110 Comments

1. Pajamas Media » Another ‘Honor Killing’ in Canada:

[...] Read the rest of the story here. [...]

Jul 23, 2009 - 12:47 pm 2. George Jochnowitz:

As the Chinese proverb says, “Don’t fear slow progress; just fear no progress” (Bu pa man; jiu pa zhan).

Jul 23, 2009 - 12:53 pm 3. "progressive"watch:

These who practice honor killings believe that certain people have the right to murder certain other people; that certain men have the legal right to murder certain women,to be their judge,jury and executioner.

Jul 23, 2009 - 1:15 pm 4. Omar:

Apparently, this group of young muslimas aren’t the only ones to recently buy a one way ticket to a Kingston morgue. The link is currently unavailable, but search the following: Mark Steyn and “watery grave.” . . . It looks like there have been as many as SEVEN recent drowning victims in the past 30 days.

Jul 23, 2009 - 1:42 pm 5. heathermc:

I am so proud of the Kingston police… and very happy that they are applying ‘conspiracy’ law to such honour killings.

Jul 23, 2009 - 1:51 pm 6. Omar:

Correction: not “in the past 30 days”:Rather, there appear to have been as many as 7 WITHIN 30 days of each other . .

Jul 23, 2009 - 2:21 pm 7. Leatherneck:

Coming to a town near you.

ROPMA!

Jul 23, 2009 - 2:51 pm 8. don:

Maybe the Canadians, former subjects of the British Empire, have a better grounded historical consciousness when it comes to “honor killings,” having a history of supervising Muslim countries. The American’s haven’t had that rich “colonial” experience, and so the local American law enforcement authorities are more apt to blame those homicidal motives on global warming, or the ready access to guns, germs, and cold steel rather than risk hurting ethnic feelings.

Jul 23, 2009 - 2:54 pm 9. David W. Lincoln:

Phyllis, I hope you have been keeping an eye on the 4 part series being run in the National Post
on standing up to Iran. Now, this piece by George Jonas, which is added to the end, says a lot.

When people do not want to integrate, they won’t. If they want to, they will.

Now, when it comes to incidentals like preferring perogies to souvlakhi, that doesn’t mean ethnic warfare between the Ukrainians and Greeks.

But, when it comes to tribalism running roughshod over individuality, for instance honour killings; that is a horse of a very different colour.

Those guilty of honour killings deserve capital punishment. Preferably a date with a noose, because the myth of multiculturalism is
more deadly than the toll exacted by those identified with the hammer & sickle, as well as the swastika.

Here are the words of George Jonas (I admit taking a harder line than what he spells out):

Jihad rules! Jews suck!

George Jonas, National Post Published: Wednesday, July 22, 2009

Great moments in opera include memorable entrances, such as the villain Scarpia’s in Puccini’s Tosca. The late Tito Gobbi did it unforgettably. Interviewing the Italian baritone in Rome near the end of his life, I asked how he could make such an impact before singing the first note. What did he do?

“Ah!” Gobbi replied, perhaps a little smugly “I tell you. Nothing.”

“Nothing?”

“Nothing. I let the music play.”

I was reminded of Gobbi when someone raised the question of how we should integrate immigrants into Canadian society. The answer (if you ask me) is we shouldn’t. We should let immigrants integrate themselves. Should we offer incentives for integration? No, integration is its own reward. Should we penalize failure to integrate? Whatever for? The penalty is failure itself. Let the music play.

Three years ago I was looking at web postings by young Muslim women married to young Muslims allegedly flirting with terrorism. (Dubbed the “Toronto 18,” charges were dropped against some, one pleaded guilty and others are yet to be tried.)What struck me wasn’t the women’s hatred for the West and its ways, but that it was expressed almost entirely in the idiom of the culture that was its target. The odious sisterhood chatted on the Internet almost exclusively in English –pretty idiomatic English, actually. In their web postings, the young women revealed themselves, quite unconsciously, as typical products of the Canadian society that was the object of their venom.

I don’t mean their feelings and opinions, but the words used to express them. Their feelings were appropriate for wives of men accused of planning to blow up the Toronto Stock Exchange (or fantasizing about it). Such women may be expected to admire the Taliban and hate Jews. The remarkable thing was seeing their admiration and hatred posted, not in a foreign language, not in misspelled, broken English, but in the colloquial idiom of soccer moms in Toronto’s bedroom community of Mississauga.

Take, for instance, Ms. N (an order by Ontario Superior Court Justice Bruce Durno bans naming names while sentencing procedures are being put on hold until August): Ms. N is married to one of the alleged ringleaders among al-Qaeda’s Canadian acolytes. “Look at these pathetic people,” she wrote about a group of Muslim homosexuals. “They should all be sent to Saudi, where these sickos are executed or crushed by a wall, in public.”

Pathetic? Sicko? By offering the views of Wahhabist Islam on homosexuals in words she borrowed directly from our culture, Ms. N was demonstrating that acculturation, a much-touted remedy for the risk of fragmentation in immigrant societies, isn’t all that it’s cracked up to be. The fact the web postings of Ms. N, or her sister R, or Ms. M or Ms. C, contain only isolated words or phrases of Urdu or Arabic underlines that a person need not retain Urdu or Arabic language skills to retain Urdu or Arabic sentiments. This isn’t because culture is less important than “blood” — there’s no comfort here for believers in racist nonsense–but because the roots of culture go deeper than our generation suspected.

Our great-grandfathers assessed matters more accurately. They had taken it for granted that integration is a process of considerable complexity that occurs over historic time. It isn’t achieved by a quick immersion in another culture, even when the immersion is, as in the case of Ms. N & Co., superficially complete. Our generation not only overestimated the effects of such cultural silver-plating, but tried reducing it even further by the imposition of multiculturalism.

Cultural silver-plating may not achieve much beyond teaching al-Qaeda idiomatic English anyway, but multiculturalism makes it stick even less and wear off even quicker. Cultural silver-plating may produce amusing incongruities, like jihadists with pre-nuptial agreements and Wahhabi feminists who retain their maiden names after marriage. But computer-literate fundamentalists take us no closer to a harmonious society. They only illustrate how ultra-liberal policies, slogans and practices confuse and alienate vulnerable youngsters of foreign ancestry and increase the number of our solitudes.

“You don’t know that the Muslims in Canada will never be rounded up and put into internment camps like the Japanese were in WWII!” offered Ms. C in a 2004 posting. Ms. R saw things in even simpler terms: “May Allah curse the Jews,” wrote this 19-year-old product of Canadian inclusiveness and tolerance.

Multicultural Canada is turning from a country of two nations into a country of a dozen xenoliths: Inward looking, hostile fragments, jealously guarding their ethno-religious distinctions as entitlements, while resenting the entitlements of others as privileges. It’s scant consolation that, being culturally silver-plated, such groups are likely to express their sectarian sentiments in idiomatic suburban English, sometimes peppered with current slang, Internet lingo or even mock-liberal concerns.

“By their fruits shall ye know them.” We disdained the American melting pot and embraced multiculturalism instead. We forgot that the opposite of integration is disintegration. Unlike Maestro Gobbi, we weren’t content to let the music play. We insisted on acting, emoting, hamming it up. Now nobody is clapping.

Jul 23, 2009 - 3:38 pm 10. Canada: “Honor Killing” Investigated in Death of Three Montreal Sisters :: Responsible for Equality And Liberty (R.E.A.L.):

[...] Phyllis Chesler: “Kingston Police Call It A ‘Muslim Honor Killing.’” — “If the police are right, this is the fifth known honor killing in Canada since 1999 [...]

Jul 23, 2009 - 4:12 pm 11. rikki:

What a crock of shit. You must be watching from another planet. I live in Kingston and at no time did the police call it a “Muslim honour killing.” You whoever you are are completely fu*****.

Jul 23, 2009 - 4:37 pm 12. carol:

When you leave a country because of the conditions/laws and such..do not move to another country and do your best to make the new country the same as the one you left. the young girls mentioned by David #9, where are there families? Are they behind the attitudes?

Is this the way of Muslims…you don’t like ‘em, so you kill ‘em? Barbarians. They should all drown in their oil..better yet, we should drill and shut them all down , let them get money then.

Jul 23, 2009 - 5:51 pm 13. JamesJoyce:

to this Don character, yes the elder cousins of the Canadians, i.e., the British, have a lot of experience overseeing famine, ethnic cleansing and ethnicide on a mass scale. I am sure this is why they detected a grotesque murder. Perhaps this Don chap should go back to one of the lovey British slums where he will get treated very well for his victorian grotuesqueries. Ah, if only the lower orders would submit to the fanatical ravings of the sad-sack Dons of this world.

down with monarchy, empire, commonwealth and all the other dregs of imperialism, including said don.

Jul 23, 2009 - 6:32 pm 14. Hari Har Singh Khalsa:

It is strange that the article states “he Muslim and Sikh population in Canada is no more than one million” when the Sikh religion is an entirely different religion.

Jul 23, 2009 - 6:43 pm 15. Lee:

David W. Lincoln

Born and grew up as a second class non-Muslim in a moderate Muslim country and receiving my fair share of daily public molestation and persecution. Muslim women do not have any empathy with non-Muslim women. They considered it normal for their men to molest and perpetrate on female kaffirs as nothing more than a cow or animal roaming the streets.

The point I am trying to make is that Muslims disapprove of all cultures and will never accept nor integrate no matter where they live.
The basic fundamental of living in harmony and socializing with other cultures is impractical and incompatible.For example, you are welcome into their home to partake meals with them but Islam will never partake meals in your home or mine because pork is acceptable in our diet but not in theirs. Inter marriage between them and non-Muslims are allow providing the non-Muslim parties convert to Islam. Every convert add strength to their march to world domination. In Islamic countries, it is newsworthy and fanfare for every new convert. Here’s a link to a newspaper in Asia announcing 2 new converts. http://www.brunei-online.com/bb/fri/jul17h19.htm
Muslims who integrate and socialized with other cultures are consider apostate by Islam. The penalty is death. A Muslim will always be a Muslim. The only Muslim who can claimed to be a non-Muslim is a dead Muslim. Even in dead, they will enforce a Muslim burial.
In the Western world, we refer to their preference to stay in any close knit community as ghetto whereas in Muslim countries non-Muslims have no choice but force to live in ghettos to keep their families safe.
Multiculturalism is one of the most damaging creation in Canada and Europe. It serves to point out our differences and divide instead of much more that we share in common that unite us as people. Muslims integration or non-integration in Canada is a conscious choice rather than any perceived difficulties in integration. The same in Europe.

