim with contempt. You simply wish to be insulting without being insulted back.

Jan 4, 2009 - 10:18 am 141. MarkS:

Moderator – you’re selectively allowing only some of my posts through, yet you’re apparently allowing others to post whatever they like – hard to have any kind of fair discussion or debate about a subject. I’ve requested that you email me if you have a particular objection to something in a post, yet you haven’t. I reiterate my point from earlier – I guess this is a good example of the pro-Israel’s approach to this issue since fair debate isn’t something they can win.

Jan 4, 2009 - 10:50 pm 142. LynnS:

Okay are you ready for a fair debate? One side says that Israel should be wiped off the face of the earth. One side says that Israel should not be wiped off the face of the earth.

Okay debate over. The winner has been decided and it is……drum roll….Israel should not be wiped off the face of the earth.

Now Israel can continue to defend her citizen’s right to exist.

Jan 6, 2009 - 8:00 am 143. deguello:

American jews are receiving their just desserts for their suicidal liberalism, which has empowered left-wing antisemitism,and swollen the ranks of jew haters, with moslem immigrants. We can look forward to an intensification of these trends under an Obama regime.

Jan 6, 2009 - 9:48 am 144. Chesler Chronicles » Jews: To The Muslim Gas Chamber.:

[...] we have grown used to seeing Palestinian and Hamas supporters goose-step, Nazi-style, shoot out their arms as they deliver the Hitlerian [...]

Jan 30, 2009 - 4:55 pm 145. Chesler Chronicles » Free Speech, Real Jews Under Jihadic Siege in England, India, America, and Canada.:

[...] recent demonstrations, ostensibly about Gaza, turned into dangerous hatefests all across the country. University campuses have become [...]

Feb 13, 2009 - 12:15 pm 146. Free Speech, Real Jews, Under Jihadic Siege in England, India, America, and Canada. | Ft. Hard Knox:

[...] recent demonstrations, ostensibly about Gaza, turned into dangerous hatefests all across the country. University campuses have become [...]

Feb 13, 2009 - 2:19 pm 147. Phyllis Chesler on Islam the west and global jihad | Vlad Tepes:

[...] recent demonstrations, ostensibly about Gaza, turned into dangerous hatefests all across the country. University campuses have become [...]

Feb 13, 2009 - 2:53 pm 148. shazly:

i hope from usa to be more fair where israel in 1946.it`s no thing called israel in this date. israel sole our land by helpping from usa

Aug 26, 2009 - 9:21 am 149. shazly:

why arabs hate israel?that`s the reason
see that link http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=fcc7e9155b4eabe69bf8d6369220dcabe04e75f6e8ebb871

Aug 26, 2009 - 9:49 am

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