137 Comments

1. Pat Baker:

McCain overall. He gets under Obama’s skin.

Sep 26, 2008 - 8:09 pm 2. Tim Smith:

I think McCaincould have been more crisp but overall I believe he won. I think Obama showed weakness in that he kept saying I agree with John. It is becausce he lacks the experience to take command and deliver his own opinions on Foreign Policy. He also avoided what he would cut to cover his spending proposals.

Sep 26, 2008 - 8:23 pm 3. whit:

Obama came out swinging, ready to rumble but McCain came back. Who won. Who knows. Looks like a draw to me.

Obama did not stutter and stammer, possibly because he was repeating what he has said a thousand times on the campaign trail.

McCain missed a big opportunity to point out that it has been repeatedly shown that tax cuts lead to increased receipts in the treasury.

McCain carried on about two sentences too long on the issue of veterans but his command of foreign leaders and the issues was impressive and not matched by Obama.

Also, I thought McCain scored well on Pakistan. It’s as if Obama, like some of us haven’t figured that COIN is the only way we’re going to resolve the problem of the Taliban and al-Qaeda in the FATA.

The big question which may be answered at this election is do the American people want a big nanny state. Have they been convinced that they’re hurting and struggling and must have a government bailout.

Obama plays to the downtrodden, the oppressed, the victims. McCain tries to appeal to the strengths of the American character. Obama plays his role well but McCain is no Ronald Reagan.

It was very interesting when McCain went after Obama for saying that it was irresponsible or imprudent for him to say “outloud” that he would go into Pakistan, Obama came back with you said, “Bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb Iran.”

Sep 26, 2008 - 8:24 pm 4. F:

Getting under your opponent’s skin is not a win, although it might lead to the opponent making a misstep. Regrettably, Obama seemed to get more sure of his information, demonstrating that self-assurance will often trump facts. McCain’s knowledge of the places and players that have affected our national security was masterful, but I suspect journalists will gloss over that. Obama’s “I have a plan” will sit well with some listeners, but sounded like the promises of a snake oil salesman. Bottom line is, I’m afraid, no one will change sides as a result of this debate. I think for anyone to change sides will require a major blunder on the part of one of the candidates. F

Sep 26, 2008 - 8:24 pm 5. Paul:

McCain slightly.

I was hoping for a strong thematic attack on Obama illuminating his preference for actions that weaken America and embolden our enemies. McCain didn’t do that. There was no philosophical discussion of difference in approaches from leftists and conservatives. There was also no linkage to Obama’s many anti- American friends and positions. McCain attacked Obama quite a bit, but didn’t clearly knock him out. I wanted Obama put away for good in this debate. Didn’t happen.

Obama tacked way to the right in this debate from his earlier positions, denying in many instances what he had said in the past. The problem for McCain is the media will let Obama get away with lying about his past positions.

It will be interesting to see if and how the peaceniks react to some of the bellicose talk from Obama. They probably know it was just the more responsible facade the Messiah needs to assume to win.

Sep 26, 2008 - 8:28 pm 6. Nine-of-Diamonds:

I missed the first part but I heard it didn’t go too well for McCain.

Obama had adequate delivery – much better than I expected. Very disrespectful, the way he refers to his opponent as “John” almost all the time. Still too many uh’s & hesitations. Pretty sharp with the economic questions, if you ignore the fact that his ideas are mostly wrongheaded. His finish was weak & came across as overly critical of America – caring more about what foreigners think of us than National Security.

Oh, and the Messiah’s bracelet stunt looked absurd – he actually had to check & see what the name was.

Unless I missed it at the very beginning, McCain passed up some golden opportunities to tie Obama to the financial mess. Didn’t press Obama hard enough on earmarks or how much money Raines & the others took from Fan. & Fred. He also didn’t call O on anti-Semitic foreign policy advisors, campaign activists coddling Ahmadinejad, etc. Not good. Maybe he’s waiting for the later debates to do this, or maybe he wants Sarah P. to play “bad cop”. JM’s going to need to be more aggressive. The MSM is pinning the economy on Republicans alone, and the debates are the best chance to correct that misconception.

On the plus side, he totally schooled Obama on the Kissinger comments. Not to mention meeting Dinner Jacket without preconditions. Johnny M. obviously has a very thorough knowledge of the Georgia situation. Also, good job mentioning that O never convened the committee that he supposedly led.

Overall, McCain 6/10 and Obama 5.5/10. It reminded me of the Battle of the Coral Sea in 1942 – Obama is to USN as McCain is to Imperial Japan. McCain gets the tactical victory b/c of better debating skills overall but does not land a knockout blow. Obama wins strategically because expectations were lower for him & because the media spin in his favor will be a huge boon.

**Important Disclosure** – I listened to it on the radio, so I did not observe body language or expressions. Keep that in mind.

Sep 26, 2008 - 8:34 pm 7. A Conservative Teacher:

I think McCain won. If you read some of my comments on my blog, I picked up on the fact that Obama talked over and over about ideas and thoughts and proposals- but McCain talked about what he had done, legislation he passed, and leadership actions he had done. Obama might be an okay college professor, but he should not be President. See my notes for more thoughts.

Sep 26, 2008 - 8:41 pm 8. Barrett:

I’ve heard some in the spin room say Obama was more informed. My sense is that Obama seemed to be stating what had been hammered into him during his preparation.

McCain was soft on Obama and how his positions could actually make it more dangerous for America. As Paul noted, there was no real juxtaposition of conservative versus liberal philosophy. McCain needed to paint a picture of Obbama as the most leftist Senator with no real world experience with constant flip-flops on policy.

Obama is a dangerous person. Ahmadinejad just endorsed him. Does anyone need to know more?

Sep 26, 2008 - 8:42 pm 9. G.R.Langworth:

I believe that McCain behaved with experience, and Obama talked about his notions.

For those who don’t care about repartee, but are looking into character — which, I suppose, is what presidential selections should really be about — then McCain becomes the obvious choice.

Some folks seemed to like Lehrer and his attempts to get a bit of confrontation, but I don’t think that conflict is particularly becoming in a President, as far as most Americans are concerned.

Sep 26, 2008 - 8:52 pm 10. Blabbertruth:

Obama won but not by a great margin. Obama won on the war in Iraq, Afghanistan, the handling of Iran, energy and the economy.

Sep 26, 2008 - 8:52 pm 11. Bret:

There is no doubt in my mind that Obama won the debate. Most of the national polls are indicating that Obama won the debate 65% to 35%. He had a strong command of the stage, took control of many of the topics, and took McCain to task whenever he distorted the truth.

Sep 26, 2008 - 9:03 pm 12. sirius_sir:

Obama thinks America needs to regain the world’s respect and regard, claiming Bush has trashed our reputation.

That seems a debatable point, as does the contention that Iraq was a mistake and distraction. McCain could have noted that had Obama gotten his way, Saddam would still be in power, we would not know what he was up to, and the A.Q Khan network would still be intact and operational. If Obama was truly as informed and concerned about nuclear proliferation as he pretends, then that last point would give him some pause.

It also must entirely escape Obama that we are regarded and respected quite well in Iraq nowadays–although, sad to say, his running mate, Biden, isn’t so much. Something to do with tri-parting the country. I can only hope Palin will get the chance to pick up and run with that ball.

Sep 26, 2008 - 9:08 pm 13. Dai Alanye:

McCain stared out weak, almost apologetic on the bailout. Obama performed well overall, stammering no more than usual, lying effectively for the most part, but as the debate went on McCain got stronger.

This won’t changed any set opinions, but since McCain finished strongly with Obama on the defensive, he might have gained a few uncommitted.

Sep 26, 2008 - 9:11 pm 14. The Count:

I think this one is going to mostly be in the eye of the beholder. Obama was effective on the economy and McCain helped him by pulling his punches- why???

McCain displayed his wisdom and mastery of foreign policy issues- and got a laugh out of the audience- but would it be enough to counter Obama’s confident recital of bad ideas?

Obama needs to be hammered on the fact that he would have lost Iraq on principle because “al Queda wasn’t there” before we were. That’s not a grown up position.

McCain got Obama to look angry, but McCain seemed to just smile and enjoy the next round.

Slight advantage McCain, but I’m hopelessly biased.

Dying to hear what you think Wretchard!

Sep 26, 2008 - 9:12 pm 15. rabidfox:

Before I worry about the world’s “respect”, I would want to know why they think they don’t “respect” us. Mostly it’s because we aren’t wallowing in socialism. Tough.

Sep 26, 2008 - 9:16 pm 16. Joe Doaks:

how do you get a credible national poll result in an hour?

I wish McCain had called Obama on more of his stretchers, but let’s face it, ‘is not! / is so!’, isn’t good for either of them.

I thought McCain looked at home and Obama looked subdued, pedantic and defensive. Of course he’s always pedantic. But not sure either of them ‘won.’ McCain continues to pleasantly surprise, but I don’t see many hearts and minds being changed. More republicans may feel better about getting up in the morning on election day, but we’re not taking (m)any votes from Obama.

Sep 26, 2008 - 9:16 pm 17. Joe Doaks:

oh, yeah – Line of the night: The next president doesn’t get to decide whether to invade Iraq. Has needed saying for quite a while.

Sep 26, 2008 - 9:20 pm 18. Xixi:

McCain. Not as strong as I would have hoped. Might have won over some uncommitted.

MSM is showing polls heavy in favor of Obama. No surprise there given their agenda.

Sep 26, 2008 - 9:21 pm 19. JFSanders:

McCain, but he could have and should have been a lot more aggressive in pointing out Obama’s inconsistencies.

That said I can see the 527s cranking up now with ads showing in technicolor his lack of ability to speak the truth.

McCain will rue the day he thought to sponsor McCain/Feingold.

Jim

Sep 26, 2008 - 9:21 pm 20. C-SPAN: Debate Hub » Blog Archive » Who Won the Debate?:

[...] Who Won the Debate? September 27, 2008 at 12:26 am [...]

Sep 26, 2008 - 9:26 pm 21. Brian:

1) On a 5 point scale, on the economy Obama won 4 to 3, where McCain seemed a little vague and scattered

2) On foreign policy, McCain won 4 to 2, where he seemed in total control of the facts and their implications. McCain was comfortable, Obama was not.

There are two wild cards.

1) Style and stage presence (Obama was smooth and comfortable throughout, McCain was chisel sharp and wonkish with the foreign policy stuff if not the economic questions). Which do you prefer? Comfort politics, or the old can-do, have-done curmudgeon?

