On June 16, 2009, according to the AP, President Sarkozy denounced the Iranian government’s “brutal” reaction to “demonstrators protesting the nation’s disputed election. Sarkozy calls the situation in Iran “extremely alarming” and says Iran’s clampdown on demonstrators was “totally disproportionate.” Sarkozy also said: “The ruling power claims to have won the elections … if that were true, we must ask why they find it necessary to imprison their opponents and repress them with such violence.”
On that same date, June 16th, according to the Wall Street Journal here’s what President Obama had to say. He “voiced concern about how the election had been conducted, although he fell short of denouncing the vote. What Obama himself actually said was this: “It is up to Iranians to make decisions about who Iran’s leaders will be. We respect Iranian sovereignty and want to avoid the United States being the issue inside of Iran.” Obama then went on to say that “the world is watching” and to describe the demonstrators as “inspiring, regardless of what the ultimate outcome of the election was.”
On June 19th, CBS News quoted President Obama again. This time he said: “The last thing that I want to do is to have the United States be a foil for — those forces inside Iran who would love nothing better than to make this an argument about the United States. That’s what they do. That’s what we have already seen. We shouldn’t be playing into that … now what we can do is bear witness and say to the world that the incredible demonstrations that we’ve seen is a testimony to — I think what Dr. King called the — arc of the moral universe. It is long but it bends towards justice.”
I am not entirely sure what this means but I wonder if this is what Attorney General Robert Kennedy and President John F. Kennedy said to Dr. King or to James Meredith’s supporters in the 1960s when they were beaten, murdered, and imprisoned in southern jails? In 1962, our government sent 13,500 federal troops to Oxford, Mississippi to quell racist rioting there. True: This all happened on sovereign American soil. But isn’t President Obama a citizen of the world, a universalist, someone who prides himself on his knowledge that we all live in a global community?
On June 22, the Wall Street Journal editorial stated the following: “Mr. Obama finally stiffened his rhetoric on Saturday, calling “on the Iranian government to stop all violent and unjust actions against its own people. The universal rights to assembly and free speech must be respected, and the United States stands with all who seek to exercise those rights.” This is an improvement, though he said this only after both houses of Congress condemned Iran’s crackdown on Friday.”
‘Tis true: America has a long history of meddling in foreign affairs, and we have supported corrupt tyrants in the service of the stable, status quo. President Obama, for all his calls for “hope and change” is following traditional American policy. N’est ce-pas? (Isn’t that so?). Allow me to clarify: I am not calling for boots on the ground, for an expansion of the war that America is already waging in Afghanistan and Iraq. I am merely calling for more principled, more “inspiring” words on behalf of freedom and women’s rights from our very eloquent American President, our Master Wordsmith. At least that.
And, I am calling for one law for women in America. I hope President Obama supports this view.
As for my part: I have already begun to remember my love of French literature, cheese, wine, cooking, perfume, fashion, and art. Ever since Chirac coddled Arafat, and De Gaulle opened the French borders to Muslim immigration (in return for hoped-for oil markets) , I have rarely indulged these guilty pleasures. Now — Vive La France!
UPDATE:
Today, Britain’s Daily Express notes that a group of 58 MPs, from both the Left and Right, called upon the French Parliament “to take action against ‘oppressive dress that breaches individual freedoms’”.
Journalist Peter Allen estimates that 100,000 French Muslim women wear full burkhas. Communit MP Andre Gerin called the burkha and niquab a “moving prison.” Women’s rights groups, including Muslim feminist groups, have supported similar measures.
“Housing Minister Fadela Amara, a women’s rights campaigner of Algerian background, expressed alarm at the number of women who were ‘being put in this kind of tomb’, adding: ‘We must do everything to stop burkhas from spreading.’”
The rector of the Paris Mosque, Dalil Boubakeur, also supported an inquiry, saying that “covering women’s faces was a fundamentalist practice which originated in Afghanistan and was not prescribed by Islam. ” He was opposed by Mohammed Moussaou, the head of the French Muslim Council, who “accused lawmakers of wasting time on a fringe phenomenon.”
“To raise the subject like this is a way of stigmatising Islam.”
Yes, it sure is. But westerners do so, not only to discourage further Islamist immigration into France, but because western values and laws are offended by Muslim and/or “cultural” practices such as veiling, arranged marriage to first cousins, polygamy, and honor killing.
Of course, after the accusation of “profiling” or “stigmatizing” is raised, the very next accusation is usually this: Indeed, a spokesman for The Muslim Council of Great Britain just said: “Unfortunately there is pressure on women to dress skimpily in the west. ”
Thus, since every culture objectifies women, one way or the other, no culture should be charged with this as a crime. Rather, if one culture forces/influences women to wear bikinis, then Islamist culture actually seeks to correct that by “covering” their women so that women may be able to avoid the male “gaze,” and in order to avoid being “Orientalized.”
But every line that Edward Said, (the author of Orientalism), wrote is a lie or, at best, a half-truth. Western culture has been “had.” Read my good friend Ibn Warraq’s book all about this. The title: Defending the West. A Critique of Edward Said’s Orientalism.
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141 Comments
1. Pajamas Media » Obama vs. Sarkozy on the Burqa:[...] the entire story here [...]
Jun 22, 2009 - 11:30 am 2. Marie Claude:“It’s almost as if we’ve elected a Frenchman president of the United States”
I consider this as an insult to us
until this week-end Sarko didn’t know wich attitude to adopt for the Burka (he is a political man who cares of the polls and medias), it was also the twitter reaction that made the balance for the anti-burka’s, I was part of this tiny manifestation
Jun 22, 2009 - 11:48 am 3. Ian Thorpe:They don’t have a lot of time for politically correct doublespeak in France.
Plus of course BO is a closet Muzza my friends in the local Pakistani community are sure of it) so he’s hardly going to upset the boys is he?
Jun 22, 2009 - 11:48 am 4. Eric Florack:How bad is it when the French show more courage in such matters?
And how bad is it likley to get?
Jun 22, 2009 - 11:51 am 5. Professor Guvinoff:A US president with virtuosity in the art of dissembling waxes eloquence about our future of tolerance, respect, unclenched fists, etc… Hang on to your burka, progress is coming!
Jun 22, 2009 - 11:51 am 6. The Shadow:Chesler showing her one track mind again
Jun 22, 2009 - 11:52 am 7. Marie Claude:“As for my part: I have already begun to remember my love of French literature, cheese, wine, cooking, perfume, fashion, and art. Ever since Chirac coddled Arafat, and De Gaulle opened the French borders to Muslim immigration (in return for hoped-for oil markets) , I have rarely indulged these guilty pleasures. Now — Viva La France!”
you can still drink your sweet “charteuse”, it’s a drink that is secially made for american consumers
about Chirac, he ain’t that suppo of islamists, he warned Iran in an interview ofjanuary 2006 that he would use nuclear power against any attempt of Iran to attack a western country, but unfortunately he wasn’t follow by Germany, but US medias retransmitted his interview (with an evident irony)
Jun 22, 2009 - 12:01 pm 8. Reaganite Republican:Obviously -although it’s the last thing Team Obama wants to hear- Ronald Reagan’s support of Poland’s Solidarity in the dark days of the Soviet-ordered crackdown is the model here- not the preposterous straw-man argument of “what are you going to do, invade?” disingenuously presented by the do-nothing, Obamapologist left.
And isn’t this what George W Bush told you was going to happen in the Middle East in the wake of Iraq’s liberation?
Maybe that’s why Barack Obama has so little apparent interest in finishing the job in Iran… no matter how much it benefits the US and free world.
That, and the fact that he’s already piled all his chips on legitimizing this vile regime- and a democratic revolution at this point would be downright embarrassing for him.
