41 Comments

1. George Jochnowitz:

I guess we should be glad that the media are now ready to give Tissy her 15 minutes of fame. If the informatioon is better known, it may be possible that something can be done about other cases. Is there a way to get this information to the Florida court that is considering the case of Rifqa Bary?

Sep 18, 2009 - 9:19 am 2. Dallas: Mother Of Slain Girls Wants Justice For Daughters — Amina and Sara Said in “Honor Killing” :: Responsible for Equality And Liberty (R.E.A.L.):

[...] Phyllis Chesler: “Mother of Dead Dallas Girls Calls Their Murder An ‘Honor Killing&#8217… Sarah and Amina Said – Killed in Dallas, [...]

Sep 18, 2009 - 11:16 am 3. gail:

Phyllis, thank you so very much for speaking truths about the vague answers Tissie gave to Bud Gillett. He asked great questions and yet, she was very careful not to implicate herself!

The one small victory was her admitting that they were honor murdered; however, to say she did not know the meaning of this…I’ll never believe that! She read about them in pamphlets??? Um, where do you get those pamphlets? No, I told her from the start that this is what happened and she denied it over and over! Now, if you do not know the meaning of something then why do you defend it or, reject this? You cannot, but she did and in a very angry way.

The thing which most hurt was her denial of the sexual abuse! This is on record in Hill County Courthouse! I have read her own deposition as to what Yasser did to these babies…and they were babies at that time! Well, I kept those children the day she went to do this in Hill County and Amina asked me if I knew what her dad did to her and Sarah! I think I will take Amina and Sarah’s words over Tissie’s!

I had to write and thank you for being so insightful in this situation. I believe as you do and that has not been an easy place for me to get too. This girl is my neice,whom I adored as a child, but all must be held accountable when something this tragic occurs!

Thank you so very much for speaking truths and helping the light of God to shine into this very dark and cruel situation.

Sep 18, 2009 - 12:02 pm 4. David W. Lincoln:

Phyllis, expecting justice from courts associated with Obama is as foolhardy as a Jew living in the Pale expecting justice from a Russian court.

Home rule, with as little to do with Washington, is the best bet, unless out and out declaration of independence under a U.S. government-in-exile . Because as long as Obama and his cohorts are accomplices to evil, it is better to set expectations low, rather than hope for Obama and crew to make a 180 degree turn.

Sep 18, 2009 - 12:11 pm 5. Jesus is Lord, A Worshipping Christian’s Blog » Blog Archive » Mother of Amina and Sara Said Breaks Her Silence, Wants Justice for the Girls:

[...] Dr. Phyllis Chesler weighs in on the interview: The mother who lured her two young daughters, Sarah and Amina, to their tragic deaths at the hand of their father, Yaser Said, now regrets what she did. Downplaying her own role, or rather, insisting that she is innocent, Patricia (“Tissy”) Owens calls the murder of her daughters an “honor killing” by an “evil man.” Despite years of paternal child abuse at home, “Tissy” now insists that she had no idea that Yaser was actually going to kill the girls whom he sexually and physically abused and whose “too Western” ways enraged him. [...]

Sep 18, 2009 - 1:33 pm 6. MiamaMan:

Finally, unfortunately, Islamic terrorism came to America.

For years, the Jihadis in Kashmir, day in, day out, stopped buses at random, and killed every Hindu in them, the elderly, women, children, the adult males were often beheaded. No wonder they all fled.

But who cares? Those dark Indians, there are too many, anyhow. In Bangladesh, tens of thousands of Hindus have been slaughtered, not a word from the United Nations. The cowards!

Mr. Clinton, officiated over the dirtiest, worst, little nasty war the US has ever engaged in, when he bombed Serbia, reversing centuries of history, and allowing the Wahhabi to set tent in Europe big time, built Mosques, control Muslim Bosnia. Now we start to learn the propaganda behind the massacres, that were on both sides. They should have left the Serbs roam.

Someone mentioned Obama, Obama will give up Afghanistan, finally Ms. Pelosi and her cohort are starting the retreat little by little.

We better prepare to fight these people, this Islamic BS, with all our might.

Sep 18, 2009 - 3:07 pm 7. logos1j1:

The foundational lie of feminism is that women live in a separate moral universe than do men: that they are morally superior and are (for a variety of reasons) to be judged by a different standard. Only from the perspective of this preposterous notion could the question be asked, “…are female collaborators guilty… in the crimes committed by their husbands…?” Only from this perspective could one express shock that women sometimes harm other women, and children. In fact we all live in the same moral universe because there is only one moral universe; in fact women are just as prone to evil as are men. Of course collaborators are always guilty of the crimes of those they aid and abet. Neither their sex nor that of their victims has anything to do with it. It makes no sense to raise the question – unless you are utterly deceived by a preposterous lie like the one that underlies the “philosophy” of feminism. How can you really be surprised when women harm other women and children? It happens all the time! Evil people harm those weaker than themselves – it’s as simple as that.Did you seriously write an entire book trying to answer this question? It makes no difference if you got the right answer. You started from the wrong perspective. There’s only one human race, and women are as much a part of it as men, for good or evil.

