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	<title>Comments on: Finally! Western Law Remedies Woman’s Inhumanity to Woman Among Muslim Immigrant Communities.</title>
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	<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/phyllischesler/2009/05/27/finally-western-law-remedies-woman%e2%80%99s-inhumanity-to-woman-among-muslim-immigrant-communities/</link>
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		<title>By: Sweden: Finally! Western Law Remedies Woman&#8217;s Inhumanity to Woman Among Muslim Immigrant Communities &#8212; by Phyllis Chesler :: Responsible for Equality And Liberty (R.E.A.L.)</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/phyllischesler/2009/05/27/finally-western-law-remedies-woman%e2%80%99s-inhumanity-to-woman-among-muslim-immigrant-communities/comment-page-1/#comment-13243</link>
		<dc:creator>Sweden: Finally! Western Law Remedies Woman&#8217;s Inhumanity to Woman Among Muslim Immigrant Communities &#8212; by Phyllis Chesler :: Responsible for Equality And Liberty (R.E.A.L.)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Jun 2009 19:25:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/phyllischesler/?p=1227#comment-13243</guid>
		<description>[...] (Sweden) Finally! Western Law Remedies Woman&#8217;s Inhumanity to Woman Among</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] (Sweden) Finally! Western Law Remedies Woman&#8217;s Inhumanity to Woman Among</p>
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		<title>By: Why Has Obama Got It In for Muslim Women? &#171; ACT Northern Virginia/Richmond/DC Metro Chapter.</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/phyllischesler/2009/05/27/finally-western-law-remedies-woman%e2%80%99s-inhumanity-to-woman-among-muslim-immigrant-communities/comment-page-1/#comment-13178</link>
		<dc:creator>Why Has Obama Got It In for Muslim Women? &#171; ACT Northern Virginia/Richmond/DC Metro Chapter.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Jun 2009 17:14:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/phyllischesler/?p=1227#comment-13178</guid>
		<description>[...] Shabnums, countless Aishas in the West, as well as in Muslim countries, as the writings of Phyllis Chesler testify. And every one of them would happily have her father, mother, or brothers “impeded … [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Shabnums, countless Aishas in the West, as well as in Muslim countries, as the writings of Phyllis Chesler testify. And every one of them would happily have her father, mother, or brothers “impeded … [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Smilla</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/phyllischesler/2009/05/27/finally-western-law-remedies-woman%e2%80%99s-inhumanity-to-woman-among-muslim-immigrant-communities/comment-page-1/#comment-13018</link>
		<dc:creator>Smilla</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Jun 2009 08:57:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/phyllischesler/?p=1227#comment-13018</guid>
		<description>Thank you Phyllis. This catalogue of atrocities is something many of us have known for a long time. I still wonder why so many fake feminists refuse to see the truth. I know why, but I still wonder.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you Phyllis. This catalogue of atrocities is something many of us have known for a long time. I still wonder why so many fake feminists refuse to see the truth. I know why, but I still wonder.</p>
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		<title>By: Linda Mae</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/phyllischesler/2009/05/27/finally-western-law-remedies-woman%e2%80%99s-inhumanity-to-woman-among-muslim-immigrant-communities/comment-page-1/#comment-12891</link>
		<dc:creator>Linda Mae</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Jun 2009 04:30:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/phyllischesler/?p=1227#comment-12891</guid>
		<description>But liberals will tell us that there&#039;s no problem - we are just trying to put Moslems down.  

Imagine this article without the word &quot;Moslem&quot; in it.  That is what may happen with the new UN mandate that one cannot portray Moslems in a bad light.  

Fundamentalism can be ugly, however, no matter the religion.  What is done in the Middle East - honor killings - just boggles the mind.  It is considered racist to try to stop it. 

One would think Obama could speak out against this while in Egypt.  He has 2 daughters - would he submit either of them to genital mutilation?  

Whenever I see a woman in her black robes in the middle of the hot summer (although it&#039;s been rather cool - global cooling?) and the husband is wearing a short sleeved shirt then I know what a horrendous place women Moslem women find themselves.  

I really wonder why the ultra liberals who parade in the street for Palestinian &quot;rights&quot; refuse to stand up for the women who have none. It&#039;s called good PR.  