Jun 22, 2009 - 12:02 pm 9. jerryofva:Obama identifies with the “oppressed” of the world and would desires that the US become aligned with the third world, particularly the African and the Islamic states. I think he is driven by his need to seek approval from his long dead absentee father. Third world dictators are really father figures to him and he wants their approval. The unwritten rule among African and Islamic political leaders is “thou shall not criticize your peers.” There was only one leader who didn’t sign up for this…the great Jomo Kenyatta of Kenya.
Obama is all about the narrative that America and Israel are the cause of all the worlds problems. If only America would side with the third world and Israel ceases to exist then harmony would prevail throughout the Mideast and the world. The political crisis in Iran has exposed this as a false narrative yet Obama remains in denial. He will push forward with his project to appease the Mullahs and give tacit support to their program for annihilation of Israel.
Jun 22, 2009 - 12:03 pm 10. David Thomson:“The ruling power claims to have won the elections … if that were true, we must ask why they find it necessary to imprison their opponents and repress them with such violence.”
Please note that Sarkozy is not taking sides! He is merely pointing out that the Iranian leadership should live up to its own alleged ideals. Didn’t it commit itself to fair elections? There is no need for Obama to say he’s supporting Ahmadinejad, Mousavi, or even Frosty the Snowman.
Jun 22, 2009 - 12:08 pm 11. AF:Sarkozy is only half right that the burqa is a sign of making women submit.
Jun 22, 2009 - 12:24 pm 12. tim maguire:Most converts to Islam in the west are white women of childbearing age. They have chosen Muslim submission and very strick sex-roles. Women who are ex-Muslims often complain about Muslim women who veil themselves actually looking down on women who don’t veil themselves as being ‘immodest’, even slutty.
That is the unspeakable reality that male politicians and stupid white feminists always prefer to avoid. It’s about a vicious attitude towards the whole spectrum of western women that is really held by veiled women. By hiding behind their veils, these women can manouevre the men in their communities to violent actions like honour killings of young women who ‘dishonour’ their families by dating non-Muslim men, or becoming Christians.
Veils are actually completely unnecessary as forms of modesty. In reality, they only succeed in drawing even more attention to themselves in western society. The best way to be modest in western society is to wear normal, non-revealing clothing and no veil – and not to play the game a lot of Muslim women play which is to wear veils AND tonnes more makeup than most western women would wear for their day-job.
I’m as embarrassed by our accidental president as anyone, but I’m with him on this one narrow issue. If I want to wear a burkha, I will and nobody but my boss during working hours or the Transportation Secretary while getting my driver’s license picture taken can tell me otherwise.
Women being FORCED to wear a burkha against their will is a different issue and should be dealt with differently.
I also agree with number 8–that what is unfolding in Iran (and elsewhere in the Middle East) is what GWB predicted. I have to wonder how long it will take people to admit just how much he was right about.
Jun 22, 2009 - 12:25 pm 13. Pee Wee Herman, Community Organizer:Hmm. That’s 1200/57 = 21 mosques per state!
Jun 22, 2009 - 12:28 pm 14. Self-hating Boomer:Well, I reckon it was. But since it’s now fashionable to apologize for others’ words and actions, I’m sorry.
Maybe Ms. Chessler should rephrase and say that it seems like the current POTUS is like the American caricature of a Frenchman. I don’t know if that makes you feel any better, but I believe that it’s more accurate.
Jun 22, 2009 - 12:34 pm 15. Robert V:“…I want to say it solemnly, it will not be welcome on the territory of the French Republic.”
Yeah, see, this is anit-freedom. As in not freedom. As in the opposite of freedom. Obama’s position was for freedom. I, as a libertarian, must agree with Obama.
And as far as submission goes, it is already illegal in the US for any man to force any woman to wear whatever he wants.
Jun 22, 2009 - 12:37 pm 16. Marie Claude:“Please note that Sarkozy is not taking sides!”
Sarkozy has always condamned the Iran policy made by mullahcraty, in the occurence Musavi is also a mullacraty offspring
AF you’re right
I would add that Burka wasn’t the normal and traditional outfit for our maghrebin and african population, it’s a Talebani and fondamentaim muslim brotherhood diktat
Jun 22, 2009 - 12:39 pm 17. George Jochnowitz:The world is a complicated place. George W. Bush and Jacques Chirac joined to sponsor Reolution 1701, which led to the unilateral withdrawal of Israel from Lebanon in 2006 and saved Hezbollah from destruction.
Jun 22, 2009 - 12:39 pm 18. Delia:Can I wear a burka when I have a ‘bad hair’ day?
Oy vey.
Jun 22, 2009 - 12:41 pm 19. Self-hating Boomer:It’s a cross between gang colors and a nun’s habit. It’s mostly for identification, but there is, as you suggest, another element involved that forms the nexus with the left: moral vanity. It allows unremarkable people to show off their (generally false) piety.
Of course, the Obamites feel an affinity. They’re cut from the same cloth.
Jun 22, 2009 - 12:42 pm 20. Zetta:Obama is an idiot
Jun 22, 2009 - 12:43 pm 21. Marie Claude:Self hating boomer I appreciate it as a French, but it won’t change the effect, cuz many persons of Chester’side think we are the counter image of their great spirit !
but they ignore what really is our life and fightings, they carry on their parisian postcards, cuz these are mainly anglo-saxon spirited opinion, and their papers, when they can’t find anymore strories on the weird albatros sex life , they jump onto the French, if not anything bad to be written, then they search on the Germans’ back LMAO
Jun 22, 2009 - 12:46 pm 22. Phyllis Chesler contrasts Obama and Sarkozy. | Vlad Tepes:[...] Chesler@Pajamas Media. Bless them all: [...]
Jun 22, 2009 - 12:49 pm 23. Marie Claude:Delia, ya don’tneed a burka then only if your boobs are falling and or your legs getting spoiled with varicoses veins
Jun 22, 2009 - 12:49 pm 24. ic:Men who needed to veil their women are afraid of competitions for their women. They are impotent and lack of self-esteem. Those women who voluntarily burqa themselves are likely to be ugly, afraid to compete with prettier more arractive peers.
Jun 22, 2009 - 12:52 pm 25. Kristi S.:I hate the burqua. The wearers make me think of someone with leprosy, forced to cover her diseased self from the world.
A couple of years ago, a girls’ school in Saudi Arabia caught fire. The vicious religious police of that country would not let the girls out of a burning building with their faces uncovered. Girls burned alive. But at least modesty was preserved.
Jun 22, 2009 - 1:06 pm 26. SYD:My immediate reaction to Sarkozy’s statement was… “Is this a deliberate smackdown of Obama policy?”
http://syd4.blogspot.com/2009/06/no-more-burqa-wearing-in-france-per.html
Mr. Sarkozy seems a little too bright to NOT realize what he has just done to set himself at odds with Mr. Obama.
Leave it to the French to lead the way for women!!
SYD
Jun 22, 2009 - 1:27 pm 27. Violet:Although I believe that a Muslim woman should wear whatever SHE wishes, I am indecisive about this whole issue.
Jun 22, 2009 - 1:38 pm 28. MiamaMan:A Muslim woman should not be forced to unveil herself any more than she should be forced to veil herself. Some Muslim women find freedom and safety in covering themselves while there are those who consider it a symbol of oppression.
But what if the burqas or niqabs could be used to disguise criminals or terrorists? How are we supposed to differentiate between those who wear burqas and niqabs out of genuine religious conviction and those who have sinister intentions?
Bonjour Marie Claude!
He, he, he. Ceci est votre ami, l’idiot. Calmez-vous s’il vous plaît, mon cher ami.
Fantomas Sarkozy est notre héros. Permettez-nous de connaître les dernières théories de la conspiration. Vous pouvez toujours obtenir une opération plus tard. Quel est le pourcentage de chômage y Frog terre?
A bas la burqa et vive le roi du Bling Bling Sarkozy !!!!!!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuJ4HP2r6us
Ici Pierrot.
Jun 22, 2009 - 1:48 pm 29. Tina Trent:Obama is untroubled by the troubling strain of misogyny that runs through the left in America, and this is one of his most frightening attributes. Through working in politics, I gradually came to realize that the self-identified leftists simply despised women — a hysterical contempt that began with the Herb Aptheker-era activists who shaped the president’s political philosophy.
