40 Comments

1. George Jochnowitz:

Someone in the mainstream media ought to be able to figure out that the proper thing to do in response to Qadaffi’s visit to the U.S. is to interview Nonie Darwish on prime time TV.

Sep 22, 2009 - 11:32 am 2. Nonie Darwish Under Fire Today. -Phyllis Chesler :: International Free Press Society:

[...] She founds a new organization: Former Muslims United [...]

Sep 22, 2009 - 11:56 am 3. Pajamas Media » Nonie Darwish Under Fire Today:

[...] Read the rest of the story here. [...]

Sep 22, 2009 - 12:15 pm 4. Randy:

For the first time, I’m acutely aware of Ramadan. I’m not a Muslim – I’m a Methodist. I’m also a private investigator who spent Ramadan working on a case with law enforcement from Texas, New York, Georgia and the FBI.
I’ve had opportunity to interact with the Muslim community in Atlanta and observe Muslims as they come and go from several of the three dozen mosques in metro Atlanta – the largest of the mosques being Al-Farooq Masjid, a $10 million edifice with a 65-foot dome over the main prayer hall.
I want it made clear – I have seen those who leave this mosque with a smile and a kind word. They wish to keep their religion as they see fit and wish to harm no one. But I’ve also seen many more with anger and contempt in their eyes and with no regard for interacting with anyone other than another Muslim, usually a radical. And this isn’t just during Ramadan – it has become a way of life. Many want to kill non-Muslims.

Sep 22, 2009 - 12:54 pm 5. Norman Simms:

Phyllis

You are one of the very few people with any voice and influence in the West who recognizes that we are at war–the clash of civilization against barbarism–and that much of that war is carried out from within, the fifth column of appeasniks, self-haters and deniers.

Norman

Sep 22, 2009 - 1:02 pm 6. Suzanne Pomeranz:

Phyllis – Nonie is great and should be listened to, and I’m glad you’ve been following her closely. But just a correction – she IS Egyptian but NOT “Palestinian”.

Sep 22, 2009 - 1:14 pm 7. David W. Lincoln:

The deformed souls who do not want to admit the necessity of property rights of everyone protected all the time, so that countries could
advance.

So, what they do is go after those who say these
things. Giving us yet another example of a good
deed never goes unpunished.

Sep 22, 2009 - 1:18 pm 8. Evil Pundit:

Freedom of speech and religion should be supported by everyone. This case shows that mainstream academics are no longer the defenders of either.

Sep 22, 2009 - 4:49 pm 9. Dr McCosker:

This is excellent news, Dr Chesler. God bless them all – all those brave, brave souls who have dared to defect from Islam and defy the threat of death – Ibn Warraq, Nonie Darwish, Wafa Sultan, tiny little Rifqa – God bless them! I will pray for them.

Dr Chesler – there is just one MP in the Australian Federal Parliament who understands about the Law of Apostasy in Islam: what it is and what it does and that it still hangs over people’s heads today. How do I know? – because he actually gave a speech on the topic – IN PARLIAMENT. I will forward the link for this article to him as soon as I can.

Sep 22, 2009 - 7:20 pm 10. Doug:

I would love to read your article but the pajamastv ad and the dex ad cuts the last third of the article off. Nice.

Sep 22, 2009 - 7:45 pm 11. Chileno:

Here’s a link to an interesting article Nonie Darwish wrote in the WSJ regarding Gaza. Her’s is a fascinating point of view you won’t find in the MSM. Admittedly, she has a pro-Israel slant (no surprise, coming from the founder of Arabs for Israel).

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123733224510363157.html

Sep 22, 2009 - 10:30 pm 12. hrimathurs:

It would almost be worth converting to Islam for a few seconds just to become a former Muslim and apostate. Unfortunately, I find it impossible to even fake belief in such utter nonsense as Muhammad’s fairy tales for the time necessary to recite the Shahada..

Sep 23, 2009 - 4:40 am 13. Chileno:

@12 I wouldn’t recommend that! Renouncing Islam is punishable by death by the Quran!

Remember that Islamic radicals consider themselves True Believers, and as such, superior to Infidels.

