135 Comments

1. Bob Hawkins:

With government funding for radicals being the water in the vase. Hence the ACORN earmark in the bailout bill.

Sep 28, 2008 - 7:28 am 2. Charles:

Here is another intersesting tool.
‘In Quotes’ Displays What Politicians Said About a Keyword’
Google Labs launches a little webapp called In Quotes, which searches and compares things politicians have said in the news by keyword.It doesn’t have a graphics feature and the number of polititicians looks to be limited
http://labs.google.com/inquotes/

Sep 28, 2008 - 7:48 am 3. programmer:

Wretchard,
I seldom disagree with your observations, but in this one case I certainly do.

You state:

The unremitting assault by the Action Wires, street-men from ACORN, spokesmen with no apparent concern even for the appearance of fairness and even government prosecutors upon his critics more resembles the behavior of the desperate rather than the supremely confident.

programmer opines:

To me, this resembles more supreme confidence that the Left is in the ascendancy and no longer has to conceal anything. They feel they have the votes, the momentum, and their “constituents” approve of their ideology and methodology. They are on a headlong rush to a long awaited victory where they will crush the oppressors. They can smell the cool, clean air of freedom of long awaited Change. They tremblingly anticipate the euphoric rush of Hope realized. Anything is possible, free from the restraints of the old ways of doing things, there are no limits to anything. Free, free at last.

Excuse me, I’ll be right back, I need to go look up the definition of chaos….

Sep 28, 2008 - 7:56 am 4. Tony:

This lust for Power now, by any means necessary, would also explain the increasing meanness ever since Gore “really won” in 2000, as Gore and fanatical Dems argued. It would also explain how “Swiftboating” became a pejorative synonym for “liar” when they only used Kerry’s own book and filmed testimony to make their point. But for the American voter, the vast majority outside the academy, Marxism was never relevant in the US - it’s called “The New Deal and “The Great Society” and a large segment of the population has never lost its lust for free money from the government. Though all of our big cities are evidence of the ruinous effects of government interference in society, it’s a dream that is carrying Obama forward.

The upside of an Obama Presidency is that it will inoculate America from electing Dems for 3 or 4 elections aftward, just like Jimmy Carter’s Presidency did.

Btw, don’t Obama’s rabid Web minions contradict your statement that The emergence of the Internet has devaluated the formerly tight grip cultural Marxism had on culture. Or maybe it doesn’t count if the minions don’t even know what they’re minionizing about. They don’t know Obama is preaching Marxism, they just hate Bush in particular and America in general.

Sep 28, 2008 - 7:59 am 5. Charles:

In this exchange obama says that he too has a memory bracelet of a dead soldier–just like john mccain.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a63v0GF8Fs4

however, according to this piece the family of the dead soldier David Jopek now wants Obama to stop wearing the bracelet.
http://conservablogs.com/publiusforum/2008/09/28/family-told-obama-not-to-wear-soldier-sons-bracelet-he-still-does/

Sep 28, 2008 - 8:07 am 6. andrewdb:

The evidence you cite could also mean they have changed their vocabulary. This is not evidence they have changed their belief.

Sep 28, 2008 - 8:35 am 7. A Conservative Teacher:

Great post. This could also be related to the re-emergence in the 80’s of good-old-fashioned conservatism, and as children of the 80’s grow up, there is a generation change between what they talk about and do research on, as opposed to the children of the 60’s, who were died-in-wool liberal. What generation is Obama from again? The 60’s? In this case, McCain’s age helps him- he was raised before liberalism became the ideology. He might be the bridge that connects us to the next younger generation of Palin.

Sep 28, 2008 - 8:36 am 8. Alexis:

The Left losing influence in the Academy may be the best thing to ever happen to the Left, for while academe is a good place to preserve an ideology for a while, it is also a place that fosters complacency. Indeed, much of academic radicalism isn’t so much a reflection of any inherently leftist nature of college campuses, but rather upon the legendary spinelessness of university administrators who will cave in to those who scream the loudest.

We wouldn’t be hearing the term “Orientalism” as a perjorative were it not for Edward Said. Never mind that his polemic is utter nonsense, spewing misconceptions about “western” culture along the way. His very anger not only gained adherents but also intimidated those who disagreed with him. Despite the apparent protections of academic tenure, academe is quite vulnerable to subtle forms of intimidation.

Sep 28, 2008 - 8:54 am 9. Mark:

Pound writes (Hugh Selwyn Mauberley):

“There died a myriad,
And of the best, among them,
For an old bitch gone in the teeth,
For a botched civilization . . . .”

We seem to be following our European betters in our fatigue with the hard work of maintaining defence and freedom. How much easier to follow a new way, a new leader. The mainline churches wonder where their young have gone. The young simply cut out the middlemen, going directly to the front lines of the children’s crusade, wherein we will all just get along, once we get rid of the Bush meanies.

While the academic journals may be running a little less forcefully with torrents of the kinds of language referred to in the graphs, the popular culture has been drinking this language in its popularized version for many years, in schools, churches, and opinion columns.

Sep 28, 2008 - 9:01 am 10. dla:

I think it is helpful to stop and consider wealth in America (I’m hijacking this thread - trust me). The LEFT caters to the lower-income class and RIGHT to the upper.

Next time you hear some talking head use the term “Middle-class”, ask yourself “what does it mean?”. Does it mean those people earning up to the median income of $29K/year (max of $14.50/hr)? That would be the definition based on US Income tax return data.

Are you rich if you are in the top 25% ($57K and up)?

My point is that Marxism has always been popular amongst the “have nots”. American liberalism is repackaged European socialism. And Democrats currently try to cater to the “middle class”.

Sep 28, 2008 - 9:11 am 11. slade:

My mind doesn’t “do” social thinking but to the extent that I can sweat out a thought, I would say that the “Middle Class” has shrunk in this country - in fact as well as in values. The near past contains few instances of political references to the Middle Class that has found resonance with issues I would support - the public narratives no longer connecting with the public realities.

Like hunting for RINOs in the bowling alley.

Sep 28, 2008 - 9:20 am 12. Mrs. Davis:

The Gene Expression analysis really reflects the passing of the boomers from scholarly productivity. By 1995 they had all gotten tenure or moved on to greener pastures that did not require publish or perish. Now the journals are being filled with the hogwash of an up and coming generation that is repulsed by the hogwash of the generation that came before it and is working feverishly to make it’s reputation by blazing exciting new trails in obscurancy. If only Gene Expression had identified the new risers we would have known what intellectual concepts to short now.

Sep 28, 2008 - 9:31 am 13. hdgreene:

The left believe they posses a special wisdom. The rest of the population are sheep. Once in power the left herds them into the collective and takes out the shears.

I saw John Kerry on Fox this morning. I don’t really listen when he talks. But somehow he ended up saying Sen. Obama is the true conservative on National Security — wanting to fight in Afghanistan and stuff. Well, in Marxists terms, maybe…

That the far left must use Stealth — including redefining words — to acquire power says much. I do not think they will use stealth to keep it. We can hope that Sen. Obama is as reasonable as he often sounds — but it is just a hope and I would say a slim one. Leftist believe the current political establishment stays in power through deception and intimidation. It is a fair bet they will deploy those tactics “squared” to keep power once they have it.

If you are looking toward “four years and out” for the left, do not assume that is what the future holds. I do not think Obama’s hardcore supporters will accept the peaceful return of Republicans to power (they may not be able to stop it, but that is a different matter).

This might be the American Left’s “Allende” moment. In Chile in the early 70’s Allende governed as if he won a landslide (he got less than 40 percent of the vote) for a radical program — and most voters were unaware of the extent. While in power his supporters prepared the use of violence and intimidation to stay in power. What Chile got was a coup d’etat from the military instead.

Sen. Obama may not know what is in store. His leftist supporters may well see Obama as the “New Allende” — the smiling face of Marxism. Most of them have no great love for “the system” they seek to control and radically change. They could reasonably hope that the strong prohibitions against the “security services” meddling in US politics will prevent the Allende ending. They just need to keep up a legal facade for what they do. The attempt of Democrats to channel billions to ACORN in the recent bailout bill is not a cause for optimism.

