67 Comments

1. David Thomson:

“Jews and Israelis do not want to be seen—many do not even want to be, discriminatory or “racist” in terms of Palestinian Arabs.”

Oh gosh, I am compelled to repeat myself like a broken record. The greatest threat to Western Civilization may be white guilt. The fear of being charged with racism inhibits countless people. This madness is also mostly responsible for the election of the shabbily educated race hustler Barack Obama. I well remember Phyllis Chesler’s own son warning her not to behave like a racist towards him during last year’s Democratic Party nomination process. The politically correct John McCain lost the election primarily because he refused to legitimately criticize Obama over his relationship with the vile Rev. Jeremiah Wright.

“…what he views as Israeli Jewish “apartheid?” If so, why?”

Why should anyone be surprised? Barack Obama is something of a follower of non-violent radicals like Saul Alinsky—and Martin Luther King, Jr. This is not a secret.
He even threw his own white grandmother under the bus describing her as a typical white woman. Obama is a self hating American who has a lot of “issues” with white people. At a gut level, he wants to stick it to them good and hard. Obama perceives the Israelis as substantially a bunch of white Europeans crapping on the darker skinned Palestinian victims. I am so frustrated. Everything I say is well documented. I do not possess secret information. The only real difference is that I’m not easily guilt tripped over matters dealing with race.

Jun 17, 2009 - 3:55 am 2. MiamaMan:

Thanks for the courageous article, and for your rigorous self-assessment, for example:

1) “And yet, it turns out that I was both a dreamer and a fool, tricked by master propagandists and by my own desire to do good, alleviate human suffering.”

Most of the times this selfish desire you describe well, worsens human suffering. So, finally, not only Avigdor Lieberman is right, he is probably a light weight (Long live Meier Kahane).

2) As long as the Israelis, as Zionists, nourish themselves from their martial history, the Haganah, Menachen Begin, Moshe Dayan, etc, they have a chance. As they deviate from it, and toy the effeminate line of Arab appeasement, now augmented by a self-righteous, subconsciously-Muslim appeaser, anti-West, President Obama, they are doomed.

3) As the 3rd Law of Newton states:
“For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction”, and as I have been saying all along, there is almost no room left for Israel to wiggle now, so Israel must attack Iran’s nuclear facilities, and be ready to NUKE them right away. This will usher a period of “Pax Atomica”. This period is needed to recover, to reassess (news today of Islamists ascendancy in BOLIVIA is really alarming). This type of blast is the only language the Ayatollahs understand.

4) Consider that the nuclear bomb is clearly what Hitler and the Nazis deridingly called “Jewish physics”. Besides Fermi (whose wife was Jewish), you had Einstein, Bohr, Oppenheimer, and the brain behind the bomb: Leo Szilard. Why so? Why not use for your salvation what you contributed so much to invent?

As Jews like you before, mistakenly dreamed and got tricked, now the line is not to cross certain line, that may lead to the nuclear line. Finally, if they are going to vituperate Israel for all they do or don’t, let them do it for a reason. You will finally see Fellow Travelers flock to the Jewish state. Obama will weaken as a result, that’s why he right away sent Panetta (Panetella CIA) to Israel to restrain them.

Jun 17, 2009 - 5:43 am 3. George Jochnowitz:

When Netanyahu said he would accept a demilitarized Palestinian state if it recdognized Israel as a Jewish state, Egypt’s Mubarak said that Natanyahu was aborting the peace process by calling for the Palestinians to accept Israel as Jewish. Mubarak was apparently unaware that he was violating the Camp David Agreement signed by Israel and Egypt and negotiated by Jimmy Carter. Egypt agreed to recognize Israel. Doing so, of course, was recognizing Israel as a Jewish state. The UN decision of 1947 to divide the British Mandate of Palestine into a Jewish and an Arab state recognized that Israel is a Jewish state. Nobody seems to remember the Camp David Agreement. After all, Israel is the most hated country on earth. The person who should be attacking Mubarak’s statement today is Jimmy Carter. However, I’m not holding my breath.

Jun 17, 2009 - 6:46 am 4. buddy winston:

I’ve been saying for years, the only way for western civilization to survive is to:
1) nuke much of the Arab muslim world
2) destroy Al arabiya, Al manar, and Al jazeera
3) bomb as many madrasses as possible
4) deport as many muzzies from the USA and Europe

And then maybe the civilized world will survive

Jun 17, 2009 - 8:23 am 5. Pajamas Media » End the Illegal Occupation of Jerusalem:

[...] Read the entire piece here. [...]

Jun 17, 2009 - 8:43 am 6. Shiloh:

“Well, many good Jews believe in the importance of treating the stranger in our gate with kindness, fairness.”

Yes we should all do the same to those who are within our gates legally and those who abide by our laws and those who pose no danger to our citizens. Even in ancient Israel, the strangers who wanted to stay within Jewish land had to covert to the Jewish faith and follow all Jewish laws, did they not?

While we here in America have clearly lost our collective minds and enjoy little in the way of wisdom and common sense, I would hope in Israel there are still those who possess the qualities we can no longer claim. Thankfully, Israel did not vote in a “Muslim Obama” so maybe there’s still hope.

Jun 17, 2009 - 9:00 am 7. David P:

Reality on the ground is that nobody’s going anywhere, neither Arab nor Jew will abandon their home less they be physically displaced by force. IDF are more likely to drag Jews away from their own residence before they do anything more then calculated surgical extractions from Arab sectors.

The “status quo” may appear to be “unacceptable” by American standards, but drop your average armchair politician bloated on a steady stream of liberal spin in Israel for one years time and they’ll swiftly become advocates for even stricter security measures.

Jun 17, 2009 - 9:34 am 8. David W. Lincoln:

As long as those who follow in the footsteps of the original Sons of Allah continue to ignore the distinctions
between equality and uniformity, and as long as they continue to be the most important segment in Arab Society;
they will continue to get away with all they have gotten away with.

It is time for those that George Jonas referred to in, “Hitler’s dream come true” as the latter day nephews, and
nieces, of Heracles, to assume leadership of Arab society. As well as other societies where they are presently
viewed as dissidents.

Jun 17, 2009 - 9:41 am 9. Meryl:

Thank you for documenting some politically incorrect facts.

The gap between reality and commonly accepted myths is utilized to establish “foundational truth” which becomes blatantly false premises to get things done which could never be done in the light of day.

