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	<title>Comments on: Plan C</title>
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		<title>By: Belmont Club &#187; The seen and the unseen</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/07/02/plan-c/comment-page-2/#comment-2301</link>
		<dc:creator>Belmont Club &#187; The seen and the unseen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jul 2008 02:11:05 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] more iterations in al-Qaeda&#8217;s policy toward civilians Recently, some al-Qaeda ideologues have proposed random civilian attacks in the West, because the opinion of infidel civilians is ostensibly less relevant to their organizational [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] more iterations in al-Qaeda&#8217;s policy toward civilians Recently, some al-Qaeda ideologues have proposed random civilian attacks in the West, because the opinion of infidel civilians is ostensibly less relevant to their organizational [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Grimmy</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/07/02/plan-c/comment-page-2/#comment-836</link>
		<dc:creator>Grimmy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jul 2008 06:27:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/07/02/plan-c/#comment-836</guid>
		<description>NahnCee: The issue wont, and shouldn&#039;t escalate to an abrupt either/or all at once. I do agree with you, wholeheartedly in that.

Storm-Rider: I agree with much of what you said in your last post, except for the possibility for the ideology of islam to reform. There&#039;s a false analogy that is often used in relation to the reformation of Christianity that is put forward as a potential for islam. Christianity reformed away from a tool of state control because Christianity was originally designed as a non-state religion. It was perverted into a tool of empire and in reform, sought its original intent. 

Islam is a tool of empire. It was created as a tool of empire and can not be separated from that format. Also, islam has had it&#039;s reformation in the Wahhabi Movement.

Also, your words concerning the lack of need to kill all Germans but remove nazism is the point I am trying to drive home. Islam is and always will be a hostile ideology that refuses to allow anyone to coexist outside of islam. For so long as islam exists as an ideology, islam will be at war with all who are not islam. Not spiritual war, not an intellectual contest of ideology, but a bloody, brutal, bestial war of predation and slaughter.

If we do not want to paint ourselves into the kind of corner where our own survival demands the absolute destruction and obliteration of every mulsim on the planet, then we must steel ourselves to the reality that islam itself must be destroyed. 

As in times past, appeasement and/or half steps in confronting this will only serve to increase the cost in bloodshed at the end.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>NahnCee: The issue wont, and shouldn&#8217;t escalate to an abrupt either/or all at once. I do agree with you, wholeheartedly in that.</p>
<p>Storm-Rider: I agree with much of what you said in your last post, except for the possibility for the ideology of islam to reform. There&#8217;s a false analogy that is often used in relation to the reformation of Christianity that is put forward as a potential for islam. Christianity reformed away from a tool of state control because Christianity was originally designed as a non-state religion. It was perverted into a tool of empire and in reform, sought its original intent. </p>
<p>Islam is a tool of empire. It was created as a tool of empire and can not be separated from that format. Also, islam has had it&#8217;s reformation in the Wahhabi Movement.</p>
<p>Also, your words concerning the lack of need to kill all Germans but remove nazism is the point I am trying to drive home. Islam is and always will be a hostile ideology that refuses to allow anyone to coexist outside of islam. For so long as islam exists as an ideology, islam will be at war with all who are not islam. Not spiritual war, not an intellectual contest of ideology, but a bloody, brutal, bestial war of predation and slaughter.</p>
<p>If we do not want to paint ourselves into the kind of corner where our own survival demands the absolute destruction and obliteration of every mulsim on the planet, then we must steel ourselves to the reality that islam itself must be destroyed. </p>
<p>As in times past, appeasement and/or half steps in confronting this will only serve to increase the cost in bloodshed at the end.</p>
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		<title>By: NahnCee</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/07/02/plan-c/comment-page-2/#comment-834</link>
		<dc:creator>NahnCee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jul 2008 05:37:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/07/02/plan-c/#comment-834</guid>
		<description>Britain&#039;s top priest has said not -- no Shariah, Islam is bad.  Who do you suppose will win in a country where once upon a time the Archbishop&#039;s predecessor was assassinated after the then top government person muttered, &quot;Will no one rid me of this troublesome priest?&quot;  

