Fathima Rifqa Bary, the Muslim teenager who converted to Christianity at least four years ago but who only recently ran away, has been taken away from the two good Samaritan Christian pastors who took her in and is now in state custody in Florida. On Friday, a judge will decide whether her case should be heard in Florida or in Ohio. Her parents have “lawyered” up, her father Mohamed Bary, a jeweler, insists that he never threatened to kill her, that he wants her to come home. The mainstream media is getting nervous. What if they believe what Rifqa says and they end up sued? Or worse?
After all, the Columbus police have challenged the girl’s claim that she is in danger. Sgt Jerry Cupp, chief of the Columbus police missing person’s bureau, has said that “Mohamed Bary comes across to me as a loving, caring, worried father about the whereabouts and the health of his daughter.”
So much for Ohio. But allow me to point out that for weeks, Mohammed Shafi and his second wife, Rona Amir Mohammed, wept, mourned, and generally carried on about the deaths of their three daughters and of Mohammed’s first wife–until the police arrested both Mohammed and Rona, along with one of their sons, for having been behind these heinous, heartless, murders.
Now, Florida Imam Hatim Hamidullah, with the Islamic Society of Central Florida, has informed us that the Muslim faith does not call for a father to hurt his child, should she convert to another religion.
“It is not Islam for the father to bring harm upon his blood daughter or any other human being because of anger,” he said. “Our position is to exhaust all measures that would bring peace and harmony back to the family,” Hamidullah said. “Being angry and threatening the life of someone is not one of those methods.”
Someone has got to explain the technique of taqiyya (the high Islamic Art of disinformation) to the Ohio police, to the judiciary in both Ohio and Florida, and to the mainstream media.
A Muslim is a human being who, like all other human beings, will lie to save his life. In addition, a Muslim might also lie to save his…honor. No Muslim is going to tell the world that “Oh yes, by the way, some Muslims (either due to their non-religious ethno-national-cultural traditions, their misinterpretation of the Quran–or to their very clear understanding of what the Quran says about apostates), might actually kill another Muslim. Or one of their own women. Or, for that matter, infidels in general.”
Thus, the attacks on 9/11 were really not Muslim or even Saudi “operations.” True, most of the hijackers were Arab Muslims from Saudi Arabia but that is entirely beside the point. These attacks were, rather, undertaken by a) Muslims who hijacked an otherwise “peaceful” religion; b) in fact, the attacks were an “anti-Islamic” operation undertaken specifically to give “peaceful” Islam a bad name; c) everyone knows that 9/11 was an inside CIA and Zionist plot meant to justify America’s attack on al-Qaeda/Afghanistan/Iraq.
This is taqiyya in action.
Therefore, when an honor killing of a daughter, wife, or female cousin occurs in the West, Muslim leaders almost immediately insist that the crime has absolutely nothing to do with Islam or with the Quran; that the murderer is just one more domestically violent man, just like the violent men who exist everywhere, even in the West.
This is not true.
According to my study, published in Middle East Quarterly, it is true: Most Muslims do not kill their female family members; but some Muslims do. Or rather: So far, the honor killings that we know about in the West, including in North America, have been committed mainly by Muslims. Muslim girls and women are killed when their actions are perceived as “too western,” “too independent,” “too assimilated.” Honor murders are undertaken by the entire family whose ability to totally control their women has failed and therefore, whose honor has been compromised and must be avenged.
Only blood will do.
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78 Comments
1. Ruvy:I’m very impressed with the way you have followed this story. When I knew a young woman who converted from Islam to Christianity in Minnesota years ago, I did not know the real danger she had placed herself in, and why she was so secretive.
Many of the cases you mention seem to indicate the influence of the Wahhabi in one way or another. Sunni Islam may be less strict than the Wahhabi heretics on all of these issues, but this is an assumption I would rather not have tested. Too many people might die if I were wrong.
Aug 18, 2009 - 2:30 pm 2. George Jochnowitz:Children know what’s good for them. They should have the right to flee their families. Our society recognizes the value of families, but doesn’t know when this recognition should give way to more important criteria, like saftey and life.
Aug 18, 2009 - 2:43 pm 3. David W. Lincoln:Phyllis, it is not a case of ignorance, but a case of willfulness.
As long as those people who do not want to know continue their charade, they are betraying whatever oath they took to uphold and defend the law.
As for the aftermath of demon possession which took place, whether it happened to Mahomet is another story, the poisoned aftermath is this: Those with blood on their hands in the name of Allah simply want to be the intermediary between each person and the almighty.
However, they do not want to countenance that the ultimate arbiter, works through different
areas of life to commune with his creation.
Therefore, I accuse the Sons of Allah of idolatry, and frankly the only good things about them are what they stole from others.
Aug 18, 2009 - 2:46 pm 4. Pajamas Media » Muslims Don’t Murder Apostates, and 9/11 Had Nothing to Do With Islam:[...] Read the rest of the story here. [...]
Aug 18, 2009 - 2:53 pm 5. Rebecca Witonsky:I am outraged that the U.S. courts are thinking of sending this girl back to her radical Muslim parents to her death. Do the courts not understand that radical Muslims are required to murder their children who convert to other faiths? Do they not understand that under virtually every traditionally accepted interpretation of Islam, a Muslim convert to another faith is considered an apostate who must be murdered?
Aug 18, 2009 - 3:21 pm 6. Lisa:She should not be returned home as I believe her life would be in danger but I’m getting bad vibes from the article. The pastor had his arm tightly around her it says. I hope there was a wife and children at home but still.. I think the safest place for her at the moment is state custody.
