48 Comments

1. Pajamas Media » Freedom of Religion: A Precious American Right, an Islamic Capital Crime:

[...] Read the entire article here. [...]

Aug 20, 2009 - 1:22 pm 2. George Jochnowitz:

Leftists always give Islam priority over women’s rights. They always give Islam priority over children’s rights. And the also give Marxism priority over children’s rights. Do you remember the case of Elian Gonzalez? Nobody asked him whether or not he wanted to go back to his biological father in Cuba. He was the only person on earth who knew the answer. It never occurred to a soul to question him. Rifqa is suffering from the precedent set in the Gonzalez case.

Aug 20, 2009 - 1:23 pm 3. Fern Sidman:

Speaking of journalists who ingest the Big Lies and the fallacious Blood Libels and regurgitate them to their audiences, had anyone seen Ms. Christiane Amanpour, CNN chief international correspondent present her vehemently anti-Israel bias in her latest program entitled, “Generation Islam”?

It was in this forum that she totally abandoned all professional objectivity and journalistic integrity by presenting the Palestinians in Gaza as victims of Israeli aggression without ever mentioning the culpability of Hamas as using their own people as human shields in the war against terrorism that took place in December/January. She neglected to interview Israeli officials and blamed the Israeli blockade of Gaza for the poverty and torment that has engulfed the lives of the Palestinians that she presented. To really state her case, she interviewed Palestinian children whose houses were destroyed by Israeli shelling and the psychological trauma that ostensibly gripped their lives and those who lost children and siblings.

Not once did she mention that children of Sderot or the incessant Kassam rocket attacks on Israel that were luanched by Hamas and which precipitated this conflict.

As per usual, Dr. Chesler hits the nail on the proverbial head when she says
“When will they learn, when will they ever learn?”

Aug 20, 2009 - 2:11 pm 4. Sylvia Navon:

In my opinion, it really doesn’t matter if Rifqa is or is not stable emotionally. She has violated a primary rule. Anyone who is familiar with the Middle East knows that Honor Murders occur. She knows her own family. And she knows the consequences available for violating the rules, especially for females. Indifference to this insertion of practices which are completely antithetical to our American values is incredible. Europe already has buckled under to demands and violence. The birth rate there makes the ascent of Islam inevitable. Where is everyone?

Aug 20, 2009 - 2:25 pm 5. David W. Lincoln:

A warning was given in 1943 about the dangers of
giving free rein to human responses were merely
subjective. The one who gave the warning was C.S. Lewis, and it was in response to a new textbook which abandoned the classical stance of there being objective truths and values, and ethics which reflected those objective truths.

The first stage was 3 lectures. The second stage was to print those lectures as a pamphlet, and the final stage was to print those lectures as “The Abolition of Man”.

For C.S. Lewis saw the “green book” as moving away from classical education. For what it accomplished was beyond mere passing on of data, but it also handed over received values and virtues to the younger generation from the older. The “green book” denounced such things as mere sentimentalism and meaningless emotion.

So, what does this have to do with the price of tea in China, as it was put. Simply this: there are objective truths, and frankly too many in the MSM dismiss objective truth as mere sentimentalism and meaningless emotion.

This is only part of the book, and perhaps if
Phyllis can be persuaded, she could provide access to at least one essay, or commentary, on “The Abolition of Man”.

Aug 20, 2009 - 3:23 pm 6. xyz:

America awoke briefly in 2001, rolled over, slapped the snooze button and continued their dreams. Next time we wake up, what will we see? We’re not talking theoretical maybes here. Islam is pushing forward with systematic, proven methods of taking over. These methods are not intended to be “seen” by the naked eye anymore than you can see with your eyes who has taken an aspirin. It’s like domestic abuse where the women looks over the last 20 years of her life and says, “If I knew it was going to get this bad 20 years ago, I would have left him then.” It’s a slow process than can best be seen in retrospect. At each step we get used to the “abuse” and it becomes normal, then the next step becomes normal, and so on until we are the Islamic Nation of America. Fat chance? No, Fat Chance we’ll keep our country if we don’t turn the snooze button off permanently and wake up to what’s happening. Am I so far gone that I believe Obama is part of this scheme? Not completely, but he’s not going out of his way to prove that theory wrong. Where did all the money come from for him to go to school and run the most expensive presidential campaign in America history? It has the smell of Saudi money on it to me, not to mention the donations of “believers of fantasy paradise on earth liberals.” Aren’t “We the People” entitled to know these things so that we can cast an informed vote? Merely being free to vote means nothing if we don’t understand what it is we’re voting for or against. Our political – lawyer – law writers can completely keep us in the dark as to what is truly in a bill passing through our legislature until it gets passed and we get screwed without ever feeling a thing. We need to demand that our elected officials pass through several screenings before they ever get their nam on the ballot or before they can be appointed. I think the first thing is to ensure that they have at least have paid THEIR taxes. Maybe “We the People” need a bill for those in power, a bill for the “Right to Govern,” a bill that says we have a right to everything that might affect our voting decisions.

Aug 20, 2009 - 4:32 pm 7. Ralph Kramden:

I keep thinking of that Talmudic dictum: “Those who are merciful to the cruel will be cruel to the merciful.”

Today, to prove our ‘compassion’ we send home a Libyan terrorist with the blood of 270 souls on his hands. He received a heroes welcome.

Today, we prepare to offer up Rifqa as a sacrificial lamb to Moloch. The Age of Aquarius, The Age of The Peversely Grotesque.

Through this child, the Lord G-d of Israel will heap coals upon the heads of The Wicked.

But noone will film it, noone will write about it, noone will notice the waning of Providence. The snuffing out of Truth.

‘When will they learn?’ It is the wrong question. We are now the blind being led by the blind through the wilderness of Post Modernism. According to a lettered aquaintance of mine, today we wait for “Ah Ha!” moments that ‘erupt from the Void’. (Whatever that means)

Great article Phyllis!

Aug 20, 2009 - 5:35 pm 8. robotech master:

In the end you should ask yourself “what are you really doing”.

This comes down to simple reality that the government doesn’t care. It has its own agenda(most all when you let a leftist(aka obama) or even centrist(aka bush) into office. They firmly believe the government can and should do massive amounts of things to “the people”.

Rifqa Bary is a classic case of government run amok. The government doesn’t care what happens to Rifqa Bary because no one in the government will suffer any problem should she be raped and killed by her family… of course they will suffer problems should they prevent the raping and killing of her in the form of being called “racist, etc, etc” and have “angry mobs” telling them how evil they are… they simply can’t deal with that.

Like all things in life this is a simple risk vs reward equation. Feeling guilty about being called racist and having “valuable” money sent to another elected official.(and of course the chance of death threats and other stuff).

Vs

Protecting Rifqa Bary who has no money, can’t even vote and has nothing “valuable” to give to any elected official.

As anyone can plainly see protecting Rifqa Bary just isn’t worth it.