This very sad and tragic death of these poor ladies is a reflection of the Islamic teaching and culture that demands total submission. To stray is to pay the ultimate penalty. DEATH.
Islam whether one view it as a cult or religion is a totalitarian way of life in all Islamic countries. In Western countries, the average perception and understanding of Islam is not really in their consciousness until 9/11 and even today only scratching the surface.

Jul 23, 2009 - 7:11 pm 16. Max Friedman:

To Rikki: Phyllis cites her source as CFRA radio. Check it out. If they did broadcast the news/statements that this was an “honor killing”, then you owe Chesler an apology. If the radio station got it wrong, then they owe the public an apology.

However, you dont’ seem to care that four women/children may have been killed because of “cultural” issues and killed by their own family members.

This is the sign of a sociopath. Bon appetit!

Jul 23, 2009 - 7:18 pm 17. Jancis M. Andrews:

Every would-be immigrant who wants to emigrate to Canada should first be instructed in the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, which states in sections 15 and 28 that women have complete equality with men. Those would-be immigrants who are convinced gender equality is offensive to God, and that men have the right to kill their womenfolk if they judge them to be dishonourable, can then remain in their country, and not come here. They would thus do themselves, and Canada too, a great favour. The last thing Canada needs is immigrants with such wicked, crazy ideas.

Jul 23, 2009 - 7:54 pm 18. Another Muslim Honor Killing « Free Us Now Weblog:

[...] Cross Posted from Kingston Police Call It A “Muslim Honor Killing”Phyllis CheslerPajamas MediaJuly 23, [...]

Jul 23, 2009 - 7:55 pm 19. Gina:

Ok, i wasn’t going to comment until i read carols comment. adding to the anger that sprouts itself from within those that choose to act upon it, does not meant you blame the pod for one pea… it is quite ignorant for you to sit there and talk about “drilling” muslims in one line and then calling them barbarians in the other, please don’t result in making yourself one by choosing words that you yourself dont understand. it was a heinous crime, not because of the culture ( btw islam stands for peace its not a “muslim” way, but it is actually the evil within certain individuals.. you hear of a man that burnt alive a 20 year old woman that was caucasion are you going to call it the christian way of burning alive a female while starving her to death? no you call it an inhumane act of evil.. please an eye for an eye makes a person blind, just pray for the lives lost and pray that those that committed the crime will be punished and the girls will be brought to justice, don’t sit there and add to the hypocrsy of the world. thanks.

Jul 23, 2009 - 8:06 pm 20. Mo:

I agree with Gina…If one American acts like an idiot…U cant say all of them are….There are geniuses who live in that country and contributr to the world….similarly, If a bunch of Muslims act like idiots doesn’t mean you can point a finger at ‘em all…!!!

Plus…Its doesnt really..connect to Muslims in particular…Its as Gina has sadi previously an inhumane act of evil…

Jul 23, 2009 - 8:53 pm 21. ella:

Gina

Islam does not stand for peace, Islam stands for submission.

The root s-l-m from which the word Islam is derived, means”safe and unharmed, unimpaired” Its derivatives include words meaning both “peace” and “surrender” It is the latter meaning that is uppermost in the use of the term Islam, meaning “to surrender oneself, to commit or resign oneself to the will of God” Islam is the act or state of submission; Muslim is the one who submit.

You seems to think that Islam equals culture, and assuming that you are right, it is among the people of Islam (remember, you equated culture with Islam) where majority of honor killings take place.

It is an Islamic culture which which puts “honor” on pedestal and advise its people to defend it even if defense of one person’s “honor” means other person death. And it is that culture wchich excuses these deaths as something which is justified by hadiths even if not, explicitly, by Qu’ran.

And that’s the difference, in Islam honorary (and other) killings can be made in name of religion and sharia rules; no killing can be explained in such way by either Christian religion or by teaching of New Testament.

I can understand you would like to show us an incomplete picture of Islam, but I advise you not to think of others as fools and think that no-one knows nothing about Islam and its culture.

************
I am still not sure that it was an honor killing, I will wait for more evidence. But at the moment on the evidence of this e-mail I rather tend to think that it was a one.

Jul 23, 2009 - 9:44 pm 22. Asim:

To Lee:

CUlture is different from Islam. The problem with my region is that most of the people have been left uneducated for centuries of Western Eruopean rule. NOw, people even educated have begun mixing our old tribal customs, alot of which are wrong (honor killings) with religion. You as a moron dont even look up facts, you believe that bull and take it as is. What this guy did is NOT Islamic, its tribal.

And nobody should act as if Western Europe dint do the same thing. Doesnt any moron remember the Catholic Church, as far as i can tell, THOSE guys repressed women much more, said women were evil. Didn’t the west in the early half of 1900s intorduce mass racism to the world? Wasn’t it the ancestors of many Canadians and Americans who slaughtered the Natives and left them to no more than a few million? Wasn’t it the Canadians who interred Japanese because thety thought they were with the enemy? Wasn’t it Americans who brought West Africans and enslaved them and made them seem inferior cause they were black? Didn’t the British rape lands overseas and steal their cultural items, steal resources, and intorduce racism to them?

Take a look at the ACTUAL religion before you believe what you see on TV or this crappy report.

Jul 23, 2009 - 11:07 pm 23. carol:

Gina,

“RE”read the comment, there is a ???? after the words “kill ‘em”. It was a question I did NOT want to drill people.

ELLA ,# 21, good post thanks .

Jul 24, 2009 - 12:17 am 24. Ahmad r.:

There is no such thing like honor killing in Islam. In fact, Islam is the first religion to abandon honor killing. Before Islam, people killed their baby girls because they believe girls will bring wrath to the family. If you are honest enough to check it in the Quran, you will find that the Quran is questioning why an innocent girl was killed (buried alive)without justice.

That Kingston honor killing I think is nothing more than an isolated criminal act and got nothing to do with Islam and the Quran. There are people capable of doing such terrible killings. We are witnessing the killing of innocent people in Iraq, Afghanistan and other part of the world by drones, bombs and killing machines, without mercy. Hundred of thousands of those Muslims are being killed and nobody bother. That’s criminal too, from your part and from the part of the killer, the US politicians.

To be fair with Islam, please read the Quran and see for yourself that in it you will find wisdom and beautiful way of life that brings peace and sincerity in your life, here and hereafter.

Your negative view about Quran and Islam will not benefit you at all and in fact it proves that you are unfair and prejudice.

Try to use your heart and think cool and fair.
Be wise, and
Good luck.

Jul 24, 2009 - 2:56 am 25. canuck:

This is why both countries need immigration laws that require the refugee to acknowledge adherence to our laws and culture. Deportation of the whole crowd up to first cousins without regard to the consequences on the other end should be mandatory.

At least we have a death penalty in most of our states. This is one very legitimate role for federalism…they admit this subhuman feculent debris they can deal with the consequences with a federal law and a federal death penalty.

Jul 24, 2009 - 3:06 am 26. Ken Besig:

As an Israeli American Jew I can only react to this by feeling that while Moslems murdering their Moslem family members is despicable, I am rather relieved when they carry out their loathesome killings among themselves rather than on my People.

Jul 24, 2009 - 4:01 am 27. em:

Don’t give credit to the police!

The police went out of their way to state that they respect all great cultures in this great country/etc. The CFRA did call this a Muslim Honor Killing – but these are the CFRAs words, not the police. CFRA is a local station here in Ottawa known for its political incorrectness.

Jul 24, 2009 - 5:43 am 28. Jaladhi:

#14, Yes, Harihar Singh Khalsa, I don’t understand either why Phyllis Chesler keeps lumping Sikhs with Muslims whenever she writes about honor killing when in reality there is nothing in common with Islam in Sikh religion. Not only that, in one of her past articles on honor killing she included Sikhs and Hindus in the honor killing trade that is patently Muslim and middle eastern(arabic). I wonder where does she get her “facts”. I took issue with her on this topic in the last article.

Anyway, her article on Muslim honor killing that refers to Muslim and Sikh population in Canada makes totally irrelavent connections to Sikhs (implying Sikhs aslo practice honor killing. Sikhs have nothing in common with Muslims vis-a-vis honor killing which is wide spread among Muslims and in Arabia.

Anyway, the solution to every problem in Islam is death and honor killings simply reflect that.

Jul 24, 2009 - 5:56 am 29. Kanwal:

Upon reading all the comments of different people it seems that there is a competition of proving which religion is right or wrong. We should concentrate on the loss of life of these helpless children and their relative. The sad part is that parents who should be protecting them were the cause of this heinous crime.God which is the same for all religions does not give any person a right to kill an other human being.I think there is more honour in protecting our children than killing them.We should condemn the evil people and not argue about religions. May God Bless their souls and give them peace which they could not get in this world.

Jul 24, 2009 - 6:20 am 30. James Walker:

This is being discussed on The Lowell Green Show right now on CFRA radio in Ottawa.
Lowell tells it like it is (not politically correct at all).

http://www.cfra.com/listen/default.asp

Jul 24, 2009 - 7:26 am 31. noir:

Read this article to understand the issue better:
http://www.soundvision.com/info/misc/honor.asp

Jul 24, 2009 - 8:53 am 32. ella:

YUP, there is no honor killing in Islam, only many, many followers of Islam do honor killing. For example, in 2005 the average annual number of honor killings in Pakistan ran up to more than 10,000 per year.