Sep 19, 2009 - 5:03 am 8. Lynn:

#7
The truth of feminism is to know that we (women) are equally capable of committing great evil as committing great good.

It was not our doing to be put on a pedestal. How can we compete or live up to something that is not real?

Your lie is not our truth. Your lie is thinking about something in halves. Feminism was not built on a foundation of lies it was built on the foundation of equality. Any corruption in the feminist movement is to be expected because as with men, we are equally capable of the best and the worst.

Sep 19, 2009 - 6:13 am 9. Dobro Utero:

Her son Islam should be arrested and charged with the girl’s murders too. He abetted his dad in murdering the sweet innocent girls. I too want to see justice and support capital punishment for the father and son who committed this barbaric tragedy.

Sep 19, 2009 - 8:55 am 10. Persia:

I don’t know, there could be several “Reasons” for a Woman to deny her Partner is an Abuser: 1) they are in Love and wnat to keep the Dream of their “Cindarella and the Prince”’s Story alike alive, in their Mind, and therefore Everything which exposes (could expose) the bad Sides of the Partner are Sort of surgical removed from their View, from their Brain, from their Will, from their Consciousness; 2) when a Woman is betrayed by her Partner, she often doesn’t immediately think that her Partner did Something Wrong: she rather thinks that the Victim/Abused did Something Wrong, like “attracting” her Partner which, eventually, “fell in the other Woman’s/Girl’s/Child’s (!) Net”. Therefore the first Reaction of the betrayed Woman is to blame the Victim (as she were Guilty!) and not the Abuser (because he is the Tale’s Prince, of Course, and he is the most perfect Partner on Earth, of Course); 3) the self Respect of the Woman depends on the Respect she has of the Man she choosed (or she married), since he represent “a Part of herself”. Therefore it is easier for the Woman to blame the Victim, since it will cause her less Pains than blaming the Abuser (a Sort of Being strictly related to herself!); 4) in the Case of Children, it could be different. The Woman blames the Kids, since they incarnate a Part of the Partner (maybe already perceived as violent and unjust), and blaming them means blaming the Partner.

Maybe it depends on the Pojections that the Woman does on: the Victim; the Children; the Partner; herself; the Society; the Justice; …. She will protect the Thing she rewards as more valuable (for herself to be preserved? For the Society to be preserved? I don’t know). It seems that the Mother of the Girl recently “Honour” killed in Italy (from Morocco), by her Father, protected her Husband (not her Daughter). Women in Italy are splitted: the ones Who blame this Woman (coward, …) and Islam (mysoginist), the other Who blame the Mother’s Blamers (“you don’t understand her!”) and the Islam’s Blamers (“you’re Racist. We are all the same”).

What to say? About the Subject I provided a Link to Phyllis’s Study on domestic Violence compared to “Honour” Crimes – which I hope will be watched -, and about a Text (by Jeffy Imm) on the Battle of Nowadays’ World: Human Rights of Women, Equality and Liberty (where some pretty Islamic Practices were listed, and therefore it will be easier for rethorical Women to aknowledge the very cultural Differences between the free World and the Islamic One. Obviously in the Article are to be found very deep Meditation’s Points on Equality, Liberty, at a very culturally neutral Level).

Thanks to Phyllis for her great and continous Job – informing us and encouraging us to meditate on some psychological Dynamics. Very interesting and useful!

Lovliest Regards.

Sep 19, 2009 - 11:14 am 11. TruthSerum:

Phyllis – another excellent post.

What does this say about the so-called feminists – like Naomi Wolfe – who want to lead women down the path of Islamic subjugation. Isn’t patriarchalism exactly what they (feminists) have been railing about and against for decades?

Are these pseudo feminists so blinded by the Left’s current, trendy penchant for Islam and anti-Semitism that they now embrace the emotional and physical enslavement found in Islam? (and thru the Caliphate – eventually themselves and subsequent female generations)

Clearly, for many, feminism has lost it’s way.

Sep 19, 2009 - 1:01 pm 12. Evil Pundit:

Lynn #8: You are wrong.

Feminism is based on hatred of men. It is a political movement that at its heart blames all men for the misfortunes of all women, and as such it inherently splits the world in two.

