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May 13th, 2009 10:14 am

The High Cost of Western Idealism: Saving Schoolgirls From Being Poison-Gassed in Afghanistan and Honor-Murdered in Sweden.

Yesterday in Charikar, Afghanistan, for the second time in two weeks, 50 innocent schoolgirls were poison-gassed at school and had to be hospitalized. Many girls lost consciousness and collapsed. Some girls were dizzy, nauseous, and threw up. Amazingly, Noor Jahan, a ninth grader at the Ura Jalili Girls High School said:

“I am pretty sure whoever has done this is against education for girls, but I strongly ask the parents not to be discouraged by such brutal action and send their children to school.”

Such attacks on Afghan girls schools have escalated within the past year. However, this barbaric, Taliban mentality is alive and well among some Afghan immigrants in the West. The Afghan-Canadian brother, Hasibullah Sadiqi, who killed his sister and her fiancé in Ottawa and who is now standing trial, came to Canada when he was five months old. Nevertheless, Hasibullah enacted ancient tribal, (or radically Islamic codes), despite the fact that he had been living in the West for more than twenty one years.

Many male immigrants look as if they’ve assimilated to western ways. They dress in western attire, speak the language of their adopted country, study, socialize with, and work alongside native citizens. They may do all these things even if they wear Muslim, Sikh, or Hindu religious attire.

When it comes to many female immigrants, especially if they are Muslim, things are different. The women are forced into (or “choose”) to wear hijab, niqab, burq’a, or chador. Their movements are closely supervised and monitored. They suffer daily threats: If they do anything that is viewed as “too western,” or do anything against their parents wishes, they will be beaten, cursed, grounded, stalked, spied on, and threatened with death.

While this may sound unbelievable—trust me, it’s true. For example, an attempted honor killing trial has just begun in Gothenberg, Sweden. Such a trial is extremely rare. Both the plaintiffs and the defendants are Kurdish Iraqis. Accused are three women (a mother and two aunts) and three men (a father and two male cousins). Everyone, including the daughter and her chosen fiancé, are religious Muslims.

The crime? “Jian,” (not her real name), dared to choose “Azan,” (not his real name), as her fiancé. They were eventually married by an imam—not in a civil ceremony. But, Jian did not follow her family’s wishes that she marry a cousin whom she did not know. Jian and Azad are both testifying in the trial on video from an undisclosed location.

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42 Comments

1. George Jochnowitz:

The fact that a ninth grader is as brave as Noor Jahan shows that there is hope. Things can change. There was a time when witches were executed in Europe and Salem, Massachusetts. There was a time (lasting into the early 19th century) when homosexuals were hanged in England. Before Pope John XXIII, all Christians were supposed to believe that every Jew alive today was personally responsible for the Crucifixion, because of Matthew 27:25 (”His blood be upon us and on our children”). There was a time when slavery was legal and widely practiced in the United States.

Noor Jahan will win.

May 13, 2009 - 2:22 pm 2. David Thomson:

“Britain has set up a special police division to handle honor-related violence.”

I also have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you. The police in Great Britain are dominated by politically correct whack jobs. It is very doubtful that they will do anything effective to combat Islamic radicalism. The police will probably even make things worse—by providing cover to the Mullahs and other reactionary leaders. My imagination is getting the better of me. I can hear the police now: “Please don’t beat your wife three times a day with a belt. Try limiting yourself to slapping her once every two days. And if you feel compelled to kill this female—can’t you do it outside of the UK? Wait until your family vacations in your place of birth.”

May 13, 2009 - 2:57 pm 3. MiamaMan:

Noor Jahan may not win, the Divine behind her finally will.

1) Make no mistake, humanity is at a crossroad. The current pulling and tugging started with 1st World War. The floodgates opened then, and the “thing” is just starting. Everything is topsy-turvy.

2) Comparisons with the past, although helpful, can’t avail. We are now totally in uncharted territory. All models, East, West, North, South, have utterly failed.

3) Life was immanent in the material, then mind, immanent in life, manifested in the human being. Is that final? For if final, the experiment failed. Eric Hoffer wrote that only becoming more human can humanity save itself. However, there is limit to humanization. We have recently seen the deeds of the titan created by the Nietzsche übermensch.

4) How can we live with such evil? How can we live with this? That’s the question that gutted Primo Levy’s life. Such a wonderful human being. Did he fall or throw himself down?

5) But then there is the hope that man is not final. That immanent in mind, a gnostic being is gestating.

May 13, 2009 - 3:17 pm 4. George Jochnowitz:

MiamaMan,

I raise, but do not answer, the question of how Primo Levi died in my review of a biography of Levi by Ian Thomson:
http://www.jochnowitz.net/Essays/Thomson.html

May 13, 2009 - 5:36 pm 5. Pajamas Media » Saving Schoolgirls from Poison Gas in Afghanistan and Honor Murder in Sweden:

[...] Read the entire piece here. [...]