2) The economics questions preceded the foreign policy questions, so the debate ended with McCain in his comfort zone, showing his strength. I think undecided voters will remember that more than they will his scattered thoughts on economics. I think this is big for McCain, and he’s lucky things fell this way.

Sep 26, 2008 - 9:29 pm 22. Pascal:

Xixi I agree. It’s better understood when Ministry of Information is substituted for MSM

Sep 26, 2008 - 9:29 pm 23. whiskey:

Lunz’s focus group overwhelmingly went for Obama. As could be predicted, women, and particularly the younger women, loved Obama. He was the cool, taller, darker, and particularly younger masculine presence. Women love that.

One young women pretty much all but called McCain an old coot. She didn’t care about Vietnam, the past, vets, or anything else but what’s gonna benefit HER.

I think Obama, takes pretty much most women. Not even married women I bet will vote Republican this time. He’s tall, Black, all the cool people like him, he can present himself as the coolest, “pick up artist” in the room. Women are going to go for him big time, as Cheney would say.

However, I think that probably alienates non-Black men.

Sep 26, 2008 - 9:39 pm 24. Dave:

So Act Meany Whack Job from Iran has endorsed Obama? Why doesn’t The One reject that endorsement publicly? Whose votes would he lose?

The KKK endorsed Reagan. He told them where to go. Did not lose a vote.

What gives nowadays?

Sep 26, 2008 - 9:39 pm 25. Alexis:

Neither candidate landed a knockout punch. Obama did well enough to reassure his supporters that he’s the man they want, while McCain won the debate on points. Based upon performance, McCain was better. Based upon point spread, it was a draw.

Neither candidate came across as spontaneous and each candidate was practiced in delivering his canned lines. Interestingly, each man went out of his way to smile at the audience whenever he was irritated by his rival’s digs.

It looks like a close election.

Sep 26, 2008 - 9:45 pm 26. Stephen:

I give it to McCain.

But it is amazing how wrong well-informed debate watchers and listeners can be about the effect of a Presidential debate on the critical undecided voters. To me McCain seemed more likable, more authoritative and a safer choice to be President in such dangerous times. These are the kinds of things the undecideds care about. They don’t give a crap about debating points answered or unanswered, or facts and figures cited.

If the undecideds share my impression of the two personalities on display tonight then McCain takes this election in a walk. But my impressions were formed through a thick filter of bias resulting from months of reading and speculative ferment. Undecided voters won’t be looking through my filter.

Wonder what they’ll do.

Sep 26, 2008 - 9:45 pm 27. Thomas E:

Obama. I was favorably impressed by his answers which were methodical and thought through. When you ask the key questions, what will we do about the economy, what will we do about Iraq, Obama had bullet-pointed answers.

McCain, who I like, answered all this with less substance, and more snark; everything that Obama said was, to him, “a misunderstanding, naivete, etc.” He never proved these claims satisfactorily. I think he did get more “dis”es in, but that hardly makes him seem more qualified.

Sep 26, 2008 - 9:51 pm 28. Stephen:

One indicator that looks good for McCain: Obama’s supporters for the most part have not emphatically declared him the winner. I would certainly expect them to claim victory if they thought the debate was a draw or better. Their reticence gives me hope. If they think Obama lost, and I think Obama lost, maybe he really did lose.

Sep 26, 2008 - 9:51 pm 29. Uncle Jefe:

Most Joe and Jill Americans have been conditioned by the msm to believe that Republicans are greedy capitalists who have taken advantage of the average American, and that the current crisis is the living example of such. Joe and Jill are looking for something different, and McCain failed to pin the Fannie crisis on Acorn (obammy’s homies), Democratic Black National Caucus, Barney Frank, Chris Dodd, Barack Obama, etc…

That opening 10 minutes was excruciating. McCain could’ve skinned obammy alive right then, and taken a nap for the next 90 minutes, if he wasn’t so damn set on showing what a bipartisan gentleman he was.

And Joe and Jill heard obammy tie McCain to 8 years of economic failure leading up to this crisis instead. (No matter how much of a lie it is.)

McCain needs to take the gloves off and pin the Fannie Mae disaster squarely on the pigs that made it happen…the dems, led by Barack Obama.

Sep 26, 2008 - 9:53 pm 30. Tcobb:

I wasn’t much impressed by either of the debaters, but as far as the CONTENT rather than the presentation I would put McCain as the winner. Charisma, like Fortune, is a very fickle goddess, and the cracks in the Big O’s charisma are beginning to show. And I fear, that underneath the facade of that Charisma, is very little substance at all.

Sep 26, 2008 - 10:14 pm 31. Ex-fetus:

Ohhhh…..BAMA started off with a lie then kept adding more.
One of my pet peeves is people that call Iraq a war.
Iraq is a theater or campaign IN a war. Like Afghanistan, it is NOT a war in and of itself.
A global war, which is what we are fighting now, has many theaters. To call each theater a separate war is to misstate the problem. You cannot solve a problem until you know what it is.
Was the North African campaign a war? Or was it part of WW2? Was the Italian campaign a war or part of WW2. How about the Eastern front? The Soviets called it the great patriotic war, but then again, it was the only theater they fought in. For the Soviets WW2 was not a global war. Unless you consider the invasion of Iran a seperate campaign. Since the Iranians didn’t fight back, it wasn’t much of a campaign.
Then there was Ohhhh….BAAMA’s cliam to have offered legislature against the rule change that allowed Fannie and Freddie to run amoke. What a liar! Once it became obvious that McCain wasn’t going to call him on any of his lies, I turned it off. No point in watching Ohhhhh…..BAMA tell fables.
I thought McCain did poorly in the bit I watched. I think he wasted an opportunity.

I don’t think anybody watching changed or made up their minds. For Obama to escape without a loss was a win.

Sep 26, 2008 - 10:15 pm 32. NahnCee:

Whiskey – I wish to gawd you’d quit telling me what women think. It’s a repeated meme / obsession with you, and you are *always* wrong! Just don’t even go there.

///

Bret, would those be the same national polls as that ask their slanted questions of 2/3’s Dem’s and 1/3 Repub’s, and then make sure the 90% of those 2/3’s are black? And you’re *seriously* throwing out there that MSM’s lies, damned lies and statistics are something we should be paying attention to? Silly boy.

Sep 26, 2008 - 10:20 pm 33. NahnCee:

P.S. Read elsewhere that B. Hussein was twitching towards the end. Doesn’t sound very smooth to me. Can anyone verify?

Sep 26, 2008 - 10:21 pm 34. Fat Man:

Obama won by not saying anything totally laughable.

Sep 26, 2008 - 10:28 pm 35. Robohobo:

Obama was downright rude at times. That does not play well to most older audiences. He kept talking over McCain until Big Mac could take it no longer and started hammering back.

On the economy:

‘0′ sounded more knowledgeable until you parse what he had to say then it was just more ‘Hope’ with a side of ‘Change’ topped by a serving of how much ‘main street’ America is ’suffering’. As for me, I have never had it better. And those tax cuts that supposedly did me no good? Hate to tell ya’ but they did.

McCain should have nailed the Dems to the cross right off the bat and given chapter and verse on the who, what, when and why of the current credit debacle. I was somewhat disappointed.

On foreign policy:

‘0′ showed the nation that he is a naif and understands nothing of the world outside of Chicago, Washington and his own very limited, juvenile experiences abroad.

McCain spanked the boy wonder publicly.

BUT, the MSM and most of the blind left will only stand up for their golden child, The ‘0′.

In November, if it does go The ‘0’s way then we are going to get the government we deserve – good and hard.

Sep 26, 2008 - 11:08 pm 36. trangbang68:

Whiskey, Nahncee beat me to it, but your take on women universally supporting Obama was miles from nowhere. Palin alone will pull a lot of women McCain’s way. Obama may be Coolio in the room, but he ain’t Bill Clinton in his prime with them Elvis eyes.

Sep 26, 2008 - 11:30 pm 37. sgi:

Obama is not a good actor and perhaps this is what is disconcerting about him. He is playing a role, playing at running for President, dressed for the part, knows his lines, understands the technique, but can’t quite deliver…because it’s an act. He’s thin. It’s all talk. Does anyone know what his convictions are? I think he does, but he will not say because he knows they would be unacceptable in a President of the United States of America.

I don’t know about twitching, but lecturing, interrupting and glaring, yes.

Sep 26, 2008 - 11:41 pm 38. chiral:

Winning was not enough except to gain a very small number of independents. A better goal was to completely destroy the opponent.

On independents:

Independence is indecision, which is caused by open-mindedness. Thus most independents are soft-headed men and women who desperately want to be “fair”. They will decide at the very last second to vote for whomever they PITY. This can only help democrats.

F: “Regrettably, Obama seemed to get more sure of his information, demonstrating that self-assurance will often trump facts.”

For example, the vast majority who blindly rationalize that their favorite man won. Just by speaking out loudly enough, they can sway many lemmings to vote with the herd.

Sep 26, 2008 - 11:49 pm 39. bobal:

McCain won, as all good American women have already testified, my wife being a representative sample. But, what was the deal with McCain’s flashing psychedelic tie? Couldn’t keep my eyes off of it. Is some subliminal message being sent? Am I hinxed, jinxed, and have I lost control of my vote? Seems like it would have been more appropriate on Jumpin’ Jack Flash.

Sep 27, 2008 - 12:03 am 40. frank capp:

Far too many “nuanced” and guarded opinions here for the Belmont Club. We’re talking not about the completely discredited MSM but about Independents, which were headed McCain’s way. McCain won this debate – strong, mastery of the facts, confident, enjoying himself. While a few people were surprised to see Obamamessiah with a five o’clock shadow, grumpy, miffed, “Me tooing” eight times – as someone said it here – like a school marm, not a Commander in Chief. The Independents and Reagan Democrats are not impressed. Which is why, figure it out, the Clintons do not say as many nice things about Ali Barky as they do John McCain; if they thought Barky was going to win, they wouldn’t be distancing themselves from him. But they are. They can hope for 2012 for Hillary all they want but if Barky were going to win, they wouldn’t be trying to cheeze him off. I’d say cagey Bill knows alot that most Americans don’t – that Ali Barky will never close the deal in Steubenville Ohio, Warren County Pennsylvania, or Grand Rapids, Michigan….

