Thousands of articles have been written about the California woman who now has 14 children, 8 of whom were just born all at once, together. There is almost an obscene fascination with this story. It is something one reads in The National Enquirer not in the mass media. It is grotesque, a freak Circus Act. Human beings do not give birth to litters, only animals do. And yet–here we are. The woman’s gone and done it.
But who has 14 children? Very religious people sometimes do. They are often opposed to abortion and/or do not value advanced female education or well paid female work outside the home (this includes a relatively small number of Chasidic and ultra-orthodox Jews, Catholics, and Christians), but the collective number of their progeny pales in comparison to that of outlawed, break-away Mormon and law-abiding Muslim men who practice polygamy. Osama bin Laden’s father had 57 children.
Now, without resorting to polygamy or marriage (there is no husband in sight, only a sperm donor), a single mother has joined these hallowed ranks: Nadja Suleman, 33, was the divorced single mother of three sets of twins (six children) before she became the single mother of eight more children, born in California on January 27, 2009. This is sheer female ambition, perhaps as well as madness.
Is Suleman hell-bent on having 20 children all by herself? Psychologically, is she the next version of a surrogate contract breeder who, instead of choosing to give “the gift of life” to another woman, keeps it for herself? Suleman lusts for babies, children. There is no way she could afford to support or even care take so many children all on her own. Not here, and not back in the old country. Her father, Ed, with whom she lives, claims he’s a Palestinian. Once this gets out–will she become a poster child/mother for….free baby formula and diapers? Or for Jihad?
Suleman may have her motives. But the fertility clinic doctors who allowed this to proceed should be…What?
On what basis could they have stopped her? Every woman has the right to her own body. But surely, it was dangerous, uncustomary, and medically unethical to implant eight embryos at once, yes? Why did they do so? But, once all eight embryos “took,” on what basis could physicians, or even the state, have forced her to have a “selective reduction?”
And why did the sperm donor, one “David Solomon” donate his sperm? He is listed as the father on the birth records for some of Nadya’s older children although Nadya was married and divorced from another man. (Or not–see below).
Setting aside all these other issues, let me raise just one. The economic factor.
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126 Comments
1. Suzi:Suleman-Solomon–who knows? I don’t see it as my business how someone else reproduces, but I do see it as my business when I’m expected to pay for their upkeep. I’m not too concerned about the morality, but I do worry about any child who doesn’t have the benefit of two parents (read the studies before attacking, folks) and I wonder how much time this woman will have to devote to each of her many offspring, especially when the mental and physical problems start to present themselves (one can hope there are none, but at their low birth weights, chances are there will be many hurdles).
Feb 2, 2009 - 4:30 pm 2. George Jochnowitz:She was never married??? Live and learn. She is danger of becoming the victim of an honor murder.
Feb 2, 2009 - 4:38 pm 3. Ester:I think everyone is repulsed by this story. The woman sounds unbalanced in the extreme. All the information and stories are conflicting, and I think the media reported that only one set of twins, not three, was born in the first brood of six. Who can we believe? Some reports says the grandmother has stated she’s moving out of the house she shares with her ex-husband. This entire story smacks of gross irresponsibility and total instability in all members of the family. And of course, Oprah loves this kind of sensationalism! Perhaps she will fund the family’s needs and help change the thousands of diapers?
Feb 2, 2009 - 4:48 pm 4. iammefrommiami:It makes think how important choice is to women. I see so called pro-life people pointing to adorable little babies and saying, “see this precious baby wouldn’t be here if his mother had an abortion”. That same kind of “thinking” could justify FORCING women to take fertility drugs. Just point to the babies and say,” see all these precious little babies wouldn’t be here if we didn’t FORCE women to breed against their will like cattle, so that makes it okay”.
Feb 2, 2009 - 6:42 pm 5. iammefrommiami:Weird stuff.
Also I don’t know about Catholics and others but in “defense” of Chasidic and Ultra Orthodox Jews-they also don’t value advanced male education if it is secular or outside the shul.
Feb 2, 2009 - 6:52 pm 6. Dr S McCosker:Is the woman a Muslim of some description? Or from an Arab Christian background – now secularised?
I do feel sorry for the babies, if they survive, poor little things. They didn’t ask to be conceived this way. They didn’t ask to be born into such a mess. But here they are: seemingly, produced as a means to an end, in the pursuit of fame and/or cash and/ or attention.
Life was bad enough for the Dionne quintuplets, who were conceived entirely without assistance from modern medicine, and born into a conventional marriage, but who were devoured by the celebrity machine nevertheless.
Let those of us who believe in G-d, in the Holy One, pray that somehow He, the Lord and Giver of Life, may rescue these children, watch over them, and bring ultimate good out of what certainly appears to be confusion, or even evil.
Feb 2, 2009 - 7:45 pm 7. bbloom:“in vitro” is not a cheap procedure. Someone is behind this travesty.
Feb 2, 2009 - 8:05 pm 8. Dave:This is so sad for the children involved. They will never have the time or normal love that a child needs to develop as an individual.
@Dr S McCosker #6: AMEN!
Feb 2, 2009 - 11:12 pm 9. Marilyn P. Safir PhD:It was announced on Israeli TV that she requested that the MD implant 8 embyos as she wanted to make a record. So apprrently did her MD. On to Oprah!!
Feb 3, 2009 - 12:16 am 10. Pajamas Media » Octuplets: A Frankenstinian Moment in Modern Obstetrics:[...] Read the entire piece here. [...]
Feb 3, 2009 - 3:10 am 11. canuck:Two sides to this…both negative. Turns out her three previous sets of twins were all in vitro fertilizations. Transferring any embryos (likely at taxpayer expense) to this woman was unethical in the extreme and the clinic needs to be delicensed as should all the OBs involved. The chance of having permanent welfare and Medicaid recipients is just about 100% and the likelihood of having kids with Intracranial Hemorrhages (”Democrats” in my hospital) and chronic lung disease is not far behind that number. Educationally we are probably looking at special ed for most of them.
The Oprah thing is disgusting but let it happen. As soon as it does, the money needs to be seized to repay the taxpayer now and in the future.
Feb 3, 2009 - 3:57 am 12. Patti:When the ethnicity of the mother was stated in the 1/21/09 New York Post piece. (she is Palestinan) I recalled a think a story I read in The New York TImes a few months back, during the “truce.” Hamas equates the breeding of a new generation of fighters with Jihad. It seems to me as long as we’re considering emotional or financial motivation, we should throw political motivation in the mix.
A reprint of the NY TIMES piece follows:
NY TIMES 10/31/08
Gaza Journal
Feb 3, 2009 - 4:24 am 13. Brandyjane:For War Widows, Hamas Recruits Army of Husbands
By TAGHREED EL-KHODARY
Published: October 30, 2008
GAZA — The grooms were resplendent in white shirts while the brides all wore black. At a sports stadium one recent October evening, thousands of Palestinians — 300 newly married couples along with relatives and friends — gathered for a mass wedding celebration, the 10th here this year courtesy of Hamas.
Hamas, the militant Islamist group that controls Gaza, has been observing a truce with Israel since June, allowing its underground fighters to resurface but leaving them without much to do. At the same time, hundreds of the group’s women have been recently widowed, their husbands having been killed either in confrontations with Israel or in the fighting last year between Hamas and its secular rival, Fatah.
Taking advantage of the pause in violence, the Hamas leaders have turned to matchmaking, bringing together single fighters and widows, and providing dowries and wedding parties for the many here who cannot afford such trappings of matrimony.
“Marriage is the same as jihad,” or holy war, said Muhammad Yousef, one recently married member of the Qassam Brigades, the Hamas underground. “With marriage, you are producing another generation that believes in resistance.”
About 300 Qassam members, mostly in their 20s, signed up with their new wives for the most recent celebration, held at a sports stadium in the Tuffah district, east of Gaza City. Local mosques spread the word about the event and offered to help find spouses for single men whose families had not yet managed to arrange them a match.
As an added inducement, couples were promised a cash grant in lieu of a dowry, which few families could afford. But the economic embargo on Gaza, spearheaded by the Israelis who, like the United States and the European Union, classify Hamas as a terrorist organization, somewhat dampened the celebrations. While the poorest couples received a gift equivalent to $2,000, many others in less dire straits came away with only $200.