Each reader of this article should send it to at least 10 women they know who have minds open to education and fairness.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But liberals will tell us that there&#8217;s no problem &#8211; we are just trying to put Moslems down.  </p>
<p>Imagine this article without the word &#8220;Moslem&#8221; in it.  That is what may happen with the new UN mandate that one cannot portray Moslems in a bad light.  </p>
<p>Fundamentalism can be ugly, however, no matter the religion.  What is done in the Middle East &#8211; honor killings &#8211; just boggles the mind.  It is considered racist to try to stop it. </p>
<p>One would think Obama could speak out against this while in Egypt.  He has 2 daughters &#8211; would he submit either of them to genital mutilation?  </p>
<p>Whenever I see a woman in her black robes in the middle of the hot summer (although it&#8217;s been rather cool &#8211; global cooling?) and the husband is wearing a short sleeved shirt then I know what a horrendous place women Moslem women find themselves.  </p>
<p>I really wonder why the ultra liberals who parade in the street for Palestinian &#8220;rights&#8221; refuse to stand up for the women who have none. It&#8217;s called good PR.  </p>
<p>Each reader of this article should send it to at least 10 women they know who have minds open to education and fairness.</p>
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		<title>By: harmonicminer &#187; Woman on woman violence in Islam and the third world</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/phyllischesler/2009/05/27/finally-western-law-remedies-woman%e2%80%99s-inhumanity-to-woman-among-muslim-immigrant-communities/comment-page-1/#comment-12870</link>
		<dc:creator>harmonicminer &#187; Woman on woman violence in Islam and the third world</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 May 2009 16:22:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/phyllischesler/?p=1227#comment-12870</guid>
		<description>[...] Western Law Remedies Woman’s Inhumanity to Woman Among Muslim Immigrant Communities. In 2001, the mother of an 11-year-old girl spirited her out of Gothenburg, in Sweden, and back to Somalia where she had her brutally genitally mutilated (and without anesthesia). The mother and two other women held her down while a man made sure that she would never experience sexual pleasure and would instead, experience a great deal of pain for the rest of her life. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Western Law Remedies Woman’s Inhumanity to Woman Among Muslim Immigrant Communities. In 2001, the mother of an 11-year-old girl spirited her out of Gothenburg, in Sweden, and back to Somalia where she had her brutally genitally mutilated (and without anesthesia). The mother and two other women held her down while a man made sure that she would never experience sexual pleasure and would instead, experience a great deal of pain for the rest of her life. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Kat</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/phyllischesler/2009/05/27/finally-western-law-remedies-woman%e2%80%99s-inhumanity-to-woman-among-muslim-immigrant-communities/comment-page-1/#comment-12854</link>
		<dc:creator>Kat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 May 2009 21:42:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/phyllischesler/?p=1227#comment-12854</guid>
		<description>&quot;the black African girls and women of Darfur today, whose brutal and public gang rapes by ethnic Arab Muslims are accompanied by the rapists’ women cheering them on while they, the presumably gentler sex, hurl racist insults at the rape victims.&quot;

Citation?  Just curious.  I wondered about many uncited details here, but this one caught my eye in particular.  Any references would be appreciated.  Thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;the black African girls and women of Darfur today, whose brutal and public gang rapes by ethnic Arab Muslims are accompanied by the rapists’ women cheering them on while they, the presumably gentler sex, hurl racist insults at the rape victims.&#8221;</p>
<p>Citation?  Just curious.  I wondered about many uncited details here, but this one caught my eye in particular.  Any references would be appreciated.  Thanks.</p>
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		<title>By: David Thomson</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/phyllischesler/2009/05/27/finally-western-law-remedies-woman%e2%80%99s-inhumanity-to-woman-among-muslim-immigrant-communities/comment-page-1/#comment-12852</link>
		<dc:creator>David Thomson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 May 2009 17:52:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/phyllischesler/?p=1227#comment-12852</guid>
		<description>Muslim theology is inherently anti-nuclear family.  Ironically, both the ideological feminists and Islamic mullahs despise the conventional concept of one man and one woman raising their children.  The conventional Muslim view of marriage inevitably destroys a viable social order. This is one of the primary reasons why Islamic cultures are normally poverty stricken---are prone toward violence.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Muslim theology is inherently anti-nuclear family.  Ironically, both the ideological feminists and Islamic mullahs despise the conventional concept of one man and one woman raising their children.  The conventional Muslim view of marriage inevitably destroys a viable social order. This is one of the primary reasons why Islamic cultures are normally poverty stricken&#8212;are prone toward violence.</p>
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		<title>By: MiamaMan</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/phyllischesler/2009/05/27/finally-western-law-remedies-woman%e2%80%99s-inhumanity-to-woman-among-muslim-immigrant-communities/comment-page-1/#comment-12837</link>
		<dc:creator>MiamaMan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 May 2009 23:30:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/phyllischesler/?p=1227#comment-12837</guid>
		<description>12. Susan Everett:

&quot;I am wondering, has anyone ever asked a Muslim man if he knows what the pleasure is like when he has sex with a fully functioning woman&quot;

&quot;Don’t Muslim men know what they are missing?&quot;

Sure they do, that&#039;s why the keep a concubine or go to a prostitute. There is always the option of a camel, or more hidden, pedophilia, especially with boys, which is endemic in Islamic countries.  