LOL, yes, West Europeans introduced racism to the world, only other people practice racizm not calling it racizm. For example in Chad there are (muslim) northerners and (non-muslim) southerners. Until the start of French colonial rule in 19th century Chad’s black African population was enslaved by Muslim northerners. Not only privileged elite had non-muslim slaves, working class Muslim fishermen on Lake Chad owned black slaves.

RIGHT Isolated criminal act – “Up to a dozen have died for the same reason in Canada in the past decade, and it’s happening more often, says Amin Muhammad, a psychiatrist who studies honour killings at Memorial University in Newfoundland”

As for sikhs – Although Sikh religion is quite different from Islam, Punjab was under the Muslim rule for quite a long time. Majority of Sikhs live in Punjab so it is no wonder that they adopted some Muslim customs. Unfortunately honor killing is one of them. . That’s is why (I think) author of this article may sometimes talk about Sikhs and Muslims,

http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?showtopic=45034
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2000/nov/20/3

@ Kanwal

We should concentrate on preventing that loss of life. Not excusing. Not explaining. Not telling everybody that it is “not different from other domestic crimes which are also common in other cultures” Preventing. And if we don’t acknowledge that Islamic culture, Islam and [b]Muslim community [b] are major, if not the only, common point of all these murders we will get more of these kinds of murders.

Jul 24, 2009 - 10:15 am 33. Lily:

I believe that there was another “honor killing’ in Canada
that went under the radar a few weeks back. It involved a young woman of Somali origin who was stabbed to death while taking a bath by her brother. No reason was given for the murder. All were sharing the same house with another brother and were recent immigrants to Canada.

It was reported without giving out the names on the evening news, so I was intruged and suspected as much. So later on the week hunted the newspapers and I managed to find a little article in the corner of a Toronto paper giving the name of the victim and her ethnic background. The Media has been covering up these crimes because of Political Correctness, instead of highlighting them in the name of life and liberty!

I suggest that the Government should establish a hotline for these women and girls to call for help before they are murdered by their families, the same as there are for abused children. Their families should then be deported back to their ‘paradise’ post swift.

Jul 24, 2009 - 12:18 pm 34. George Jochnowitz:

Rikki,

Why do you side with those who are guilty of honor murders? Why is the press implicitly supporting honor murders by refusing to call them what they are? Why don’t feminists everywhere in the world react to the occurrence of honor murders?

Jul 24, 2009 - 12:20 pm 35. Ahmad r.:

Ella and others,

If the numbers judge the truth, you may try to be a bit honest to tell us how many Muslims are being killed by the non-Muslim in the past 20 years.

You will be surprised that most of the victims of those innocent killings are Muslims children, women and old. Don’t you care?????

But it doesn’t matter to you and to all of you because they are just muslims who deserved to be killed and be humiliated.

Please do some researches, in North America alone, in the past 3 months, how many parents killed their children who are not Muslims. Again, you will be surprised that domestic violence in Muslim community is just a fraction of the numbers committed by non Muslims.

So, I am telling you (if you still can be honest and be open minded), that Islam and the Quran do not teach honor killing. The culture of Jahiliyah (stupid culture) that permits those criminal and disgusting acts.

I give up, I think I am just talking to Summun, bukmun, umyuun. who never care about the real truth and the consequences in the Day of Judgment.

For the victims, I pray that they will receive mercy from Allah and may their souls be rest in peace.

Jul 24, 2009 - 12:32 pm 36. Lily:

Ahmad:

That is beside the point. I am sure there are parents everywhere who murder their children BUT “honor killing” is an exclusively ethnic/cultural/religious phenomena that happens to target women and girls ONLY and is 99% predomdinant in Islamic cultures.

You say that Islam and the Quran do not teach ‘honor killings’, but they facilitate it by the misogny inherent therein. Women are described as fields to be tilled by the husband and husbands are instructed on how to beat their wives. Women and girls are not considered full human beings but have the status of cattle and chattel to the men in their lives, be it father, brother or husband.

Denying thefacts does not make it untrue.

The Catholic church is another misogynist organization but it does not have the secular powers that it had in the Dark Ages. This happened because of Reformation in Europe but we have yet to see something of this kind happen in Islam, which still does not make any distinction between religion and State. In fact, most Islamic Republics are just theocracies, therefore whatever unjust laws are found in religious doctrine ipso fact becomes the law. The only differences between each country is how harshly or fully the ruling powers want to interpret Sharia Laws.

Jul 24, 2009 - 1:07 pm 37. COL. SEBASTIAN MORAN:

#22
ASIM
You are truly an uneducated, illiterate boob ! You might want to spend an hour fact-finding before spouting your inaccurate brand of drivel. The Catholic church reveres women (perhaps you might have heard of Mary, the mother of Jesus-Google it-you might learn something useful). The slaves (4% of the total slave trading operation) were brought to the American continent by Dutch and British slave traders – not American (again, Google it, m****). It was the U.S. Government that interred Nisei Japanese during WW2. Your ignorance in truly astounding ! Is it a Muslim ignorance, perhaps. At any rate-learn before you babble, fool.
77/88
S.M.

Jul 24, 2009 - 2:25 pm 38. Nancy:

This is abusrd. There is not such thing as “muslim honour killings” anymore than there is “Jewish Money laundering”. But you don’t ever here titles like that in the news or else the Jewish community will call remind us of the haulocaust. Nothing in Islam prohibits murder. NOTHING. It is againt the commandments of God, like it is in Chistianity and Judaism. The problem here is the media is making it seem like it is permissible for Muslims to take someone else life for no reason and then, liek we see in this article, we are suppose to be alarmed that we have such a large muslim population in Canada…Oh NO!!! HIde your children the muslims are coming!!! For God Sake’s people! Wake Up! There are crazy people out there who do crazy things. That is it, that is all.

Jul 24, 2009 - 2:28 pm 39. COL. SEBASTIAN MORAN:

#24
AHMAD R
Perhaps you can explain, logically, the Islamic tenet to convert to Islam willingly or be beheaded. A truly lovely Islamic sentiment. How about the loving quotation from the Qu’ran “There is a Jew behind this rock, come and kill him”. Another lovely Islamic sentiment. It makes me all warm and fuzzy inside. Stay in your own part of the world-we truly neither need nor want you in America.
77/88
S.M.

Jul 24, 2009 - 2:33 pm 40. Ahmad r.:

Lily,

Gee, where did you get those ideas, that Quran is teaching to dehumanize women.

On the contrary, in the Quran, there is a special chapter dedicated to woman (An Nisaa’) and we are thought to respect our women.
That is why we ask them to cover their forbidden part of their body by wearing hijab (such as the one wore by Maria, the mother of Jesus)

And we are taught that the Heaven (Jannah) is under our mother’s feet, meaning we put the highest honor to our women.

Compare this to how you guys treat your women. You commoditize them and ask them to disclose their private parts and stripped them off so that people would enjoy and fulfill their lust. What a poor woman.

Lily, please read the Quran with open heart. Don’t believe in others that told you otherwise. They are ignorant. I think you are intelligent enough to understand the real message of the Holy Quran.

Mark my word, “The truth of Islam will prevail”.
You know that the religion with the fastest growing is Islam, because Islam is the only real religion that has not been manipulated.

Comparing Islam and the rest of the religions and cults is like comparing water that flows and creates life to bubble above it that will be gone eventually.

Being Muslim is like being a fish swimming in the water, quite and peaceful.

And living in denying Islam is like a fish on the dry land. You really think they are full of energy and full of life, but in fact they are dancing to die.

So, please consider studying Islam with open mind and pure heart, you can do it.

Cheers.

Jul 24, 2009 - 2:42 pm 41. ROddy:

Animals, monsters that the only word capable of saying when you kill your own daughters. What kind of animal mentality will cause that action. Any motivation behind that act is the hand of EVIL.

I heard that is the culture, well could be but that culture is really un-culture and needs to be eliminated. More support is need it for these girls, so they can turn to someone for help.

The male-dominated mentality of islam where a woman is a second class citizen, where they are guilty if they are raped, where they get murder if they escape slavery. This so called religion needs to be monitored until they mature and become human. We all were barbarians 500 years, guess what, we matured.

I think the option to eliminated this is integration, all kids should befriend and culturally integrated these muslim kids. And to all those girls that are struggling right now, learn your lesson, your fathers could be criminals, so do not trust your life on them.

And don’t come up with is the the colonial countries than slaved us. BS. Canada , US etc,… were colonies. We grew, so can you.

Just Do something, the more you are involved the least these monsters will have the opportunity to kill.

Jul 24, 2009 - 2:50 pm 42. Ahmad r.:

COL. SEBASTIAN MORAN

There is no compulsion in Islam.

Al Baqarah (2:256):”Let there be no compulsion In religion: truth stands out Clear from error: Whoever rejects evil and believes In Allah has grasped the Most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. and Allah heard and knew all things.

Jul 24, 2009 - 3:25 pm 43. David W. Lincoln:

Lee, nicely done in point #15. You sound familiar with “Inside the Revolution” by Joel Rosenberg, and “The blood of lambs” by Kamal Saleem.

Ahmad R. Tell me about the Pact of Omar. Especially the Jihzya.

You are going down the same road as the Greeks in their pantheon. Anything identifiable is elevated to supernatural status. So, keep that in mind when people equate families taking the law into their hands and killing members, in the name of honour.

Jul 24, 2009 - 3:41 pm 44. Joe:

I never heard of any fish of any kind that cuts people’s head’s off. (Sorry, just had to say it).

Jul 24, 2009 - 3:50 pm 45. Ahmad r.:

You are right Joe, No fish can do such horrible thing to cut the head’s off

Only people with Drones that bomb innocent people remotely. Afghans are bombed with drones and killing machines in daily bases. That is more horrible than cutting head off. They are cutting the whole body and the whole humanity. So, what do you say Joe.