“That’s the cost of a plank of wood for a bedroom suite,” said one disappointed bride, Ola Dalo, 21, as she leaned her head on her new husband, Ali Msabah, 24.
Wael al-Zard, head of Al Taysir, an association affiliated with Hamas that tries to provide its fighters with the means to marry, said that many Muslims who used to contribute money from the Persian Gulf states had stopped transferring funds “out of fear.”
To make up some of the shortfall, Ismail Haniya, the head of the Hamas government in Gaza, made a personal contribution of $30,000 to the Tuffah group wedding, while another senior Hamas leader, Mahmoud Zahar, contributed $10,000.
“Your money is not going to casinos,” Mr. Zard declared during the wedding event. His point was that the donations would be devoted only to furthering the Islamist agenda, and not going to line officials’ pockets, an accusation widely leveled against the previous rulers from Fatah. “There will be more weddings, and no one will remain single.”
The 300 grooms were dressed in black pants, white shirts and colorful ties but no jackets, because of recent budget cuts. The brides, sitting separately among the women, wore head scarves and black robes over their evening dresses but were easily spotted by their heavy makeup. The couples had all signed marriage contracts before the event.
The grooms danced on the stage as a male singer extolled the virtues of married life. Ehab Adas, 25, one of the grooms, said he missed fighting but was keeping busy working as a secretary at the Interior Ministry. He pointed out his bride in the crowd, and proudly displayed the last text message he had received from her on his mobile phone. “Today is my real wedding,” it read. He had replied simply, “I love you.”
Although Hamas has long organized joint weddings, it is now doing so with more verve, placing special emphasis on remarrying its war widows. One of them, Amani Saed, 24, attended the mass wedding with her two young sons from her first marriage, Rami, 5, and Muhammad, 3. Their father, Khaled Saed, was killed at the age of 28 during the clashes between Hamas and Fatah in August 2007.
Eight months after Khaled’s death, his father sought Amani’s hand for his younger son, Muhammad, 22, who also worked at the Interior Ministry. Amani said she reluctantly agreed. “Muhammad is younger. It’s hard, but it’s good for the kids,” she said.
Muhammad Yousef, the groom who equated marriage with jihad, came to celebrate and collect $200 even though his family is considered reasonably well off. In July 2006, an Israeli tank crew fired in his direction as he and his group fired rockets at Israel. He was badly wounded in the chest and both legs, and his friends took him for dead and celebrated his “martyrdom” on the way to the hospital morgue.
But he survived, and because of his severe physical injuries, moved from firing rockets to manufacturing them instead. Mr. Yousef said he shared all the details of his past with his wife before they married, and she accepted his way of life wholeheartedly. The night before the mass wedding party, he said, his wife shared with him her ultimate wish: to carry out a joint suicide attack.
“It makes think how important choice is to women. I see so called pro-life people pointing to adorable little babies and saying, ’see this precious baby wouldn’t be here if his mother had an abortion’. That same kind of ‘thinking’ could justify FORCING women to take fertility drugs. Just point to the babies and say,’ see all these precious little babies wouldn’t be here if we didn’t FORCE women to breed against their will like cattle, so that makes it okay’.
Weird stuff.”
Weird stuff indeed! What in the world are you talking about, iammefrommiami? Do you even know any pro-life or religious people? Who in the world is talking about forcing women to take fertility drugs, other than you?
Feb 3, 2009 - 4:45 am 14. TomF:Iammefrommiami:
You seem to imply that pro-life is anti-choice. Pro-life is for choice, but not for choice without responsibility. This is the very issue that the article is raising. At its core the present financial crisis is an issue of personal responsibility. A person’s (be it a woman’s or a man’s) rights come with personal responsibility. Yes, we can eliminate “the mistake”, but we can not eliminate our personal responsibility for our actions. And even if it is legal to destroy the embryo, a person still bears responsibly for what they do to that embryo. In short, pro-life is pro-responsibility.
PS. Don’t kid yourself into thinking that FORCING women to take fertility drugs is in anyway remotely associated with the pro-life position.
Feb 3, 2009 - 4:53 am 15. cedarford:I believe liberals who believe in absolute reproductive free choice for women and free fertility treatments for the poor – are about to get some cold water thrown on them.
What? A state 40 billion in debt is going to fund this maniac’s lifestyle choices while essential services a state must do are being cut right and left? After already being the funder of this woman’s other 6 kid’s needs? At least 2 of the 6 who are autistic, special needs kids already costing a small fortune from taxpayers and requiring extra care from the welfare momma as is?
We really did redefine Doctors ethics to allow this travesty in the name of Freedom!!!
She wants MORE kids?
Make it stop! Make it stop!
Feb 3, 2009 - 5:25 am 16. Peter the Bubblehead:This woman may be suffering from some form of mental illness. I feel, if all the publicity this has generated had not happened, for sure she would have gotten herself pregnant again and again and again as soon as she could following this ‘incident.’ Having 1 or 2 more babies every year, with not a single concern about how she would care, feed, clothe, or school them. At what point do citizens (and I purposely did not use the word ‘State’) step in and say enough is enough?
Feb 3, 2009 - 6:45 am 17. Christa:Ummm, not to be nitpicky, but “Mormons” do NOT practice polygamy. That ended in the 1890s. The polygamist groups to which you refer are Fundamentalist Latter Day Saints – yes, the two religions had common roots, but they’ve taken vastly different paths in the last 100+ years. To lump the 13 million+ members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (or “Mormon Church”) with these small, law-breaking polygamist groups is incorrect and uneducated.
Feb 3, 2009 - 6:51 am 18. ked5:Mormon (aka: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints) men have NOT practiced polygamy in over *100 YEARS*. there may be fundamentalist groups that do, but they are NOT Mormon. (and if they ever were, they aren’t now – they would have been excommunicated for practising it.) Those groups are distinctly seperate.
To include such perjorative falsehoods detracts from what you are saying, and calls every other “fact” presented into question about their credibility.
Feb 3, 2009 - 7:10 am 19. ked5:You know one of the things that’s really ironic here, recently one fertility specialist was SUED for not treating a single woman. It’s really easy to jump on the fertility specialist who treated her (and *was* irresponsilble for implanting so many embryos at once) as having committed malpractice, but our sociaty has become so “anything” goes and sue happy when the tantruming brats don’t get their way, that the inmates are indeed in charge of the asylum.
Feb 3, 2009 - 7:14 am 20. momof3:Most pro-life people wish fewer children were conceived-MANY fewer children. We believe in choice, the choice to choose to use birth control rather than abortion as a way to avoid parenthood, or the choice to give a baby you can’t or won’t raise up to a couple who would love it. Many pro-life people are also against fertility treatments, since there are so many children in the world needing parents already, and the problem of “extra” embryos getting destroyed bothers some. No prolife people encourage women who don’t want them to have kids. We just encourage them to use birth control. Most prolife people disagree strongly with the Catholics on birth control. In fact, many catholics do too.
Almost all of America, seemingly, agrees that having a litter is not healthy. Primates were not designed to do so and can not care for them. I have twins, there is no way a woman can care for 8 infants alone, and it’s well documented she has no money for help. It is also irresponsible in the extreme to have children and expect the taxpayers to foot the bill.
Oprah is an idiot so this doesn’t surprise me. I have no doubt she’ll be celebrating this woman’s strong decision to have children because she wanted them. Who needs a dad? They’re extraneous, right? Never mind that many well-designed peer-reviewed studies show that kids from intact families have higher grades, go to school longer, get pregnant later, earn more, commit less crimes, etc etc. That’s just conservative crap being pushed to limit other’s personal fulfilllment. Which is, to far too many these days, the only thing that matters.
There are families who can handle larger numbers of children, but they are families, not single mothers, and the kids don’t all come at once.
Feb 3, 2009 - 7:23 am 21. Paul from Hamburg:Regardless of what may have been happening in this mother’s head, the doctor should lose his (her?)license.
Feb 3, 2009 - 7:36 am 22. Patterson:“We have it all. I am waiting for the gladiators.”
Me too!!!