I wonder how Queen Elizabeth feels about her loyal subjects, the Muslims.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Britain&#8217;s top priest has said not &#8212; no Shariah, Islam is bad.  Who do you suppose will win in a country where once upon a time the Archbishop&#8217;s predecessor was assassinated after the then top government person muttered, &#8220;Will no one rid me of this troublesome priest?&#8221;  </p>
<p>I wonder how Queen Elizabeth feels about her loyal subjects, the Muslims.</p>
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		<title>By: whiskey</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/07/02/plan-c/comment-page-2/#comment-818</link>
		<dc:creator>whiskey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jul 2008 01:49:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/07/02/plan-c/#comment-818</guid>
		<description>Plan C has already worked in Britain. Britain&#039;s Top Judge has said Sharia SHOULD be used in Britain.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Plan C has already worked in Britain. Britain&#8217;s Top Judge has said Sharia SHOULD be used in Britain.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian H</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/07/02/plan-c/comment-page-2/#comment-813</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian H</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jul 2008 00:24:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/07/02/plan-c/#comment-813</guid>
		<description>Doug:
... Pakistan ... has yet to aggressively and directly combat Taliban and al-Qaeda with significance.
...
Jul 2, 2008 - 2:11 pm//
=======
&quot;Significance&quot; sounds like a fascinating weapon; how is it deployed?  What damage does it cause?  How much does it cost?  
:p
_________
Chip; &quot;Is there any place in the world becoming less Islamic? Not Afghanistan or Iraq, our ‘victories’. &quot;
...
Jul 2, 2008 - 4:54 pm//
=========
You might be surprised: &lt;a href=&quot;http://sugiero.blogspot.com/2008/03/basra-iraq-i-hate-islam.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;ME youth hate Islam&lt;/a&gt;.  And Sufism doesn&#039;t wash &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.commentarymagazine.com/viewarticle.cfm/this-is-a-kosovar-muslim-11372&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;in Kosovo&lt;/a&gt;.  Totten: &quot;(Kosovo feels like a pro-American spa compared even to my home town in the United States.)&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Doug:<br />
&#8230; Pakistan &#8230; has yet to aggressively and directly combat Taliban and al-Qaeda with significance.<br />
&#8230;<br />
Jul 2, 2008 &#8211; 2:11 pm//<br />
=======<br />
&#8220;Significance&#8221; sounds like a fascinating weapon; how is it deployed?  What damage does it cause?  How much does it cost?<br />
:p<br />
_________<br />
Chip; &#8220;Is there any place in the world becoming less Islamic? Not Afghanistan or Iraq, our ‘victories’. &#8221;<br />
&#8230;<br />
Jul 2, 2008 &#8211; 4:54 pm//<br />
=========<br />
You might be surprised: <a href="http://sugiero.blogspot.com/2008/03/basra-iraq-i-hate-islam.html" rel="nofollow">ME youth hate Islam</a>.  And Sufism doesn&#8217;t wash <a href="http://www.commentarymagazine.com/viewarticle.cfm/this-is-a-kosovar-muslim-11372" rel="nofollow">in Kosovo</a>.  Totten: &#8220;(Kosovo feels like a pro-American spa compared even to my home town in the United States.)&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Storm-Rider</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/07/02/plan-c/comment-page-2/#comment-802</link>
		<dc:creator>Storm-Rider</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 21:17:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/07/02/plan-c/#comment-802</guid>
		<description>&quot;Destroy the ideology now, or destroy every man, woman and child adhering to the ideology later.&quot;

Not exactly true; we destroyed Nazi Ideology, Nazi Law, and the Nazi Military during World War II without destroying every German man, woman and child. We must destroy the ideology which supports Islamic Sharia Law and Islamic Jihad, and we must destroy the Islamic Jihadist soldiers; but as in World War II it would not be necessary or justified to kill all Muslims. After removing the evil ideology, law and military forces of Islam, which overhangs all Muslims, they would be freed from their religious tyranny; just as Germans were eventually freed from the overhang of Nazi Law and the Gestapo and the S.S. After Muslims are freed from their religious tyranny they can reform their religion or convert without fear to another.

Where the multicultural leftists have gone wrong is to believe the Islamic culture is just like other cultures, say Peruvian culture or Australian aboriginal culture. They fail or refuse to see that Islamic culture is truly contaminated by evil - the evil of Islamic Sharia Law and the evil of Islamic Jihad; and those two are our enemies to the death. Sharia Law and Jihad are the enemies of our life, liberty and pursuit of happiness; and they are a means to rule over us without our consent.