Totalitarianism is now strongest in those states where “liberation” and “justice” movements hinge on oppression of women. Obama not only doesn’t recognize this: he supports it.
Tim Maguire may feel that wearing the burka is a neutral personal choice: it is not. It is an expression of hatred and contempt for all women and especially those who do not wear it. It stands for enforcing a code on all women, unlike most other religious orders’ garb.
It also shows how far American feminism has fallen that they (selectively) cannot attach a negative value to the submission of women.
Jun 22, 2009 - 1:50 pm 30. Pee Wee Herman, Community Organizer:Marie (23), I remember seeing a Muslim personals ad on the internet somewhere, with a bag lady looking for a honey. The picture was of her in the full-faced burqa. In other words, you couldn’t tell anything from the picture (including that she was really a she).
In English, there’s an old expression “buying a pig in a poke” (”poke” as a noun being an archaic word for “bag”). That expression came to mind.
Jun 22, 2009 - 1:52 pm 31. SYD:Amen to what Tina just said!
The women of the U.S. do not need Obama’s permission to “cover their hair”:
http://syd4.blogspot.com/2009/06/news-for-president-obama-women-in-us.html
But the wearing of hijab goes beyond that…. and drifts dangerously into empowering men to inflict the worst kinds of abuses upon their sisters, mothers and wives…
Let the world know it, Mr. Sarkozy!!
Jun 22, 2009 - 1:59 pm 32. Mitzi Alvin:Regarding the veil: Be it hijab or naquib or burka, it is punishment for being female. It’s purpose is to put the onus of male sexual aggression on the woman. As a corallary a woman who is not modest, not properly covered up, is considered fair game. Or as one Austrailian imam put it, “fresh meat.” Thus women, who in the Qur’an are deemed not responsible enough to lead their own affairs, are, in this instance,responsible for any harm that comes to them from male sexuality. The idea is not merely erase women from public presence, but to demonize them as a destructive force.
Jun 22, 2009 - 2:19 pm 33. Marie Claude:Miaman, aren’t you part of the ~10% of America’s unemployment rate ?
Jun 22, 2009 - 2:39 pm 34. MiamaMan:Oui, Marie Claude, Mais j’ai plusieurs propriétés, à la fois ici et en Bulgarie, en plus d’un compte bancaire. Nous avons également la famille à Paris, en Bour-La-Reine, et de la Loire. C’est pourquoi j’ai tant de voyage, et ne doivent pas aller au travail chaque matin, comme vous. OK?
Jun 22, 2009 - 2:52 pm 35. Louis Santacroce:“And as far as submission goes, it is already illegal in the US for any man to force any woman to wear whatever he wants.”
Uh…Robert V, have you stuck your head outside the door lately?
Never thought I’d want to move to France. Then again, it seems to suit David Sedaris.
Jun 22, 2009 - 2:52 pm 36. Solkhar:Aparantly no-one got the difference and that there is actually not much conflict there at all.
Burqa – head to foot covering that is a tribal-inspired Arab cultural method of hiding women and keeping them second class. Not actually Islamic but Arab-fundamentalists (wahhabists/salafists) have exported and Afghani tribals embraced it.
Hijab – scalf or scalves to cover the hair for the purpose of modesty, supported and accepted by around 60 to 70 per cent of the female Muslim population of the world as a sign of modesty and would not go without it. Some would argue that it is religous, it fulfills an element of modesty.
Two very different subjects – Sarkozy says no to the burqa – I think he is right and spot on!
Obama talks about defending the female Muslim’s rights to wear the Hijab – I think he is right and spot on!
Did Chesler not get it, or chose not to?
Solkhar
(Solkhar is a retired western diplomat and specialist in terrorism-financing. He is a liberal Sunni-Muslim by choice since the age of 17. He has settled in the historic Moroccan city of Marrakech.)
“Solkhar’s World – Views from the Atlas” (www.solkhar.blogspot.com)
Jun 22, 2009 - 2:57 pm 37. Leo Appel:Isn’t President Obama speaking for a rather large segment of American males? That segment would like very much to return to the mores of the 50’s when women were more subdued. The Burqa is a little extreme but, hey, if that’s what floats your boat. If Muslim American women choose it and the men approve it, who’s to complain?
Jun 22, 2009 - 3:18 pm 38. Marie Claude:Solkhar
“Hijab – scalf or scalves to cover the hair for the purpose of modesty, supported and accepted by around 60 to 70 per cent of the female Muslim population of the world as a sign of modesty and would not go without it. Some would argue that it is religous, it fulfills an element of modesty.”
sorry, but we are a secular state, and when mulim girls and or women wanted to wear it in our administrations and our schools, it was not because of humbleness, but of provocation, that is far from modesty as you’re referring to ; now, I don’t mind if they are wearing such outfits in their private meetings, or even in the street if they feel like it, these were/are their tradition,but we don’t have to support them as a component of our republican traditions, which are beyond religious obediences ; in any case, the burka is an external element to their tradition.
Jun 22, 2009 - 3:32 pm 39. Marie Claude:Miaman you’re too modest, umm would you invite me to one of your hunting parties ? LMAO
Jun 22, 2009 - 3:34 pm 40. Marie Claude:hunting parties, silly laptop !
Jun 22, 2009 - 3:35 pm 41. MiamaMan:35. Solkhar:
I think everyone knows the different, Maese Solkhar.
I can just tell you about the shock I experienced in my last visit to London, quite recently. Hundreds of women in full Burqa, surrounded by a creche of children. Hotel across Hyde Park on the corner of a full-blown Arab/Muslim neighborhood. Neighborhood signs in Arabic. Lone Englishman ranting against Muslim immigration atop a stand in Hyde Park.
Hijab OK, all right. But many of us don’t want the Burqa in the US, we sympathize with President Sarkozy on that.
Burqa = Repression, regression, abuse, etc, etc, you name it.
Please allow me to humbly tell people in the Muslim world to take the Burqa AND SHOVE IT!
Women are beautiful, and we want to see their faces here, we don’t have any reason to mask them.
Besides, who can tell if it is a woman, a man, or a camel?
Jun 22, 2009 - 3:38 pm 42. MiamaMan:D’accord. Laissez-moi réfléchir.
Cependant, vous avez dit vous n’êtes pas Madame Marie Claude Bourbonnais. Ou êtes-vous? s’il vous plaît me dire la vérité.
http://www.pbase.com/gilp/mortal_kombat_with_marieclaude_bourbonnais
Je possède une maison dans un bel endroit dans la montagne, près de Sofia, a appelé Muhovo.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhovo
Calme, beaucoup de consanguinité, pas des musulmans, de nombreuses chèvres, endroit idéal.
Jun 22, 2009 - 4:04 pm 43. Gary Ogletree:Recently there was a blog featuring photos of Iranian women being harassed and arrested by the Black Crows and police for showing a little hair above the forehead. One of the Crows in several of the photos was a striking beauty. While the Crows generally looked miserable, she had the serene glow of a true believer, her expression showed no anger, but suggested a good nature in spite of the company she kept. I wonder if the blatant fraud of the election, the brutality of the repression, might stir her awake from her delusions.
Jun 22, 2009 - 4:09 pm 44. wGraves:In the vernacular of a previous generation, this used to be called a sellout. Now it’s foil avoidance or something. My how things change.
Jun 22, 2009 - 4:12 pm 45. Dave:Sarkozy did NOT say the burqa would be agin the law in France. He said it was not welcome. Which means that Frenchmen get to stick their Gallic noses up at women wearing same. And that the gendarmes get to bust the
(towel) heads of anybody who tries to force women to wear same.
Now THAT is in the finest Texas tradition, not to mention that of the Madam Me Zelle
from Army Tears.
The Prophet Obama on the other hand implied
(intentionally or otherwise) that the USA was
supportive of forced wearing.