Following this logic, it makes perfect sense that it is Islam’s destiny to be spread across the world. As superiors, it’s logical to demand their right to worship in our countries, while limiting our right to worship in theirs. It makes sense to call Infidels the sons of dogs and monkeys, because, after all, that is their level relative to a “True” Muslim. If a Muslim converts to some other religion, it is the equivalent of a human taking on the beliefs of dogs and monkeys, and so it’s reasonable to punish this by death. In 2006, when an Afghan apostate’s death sentence sparked international uproar, he was spared …by reason of insanity (i.e. according to them, you’d have to be CRAZY to leave Islam)!

If a Muslim man marries a non-Muslim woman, she is encouraged to convert. If she doesn’t, and they divorce, the man gets to keep the kids. You wouldn’t leave children to the care of a dog, would you? If a non-Muslim man marries a Muslim woman, he MUST convert, or risk death. Remember that for many Muslims, women are little more than property. So it makes sense that a Muslim man could “acquire” a non-Muslim woman, but it would be forbidden for a non-Muslim man to take on a piece of Muslim property.

If a Muslim kills an inferior Infidel, there is concern, but no real uproar, similar to when a driver runs over a dog on the street. But if an Infidel kills a Muslim, there are mass protests and shrieks calling for revenge. It’s almost equal to having a dog kill a man. The logical response? Kill the dog!

Many Muslims do not hold these extreme beliefs. But perhaps out of fear or indifference, or a not-so-secret hate of the West, even those who don’t espouse these beliefs, remain quiet to the excesses perpetrated by those who do. Their silence makes them accomplices to the brutal acts of the extremists.

Sep 23, 2009 - 5:51 am 14. Lynn:

Good news and we need it. I do not want to live on an earth where the believers think their reward will be female sex zombies in heaven. I’d rather female sex zombies remain on earth where regular females can at least show another way.

Sep 23, 2009 - 8:39 am 15. David W. Lincoln:

As long as moderate Muslims, and the more radical ones, sign onto the rejection of all are equal, they can claim they are monotheists all they want, but that doesn’t make the case they are.

In the eyes of a Muslim, someone who is not Muslim can have their property rights violated without restitution. In other words, someone of no faith tradition, or of a different faith tradition, can only count on themselves to provide respect for their property rights. But,
a Muslim can expect his or hers property rights to be respected some of the time.

Now, does this answer how little Muslims have accomplished with their time since the fall of Constantinople, as compared to those whom they relegate second class status (at best) too?

Sep 23, 2009 - 9:14 am 16. Nonie Darwish Under Fire Today | Former Muslims United:

[...] can read the article at its original source here. AKPC_IDS += [...]

Sep 23, 2009 - 11:52 am 17. Evil Pundit:

#14 There are female sex zombies on Earth? Why wasn’t I told?

Sep 23, 2009 - 1:32 pm 18. MiamaMan:

15. David W. Lincoln:

I did not understand your statement:

[As long as moderate Muslims, and the more radical ones, sign onto the rejection of all are equal, they can claim they are monotheists all they want, but that doesn’t make the case they are.]

From a religion point of view, the Muslims are indeed monotheists, as their worship only one god: Allah (mono = one, theon = god). Mohammed they claim as their prophet. Actually, in their rejection of idols and images of worship, they are closer to Christian Protestants. Remember the Taliban destroying those ancient Buddhist monuments in Afghanistan.

The rejection of equality acts independently from monotheism, as they simply believe their religion is the only true one, and all others are inferior and their followers infidels.

Alas, the Muslims allow a special place for “the people of the book” (Jews and Christians), as if acknowledging their debt to the Abrahamic ancestry. Islam is a copycat of the other 2 religions, Heaven only having a few additions, such as the Houris, the heavenly maidens.

Their greatest contempt is saved for the Hindus, whom they fiercely, and wrongly, believe to be polytheist and idol worshippers. As such, no other country on earth has felt the wrath of Islam as India.
Travel in India where the Mughals reigned, and you will find a deafening absence of Hindu temples. Not so in the South, as in Tamil Nadu, for example. The Muslims destroyed all the Hindu temples, and killed millions of Hindus. Verily a holocaust.