Logos #7 is correct — simply asking the question of whether women can be guilty is a revelation of prejudice. Of course they can.

Sep 19, 2009 - 5:18 pm 13. Kipling:

Christians should really consider setting up an underground railroad and a series of safe houses for Muslims who flee their faith, embrace Christianity, and face death for doing so.

Sicily has numerous sex workers who wait along the roads to sell themselves. A couple from a local chapter started a relationship with one of these women and eventually worked out a plan to get her free. She was killed by the sex trafficers as an example to others. The church must stand against such evil and attack it. If the law or the courts promote such injustice then they have lost their legitimacy and with it their authority.

Sep 19, 2009 - 11:15 pm 14. Persia:

Evil Pundit, isn’t it that Feminism was born as Opposition Movement to the Society’s maschilist Asset? (Rethorical Question). May I ask you Something: do a feminist Mother (Feminist) hates her Son (Man)? [If you are a Man, you won't properly be able to answer to this Question, but you can guess the Answer, since you've been a Son; if you are a Maschilist, you will answer to this Question starting from you fixed and unintelligent Point of View, which abusively states Feminists hate Men]. About the Prejudice you’re talking about, it shows your own Prejudices (toward Whom exactely? Phyllis or Women or Whom?): the Article is asking if a Wife/Mother/female Co-worker/female Friend, whose Husband/Partner/male Boss mistreats another – relative or not – Female, is DIRECTLY responsible for this Mistreatment, and if yes, How comes a Woman/Sister/Female will be so cruel toward another “herself”. The Article doesn’t ask if a female Mistreater or Criminal is guilty for her Mistreatement or criminal Actions, whose Answer is rather obvious]. I altogether got the impression, from your very short Sentences, that you take Issues in a very superficial Way, and I wonder Why: a) have you limited intellectual Skills or b) are you a bad intentioned Person?

Sep 20, 2009 - 5:12 am 15. MiamaMan:

So-called feminism is a common subject here. It is a social approach of the very outer core of human behavior, although common, and thus destined to constant conflict and failure.

Many of the women flocking to this “movement” were, and are, frustrated individuals, some sexually frustrated, some lesbians (by the way, there is nothing normal about being homosexual, it is also a cause of conflict and frustration, and prevents you from seeking Truth by its very dynamics).

It would have been nice if the outer model of the universe would have applied to the atom, as was believed for decades by Heisenberg, Pauli, De Broglie, and other great minds, but, contrary to expectations, it did not, but dissolved in a nebula of smaller, and smaller, then different, particles and fields of force. The lower we go, the more the equality, the inner the search, the more the common ground, now we know that particles and antiparticles can travel forward, but also backwards, in time.

A social experiment conducted in the Sri Aurobindo Ashram in Pondicherry in the 1930’s, 1940’s, 1950’s that even continues today, showed that men and women are equal, can be very equal, when the common ground is established at the bottom of the soul (what Sri Aurobindo and the Mother defined as the Psychic Being). Hundreds of men and women worked together, but the objective was spiritual advancement, absorption in the Divine, and dedication of work and fruit of it to Him without expectation of return. Sublimation of the sexual desire and energy into Ojas, Tejas, Tapas. A very important liberation.

In the Godhead, Brahman, the androgynous principle is paramount, but Hindus adore the Mother, Maheshwari, as the womb of Brahman, the creative principle of the universe.

Sri Aurobindo and the Mother postulated the coming of a new species of Supramental Man, where the androgynous principle will also prevail. There so-called feminism will melt away.

Sep 20, 2009 - 6:35 am 16. Evil Pundit:

Persia, I use short sentences because I don’t like to waste words.

And replying to your questions, which are merely insults based on feminist assumptions, would be a waste of words.

Sep 20, 2009 - 2:59 pm 17. BettyBlue:

She’s morally responsible for her aid in this crime, and she should be legally responsible, too.

And she deserves to be alone, for what she’s done.

Sep 20, 2009 - 9:22 pm 18. Lynn:

#12
Maybe you are right and the story of Sarah and Amina is a story of hatred toward men.

Wait a minute… Sarah and Amina were killed by their father.

Two females killed by their male father, his flesh and blood. It was self defense? A hate crime because they female hated him male?

Wait a minute…No…You are wrong.

#15
Equal does not mean the same. Don’t curse us with having to become the same to become equal. Must things all be the same before they can become equal? No. Stop thinking with your organs.

Feminism is what it is. The thought that to be female is of equal standing as to be male. Both different yet both equal. It does not require hatred, it does not require androgyny, or anything else but what is truth. Equality.

Geez, you’d think it would be a relief to have a partner in life to share life’s ups and downs. Why the hell do people have to push someone down to make themselves appear higher. BS

Sep 21, 2009 - 6:45 am 19. Shoshana Rubin:

Of course this mother is guilty. She enabled her criminal husband. How could she not be guilty?