Aug 18, 2009 - 3:40 pm 7. Gabrielle:Here in Australia, I”ve read the testaments of 10 Muslim converts to CHristianity. In EVERY case, these folk are being constantly monstered by their erstwhile co-religionists. Descriptions of abuse ranging from trash and dead animals being thrown in their yards right up to death threats — and who knows? possibly even murders — fill their pitiful stories. One person has had to move house five times because of serious death threats. These are adult people. Teenagers like Rifqa are in great peril from avenging ‘honour’ infested parents. I hope she gets the protection our civil society claims to offer to its citizens.
Aug 18, 2009 - 3:43 pm 8. mary ross:Oh my gosh! You are so right on. After having lived in Saudi Arabia and been exposed to the culture and the enforcement of Shari’a in the birthplace of Islam, I could not agree more. In fact, my book, Veiled Honor,which addresses the link between Arab honor, domestic violence,(including honor killings)and terrorism will be published in September. So few Westerners seem to recognize how different our culture is from many of the Muslim cultures in the Middle East and Africa. We tend to think others have the same values and reactions to life as we do. Not true. We hope that reason will prevail. Not true. And we try to use diplomacy with people whose history was determined by the sword. Keep up the good work. I wish I had found your web site long ago!!
Aug 18, 2009 - 3:50 pm 9. dogs:There are two undeniable facts Rifqas attorney needs to hammer into the judges head.
1.All four schools of Islamic jurisprudence are unanimous: THE PUNISHMENT FOR APOSTACY FROM ISLAM IS DEATH.
2.RIFQA BARY IS AN APOSTATE OF ISLAM.
One would hope that this case itself becomes a referendum on Islamic Apostacy Law. If the judge returns this girl to parental custody, let her, at a minimum, do so in full knowledge of these two grim facts.
Aug 18, 2009 - 4:09 pm 10. Laura:“Fathima Rifqa Bary apparently converted to Christianity more than four years ago. If so, it is impossible for the Pastors, Beverly and Blake Lorenz to have “kidnapped” or “influenced” her. According to one media report”
Aug 18, 2009 - 4:15 pm 11. paul:………………………………
Leave it to the leftist media to invert reality and demonize the Christian couple protecting this poor girl as kidnappers who forced her into Christianity while treating her crazy muslim parents who would murder her for being an apostate, as the real victims. This kind of political correctness in turning a blind eye to the true nature of islam is endangering innocent lives.
Excellent article! Keep getting the word out!!
Aug 18, 2009 - 4:35 pm 12. Phyllis Chesler shares woman’s view « Gitardood’s Weblog:It wasn’t that long ago a young Toronto girl was murdered by her father and brother for far less of a crime than conversion to another faith…
[...] Phyllis Chesler shares woman’s view http://pajamasmedia.com/phyllischesler/2009/08/18/muslims-dont-murder-apostates-911-had-nothing-to-d... [...]
Aug 18, 2009 - 4:58 pm 13. Julie:Dear Ms. Chesler,
Thank you for keeping the issue of “honor killings” alive. I lived in St. Louis when Palestina “Tina” Isa was stabbed to death by her father and followed the trial through the St. Louis Post-Dispatch. Many St. Louisans were shocked that this “honor killing” could take place in our hometown.
The St. Louis Post-Dispatch is now a major apologist for Islam. I wonder how it would cover an honor killing today.
Aug 18, 2009 - 4:59 pm 14. BettyBlue:The problem is, Lisa, that the state isn’t going to keep her in custody—they’ll doubtless send her right back to the parents she fled in the first place.
The state makes an awful parent.
Aug 18, 2009 - 5:06 pm 15. BettyBlue:As for the family—-well, no, they don’t sound like moderate, or wordly Moslems, at all. Pamela has the story over at Atlas Shrugs; apparently they’re affiliated with the Noor Islamic Center, which has been a hotbed of Islamic radicalism.
One poster over at Atlas Shrugs was wondering why this girl is being treated so differently from other runaways; I’m wondering the same thing. I mean, for God’s sake, there are homeless, runaway kids all over the US, living by prostitution, theft or whatever, and nobody—nobody bothers to hunt them down, or seems that concerned with getting them back together with their families! Heck, out here in California, thousands of foster kids simply “disappear”, and the reaction from the authorities is, “Tsk, tsk, tsk, have to form a task force to study that. Some day.”
So why is this particular girl being hunted down and shoved into state custody so efficeintly, and obsessively?
Why are the police so convinced that her father is “loving”? and why are they so disbelieving, despite the girl’s own testimony that she’s afraid of her family? Remember the way the government came down on that one, fundamentalist Christian cult, just a short while ago, just on the suspicion that there might be abuse going on at their compound? Yet, here, they’re, apparently, just taking the family’s word for that she’s been brainwashed (while ignoring the girl, and demonizing the Christian pastor.)
Something just isn’t right here. . .
Aug 18, 2009 - 5:17 pm 16. Linda Rivera:A great injustice was perpetrated against this young girl in inviting Imam Hatim Hamidullah of the Islamic Society of Central Florida to testify at her custody hearing. Taqiyya – Islamic deception is part of Islam.
And in court, what could be more important than the TRUTH?
If the court really cared about protecting Rifqa Bary from tremendous suffering and murder, instead of inviting the Imam, the court would have invited an expert on the Koran, with a copy of the Koran showing what the Koran teaches.
It is tragic, that in a non-Muslim country, pleasing Islam and the global Muslim community is regarded as more important than protecting the lives of innocents.
If this terrified girl is forcibly returned to her family and is murdered, her blood will be on the hands of the court and all those responsible for her forced return, as was the case with Palestina Isa who ended up a murder victim thanks to our dhimmi, merciless pro-Islam Authorities.