How better the world would be today if a certain frustrated Mohammed Atta would have been given a good b... j..? As he believed in the story of the virgins waiting in Paradise for him (blow up dolls, as they have no soul).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>12. Susan Everett:</p>
<p>&#8220;I am wondering, has anyone ever asked a Muslim man if he knows what the pleasure is like when he has sex with a fully functioning woman&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;Don’t Muslim men know what they are missing?&#8221;</p>
<p>Sure they do, that&#8217;s why the keep a concubine or go to a prostitute. There is always the option of a camel, or more hidden, pedophilia, especially with boys, which is endemic in Islamic countries.  </p>
<p>How better the world would be today if a certain frustrated Mohammed Atta would have been given a good b&#8230; j..? As he believed in the story of the virgins waiting in Paradise for him (blow up dolls, as they have no soul).</p>
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		<title>By: Post-feminist man</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/phyllischesler/2009/05/27/finally-western-law-remedies-woman%e2%80%99s-inhumanity-to-woman-among-muslim-immigrant-communities/comment-page-1/#comment-12834</link>
		<dc:creator>Post-feminist man</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 May 2009 20:47:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/phyllischesler/?p=1227#comment-12834</guid>
		<description>Susan Everett,

&lt;i&gt;Don’t Muslim men know what they are missing? So why do they insist on this butchery? Or are the older women doing it acting in fury and revenge at their own experiences, and wanting their daughters to suffer as well?&lt;/i&gt;

-I&#039;m no Muslim but maybe the problem is that if your prophet was a man who, or so the sacred stories go, had a healthy sexual appetite that he licensed with multiple marriages, child brides, rape and enslavement of captive women, easy divorce, etc.; and if you in turn model your desires on this man, then maybe it becomes paramount to build social order on control of women, to limit their exposure to the other man&#039;s competitive desires. With polygamy, access to sex begins to appear a zero-sum game limiting social progress as we might imagine it.

In other words, a free-wheeling sexuality would be a deadly two-edged sword in a Muslim social context, especially if female sexuality is included in the freedom. If you are one of these thugs who goes around thinking you have divine approval to rape &quot;uncovered meat&quot;, the last thing you want is for your own women to enjoy sex, should you care about keeping the only kind of family order you know and to maximize your own reproductive chances. 

If you can rape Swedish girls and get away with it, you know there is something wrong with today&#039;s Western culture, and with men and women and governments who no longer think they have a duty or the courage or resolve to admit the problem and protect women from the immigrant/Muslim rapists or from their own political ideologies that embrace the immigrant, however he acts, whatever he believes, as an equal child of the Great Mother multicultural state. Maybe great sex requires great and monogamous marriages, in the long run if not (also) the short, and an insistence on maintaining the cultural superiority of certain forms of marriage and family life, even at the expense, for any Muslim who aspire to great sex, of destroying what &quot;Islam&quot; has traditionally been about, for the most part. 
Unless a Muslim believes his future and his stake in it lie with a Western-style nuclear family and the accompanying value system, he may well be suicidal (and family-destroying) to want what we consider good sex. 

And, by the way, it is time for Western feminists to stop their mindless finger-pointing at &quot;patriarchal&quot; culture. Traditional Western families are patriarchal in the sense that male sexuality and responsibility is disciplined along with the female by idealize a certain kind of father figure. This father figure (rooted in a vision of a loving but demanding God who wars with the easy-ways-out of human sacrifice) is made sacred for both boys and girls in learning about certain human realities.

The need for some such father figure is essential to overcoming the kind of barbarism this article talks about. Matriarchal (mother-sacred) culture is not inconsistent with male violence towards women and male control of politics; and Islam, with its fearful and humiliated mother figures, is more matriarchal and less patriarchal than Judeo-Christian culture, as its accent on holding sacred strict and limiting notions of mother and her sexuality make clear. 

Freedom for both men and women involves growing beyond the warm maternal embrace and its difficult relationship to irresponsible and deadly men, and the attendant political ideologies that seek protection from harm, often through forms of appeasement and moral blackmail, before they seek any serious essaying of hard anthropological and natural realities that is necessary to the revelations that build responsible family men. In Europe the welfare state (which we need in some limited form) has become, among many things, a tool funding and encouraging irresponsible men, including men who engage in rape, and also women who engage in woman-on-woman violence which surely grows with uncertainty about male resonsibility; this as the patriarchal household has declined.