Of course, do not expect much information from school curriculum in India about these crimes, as they are in the hands of Marxists, many from prestigious universities in Delhi, like Professor Romila Thapar, a Hindu by birth and a Hindu baiter and a Marxist. Her Penguin History of India a classic example of rewriting history. Ms. Thapar, a visiting professor at Cornell University, is well received by the academics here.

The Upanishad proclaims: Brahman ekam eva advitiyam. God is One without a second. This is monotheism at its best. As per lesser gods, they are like lieutenants. Who is to say that a being with an elephant head called Ganesh does not exist? Doesn’t Christians allow for the existence of angels and cherub ins?

Sep 23, 2009 - 1:44 pm 19. Roy M. Postel:

Kudos to all the folks involved in publishing this thread. I knew nothing of this “issue” until your article. Of great interest is the lunch pail lesson on exactly what Muslims hold as truth. Middle class Americans, like the folks attending the Tea Parties, must learn the basics on the Quran and Islam. If we don’t engage the radicals in our neighborhoods we will lose our freedoms and culture. Look at what has happened in Western Europe.

Say no way to sharia law right from the get go. Okay, our values and culture are not perfect. We need more focus on virtue rather than license for vice. More focus on family and marriage rather than promoting divorce court and pornography. Our demise will be in following Europe. It has willfully abandoned the roots of Western Civilization composed of family, private property and natural moral law.

Middle class Americans know where the rats are in this country. Know the many faces of your opposition and don’t cower to their phony charges of intolerance because we are not versed in the wisdom of Islam. With this type of discourse we can better stand up to the cabal of western-hating academics. We have a university system that elevates cowardly career politicians and surrounds them with progressive, statist bureaucrats. Lastly we have a complicit global media gleefully promoting strife at every turn; not just in the news, but in the arts, music and entertainment realm, too.

They pick their targets with malice to try and censor with optimum results, because they are elitists who detest truth and genuine liberty. Look at the message of Nonie Darwish. Is it any wonder she is in the crosshairs? Similarly, check out what is happening here in the U.S. to Dr. Michael Savage, a conservative radio talk show host based on the west coast. He is a law abiding American and has been blacklisted by the British government for his conservative views. The U.S. State Department and media have not uttered a word about his plight or lifted a finger to defend his name. The silence on Dr. Savage is a classic example of the enemy within. Thank you for this forum and keep up the good work.

Sep 23, 2009 - 1:51 pm 20. Greenconsciousness:

We are winning with women — soon they will say they have always been with us and I welcome the day. Meanwhile Our Dear Leader stood for moral relativism in his speech at the UN today. He gave a clear message that women are not going to be a stumbling block to the brotherhood. We all have different customs and culture — all must be respected or some such code. And still no state dept feminist women’s programs for female liberation under the theocracies. All of Condi Rice’s feminist programs gutted and still nothing to replace them. And our Precious Leader told the brotherhood all their customs will be respected.

Sep 23, 2009 - 6:13 pm 21. David W. Lincoln:

Miami Man, nice try. First of all, I accuse you of being a polytheist. How? Because the respect of private property is necessary for the development of society, and the track record of your polytheistic faith is that property rights for some are protected part of the time. Which is far different than the countries which advanced the furthest because the property rights of more people were respected more often.

As for special treatment of people of the book, that is conditional upon they not declaring sovereignty over any land that was Muslim. When that happens, then whatever respect would have been given is gone.

One other thing, to aid you in Hebrew. The plural of cherub is cherubim. Just like the plural of Seraph is Seraphim.

Sep 23, 2009 - 7:17 pm 22. Chileno:

@ 18: “Alas, the Muslims allow a special place for “the people of the book” (Jews and Christians)”

Do not be deceived by the “people of the book” phrase. Though perhaps crueler to Hindus, extremist Muslims were/are nonetheless still harsh on Christians/Jews as well.

Consider the following:

- Arabs carried out countless pogroms against Jews throughout the Middle East. Some, particularly Palestinian agitators, regularly state Jews are the “sons of pigs and monkeys” (so much for being “people of the book”).

- It’s illegal in Saudi Arabia to publicly practice any non-Muslim religion. It’s even illegal to publicly display ANY non-Muslim religious symbols, including the Holy Cross or the Star of David.