Rifqa needs to immediately file for emancipation. G-D help her!
Aug 18, 2009 - 5:19 pm 17. BettyBlue:Julie, I’m afraid a paper like that either wouldn’t cover the topic at all, or it would do what other media outlets have done; try to paint the girl as a neurotic runaway, who was brainwashed into leaving her loving Moslem family by an eeeeeevil Christian, and, we need to reunify the family, donchaknow, cuz that’s just so important, donchaknow (though apparently not so important when it comes to numberless other teenage runaways—why is this girl’s case being treated so differently?)
Aug 18, 2009 - 5:20 pm 18. Ellen Sheeley:Phyllis, you know you are preaching to the choir where I’m concerned.
Of course, this young girl is at risk. We’ve seen this pattern before. It’s quite familiar to anyone who’s worked with these crimes and lived in cultures where they are fairly common.
Aug 18, 2009 - 5:26 pm 19. Linda Rivera:Regarding the 9/11 terrorist murderers and the DECEIVER apologists who declare these were Muslims who had hijacked a peaceful religion, the cruel attacks were celebrated by Muslims around the world
Peace partners, Palestinian Authority Muslims CELEBRATE Murder of 3,000 Innocents 9/11
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrM0dAFsZ8k
ISRAELINSIDER.COM
Thousands of Palestin
ians again celebrate attacks, videotape suppressed
By Ellis Shuman and israelinsider staff September 16, 2001
On Friday and Saturday, thousands of Palestinians again paraded through cities in the West Bank and Gaza, celebrating the attacks on the United States.
“Jubilant Palestinians took to the streets of refugee camps of Lebanon and the West Bank, waving Palestinian flags and distributing sweets to celebrate the attacks.
“Palestinian policemen celebrating and shooting into the air, in addition to civilians dancing,”
…Arab students at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem held a party Tuesday night celebrating the attacks and giving out candy to participants.
http://www.israelinsider.com/channels/diplomacy/articles/dip_0087.htm
World Trade Center Horrors: The Jumpers
Aug 18, 2009 - 5:29 pm 20. BL:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y56IZVnC8RU&feature=related
Great Point, Julie. I have friends in St. Louis who I’ve queried about the “Tina” incident and even though it was 10 years ago, they still remember it but acknowledged that the media there rarely revisits it and wonder what the Muslim community there has done to prevent further occurrences. There was an incident of a wife being thrown out of a window just last year that bore “honor killing” characteristics that has literally fallen off the face of the media.
Aug 18, 2009 - 5:51 pm 21. BL:As always, Dr. Chesler, a well written, carefully framed piece. With the fear mongering in the mainstream media, you’ve walked a very tight line, but I’m wondering, why Fathima Rifqa Bary decided to flee her home at 17 rather than waiting till she was 18 and an adult. Could it be that the threats and violence had been notched up to the point where she didn’t think she would see adulthood?
Anyone familiar with your brilliant study on Honor Killlings and domestic violence, as I am, feels the hair on the back of their neck rising. This is a perfect pre-honor killing/domestic violence precursor that could build on your work as a guide to preventing honor killings and save this girl’s life.
One last point, there is a huge difference between being tolerant of a religion and ignorant of that religion. As you and your esteemed colleagues, Ibn Warriq, Nonie Darwish, Andrew Bostom, Daniel Pipes, Bat Y’eor to name a few, have in numerous reasoned and academic articles and books have made painfully clear: what this child did is concerned punishable by death! I only hope the judge and social authorities that will decide her fate keep this in mind!
Aug 18, 2009 - 6:05 pm 22. homero:Phyllis Chesler, thank you for another insightful article. I sincerely hope the young woman is not forced to return to her parents. Even if she is not under threat (which I think she is) she should not be forced to return.
Keep writing!
Aug 18, 2009 - 6:17 pm 23. dave:I’ll be glad when Muslims come to the defense of the daughter who wants to convert to Christianity. Sadly, that doesn’t happen. Instead, the biggest concern of Muslims is that non-Muslims not drawing any negative conclusions about Islam. Sorry. Too late for that.
Aug 18, 2009 - 7:12 pm 24. DavidN:This is one of those situations where I fear the solution is going to be almost certainly bad. The difficulty is that while we can all tell one another about what Islam says about apostacy, but all that really matters is what the parents say *now* that they will do, and what others say they believe about their intentions. If the cops in Ohio believe the family (and some apparently do) then we’ve got to face the fact that the girl will probably be returned to the family, and at the least subjected to pressure to reconvert to Islam, for the honor of the family, etc.
The difficulty is that in our system, it’s not considered reasonable to take examples of other families who’ve dealt with cases like this violently, and then ascribe the same possible behavior to this family. I’ll agree that these things may very well happen, and I’m not even sure I’d be opposed to changing the rules…but those *are* the rules, as they stand.
Aug 18, 2009 - 8:03 pm 25. Tel-Chai Nation:An Islamic smear campaign against Rifqa Bary…
Atlas Shrugs (via Jihad Watch) reports that the MSM and the parents of Rifqa Bary, as well as the Islamic Society of Central Florida, are conducting a libel campaign against Rifqa Bary, the teenage girl from a Muslim family who converted to Christian…..
Aug 18, 2009 - 8:09 pm 26. BettyBlue:Linda, yeah, I know—aren’t the Palestinians a swell bunch of people? Let’s send them some more foreign aid!
/Sarc.—but, sadly, we’re sending them the aid.
