Michael Totten looks at the influence of Wahabi groups in Kosovo. These groups made their debut during the civil war, when the anti-Milosevic forces were forced by necessity to welcome all comers. Totten recounts:
Krasniqi is an Albanian-American roofer who ran what he called the Homeland Calling Fund to raise money for the KLA back home. He raised 30 million dollars from Albanian-Americans and sent cargo planes stocked full of weapons and uniforms from the United States to Northern Albania where the goods were then smuggled over the border into Kosovo. “We were approached by fundamentalist Muslims from every direction – Al Qaeda – but most of the leaders of the KLA just didn’t feel right about working with them,” he said to Dutch filmmaker Klaartje Quirijns in the documentary film The Brooklyn Connection. “I would have cooperated with the devil to free my country. I didn’t care who they were.” Later, he said he realized the KLA commanders were right to turn down help from Islamist extremists. And it’s a good thing they did, or Kosovo’s Islamist problem might be much more severe than it is.
At the seeming root of the antipathy between the Kosovars and the Wahabis is a de-facto schism between European Muslim culture and that of the Middle East. Michael Totten notes that while the two may have some nominal points in common, there are deep and probably irreconcilable differences between them.
Not even the small towns and villages of Kosovo are conservative by Islamic standards. Kosovo is the least Islamicized Muslim-majority country I have ever been to. The only possible exception is Albania. Islamic civilization – if such a dubious thing even exists – is far more varied than it appears from outside, especially in the media which thrives on sensationalism. Prishtina has no more in common culturally with thoroughly Islamicized cities like Cairo and Riyadh than Cairo and Riyadh have with Seattle.
The difference between Arab and European may ultimately dominate the affinity between one variety of Muslim and another. The fact that different ethnicities in the Balkans tend to adopt a common religion often gives outsiders the impression that ethnic warfare is really religious strife. That would be confusing the proxy indicator for the real thing. “Kosovo’s war, then, wasn’t religious. It was ethnic. Christians did not fight Muslims; Serbs fought Albanians. Serbian nationalists ethnically-cleansed Kosovo’s Catholics right along with the Muslims.” Michael Totten’s observation in the Balkans raises the interesting possibility that the widely feared “Islamization” of Europe is really the dual of the intentional deprecation of national cultures by its elites. That the rapid decline of Christianity in Western Europe has less to do with attractions of Islam than as indicator of the rate at which the multicultral project is dismantling formerly vibrant traditions.
What is striking in Michael Totten’s record of conversations with Kosovar Muslims is the extent to which they are grateful to America for the chance to save their culture even from the Bin Ladenists; a reminder if any were needed of the central role of ethnic identity in the Balkans. In the eyes of Kosovar Muslims the Wahabis were just another species of foreigner. But if the Wahabis were foreigners they were also rich foreigners. Michael describes how they went so far as to pay the locals to dress in the “Islamic”, but more accurately, the Arab Way.
“How successful are the Wahhabis here?” I said.
“They are successful in rebuilding mosques,” Fana said, “and they pay people to get covered, to shorten the pants.”
Conservative Arab women wear headscarves – or even veils or enveloping abayas – while Wahhabi men wear short pants that ride high above their ankles. I saw an average of one or two Albanian women each day wearing a headscarf, but I never noticed even a single man anywhere in Kosovo wearing Wahhabi pants. There can’t be all that many around.
“They pay people to dress differently?” I said. I heard this from all sorts of people in Kosovo and have no way to verify whether it’s true or not. Either way, it seems to be a mainstream belief among Albanians. I also heard rumors that Hezbollah once paid women in Shia villages of Lebanon one hundred dollars a month to wear headscarves until they gave it up as both expensive and futile. Genuinely conservative women will wear them without needing baksheesh from Hezbollah, while liberated women are hard to bribe. Lebanon’s relatively modern “dress code” among bourgeois Muslim women was hard won and will not be rolled back so easily.
“I have heard about it,” Fana said. “I don’t know for sure. Most likely true, they have money. Gulf money, not just from Iran.
While the Wahabis may appear to be exporting “religion” in the eyes Western intellectuals, from the point of view of those whose sense of ethnic identity is still strong they are really seen to be imposing an alien culture. It is remarkable how, with all the thousands of pages devoted to campaign in Iraq, how few pundits have noticed how deftly MNF-I used Iraqi tribal identities to isolate the Arab-led al Qaeda; how adroitly Petraeus and his staff divined the subtle difference between terrorism as a pan-Muslim phenomenon and its specific expression as a Middle Eastern cultural meme. They understood the difference when the public intellectuals did not. People on the ground — like Michael Totten — can similarly see the situation from a standpoint an intellectual writing from New York might miss. This hilarious passage captures the essential alien-ness of the Wahabi culture in the Balkans and incidentally illustrates a peculiar Western blindness: how the politically correct intelligensia’s idea of an “authentic” Muslim woman as a “covered” woman might be as ridiculous as the idea that Fortune Cookies and General Tso’s Chicken are authentic classic Chinese cuisine. Totten had this conversation with an academic who was astounded to see stage Muslims paraded around by the acme of Western multilateral sophistication.
