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	<title>Comments on: Fear and loathing in Islamabad</title>
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		<title>By: Bob Murphy</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/09/20/fear-and-loathing-in-islamabad/comment-page-2/#comment-13417</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Murphy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Sep 2008 22:59:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/09/20/fear-and-loathing-in-islamabad/#comment-13417</guid>
		<description>I find anything that denies common humanity offensive, in principle, NahnCee.
It is, however, a matter of degree.
Jewish exclusiveness I find (having grown up in San Francisco aka Tel Aviv West)amusing and not threatening. I mean how threatening can you find a culture that swings chickens around their heads in rituals and has made kvetching an art form, bless them.
Muslim fundamentalism has me on a short fuze because it is a direct challenge to a civilization I love (for all its faults).
Given all that, I will not act like an exclusivist, a dualist to the nth degree unless provoked at which point I am quite happy about dealing with them to whatever degree necessary without any remorse at all.
That becomes rapidly apparent to anyone that meets me.
Given all that, I have been honored as a fellow human being and perhaps fellow madman wherever I have travelled including Arab lands.
That is largely because of the rapport I feel towards my fellow human beings. A rapport encouraged by the promise of retribution here and now if betrayed.
As far as rapport goes, I actually find many women unfathomable in terms of logic or reason, far more so than most men in quite alien cultures. 
I think a warrior type mentality can give guys a shortcut to understanding and/or respecting each other and acting honorably. I can sense other people of that type everywhere I go and they likewise. 
That was even the case when I drove longhaul trucks through eastern European communist countries in the 80s, American passport and all. The border guards and I recognised each other. I was treated well (and I gave them tokens of my appreciation on the way through customs:)).
AS for gals, even when I have no idea of their underpinning logic I do not find them threatening. 
For the most part, their apparently innate jealousy, and the frequent triumph of emotion and chatter mind over intellect or spiritual self tend to make them self-limiting. 
Far be it from me to try to limit them when they do such a good job on themselves.
Personally my taste runs to the wild ones. Love &#039;em to bits. But the volatility is always there. They come and go. 
I told my last and most outstanding &quot;partner&quot; &quot;the next time I want something to pat, I&#039;ll get a dawg&quot; when she was on her way out after succumbing to her addictions.
Covering the eyes is the last straw for me. It is a rejection of humanity that I find socially unacceptable and insulting.
Up to that I couldn&#039;t care less.
Remember that Cheech and Chong record with the pregnant bride with a bag over her head on the cover?:)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I find anything that denies common humanity offensive, in principle, NahnCee.<br />
It is, however, a matter of degree.<br />
Jewish exclusiveness I find (having grown up in San Francisco aka Tel Aviv West)amusing and not threatening. I mean how threatening can you find a culture that swings chickens around their heads in rituals and has made kvetching an art form, bless them.<br />
Muslim fundamentalism has me on a short fuze because it is a direct challenge to a civilization I love (for all its faults).<br />
Given all that, I will not act like an exclusivist, a dualist to the nth degree unless provoked at which point I am quite happy about dealing with them to whatever degree necessary without any remorse at all.<br />
That becomes rapidly apparent to anyone that meets me.<br />
Given all that, I have been honored as a fellow human being and perhaps fellow madman wherever I have travelled including Arab lands.<br />
That is largely because of the rapport I feel towards my fellow human beings. A rapport encouraged by the promise of retribution here and now if betrayed.<br />
As far as rapport goes, I actually find many women unfathomable in terms of logic or reason, far more so than most men in quite alien cultures.<br />
I think a warrior type mentality can give guys a shortcut to understanding and/or respecting each other and acting honorably. I can sense other people of that type everywhere I go and they likewise.<br />
That was even the case when I drove longhaul trucks through eastern European communist countries in the 80s, American passport and all. The border guards and I recognised each other. I was treated well (and I gave them tokens of my appreciation on the way through customs:)).<br />
AS for gals, even when I have no idea of their underpinning logic I do not find them threatening.<br />
For the most part, their apparently innate jealousy, and the frequent triumph of emotion and chatter mind over intellect or spiritual self tend to make them self-limiting.<br />
Far be it from me to try to limit them when they do such a good job on themselves.<br />
Personally my taste runs to the wild ones. Love &#8216;em to bits. But the volatility is always there. They come and go.<br />
I told my last and most outstanding &#8220;partner&#8221; &#8220;the next time I want something to pat, I&#8217;ll get a dawg&#8221; when she was on her way out after succumbing to her addictions.<br />
Covering the eyes is the last straw for me. It is a rejection of humanity that I find socially unacceptable and insulting.<br />
Up to that I couldn&#8217;t care less.<br />
Remember that Cheech and Chong record with the pregnant bride with a bag over her head on the cover?:)</p>
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		<title>By: NahnCee</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/09/20/fear-and-loathing-in-islamabad/comment-page-2/#comment-13381</link>
		<dc:creator>NahnCee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Sep 2008 16:24:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/09/20/fear-and-loathing-in-islamabad/#comment-13381</guid>
		<description>Bob - you need to get your Islamic dress code right.