Just goes to show you that damnyankees can be found in various colors whilst stouthearted redneck Bubbas have spread even to France.
MiamaMan; Marie Calude: What is French for
Jun 22, 2009 - 4:21 pm 46. JFM:“I love it when a plan comes together”?
I’m as embarrassed by our accidental president as anyone, but I’m with him on this one narrow issue. If I want to wear a burkha, I will and nobody but my boss during working hours or the Transportation Secretary while getting my driver’s license picture taken can tell me otherwise.
Pleaaaaaase! Do you think those women want? Another point: if you are born North African and you don’t wear burkha (or your wife doesn’t wear one, then the islamists visit you and begin to suggest you are an apostate (meaans death you know?). Better give them an excuse.
A fuibak point: burkhas are also a way to show the extent and intensity of islmist control over people originating friom Muslim countries, in other wolrds a way to tell the government: don’t, eg tolerate cartoons about Muhammad or else…
Burkhas are not only repellent, allowing them curtails liberty.
Jun 22, 2009 - 4:28 pm 47. Delia:There are actually idiotic young American women who think the ‘burka’ is cool.
God save us.
Jun 22, 2009 - 4:39 pm 48. MiamaMan:45. Dave:
[MiamaMan; Marie Claude: What is French for
“I love it when a plan comes together”?]
Dave: In Spanish you say: Me encanta cuando un plan se realiza (pardon my French).
As for Frog language, I leave it to L’extraordinaire Marie Claude, la tête dure femme de Bretagne.
Now, how do you say it in “redneck”?
I love when them plans get reckoned (please provide the accent for me).
Jun 22, 2009 - 5:02 pm 49. MiamaMan:Delia:
Cowgirl, I can’t hardly behave. How was the pizza you made for the family last weekend?
Jun 22, 2009 - 5:07 pm 50. Marie Claude:Remember, with us men, the formula: HITITWITHAWHIP!
Miaman I didn’t I wanted to go into a villa, but to a hunting party, that means lot of people around, and I might be awkward, and miss the wild turkey, while I would fire at you
Jun 22, 2009 - 5:46 pm 51. Rose:Women wear the Burka when their husbands ask them to. In general, they aren’t threatened and they are fine with wearing it because of their tradition — but it is, in fact a tradition where rape and repression are allowed. The burka was first implemented by Arab extremists.
And though they say that they don’t mind, what would happen if a woman dared to ‘disobey’ her husband? This sort of abuse still happens in the Western world, because due to their ‘tradition’, women won’t report it. I have a lot of Muslim friends.
That was just clearing things up — as far as the debate between America and France, well they weren’t even talking about the same thing. The burka is a lot different than the hijab.
Jun 22, 2009 - 6:05 pm 52. Marie Claude:for us, there is a contradiction, The parliament (with Sarko’s majority) just passed a law that forbids to any striker to wear a hood, thus to hide his face features, and 60 lefty parliamenters just ask for an anti-burka law, so if Sarko had his say that this is a concern of freely practicing a religion, that would say he isn’t coherent too. Now, he isn’t that radical anti-muslims, he wanted to abolish the law of 1905 that separates the church from the state ; this law empeaches the state to finance religious cults and their afferent buildings too; it’s OK for catholics and protestants, buildings already exist, but for the muslims, they get the money from states that sponsor fundamentalism and terrorism, it’s a problem of controlling where does the money come from),arguing that the muslims must have their cult buildings too, (thus better controlled with a official religious hierarchy, that would have to respond of the muslims actions and or revendications), but 80% of the French are opposed to the cancelling of this law, and idem as for the veil law, the same proportion are for the law, now that the burka went on the board, papers ask in a poll if we would support the anti-burka law, the majority of the French would.
Jun 22, 2009 - 6:21 pm 53. fred:Given that the various governments of the western world have gone the path of commerce (ie $$) rules, there really is a very simple solution. Security is the goal of many government organizations from police to the US Dept of Homeland Security or the Department of Commerce.
No organization operating in a commercial manner – (ie money or goods / services are exchanged) shall permit the entry of anyone whose face is covered. To do so automatically and immediately voids any property and personal liability insurance. Having such insurance should be mandatory.
Note this covers both males and females and motorcycle helmets and burqas.
Jun 22, 2009 - 6:23 pm 54. Delia:And permits the burqa (and helmets) to be worn in all non-commercial space.
But not in grocery stores, banks or hospitals. and perhaps religious halls where collections ($$) are taken.
MiamaMan,
Der Pizza was great but I made wayyyyyyyy too much. Can I smuggle you some under my curtain-rod Scarlett O’Hara dress?
As to topic:
Can you imagine if the ‘burka’ was a KKK sheet? HA! So much insanity.
One of my daugher and I’s favorite movies is “Not without my daughter” and we probably watch it at least a few times each year.
Jun 22, 2009 - 6:37 pm 55. Jerry:The problem is, “why is the Burka repressive?” Some answers:
Would you want to be treated by a doctor wearing a burka?
Would you go to a psychologist or a lawyer who was wearing a burka?
Would you buy clothing from a sales person dressed in a burka?
Would you want your children taught by a teacher wearing a burka?
Would you ask directions from a woman wearing a burka?
Would you help a struggling mother with packages if she was wearing a burka?
Would you thank someone for holding open a door if she was wearing a burka?
Would you smile or in other ways acknowledge a woman wearing a burka?
The answer to most or all of these questions is a resounding “No.” We in America have no experience interacting with people who wish or need to hide. Modesty is a question of attitude.
In America a woman can be as sexual as she wishes within very broad limits and if she is attacked, molested, harressed, or demeaned, it is the fault of the man. If these things happen to a woman in Islamic culture, it is the fault of the woman. That cultural difference speaks to the conflict between Islam and the West. At this point there does not seem to be a compromise, although other cultures have found a middle space. As usual, it seems sex is at the center of culture. Feed all males Depo Provera or synthetic estrogens and everything will be just fine. No more wars, no more babies, no more families.
Jun 22, 2009 - 6:48 pm 56. ObamaRepublican:What an awful proposal. You don’t move towards a free society by making people less free.
Jun 22, 2009 - 7:45 pm 57. D'oh!:I don’t think France (or America or anybody)should ban the burka or any other religious symbol or practice that does not directly infringe on another person’s rights. HOWEVER, using illegal, even unconstitutional acts to force a woman to wear a burka should land you in the same kind of trouble that any other assault or threat of assault would. And allowing religious ‘justice’ to be meted out irrespective of a nation’s laws, as is reportedly now happening in the UK and other places with sharia courts, is completely despicable.
Jun 22, 2009 - 7:56 pm 58. Paul of Alexandria:Violet(27):
When you move into another country, you must follow the laws and customs of that country. In the US, we are generally accustomed to seeing to whom we are speaking, so as to be able to guage their reactions. In court, of course, the accused has the right to face the accuser.
In addition, and parhaps more importantly, In Islam, the burka is worn not just for modesty, but so that women – with their deadly sexual charms do not stand any chance of tempting men – who are not expected to be able to resist. (That’s a very short synopsis of Arab/Muslim views on sexuality, see “The Arab Mind” by Raphael Patai for a very good and detailed look into the culture and mindset.) In the West, of course, we expect men to be able to control their impulses and mind their manners no matter what the provocation. Theoretically, at least, a women should be able to walk naked down the street untouched. In Muslim lands, that would be literally unthinkable. Again, in our country they should expect to follow our ways and customs.
Jun 22, 2009 - 8:05 pm 59. Paul of Alexandria:Mitzi Alvin (32):
“Regarding the veil: ….”
Precisely, well said.
Jun 22, 2009 - 8:07 pm 60. Dave Surls:“The universal rights to assembly and free speech must be respected, and the United States stands with all who seek to exercise those rights.”–The Prez
Looks to me more like we’re going to stand as far away as possible from the Iranians who are trying to exercise those rights.