If we continue to allow Muslims from foreign countries to immigrate here, both parents should have to sign a Federal document stating they are against one murdering their own children for suicide-bombers, sex slaves or ANY other reason, and they’re aware they are committing felonies if they decide to kill their own children. No exceptions.

Sep 21, 2009 - 10:13 am 20. toritto:

Re: Riqfa Bary – she is already 17 years old. If her attorney here in Florida can create delays in procedure she will be 18 soon enough and won’t have to go home if she doesn’t want to…..She can also apply for emancipation from her parents I believe – which again will create obstacles and delays.

Sep 21, 2009 - 10:13 am 21. logos1j1:

18
You are not correctly discerning anyone’s arguments and as a result your responses are worse than meaningless. That is why I initially did not respond to your objections to my first entry. You need to pay attention to what you are reading and stop superimposing your own beliefs and emotions. To wit: I never said anything about dualism (I believe that’s what you meant when you referenced “thinking…in halves”.) To the extent that what I said touched on the subject, it was a rejection of it. Your interpretation (if it could be called even that) was almost the exact opposite of what I said. 15 did not say women are the same as men (although some branches of feminism have said exactly that), only that these differences become meaningless on higher spiritual planes. (Christianity, my religion, agrees here: cf. Matthew 22:30). Your misconstruction of 12 is so profound I don’t even know where to begin. Set your emotions and ideology aside for a moment and try to understand what a person is saying before you respond.

Sep 21, 2009 - 10:35 am 22. Barb:

I don’t think anyone can doubt that woman can do evil things and hurt others, but realistically, we must admit that more men do evil deeds than women. My heart breaks for the women of the world who are unable to do the things that any person should be allowed to do without fear.

Sep 21, 2009 - 10:40 am 23. Dymphna:

This family’s disintegration may have been aided and abetted by a tribal system of family honor and shame, but I don’t think the father’s obvious mental condition originated in Islam, as harmful as its rules re women are.

And given that the girls were sexually and physically abused by him, I don’t think this rises to the level of “honor” killing. Hadn’t thought about it before, but there is indeed a lower level of brutality against daughters, and that is dishonoring them repeatedly yourself and then killing them when they start to grow up and rebel.

Unfortunately, through my work with battered women I’ve known American girls and women who’ve been through similar situations. In the worst cases, there was no religious affiliation at all.

One in particular has haunted me. The guy horribly sexually abused all three daughters and the mother was complicit in this – e.g., sometimes held the camera for him.

The 15 year-old ran away and sought shelter. She managed to remain free and she turned her father in. The district attorney didn’t press charges but the Air Force (he was on active duty) sure did. He was given a dishonorable discharge, lost his benefits & pension, etc.

This guy always claimed he’d kill the girl for what she had done to him so she remained where he couldn’t find her for many, many years.

This family sounds similar, with just a think skin of Islam thrown over it. I think it’s very important to distinguish between what rises out of Islam’s dysfunctional cruelty and the twisted minds of individuals who see their children as objects.

A forensic psychiatrist I know, who did volunteer work at a local prison until he burned out, guesstimated to me that perhaps as many as 90% of incarcerated males he treated had been physically and sexually abused as young children.

At a conference on SIDS (Sudden Infant Death Syndrome), I met the director of whatever agency in NYC that was responsible for investigating these deaths. I’ve forgotten his name now but I was deeply affected by his information (this was back in the early ’90s). He said that the investigation agency had been set up because so many of these babies had really been shaken to death, often by mothers’ boyfriends. He also made the claim that *any* preverbal children placed in those large daycare facilities in NYC were almost certain to be physically and/or sexually abused.

IOW, as much as our blog is devoted to pushing Islam back into its own bloody borders, I fear that we are overlooking our own horrible cultural sink in the West…for which we can thank socialism and the welfare system for creating and maintaining.

Thank you, LBJ and your Dem cronies down the generations: just to maintain your own power, you helped destroy marriage among the poor and you left the kids vulnerable to attack.

Sep 21, 2009 - 11:05 am 24. Eldy:

The girls would of never got killed if their mother would of told them to stay away. Her motherly instinct, to protect ones children above and beyond everything else must of kicked in at one point and she choose to glorify her husband fanatical religious belief in exchange of her children life.

Sep 21, 2009 - 12:16 pm 25. Suri:

WHAT HONOR? WHOSE HONOR? Murder shows no honor. Murduring the defenseless has no honor.

