Breaking News! The Buffalo beheader, a man who allegedly goes by many names, may have a history of domestic violence with other, previous wives.
Can a man who has a track record of serious domestic violence, in one marriage after the next, also, at the end of the day, suddenly commit an honor murder? Can a man who has had several wives who left him because of his violence, then “snap,” and behead the last wife standing when she, too, leaves?
Stay tuned because we are going to be wrestling with precisely these questions as the details of the case against Muzammil Hassan or Syed Muzammil Hassan or Steve Mo Hassan begins to emerge.
Earlier today, I received an email from one Jordan Robinson who sent me to a blogsite which belongs to Zarqa Abid. First, Abid says that:
“It’s been five days now that my family along with the rest of the community has been in shock. The fact that Muzzammil was married to my first cousin before marrying the victim still horrifies us. Ms. Zubair was his third wife. Both of his earlier wives filed divorce on the same grounds of severe domestic violence and abuses.”
Is this true? I don’t know. So far, I could find no documented history of domestic violence (which does not mean it did not happen). There is only Zarqa’s late-in-the-day word on this–and the February 6, 2009 order of protection obtained by Aasiya Z. Hassan.
Is Abid’s account an attempt on the part of the Islamic community to cut Hassan loose? Perhaps, for Abid goes on to say that Hassan was not a religious Muslim, that he used and perhaps stole from the Muslim community to fund a fabulous lifestyle for himself, and that she, Abid, tried, unsuccessfully, to alert the Muslim community to Hassan’s violent nature.
This could be true. Most whistleblowers have a hard time alerting communities to the corruption and misogyny of their idealized leaders. But is it true? What interest in the matter might Abid have?
I googled her. Abid is described as someone who wears a face veil and justifies doing so–even though she herself is a television media professional. Perhaps Abid is telling the God’s honest truth. Perhaps this is a new form of taqqiya, disinformation, so that the Muslim community can back away, with some dignity intact, from this formerly prominent Muslim leader who has now been exposed as a wife beater and, allegedly, as a wife killer.
Perhaps approaching me was clever and deceitful. Maybe this is Abid’s way of “defending the faith.” Perhaps it was whole-hearted, broken-hearted.
I asked my colleague, the Arabist and psycho-analyst, Dr. Nancy Kobrin whether she thought a man who had “allowed” two abused wives to get away without murdering them, could now commit an honor murder/or a western-style femicide. She said:
“This was possibly the second or third failed marriage. He knew, he feared that he was going to be found out.”
If so, Hassan could not live with that and Aasiya had to pay for his shameful exposure.
Daniel Pipes has been following this story, HERE.
According to Pipes, “One Salma Zubair posted at BlogTalkRadio.com the following statement:
I am sister of this brutally murdered woman. She lived her 8 years of married life with fear in heart. She never let it come to her eyes or lips she was this afraid of this man. He had already frightened her enough that she couldn’t muster up her guts and leave him, and when she finally did gather that much strength he killed her so brutally. She lived to protect her children from this man and his family and she died doing so. Muzzamil Hassan’s family including his parents and brothers never tried to help Aasiya. Even when he had hit her and bruised her body badly in front of them. Aasiya had always been a very loving person, not even one person in this world can say a small wrong word about her. … And please make a special pray for her children and that they do not have to live with that family who’s son killed their mother and they never helped her but rather supported their son.”
All you bloggers and reporters out there: Please help with this task. And stay tuned.
Was Aasiya Z. Hassan the victim of an honor murder or was this simply a form of domestic violence? Did her husband kill her in an act of spontaneous passion or was her death carefully premeditated?
Yesterday, I published my study: “Are Honor Killings Simply Domestic Violence?” in Middle East Quarterly. To the best of my knowledge, it is the first such study of its kind. You may read it in full HERE. It will be out in hardcopy at the beginning of March.
If we refuse to understand what an honor killing is and how it differs from western-style domestic violence, we will not be able to prosecute honor killers, grant asylum to those in flight from being honor murdered, nor will we be able to educate people against honor killing. Many Muslim-American organizations insist that honor killing is “Un-Islamic.” Yet, many scholars of Islam equally assert that the Qu’ran as well as custom permits grave punishment for “disobedient” women.
An honor killing does not only involve the misogynist control, isolation, soul-degradation and physical battering of a woman– although such abuse may precede an honor killing. An honor killing ends in the girl or woman’s murder. Most domestic violence in the West does not. An honor killing is a family-enabled and culturally and religiously approved form of “femicide.”
If a twenty-first century woman disobeys 7th-8th century Arab peninsula standards for female behavior, even slightly, or if she has been raped, she, not the rapist, is the one who has “dishonored” the family. She can be killed for this. Although Sikhs and Hindus do sometimes honor murder their women, in the West, this is mainly a Muslim crime. In my study, which looked at honor killings in North America and Europe, 90% of the honor murderers were Muslims as were their victims. Honor killings are mainly a Muslim-on-Muslim crime.
Not every honor killing in the West is exactly alike. A classical honor killing usually involves a young girl or women (between the ages of 14-25). She is killed by her father, perhaps with the active or passive collusion of her mother, sisters, brothers, male cousins, and neighbors. Her crime may be daring to go about unveiled, wanting to wear makeup, refusing to marry her first cousin, wanting to go to college, deciding to leave an abusive husband, choosing a non-Muslim boyfriend or a Muslim boyfriend from the wrong class or family.
In half of the honor killings I studied, the murders were particularly gruesome and barbaric and involved stabbing the women 8-23 times, setting her on fire, first raping her, then immolating her, slashing her throat, decapitating her. The ferocity of the violence is equivalent to what serial killers do to prostituted women who are strangers to them or what Islamic terrorists do to stranger-infidels.
In 1999, in St. Clairsville Ohio, an honor killing took place which somewhat resembles the one in Buffalo. The husbands in Ohio and New York are both Pakistani immigrants. In Ohio, Nawas Ahmed, an estranged Pakistani husband, outraged that his wife, Dr. Lubaina Bhatti Ahmed, 39-years-old, had gotten an order of protection and was suing him for divorce, arrived at her home and slashed her throat–and for good measure, the throats of her father, sister, and her sister’s child because they were there to support Dr. Lubaina in her attempt to flee a dangerously violent man. Similarly, Aasiya Z. Hassan was 37 years-old and reportedly an architect or professionally involved in her husband’s Muslim media venture.
I suggest that the murder of an adult spouse is another, somewhat less frequent kind of honor killing. Both Nawaz Ahmed and Muzamill Hassan had wives who wanted to live violence-free lives. This is a western concept, not a Muslim or Pakistani concept. From the Islamic point of view, the wives “knew what they were doing” and thus may be viewed as having brought their deaths on themselves.
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98 Comments
1. MikeH:Here’s more info on this case from today’s Buffalo News:
http://www.buffalonews.com/home/story/581540.html
And this from that article: “An open community forum on the issue is scheduled from 3 to 6 p. m. Sunday at the UB (U. of Buffalo) Law School’s Moot Court on the North Campus in Amherst, she said. Imam Fajri Ansari, the leader of a Buffalo mosque, and other experts on Islam are scheduled to attend…”
I wonder how that “we should not indulge in cultural stereotypes” meme will go in this event.