Only documentation (and endless repetition) of the truth about historically accepted myths can begin to create the desperately needed cracks in the concrete lies.

So thank you.

Jun 17, 2009 - 10:05 am 10. The Shadow:

Wow I bet this will play well in the Islamic world – What a complete idiot

Jun 17, 2009 - 10:12 am 11. MiamaMan:

The current problems in the world are just a continuation of what we witnessed in World War II. The forces of Darkness have just changed hosts.

Whereas the outside shows a somehow visible and discernible movement and struggle, even to the naked eye, there is an occult struggle always fermenting under the surface.

In Europe things started to bubble after the battle of Sedan when there was a clear change of host from France to Prussia. World War I was like an initiation, a groping into darkness, the anteroom of World War II. For bad that Stalin was, the greatest menace in the 20th century was clearly Herr Hitler. He was within a hairs’ breath of turning back spiritual and cultural evolution centuries. He was thwarted, the greatest individual instrument used by the Light was Winston Churchill; the greatest country used by the Light was the United States. Thus Churchill understood his call, and said: “If we stand up to Hitler, all Europe may be free and the life of the world may move forward into broad, sunlit uplands. But if we fail, then the whole world will sink into the abyss of a new Dark Age.” The pivot of World War II, the turning point, Hitler never understood, was the evacuation at Dunkirk. Generals Halder and Guderian were baffled by Hitler’s order to stop, when Goering’s Luftwaffe tried to proceed, a mysterious, and out-of-season, cloudy bad weather impeded it.

Once and again, positive forces spearheaded by the United States have thwarted the Dark One. It happened to the Soviets, the Evil Empire. However, in the maneuvering of taking care of Hitler, an ominous event, one to have a future negative impact for the whole world took place: The partition of India.

Another change of host took place. Today, that dark force, the enemy of mankind, originally known as The Lord of Falsehood (who likes to call himself The Lord of the Nations), wears a turban and cries: Allah hu Akbar!

Jun 17, 2009 - 10:16 am 12. Professor Guvinoff:

Global abandonment of the search for the truth is the burning hysteria of our time, and its prophet is the POTUS himself, amplifying UN-speak at the bully pulpit! Global warming is another diversionary fiction, led by Al Gore, a comparatively minor prophet, sanctionned by a mere Nobel prize. These senseless attempts to escape reality are gathering momentum.

Strangely, the pot of gold at the end of this rainbow is just another utopia, one in which there is no room for the Jews! Reminds you of something?

Jun 17, 2009 - 10:35 am 13. Helen Freedman:

The unbridled illegal Arab building occurs not only in Jerusalem, but throughout Israel. The JNF land upon which Arabs squat, or which was given to them, is everywhere throughout the country, and the violations abound. I don’t believe it is primarily fear of being “racist” that prevents the Israeli government from stopping the Arab growth. It is also fear of Arab demonstrations and public outcry that accompanies any demolition or planned demolition of illegal Arab homes. Only the Jewish settlers are visited by Israeli border police at 3 AM and see their shacks and tents and makeshift synagogues destroyed. The Israelis know there will be no outcry about what happens to the Jews.

Jun 17, 2009 - 11:07 am 14. Toronto Girl:

I had to literally run from harrassing Arabs (and Armenians) many times in Jerusalem. Thank goodness that an IDF soldier is almost on every street corner. It is impossible for a single female to walk in densely Arab areas in Israel.Arabs walk freely across the Western wall compound but Jews cannot go up to the Al-Aqsa Mosque. Something has to change.

Jun 17, 2009 - 11:07 am 15. Mike:

For now they are all over Israel. I believe that will change signifiantly within the next five years as the National Camp moves into power in Israel.

Jun 17, 2009 - 11:08 am 16. Dave Surls:

Arabic speaking Muslims have as much right to be in Israel (and the surrounding lands) as the British had to be in India, which is none whatsoever.

If they won’t behave themselves (which the so-called Palestinians won’t) and they keep asserting a claim to land which isn’t theirs and never was, then the only answer is to drive them out.

Israel, and the surrounding lands belongs to Jews and Christians…not to imperialist/colonialist Arab Muslims.

Jun 17, 2009 - 11:13 am 17. Jennifer in Jerusalem:

Klein’s description of the situation and the collusion of the cover-up too horrible for words. Unfortunately, being unbelievable doesn’t mean there is no truth in what he’s saying. With so much damage done, the question is, what do we do from here….?

Jun 17, 2009 - 12:02 pm 18. Fern Sidman:

Sorry for the following plug, but I just couldn’t resist. Firstly, Dr. Chesler’s description of The U Cafe is right on the mark. Not only would I recommend this mouth watering eatery to writers and other creative types, but to just about anyone who enjoys personally prepared meals, an extensive menu, great service and a warm ambiance. And the guy who owns and operates this place, (Pinny) is a wonderful chap who greets everyone with a big smile.

Yes, in addition to restaurant reviews I have also published book reviews and the most recent one is on Aaron Klein’s book, “The Late Great State of Israel”. For those wishing to take a look, you can click on this link which is the PDF version of a newspaper called The Jewish Voice:

http://www.jewishvoiceny.com/archives/20090605-JewishVoice.pdf

After clicking on this link, just scroll down to page 25.

Dr. Chesler raises important points on the illegal seizure of Jewish owned land by Arab squatters. The unscrupulous policies of the Jewish National Fund demand a thorough investigation. As Klein says in his book, the JNF gives its tacit imprimatur to Arabs who wish to build homes on land purchased by Jews and for Jews without batting an eyelash. Conversely, when Jews wish to build homes or settlements they must deal with the nightmarish Israeli bureauocracy and the seemingly endless process of obtaining a building permit.

In short, Arabs have been given the green light to build just about anywhere in Israel that they wish, irrespective of who holds the title and deed to the land they wish to build on. They also have been a full exemption on the convoluted permit issue.

Helen Freedman’s observation of the rampant expansion of illegal Arab settlements throughout Jerusalem is an important and most timely one.

As President Obama condemns the building of “illegal” Israeli settlements and holds Israel accountable for expanding existing settlements in the interest of natural growth, meaning that children born and raised on these settlements (who are now grown and married and have children of their own) can now live in close proximity to their parents and siblings, we find a clear double standard in his rhetoric.