- The Quran states: “O you who believe! Do not take the Jews and the Christians for rulers/patrons ; they are protectors of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a ruler/patron, then surely he is one of them; surely God does not guide the unjust people.”

And: “And the Jews say: Uzair [Ezra] is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!”

- The Hadith, quoted in the Hamas charter, states, “The Prophet, Allah bless him and grant him salvation, has said: ‘The Day of Judgement will not come about until Muslims fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Muslims, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him.’”

- Historically, Christians and Jews living in Moslem lands were considered dhimmi, a form of second-class citizenry whereby they were levied extra taxes, and faced certain restrictions (e.g. a dhimmi could not bear arms, or testify in court against a Muslim). They could live among the Muslims, so long as they understood themselves to be a lesser form of being.

There’s little religious tolerance in the strict interpretation of Islam, even for “people of the Book.”

Sep 23, 2009 - 7:30 pm 23. American Apostates from Islam Affirm Their Freedom | Vlad Tepes:

[...] Phyllis Chesler wrote yesterday: Nonie Darwish, the warmest, sanest, least prejudiced Egyptian whom I know, has both been attacked [...]

Sep 23, 2009 - 7:53 pm 24. David W. Lincoln:

For proof of the United States being founded on the Judeo-Christian ethic, I offer this from “To
Kill a Mockingbird”: Thomas Jefferson once said that all men are created equal, a phrase that the government is fond of hurling at us. There is a tendency in this year of grace, 1935, for certain people to use that phrase out of context, to satisfy all conditions. We know that all men are not created equal in the sense that some people would have us believe. Some people are smarter than others, some people have more opportunity because they are born with it, some men have more money than others, and some people are more gifted than others. But there is one way in this country in which all men are created equal. An institution that makes a pauper the equal of a Rockefeller, the ignorant man the equal of any president, and the stupid man the equal of Einstein. That institution is the court. But a court is only as sound as its jury, and the jury is only as sound as the men who make it up.

A person who is not a Muslim would not expect
this from a court in a country which is majority Muslim. This stems from the necessity of the advanced to respect, or protect, property rights of preferably all, and to do so all of the time. Which is vastly
different than what can be found in a country
which is majority Muslim. For there we see the property rights of fewer, not more, respected or protected less often than what the Sons of Allah call, the Dar al-Harb.

Sep 23, 2009 - 8:37 pm 25. MiamaMan:

21. David W. Lincoln:

[Miami Man, nice try. First of all, I accuse you of being a polytheist. How?]

Yes, how? Apparently the meaning of the word wasn’t clear to you, and still you don’t get it, as polytheism vs. monotheism has nothing to do with property rights. Accuse me? Come on, bro.

I understand the limitations of the statement “people of the book”, my objective was to highlight the plights of the Hindus under Muslim occupation, also exemplified in the lack of support from the world community during the many years that India was subjected to constant Muslim terrorist attacks, before it became a global problem.

Sep 24, 2009 - 3:32 am 26. tanstaafl:

Try as I might, I have never found the word “democracy” in the Bible. I’m not slamming the Bible, but I would like to point out that many (if not all) of our founders where fell versed in the Classics. “Democracy” is a Greek word and it was the pagan Greeks who first practiced this form of government. Democracy was also practiced by the Viking settlers in Iceland. The “Althing” was the first parliament in Europe since the Greeks.

Although the Israelis’ practice democracy, the Middle East has never been a hot bed of “government by the people, for the people”. I draw no conclusions, I am just pointing out that pagan Europe was the source of our democratic leanings.

Sep 24, 2009 - 5:18 am 27. Lynn:

#17
Oh they hide them behind brown paper wrappings, didn’t you know? Ah, Oh, will you blame me for your corruption? Never mind I see that your are already evil, thus the name.

Sep 24, 2009 - 6:13 am 28. David W. Lincoln:

Miami Man, you are employing selective vision. Take a closer look in Hebrew at the Ten Commandments, and you will find that what is translated into “You shall have no other Gods before me” is better translated into “You shall have no other authorities before me”.