Feb 17, 2009 - 2:53 pm 2. MikeH:Also, the Buffalo News, at least it’s editors and columnists, and apparently “letter” writers, don’t appear to be “rushing to judgment” here, but, then again, if you look down in the lower right-hand corner to see what the “most viewed,” “most emailed,” and “most saved” stories are you see there might be a disconnect here.
Feb 17, 2009 - 3:00 pm 3. joeblough:http://www.buffalonews.com/opinion/index.html
Bravo.
Much needed work and well done. I will be forwarding the http address of the full text along to quite a few people.
Feb 17, 2009 - 3:27 pm 4. iammefrommiami:I see this being talked about on one feminist blog that I read, but they are putting it in the “domestic violence” category and consider the Islamic part irrelevent. I wonder if they would ignore the religious factor if there was a pattern of fundamental xtian types killing women (and men) in this way. But by the same token I wonder if rightwing republicans blogs would be concerned about this abuse of women if it didn’t help them to demonize muslims. Anyway in your case you cared about women before it helped rightwingers demonize muslims and you still care. Good work and thanks.
Feb 17, 2009 - 3:37 pm 5. Robert J. Avrech:Fine and necessary work. Linked here:
http://www.seraphicpress.com/archives/2009/02/they_are_here.php
Feb 17, 2009 - 4:00 pm 6. Marcia Pappas, President of NOW NYS:Phyllis. This a wonderfully educational article.
I had an interesting conversation with a woman today who claimed she was a “caucasian” Muslim, and insisted that honor killings only happened when the wife tried to leave her husband for another man. My heart went out to her, because sadly she believed what she was saying. She talked on and on barely allowing me to get a word in, and if I tried to talk and give my view, she talked louder and faster. This was in my opinion, her way of covering up or probably denying what was happening to Muslim women around the world and in this country.
We are in for a long, uphill battle but I am in this for long haul with you and other feminists who want to tell the truth about women’s lives.
Feb 17, 2009 - 4:09 pm 7. John Peter Maher:An Armenian friend of mine, an oral surgeon, watched a flim of a decapitation. I couldn’t. As a surgeon he’s somewhat inured to the cutting. The technique, he told me, is not quick and clean like the guillotine, the samurai sword or Henry VIII’s headsman’s broad axe. It’s sawing and takes several minutes of hard work. In the Serbian villages outside Srebrenica decapitation and impaling of Christians (Serbs) were practiced by Nasir Oric (freed by the Hague Tribunal). Daniel Pearl wote that the story of a massacre there by Serbs of “7000-8000 Muslim men and boys” was a fake.
Feb 17, 2009 - 4:27 pm 8. Eleanor Pam:One of the powerful triggers that domestic violence shares with honor killings is the attempt by female partners to separate or divorce. It is easy to confound the two, because this predicate to family violence is so profoundly similar in both acts. But they are not the same at all.
It is also not necessary for a batterer to commit acts of abuse in an obvious fit of rage, which is normally how the public imagines such people. There are actually two basic domestic violence personalities: pit bulls and cobras. The latter, like those who generally commit honor killings, are deliberative, cold, calculating and manipulative. They take their time and plot their opportunity.
It seems to me that the transferring of shame is at the heart of honor killings: The female does something which is received by the family as shameful, but more keenly experienced as a shame which attaches to them unfairly as family members. In performing an honor killing, the sin is recalibrated and a moral homeostasis is created; shame is transferred back to the victim, which belonged to her in the first place. It’s an act of extreme purgation, of purification–this ridding of the shame and of the shamer–and the eternal dance by aggressors to claim victimhood. victim.
Feb 17, 2009 - 4:38 pm 9. SantaFeK:Ms Chesler,
Your Middle East Quarterly article was excellent, and the article above is likewise. Your leadership and courage on this issue are much admired. It is distressing that feminists (and others) can avert their eyes, be PC, be tolerant to “multicultural relativism,” not want to get involved with “religious” beliefs, and yet protest about “domestic” violence (a dumbed-down term.) Marcia Pappas (applause for her stand too) is right–we are in for a long haul, but with publicity, information, and, yes, solidarity, I believe we can do some good.
This is about America too: Who are we? What are we about? What are our values? What are our laws? Do we allow incursions of Sharia Law as has happened in European countries?
Thank you very much for putting faces on this women hatred. Terribly sad.
Feb 17, 2009 - 7:06 pm 10. George Jochnowitz:The perpetrators of honor murders are cruel and vicious. Saying this is not enough. We should add that they are also very stupid. Their faith has turned them into idiots.
Feb 17, 2009 - 7:18 pm 11. Nancy Gough Riley:Yes, there is a distinction, but not really a difference between the Muslim fanatic and the “kyriocentric beliefs” that throughout the Christian institutions around the world are still advocating the philosophies of Plato and Aristotle as the justification of “patriarchalism.” By whatever defense, the woman is dead, and the man, even one who experienced psychological rage, feels that he had a right to do what he did. CNN is trying to emphasize the Buffalo slaying as “barbaric and savage.” More close to home, didn’t the American Natives fall into this category, and their actions were different from white men?
Feb 18, 2009 - 12:36 am 12. Fern Sidman:“As Aristotle has it, frre-born women as well as slave women and men are not able to’rule’ because of their deficient, inferior natures.” IN MEMORY OF HER, by Elisabeth Schussler Fiorenza, Krister Stendahl Professor of Divinity at Harvard Divinity School, 1983. I like the quest for solidarity that women are trying to adhere to.
“We are together, my child and I.
Mother and child, yes,
but sisters really,
against whatever denies us
all that we are” (Alice Walker)
Praise and accolades to Dr. Chesler for her doughty efforts to elucidate the record and call this grizzly murder as it is: another case of Muslim honor killing in the West. Her meticulously researched article that appears in the Middle East Quarterly and her remarkably accurate analysis of the cultural and psychological trends of Muslim honor killings should give us all pause.
In her interview with Joshua Rhett Miller of FOX News, Dr. Chesler sounds a clarion call to the inherent dangers of honor killings in the West and how they effect the future of our security and of our civilization as we know it.
Tragically however, statements made by “Rabbi” Brad Hirschfield, who is the president of CLAL– The National Jewish Center for Learning and Leadership attempt to whitewash the true motivation behind this murder. Not coincidentally, Hirschfield hosts an interfaith TV series entitled “Building Bridges: Abrahamic Perspectives on the World Today,” airing on Bridges TV (American Muslim TV Network).
Hirschfield admonishes us when he says, “”I will only say to those who leap to the conclusion that this kind of thing is intrinsic to Islam, ask yourselves if you think that drunkenness is intrinsic to Irish Catholics, or cheating in business is to Jews?” Hirschfield sits in abject terror that he will appear as a “racist” or Islamo-phobe if abandons his own version of multicultural relativism and admits that honor killings are indeed intrinsic to Islam.
Sure, we all know that not all Muslims engage in honor killings, just as we know that not all Irish Catholics are drunk and not all Jews cheat in business, but Hirschfield’s reluctance to label this horrific crime an honor killing displays not only contempt for women but his abysmally ignorant perspective on an ominous phenomenon that threatens to engulf us. And that means other Muslims, Irish Catholics, Jews and all other infidels.
Feb 18, 2009 - 12:40 am 13. Pajamas Media » Cold, Premeditated, Ritual Murder: The Honor Killing of Aasiya Z. Hassan, Part II:[...] Read the entire piece here. [...]