Western patriarchy has of course led to many justified resentments among feminists but the better response for women&#039;s freedom, I&#039;d argue, is to reform it, to realize one&#039;s stake in it, and not to war with it in the name of some impossible Utopia.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Susan Everett,</p>
<p><i>Don’t Muslim men know what they are missing? So why do they insist on this butchery? Or are the older women doing it acting in fury and revenge at their own experiences, and wanting their daughters to suffer as well?</i></p>
<p>-I&#8217;m no Muslim but maybe the problem is that if your prophet was a man who, or so the sacred stories go, had a healthy sexual appetite that he licensed with multiple marriages, child brides, rape and enslavement of captive women, easy divorce, etc.; and if you in turn model your desires on this man, then maybe it becomes paramount to build social order on control of women, to limit their exposure to the other man&#8217;s competitive desires. With polygamy, access to sex begins to appear a zero-sum game limiting social progress as we might imagine it.</p>
<p>In other words, a free-wheeling sexuality would be a deadly two-edged sword in a Muslim social context, especially if female sexuality is included in the freedom. If you are one of these thugs who goes around thinking you have divine approval to rape &#8220;uncovered meat&#8221;, the last thing you want is for your own women to enjoy sex, should you care about keeping the only kind of family order you know and to maximize your own reproductive chances. </p>
<p>If you can rape Swedish girls and get away with it, you know there is something wrong with today&#8217;s Western culture, and with men and women and governments who no longer think they have a duty or the courage or resolve to admit the problem and protect women from the immigrant/Muslim rapists or from their own political ideologies that embrace the immigrant, however he acts, whatever he believes, as an equal child of the Great Mother multicultural state. Maybe great sex requires great and monogamous marriages, in the long run if not (also) the short, and an insistence on maintaining the cultural superiority of certain forms of marriage and family life, even at the expense, for any Muslim who aspire to great sex, of destroying what &#8220;Islam&#8221; has traditionally been about, for the most part.<br />
Unless a Muslim believes his future and his stake in it lie with a Western-style nuclear family and the accompanying value system, he may well be suicidal (and family-destroying) to want what we consider good sex. </p>
<p>And, by the way, it is time for Western feminists to stop their mindless finger-pointing at &#8220;patriarchal&#8221; culture. Traditional Western families are patriarchal in the sense that male sexuality and responsibility is disciplined along with the female by idealize a certain kind of father figure. This father figure (rooted in a vision of a loving but demanding God who wars with the easy-ways-out of human sacrifice) is made sacred for both boys and girls in learning about certain human realities.</p>
<p>The need for some such father figure is essential to overcoming the kind of barbarism this article talks about. Matriarchal (mother-sacred) culture is not inconsistent with male violence towards women and male control of politics; and Islam, with its fearful and humiliated mother figures, is more matriarchal and less patriarchal than Judeo-Christian culture, as its accent on holding sacred strict and limiting notions of mother and her sexuality make clear. </p>
<p>Freedom for both men and women involves growing beyond the warm maternal embrace and its difficult relationship to irresponsible and deadly men, and the attendant political ideologies that seek protection from harm, often through forms of appeasement and moral blackmail, before they seek any serious essaying of hard anthropological and natural realities that is necessary to the revelations that build responsible family men. In Europe the welfare state (which we need in some limited form) has become, among many things, a tool funding and encouraging irresponsible men, including men who engage in rape, and also women who engage in woman-on-woman violence which surely grows with uncertainty about male resonsibility; this as the patriarchal household has declined.</p>
<p>Western patriarchy has of course led to many justified resentments among feminists but the better response for women&#8217;s freedom, I&#8217;d argue, is to reform it, to realize one&#8217;s stake in it, and not to war with it in the name of some impossible Utopia.</p>
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		<title>By: John P.</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/phyllischesler/2009/05/27/finally-western-law-remedies-woman%e2%80%99s-inhumanity-to-woman-among-muslim-immigrant-communities/comment-page-1/#comment-12829</link>
		<dc:creator>John P.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 May 2009 16:19:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/phyllischesler/?p=1227#comment-12829</guid>
		<description>This is a wonderful article covering topics most feminists simply refuse to address.

One rarely sees this degree of honesty on the part of feminists when writing about Third World women and the issues they face.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a wonderful article covering topics most feminists simply refuse to address.</p>
<p>One rarely sees this degree of honesty on the part of feminists when writing about Third World women and the issues they face.</p>
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