So what happens if Rifqa Bary is turned over and killed? Well lets see maybe a few days of bad press. Will the cops who said the family was great suffer? Nope they won’t lose they’re jobs or for that matter they’re sons or daughters. They won’t even feel any guilt about it because they will simply say “Hey it was the judges call their was nothing I could do”.

And what of the judge… will he lose his job, daughter or even sleep? Nope he like the cops will lose NOTHING and he will blame some abstract “law” and how its “the law’s” fault.

Lawyers? Nah they will just say they “had no idea… 1 in a million”. “If they had known they never would have taken the case.”

In the end everyone has someone or something they blame and how its not they’re fault… its never anyone fault.

Life is often very simple and straight forward… risk vs reward. The simple fact is their is near no risk in the worse case of Rifqa Bary dieing, however a whole mountain of rewards. On the other side protecting Rifqa Bary comes with huge risk and no rewards. The choice is simple for judges, cops, elected officials… giving Rifqa Bary back to her family is far and again more important then anything else.

Its worked before… we continue to reward bad decisions and behavior by our elected and unelected government officials. They have no reason to stop making those decisions that best benefit themselves.

If you truly want to change anything then one must start at the most basic level… risk vs reward.

You must make it risky for government officials to blindly pick the easy answer and clearly most rewarding answer. Since most of us can’t afford to give “rewards” that side is moot… however we can easily add risk.

And no risk is greater then the death penalty… counter to the pitiful beliefs of the massively ignorant, the death penalty is very effective at deterring “issues”. Its worked wonders for the terrorists in the EU. Many government officials only know or believe it in their sub-concise but they do believe it. This however is more then enough to move them in a direction that benefits those who really will commit action of violence against them.

If you were to say write a letter to the judge saying that his family will suffer the same harm that befalls Rifqa Bary should you return her to her family that judge will be more cautious about the decisions in the case… but only if they believe that its true risk… same with the lawyers and cops and other officials…

If they were required to make a decision that included the risk of harm to themselves or family they would be far less willing to take the easy rewards that are out there now… since they won’t be so easy or risk free.

Their will be no letter saying that your fate is tied to this girls fate choose carefully before you decide…
Their will be no angry mob to have the police, judges, lawyers or elected officials punished for the death of Rifqa Bary. Their will be no risk at all… and the cycle will continue as it always does because good ppl turn a blind eye to clearly stupid ppl looking out for themselves and refusing to do the job they are often are sworn to do.

In the end we only have ourselves to blame… we are letting it happen and no one is willing to do what it takes and accept the fact that some must die and be hated so that many can live and be free. In the army we have a saying… “The easy left or the hard right”. This saying applies to politics as well… its easy to be leftwing giving out “free stuff”, “righting wrongs”, and a host of other “noble goals”. Its alot harder to be rightwing and tell ppl they need to do things for themselves, that they need to work hard, that your not getting “free stuff” and that you will never see “utopia” in your lifetime.

Aug 20, 2009 - 5:51 pm 9. Anonymous:

I don’t think the Leftists will wake up until they’ve been hung as ungodly pagans or their sons have been raped by Islamists.

Aug 20, 2009 - 7:04 pm 10. Leatherneck:

For the MSM, or any other Libtard, it is about destruction of Christian morality.

Islam helps this agenda, and the Leftards look the other way. Yea, I am way off base on this one.

ROPMA!

Aug 20, 2009 - 7:42 pm 11. Shef Rogers:

Chesler’s arguments get more bizarre every time. You guys have to understand that in most of the world, anyone asserting that the US media are biased in FAVOR of Islam would be taken as a stand-up comic.
What’s genuinely interesting is Chesler’s unique synthesis of 1970s victim-feminism with Islam-baiting yellow journalism. Fascinating, as cultural history–but utter nonsense, of course.

Aug 20, 2009 - 9:01 pm 12. Moho:

I published this elsewhere, but I’m happy to do it again to show you just how misdirected your concerns about Islam are:

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_percap-crime-murders-per-capita

The five highest murder rates are in countries with no substantial Islamic population. In fact, they could be considered Christian.

1. Colombia
2. South Africa
3. Jamaica
4. Venezuela
5. Russia

The first Islamic country on the list comes in at Number 27, with fewer murders than the US. The next is Malaysia, with half the US rate and the next is Tunisia at 50 with one quarter the US rate. The last two on the list are Qatar and Saudi Arabia, Arab Muslim countries with a murder rate less than 2% that of the US.

Look, talk about honor killings all you like, they’re seriously not a big problem when compared to the US’s murder rate. And if you really want to stop killings, you might want to try one of the most Christian nations on earth, Colombia.

Aug 20, 2009 - 9:04 pm 13. TG:

#12. Nonsense. Obviously, mass murder — as in Sudan (and often focused heavily on women) — is not counted in the stats you cite. We don’t know how many women are honor killed, raped and tortured in the Muslim world. That information is impossible to come by. But we know the number is large, judging from unofficial reports from people subjugated in those places. It is also much easier to get accurate information in Western democracies than in totalitarian, religious dictatorships.

#11 – The Yale Press’ recent capitulation to fear of Muslim violence (refusing to publish the Mohammad cartoons in a book about the conflagration a few years ago) is just the latest confirmation of what Ms. Chesler has been courageously writing about for years.

# 11 and 12’s posts are bright gems in the currency of false moral equivalency.

Aug 20, 2009 - 10:03 pm 14. Persia:

Moho, you are confusing Islam with other (very) Religions. Islam is Politics, while Christianity (in this Example) isn’t. In Western Non-islamic Country, People come all over the World, and in the West People, and they belong to the most varied Religions, or they do not belong to any Religion. It it Time that you Islamic People understand this Point. On the other Hand, if we want to talk about Criminals in Western Countries, there are your Brothers filling Western Prisons, due to a vast Range of Crimes, Raping included. You should know – since you seem to be so well informed! Or should I say “brainwashed” and filled with so called “half Truths”, like every Islamic Person is in the World, thanks to their Religious/Political Elites, which try to defamate Anything which is Non-islamic -, What Kind of Brainwashing is going on in Prisons: your Imams convert Prisoners to Islam, since in Islam it is allowed to steal and rape and Whatever else – exactely the Way your Leader Muhammad did -, if the Victim is a Non-islamic Person. Shortly: you, Who like to be very well informed (that’s Good, but try to get the Truth, instead of Islamic Deceptions), should learn more about Islamic History, filled with CRIMES (against Others) and BLOOD (of Others). You are analysing the Murdering Rate of Saudi Arabia: Why don’t you analyse the Rate of Human/Women’s/Children’s Rights there? Islamic People and Non-islamic People simply think and reason starting from two totally different Points of View: you watch Things starting from a Medieval Point of View. Others watch Things starting from a XXI Century Point of View. And well, there is no Doubt that we are at least no more living in Middle Age, then about XXI Century, there are Civilizations which are much more than 2′000 Years old.