Feb 18, 2009 - 3:58 am 14. GED:#4; “right-wingers demonize Muslims”
??????
Feb 18, 2009 - 5:40 am 15. Richard Cook:Aren’t Muslims doing that to themselves? It matters not at all what your frame of reference is politically; left, right, up, down, forward, backward, in ,out…the practice is barbaric and should especially be considered so by the supposedly enlightened progressive liberal mind. The lack of cultural understanding argument is a ploy by the same. The practice and system of law should be demonized and should find no home in the USA. Any effort to ACLUize the practice is just another attempt to force moral relativism onto our society.
Ms Riley clearly inhabits another planet. She cannot accept the fact that Christian theology does not advocate the killing of women or the beating of women. It’s all situational ethics to you isn’t it? It’s horrible that this woman had her head sawed off BUT……
Feb 18, 2009 - 5:55 am 16. Juke:We import backwards 3rd world cultures into our country & then act surprised when they act like they’re from backwards 3rd world cultures.
Feb 18, 2009 - 5:56 am 17. Terry Gain:“This was not a crime of passion or even of temporary insanity. This was a cold, cruel, premeditated act of ritual murder.”
—-
Agreed, but it was reported on the weekend that this Muslim explainist – who obviously didn’t believe his own propaganda – has been charged with second degree murder. Is this case being prosecuted by a dhimmi.
—–
“A Note to Any Possible Critics:
As someone who has studied both domestic violence and honor killings in the West, I view myself as a pro-Muslim as well as a pro-woman advocate.”
——
Sorry you can’t be both. You are in denial.
—-
“In this instance, the victims who are of concern to me are mainly Muslim girls and women. The fact that their killers may also be Muslims does not mean that those who study honor killings are “racists,” unless, of course, you are far more worried that the Muslim killers of Muslim women will tarnish the reputation of Islam and/or are being unfairly targeted by “racist Islamophobes.”
——-
My goodness why do you have to defend yourself for reporting the truth? Let Muslims defend a religion that provides the rationale for this barbarism.
Stop it now or you are an enabler.
Feb 18, 2009 - 6:05 am 18. Terry Gain:Errata
Strike: Let Muslims defend a religion
Replace with: Let Muslims defend a way of life (or political/religious/ social system.
Feb 18, 2009 - 6:08 am 19. canuck:Perpetrators of these “Honor” killings do not fit into our society and the solution to the problem is not the liberal psychological analysis, but brutal public reprisal by society. A public execution by dropping this guy in a vat of boiling pork fat would still be too good for him, but will send the message and make the rest of us feel a little better.
This needs to be accompanied by deportation of all relatives up to the second cousins to a society where they can practice their medieval savagery without impacting our civilization.
Unfortunately this guy is in New York and will probably receive six months probation and 100 hours of community service. Now in Florida or Texas….
Feb 18, 2009 - 6:15 am 20. vivo:Another sad example of how RELIGION is used as an excuse for killing a human being.
Feb 18, 2009 - 6:16 am 21. Cato:There is simply no place in America for anyone who is not willing to accept our laws and standards.
Feb 18, 2009 - 6:50 am 22. Doubting David:I have lived in the Muslim world for upwards of 40 years. I maintain a home in Egypt (in a small village outside a larger town), speak Arabic fluently and am certainly sympatico with the prevailing cultural ethos, in the sense that I believe I understand it well, but certainly do not subscribe to its values. In my village wife-beating is common, and is universally defended as enjoined by the Quran. Indeed it is (see sura 4:34). This horrible case casts doubt on the “reason” often encountered among apologists that only the ignorant and uneducated (or those who “misunderstand” Islam) engage in such activities. Yes, it is only one case, but I believe it provides evidence that a broad swathe of Muslim opinion (educated people as well) regard women as inferior beings and/or possessions. One wonders again about the prospects for assimilation if a man who has lived in the US for 30 years can retain the beliefs he came with so many years ago, beliefs that run counter to core values of our society.
Feb 18, 2009 - 6:59 am 23. J. PINKERTON SNOOPINGTON:vivo
Feb 18, 2009 - 7:20 am 24. Barry 0351:#20
Sadly, this article provides you with yet another excuse for you to display your abject,
all-encompassing stupidity. !!!
It’s their religion, their faith and our future.
Feb 18, 2009 - 7:32 am 25. Jaladhi:Get used to it cause islam ain’t going away.
Ms Chesler, why on earth are you a “pro Muslim” advocate inspite of knowing their history for last 1400 years which is continuing even today throughout this world with no end in sight???? Looks to me you are in denial of Muslim history, behavior, psyche, etc, etc,…
Everybody should be pro-woman and pro-human being advocate. Period!!!
Feb 18, 2009 - 7:37 am 26. Is it the religion, or the culture? The answer is “not or, but AND” | BitsBlog:[...] Chesler, who has been tracking this story more closely than I, at Pajamas Media says in an entry dated the 17th: Yesterday, I published my study: “Are Honor Killings Simply Domestic Violence?” in Middle East [...]
Feb 18, 2009 - 7:39 am 27. Lynn:I am so totally disgusted. thanks Ms. Chesler for saying what needs to be said. Oh, and you really don’t have to apologize for saying anything about Muslim men. I’ve seen them in action and what kind of abuse they hand out to their wives and daughters.
Feb 18, 2009 - 7:51 am 28. Nancy Gough Riley:Mr. Cook, In no way was I attempting to suggest that Christian theology, at least most of it, promotes the killing of women by their husbands, ex-husbands, boyfriends or ex-boyfriends. I don’t know the statistics as to how many women were killed that same day in the US, all of them in my estimation to be barbaric and savage, but I would single out the fanatics, and not hint that all Christian men fall into that category, or all other men for that matter.
Feb 18, 2009 - 8:00 am 29. TalkinKamel:Yes, Vivo, because we see all those Buddhist, Amish, Baptist and Catholic men beheading their wives all the time!
Feb 18, 2009 - 8:05 am 30. AThinkingPerson:Vivo….For once we agree. The depths humanity will sink to are truly sickening.
Feb 18, 2009 - 8:13 am 31. AThinkingPerson:24 Barry….This is where the term “patriot” can be defined. Do we allow Islam and all of the insanity it entails take over or do we stand on firm on what we believe?
Feb 18, 2009 - 8:16 am 32. Lynn:I think that it is fair to examine the teachings of the founder of Islam, Mohammad. He teaches that women were the property of the male just as a field or domestic animal. He teaches that a woman’s testimony is worth half the man. He teaches that physical abuse of women is acceptable. He teaches that Hell is filled with mostly women. He teaches that heaven is where women exist for the pleasure of believing men.
If Mohammad speaks for Allah, then it is Allah that teaches these things. Mohammad is the messenger of Allah. To deny these teachings is to deny Allah.
This is the obstacle we face.
Feb 18, 2009 - 8:23 am 33. Laura:How could anyone in the West be ‘pro- Moslem?’ I am not advocating violence against anyone, but really, PRO MOSLEM?? A teenage girl was murdered last year in Toronto by her father. Her crime: not wanted to wear a hijab. The mother and brother were in on it. Why move to the West if you do not want to live by our standards? ADAPT OR LEAVE. Period.
Feb 18, 2009 - 8:25 am 34. Jarhead91:I love this site for it’s low tolerance of hypocrisy.