Plan C has a chance because the Marxist/Socialists in the American Democratic Party are forming an alliance with the Islamists; and they have great legislative power in this country, and they have partial control of our Supreme Court - not to mention control of much of Hollywood and most of our educational system. We are in trouble, and I believe a second American Revolution may be required at some point to secure our sacred human rights and to ensure that government power in America only derives through the consent of the governed.

I fear the Marxist/Socialists in the Democratic Party more than the Islamist enemy; they are an internal enemy of liberty.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Destroy the ideology now, or destroy every man, woman and child adhering to the ideology later.&#8221;</p>
<p>Not exactly true; we destroyed Nazi Ideology, Nazi Law, and the Nazi Military during World War II without destroying every German man, woman and child. We must destroy the ideology which supports Islamic Sharia Law and Islamic Jihad, and we must destroy the Islamic Jihadist soldiers; but as in World War II it would not be necessary or justified to kill all Muslims. After removing the evil ideology, law and military forces of Islam, which overhangs all Muslims, they would be freed from their religious tyranny; just as Germans were eventually freed from the overhang of Nazi Law and the Gestapo and the S.S. After Muslims are freed from their religious tyranny they can reform their religion or convert without fear to another.</p>
<p>Where the multicultural leftists have gone wrong is to believe the Islamic culture is just like other cultures, say Peruvian culture or Australian aboriginal culture. They fail or refuse to see that Islamic culture is truly contaminated by evil &#8211; the evil of Islamic Sharia Law and the evil of Islamic Jihad; and those two are our enemies to the death. Sharia Law and Jihad are the enemies of our life, liberty and pursuit of happiness; and they are a means to rule over us without our consent.</p>
<p>Plan C has a chance because the Marxist/Socialists in the American Democratic Party are forming an alliance with the Islamists; and they have great legislative power in this country, and they have partial control of our Supreme Court &#8211; not to mention control of much of Hollywood and most of our educational system. We are in trouble, and I believe a second American Revolution may be required at some point to secure our sacred human rights and to ensure that government power in America only derives through the consent of the governed.</p>
<p>I fear the Marxist/Socialists in the Democratic Party more than the Islamist enemy; they are an internal enemy of liberty.</p>
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		<title>By: NahnCee</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/07/02/plan-c/comment-page-2/#comment-782</link>
		<dc:creator>NahnCee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 14:51:02 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Grimmy - bad analogy on my part.  I do think we should give them the choice of repenting before dying, though.  Although give that lying is an approved part of their religion, maybe we couldn&#039;t be sure that they were giving up their beloved Religion of Pieces.  But since they&#039;re so fraught about apostasy, just *saying* &quot;I promise not to be a Muslim any more&quot; should count for something, Paradise-wise.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Grimmy &#8211; bad analogy on my part.  I do think we should give them the choice of repenting before dying, though.  Although give that lying is an approved part of their religion, maybe we couldn&#8217;t be sure that they were giving up their beloved Religion of Pieces.  But since they&#8217;re so fraught about apostasy, just *saying* &#8220;I promise not to be a Muslim any more&#8221; should count for something, Paradise-wise.</p>
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		<title>By: Lifeofthemind</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/07/02/plan-c/comment-page-2/#comment-771</link>
		<dc:creator>Lifeofthemind</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 10:50:37 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Didn&#039;t know that Pat Buchanan posted here under a pseudonym. OK not fair, PB writes better.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Didn&#8217;t know that Pat Buchanan posted here under a pseudonym. OK not fair, PB writes better.</p>
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		<title>By: cedarford</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/07/02/plan-c/comment-page-2/#comment-767</link>
		<dc:creator>cedarford</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 09:33:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/07/02/plan-c/#comment-767</guid>
		<description>NahnCee - &lt;i&gt;John Bolton and I think it (starting war with Iran) will be after the election and before the inauguration&lt;/i&gt;

Unlikely unless the President-Elect and the people with the majority in Congress wish to be handed a major ME War, 9 dollar a gallon gas and heating oil amidst a vicious economic downturn well underway before. 