Sep 21, 2009 - 1:26 pm 26. Gail:

WoW! I cannot believe some of these comments! Look, Amina and Sarah’s biggest crime was to start thinking for themselves! This independant thinking was based upon facts which they experienced everyday! They were very intelligent and yet, fear kept them down.

I want to make a HUGE point here. The facts are: the muslim girls are NOT allowed to think for themselves as they are to only obey and follow the beliefs set forth by the males in the family.
Muslim girls are not allowed to fall in love and marry. This is all arranged for them!
Female muslim women are told how to dress, behave and if these rules are broken…it is either a punishment or death.
These women of all ages are always under the scrutiny of the men in the family!
They have very few rights…no expressing opinions if they differ from the mens…no choices in major decisions…no choice in their future as it is deemed by others…no freedom to be and feel whole and worthwhile…in all the cases I have researched, the mother of a disobedient female child usually agrees with the punishment her husband sets forth. Have you heard of a muslim woman taking her daughter to the police for safety? I haven’t! Including my neice!

I have only listed a few “rules” placed on the females in a radical muslim household. You folks talk about feminism and yet, muslim women have not a clue about this ideology! If they do then I assure you that punishment will follow. It’s all about controlling these women with barbaric and cruel actions!

Please understand that the cruelty is kept very quiet and denied if confronted! Just as Tissy denied the sexual abuse! This alone tells me she is still in that mindset and has another agenda for speaking out at this late date!

If Rifqa is sent back to her family in Ohio, they will kill her! It may not be by the hand of her father, mother or, brother; however, my grand neices were scared to death of their uncles too! In fact, I have been told that Amina got a phone call from one of her uncles stating that if she did not straighten up, he would come to Texas and take care of her himself! So, you see, this entire structure is based upon ideologies and not familia love!

I assure you that Rifqa’s parents do not want her back out of love! They want her back because she thought for herself! This girl was allowed to assimilate best she could, like Sarah and Amina! However, the parents do NOT assimilate and if there are signs of growth outside religious and cultural mindsets, they must pay! In Amina and Sarah’s case, it meant they had to die and I feel like this is why Rifqa’s parents are fighting to get her back. I can say this with assurance, had my neices been able to run, Yaser and his family would have tracked them down and eventually would have killed them. This is how important it is to them to keep thier women brain dead and zombies!

I ask that everyone pray or do what you can to keep Rifqa from being returned to a certain death! This young woman has already lost one of her eyes…that’s more than enough!! May God open the eyes to all before many many more females are killed on US soil.

I suppose the hardest thing for me is why aren’t these girls protected under our Constitution? Amina and Sarah were 1/2 American and yet, their blood was shed for trying to live like an American teen. In as much, the courts much forget muslim traditions and culture as they chose to live here! If you live here then you must assimilate! Not the muslims, they want us to assimilate to thier ways and that will never happen with me! Rifqa assimilated and it has cost her too much already! Dear God! When are we going to stop being so politically correct and see that we are doing ourselves no favor by trying to be civil with barbaric mindsets! Assimilate or, stop killing children because they think for themselves! May God have mercy on all the Amina’s, Sarah’s and Rifqa’s in this nation. Home of the “free.”

Sep 21, 2009 - 1:30 pm 27. Lynn:

logos1j1:
The foundational lie of feminism…

Your generalizations about feminism is not only astounding, but an example of how short a journey your mind takes when thinking.

You are speaking as if with great authority when saying that feminism denies woman are capable of committing evil. That is an untruth in itself. There are women who may deny that the females are equally as capable of evil, but feminism at it’s foundation means that females are on equal standing with males.

Since this is a discussion about here on earth, the only thing I will say is that in my opinion Jesus never emphasized the moral or spiritual superiority of his followers, men or women. I think it was Paul who later re-introduced the thinking of spiritual and moral inferiorty and, contrary to what you write, he seemed to imply that men were closer to God and therefore farther from good.

It seems to me that without the feminine and the masculine, humans would still find a way to push one down to raise up another. It’s not just about the organs.

Isn’t there a Jewish prayer thanking G_d they were men? Would it be bad for women to thank God they were woman. No. It’s not hate.

Sep 21, 2009 - 1:41 pm 28. Tanstaafl:

Bravo, Gail! Islam is a misogynistic religion. Just read the Qur’an.

Sep 21, 2009 - 1:54 pm 29. Dymphna:

@Gail-

I suppose the hardest thing for me is why aren’t these girls protected under our Constitution?

We say we protect children but we don’t. This girl, who managed to run, should have been the one to decide her own situation, not a police report.

Neither Ohio nor Florida wants jurisdiction over her because of the costs involved for either state agency. Foster care children of her age have to be prepared with Independent Living Skills programs, foster care payments, etc. I’ll bet the county agency that would have to assume guardianship in FL is already out of money.