Feb 18, 2009 - 8:41 am 35. MikeH:Well, here we go again:
buffalo News headline: “Religious speculation upsets imam in case of beheaded woman”
http://www.buffalonews.com/cityregion/story/582625.html
“Beheading has more to do with culture and country of origin [than religion],” Mangera stated. “It has nothing to do with Islam. We abhor domestic violence, and we categorically denounce it in all forms.”
Feb 18, 2009 - 9:22 am 36. fred:Phyllis,
If you characterize yourself as pro-Muslim, as a way of warding off critiques of Islam on this thread, please answer this question. Have you extensively read the Qur’an, Sunnah, and Sira? I ask this because it is impossible to write truthfully about the abuse of women, treating them as chattel, sexual exploitation of them, relegating them to second-class status (under Shari’a Law a woman’s testimony is worth only half of a man’s)without seeing what is in plain sight: the justification for these things in the extensive writings in Islam, including the opinions of clerics and scholars down through the centuries.
I am going to provide a link to an article by Robert Spencer over at Frontpagemag.com today.
http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=813FD3E8-4D63-4F25-AD6D-72048DB41D48
Feb 18, 2009 - 9:39 am 37. Terry Gain:ADAPT OR LEAVE. Period.
–
Good but I prefer unshackle yourself and learn to love life and your fellow man, as well as your conception of God.
Feb 18, 2009 - 9:42 am 38. AnninCA:I simply cannot fathom how this man could revert to such barbarism. I wonder if he’s insane.
Feb 18, 2009 - 9:45 am 39. Ray:As someone living in the ‘Heartland’ of America, and reading these excuses for barbaric behavior by these animals, it is no wonder there is such a disconnect between you, and the rest of America. They worship death more than life, they hate women, and they hate anyone not Muslim. They need to be exterminated from the earth, before they kill us all. You can ‘explain’ and ‘defend’ this behavior all you like, but they will destroy you when given the chance. You cannot be their ‘friend’, you cannot ‘appease’ them…it is a sign of weakness. The ape that just killed the woman in New York, is more human than most Muslims.
Feb 18, 2009 - 11:36 am 40. Dr. Lumplevin:You cultural bigots, with the assumption that your values and society are somehow superior would deprive Muslims of their right to follow their religion?
Hypocrites!
Feb 18, 2009 - 11:59 am 41. Eric Florack:Hmmm. So, you’re saying we should simply allow beheadings, under the banner of freedom of religion?
Feb 18, 2009 - 12:33 pm 42. Eric Florack:So what do we in western culture do? We treat the culture that accepts this behavior as cultural equals. The result is totally and sadly predictable.
I have argued repeatedly and strongly over the years that not all cultures are equally valid in today’s world, and that instead of aiming at equal respect for all cultures, under the high-minded-sounding banner of ‘multiculturalism’ we should be in fact aim at being, in effect, cultural Darwinists. We open ourselves up to the kind of violence we saw in Buffalo the other day, when we treat such a culture as ‘equal’… cultural treatment which the murdering husband, Muzzammil Hassan endlessly promoted on his TV network. Even someone supposedly so committed cannot seperate himself from the source of the objections we in the west raise to that culture, apparently.
If we are honest, at some point, we need to reject the kind of culture that includes honor killing as a valid response to a perieved slight. But in the doing, we also need to consider what is at the roots of that culture, it’s driver… in this case, Islam.. and reject it as we, as being causal. If we are being true to our own culture, and to advancement of the world, for that matter, we can do nothing less.
Feb 18, 2009 - 12:37 pm 43. johngaltlives:The “RELIGION” OF PIECES at it again. The savages of ISLAMIC SUPREMACY(Islam hijacked terrorism, not the other way around)will again hide behind there so-called religion as an excuse for spreading there disgraceful ideology and its poison all over the earth. Can any serious American believer in freedom as the solution to the human condition accept this intolerant hate? I for one cannot.
Feb 18, 2009 - 12:40 pm 44. hawkeye:i dont care if i’m pc or not, but try that kind of “religious” freedom in my little american town, and i’ll drag them into the forest by their beards, and let my 870 remington have a few words with them. i’m willing to pay for my crime. while we’re at it, lets just impeach obama now, to avoid further trouble.
Feb 18, 2009 - 12:55 pm 45. Annie:This is a courageous and brave article. I continue to be perplexed as to why this story isn’t being covered in the MSM. What a horrible tale! I keep thinking, what can we do to help these women? I can only think that in areas with large Muslim population, safe houses need to be established for these women and girls. Abusers should be sent back to their country of origin.
I’m one of the few people I know who has actually read parts
Feb 18, 2009 - 1:04 pm 46. sillyblindharper:of the Koran, and to me it seems like a rip-off of the Old and New Testaments, without even any interesting stories, just dull proverbs. Curiously, it’s the only holy book of a major world religion which is consistently stolen from the library (I work at a public library in a large city). I keep thinking that the fact that it is always being stolen reflects rather poorly on Muslim’s converts.
#36 fred – May I respectfully answer for Ms. Chessler, since she’s not here right now? Yes, she has read and understood. Her personal story is fascinating and I recommend it’s reading to everyone. She knows of what she speaks.
Thank you for the Frontpagemag link, I had missed that one this morning.
Cheers!
…and thanks again, Ms. Chessler
Feb 18, 2009 - 1:40 pm 47. Annie:Another thing that occurred to me after reading this piece–I’m definitely going to warn my daughters about hanging out with Muslim guys-they just sound too dangerous and irrational.
Feb 18, 2009 - 2:05 pm 48. DavidN:I’ve been ranting about this issue to anyone who will listen (not many do, frankly, because my perspective doesn’t fit in with other people’s). This isn’t, to my mind anyway, exactly a religious issue. I know Westerners tend to equate religion with evil, and anything a religious person does is seen as part of, or a result of, his religion. The trick here is that Islam isn’t *just* a religion, in the way Judaism or Christianity are, let along Buddhism or Zoroastrianism. All of these religions feel they should influence civil life and culture, but all of them more or less agree that there are limits to what they should influence, that coercion shouldn’t be involved, and so forth. Islam rejects all of that in favor of demanding that everyone be influenced, whether they want to or not.
This leads to some weird things. The 9/11 hijackers, some of them anyway, acted in a very non-Muslim way. Mohammed Atta was seen in a titty bar in Florida, arguing that he shouldn’t have to pay his bar tab of mixed drinks. But devout Muslims aren’t supposed to drink or look at naked women. How could he do this? The answer is Muslim nationalism. It seems silly, but he wasn’t doing what he did to spread the religion, he did it to spread the *government* of Islam.
This guy in Buffalo, and others like him, came to the U.S. and other Western countries to make money. Once they get here, they arrogantly assume that their culture must travel with them, their laws and practices go wherever they are to protect them. The only Western examples I can think of are Roman citizens in the ancient world, and British citizens a century and a half ago. Both traveled the world assured that the locals wouldn’t try to punish them for anything they did wrong, because if they did the wrath of the empire behind them would fall on the local authorities. I’m sure this bastard in Buffalo knows he’ll be in trouble with the law here, but I’m also sure he imagines that people will argue for his release, because of his religious beliefs, and I imagine he thinks he has a fair chance of winning that argument. Maybe it won’t fly here, but if he were in Holland, and someone threatened to kill people if he wasn’t released? I think that one might go differently.