Otherwise, the above perfectly ties with the Thing I wished to point out, which is: I think we have to analyze the different Points of View (as People, Communities, Countries, Continents, Gender, …) used to consider Islam. How comes that in a same House one rejects Islam, and another hug it? How comes that a Woman rejects Islam and a Man hug it? How comes that a free Person rejects Islam and a Prisoner hug it? How comes that Human Rights Movements criticize Islam and Religious Leaders hug it? How comes that “normal” Citizens don’t wellcome Islam while “VIP” wellcome it? How come that Psychologists and Psychiatrists clearly see Islam as a Disease, and People more interested in Matterial Things praise it? How Poors see it? How Undependant People see it? How Southern People see it (and Why)? How Northern People see it (and Why)? What Kind of Politics (past and present) is there in Countries Where Islam is accepted and encouraged; What Kind of Politics (past and present) is there in Countries Where Islam is criticized and discouraged? (…)

Shef, maybe you’re a bit Ignorant, rather than Chesler’s Articles being a Non-sense. In our Academies the Policy is to teach Women that they are Guilty for the wolrdwide Problems. Why? Because they wanted their Freedom, they wanted to work outside the House, they wanted to make Career, they wanted …. This is What our Youngs learn, and What they (eventually) believe in. Nothing to be surprised if the West gets Masochist and Women’s Movements are pro-Islam. This is a true Cancer of our Society, and I firmly think that the Boards and Professors of those Academies should be sued for Human Rights’ Violation.

Aug 20, 2009 - 10:23 pm 15. robotech master:

To 12. Moho

In other news today the new york times has reported their is no famine in the Ukraine none at all… everything is fine move along… move along.

Aug 21, 2009 - 12:12 am 16. Rashputin:

Moho (12)

What a wonderful misdirection. You may or may not actually believe what you are saying, but either way, you are either deliberately attempting to deceive others or have been deceived yourself. Christians do not hold murder up as an accepted solution to family problems; they see it as both evil and illegal. To say that honor killings are a non-issue compared to the murder rate in Christian nations is an extremely feeble and transparent attempt to ignore the issue as most Muslims do.

Once Islam has murdered the tens of thousands, or even millions, who are not Muslim in order to impose Islamic rule, it has created a more homogenous population. Were you to start today in the US, Columbia, South Africa, Jamaica, or any country, and murder or drive out of that nation anyone who did not agree to worship at The Church of Al Gore, you would most assuredly have a lower murder rate once everyone had pledged submission to rule by the imams of Mother Earth. Homogeneous populations like Japan or like those cleansed by the takeover of Muslims always have a lower murder rate.

Islam is a cult that has been spread by the sword and continues to be spread by the sword. For all the talk of peaceful Islam and the spreading of Islam by simple out populating of others, Islam always resorts to the sword as the final stage of making any nation an Islamic nation. Watch Europe as the percentage of Muslims rises. At some point, the idea that they will take over Europe with a higher birthrate alone will be proven false. That’s because Islamists are never confident that they are in charge until they have slain others on behalf of their faith. That’s the reason so many “peaceful” Muslims donate to groups well known to be violent and dedicated to the eradication of anyone who does not become Muslim. They are vicariously participating in the murder of the “infidels” and can therefore hold their heads up with pride at having helped to rid the world of opposition to Islam.

Other than in the wet dreams of revisionist historians, there has never been a single case of people calling themselves Christian murdering even a tenth of the number of people Islam murdered when imposing itself on Egypt. And Egypt was a minor bloodbath compared to the eighty million Hindus murdered when Islam invaded India. To this very day, Muslims BRAG about having murdered that eighty million people in the service of Allah and point to it as a model to be followed by the faithful. That’s eighty million men, women, and children as counted by both the invading Muslims and the few survivors to escape them, not by a group of “Western White Guys” who many people like yourself accuse of lying (in spite of mountains of evidence). In addition to that eighty million, most sources say that there were at least that many more that died of overwork as a result of enslavement or from famine caused by the invaders destroying the crops and stored foodstuffs. At the same time the mass murders were taking place, the Islamic ruler was reporting that violence and murder had been greatly reduced since Islam had taken over that part of India.

The mass murders in India and everywhere else Muslims have taken over are well documented, far better documented in fact, than their “Hooey Book” or their “Big Book of Convenient Fabrications, Revisions, and Gotha’s”, they hold in nearly equal esteem. Just as they do not consider mass murder actual murder to be reported as such, they do not consider honor killings and several other forms of murder worthy of reporting in their murder statistics. No Islamic female is ever free from a male who has life and death power over her, be it her father or her husband. By allowing and even encouraging honor killings Islam reinforces that fact for all to see. That’s why it is ignored and not considered to be murder.

If half the population of an Islamic state were wiped out in a wave of honor killings, the official murder rate would increase not a bit. Women are only counted in murder statistics if the woman was slain by an infidel. Likewise, infidels who may be murdered are not included in the murder statistics unless they were slain by another infidel. If you care to inform yourself, you’ll find that there are quite a few things classified as “killings” which are excluded from murder statistics in Islamic states. That’s far different than the murder statistics in Christian nations where Christians see each and every murder (with extremely rare exceptions), to be both evil and illegal no matter the sex or faith of the victim may be.

Enjoy playing with your little attempts at misdirection

Aug 21, 2009 - 2:32 am 17. Caldfyr:

The teenage girl seems to have acted with the forethought you’d expect from someone her age. She should have waited until she could legally leave home to come out of the closet as a christian. Nevertheless, her lack of wisdom doesn’t make the impending honor killing any less disgusting.

It shouldn’t be surprising that the liberal media is going to great lengths to ignore anything which puts their darlings in a negative light.

Ms. Chesler, I don’t see what atheists or secularists have to do with anything. Atheists are not inherently evil or uncaring, and being a secularist does not make you an atheist. The fact that non-perverted Christianity teaches good values does not make Christianity the ultimate source of them.

Aug 21, 2009 - 4:07 am 18. Caldfyr:

Moho, you’ve missed the point.

The concern is that the honor killings are perpetrated by people who feel their religion grants them the moral right, compounded by the fact that the liberal media refuses to cover anything that would make any interpretation of Islam look bad.

Great Britain is already working to institute Sharia Law. It is looking less inconceivable that there will be different laws for different people if we can’t get some public outrage.

Aug 21, 2009 - 4:17 am 19. Mark Rogers:

Why are we so scared in the West? Why so craven?? The reaction to Muslim sensibilities suggests that even though it is denied, even the liberal media realises that Islam is on the warpath, as it has so often been in the past. No other group, not even women (witness the by-and-large feminist silence on Islamic mistreatment of women, especially honor killings)is treated with such conspicuous kid-gloves. Perhaps Islam is expected to win anyway – and with this craven attitude towards it, it will… What is to be done when the powerful in a civilization throw their civilization away?

Aug 21, 2009 - 4:27 am 20. Paul -Indiana:

#12. Moho, even a single ‘honor’ killing is too many. Don’t start with this moral equivalency BS.

Aug 21, 2009 - 5:08 am 21. Parabellum:

Look, talk about honor killings all you like, they’re seriously not a big problem…

Tell that to the victims, numbskull.