May 14, 2009 - 12:42 am 6. Morton Doodslag:

“…if we do not find ways to educate and ameliorate the suffering of the wretched of the earth, that we will not only fail our own principles…”

Just look where this has gotten us. After nearly a century of “outreach” to the third world — after trillions of Western dollars, after titanic gifts of free medicine and donated technologies to improve their “productivity” or to “make their lives better” we have simply helped the third world population to explode to the point that we are now confronted with a human tsunami of hatred, excess population, hatred, and contempt for our laws and customs from that sector. Our Western messianism, spurned by the best of intentions, no doubt, is now threatening our existence.

In California where I live, entire schools are now basket cases, they are well beyond overflowing with children of illegal aliens who have stormed our borders, and whose parents don’t contribute to our tax base. Our state is bankrupt — and no wonder — with an estimated 5-6 million illegals straining our services in schools, hospitals, housing, and all other resources, it’s a recipe for disaster.

THIS is what our largesse as a society has gotten us! This is what our generosity and urge to “help” has gotten us. This is what our liberalism has gotten us. We are being buried under an avalanche of invasion, subversion, and contempt for our laws and civilization.

May 14, 2009 - 5:06 am 7. Blackwater:

The West needs to stop acting like an orphanage for the rest of the world. We’ve taken in way too many low skilled problematic foreigners who are dragging down our societies and ruining our communities. There’s so much poverty in the world. Over 3 billion people have never even used a light bulb. What good does it ultimately do in the long run to allow a few million of these people into our countries so they can live off our welfare systems and add basicaly nothing to our societies except scaring and abusing the locals? We’re never going to help the vast majority of people unless we figure out how to help people where they live. And ultimately people naturally don’t like foreigners even if they’re the nicest people in the world. They compete for jobs, homes, college admissions, resources, etc. So why put your citizens through the grief of having their communities essentially invaded by people they can’t stand?

We need to totally overhaul our immigration systems and severely limit the amount of legal immigrants we accept every year. And we should only accept the best and the brightest from foreign countries who we actually have a need for. The Western world isn’t in a developing industrial phase like we were 80 years ago. There’s no more factories that we need lots of manafucturing workers for. Those days are over. So why do we keep accepting these low skilled people? What we need are computer specialists, scientists, engineers, doctors and the like. We don’t need more car assembly line workers. In fact we’re losing our manafucturing jobs left and right to foreign factories every day. The last thing we need is legal or illegal workers to steal those few scarce remaining manufacturing jobs from Americans and Westerners in their own respective countries.

It’s totaly absurd that right now we have several million unemployed Americans yet we have 20+ million illegal aliens working here. Simple logic leads you to the obvious conclusion that if these illegal alien workers weren’t here then we would have much less unemployed Americans. But God forbid we put the needs and livelyhoods of American citizens before those of 3rd world immigrants both legal and illegal. Because that would just be plain rude. Let’s just let our family and friends lose their jobs and homes and be sent to homeless shelters so we can accept 200,000+ more immigrants from Turkey and Pakistan. I mean it’s not like we don’t have enough social problems already with drugs and gang violence. Let’s add honor killings and fundamentalist muslims to the mix. That would be great.

May 14, 2009 - 5:11 am 8. Mary Jackson:

The police will probably even make things worse—by providing cover to the Mullahs and other reactionary leaders. My imagination is getting the better of me.

That’s absolute nonsense. (Naturally you have no evidence to support your “argument”.) The steps taken are very positive – and at least the UK is taking steps. What is the US doing, under its Muslim-friendly president?

Sadly, I think the long-term solution is to cut off all aid to and contact with Muslim countries, until they are forced by penury to abandon Islam. In the short term help battered Muslim women in the West should be helped and encouraged to tell their story, but also encouraged to leave Islam, which sanctions wife beating and honour killing and is the ultimate cause of their fate.

Of course violence against women happens in all cultures, but Islam gives it divine sanction, which puts Muslims at odds with Western society.

May 14, 2009 - 6:08 am 9. Stones Cry Out - If they keep silent… » Things Heard: e67v4:

[...] The bottom billion problem. [...]

May 14, 2009 - 6:13 am 10. LynnS:

If the goal is to bankrupt the West by the so-called method of ‘bleeding the beast’, then there is little hope we can endure the onslaught, especially if we cow-tow to others ‘customs’ at the expense of our own.

The classic signs of abuse couldn’t be more clear in the treatment of women and young girls by isolation and control.

I find it amazing that our ‘elites’ who pretend to be so worldly have been so ignorant of the oppressive Islamic belief system, and are unprepared for the problems it has brought to the west.

It might point to a problem we ourselves have, and that is looking toward the treatment of women and girls as a secondary unimportant issue in the world.

We have been thrown an icy bucket of water, because we are now seeing that tight control of woman and girls has allowed barbarism to remain alive and well in a large part of the world. The most shocking, is the fact that instead of diminishing as logic would dictate, it seems to be spreading.

These articles point to the sad fact that we are living under a thin veneer of civilization with barbarism always waiting to find a vulnerability where it can once again rule us.