Aug 18, 2009 - 8:29 pm 27. Ellen K:I would suggest the judge read up on the tragic honor killings of two Lewisville,Texas high school girls by their “loving” father who escaped with impunity to Egypt. Sadly, early conditioning to accept certain primitive practices are difficult to overcome. And our nation, being one that doesn’t really understand this type of madness, puts women and children in danger.
Aug 18, 2009 - 8:35 pm 28. Muslims Don’t Murder Apostates–And 9/11 Had Nothing To Do With Islam – If You Believe That, I Have A Bridge To Sell « Political Vel Craft:[...] Chesler Chronicles » Muslims Don’t Murder Apostates–And 9/11 Had Nothing To Do With Islam. Possibly related posts: (automatically generated)Keeping Islam on the DLThe most hated woman in [...]
Aug 18, 2009 - 9:27 pm 29. Omar:As Ms. Geller says, the only religion with a propaganda wing.
Aug 18, 2009 - 9:58 pm 30. Persia:Linda, thank you for your Videos but there is another which shows a Woman telling us, in the Name of Palestinians, that they were Sorry for America/-ns: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOQW5EyVq0E&feature=related
It is maybe Offtopic but I think we have to make a whole Study about Taqyyiah, this Liefare (Art of telling Lies), which affects the Islamic World/Communities, Islam.
Certainly Offtopic: there is the Need to examine in Depth the Islamic “Concept” that “Islam is the Last Religion, and the Best one”. I mean, “the Last is the Best”, could be a reasonable Conclusion, but it doesn’t fit to Islam, according to its History and Reality. The Last Knowledge built upon a more Ancient Knowledge, in the Meaning of Progression, Evolution, could certainly be considered as “better than the previous Knowledge” (I’m for Instance thinking about Heliocentric Theory, compared to previous Earthcentric one). But in the Case of Islam, it is like a Student who got his Diplome not by Merits, but by Violence: this means, that the Student (Islam or its Leader) did not build on a more Ancient Knowledge, developing it, adding to it Something better, Something new. He copied Things from more Ancient Knowledges (he could do so by his Travelling for Business Purposes), then pasted All of them together, plus he added some Rules which could grant himself to be the most Powerful Man of the Region (and more), including the Clauses “who dissents with me will be killed” and “who does not spontaneously submit to me will be subjugated, eventually killed but anyway looted (in Order to grant me Richness)”, and eventually applyed the Scientific Logic which says “the Last one is the Best one”. In this Case, though, I guess that there is the (really Logical) Need to add an “a” to the Noun “Best”: hopefully it is clear, Where to add this “a” and which is the resulting Meaning [Raping, Killing, Looting, Submitting cannot be else than Somenthing best-ial. And Whoever denies that Islam started by these Kind of Actions, and therefore is based on them, they represent its "Philosophy", well, this One is practicing Taqyyiah, either towards him/herself, or towards Others].
Thank you Mrs Chesler for your important and percious Engagement and Job, and for your Wisedom and Compassion. Kindest Regards to you and to All your Readers.
Aug 19, 2009 - 1:20 am 31. Jamie W.:I’m with Lisa — suspicious of the Florida pastors as well as the girl’s parents. Perhaps the best possible outcome would be if she were placed in foster care back in Ohio, return to her old school and church, and have only carefully-supervised visitation with her family on-site at a social services office. Sadly, I don’t see that being the outcome; the state seems predisposed to disbelieve the girl.
Aug 19, 2009 - 3:13 am 32. "gunner":if the florida courts and “social services” force this girl to return to her “loving” family i predict she will be the victim of a “tragic accident” within a year.
Aug 19, 2009 - 4:14 am 33. Peter the Bubblehead:16. Linda Rivera wrote:
If this terrified girl is forcibly returned to her family and is murdered, her blood will be on the hands of the court and all those responsible for her forced return, as was the case with Palestina Isa who ended up a murder victim thanks to our dhimmi, merciless pro-Islam Authorities.
Peter writes: In all likelyhood, with al the negative publicity this case has drummed up in the news, nothing will happen to this girl in the US. But rest assured shortly after she is returned to her family (God forbid), she and at leat one of her parents (likely her father) and other male relatives will ‘take a trip back to the old country’ and this poor girl will never be heard from again.
Aug 19, 2009 - 4:16 am 34. JFM:Sunni Islam may be less strict than the Wahhabi heretics on all of these issues, but this is an assumption I would rather not have tested
Actually Wahabism is a subvariant oF Hanbalism and this a subvariant of Sunnism. And Wahabists aren’(t conisidered heretics by other Sunnis.
Aug 19, 2009 - 4:18 am 35. Persia:Another Offtopic which I consider very important (psychologically) to be considered is the Feeling of Pride of Islamic People (which affects forced or spontaneous Converts). I would say the Islamic World sees Humanity as if it was an Animal World, where Islamic People are the well known pure Race Arabic Horses – it seems, the only Animals treated with Respect in the Arabic/Islamic World, due to their Beauty and Qualities -, and the Others are … Donkeys. Arabic Horses, as I said are “untouchable”, this means, they are allowed to behave almost the Way they like: they are precious Animals, respected, rewarded as Valuable Beings – at the Opposite of other Animals -. When an Islamic Person or a Convert says “I’m an Arab” (because eventually Islam considers that every Islamic Person is Arab, too), this sounds like a Statement of “Purity, Superiority, Authority” (over Others). Did you ever noticed that? I think that’s absolutely Right, to approach Islam both psychologically and historically: there is a (unjustified) Sense of Pride in Islamic People, which (whose Insanity) can be undercovered/unveiled just through Scientific Analysis/Method.