Aug 21, 2009 - 5:46 am 22. John P:

Another excellent article, and one that highlights the central problem we’re facing; namely The West’s unwillingness to talk about Islam`s unpleasant aspects, aspects such as ‘honour’ killings.

Rest assured that if a female Christian convert to Islam had been threatened by her Christian parents and ran away from home, that story would be all over the front pages and news networks.

Aug 21, 2009 - 6:59 am 23. Moho:

Paul–moral equivalency? You people are morally obtuse, pointing out the splinter in the other’s eye, while you have a redwood forest in your own. Its a question of priorities–you’re society is falling apart and you’re obsessed with what muslims are doing. Children!

Aug 21, 2009 - 7:03 am 24. Moho:

Rashputin–

You may or may not actually believe what you are saying,

What the??? I just showed you a website with the info. The question of belief is your own, not mine. I go with the facts. What I want to know is why you’re so okay with violence fueled by a drug war that makes Colombia the murder capital of the world. Its about priorities. You people gladly give up sensible ones to lavish attention on your private hatreds and bigotry.

Aug 21, 2009 - 7:06 am 25. BettyBlue:

Murder is always a big problem to the victims.

And honor killings are becoming more and more of a problem here, in the US, which is supposed to be against this kind of opression!

Aug 21, 2009 - 7:26 am 26. BettyBlue:

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/1116434/the_honor_killing_of_sarah_and_amina.html?cat=17

Aug 21, 2009 - 7:29 am 27. BettyBlue:

And here’s another case: http://www.frontpagemag.com/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=34183

Aug 21, 2009 - 7:35 am 28. BettyBlue:

Rashputin, Moho’s trying to derail the thread. Ignore him.

(He’s also quoting Jesus, which is kind’ve funny, in his case.)

Aug 21, 2009 - 7:37 am 29. BettyBlue:

And more honor killings in America: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,391531,00.html

Aug 21, 2009 - 7:39 am 30. Paul -Indiana:

#23 Moho. Who’s society is falling apart? Perhaps you think I am in Afghanistan where the ‘religious’ nut-jobs are killing people who vote. Perhaps you think I’m in Libya where a mass murderer has just been hailed as a hero. Maybe you think I’m in Saudi Arabia where a women will be caned for drinking a beer? Maybe you think that I am as brainwashed as you are, by the cult called Islam. Go ride your camel.

Aug 21, 2009 - 8:43 am 31. colorless.blue.ideas:

I did a quick search of “Rifqa Bary” on several news websites.

foxnews.com: 25 stories
abcnews.com:

Aug 21, 2009 - 10:30 am 32. colorless.blue.ideas:

I did a quick search of “Rifqa Bary” on several news websites, as of 21AUG09, noon CDT.

foxnews.com: 25 stories
abcnews.com: 18 stories
cnn.com: No Results ‘We did not find News results for “Rifqa Bary”.’
msnbc.msn.com: 5 stories
news.yahoo.com: 4 stories
cbsnews.com: 2 stories
associatedpress.com: 1 story (in last 7 days)

These results match my impressions from looking at the news: Fox is a leader, with ABC also well above average. CNN is surprisingly low, but not unbelievably low.

Aug 21, 2009 - 10:39 am 33. Dave M.:

They will learn just before the sword severs their heads from their shoulders but it will be too late. Allah akbar infidel!

Aug 21, 2009 - 11:01 am 34. Rashputin:

Mohole – (24)

“What I want to know is why you’re so okay with violence fueled by a drug war that makes Colombia the murder capital of the world.”

Actually, the drug war that makes one country the murder capital of the world is going on in Afghanistan where the Taliban and other wonderful Muslims have for so long funded themselves and their jihad with money from the sale of Opium and Heroin. Far more people have been murdered there than in Columbia, another fact you chose to ignore in your attempts to make followers of the Moon God into wonderful people worthy of acceptance by the civilized world.

“Its about priorities. You people gladly give up sensible ones to lavish attention on your private hatreds and bigotry.”

In Saudi there are highway signs warning all non-Muslims to not even exit at particular off ramps on pain of death. If that weren’t enough, perhaps you could try to see the reaction you’d get there and in a number of other Muslim countries were you to try to read your own copy of the Bible all by yourself on a public park bench. If you have sufficient money and political connections to beg for your life and you survive that little adventure, come back and tell us how it worked out. Otherwise, we’ll assume your public beheading for reading a banned book to yourself has finally acquainted you with what the words bigotry and hatred actually mean in the real world.

I realize that you and Cat Stevens like to portray the Muslim world as a wonderful place full of happy people floating through life on clouds of joy, but it just ain’t so. Furthermore, you have to either lie about it or admit you’ve never been there in order to say otherwise. Of course, if you’re a paranoid and joyless Muslim yourself, you could always just repeat what you’ve been trained to tell infidels and be done with it since it’s not a lie to lie to infidels. Right?

You know, you sometimes run into people who worked abroad and who know what things are like in the Muslim world. You can’t always count on just spreading your BS and calling anyone who disagrees with you a bigot for simply stating the facts. You are obviously brainwashed into thinking Islam is somehow superior in the way it impacts societies. Anything other than brainwashing would allow you to see that Islam reduces the societies it controls to intolerant slums full of enslaved women and paranoid men, the more intolerant and paranoid the better according to their imams.

Now, buzz off and continue your mental masturbation elsewhere. People here KNOW the facts and any nice little links or attempts to equate society wide mass murder, mass enslavement of women, and deliberate mass ignorance, with the problems a portion of the population in Western societies causes aren’t going to impress anyone.

Have a wonderful, rock kissing, day

Aug 21, 2009 - 12:48 pm 35. ConcernedConservative:

Dear Phyliss,

I just read the following on the Fox News website:

“She escaped from her family’s brutal tyranny and shamed her family further through public exposure,” Chesler said. “Muslim girls and women are killed for far less.”

Could you please elaborate on exactly the “family’s brutal tyranny” was the drove this poor girl to flee for her life. Did her family explicitly threaten to kill her.

Thank you for any clarification.

Aug 21, 2009 - 2:25 pm 36. Shef Rogers:

Rashputin #34: Rash Baby, spittle-flecked rage is not a rebuttal. The guy has a point: the drug war right here in the US has ruined hundreds of thousands of lives. If you “conservatives” lived up to your name and fought against the unconstitutional drug laws that have wrecked so many fellow Americans’ lives, I’d be one of you. It’s the sickeningly skewed priorities you pursue that make it so hard to side with you. You get all choked up about this weird girl in God-knows-where, but you’re fine with the fact that your fellow Americans are rotting in prison, getting raped and terrorized, for the “crime” of preferring joints to gin. It’s just plain weird.

Aug 21, 2009 - 5:12 pm 37. Rashputin:

ConcernedConservative – cough – (35)

The following is excerpted from the “Atlas Shrugged” website (http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/) which has extensive coverage of this incident and has covered several earlier incidents likeit, some of which ended with the murder of the “offending” daughter or daughters.