Sep 27, 2008 - 12:50 am 41. Derek:

Lunz had Romney winning everything. But when it came down to the crunch, McCain got the votes.

Romney said all the right things, but no one really trusted him. Lunz’ techniques seem to be spur of the moment feelings, which may or may not last till the morning.

Debates create a feeling that isn’t apparent for a few days. No matter what, the events in Washington this weekend are going to decide who wins or loses. If by tuesday your boss has his line of credit called, and maybe you can have a few days off, the debate will be forgotten.

I have no clue which way things will swing if that happens.

Derek

Sep 27, 2008 - 1:48 am 42. LankyFrame » Blog Archive » who won the debate:

[...] pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/09/26/who-won-the-debate [...]

Sep 27, 2008 - 3:00 am 43. ledger:

McCain won this one by being honest.

I agree that Obama is attempting to be an actor playing the role of a President – but comes on as a well choreographed Hollywood talking head. This makes him look dishonorable and gives a boost to McCain as Rib-rock American.

Wretchard has already noted that Obama was caught in a bold face lie about Henry Kissinger’s policies. I hate to say it but Obama comes on as a deceitful shyster.

I and a lot of other people will not vote for a disingenuous lying pol such as Obama. The so called “gun and bible clingers” are not that stupid.

Sep 27, 2008 - 3:48 am 44. Who won the debate | News Views Blog:

[...] Source: [...]

Sep 27, 2008 - 4:18 am 45. Doug:

Obama repeated his assertion about what kind of stand he took, and the courage and foresight required to oppose the War in Iraq.

…left out was the fact that he was not a member of either the US House or Senate at the time, and that in the environment where he resided at the time, (Chicago) taking a stand against the War was the easiest thing to do.

Courage would have been required to speak out FOR the War!

High point was when he responded to a challenge to his Foreign Affairs expertise by listing Joe Biden’s credentials in the field!

Agree w/el Jeffe that McCain should have loudly condemned the Democrat Criminals responsible for destroying Fannie and Freddie and carrying home the loot.
Ditto on having Dodd and Barney Frank, two of the most culpable politicians lead the way in addressing and solving the problems *they* created!

Sep 27, 2008 - 4:52 am 46. Ricardo:

I don’t know who won, but consider this:
If the presidential election had been in 2006 and Obama had won, he would have raised taxes and left Iraq.
Ask yourself, what kind of shape do you think we’d be in now?
If you think we’d be better, you are a very confused person, and I would just love to know how higher taxes for the very people we’re depending on for reinvestments and triumphant muslim radicals would be great for the present situation.

Sep 27, 2008 - 4:55 am 47. George nicholas:

It’s a plus, not a minus, to say “I agree” That’s the kind of honesty we need. To refuse to say it is old-politics, crankiness, defensiveness. When the McCain campaign replays the tape in ads, it showcases its negativity and combativeness, which aren’t what the country needs.

Sep 27, 2008 - 6:24 am 48. steveaz:

During the two minutes that I could stand to watch, Obama parroted Iranian talking points about Iraq – he seems to think the insurgency was home-spun, and not sponsored by America’s enemies in the region (I’ll bet he thinks Hamas is a community organization, too).

On this point, McCain decided to avoid a rebuttal: a big chance to demonstrate Obama’s coziness with America’s enemies was lost.

I’m disappointed, but one debate does not make an election…

Sep 27, 2008 - 6:25 am 49. johnh:

I believe that McCain gave out more punishment than he received. If I had to issue 100 points between then, divided by relative merit, I would say 60/40 in favor of McCain.

That said, I would give McCain a D- for insufficient aggression because missed major opportunities to indict Obama’s terrible judgment. Even when the moderator makes it easy. For example, Jim Lehrer asked, “Much has been said about the lessons of Vietnam. What do you see as the lessons of Iraq?” It is inexplicable that McCain failed to point out to bugging out is to lose and Obama’s opposition of the surge is an example of Obama’s failure to learn this “Lesson of Vietnam.” I just cannot get over McCain’s failure to make sure that everybody understands that Obama’s opposition to the surge would have been directly responsible for our nation reliving the Vietnam debacle.

Sep 27, 2008 - 6:29 am 50. Courtney:

Obama is all talk, he wants change America, yet he has no experience to do so.

Sep 27, 2008 - 6:32 am 51. Brian:

I agree. Obama is all talk. And who would want to change the strongest country in the world? And the war?Does Obama realize that 26.7 people living in Iraq are now living in freedom? Does he realize that we can’t negociate with terrorists? He’s an idiot.

Sep 27, 2008 - 6:35 am 52. Dylon:

Mccain/Palin 08!

Sep 27, 2008 - 6:36 am 53. jam:

Obama won. He proved he knows his stuff, which alot of people still think he’s not ready. He is ready. And he acted more presidential. McCain would not even speak to Obama or look him in the eye at all. Obama has more class! How can the poster above say Obama has no experience? Whatever!? He does, and he proved it lastnight. He’s the best one for the job and has a VP that is capable as well, unlike McCain’s choice for VP. What does that say about McCain’s judgment?

Sep 27, 2008 - 6:37 am 54. Foul Harold:

“Obama has more class”

Are you kidding me?

His rude interuptions, grade school style finger raising to the moderator, icy stares, glib head shaking, and repeated use of the familiar first name “John” instead of “Senator McCain” with a long-time, respected member of the U.S. Senate and war hero demonstrated him to be ANYTHING but classy.

He came off as a humorless, shifty used car salesman who could barely contain his frustration being openly critiqued.

Sep 27, 2008 - 6:50 am 55. George:

Quoting Jam in the post 2 above, “How can the poster above say Obama has no experience? Whatever!?”. Whatever?America can’t and won’t say “Whatever” to the lack of experience of our next president, especially in these crucial times, including the war, the situation with Russia, etc. Mccain is the safe canidate to pick, with the experience he brings to the white house, our country will be safe, and we won’t take risks with Obama.

Sep 27, 2008 - 6:57 am 56. johanna:

Obama won!!!! McCain should have hit this OUT OF THE PARK and it was STRIKE 2 his first STRIKE was picking running mate Ms.Palin. 3rd STRIKE next Thursday when she debates.

Sep 27, 2008 - 6:58 am 57. SunSword:

> McCain would not even speak to Obama or look him in the eye at all.

McCain cannot turn his head. He has to turn the whole top of his body, or his whole body. This is due to his old injuries.

Sep 27, 2008 - 6:59 am 58. First Time Voter:

This will be my first time voting and I’m also in the military and I have a few things to say:
1) I have been to lots of places around the world…does that make me any more qualified in foreign policy? In fact since he has been going to all these foreign places for so long it doesn’t seem to have done us any good over a quarter the world has a negative opinion of us
2) Just because he is a veteran and former Naval Officer doesn’e cut it either….I’m in the Navy and I have had some officers that couldn’t lead himself, let alone a squadron out of a paper bag.
3) Whats with this “you don’t understand” crap…how many times did McCain say that?
4) Also does McCain think we are dumb? He said he was “Suspending all political campaigning and not attending the debate” but with just under 24 hours to go he said its on. Was I the only one that noticed how well he was prepped for this, he was planning on attending all along.
5) Last but not least, the question on the bail out was pointless. How can you know what you are going to have to give up before you know what its going to cost. They both said that they have not seen the latest proposal and therefore can’t actually say what would have to be set aside. This question would be like asking you “If your salary next year is going to be lower what are you going to have to give up?” That would depend if it was $100, $1000 or $10000 would it not?

Sorry for the ranting. I’m voting for Obama but I was surprised how well McCain did.

Sep 27, 2008 - 7:01 am 59. Stephen:

Did a blue bus just pull up outside?

Tell them they can’t use the bathroom.

Sep 27, 2008 - 7:11 am 60. George:

You think Mccain not looking Obama in the eye is disrespectful?How about Obama referring to Mccain as “John”, someone who served our country and is known as a hero to America. That is low class, and shows his lack of experience because he doesn’t know what the hell he’s doing. Even Senator Hilary Clinton said “I think that I have a lifetime of experience that I will bring to the White House. Sen. John McCain has a lifetime of experience that he’d bring to the White House. And Sen. Obama has a speech he gave in 2002.” The White House is not the place to develope experience.

Sep 27, 2008 - 7:17 am 61. Courtney:

I am a first time voter as well, I just turned 18. I must say If Obama gets into the White House I will honestly be scared. His lack of experience, his iggnorance, the people he is friends with (the church he attended for years..that trashed the white race) is a scary thought. I feel as if Obama is not sinsere in his speeches. He is all talk. Our nation is going through crucial times and John Mccain is the canidate that is prepared to lead American through them.

Sep 27, 2008 - 7:21 am 62. Foul Harold:

“Did a blue bus just pull up outside?”

No doubt. I’ve been around several nominally right-leaning sites today and the Obamatrons seem to be out in full force spinning away.

It reminds me quite a bit of the tactics being used to spread disinformation in the days immediately following Russia’s invasion of Georgia.

Sep 27, 2008 - 7:23 am 63. Jason Mansmann:

It was a tough battle. I think that both canidates had some good points. I think that McCain might have won by a slight margin but not enough to really make a difference. I think however that Obama seemed a little weak when he agreed with John again and again. However, that also shows he is willing to cooperate with republicans to get the job done. I think Obama’s view on with Iran is flawed. I don’t think you could just sit down with them and expect a result. Although i thought Obama had a good argument when he said that the only reason he voted against troop funding was because there was no time table and that McCain did the same thing because there was.

Sep 27, 2008 - 7:29 am 64. Orphaned Son of Liberty:

Sadly, the fact that this expectedly partisan board cannot pronounce definitively for McCain is strong evidence that Obama probably “won” in a national, MSM-fed sense. As aptly pointed out by others not losing is a win for Obama, and the fact that he did not obviously stumble means there is no sound bite to really carry forward, which is what I would have hoped for. To my ear, Obama spouted a lot of pretty sounding, content free fluff lines… my favorite (roughly) “We will show judgement by sending a clear message to the world that we will invest in education” … Huh?

Sep 27, 2008 - 7:30 am 65. ricpic:

What came through to me, listening on the radio, is McCain’s deep unfeigned love for our country and our fighting men. This can’t be faked. The problem, as I see it, is that the old America, for whom patriotism is the supreme virtue, is getting smaller, while the new America of unassimilating immigrants and rootless cosmopolitans is getting larger. Translation: Obama wins.