Albanian Islam is so different from Islam in Iraq and – especially – Afghanistan, that it must have been truly shocking when conservative women from those countries met a thoroughly Western-looking and Western-thinking woman who claimed to adhere to the same religion. Kosovo surprised even me, and I’m accustomed to spending time in relatively secularized Muslim countries.
“How many Wahhabis are here?” I said, meaning the medium-sized city they lived in. We were not in the capital.
“Here?” Fana said. “Maybe 100. Maybe 50.”
“Are they dangerous?” I said.
“No,” she said. “They don’t do anything.”
“I will tell you one thing,” Lumnije said. “The problem is that this issue has not been raised, except for when they talk about the mosques. I haven’t noticed any journalists tackle this thing. I am sure this issue will soon arise, but until the 17th of February everybody was obsessed with the independence issue. Now I am sure it will come up. What happened yesterday at the school, when one covered girl was not allowed to enter, I am sure this case will come up and they will start to deal with it. I hope that they will deal with it at some essential level, regulating it by law. In OSCE [part of the United Nations Mission to Kosovo], for example, there is one girl who is covered, but she is a professional interpreter, very well-educated. At one point the Kosovar delegation went to Germany and they hired an interpreter and she was supposed to go. When they saw that she was covered they refused to take her.”
“The Kosovars refused to take a covered woman to Germany as a professional interpreter,” Fana said, “and the U.S. sends a covered Iraqi woman to Wales as a representative!” She laughed out loud at the irony.
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49erDweet:How beautifully and wonderfully ironic. The ‘elite’ see through the filter of their biases, not their intellects. PT Barnum rules again.
Jul 21, 2008 - 6:46 am Insufficiently Sensitive:Having spent some time in old Yugoslavia, including Bosnia, it’s hard to compare the brand of easygoing Islam there with the hardnosed Allah-uber-alles Wahabi style.
For an introduction, a read through some old Ivo Andric novels is beneficial.
And lest one wants to assign all blame to the Saudis, whose vast oil wealth is the means of propagation of the cranky sect whose preachings the early al-Sauds made part of their operation, think a little further. Without the help of the British India Office after World War I, the Saudis would have been less able to conquer Mecca in 1926 and drive out the Hashemites, who weren’t as ably assisted by thir patrons in the British Foreign Office. Right hand, left hand…
Jul 21, 2008 - 7:28 am dla:The further you are from Saudi Arabia, the more sensible Islam becomes. The next great collapse will be the house of Saud - like the Soviet Union of old the Sauds are facing some intractible infrastructure problems. When the crutch of oil is removed, can they stand? I think not.
Jul 21, 2008 - 8:20 am newtland:When the House of Suad falls, is what comes next better or worse?
Jul 21, 2008 - 8:24 am LarryD:OK, for those who aren’t getting the fortune cookie joke, fortune cookies aren’t Chinese. What gets served in American Chinese restaurants is an American version of a Japanese cookie. And the Japanese cookie only goes back to the 19th century.
Jul 21, 2008 - 8:54 am Eggplant:Newtland asked:
“When the House of Saud falls, is what comes next better or worse?”
The fall of the Saudi dynasty means three things:
1) The big oil fields like the Gwahir will have run out of petroleum.
2) Wahabiism will be in terminal decline.
3) Saudi Arabia will be in civil war.
Since our modern economy is based upon cheap petroleum, the disappearance of the Gwahir oil field will be a complete disaster. However militant Sunni Islam comes mainly from the Wahabii and Egyptian Islamic intellectuals but Saudi dollars mostly funds Sunni Islamic extremism. Take away the Wahabiis then militant Sunni Islam would remain in Egypt but lose most of its funding (militant Sunni Islam would lose its international character). However militant Shia Islam will continue to be a problem until the Iranian mullahs disappear (that could happen very suddenly with lots of unwanted side effects, particularly if there’s a civil war in Saudi Arabia).
So to answer Newtland’s question: Will things get better or worse? I suspect things will continue to be bad, just a different kind of bad.
As an aside: The eventual collapse of Saudi Arabia is almost a given after they exhaust their petroleum deposits. However Iraq will continue to have petroleum for many years afterwards. This is where our investment in Iraq would really payoff assuming our next President doesn’t throw that investment in the trash.
Jul 21, 2008 - 9:50 am Roderick Reilly:That Balkan Islam (that’s the “European Islam” that Totten is actually talking about) is extremely moderate is all well and good, but the Islam that is spreading throughout the rest of Europe is NOT that kind of Islam. The Muslims who have established themselves throughout that part of Europe that was never been Ottoman is of the more traditional, non-European variety. “Moderate” Muslims located in Southeastern Europe have no leverage on those other Muslims in the rest of Europe.
Jul 21, 2008 - 10:15 am NahnCee:So we don’t think Saudi Arabia will collapse until they run out of oil money? Is that because the populace are so lazy and uneducated that they can’t be bothered to free themselves, or because America will prop them up, or what?
Jul 21, 2008 - 11:01 am Michael J. Totten:Roderick Reilly: I think that average people can get by fine without adapting to “jungle rules” virtually anywhere.