Jul 24, 2009 - 4:03 pm 46. Ahmad r.:

David W. Lincoln

You seem to have been reading a lot. Good for you.
My suggestion for you is to read more than just one book of understanding.

A lot more knowledge and wisdom brought up by Omar.
If you understand the modern social politics you would appreciate what Omar had done.
Try to discus with the Islamic scholars near you, they will explain the wisdom and the genious of Omar.

Jul 24, 2009 - 4:09 pm 47. Omar:

Nancy:

I think you meant “Nothing PERMITS murder” in Islam.

If so, let me just say, this is patently untrue.

First, islamic apostates may be put to death, as well as adulterers, homosexuals, blasphemers and those who criticise or mock islam, Mohammad or the Quran (Mohammad killed several of these personally. Search, Asma Bint Marwan, e.g.). Also, since the men in a muslima’s family are tasked with maintaining their women in islam (Q 4:34), when a muslim woman’s disobedience and refusal to submit reaches the level of open apostasy, she may indeed be killed. Moreover, Mohammad instructed his followers to continue fighting until the entire earth was living in a state of submission to islamic law (See. Q 8:39 and 9:29, e.g.). The prospective “acquisitions” were given a choice: conversion to islam, submission to islamic law and payment of the protection tax as permanent second class citizens, or jihad (upon losing, the Quran gives muslims the right to kill, loot property, and enslave the women and children, with the women becoming “right hand possessions of their conquerers, i.e. sex slaves). Needless to say, muslim men were eager to “spread the good news” of islam far and wide. Unfortunately, only “people of the book” were eligible for this deal. True pagans were offered no such choice and simply existed outside the covenant of the law, where they were subject to whimsical slaughter. In fact, this is PRECISELY the currently legal status of the Bahai in Iran, as this article demonstrates:

“Murder with Impunity”

http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/014/284idyfu.asp

Jul 24, 2009 - 6:12 pm 48. john from cinncinatti:

amadr):”Let there be no compulsion In religion:
so what are the mullahs doing in Iran? its like swimming in water? drowning , this sounds so sweet mukie, but killing your own for what ever you feel is appropriate is showing that your religion has gone over the cliff. you keep your women modest and beat them or kill them if they aren’t, we package our women? not hardly i don’t see them rushing over to buy the latest burlap sack, and i never heard you muslim guys complain when you’re with them.

Jul 24, 2009 - 6:57 pm 49. john from cinncinatti:

i prefer a Spartan woman, not trying to control her just trying to enjoy her presense.

Jul 24, 2009 - 7:07 pm 50. David W. Lincoln:

I know this, Ahmad, Muslims are trying to kill people like Coptic Priest Father Zakarias, because he pokes holes in the weakpoints of “Muslim theology”.

Face it, Islam is simply the magnification of environment to supernatural proportions.

Also, as for the tax that is levied by Muslims on those who are not Muslim, you have just added more fuel to the fire that a Muslim would not have written the Magna Carta
but at best a pale imitation would have been possible.

For Orianna Fallaci, may God rest her soul, had more integrity in the little toe on her left foot, than you have, Ahmed, in your entire body.

Face it, women in the sight of Muslims are at best a threat, and at worst demonic.

For I have also read, “The Haj” by Leon Uris.

Jul 24, 2009 - 9:30 pm 51. David W. Lincoln:

Ahmad, also remember this, people like Walid Shoebat, Bat Yeor, Wafa Sultan, and others are, at best, spat upon by the crowd called, “The Sons of Allah”.

Also, Syed Soharwardy, one of your imams does not believe in freedom of speech. For, why else would he want, even before publication, to see Ezra Levant jailed for the news story of Danish imams cooking up the story about what a Danish newspaper printed. They included cartoons that were not printed. Not exactly a paragon of truth and honesty.

Ask yourself why people are leaving Muslim majority countries, and coming to the house of war? Like it or not, yours is the path of bloodshed because your crowd puts too much emphasis on the geography of the Arabian peninsula. Anything that is different is wrong in your eyes, just like the Dahleks in “Doctor Who”.

There are other matters, like an original copy
of the Bible before, as your crowd charges, it
was corrupted by the Jews and Christians.

Yours is a closed system, and a return to what
was so strong before Avram heeded, “Lech Lecha”.

So, the choice is yours, either listen to without prejudging Father Zakaria Botros, or prepare for the pigskin shroud that awaits covering you as you breath your last.

Jul 24, 2009 - 9:44 pm 52. Lee:

To Asim, the Moron

No disrespect intended. Merely reciprocating ” Treat others as you would like to be treated” I think Jesus was a very wise person and observed his teachings as part of life’s journey even though I am not a christian of any denomination.
Culture is representation of a complete way of life and Islam is a complete way of life for those who follow it. If you do not follow it according to the teaching and the rituals than one is not a Muslim in the true sense.

What can be more factual than living through the atrocious experience for over a quarter of a century and bear witness to the same atrocities to other non-Muslim human beings for over 50 years. At the end of the day, it does not matter what Islam represent or does not represent, it can be debated until the cows come home. The fact remains that action speaks louder than words and all who bear witness will judge you by your actions and not by what you claimed
Whether it is Islam or tribal, it is indefensible what happen to these 4 human beings. I am not an advocate of death penalty. There has been the extremely rare occasions when I think the death penalty is appropriate.

Through out history of mankind there has been atrocities and violent acts committed by all groups or individuals at one time or another. It is still going on today. History is a yardstick by which we measure progress in humanity and the lesson learned is NEVER to repeat the atrocities of the past. If we do not learned from our past mistakes, then we are doomed to repeat ourselves. Most groups that you mentioned have moved forward but Islam is the only group that has not moved forward. Some Islamic countries have consciously turned the clock back in the march to regression.
I happened to be a non-convert positive outcome of a Catholic Missionary school. In my life time, the Catholic Church is pale in comparison to Islam. Historic events of the past can never be an excuse nor justification for atrocities in the 21st century
The term racism is commonly used but most inappropriate.There is only one race called the human race on Planet Earth.

As for the crappy report, you are entitled to your opinion and the writer is entitled to his or her opinion. We should count our blessings we live in Canada where one is allow the freedom to express one’s opinion without consequences even if others disagree with you.

Jul 24, 2009 - 10:11 pm 53. Lily:

Ahmad R.

I know plenty about Islam and the Koran to know that what you are saying is false. Islam is as Islam does. It is very consistent with its teachings and especially with the treatment of women in the Islamic world.

Muslims tend to show Infidels a different version of the Koran, the peaceful and nice sayings of Islam but neglect to mention that these are supereceded by later teachings, like the verse of the sword and countless other verses in the Koran that incite violence and murder towards non believers like ‘the children of monkeys and pigs’.

To be sure, nobody needs to read the Koran to find out about Islam – all you have to do is look around the Islamic world to see the for yourself. By their fruit you shall know them.

I detest these patriarchal religions, made my men for the sole benefit of men. They have brough nothing but pain, wars and suffering, and kept people backward. The only ones who benefit are the Priestly Classes.

And by the way, there is no God and if there was, it is indifferent to human beings no matter how many times a day you pray. And this is the real truth!

Jul 24, 2009 - 10:35 pm 54. David W. Lincoln:

Keep in mind that photos of Hitler and the Grand
Mufti of Jerusalem are being used by diplomats belonging to the State of Israel. It is fitting for a nephew of the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, Abu Amar was one of his aliases, was one of the most corrupt, and bloodthirsty pieces of work known for pieces of work.

As long as the “Sons of Allah” continue to only pay attention to the school of history that says geography is the only school, or face, of history, and that it is permitted to expand geography so that it takes on supernatural qualities; they provide eloquent
testimony to being in harmony with the worst angels of our nature.

Jul 24, 2009 - 10:37 pm 55. Lee:

David W. Lincoln
Greetings!
I am not familiar with Inside the Revolution” by Joel Rosenberg, and “The blood of lambs” by Kamal Saleem.
I will check both out. Thanks

Jul 24, 2009 - 11:12 pm 56. ella:

Ahmed

If you want to tell us that women in Islam had it progressive law once upon a time, you may. It even would be a truth in relation to Arabia. . But nobody nowadays would call Sharia or Qu’ranic law a progressive or even good law for women..

You say that in” the Quran, there is a special chapter dedicated to woman (An Nisaa’) and we are thought to respect our women”
Yes there is.

In an Nisa Sura 4 Ayat 34 says
[quote]“Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.” [/quote]
And Sura 4 Ayat 11 talks about women getting 1/2 of men inheritance
[quote] Allah enjoins you concerning your children: The male shall have the equal of the portion of two females; then if they are more than two females, they shall have two-thirds of what the deceased has left, and if there is one, she shall have the half; and as for his parents, each of them shall have the sixth of what he has left if he has a child, but if he has no child and (only) his two parents inherit him, then his mother shall have the third; but if he has brothers, then his mother shall have the sixth after (the payment of) a bequest he may have bequeathed or a debt; your parents and your children, you know not which of them is the nearer to you in usefulness; this is an ordinance from Allah: Surely Allah is Knowing, Wise.[/quote]
and Sura 2:228 says:. . . Wives have the same rights as the husbands have on them in accordance with the generally known principles. Of course, men are a degree above them in status . . .
But this hadith removes any ambiguity about women in Sura 2:282:
Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri:
[quote]The Prophet said, “Isn’t the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?” The women said, “Yes.” He said, “This is because of the deficiency of a woman’s mind.” (Bukhari)[/quote]
You are saying that you are taught that the Heaven (Jannah) is under our mother’s feet, meaning we put the highest honor to our women. But according to Bulhari and narrated by Sahl ibn Sa’d [quote]“Evil omen was mentioned before the Prophet (PBUH). The Prophet (PBUH) said, “if there is evil omen in anything, it is in the house, the woman and the horse.”[/quote]
Hmm, perhaps you are taught to revere you mothers [b]and[/b] to beat your wives?
You are also saying that we (meaning the west, japan, china and other pieces of Earth) “commoditize women and ask them to disclose their private parts and stipp them off so that people would enjoy and fulfull their lust” .I can assure nobody did commoditize me, ask me to “disclose my private parts” and stripp me off. Nobody could fulfill their lust because how can you fulfill your lust……….. looking? In my view it is that kind of horrible imagination people deprived of sex have. They see woman without hijab and think she is a whore. But even hijab sometimes does not help. Two years ago in Egypt sex starved men started to strip women out of hijabs and niquabs and feel them. That is what the sex starved men do when all the women are in hijab – any woman is a fair game.
******
Finally the last big thing – the peacefullness and ability to choose the religion. There is 1 (one) sura about choice, there are many suras who oppose this one. And the other supersede the one you quote because they are later.
Below is the next sura, just after the one you quoted and another sura from many telling unbelievers “you have to submit or……………..” ones.
002.257
YUSUFALI: Allah is the Protector of those who have faith: from the depths of darkness He will lead them forth into light. Of those who reject faith the patrons are the evil ones: from light they will lead them forth into the depths of darkness. They will be companions of the fire, to dwell therein (For ever).
009.029
YUSUFALI: Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

Jul 25, 2009 - 12:18 am 57. Cat:

There appears to be absolutely no evidence, aside of Muslim truth claims contained in their base texts, that Arabs regularly murdered their daughters before Mohammed’s “revelations.”