Sep 27, 2008 - 7:41 am 66. TONI:

IT AMAZES ME THAT SOME OF YOU PEOPLE WANT TO STATE OBAMA HAS NO EXPERIENCE WHEN MCCAIN DOEST HAVE MUCH BESIDES GOING TO WAR. OPEN YOUR EYES AND LOOK AT THE WORLD. SO MANY SOLDIERS HAVE DIED FOR A WAR THAT SHOULD HAVE NEVER HAPPEN. 2ND LOOK AT OUR ECONOMY, SMALL BUSINESS OWNERS ARE LOSING BUSINESS, PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN ON JOBS FOR YEARS DON’T HAVE THE JOBS ANYMORE. GIVE ME A BREAK… WE DO NEED CHANGE AND THE TACTICS THAT ARE WORKING NOW ARE TEARING AMERICA APART. UNFORTUNATELY MCCAIN DON’T KNOW CRAP ABOUT FOREIGN POLICY BECAUSE ALL HE BELIEVES IN IS THE WAR. TO BE HONEST A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE STILL STUCK ON THE COLOR. IGNORANCE IS WHAT YOU CALL IT. Courtney:

I am a first time voter as well, I just turned 18. I must say If Obama gets into the White House I will honestly be scared. His lack of experience, his iggnorance, the people he is friends with (the church he attended for years..that trashed the white race) is a scary thought. I feel as if Obama is not sinsere in his speeches. He is all talk. Our nation is going through crucial times and John Mccain is the canidate that is prepared to lead American” . YOU’RE AN A** HOW CAN YOU JUDGE HIM ABOUT HIS CHURCH AND THE PEOPLE HIS IS AROUND. YOU ARE RACIST,JUDGMENTAL AND HOW IN THE WORLD CAN YOU SAY IGNORANT YOU CANT EVEN SPELL AND BESIDES THAT THE MAN EDUCATION SPEAKS FOR ITSELF. IT UPSET ME GREATLY WHEN PEOPLE LIE YOU JUDGE BLACK PEOPLE. BLACK AMERICANS HAVE PAID THE PRICE LONG AGO AND BESIDES THAT WE ARE VERY EDUCATED LOOK BEYOND THE SKIN. ANYWAY DON’T TALK ABOUT EXPERIENCE WHEN GOES AND PICK A WOMAN THAT DON’T JACK ABOUT RUNNING ANYTHING. 5000-9000 PEOPLE AIN’T SH** COMPARED TO AMERICA SHE WILL NEVER EVER BE COMPARED TO HILLARY. BESIDES THAT MCCAIN IS A HYPOCRITE, DON’T TALK ABOUT EXPERIENCE WHEN HE CHOSE A WOMAN WITHOUT ANY. HE IS MANIPULATOR, THAT WANTED VOTES WE ALL KNOW HIS CHOICE WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN PALIN, AND ALL OF A SUDDEN HE WANTS A WOMAN YEA RIGHT. POLITICIANS MAKE PROMISES AND IT’S UP TO US TO FIND OUT WHO WILL LOOK OUT FAR OUR FUTURE. AND TO BE HONEST I DON’T WANT TO LIVE ANOTHER EIGHT YEARS I RATHER BROADEN MY HORIZONS AND HAVE FAITH THAN BE DOOMED FOR NOT TRYING. WE ARE STUCK IN THE PAST THAT’S WHY THIS COUNTRY IS THE WAY IT IS. ALSO MCCAIN TALKS ABOUT HEALTH CARE BUT HOW IN THE HELL CAN FAMILY GET A TAX CUT IF THEY DONT HAVE JOBS TO WORK.

OBAMA PROUD……

Sep 27, 2008 - 8:03 am 67. Foul Harold:

^
See what I mean?

At least our Russian visitors back in August were semi-intelligible.

Sep 27, 2008 - 8:11 am 68. TONI:

sgi:

Obama is not a good actor and perhaps this is what is disconcerting about him. He is playing a role, playing at running for President, dressed for the part, knows his lines, understands the technique, but can’t quite deliver…because it’s an act. He’s thin. It’s all talk. Does anyone know what his convictions are? I think he does, but he will not say because he knows they would be unacceptable in a President of the United States of America.

I don’t know about twitching, but lecturing, interrupting and glaring, yes.” YOU ARE SO STUPID NO ONE HAS TO PLAY THE PART THE MAN KNOWS HIS SH**. HOW IN THE HELL DO YOU THINK HE BECAME SENATOR? ALSO YOU IDIOT IT’S NOT ABOUT THE WAY YOU LOOK ITS ABOUT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE .

ALSO George:

You think Mccain not looking Obama in the eye is disrespectful?How about Obama referring to Mccain as “John”, someone who served our country and is known as a hero to America. That is low class, and shows his lack of experience because he doesn’t know what the hell he’s doing. Even Senator Hilary Clinton said “I think that I have a lifetime of experience that I will bring to the White House. Sen. John McCain has a lifetime of experience that he’d bring to the White House. And Sen. Obama has a speech he gave in 2002.” The White House is not the place to develope experience.
Sep 27, 2008 – 7:17 am”
YOU GUYS CRACK ME UP. IT A DEBATE YOU MORAN, HE IS STATING HIS VIEWS HE DOESN’T HAVE TO SAY SIR. ALSO LIFE TIME HERO GIVE ME A BREAK, HIS IS NOT THE ONLY WON WHO WENT TO WAR TO SERVE HS COUNTRY.

Sep 27, 2008 - 8:11 am 69. exhelodrvr:

Toni,
Just a suggestion – “moron” is not a good word to spell incorrectly.

Sep 27, 2008 - 8:13 am 70. Paul:

The more I think about the debate last night the more depressed I get.

Obama is a dangerous cipher. Any rational examination of his actions and policy statements over the last several years should lead to the conclusion that he wants to weaken America.

But because most independents and moderates are too into themselves to thoroughly investigate what Obama’s real stands are, coupled with the fact that the Media will always cover for Obama, the Republicans need to make real clear in bright neon lights just how dangerous this guy really is.

Mc Cain refused to do that last night. Like he has too many times before, Mc Cain refused to be overtly partisan.

There were many missed opportunities for policy distinctions between Mc Cain and the Messiah last night. Mc Cain whiffed almost all of them. One of a President’s most crucial roles is to lay out for the public why certain actions are critical to the safety to the health, safety and welfare of the Republic. A President can’t go all meely mouth bipartisan, when straight talk is required. And straight talk is not what we have been getting on too many issues from the Straight Talk Express for a long time.

All of Obama’s long held positions instinctively bolster America’s enemies. Nearly all of his friends aren’t Marxists or Islamists for nothing. If we are to believe him last night though, all of a sudden, he is for missile defense, drilling off shore, nuclear power, aggressive confrontation with our enemies and tax cuts. At this rate, next week Obama will be pro-life and against the assault weapons ban.

Please.

Mc Cain must clearly explain how dangerous Obama’s positions are, or Mc Cain will lose this election. Unless Mc Cain gets serious,the Media will paint Obama as the young responsible choice to replace the mean, nasty corrupt Republicans who have ruined the economy and our standing around the world .

And if we lose this election, with the carte blanche given to the next Treasury Secretary in the bailout bill, Hugo Chavez style marxism is just around the corner.

Sep 27, 2008 - 8:15 am 71. Alexis:

George:

I remember one time when Senator Obama referred to “Tom” and then corrected himself to say “John”. At no time did Senator McCain refer to his opponent as “Barack”.

Why didn’t Senator Obama wear shorts to the debate at the University of Mississippi? If it were truly a casual event where the participants relate to one another on a first name basis, each candidate should have been wearing casual attire instead of wearing a suit.

If a white candidate refers to his black opponent by his first name while the black candidate refers to his white opponent by his formal name, the white candidate would be assumed to be an old fashioned Jim Crow racist. My, how times change.

Sep 27, 2008 - 8:24 am 72. Erin:

I don’t think last night’s debate was about winning for either candidate. McCain went into the debate needing to dispel rumors that he was senile and intimidated by Obama. Obama needed to prove that his “youth and naivity” was a fabrication of his opponent, that he was presidential, and that he was not a Muslim terrorist trying to destroy the country.

Before this debate I had good feelings about both candidates and was not looking for either to win or lose. John McCain had always struck me as a kind hearted politician who tries to do what is right and is sometimes unfairly grouped with the extreme right.

But after last night any support I may have imagined for McCain has vanished. McCain responded snidely when his integrity was challenged, made statements of “fact” that he wouldn’t defend, and refused to once look at his opponent. McCain was condescending towards Obama and he alienated his audience. As someone who was not looking for him to fail I felt as though he was harsh and evasive. He twisted Obama’s words. I had to rewind the debate to remember exactly what Obama had said and McCain’s interpretations were unfounded and irrational every time.

Obama, on the other hand, is clearly not a Muslim terrorist. He was eloquent, respectful, and one of the most honest people I have ever heard. If Obama is not elected president the country is missing an enormous opportunity to change this country, to give it dignity and quality internally and externally.

To ORPHANED SON OF LIBERTY

“We will show judgement by sending a clear message to the world that we will invest in education”

This means that Obama will prove to the world that American’s are not stupid by investing in our quality of education which is far surpassed in countries such as China and England (who’s colleges find American high school diploma’s comical).

There are places where children are taught by incompetent teachers and participate in an educational system that is one-sided and pathetic. Maybe you don’t live in a city where this is relevant but you do live in America, and this is happening your country. Maybe you should pay a bit more attention to it.

Sep 27, 2008 - 8:28 am 73. Alexis:

Just a note on etiquette:

Posting in all caps is usually interpreted on the internet as shouting. If one seeks to have one’s opinions taken seriously, it is wise to be civil.

Sep 27, 2008 - 8:31 am 74. Sickofit:

This country is going to keep failing not just because we have had eight years of a worthless president and his staff but from all of the worthless americans that are not educated enough to make valuable choices. The same people who listened to bush and voted for him will still vote for mccain. I am disgusted by the way this country is going and it will never change sadly until all the christians, support our troops and other foreign war fanatics, and tax cut for the rich people are DEAD. McCain couldn’t talk to a wall and win.. Point Obama. Both need to step it up. Obama/Biden is much more suited to take care of the working class in this country.