Support of the C-i-C in the military will be at it&#039;s nadir for such a stunt, basically a new vast Neocon aggression on behalf of Israel, in the midst of what appears to be another massive bloodletting coming of his Party in Congress, an Administration changeover, and the military being used as a tool to usurp the electoral Will of the People.
Not unless there is a &quot;Yellow/Green&quot; light from the President-elect, and an AIPAC-purchased one with the Democratic Congress.

Even if the President-Elect is McCain. If he decides to hit Iran, it will be with his people and his assessment in place, not as Bush&#039;s stooge in a last-gasp stunt that would condemn a McCain Administration to condemnation before it started, domestically and internationally.

As for Bolton, the unreconstructed Neocon and Christian Zionist was sent packing out of policy-making after the 2006 elections for many good reasons.
He won&#039;t be back in any Administration or championed by an adequate number of Congress in any case. He will be at the margins the rest of his career like Wolfowitz and Feith, writing fiery essays from think tanks and hawking books and speeches to receptive &quot;old school&quot; Zionists and Cuban-Americans.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>NahnCee &#8211; <i>John Bolton and I think it (starting war with Iran) will be after the election and before the inauguration</i></p>
<p>Unlikely unless the President-Elect and the people with the majority in Congress wish to be handed a major ME War, 9 dollar a gallon gas and heating oil amidst a vicious economic downturn well underway before. </p>
<p>Support of the C-i-C in the military will be at it&#8217;s nadir for such a stunt, basically a new vast Neocon aggression on behalf of Israel, in the midst of what appears to be another massive bloodletting coming of his Party in Congress, an Administration changeover, and the military being used as a tool to usurp the electoral Will of the People.<br />
Not unless there is a &#8220;Yellow/Green&#8221; light from the President-elect, and an AIPAC-purchased one with the Democratic Congress.</p>
<p>Even if the President-Elect is McCain. If he decides to hit Iran, it will be with his people and his assessment in place, not as Bush&#8217;s stooge in a last-gasp stunt that would condemn a McCain Administration to condemnation before it started, domestically and internationally.</p>
<p>As for Bolton, the unreconstructed Neocon and Christian Zionist was sent packing out of policy-making after the 2006 elections for many good reasons.<br />
He won&#8217;t be back in any Administration or championed by an adequate number of Congress in any case. He will be at the margins the rest of his career like Wolfowitz and Feith, writing fiery essays from think tanks and hawking books and speeches to receptive &#8220;old school&#8221; Zionists and Cuban-Americans.</p>
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		<title>By: Zenster</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/07/02/plan-c/comment-page-2/#comment-766</link>
		<dc:creator>Zenster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 08:16:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/07/02/plan-c/#comment-766</guid>
		<description>As to the article at hand:

&lt;i&gt;Naji recommends kidnappings, the holding of hostages, the use of women and children as human shields, exhibition killings to terrorize the enemy, suicide bombings and countless gestures that make normal life impossible for the “infidel” and Muslim collaborators.&lt;/i&gt;

All that a constant stream of low-level intensity terrorist attacks will achieve is to make normal &lt;b&gt;MUSLIM&lt;/b&gt; life impossible. Perhaps even for all time.

The West will not tolerate having daily life disrupted on such a regular basis. That is the most SURE WAY to piss off everyone all at once. When that happens, Muslims will start to die in huge numbers.

Remember:

&lt;i&gt;&lt;b&gt;ISLAM WOULDN&#039;T HAVE IT ANY OTHER WAY&lt;/I&gt;&lt;/B&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As to the article at hand:</p>
<p><i>Naji recommends kidnappings, the holding of hostages, the use of women and children as human shields, exhibition killings to terrorize the enemy, suicide bombings and countless gestures that make normal life impossible for the “infidel” and Muslim collaborators.</i></p>
<p>All that a constant stream of low-level intensity terrorist attacks will achieve is to make normal <b>MUSLIM</b> life impossible. Perhaps even for all time.</p>
<p>The West will not tolerate having daily life disrupted on such a regular basis. That is the most SURE WAY to piss off everyone all at once. When that happens, Muslims will start to die in huge numbers.</p>
<p>Remember:</p>
<p><i><b>ISLAM WOULDN&#8217;T HAVE IT ANY OTHER WAY</b></i></p>
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