Never mentioning a word about Arab squatters on Jewish land, the President is either unaware of this fact, because he has not read or has been advised of the findings in Aaron Klein’s monumental book, or else he figures that if it’s okay with the JNF to allow Jews to purchase land in Israel to be used for Arab dwellings, then why should he criticize their overt thievery.

And to those who believe that anything significant will change in Israeli policy regarding the building of Arab homes on Jewish land, with the advent of the new Netanyahu administration, then just check out his track record when he previously held the post of prime minister.

Jun 17, 2009 - 1:04 pm 19. Shoshana Rubin:

Phyllis, so happy you changed your mind about wanting a PA Muslim state as you had written in “The New Anti-Semitism” that I’m reading now.

When all is said about this issue and I was in Israel in the late 1970’s and witnessed the absolute hate and rage of PA Muslims toward Jews in Acre, the Little Triangle and outside Haifa, where at a PA cafe, they would sell me a snack but wouldn’t allow me to take a seat because they scowled and spit, “You’re Jewish.” Hearing that, I dumped my snack and drink in the trash, not wanting to take the chance of being poisoned.

I was shocked that Israelis didn’t have the slightest clue how much they were absolutely hated no matter what their politics were. So again, I’m reminded of Rabbi Kahane, who was extremely sensitive to the raging hatred of the PA Muslims and warned us over and over that sooner or later, we will have to agree either with Kahane’s vision for Israel or Arafat’s vision for Israel. That day is here.

Jun 17, 2009 - 2:05 pm 20. idov:

As the saying goes, the wheels of justice grind slow, but they grind exceedingly fine. Israel is a democracy and every property case goes before the courts which take forever to render a judgment. Things are not out of control in Jerusalem. Go back a few years when Labor was in power under Barak and bombs were being lobbed into Gilo, a section of Jerusalem, and they would do nothing so not to adversely affect the “peace process.” The PLO was permitted to operate semi-official instititutions in Jerusalem and it was acting like a government there. Labor is now down to the size of a rump party and there is little support for their kind of Oslo accords appeasement today because it was proven to be an illusion. Gaza and Lebanon were made to pay a heavy price for their aggressions and they’ve lost their appetite for killing Jews, at least for a time. Arafat had been give autonomy over last sections of Judea and Samaria and used that freedom to launch one of most vicious terrorist waves in history. Now there is a wall impeding the movement of terrorists into Israel and checkpost throughout the territories making unsupervised movement difficult for them. In other words we deal with security problems although it takes time and any illegal activities in Jerusalem and elsewhere will be dealt with in due course as well.

Jun 17, 2009 - 2:37 pm 21. aramkr:

Toronto Girl:
As an American of Armenian ancestry, I am sicked by the mentality of many Armenians in the mid-East. I don’t know whether it is an inbred anti-Semitism or a desire to be eaten last by the Muslims but it is deeply shameful and, ultimately, will be costly.

Jun 17, 2009 - 4:51 pm 22. MiamaMan:

57. kactuz:
[Actually Muslims bow to a black rock. They say they are bowing to Allah but he is nowhere to be seen. The black stone, however, is visible and that is what they bow to, just like before Islam. Nothing has changed. Note that the people that controlled the Meccan idol worship in pre-Islamic times are the same that took over Islam after the second Caliph (Omar).]
kactuz, although we are almost on the same page, please allow me to say something about your statement above. I am a Hindu by faith. Some of us Hindus also bow to a rock worshiping God, this special rock is called a Lingam (mostly known as a Shiva Lingam). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lingam
This is an ancient tradition going back thousands of years (Indus Valley Civilization), before Christ and of course Mohammend.
This, in no way, means idol worship. God is One without a second (Brahma Ekam Eva Advitiyam), but can be worshiped in many ways. Actually, this claim of idol-worship and polytheism, was the main claim used by the Islamic invaders in India to destroy temples, murder, maim, and terrorize. Verily, Islam considers Jews and Christians still as “people of the book”, but saves its greatest contempt for Hindus, and WRONGLY.
Moreover, something has changed. The earlier Arabs before Islam had a vibrant religion with many similarities to Sanatana Dharma (Hinduism). Like the Muslim conquerors did in Iran, Mohammend totally destroyed, or converted by force, these Arab tribes.
It is important, especially nowadays, to understand and study this Arab, pre-Islamic, culture and religion. The stone you mentioned is a remnant of a Lingam.

Jun 17, 2009 - 6:09 pm 23. dmgold, Israel:

The real enemy for Israel is the relationship with the United States. Israel is in effect being forced to trade its claims, heritage and security to satisfy the relationship between the Arabs and the US.This is always done under threat of holding back on Israels security.
Many Israelis (common folk) have been saying for a long time now that Israel must find new freinds in the world, as shown by this latest rift,the majority of US Jews in powerful positions will not stand with Israel and Obama outside of the election season has no interest in the Jewish State. Hope and Change to new partners.

Jun 17, 2009 - 9:23 pm 24. Marc Malone:

Truth is the best disinfectant for the disease of Islam. Sadly, however, truth has few vectors.

Jun 17, 2009 - 11:48 pm 25. MiamaMan:

I sustain that India is a natural friend of Israel.
http://www.hinduismtoday.com/modules/xpress/hindu-press-international/2009/06/17/hindus-and-jews-unite-on-capitol-hill-in-rare-meeting-of-spiritual-leaders/

Jun 18, 2009 - 1:57 am 26. Jew for peace and human rights:

You Ms. Chesler, and the majority of those who have commented on this abhorrent article, should all be ashamed of yourseleves! How can you even dare to say this: “many good Jews believe in the importance of treating the stranger in our gate with kindness, fairness” while at the same time continuing on your racist/slanderous tirade. It is people like you who give us all a bad name. All you preach is hate and intolerance, ideas that are diametrically opposed to the true tenets of Judaism.

Jun 18, 2009 - 3:47 am 27. RandyChandler:

I had almost come to believe that for Israel to win Obama’s favor it would have to turn nasty and do things like call America the Evil Empire of Lucifer and commit acts of terror, and that then Obama would start kissing Israel’s backside like he does other international thugs and terrorists.

But then I realized that Obama truly does want Israel eliminated. As long as Israel exits, there can be no peace in the Middle East because Israel’s enemies are under orders from Allah to erase the Jewish State.