There is considerable modern evidence, however, that cultures either controlled by, or imperialistically steeped in, the woman-hating legalisms and atmosphere of Islam do in fact regularly kill their daughters as a socially approved pack activity.

Jul 25, 2009 - 12:50 am 58. equipment rental:

What a facinating article. I’m looking for a marketing expert to help with a project, could you help? Please come visit my site equipment rentals when you got time.

Jul 25, 2009 - 1:55 am 59. Canada: 3 teenage girls and their mother murdered in honor killing « Tea and Politics:

[...] Phyllis Chesler (via Astute Bloggers) is suprised the police has called it an “honor killing”. She also comments on the statistics in Canada: At 2pm EST today, on a CFRA radio press conference, it was announced that the deaths of four Afghan-Canadian girls and women was a “Muslim honor killing.” If so, this is the fifth known honor killing in Canada since 1999 and it brings the death toll to nine victims. I am no statistician but I have friends who are and they tell me that this is a very high number given that the Muslim population in Canada is no more than 750,000. [...]

Jul 25, 2009 - 6:20 am 60. Ahmad r.:

Hello everyone:

This is my final response, the chapter from the Quran, 98 Al Bayiinah (The Clear Evidence).
Allah will judge among us who is right and who is wrong you in the Day of Judgment. So god luck.

Quran: 98. Al Bayiinah (The clear evidence)

1. Those who reject (Truth), among the people of the Book and among the Polytheists, were not going to depart (from their ways) until there should come to them Clear Evidence,-
2. An apostle from Allah, rehearsing scriptures kept pure and holy:
3. Wherein are laws (or decrees) right and straight.
4. Nor did the people of the Book make schisms, until after there came to them Clear Evidence.
5. And They have been commanded no more than this: to worship Allah, offering Him sincere devotion, being true (in faith); to establish regular prayer; and to practise regular charity; and that is the Religion right and straight.
6. Those who reject (Truth), among the people of the Book and among the Polytheists, will be In Hell-Fire, to dwell therein (for aye). They are the worst of creatures.
7. Those who have Faith and do righteous deeds,- They are the best of creatures.
8. Their reward is with Allah. Gardens of Eternity, beneath which rivers flow; They will dwell therein for ever; Allah well pleased with them, and They with him: all This for such As fear their Lord and Cherisher.

Jul 25, 2009 - 8:21 am 61. Joe Bison:

#40-Why are you only mentioning certain
passages in the Koran and not talking
about Sharia Law which is Islamic Law?

When you study or observe Sharia you will
know the roots of these killings.

#36-Take a close look at what Sharia
actually is and then read the Catechisms
of the Catholic Church that were written
by the present Pope. This will show you
how wrong you are to make the comparison
you made. The only point you can make
is the non-ordination of woman as priests.

Study the way women are actually dealt
with in Sharia-Their value to a man-
Punishments for transgressions-
Marriage age for women in Sharia societies-
Divorce-Polygamy etc

#22-This is laughable-here is a guy
commenting on the Catholic Church from
a faith that believes Mary is one of the
Holy Trinity-such is his understanding.
Also slavery-Saudis only banned official
slavery in 1962 and Muslims continue
to engage in slavery to this day.
Only pressure from the West ended the
official practice.

Jul 25, 2009 - 8:45 am 62. Joe Bison:

Correction-They believe that Christians
regard Mary as one of the Holy Trinity-

The sentence in question did not
spell this out clearly.

Jul 25, 2009 - 8:49 am 63. Omar:

“This is NOT Islam!”

” . . . Some experts are now beginning to describe such attacks as more akin to ritualized killings or even political assassinations than typical murders: powerful symbolic acts intended to terrify and control as well as to convey a message to the larger community.

So, what message, if any, was Mr. Shafii attempting to convey? What, exactly, did Mohammad Shafii know that remained so terribly opaque to his victims? Here’s my best guess: Mohammad knew that the “Islamic character” of a home, a neighborhood, a country is exactly co-extensive with the violence that can (and will) be employed against women to maintain it. He knew, as the Ayatollahs and Sheiks in S.A. and Iran and Afghanistan know, that the heart of Islam is Violence in pursuit of Submission. Where that violence abates, the Islamic character weakens, where it’s employed ruthlessly, the Islamic character crystallizes most starkly. And now that the spot light is squarely focused on another Islamic honor killing, we can look forward to the next chapter in a now familiar narrative: the ubiquitous cries of “This is not Islam!” Such assertions will go largely unchallenged, of course, despite the wealth of evidence to the contrary. But not all of the Wholesale Deniers are being disingenuous in their denials. Some actually believe it. So, what explains the horrendous disparity between the highly idealized conception of Islam held by many in the west and the distressing reality of life in countries and families actually governed by Islamic law? . . . ”

http://yellowhousedraw.blogspot.com/2009/07/this-is-not-islam.html

Jul 25, 2009 - 9:21 am 64. David W. Lincoln:

Ahmad r, the Soviet Union had a wonderful sounding constitution. That was irrelevant to the inhumanity it dished out upon those it thought were deviants, or actually saw things different.

You can justify yourself all you want, but you have a long way to go to expunge the initial impressions of Muslims being those who perpetuate the grossest forms of man’s inhumanity to man. You get mad when it happens to you, but you do not lift a finger, much less raise your voice, as an advocate for those on the receiving end of man’s inhumanity to man (especially when they did not deserve it).

May you find out now what life is like when Iblis is calling the shots, and as long as you persist in being so stubborn, that is what eternity will be like for you.

Jul 25, 2009 - 9:34 am 65. ROddy:

Ahmad r

My final response,go preach death and murder somewhere else

Jul 25, 2009 - 10:34 am 66. Dave II:

Ahmad r.-
No one doubts your sincerity, but frankly, it is entirely POSSIBLE to be sincerely wrong.

“The clear evidence” comes NOT from the pages of a book, but from the actions and deeds of the followers of that book.

Yes, EVERY religion, has “bad apples” and the nut-jobs who twist the words and beliefs for their own despicable actions.

The actions and deeds of Muslims WORLDWIDE is the most troubling thing about Islam though. This latest perverse crime in Canada is just the latest of such “honor killings” and just another event in the DAILY roll call of a violent and deadly act attributed to a follower of Mohammed’s writings.

WHY IS THAT??? I have my own opinions but they hardly matter.

The proof is in the pudding (or more exactly…what is “cooked up” in the name of Allah.)

“He who fights that Islam should be superior fights in Allah’s cause”
Muhammad, prophet of Islam

More on this event and pictures from:
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com

Jul 25, 2009 - 11:30 am 67. Ahmad r.:

David W. Lincoln

Hi David,

I like your insistence in putting up your points from all the books you have read. That’s a god attitude.

To make it complete, please throw away your prejudice about Quran. Read it carefully and with neutral and open mind.

I believe you will see abundant important messages.
In the end, why Allah sent this book to the last Messenger if not for the betterment of our life.

You can find it in the net how this Book (Quran) really is a miracle in itself and it is so important to understand and to follow.

To ROddy, please don’t be so cruel, nobody preaches death and murder except the war monger, the ex president who lied to the world in order to destroy a country (Iraq), killed hundred of thousand innocent people, displaced millions of them, and yet still think that he will go to paradise. What the Hell.

Jul 25, 2009 - 11:55 am 68. zeba:

Good read:

http://muslimsvoiceofamerica.com/blog/2009/07/honor-killing-and-islam/

Jul 25, 2009 - 1:14 pm 69. David W. Lincoln:

Ahmad R, would you do the courtesy of looking at
what Arianism is. Then compare it to the Hadith
and the Quran. See any similarities?

Or, is the examining of anything other than the Hadith and the Quran verboten?

Jul 25, 2009 - 1:38 pm 70. David W. Lincoln:

Ahmad R, just to let you know, I have this as my
computer wallpaper: Reply of the Zaporozhian Cossacks to Sultan Mehmed IV of the Ottoman Empire by Ilya Repin.

Take a look at what was said about those Cossacks by Gogol: “All that Gogol wrote about them is true! A holy people! No one in the world held so deeply freedom, equality, and fraternity.”

Given the reaction to Fitna by Wildeers, or The stoning of Soraya M, by your crowd, Ahmad R, the most rational explanation is that your
crowd is left in the dust by the Cossacks in the matters of freedom, equality and fraternity.

Also this, every Christian that saw life ended
by your crowd experiences life as it was originally designed to be, rather than the perpetual and celestial bordello that you purport paradise to be. For there is more to life than the satisfaction of your lusts.

Face it, Ahmad, it is with very good cause that your “religion” is viewed with suspicion.