Anyway, I hope the bastard rots in hell, and whatever his motivation, I would prefer one woman like this in our country, over a thousand of him, regardless of how prominent he was or how much he did for the community. You find yourself saying stupid things like “There ought to be a law!” Of course, there is one. Hopefully it’ll be enforced. Too bad he didn’t do it in Texas or Florida, where he’d be executed for it.
Feb 18, 2009 - 2:25 pm 49. fred:The purpose behind beheading their enemies is to inspire terror. That was true for Muhammad and his early band of followers exiled to Medina (Yathrib)when they started raiding the caravans, and it is true today. The woman was murdered in this manner to send a message to all Muslim women in the West who dare to leave the fold and to embrace infidel ways. It was calculated, cold, cruel, and perhaps effective in its message. Islam uses terror to prevent apostasy and criticism of Islam.
Unlike Ms. Chessler, I am not favorably disposed towards Islam. It is a cult founded by one of history’s most evil, vicious men. Ali Sina gives a very penetrating psychological profile of Muhammad – and how he terrorizes Muslims and infidels down to this day. And in fact perhaps most of his followers to this day are narcissistically cathected by this cycle of disorder and mayhem.
Feb 18, 2009 - 2:26 pm 50. Delia:As someone who was a firsthand witness to just how evil, misogynistic and backwards supposedly ‘educated’, ‘Western aware’ Muslim men are I can tell you that there is no hope in ever, EVER turning these people around to SANITY.
When I was a junior in high school my best friend was dating a much older Muslim male who was taking college courses along with his Muslim buddies. They were all from Iran even though one of the men emphatically insisted he was Persian and not Iranian. Well, my friend often dragged me along to the get together with her Iranian boyfriend and their friends [they all occupied the same apartment complex]. I began to see an unnerving pattern as all of the Muslim males seemed to be serially interested in young, teen-age, blonde haired blue-eyed girls and all of them had shown their clear intent of wanting to marry them and bring them back to their ‘home-land’ [my friend’s boyfriend being one of them who constantly pressured her to come away with him and become his wife].
Well, one evening my friend and I were visiting her boyfriend and some of his chums when a couple of Muslim men came rushing into the living area and said they needed help that evening to get a girl that wanted to leave her parents and marry one of them. So, we all piled into a car and went off to sneak the girl away from her parent’s house in the night [she was to sneak out of her window]. Well, she sat in the back with my friend and I and she seemed absolutely terrified of what she was doing. When we got back to the apartment all of the men were speaking in their language animatedly so I took the chance to take the girl to another room and talk to her. She was angry at her parents for not letting her have enough ‘freedom’…so I described to her just how much ‘freedom’ she’d have if she were whisked off to a country like Iran and that she’d be jumping from the pan into the fire basically. I pretty much scared her straight because an hour later she asked to go back home and when they returned her they had obviously gotten wind of what I’d told her because they immediately and angrily ordered my friend and I off the premises and I was never allowed back again.
-And that happened back THEN!
Islamists want to infiltrate us and subjugate or outright kill us by any means at their disposal.
Feb 18, 2009 - 2:31 pm 51. Marc Malone:The quran treats women as chattel. They are slaves. They can be destroyed at the owner’s pleasure. There is no legal or moral consequence to doing so. This is the reason we cannot understand their actions, nor even reason with them. The quran says that slavery is okay. They cannot believe otherwise. You’re describing red to a blind man.
Feb 18, 2009 - 3:56 pm 52. spencer:So, according to what I’m reading above there are two Gods. Mine who is a loving, caring God and theirs who is a cruel, revengeful God who tells his men to go forth an beat the crap out of their woman and behead them?
Feb 18, 2009 - 4:13 pm 53. Mary Jackson:I wonder if Phyllis Chesler is pro-Muslim in the sense that she cares about Muslims as human beings, particularly Musim women. It is possible to be that way while profoundly disagreeing with Islam.
The best thing that could happen to Muslims is for them to give up Islam. (That would be the best thing for non-Muslims too.)
Feb 18, 2009 - 4:15 pm 54. Delia:53. Here’s your answer and yes, I believe that’s exactly what Mr. Chesler:
“In this instance, the victims who are of concern to me are mainly Muslim girls and women.”
~
47. Annie,
Yes, I’d definitely guard your daughters from Muslim males and educate them about the horrors of Islam. Read #50 I wrote…that kind of thing is NOT an isolated incidence whatsoever.
-And, I should have mentioned in #50 that once my friend could no longer have me accompany her on visits, her boyfriend eventually slapped her hard across the face and [thankfully] she never saw him again after that.
Feb 18, 2009 - 4:35 pm 55. Delia:Ms. Chesler NOT Mr.! ACK!
Feb 18, 2009 - 4:36 pm 56. Bilgeman:#50 Delia:
“When I was a junior in high school my best friend was dating a much older Muslim male who was taking college courses along with his Muslim buddies.”
Good thing your friend wasn’t dating a Hell’s Angel.
I doubt you’d have gotten off as easily from some of their chapters.
Feb 18, 2009 - 6:10 pm 57. john from cinncinatti:Cato:There is simply no place in America for anyone who is not willing to accept our laws and standards.
Feb 18, 2009 - 6:21 pm 58. blogengeezer:Amen Brother well said.
Having worked for many years in offices with young women, I noticed a somewhat purposfully naive attitude among many of them. Even knowing the dangers associated with dating a type of man as this, they went on and excitedly pursued the affair. Many times either the man or they were married. Warnings were totally ignored. The apparent element of ‘danger’ appealed to them in some perverse way. Nothing of this magnitude occured during my many years of observations, but as they say, “Times are changing” and I venture to say this may very well become common in what was once a fairly civilised nation. It will then become so routine as to be totaly accepted, as many other past ‘taboos’, are now viewed as ‘rights’. In other words “The Shock’ will quietly subside”. DaFlikkers
Feb 18, 2009 - 6:38 pm 59. slyfox:Saw that Glenn Beck talked about this today on his show. It’s about time it was at least on cable news, who knows when or if it will hit MSM.
Feb 18, 2009 - 6:51 pm 60. LennyB:I agree with Ray, except, we need to focus your solution on all Muslims that are not good Muslims — most don’t do the bad stuff that their doctrine espouses, just like most Christians (disclaimer: I belong to this group) don’t stone homosexuals as prescribed by Leviticus Chapter 20.
Why is this conduct in any way informed by a discussion of religion? The joke is really on anyone who would seek to deconstruct this conduct by discussing “culture” or “religion”. Be Muslim all you want. Good for you. But, if you cut your wife’s head off, you should be killed. And if the justice system does not do it, any decent relative of this person should. It is a crime against humanity that this person draws breath while this woman does not. Simple enough?
Feb 18, 2009 - 7:05 pm 61. aramkr:Dr lumplevin #40:
Feb 18, 2009 - 7:08 pm 62. Delia:It’s not an assumption. It’s an impirical induction.
56.,
That’s a ludicrous argument. Hell’s Angels don’t use Islam to play wolves in sheep’s clothing, just as gangster hood-rat thugs don’t either etc. and it’s easy enough to tell those aforementioned as ‘bad boy’ types.