May 14, 2009 - 7:06 am 11. Toronto Girl:

My company just hired a religious Pakistani woman. She comes to work completely draped in what looks like a large bedsheet. Only her face is showing. Would someone please tell me why this woman was hired over a Canadian? She makes no attempt whatsoever to assimilate and become Canadian. It is outrageous and insulting to every citizen of this country who needs a job. Of course, I work for a uber-liberal organization that also does not hire white males. As soon as I can find another job, I am out of here!

May 14, 2009 - 7:50 am 12. Cantormania:

George,

You write: “Before Pope John XXIII, all Christians were supposed to believe that every Jew alive today was personally responsible for the Crucifixion, because of Matthew 27:25 (”His blood be upon us and on our children”).”

This just isn’t true. Setting aside that the Pope’s teachings are not binding on all Christendom, I’d just like to point out that most Christians have believed that everyone, not just Jews, are personally responsible for the Crucifixion. Historic, orthodox Christianity as always maintained that all humanity inherits the sin of Adam, and that all of us crucify Jesus each day with our sin.

We thank God, though, that His blood is indeed upon us. For it is the blood of Jesus that cleanses us from our sin! Sure, the crowd who spoke that oath (Matt. 27:25) didn’t know the beautiful irony of what they were saying, but just as the sin of the first Adam brought condemnation on us all, so the blood of the second Adam (Jesus) atones for the sin of all. (1 Corinthians 15:22; Romans 5:17)

It is certainly true that some who have claimed the name of Christ over the years have taken Matthew 27:25 out of context and used that to justify anti-Semitism. And much of that thought did exist within the Roman communion. But your summary is inaccurate, and – perhaps unbeknownst to you – promulgates an old anti-Christian canard.

May 14, 2009 - 8:37 am 13. BettyBlue:

I’m afraid I’ve got to agree with Morton. We’ve spent decades trying to help the poor, and underprivileged of the earth, and all we’ve gotten for it is, well—9/11.

Our invasion of Iraq was supposed to liberate the Iraqi people, and create a freer society. Instead, it just seems to have created yet another Islamic, shari’a law state, that oppresses women. And our support for the PLO hasn’t done anything except sustain a sick, dysfunctional society that takes delight in murdering civilians and in spreading war across the Middle-East. The world would have been better off if we’d sent no aid, hadn’t assisted the Palestinians, and abandoned Arafat after Black September.

I agree that the feminist refusal to acknowledge the degree of oppression of women in Islam, and courts going soft on honor-killing cases is bad, but these are issues that need to be taken up with feminists themselves, as well as the progressives who support this sort of thing, in the name of multiculturalism. Many conservatives have been pointing out for years what a dysfunctional, oppressive society Islam produces, and we were always told that we were racist and Islamophobic. Then someone would bring up the Crusades, or the bloodier sections of the Old Testament as some sort of trump card; hey, Jews and Christians have been bad too, which, apparently, is supposed to mean that none of them, anywhere, can ever criticize Islam.

We can’t reform Islam—that’s up to Moslems, not us. We can’t conquer the Islamic world, and kick out its oppressive governments; we don’t have the money and man-power, and we’d be accused of “imperialism!” if we did. Anyway, they’re getting the bomb. That changes a lot.

We’ve tried helping them through foreign aid, sanctions, appeasing them by condemning Israel—that hasn’t worked. We shouldn’t be allowing honor killings, or crimes against women in our own free society, but given the multi-culti tone of modern society, it’s really going to be an uphill battle, and one that will need to be fought with the deeply entrenched Left.

May 14, 2009 - 9:00 am 14. BettyBlue:

So, in answer to Ms. Chesler’s questions—no, I don’t think America is obligated to uplift the third world, and, even if we try, we’ll certainly bankrupt ourselves.

Noor may do a lot of good in the world, is she survives. The young Americans, who might otherwise be killed in a useless war to liberate the Third World might also do a great deal of good,too, and they, at least, will have a sane and prosperous society to back them up, whereas Noor’s going to have to fight every step of the way, even for small victories. Islam is never gonna accept its Noors. Uh-uh, ain’t gonna happen. Study your history. Islam oppressed women from the beginning.

After decades of sneering at the idea of good and evil, and condemning Judaism and Christianity, defectors from the left, like Chesler, and others, want to bring back the language of good and evil, right and wrong. I think some of them underestimate their earlier success in detaching America from such ideas, and, generally, demoralizing our society.

We’ve got an uphill battle on our hands.

May 14, 2009 - 9:07 am 15. BettyBlue:

Among the things we should have done, when we had the chance, was support Israel, the only sane society in the region, and our ally! We should also have supported the Shah of Iran, and the Lebanese Christians.

We should not have supported Arafat, nor should we have sent one thin dime to the PLO.

But—oh, no, no, no, no! Israel was a Zionist opperssor! How could we uplift the Third World, if we supported Zionism? The Shah was an oppressor too—never mind that the Ayatollah killed a lot more Iranians than he ever did, and also waged a bloody war against Iraq, which probably killed more Moslems than the Crusades ever did. As for the Lebanese Christians, they were too European. Really, it was so much better that they lose power; Lebanon’s been a swell place to live, ever since!