Absolutely. The difference between indigenous European Islam and “immigrant” Islam is galactic.
There are more extremists in Britain than there are in Kosovo, and they are treated more respectfully in Britain than they are in Kosovo. Politically correct Westerners have no idea what they are dealing with.
Jul 21, 2008 - 11:08 am Eggplant:NahnCee asked:
“So we don’t think Saudi Arabia will collapse until they run out of oil money? Is that because the populace are so lazy and uneducated that they can’t be bothered to free themselves, or because America will prop them up, or what?”
Yes… The key phrase is:
“No representation without taxation.”
The al Saud dynasty have created the perfect welfare state based upon petroleum wealth (the socialist dream realized). The citizens of Saudi Arabia only need to be good Moslems, not interfer with their country’s management and in exchange all of their basic needs will be provided for by the state. Of course this sweet deal turns into excrement after the petroleum runs out (that happens within 20 years).
The US is quite happy to allow the Saudis to piss away their future (it’s their money!) provided the petroleum continues to flow. We and the Saudis are walking hand-in-hand towards the cliff’s edge.
Jul 21, 2008 - 11:32 am Morton Doodslag:Richard, you’re usually so perceptive — how can you fall for this contrived drivel? You buy Totten’s formula that there’s a difference between “ethnic conflict” and “religious conflict” in former Yugoslavia. Isn’t that a distinction without a difference? These people largely share the same racial makeup — so the conflict clearly isn’t racial. Here I’d interject that the Bosnia repugnance at the attempts by Arabs to infiltrate was more a racist reaction than any aversion to Wahhabism, per se, but I digress… So you’ve made a distinction between the “ethnic” groups. What is the basis for their ethnic differences? Isn’t it religious and solely religious? If so, then there’s no distinction, and the parsing of terms seems more designed, as I believe Totten is intent upon, to propagandize the lie that religion, and especially Islam, had nothing to do with the conflict in the region.
Here’s another framework to understand the conflict. For more than 500 years Islam has been attempting to thrust itself further and further into Europe with designs on conquering territory for Islam — aka JIHAD. For most of those 500 years the Ottoman Empire (Caliphate) represented the center of gravity for Islamic powers, military, economic, and social. Even so, trenchant defenders of Western heritage resisted in the mountains of Dalmatia and former Illyria against all attempts by Muslims to murder, and generally rape and plunder their way further into Europe. These people who resisted the sword of Islam formed part of the bastion of Europe, and we owe them A LOT. The Ottoman Turks even made it as far as Vienna, where they were finally repulsed in the late 17th Century. Jihad (*until the late 20th century) never reached this far into Europe again.
Gradually over time, Islam’s influence and powers inevitably waned, and the rest of the world moved well beyond the primitive mindset of the Islam. In fact, at the beginning of the 20th Century, Islam itself was poised for extinction when the Ottoman Empire finally collapsed in the turmoil of WW1.
But the accident of oil changed everything. Between WW1 and WW1, and coinciding with the West’s global search for oil resources to feed our growing industrial juggernaut, vast reserves were found under the Arabian desert. During this time, the House of Saud wrested and consolidated control of the Arabian peninsula, Mekkah and Medina, and money began flowing into Muslim coffers for the first time in decades.
Fast forward to the last three decades of the 20th Century. Factor in the inflow of trillions of Western dollars, and quite suddenly the moribund Islamic world is again on the march — Muslims across the globe, after those many decades of constantly growing constantly inflowing revenues - billions of dollars into more and more Muslim coffers, wherever oil was found (Muslims can “produce” oil, terrorism, and babies very nicely… ) and we see what has been wrought.
Totten hears stories of how meek and mild Islam is in Bosnia. It never seems to occur to him that this was a temporary state of affairs, most due to the fact that Islam had nearly died in this region due to its own moribundity. It also makes sense that this last area of the earth to be somewhat messily and incompletely converted into Dar ul Islam might also be one of the last places on earth where the newly invigorated Jihad would finally take root again.
Seen through the lens of massive inflows of loot to make Jihad possible again — all of the rampant Islamic terrorism the world is witnessing has everything to do with Islam and its resurgence. All the petty “ethnic” squabbles, all the Marxist narratives of Colonialization and “oppression”, those these are “confusing the proxy indicator[s] for the real thing”: ISLAM.
I’ve written elsewhere that the Muslims have intermittently been eroding and cleansing the region of non-Muslims since the Ottomans arrived 500 years ago. This is simply an extenuation of a very old Jihad, and I believe we completely backed the wrong side. We’ve now helped birth a Islamic Jihad ministate on the doorstep of Europe — something the Muslims were never capable of in their long history of rapine destruction.
Jul 21, 2008 - 12:09 pm Morton Doodslag:“…Islamic Jihad ministate on the doorstep of Europe…”
I overstated the case, and thereby ignored a giant exception. Of course Muslims did this in Spain, and it took nearly 800 years and staggering amounts of blood to turn back the tide. In fact, Spain represents one of the few nations that was once invaded by Muslim hordes and then successfully expelled them. In nearly every other case, Muslims play for keeps, and nothing will turn them back. I wonder what this augers for the tens of thousands of little (and not so little) footholds we’ve insanely granted them across our splendid domains?