In other words, one authority for everyone. Instead your polytheistic worship has one authority for the Dar Al Islam, and another one for the Dal al Harb. For there is a line from one of Kris Kristofferson’s songs, “The law is for the protection of the people”.

Your selective vision is hardly unique or new,
so you are traveling a road that has seen a lot of people traveling on it.

As for what India has put up with regarding Muslims, what about the caste system that saw
British traders eventually deal with Parsi’s, rather than continue with the Hindi’s because those of one caste could only deal with others
of the same caste, and this extended to the handling of dishes. A Brahmin would not pass a plate to someone of another caste. So, what
you had to say about what India cuts very little ice.

tanstaafl, just because you do not see the word “democracy” in the Bible does not mean only the judges or the kings made the decisions for all Israelites. Take a closer look at how people were involved. Then, I am
confident that your conclusion will change.

Sep 24, 2009 - 7:47 am 29. David W. Lincoln:

Plus, we are seeing the differences between the north and south of India played out today. Sinhalese, from northern india, form the majority of the population of Sri Lanka. Tamils, from southern india, form the minority in large part because they arrived later. The war between the Sinhalese and Tamils is still going on, largely because of too much invested in the distinctions between the two groups.

So, Muslims are fighting India because Muslims do not like being relegated to second class status, at best, which is what they would love to relegate anyone who isn’t Muslim.

This is a rough equivalent to the eastern front in Europe during the Second World War.

Sep 24, 2009 - 7:55 am 30. Roy:

Where’s the ACLU?

Sep 24, 2009 - 9:09 am 31. David W. Lincoln:

In “Hitler’s dream come true” by George Jonas, various interesting details are found. One is, Jews are not allowed to own property in Arab lands. This is an example of the property rights of the Dar al Harb not respected, or protected, at all. Which flies in the face of Muslims claiming to be monotheist. For the structure of monotheism is that there is one source for everything, one ultimate arbiter, one authority. There are examples in the Old and New Testament of prophets thundering against the rulers allowing, or perpetrating, double standards where the powerful profit from the misery of those not powerful.

Plus, there is the premise that the victory of Hanukkah is a victory for belief, because the tyrant may rule the realm, but not the heart.

This speaks to the knowable part of the supernatural being upheld by the unknowable part.

Therefore, because the West has done more with its time since the fall of Constantinople, than the Sons of Allah, protecting and/or respecting the property rights of more people, and doing so more often, goes a long way in explaining this. Plus it also speaks to the correlation between the protections ordinary people have, and how they are rooted in eternity. Which is something that the Rta would concur with.

Sep 24, 2009 - 9:33 am 32. Lynn:

#26 tanstaafl

I’m not so sure our roots came from Europe because I think the founders might have tried to take the form of rule by the people, while limiting it’s excesses such as tyrannical rule by the majority. They also inserted a clause of “self-evedence” that all men are created equal, with the caveat “by the creator”. Maybe this was a way to take what value a person has away from what value another person gives them. By valuing all humans equality through a Creator, they eliminated a mortal man as ultimate king and ultimate judge, and also eliminated the danger of a system of caste.

I think that what I might mean is that God comes in handy when he is democratic, that is, believes all men are created equal and have a say in their own destiny.

By not associating with any certain God but calling the entity a Creator (nameless) in a generic way, all citizens would be able to practice freedom of faith without adhering to a government sanctioned religious institution.

It seems the Greeks and Romans decided to come together as a group and grant each other equal power eliminating others such as the landless, slaves, women etc. Not really a democracy in my opinion but a plutocracy. I don’t think their gods were democratic.

Sep 24, 2009 - 10:17 am 33. Evil Pundit:

#32 The existence of slavery and other non-democratic arrangements in Christian lands (including the US) throughout the centuries destroys your point.

Don’t try to be a political philosopher — stick to female sex zombies.

Sep 24, 2009 - 1:54 pm 34. Bill:

How would this differ from an organization such as “Recovering Catholics United?”

Sep 24, 2009 - 2:12 pm 35. Lynn:

Evil Pundit as usual you bring no lucidity to an issue. And I think perhaps that is your intention. I think it is you that should stick to female sex zombies. They are probably your best chance at finding someone as mindless as you. Your heaven , their hell.