I’m likely wrong here. But if we have a one in ten chance of an “Allende” in our future (even if he is well meaning rather than diabolical) — is it one we should take? Christopher Hitchens might say “yes.” I would say no.

Sep 28, 2008 - 9:35 am 14. steveaz:

Wretchard wrote: “It’s now or never.”

I think Obama’s choice of Biden for VP supports Wretchard’s view.

Unions are fast becoming anachronistic - yet, Joe Biden is their biggest fan. He wasn’t chosen for his consistent views on the war, nor for his charisma, nor for his sterling record in the Senate. He was chosen in order to shore-up the vote of organized labor. And, if elected, Biden will lead O’s efforts to increase union participation, by hook or by crook.

I think Wretchard and the guys at Gene Expression are onto something here.

Sep 28, 2008 - 9:57 am 15. hdgreene:

Sorry, “the left believe they possess a special wisdom.” Came up short an “s” there. I knew I should reread that post. Or at least the first sentence.

Sep 28, 2008 - 10:03 am 16. slade:

The Fix is in.

Others read Reynolds as well as I do, but I note that the heinous ACORN earmark was likely the intentional insertion of a bargaining chip (big duh!! to some of us who need to brush up on our chess moves.)

Sep 28, 2008 - 10:04 am 17. slade:

The Unions (now suffering under health care costs after reversing away from the decline into corruption) served a purpose that is forgotten in the modern environment:

How China Created a new Slave Empire in Africa

[h/t Glenn Reynolds]

Sep 28, 2008 - 10:12 am 18. isaic:

do please check what /andrewdb/ says. short & right on the money.
the graphs merely make spiffy a very crude “analysis”. what they do show is that these diverse “currents” are related. which was never a secret to anybody was paying attention.

what happens is that, say, marxists themselves aren’t “marxist” anymore. but whatever the words, marxism is well, alas, fat & beautiful. (oh, we do remember, yes? that liberal/democrat do not, by rights, mean political left. not that that gives anyone pause & we all acquiesce in that nonsense).

asian, or whatever, numbers may yet not be so relevant. here, perhaps, demographics are in their favour. revolution by stealth or, better, by generation replacement (damn medical advancement slowed things down a bit, but no matter).
it all comes down to what education one does (that is to say, does not) get.

to conclude, the “desperation” may well be but “impatience”, a characteristic that would accord well with the (real) mental age of the lot.

Sep 28, 2008 - 10:19 am 19. Fred:

I have a more prosaic explanation. The unprecedented impeachment of Bill Clinton was very traumatic for many Democrats. They saw it as the reason Bush 43 got into office by a squeaker. They could easily be right.

It was the end of the era where politics ended at the waters edge. It’s not desperation or the approach of triumph, it’s a new level of meanness.

Sep 28, 2008 - 10:22 am 20. Insufficiently Sensitive:

My point is that Marxism has always been popular amongst the “have nots”. American liberalism is repackaged European socialism. And Democrats currently try to cater to the “middle class”.

Those notions don’t begin to pass the laugh test. Marxism was thought up by, organized by, led by and profited from by elite ‘intellectuals’. They thought up some slogans that by demagoguery would enrage the ‘have-nots’ sufficiently to enlist them as cannon fodder and street mobs - and then when they did succeed in seizing power, it was those humble ‘intellectuals’ who ended up with the mistresses and limousines and dachas, while the surviving cannon fodder lived in misery for decades. Misery, and jealousy of the peasants of neighboring countries who hadn’t succumbed to The Revolution, and thereby who had enjoyed steadily increasing living standards.

Democrats pretend to cater to the middle class, because that’s where the votes are. But since the MoveOn-Soros-Kennedy axis of bazillionaires has hijacked Henry Jackson’s old Democratic party, their tactics smell of the false God of zero-sum economics: The Money is in the wrong hands, and when we’re in powere The People will simply wrest it away and live in bounteous plenty. Never mind the idea that an economy expands due to entrepreneurial risk-taking and decision-making, we’ll just leave those constructive concepts to our Wise Planners over here. No, you don’t get no input into the Planning if you’re someone nobody sent.

Sep 28, 2008 - 10:23 am 21. RWE:

The most astonishing thing about those graphs is that when the USSR went Tango Uniform in 1991, the trends continue UPWARDS for some years. And by the way, the “Red” Chinese had offically renounced Marxism back in 1984.

I recall that after the Soviets folded up the Congressional Black Caucus presented a set of proposals with the arguement that amounted to “Now that the threat of Communism is gone we can now fully implement socialism.” On the surface this was like saying that since the Pinto production line had been freed up we could now go back to building Edsels.

But in fact, it appears that the end of Communism was viewed as a wonderful opportunity for the socialists. Now that they no longer had the Workers’ Paradise as a bad example of their creed they were liberated to truly expound on the wonders of the next best thing.

Sep 28, 2008 - 10:27 am 22. Mad Fiddler:

In 1985, a 747 of Japan Air Lines lost its vertical tail fin and rudder, yet continued controlled flight for half an hour before crashing.

The Leftward-hurtling idiots have no steering, no navigation, no idea of what they’re doing, but the “ship” is still airborne, despite their utter incompetence.

Sep 28, 2008 - 10:35 am 23. NahnCee:

Judging by the performance of the Obamatrons who infested the previous thread on who won the debate, I can’t imagine them taking over ANYthing, let alone running it. If they did, it would be like the Khmer Rouge’s battalions of teenaged children trying to herd the general population into programming centers. An armed and averse-to-brainwashing general population, I might add. Not gonna happen.

Does it strike anyone else as even faintly odd, the story out of Missouri about Obama’s campaign “enlisting Missouri law enforcement” to threaten free speech? Thinking about this, just exactly how is it supposed to work? Unlike academia and the media, attorney generals and other lawyers are not known for tipping progressive liberal — well, maybe in New York or California, but certainly not in Missouri. And I’ve never seen numbers for them, but many many police officers are ex-military which should mean that they tip conservative.

So who’s going to prosecute this insanity, who’s going to arrest the “law-breakers”, and who’s going to judge the resulting Kangaroo Trial — who in Missouri has agreed with the Obama campaign to set aside their oaths of office to go after people making perfectly legal statements that might have hurted little Barak’s feelings?

This story, to me, does reek of the desperation Wretchard mentioned above. It’s just so ludicrous and un-doable in the United States of America. Very much like a playground tussle that ends in, “Oh yeah! Well my daddy can beat YOUR daddy, and I’m gonna tell!”

Sep 28, 2008 - 10:43 am 24. PharmaGuy:

andrewdb said:

“The evidence you cite could also mean they have changed their vocabulary. This is not evidence they have changed their belief.”

Andrew is spot on.

Also, for the socialist, Marxist left, “by any means necessary” has always been the mantra, the fruits of which are the Ukrainian famine in the 30s, Pol Pot, the Great Cultural Revolution” ad nauseum….

Sep 28, 2008 - 10:55 am 25. Konyok:

In this personality driven political environment, ideological senascence is not a liability. What matters is the sentiment inspired by imagery and impressionistic associations. (Which explains the media animus for Sarah Palin - she threatens to personify a potent counter narrative to the elite’s favored world view.)

Che Guevara’s tousled hair and defiant expression have become the icon of youthful idealism. Let the cranks and scolds ponder the facts of history, it feels good to think that you can remake the world through the nobility of your sentiment, and look good doing it!
It really doesn’t matter that the blueprint is tattered and blood stained. We are young, we are American and our hearts are pure.
The Ayers generation knew what they were doing, they remain serious and committed. They struggled with the problem of false consciousness and the albatross of the Soviet Union around the socialist neck. They found refuge in the youth culture of the 60’s and remade themselves in America’s nostalgia as uncompromising idealists.
(One interesting development since the end of the cold war is the transgressive, *playful* adoption of communist symbols by western youth and the use of fascist symbols by Russian youth … )
The recombinant gene splicing between socialism and environmentalism has given the discredited marxist argument a new lease on life. The old promise of a better life for the people through the expropriation of capital has been transmorgrified to salvation from ecological catastrophe by a new class of all-powerful and selfless youth committed to social justice and postmodern aesthetic perfection.