Feb 3, 2009 - 7:50 am 23. Al in 10128:A lot of conjecture out there (bred for Jihad, immigration issues, etc.) but the basic fact that she’s has multiple in-vitro procedures- they’re $10m per procedure, possibly even per egg, in NYC- and no means to pay for them speaks volumes about the sad state of public welfare, even political correctness, in California specifically and the US in general. Where’s the Governator on this? That his state is in such financial trouble but yet these 14 children are going to be on the public welfare roles- and not at the cost of a “normal”, healthy, emotionally stable welfare recipient- for a generation is terrible. And if I hear/read one welfare mama call me out online, I say: get off your a$$, off your computer and get a job. Of course I feel sorry for the innocent children here. Should any of this conjecture prove true, there will be *NO* corporate give-aways to this family to help them out. Do you see Smuckers donating jelly “Jam for Jihad!” or P&G diapers “Pampers for Palestinians!”? No way.
Feb 3, 2009 - 7:58 am 24. Laura:Utter and pure selfishness on the part of this woman and doctor (who should have his licence revoked). As someone who grew up in a single-parent home with 3 other siblings, I can attest to the hardships for both children and parent. This woman is a nutcase who should have her tubes tied for the benefit of not only her kids, but for the poor tax-paying slobs who will be paying to support them.
Feb 3, 2009 - 8:00 am 25. TalkinKamel:I’m beginning to suspect a political motive; this woman might be some sort of experiment in how many potential jihadis a female can churn out.
And our society makes it all too easy for her to get away with it. Ask her to get married? What are you, intolerant? Don’t you know how caring and committed single mothers are, blah, blah, blah? Don’t you know her body is her own, to do what she wants with, blah, blah, blah? Cut her welfare payments? Do you hate poor people?
And so it goes. Ironically, society looks down on traditional couples who have large families, though such people rarely throw themselves on welfare, and are usually responsible and self-sufficient, but this woman’s going to be glamorized, and put on Oprah.
Considering the number of kids she’s already produced, and the family’s background, I suspect a political motive here. I’d take a look at whoever’s funding all these very expensive treatments she’s getting, and her mother, father and ex-husband; those doctors, too.
And, as Cedarford points out, we might want to take a look at how much we’ve redefined ethics and the power of doctors.
Feb 3, 2009 - 8:05 am 26. submandave:iammefrommiami: “I see so called pro-choice people pointing to bad parents and economic conditions and saying, “see this problem wouldn’t be here if his mother had an abortion”. That same kind of “thinking” could justify FORCING women to have abortions.”
My edit would be just as ridiculous and over-the-top as your original statement, except for the sad fact that there actualy are governments in the world that actualy do force some woment ot have abortions.
Feb 3, 2009 - 8:23 am 27. TalkinKamel:Patti, consider this: this woman has a history of multiple births, which is rather unusual, and many of her children appear to have been fathered by in-vitrio fertilization, a very expensive procedure, though this family doesn’t appear to be rich. This certainly doesn’t follow the usual welfare queen pattern of women having children by a string of lovers. This woman doesn’t appear to have any; she has sperm donors. And most welfare queens just don’t have litters.
Now, we know that no matter how much jihadists encourage death in jihad for kids, they often unwilling to sacrifice their own. Arafat kept his own daughter in Paris. We do know that jihadis use technologies, such as cell phones; maybe they’ve decided to use reproductive technology? Use some “tarnished” woman: one who’se divorced, dishonored, whatever, use her fertility for the glory of the Caliphate? She can produce soldiers for the jihad, who can be easily sacrificed (unlike the pampered young of the leaders) and raised, from birth to be jihadis, and sacrifice their lives mindlessly.
I think this should be looked into. And, bad as foster care can be, those kids should be removed from that home.
Feb 3, 2009 - 8:23 am 28. Jeannette:#4 iammefrommiami,
Your take on prolifers is so skewed that I suspect it’s on purpose, and not by accident. The Catholic Church (many prolifers are Catholic, as I’m sure you know) calls in vitro fertilization a sin, and I’m pretty sure She frowns on single women purposely having 14 children, too. To sum up the Church’s position: A man and woman, married to each other, have sex and acknowledge that this is how babies are made; this is the ideal way to reproduce, the ideal way to raise kids, and things go a whole lot better if we all try to go along with this the best we can.
So anyone who knows anything about the prolife movement can assure you that forced fertility drugs will not become part of the prolife platform. sheesh.
Feb 3, 2009 - 8:43 am 29. Helen:Who paid for the treatment? All this talk of choices and decisions and not having the right to tell women what they should do is all very well but there is a financial aspect to the whole problem. Well, several financial aspects but the payment for treatment is one of them.
Feb 3, 2009 - 8:54 am 30. cheeflo:iamfrommiami — “That same kind of “thinking” could justify FORCING women to take fertility drugs. Just point to the babies and say,” see all these precious little babies wouldn’t be here if we didn’t FORCE women to breed against their will like cattle, so that makes it okay”.
Weird stuff.”
It is you who is weird by suggesting that this is even remotely plausible. Abortion advocates have to pull this kind of ridiculous argument out of their fevered imaginations because there really is no rational defense for their position of on-demand abortion, which is a pernicious choice, and which is not a right by any objective standard. The notion that limiting abortion is somehow coercive is as false a conclusion as assuming that fecundity could be.
This situation is actually a derivative “pro-choice” argument which enshrines choice, no matter how bad a choice, over what is right.
Pregnancy is a direct result of a purposeful act, which, not incidentally, is also a choice. Feminist paranoia and victim mentality are obvious in your line of thinking.
Feb 3, 2009 - 8:58 am 31. fred:The “mother” and all the rest of this awesomely dysfunctional family are acting out their narcissistic drives. The tragedy is that it is highly likely that the children will become narcissists too. And that’s bad news for everyone. These poor kids really don’t have a chance.
Feb 3, 2009 - 9:04 am 32. sambo hux:Suze and Laura:
Just a week ago Nancy Pelosi was excoriated by the right for suggesting that family planning could have a positive effect on the economy. “Leave it to a Dem to think birth control is a good thing.” Now the exact same people are whining about having the babies because why? Money, mostly.
#1 Suze: “I don’t see it as my business how someone else reproduces, but I do see it as my business when I’m expected to pay for their upkeep.”
Well, apparently you DO see it as your business, whether it’s about reproducing or NOT reproducing. And you talk about those precious wittle babies like they’re a hot tub.
#24: Laura: “This woman is a nutcase who should have her tubes tied.”
Joseph Mengele called, he wants his crazy back.
It’s all about the money with you people . . . always about the money. What happened to the wonder, the joy, the preciousness of life. LIFE! I’m appalled that you would judge and pillory a woman so committed to your cause.
Feb 3, 2009 - 9:23 am 33. Sandra in Arizona:Very good facts and observations. One slight comment that was made in passing that needs to be corrected, though. Mormon men are not polygamists. There are off-shoots of the Mormon Church that are not approved by the Mormon Church who are polygamists. Otherwise, this article was well thought out and researched.
Feb 3, 2009 - 9:32 am 34. fred:“Who paid for the treatment?” by Helen at #29
Whoever had the deep pockets, surely had an agenda. I highly doubt that this young Palestinian woman had the money by dint of her employment. And I doubt her parents did, as they are bankrupt. Fertility programs are NOT cheap. Medical insurance does not pay for this sort of thing. Couples who do go this route have very substantial bills to pay off for years.
I think there is more to this story than meets the eye. In any event, I stand by my prior statement that only serious narcissists would do this sort of thing (have six kids, no father, and then go and have eight more in a brood). No thought is given to how the kids will be raised under extreme (to put it mildly)financial stress. Unless… there is a secret benefactor. Methinks it may be traceable back to the Hijaz and may have something to do with jihad.
Feb 3, 2009 - 9:34 am 35. TalkinKamel:I think what people are disturbed here is the lack of a father—the two-parent family does seem to be the best one to raise kids in, and the fact that this woman appears to be slightly demented, in her determination to give birth to huge numbers of kids, unaided by a dad, and that our welfare, nanny-state culture—-supported by liberal politicians such as Nancy Pelosi—makes it impossible to criticize this woman, or scrutinize her behavior too much.