Jun 22, 2009 - 8:11 pm 61. lee:The libertarian inside me says people should be allowed to wear whatever they want in their private homes. (In private sector businesses and certain government institutions the rules can change) But if the French president society is just criticizing the burka as oppressive to muslim women, I’m fine with that.
Meanwhile, if compelled to speak on this issue, OUR president would mutter something like “while I personally disagree with the oppressive nature of forcing women to cover their faces, I must also respect muslim culture”, or other such nuanaced speech that offends no one and achieves nothing.
BTW – the French first lady is SERIOUSLY hot. Michelle Obama? PUH-leeze. While the American fashion industry is reliably in Obama’s pocket, real men aren’t acutally into that “suburban mom” look.
“Marie Claude” please confirm that beautiful French women will fall in love with a monstroulsly ugly man with a beautiful mind.
Jun 22, 2009 - 8:15 pm 62. Sapwolf:So many way to go on this one.
Look, I’ve seen some pretty …well…let’s just say a burqua would be welcome on some women.
However, I thought it was optional. Do the French allow the Muslim men to FORCE them to wear them?
Or is this just another attempt by the French to sexualize women and press more young women into the porn industry?
What if a woman WANTS to wear one? Should she be punished.
I’m for freedom.
Jun 22, 2009 - 8:17 pm 63. Sapwolf:I can’t think of anything more debasing to a woman than a French man. OK, in case someone hasn’t said it yet.
Jun 22, 2009 - 8:18 pm 64. marybel:“9. jerryofva:
Obama identifies with the “oppressed” of the world and would desires that the US become aligned with the third world, particularly the African and the Islamic states. I think he is driven by his need to seek approval from his long dead absentee father.”
Jerry, I can’t help but agree with you that on a psycholical level Obama is driven by a need to seek that approval from his dead father. Just as Clinton was driven in many ways by his past, so is Obama driven by his own father problems. Perceptive of you. It always gives me pause when Americans elect a man who has “issues.” In addition, Obama is a classic “red diaper baby,” strongly influenced by his mother’s anti-American beliefs. Obama’s emotional reaction is typical of one who has been abandoned by his father and needs to somehow redeem that insufficiency.
Jun 22, 2009 - 8:30 pm 65. F15Mech:To sum up…
Sarkozy – Women should not be forced to wear a burqa if she does not want.
Obama – If a government murders women on the street because of their protesting, I don’t have a problem with it, and will still invite the same government officials to planned 4th of July parties.
Jun 22, 2009 - 8:34 pm 66. Craig:So America it obvious we have a Facist muslim president, and the French have a level headed American style president with balls. We had a chance and in Nov. 52% blew it…….
Craig
Jun 22, 2009 - 8:44 pm 67. Marie Claude:“I don’t think France (or America or anybody)should ban the burka or any other religious symbol or practice that does not directly infringe on another person’s rights.”
the burka is an offence to our traditions, to our consciousness, plus weared as so, it is some form of proselytism, and give to the muslims, women that wear it, a feeling to belong to a superior group
“le niqab lui fait miroiter la jouissance d’appartenir à une communauté purifiée, qui détient la vérité, supérieure au reste du monde. Les gourous tentent de créer l’unité totale entre adeptes: ils exagèrent les ressemblances en effaçant toutes différences -sexuelles, sociales, familiales, etc.- à l’intérieur du groupe. Ils exacerbent les différences avec tous ceux qui ne sont pas comme eux… Toutes les idéologies de rupture reposent sur des exaltations de groupe”
http://www.lexpress.fr/actualite/societe/la-burqa-est-un-accoutrement-sectaire_769320.html
Jun 22, 2009 - 8:57 pm 68. Catherine:Sarkozy’s Hungarian.
Jun 22, 2009 - 8:57 pm 69. Marie Claude:“I can’t think of anything more debasing to a woman than a French man”
that’s why they make so many conquests in the american reserve of unsatisfied women LMAO
Jun 22, 2009 - 8:58 pm 70. Marie Claude:Lee, you know the tale “La Belle et la Bête”, criteriums of beauty hardly exist for women, but of intelligence, affection, smartness, sensibility, force…
the ugly man mstn’t only have a beautiful spirit but also be affectionated, sometimes ugly goes with naughtiness
Jun 22, 2009 - 9:05 pm 71. Marie Claude:Do the French allow the Muslim men to FORCE them to wear them?
where did you read that ?
“Or is this just another attempt by the French to sexualize women and press more young women into the porn industry?”
yeah, you have all understood, we only think of that
What if a woman WANTS to wear one? Should she be punished.
only if she wants to impose her beliefs on us, and wearing a burka is positively a sign for impressing us
I’m for freedom.
yeah, claro, where did your freedom drive you ? LMAO
Jun 22, 2009 - 9:12 pm 72. Teacher in Texas:You know I laughed at all the nut job conspiracy theories cooked up by the far right fringe in this country about Obama being a closet Muslim or a Muslim sympathazer. I still think its an absurd idea.
But after his Cairo speech, his DHS pretty much ignoring Islamic terrorism, is Monica Lewinskyish bow to the Saudi Prince, his utter silence on the crackdown in Iran…………….well let’s just say my eyebrow is beginning to cock.
Jun 22, 2009 - 9:26 pm 73. Omar:Tim Maguire:
I generally agree with you on your comment of 12:25 p.m., except in this regard: islamic coverings can never be fully removed from the greater social dymanics which give rise to them and on which they they feed. In many islamic countries at least, these coverings are a physical badge of submission to islamic law. Because one’s every LIFE depends on putting on a convincing outward show of modesty and piety in these countries, if left unchecked, the natural and inevitably trend is generally toward ever more extreme coverings until the only truly “pious” women not only completely cover their faces, but live in social seclusion and never go out unless accompanied by a male relative. This is how these women preserve their lives, since the men in these countries are entitled, even instructed, to beat and kill them if they behave in an unislamic, immodest way. This dymanic also causes ever greater public harassment of women who choose less extreme coverings, since, as has been pointed out, the onus to place oneself beyond reach or notice falls entirely on the woman. It is a nasty feed back loop that rewards and encourages what is worst in men at the direct expense of women. Forbidding these coverings in SOME places disrupts this dymanic, because the covering can no longer be an accurate gauge of modesty or piety, since the “uncovered girl” in question might simply be headed off to University or to get her DL renewed. Most men and liberals generally(e.g. Obama) tend to discount this dymanic, but believe it or not, this social violence is the absolute CENTERPIECE of certain homes and neighborhoods in France as well as the US, just as it also exists in certain islamic states. This is what France is seeking to disrupt when it forbids this kind of dress. Notably, the most successfully and civil muslim states like Turkey, Morocco and Tunisia also restrict these coverings in much the same way, precisely because they understand the deeper meaning and potential of having such a uniform badge of “modesty.” ( This is not to say that all such restrictions would be fully constitutional here, but Obama shouldn’t criticise or undermine the actions of such states, which have a far better understanding of such things than he does).
You also write this,
“If I want to wear a burkha, I will and nobody but my boss during working hours . . . can tell me otherwise . .”
Ah, not according to the Obama justice Department:
http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2009/06/us_justice_department_nj_woman.html
Jun 22, 2009 - 9:32 pm 74. Butterfly Mornings and Wildflower Afternoons:I have had a few glasses of wine, so I will say with no remorse whatsoever that those women in burkas scare me when I see them. I always think there is a monster under there, or a bomb to blow us up.
Jun 22, 2009 - 10:03 pm 75. Marie Claude:I have asked a Muslim if he thinks Obama is one, and he said he is. I believe he is in denial.
Sarkozy’s Hungarian.
it’s bizarre he doesn’t speak ungarish, … er umm, neither english, too bad !
Jun 22, 2009 - 11:53 pm 76. Ed Driscoll » Le World Bizzarro:[...] “Sarkozy vs Obama on The Burqa”, Phyllis Chesler compares and contrasts speeches by Presidents Obama and Sarkozy concludes: As far [...]