Critics who see this are shunned as “bitter clingers” or tinfoil hat conspiracy theorists. The *it* that we don’t get isn’t an articulated, rational belief system. *It* is a cultural stance, an attitude, a sensibility, an aesthetic condensate of the angst and comfort of living in a mass society. (The contrast with the youth movement in the Islamic world is revealing … )

Sep 28, 2008 - 10:57 am 26. Uncle Jefe:

Hey, where are all of the obamatrons?

Sep 28, 2008 - 11:02 am 27. exhelodrvr:

hdgreene,
” “the left believe they possess a special wisdom.” Came up short an “s” there. ”

Gotta watch out for those s-holes on the left!!

Sep 28, 2008 - 11:03 am 28. Habu:

Oh, Your welcome NahnCee.

Sep 28, 2008 - 11:04 am 29. exhelodrvr:

RWE,
“Tango Uniform”

LOL! Been awhile since I’ve heard that expression.

Sep 28, 2008 - 11:05 am 30. Konyok:

Obama supporters universally reject the identification of their candidate as a “socialist.”

I’m convinced that most of them, even some of the most sophisticated, simply don’t see this dimension of Senator Obama. They sincerely believe that anybody with this insight “just doesn’t get it.” *It* being the aesthetic sensibility that Obama appeals to. The handiest explanation available to them is that we are racist.

From the very beginning of his campaign, Senator Obama has avoided questions of political philosophy and concentrated on emotional ambience. His entire argument is that he gets *it,* indeed, sometimes he hints that he embodies *it,* and that his opponents are “out of touch.”

We don’t know *why* must be president, but we do know that he best personifies the “West wing” standards of ideal presidential aesthetics.

Sep 28, 2008 - 11:33 am 31. Eggplant:

Uncle Jefe asked:

“Hey, where are all of the obamatrons?”

Maybe it’s one team that works different blogs as a group (centrally organized?). Their commenting style is easy to recognize and ignore (you see it all the time in the MSM comment areas). Fortunately for today, we are not “blessed” with their presence.

Different topic: Take a look at the Gallup Tracking poll:

http://www.gallup.com/poll/110740/Gallup-Daily-Obama-Moves-50-42-Lead.aspx

McCain’s short term popularity is closely tracking the public’s concern about the economy. McCain’s gambit with Palin was working but then the economy went sour. The public for some irrational reason thinks the economy could be better run under Marxist management (blame that on the MSM).

There’s no doubt that the economy is in trouble. I see the $700 billion bailout as mainly a “patch” to allow air to leak slowly out of the economic bubble. If the bailout fails and there is a sudden economic collapse then McCain is probably toast.

As I have said more than once, we are in serious trouble if the Messiah wins. There is no way the Messiah is competent to manage a major economic recovery. If anything, he’ll make the situation much worse by employing obsolete socialist methods. Add to this, the Messiah’s obvious lack of national security competence will intice foreign enemies to “test” him through military and terrorist actions. We as a nation are in very serious trouble.

Some people might try and see a silver lining in this up coming disaster, e.g. after the Messiah is finished with us, political correctness, affirmitive action, the MSM and moonbatting will all be dirty words. Unfortunately, we may be a smoking crater after the Messiah is finished with us. I hate using this cliche but we really are looking at a “perfect storm”.

Sep 28, 2008 - 11:48 am 32. johnclubvec:

In the Mail Online, Peter Hitchens reports on “How China has created a new slave empire in Africa”. The very first comment to this listing of Chinese atrocities is from an American: “American greed caused this… due to corporations such as Wal Mart and many others moving millions of American jobs overseas to improve profit margins.”

It may never, ever end.

Sep 28, 2008 - 11:51 am 33. RWE:

Exhelo: How many people here do you think know what Tango Uniform stands for and in turn what that phrase means?

I was half expecting a flurry of questions on that subject.

Anyway, glad you liked it. Sierra Hotel!

Sep 28, 2008 - 11:59 am 34. slade:

Obama, the man not the party or the campaign, seems more closely attuned to the problems in the current cycle of African history where truly in every sense of the word outside agencies are exploiting a population whose only choices are labor without human rights protection or death by starvation. To argue that the Chinese presence in these countries is increasing the standard of living for poverty-stricken Africans is to deny reality on the ground where the dignity of labor has been abandoned for profit. The conditions could not be more ripe for Part II of the last century just as America pulls itself out of post-modern financial excesses driven by the last vestiges of socialist inspired largesse. They could use some good old fashioned community organizing over there, not to mention some Irish union organizers.

Any volunteers?

Sep 28, 2008 - 12:02 pm 35. Konyok:

RWE,

Is it “tits up?”

Sep 28, 2008 - 12:04 pm 36. Eggplant:

Is Israel currently under a caretaker government?

There is one wild card remaining in the US Presidential election. It is obviously not in Israel’s best interests for the Messiah to become President. Israel could force the election towards McCain by launching a raid against Iran. However if Israel is under a caretaker government (Olmert is still in charge) then such drastic action is probably not an option.

What a stupd situation! We’re now at the mercy of what the Israeli government thinks is in its best interests (not ours). Welcome to the future.

Sep 28, 2008 - 12:05 pm 37. peterike:

Judging by the performance of the Obamatrons who infested the previous thread on who won the debate, I can’t imagine them taking over ANYthing

I would agree, but the ideological script kiddies doing this gruntwork are not the folks in charge. You can tell by the consistent lack of maturity in their expressions, the nullity of personality behind them. They are just arrogant twits high-fiving each other in cyberspace each time they imagine they slap the face of the Fascist Right. Odds are they never even read the responses they create. I wonder if some IP tracking could show this? Do they post and go, never to return? Do they hang around a while? Do they come back later? I wonder.

Anyway, the point being that these trolls are not the folks making any decisions. That is being done by much harder, sharper, malevolent types like Soros and Ayers and, I believe, Obama himself, despite his Johnny Sunshine hopey-changey facade. There are very sharp teeth behind that smile, teeth that have been patiently waiting.

“We are the ones we’ve been waiting for” is the most open admission of a Will to Power that I think I’ve ever seen from a “mainstream” politician. Such talking used to be the realm of far Left cranks. Now it’s the Democratic party’s center.

What is the counter-point to “we are the ones we’ve been waiting for”? What about anyone who isn’t part of “we”? All pigs are equal, but some are more equal than others. I think I need to re-read “Animal Farm.”

As for the Missouri events, Nahncee I think you make a lot of good points about who would enforce such things, etc. And the harsh response from the Missouri governor was very heartening. But I think the whole episode was a trial balloon. How would “the system” react? How would the media react? (predictably, by ignoring it). How would McCain react? Has he even shown that he’s aware of it? Have the Republicans made an ad about it yet?

It was, I think, an attempt to see how far they could push things, and it just so happens to be in a state that is a swing state, and a state notorious for Democratic vote fraud.

The real goal might not be to stop NRA ads. The real goal might be to stiffle any dissent or whistle blowing when masses of the dead and the illegal come out to vote Obama over the top on election night.

Democrats have made threats for years every time an election comes around, but they are generally veiled threats. This time, the veil came off entirely. And the world didn’t end, and Obama hasn’t been called on it. Mission accomplished, expect more later.

Sep 28, 2008 - 12:07 pm 38. RWE:

Konyok: I was once told that even Tango Uniform was insufficiently sensitive to female sensibilities (okay, so that’s an oxymoron) and thus inadequately PC for use in a Federal Government workplace. The phrase you used has to be far worse in that regard. So my reply is “Yes, but I didn’t say it, you did.” Nahncee and Terisita take note, please.