“Consistent with her previous testimony.

I was threatened by my dad. When my dad found out – I had a Facebook, that’s how he found out – and phone calls from the Muslim community started coming in with emails that confronted me. And I had a laptop and he took that laptop and waved it in the air and he was about to beat me with it, and he said, “If you have this Jesus in your heart, you’re dead to me. You’re not my daughter.” And I refused to speak but he said, “I will kill you. Tell me the truth.” In these words, bad words, cuss words. So I knew that I had to get away. “

The article from which I extracted the above excerpt as well as several earlier ones on the same subject gives you a detailed report on this particular incident. If you read further at the same site, you’ll see that this is far from an isolated incident.
Unfortunately, I don’t know if you can find it using Google these days, they may have been added back to the Google approved list, but at one time Google censored the site along with a number of others that honestly report on the behavior of Muslims rather than reporting the propaganda sponsored by Islamic groups.

Have a nice day

Aug 21, 2009 - 6:56 pm 38. myth buster:

Moho, no we’re not okay with the drug war. If you had any sense in your head you’d realize that Christians consider illicit drug use to be sorcery, and trafficking in sinful goods and services like illegal drugs, pornography and prostitution to be spiritual murder. Islam is a lie from the lowest pit of hell. May the name of Mohammed be held in everlasting contempt and derision! May every last Quran be burned in Gehenna, until no one can remember that such a thing as Islam ever existed, save that it was the most violent entity to ever call itself a religion! At least idol worshipers generally consider lying to be wrong, but Islam ORDERS people to lie in order to lull non-Muslims into a false sense of security.

Aug 21, 2009 - 7:19 pm 39. Rashputin:

Shef Rogers – (36)

“… spittle-flecked rage is not a rebuttal …”

My, what an inaccurate and sub-par attempt to mischaracterize my comments. I hope you can do better in the future when attempting to lay unconstitutional drug laws at the feet others. Maybe you could point to a post of mine that stated I agreed with such laws, for example, or to a portion of my post that even vaguely implied that the drug war in this country was appropriately waged. Perhaps you’d like post such comments focusing on that topic rather than here where the drug issue has only been included by those who are trying to change the subject.

I also think you might need to grasp the basic point about our country that the state is not subservient to a single legal religion. Therefore, however disproportionate the consequences may be for violators, drug laws are established and enforced by a government of elected leaders. That means that there is a way to reform those laws if you and others are in the majority and find them unjust. Maybe you could point to a Muslim country with a superior constitutional system that actually allowed the changing of such things as drug laws if the majority wished to do so. Even in Afghanistan where people are very bravely exercising what democracy they can, they are still unable to alter laws in a way that would directly contradict Islamic law. In addition, in this country there is no national government swearing to carry out the will of Allugh which includes strict injunctions against selling drugs to Muslims while at the same time funding itself with the money it makes from selling drugs to Muslims.

Until you can return to the matter at hand, your opinion of the predatory sexual behavior of the huge prison population (an extremely large percentage of which is in fact Muslim, a religion that allows and encourages the homosexual rape of infidels) is nothing more than an example of your posting your favorite little talking point wherever you can whether it’s relevant or not.

Have a great gin joint kind of evening

Aug 21, 2009 - 9:34 pm 40. robotech master:

To 36. Shef Rogers

You do know leftists push the drug war 100x what the “conservatives” push for it… and the right wing hates the drug war… The leftist need the drug war because they can’t pass healthcare without it… they are now expanding the drug war to include things like tobacco and fast food and hundreds of other things all in the name of leftism. You see poorly educated ppl like you who know nothing about the drug war can only spew mindless talking points about it.

It won’t be long before leftism start the drug wars against the largest drug dealer in the world… McDonalds…

Aug 21, 2009 - 11:27 pm 41. Larsen E. Whipsnade:

12. Moho said: “The five highest murder rates are in countries with no substantial Islamic population. In fact, they could be considered Christian.

1. Colombia ”

When I look at this same list (most recent), Columbia is not even in the top 10. Most of “Christian” Europe is at the bottom of the list (lowest rates). The country with the LOWEST murder rate is Spain – ostensibly a Christian country. I have trouble seeing exactly where you got your information and how you reached your conclusions.

Aug 22, 2009 - 9:46 am 42. Rashputin:

Larsen – (41)

Mohole makes a lot of stuff up to fill in his posts around the talking points list he has. Otherwise, he wouldn’t be so predictable both here and elsewhere, nor would he post such easily fact checked garbage. People have allowed such lies to remain unchallenged for far too long thinking that everyone could see through them.

Unfortunately, the past election proved that you cannot allow the liberals to build a scaffold of lies for years and then keep their lies from being believed during an election. Just as they constantly circulate and post their talking points, they need to be constantly challenged. In another comments section Moho is being ripped a new one on another subject, so I’m glad to see that those like him are no longer ignored in hopes they’ll eventually go away.

Regards

Aug 22, 2009 - 1:30 pm 43. Louise:

To paraphrase something I read recently, “[ten years ago] Tolerance was to recognize that everyone should be respected for their decision regarding religion. Today, tolerance is that everyone is right.” It can’t be both. The first is true and should be upheld, the second is very wrong. If you read the New Testament you will find that Christianity espouses tolerance by respecting someone in their decision, but not necessarily considering it to be right. But living in peace, regardless. Liberals believe “everyone is right.” But that cannot be sustained, as evidenced by the largely liberal media ignoring the most heinous of practices and crimes – the “honor” killing of a female child that is determined by maniac, crazy male members of their family. The media can ignore the elephant in the room, but he is breaking the fine china! NO one with any semblance of decency can excuse “honor” killings. Some factions of Islam, sadly, don’t agree with either statement. They are right, everyone else is wrong and must die. The only Muslim I know is a peaceful, loving person. I have no idea whether he believes Christians to be wrong (although I certainly suspect he does), he is too much of a gentleman to ever begin that conversation. But it seems to me that for every one of him, there are 100,000 suicide bombers and child-killers. Whether that is right or wrong (I hope it is wrong), the peaceful Islamics had better figure out a way to overrule and control their bellicose brothers.

Aug 23, 2009 - 12:26 pm 44. Stephen Golay:

MESSAGE SENT TO “CAIR” AND THE MUSLIM COMMUNITY

Had sent the following message earlier. Another posting is in order because I am deeply concerned.

CAIR is a public entity concerned with educating the citizenry. Thought you would be interested in how this one citizen perceives your message.

I understand that you are handling the case against Rifqa Bary. I am a concerned American citizen. Concerned about the protection of this young woman’s constitutional First Amendment Rights. I am also concerned why, since 9/11, we have yet to hear from the Muslim community an affirmation (unburdened by nuances) that, under the Constitution, an individual’s First Amendment RIghts, regarding religion, trumps any presumed rights of a particular religious community. I say that as one who is securely rooted in his own religious community.