Jul 25, 2009 - 2:21 pm 71. J Iskiw:

As a country of multiculturalism, I believe we have now gone over board. Any religion or culture that condones the murder of young women because they want to live their lives is digusting. I am growing tired of Canada’s open attitude to these religions that make women subservient and belittle them. Canada is a western society if you are not in agreement with the way that our country allows women their freedoms! STAY OUT!

Jul 25, 2009 - 2:48 pm 72. gracie:

You can judge a people/religion by how they act. This being said, I do NOT need to read the Koran, I can see what it is by how the followers act. it’s disgusting.

Jul 25, 2009 - 2:56 pm 73. Ahmad r.:

David,

I know that Islam is viewed with suspicion, examples are from DanielPipes.org (the net of your favorite) and all the writings that you read. Blind man is always suspicious to anything he heard because he doesn’t know for sure what was going on. He’s just guessing and full of conjectures.

And you seem to be too negative about Islam. That’s not a healthy intellectual to show. Quran and Islam can only be understood with clean heart that free from arrogance and prejudice.

All your words are full of baseless accusations, lack of intelligent arguments. If you read about logical fallacies, you failed on all the 43 fallacy accounts because you don’t bother to understand the real source of the very subject that you are attacking, that is the Quran.

How can you compare Arianism with Quran?????
Now I know that you still need to learn a lot more about the Quran. You are off by far man. Sorry.

Be careful man, don’t die before you become Muslim as this is the only religion with the authentic book free from manipulation. Islam god is Allah the Almighty and NOT the one that was decided by a group of priest in Nicea with the voting in 325 AD.

Write something about this in Dp.org, and I will give my response.

Jul 25, 2009 - 3:48 pm 74. David W. Lincoln:

Ahmad R, how is it that no Muslim has yet produced a bible that was not distorted by the Jews and Christians?

As long as your crowd gives no room for God to be God, then the result will be life not as it was designed to be. For, in all honesty, even though there are similarities between the liturgy according to St. John Chrysostom and the Friday prayers, there is no place in the Christian faith tradition for the repeating that takes place before the Friday sermon. People are capable of seeing where the All holy Trinity are coming from, and agreeing with where they are coming from.

As long as the Tao is viewed as fallen, or the Rta, or the philosophy of the Logos, or the Ma’at, or the Torah, or Jesus Christ according to those who keep what was passed down to them from the Apostle’s; then how can
there be equality? For all of these that I listed above are incomplete predecessors before the fullness of time saw the conception
of Jeshua ‘nzaret, but none the less, they play a positive role in how people ought to live before the events of the Garden of Eden.

Also, keep this in mind. It is one of the hymns to the Theotokos that is sung during Pascha: Do not lament me, oh Mother, seeing me
in the tomb. The son conceived in your womb without seed, for I shall arise, and be glorified with eternal glory as God, I shall exalt all who magnify you, in faith and in love.

For Yeshua ‘nzaret is more than a prophet, he
is the fulfillment of the Jewish prophecies as
to whom will be the redeemer of the world.

Jul 25, 2009 - 5:42 pm 75. Dave II:

Gracie-

My point exactly! ‘Nuff said.

Jul 25, 2009 - 6:12 pm 76. Ahmad r.:

Ella,
Maybe you need to study how to read. Because every intelligent person knows that everything has context. Understand the context and then try to get the gist and the messages. You owe me to read the Quran once more and understand the context.

Also to Lily, do not take lessons from what people do. Allah the Almighty has sent down the book, the Holy Quran to be read and followed, not what people do and say.

They might be misunderstood and ignorant. Yes, there are many people they claimed they are Muslims but don’t understand the Quran, and people like you are taking the lessons from those “ignorance” who claimed to be Muslims.

Remember everybody, every one of us will be judged by Allah in the Day of Judgment individually. You cannot blame others. Use your brain and your heart.

I am sorry for those people who claim to be Muslims but behaving like animal. I am a Muslim and I follow the Quran. I am a professional and I don’t kill my kids. People like me and they feel safe besides me.

There are 2 billion Muslims who are following Quran, if the Quran is really teaching us to kill, I don’t think you dare to say or do anything. You will be swamped and eliminated in no time.

We, Muslims are very obedience to our lord Allah.
It is because Quran does not ask us to kill, therefore you guys are still alive until today.

You are lucky you know. So please don’t make the 2 billion people to believe that the Quran is asking us to kill you, because if that’s the case then there will be a massacre.
But don’t worry, Quran is teaching peace, do good deeds, give charity, pray 5 times a day, and believe only One god, that is Allah rahmaan rahiim.

I pray that Allah will open up your heart and bring you back to Islam as Islam is the only pure religion free from manipulation and corruption.

Jul 25, 2009 - 7:24 pm 77. Nancy:

Omar-

You got me confused for a second because your name suggests you are a muslim but your words prove otherwise. Also, your lack of knowledge about “murder” as a sin in Islam suggests you know nothing about hte Quran and Sunnah. Furthermore, you, introducing the Bahai peoples as Muslims makes me certain to think you truly no nothing about Islam.

God (Allah in Arabic) created mankind to worship him and him alone, the almighty sustainer of the heaven’s and earth adn of mankind. He has sent down prophets; Noah, Abraham, Jacob, JOhn,Moses and Jesus (jsut to name a few) to remind people of their purpose on this planet and guide them back to God. God gave Moses the Torah, Jesus the bible, and Muhammed revealed the final message, the completion of God’s religion by giving him the Quran. Today, like it has been since the creation of Adam, people continue to mock God’s prophets and his holy words. It is He who will judge us for our actions on the day of Judgement and it is He who created us and knows what rules and guidance we need to succeed in this world and in hereafter.

Jul 25, 2009 - 7:57 pm 78. Nancy:

Something for misinformed non-Muslims. Peace out
http://www.e-bacaan.com/artikeli_purpose.htm

Jul 25, 2009 - 8:02 pm 79. Dave II:

Ahmad r-
“..So please don’t make the 2 billion people to believe that the Quran is asking us to kill you, because if that’s the case then there will be a massacre.”

LOL! That’s a good one, Ahmad!

Islam, with its INUMERABLE extremist Imams and violent terrorist groups scattered throughout the Muslim world and beyond, is doing the job itself quite well of encouraging the killing non-muslims…EVERYDAY! It certainly doesn’t need US to teel it to kill…

Did you hear me?

EVERY SINGLE DAY that goes by, another attack, random killing, beheading, stoning, explosion, or “honor” killing is perpetrated against a non-muslim somewhere in the world.

I, for one have seen your religion in action…it is the religion of death!

Jul 25, 2009 - 11:30 pm 80. ella:

Ahmad r

You are asking me to read Quran because “every intelligent person knows that everything has a context” In that case you did not give me an intelligent advice because understanding the context means reading hadiths and reading the history. Reading Muslim and Bukhari. I wonder, did you read them? Because they are giving you the context. Don’t they?

But then if I read the Qu’ran you will say “you don’t understand it because you don’t know the context.”
If I say I know the context you would say – “the only true language which shows subtlety of Qu’ran is Arabic. You should read it in Arabic to understand all.”
If I say that I read it in Arabic you would say” to understand the Qu’ran and everything you need to be a Muslim.”
And then I become a Muslim and will see a religion which is not free from manipulation and corruption you would say : “The return way is closed. That’s apostasy.”

And that is a truth about opening the heart and pure religion.

2 billions muslims can swamp everybody? You are joking. There are 1.4 billion Chinese alone. You think you could swamp them? Dream on.

Nancy

Do you think that summarising Islamic creation story has anything to do with discussion? You can not think for yourself ?

Jul 25, 2009 - 11:43 pm 81. Omar:

Nancy:

I notice you have not taken the time to refute any of my specific points – and how you could conclude that I’m equating Bahais with Muslims is incomprehensible. The Bahais are not even considered “people of the book.” Therefore, they are not entitled to even the crumbs of tolerance alotted to dhimmis under an Islamic regime. As a result, they have no or very limited legal status under Iranian law. This is why they are subject to MURDER WITH IMPUNITY by the government or anyone else, really, as clearly explained in the article I posted earlier. They simply exist outside the dhimmi covenant and islamic law does not protect them. The Iranian gov. uses fudge words like “not a divine religion” when describing the Bahai, but they are simply employing and enforcing the traditional islamic reasoning behind the law of dhimmis by excluding them:

http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/014/284idyfu.asp

Hope that clarifies things for you.

Jul 26, 2009 - 5:23 am 82. Ahmad r.:

OK David, Ella, and others.

I have said what I have to say about Islam, and now, you’re on you own.
Good luck and see you in the Day of Judgment.

Below is the advice from the Quran:

Al Kafirun (People who cover up the Truth)

1. Say: O you that reject Faith!
2. I worship not which you worship,
3. Nor will you worship that which I worship.
4. And I will not worship that which you have been wont to worship,
5. Nor will you worship that which I worship.
6. To you be your way, and to me mine.

Jul 26, 2009 - 9:36 am 83. sallie:

I DO NOT UNDERSTAND!!! a religion that would force itself on a person or kill them. We judge a religion by how the people act.

Honor killings. killing innocents, rebuffing “infidels” should not be tolerated by any society.

Muslims appear to be people who do not know how to live in peace with the universe.. I DO NOT NEED to read your “book”, and if how you act “is following” this “book”, more the pity to you and who ever wrote it and fooled you into following it. and lastly who are you to decide who is worthy and not worthy. Muslims have a long way to go to be at peace even with their OWN being, their soul.

I wish they would prove me wrong in their actions. Our world does not need people that hate each other and every being on this earth. Peace out.

Jul 26, 2009 - 10:56 am 84. Nancy:

Ahmad R.

LA Ilaha Il Allah, wahdahu la shakrika lak, lahu almulk, walhu alhamd wahuwa 3la kooli shayin qadir. What can you do. Laqd balghta ya akhi. That is all. May Allah accept your da’3wa

Jul 26, 2009 - 11:31 am 85. Omar:

This one’s for you, Nancy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4FpTvp0tgs

Jul 26, 2009 - 11:35 am 86. middleagedpatriot:

Gina #19, I believe Carol meant that we should be “drilling” for oil domestically so we can stop buying oil from those funding radicalism. She didn’t mean “drilling” Muslims.