The Muslims in “Kosovo”, armed with excellent propaganda in the form of a narrative which fit perfectly into the post-modern Marxist mold, and at a time when the West was lazily and arrogantly assuming that assisting Muslims would somehow translate into goodwill from the larger Islamic world towards the West, and abetted by morally bankrupt regimes in Europe and especially Washington, with basilisks like Wesley Clark and Bill Clinton at the helm, advanced the cause of Jihad in the 1990s.
No wonder they seem to “like” us so much. (and it’s only seem, I guarantee…)
Still, it’s amazing that Totten is taken in so utterly by their effusive appreciation that infidel America witlessly helped fulfill Allah’s design and made the land part of the House of Islam for the Muslims of Kosovo.
Jul 21, 2008 - 1:27 pm Charles:OT: Michael Yon: The war in Iraq is over. We won. Which means the Iraqi people won.
I wish I could say the same for Afghanistan. But that war we clearly are losing:
Jul 21, 2008 - 1:38 pm NahnCee:The al Saud dynasty have created the perfect welfare state based upon petroleum wealth (the socialist dream realized). The citizens of Saudi Arabia only need to be good Moslems, not interfer with their country’s management and in exchange all of their basic needs will be provided for by the state.
Those needs are pretty rock bottom basic already. I don’t remember the exact amount it would translate to in American dollars but seem to recall that the amount of dollars average Saud’s are allocated is LESS than an American would get on welfare or unemployment.
In other words, they’re not getting enough to buy anything more than rice for food, their aquifer is running out of water so they’re having to pony up more and more for that, and inflation is increasing rents to the point that they can’t afford housing any more.
Forget about buying a car or having money for a dowry to get married, or even medical care. More and more I’m reading stories about hospitals in Riyadh and Jeddah turning patients away and not only sick brown people from other countries.
But you’re right — if you’re content to live in 120 degree temperatures without air conditioning, drinking recycled sewage water and eating rice then the Saud government will provide for you and you won’t have to actually work for a living. After all, you can always “hire” a Filippina maid, neglect to actually pay her any wages, and amuse yourself by beating and raping her all day — which must mean that you’re superior, right?
Jul 21, 2008 - 2:11 pm saus:Clearly the immigration version of Islam in Europe, primarily the west can often be the radicalized and quite subversively dangerous type. Just as alarming, the trend for native - By all accounts ‘western’ Muslim youth to embrace the more radical salafi or whahabi type imported version of Islam themselves, as opposed to say MTV.
Whether that be because they feel alienated or perhaps it seems hip is beyond my knowledge. Now we are seeing North African immigration embracing this, and of course Pakistani youth are radicalizing in the west alarmingly.. The trend to accommodate and bend to this in the west in the name of multiculturalism as a form of ‘make-up’ for the fact that there are vast communities that are simply not integrating at all, strikes me as somewhat insane. The Liberal mind set seemingly cannot compute the problem and is ripe for being devoured whole.
Jul 21, 2008 - 2:24 pm Eggplant:Saus said:
“The trend to accommodate and bend to this in the west in the name of multiculturalism as a form of ‘make-up’ for the fact that there are vast communities that are simply not integrating at all, strikes me as somewhat insane. The Liberal mind set seemingly cannot compute the problem and is ripe for being devoured whole.”
If the Islamic fascists only devoured moonbats then they’d be doing us a favor (we’re over due for some social cleansing). I suspect the world will be a much different place 15 years from now with a lot fewer moonbats, Islamic fascists and decent rational people.
Jul 21, 2008 - 4:19 pm Teresita:Unfortunately the collateral damage will be unacceptable.
Charles: OT: Michael Yon: The war in Iraq is over. We won. Which means the Iraqi people won. I wish I could say the same for Afghanistan. But that war we clearly are losing
Afghanistan is a stomach cancer operation, and Iraq is a Michael Jackson nose job. About halfway through the procedure on the stomach you told the surgeon to stop working, but keep the area irrigated, while he devoted his time and your money working on the nose job. He kept making mistakes, and your nose kept getting more and more lopped off until it looked like one of those little noses in a Japanese cartoon. Then the surgeon said he was going to quit in a few months, but you can pick his replacement. An old white-haired candidate said he liked the idea of just working on the nose, for a hundred years if that’s what it took. A young black candidate said the stomach cancer was about to metastasize and he promised to shift the whole operating team away from the nose job and just work on the stomach cancer.
Jul 21, 2008 - 5:34 pm NahnCee:Yes, Teresita — Whatevs
Jul 21, 2008 - 6:28 pm Charles:Teresita
I would agree that obama’s trip to the middle east is turning into a smashing success. according to andrea mitchael and others its tightly choreographed. Not a knock on obama. Great presidents and small try to choreograph their overseas visits.