Sep 27, 2008 - 8:33 am 75. Ricardo:

Again, you Obamatrons, do this mental exercise (if you can): Imagine Obama had won in 2006.
What do you think would be happening in Iraq now after we cut and run?
In Afghanistan, how effective would we be when the entire populace would be convinced we’d leave at the first sign of trouble?
How careful would Russia be about it’s neighbors knowing we just turned tail?
How solid would the economy be now under the strain of taxes?
I am one of those “millionaires” who owns a small business and employs 6 people. This year has been rough. To any of you who are employed in a small business, here’s a clue- when times are rough, the owner is the LAST one to get paid. If I can’t pay myself, I’ve got to fire somebody just to keep going. If business taxes and personal taxes on “millionaires” go up, you are going to see a lot businesses downsize or go under and massive unemployement.
Oh, but wait, my fired employees will have lower taxes! LOL! And, oh yes, they’ll kick start the economy from the bottom up!
Obama’s lack of business sense is frightening and he is about to visit on us a whopper of a recession and then blame it on the republicans.

Sep 27, 2008 - 8:35 am 76. Hobie:

exhelodrvr:
How will this “moran” know what your talking about? It could be code?

Sep 27, 2008 - 8:39 am 77. buckets:

The Obamabots are out today. Please, spare us your unthinking adoration.

McCain won, but Obama certainly sounded presidential. The only problem with Obama (apart from the lack of respect shown McCain) was the substance of what he was saying. But I was honestly amazed at the way he could spout fluff, and yet sound so righteous, principled, and full of conviction.

One of the most glaring discrepancies in the Obama facade I was his stumbling explanation of the soldier’s bracelet he was wearing. Something along the lines of “I promised that mother that no more young men would have to die.” A great sentiment, but totally at odds with his expressed desire to re-invade Afghanistan and start dropping JDAMs on a nominal U.S. ally in possession of nuclear weapons.

I wish McCain had called him on this. I also wish McCain had brought to the nation’s attention just how much $$$ Obama has gotten from Freddie and Fannie in the last few years. But… McCain did pretty well. It’s nice to listen to a Republican candidate who you doesn’t make you cringe while they’re speaking.

Sep 27, 2008 - 8:54 am 78. trangbang68:

Red Alert: Come in all Obamabots! The talking point is “McCain didn’t look at Barack… I repeat McCain didn’t look at Barack” Get on all conservative websites and repeat this. Over and out.

When I read some of the brilliant comments by those such as Toni, Erin, and Sickofit, I see a high school Civics class somewhere with a young enlightened teacher assigning her students to click on pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez and do your duty as citizens of the world and convince these old warmongers that they need their consciousness elevated.
On Monday morning the class will ring out with accolades. “Toni about that caps lock key…but never mind you get an A+++.” Erin ,you are proving the need for investing in education you mention. We are turning out some mind numbed dolts from our schools.

Sep 27, 2008 - 8:54 am 79. Geoffgo:

“John”? Repeatedly>

Well, how pervfect and opening! John should start referring to his opponent as Barak Hussein.

Sep 27, 2008 - 8:55 am 80. Mongoose:

My, my. BC has been invaded this AM, and by teenagers, no less. Who forgot to lock the door?

Sep 27, 2008 - 8:56 am 81. Don:

How can you go wrong with the experience that McCain brings to the table. He spent millions more time in foreign policy alone than Obama. The presidency is not about a hope and a dream nor a hope and a dream to understand what is happening in the world. Who do we want to lead our armed forces? Experience is difficult to beat. McCain won’t ask anyone to do what he hasn’t done or his father or his own son. Its a big world. I like the guy whos been there done than. learned from hands on experience. and lots of it.

Sep 27, 2008 - 9:00 am 82. buckets:

After reading over Erin’s comments again, I’m convinced she is a false flag Obama supporter. Some neocon posing as a liberal, but doing so in such a naive and ignorant way that us BCers are forced to take notice of “Erin’s” clear lack of understanding of pretty much everything.

To “Erin” the secret neocon: Brilliant! I salute you, sir!

Sep 27, 2008 - 9:08 am 83. Emer:

I gather you love Fox “news”? So, should be no expectation that anyone involved with this site is at all anything but rabidly conservative. Fair enough–I guess.
By the way, Obama won.

Sep 27, 2008 - 9:11 am 84. slimslowslider:

Unlike BO, JM speaks to the hearts of the truely patriotic who understand what the flag
represents. this, unfortunately, is not the majority of America anymore. i really hope i am wrong but i see BO successfully “picking up” much of our nation.

Sep 27, 2008 - 9:15 am 85. Rise:

OBAMA was the winner in my opinion. What scares me is the Archie Bunker mentality of so many people, who lean to McCain for all the wrong reasons. Mc Cain is like the old neighborhood loudmouth , flexing his muscles like a player in West SIde Story, while Obama is more educated, much smarter, a better speaker, a better statesman, a true gentleman, who stated his plans to REDUCE taxes for 95% of the people. McCAin always lies about this fact. McCain would be ineffective talking to World leaders with his cowboy approach, while Obama clearly demonstrated his way of bringing people together on points that he and Mc Cain DO agree. Where is it written that candiadtes must automatically disagree with everything the opponent says, like a mindless bully? Republican pundits sound like Bree Van Derkamp pn Desperate HOusewives. She smoothly covers things up with automaton lies about reality, like a Stepford Wife.It sickens me that so many people are too dumb to realize who has pulled the wool over their eyes for 8 years. OBAMA will be our next president. McCAin showed desperate judgement when he chose a pretty face with an empty head for VP. I hope she remains as his candidate, so he will lose the election. No one in their right mind can think Palin is ready to be VP or heaven help us, President. Oh I forgot, she sees Russia.

Sep 27, 2008 - 9:19 am 86. Alexis:

Confidence artists routinely look at people in the eyes to tell them lies, for they take advantage of the peculiar assumption that looking someone in the eye must be a sign of truthfulness.

In many subcultures, it is rude to look at a person straight in the eyes. It is particularly disrespectful to look at someone as if lasers were coming out of one’s eyes. Among many Indians and blacks, to “look a man in the eye” is a stereotypically white custom.

So, if Obama supporters claim that “looking a man in the eye” is some kind of sign of respect and truthfulness, it is they who are projecting an ethnocentric judgment onto the situation.

Sep 27, 2008 - 9:22 am 87. Konyok:

On the margin, I think that Senator Obama comes away from the debate stronger: he didn’t screw the pooch. (I groaned when McCain mentioned the Iranian “Republican guard,” worried the he would be pilloried for this gaffe. I cheered when Obama repeated the error in his response.)

Most interesting to me was that Obama repeated his call for intervention in Pakistan. It seems to me that he is articulating a new variant on the Bush doctrine. The Obama doctrine appears to argue that the United States will not recognize the sovereignty claims of states that are unable to control areas within their boundaries that are sanctuary for our enemies.
McCain did not justify the invasion of Iraq, but did maintain that once engaged we must press to victory. His oblique answer to the question is to relate that he opposed Reagan and Clinton over hinky deployments.
Given these exchanges, I think that although Obama rode antiwar sentiment to his party’s nomination, he is probably more likely than McCain to be adventurist. Think Darfur, Georgia and whatever new hotspot may be brewing out there.
McCain expresses confidence in the Petraeus COIN strategy in Afghanistan. Obama seems to be so invested in the “we took our eyes off the ball” argument that he is much more likely to order American troops into a Dien Bien Phu in Afghanistan.
McCain stung Obama badly in his final shot that he is just as stubborn as Bush in holding to his withdrawal timelines. The segue to his love for American troops and veterans was awesome. Obama kept his cool, but his Kenya reference was surreal.

Sep 27, 2008 - 9:26 am 88. trangbang68:

Gee Rise McCain should have chosen a brilliant man like Biden who said that when the Stock Market crashed in 1929 President FDR went on television to reassure the nation. Do you agree with that version of history?
Really this thread should close because Emer
stated” By the way Obama won” Well I guess that nails it for me.

Sep 27, 2008 - 9:28 am 89. trangbang68:

exhelodriver,
Toni was confused, she thought she was on Right wing nuthouse and talking to Rick Moran.

Sep 27, 2008 - 9:33 am 90. Uncle Jefe:

Feel the white guilt.
Sorry, I’ll have none of it.
Poor, poor obamatrons.
Unable to judge the man by his character (or lack thereof), but rather by the color of his skin.
Obama is a self-serving wannabe, and a lousy liar.
He and the long-march marxists have many buffaloed, and the slick con man may ‘articulate’ his way into our White House yet.
The hate revealed here in his acolytes’ comments is a mirror of the man himself.

Sep 27, 2008 - 9:42 am 91. Ex-fetus:

“It’s a plus, not a minus, to say “I agree” That’s the kind of honesty we need.”

Actually, it’s not Georgie.
What you are describing is the One State, one Party, one Leader type of government that Prevailed in Socialist Germany from ‘33 to ‘45.
Most of us know how that ended. If you did, you would not be so hot for agreement in government.
This says it better then I ever could, and without words!

http://ibdeditorials.com/CartoonPopUp.aspx?id=307141501304042

Michael Ramirez is a genius! The purpose of Gevernment is to air differences and solve them without the use of bullets and/or explosives. This is a FACT that the Left seems to have lost track of.

Dictators dictate. Governments govern thru consensus building, which requires disagreement and discourse.
The current problem in society ISN’T the disagreement, it’s the lack of discourse. That is caused by the left practicing censorship on those that disagree with their positions. A liberal can go to a right wing site and get into debates when ever they want to. A right winger that tries that gets banned or deleted. So there is never a chance to use the discourse to solve anything. Benji is an example. When one of his far left ideas is shown to be moonbat droppings, he changes the subject and drops the debate.

“We can never be sure that the opinion we are endeavoring to stifle is a false opinion; and if we were sure, stifling it would be an evil still.”
~John Stuart Mill, On Liberty, 1859

“Books won’t stay banned. They won’t burn. Ideas won’t go to jail. In the long run of history, the censor and the inquisitor have always lost. The only weapon against bad ideas is better ideas.”
~Alfred Whitney Griswold, New York Times, 24 February 1959

Sep 27, 2008 - 9:44 am 92. peterike:

Wow, it’s Troll-day at Belmont! I wonder what these twerps get paid, or do they do it for the greater glory of the Sainted O? (Thank you sir, may I please have another.)

It would be interesting to pull hundreds of these posts from multiple sites and do a textual analysis of them to see the repeated tropes. Cleary, “first time voter” is a big one today.