I think Islamic People selves can understand What I mean: Ramadan is coming (?) and they will be invited to read and meditate on the Qouran. Well, I think they definitely should do so, by reading and meditating on (focusing on) Sourah Number 9, the last one “revealed” to their “Prophet”: is this Something which could ever confirm that Islam is a “Religion of Peace”, or does this Sourah states that Islam is “violent Politics” (Nothing, as Human, to feel Proud of)?
Aug 19, 2009 - 5:21 am 36. Tina Trent:Well, now that there is media attention, child protection has an obligation to investigate the situation, an obligation that we might like to see applied across the board, of course, but just because it isn’t, we can’t possibly want it to be withdrawn from this case, can we? And Lisa makes a good point. The people harboring the young woman should want that type of oversight to protect themselves, as well. But what on earth is the Islamic Society doing, being invited to a custody hearing? Did the parents request it, or did the court? Hopefully the former. One has to hope the judge would not do such a thing.
As the honor-killings-versus-domestic-violence discussion continues, I want to insist, again, that one type of violence is not worse than the other. The “Tina” killing is terrible, BL, but why should the media revisit it ten years later, when they do not revisit the hundreds of other tragic killings that occurred in St. Louis since that time? Misrepresenting a current murder case in the interest of political correctness is a different matter.
In a strictly legal sense, in our country, isn’t it unjust to say that slaughtering your family to defend your honor as defined by Islam is worse than slaughtering your family because you personally feel you have a right to dominate and possess them — a sentiment that underlies much of what is called domestic abuse? Unfortunately, with the existence of hate laws, there is the temptation to say that the former is a hate crime and the latter just a crime, and then less than that, a domestic crime, which routinely garner lesser sentences. This is precisely why hate crime laws represent a step away from justice, not towards it, a step away from Western law and towards the very honor-based systems that we are trying to oppose here.
You can name and investigate honor crime in order to identify the source and scope of the problem without also insisting that it be prosecuted as a worse crime than “garden-variety” familial murder. To continually insist that honor killing is something entirely alien from other patterns of domination and abuse that occur within non-Muslim families eventually smacks of diminishing the latter, however. Yes, there are cultures where honor killing is honorable, not illegal, and some people are transplanting that culture here. To oppose this, we must make them conform to Western values of equality of worth and free will, where killing anyone is a crime, not create a hierarchy distinguishing between different types of murder victims, right?
Honor killing is also domestic violence, as we define it. It says a great deal about how little victims of domestic violence are valued and protected that anyone would feel the need to deny that connection in order to raise appropriate alarms about it.
Aug 19, 2009 - 5:54 am 37. SZN:Some corrections: Taqiyya is something that is only practiced by the Shi’ite sect of Islam and not mainstream (or even Wahhabi). It only refers to keeping silent about one’s faith to prevent persecution. (i.e. the way some Christians hid their faith from Romans by developing codes of communication, etc)
You are right that honor killings and the like are often “Muslim-on-Muslim” crimes, so why not ask the persecuted Muslims how they would like this problem to be solved instead of assuming that they would like to live as “non-religious” Muslims. If you were to say to the Catholics who were abused by their priests that it’s their fault for following a religion that doesn’t allow their priests to get married, most Catholics would be offended. It is not a real solution to the problem to point blame at the victim. Ask them what kind of help they need, and then help provide it.
Aug 19, 2009 - 6:19 am 38. Enver Masud:9/11 was an inside job — see http://www.twf.org/911.html
Aug 19, 2009 - 7:11 am 39. blotto:“If this terrified girl is forcibly returned to her family and is murdered, her blood will be on the hands of the court and all those responsible for her forced return…”
Linda #16: Unfortunately we cannot hold our courts responsible for their actions. Judges act with impunity. And since when did we as a nation hold anyone accountable for their misdeeds? Judges routinely let child rapists, pedophiles and other vermon off the hook for their crimes.
But this is what you get with PC. We have become so sensitive to Islam that we as Americans allow Muslims to practice their Sharia law in place of our laws.
This beautiful young girl will not see her next birthday if she is returned to her parents.
I’m sure moho, shadow, DS and others are getting their talking points from CAP or Kos in order to defend the girl being returned to her parents. This should be interesting.
Aug 19, 2009 - 7:58 am 40. SZN:why was my comment deleted?
Aug 19, 2009 - 8:08 am 41. Dave ll:SZN- “You are right that honor killings and the like are often “Muslim-on-Muslim” crimes, so why not ask the persecuted Muslims how they would like this problem to be solved…”
Ha! Good one! I’ll tell you why…
..because they DEAD!!!
NOBODY is “assuming” (as in “ass-out-of-you-and-me!) that these “persecuted” (lovely phrase that) Muslims wish to live as “non-religious” Muslims. Many, in fact, nearly ALL are saying EXACTLY THAT, if not in word, by deed, but then…
WHAT DOES IT MATTER ANYWAY???????????
Does their “non-verbal” expression of how they wish to live JUSTIFY some PHYSICAL HARM or DEATH coming their way because of that????
And equating the sexual abuse or molestations by Catholic priests to the ACTUAL REAL THREAT OF DEATH from your Muslim family members (father or brothers) is just ridiculous and beyond even debating.
Fathima Rifqa Bary is telling us in no uncertain terms (nobody is assuming!) she DOES NOT want to go home!
And EVERYONE should be listening to her!
Aug 19, 2009 - 9:06 am 42. Carlos Caliente:Allah akbar !!! The child belongs to Allah and must be tortured and punished to protect her from the infidels. So it is written, so it will be done. Allah akbar !!!