Jun 23, 2009 - 12:47 am 77. Snorri Godhi:Who could ever have predicted that the French president would stand up for women’s universal rights and for freedom as a universal right
Not most American conservatives, apparently; but keen observers would know that the French are anti-American because they REJECT multiculturalism.
Now, this is obviously a generalization: many French people are pro-American, and some French people are multiculturalists; but on the balance of the evidence, it looks like a fair generalization.
Ever since Chirac coddled Arafat, and De Gaulle opened the French borders to Muslim immigration (in return for hoped-for oil markets)
Perhaps Marie Claude can help us out here: did Chirac really open the French borders to Muslim immigration, and was it from oil-producing countries?
Jun 23, 2009 - 1:12 am 78. susan:here’s a nice compromise. All kinds of veils are forbidden in western countries untill all kinds of religious symbols other than islame will be allowed in every muslim country.
the few of you who have no problem with hijab simply do not understand that it’s a way of the muslimes to say “we won”, we are allowed things that you non-muslims in our countries will never be allowed.
If you do not get this simple concept you are part of the problem and not of the solution
Jun 23, 2009 - 2:27 am 79. Snorri Godhi:WRT to my previous comment, now I see that I misread the article: it was De Gaulle who opened the French borders, not Chirac. Sorry about that.
But I strongly disagree that it was for access to the oil markets: he let in Algerians, not Saudis or Kuwaitis or people from the Emirates.
Jun 23, 2009 - 3:21 am 80. Don:The rise of the Negusa-Nagaste (look it up) is cause for great rejoicing for those who believe that spineless politicians have a future. As the master of meaningless rhetoric and an expert at appearing to be all things to all people (and nothing for anyone save self) he has successfully co-opted his party and most of the media (who’s only priority is self and job security) since they are the same. Sarkozy makes hard decisions, NN makes few (or none) and blames failure on the past or subordinates. Nature abhores a vacuum and weakness, and that is what we have . . . time will tell what/who will challenge us and make changes we can’t avoid dealing with directly.
Jun 23, 2009 - 4:07 am 81. Al:Can we trade, PLEASE!?! We have this farce of a president who is only interested in playing celebrity and has no idea what he’s doing. Sarkozy at least takes positions. This twit is a creation of the media to represent an ideal that doesn’t exist instead of the chicago corruption from whence he comes. 1/20/2013 REAL change we can believe in!!
Jun 23, 2009 - 5:12 am 82. homero:no one who practices Islam is free (that goes for many religions but islam takes the cake)
no one would wear a burqa if they had a choice ..(well maybe if it was really cold outside)
even those who do claim to wear it out of choice do not. as most religions use mind control (I use that word because brainwashing would be too offensive to most) a believer doesn’t have free thought.
religion is the greatest threat to critical thinking ….mainly because it does not allow it.
Jun 23, 2009 - 5:18 am 83. Bohemond:““I don’t think France (or America or anybody)should ban the burka or any other religious symbol or practice that does not directly infringe on another person’s rights.””
Except the burqa is *not* a religious symbol. It is a tribal custom which has been sold as a ‘religious’ imperative by a few cavemen (who represent a minority of the Islamic world). Of the world’s half-billion-plus Muslim women only a small fraction (mostly in Af-Pak and Saudi) are forced to cover their faces.
It’s not dissimilar to female genital mutilation, except that in that case it has become expedient for Muslims and their apologists to admit its non-religious basis.
Jun 23, 2009 - 5:24 am 84. Burkas, Hijabs, Vote Counts and the 4th of July | Be John Galt:[...] that didn’t stop the Germans and
Jun 23, 2009 - 5:28 am 85. Lisa:Of course women feel safe in their burqas. They are forced into them before puberty and are beaten into submission.
Regardless, burqas are a sign of ownership, of interchangability, a loss of identity and a utter lack of agency.
Ban the burqa!
Oh and Obama, you say we protect the right of Muslim women to wear hijab. Do you protect the right of Muslim girls to NOT wear hijab even if their family wants them to?
Jun 23, 2009 - 5:29 am 86. Barbara:What can Obama say about the demonstrators in Iran? Isn’t he the one who sent out instructions to law inforcement to be on the lookout for “right-wing extremists” (AKA little old Republican ladies)?
Jun 23, 2009 - 5:30 am 87. Storkus Maximus:To the burqa defenders: it’s the same as forcing women to wear leg irons or tiny little hobbling shoes.
Jun 23, 2009 - 6:27 am 88. kim:Obama needs to get a clue. I have run into a few women in a burqa (at least I think they were women…who could tell from just eyes), and it was quite unnerving to me.
When you are in a place where you have to go through security to have your lousy little backpack or carry-on checked, why are these people allowed to walk around fully covered, not knowing who they are, wearing clothing that they can hide who knows what underneath.
If they want to wear burqas in the privacy of their own home or relative’s home, I really don’t care. But if you are out in public, the garb needs to be removed. If they want to be able to wear it it public, then move someplace else where it is acceptable.
In my own opinion, women in the US who wear burqas are insulting women throughout the country by trying to take us all back centuries. They need to stop or leave.
Jun 23, 2009 - 6:32 am 89. mdgiles:“Here’s a nice compromise. All kinds of veils are forbidden in western countries until all kinds of religious symbols other than Islam will be allowed in every Muslim country.”
Better yet, lets limit the number and size of Mosques, on the same basis.
BTW, isn’t it a fact, that in Islam, the child of a Muslim father is always considered to be a Muslim by other Muslims.
Jun 23, 2009 - 6:35 am 90. Marie Claude:uh Snorri godhi, you seem so well informated LMAO
The borders to muslim immigration were already opened before de Gaulle second mendate, ya know we were in north Africa since 1830 ; not saying that lots of muslims immigrants came before the sixties, though they were numerous in bataillons in WWI & WWII.
Not only france welcome muslims immigrants at this time, most of the developed europeans nations did. The fact that France need them more, it was becuz of the reconstruction & of the modernisation of France, that hadn’t started as soon as Germany, ya know that we carried wars in Viet Nam and Algeria, where the working class young men were mobilised.
Why the northern Africans immigration was privilegied and not the other english speeking muslim countries ? there was an agreement with the whole colonial empire that allowed that :
1- it was easier to hire populations that already spoke our language, 2- some sort of compensation for having “exploited” them.
Jun 23, 2009 - 6:44 am 91. Mike:3- humm, there are oil and gaz in Sahara, it’s funny that the FLN didn’t destroyed the infrastructures and the pipe-lines when it was easy to make it
People should not be taken in by Sarkozy’s words about Muslim women wearing the Burqa in France.
His words make it sound like he is defending Muslim women’s rights.
However, this is just a by-product of what he really wants to accomplish which has nothing to do with women’s rights in France.
What it has to do with is the significant number of Muslims in France.
What he really wants to do is find a politically correct way to discourage more Muslim immigration into France, especially the ultra religous Muslims. In the same vein under the guise of women’s rights he is trying to make it more difficult for the ultra religous Muslims living in France in the hopes that many will leave.
This speech of his has come shortly after the European Union Parlimentary elections in which the right wing, anti-Muslim faction immigration faction made significant gains, moving the EU ruling body signifcantly to the right.
Jun 23, 2009 - 6:50 am 92. MiamaMan:75. Marie Claude:
[Sarkozy’s Hungarian.
it’s bizarre he doesn’t speak ungarish, … er umm, neither english, too bad !]
Sarkozy is not Hungarian, but French. He was born in Paris. His father was Hungarian and his mother, although a convert to Catholicism, descended from Sephardi Jews.
Wow, I thought every French would know this.
Jun 23, 2009 - 6:54 am 93. Cat72:That’s because Obama is a MUSLIM. How can anyone not see that?!?! Of course he’s fine with burkas, he’s perfectly fine with all things muslim. The more mosques the better as far as this president is concerned. Our founding father’s are spinning in their graves.