Ahmed R and Nancy, by your comments you have demonsrated knowlege and faith in Allah and His Prophet. Please tell me where Isa (the Quaranic name for Jesus) is today? Is he in Heaven or Hell? This is important because it tells me how to interpret the Quaran. If he is
In Heaven than he has shown us the way to Heaven and we should follow his teachings, if he is in Hell than how can any of us know how to get to Heaven?

Thank you, MAP

Jul 26, 2009 - 11:36 am 87. Ahmad r.:

middleagedpatriot

Isa (or Jesus) and other prophets are definitely in the heaven. They taught his people to worship the One God (Allah), but you guys have idolized Jesus and decided through a voting in Nicaea in 325 AD to be the son of god, and better yet to be the god himself.

So, Jesus worship Allah therefore he goes to heaven, and you guys worship him (Jesus), therefore you go to hell.

In the Day of Judgment Jesus will be asked about your worshiping him, and this is what he will say (listen to his answer upon questioned by Allah):

5:116. and Behold! Allah will say: “O Jesus the son of Mary! Did you say unto people, worship me and My mother As gods In derogation of Allah.?” He will say: “Glory to Thee! never could I say what I had no right (to say). had I said such a thing, Thou wouldst indeed have known it. You know what is In My heart, I know not what is In Thine. for You know In full all that is hidden.

You will be surprise that Jesus actually is a Muslim by definition, because he surrendered to Allah’s will and worship Allah alone.

So, Jesus would say to you guys.. Bye bye boys and girls, and go to hell, forever………

Jul 26, 2009 - 1:11 pm 88. David W. Lincoln:

Ahmad r, who destroyed the sculptures at Bamyan?
Your crowd did. Anything that disagrees with you is wrong, which is why you do not give text as to what agrees with you, because you would be giving credence to what does not agree with you, and is therefore wrong.

Therefore I take it that you will never be examining the Nicene creed. The Nicene Creed is what you reject, and seeing that it is about Yeshua ‘nzaret and how people are to relate to him, as long as you reject it, you belong to Iblis.

For you belong to the crowd who contacts Coptic Priest Zakaria Boutros, to see where he
is wrong. When your crowd does not succeed, that goes a long way in explaining why there is a bigger price on his head than the price on Osama bin Laden’s head.

The last Arab who had more courage than a woman, and was assasinated for it, was Anwar
Sadat. Before him was Wasfi Tal.

They wound up dead because of your crowd. Just as Lenin, Stalin, Hitler, Mao, and Pol Pot are accountable for the dead attributable to them, so too are the “Sons of Allah” which
is your crowd. When the final verdict is pronounced, we will see who endures torment for all eternity, and the rest will go from strength to strength in building up the virtues (and not just enjoying a perpetual celestial bordello).

Jul 26, 2009 - 2:04 pm 89. rightwink:

Why do people refer to these as ‘Honor Killings’??? It’s murder, plain and simple, no matter what was the underlying motive. Don’t fall into the trap of bending over backwards to avoid ‘offending’ murderers.

Calling it anything else tends to cover up the fact that the victims were murdered in cold blood.

Jul 26, 2009 - 5:11 pm 90. David W. Lincoln:

Furthermore Ahmad, how in blazes can the treatment dished out by your crowd on Irshad Manji and Ayaan Hirsi Ali be regarded as something honourable?

According to you, I am wrong because I do not follow you in lock step. But, you are wrong because you transgress the eternal standard.

Now who is in deeper trouble?

Jul 26, 2009 - 8:26 pm 91. middleagedpatriot:

Ahmed R.,

Then to Hell I go. I decided long ago to cast my lot with the Jewish people and the God they call YAHWEH. No man of honor can turn back from what he has pledged to do nor can he make his heart go where it is not willing to go. May the God of Abraham have mercy on whom He will have mercy and let
love be born in this heart of stone that beats within my chest. Peace.

Jul 26, 2009 - 8:47 pm 92. Nancy:

Middleagedpariot. FYI-The God of Abraham is the God of Muhammed and the God of Jesus because THERE IS ONLY ONE GOD.

Jul 27, 2009 - 9:23 am 93. Nancy:

Omar: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sg6NhnYbqUQ
PS: I watched your link and all I have to say is, I DONT CARE WHAT SOME IGONORANT MAN WHO IS IN THE DARK ABOUT ISLAM HAS TO SAY…Just add’s one more stupid man to the list

Jul 27, 2009 - 9:30 am 94. David W. Lincoln:

Nancy, The God of Abraham is the God of Jacob and he has two partners, God the holy Spirit and God the Son.

I suggest you take a look at the Nicene Creed.

For the Old Testament has types of Christ found on its pages.

Jul 27, 2009 - 10:07 am 95. Ruvy:

Guys, can we separate the issue of “honor killings” – killing women to preserve the “honor” of the men who like to sleep around – from the issues of messianic Redemption?

As a believer and as a Torah-observant Jew, my beliefs on messianic Redemption are similar to (but not the same) as those Ahmad R. – but as a believing Jew, I only have disgust for this “custom” of murdering off women to suppress their basic human rights and to cover the peccadilloes of the Moslem men-folk.

And I would note that Ms. Chesler’s article is about this disgusting “custom”. Is this really the forum to discuss the messianic Redemption and how it will come about? I do not think so.

Jul 27, 2009 - 10:32 am 96. Omar:

Bearing in mind Ruvy’s admonishment, let me just say, I believe in G-d whole-heartedly, Nancy; Sadly, considering the content and implications of his so-called “revelation,” it’s quite obvious that Mohammad was NOT his prophet.

Jul 27, 2009 - 11:07 am 97. Rahel:

Ahmad r’s posts remind me of two words that I learned several years ago (after 9/11, to be exact):

Dawah and taqiyyah. Click on the words for their definitions.

(Source: Encyclopedia of the Middle East)

Jul 27, 2009 - 11:58 am 98. Paul -Indiana:

#92. Jesus is God. Your statement is incorrect.

Jul 27, 2009 - 12:42 pm 99. Nancy:

GOD_ONE GOD People!!!! Omar, I suggest you shoudl re-name yourself. Omar doesn’t suit you. Peace out everyone. I am out of here. Wokring on a PHD and dont have time to respond to ignorant comments all day.

Jul 27, 2009 - 2:17 pm 100. Anna G.:

#92 Jesus was not a God. He was said to be the “son” of God. Remember the whole virgin birth deal???Christmas??? Mary the mother, God the father, the sheep in the fields, angels etcetcetc…

Jul 27, 2009 - 4:06 pm 101. ROddy:

I don’t think is a religious issue any more, is an ISLAM issue, if you want to call that a religion. Seriously, I gonna start pressing to pass laws that will prosecute not only the family involved in the killings, but the religious leaders or counselors that put that shit in their minds. ( if can be proved of course). Any one out there that is preaching hatred and violations of Human Rights needs to be prosecuted.

Jul 27, 2009 - 4:36 pm 102. sallie:

I totally agree. what kind of people call a teaching “religion” if it encourages you to mistreat others?

87…Ahmad r.: is a troll Do not feed this guy with comments!!

Jul 27, 2009 - 7:03 pm 103. Photomaniacal » Blog Archive » Dishonorable Muslim Mass Murder in Canada:

[...] example, the Canadian Kingston police did not describe the cold-blooded murder of three innocent Afghan-Muslim girls (Zainab, Sahar, and [...]

Jul 28, 2009 - 6:22 am 104. Omar:

Nancy:

It’s always good to get the other side of the story, don’t you think? This one is available on line:

http://prophetofdoom.net/Prophet_of_Doom_Islams_Terrorist_Dogma_in_Muhammads_Own_Words.Islam

P.S. I diligently read your bacaan link. Perhaps you would consider reading 5-10 pages of this?

Jul 28, 2009 - 6:29 am 105. Ahmad r.:

To everybody who is sincerely looking for the truth, believing in Allah and the Day of Judgment

Al Quran
Al Baqarah

1. A.L.M.
2. This is the Book; In it is guidance sure, without doubt, to those who fear Allah.
3. who believe In the Unseen, are steadfast In prayer, and spend out of what we have provided for them;
4. and who believe In the Revelation sent to thee, and sent before Thy time, and (in their hearts) have the assurance of the Hereafter.
5. They are on (true) guidance, from their Lord, and it is these who will prosper.
6. As to those who reject Faith, it is the same to them whether Thou warn them or do not warn them; They will not believe.
7. Allah hath set a seal on their hearts and on their hearing, and on their eyes is a veil; great is the penalty They (incur).
8. of the people there are some who say: “We believe In Allah and the Last Day;” but They do not (really) believe.
9. Fain would They deceive Allah and those who believe, but They only deceive themselves, and realise (it) not!
10. In their hearts is a disease; and Allah has increased their disease: and grievous is the penalty They (incur), because They are false (to themselves).
11. when it is said to them: “Make not mischief on the earth,” They say: “Why, we only Want to make peace!”
12. of a surety, They are the ones who make mischief, but They realise (it) not.
13. when it is said to them: “Believe As the others believe:” They say: “Shall we believe As the fools believe?” Nay, of a surety They are the fools, but They do not know.
14. when They meet those who believe, They say: “We believe;” but when They are alone with their evil ones, They say: “We are really with you: we (were) only jesting.”
15. Allah will throw back their mockery on them, and give them rope In their trespasses; so They will wander like blind ones (to and fro).
16. these are They who have bartered guidance for error: but their traffic is profitless, and They have lost true direction,
17. their similitude is that of a man who kindled a fire; when it lighted all around him, Allah took away their light and left them In utter darkness. so They could not see.
18. Deaf, dumb, and blind, They will not return (to the path).
19. or (another similitude) is that of a rain-laden cloud from the sky: In it are zones of darkness, and thunder and lightning: They press their fingers In their ears to keep out the stunning thunder-clap, the while They are In terror of death. but Allah is ever round the rejecters of Faith!
20. the lightning all but snatches away their sight; every time the light (Helps) them, They walk therein, and when the darkness grows on them, They stand still. and if Allah willed, He could take away their faculty of hearing and seeing; for Allah hath power over all things.
21. O ye people! Adore your Guardian-Lord, who created you and those who came before you, that ye may have the chance to learn righteousness;
22. who has made the earth your couch, and the heavens your canopy; and sent down rain from the heavens; and brought forth therewith Fruits for your sustenance; then set not up rivals unto Allah when ye know (the truth).
23. and if ye are In doubt As to what we have revealed from time to time to Our servant, then produce a Sura like thereunto; and call your witnesses or helpers (If there are any) besides Allah, if your (doubts) are true.
24. but if ye cannot- and of a surety ye cannot- then fear the Fire whose fuel is men and stones,- which is prepared for those who reject Faith.
25. but give glad tidings to those who believe and work righteousness, that their portion is Gardens, beneath which rivers flow. every time They are fed with Fruits therefrom, They say: “Why, This is what we were fed with before,” for They are given things In similitude; and They have therein companions pure (and holy); and They abide therein (for ever).