I don’t think there’s any big difference between obama & mccain that more troops need to be sent to afghanistan.
imho it would be more effective however, to have more & more preditors & the like on the afghan/paki border so as to make the taliban & aq sick with fear every time they approach the border. The cost of these kinds of intel/munitions is much less than 16,000 men and their stuff.
what we saw in the last big engagement on the afghan/paki border was that the american men were brave but it was air power that was decisive.
the odd thing is that this air power projection is the dream fulfilled of mr wrong way peach fuzz robert mcnamera, bombadier for curtis lemay in WWII & sec def for kennedy/johnson during the vietnam war.
like many I was for the afghan war but not so keen on the iraq war…however once in I thought it best to pursue it to victory.
If Yon says the war is won then what the hey. the iraq war is won.
Obama is busy getting the credit for victory in Iraq with the help of his press secretaries at the anchor desks of abc,cbs and nbc.
doesn’t sound like anyone in your office watches fox.
Jul 21, 2008 - 6:45 pm cedarford:Doodslang - Totten hears stories of how meek and mild Islam is in Bosnia. It never seems to occur to him that this was a temporary state of affairs, most due to the fact that Islam had nearly died in this region due to its own moribundity. It also makes sense that this last area of the earth to be somewhat messily and incompletely converted into Dar ul Islam might also be one of the last places on earth where the newly invigorated Jihad would finally take root again.
No, Totten is saying that outside Arabia, Islam takes on different cultural expressions. Which seems to be on mark when you observe Islam in Turkey, the ex-Soviet ‘Stans, “Kurdistan”, the Muslim Bengalis, Malaysia, even Iran.
Which is a relief, frankly - compared to the Neocon vision of unending war in nation after nation by American “heroes” deep into the future - to keep Jihad down and “beloved Special Friend” Israel safe with it’s conquered territories and WMD monopoly.
Jul 21, 2008 - 7:58 pm dla:Terrista, wrong as usual wrote…Afghanistan is a stomach cancer operation, and Iraq is a Michael Jackson nose job.
If the liberal loons were wrong about Iraq, claiming it was another Vietnam, how can you be right now about Afganistan?
GWB, the intelligent surgeon, correctly operated on one patient and helped him to recovery. The naysayers said it couldn’t be done. Too risky. Horrible bloodbath, etc. but GWB did it. Despite Obama.
Now GWB’s shift is up and the next patient is prepped. We have a choice between a young, naive surgeon, lacking in experience, who opposed GWB all the way. Or a more experienced surgeon that largely agreed with GWB all the way.
Bush successfully removed the cancerous tumor from Iraq. There’s a different type of cancer in Afghanistan that needs agressive treatment. Do you think Mr.BoJangles is up to it?
Jul 21, 2008 - 8:12 pm Insufficiently Sensitive:The naysayers said it couldn’t be done. Too risky. Horrible bloodbath, etc. but GWB did it. Despite Obama.
And despite the 24/7 efforts of the public-opinion bulldozers in the MSM, who wanted the humiliation of GWB more than they cared for the peace and stability of the Middle East - and all the horrors which would have arisen had they succeeded in bringing him down. Words cannot describe the turpitude of the lords of the presses for the last six years or so.
Jul 21, 2008 - 9:38 pm Dave:And when Uncle Sam managed to send some help to KLA etc, “the usual suspects” were dishing out their usual gloom and doom about how the whole operation would turn things over to the control of drug lords who were also religous fanatics. That was about a decade ago. I do remember it.
Our problem here in the USA is those so-and-so s who have a vested interest in failure.
Jul 21, 2008 - 10:12 pm Sparks:Michael Toten needs to take a sabatical. He has clearly been co-opted. The daily threat of being executed for some off-handed comment about Mohammad can wear a person down to where they don’t even realize their judgement has been undermined.
Morton above has the proportions right on this one in my, ahem.. opinion.
These are dangerous times.
Jul 21, 2008 - 10:41 pm Barry Meislin:to keep Jihad down and “beloved Special Friend” Israel safe
Might this possibly mean that the alternative preferred by all decent people everywhere is “keeping Jihad up and ‘beloved Special Friend’ Israel unsafe”?
(Sounds of Pavlovian drooling….)
And might there possibly be some connection between keeping “‘beloved Special Friend’ Israel safe” (or at least feeling not under dire threat) and the maintaining of some sort of stability in the Middle-East (all things being relative, of course), meaning, in more concrete terms, the unhindered (relative once again) flow of oil?
(Just another reason why the US is keeping Egypt awash in cash, or at least certain, um, sectors in Egypt.)
Actually, what is so confoundedly cornfusing is, who really is America’s “beloved Special Friend”? Israel or Saudi Arabia (or for that matter, those lesser concubines, Egypt or even the Palestinians?, the latter being promised a state they don’t want, because to accept such a state they would have to accept Israel’s secure existence, which to their credit (at least they’re honest about someting) they have no intention of doing—and since they’re being mightily funded not to accept it, why should they even consider it?….)
So takes your pick!!
Goshdarn! Oughtn’t the US to choose its beloved more unequivocally? (And man, all that oil is a pretty darn attractive proposition, when it comes down to it…. Keeping in mind that if it weren’t for Israel, those Iranians would be oh-so friendly, kind of like Turkey, actually). As for those Jew-Zionists, all they can do is cause trouble, because for some reason (inexplicable to all decent people everywhere) they, with the exception of a few pretty intense ones for good measure, would prefer that the state of Israel not be massacreed, scalped, disappeared, kaboomed, erased.