Jun 23, 2009 - 7:01 am 94. apodoca:Non, non, non! Pas du tout! Ce n’est pas “Viva la France,” c’est “Vive la France!”
Jun 23, 2009 - 7:07 am 95. Snorri Godhi:Uh Marie Claude, I might be well-informed but I don’t know what LMAO means.
Anyway you have not addressed the issues:
* are the French multiculturalists or not?
* when the French are anti-American, is that because they are multiculturalists or because they are anti-multiculti?
* did De Gaulle intentionally encourage Muslim immigration or not?
* if he did, was it for access to oil markets or not?
NB: these are all straight yes/no questions, and I’d like yes/no answers if that’s not too much trouble. Explanations are optional.
Jun 23, 2009 - 7:53 am 96. abi:wow…is “obama the puppet president” really French?, he’s sure acting like it…
Also, when you go to a country, respect their laws etc…don’t flee from a country and then try to make your host country like the one you fleed from…
Sorta like Mexicans/south americans, and America..Don’t like where they’ve been, so they come over here and try to recreate their cesspool. Leave them burkas where you came from!!!
Jun 23, 2009 - 8:10 am 97. A. C.:President Obama’s support of the burqa, unfortunately has a legal basis in first amendment legal precedent. But he sold out to multiculturalists a long, long time ago. This is demonstrated by his constant apologizing for America.
My own experiences with multiculturalism have led me to ask: Why is it that American culture must always, everywhere, concede to every other culture? Americans should be accepting of the culture of the country where we’re visiting when outside the U.S., celebrating their culture, traditions, eating their food, listening to their music, and mustn’t impose our culture on our hosts. Americans must also accept the culture of immigrants to this country, celebrating their culture, traditions, eating their food, listening to their music, and mustn’t impose our culture on our new fellow Americans. Wait a minute! Why is American culture nowhere acceptable?
While people claiming to be multicultural always claim this isn’t the case, it actually is. Multiculturalism is really only anti-Americanism. I have never heard a multiculturalist support asian or african peoples who adopt American cultural artifacts such as McDonalds, blue jeans or rock music. It is only the surrender of American cultural traditions to foreign traditions that is acceptable to them. This is the multiculturalism that Obama knows and practices, beyond the legal protections afforded to wearing the burqa by the first amendment.
Jun 23, 2009 - 9:32 am 98. rman:When are we going to discss the catholic nuns. Or why women can’t serve as bishops in the church.
But – the burkas must go !
PS:
Jun 23, 2009 - 9:41 am 99. Marie Claude:Would also be nice if we could drop the suits – we need to be a little more practical – Star Trek uniforms
for all.
“are French multicultarists” ? no, it never was a policy of our centralised power since Louis XIV
“when the French are anti-American, is that because they are multiculturalists or because they are anti-multiculti?”
that’s rubbish, it’s “la reponse de la bergère au berger” when anglo-saxons bash us, it’s not an intestine hate, but one of paper-tigers, it’s also a remain of a rebel resistance to the “lecturer” America, especially since the end of WWII.
” did De Gaulle intentionally encourage Muslim immigration or not?”
he hadn’t to encourage it, it was evident because of the neighbouring
besides, there were no other available labour force that could adapt quickly.
“if he did, was it for access to oil markets or not? ”
he didn’t need, the exploitation Cies were french,frm the origin, and Algerians were unable to exploit the fields by them-selves.
Hope I fulfilled your items, LMAO see urban dictionnary
Jun 23, 2009 - 9:54 am 100. Marie Claude:“wow…is “obama the puppet president” really French?, he’s sure acting like it… ”
is that mind lazyness ? your guy has nothing french, he isn’t EDUCATED, plus he passed us under the bus, he is a typical American, from the ipod generation !
Jun 23, 2009 - 9:58 am 101. susan:“Not only france welcome muslims immigrants at this time, most of the developed europeans nations did. ”
why the broken english quotes of this ** arrogant french frog go always unchallenged?
Only france decided to host a huge number of muslim immigrants during the Degaulle period, no other “developed” EU nation did the same (BTW, I do not consider france do be developed at all).
Sweden, Norway and many others are far more developed than france and never had muslim immigration up until now (NOW is not “when de gaulle was in power”).
Never trust a french person telling you how great their country is. They are liars like Obama apologists.
Jun 23, 2009 - 10:30 am 102. I drive down the dirt roads.:I think they should be allowed to wear the burqa once a year in America, and they should be allowed to wear them on Halloween.
Jun 23, 2009 - 11:32 am 103. Marie Claude:ah, I missed my harpie, did you make a recharge of venon ?
Jun 23, 2009 - 11:34 am 104. Marie Claude:Miaman, I thought you’re were better, you don’t know me
Jun 23, 2009 - 11:41 am 105. sm:very interesting article your points are good and correct .
Jun 23, 2009 - 11:42 am 106. Blonde hair with brown roots.:We should allow them to wear it if they are saying “Trick or Treat”, but I would be afraid to open my door and give them some candy.
Jun 23, 2009 - 11:48 am 107. Delia:I walked into Outback Steakhouse one day, there were some all dressed in this type of clothing, I stopped, and stared because I thought there was some kind of vulgar Klan meeting going on there, and it scared me.
I want to wear a hefty bag in public because it is my religious right. I pray to all mighty Hefty. I also want to wear ‘Kermit the Frog’ slippers and a Miss Piggy mask to work because I pray to Jim Henson.
The key being that *I* choose and yet, I’d be laughed out of town for *my* choices.
-But, when an ‘established’ religion ‘chooses’ for you and you say, “Okay, I must obey”…then it’s ‘OK’ to adhere to whack practices? Do I have that Reverend Wright?
All HAIL KERMIT!
Jun 23, 2009 - 12:37 pm 108. Lisa:78. susan:
here’s a nice compromise. All kinds of veils are forbidden in western countries untill all kinds of religious symbols other than islame will be allowed in every muslim country.
the few of you who have no problem with hijab simply do not understand that it’s a way of the muslimes to say “we won”, we are allowed things that you non-muslims in our countries will never be allowed.
If you do not get this simple concept you are part of the problem and not of the solution
*****
I, as a Jew, am not allowed in some places at all. Can we ban Muslims from part of the U.S. too?
Jun 23, 2009 - 1:04 pm 109. MiamaMan:103. Marie Claude:
[Miaman, I thought you’re were better, you don’t know me]
Oui, Marie Claude, je sais que: vouseu ou aucun sens de l’humour, superficielles intellect. Un désir d’imposer vos idées stupides sur les autres, de manière agressive (probablement de l’âge). Il ne s’agit pas d’une jolie image ce que je vois.
Jun 23, 2009 - 2:11 pm 110. Kelly:Since women who wear the burqa in most Islamic countries are only considered HALF or less as valuable and viable as men – in terms of their basic existence, voting, decision making in the family, legal testimony, property ownership and similar life situations – are they capable to make the decision as to whether or not the burqa is appropriate attire in countries outside their own? (sarc)Next we’ll be expected to provide different entrances and exits to buildings for men and women and then different public transport systems and then…
I’m with the French guy on this one – politics or not.
Jun 23, 2009 - 2:19 pm 111. Marie Claude:Miaman, you’re a blah-blah man LMAO
Jun 23, 2009 - 2:21 pm 112. MiamaMan:99. Marie Claude
[is that mind lazyness? your guy has nothing french, he isn’t EDUCATED, plus he passed us under the bus, he is a typical American, from the ipod generation !]
1) Apparently YOU MUST BE EDUCATED, to opine on others’ education with such assertion. However, it does not show in your case, for much effort you commit to it, je, je, je.
2) A typical American? Why is it that you French got 6 Nobel prices since 2000, but the US got 58 in the same period? Even accounting for population differences, France would be behind.
3) Mam, you have a strong case of Pedantic Frenchism, allow me to prescribe the following: Pastis with 2 Gauloises (no filter), a visit to Burger King or McDonald in Paris, followed by a coffee at Starbucks, closing with 4 Pepto-Bismol tablets.