I might also add, dear Trolls, if you’re going to pretend to be something you’re not, THIS particular scam is a dead giveaway.

This will be my first time voting and I’m also in the military and I have a few things to say:

In the military? Shurrreee you are, pal, sure you are. I guess they realized we’d parsed “I’m a Christian Conservative” a long time ago so they need a new “gee check out my crediblity” line.

Anyway, I couldn’t watch the whole thing. I never can. I get way too frustrated looking at the screen and saying “No, no, that’s not the way to respond!” to the Republican. I’m just a casual observer with a day job that’s not political, but I could have sent O home crying with wet pants after his opening. Were I McCain I would have responded by saying, “God lord, it would take me half an hour to respond to all the lies you just told in two minutes.” Then I would have gone on to eviserate O’s total complicity in Fannie/Fredie. I didn’t watch it all, but did McCain EVER mention how much cash O has gotten from the Fannie/Fredie coin machine?

I suppose to the typical ignorant “independent” O looked pretty good. He gave a lot of “confident” answers. But if you’ve paid any attention to the world these past years, you would know that most of O’s responses were lies, spin or just plain wrong-headed idiocies. Any honest, informed observer had to come away realizing that Obama is neck deep in BS and a moral and intellectual imbecile locked into a world view proven catastrophically wrong over and over again (with a 100 million plus dead behind it).

Except most people don’t have a clue. They just hear “the past eight years of failed Bush policies” and something planted deep in their brain by the Ministry of Information buzzes and goes “yes, we need change.”

Ricpic’s comment that “rootless cosmopolitans” will vote for O is a dead-on bullseye. It’s the description I’ve been groping for. That is precisely how to describe the affluent/white Obama base. I bet if you did a poll on people who have moved out of their small town/suburb/small city to a major urban center you would find a 90% Obama vote. Or single people living with a bunch of roomates. You could probably inversely correlate Obama voters with the question “how often do you call your parents/siblings?”

“I never call my parents.” Bing! Obama voter.

The MSNBC headline spin is “no clear winner, no knockout blows.” Hmm. That gives me hope. In MSM-land, a close fight is always presented as a huge win for the Democrat. A tie must mean McCain won.

I’m very very afraid of the Palin debate now. I think the media has rattled her. I have no doubt she’s ten times the person Biden is, and inherently far more intelligent. But she’s not slick and not schooled in the ways of Washington-speak or how to effectively parse the perfidious questions she will get from the media. Let’s just hope Joe puts his fat foot in his stupid mouth.

Sep 27, 2008 - 9:45 am 93. cedarford:

Obama won because it was a draw.
That seemed to be audience reaction. By staying even, they believed Obama came out of the debate in a stronger position than McCain since the “foreign policy edge” of McCain was subsumed into who appears credible on overseas stuff — AND the economic crisis.
Obama’s edge on the economy (which dominates voter’s minds) and McCain’s inability to attack Obama’s reasonably thought out and expressed generalities on the economy neutralized Mccain’s better showing on foreign policy matters later.

I was hoping for better from McCain, but he was no McCain from 2000, but a tired guy who all too much recycled his standard gruel and anecdotes from his stump speech.

=======================
Oh, and the Messiah’s bracelet stunt looked absurd – he actually had to check & see what the name was.

Actually, that was a moment when I cheered Obama – because his team anticipated McCain would dredge up a prop and say that in the name of a Mother of a dead soldier, Iraq was a wonderful idea that should be made “stay the course”. And Obama then was able to match McCain’s emotionally manipulative prop bracelet with his own prop of a bracelet “given by the suffering mother of a dead hero” who thought the Iraq War wasn’t such a wonderful adventure…

I’m sick of the props and appearances by “victim families”, wounded heros..to justify politicians policies through emotional blackmail.

Reagan’s handlers started the new phase of “waving bloody shirts” – specific suffering individuals and dead people’s belongings or annointed heroes. It has spread everywhere and is so blatant in attempting to emotionally blackmail opponents and voters – “Support my policy, or you show that you don’t care about Madge Horner, suffering cancer victim of Buffalo – who I flew down to be in this audience. That if you side with my opponent you are the same sort of uncaring, non-hero worshipping bastard he is”.

So I cheer Obama as part of a new trend to “counter-program” against manipulative props.

“I have the bracelet of a suffering mother’s gift that we need the war!” “Funny, I too have the gift of a suffering mother who says the war is a mistake”…..

Props are untimately exactly the opposite of how they are marketed as…they actually show disrespect and contempt of the voter and the specific “victim-hero” mentioned. They degrade the political process.

Bush waving the badge of a 9/11 dead cop saying that if the Patriot Act is not passed you dishonor his death. Democrats find and wave their own 9/11 dead fireman’s cap saying that the dead fireman believed in libertarian principles, so voters are obligated to vote against “shredding the Constitution” or the Mother of the dead hero foreman will think Americans dishonored his memory.

Enough with the props.

And also the “Tell it to Guillermo Ruiz, an illegal who died in Fallujah as a Marine who wants Open Borders!!” type of tropes.

Which also seek to morally blackmail voters into falling in line with various policies.

==================

Sep 27, 2008 - 9:45 am 94. undecided:

I would have voted for Obama until last night , he really is not aware of what is going on in this country. That scares me to death. He just wants to be seen as the first black man as president and that has gotten in the way of what is really going on in this world besides the first black man

Sep 27, 2008 - 9:49 am 95. peterike:

A final note. All good Brown shirts are on notice that the accepted way to pronounce Pakistan is now “Pock-ee-stahn.” Please do not disappoint the fearless leader.

This reminds of the 80s when suddenly everyone in the media started calling Nicaragua “Nee-ca-raahhhhhh-qua.” I wonder if media talking heads will start saying “Pock-ee-stahn” now. First person to notice an example wins a prize.

Sep 27, 2008 - 9:51 am 96. Konyok:

Another interesting question that the coincidence of the debate with the financial bailout negotiations brings out for me is: if Senator Obama is so comfortable meeting with Ahmadinejad, why won’t he meet with House Republicans?

Obama certainly didn’t feel modest about lobbying PM Al Maliki and other Iraqi leaders to consider his positions in their negotiations with the US on status of forces agreements. Neither did he feel shy about a campaign swing through Europe, meeting on a quasi offical basis with leaders there.

Obama could have trumped McCain’s dramatic return to Washington by meeting House Republicans and giving their views a respectful hearing. It would have been effective political theater.

It seems that Senator Obama is unwilling to meet with his domestic political opponents without an agreement in the can, but signals a willingness to meet with our foreign opponents “without preconditions.”

Sep 27, 2008 - 9:51 am 97. Ex-fetus:

Toni,
Just a suggestion – “moron” is not a good word to spell incorrectly.

“Maroooon is OK, among us old folks. That is what Buggs Bunny called Elmer Fudd in all the Bugs Bunny cartoons, so it tickles the funny bone among those old enough to have watched Buggs. I suspect it doesn’t do a thing for the “Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle crowd”. That’s ok, Biker Mice from Mars was better then TMNT anyway. The TMNT crowd was never quite fast enough mentally to keep up with the Biker Mice.

Sep 27, 2008 - 9:52 am 98. Alexis:

Snark Alert:

I’m chastened, I’m chastened. You have shown the power of your reasoning and I have seen the light.

Oh, I have been so mistaken through the years to think that America should defend itself against terrorists, for America’s worst enemy is truly George W. Bush. Oh, I have been so mistaken through the years to think that Saddam Hussein ever celebrated the September 11 attacks or ever supported terrorism. Oh, I have been so mistaken through the years to think that Barack Obama cheated his way into power.

I should have understood the importance of Change, for Change, Hope, and Progress have become the central sacraments of the American communion without which it is not possible to think straight. I should have understood how cowboys ought to respect their social betters in political affairs and defer to their superior judgment. I should have understood how Barack Obama has become America’s guiding light.

And now, I understand that all who reject The Teachings of the Sun God are heathens who must be redeemed through being put to death.

Oh yes, I understand how civility must be sacrificed at the altar of righteousness and how America must purify itself from the ignorant bigots who dare to question Senator Obama’s greatness.

Oh yes, I’m chastened, chastened now to understand how we must replace the old order with the House of the Rising Sun and how The Blessed Obama must be the amazing grace that will save America.

Now let’s sing the Hallelujah chorus of “Yes We Can”.

Sep 27, 2008 - 10:07 am 99. Dave:

Let’s see here: I guess we all now have to bow to Ayers five times a day and yell
Obamahu Akbar! If we don’t, our blue bus passengers will jump up and down and hold their breath until their faces turn blue.

Amusing.

Sep 27, 2008 - 10:17 am 100. Mike Sylwester:

Obama’s answers were better organized and focused. McCain’s answers sometimes went off too far on tangents.

Because both talked too much, many questions were not asked (all the questions were good), and McCain probably would have done better if there had been more questions and briefer answers.

I don’t think McCain made his desired impact when he hammered repeatedly at a few points:

* Obama just doesn’t understand

* Obama doesn’t know the difference between strategy and tactics

* Obama would meet without preconditions.

McCain’s repetition of these points seemed to become lamer and lamer.

McCain should have defended the Iraq War as a whole, not just the Surge. McCain seemed to accept without objection Obama’s argument that Obama was right to oppose our invasion of Iraq.

McCain’s talk about his wrist bracelet of the soldier who died in Iraq was doomed to failure as a debate tactic. Obama clobbered McCain with Obama’s own wrist bracelet.

Since this first debate was about foreign policy, McCain should have defeated Obama clearly, but he didn’t. I agree a lot more with McCain than Obama, but Obama came across as intelligent, well-informed and moderate.

Sep 27, 2008 - 10:36 am 101. Karen:

I don’t believe a word McCain says. Obama seems more educated and lets the American people know what Congress is really up to. I wasn’t originally on Obama’s “Team”, but now I am. McCain scares me. One more goof making mistakes and it’s not going to go good. I was doing good financially, now I am not and I need someone who will make it better for me and my family. Let’s go Obama!!! Lets give him 4 years to make a difference.

Sep 27, 2008 - 10:36 am 102. THENUMBERTOO:

Obama won all the way. I have no idea where people are geting mcCain even came close to him. Henry kissinger DID claim that he would meet at the presidential level, and THEN FLIPPED his statement.

Barack this time was poised and responded with wholeheartedness, sincerety and to the best of his knowledge. McCain gave the same thing that he always has. There is nothing that i have seen from him yet that is promising and this debate was just another reason why he has no idea about this new world we live in.