And how could we not adore Arafat? He looked so kewl in his sunglasses and keffiyah! He was going to uplift the Third World, and save the Palestinian Peoples from evil Zionism! We sent him enough money to make him one of the richest men in the world according to Forbes Magazine, but golly whackets, somehow it never managed to uplift anybody, or bring peace to the Middle-East, although I hear Arafat’s widow now lives in a posh Parisian hotel.

And now, we’re being asked to save little Noor from the forces of evil—just as we were asked to save the Palestinians, the Iranians supposedly oppressed by the Shah, and all the rest of the victim parade (but not Israel, oh, no, no, no!)

We should have thought about Noor decades ago. And, maybe it’s time we started thinking about ourselves? And maybe those of our allies who don’t constantly require uplifting, but could use a little help?

May 14, 2009 - 9:17 am 16. ERS:

Phyllis, I think about these issues, too. Like you, I don’t pretend to have all the solutions.

But I think, at a minimum, we should not be empowering the authoritarian regimes by flooding them with aid dollars that only strengthen their military and intelligence services and aren’t tied to concrete, measurable (i.e., by objective means by a neutral party) progress. Owning weapons of war, having beefed up security, and constructing highways, state-of-the-art bridges, and posh airports alone don’t advance a society unless the minds of its people, the freedom of its press, the rights of all its citizens, and other “basics” are in place.

Ellen R. Sheeley, Author
“Reclaiming Honor in Jordan”

May 14, 2009 - 11:04 am 17. joe buzz:

Ellen,

unless the minds of its people

are what…”in place”?
Were the Taliban allowing girls an education before our troops were sent there?
How would you suggest we suggest the “basics” to the Taliban?

May 14, 2009 - 12:22 pm 18. WLA:

11: Read last summer of a london hair dresser with an “edgy” hip shop hit with a 9,000 pound verdict for “refusing” to hire a woman who wanted to wear one of those bedsheets in what is supposed to be a chic salon. The owner was a single woman who had no idea how she would pay the award and no idea why she was expected to hire someone who fit in her shop like a nun in a strip club. US employers are having to accomodate people that want to pray five times a day, in businesses where people are lucky to have time to eat lunch. Harvard University instituted women’s only hours at a work out center. Past generations of immigrants in US and UK were expected to melt in, not impose. Now its going the other way.

May 14, 2009 - 12:34 pm 19. BettyBlue:

Of course, there is no way to “suggest” the “basics” to the Taliban, because they aren’t about to listen to anything we say. Said “basics” are in place with the US, because it’s a capitalistic, Judeo-Christian, post Enlightenment society. We have to face the fact that most of the Middle-East is not.

We could, of course, try eliminating the Taliban, or other tyrannical Middle-Eastern regimes, altogether, but that would get us condemned as “imperialists”. And the people we were trying to rescue would probably support the very leaders who were oppressing them, against us, because that is their mind set.

I agree that cutting off foreign aid to dictatorial regimes is a good idea. I also fear we will never bring ourselves to do that.

May 14, 2009 - 12:37 pm 20. The High Cost of Western Idealism: Saving Schoolgirls From Being Poison-Gassed in Afghanistan and Honor-Murdered in Sweden. « ACT Northern Virginia/Richmond/DC Metro Chapter.:

[...] Posted in In the News at 5:00 PM by waltjr Source: Pajamas Media [...]

May 14, 2009 - 2:00 pm 21. ricpic:

The only way the West can save itself is to STOP MUSLIM IMMIGRATION!

All the rest is just talk, futile talk.

May 14, 2009 - 2:08 pm 22. Lynn B.:

Phyllis Chesler, you already know the answer. We have to change it for those girls and women.

May 14, 2009 - 2:10 pm 23. BettyBlue:

Lynn B., how do you suggest we go about changing it? What do you think we should do that hasn’t already been tried? What methods do you think would be effective in changing things, and how much in time, money, diplomacy and, possibly, lives do you think should be sacrificed towards this goal?

May 14, 2009 - 5:19 pm 24. MiamaMan:

Wow, the post is hot. Allow me some comments

1)Morton Doodslag: I agree with you. Charity is a deceptive principle, it is still in the realm of egoism. It has never uplifted the poor. The US is in trouble and free falling. What a pity, and remember that Hitler once said that the US was in the business of taking the best brains from Germany for centuries. That was a while back, now we take the lowest from everywhere. Famous German psychiatrist Ernst Kretschmer warned countries against playing with immigration an mixing cultures without a clear plan because they were playing with fire. Of course our “leaders” know better. Specially Nancy Pelosi, who denounced workplace raids an Un-American. Really, there are leaders whatever, but egoistic people bent on getting rich. As Ross Perot once said: If you want to corrupt a citizen, make him a senator.