Jun 23, 2009 - 2:50 pm 113. Delia:Marie Claude, all zee men are smitten with vous. Face it, men love French Women. lol
Jun 23, 2009 - 2:51 pm 114. Snorri Godhi:Marie Claude: it seems that we are in broad agreement here, though not in agreement on some details.
Still, it would be helpful if you said it loud and clear:
Phyllis Chesler is wrong when she says that De Gaulle opened the French borders to Muslim immigration to get access to oil markets.
Will you say that?
Jun 23, 2009 - 3:06 pm 115. George Jochnowitz:LMAO = laughing my ass off.
GJ
Jun 23, 2009 - 3:10 pm 116. Marie Claude:Prof. emeritus of linguistics
Delia I know
especially the Miamamen
Jun 23, 2009 - 3:30 pm 117. Marie Claude:Snorri Godhi
De Gaulle did not open the French borders to Muslim immigration to get access to oil markets.
Jun 23, 2009 - 3:32 pm 118. Hervé:Sarkozy is a master of distraction. He doesn’t care about women’s rights so much as he cares about power, his own. His new financial policies are complicated and potentially unpopular but he knows how to grab headlines by making a provocative statement, like this one about the oppression of women by the burqa.
Jun 23, 2009 - 3:34 pm 119. Marie Claude:Hervé, that Al Jazeera said, so, stop paraphrasing it !
We all know that Sarko is a politician !
Jun 23, 2009 - 4:01 pm 120. Snorri Godhi:Merci Marie Claude!
Jun 23, 2009 - 4:02 pm 121. Sultan Suleiman:Methinks Sarkozy wins “hands down” over B. Hussein Obama in the “gonads” category.
Jun 23, 2009 - 4:04 pm 122. Brian:So far Sarkozy and Netanyahu get high marks this year.Both have a real grasp of what the world faces.And it looks like Bush was right about Iran,North Korea and Iraq all along.Go figure.
Jun 23, 2009 - 6:36 pm 123. Paul -Indiana:So hows the torture issue coming?Any trials yet?Or is it all still in the conspiracy courts?Gotta fight for the rights of THREE known terrorists who would kill americans again once released.I might also add that these individuals have no respect for any law or any human rights.
Im sorry whats that you say?Iran has the right to nuclear power?Sure but not nuclear weapons.And definetly not in the hands of a doomsday theocratic regime.
North Korea is in violation of two UN resolutions.Look it up yourself lefties im not holding your hand.I listened to the B.S for three years.Police state is coming!Conservatives are nazis!Were losing our rights and freedoms!All of it-B.S.
Sorry for the vent Phyllis,but instead if people would actually read UN charters and read the resolutions and compare it yo the nonsense they spout ,well you can understand why im miffed.Be part of a solution not the problem.
#120. Amen to that comment. Our Present…I mean, President is totally gutless.
Jun 24, 2009 - 6:18 am 124. Ike Clanton:The reaction of the Iranian Government is the true face of Islam. Violent, repressive and sadistic. Got that B.O. We don’t want negotiations with monsters. He sits back waiting to see who wins. It’s like placing a bet on the World Series after it’s over. What a loser. Next foreign trip, back to France.
Jun 24, 2009 - 6:44 am 125. jake the snake:Now you know why sheep fear for their virginity so much in Arab lands.
Jun 24, 2009 - 7:46 am 126. Self-hating Boomer:It’s interesting that a year ago, Europe lusted for Teh One, and now that they got what they thought they wanted, they seem to be sobering up rapidly.
Atlas (the US) has shrugged. Now, suddenly, Europe (the French in particular) have come to the rude awakening that there are no adults in the room, and they have to remember how to be adults after 60+ years of being babied by the US.
You wanted your multipolar world, din’t you? You got it. Sux, don’t it?
Jun 24, 2009 - 8:28 am 127. Marie Claude:“they have to remember how to be adults after 60+ years of being babied by the US.”
Did we ? I don’t remember you supported us since De Gaulle, in the contrary, your policies were to put some sticks in our bicycles wheels LMAO
Jun 24, 2009 - 9:03 am 128. TedN:Wow – I just got a Jimmy Carter inspired deja vu moment, thanks Obama…
Jun 24, 2009 - 11:32 am 129. Aaron:Dear Phyllis,
An important thing to remember is that the hijab is a far cry from the burka. Sarkozy is right to ban the burka outright, and you will notice that Obama restricted his comments to protection of the hijab only (if you had done your research, you would know that he has spoken out against the burka before). If you want to ban the hijab, you are not far from having to ban the Eastern European/Russian head-scarf, and then from there you’ll probably have to ban various hats that cover the ears, and so and so forth. Banning a full body suit? Good for Sarkozy. Protecting the hijab because there is a limit? Good for Obama.
AK
Jun 24, 2009 - 11:43 am 130. Self-hating Boomer:‘Scuse me, but De Gaulle was a prick looking for a fight. If he and several of his successors weren’t such complete assholes, we could have avoided a lot of conflict.
Thanks, Marie, for reminding me of why the French are seen as such a bunch of [deleted]. For most of the 20th century, you were.
Jun 24, 2009 - 12:56 pm 131. MiamaMa:Mademoiselle Marie Claude (également connu sous le nom de Miss LMAO)
eerrr, uhhh, ah, ay, errr, Oui, LMAO.
uhhh, ehhh, errr, aahh, ze…Comme je l’ai dit Sarkozy est le hongrois, mais ne parlent “Ungarish”. LMAO.
uuuhhhh, errr, LMAO, ehhh, Sarkozy parle le barrage langues d’oïl. LMAO
Uhhh, aghhh, ehhh, Cette je considère comme une insulte pour nous. LMAO
AAAhhhh, errr, hummm, Je suis le Pied Noir dame de Bretagne. LMAO
Jun 24, 2009 - 5:25 pm 132. Marie Claude:tu t’es vu quand t’as bu ?
Jun 24, 2009 - 6:16 pm 133. Marie Claude:Self-hating Boomer carry on self hating you boom boom
I don’t care
I’m glad de Gaulle existed, just to know that there idiots that can’t stand us
Jun 24, 2009 - 6:18 pm 134. Marie Claude:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1195052/Why-I-British-Muslim-woman-want-burkha-banned-streets.html#
a british muslim is asking for the ban of the burka too
Jun 24, 2009 - 6:32 pm 135. j armstrong:maybe I will buy French wine again
Jun 24, 2009 - 8:04 pm 136. sm:What should be done by the President Obama is done by President Sarkozy.
Jun 25, 2009 - 10:59 am 137. Omar:We hope President Obama will join with the President Sarkozy.
The problem is that there is no choice for females,and they have right to get this choice to say yes for hijab or no for hijab.
This right they should first get in the there home.
“The time when you need to do something is when no one else is willing to do it, when people are saying it can’t be done.”
is what President Sarkozy is doing.
Turkish father stabs 15 year old daughter to death; mother, sister forced to wear hijab . . .
http://www.bild.de/BILD/news/bild-english/world-news/2009/06/25/honour-killing-shocks-germany/turkish-dad-stabs-own-15-year-old-daughter-to-death.html
Jun 25, 2009 - 6:27 pm 138. Marie Claude:between 3.8 million and 4.3 million Muslims live in the country
http://tinyurl.com/npc4cq
Jun 25, 2009 - 8:54 pm 139. akay:Do not waste time on the Hijab….Shariah law is coming soon
Jun 29, 2009 - 4:01 pm 140. I’m with Nick « Wizard Prang’s Blog:[...] Recently, President Sarkozy spoke out in favor of banning the Burka in public. More on the story here, here, here, here and here. It is an incredibly gutsy move, and one that President Obama seems to be unwilling or unable to make. [...]
Aug 21, 2009 - 8:34 am 141. A Primer on ‘Hijab Debate 2009′. « Human Rights in Ireland:[...] [...]
Sep 9, 2009 - 1:33 am