Obama is so seriously deluded that he believes Israel is standing in his way of becoming Overlord of the World. He doesn’t realize that the enemies of Israel view him as a weak sister and would force him to cover himself like an obedient Muslim woman in a burqa if they could.

Jun 18, 2009 - 5:19 am 28. David W. Lincoln:

As long as oppressors view themselves as hard done by only by the tricksters of the world, they will continue to exhibit cultural stuntedness.

One thing that is needed is education, so that
Armenians and other Christians see what they have in common with Jews.

The other is a willingness to pay attention, instead of having the new data go in one ear and out the other, whilst leaving no impact.

Jun 18, 2009 - 5:37 am 29. scooby:

Come on sent all this to CNN and BHO aND THEY WILL GET IT SORTED

Jun 18, 2009 - 7:30 am 30. David W. Lincoln:

aramkr, have you taken a look at “The Blood of Lambs” by Kamal Saleem?

In it we see Armenians in a most unsympathetic light. Care to explain why?

Jun 18, 2009 - 8:16 am 31. Adina Kutnicki,Israel:

One needn’t be right wing, nor a zionist, or even Jewish to understand what animates those who fulminate over Jewish ’settlements’. One only has to ask the right (no pun intended) questions to understand what their agenda really is.

For instance – since there are many, many more illegal Arab buildings/settlements in E Jerusalem and ALL over Israel, are the people who are clamoring for Jewish ’settlement’ to cease, also calling for Arab demolitions? Further, while 20% of Israel’s population are Arabs with full citizenship, why is the PA allowed to demand that Judea & Samaria become Judenrein, all in the name of ‘peace’?

These type of questions to a fair minded person would be answered in a fair minded manner. However, when the agenda is fueled by anti-zionist/anti-semitic nuances, these same (righteous) questions become nothing more than a hindrance to ‘peace’ efforts.

There is nothing more important within this framework than to expose the hidden prejudices of the (in)human rights brigade.

Jun 18, 2009 - 9:07 am 32. savage24:

If Israel doesn’t get off this liberal kick they are on, the Palestinians with Obamas help are going to march them into the ovens again.

Jun 18, 2009 - 9:29 am 33. Joe Bison:

Don’t expect anything from Obama. He is
only as pro-Israel as he is politically
forced to be. His views are defined
by the church he attended and that is
also the predominant view of Blacks in
the US.

Jews in the US are like Catholics although
even more so. They are members of a loose
family that meets for a reunion now and
then rather than participants of a
particular religion. They are defined
more by political slant and prejudices.

That is why conservatives who are the
most pro-Israel are ridiculed, vilified
and disliked by the majority of US Jews.
This allies Jews to Americans who blame
them for everything from high gas prices,
death of soldiers, high military costs,
promoting moral perversion etc. and
exposes Israel to international barracudas.

Muslims will tell you that moral perversion,
for example homosexuality, are American/
Jewish(interchangeable) practices the
Americans/Jews/CIA/Mossad/Hollywood Jews
(your choice) are promoting in their
societies(domestic and foreign) in order
to destroy Islam.

Jun 18, 2009 - 10:01 am 34. John Dirlik:

Inverting reality seems routine for the Israel-worshipping crowd. Palestinians want Israel’s “destruction” – while it is Israel that is busy destroying any prospect for a Palestinian state through illegal settlements in the occupied territories. Palestinians must “recognize” the Jewish state – while Israel not only refuses to recognize Palestine but devastates its democratic institutions by jailing one third of its democratically elected parliamentarians. Palestinians must “renounce violence” – while Israel in Gaza seals one of the most crowded areas on the planet to prevent the population from fleeing before beginning its bombardment on a weekday at noon, timed precisely as streets are teeming with thousands of children on their way to and from school.
Palestinians must stop “incitement to hate” – while only recently Israeli soldiers proudly sported T-shirts depicting a pregnant Arab woman framed in crosshairs under the caption: “one shot – two kills.” Arabs want to “push Jews into the sea” – while Israel herds Palestinians into the open-air prison of Gaza. Hamas must stop “rocket attacks” -with no mention that Gaza is home to many Palestinians expelled by Zionists in 1948 from the Arab village of Najd, literally erased from the map by Israel only to reappear in 1951 as the Jewish town of Sderot.

Jun 18, 2009 - 11:34 am 35. P. Ami:

David Surls,

Christians have plenty of places that are theirs and their presence in Israel is as a welcome guest so long as none make claims of ownership. It is the Jewish State of Israel.

Jun 18, 2009 - 12:01 pm 36. Self-hating Boomer:

The clear aim is to keep up a steady stream of attacks on western Jerusalem neighborhoods in order to pressure Israel into ceding eastern Jerusalem.

If it would stop there, some would say that it’s worth it. The real point is that it won’t.

Jun 18, 2009 - 12:08 pm 37. Self-hating Boomer:

P. Ami,

This is kind of off-topic, but when I was in Jerusalem a little over year ago, I noticed some IDF troops starting to assemble outside of the Church of the Holy Sepulcher. It was past the Catholic Easter and before the Orthodox Easter, and the place was mobbed with Russians. It seemed that there was some sort of altercation. From what I understand, this happens from time to time there.

My point in mentioning this is that for the Israelis, providing governance and security for the Christian (and Muslim) sites isn’t a privilege, but a responsibility, that I’m sure they’d rather not have. The keep order there not because they want dominion over these locations, but because Jerusalem is such a hodgepodge of religious sites that it’s impossible for more than one entity to be charged with that responsibility.

Christians (and Muslims, for that matter) should be thankful that the Israelis are providing security and free access. I know that some grumble, but they really don’t want the alternative.

Similarly, Lake Kinneret, aka the Sea of Galilee, is ringed with Christian shrines. The Israelis provide domestic tranquility for free. Such a deal.

Jun 18, 2009 - 12:24 pm 38. Chesler Chronicles » No “Illegal” Settlements=No Jews in the Middle East:

[...] language of lying propagandists in order to tell some buried truths. My blog yesterday was titled End the Illegal Occupation of Jerusalem. Many people have read this and many have posted interesting [...]

Jun 18, 2009 - 12:44 pm 39. Bohemond:

John Dirflik:

So when the “Palestinians’” constitution, leaders, media, even schoolbooks and kiddie shows all shriek for Israel’s destruction and the slaughter of Jews, they’re just kidding?

“while Israel in Gaza seals one of the most crowded areas on the planet to prevent the population from fleeing before beginning its bombardment on a weekday at noon, timed precisely as streets are teeming with thousands of children on their way to and from school.”