For some inexplicable, unfathomable reason.
(Meanwhile, the sound of Pavlovian drooling is getting louder ‘n louder.)
Jul 22, 2008 - 12:31 am Gary Rosen:“unending war in nation after nation by American “heroes” deep into the future”
Yup, we don’t want to keep C-fudd’s heroes from smashing the heads of little girls.
Jul 22, 2008 - 1:01 am Michael J. Totten:Sparks: Michael Toten needs to take a sabatical. He has clearly been co-opted. The daily threat of being executed for some off-handed comment about Mohammad can wear a person down to where they don’t even realize their judgement has been undermined.
That’s a bunch of crap. You obviously did not read my article.
You know, I actually received a death threat from Hezbollah. It was personal, and delivered to me by a phone call at my place of residence. I told them to fuck off and did not censor my work one iota to appease them.
Nothing like that happens in Kosovo.
Jul 22, 2008 - 2:39 am Albanian:“There are more extremists in Britain than there are in Kosovo, and they are treated more respectfully in Britain than they are in Kosovo. Politically correct Westerners have no idea what they are dealing with.”
The West needs to wake up: No Visas or citizenship if you dress and act like they did in the 7th Century. In Kosovo the wannabe wahhabis will ask Serbia for political asylum, even Serbs will seem like saviors if they push their luck in Kosovo. To that guy who went on a rant about “Muslim invaders”: The only invaders in the region now are the Serbs. Albanians have been there long before hordes of Slavs chased us in the mountains. Just as a reminder: Price Lazar surrendered in 1389 (”Lazar and a good number of his knights surrendered in a vain attempt to save their lives” The Balkan Wars: Conquest, Revolution, and Retribution from the Ottoman Era.. By André Gerolymatos Page 29) and until Russia helped Serbs it was collaboration after collaboration against local Christians. 1500 Serbian knights were at the Constantinople siege–for the Turks, just as they helped the Truks in the Second Kosovo battle and Nicopolis. So save your “Serbs defended Christianity” nonsense. You fought one battle: half surrendered, the other half run away. The Albanians at least did beat 2 sultans in 13 battles.
Jul 22, 2008 - 5:17 am Morton Doodslag:It is one thing to think Mr. Totten is wrong in his assessment of Islam in the region, and quite another to accuse him of cowardice. That is wrong and it is grossly unfair.
I reiterate several points with regard to the mistakes he’s making viz. Islam in the region: that his characterization of the meakness of the current brand of Islam is a horribly wrong diagnosis and ignores the historic periodicity of blatant genocidal Jihad which animates them, that Islamic Jihad has and will continue to infect Kosovar Muslims, and that the Kosovar Muslims are not somehow magically immune from the terrorist pandemic that is gripping the rest of the Islamic world.
Mr. Totten has bought hook line and sinker the narrative which depicts the local Muslims as meek victims of nasty Nazi-like genocidal Serbs. This cartoon is required in order to simplify the conflict into a morality play that expiates catastrophically wrong American and European actions in the conflict. The Muslims do everything in their power to perpetuate this hideous propaganda of their meekness and victimhood.
The extremity of Mr. Totten’s coolaid consumption was epitomized by his recent comparison of Kosovo as the “Israel of the Balkans” - a revolting conflations
Violent genocidal Islamic Jihad is the only reason Muslims reside in the region in the first place. Muslims have gradually ethnically cleansed or converted locals to Islam through terror and intimidation as the opportunity arose. Does Mr. Totten think these white Europeans “converted” to Islam of their free will? It represents a blinkered extremely short view, and a highly selective reading of the roiling history of this cauldron of Jihadi conquest. Islam is still working on dissolving the final sinews of this former Western bastion and claiming the region as a permanent part of the House of Islam. The groteque mistake of helping to create Kosovo is one more nail in the coffin of the West, and one more notch in the sword of Islam. Hopefully this will someday be recognized for the idiotic and monstrous blunder that it is. Fantastic narratives which whitewash the endless crimes of the Muslim invaders, sugar coat the role of Islam in the gradual but utter destruction of the region, and vilify the true victims of that murderous ongoing Islamic Jihad which has been and currently is being waged by those Muslims are reprehensible.
Jul 22, 2008 - 7:09 am Scott:Perhaps I’ve scanned Totten’s article, Richard’s observations, and everyone’s comments too quickly but HAS ANYONE MENTIONED THE INFLUENCE OF COMMUNISM?
Totten accurately describes Kosovar Albanians as European, but this should not be viewed as something that magically happened. The Yugoslavian state imposed an artificial unity that suppressed ethnic and religious differences. After the collapse of communism, these differences reasserted themselves in different permutations throughout the former Yugoslavia. Totten views the “muslim lite” phenomenon in Kosovo as if it is permanent. Hey, ethnicity is hard to change (hence the Albanian vs. Serb dynamic here) but religious fervency can change rather quickly.