An individual’s religious beliefs should not be curtailed, or the person punished, for holding such, just because those beliefs are claimed by the person’s prior religious community as being “offensive” or “dishonoring”. That can only be if the law, God forbid, should recognizes that the group has extra constitutional authority over the individual, and can exercise that claim over its members; that can only be so if the law, itself, is subjected to the individual’s bonded relationship to the religion or ancestral heritage they were born into. In the case of Rifqa Bary, Islam. As a nation, do not what to go down that road. Sweet Jesus, Savior, Son of God, protect us from that folly! Holy Mary, Mother of God, defend us in that battle!

Please CAIR/OHIO, since the mainstream media identifies you as the first order advocate for the Muslim community, where is that affirmation regarding the Constitution? Where is your statement that the Constitution must be interpreted and applied without reference to Islam and Islamic Law?

Better yet, where is your joy when a young Muslim man or woman (entering the obligations of adulthood) questions, searches, and settles down to convictions and commitments they discovered on their own? Though at first it may be diffifult to bear, so what if those convictions of hers are contrary to family, clan, ancestral history and prior religious community. Again, so what? Though, I am quite able to acknowledge, when a young person walks out and away, that there may be a bit of sadness, this should, in fact, be an occasion of great joy: for one entering adulthood has not walked away from religion as such, but has found and accepted the way GOD HAS CHOSEN TO BRING HIM OR HER TO HIMSELF.

So, where is your joy for Rifqa Bary?

If Allah is truly compassionate and merciful one would think Allah himself would be rejoicing at Rifqa Bary’s exercise of liberty to embrace God’s invitation. He would be dancing a jig with Archangel Gabriel knowing Rifqa heard His invitation and gave herself to Him utterly. And, if that invitation comes through Jesus Christ her Savior? So, again, so what? It is no business of yours.

Rifqa Bary’s First Amendment rights is what is at stake in this case, in that Florida courtroom. This case, the story of her conversion and act of flight, could become a watershed moment in American constitutional history. Let it be, pray God may it be so.

So my prayer for you. May Allah give you the truest of compassion and mercy, which is witnessed only when you extend it to others. Be, for America, a testimony of that compassion by offering its hand to Rifqa Bary.

Thank you.

OPEN MESSAGE TO THE MUSLIM COMMUNITY REGARDING RIFQA BARY

Are you taking action to defend Rifqa Bary’s right to leave Islam?

It looks like not. If so, please inform the public.

In the case of Rifqa Bary there is only one fundamental question. Here, we state it in several ways – as variations, so to speak, on a foundational theme.

Are you saying, by your refusal to stand up for her, that, in America, there should be no such protection, for either a minor or an adult? That any presumed claim that the religious community has over the individual trumps the thoughts and actions of the individual person? That the liberties of those thoughts and actions must be denied if they offend or contradict those of the religious or cultural community?

Are you saying, by your refusal to stand up for her, that, in America, the courts should decide against the individual person (and for the religious community) if that person’s thoughts, beliefs, or actions, contradict the community’s self-understanding?

Is this especially so in the case of one who (acting upon his or her constitutional rights) decides to leave the community? Should the courts compel that individual to reenter the community and adhere to its doctrines and behaviors? In deciding the fate of such an individual person (minor or adult), should the courts give preferential consideration to the community’s current or prior claim upon that individual’s thoughts and behaviors (based on the “privileged” concept that an individual’s fundamental identity is group/community based?

If the individual’s thoughts or actions give offense to that community’s self-understanding (especially those of the leave-taker), should the court compel the defendant to renounce those contradictory beliefs and conform to the community’s self-understanding?

Are you saying, by your refusal to stand for her, that Rifqa Bary’s primary (if not only) identity is the religion handed to her by family, clan, ancestral history, or the wider Muslim community? If this notion is fundamentally foundational to who Rifqa Bary is, are you claiming that no court or state action (no other outside influence) has the legal or moral right to separate her from it; that she, herself, has no recourse or liberty to do so?

What’s to be drawn from all this?

Does this mean that Islam has a weak (if not non-existent) understanding of individual personal identity? In short, that the religion lacks a true philosophy of being.

If that is the case, it certainly, for me, answers some outstanding questions. For without such a philosophy (which has existed in the West since Aristotle, via Augustine, Aquinas, and beautifully crafted in the Anglo-American experience) law is orphaned to become whimsical, arbitrary, with nothing better to do than to tease the temptation of totalitarianism.

The West, no surprise, has its own sad history of disregarding that philosophy. It can ill afford the upheaval of integrating an alien self-understanding that cannot or will not yield to the tested wisdom of its civilizing philosophy.

Though she may not be able to articulate it, it is this hard-earned glory that Rifqa Bary is resting against, and trusting to shelter her.

Rifqa Bary, by the witness of her convictions – even through her act of flight – stands squarely upon the wisdom and protection of this tradition. Her sense of self is rooted within it. No family, no clan, no ancestral history, no community, has the legal or moral right to uproot this young lady.

So what is CAIR, and the Muslim community, doing to assist Rifqa Bary in staying put in the ground she has chosen (rooted and nurtured) so she can blossom into the beautiful woman of God’s heart’s desire?

________________________________________________

In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful, why are you not defending this girl’s right to convert out of Islam?

Rifqa Bary is a most loved, particular friend of God. She carries, as we all do, His image within her which no man, no COMMUNITY, no STATE, no CLAN or FAMILY, can possess or rule. This image of God, which she expresses as her love and loyalty to Jesus Christ, is off limits to others; it cannot be enslaved to the rule and dictates of her family, the Islamic Community, or the State.

God found Rifqa Bary through his Son, Jesus Christ. In finding her God brought her to Himself. This is her deepest identity: not her family, not the Islamic Community. Standing before this the State, through its courts, must remain silent – except to affirm her constitutional right to find and practice matters of the heart and soul as she is called. That affirmation extends to protecting her from family or communities that seek to infringe upon that exercise.

Regarding mattes of religion, when weighing the issues involved in the conflict of religious communities and individual persons, the individual has the constitutional protection. (This is not skirting the pivotal truth that American society – including its Constitution – is founded on Judaic-Christian underpinnings. That is simply a discussion for another time.)

Related to this, the Constitution does not acknowledge any legal or moral notion that one is somehow “born” into a religion. Is the Muslim community in America seeking to change this fundamental constitutional understanding? Is the Muslim community under compulsion to do so anyway because such a notion is foundational to Islam itself? Does that explain the silence?

This is an important question. It goes to the heart of the Rifqa Bary case. Answer please. An informed debate with Robert Spencer of Jihad Watch would satisfy me.

So, what’s up? Why the silence? What’s wrong with coming to the aid of one who found Islam wanting and left it under threat to her life? Why the sitting on of hands? Why are you not bearing down on the powers that be in Ohio and Florida to do the right thing? Why are you not filling court briefs in support of Rifqa Bary’s emancipation?