Personally, I find it disturbing that religious and/or traditional married couples, who want large families are demonized as being anti-abortion, female oppressing bigots who are abusing the planet or something, if they have more than two kids (by the way, doesn’t Pelosi have something like five children? If so, she doesn’t practice what she preaches), whereas unmarried moms are canonized in secular society. Just look at all the flak Ann Coulter caught, when she dared criticize them in her latest book.
A strong economy, and intact families, allow parents to support their kids without government hand-outs, which is what we should be striving for.
And, as Patti points out in Post #12, there are political aspects to this case too!
Feb 3, 2009 - 9:36 am 36. cheeflo:#35 TalkinKamel — well stated.
Feb 3, 2009 - 9:53 am 37. TalkinKamel:Fred, I think there might be a jihad connection too.
Somebody, please get those kids out of that house, before some kindly benefactor from Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia, etc., offers to “adopt” them, and give them a good home—or they simply vanish, and are never heard from again.
Feb 3, 2009 - 9:57 am 38. Will:The main question is who pays for this fraud?US TAX PAYERS OF COURSE.
Feb 3, 2009 - 10:02 am 39. TalkinKamel:Hmmmm, family’s bankrupt, but they get expensive in vitrio treatments; grandpa’s heading back to Iraq soon; is he going to take the kids with him? http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/01/30/earlyshow/health/main4764432.shtml
Feb 3, 2009 - 10:02 am 40. TalkinKamel:According to this article, all the woman’s children have been conceived by IVF. This is not normal behavior. Women who want to have babies go out and find a husband, or they become teachers. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/01/30/earlyshow/health/main4764432.shtml
Feb 3, 2009 - 10:05 am 41. Andrea:This women is THE POSTER CHILD for forced sterilization. If she could support them on her own fine but if we the people are supporting this family then her birthing days are OVER!
Feb 3, 2009 - 10:15 am 42. TalkinKamel:Hmmmm, is all I can say. . . http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1131343/Mother-octuplets-worked-IVF-clinic.html
Feb 3, 2009 - 10:28 am 43. deguello:All hail the new stakhanovite heroine of the democratic party! What a vote getter! NO job,no husband;she whelps 14 welfare dependent(probably brain-damaged)little bastards),all future democrats,whom she’ll neglect into dysfunction,necessitating veritable army of well-paid liberal psychologists,special ed. teachers,social workers and other professinal compassionates.To say nothing of the police,judges, prisons and other services that await these precious little bundles of future social pathology!What a force multiplier,for the democratic party! The paradox is that conservatives oppose abortion,,and liberals favore it. Go figure!
Feb 3, 2009 - 11:12 am 44. TalkinKamel:One of the thing that bothers me about this story is how the mother seems to have no real life. She has no boyfriends, nor, apparently, any plans to marry, or even date. There’s no mention of her being gay, or having a same-sex partner. She may, or may not, have an ex husband, but he seems to be nowhere around at the moment.
She’s supposedly a student, but has no close friends, or wider family, such as aunts, uncle, cousins (at least that we’ve heard about). And, if she is a student, she certainly doesn’t seem to have any close connections to classmates, teachers or any clubs or college groups.
She’s not old, not disabled, but she has no life of her own, and seemingly never did, even when she was younger. She lives with her parents, and has no other ambition or desire than producing kids, like a brood animal. This is not normal. Either she’s lying about her real motivations, or she’s been brainwashed into thinking this a good way to live, and either way, to paraphrase Judy Tenuta—”Why isn’t somebody investigating these guys?”
Her life consists of a small house in Whittier, with her mom, dad, and far more children than she can possibly keep track of, let alone form any kind of relationship with. She’s not a mother, she’s a walking baby-factory. This is astounding for a supposedly well-educated, intelligent female, who’se lived in the free USA!
Feb 3, 2009 - 11:15 am 45. Patti:TalkinKamel I’m with you….This could be political. Sadaam Hussein paid 25K to suicide bomber families. That is a fact nobody disputes. Maybe some radical Islam took his model and applied it.
Feb 3, 2009 - 11:29 am 46. deguello:This woman has no real brain,let alone a real life,but as a breeder of democrat imbeciles,she has no equal,the DNC should send a team of doctors to get her to whelp some more of these parasites,and then do outreach in the nation’s cities to see whwther they can replicate this fecund welfare dependent replicator:the more dysfunctional little bastards, the more future democrats there will be!
Feb 3, 2009 - 11:45 am 47. river:Follow the money…and we’ll get to the answer.
Feb 3, 2009 - 12:00 pm 48. Peter the Bubblehead:24. Laura wrote:
This woman is a nutcase who should have her tubes tied for the benefit of not only her kids, but for the poor tax-paying slobs who will be paying to support them.
Peter writes: At the risk of being called evil and all, I have to say I wholeheartedly agree with your comment, Laura. However, there are those on the ACLU side who would be quick to claim this woman has the right to decide how many childen she has or doesn’t have and the state has no right to dictate what she can and cannot do, and to call for her tubes to be tied or any other method that would prevent her from having further ‘future cases of abuse’ (ie, children) would equate you and I and many on this thread as fascists.
Feb 3, 2009 - 12:42 pm 49. Peter the Bubblehead:44. TalkinKamel wrote:
She’s not a mother, she’s a walking baby-factory. This is astounding for a supposedly well-educated, intelligent female, who’se lived in the free USA!
Peter asks: Has anyone on the thread heard anything about how this story is being reported overseas? Is it getting the ‘amazing story – 8 live births’ like it did here for the first few days or is the foreign news taking a darker tone with this story?
Feb 3, 2009 - 12:58 pm 50. Dr. Mark:SAMBO HUX….nice to see you TROLLING here again!! And yet again, your lack of intellect is exceeded only by your venomous arrogance. How about heading back to MoveOn or Huffington where an imbecile like you belongs.
Feb 3, 2009 - 1:18 pm 51. Ann:I agree that this is a strange story. I read somewhere that at least one of her older children is autistic, which makes this situation even more difficult. I feel terrible saying this, but I wonder if the mother got this idea frim watching some of those reality shows on TLC or the Discovery channel chronicling the day-to-day existence of these families with multiples. I wonder if this poor soul watched these shows and thought to herself, “Wow, this looks hectic and crazy, but fun.” And then she thought, “Maybe I could do this, and get paid for it, too!” I keep seeing glimpses of these shows (my ten year old daughter loves them), and the parents seem to work hard with the kids, but significantly, they never seem to have jobs. Maybe this mother thought, “This is an easy way out”, without really thinking this whole thing through. Just my hypothesis.
Feb 3, 2009 - 2:25 pm 52. Ann:One other thought-what about this David Solomon guy? Can he be held somewhat responsible? Alternatively-what about the fertility clinic? Don’t they share some of the blame? All those tiny babies smushed into a uterus-it would be a miracle if they all turn out OK.
Feb 3, 2009 - 2:28 pm 53. heathermc:Quite apart from the economic, medical, social aspects of this story, Phyllis, this is like the old saw about pornography: you know it when you see it. And having octuplets via artificial means is DISGUSTING.
Feb 3, 2009 - 2:29 pm 54. Little Banana:Peter tB – over here (Ireland) we’re getting the “amazing story” angle. Funnily though, when I was watching it on the telly, I said to my friend, “I bet this lady is a welfare recipient” (actually I’m paraphrasing myself, as my exact words really shouldn’t be put in print….). Not sure why I thought that, seeing how expensive IVF is. The whole story – he has six other children, worked in a fertility clinic, the fact she is Palestinian – while being reported, is no where near the front pages. Funny that
Feb 3, 2009 - 2:36 pm 55. TalkinKamel:Ann, I’m not sure of the time-line, but, seeing as she’s already had six children by in vitrio before this latest batch of kids, it sounds as if she’s been at this for a while—long before any of those reality shows came out.
It also doesn’t explain why she keeps going the single mother route, instead of finding a husband and settling down; the couples in all those TLC/Discovery programs are all married, as I recall.
Even if one of those shows did influence her twisty little brain, that wouldn’t explain why her parents would go along with it, or how she got the money to pay for such an expensive procedure, more than once! (Remember, she already had six children before this!) That family is supposedly bankrupt.