Look at Turkey, folks. They were officially secular a generation ago and now the nation is lapsing back into its pre-Attaturk identity. Can the same thing happen in Kosovo? It’s foolish to dismiss the possibility as Totten does. Islam does not have a history of peaceful coexistence (spare me the lectures because I took the full syllabus of Islam, Middle East, and Arabic courses at the University of Virginia in the 1980s before the “religion of peace” propaganda was required). Kosovars should reject Islam in its entirety before they start copying Turkey’s downward trend.
Jul 22, 2008 - 12:20 pm Zenster:Terasita: A young black candidate said the stomach cancer was about to metastasize and he promised to shift the whole operating team away from the nose job and just work on the stomach cancer.
Why don’t you listen to your “young black candidate” bumble through an unscripted response when being questioned about success in Iraq.
Any claim that this supremely Empty Suit™ has even an iota of vision should be submitted to the emperor’s tailors.
ceaderford: Which is a relief, frankly - compared to the Neocon vision of unending war in nation after nation by American “heroes” deep into the future - to keep Jihad down and “beloved Special Friend” Israel safe with it’s conquered territories and WMD monopoly.
Your anti-Semitic slip is showing. Israel’s “WMD monopoly” is probably the one thing that is keeping it and much of the MME (Muslim Middle East) alive. This will likely be borne out in horrific detail should Iran ever acquire nuclear weapons.
Islam is so Hell bent on genocide that it simply cannot restrain even its least sane members in Tehran from forcing Israel to invoke the Samson Option, which will slag much of the MME. That “WMD monopoly” you speak so derisively of is all that stands between an ongoing tenuous low-level conflict and total annihilation.
dla: Bush successfully removed the cancerous tumor from Iraq.
While I grudgingly admire GWB’s tenacity in taking the fight to our Muslim enemies, in no way has Iraq’s cancerous tumor been fully removed. To do that would require excising shari’a law and that clearly DID NOT happen. We all know what the partial removal of a tumor portends.
Jul 22, 2008 - 12:44 pm RAH:Scott’s comment has a lot of validity. Turkey 50 years ago was very cosmopolitan. It is getting less now under the influence of fundamental islamicism. Look at Egypt 50 years ago they were very modern in dress and manners. It is quite possible that Kosova can change. Iran back in the Shah’s time was turning European.
The resurgence of fundamental islamicism is from the retreat of European and Great Britain control over the region and the reduced influence of Western Europe.
However Kosova and Albania and Bosnia have managed to convert to western society and I am glad that they embrace Islam light. Seems to me they are really more Christian in outlook but never bothered to change over in name
I very much enjoyed the view into the area. It created a desire to travel over there and get a more in depth look.
Jul 22, 2008 - 4:10 pm Gary Rosen:“Your anti-Semitic slip is showing”
I’ll bet C-fudd sees himself as the next Eva Braun.
Jul 23, 2008 - 12:23 am NahnCee:The resurgence of fundamental islamicism is from the retreat of European and Great Britain control over the region and the reduced influence of Western Europe.
It seems to me that the things inherent within Islam itself might have a thing or two to do with the perceived failure of Western mores and values in the Middle East, and then the ensuing failure of the governments who uphold those values. Things like corruption, misogyny, lack of education, and no rule of law when practiced daily and in-depth for decades and centuries have *got* to overcome a shallow thin veneer of civilization laid on by the Brits or the French in a few years.
I don’t think it’s fair to blame the plight of the Arabs on “retreat of the British”. You get the government you elect or choose and to me, the Arabs are fine with living in sewage and filth and being ripped off by their politicians or they’d change it.
Alternatively they probably have just accepted their lifestyle in an “inshallah” way, not realizing that there are other ways to live and behave. America kicking in their door, sending in the cream of the crop of our young people to act as role models, and giving them newspapers and television sets tuned to the outside world has got to make a difference in showing them that they do *not* have to necessarily live their wretched little lives squatting in a mud hut breathing in their own sewage.
Then, if they still choose to continue to live and follow the old ways, inshallah, and we’ll probably have to end up killing the whole kit and caboodle of them.
Jul 23, 2008 - 7:08 am Avital Pilpel:>>>>>to keep Jihad down
A good idea, unless you like genocide and that sort of thing.
Jul 24, 2008 - 6:23 pm Avital Pilpel:>>>>>>>To do that would require excising shari’a law and that clearly DID NOT happen.
The question is *what kind* of Shari’a law. If it applies in theory, or only for religious matters, that would be one thing. If it’s the Wahhabi version, that would be something else.
To give you an example: did you know Sharia law is recognized in Israel? As is Jewish religious law? This doesn’t make Israel a theocracy.
Why? Because in both cases the laws apply (a) only to those who volunteer for them to apply to them, and then (b) only in purely religious or personal issues (e.g., the state recognizes religious marriages), and (c) it was simply a case of recognizing long-established customs in both the religious Jewish and Muslim populations.
If it’s *that* kind of Shari’a law, it can work out in practice quite well with a modern democracy. The problems begin when the Wahhabis butt in.
Same, incidentally, for Sharia’s demand for killing heretics (say). In theory, Jewish religious law demands the same punishment to anyone daring to work on the Shabbath (Saturday). .