Aug 19, 2009 - 9:26 am 43. Ahmad Shah Masud:Elmer Masud: 9/11 was an inside job
Change your name, loser.
Aug 19, 2009 - 9:26 am 44. Linda Rivera:#30 Hello Persia!
I watched the video. Hanan Ashrawi is an expert at turning things around. Forever claiming victimization. Claiming we were exploiting the Pal celebrations of the murder of 3,000 Americans to malign the ‘Palestinians’. In other words, we are the bad ones!
Israel always reports that whenever a Muslim suicide bomber succeeds in murdering innocent Jewish men, women, children and babies, Palestinian Authority Muslims celebrate in the streets by the thousands, dancing and passing out sweets. They are the murderous ‘peace’ partners, religiously dedicated to Jewish genocide, the US/EU immorally demand Israel give a TERROR State to.
Aug 19, 2009 - 10:30 am 45. myth buster:I don’t see why she would have any problem filing for emancipation. If she were emancipated, the courts would have no jurisdiction to compel her to return to her parents.
Aug 19, 2009 - 11:02 am 46. joeblough:It is simply not possible to overstate the importance of the Fathima Rifqa Bary matter.
This must be made as public as possible as quickly as possible.
This girl is still alive and her mind still relatively intact. There is a life to be saved here.
Besides which, her circumstances are absolutely paradigmatic.
If you have even a bit of compassion, please forward reports on this matter to your mailing list and contact the relevant authorities to demand protection for this innocent.
By turning the light of public knowledge on this matter we will prepare a path to freedom for thousands.
By protecting this one we will rescue thousands.
Aug 19, 2009 - 11:04 am 47. BettyBlue:No, 9/11 was not an inside job: http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/1227842.html
Aug 19, 2009 - 11:05 am 48. myth buster:Okay, I just looked up the rules concerning emancipation. A petition for emancipation must be reviewed by a judge and typically requires financial independence, so that’s a non-starter in this case. If a judge would okay the emancipation, it wouldn’t be necessary because they wouldn’t be inclined to return her to her parents anyway. However, there are two means of automatic emancipation. One is to get married, and the other is to get her GED and enlist in the armed forces. Does anybody love this girl enough to rescue her by marrying her?
Aug 19, 2009 - 11:11 am 49. BettyBlue:Now, now, Linda, without all those bazillions in aid, the Palestinians couldn’t do wonderful things, like the stuff detailed here! http://www.pmw.org.il/
Aug 19, 2009 - 11:12 am 50. BettyBlue:(Of course, #48 was /sarc.)
Mythbuster, if this were an ordinary runaway case, there would be little problem in her becoming emancipated—assuming the authorities took any notice of it at all.
In this particular case, however, the courts, and law enforcement, seem unusually concerned about rounding this kid up, making sure she’s under lock and key and shipping her back to her “loving” dad as soon as possible. As I said earlier, there’s something odd about all this. I don’t know that the emancipation strategy has even been considered, though in most cases like this, it would be.
Aug 19, 2009 - 11:15 am 51. Moho:This must also mean that Christians murder apostates, since I also have one example, the murder of George Tiller. There are certainly more Christians in this country, so I’m a bit more afraid of Christian apostate murder. But thanks for sharing this; your obsession with proving that Muslims are evil is really changing the world for the better.
Aug 19, 2009 - 12:59 pm 52. David W. Lincoln:Mary Ross, it’s not just reason (or a lack thereof) that can be pointed to man’s inhumanity
to man. For there are explanations which go beyond willful blindness.
“Islam” is the new kid on the block (even though Martin Luther came after “mahomet”, there are still elements of what was handed down by Yeshua ‘nzaret to his Apostles, even in the most anti-hierarchical bible believing Christian.
What people do not accept, or do not understand, is that those who follow in the footsteps of what stormed out of the Arabian Peninsula roughly 1400 years ago, they are working with a flawed model.
Allah is transcendent, and not at all immanent. But, and here is the distinction between Jew and Muslim, more emphasis is placed by the Muslim, than by the Jew, on geography shaping character.
Put another way, there is a one-ness to life, but life isn’t only about one-ness. We operate in distinct areas, such as government,
church, the marketplace, life at home, the arts, the school, and anywhere else people interact. But, those called, “The Sons of Allah” conclude that is wrong.
Well, what is the track record of the “Sons of
Allah” since they over-ran Constantinople in 1453? What have they accomplished. Lets compare that to the Western world, especially
when it comes to those who paid more than lip service to the “I and Thou” relationship that Martin Buber would write about in the 20th century.
Where is the Doestoevsky of the Muslim world?
Is there anyone amongst the Sons of Allah, who
would write, in a different way, that the notion of world peace at the price of brutalizing a little child, especially when that child doesn’t know why the brutality is being dished out, that price is too high.
What about the Magna Carta, where the appetite
for power of the King was held in check, where
amongst the Sons of Allah can we see something
more than a pale reflection.
As long as the Sons of Allah take the cafeteria approach to the Bible, they are simply justifying their idolatry. For there is One God, and everyone is made in his image,
according to the likeness of the Holy Trinity.
So, where do the Sons of Allah get off that there is a divide at the beginning, even before the child is conceived.
Everyone starts the same, regardless of how distinctions can be applied. Therefore, anything that a Muslim would have to say about
Aug 19, 2009 - 1:17 pm 53. Ruvy:being pro-life is only partially true, because
they apply a distinction which frankly isn’t there.
Actually Wahabism is a subvariant oF Hanbalism and this a subvariant of Sunnism. And Wahabists aren’t considered heretics by other Sunnis.