Eggplant: Cederford must be catatonic.

Saw a little item on FNC today pointing out that the Bush Admin was expressing concerns about the situation at Fannie May and Freddie Mac back in 2003, and that in response that Barney Frank assured everyone that was just fine, nothing to see here folks, move along. For that matter, do y’all recall how about 2 months ago the head Democrats all starting saying that everything was just Okay fine with those two entities and no one should worry? Before that no one was worried, as far as I know. This sounds to me like walking into a crowded theater and telling every one that they DO NOT smell smoke, no matter what they think, and to ignore any fire alarms because it’s just some testing going on - as you look for the large group of pyromaniacs that just escaped from the local mental hospital.

Sep 28, 2008 - 12:44 pm 39. bill:

One reason for the decline is the growing popularity of environmentalism, where most of the brighter communists saw more opportunity than shilling for burned out ideologies.

catholicfundamentalism.com makes the point (sometimes too often) that the Trotskyites mostly became environmentalists, where they work to destroy the funding for the hated Stalinists’ vast public education empire.

If they can’t get tenure churning out bilge, they get into environmentalism, where there’s still enough suckers taking it seriously to fund them.

Sep 28, 2008 - 12:44 pm 40. Konyok:

Another way to try to define this ineffable *it* is to consider the correlation between the popularity of bowdlerized forms of Zen Buddhism and the New Left in America.
In its essence, Zen argues that doctrine is an impediment to enlightenment. Traditional forms of Buddhism seek union with the Buddha nature through carefully studying and meditating on the sutras. (Like traditional marxists who sought guidance from the works of Marx, Engels, Lenin et al.) The goal is to find the truth through reason.
The Zen acolyte is instructed to meditate on a koan, a profoundly nonsensical puzzle whose solution does not exist in the realm of reason. This exercise is held to offer the adept a shortcut to transcendent insight.
(The role of Zen Buddhism in supporting Japanese militarism is an inconvenient datum that polite people don’t mention.)
In the same way, the New Left has abandoned doctrine and adopted aesthetics. The koan of this hip sensibility is the notion that social equality equals social freedom. The enduring idea that has become the progressive project is that social justice, indeed, Sowell’s “cosmic justice,” is the necessary precondition for individual liberty.
Like the sound of one hand clapping, this idea requires the suspension of reason in the quest for a higher truth. Because this idea is so ubiquitous, it is taken as axiomatic. Because *it* is ultimately a non sequitor, bourgeois reason is an existential threat that must be discredited at all costs as greedy, racist or backward.
The great irony is that these gentle souls who want to create heaven on earth find themselves gravitating towards the very totalitarian attitudes that they are pledged to resist.

Sep 28, 2008 - 12:50 pm 41. Tony:

RWE, can’t we just pretend it means “toes up” … same pose?

The increasingly nasty and righteously judgemental libs/Dems have a perfect populist example in history, and it’s not the Marxists, it’s the Jacobins. Y’know, the populist enlightenment that France suffered about six or seven forms of government ago.

It started with critically desperate financial reforms, led to chopping the king’s head off, and eventually got around to chopping the heads off the leaders of the Revolution, including shot-in-the-face Robespierre himself.

How’s this sound for a bit of past as prologue (from Wiki)?

The Committee of Public Safety came under the control of Maximilien Robespierre, a lawyer, and the Jacobins unleashed the Reign of Terror (1793-1794). According to archival records, at least 16,594 people died under the guillotine or otherwise after accusations of counter-revolutionary activities.[11] A number of historians note that as many as 40,000 accused prisoners may have been summarily executed without trial or died awaiting trial.[11][12] The slightest hint of counter-revolutionary thoughts or activities (or, as in the case of Jacques Hébert, revolutionary zeal exceeding that of those in power) could place one under suspicion, and trials did not always proceed according to contemporary standards of due process.

The French Revolution (beginning in 1789), aiming to overthrow the king to form a Republic, eventually led to the self-installation of Napoleon as Emperor in 1804.

Funny how liberalism works out, huh?

Sep 28, 2008 - 1:17 pm 42. Ex-fetus:

I wonder if we will ever get a peek at the earmarks on this 700 Billion Dollar rip off. It would be a good place to start the investigation.

Sep 28, 2008 - 2:00 pm 43. Konyok:

Tony,

I’ll buy toes …

I like with your analogy with the Jacobins, but I would relate the feckless progressives with the Girondins. They created the conditions for Robespierre, that bloodstained aesthete, and the Jacobins to unleash the terror.

This relates back to the suggestion of Obama as Allende. It is possible that an ineffective President Obama and Democratic Congress could lead to a military coup. I consider it an equal possibility that the loser Girondins could pave the way for more determined Jacobins.

Sep 28, 2008 - 2:07 pm 44. soupy:

Interesting post. While the Obama campaign may be employing yesterday’s tropes and jargon, it doesn’t necessarily follow that it seeks to implement yesterday’s program. What we do know is that it seeks power, and it is using methods of stealth and suasion that have worked in the recent historical past. We also know that this campaign has the support of 40-45% of the electorate — a remarkable fact considering the weakness of the candidate (his name, origins, resume and racial profile) and the somewhat normal socio-economic conditions that still prevail. Tweak either, a slightly stronger candidate and/or slightly weaker conditions, throw in the updated campaign and the total press support that this campaign enjoys, well, it shouldn’t be too hard to install Obama II — one who, if history is any guide, will pose even more of a menace. And, we can be sure, he is watching this campaign season with great interest.

Sep 28, 2008 - 2:33 pm 45. Eggplant:

Konyok said:

“This relates back to the suggestion of Obama as Allende. It is possible that an ineffective President Obama and Democratic Congress could lead to a military coup.”

It’s a prime failure mode. First, the Islamic facists take out a city. The Messiah waffles and runs around in circles as a second city goes down. Then the military removes the Messiah and the Third Conjecture happens.

It’s as predictable as the sun rising in the morning.

Why can’t people see this? Why aren’t they frightened?

Sep 28, 2008 - 2:37 pm 46. Ann:

Maybe, non-American guy, you should quote “young” people who are under 60.

lol

Sep 28, 2008 - 2:44 pm 47. Ann:

I’m not referring to the sane guy above me.

I’m referring to the sane guy who wrote the, uh, post.

lol

Sep 28, 2008 - 2:46 pm 48. Konyok:

I should have said “barring any external events.”

Of course, Eggplant is right. A spectacular terrorist attack or a limited nuclear exchange with China or Russia would create an immediate demand for the military to restore order.

But, in the absence of such externalities, the military would be loath to intervene in domestic politics.

Sep 28, 2008 - 2:48 pm 49. NahnCee:

peterike - I like your concept of the trial balloon for the threatened Missouri freedom of speech activity. Take it a step further with this hypothesis: *if* Obama’s campaign is being funded by an overseas government or entity, which government or entity leaps to mind as being both rich enough to buy a US President, allows no internal freedom of speech or criticism of its ruling family or religion, is trying to get the UN to pass international laws limiting what can be said about certain religions, and is highly critical of America’s freedom of speech to the point of suing multiple times to try to get this or that book or person shut down?

Sep 28, 2008 - 2:50 pm 50. cedarford:

Both Parties have exhausted banks of ideas.
Democrats want a Great Society 2, but Great Society 1 is obsoleting itself or showing massive dysfunction.

But Republicans had a whole pack of bad ideas caused by the exhaustion of Reaganism or transforming his tactical actions into unalterable ideology. As well as persistance of some of Reaganism’s more horrific ideas like supply side economics, trickledown, tax cuts favoring the wealthiest and the notion that “deficits don’t matter”.

Among the obsolete ideas of Republicans are:

1. Forming a base around Religious Fundies.
2. Making “free trade” an article of near-religious faith that it always benefits America.
3. Crony capitalism.
4. Near-religious “Veneration” of a US Constitution that is doing very poorly in recent years in giving us effective government and a well-working US system responsive to The People instead of moneyed special interest groups.
5. Reckless deregulation.