Hijab is the head scarf.  It&#039;s frequently worn with a full-length trench-coat looking garment.

Burka is the blue tent worn in Afghanistan.  It has a little beanie hat on top with mesh sewn in across the eyes to see out of.  But it&#039;s full length and a tent.

Abaya is the black robe worn in Saudi Arabia which is also full-length and a tent.  It can be worn with the face open and viewable, or with a veil across the nose so that only the eyes are available.

The niqab is the more severe version of the abaya where the whole face is covered, including the forehead, with a little string thingy going along the nose from the forehead material to the material under the eyes to make sure it doesn&#039;t slip down under the nose. The only thing viewable are two beady little eyes peering out on either side of the string thingy.  I think the niqab is also the version where the female entity wears gloves so that infidels are denied the pleasure of seeing her sweaty wrists.

Fletcher Christian specifically said he closed the door in the face of an entity wearing the niqab, not the hijab.  In other words, s/he was being as offensive to Western society as s/he could possibly be.  Frequently niqab-wearers are Western women who have converted to Islam and who are going overboard in their zealotry to demonstrate how much they despise the country and religion they were born into.

And, don&#039;t you think if the female involved did belong to a man who was that strict that he would be allowing her out on her own to begin with?  

I think if you come up against a person in either a niqab or a burka on the streets of London or Manhattan or Paris, the first question you need to ask yourself is what are they hiding dynamite-wise under that get-up, and the second question is whether it&#039;s a man or a woman because the nonverbal message is one of arrogance and hatred, and not peaceful coexistance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bob &#8211; you need to get your Islamic dress code right.</p>
<p>Hijab is the head scarf.  It&#8217;s frequently worn with a full-length trench-coat looking garment.</p>
<p>Burka is the blue tent worn in Afghanistan.  It has a little beanie hat on top with mesh sewn in across the eyes to see out of.  But it&#8217;s full length and a tent.</p>
<p>Abaya is the black robe worn in Saudi Arabia which is also full-length and a tent.  It can be worn with the face open and viewable, or with a veil across the nose so that only the eyes are available.</p>
<p>The niqab is the more severe version of the abaya where the whole face is covered, including the forehead, with a little string thingy going along the nose from the forehead material to the material under the eyes to make sure it doesn&#8217;t slip down under the nose. The only thing viewable are two beady little eyes peering out on either side of the string thingy.  I think the niqab is also the version where the female entity wears gloves so that infidels are denied the pleasure of seeing her sweaty wrists.</p>
<p>Fletcher Christian specifically said he closed the door in the face of an entity wearing the niqab, not the hijab.  In other words, s/he was being as offensive to Western society as s/he could possibly be.  Frequently niqab-wearers are Western women who have converted to Islam and who are going overboard in their zealotry to demonstrate how much they despise the country and religion they were born into.</p>
<p>And, don&#8217;t you think if the female involved did belong to a man who was that strict that he would be allowing her out on her own to begin with?  </p>
<p>I think if you come up against a person in either a niqab or a burka on the streets of London or Manhattan or Paris, the first question you need to ask yourself is what are they hiding dynamite-wise under that get-up, and the second question is whether it&#8217;s a man or a woman because the nonverbal message is one of arrogance and hatred, and not peaceful coexistance.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob Murphy</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/09/20/fear-and-loathing-in-islamabad/comment-page-2/#comment-13349</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Murphy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Sep 2008 09:24:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/09/20/fear-and-loathing-in-islamabad/#comment-13349</guid>
		<description>@NahnCee,
Maybe the gal in the hijab or whatever they call that bag was married in the old country and has to abide by her husband&#039;s demands.
I tend to look at eyes. Those gals are not supposed to look men in the eye but they loosen up a bit after being here awhile. 
Maybe they come from a family where the father will kill them for wearing &quot;suggestive&quot; dress. I don&#039;t know. I take them as they come. 
You are making yourself up as judge and jury here, NahnCee and you have no idea of the forces at work when you see some woman wearing one of those monstrosities.
I think you should take them as they come. You just don&#039;t know how much volition is involved from the person in hijab.
I agree about full face covering. That should be illegal.
One thing tempers my natural repugnance towards hijab. I was taught by Irish nuns in primary school and those habits looked like they came from the same school of fashion as most of those literally outlandish outfits some muslim women wear.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@NahnCee,<br />
Maybe the gal in the hijab or whatever they call that bag was married in the old country and has to abide by her husband&#8217;s demands.<br />
I tend to look at eyes. Those gals are not supposed to look men in the eye but they loosen up a bit after being here awhile.<br />
Maybe they come from a family where the father will kill them for wearing &#8220;suggestive&#8221; dress. I don&#8217;t know. I take them as they come.<br />
You are making yourself up as judge and jury here, NahnCee and you have no idea of the forces at work when you see some woman wearing one of those monstrosities.<br />
I think you should take them as they come. You just don&#8217;t know how much volition is involved from the person in hijab.<br />
I agree about full face covering. That should be illegal.<br />
One thing tempers my natural repugnance towards hijab. I was taught by Irish nuns in primary school and those habits looked like they came from the same school of fashion as most of those literally outlandish outfits some muslim women wear.</p>
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		<title>By: Mad Fiddler</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/09/20/fear-and-loathing-in-islamabad/comment-page-2/#comment-13337</link>
		<dc:creator>Mad Fiddler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Sep 2008 06:01:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/09/20/fear-and-loathing-in-islamabad/#comment-13337</guid>
		<description>Last spring about the time of the confirmation of the Israeli strike on the Syrian Al Kibar nuclear facility I chanced upon an article about Uranium in phosphate deposits in the middle east&lt;/a&gt;, published about 15 March 2008 by &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.ne.uiuc.edu/faculty/ragheb.php&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Dr. Magdi Ragheb&lt;/a&gt;, an associate professor at University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign. 