The federal govt has passed burdensome laws on the states re foster care. Expensive, loaded with duplicate paperwork and court appearances, etc. They don’t reimburse the localities or states for much of it. That’s why the average foster care worker lasts less than two years. They burn out over lack of resources for kids who really need help.

I hope that what is really behind their foot-dragging is a stalling strategy until she turns 18 and ages out of the whole mess. Then she’s free. As long as the legal entanglements continue, she’s safe. They’re obviously having to pay for *some* foster care but they haven’t assumed guardianship so they can contain those expenses.

It really is all about bureaucracy. And that bureaucracy can twist around and punish parents who don’t deserve it, either. The kids entrapped in that kind of mess don’t get any say at all.

The whole thing is gamed.

Sep 21, 2009 - 2:41 pm 30. logos1j1:

27
Read the main article again: I made no generalizations. I addressed a specific assumption which was revealed in the articulation of the main focus of the article and apparently (in my understanding) Ms. Chesler’s latest book: that women are to be judged by their own moral coda and we need to discover (or decide?) just what that is. Secondarily, I pointed out that feminism historically has held women to be morally superior to men. This, too, is supported by the article’s main assumption and is frankly stated by 22. These are not assumptions on my part nor generalizations – they are simply accurate restatements of two of feminism’s oldest and most fundamental tenets. And those tenets are demonstrably false; thus feminism is based on lies and is a lie. You and I are actually in agreement about the spiritual and moral equality of men and women, but since this is in direct contradiction to feminism and you consider yourself a feminist you are shadow-boxing me on the subject. Your issue here (sorry to say) is with your chosen ideology, not with me.

You are quite right about Christ’s teachings insofar as spirituality and morality are concerned.

If you wish to bring Paul’s (or someone else’s) teachings into the discussion you need to quote the appropriate scriptural passages (as I did) otherwise it carries no weight and I cannot respond because I don’t know what you’re refering to.

Without the feminine and masculine there wouldn’t be any humans.

I’m not Jewish. And if there is such a prayer it isn’t scriptural so it would hold no authority for either Jews or Christians. And again, there’s no reference.

Sep 21, 2009 - 2:43 pm 31. Dymphna:

BTW, if the state agencies involved were really sincere, they’d be helping her explore the avenue of “emancipated adolescent”. She’s old enough, her school record and lack of drugs would make her a good candidate. I have helped more than one teen do just that. It’s emotionally hard for them since there is loyalty toward the parents they are defending against and are afraid of.

Human nature is strange: the more severe the abuse, the stronger the bond, negative as that connection may be. One teenager said, “even if my dad was dead, they couldn’t bury him deep enough for me to feel safe. It would always feel like he could dig up the earth and come after me”.

In another case, a woman who killed her abuser-husband by shooting him six times, following him down the hall as he tried to flee (he’d broken in) said that she was in a state of terror and didn’t think that he *could* be killed.

She was put on trial because of the bullet holes in his back. The judge dismissed it before the defense could even present its side. He knew she’d acted reasonably given her history.

Which didn’t prevent her from daily visits to his grave to apologize.

That is the strength of negative bonds. And yes, she did move beyond the “visit” stage and was able to resume her life, but she still suffered from panic attacks last time I saw her.

Rifqa is going to be a prisoner of sorts even after she’s “free”.

Sep 21, 2009 - 2:53 pm 32. Lynn:

#30

He (Paul) seemed to imply that men were closer to God so therefore closer to good. He taught that women were further from God. After beginning his ministry in full sisterhood with fellow Christian women, he seems to advance to a state of suppressing them and calling for their subjugation. You will have to read for yourself and decide for yourself.

1 Corinthians 11:5-10 pertains to why the women should cover their head.

1 Corinthians 11:7-9 Says the man is the glory of God, the woman the glory of man.

1 Corinthians 14:33-34 Let your women keep silence in the churches…but they are commanded to be under obedience…

1 Timothy 2:11-14 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to unsurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

It was a generalization you made and a mistake in my opinion. It seems to me Ms. Chesler is asking opinions and thoughts not condoning the behavior of the women who “go along” with the men who kill or abuse the young women and children. It seems to me that you should re-read the article and perhaps the book because I absolutely do not get any indication that she condones or excuses the behavior of the mothers in these cases, or expects a different moral code because they are female.