Add under the lamentable Bush years:

1. Notion of America as the global hegemon of unlimited wealth and resources that must impose a Pax Americana.
2. Rise of cancerous Neocons, and their Wilsonian ideas of nation-building, ever-more entangling foreign alliances to “help any freedom-lovers we see in need!”.
3. That trade deficits don’t matter.
4. That Republicans now stand for LBJ-like growth of Government.
5. That allies, other than our Dear Special Friend Israel, don’t matter.

Both Parties are berift of ideas that work.

Neither Party has a true, natural pragmatist heading the ticket. Voters, in hindsight, really blew it by not having Hillary and Mitt Romney as nominees instead of two men that have rigid ideological areas.
McCain can talk about how Maverick he is, but he agrees with 90% of Republican dogma, and can scream about 18 billion in earmarks while he had no battle with Bush raising the National Deficit from 4 1/2 billion to 9 1/2 billion other than a few peeved speeches and mugging for the camera soundbites.
Obama has some very troubling Leftist cronies and past Leftist activities, but seems more “malleable” than McCain ….and that looks like voters see it as a good thing over a stubborn, obstinate 72-year old who “venerates” a glorious Republican past where many of these problems started.

Edge to Obama.

Sep 28, 2008 - 2:54 pm 51. Tony:

Konyok,

I see your point. In the 60’s we had real Jacobin-like guys in USA, the Black Panthers, the Symbionese Liberation Army, the Weather Underground. (Thankfully not the IRA.) They definitely dialed it up another notch compared to Code Pink, ACORN and MoveOn.boring. Historical note: in the lovey-dovey 60-70’s, the cops killed most of the gun-toting revolutionaries, arrested the rest. That’s a steady pattern in the good ol’ USA.

Heck, now that you mention it, in the 70’s the National Guard shot demonstrating students. Neil Young made a famous song about “Four Dead in Ohio.”

You are right, I am giving these current “radical” guys too much credit, they’re not that radical, but still toxic.

Sep 28, 2008 - 2:57 pm 52. wretchard:

Both Parties have exhausted banks of ideas.

I agree completely. Just now I got an email from a friend who has the vague feeling we are at an inflection point. I’ve felt this for some time, but couldn’t argue from anything but a hunch.

There are two ways to think about the financial crisis. A one time lump moving through a python after which things will return to “normal” — socially, politically and economically. Or a Black Swan which announces that a fundamental discontinuity is beginning. Now I would argue that the most important thing to do is set up a number of tests or trip wires to test our hypothesis. If we are looking at some “damned fool thing in the financial markets” — the starting gun for larger events which may cascade out of control, what indicators would we expect to see in the coming days?

Sep 28, 2008 - 3:12 pm 53. Aristide:

Among the obsolete ideas of Democrats are:

1. Forming a base around Marxist Fundies.
2. Making “government action” an article of near-religious faith that it always benefits America.
3. Crony capitalism.
4. Near-religious “Veneration” of destroying the US Constitution. Proving “Judicial activism” that is doing very poorly in recent years in giving us effective government and a well-working US system responsive to The People instead of moneyed special interest groups .
5. Opposing regulation of their cronies [Fannie & Freddie].

Sep 28, 2008 - 3:48 pm 54. Konyok:

There is ideological exhaustion on both sides. That is a prime reason why the debate has become more aesthetic than rational.
(Consider, a key Democratic criticism of McCain’s performance in the last debate is that he didn’t mention the middle class, even once!)

I would suggest that bank runs or a dramatic sell off of dollar denominated instruments by foreign investors would be an attribute of the Black Swan.

Sep 28, 2008 - 3:52 pm 55. slade:

Both Parties have exhausted banks of ideas. - Cedarford

I was thinking that this morning. Everything in this thread leads to that conclusion (incl. Mrs Davis’s comment about the incoherence of academic writing in the social sciences, said incoherence being more of “a feature not a bug”).

I didn’t want to develop the thought because I am growing weary of “overarching” paradigms such as Chalmers Johnson’s ‘End of American Empire’ thesis. Something unstable and lascivious about that (too much anticipation).

But the thought I do have is that, in the absence of new ideas of governance, how about working on the “plumbing” or the mechanics of how our world works - like cleaning up the financial markets and doing something - anything - about energy. The rest will sort itself out without the top-down direction. It’s a bottom-up kind of thinking for better government.

Africa being another (sad) story soon to demand (a lot of) attention.

Sep 28, 2008 - 3:52 pm 56. Leo Linbeck III:

Both Parties have exhausted banks of ideas.

Well, maybe, but haven’t they always? It’s not the “bank” of ideas that is relevant, but rather the hedgehog ideas (h/t Isaiah Berlin). There are generally 1-3 key ideas that distinguish the parties from one another.

The thing that seems unusual now is that both parties have the same hedgehog ideas: security and reform. For McCain, it’s security from external threats like AQ, Taliban, Russia, etc. It’s reform of government by cutting earmarks, spending, and regulation.

For Obama, it’s security from economic threats like losing your job, your pension, your lifestyle. It’s reform of the economy by redistributing income, reining in greed, and protecting the environment through regulation.

I’d like to vote for freedom and shrinking the public sector. Where is my candidate? I don’t think I’m alone in feeling this way.

So I’ll vote for an inflection point as well. But we won’t be able to detect it by watching the Presidential elections. This change is likely to be a bottom-up change, not top-down. I’m keeping a close eye on the state level, especially Louisiana, Michigan, Ohio, and Nevada. These are states that have either recently experienced a crisis (Katrina), or are in the midst of one (Michigan and Ohio due to auto industry travails, Nevada because of the slumping gaming industry). To this list one could now add New York, I suppose.

My money is on Jindal in LA. He is young, bold, and conservative. If Louisiana really figures it out, we could see the change spread across the country as others adopt the “Louisiana Model.”

Without the Napoleonic Law, of course.

L3

Sep 28, 2008 - 3:54 pm 57. whiskey:

What is the inflection point Wretchard?

One man, one vote, one time.

The media are in the tank for Obama, and the elites literally worship him as a God. Quite literally.

Obama will of course institute some sort of martial law or “Bolivar Circles,” in some form, and the military will of course do nothing. The MO actions are a trial balloon that had no real consequence. So it will be repeated, with greater scope.

What the graphs show is that while the peaks have been reached, they are still at great heights. This influence is not going away for generations.

The Black Swan are the obvious ones: low energy prices make the economy go around, and nuclear proliferation means US cities will die, of course. The elites cannot handle either factor, since first, Obama and Co. have made big bets on expensive energy for their backers, using government to tilt the playing field decisively for “alternative” stuff like Pelosi and T Boone Picken’s wind farm, and second, the inability to respond to nuclear proliferation beyond useless talk.

But buried deeper are bigger problems. Western civilization was built on middle class values and assumptions, which are collapsing amidst an explosion of single motherhood created by rising female incomes, social opportunities, and urban anonymity. Barack Obama, Islam, debased Volk Marxism, nutty new age beliefs, UFO-ism, conspiracy theories, the like are all related to the breakdown, nearing completion, of middle class society.

Births in Britain are more than 50% illegitimate. In the US, about 41%. You don’t build a middle class society with single mothers.

This is why our elites are so unable to deal with rising energy prices choking off economic activity, and the threat of US cities dying.

Contra Eggplant, with a dead US city (or several), the One would offer abject apologies, payments, surrender, and institute Sharia, with the Media cheering and the Military either cowed down or disbanded. What power center would challenge Obama? What force could remove him? After all, he will start funding his “Bolivar Circles,” his civilian equivalent to the military, immediately after being elected. His local officials will jail anyone who criticizes him (just like Chavez).

We are seeing the fall of the West. The graphs show it. They may be falling from their peaks, but they are still dominant enough, long enough, to show the total control exerted over every institution. As elites seek to ignore the twin threats of expensive energy and nuclear proliferation.