I commented then &lt;a href=&quot;http://fallbackbelmont.blogspot.com/2008/04/syrian-nuclear-program.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;in Belmont&#039;s old location&lt;/a&gt;, and several points seem worth recalling: 

(1) There is a pretty huge amount of Uranium to be extracted from phosphate rocks, and the Middle East has vast phosphate deposits. Several sources indicate that Syria has one fifth of the phosphates in the region.

(2) As early as 2001, the International Atomic Energy Agency was aware that Syria was extracting Uranium from phosphates near Homs, and had nominally imposed some sort of safeguard provisions. Quite obviously, those &quot;safeguard provisions&quot; were utterly inadequate to prevent the Syrians from applying the extracted Uranium to a nuclear weapons program.

The occurrence of nuclear fuel AND bomb material in these deposits has serious implications for conflicts and alliances around the world, in addition to the specific security problems posed by facilities like Al-Kibar.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Last spring about the time of the confirmation of the Israeli strike on the Syrian Al Kibar nuclear facility I chanced upon an article about Uranium in phosphate deposits in the middle east, published about 15 March 2008 by <a href="http://www.ne.uiuc.edu/faculty/ragheb.php" rel="nofollow">Dr. Magdi Ragheb</a>, an associate professor at University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign. </p>
<p>I commented then <a href="http://fallbackbelmont.blogspot.com/2008/04/syrian-nuclear-program.html" rel="nofollow">in Belmont&#8217;s old location</a>, and several points seem worth recalling: </p>
<p>(1) There is a pretty huge amount of Uranium to be extracted from phosphate rocks, and the Middle East has vast phosphate deposits. Several sources indicate that Syria has one fifth of the phosphates in the region.</p>
<p>(2) As early as 2001, the International Atomic Energy Agency was aware that Syria was extracting Uranium from phosphates near Homs, and had nominally imposed some sort of safeguard provisions. Quite obviously, those &#8220;safeguard provisions&#8221; were utterly inadequate to prevent the Syrians from applying the extracted Uranium to a nuclear weapons program.</p>
<p>The occurrence of nuclear fuel AND bomb material in these deposits has serious implications for conflicts and alliances around the world, in addition to the specific security problems posed by facilities like Al-Kibar.</p>
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		<title>By: NahnCee</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/09/20/fear-and-loathing-in-islamabad/comment-page-2/#comment-13324</link>
		<dc:creator>NahnCee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Sep 2008 05:06:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/09/20/fear-and-loathing-in-islamabad/#comment-13324</guid>
		<description>Think of it this way, Bob -- if the humanoid is wearing a burka or a niqab, then how do you *know* it&#039;s a lady?  You have my full permission to reach out and grab a handful just to make sure before you open the door, if you feel you must.