I won’t engage in argument with you, JFM. I am no scholar of Islam and do not pretend to be. I’ll let you argue instead with this article by by Shaykh Jamil Effendi al-Zahawi al-Hanbali al-Makki on why Wahhabis are heretics. From the article
Today, with Wahhabi goons controlling Makka and Medina, the intelligent Sunni no longer declares this to be heresy. It might cost him his life. But in 1917, when ibn Saud was nothing but garbage in Nejd, it was possible.
I quote this from the article also – prophecy from the hand of Mohammed:
I bid you a pleasant evening.
Aug 19, 2009 - 1:19 pm 54. Jaladhi:Great article Ms. Chesler. Please keep the topic alive as there are only few others who dare touch this subject with a ten foot pole and MSM is not one of them!!!
You should dare the MSM, the likes of New York Times, Washington Post etc., to publish your article. But we know the answer of these gutless, intellectually challenged, hypocritic journalists who are simply dishonoring their profession by continuing to tell lies in the guise of “political correctness”. Shame on them!!!
Aug 19, 2009 - 1:37 pm 55. Larsen E. Whipsnade:51. Moho:”This must also mean that Christians murder apostates, since I also have one example, the murder of George Tiller . . .”
George Tiller wasn’t an apostate. He was a grown man, and an active abortionist. He was murdered by another grown man of unknown faith, possibly a Christian. But there is nothing in the Christian faith that commands Christians to go out and kill people for any reason. Tiller had been shot twice before, also for being an abortionist, not for being an apostate. He was actually a church member.
Aug 19, 2009 - 1:46 pm 56. Omar:So the Wahabi commit heresy by giving Allah a body?
Good to know.
They also believe in death for apostates, death for those who insult Mohammad, islam or the Quran; wife beating; gender apartied, genocidal jew hatred, perpetual war to impose islamic law on everyone on the planet, dissembling to protect and advance the islamic cause, and the taking of war booty and slaves (specifically female sex slaves ala Sudan) in the course of that eternal war.
Too bad none of those are heresies.
Aug 19, 2009 - 2:13 pm 57. aclay1:I finally get it – taqiyya explains Obama’s campaign and press conferences perfectly.
Aug 19, 2009 - 2:36 pm 58. Will:Moho
Aug 19, 2009 - 2:42 pm 59. Peter the Bubblehead:Again, you are practicing moral equivalence and an extreme ignorance of Islamic jurisprudence in regards to apostasy. In fact, with one glaring exception, most religions as well as those who practice atheism seldom if rarely prosecuted and murdered for leaving behind their beliefs. In fact, those who left their beliefs are free to attack their former religion without harm or threats of death. Islam on the other hand prohibits apostasy ever since it’s founding and the sentence meted out is often death. Did you ever notice that only few apostates ever revealed their name and show their faces in public? I used to go to Faith Freedom International boards and I must say that a lot of Islamic apologists have no tolerance for people leaving the muslim faith.
45. myth buster wrote:
I don’t see why she would have any problem filing for emancipation. If she were emancipated, the courts would have no jurisdiction to compel her to return to her parents.
Peter writes: It may not be that simple. The court isn’t going to just emancipate a teenager without certain assurances. They are going to need to have proof she would be able to support herself, have a place to live, and remain safe. The courts will not emancipate a teenager who they believe is only going to wind up on the streets, stealing or worse to survive.
Aug 19, 2009 - 3:49 pm 60. redhogg:If we stop for a second and realize the absurdity of this entire story. Why is this even in the news, is it not normal for a young person to select a religion, so then why is this in the news. Its in the news because we are dealing with an abnormal religion called Islam that everyone wants to pretend is just like every other religion. If Islam is like all other religion then what is the problem and why does the child feel the need to flee?
Obviously there is a serious problem with this religion yet the courts (in their wisdom) is unaware of the dangers associated with this so called peaceful religion.
If anything happens to this child stemming from this incident and the courts decision those who were involved in their ignorance should be held accountable. We should all follow this story closely and let no one off the hook for making a bad decision for this young lady who was in this sick religion.
Aug 19, 2009 - 4:11 pm 61. Proxywar:Why didn’t you provide an example of where honor killings are allowed by Islam?
I’ve done much reseach on this and it isn’t hard to provide.
Aug 20, 2009 - 1:00 am 62. JFM:Moho
The chances you are murdered by a Democrat needing money for drugs are far higher than the ones for being murdered by a bible-thumping Republican.
Aug 20, 2009 - 3:15 am 63. Moss:This girl’s fears are genuine and justified. See links under DAUGHTER SLAUGHTER at The Religion of Peace™ Subject Index
Aug 20, 2009 - 5:40 am 64. Joe:I have been arguing for years, that it’s “Honor killings, but Reputation Killings.” True honor is something can’t be tarnished by anything that anyone else says. True honor leads you to be merciful to an enemy that’s trying to stab you in the back.
Reputation, on the other hand, is something that someone else thinks about you. Your reputation can be slandered, and can be mudslung to high hell.
As for me, my honor is intact, no matter what anyone in my family does. Only my reputation is sullied by what someone in my family does. And reputation is not enough to kill over.
This is one more reason why Islam is fundamentally incompatible with our culture and values.
Aug 20, 2009 - 6:22 am 65. Omar:Proxywar:
In this case, the most direct route to a death sentence would be Shariah based apostasy laws, which are acccepted by all schools of islam:
Mohammad said, “whoever changes his religion, kill him.” Bukhari V4B52N260.