I think a more likely hypothesis is that: A. She’s mentally unstable; B. So are her parents, who are encouraging this, and. . .
c. I agree with Patti and Fred; I think there could be a political angle here. I think someone should take River’s advice, and follow the money.
Feb 3, 2009 - 2:44 pm 56. TalkinKamel:Yes, Little Banana, the whole story sounds pretty funny to me!
Again, to paraphrase Judy Tenuta, “Why isn’t someone investigating these guys?”
I also find the autism angle troubling. Autism is always bad, but I can’t help but recall that those who recruit homicide bombers have targeted downs syndrome and autistic/disabled kids in the past.
Feb 3, 2009 - 2:49 pm 57. TalkinKamel:Look, multiple births are always rare. It’s even rarer for a woman—a single woman, at that!—to choose to give birth repeatedly, using in vitrio fertilization! Really, there are these creatures out there called “Men”; they make great husbands and lovers, and if you really want babies, well. . .
I think single motherhood is bad, but it usually occurs because the single mom in question is unwed, but still enjoys the company of those above-referenced men-creatures; and most single moms don’t repeatedly produce multiple births.
This is obviously not what’s going on herel I don’t know what is, but I wish somebody could get the definitive story on this woman’s alleged former husband (assuming he exists), and the state of her first six children.
Feb 3, 2009 - 2:58 pm 58. RodBlago:The first 6 probably got too big to cuddle.
Feb 3, 2009 - 3:14 pm 59. Anonimous:Single mother Suliman, a “Palestinian” Arab – (many Arabs claim to be “Palestinian” that are not to promote themselves as victims, just as the truth of “Palestinians” origins most likely Saudi Arabian have been obliterated to promulgate lies suitable to indoctrinate infidels)- who birthed octuplets in addition to already having several sets of twins in the care of her parents – it appears for profit. Or a not so hidden agenda if one connects the dots?
Certainly not a singular instance in the exploitation of children in the Moslem world. How odd a culture that demonstrates with every terrorist attack its contempt for life, rearing children to hate non-Moslems, and strapping bombs to its own in order to destroy “infidels” – has in the person of Ms. Suliman using American inventiveness and advanced fertility technologies brought more Moslem children into the world? In the country of the infidel.
In exchange we have seen the importation of honor killings of girl children on American soil, the practice of female mutilation, converting prison inmates to Islam, establishment of terrorist cells, the perpetration of terrorism on our soil, dare we even say Islamic terrorism (?). As well the infiltration of academia and educational institutions for purpose of advancing Moslem agenda. Deligitimizing the existence of Israel as portal to larger targets, establishment of financial schemes to support Islamic terrorists and organizations abroad (CAIR) and the USA. An Islamic infrastructure both needled throughout America’s government and non-governmental organizations. Islam exists in parallel to democracy while working to destroy it. How much of American dollars go into this “planned abortion” of America? Does the public get the existance of a parallel context? Islam?
Perhaps there are journalists willing to uncover whether Ms. Suliman herself has been subjected to female mutilation, since 2 of the octuplets are girls, will they as well? Does she bring the children to a doctor that serves the Moslem community and if so practiced in female mutilation as well as opening the sutures of the Moslem girl child has had in place since “the procedure” at age 3, in some countries age 5. These are all legitimate questions especially given that Ms. Suliman and the family are likely to be supported by the American tax payer. Therefore, the question Americans are entitled to ask is whether the girls among her brood are safe from this barbaric Moslem practice?
One can only wonder?
Does Ms. Suliman’s production of in-vitro children on the American taxpayer dole (or that of the UK, Netherlands, Belgium, France, Sweden, Denmark, et cetera) point to the larger above outlined scheme?
Curious
Feb 3, 2009 - 3:33 pm 60. janie from anderson:Abortion advocates have to pull this kind of ridiculous argument out of their fevered imaginations because there really is no rational defense for their position of on-demand abortion, which is a pernicious choice, and which is not a right by any objective standard. The notion that limiting abortion is somehow coercive is as false a conclusion as assuming that fecundity could be.
to cheeflo number 30..
This situation is actually a derivative “pro-choice” argument which enshrines choice, no matter how bad a choice, over what is right.
Pregnancy is a direct result of a purposeful act, which, not incidentally, is also a choice. Feminist paranoia and victim mentality are obvious in your line of thinking.
i am pro choice. because i believe all women of childbearing age are capable of making personal decisions on their own..or with the help of some trusted friend or relative who will help but not coerce a decision.
and some acts the result in pregnancy are most certainly NOT with permission….rape and incest are never permissible.
this woman seems to be mentally challenged when it comes to child birth…i can’t imagine any woman, married or single, who whould seriously contemplate giving birth to eight children all at once.
i also think that the money trail should be followed to find out exactly who paid for the invetro proceedures. perhaps that person could then be held responsible for financially careing for the children that was created by his/her pocketbook.
Feb 3, 2009 - 3:40 pm 61. Marie Claude:like the money system went dizzy, the social moral did either, seems it ’s a nowadays malaise, there aren’t anymore rules, nullepart, irgendwo, nowhere…
this woman is a cow, no more, no less and might prefigure what the humanity will get as children from a laying hen : some tank meat, some industry serfs… uh, I don’t think that a state will still for a longtime bear them without a fonction, cuz of the recession, depression, bankrupt… so, these kids have no hope, better some charitable persons adopt them
Feb 3, 2009 - 5:08 pm 62. Bug Eye Guy:This goes to the music of COTTON EYE JOE
Hee Haw, Hee Haw
Suliman she’s real happy
Suliman she’s real glad
Suliman had eight more babies
Social Service will be had
Hee Haw, keep on steppin
Hee Haw , here we go
Hee Haw, keep on steppin
Shake your thing to and fro
She had six before this
Six before this eight
She did it all alone
alone without a mate
Hee Haw, keep on steppin
Hee Haw , here we go
Hee Haw, keep on steppin
Shake your thing to and fro
They’ll grow up soon
and be Jihadis
strapping on bombs
and blowing up bodies
Hee Haw, keep on steppin
Hee Haw, here we go
Hee Haw, keep on steppin
Shake your thing to and fro
She wants ten more
that’s what she said
half live born
the other half dead
Hee Haw, keep on steppin
Hee Haw, here we go
Hee Haw, keep on steppin
Shake your thing to and fro
Ain’t this real fun folks?
Feb 3, 2009 - 5:09 pm 63. TalkinKamel:Anoinimous, it certainly sounds like a scheme of some sort. I wish we could get some real investigating here, instead of all the Oprah fou-fah-rah.
Also, having been born on US soil, these kids would be American citizens, with American passports.
Feb 3, 2009 - 5:40 pm 64. Northern Light:#11 Canuck.
I’m confused about where you are. If you are in the US you might call brain-hemorrhaged patients “Democrats” but I can’t believe that this sort of medical procedure would be funded by the taxpayers down there. It sure isn’t financed by taxpayers in Canada and we have pinko socialist healthcare. Are you saying the US covers this as part of medicare?
I’m pretty sure you aren’t working in Canada because then you would call brain-hemorraged patients “NDP”.
Whatever hospital you work in, I’m glad I don’t have to go there.
Feb 3, 2009 - 5:52 pm 65. TalkinKamel:This article just raises more questions: where is this woman’s ex-husband, supposedly a contractor? Who is this David Solomon, supposedly the father of some of the children, and why is his name so strangely similar to her father’s? How comes nobody can find the fertility doctor, or whether or not this woman’s employed? http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Parenting/Story?id=6784895&page=2
Feb 3, 2009 - 5:54 pm 66. TalkinKamel:. . . Also, the woman’s mother and father are supposedly divorced, but still living together? Huh?
And who paid for her long stay at Kaiser Hospital, and who’se paying them for taking care of the babies now? I’ve had some experience with Kaiser, and they do absolutely nothing unless you’re all paid up, to the very last penny!
Feb 3, 2009 - 6:09 pm 67. cynthia:I don’t know who this target audience is, but these comments sound disturbingly narrow and bigoted. Sounds like a bunch of crabby right wingers kvetching over their depleted retirement accounts. The statements people are making here about this woman are fueled by assumption and worse. Careful about throwing stones.