War isn’t the same war that it was, he knows that and he has nothing to say about it. Other nations want us to talk to them, hash out deals and keep peace at the forefront.

Barack shot down everything that McCain had said and even gave great reaction to some of the lies that he has said, which he has been giving more and more of lately.

Being aggressive at this kind of debate, was a HUGE mistake and was the nail in the coffin for McCain.

The most annoying thing about McCain is repeating more than 9 times about spending. He has talked about spending, but never has the resolution about it. just saying that people are in prison isn’t enough, on top of that being something that wasn’t supposed to go public.

It shows that McCain has nothing to offer the nation as a leader.

Neither one of them even hinted at the economic crisis that’s going on.

This debate still is very important, because i think it reconfigures the voting lanscape.

Sep 27, 2008 - 10:39 am 103. NahnCee:

Wow. Each of the “morans” posted once and then slip-slided away. It’s almost like they were programmed with a list of admired and influenial blogs to infest, and then sent forth to spew and be obnoxious.

Like Iran sending waves of unknowing little children into the mine fields to blow themselves up for the cause because the adults couldn’t figure out a better way to do it and were too busy skimming money to care any way.

B. Hussein must be *so* proud of the intellectual depth and mature experience demonstrated by his dedicated followers.

BTW, I don’t believe that the first “1st time voter” is in the military. Nope. Don’t believe a syllable of it.

Sep 27, 2008 - 10:40 am 104. Konyok:

Mike Sylwester,

What do you think of Senator Obama’s call for incursions into Pakistan?

Sep 27, 2008 - 10:42 am 105. citizen:

Who won the debate is such a lame question. I think the only way one of the candidates could have been declared a winner if the other had made a serious mistake. That cannot happen because all major US presidential candidates are very well trained for TV appearances.

So the voters have to go beyond the personality and rhetoric. Do you really believe that tax cuts are the solution to our malaise? 24 of the last 32 years a republican has been in the whitehouse. If the taxes could be cut any further, they would have been cut already. McCain is just repeating the rhetoric that is handlers are telling him to repeat.

We need a person who can energize our inner city neighborhoods, we need a person who can minimize the resources that we are wasting on the war, we need a president who can reduce the probability that a new enemy of America is created. We need a president who can energize all of us to join the army if there is a true threat to our security.

Now figure out who do we need. It does not matter who won or lost a 15 second sound bite.

Citizen

Sep 27, 2008 - 11:04 am 106. NahnCee:

Ex-Fetus – I once had a progressive liberal teeny-bopper call me a racist because I used the word “maroon” as a Bugsy pejorative. Evidently it’s too close to “octoroon” for comfort and therefore falls into the same category as “niggardly”, which we are supposed to self-censor just in case someone uneducated, hard of hearing, and with a victim mentality is nearby.

Personally, I think said teeny-bopper was just severely lacking in Warner Brothers education.

Sep 27, 2008 - 11:06 am 107. WSL:

Paul says, “The more I think about the debate last night the more depressed I get.”

A letter to Thursday’s LA Times remarked, “Barack Obama should be at least 30 points ahead in any poll. That he isn’t does not speak well for the future of this country.”

That depressed me to the point I almost didn’t watch the debate. I think our country is being set up to be condemned as a nation of racist bigots should Obama not win in November.

Sep 27, 2008 - 11:07 am 108. trangbang68:

Karen no doubt you weren’t on Obama’s team until last night.” Obama lets the American people know what Congress is up to” Uh, which party controls Congress?
“I was doing good financially and now I’m not. I need someone to make it better for me and my family” (Karen, grammatically that was I was doing well) What is the big O going to do to “make it better for you and your family”; put a Barney bandaid on your owie?

Sep 27, 2008 - 11:17 am 109. Aristide:

Konyok, that is “Pock-ee-stahn.”

Sep 27, 2008 - 11:17 am 110. Konyok:

@Citizen,

I agree with you about sound bites.

What do you think of Senator Obama’s call for incursions into Pakistan? What effect should his statement be expected to have on Pakistan’s government and people? Could that be construed as creating a new enemy?

Sep 27, 2008 - 11:19 am 111. NahnCee:

Maybe what we need is a Spartacus moment, where one by one, people start standing up and saying, “I am a racist bigot” …. “No, *I* am a racist bigot” … “No, *I* am the biggest ractist bigot!”

I’ve thought for a couple of years now that the self-imposed ban on the “N” word is probably doing more harm than good. It just empowers people like Jessie Jackson and Al Sharpton and doesn’t really seem to make African-American people feel good about themselves.

Recent polls indicate a huge split in the amount of perceived racism in America between whites and blacks. Oddly enough, it’s only the blacks who seem to see prejudice against their color while you never hear about it from Asians, Arabs, or Indians. Although Latino’s seem to be picking up the habit of complaining about racism, too, but I think that may just be grasping at straws to try to avoid being deported.

To me the *real* sign of continuing racism in America would be if a huge majority of black people vote for Obama just because he’s black and despite increasing evidence of his shifty incompetence. If the numbers after the election in November show that that’s what happened, it will be every bit as detrimental to the position of black people in America as that LA jury of blacks who took it upon themselves to spit in the eye of justice and release a murderous OJ Simpson. We just don’t need people that hateful and ignorant to be Americans.

Sep 27, 2008 - 11:22 am 112. peterike:

Do you really believe that tax cuts are the solution to our malaise? 24 of the last 32 years a republican has been in the whitehouse. If the taxes could be cut any further, they would have been cut already.

First, the majority of those Republican years have been years of exceptionally good economies, starting when tax reforms began to kick in during the Reagan years. But I would agree that consumer-based tax cuts are less important. Obama’s blarney about “tax cuts for 95% of the people” is nonsense, since half of them don’t pay taxes anyway. What he’s talking about is just handing people money they have no right to (e.g. buying them off).

A very important point McCain made was tax cuts for corporations, because that’s where money comes from. Unlike most Democrats whose understanding of economics is something on the order of “money comes out a box that rich people have the key too,” McCain understands that business drives wealth. Business creates wealth, and we are leaving a lot of wealth untapped because businesses are choosing to go elsewhere. Sarb/Ox is part of the problem as well. IPOs in America have declined to almost nil in the past few quarters because people are opening businesses elsewhere now. This is a gigantic issue that nobody is even mentioning.

And speaking of taxes, they would be a moot point if the idiot-ocrats and the Greenies would let America tap it’s energy resources, as this article explains quite well.

http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/uncle-sams-multi-trillion-dollar-oil-lockup/

We could actually pay off the national debt this way. Astonishing. Not to mention create huge numbers of jobs directly in energy, and countless more that would accrue due to the multiplier effect of all that money.

McCain should do one of those Ross Perot moves of buying an hours airtime and slowly and methodically explaining economic issues to the economic illiterates in the electorate. Use lots of colored charts. People like colored charts.

Sep 27, 2008 - 11:23 am 113. Tony:

The Dems pretend they want to fight the “real war” in Afghanistan, against “the guys responsible for 9/11.”

Take a look at a map, imagine how we would provision the 70,000+ (31,000 American) troops now in Afghanistan without Pakistan’s cooperation. Not to mention, how we could support even greater numbers that the Dems are calling for. Like almost everything they say, it makes no sense to make an enemy of Pakistan. Well, at least anymore than we are doing now – since Pak forces shot at two of our Kiowas the other day, and our ground troops fired back.

Waziristan and all the lawless Northwest Pak provinces are the new Ho Chi Minh trail, that’s completely unacceptable, but invading Pakistan ain’t gonna help us in the long run. But we all know Dem thinking doesn’t run that deep.

Meanwhile, here’s the NYT editorial’s laugh-line on the debate: “When the discussion turned to Iraq, it was profoundly disturbing to see that Mr. McCain seems to have learned nothing from the disastrous war. … But Mr. McCain was still talking about winning, rather than how he was going to plan a necessary and responsible exit.”

Yeah, how crazy is that? To talk about WINNING a major war against Al Qaeda in the heart of the Middle East, in the country with the world’s second largest oil reserves. How DARE McCain speak of winning?

Sep 27, 2008 - 11:28 am 114. Konyok:

I’m thinking Nixon and Cambodia, Israel and the Gaza Strip.

Senator Obama is saying we should make major deployments to Afghanistan and ignore the Pakistani border.

I think that is the big news of the debate and I would love to hear comments from Obama supporters.

Sep 27, 2008 - 11:28 am 115. Mark - Orlando:

McCain won on:
Substance, passion, understanding, leadership, experience, reforming spending, and reminded me about what we need now – someone who has results in bringing both sides of the isle together.

Obama reminded me of Bush the way he polarizes.

Obama is more like Bush – he does not bring both sides of the isle together.

This day we need someone who will champion reform in Washington, who will keep us strong overseas, and will move forward on alternative energy (neither impressed me on that last one though. Still talking in generalities)

Sep 27, 2008 - 11:30 am 116. Bob:

nahncee…YOU don’t need to look very far in this country to find a bigot… In your case simply go stand in front of the mirror.
Your comments are ignorant, incorrect and completely inappropriate. To trivialize another persons concept of something you know NOTHING about is less than moronic…
Clealr not only you a bigot you are also a high functioning moron… No doubt you think Gov. Palin is an intellect… LOL.. compared to you she is.

Sep 27, 2008 - 11:39 am 117. Mark O:

Like over 65% of Americans, I believe Obama won the debate.

McCain just seems so bitter and condescending, and obviously less intelligent than Obama.

Obama knocked him out of the park on the economy.

McCain gained some ground with his constant misrepresenatations.

But, again…overall, as with the majority of Americans.. I believe Obama did win this debate by a small margin. That’s not good for McCain who needed to gain traction last night, but slipped further behind.

Why wasn’t Palin available for comment afterward?

I’m really looking forward to see how she does against Biden next week. I cannot imagine the McCain campaign is very confident, given their hesitation to trot her out for anything with the media.

Sep 27, 2008 - 11:42 am 118. Mike Sylwester:

Konyok:
“What do you think of Senator Obama’s call for incursions into Pakistan?”
—–

My interpretation is that Obama is supporting the Bush Administration’s policies of bombing and raiding inside Pakistan.

Sep 27, 2008 - 11:43 am 119. Konyok:

Fascinating.

To cast Nahncee as a bigot, Bob employs … bigotry.