Jul 31, 2009 - 3:17 am 106. Omar:

Hello, Ahmed r. Here’s a succinct comparison between islam and a few other religions. Considering the very reasonable conclusions drawn by the author, maybe the seal is on your own heart:

http://www.faithfreedom.org/2009/08/04/after-god-what-is-allah-of-islam-the-god-of-abraham/

Aug 4, 2009 - 7:47 pm 107. Zahir:

105. Ahmad r.:

To everybody who is sincerely looking for the truth, believing in Allah and the Day of Judgment

Al Quran
Al Baqarah

1. A.L.M.
Asalamu Alaykom

2. This is the Book; In it is guidance sure, without doubt, to those who fear Allah.

This book is just a book. It has no supernatural power and the instructions it contains misguides people who wish to live in peace and prosperity. Any Allah that wants us to fear it is a demon.

3. who believe In the Unseen, are steadfast In prayer, and spend out of what we have provided for them;

They are just superstitious people who have no conception of the broader realities of life and the universe in which they exist.

4. and who believe In the Revelation sent to thee, and sent before Thy time, and (in their hearts) have the assurance of the

Hereafter.

There is no Revelation. Revelation presupposes that the universe is deterministic and that we have no free will. I have free will. My apostasy is my own choice and was not caused by the Allah entity.

5. They are on (true) guidance, from their Lord, and it is these who will prosper.

The great philosopher Jesus had a great insight when he declared that The rotten tree produces the rotten fruit, and that by its fruit we shall know it. The fruit of Islam is rotten and if we presuppose that this “Lord” is a real entity then it leads its followers
astray and is not a “Lord” but a “Shaitan”. The followers of Islam do not prosper. They dwell in the darkness of ignorance.

6. As to those who reject Faith, it is the same to them whether Thou warn them or do not warn them; They will not believe.

That’s right, threaten us. When I think of the quarter century of my life wasted in “Faith” I am sickened. We do not need your warning to be superstitious like you. You want to wallow in the ignorance of superstition, fine, but keep it where it belongs, inside your own head.

7. Allah hath set a seal on their hearts and on their hearing, and on their eyes is a veil; great is the penalty They (incur).

Oh, the Book of the Heifer. My favorite. So it is this Allah that has made me reject his superstitious nonsense is it. If you cannot see the circular logic in this then you are doomed to never be able to use the greatest gift life has given you.

8. of the people there are some who say: “We believe In Allah and the Last Day;” but They do not (really) believe.

And what of us who believe that the Allah entity exists only between the ears of believers. Of course the earth will end one day in the far distant future and maybe the universe will wind down and a last day will come, but so what? Why should we waste the time of the one life we actually know about in superstitious bowing and scrapeing, when we can be using that time for the experience and joy of life.

9. Fain would They deceive Allah and those who believe, but They only deceive themselves, and realise (it) not!

If you spend your life worrying that Allah might be looking into your head and as a result trying to control what happens inside it, you will become insane. That is what you do, is it not? Stop that thought materializing in your head, because Allah might not like it.

10. In their hearts is a disease; and Allah has increased their disease: and grievous is the penalty They (incur), because They

are false (to themselves).

If there were any reality to this statement, it would demonstrate that what you call Allah is really Shaitan. On the one hand you say he is the creator and is merciful and on the other you say he fills us with disease. What a crappy excuse for a deity.

11. when it is said to them: “Make not mischief on the earth,” They say: “Why, we only Want to make peace!”

One of the mandatory sensible bits to convinve people that it is a good book. Of course the Islamic version of peace involves everyone bowing and scraping at the same time each day and following the Qur’anic admonitions to perform ablutions in the same standardized way, instead of learning and thinking for themselves.

12. of a surety, They are the ones who make mischief, but They realise (it) not.

All sorts of people make mischief of one sort or another. It is a part of the human condition. That is what the five times daily bowing, scrpaing and praising is for, to make sure that people are not doing normal human micheif making.

13. when it is said to them: “Believe As the others believe:” They say: “Shall we believe As the fools believe?” Nay, of a

surety They are the fools, but They do not know.

That would be me, right. I am a fool because I do not believe the same superstitious clap trap that you do. But wait, it was you Allah who made me a fool, because it put the blinders on my eyes.

14. when They meet those who believe, They say: “We believe;” but when They are alone with their evil ones, They say: “We are

really with you: we (were) only jesting.”

Protect yourself, pretend that the evil one is in me so that you can reject my personal opinion.

15. Allah will throw back their mockery on them, and give them rope In their trespasses; so They will wander like blind ones

(to and fro).

More threats. What is this Allah guy going to do to me for not believing he is real? The blind are those who follow it. The sighted are those who have cast off the blinders and see the way clearly. Is it your Allah guy, or is it guys like you who will use that rope?

16. these are They who have bartered guidance for error: but their traffic is profitless, and They have lost true direction,

And of course the true direction is the mindless acceptance this “book” specifies.

17. their similitude is that of a man who kindled a fire; when it lighted all around him, Allah took away their light and left

them In utter darkness. so They could not see.

Cruel bastard entity this Allah. It sounds like a mean spirited trickster. If it was a real Allah it would give light unto all of its creation.

18. Deaf, dumb, and blind, They will not return (to the path).

Those of us who hear and see the light have found a better path.

19. or (another similitude) is that of a rain-laden cloud from the sky: In it are zones of darkness, and thunder and lightning:

They press their fingers In their ears to keep out the stunning thunder-clap, the while They are In terror of death. but Allah

is ever round the rejecters of Faith!

Funny thing is, I am not afraid of thunder an lightning. Since I gave up superstition I have found out what it is and understanding makes me not afraid.

20. the lightning all but snatches away their sight; every time the light (Helps) them, They walk therein, and when the

darkness grows on them, They stand still. and if Allah willed, He could take away their faculty of hearing and seeing; for

Allah hath power over all things.

And this is another thing I do not like about the Mohammedan Allah conception. It wills things and thus micro manages everything. This means that the Mohammedan conception of the universe is that it is deterministic and thus we have no free will. In my own superstitious mind I like to believe that I am created with free will.

21. O ye people! Adore your Guardian-Lord, who created you and those who came before you, that ye may have the chance to learn

righteousness;

I adore the life I find myself in and the earth I find myself on. I do not like the Mohammedan conception of righteousness. I have managed to utilize my own free will to determine what righteouness really is.

22. who has made the earth your couch, and the heavens your canopy; and sent down rain from the heavens; and brought forth

therewith Fruits for your sustenance; then set not up rivals unto Allah when ye know (the truth).

The one that created the conditions that these things may come about is not the imaginary Mohammedan Allah. I know the truth because I have looked, examined and worked it out for myself.

23. and if ye are In doubt As to what we have revealed from time to time to Our servant, then produce a Sura like thereunto;

and call your witnesses or helpers (If there are any) besides Allah, if your (doubts) are true.

You servant? would this be referring to the epileptic camel trader who imagined he had conversations with Jibreel? “Revealed from time to time” is codewords for “make up as he went along”.

24. but if ye cannot- and of a surety ye cannot- then fear the Fire whose fuel is men and stones,- which is prepared for those

who reject Faith.

The ever present threat of Hellfire. The stick to the heavens carrot. I utterly reject your conception of faith and substitute my ow that does not contain the concept of the fiery pit. The fiery pit is only real for those who believe in it.

25. but give glad tidings to those who believe and work righteousness, that their portion is Gardens, beneath which rivers

flow. every time They are fed with Fruits therefrom, They say: “Why, This is what we were fed with before,” for They are given

things In similitude; and They have therein companions pure (and holy); and They abide therein (for ever).

The carrot to hells stick. As the hell is not real, then neither is the heaven. The Garden is here and now. It is how we behave towards each other, how well we use the life and intelligence we have that matters.

Aug 13, 2009 - 6:32 pm 108. Muslims Don’t Murder Apostates–And 9/11 Had Nothing To Do With Islam – If You Believe That, I Have A Bridge To Sell « Political Vel Craft:

[...] [...]

Aug 18, 2009 - 9:27 pm 109. Gurwinder Sidhu:

Very disturbing indeed. Since we’re on the subject of “honour killings” I can honestly say Canada needs to do a better job in delivering justice! I’m furious that the case of Jaswinder Kaur Sidhu, even though widely known and many years old is still considered “open and ongoing”! Need I say more?! http://www.myspace.com/justiceforjassi

Please sign the petition.

Sep 14, 2009 - 12:37 am 110. Getting Serious About Honor Violence in the UK « The Conservative Papers:

[...] and the father’s first wife were discovered dead in a submerged car. The girls’ Westernization has been suggested as a [...]

Oct 7, 2009 - 11:43 pm

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