Feb 3, 2009 - 6:39 pm 68. Northstar:Adoption “a High Risk Enterprise”? I think not. What is the waiting period for adoption. Months maybe years. Your comment belies your bias.
The tax payers should not have to foot the bill and your comment about wealthy people not having the same stresses creates a false standard. Life is not “fair” deal with it.
Feb 3, 2009 - 7:03 pm 69. cedarford:TalkinKamel:
I’m beginning to suspect a political motive; this woman might be some sort of experiment in how many potential jihadis a female can churn out.
I would put some caution on these and other posts assuming the woman is a Palestinian Muslim and there might be a Jihad connection.
Her father appears to be Iraqi. His name is Edward, a Christian name. Her mother’s 1st name is Angela, also a decidedly non-Muslim name.
That said, you will not find much stronger anti-Zionists than Palestinian Christians – who were modest but significant landowners and were the basic merchants amd businessmen of Galilee. Almost all were cleansed off their land in 1948 and offered no compensation or right to return as Christians on land, businesses, and personal property subsequently declared abandoned and “redeemed for Zionist use only”.
They hate Zionists even more than they hate Muslims, and that is saying a lot. And because they are small in number with respect to the cleansed Palestinian Muslims, many resettled and assimilated in the West, they had to ally with Muslims in the struggle against Israel. Israel at this point has stopped being intransigent against Christians and would love to cut a deal, but the Christians who had their lands and businesses and property grabbed will not cut out the Muslims from any deal. That would be suicidal for them..
But the octuplet mother is most likely a Christian or Chaldean of part-Iraqi descent and they have no particular personal beef with the Zionists – perhaps just the general anti-Israel beliefs common in Iraq…
Feb 3, 2009 - 7:38 pm 70. juliet:soloman/suliman the mixinga of arab & jews?. All i can say is good luck not for the children for being being mix ethicinty ?, but for being born in such chaos. The mother did not think of her first six children how is she going to be a mother to them. She should never been accepeted at the clinic then she would never have been “evil”. She might not be “evil” but she is selfish
Feb 3, 2009 - 8:23 pm 71. momof3:careful about throwing stones, #67? Ok everyone, all who have intentionally birthed kids at taxpayer expense, to be raised at taxpayer expense with no father in their life, stop putting her down. The rest of us far more responsible people will continue on. We will continue to throw stones and be judgmental every single time a person in this country considers only their own personal fulfillment, at that moment, and not what’s best or right. And we will do this until people stop thinking only of themselves and their wishes, and start acting at least responsible, if not moral.
Enough of all this “don’t judge other’s stupid decisions” crap.
Feb 3, 2009 - 8:50 pm 72. TalkinKamel:The thing about Middle-Eastern Christians is, they believe in getting married before they have lots of children.
I don’t know what religion these people are, but the whole situation sounds extremely strange. The family is supposedly bankrupt, yet they can afford this long hospital stay, and costly fertilization techniques? And what is the matter with this mother and father, that they continue to support this woman in her demented attempt to give birth to more and more children? And who is the fertility expert who performed the fertiliziation?
It may, or may not be, political; it’s certainly abusive, and not a good environment for raising kids, be it just one or dozens of them. This woman doesn’t need more fertility treatments; she needs a psychiatrist. Her parents, and any foolish fertility experts, really need to called on the carpet for enabling this.
Feb 3, 2009 - 8:55 pm 73. Bilgeman:It’s quite simple, really, and quite harsh…
This woman has a right to do with her body as she wishes, within her means. If someone paid, and she agreed to have 14 children implanted in her uterus, then that’s no business of mine.
I, however, have a right to vote for less taxation, and let each and every one of her Bastards starve to death.
Hopefully, they might gain sustenance by eating their mother, their grandparents, and the staff at the fertility clinic where she was artificially impregnated.
If we REALLY want to end this kind of monstrosity, we MUST reinstate the stigma attached to “Bastardy”.
It’s brutal, granted, but a little brutality can avert an unimaginable amount of suffering.
Feb 3, 2009 - 8:56 pm 74. Peter the Bubblehead:Interesting article on the legal implications of this mess over on Fox.
http://foxforum.blogs.foxnews.com/2009/02/03/napolitano_octuplets/
It does point out one point that has been missing from this thread. Did this woman go in INTENDING to have 8 kids at once? I have heard conflicting reports that she had 8 implants, expecting about half to survive, was expecting 7 at birth and was surprised with an eighth. Has anyone heard any reports that she only had 3 or 4 implants and the fetuses split into twins and triplets?
Feb 4, 2009 - 6:51 am 75. Lauren:Many of the comments seem to be directed at the morality after the decision was made. Where is the responsibility and ethics before anything happened? Physically, from a medical standpoint this was extremely dangerous. A woman’s body is not designed to hold that many babies. From a layman’s standpoint, her body hosted multiples more than once and was already in a weakened condition. Any MD knew and understood this. With the enormous insurance liability costs to OB’s at this current time, where they are not even following their own medical boards advice on labor and delivery for single live births and forcing so many women into unnecessary c-sections out of fear for their own pockets and careers, it is highly suspect the reasons any MD or a team of MD’s would allow this woman with her birth medical history to be implanted with 8 embryos. Anyone who works in the birth world knows the real issue is not in the rights of the woman to do this but the motivation behind it. I smell a rat!
Feb 4, 2009 - 8:10 am 76. momof3:Does it matter if she was expecting 4 , or 7, or 8? She’s jobless, and already had 6 fatherless kids. That’s really all we need to know.
Feb 4, 2009 - 8:57 am 77. Ann:Reading these comments, I’m starting to feel as though the plot has thickened. I was just assuming that this woman got carried away with some crazy romantic idea of having all these kids. Do you guys really think there is a political element to all of this?
I just feel sorry for all of these children. It’s hard enough to do a good job with one or two, much less fourteen. I wonder how she’ll manage on her own.
Feb 4, 2009 - 11:01 am 78. TalkinKamel:I think social services should be looking real hard at this situation. The kids might be better off out of there.
According to some reports, the woman used to work in a fertility clinic. If so, she must have known that all 8 embryos might take, and, if so, that she wasn’t going to abort them.
I’m definitely sniffing eau de rat.
Feb 4, 2009 - 12:29 pm 79. TalkinKamel:As for it being political, I can’t speak for others, but I’m beginning to wonder. Here’s one blogger’s take on it; http://sheikyermami.com/2009/02/04/muslim-mom-of-octuplets-is-not-getting-showered-with-gifts/
Feb 4, 2009 - 12:35 pm 80. TalkinKamel:Even if there isn’t a political element, something isn’t right here. Certainly, whoever implanted this woman with 8 embryos, despite the fact she already had 6 children, and despite all the physical problems inherent in such a procedure (see Lauren’s excellent post #75)has a lot to answer for, as do the brain-dead and/or malicious grandparents, who enabled her to do such a thing. And who paid for all this?
At this point I’m just not buying the Just-wanted-more-babies-loves-kids-ever-so-much story.
Feb 4, 2009 - 12:41 pm 81. Watcher of Weasels » The Emporer Has No Clothes:[...] Submitted By: Right Truth – Chesler Chronicles at Pajamas Media – Octuplets: A Frankenstinian Moment in Modern Obstetrics [...]
Feb 4, 2009 - 12:56 pm 82. candi:since i am a single mother of 5 children (all belong to the same dad) i have the right to speak. i do not agree with her having so many children especially at once. i had one child who was born weighing in at a 1pound and i know what these children are going to face. it`s not very pretty. i know th emother si not oging to be dealing with specialist and everything else on her own. the cost is way to high. so guess what folks. tax payers will be careing for these eight infants..not the mother. she already has a degree in sychology or something like that and she plans on continuing school. when asked how she was paying for school with 6 kids she was quoted as saying the money she gets from the kids are. i think she had so many more to get more public assistance. i think alot of it also has to do with the attention. she is about herself not her children. she had he rhand out for help long before these 8 babies arrived and now its only going to be worse. i think the state should step in and say no we are only going to do this much for you the rest is on you. the state is already paying for her other 6. and from my understanding californians cannot afford 8 more children not to mention 8 special needs children. i think the dr who helped he ran dher family do this should donate his time and money into caring for her brood.