Intermezzo A: In reality humanity have changed in essence very little. Tools found from ancient cultures in Tanzaniam carbon-dated 330,000 years ago were evaluated by famous Swiss anthropologist Jean Piget who concluded that those people were as intelligent as modern man. The movement of humanity is not even in spiral fashion, but a circle, actually a widening circle. I am one who believe in evolution, both material and spiritual, but also that the creation of mind was a leap. In other words, mental man one day “showed up”.

2) Lynn B & Betty Blue: The West is in free falling because it does not have a will anymore. We are confused. We think we are advanced, the world has changed, we believe in humanism, but basically the world is the same, and survival of the fittest still applies today. The monster that you allude is right here, under a very thin skin, ready to come out.

Intermezzo B: The war in Iraq will be studied in the future as the turning point of the US towards decay. Even though I sympathize with Republicans and voted for Bush, the mistake was of incredible proportions. First, they have not thanked us, nor they will. Now China and France are getting the juicy oil contracts while we paid a trillion dollars and almost 5,000 lives. Moreover, Saddam Hussein was our best ally, you don’t have to study Machiavelli or Metternich to know that Iraq was the contention point for the real bad dude: Iran, that know controls the region, and, make no mistake, will control Iraq in the future or at least the Shia south where most of the oil is.

Intermezzo C: I once sent an email to President Bush (the youngest, no reply). In it I told him that our greatest enemy was not Iraq, but Mexico. Mexico, undoubtedly, will break the US in pieces, and recover all the border states without firing a shot. It is only a matter of time, and it is happening right now in several borders states as Kalifornia. The best solution, in my opinion, is for North America: Mexico, US, and Canada, to become a federation, but there is a lot of ego involved from every quarter.

Conclusion: Tremendous changes are coming. Nature, which is the manifestation of the Mother who is herself the creative will of the Divine (The womb of the Divine), will impose change on earth whether we want it. If we don’t comply, which is very likely given our huge ignorance, Nature will impose her will in a catastrophic manner. Possibly 3/4 of humanity are passed over, or very well the experiment could fail, it depends. God has all the time in the world, this has happened before and will happen again. Actually, in the Godhead, everything is happening at the same time, and time, as we know it, is quite illusory (Relativity theory) and just a balance sheet.

A theory by Hapgood, the Earth Shifting Crust (mind you, not slow tectonic movements) accepted by Albert Einstein (the only preface I think he wrote for a book). Put a little weight on opposite poles of an orange and throw it at high speed, the crust, that is barely attached to the fruit inside will, under the momentum exerted by the weight on the poles against speed, totally shift. Go to the Piri Reis map from 1503 in Constantinople, it details exactly the contour of Antarctica, but how come, if this continent has been covered with miles of ice for the last 4 thousand years? It took an American-Swedish expedition in the 1950 to, using seismography, map Antarctica and discover the veracity of the Reis map. Could it be that it was then at the level of Argentina and then, all of a sudden, shifted? Was this the famous Atlantis? Why in islands in Siberia we have found animals and plants from the tropics all in a mess that died at the same time not so long ago?

The only chance that humanity has to get out of the mess is now in is TO EVOLVE OUT OF ITSELF AND ONTO DIVINITY. Mind is today as ignorant as it was with the first man. Mind and ego believe they know, that they are sophisticated, important, have gadgets and computers, but they have nothing new. The circle goes round and round and only widens. The taskmaster, Nature, will impose her will.

May 14, 2009 - 6:08 pm 25. MiamaMan:

On an interesting note, Holocaust survivor of the Sobibor revolt, Mr. Thomas Blatt, who was 15 at the time and escaped, and with whom I spoke on the telephone 2 weeks ago, is now in Germany to testify against John (Ivan) Demjanjuk, who was deported from the US 3 days ago, and is accused of being a Sobibor guard.

Mr. Blatt was recently interviewed by Der Spiegel. Check it out.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,624550,00.html

May 14, 2009 - 6:59 pm 26. George Jochnowitz:

Cantormania,

The blood of Jesus forgives all Christians who have faith for their sins. The blood of Jesus condemns all Jews never to be forgiven. Christians have never understood that they should be profoundly grateful to Judas for betraying Jesus to the Romans who crucified him. Had Jesus not been crucified, according to Christian doctrine, you all would have been sent to Hell. Christians honor the Cross, but until recent times, Christianity has persecuted and, frequently, killed Jews for being Jews.

May 14, 2009 - 7:45 pm 27. myth buster:

“The blood of Jesus condemns all Jews never to be forgiven.”- Prima facie absurdum!

Besides the fact that most of the early Christians were Jewish, numerous Jews believe in Jesus as the Messiah today, and one day, they all will.

May 14, 2009 - 8:55 pm 28. Cantormania:

George,

The point was simply that Christians do not believe that it is only the sins of Jews that crucify Jesus, but that our Lord is crucified by the sins of all. (But, yes, we do believe that all who cling to their own works rather than the work of the Messiah stand under the judgment. Only the sacrifice of the sinless one, Jesus, can atone for our sins.)