I have followed these so-called apostasy cases in America and abroad since 9/11. All these years I have waited for that definitive Muslim voice to state firmly (without self-protecting deception) that Islam has no objection to any man, woman, or child, walking away from the religion; that ultimately Islam (as a society, as a political religion) cannot, should not, rule the hearts (or bodies) of men, which belong to God only.

The absence of that voice makes me wonder. Makes me wonder about much. Is the Muslim community seeking to change America’s constitution, making it an offense, under law, for an individual (minor or adult) to leave Islam? To make evangelizing Muslims illegal? I’ll state it that frankly. Maybe Islam in America is on that course. I don’t know; you tell me. All I know, something’s in the air. Hearing a few Methodists, a couple of Jesuits, and some J-Street Jews talk about not giving a damn – I am beginning to be righteously fearful.

Back to Rifqa.

In this particular apostasy case of Rifqa Bary’s (yes, that is what it is) why the damning silence?

Does the honor of any family clan or community of believers rank higher in the loves of God than this young lady? That is not the American way.

If so, than damn family honor. Damn the community, any community that requires for its self-identity the smashing of underfoot.

Come out, come out, from wherever you are. Stand up for the weak, the particular, the voice of the one lamb so loved by God.

God is truly compassionate, merciful. But is Allah? Show me. Exhibit it by extending compassion and mercy to Rifqa. Islam will survive this young woman’s leaving it. Or is Islam so weak, so unsure of itself, that to stand tall it can only do so on top of what it has smashed down?

If that is not Islam, if I have it all wrong, then do the courageous thing – stand tall and defend the legal, moral, and spiritual right of apostasy in America. Yes, the legal right and (too often these days) the moral duty to apostatize. To exercise the right of apostasy goes to the heart of liberty. It, oddly, touches upon who we are as Americans.

Stephen Golay

Aug 23, 2009 - 5:43 pm 45. Stephen Golay:

ADMINSTRATOR: PLEASE, PLEASE REPLACE PRIOR POST WITH THIS CORRECTED ONE. THANK YOU.
Stephen Golay

TO CAIR/OHIO:

Had sent the following messages, below, earlier. Another posting is in order because I am deeply concerned.

CAIR is a public entity concerned with educating the citizenry. Thought you would be interested in how this one citizen perceives your message.

I understand that you are handling the case against Rifqa Bary to live her life, within her family, as a Christian – without fear. Am i right or wrong?

I am a concerned American citizen. Concerned about the protection of this young woman’s constitutional First Amendment Rights. I am also concerned why, since 9/11, we have yet to hear from the Muslim community redarding an affirmation, unburdened by nuances, that, under the Constitution, an individual’s First Amendment Rights, regarding religion, trumps any presumed rights of any particular religious community. I say that as one who is securely rooted in his own religious community.

An individual’s religious beliefs should not be curtailed, or the person punished just because those beliefs are claimed by the person’s prior religious community as being “offensive” or “dishonoring”. That can only happen if the law, God forbid, should recognizes that the group has extra constitutional authority over the individual, and can exercise that claim over its members. That can be only if the law, itself, is subject to the religion that holds the bonded relationship the individual has to that religion, or the ancestral heritage he or she was born into. In the case of Rifqa Bary, Islam. As a nation, do not what to go down that road. Sweet Jesus, Savior, Son of God, protect us from that folly! Holy Mary, Mother of God, defend us in that battle!

Please CAIR/OHIO, since the mainstream media identifies CAIR as the primary advocate for the Muslim community, where is your affirmation regarding the Constitution? Where is your statement that the Constitution must be interpreted and applied without reference to Islam and Islamic Law?

Better yet, where is your joy when a young Muslim man or woman (entering the obligations of adulthood) questions, searches, and settles down to convictions and commitments they discovered on their own? Though at first it may be diffifult to bear, so what if those convictions of hers are contrary to family, clan, ancestral history, and her prior religious community. Again, so what! Though, I am quite able to acknowledge, when a young person walks out and away, that there may be a bit of sadness for the community, this should, in fact, be an occasion of great joy: for the one entering adulthood has not walked away from religion as such, but has found and accepted the way GOD HAS CHOSEN TO BRING HIM OR HER TO HIMSELF.

So, where is your joy for Rifqa Bary?

If Allah is truly compassionate and merciful one would think Allah himself would be rejoicing at Rifqa Bary’s exercise of liberty to embrace God’s invitation. He would be dancing a jig with Archangel Gabriel knowing Rifqa heard His invitation and gave herself to Him utterly. And, if that invitation comes through Jesus Christ her Savior? So, again, so what? It is no business of yours.

Rifqa Bary’s First Amendment rights is what is at stake in this case, in that Florida courtroom. This case, the story of her conversion and act of flight, could become a watershed moment in American constitutional history. Let it be, pray God may it be so.

So my prayer for you. May Allah give you the truest of compassion and mercy, which is witnessed only when you extend it to others. Be, for America, a testimony of that compassion by offering its hand to Rifqa Bary.

Thank you.

OPEN LETTER TO THE MUSLIM COMMUNITY REGARDING RIFQA BARY

Are you taking action to defend Rifqa Bary’s right to leave Islam?

It looks like not. If so, please inform the public.

In the case of Rifqa Bary there is only one fundamental question. Here, we state it in several ways – as variations, so to speak, on a foundational theme.

Are you saying, by your refusal to stand up for her, that, in America, there should be no such protection, for either a minor or an adult? That any presumed claim that the religious community has over the individual trumps the thoughts and actions of the individual person? That the liberties of those thoughts and actions must be denied if they offend or contradict those of the religious or cultural community?

Are you saying, by your refusal to stand up for her, that, in America, the courts should decide against the individual person (and for the religious community) if that person’s thoughts, beliefs, or actions, contradict the community’s self-understanding?

Is this especially so in the case of one who (acting upon his or her constitutional rights) decides to leave the community? Should the courts compel that individual to reenter the community and adhere to its doctrines and behaviors? In deciding the fate of such an individual person (minor or adult), should the courts give preferential consideration to the community’s current or prior claim upon that individual’s thoughts and behaviors (based on the “privileged” concept that an individual’s fundamental identity is group/community based?

If the individual’s thoughts or actions give offense to that community’s self-understanding (especially those of the leave-taker), should the court compel the defendant to renounce those contradictory beliefs and conform to the community’s self-understanding?

Are you saying, by your refusal to stand for her, that Rifqa Bary’s primary (if not only) identity is the religion handed to her by family, clan, ancestral history, or the wider Muslim community? If this notion is fundamentally foundational to who Rifqa Bary is, are you claiming that no court or state action (no other outside influence) has the legal or moral right to separate her from it; that she, herself, has no recourse or liberty to do so?

What’s to be drawn from all this?

Does this mean that Islam has a weak (if not non-existent) understanding of individual personal identity? In short, that the religion lacks a true philosophy of being.

If that is the case, it certainly, for me, answers some outstanding questions. For without such a philosophy (which has existed in the West since Aristotle, via Augustine, Aquinas, and beautifully crafted in the Anglo-American experience) law is orphaned to become whimsical, arbitrary, with nothing better to do than to tease the temptation of totalitarianism.