Aug 20, 2009 - 6:58 am 66. Linda Rivera:From the United American Committee:
Contact Governor Crist TODAY
Tell him to Protect Fathima Rifqa Bary from a Muslim Honor Killing by Keeping her in Florida
Office of Governor Charlie Crist:
State of Florida
The Capitol
400 S. Monroe St.
Tallahassee, FL 32399-0001
Email:
Governor Charlie Crist: Charlie.Crist@MyFlorida.com
Lt. Governor Jeff Kottkamp: Jeff.Kottkamp@MyFlorida.com
Website:
http://www.flgov.com
Phone:
Phone Calls to (850) 488-7146 [8am-5pm EST]
Fax letters to (850) 487-0801
For individuals with hearing loss or speech disability:
(850)922-7795 (TTY) or 711 (Florida Telecommuniation Relay)
The Florida Department of Children and Families:
George H. Sheldon, Secretary
1317 Winewood Blvd.
Building 1, Room 202
Tallahassee, Florida
Fax: (850) 922-2993
Phone: (850) 487-1111
Verne Melvin
Acting Regional Director / Ninth Judicial Circuit
Florida Department of Children and Families
400 W. Robinson St.
Orlando 32801
Phone: (407)245-0400
(Maxine McGregor, client relations coordinator)
Friday August 21
Juvenile Court House
2000 E. Michigan St. Orlando, Fl 32806
11:30am – Press Conference
12:00pm – Demonstration in Support of Rifqa
3:00pm – Rifqa Hearing
PLEASE ATTEND THE PRESS CONFERENCE
Aug 20, 2009 - 10:59 am 67. mary m.:AND DEMONSTRATION
To responder#8, Mary Ross. I am in total agreement with your comments. I would also like to know more about your book, Veiled Honor. I am doing my masters thesis on a very similar theme. I would welcome your thought and experiences on women living under shari’a. I am exploring how Islams’ oppressive attitudes towards women, child rearing, sexuality etc. may be the primary driver of young men’s turning to violent extremism.
Aug 20, 2009 - 12:40 pm 68. Phyllis Chesler | Faith Freedom International:[...] of religion but seen, rather, as someone who has taken yet another reactionary path. Perhaps if Rifqa had launched a lawsuit for the right to wear hijab or a burqa in Ohio she might immediately have [...]
Aug 20, 2009 - 2:35 pm 69. Leatherneck:It will not be anger that gets the girl murdered, it will be honor.
ROPMA!
Aug 20, 2009 - 3:24 pm 70. erik of dale:This poor young woman has chosen a life of eternal strife, danger and terror when she embraced Christianity and rejected Islam. Even if her parent stop chasing her down and trying to kill her that will not stop any relatives, uncles, cousins or brothers from doing so. Even if she were to announce that she has decided to now renounce Christianity and embrace Islam it is, for her, too late. She has insulted her family, her religion and Allah himself. She will never be safe, will never be able to have a family of her own, to go to a movie with her friends, go shopping at a mall, take a drive in the country or just walk down a street. She has a big red target painted on her back. This is the “Religion of Peace”.
Aug 20, 2009 - 7:41 pm 71. Fat Man:Due to the peculiarity of their union contract, the Columbus Police Department is one of the worst in the country. Stupid, lazy and cowardly are good adjectives for them. If Florida sends that poor girl back to Ohio, she will be murdered, and the Columbus Police Department will act like they were surprised. Be glad you don’t have to live here.
Aug 20, 2009 - 8:48 pm 72. Steynian 375 « Free Canuckistan!:[...] HAPPY-THINK! Muslims Don’t Murder Apostates — and 9/11 Had Nothing To Do with Islam …. [...]
Aug 21, 2009 - 11:25 am 73. Linda Rivera:Please pray, pray, pray for Rifqa that the court will keep her in Florida! It’s almost 3 p.m. eastern time.
Aug 21, 2009 - 11:42 am 74. Muslim:Hello? she spent 4 years at home without being killed what makes you think her parents will kill her now? Muslims are still human and it is only human to only want the best for our children. No parent anywhere would ever wish harm upon their child. You are psychologist and your spreading this filth? you are a disgrace to the medical community.
Aug 21, 2009 - 2:37 pm 75. Peter the Bubblehead:74. Muslim wrote:
Hello? she spent 4 years at home without being killed what makes you think her parents will kill her now?
Peter wrote: Let’s see? Maybe because, if you actually read the news story, it was because the parents were unaware of her conversion until just before she ran away, and she ran away because the threats started?
Aug 21, 2009 - 4:36 pm 76. Omar:Muslim:
As best I can tell, after the initial death threat, Rifqa agreed to go to islamic classes to calm this down and secure her safety. Just recently, while her dad was away, her mom found some new christian materials, indicating that she was not only unimpressed with their reeducation efforts, but still apostate. At that point, her mother threatened to send her back to Sri Lanka – which, to a young, female christian apostate – is tantamount to a death sentence. She ran a day or two later, before her dad could get back to learn about her continued apostasy. You say her parents are “still human” – well sure they are, but Rifqa is entitled to judge the threat for herself and take whatever measures she feels are necessary to make herself safe. She is NOT required to live everyday in fear – even to spare the feelings of her parents.
Aug 21, 2009 - 8:55 pm 77. Sam Parsons:If this teenager is of sound mind and telling the truth, her parents should be arrested for child abuse. Simply promulgating the beliefs that frighten this youngster is child abuse.
Aug 22, 2009 - 7:41 am 78. News from the Culture War « Pond’rings:[...] is no point in living if your loved ones have been taken away, right? Maybe we should ask Job. Or maybe we should ask the “Religion of Peace,” that religion that is so able to justify killing their daughters for “staining the family [...]
Aug 27, 2009 - 11:20 pm