As far as being sent to hell sans Cross, I think you miss something very important: Under the First Testament, salvation came by looking forward to the Messiah. So the rabbis pointed people forward in time. Now that the Son of Man has come into the world, the New Testament ministers point people backwwards in time to the Cross. So just as sin transcends time (my sins today crucify Jesus, just as David’s did), so does grace (the atonement) also break through time. And this salvation is for all who will receive it, regardless of whether one is Jew or Gentile. Indeed, as Paul teaches, in Christ there is neither Jew nor Greek. We believe we are the new Israel!

But certainly these theological disagreements between Christianity and Judaism should not justify persecution of anyone. God is the one who may condemn, and men who do so themselves sin grievously. Being the obvious scholar you are, I am sure you are quite familiar with the impreccatory passages against Chrisitans in the Talmud and the persecutions Christians suffered at the hand of Jews before Christianity gained political power. History is not pretty, and the sins of Chrsitians or Jews (or of members of any religion) are not a sound basis for evaluating either faith, as we are all creatures of a fallen humanity.

This appears to have taken us far afield from Dr. Chesler’s questions, but actually it brings us back full circle. You have hope that there will be a better future because Muslims will wake up to the inhumanity of unreformed Islam. I suspect your optimistic view of the human condition is connected with your inclination towards a theology of works rather than one of grace. Because I believe humanity to be totally depraved, I do not share your optimism.

True, a spread of Christianity among the peoples of the Muslim world would bring an end to their subjegation of women, their jealous hatred of Israel, and other evils. But a post-Christian Europe is not going to evangelize them, and the US is so politically ‘correct’ that we can’t even protect Christians in Iraq nor do we insist that our ‘allies’ in the Arab world respect human rights (including freedom of religion).

But the Islamists may over-reach again. It’d probably take 3 or 5 9/11s all within a couple of years, but a serious jihad against the West could unite a powerful “anglosphere” alliance that would follow through in a way that Bush couldn’t. Should this happen, things won’t stop with the Green Revolution and Quaddafy forking over his nuke program. If a future conflict results in Tehran and Damascus and a dozen other Muslim cities being occupied and administered in a sort of ‘new colonialism’, then things could really change.

I doubt this will happen, but it could. After all, they have declared war against the West. Who knows? Maybe we’ll show up and win after all!

May 14, 2009 - 9:50 pm 29. njcommuter:

If you want to stop sending money to Arab countries, drill for oil in and around the continental USA. Build refineries and pipelines. And if politicians tell you that something else is more important, kick them out. If their laws put other things first, elect someone who will change those laws and those priorities.

May 14, 2009 - 11:03 pm 30. Marie Claude:

“Now China and France are getting the juicy oil contracts while we paid a trillion dollars and almost 5,000 lives.”

BearingPoint, a Virginia based contractor is being paid $240m for its work in Iraq, winning an initial contract from the US Agency for International Development (USAid) within weeks of the fall of Saddam Hussein in 2003. A BearingPoint employee, based in the US embassy in Baghdad, was hired to advise the Iraqi Ministry of Oil on drawing up a new hydrocarbon law.

BearingPoint employees gave $117,000 to the 2000 and 2004 Bush election campaigns, more than any other Iraq contractor

« Production-Sharing Agreements »,

Shell, ExxonMobil, Chevron, Total et BHP

Le magazine spécialisé MEES avait écrit que les accords concernaient les champs pétrolifères de Kirkouk (Shell), Roumaïla (BP), Al-Zoubair (ExxonMobil), Qurna-Ouest/Phase I (Chevron et Total), de la province de Missane (Shell et BHP Billiton) et ceux de Subba et Luhais (Anadarko, Vitol, et Dome des Emirats arabes unis).

Le groupe français a répondu à l’appel d’offres de Bagdad avec l’américain Chevron sur deux champs.
« Total a une très bonne chance d’avoir un bon contrat en Irak. » Selon le vice-président irakien, Adil Abd al-Mahdi, le groupe français est bien placé pour exploiter plusieurs gisements d’hydrocarbures dans ce pays qui en détient les troisièmes réserves mondiales. C’est du moins ce qu’il a dit cette semaine après avoir rencontré les dirigeants de Total et le président Sarkozy.

Ravagé par la guerre, l’Irak va reprendre la production d’or noir et a pour cela lancé deux appels d’offres. Le premier a conduit à présélectionner 35 compagnies sur six champs pétroliers et deux champs gaziers, le second est en cours sur dix champs pétroliers et un champ gazier. C’est dans le cadre du second que le vice-président irakien a cité Total. Le groupe de Christophe de Margerie y fait candidature commune avec l’américain Chevron pour deux sites. Ces deux sites afficheraient un potentiel de production d’un million de barils par jour pendant quatorze ans.