The West, no surprise, has its own sad history of disregarding that philosophy. It can ill afford the upheaval of integrating an alien self-understanding that cannot or will not yield to the tested wisdom of its civilizing philosophy.

Though she may not be able to articulate it, it is this hard-earned glory that Rifqa Bary is resting against, and trusting to shelter her.

Rifqa Bary, by the witness of her convictions – even through her act of flight – stands squarely upon the wisdom and protection of this tradition. Her sense of self is rooted within it. No family, no clan, no ancestral history, no community, has the legal or moral right to uproot this young lady.

So what is CAIR, and the Muslim community, doing to assist Rifqa Bary in staying put in the ground she has chosen (rooted and nurtured) so she can blossom into the beautiful woman of God’s heart’s desire?

_________________________________________________

In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful, why are you not defending this girl’s right to convert out of Islam?

Rifqa Bary is a most loved, particular friend of God. She carries, as we all do, His image within her which no man, no COMMUNITY, no STATE, no CLAN or FAMILY, can possess or rule. This image of God, which she expresses as her love and loyalty to Jesus Christ, is off limits to others; it cannot be enslaved to the rule and dictates of her family, the Islamic Community, or the State.

God found Rifqa Bary through his Son, Jesus Christ. In finding her God brought her to Himself. This is her deepest identity: not her family, not the Islamic Community. Standing before this the State, through its courts, must remain silent – except to affirm her constitutional right to find and practice matters of the heart and soul as she is called. That affirmation extends to protecting her from family or communities that seek to infringe upon that exercise.

Regarding mattes of religion, when weighing the issues involved in the conflict of religious communities and individual persons, the individual has the constitutional protection. (This is not skirting the pivotal truth that American society – including its Constitution – is founded on Judaic-Christian underpinnings. That is simply a discussion for another time.)

Related to this, the Constitution does not acknowledge any legal or moral notion that one is somehow “born” into a religion. Is the Muslim community in America seeking to change this fundamental constitutional understanding? Is the Muslim community under compulsion to do so anyway because such a notion is foundational to Islam itself? Does that explain the silence?

This is an important question. It goes to the heart of the Rifqa Bary case. Answer please. An informed debate with Robert Spencer of Jihad Watch would satisfy me.

So, what’s up? Why the silence? What’s wrong with coming to the aid of one who found Islam wanting and left it under threat to her life? Why the sitting on of hands? Why are you not bearing down on the powers that be in Ohio and Florida to do the right thing? Why are you not filling court briefs in support of Rifqa Bary’s emancipation?

I have followed these so-called apostasy cases in America and abroad since 9/11. All these years I have waited for that definitive Muslim voice to state firmly (without self-protecting deception) that Islam has no objection to any man, woman, or child, walking away from the religion; that ultimately Islam (as a society, as a political religion) cannot, should not, rule the hearts (or bodies) of men, which belong to God only.

The absence of that voice makes me wonder. Makes me wonder about much. Is the Muslim community seeking to change America’s constitution, making it an offense, under law, for an individual (minor or adult) to leave Islam? To make evangelizing Muslims illegal? I’ll state it that frankly. Maybe Islam in America is on that course. I don’t know; you tell me. All I know, something’s in the air. Hearing a few Methodists, a couple of Jesuits, and some J-Street Jews talk about not giving a damn – I am beginning to be righteously fearful.

Back to Rifqa.

In this particular apostasy case of Rifqa Bary’s (yes, that is what it is) why the damning silence?

Does the honor of any family clan or community of believers rank higher in the loves of God than this young lady? That is not the American way.

If so, than damn family honor. Damn the community, any community that requires for its self-identity the smashing of underfoot.

Come out, come out, from wherever you are. Stand up for the weak, the particular, the voice of the one lamb so loved by God.

God is truly compassionate, merciful. But is Allah? Show me. Exhibit it by extending compassion and mercy to Rifqa. Islam will survive this young woman’s leaving it. Or is Islam so weak, so unsure of itself, that to stand tall it can only do so on top of what it has smashed down?

If that is not Islam, if I have it all wrong, then do the courageous thing – stand tall and defend the legal, moral, and spiritual right of apostasy in America. Yes, the legal right and (too often these days) the moral duty to apostatize. To exercise the right of apostasy goes to the heart of liberty. It, oddly, touches upon who we are as Americans.

Stephen Golay

Aug 23, 2009 - 6:26 pm 46. Steynian 376 « Free Canuckistan!:

[...] FREEDOM of Religion: A Precious American Right, an Islamic Capital Crime …. [...]

Aug 24, 2009 - 12:10 pm 47. Rob:

Way to misdirect Moho. Honor killings and killings of apostates are not considered murder in Muslim countries and so are not counted. You are a very dishonest individual.

Aug 26, 2009 - 4:20 am 48. Tajudeen Ade-Jamiu:

Most of the contributors to this topic and you that posted it are totally overwhelmed by the Western World, most especially the assumed freedom country (U.S.) against what Islam or a Muslim stands for. Most of the time, there is misrepresentation in the true meaning of Islam by people who solely does not have any faith. This is a clear manifestation, going by the response giving by all the contributors so far. The population of muslim in the whole world to date is around 1.66 billions going by CIA fact sheet, Holt, Rinehart/Winston and so on. This is even greater, according to Islamic sources data that put the population around 1.826 billions. Now, here is my question, why do people in the West with vague idea and understanding about what Islam stand for always and I mean always put the Arabs world in conflict with Islam world? Islam and Christianity, the two predominant world religions came from Middle East but I have never hear these sets of people attributing christianity to the Middle Easterners. The whole Arab population according to IPR Strategic Business Information Database of 2008 is 334.8 millions which is around 20% of the whole muslim world. The honor killing is peculiar to the Middle Easterners and some asians and not the Islamic world and therefore does not represent Islam. Islam forbids killing of innocent people regardless of race, color or religion. The Prophet of Islam at one time was in a meeting with the christian and it was time for them to perform their worship, the Prophet asked them to make their worship in the Mosque, this shows the tolerance and respect the religion of Islam has for other religions that believe in the worshipping of one God. The culture of the Arabs sometimes reflects in their relationship to the rest of the world regardless of religion and this to my own understanding is what is making people to think it is the religion of Islam that is hostile to the people that do not share their faith. There is no compulsion in Islam but that does not mean I should not guide my child who is in the process of learning to know the right from the left, correct my child if there is need for it before the age of adolescent. Islam commands justice, the doing of good to kit and kin and forbids injustice of any sort or the killing of innocent soul. Islam also enjoin moderation in all aspects of its form. People do err in their faith by going too far beyond the teachings and practices of any religion but Islam should not be single out. A muslim parent is accountable for his/her underage child or children until maturity. Sometimes, the emotional feelings of people toward their children do affects their judgement when it comes to dealing with issues like this, and this is present not only in Islam.

Aug 29, 2009 - 10:29 am

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