Sep 28, 2008 - 4:01 pm 58. whiskey:

What we can see in the coming days is an Obama landslide, signaling a huge, desperate shift from a middle-class America to a more Chavez-like Underclass + Elites alliance against the middle class.

I think we will see that. With a desperate desire to get money for nothing and chicks for free. As Obama fails to deliver, like Chavez, on each desire to get money for nothing and chicks for free, he will disband ever greater parts of the military to spend the money on … well satisfying his followers. Money for nothing. Leaving the US helpless by design to any attack.

Sep 28, 2008 - 4:05 pm 59. ridgerunner:

A society in which half the electorate prefers the candidate defined by Konyok’s *It* is perhaps an expected result of the longterm shift of advertising’s focus from the product’s functionality to the product’s hipness. This shift was only possible because of the energy subsidy provided by fossil fuels. It’s ironic that the trend’s political consequence becomes manifest at just the moment that the subsidy begins to disappear.

Sep 28, 2008 - 4:06 pm 60. trangbang68:

Ann, Your post was kind of cryptic. I assume you’re saying the sixties are over and that sort of leftism. Really its never gone anywhere and is as old as time. The mention of Robespierre and Danton and the Jacobins is a good picture of it in its essence, a rebellion against order, God and truth. Whether the French mobs or the murderous ideologues of the twentieth century, the left has always been a nihilistic destructive bunch.
I saw a video this morning of the Entebbe commando raid. The part I forgot was the Baader- Meinhof terrorists who joined with the PLO to pull it off. Watching the re-enactment of the IDF gunning them down was pleasant. Here in America it’s “guilty as hell and free as a bird” as Comrade Ayers would say.

Sep 28, 2008 - 4:11 pm 61. slade:

That is a prime reason why the debate has become more aesthetic than rational. - Konyok

Not just the debate but many subsets of western life. The release from financial pressures leads to the search for …

Excuse me for introducing Star Trek, but in Gene Roddenberry’s concept it is the search for self-improvement.

Which is more than an aesthetic, but it’s a bridge.

Sep 28, 2008 - 4:11 pm 62. Eggplant:

Wretchard said:

“There are two ways to think about the financial crisis. A one time lump moving through a python after which things will return to “normal” — socially, politically and economically. Or a Black Swan which announces that a fundamental discontinuity is beginning.”

A “Black Swan” is a large-impact, hard-to-predict and rare event beyond the realm of normal expectations.

Strictly speaking this economic crisis was not a “Black Swan” because people could see it coming (I saw it coming in September 2005). I know the rough date of my epiphany because that’s when I shifted all my investments into a pure cash position (too soon by almost two years). That’s sort of par for me. I saw the Dot Com collapse about a year before it happened (when confronted with a bubble, I tend to bail out too soon).

I foresaw this economic crisis because I saw prosperity and conspicuous consumption all around me but there was no “killer app” to justify it, e.g. there was no new Internet-Version 2.0, Nanotechnology or Biotech to support this prosperity.

A few questions to knowledgeable people revealed that this “prosperity” was an illusion due to real estate flipping and home equity loans. A statistic that I heard in mid-2005 was that 60% of the economic activity in the San Francisco Bay Area was driven by real estate flipping and home equity loans. This was proof positive that we were eating our seed corn and serious trouble was brewing.

What still surprises me is that I (a no-account aeronautical engineer, untrained in finance) could see this on the horizon but the people who get paid to deal with finance seemed oblivious to it.

Sep 28, 2008 - 4:12 pm 63. trangbang68:

Whiskey, You ought to go for a walk in the country, bro. Your pessimism is alarming.

Sep 28, 2008 - 4:14 pm 64. slade:

My money is on Jindal in LA. He is young, bold, and conservative. If Louisiana really figures it out, we could see the change spread across the country as others adopt the “Louisiana Model.” LL3

Certainly one to watch. Jindal knows how to fix the mechanics. I made this point here or somewhere else that that’s fine, but the story is (1) why is it so hard to fix mechanics - meaning why haven’t more governors done so and (2) what are the answers from the Jindal’s of the political world to foreign policy. Fixing a state health care program requires a different skill set from building a foreign policy apparatus with the dual objectives of defending this country while assisting development overseas.

Sep 28, 2008 - 4:24 pm 65. hdgreene:

Others read Reynolds as well as I do, but I note that the heinous ACORN earmark was likely the intentional insertion of a bargaining chip (big duh!! to some of us who need to brush up on our chess moves.)

Slade, I’m not so sure about that. If it was a bargaining chip, what did they get in return for removing it? They got the right not to have the Republicans club them over the head with it from now until election day.

No. I believe this provision was a promissory note to the activist base. If the Democrats win they can pass that provision next year. One thing to remember about the Left: they may back off but they don’t give up.

The Democrats want to set up an unaccountable political slush fund worth tens of billions of dollars. The fact that they brought it out in the open before the election means they can even claim a mandate (of sorts — they’ll have the help of the media) to do it after they win: Keeping great people in good homes or some such.

Republicans should campaign on returning the money to the taxpayers, saying: The Democrats will funnel these funds to their cronies. We will give it back to the American people.

Having Sen. Obama up eight among registered voters is no where near the end of the world for McCain — especially considering the week he’s had. Going much above ten might be, what’s the word? Problematic.

Sep 28, 2008 - 4:26 pm 66. Eggplant:

I agree with trangbang68 and slade: Bobby Jindal is definitely the one to watch. He’ll be a natural to do the clean up after the Messiah turns everything upside down.

Sep 28, 2008 - 4:33 pm 67. Andrew X:

I’m no authority, but my gut tells me this will all be more of the ‘python’ scenario, simply because the wealth, in the case of the houses, is still there, no matter who owns (or “owns”) it at any given time. God willing, this will be both a correction to the absurd prices in housing, and a serious spanking to banks so that they will stop sending me unasked for $10,000 checks, “just sign here”, and all the foolish thinking that results in those checks being sent.

On the Obama front, I don’t want him to win, and I am more convinced that he will. But when you talk about “martial law”, I cannot help but note how many have been saying exactly that for eight years now about our current President. Those people are…. hmmm… what’s the word I’m looking for?…. oh, yeah….. idiots.

Just worth keeping in mind.

One salutory effect of him winning is that racism will be virtually over. I’m not kidding. Millions of us will simply have ZERO tolerance for being accused of it, guilted over it, clubbed with it, or allow ANYONE to get over on us by using it as a political weapon. The only reason it has ever been a politically powerful charge is because of fear of so many of us that we have something to “prove” about it.

No more. That’s done. That ship has sailed. Obama is (assuming he wins) the President. He’ll have earned it, and he can put up with the downsides. “Chimpy Obama”? Sure. Why not?Google ‘Chimp + Bush’ and get 1.8 million hits. Good for Bush, good for Obama.

Do I need your permission to say that?

Yeah, here’s what you can do, in detail, with your permissions.

Sep 28, 2008 - 4:40 pm 68. Tony:

Indicators, flags would be the inflection point in the MSM, if they start publishing the fact that this is a global financial emergency. You don’t see that much in American media because it’s hard to blame on Bush.

If news of Japan, UK, EU, China (nobody takes Russia seriously) financial conditions starting making the headlines at the top of the NYT and WaPo and WSJ, I will take that as news that a true global financial crisis is underway that not even the obessive MSM compulsion of >>>Making Sure Obama Wins>>> can cover up.

B&B and Fortis both in crisis
Bradford & Bingley’s fate to be decided by tonight as Spanish bank Santander leads rescue talks
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/banking_and_finance/article4837674.ece

Sep 28, 2008 - 4:52 pm 69. Andrew X:

Tony - (and others)

You seem to have made a smart observation. Can you or anyone else tell me, one of the many who are out to sea here, that if these foreign banks do have these similar problems…. WHAT THE HELL IS THE CAUSE? Anyone? Bueller?