Nice try though. ;p
Feb 18, 2009 - 7:25 pm 63. Thomas:The Islamic onslought and their murderous rage is far more widespread in the EU than is in the US. They keep hostage full sections of major cities where they commit gang rape, honor killing, burn down anyhing in their reach and the police is afraid to intervene. That is a good learning experience for us.
All this mayhem is sanctioned, protected and supported by the Marxist Socialist Liberal gov. which is the primary governing body in the EU. The multiculturalist mantra, the insatiable desire to destroy the Western society is the guiding force of the Left.
Take a look at poster #40 Dr. Lumplevin whose hatred towards our civilization and Christianity is so deep seated that he sees his salvation with Islamic Sharia where the blood curdling bestiality is the daily norm: body mutilation, amputation, female genital mutilation, eyeball removal, stoning and the proud holding of severed heads aloft like animal trophy forming his vision about our future.
Since “multiculturalism” is the official policy, “my type of culture” not bound by Pol. Corr.-ness so I am free to say that you ain’t see anything yet of the soup what is being cooked for you in the White House.
Get ready for the glorification of Islam, the gradual succumbing to whatever they arrogate in the name of the Leftist-Islamofascist alliance.
Feb 18, 2009 - 8:40 pm 64. fred:Thomas,
Go to his site and scroll down about halfway, where he gives a description of himself. It’s all about parody and satire. He satirizes the Left! And he’s being sarcastic in #40. He’s poking fun at the collectivists from inside of… Marin County! Right inside the belly of The Beast.
Feb 18, 2009 - 9:25 pm 65. Cold, Premeditated, Ritual Murder. The Honor Killing of Aasiya Z. Hassan. Part Two « True Prophets vs False Prophets:[...] Cold, Premeditated, Ritual Murder. The Honor Killing of Aasiya Z. Hassan. Part Two February 19, 2009 Posted by Maggie in understanding Muslims. trackback Chesler Chronicles » Cold, Premeditated, Ritual Murder. The Honor Killing of Aasiya Z. Hassan. Part… [...]
Feb 19, 2009 - 1:08 am 66. zeb:Does anyone know if the lady pleaded to this moderate Muslim to unclench his fist?
Feb 19, 2009 - 2:30 am 67. Lynn:#60 Lenny B.
Feb 19, 2009 - 5:46 am 68. mariecurie:You have to take your thoughts a step further by knowing that the penalty for leaving Islam is death. Many are trapped and cannot leave this faith. As far as I know there was no penalty for leaving the Jewish Faith if the rules were not to your liking.
Thank you, Dr. Chesler, for your work on this issue.
I realize that “honor killing” is an accurate word to describe this crime, especially with all of its cultural implications. However, I have a real problem with the term. This was homicide of the most brutal, pre-meditated sort (it wasn’t even “domestic violence”–it was cold, calculated murder). The minute we start to shift language around the issue, it is easy to imagine things in shades of gray, instead of black and white. Let’s get the term “honor” out of the issue.
My worry is that when we insist on labelling such things “honor killings,” then the next step is to say, okay we need Sharia Law in the U.S. to appeal to a certain segment of the population that has its own vocabulary and cultural norms. Britain is slowly going down this path, sadly.
I’m not a linguist, but I wonder how much our language and the way we name things gradually influences our perspective of them. Why should we adopt the terminology of a certain sub-segment of a culture that is so at odds with the U.S. Constitution and the ethos of America?
Feb 19, 2009 - 7:06 am 69. Thomas:@ 64. fred
If he satirizes the Left, then I am way off with my judgment.
However a good, clever and entertaining writer usually strew about here and there a revealing word – as abstract or concealed as it may be – which would guide the readers to the correct conclusion.
Forums are very eclectic meeting places, full of clashing opinions therefore unambiguous expressions are rather recommended.
Feb 19, 2009 - 7:22 am 70. Annie:Reading a novel is a different experience though.
In the aftermath of this atrocious murder, it is worrisome to contemplate that the Taliban is making tremendous strides in Pakistan, particularly in the Swat valley. Apparently the Pakistani government has allowed the Taliban to take control of this area, which used to be a popular tourist destination. The Taliban is applying Sharia law in the Swat Valley, which, from all accounts, is sort of like the Pakistani equivalent of the French Riviera. Like a cancer, extreme Islam is spreading.
Feb 19, 2009 - 8:54 am 71. Paul -Indiana:See #10.
Feb 19, 2009 - 9:35 am 72. shocked:===
They were/are idiots without regard to their faith. Islam just gave them the courage to murder a defenceless wife.
I am still trying to understand why no one is covering on the news. Every time
Feb 19, 2009 - 10:53 am 73. Patricia:I tune in, it’s about the chimp or the tot mom.
This was an accomplished young women with children. Some of the chat
says that he was getting funding from the Saudi’s for his station and wanted to
promote Sharia in the US.- Would they not cover because of relations with Saudi Arabia?
Or they just don’t want to offend muslims?
How can they say it’s just domestic violence?
Americans need to wake up and smell the roses. This is the reality of today, when we accept people into this country and allow them to bring their customs and beliefs with them no matter how barbaric. If people want to come to this country to live in peace and freedom, we must make them accept OUR CUSTOMS AND BELIEFS! It is not a matter of being racist. That is what they want to portray to us. They want to use our own freedoms against us and make us seem like a racist country. We are not a racist country, we are a civilized country that believes that everyone is free. We decide for ourselves! If they want to continue their barbaric traditions, such as treating their women as cattle or be married to 10 differnt wives and have 50 children, then they should not be allowed here. They left their countries because they are 3rd world countries, continuing to treat mankind like cattle and the one with the strongest hand and sword rules the land. This is what I mean about being barbaric. They believe in a religion that allows hatred to rule. They treat their children like animals, beating them dailing, raping them at young ages 10, 12 and doing it all in the name of their so called GOD. We must recognize that Islam is not about peace, their are no MODERATE MUSLIMS ANYWHERE!!! Their agenda is to destroy all non believers, especially Americans and Jews! Stop feeling sorry for these people, they are creating monsters as we speak, even in this country. Open your eyes America, Europe already is dead, do you want to be next. Open your eyes and do some research and find out what is going on in the Mosques in your neighborhoods. Find out what the children are learning in these Muslim ONLY schools. The are being taught to hate, hate jews, hate Americans. Stop the building of Mosques that are funded by Saudi Arabia. Stop the funneling of monies to our College Campuses, by these Saudi’s. Open your eyes while their is still time.
Feb 19, 2009 - 11:28 am 74. Bill Perron:Just another Muslim trying to get a head in this world.
Feb 19, 2009 - 11:48 am 75. Marc Malone:#74 Bill Perron – (chuckle)
Feb 19, 2009 - 2:26 pm 76. Chesler Chronicles » Barbaric Murders Are Associated with Islam, Yes, even in Buffalo.:[...] I am not talking about Aasiya Z. Hassan in Buffalo. I am talking about the 1999 St. Clairsville, Ohio case of Dr. Lubaina Bhatti [...]
Feb 19, 2009 - 2:43 pm 77. Citizen70:Blogengeezer and Shocked — you’re both right – the media has been late and lax in reporting this story. And the ladies at my gym were more outraged about the chimp owner treating him like her son than at a woman being beheaded! Women everywhere need to pay attention if they wish to retain their freedom. You will be glad to hear that Bill O’Reilly will be doing a segment on this story tonight.