Talk about inverting reality!

The only obstacle to peace, now and for the last sixty years, is the fact that the “Palestinians” don’t want it.

Jun 18, 2009 - 12:53 pm 40. Self-hating Boomer:

How can President Obama, a graduate of the Harvard Law School, not understand that the catch-phrase “two state solution with the Palestinian right of return,” by definition, means the death of the Jewish state?

Do I really have to spell it out?

Jun 18, 2009 - 1:16 pm 41. Shefali:

I am an Asian woman, and I don’t get this “white guilt” nonsense. What is wrong with holding Palestinians to the same standards as Jews? When you have a double standard, you are actually condescending to the Palestinians because you imply they are incapable of acting as morally as the Jews. With Obama – I have no idea why the Jews in this country voted for him so overwhelmingly when any serious examination of the facts would have shown that he was not going to be a friend of Israel… maybe American Jews no longer care about Israel? McCain and the media did not do their job of really questioning Obama’s positions – I guess they were too afraid of being charged with racism, but it’s actually racist to hold one group, in this case blacks, to a different standard than another. I am thrilled we have a black man as President, but I wish it was someone besides Obama, and I wish people had grilled him more thoroughly when he was running.

Given how he’s been handing foreign affairs and the economy so far, it’s going to be a long 4 years and I bet most of those who voted for him will be disillusioned.

Jun 18, 2009 - 2:13 pm 42. John Dirlik:

If Palestinians deserve blame, it goes way back to naively expecting imperial Britain to honour its promise of independence if they revolted against their Ottoman overlords. It is for ignoring the depth of colonial contempt for native populations despite its blunt articulation. “I do not agree that the dog in the manger has the final right to the manger even though he may have lain there for a very long time,” Winston Churchill explained in 1937. Citing the aboriginals of America and the blacks of Australia, he continued, “I do not admit that a wrong has been done to these people by the fact that a stronger race, a higher grade race, a more worldly-wise race, has come and taken their place.” With impudent temerity, Palestinians disregarded their rung in the hierarchy of races, as they did more recently by insisting their democratic elections be respected even if the outcome displeased Israel.
Still, not every Palestinian grievance is self-inflicted. Jews and Arabs in Palestine co-existed for centuries before the creation of modern Israel. The seeds of conflict were only sown in the 1880’s when European anti-Semitism gave birth to a Zionist movement that sought to recreate a Jewish homeland in an already populated Palestine. Arab hostility to waves of European colonizers with ambitious territorial designs was hardly irrational. Neither was Palestinian anger at the breathless hypocrisy of Western countries that shut their borders to Jews fleeing the Third Reich but magnanimously voted to dismember Palestine for a Jewish state. For decades, Palestinians adamantly refused to recognize Israel, incredulous the international community was asking them not only to renounce their homeland but also grant legitimacy to the country that usurped it.

Israel’s rise to regional superpower status factored largely in the 2002 decision by the Arab League to finally offer it full diplomatic recognition, in return for withdrawal from the occupied territories. Even Hamas in 1999 proposed a long-term truce, with its blind and paraplegic founder suggesting they “leave the bigger issues for future generations.” The Hamas offer still stands, though Sheikh Ahmed Yassin and several of his successors fell to Israeli missiles.

Evacuating the West Bank and sharing Jerusalem remain anathema for many Jews who regard a large and powerful Israel – even at the cost of Palestinian subjugation – as the only reliable insurance policy against a second Holocaust. While understandable for a people traumatized by centuries of anti-Semitism culminating in the Shoah, this sentiment is dangerously misguided. Denying someone’s freedom can never provide security. The opposite is true; is it not the ultimate irony that Jews today are safer in Berlin than Jerusalem? More secure in Tehran than Hebron?

Jun 18, 2009 - 3:29 pm 43. MiamaMan:

41. Shefali:

1) [I am thrilled we have a black man as President, but I wish it was someone besides Obama, and I wish people had grilled him more thoroughly when he was running.]

There you go, you’re correct. I ain’t racist, but did not vote for Mr. Obama. I would vote for JC Watts or Ken Blackwell in no time (especially the latter). These are 2 African-Americans, which Obama is not. Obama was given a free ride many a time. McCain was the lesser of 2 bad choices, and I still smarting because I believe he let me down by not pressing Obama further.

2) [Given how he’s been handing foreign affairs and the economy so far, it’s going to be a long 4 years and I bet most of those who voted for him will be disillusioned.]

I agree.

Jun 18, 2009 - 3:51 pm 44. Blackwater:

Just one of many Israeli grievances which the international community just ignores. And the excuses I get from my liberal friends are ridiculous. After I finally manage to convince them that “No, Israel and the arab muslims aren’t equally good and bad or civilized and uncivilized” they’ll then retort by saying “Well, yeah. Since Israel is so much more developed and enlightened than the arab muslims who are so oppressed by Israel, then we should have much higher expectations for Israel than the arab muslims.” Well, fine. But that doesn’t mean we should ignore all the evil bullcrap the arab muslims are doing and make excuses for it while blasting Israel for much more minor offenses. But they simply won’t agree. They’ll continue to protray Israel as evil Nazi slavemasters and arab muslims poor victims who are just lashing out at their oppressors. We’ll never make progress if we aren’t honest and fully critical of the BS that is being done by both sides. Or more realistically, we will make “progress” and by progress I mean Israel will get totally screwed over and the islamic jihadits will have won. Screw that.

Jun 18, 2009 - 4:53 pm 45. Fausta’s Blog » Blog Archive » Miracle-grow and universal hair coverage in the roundup:

[...] Speaking about healthcare, read this Open letter to Obama on health care, especially what a plan that would reform health care will need to have. —————————————– Phyllis Chesler: No “Illegal” Settlements=No Jews in the Middle East. While at Phyllis’s, don’t miss also End The Illegal Occupation of Jerusalem. [...]

Jun 18, 2009 - 5:59 pm 46. Carol:

As always, such an enlightening read. Thank you, Ms. Chesler.

Jun 18, 2009 - 6:05 pm 47. joeblough:

How can President Obama, a graduate of the Harvard Law School, not understand that the catch-phrase “two state solution with the Palestinian right of return,” by definition, means the death of the Jewish state?

The audacious dope is so very shallow that one is tempted to believe that he might actually not know. But that is too much even for him.