My limited knowledge explanation: that it’s pretty much all about US banks getting a Viagra hard-on to loan anything to anybody that comes down the pike, because they charge money for it and can STILL count the original loan as their own asset, as long as payments are being made. And that the US government exacerbated the problem by forcing / encouraging loans to people who should not have been loaned to, and for that reason AND others that I don’t understand, banks inherent conservatism in lending has simply been thrown over the side in a free-for-all (literally) party.

Do I have it right?

So, if these Euro-banks go down, is it BECAUSE of US banks and US consumer loans? (Our fault big-time.) Is it because they are doing the same thing with their own lenders? (Not our fault, just where Western society is on these matters.) Is it something else entirely? (????)

Or, do I continue to be at sea here, and should stick to my knitting.

Any and all help appreciated.

Sep 28, 2008 - 5:05 pm 70. Eggplant:

Andrew X said:

“But when you talk about “martial law”, I cannot help but note how many have been saying exactly that for eight years now about our current President. Those people are…. hmmm… what’s the word I’m looking for?…. oh, yeah….. idiots.”

The moonbats have been talking about martial law because they are indeed idiots. The moonbats have also been calling our President (who is an honorable man and a patriot) “Bushitler” and demanding his impeachment because he fulfilled his Presidential oath in defending this country. The Messiah is mainly a phenomena of the MSM and the moonbats. That same mentality driving the moonbats to shriek “Bushitler” will also be behind the Messiah’s political policy.

We are in serious trouble if the Messiah wins. However the United States is a very big country with considerable inertia. My hope is this inertia will limit the damage the Messiah can inflict. Where this hope falls flat is in our having potent enemies who also command considerable resources, e.g. Vladimir Putin, the Iranians, the Saudis behind al Qaeda, the Chinese, etc. It would be much better if McCain became President but the system maybe too dysfunctional to allow this.

Sep 28, 2008 - 5:08 pm 71. NahnCee:

Just because he’s elected doesn’t mean he can’t be impeached. No Presidency is permanent if the incumbent screws up too much too often.

///

Please, Slade - no more with the Africa sympathy. I have Africa fatigue in that the West has been giving them money and food for decades now, and they *still* haven’t figured out how to feed themselves or how to avoid catching AIDS. If they want to break their backs working for the Chinese, at least it’s work and they’re getting paid. I’m not willing to intervene there any more for any reason until they show some signs of self-sufficiency like we see in Poland or Iraq. Let’s go help the Aborigines for a while instead.

Sep 28, 2008 - 5:27 pm 72. slade:

I’m thinking about it NahnCee. I’m an amateur as I said. I also think personally that there’s a lot to be said for your side of the equation. Money has been poured into Africa. I used to feel that way myself. However, based on the economics of lost opportunity cost, it would seem prudent for this country to develop a ‘more effective’ policy of monetary and humanitarian aid, which requires thought and effort (such as the MIT program to provide technological solutions specific to the needs of individual communities). The situation itself defies any defense of the inability of the locals to provide solutions. Some issues demand a bigger focus.

Sep 28, 2008 - 5:44 pm 73. Leo Linbeck III:

slade,

Great point on the plumbing. This can be used in both a literal and figurative sense. I once had a prof who said that the quickest way to shut down an organization was to turn off the plumbing. No water, no sewer, no organization.

Problem is that our society doesn’t respect plumbers any more, or anyone who works with their hands. I’ve had very wealthy people moan about the $1,500 bill they got from the guy who came to their house on a Sunday night to fix their broken commode, and in the next breath you hear about the condo they flipped for a cool million.

Beside, no one finds plumbing worth writing magazine articles about. They’d rather fawn over the pornographic escapades of the rich and famous.

Money for nuthin’, and chicks for free.

L3

Sep 28, 2008 - 5:48 pm 74. Andrew X:

Nahn -

Just go into your mind for a minute, and picture the impeachment of Barack Obama. Doesn’t matter if he is found with a freezer full of body parts…. imagine the process. You are talking about a political bloodbath of unimaginable proportions. I get sick even thinking about it. Oh, and that “racism” demon that I mentioned above that will have been purged…… “I’m back, baby, and ready to rumble, big time!!!”

Forget impeachment, and I don’t even care why. If Obama wins, he’s in for four, and that is that. (I think impeaching Clinton was a bad idea, part of the reason for the almost unimaginable bitterness of today’s politics, and I DO NOT intend to defend or discusss that premise any further here, if ever again.)

I happen to predict that Barry will be quite beatable four years from now, and the “racist America” meme will remain just as dead. So let’s let that happen.

And hey, McCain can still win! A month is a lifetime in this business. Let’s keep that in mind.

Sep 28, 2008 - 5:50 pm 75. Eggplant:

NahnCee said:

“Just because he’s elected doesn’t mean he can’t be impeached.”

The US Constitution specifies offenses that are impeachable:

Article II, Section 4

The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.

The point here is that a civil officer can not be impeached simply because people disagree with his/her policies, i.e.

“Impeachment” is not the same as “recall”.

Bill Clinton was impeached because he committed the felony of perjury before a grand jury. Andrew Johnson was unjustly impeached because he violated the Tenure of Office Act.

An honest politician such as the Governor of California can be recalled from office because the voters have a quarrel with his/her policies. However there is no legal mechanism for “recall” of a US government civil officer.

Sep 28, 2008 - 5:53 pm 76. hdgreene:

I was traveling in Europe in the early 1970’s when the US dollar was changing value almost daily (in the wrong direction, from my point of view). There was talk of ending the dollar as a “reserve currency” for foreign central banks. The US was about to lose most of its “integrated steel” industry (making steel from iron ore and coking coal). The Europeans heavily subsidized their steel industry and “dumped” in the US. US inflation was on the rise, which helped spike the first “oil crisis.” Their were race riots in US cities, a string of assassinations, and explosion of crime and Cleveland went belly up while Mayor Kucinch was at the helm. NYC nearly followed. Trade wars threatened.

And of course we lost the real war in Vietnam.

Adam Smith said there is a lot of ruin in a nation. I wondered what that meant. I always figured it was like, you know, plans ruined, fortunes ruined, businesses ruined but somehow it holds together, at least better than you would expect.

In the early 70’s, when people feared a collapse, I remember another “Adam Smith” was asked what will happen and he said, “Someone will think of something.” And Someone did. I think it was money market funds, mortgage backed securities and junk bonds.

If we let markets work, who knows? Someone might think of something else.

Sep 28, 2008 - 6:17 pm 77. Charles:

imho this is an inflection point but it has to do with how capital is deployed.

bernake was hired to be the fed chairman precisely because of his critique of the fed’s handling of the 1929 stock market crash.

My understanding is that — that crash and the crunch of the following years came precisely because of the kind of credit crunch which congress is now working hard to avoid. The fed at that time thought it best for the markets to work things out–ie no federal intervention.

Four years later in 1932 — federal intervention came. But many say that the US didn’t fully recover until WWII when government spending outstripped everything that was done in the 30’s.

The work of the last week has been done so as to concentrate the the federal work of 15 years into 15 days and avoid the 15 year zag that followed 1929. A stitch in time saves nine.

How will capital be redeployed? I don’t know. All the capital deployed in the last 10 years in the west has been used to inflate real estate. In the east it has been used to build immense cities. The landscape of the world has been considerably redrawn in the last ten years.

How about the next 10 years? It would be be best if capital in the west was used to do stuff like reinvent our energy & water infrastructure so as to create the preconditions for a successful 21st century,.

But to do so people have to believe that there is a future in the west. The end of an ideological framework does correspond to the end of an age. People confuse this with the end of time and howl. The dogs bark and the caravan moves on.