Sep 21, 2009 - 5:28 pm 33. Persia:

MiamaMan, your Assumptions on Feminism, right while you are mentioning Sri Aurobindo and The Mother, too, show how much inconsistent you are, and how much maschilist you are. Of course every human Being (and not just) has passive (so called “feminine”) and active (so called “masculine”) Sides, which are both to be developed (but which are still almost undeveloped – maybe because they are still misunderstood -), but this means not that human Societies are based on unjust Principles, like the One which considers Men superior as Women! If you really and verily understood Aurobindo’s and Mother’s Words, and their (essential) Message, you wouldn’t state what you actually did about Feminists (allegedly mental diseased, or sexually self-oriented, and else). Feminism has its own Reason to be, in Opposition to a Society merely based on Maschilism (Feminism doesn’t exist just to exist: it exsists in Order to well-balancing Society, and to promote the Concept and the essential Message forwarded by People like Sri A. and The M.). Possible that One who appearently claim to be a Promoter of Sri Aurobindo and The Mother’s Message, is actually so ignorant about it and its Meaning?! I am shocked: even Spirituality is getting hijacked by Ignorance. God save us! [In these Cases, believing in the Existance of an almighty God – which could solve OUR HUMAN Problems, which we should solve by oursleves – somehow temporarly helps ….)

Evil Pundit: you are that typical Subject, which is usually socialist, which detected “a Couple” of Words, which he/she will use to offend Others (so the Use of these Words is meant). I might imagine which other Words are ready in your Mouth (while discussing), or in your Fingers (while using the Keyboard), to be – meaninglessly – “spit” on Others’ Face, like if they were Weapons. Among them there certainly could be: Islamophobic, Racist, Nazi, Fascist, …. In this Case you fullfilled yourself by shooting me with a “Feminist”. Puah.

Sep 22, 2009 - 3:17 am 34. The New Agenda » Blog Archive » Dallas Honor Killings: Yes, A Women’s Issue:

[...] Thanks to Phyllis Chesler for her article Mother of Dead Dallas Girls Calls Their Murder An “Honor Killing” [...]

Sep 22, 2009 - 4:02 am 35. Barb:

#30 Perhaps I do not know about feminism because I have never thought it to be about women being morally superior to men. I always thought it to be about women having the same opportunities in life as men. I was simply stating a fact when I said that men do commit more crimes against other people than women do. I don’t know why? Testosterone?

Sep 22, 2009 - 6:29 am 36. MiamaMan:

33. Persia:

I bow at your feet!

No comments.

Sep 22, 2009 - 3:12 pm 37. logos1j1:

32
The scriptures noted to not speak of women’s inferiority in spirituality or morality, only in authority here on earth: i.e. wives are subject to their husbands (as opposed to women being subject to men) and the church is to be led and instructed by men. Many have mistaken a tendency to abuse power (due to fallen human nature) with an unjust authority structure. Feminism is based, in part, on this misconstruction. 1 Corinthians 11:5-10 speaks of the angels in connection with the injunction because as perfect beings they acknowledge without question and obey the authority structure of the universe; they should be respected as our protectors in spiritual warfare and their example should be followed. In that day and age the head covering was an appropriate sign of submission. There are other authority structures outlined as well, notably children to parents, citizens to the civil authorities and everyone to Christ.

35
Suffragism accomplished equality for women in voting, holding political office and divorce. It then ended (at least in Western societies) because it had accomplished its goal. Feminism rose to prominence and continued precisely because it was not about this. The core prejudice of feminism apparently escaped your conscious thought by sublimation only; you obviously believe firmly the feminist tenet described above (multiple times by parties on both sides) that women are morally superior to men. But you said nothing about crimes in 22; your unconscious change in subject shows that you are not really thinking about these things, you are emoting. In 22 you spoke of “evil deeds” which is the correct category for our discussion. Crimes are deeds which (whether evil or not) are sanctioned by civil authorities. Many evil deeds – such as abortion – do not fall into this category. Many that do are not prosecuted, or not vigorously even when they are. Our legal codes treads lightly on women for a variety of reasons, and this was perhaps even more prevalent in our patriarchal past than now. For example: mothers are far more likely to kill their children than men. Leaving aside prenatal murder for the moment, they are also far less likely to be prosecuted; even when they are the sentences are far, far less than similar sentences for men. Women who falsely accuse rape are virtually never prosecuted. (About 30% of men convicted due to “eye witness” testimony (often of the purported victim) are proven innocent now by DNA evidence- cf The Innocence Project and the now infamous Duke rape case.) Women who murder their husbands are often able to pass themselves off as victims – again, the lie that they should be judged by a different standard. In fact, in our society women who commit evil deeds are very often able to justify or mitigate them in a variety of disingenuous ways, and this is enabled both by feminism and classic patriarchal protectionism, thus crime statistics are inherently skewed; and anyway, as I said, it is the wrong category when discussing true morality.