Barking Insane O’Bambi is perfectly content with “the death of the Jewish state“. In fact, I am convinced that he sees Israel as a western colonial incursion on the 3rd world which must be corrected ASAP … that means getting rid of the Jews, in case anybody is confused.

He makes this transparently clear with his every word and choice.

Jun 18, 2009 - 9:12 pm 48. Chileno:

#42 Such gross distortion of history….

“If Palestinians deserve blame, it goes way back to naively expecting imperial Britain to honour its promise of independence if they revolted against their Ottoman overlords…”

When did the British promise independence specifically to “Palestinians”? Please name your source. On the other hand, Lord Balfour clearly stated in 1917 Britain’s desire to help the Jews establish a homeland. Some Arabs may have contributed to the demise of the Ottoman Empire, but it was the Jews who put up blood and treasure to fight the Nazis. Palestinian Arabs, led by the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, allied themselves with the Germans, hoping a Nazi victory would help them impose a “final solution” of their own for all those troublesome Middle Eastern Jews. Guess who lost…

“Jews and Arabs in Palestine co-existed for centuries before the creation of modern Israel…” You make it sound so peaceful. Christians and Jews living in Moslem lands were considered dhimmi, a form of second-class citizenry whereby they were levied extra taxes, and faced certain restrictions (e.g. a dhimmi could not bear arms, or testify in court against a Muslim). They could live among the Muslims, so long as they understood themselves to be a lesser form of being.

Jews did not live in peace. Tiny Jewish communities in Safed, Tiberias and Jerusalem were subject to routine prejudice and persecution, which were punctuated by pogroms. Here’s a link to a narration of a pogrom that took place in Safed in 1834. http://www.zionism-israel.com/log/archives/00000349.html

“…a Zionist movement that sought to recreate a Jewish homeland in an already populated Palestine.” Are you implying there was no space for Jews? Though not barren, Palestine was sparsely populated: about 500,000 people in the 1880s. Check out this British film from the 1920’s, and judge for yourself: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuEI7hLGtT0 Few locals would sell land to the newly arrived Jews. So while Arabs kept the West Bank highlands, the Jews were forced to purchase swampy, malaria-riddled lands near the coast. And yes, they BOUGHT that land from rich Damascus/Cairo landowners.

“Arab hostility to waves of European colonizers with ambitious territorial designs was hardly irrational.” Are you playing the “Greedy white colonizer vs. poor dark-skin local card?” Are you justifying violence? Are you justifying the pogroms of the 1920’s? The massacre of Jews in Hebron? In Kfar Etzion? Are you denying Jewish presence in Palestine that dates back for 3,000 years? Jews are not exploiting colonizers, they are members of an ancient local tribe, whose numbers, though diminished, never disappeared, who now welcomed the return of their long-lost brethren. In any case, whose land are we talking about? Do not confuse land ownership with land sovereignty. Sovereignty was NOT Arab, but Ottoman, and later British. The Arabs cannot claim what was never theirs.

Many Israeli Jews did not come from Europe, rather from Arab nations, some escaping hostile local Muslims. As of today, 41% of Israelis Jews originate from ARAB lands, not Europe. This, in part due hundreds of thousands of Jewish refugees chased away from Arab lands with little more than the shirts on their backs from 1948-1952, who resettled in Israel. You don’t hear about these refugees, because Israel absorbed them, rather than leave them to rot in “refugee camps” for political purposes.

“…hypocrisy of Western countries that shut their borders to Jews fleeing the Third Reich but magnanimously voted to dismember Palestine for a Jewish state.” Even BEFORE WWII, it was painfully obvious that the Jews and Arabs would be ungovernable under one state. The 1937 Peel Commission already called for a two-state solution. A Jewish homeland, something the British had promised since 1917, was not the product of post-Holocaust benevolence, but, given local hostilities, an inevitable reality. By 1948 there were already 600,000 Jews living in Palestine, a third of the total population. Was this not their land as well? Arabs love say how Jews got “more” land than the Arabs, but forget to say most of the land the Jews got was the uninhabitable Negev Desert.

The Palestinians could have had their state in 1947, but they refused. And no, they did not sit idly by “incredulous” as you imply, they fought hard for what they thought was theirs. But they lost. Sorry, losers of war do not get to dictate the terms of peace.
It’s true that Israel, in the name of “security,” destroyed many Arab villages, and probably did force some Arabs out. Most left out of fear of war (like in all other conflicts). Yet the thousands of Arabs who stayed behind were granted citizenship. The few Jews still present in the West Bank after the armistice were summarily expelled. Who’s practicing ethnic cleansing?

Why is the “Right of Return” so sacred? After WWII the Soviets and the Poles annexed ONE QUARTER of Germany (East Prussia, Silesia, all lands east of the Oder), and expelled over 12 million Germans, many whose families had been living there for centuries. 3 million died in the process. Yet nobody claims their right of return there. Perhaps it’s because Germany took in those refugees and treated them as citizens, instead of placing them in overcrowded, filthy refugee camps for 60 years.

Arabs vociferously criticize the British for partitioning of Palestine, yet say not a word about the British partitioning of India to create Muslim Pakistan. That partition caused the displacement of 14 million Hindus and Muslims, with about 500,000 dead. Yet again, nobody decries the Right of Return.

“Even Hamas in 1999 proposed a long-term truce” Are you really that naïve, to believe Hamas, whose charter calls for the destruction of Israel and the killing of Jews, would not use a truce to build up its weapons arsenal? Unless there is a binding peace, there’s no guarantee of security.

“Evacuating the West Bank and sharing Jerusalem remain anathema for many Jews …” Poll after poll shows the majority of Jews in favor of a two state solution (i.e. giving up the West Bank). True, Jerusalem is a tricky issue. But for most the sticking point is not Jerusalem, it’s the lack of a negotiating partner on the other side. You are right in one thing: Palestinians believe ALL of Palestine is theirs. When they call for an “end to the occupation” they don’t mean the West Bank/Gaza, but ALL of Palestine. They don’t recognize Israel, nor are they interested in peace with Israel, because in the end they want ALL lands possessed by Israel. What is there to negotiate about?

Israel has made its share of mistakes, and there are many current policies I do not agree with (e.g. West Bank settlements, Gaza blockade). But making mistakes does not invalidate a country. I question the legality of some of Israel’s policies. I do not question the legality of Israel. Do you?