Le 24 mars, une délégation irakienne était venue à Paris rencontrer le Medef. Bagdad multiplie les contacts avec les investisseurs occidentaux pour reconstruire le pays. La semaine dernière encore, la compagnie britannique Foster Wheeler a remporté un contrat de 128,5 millions de dollars (97 M€) pour concevoir une raffinerie de 300 000 barils par jour à Nassiriyah, à 350 km au sud de Bagdad. A lui seul, le champ de Nahr Bin Oumar convoité par le duo Total-Chevron (et sur lequel Total lorgnait déjà avant la guerre) nécessiterait un investissement d’une quinzaine de milliards de dollars.

uh, Chevron need the experience of Total in oil extraction and exploition

Otherwise your post is quite interesting

May 15, 2009 - 6:43 am 31. BettyBlue:

Um, Okay—supposedly Jews can never be forgiven for Jesus’ blood, but we should all be grateful to them, because they saved us from Hell by betraying Him.

This is the most screwed up theology I’ve ever come across. It blames the Jews (again!) for Jesus’ death—as if the crucifixion was some kind of murder mystery (”It was the Jews, in the library, with Colonel Mustard’s candlestick!”), and Jesus Himself a puppet, unable to do anything on His own; “Hmmmm, the Jews haven’t betrayed me, yet, so I guess everybody’s going to Hell!”

Or, if those mean ol’ Jews hadn’t betrayed Him, would He have had to go jump off a cliff to redeem mankind, or, maybe, ask some Roman Centurian to crucify Him? (The Romans were involved in His death, too—remember them?)

Nothing like a little blood libel, first thing in the morning! And of course, this has nothing whatsoever to do with the actual thread, which was about the cost of liberating Islamic women. When in doubt, blame the Jews! I shall now endeavor to evolve into the goddess—one goddess in particular, the muse of comedy! Cuz this whole thing is getting ridiculous.

May 15, 2009 - 7:01 am 32. ‘Saving Schoolgirls From Being Poison-Gassed in Afghanistan and Honor-Murdered in Sweden’ : The Daily Scroll:

[...] From Being Poison-Gassed in Afghanistan and Honor-Murdered in Sweden’ May 15, 2009 Phyllis Chesler, PajamasTV (HT: [...]

May 15, 2009 - 2:07 pm 33. MiamaMan:

Sava bien ma cherie Marie Claude?
Comment vas-tu, vous têtus Brttaine femme.

Comment est votre chien? Mais s’il vous plaît n’oubliez pas de petit ami yur.

S’il vous plaît fournir votre numéro de téléphone cellulaire, je suis sans emploi et que vous voulez y aller un de vous rencontrer.

Cordialement,

Miami CSI

Please do not write in Langues d’oïl, people here barely “spic Inglish”.

May 15, 2009 - 5:57 pm 34. Marie Claude:

MiamaMan, mir ist es gut, Ich glaube dass du meinen twitter pic gesehen hast :lol: Cependant, j’ai pas besoin de p’tit ami, cuz je ne veux pas m’embêter avec son linge sale et lui faire sa bouffe, cuz il mio marito fait ça très buon pour moi, et que je perdrais au change en changeant de crêmerie !

Cest vrai, t’as perdu ton emploi ? umm t’as pourtant des ressources dans le cerveau, et un pistolet, je pense que tu peux te faire engager comme garde-du-corps très spécial de Michelle

gros bisou

May 15, 2009 - 9:25 pm 35. MiamaMan:

Oui, madame, l’emploi a par la fenêtre. Merci

May 16, 2009 - 7:22 am 36. Amanda:

If Christians believe the first 14 verses of St. John’s gospel ” In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God, ——And the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us—-” It is Jesus Who spoke to Abraham, calling him out from among the pagan and heathen Gentiles to be a special people answering only to Him, and since He identified Himself for all eternity as the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob” and since the Jews have never ceased to believe, even in the face of the worst persecution and the Shoah, and still continue to believe only in the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, why is anyone saying they are “unsaved” and need to believe in order to be saved? Surely they are saved from the beginning as it is they and only they who received the everlasting Promise from the Word of God and believe unconditionally?
It would seem the Christians are barking up the wrong tree and needs to take a good, hard look at themselves before the last vestiges of Christianity are blotted out by the Muslims.

May 16, 2009 - 8:46 am 37. The High Cost of Western Idealism: Saving Schoolgirls From Being Poison-Gassed in Afghanistan and Honor-Murdered in Sweden. :: Responsible for Equality And Liberty (R.E.A.L.):

[...] The High Cost of Western Idealism: Saving Schoolgirls From Being Poison-Gassed in Afghanistan and Ho… – by Phyllis Chesler [...]

May 17, 2009 - 5:33 am 38. Marie Claude:

MiamaMan I am sorry for you, but you have a good potential to manage another position, you can teach anywhere as you are polyglot, in China why not ? it’s said that she doesn’t suffer that much of the crisis, and is likely going to replace the westernies in the third world as “help”, as “civilisationner”, as “explpoitationner”, and, plus, they don’t try to convert anyone to a religion, they use the “Capitalism” style of the Marshall plan to get underdevelopped populations to make businesses with them, I think they are right

May 17, 2009 - 7:23 am 39. Ali Sina:

Chester,
There is an answer to the question you are asking. These honor killings have nothing to do with culture. They have everything to do with Islam. If we attack Islam and wean Muslims, not just the honor killings will end, but most problems affecting the Muslim world will also be solved. http://www.faithfreedom.org is dedicated to help Muslims leave Islam and convert brain dead zombies into humans.