Your trying to hard to be evil, just be yourself, evil enough.

Sep 24, 2009 - 3:38 pm 36. myth buster:

18. Absolutely the heathen gods exist, but there is one thing that needs to be noted: they are demons! The whole lot of the heathen gods are evil. Every false god worshiped by pagans from around the world is either a demon or a human.

Sep 24, 2009 - 4:03 pm 37. logos1j1:

18 MiamaMan
Hinduism is neither polytheistic nor monotheistic: it is pantheistic. There is a qualitative difference between saying, “God is One,” and saying, “There is one God.” In Christianity, Judaism and Islam we say the latter. We are not God, or gods, or little sparks of God – we are His creation, He is the Creator. Hinduism says the first, as you quoted. It means God is everything and everything is God, all differences are but illusions – the snake and the rope illustration – i.e. pantheism. But in practice it is indeed polytheistic and idolatrous. How can you say it isn’t polytheistic? There are so many gods in the Hindu pantheon the religion itself acknowledges they are uncountable! How can you say it isn’t idolatrous? There are so many idols on Hindu temples it disturbs the mind to look at them!

Indeed the Muslims have oppressed the Hindus much more than other groups, but only because they were able to. Christians have indeed forgotten their Byzantine past and their Chaldean, Maronite and Coptic brethren who still live in persecution and fear to this day. The Muslims do this not because there are a few wackos in their midst scaring them into doing it but because the Koran tells them to. The problem with Islam is not the interpretation of sharia or “fundamentalism”: the problem with Islam is the Koran.

I don’t understand this tendency to deny the obvious tenets of one’s belief system. The Koran teaches that everyone must convert or die. Hinduism is pantheistic and idolatrous. If you don’t believe that abandon the religion. If you retain the religion admit what it is. Why say it is something other than what it is? Do you think the rest of us are idiots and can’t read?

Sep 25, 2009 - 12:07 am 38. MiamaMan:

28. David W. Lincoln:

“Miami Man, you are employing selective vision. Take a closer look in Hebrew at the Ten Commandments, and you will find that what is translated into “You shall have no other Gods before me” is better translated into “You shall have no other authorities before me”.

Still nothing to do with polytheism and monotheism. You push the arguyment without any base.

[As for what India has put up with regarding Muslims, what about the caste system that saw
British traders eventually deal with Parsi’s, rather than continue with the Hindi’s because those of one caste could only deal with others
of the same caste, and this extended to the handling of dishes. A Brahmin would not pass a plate to someone of another caste. So, what
you had to say about what India cuts very little ice.]

Apparently, according to your view, the caste system, which I agree is an abomination, justifies the tremendous crimes committed by the Mughals and Muslims in occupied India. Wow, great thinking and feeling. The Indian had it coming, right? Some type of Karma?

Sep 25, 2009 - 4:16 am 39. David W. Lincoln:

Miami Man, do you really need to have everything laid out for you, so that others do the work and you receive the benefit? Click this url:http://www.georgejonas.ca/recent_writing.cfm?id=772
so that you can read for yourself what happens when property rights for the Dar al Harb are not protected at all. So, given that property rights are evidence that the earthly king has limitations to his power, and this had to come from something, or somewhere, you are fighting a losing battle in
saying there is no connection between monotheism and property rights.

You have reduced your humanity by being a man without a chest. For not everything about life is definable.

As for the misfortunes India has suffered, call it compensation for what it has tolerated
and perpetrated.

After all, what was dished out by Indians before the Mughals and Muslims dished out those things you demonized?

Sep 25, 2009 - 3:55 pm 40. MiamaMan:

David W. Lincoln:

Dear Lincol:

[You have reduced your humanity by being a man without a chest. For not everything about life is definable.]

Excuse me…

[As for the misfortunes India has suffered, call it compensation for what it has tolerated
and perpetrated.]

Please enlighten us about perpetration.

[After all, what was dished out by Indians before the Mughals and Muslims dished out those things you demonized?]

Very interesting, you verily a scholar, scholarship grammar school…arssship. Demonize you, demonize me.

Liconly…your friend, aufruf an das deutsche volk….

Sep 26, 2009 - 1:09 pm

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