Next time you wish to bring a historical perspective to this argument, please quote from history, not from some Left-wing blog.

Jun 18, 2009 - 11:31 pm 49. Dave Surls:

“Christians have plenty of places that are theirs”

Yeah, and Israel is one of them, seeing as how that’s where Christianity originated.

Jun 19, 2009 - 3:19 am 50. Davida Rosenberg:

Please send a copy of Aaron’s book to Evangelicals for Social Action. Boy, do they ever need a ‘clue.’ They like most gentiles simply do not ‘get it.’

Davida Geller Rosenberg
from the Sheep pen

Jun 19, 2009 - 6:14 am 51. Self-hating Boomer:

49, You obviously are completely without clue about the history and geography of Israel, Judaism, and Christianity. The area covered by Jesus and the apostles was very limited: Bethlehem, Jerusalem, a semicircle around the west coast of Galilee, and Nazareth. And that’s it. In a car, you can hit every significant Christian shrine in two days. Anything outside of that narrow corridor that has anything to do with Christianity are Crusader (or Knights Templar, etc.) sites; placed long after Jesus’ time.

And Jesus was born into what religion, and what nation?

Jun 19, 2009 - 9:44 am 52. Linda Rivera:

To John Dirlik #34

Israel does not attack PA Muslims. Israel conducts acts of self defense only against Islamo Fascist terrorists!

Why do you selectively ignore that Gaza has a border with EGYPT! 57 Muslim countries. 22 HUGE, OIL WEALTHY Arab countries. More than enough oil money and land for PA Muslims! It is the Islamic world that is cruel to their PA Muslim brothers, refusing to help them!

Surrounded by a vast sea of hostile enemies, TINY, vulnerable global-jihad embattled Israel-NOT ENOUGH ROOM FOR JEWS in the Jewish homeland.

Jun 19, 2009 - 2:35 pm 53. Linda Rivera:

All that the US/EU ever required of the PA/PLO is to say the right words in English and continue MURDERING Jews.

In accordance with the Koran, PA/PLO broke Oslo-Road Map and every Peace agreement as anticipated by the US/EU. In Islam, agreements are made to be broken when Muslims become strong enough to subjugate/destroy hated non-Muslims. Dar al-Islam are the nations conquered by Islam which are now Islamic. Peace via Islamic conquest. The peace US/EU/UN seek for Israel.

DECEITFULLY Called the Arab/Israeli Conflict, it’s GLOBAL JIHAD Against Israel and the Free World. Aided and abetted by Western ruling elites.

Every concession. EVERY Israeli Land surrender results in vastly increased Islamic terror and war! The murderous peace process: LAND For WAR! As a result of Israeli land surrenders, every Israeli is under missile threat from either Hizbullah or Hamas, or both.

Demanding a Muslim terror state reducing tiny Israel at mid-section to 9 miles wide INDEFENSIBLE, Auschwitz borders is wickedly seeking a Second Holocaust!

Only 60 years after the Holocaust and international elites are again going after the Jews. When ruling elites go after the Jews, they have a list. Hitler murdered six million Jews and murdered millions more of non-Jews.

The time is long overdue for millions to constantly protest in the world’s streets, the PLANNED Second Holocaust of Jews.

Jun 19, 2009 - 2:48 pm 54. Linda Rivera:

Muslim immigrants to our countries have NEVER hidden their agenda of Islamic conquest of our countries:

Council on American-Islamic Relations: “Islam isn’t in America to be equal to any other faiths, but to become dominant. The Koran, the Muslim book of scripture, should be the highest authority in America, and Islam the only accepted religion on Earth.” – Omar Ahmad (CAIR co-founder).

Addressing a youth session at the 1999 Islamic Association for Palestine’s annual convention in Chicago, CAIR (Council on American-Islamic Relations) founder Omar Ahmad praised suicide bombers who “kill themselves for Islam,”
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=52184

Anti-Israel, Anti-Jew, Israeli leaders in their despicable, treasonous policy of allowing Arab Muslim squatters on JNF/Jewish land and/or giving Muslims JNF/Jewish land – are actively seeking Islamic conquest of ALL Israel. In addition to violent jihad and cultural jihad, Muslims openly state they will achieve Islamic conquest of non-Muslim countries via demographics.

Via passing out warning papers all over Israel and posting up signs, Israelis must be woken up to this danger immediately. Israelis must take to the streets by the millions, surround the Knesset, and demand a patriotic government.

MUSLIM Demographics (very alarming)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-3X5hIFXYU

In Sweden, many Muslim youth wear a t-shirt proclaiming: “2030-then we take over”

The END of EUROPE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfOmQ4Eo_as

Jun 19, 2009 - 3:03 pm 55. Joseph Tafra:

“I’ve been saying for years, the only way for western civilization to survive is to:
1) nuke much of the Arab muslim world
2) destroy Al arabiya, Al manar, and Al jazeera
3) bomb as many madrasses as possible
4) deport as many muzzies from the USA and Europe

And then maybe the civilized world will survive”

You are clearly an inhuman hound, someone should shackle you to an Islamic terrorist, as you clearly share their mindset about the value of human life. I hope one day you realise that acting like a hateful genocidal swine is not the way to promote western civilisation.

Regards,
J. Tafra

Jun 19, 2009 - 8:01 pm 56. Dave Surls:

“The area covered by Jesus and the apostles was…”

…in Israel (at least while Jesus was alive).

That’s why I said Christianity originated in Israel.

Jun 19, 2009 - 9:52 pm 57. caestal:

““The area covered by Jesus and the apostles was…”…in Israel (at least while Jesus was alive).
That’s why I said Christianity originated in Israel.” Of course, since they were Jews and all, I reckon that wouldn’t prove anything but an additional historical claim for the Jews?

But that is neither here nor there. Israel has plenty of room and tolerance for people of all religions, all backgrounds… as long as they are not busy trying to murder other Israelis.