May 17, 2009 - 11:52 am 40. John:

George Jochnowitz,

Comment #1 (yours) seems to betray you forget this little fact called “Reformation”, that a bunch decided to throw-off the developments of Roman Paganism and “go biblical”, including heavily studying Jewish sources; you also don’t seem to take notice that, historically, educated Christians–that is those who handle Scriptures hermeneutically (we’re talking Rashi type vs. Rabbis here–the subtlest underminer of mystical twisting ever), all humans share in a responsibility for what happened to Christ: a universal sacrifice in terms of hypothetical or potential applicability, though (if we’re being really rigorous with exegesis about it) only particularly (to use a Calvinistic term) atoning in effective application.

That mouthful said, stop patronizing people (comment 26); the anthology known as the “New Testament” is a collection of Jewish writings, need I remind you? And any claimant on Messiah-ship would have to have expected to be cut-off: traditional Judaism both recognizes that no two ultimate Messiahs are presented in the texts from which the two-concept teaching is nevertheless derived (Ben David & Ben Joseph), yet a two-messiah teaching was come-up with, asserted, and continues to be asserted, to this day due to the presentation of Him as both suffering and glorious. The gospels themselves are written as contemporary docs even referring to a Jerusalem pre-fall (and it was a rank liberal who dared actually pay attention to those features and give a pre-70 date); it’s also due to such “liberal heretics” (that is, from the party-line of ignoring source documents and speculating) that have led to an understanding of such things as John being an essentially Jewish book–which should be obvious anyways (talks as Jews yet speaks in a “we vs. them Jews” evidencing the ejection from the synagogues of the time), so drop the shallow Catholic=Christian and “Jesus was for gentiles” delusions, as NT-wise Jesus was for both (two folds into one, and came for the Jews first); it was not only Jews who were the first Christians, but it was Jews who first persecuted Christians; it was Rabbinism that seared perhaps the most violent and putrid of forms of bigotry ever known into the historical Jewish, and the world’s, consience–as is found through the literatrue–and it is a fact we’re all still reeling from, superiorisim and zionism-as-truism criticism=evil (vs. legal, legit, etc.; I’m all for the existence, defense, fortification, and protection of Israel) and “greatness just because of our flesh” (read the prophets and disillusion yourself will you), and myriads other detestable fruits that both subtly and openly constitute major points of the Jewish mind of modernity-despite the majority irreligosity and even atheism combined with the very modernism/liberalism currently striking hard at any hope for the security and maintenance of Israel.

I hate (abor, despise, extremely dislike, loathe) the shallowness going around and some of Judaism’s own superstitious self-protectionist myths: and confronting Rabbis about it their reply is “it’s necessary”, how disgusting. Read, [Pagans] persecuted and, frequently, [murdered], [in both ignorant bigotry as well as from valid repugnance and retribution--though invalid course of action]“: read the NT dude, the same guy who writes the Jews for unbelief are a synagogue of Satan (Shaul/Paul) for rejecting their Messiah is the guy who writes (a) he would go to hell in their stead if he could, and (b) they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. How can history still seriously call what was done from the stark opposite, in rejection of the early Christian message, “Christian”: it would be like a Jew who calls himself a Jew but acts the pagan–he has flesh, but no substance to his claim, while the Scriptures applaud converted whores who act the part: the Scriptures themselves thematically, near-dogmatically, teach a Jew is one inwardly and faithfully, not by just mere blood; “the traitor” (Paul, as a friend put it) actually dares confront his own people about this in the NT, and tells it to the early Christians (Jews and gentiles alike), taking it from Scripture not pulling it out of his butt. That’s nearly always the ominous message of the prophets themselves–paraphrasing, “you fat heads, God will pay you visit (bad) for your faithlessness and scourge and drive you in agony across the earth (that’s Moses–though most Jews don’t even believe His authorship anymore, either) but has left himself a remnant” (”fat heads” is literal idiom: they were quite scatological at times). One of my favorite recent (as in a few years) events in Israel was the president alluding to Scripture calling Israel hard-hearted and thick headed.

There’s a reason this people is called “Isra’El”.

May 18, 2009 - 6:21 pm 41. Tennwriter:

It would be useful to read the famed ‘Three Contentions’ by Belmont Club. They force one to become a neocon, not out of love so much as a desire to avoid worst case scenarios.

The answer to Ms. Chessler’s question?

Conservatism, Christ, and the British Empire.

Let us be Imperialists.

May 19, 2009 - 9:56 am 42. deguello:

A girl is nearly murdered for refusing to marry according to her family’s wishes:this is a concrete example of multiculturalism in action.Ain’t diversity grand? The last imbecile in chief:open borders enthusiast,and Vicente Fox lickspittle,called Islam “a religion of peace”!

May 20, 2009 - 10:26 am

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