Feb 4, 2009 - 1:07 pm 83. Cheat Seeking Missiles » Being Quick About It - Wednesday Reading:[...] Submitted By: Right Truth – Chesler Chronicles at Pajamas Media – Octuplets: A Frankenstinian Moment in Modern Obstetrics [...]
Feb 4, 2009 - 3:09 pm 84. Ann:Another strange element to this story is the fact that the grandfather, an Iraqui, went back to Iraq to work as a translator. If he knew his daughter was having eight babies at once, you’d figure he’d want to be at home to help-or not. I guess the whole thing is overwhelming. He must need to be in Iraq, dangerous as it is, to earn money to support the group.
This story is just so out there! Does anyone know if the mother and grandparents are citizens? Obviously the children are.
Feb 4, 2009 - 4:22 pm 85. Ann:Another suspicious twist to this is the fact that the new mother had the presence of mind to hire a PR firm after delivering 8 babies. I would think that for most women in this situation, PR would be one of the furthest things from her mind at such a time.
Feb 4, 2009 - 4:29 pm 86. TalkinKamel:Ann, yeah, she was certainly thinking ahead on the PR thing, wasn’t she? And how did she manage to pay for that?
This story is full of suspicious twists. I’m not buying the Aw, she just really, REALLY wants more babies line at this point.
Feb 4, 2009 - 6:03 pm 87. Oscar the Grump:Bubblehead
Feb 4, 2009 - 7:00 pm 88. Smilla:Where have you been? I’ve missed your input. I don’t agree with you on this one. Having kids to be on the dole makes me want to puke.
In fact, I think I want a vasectomy.
And The Daily Mail article TalkinKamel linked to above said she is studying for a masters in – get this – psychology…
She’s a manipulator and I want to know who paid for all her IVF treatments – which are not supposed to be doled out like chocolates.
Feb 4, 2009 - 9:06 pm 89. myth buster:Whoever said anything about having kids to be on the dole? Say what you will about the morality or judgment she exhibited here, but she’s looking to make money off the paparazzi, TV, book deals, etc., not welfare. If she can raise $2 million in exchange for interviews, photos, etc. that people are willing to pay for, what business of yours is it to criticize the cost of these births?
Feb 4, 2009 - 9:50 pm 90. Peter the Bubblehead:Oscar @ #87;
Hey, Oscar. Been busy with real life.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m as against what this woman did as most of the other people on this thread and, like them, want to know where the money for all this came from, what the motivation is, and all that. I’m just trying to get a clear picture of all this, which is pretty hard, considering 90% of the info I’m getting is coming from sites like Pajamas and not from the old Dinosaur Media. To them is seems to be, ‘Hey, this woman had 8 kids at once. Wow! Next story.’
There is more to this than has been exposed at this point.
Feb 5, 2009 - 5:55 am 91. Peter the Bubblehead:89. myth buster wrote:
what business of yours is it to criticize the cost of these births?
Peter responds: Because at this point it appears the care and feeding of 14 kids (not just the 8 recent births, but the 6 that preceded them) are being paid for by the taxpayers of the state of California, which makes it the business of the people of California at the least, and the rest of us American taxpayers in the long run. The paparrazzi isn’t paying for anything right now and there is no sure guarantee that it will happen. Not to mention all the copycats this is likely to dredge up once/if this woman gets her shot on Oprah. You’ll have teenagers from broken families thinking ‘I can get all the love I’m missing and make lots of money if I only have lots and lots of babies.’
This just bodes ill for all of us, and we have every right to make it our business.
Feb 5, 2009 - 6:00 am 92. momof3:Myth Buster, even if she does raise money, which looks doubtful, do you really think she’ll be using it to pay california back? Because california is the one shelling out for the medical care (millions), not to mention all the care of the other kids.
Feb 5, 2009 - 6:55 am 93. He Screwed Up « The Moral Compass:[...] Submitted By: Right Truth – Chesler Chronicles at Pajamas Media – Octuplets: A Frankenstinian Moment in Modern Obstetrics [...]
Feb 5, 2009 - 7:30 am 94. TalkinKamel:And, momof3, you’ve got to remember that while this woman’s getting all the medical care, many patients are being denied care, even life saving drugs, because of lack of insurance, or whatever. Not to mention that, financially, California is in a very bad way at the moment, and yet the taxpayers are being told they must subsidize this neurotic female and her herd of fatherless kids.
It’s our business, because we’re being asked to support this dysfunctional woman—not to mention the potential copycats Peterthebubblehead mentions, once she gets on Oprah, and is hailed as some sort of heroine.
Feb 5, 2009 - 8:04 am 95. Annie:I feel as though I have an unhealthy preoccupation with this story. If I’m really honest with myself, I think it stems from the fact that I always find those cheery stories in the MSM about the “miracle” of multiple births nauseating. Typically when you look at photos years later of these children, there’s always one or two that just don’t look quite right-heavy glasses at the age of three or something. I don’t know-I guess I feel that life is so competitive here in the U.S., you need every advantage possible, and I see being a multiple as not a plus, but something strange, unnatural. I feel so sorry for these kids, because if you’re stuck in a group of people who look just like you, it’s probably hard to feel special.
Feb 5, 2009 - 8:30 am 96. TalkinKamel:However you feel about them, multiple births, (usually just twins), are a part of human biology, albeit a rare one. What bothers me about this particular story, are a number of things:
1. The fact that this woman has no husband, no job, lives at home with her parents, and yet seems compelled to give birth to more and more kids, in multiple batches, which is dangerous both for the mom and the kids.
2. And her own parents, despite some token protests, are unwilling, or unable (or even approve) this course of action she’s taken.
3. AND furthermore, somebody out there—we don’t know who—has paid for this. Why? What motive could they possibly have? Why are the taxpayers being forced to foot the bill for the childrens’ care, especially in these economic hard times?
This seems to me to be something more than just, say, your ordinary birth of multiple kids, Welfare-momism or ordinary single motherhood (which usually involves a man, not in vitrio).
(I don’t think multiple births, or large families, are really what’s at issue here. Sadly, birth defects can happen even in small families, and if you want to experience some real revulsion, an encounter with a spoiled, single child, center-of-their-parents’ attention, made to feel maximum special rich kid from L.A. will certainly provide that! I’ve met some very nice, smart, well-adjusted, and, yes, they felt special kids from big families.)
Feb 5, 2009 - 10:36 am 97. Little Banana:TalkinKamel @94
“you’ve got to remember that while this woman’s getting all the medical care, many patients are being denied care, even life saving drugs, because of lack of insurance, or whatever”
I read in the papers that 46(!) medical personnel attended her at birth. Can anyone confirm whether that is true?
Feb 5, 2009 - 4:48 pm 98. TalkinKamel:According to this article, yes, there were 46: http://cbs2.com/local/octuplets.Bellflower.8.2.919801.html
Feb 5, 2009 - 6:50 pm 99. Oscar the Grump:Word is that she has been soaking the state with a fraudulent workman’s compensation case which she renewed because of an accident. The state is going to take a very close look at her.
Feb 5, 2009 - 7:32 pm 100. Watcher of Weasels » Weasel Winners - Norming Bias And Bigotry:[...] place with 1/3 points!-(T*) -Chesler Chronicles at Pajamas Media – Octuplets: A Frankenstinian Moment in Modern Obstetrics Share and [...]
Feb 6, 2009 - 2:23 am 101. AlexinCT:She is likely just looking for a cool reality TV show and other people’s money. There already was some lady that had 8 kids, and I remember my wife watching some TV show about that. The taxpayers of the state of CA have been screwed. Don’t question her choice! I am also certain we are not getting all the details of this story from the media, because it contains to many elements/pit falls that clearly illustrate what the illogical liberal PC society we have become leads to.
Feb 6, 2009 - 5:33 am 102. Peter the Bubblehead:The closer the better!
Feb 6, 2009 - 5:50 am 103. You might be a conservative if … « The Moral Compass:[...] The best article I have read about this is by Dr. Phyllis Chesler, “Octuplets: A Frankenstinian Moment in Modern Obstetrics“ [...]