Jun 20, 2009 - 4:15 am 58. Richard Pond:

I enjoyed your article..
Have you ever read the book of Amos(from the Tanakh)??
Chapter 9 is very positive: In verse 21, G-d is speaking:”I will raise up the House of David that is fallen, and repair its breaches, and raise up its ruins; and rebuild it as it was the days of old, that they(Israel!!!) may possess the remnant of Edom; and all the nations who are called by my name, says the Lord who does this.
verse 14: I will restore the fortunes of My people Israel; and they shall rebuild the ruined cities, and inhabit them; they shall plaat vineyards, and drink the wine….
They shall never again be plucked up out of the land WHICH I HAVE GIVEN THEM

Jun 20, 2009 - 11:23 am 59. Dave Surls:

“Of course, since they [the original Christians] were Jews and all…”

If Christians are Jews (which they are, as long as they keep the covenants), then they pretty much have to have a claim on Israel. Or so, I reckon.

“Christians have plenty of places that are theirs and their presence in Israel is as a welcome guest so long as none make claims of ownership.”

Baloney. As a practical/moral matter, there’s been a Christian community in Bethlehem for around 2,000 years, and Israel belongs to them as much as it belongs to anyone. They aren’t “guests”, welcome or otherwise, and it isn’t up to arrogant twits, like yourself, to decide who is a guest in the land of Israel, and who isn’t.

If it’s a religious matter, then God decides who is a Jew and who isn’t, and God decides who the land of Israel belongs to…not you. You aren’t God.

If none of the above applies, if there are no morals or there is no God, and it’s all a matter of pure naked force, then Israel simply belongs to whoever is strong enough to hold it…and that group which self-identifies as Jews doesn’t have enough muscle to hold onto Israel.

If people who self-identify as Jews start telling Muslims and Christians that they have no right to lands they’ve lived in for centuries, sooner or later, the people who self-identify as Jews will get their asses kicked out of Israel (again). Not only will you alienate Christians and Jews who actually live in Israel, but you’ll alienate their co-religionists who live outside of Israel as well (and obviously, that’s already true in the case of the Muslims).

IOW, if you’re looking for an ass-kicking from God, Muslims and Christians…then keep talking that kind of talk, and you’re definitely going to get it.

Jun 20, 2009 - 1:53 pm 60. Dave Surls:

“Not only will you alienate Christians and Jews…”

Correction: That should read “Christians and Muslims…”.

Jun 20, 2009 - 4:08 pm 61. Self-hating Boomer:

there’s been a Christian community in Bethlehem for around 2,000 years, and Israel belongs to them as much as it belongs to anyone.

Bethlehem isn’t in Israel, Einstein.

If people who self-identify as Jews start telling Muslims and Christians that they have no right to lands they’ve lived in for centuries,

If. But it hasn’t happened, and never will. Israel allows free practice of all religions. Ask the Bah’ai and the Druze.

Jun 21, 2009 - 9:40 am 62. ahad ha'amoratsim:

Dave Surls, yes, Israel endangered the Christian community in Bethlehem — by believing the lies of the the murderer Yasser Arafat and his murderous thugs. It is not Israel or Jews who are terrorizing Bethlehem’s Christian community. The Christian community wanted Israel out of their town and they got it. Now see where it got them. The only thing that keeps Palestinian Muslim activists from murdering Palestian Christians has been Israel.

Jun 21, 2009 - 11:07 am 63. Dave Surls:

“Bethlehem isn’t in Israel, Einstein.”

It’s currently under the nominal control of the P.A. (or whatever they’re calling the Palestinian quasi-government these days), but it’s still part of Israel (as defined in the bible).

When I say that Christianity originated in Israel, I’m OBVIOUSLY not talking about the modern state of Israel, because Christianity came into existence 2,000 years years ago, and the modern state of Israel wasn’t formed until 1948. Seems pretty easy to understand to me.

Try googling Eretz Yisrael, read a little bit about it, then tell me that Bethlehem isn’t in Israel.

And, don’t worry about being ignorant. It’s curable.

Jun 21, 2009 - 12:51 pm 64. Dave Surls:

“If. But it hasn’t happened, and never will. Israel allows free practice of all religions. Ask the Bah’ai and the Druze.”

That’s why I said “if”.

And, we weren’t talking talking about tolerance of religious practices, we we’re talking about who Israel belongs to.

Jun 21, 2009 - 1:01 pm 65. Canadian Heeb:

I wrote to the JNF as a result of this story and their response was: “The assertion is completely false. JNF’s mandate covers land bought on behalf of Jews and our work is limited to within the “Green Line” .”

Not sure what to believe…..

Jun 22, 2009 - 8:51 am 66. Nicolas Krebs:

“MUSLIM Demographics (very alarming)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-3X5hIFXYU” (Linda Rivera)

See a debunk of this faked video (although funny, especially the 8.1 children/woman fertility rate of Muslims in France) in Tiny Frog, Muslim Demographics, 2009-05-03, http://tinyfrog.wordpress.com/2009/05/03/muslim-demographics/ , Duncan Macleod, Muslim Demographics on YouTube Abuse of Statistics, 2009-05-11, http://www.postkiwi.com/2009/muslim-demographics-on-youtube-abuse-of-statistics/ , Steve Letendre, Muslim Demographics Debunked, 2009-05-26, http://rationalysis.blogspot.com/2009/05/muslim-demographics-debunked.html .

Jun 28, 2009 - 3:06 am 67. Petra:

People need to wake up to the fact that Obama was BORN a Muslim, was RAISED a Muslim, was INFUSED with Marxist Muslim ideology, and now IS doing MORE than any other radical anti-Israel/anti-Jew/anti-American Muslim in America has done…NOW that he was elected AFTER he insisted that he was NOT a Muslim.

Obama is just like all the other lying sacks in the Muslim World, and in the media, especially our own MSNBC and that despicable Politifact (the St. Pete Times Factcheck clone), continue to maintain that Obama is NOT a Muslim.

Meanwhile, as Obama tosses Israel under the bus and to the wolves in the PA, the anti-Semites in the US and around the world continue to bash the “Jewish Lobby,” who, obviously are not having much of an impact on the Muslim-in-Chief in the WH.

Along with that bashing, we also have 21st Century replays of the 18th Century blood libels against the Jews, along with the “Protocols” conspiracy that “those greedy Jews want to replace the Arab World with a Greater Israel.”

Apparently, Obomb-o, as an ignorant, Jew-hating Muslim, also believes all of that BS just like his buds: Jeremiah Wright, Rashid Khalidi, Al-Mansour, George Soros, Jessie Jackson, and even Shillary “I am not a supporter of Israel either” Klinton.

The ONLY policy that the PA understands is disproportionate military force applied disproportionately.

Sep 23, 2009 - 11:13 am

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