Women – forget your politics and mobilize together against this cultural threat to our liberties! Thank you Dr. Chesler for keeping this important issue in the public eye.
Feb 19, 2009 - 6:08 pm 78. LennyB:Interesting comment, Lynn #66. When I said “all Muslims who are not good Muslims”, I meant that “good” Muslims are the ones who do these awful things based on a very strict reading of their doctrine (i.e. “good Muslims”), rather than most Muslims who I believe are the trapped folks to which you refer.
I do believe that one cannot hold non-bad-acting Muslims responsible for the evils of what bad-acting-Muslims do regardless of their ‘religious’ motivation — indeed I do not think Islam has much to offer at all in this discussion, what with the head-cutting-off and such.
But, while I know human beings are highly susceptible to collectivist pressures, authoritarian doctrine, and frankly, brainwashing, my default position on those who are trapped must regretfully be: you were given free will. Use it or suffer the consequences. As an example, I often wonder if, had I lived in the Antebellum South, I would have rightly recognized the moral failings (disclaimer: my own moral compass) of enslaving one’s fellow man and perhaps even done something about it. And I honestly do not know the answer, because while 21st Century Lenny B would surely act properly, 19th Century Southern Lenny B might not have, had he no similar moral compass. And without knowing quite where a moral compass comes from, nature or nurture, it’s impossible to answer. And so my default position would be that 19th Century Southern Lenny B should have exercised his free will, or should justifiably have perished fighting for a culture that perpetrates evil towards its fellow man.
Now, if I’m willing to sentence my own self to suffer the consequences of actions, I would certainly prescribe harsh sentences on others. And to those who are trapped I regretfully say: use your free will, or submit and be dominated. And while I personally would look forward to any personal opportunity to visit the wrongs they are done upon their perpetrators, I don’t think whether they are “trapped” is relevant.
Feb 19, 2009 - 7:43 pm 79. alpha dog true story 1999, Aasiya Hassan’s Beheading an “Honor Killing”? « NL80:[...] to Phyllis Chesler in her update, “Cold, Premeditated, Ritual Murder. The Honor Killing of Aasiya Z. Hassan. Part Two,” Aasiya Hassan’s sister has spoken to the fact that Mrs. Hassan had been beaten and [...]
Feb 20, 2009 - 4:52 am 80. vivo:40. Dr. Lumplevin:
“You cultural bigots, with the assumption that your values and society are somehow superior would deprive Muslims of their right to follow their religion?
Hypocrites!”
ANY religion that allows the killing of human beings is sick, demented, inhuman, hypocrite, not worth even sh*t. Any religion or atheism that respects human life IS superior. Humans are basically animals, but their superiority is expressed in mutual respect of others.
Feb 20, 2009 - 6:39 am 81. LynnS:#78 LennyB.
I also would like to think that when confronted with living in a society where slavery is sanctioned that I would on my own decided it is unjust. I would also like to think I would fight it. Now if faced with certain death or torture, what would I do? Worse, if someone I loved was faced with death or torture because of my actions, what would I do? My point was that when trying to understand what goes on in the Middle East where the religion of Islam dominates, the actions of good hearted people are taken into consideration, and the means to control them is practiced.
I think there are stories of brave men and woman fighting little battles everyday over there and we don’t hear about them because of the state owned media. I also think that fear for yourself and those you love can make people do things that torment their conscience and fill them with regret. I think that evil people take advantage of that and in fact relish it.
I completely disagree that discussing the religion of Islam is irrelevant. The penalty for leaving Islam for many is and has been death. The religion of Islam in many countries is the government. There is no way to avoid discussing it.
Feb 20, 2009 - 12:17 pm 82. LennyB:I understand and respect your point, LynnS. But if I subscribe to your argument, I must then indict all of Islam and advocate its eradication, because that is where any discussion of an authoritarian system competing with freedom and western democracy ends up. And I am not willing to do that precisely because I do not hold the actions of those victimized by Islam — the trapped folks you rightly acknowledge — against those victimized by Islam, regardless of whether they defend their religion. Like a battered wife, many of these people will reflexively make excuses for the worst among them. I do not think that moderate practitioners of Islam act in such a way that Islam must be eradicated.
But if we discuss Islam and its tenants — which while on the surface appear most progressively religiously tolerant for all “people of the book”, jews and gentiles alike, but in practice are shockingly aggressive and primitive edicts handed down by a machiavellian primate — that discussion leads to eradicating a religion based on its most crazy element. And it’s the crazy that I think is the causal ingredient, not the religion. Is all I’m saying.
Feb 20, 2009 - 7:25 pm 83. LynnS:LennyB:
Feb 21, 2009 - 7:33 am 84. DaniaK:I respect you point also and can only speak for myself when saying that it has been essential that I read, discuss, and learn about the founder of Islam, his words, his deeds, and what he teaches are the demands of the Islamic Deity. I guess we will have to agree to disagree.
“Honor Killing” is not a practice of Islam. It is a tribal and traditional practice.
Nowhere in the Koran or the Charia is killing of one’s kin condoned under any circumstances. Even if you consider the “barbaric” practice of stoning adulterers, there are very clear guidelines as to the executions and witnesses need to be produced.
In fact, the taking or life in this manner is murder and murder under Islamic law is punishable by death.
Sadly, Islam has been morphed by ignorance and people who adopt it add their own, brutal flavor, to it. Which explains what extremists regard as “Jihad”.
There is no reason to treat this man any different than any psychopath murder or serial killer and he should be tried as such, but what he did has no association to Islam.
For those who will ask about the prevalence of “honor killings” in Muslim societies, I will say that it is simply a product of despotic weak governments who fail to enforce the law on their male population and who in their turn have a weak understanding of Islamic laws as well as their own constitutions.
Feb 21, 2009 - 4:44 pm 85. Marc Malone:#84 DaniaK – Gotta disagree. The Koran specifically gives a man the right to punish his wife when she trangresses. There is no limit to it. This allows tribal custom to predominate. The Koran also teaches that women are inferior to men and completely subordinate. They are, essentially, slaves. Slaves are property. There is no legal or moral consequence to destroying property.
There are a number of passages (117) that emphasize the brutality of Islam. There is no redeeming this foul faith. It can only be eradicated like the virus that it is.
Feb 22, 2009 - 12:12 am 86. DaniaK:Marc,
You disagree based on your extensive knowledge of the Koran, and of the arabic language it was written in? Of the nuances of language and how it can be interpreted?
You are also going to tell me you are highly experienced in muslim society?
It must have been a different Koran you were reading.
It must also be a very different muslim society you speak of, not the one I grew up in.
I will heart fully agree that women are seen as less than equal in the muslim book, as they are in the Bible. They are definitely NOT considered property, in fact, women in islam have the right of property just like men do.
While women in muslim societies are not free as they are in the west, the types of archaic, violence that you ascribe, while it occurs, is on the fringe, I assure you. It is not part of mainstream accepted social norms. If that was the case, girls and women would not survive.
Societies were muslims live that have a high prevalence of violence are ones where the rule of law was removed, either by war, (as in Iraq, Gaza, and the Pakistani tribal areas), or by despotic governments.
Women had more freedom in Iraq in the 70s than they do today, Egypt is seeing a severe turn towards supression of women’s rights today then they did 30 years ago, yet more women are published today, more participate in politics and speak out than ever before. A little bit paradoxical, possibly.