A (perhaps) interesting note: men in prisons have been shown to have lower testosterone levels than the general population. Perhaps this is evidence that feminization is the problem rather than that testosterone is the elixir of evil. This is further evidenced by their rampant homosexual behavior which is not at all a result of sexual frustration but only of deep moral depravity – and feminizatization.

Sep 22, 2009 - 6:50 pm 38. Lynn:

So when Jesus perfected the word, he was not quite clear enough and Paul had to elaborate. Yes of course, men perfecting the Word of God.

At one time maestro, women prostitute’s covered their heads and living in a desert climate caused men and women to cover their heads and faces.

Didn’t you hear Jesus say that beloved G_d knows what’s in our hearts and is not impressed with outward signs of piety? No, your didn’t.

The last sentences of your comments surely do show what is plain to know. Feminism is not hatred toward men, nor is it’s foundation based on a lie, but has only served to show your hatred and lies.

Men and children? So many times in the Bible the prophets have spoken that G_d will turn man’s eyes to their children, and you speak as if your love for your children comes naturally from your human flesh and blood, when it is really the blessing of G_d that even made you consider them.

I will give praise to G_d because he surely turned Paul’s curse into a blessing for woman. Sometimes when forced to be silent and listen, when one finally speaks, one speaks with authority after absorbing all the wisdom of G_d and also all the nonsense spewed by the human haters of the feminine.

You speak as if you have authority yourself as a male to resist evil therefore you have the authority to speak of what is G_d’s decision in the hierarchy of the blessed. Keep reading.

If you want to counter Ms. Chesler’s stories with stories of your own emphasizing woman’s inhumanity to men and woman and children, please feel free, yet do not insinuate hers are any less true or deserving of note.

Be careful, often what one hates the most becomes one’s obsession and downfall. Don’t immerse yourself too much in perversion or you could find yourself drowning in it and taking on it’s character.

Sep 23, 2009 - 8:28 am 39. Barb:

Logos, I do not believe that women kill their own children more often than men. And when I spoke of crimes, I was not talking about what any government considers a crime. I do not think it is better to be a man or a woman, but to be an honest and ethical person. I am appalled when I see women teachers getting away with a slap on the wrist when a man in the same situation would be charged with rape. As far as men in prison having lower testosterone levels than men out of prison, if you say so. However, they turn to homosexuality because there are no women around, not because they are more like women. ::shudder::

Sep 23, 2009 - 10:29 am 40. logos1j1:

38
Yes, that’s right: Christ left many things to be done and taught by His apostles (John 14:12). Not all of what He did and taught was written down (John 20:30-31) only those things that were necessary. He Himself wrote nothing down so all of this was left to the apostles.

Paul didn’t curse women.

But now we have come rather far afield from the central point of the article above and my response to it which was that there is only one moral code for all, whether men or women, and to believe otherwise is to believe a lie and to be morally bankrupt – for then you are left always trying to discover or decide what is right for whom – and that feminism is based, in part, on this lie and therefore is a lie.

39
As far as mothers killing their children, look in to the sociological and psychological research not the criminal statistics which are skewed quite badly as I said. I’m glad to hear that you don’t allow for the kind of disingenuity currently practiced in our courts. Homosexuality in prisons is indeed due to depravity and feminization not the lack of women. Monks, priests, nuns separate themselves from the opposite sex and practice celibacy, and many others practice celibacy, without descending into perversion. This is not how one becomes homosexual. (I’m not saying I know how this happens, only that I know one way it does not happen, and this is not a contradiction.) I don’t think any clinical research will support your position.

I did not say that the men in question were “more like women.” I said they were feminized. If you feminize a man you do not get a man who is more like a woman, you get a deformed perversity. The inverse, it follows, is also true. Another foundational lie of feminism is that an androgynous “personality” can be achieved because our “genders” are only superimposed by “patriarchal” socialization. Thus the idea that you can and should feminize boys and masculinize girls to achieve a gender-neutral society. So sterilize the womb, mock motherhood, demonize men who are actually (shock and appall!) masculine, destroy the nuclear family by any and every means, make marriage out to be slavery, etc. etc. This idiocy is destroying our society and will destroy itself – falsehood cannot sustain itself. God doesn’t suffer fools. All of this is demonstrably false and in fact it takes a delusional personality to believe any of it.

Sep 24, 2009 - 6:23 pm 41. Crawfish Boil:

Most definitely parents should be held accountable when another spouse murders or hurts a child. If the parent knows about it, and doesn’t defend their child, their FLESH AND BLOOD, absolutely they are responsible for that child abuse. I think the a lesser extent than the parent that does the actual offense, but punishable none the less. I think this woman should be held accountable for luring her daughters back home when they ran away from a dangerous situation. She is just as bad as he is!

Sep 26, 2009 - 12:45 pm

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