Feb 6, 2009 - 8:02 am 104. Annie:Another thing about California and health care: sporadically, there are these terrible stories in the media about hospitals dumping homeless patients without health insurance on skid row. Seems like there’s a real double standard when it comes to a pregnant woman without an income or job and your run-of the mill middle aged or elderly homeless person with cancer or heart disease or something.
Feb 6, 2009 - 9:47 am 105. TalkinKamel:It’s not just California; appears there’s also a double-standard as to which kids born to unmarried mothers deserve sympathy, and which don’t: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,488644,00.html
Feb 6, 2009 - 10:35 am 106. Oscar the Grump:She got her TV interview and its going to be on Monday night. What a charming girl. We should all give her a hand. Let’s all line up now.
Feb 6, 2009 - 11:40 am 107. TalkinKamel:Well, of course they want to present her in the best light, and get us all to buy her book, so maybe some of the money from it will go their way.
Feb 6, 2009 - 12:28 pm 108. TalkinKamel:By the way, this is the same Kaiser that laid off the employee who killed his family, then committed suicide: http://groups.google.com/group/alt.true-crime/browse_thread/thread/89edfbc55788ba6e/4aca357c6d052
Feb 6, 2009 - 12:40 pm 109. TalkinKamel:They have money for the octuplets, not for their workers?
Feb 6, 2009 - 12:40 pm 110. TalkinKamel:Actually, seems to be a different Kaiser—of course, it’s all the same system, and Kaiser will not treat you if you aren’t paid up. Again, this begs the question, who’se paying for all this?
Feb 6, 2009 - 12:42 pm 111. Bilgeman:#98 TalkinKamel:
“According to this article, yes, there were 46:”
They might have been selling tickets…
“Whoops! Here’s ANOTHER one!”
“How many does that make? Is this some kind of game show?”
“I gotta call my brother-in-law! Bobo! Get down here, you ain’t gonna BELIEVE what I’m seeing”
“Hot Dogs! Peanuts! Cold Beer! Get yah Hot Dogs! Peanuts! Cold Beer!”
Feb 6, 2009 - 1:19 pm 112. Annie:Has anybody seen the interview? I viewed snippets, but I can’t hear anything (my speakers aren’t working). If you did see it, I’d be curious to hear what she sounded like–did the mother sound normal? She looks like a regular person. What was your impression?
Feb 6, 2009 - 1:32 pm 113. Oscar the Grump:I heard a snippet. She did sound normal and presented well. However, if you think about what she says in context with what she did, she’s a total lune.
Feb 6, 2009 - 2:13 pm 114. TalkinKamel:Bilge, it sounds like the clown car at the circus!
And who paid for all these 46 medicos?
Oscar, look at what she actually says—when she talks about how she felt empty, and was hurt by being an only child, and how she was always depressed. The woman’s seriously unbalanced, just as many have already guessed.
Feb 6, 2009 - 3:14 pm 115. digg » Blog Archive » Eight Is Not Enough? The Big Families We Love to Hate:[...] it – Middle Eastern in fact." Conservative blogger Phyllis Chesler took these insinuations a few steps farther, swiftly dispatching with the makeup of America’s most prominent pronatalist activists – [...]
Feb 6, 2009 - 3:23 pm 116. Oscar the Grump:This is just in, she is being questioned by the State Medical Board to see if the fertility clinic violated any of the state guidelines.
Here are some facts, The board allows only two implants to be made in a woman under the age of 35, Suleman is 33. She openly stated that the clinic implanted 6 embryos and that two divided with two sets of identical twins.
I believe every word this is saying even though she is a workman’s comp. recipient and that her actions about continuing as one are highly questionable. Also that having children, aggrevated her medical condition. She should be entitled to have 10 children at a time and have us pay for it. What a wonderful lady.
Feb 6, 2009 - 5:32 pm 117. Oscar the Grump:Excuse me everyone, I’m looking for a star in the easr.
Feb 6, 2009 - 5:34 pm 118. Oscar the Grump:excuse my typo that was east
Feb 6, 2009 - 5:35 pm 119. Peter the Bubblehead:I hate to say it, but considering this entire family is on the public dole as it is, it might be better for EVERYONE concerned if this woman’s brood were just simply put up for adoption to be raised by families that can both afford to and provide the love and care these kids are going to need. And then this woman needs to be slapped with a court order telling her she can’t have any more kids unless she is married and capable of supporting any kids she may have, the natural way, on her and her husband’s own.
I’m not saying a law should be passed to prevent single women from having kids, but this nutcase has already proved that she in particular is incapable of making an informed decision.
Feb 7, 2009 - 7:19 am 120. Jobs for Citizens? Imagine that. « The Moral Compass:[...] Fifth place with 1/3 points!-(T*) -Chesler Chronicles at Pajamas Media – Octuplets: A Frankenstinian Moment in Modern Obstetrics [...]
Feb 7, 2009 - 7:46 am 121. the_moll:“… pales in comparison to that of outlawed,
break-away Mormon and law-abiding Muslim men
who practice polygamy.”
Why did you take time to write these modifiers for Mormon and Muslim polygamists?
Feb 7, 2009 - 8:37 am 122. Unmarried nonwhite woman’s crapload of babies not considered “little gifts from God” « Hate On Me—An exploration of all things hateful and ignorant:[...] Columnists and talking heads have taken their shots at Suleman, too. Phyllis Chesler called Suleman’s baby-bearing “a Frankenstinian moment.” [...]
Feb 7, 2009 - 9:06 am 123. Nancy Gough Riley:Phyllis, I have read your article twice, and went through all comments. Where did this lead me? I’m wanting to find out myself, so here I am writing because I usually learn alot from what I end up writing.
Feb 9, 2009 - 10:14 am 124. Unmarried nonwhite woman’s crapload of babies not considered “little gifts from God” at Racialicious - the intersection of race and pop culture:We’re all trying to deal with this event. One day we’re all going about our daily lives, dealing with our various daily struggles, and all of a sudden there is a new’s flash that a woman has just given birth to 8 babies! I’m sure that many first reactions were probably similar to mine – WOW! Whoa! then “WHY?” There are many questions that are being asked. We deserve an answer to a few of them, simply because as American citizens we are responsible for the well-being of our children. This is our responsibility. The babies are here, there’s no giving them back to God, and since we acknowledge they are here, with us on this earth, what do we do? The next question has been brought up in several other comments,(sorry I can’t name the contributors). Where did the money come from for this extremely expensive procedure of the invitro-fertilization?
Beyond that, I can’t pass any judgment, speculate as to “who is behind this,” determine whether this woman is stable or not, etc., etc., etc. I seem to be using that a lot in my writing today. It all just seems to go on and on, but where is it going? Are people serious in what they’re blogging? How many are just ranting and raving out of control? I know that I’m not alone in wanting facts and answers, but to presume that I should go with my suspicions is not only self-defeating, but I can either contribute to the chaos in our world, or try to act like an adult, which I am, and try to do my part as a responsible citizen, and mother, who by the way is presently seeking help for herself and her own daughter. (Yeah, I’m the one who just found out about Parental Alienation Syndrome for the first time, involving my 30 year old, Catherine, whom I haven’t seen in 8 years. We’re all connected. I wish we could pull together, and truly be there for those in need.
[...] Columnists and talking heads have taken their shots at Suleman, too. Phyllis Chesler called Suleman’s baby-bearing “a Frankenstinian moment.” [...]
Feb 10, 2009 - 3:11 am 125. TalkinKamel:Nadya Suleman is in need of psychiatrist. She doesn’t need more kids, and she doesn’t need a life supported by taxpayers.
Feb 10, 2009 - 7:15 am 126. mz:They need to investigate this woman. She obviously milking the system as much as she can. They need to lock her up and she needs to stop obsessing over Angelina Jolie. She claimed that she didn’t have any plastic surgery but then again her old picture looks so much diffent. I think that “DUCK LIPS SHE HAD NEEDS TO GET INFLATED IT LOOKS LIKE AN ASS OF AN ANIMAL”. Those children needs some caring adoptees.
Feb 12, 2009 - 4:50 pm