I&#039;ll give &#039;em their hijabs, if they feel they must.  But anything that covers the face is offensive and the people wearing those garments must know that it&#039;s offensive in the West to do so.  If whoever is wearing that garb has determined it&#039;s their right to be offensive to me, then why on earth should I be polite back?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Think of it this way, Bob &#8212; if the humanoid is wearing a burka or a niqab, then how do you *know* it&#8217;s a lady?  You have my full permission to reach out and grab a handful just to make sure before you open the door, if you feel you must.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll give &#8216;em their hijabs, if they feel they must.  But anything that covers the face is offensive and the people wearing those garments must know that it&#8217;s offensive in the West to do so.  If whoever is wearing that garb has determined it&#8217;s their right to be offensive to me, then why on earth should I be polite back?</p>
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		<title>By: Bob Murphy</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/09/20/fear-and-loathing-in-islamabad/comment-page-2/#comment-13301</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Murphy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Sep 2008 02:25:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/09/20/fear-and-loathing-in-islamabad/#comment-13301</guid>
		<description>@NahnCee
I wear a Celtic cross (though I am no longer Catholic) and am very polite while never taking my eyes off any one who identifies him or herself as Muslim.
They never mistake my intentions or attitudes. 
They gave me respect when I was in their countries. And they acted honorably towards me.
I return the courtesy until I have reason to do otherwise. 
And I am watchful, very watchful.
To be rude to them unnecessarily is to beome part of the problem.
But I concede nothing if one of them pushes.
Funny thing is that no one pushes. They can tell. There&#039;s going to be a problem if they do.
It must be a guy thing, NahnCee.:)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@NahnCee<br />
I wear a Celtic cross (though I am no longer Catholic) and am very polite while never taking my eyes off any one who identifies him or herself as Muslim.<br />
They never mistake my intentions or attitudes.<br />
They gave me respect when I was in their countries. And they acted honorably towards me.<br />
I return the courtesy until I have reason to do otherwise.<br />
And I am watchful, very watchful.<br />
To be rude to them unnecessarily is to beome part of the problem.<br />
But I concede nothing if one of them pushes.<br />
Funny thing is that no one pushes. They can tell. There&#8217;s going to be a problem if they do.<br />
It must be a guy thing, NahnCee.:)</p>
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		<title>By: Tony</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/09/20/fear-and-loathing-in-islamabad/comment-page-2/#comment-13297</link>
		<dc:creator>Tony</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Sep 2008 02:04:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/09/20/fear-and-loathing-in-islamabad/#comment-13297</guid>
		<description>Yeh Bob M, that&#039;s how you can tell I&#039;m a real liberal, and not a modern Bizzaro-liberal: I have a sense of humor.

Thanks for noticing.

Durable persistence of DESIGN, that&#039;s the problem, not the particular devices that the DESIGN will always spit out.

Dude, do not stand in front of a .357, no matter how old it looks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeh Bob M, that&#8217;s how you can tell I&#8217;m a real liberal, and not a modern Bizzaro-liberal: I have a sense of humor.</p>
<p>Thanks for noticing.</p>
<p>Durable persistence of DESIGN, that&#8217;s the problem, not the particular devices that the DESIGN will always spit out.</p>
<p>Dude, do not stand in front of a .357, no matter how old it looks.</p>
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		<title>By: NahnCee</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/09/20/fear-and-loathing-in-islamabad/comment-page-2/#comment-13294</link>
		<dc:creator>NahnCee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Sep 2008 01:49:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/09/20/fear-and-loathing-in-islamabad/#comment-13294</guid>
		<description>Oh, bullshit.  It&#039;s called &quot;peer group pressure&quot;, and the Muslims need to know from their peer group of fellow human beings that what they have become is unacceptable.  I think slamming a few doors in the face of a female who is so in *our* face about her antiquated beliefs as to wear one of those totally horrendous (and probably illegal) niqabs is a perfectly sane reaction.  I just think doors need to also be slammed in the faces of male Muslims, too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, bullshit.  It&#8217;s called &#8220;peer group pressure&#8221;, and the Muslims need to know from their peer group of fellow human beings that what they have become is unacceptable.  I think slamming a few doors in the face of a female who is so in *our* face about her antiquated beliefs as to wear one of those totally horrendous (and probably illegal) niqabs is a perfectly sane reaction.  I just think doors need to also be slammed in the faces of male Muslims, too.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob Murphy</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/09/20/fear-and-loathing-in-islamabad/comment-page-2/#comment-13288</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Murphy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Sep 2008 00:59:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/09/20/fear-and-loathing-in-islamabad/#comment-13288</guid>
		<description>@Fletcher
That muslim woman in the bag is still a human until she proves otherwise.
Gratuitous alienation is unnecessary and unwise.
You fall into their trap.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Fletcher<br />
That muslim woman in the bag is still a human until she proves otherwise.<br />
Gratuitous alienation is unnecessary and unwise.<br />
You fall into their trap.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob Murphy</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/09/20/fear-and-loathing-in-islamabad/comment-page-2/#comment-13286</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Murphy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Sep 2008 00:51:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/09/20/fear-and-loathing-in-islamabad/#comment-13286</guid>
		<description>@Tony!!!
You speak of nuclear weapons and you carry a wheel gun??? hahahahaha You got a sense of humor.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Tony!!!<br />
You speak of nuclear weapons and you carry a wheel gun??? hahahahaha You got a sense of humor.</p>
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