The reality is there are two different waves forming pulling in opposite directions. The one of fundamentalism which is a harsh, severe interpretation of Islam, and the one formed out of common sense which should be supported, not shunned, and not “eradicated” as you speak.
The talk of eradication is a mirror image of the hate speech that fundamentalists spew out of the pulpit, so I will have to turn the other cheek on that one.
Doing women justice starts by helping them from within with their own voices, not condemning their entire race and ethnic identity as you profess to do.
Feb 22, 2009 - 10:48 am 87. Judy, NYC:…coming soon to your neighborhood. maybe one of these islamics will decide you did something dishonorable. let’s keep it simple. insanity runs in their family.
Feb 22, 2009 - 9:33 pm 88. LynnS:#87 I’m afraid you correct, and knowing that the Deity of Islam through the words of Mohammad lets woman know they are less than men, who are like a field or domestic animal, who’s testimony is worth half one man’s, who should be physically abused for being disobedient, and who sees hell as mostly occupied by woman, there is not much hope for the insanity to cease.
Feb 23, 2009 - 9:12 am 89. The Debate Over Aasiya’s Murder « GOATMILK: An intellectual playground edited by Wajahat Ali:[...] comparisons that highlight the differences between honor-killing and domestic violence. Phyllis posits: “If we refuse to understand what an honor-killing is and how it differs from Western-style [...]
Feb 23, 2009 - 1:18 pm 90. Alfredo:The worst nightmare for the Muslims is the Koran itself, they can’t escape it, and in there the denigration and slavery of women is plainly and clearly stated.
I remember after 9/11, president Bush insisted on repeating the line that “Islam is a peaceful religion”, and so on and so forth, which is not, a peaceful Islam is an oxymoron. This misleading line is emphasized by CAIR here in the US and many Muslims worldwide, but then we witness the beheadings, the stoning of men and women in Saudi Atabia and Iran, the cutting off of hands, the acid thrown on the faces of girls that want to go to school in Taliban country, the incredible intolerance against other religions in many muslim countries.
So, give me break.
Feb 26, 2009 - 5:47 pm 91. Heidi:Excellent article, again, Phyllis.
Feb 27, 2009 - 1:22 pm 92. Chesler Chronicles » A Civilized Dialogue About Islam and Honor Killing. When Feminist Heroes Disagree.:[...] published my study “Are Honor Killings Simply Domestic Violence?” Thereafter, between February 17th and February 27th, I published an additional five articles on the subject. Dorchen is on my mailing [...]
Mar 3, 2009 - 8:38 am 93. Nooreen:I am a Muslim women & in answer to the comments in the above article about Islam, Our beloved prophet Mohammad (May peace be upon him) & our holy book Quran. I want to say that Islam is the religion that bring humanity out from preIslamic barbaric society of killing daughters upon birth by burying them alive. Our Quran & Prophet conveyed/taught people Allah’s message about the honor and pride for a women. It identified the role of women in the society & how she should be cared & treated. Our Prophet conveyed the message of Islam as peace & only peace for the whole society including muslims non muslims, neighbors, and even the prisoners of war. There is no place in Quran in which this kind of act is justified and no such example in the life of Prophet. Please read Quran & Islamic history before making such comments. If you are not sure where to look in Quran about the commandments for women let me know & I will walk you through it but please do not publish something about someone’s religion which do not make any sense just by looking at some individual’s crazy actions.
Mar 13, 2009 - 1:49 pm 94. Nooreen:Here are some quotations from Chapter AL Nisa ( The Women). This gives you some idea on how Quran commands about Women, marital relations & to fight for protecting weak from cruelty.
Surah 4 – Al-Nisa’ THE WOMEN
004.019 O ye who believe! Ye are forbidden to inherit women against their will. Nor should ye treat them with harshness, that ye may take away part of the dower ye have given them,-except where they have been guilty of open lewdness; on the contrary live with them on a footing of kindness and equity. If ye take a dislike to them it may be that ye dislike a thing, and God brings about through it a great deal of good.
004.075 And why should ye not fight in the cause of God and of those who, being weak, are ill-treated (and oppressed)?- Men, women, and children, whose cry is: “Our Lord! Rescue us from this town, whose people are oppressors; and raise for us from thee one who will protect; and raise for us from thee one who will help!”
004.076 Those who believe fight in the cause of God, and those who reject Faith Fight in the cause of Evil: So fight ye against the friends of Satan: feeble in deed is the cunning of Satan.
004.079 Whatever good, (O man!) happens to thee, is from God; but whatever evil happens to thee, is from thy (own) soul. and We have sent thee as a Messenger to (instruct) mankind. And enough is God for a witness.
004.084 Then fight in God’s cause – Thou art held responsible only for thyself – and rouse the believers. It may be that God will restrain the fury of the Unbelievers; for God is the strongest in might and in punishment.
004.085 Whoever recommends and helps a good cause becomes a partner therein: And whoever recommends and helps an evil cause, shares in its burden: And God hath power over all things.
004.086 When a (courteous) greeting is offered you, meet it with a greeting still more courteous, or (at least) of equal courtesy. God takes careful account of all things
004.090 Except those who join a group between whom and you there is a treaty (of peace), or those who approach you with hearts restraining them from fighting you as well as fighting their own people. If God had pleased, He could have given them power over you, and they would have fought you: Therefore if they withdraw from you but fight you not, and (instead) send you (Guarantees of) peace, then God Hath opened no way for you (to war against them).
004.093 If a man kills a believer intentionally, his recompense is Hell, to abide therein (Forever): And the wrath and the curse of God are upon him, and a dreadful penalty is prepared for him.
004.128 If a wife fears cruelty or desertion on her husband’s part, there is no blame on them if they arrange an amicable settlement between themselves; and such settlement is best; even though men’s souls are swayed by greed. But if ye do good and practise self-restraint, God is well-acquainted with all that ye do.
004.130 But if they disagree (and must part), God will provide abundance for all from His all-reaching bounty: for God is He that careth for all and is Wise.
Mar 13, 2009 - 2:58 pm 95. Chesler Chronicles » Gender Apartheid- - Not Our Agenda. Part One:.
[...] authors have both been speaking out about honor killings in the West and have both described the recent Buffalo beheading of Aasiya Z. Hassan by her husband as an Islamist-style honor-related [...]
Mar 22, 2009 - 6:33 am 96. Gender Apartheid- - Not Our Agenda. Part One « ACT Northern Virginia/Richmond/DC Metro Chapter. Dedicated to the Defense of our freedom from Islamic Ideology.:[...] authors have both been speaking out about honor killings in the West and have both described the recent Buffalo beheading of Aasiya Z. Hassan by her husband as an Islamist-style honor-related [...]
Mar 23, 2009 - 9:24 am 97. The Beheading Victim Was Also Muslim :All That Is Necessary…:[...] of her study “Are Honor Killings Simply Domestic Violence?” (she votes No), has called on bloggers and reporters to help advance the [...]
Apr 1, 2009 - 9:43 pm 98. Chesler Chronicles » Brother on Trial for Killing Sister in Ottawa: Guess Where He’s Originally From:[...] United States, in Ottawa, Henrietta, and Buffalo, where, in 2009, long time Pakistani immigrant, Muzammil Hassan, beheaded his wife [...]
May 8, 2009 - 2:30 pm