Meanwhile, I’m waiting for Obama supporters to explain the Pakistan comments.

Sep 27, 2008 - 11:45 am 120. Alexis:

If an Obama supporter claims that all Christians should be put to death and Barack Obama claims he is a Christian, either such an Obama supporter wants to kill Barack Obama or he apparently thinks Barack Obama isn’t a Christian after all. Now, if Barack Obama isn’t a Christian, what would that mean…?

Hope. Change. Change we can believe in. Change we need. Because anybody else would be more of the same. (eye roll)

Sep 27, 2008 - 11:53 am 121. Konyok:

@Mike S.

As Senator McCain pointed out last night, the current policy is to quietly conduct operations against specific targets. Senator Obama is calling explicitly for cross-border operations.

Is this refreshing honesty? Or, is it a signal that an Obama administration would ratchet up the conflict?

How does this square with the antiwar sentiment that has brought the senator to where he is now?

Sep 27, 2008 - 11:55 am 122. peterike:

Wow Mark O, congratulations on re-typing your Obama spin notes delivered from the Politburo.

These O-trolls are so obvious with their canned statements. It’s like robot-speech. There’s no “voice” behind any of it. It would be fascinating if there was a mole in the organization who would do a tell-all about how it’s coordinated and so on.

Ahh, if I were younger and had the time I would do just that. Pretend to be a KosKid, infiltrate, and then expose the charade.

Single biggest joke “analysis” of the debate, Mark Halperin of Time. What a jackass. He gives McCain B- or C’s in every category. And the O gets a bunch of A’s. Ahh yes, Obama was “Polished, confident, focused. Fully prepared, and able to convey a real depth of knowledge on nearly every issue.”

I guess to Halperin a bunch of Leftie smoke constitutes “real depth of knowledge.”

And it’s true, Halperin really CAN tickle Obama’s nose with his tongue while kissing his ass. What a disgrace.

Sep 27, 2008 - 12:03 pm 123. peterike:

A great article parsing Obama’s post-60s worldview. Scary stuff in many ways and dead on target. These folks don’t know what they don’t know. That’s why it’s impossible to talk to them. They are stuffed full of false notions. It could takes years to deprogram the typical Obamaoid.

http://weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/015/624stejn.asp?pg=1

It also reminded me of O’s “the bomb that fell on Pearl Harbor” stupidity. McCain should have mentioned that when O brought up the “bomb bomb Iran” business.

Sep 27, 2008 - 12:19 pm 124. Amy:

Was this really a debate? I thought in a debate the two sides were supposed to give logical arguments for their position on a specific issue — the two participants speaking one right after the other so that the two sides could be compared. It seemed that Obama, particularly, frequently went off on tangents so that he could work in his various campaign promises (tax cuts for 95%, universal health care, etc.)that had nothing to do with the issue supposedly being discussed. So this “debate” often seemed to me just like more campaign speeches.

Sep 27, 2008 - 12:39 pm 125. PharmaGuy:

The bots may have forgotten about Drudge. With 365K votes in on a poll of who won the debate its been John Sidney McCain 68%, Barak Hussein Obama 30%, 2% Neither. Numbers have been remarkably consistent since the poll opened shortly after the debate.

Disappointed that JSM didn’t take BHO to task on his pals Billy and Bernadette, etc. BHO was rude.

Wretchard, thanks for the great site. Must reading for me.

Sep 27, 2008 - 12:42 pm 126. Doug:

Great find, peterike, a must-read, folks.

Sep 27, 2008 - 12:42 pm 127. Doug:

I was disappointed he didn’t take on all the Democrat Crooks that fleeced Fannie and Freddie and grew them into Destructive Governmental Monstrosities.

Sep 27, 2008 - 12:45 pm 128. Courtney:

Toni, you are complaining about racism, yet you make sexist comments on Palin. You’re an idiot.I’m not going to waste my time with arguing with liberals like you, when you don’t know enough politically.

MCCAIN/PALIN 08

Sep 27, 2008 - 12:47 pm 129. Chris:

I think it was to close to call. They both argued their points and got time clear up some of the spin they had been putting on each other. I think if you were already leaning one way you are still leaning that way,”I know I am”. If you were in the middle, hopefully something got cleared up for you so you can make an educated decision. I think the people who are saying McCain won or Obama won are just rooting for there side there was no clear winner here.

Sep 27, 2008 - 12:52 pm 130. Mike Sylwester:

Konyok:
“… the current policy is to quietly conduct operations against specific targets. Senator Obama is calling explicitly for cross-border operations. Is this refreshing honesty? Or, is it a signal that an Obama administration would ratchet up the conflict? How does this square with the antiwar sentiment that has brought the senator to where he is now? ”
————–

You seem to be making a big deal about Obama’s stating PUBLICLY that he would attack targets inside Pakistan. Since everyone knows, however, that the Bush Administration has been bombing and raiding inside Pakistan, most people will not be shocked by Obama stating PUBLICLY that he would do the same actions.

I have been skeptical by Obama’s statements that he intends to fight seriously to defend the Afghanistan government. I think he lacks the fortitude to do so, and furthermore I think he talks tough about fighting in Afghanistan in order to justify his willingness to surrender in Iraq.

However, he sure did talk the talk about Afghanistan in the debates. Nobody can say that Obama sounded like he will avoid fighting for Afghanistan.

Sep 27, 2008 - 12:57 pm 131. Charles:

During the debate Lehrer said that the banking meltdown precludes any real uptick in government spending no matter who gets in. So he asked — given the thin tax revenues and big debts – what would be the one program for which a candidate would add revenue.

Obama said “I’d still like to expand early education”.

What does he actually mean by that, and why did single it out of all the items on his agenda?

Interesting answer at freerepublic. it has to do with ayers
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2091543/posts

fwiw I lived across the street from Bank Street College during those years. coincidence? I think so. But in those years my opinions were fairly congruent to that liberal neighborhood. From time to time I keep in touch with some of the guys I knew from that time and place. They have also moved away from that neighborhood but their liberal frame has not changed.

To columbia’s credit there is an increasingly active conservative alumni association that checks in over at freerepublic–but they’re a raindrop in the liberal tide there.

Sep 27, 2008 - 1:08 pm 132. Lifeofthemind:

My theory, and I’m sticking with it, is that the script trolls whether for Obama or Putin are really the same people. In fact I suspect they are the employees of phone/web-chat sex boiler rooms who are rented out for the occasion. They may be domestic or in India depending on the market. Notoriously they are portrayed in literature and TV as little old ladies supplementing their social security by following scripts that protray them as 23 year old bombshells. Posting for Obama is a holiday for them by comparison.

Sep 27, 2008 - 1:15 pm 133. Mike Sylwester:

Paul:
“I was hoping for a strong thematic attack on Obama illuminating his preference for actions that weaken America and embolden our enemies. McCain didn’t do that. There was no philosophical discussion of difference in approaches from leftists and conservatives. ”
————-

Well stated. I agree.

In general, McCain has been talking about himself way too much and about the big issues way too little. Last night we heard that he has known this or that person for this or that many years and that he has voted for or against this or that legislative proposal. We heard that he wears a wrist bracelet from a soldier who died in Iraq. Those kinds of statements have their place, but enough is enough.

In the meantime, he failed to point out major differences between the Republicans and Democrats on the Defense budget, on willingness to use military force, on intelligence gathering, and on generally being tough instead of soft.

He failed to say that he supported the Iraq War from the beginning and that he would support it again and that the world is and will be a better place because we have been fighting and winning the Iraq War. From what he said, it seemed he supported only the Surge and conceded that Obama was right to oppose the Iraq War from the beginning.

Most basically, McCain failed to communicate that the USA still faces major threats from abroad and that the USA still must act militarily abroad to protect our freedom and international peace. So, we still need a strong, powerful military and we still must lead the World militarily.

Sep 27, 2008 - 1:19 pm 134. K.L. Deas-Ray:

Look! to the idiot who says he don’t see Asians or Arabs talking about racism..KNOW YOUR HISTORY!!! READ SOME BOOKS!!!! ASIANS AND ARABS WERE NOT BROUGHT TO A COUNTRY AGAINST THEIR WILL AND FORCE TO DO FREE LABOR TO BUILD A COUNTRY INTO THE RICHEST NATION IN THE WORLD JUST TO BE TREATED AS 2ND CLASS CITIZENS.. THEIR WOMEN RAPED, FAMILIES SPLIT UP BREEDED LIKE ANIMALS…THE INDIANS DIDN’T STAND A CHANCE WITH IGNORANT WHITE MEN AND THEIR BIG GUNS AND LITTLE BRAINS…HOW IN THE HELL CAN MCCAIN BE GOOD FOR THIS COUNTRY WHEN HE OWNS 7 HOUSES AND YOUR PROBABLY DON’T OWN ONE..GO OBAMA…AND DOWN WITH ALL THE IGNORANT WHITE CARNIVAL TRASH..

Sep 27, 2008 - 1:21 pm 135. whitehall:

My dad is a retired UAW man, WWII vet, Democrat. Pretty much the “Reagan Democrat” type. Certainly no love for Bush.

His line on Obama has always been “That boy doesn’t know what he’s getting into.”

McCain pounded home that point to Reagan Democrats time and time again.

I will agree that Obama looked and sounded presidential – he just had the wrong ideas.

The killer punch from McCain when he made it perfectly clear how a meeting without preconditions would go:

“I’ll wipe Israel off the map!”

“No you won’t!”

He had plenty of other openings to do the same. The closest was the comparison of US and Irish corporate tax rates.

Neither one explained just what NATO membership for Georgia, Poland, etc entails – American troops on the front lines against Russians, just like the Fulda Gap. When the shooting starts (again) our boys will be there, pulling triggers and bleeding.

Do you think Poland is counting on German troops taking a bullet for Polish freedom?

Sep 27, 2008 - 1:24 pm 136. Foul Harold:

Re: K.L Deas-Ray

http://video.barnesandnoble.com/DVD/Something-New/Sanaa-Lathan/e/25192886522

Check out the Customer Reviews section. “Diary of a Mad Black Woman” indeed.

Sep 27, 2008 - 1:38 pm 137. Steynian 256 « Free Mark Steyn!:

[...] Who won the U.S. Presidential Candidates Debate? Who cares?, sez this elf. “Who has the fascist Truth Squads?” is the real question. ~ [...]

Sep 27, 2008 - 3:38 pm

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