Only, the sages of the Talmud made it clear that to deserve death you must (a) have lived during the time the Jewish Sanhedrin was operating (e.g., not for the last 2000 years); (b) been constantly warned both in advance and during your heresy by two male adult witnesses that what you’re doing is a crime punishable by death; (c) be condemned unanimously by a Sanhedrin panel made of, I think, 23 judges.
Needless to say, this is not a practical possiblity. If Sharia death penalties are of *this* nature, I won’t care.
Jul 24, 2008 - 6:37 pm SpeakEasy:I wish I could claim it as my own, but I heard on a thread (perhaps on this site since there are some very gifted cotributors) that the Muslim religion a vector for the virus of radical Islam. That sounds about right to me. Being a follower of Islam does not make you ‘radical’ but the condition could manifest itself if not monitored carefully.
The fact that there is no distinction between the religion and the rule of law easily lends itself to abuse, much in the same way early Christian churches abused their power and tried to forcibly convert unbelievers (in this case non-Christians).
So I think Totten’s reporting sounds accurate (I take his word for it as he is there and has a much better understanding than I) but the important thing to be mindful of is it could change easily if the wrong cult of personality gains power in the region. THAT is the thing that makes me nervous with ANY form of Islam.
Oh, and Avital Pilpel, since jihad is war, it can not be considered genocide to fight against, and yes kill, those who would kill you first. Grow up.
Jul 29, 2008 - 6:30 am poetess:Michael J. Totten said:
“Nothing [Threats] like that happens in Kosovo.”
Why should they Michael, when U.S. and so called journalist like you are doing their [Albanian thugs] bidding.In other words Americans are serving useful purpose to them.
Accept Western/infidel help for as long as it furthers your territorial ambitions; then, once the great powers are no longer willing to carry you to the next stage, revert to “traditional” methods and take up arms against them. This has been the modus operandi of Islamic conquest for the past several decades. So either we’re looking at a striking confluence of methodology between Islam and “Albanianism” — which is strongly bound by nationalist and clan loyalties — or its’ no coincidence at all.
Those Albanian weapons, meanwhile, have been turned against the area’s Western benefactors for some time already. When shot at by Albanians in trying to protect Serbs, KFOR troops are directed to flee rather than return fire, which would draw attention to the region and beg the question, “Why are the people we went to war for shooting at us?”
In addition to the intermittent threats http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,,4109749-103558,00.html to go to war against NATO (which is in addition to actually shooting at peacekeepers since 2001) http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/09/world/europe/09kosovo.html?ex=1331096400&en=63e7bc2a9d9e8da1&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss , it turns out that both KLA and its mujahideen accomplices were fighting Americans at the same time that Americans were fighting the Serbs for them. As one American peacekeeper who was deployed to the area admitted last week in an article meant to defend http://www.americanthinker.com/2007/05/kosovo_albania_and_jihad.html Albanians, “One of our central missions was to protect ancient Christian churches that the Mujahideen were blowing up. Our area experienced the occasional IED and drive by shooting almost never aimed at US forces.”
This would help explain how an Albanian applicant to al Qaeda could claim, “I have Kosovo Liberation Army combat experience against Serb and American forces. I need no further training. I recommend (suicide) operations against (amusement) parks like Disney.” (Emphasis added.) http://www.usatoday.com/news/sept11/2001/11/26/cover.htm
Rather than rule of law, religious freedom, ethnic diversity, equal justice and civil rights, Kosovo is governed by lawless, tribalistic, blood-code-following, clan-oriented mob justice. While reports out of Serbia concern debates in public schools over Evolution versus Intelligent Design theory — similar to our own — a typical report out of Kosovo concerned a debate over whether to kill the KFOR (NATO) mascot because the dog was Serbian.
“We’re defending our way of life,” our leaders told us in 1999. Perversely enshrining those ‘common values,’ a crude replica of the Statue of Liberty overlooks our mono-ethnic handiwork from atop the Victory Hotel where the American flag hangs upside-down just a few yards below. Nearby are Bill Clinton Boulevard and Wesley Clark Avenue — tributes cited recently as examples of the area’s pro-Americanism. (There are also streets named for Eliot Engel, Bob Dole and Madeleine Albright.) Meanwhile, the former terrorists whom we installed as the “Kosovo Protection Force” and as the legitimate government of the province attend annual July 4th celebrations at the U.S. Consulate in Pristina. One proposed banner for the competition to design “Kosova’s” new flag mimics the American flag, with the two-headed black Albanian eagle in the corner where the 50 stars would be, plus red and white stripes.
Great. The narco-terrorist gangster state we created is pro-American. Are we so desperate for an endorsement that we must grasp it even if it comes from a terror-friendly horde, our support of whom is already coming home to roost?
Before you accept Albanian pro-Americanism, you must first ask what made Albanians anti-Serb. Then you must look at photos of what the KLA did to its enemies, so that when you’re exchanging niceties and recipes with your Albanian neighbors, keep in mind that, by and large, the KLA terrorists remain their national heroes.
Aug 10, 2008 - 8:41 am