Sep 28, 2008 - 6:20 pm 78. MRfernandez:

1. Jesus was a radical, revolutionary with “tired worn out ideas.”
2. Racism in America is a product of Capitalism.
3. People who are mean spirited, suffer from low self esteem, are angry and jealous of others and lack sef-worth are ususally prejudiced and racist.
4. All of this rhetoric is composed of self serving persons who feel they are not part of the mainstream.
5.So therefore “racism” cannot go away, it is the last bastion used against Blacks in America as they push forward despite incredible tricks,used against them yet they overcome. I look at it this way, no one who is on this blog is a millionaire including me. So I won’t stay long, because I don’t like to hang with losers, no matter what color , gender or “race” they appear to be. Sayonara. Obama-Biden 08

Sep 28, 2008 - 6:30 pm 79. Benj:

K - Doubt it’s true that Obama is what the Eurps would call a Man of Left, though he’s certainly not on the Right. I think it’s telling that the term “ideologue” comes out of his mouth pretty easily. And it’s not a praise-word, but a sign that O shouldn’t be confused with tenured radicals…

As I’ve argued here before, O is basically a “liberal” in the old sense (though not the 19th cent sense) of that word. Everyhting about his negative capability - readiness to “see around” issues etc. - distances him from dogmatists (of any stripe). Folks here take his liberal-mindedness as a cover story for an incipient totalitarism - but I think it’s his core…I think that David Brooks piece which noted how consistent O’s pitch has been since his law school day was right on time. I don’t think it’s “racist” - to use your term - to insist O is really a socialist. But I don’t think it corresponds to his public record. I can assure you that the socialists I know (and respect) are (all too) clear hat Obama is not on their team. Take the Afro-Am sociologist Adolph Reed - whom I think Hitchens once called the smartest man in America. Reed has been trying with a couple dozen old union guys to organize a American Labor Party since the mid-90. He has never had any use for O. Been dissing him as a neo-liberal since the mid-90s. Or take a younger guy like Scott McLemee (writes a column for Inside Higher Ed though he’s a genuine intellectual who has (I believe) no degrees). McLemee calls himself (when pushed) a socialist. But he has NO illusions Obama is one…What the hey - maybe it’s worth considering hat the sharpest American socialists see nothing of their own politics in O’s.

I respect their skepticism. But I don’t share it because I’ve got somewhat more faith than them in the once-moribund “aesthetic” to use your term (again) of liberalism. Family t’ing.

Sep 28, 2008 - 6:34 pm 80. Charles:

The elephant bar has a good video of a dialogue between bernake and ron paul which pretty much captures the spirit of the 1929 vs today discussion.

Sep 28, 2008 - 6:45 pm 81. Andrew X:

“Racism in America is a product of Capitalism”

Just out of curiosity, what is racism in… China, Russia, Cuba, Venezuela, Africa, the former Soviet Empire, and for that matter, Japan, Canada, Europe, Asia, the former British Empire, the former Bzyantine Empire, the former Ottoman Embpire, the former Roman Empire, and, while we’re at it, among the Krogoth Clan of the Neandertals… caused by.

Oh, yeah. Capitalism. Cool. Thanks.

Sep 28, 2008 - 6:54 pm 82. MarkJ:

MRfernandez,

Thanks for the observations, but all of them are verifiably wrong.

1. Your description of Jesus as a “revolutionary” is based more on your own projection than on documented historical fact. Don’t take my word for it: do some reading on your own.

2. If racism is supposedly a “product of capitalism,” how do you account for rampant racism and suppression of ethnic minorities in, oh say, the Soviet Union (and Russia) and China? Does “Tibet” or “Chechnya” have any meaning to you?

3. Huh? You must be chained up in a basement someplace because precisely these kinds of people dominate discourse on the left. Don’t believe me? Here’s a homework assignment: simply troll around as a “Republican” on the DU or Kos websites and you’ll get an education.

4. Ummm, okay…..

5. And those “incredible tricks” are…? Have all blacks been hyp-no-tized by the Blue-Eyed Devils? If so, why is Obama even running for President instead of picking cotton in Arkansas? And, hey, how do you know there aren’t any millionaires on this blog (self-admission: I’m not a millionaire…but Sarah Palin makes me FEEL like one!).

My unsolicited, but cordial, suggestion, “MR,” is to seek professional help for all those anger and “low self esteem” issues you have. Just flip open the Yellow Pages: you’ll be glad you did.

Sep 28, 2008 - 6:56 pm 83. Fresh Bilge » Palin as Populist:

[...] understand the issues yet. Through fate or providence, one person can break the deadlock — and the dying ideas of Marxism that undergird the Obama candidacy — Sarah Palin. Posted at 9:56 PM | [...]

Sep 28, 2008 - 6:58 pm 84. RHW:

I’m with Whiskey on his Chavez comparisons. I worked in Venezuela prior to and during Chavez’s early years. The parallels are absolutely uncanny.

Chavez and his MVR party rode in to office on a wave of voter discontent that included disillusionment due to government corruption and banking failures that was killing the middle class.

Finding himself and his cronies now elected and in the majority, Chavez moved quickly to implement the salami theory of socialism: rewrite the constitution; set up Bolivarian Circles; pack the Supreme Court; pull the licenses of critical television stations; nationalize key industries (including banking), and so on.

Maybe the script has been writ, tested and refined…, nah.

Sep 28, 2008 - 7:00 pm 85. Leo Linbeck III:

MRfernandez,

You’re wrong about the millionaire bit. The rest is not deserving of a response. Thanks for stopping by.

L3

Sep 28, 2008 - 7:18 pm 86. SamIam:

I’m getting very depressed at where the polls seem to be going. It seems like a majority of the public is either ignorant of, or supportive of the consequences of America lurching leftward.

Nothing lasts forver and that includes America. I had hoped we could do at least 1/3 as Rome did though. Alas, Frankfurt School methods seem to have been much more effective than the trials and tribulations they faced.

Sep 28, 2008 - 7:21 pm 87. MarkJ:

RHW,

Interesting, and perhaps even plausible, theory, but I don’t believe it’s applicable to the United States. Venezuela has a very different history, for example, in that the military establishment has meddled in national political affairs (up to and including military coups) in ways still unthinkable here in this country.

Furthermore, a majority of Americans revere the Constitution to the point where any attempt to rewrite or gut it would provoke a serious legal, dare I say violent, backlash. Obama successfully calling for a constitutional convention or ramming through additional amendments (e.g., eliminating the Second Amendment)? Not bloody likely. Even many on the left (including the “usual suspects” on SCOTUS) would serious problems with such moves since they’d open up a pandora’s box. Further, the fact that tens of millions of Americans are armed, and already suspicious of Washington, is also a check on potential Chavista-style moves for a lot of obvious reasons.

Here’s the best part: I’ve got a sawbuck that says once the MSM belatedly realizes “President Obama” is not The Messiah but, rather, just another sweet-talking pol, it will likely turn on him too when it finally realizes it’s been “had.”

Sep 28, 2008 - 7:24 pm 88. Konyok:

I retract my trip wire submission.

What seems to me the most reliable indication that the Black Swan is ascendent and we will not return to “normal” would be a major recount crisis lasting for weeks.

Sep 28, 2008 - 7:51 pm 89. SamIam:

One more note,

I’ve thought for a long time now that the Left has been counting on the ultimate failure and unsustainability of medicair/medicaide and social security. They have deliberately modified these programs over the years in a way that makes it inevitable and blocked any attempts that would prevent it from happening. This is their ultimate fallback. Forcing the harsh choice between nationalization and pretty much unacceptable hard times and adaptation to a new paradigm that a pampered public could not possibly accept.

Now I see that they did the same thing with housing and Freddie/Fannie. In an ideologically based push to make irresponsible lending profitable, they put full US Government guarantees behind the banks making the loans while simultaneously pressuring them to do even more. But I think the house of cards came down sooner than anticipated despite the favorable politics they are enjoying from it so close to an election. The financial companies magnified the problem by over leveraging and betting with new kinds of instruments that enriched many but was too sensitive to a downturn.

Anyway, I know I can’t hold a candle to many of the minds on this blog but that’s what I’ve been thinking the left has been up to with the massive programs–pre-planned failure. If others have talked about this before I’m sorry I missed it.

Sep 28, 2008 - 7:51 pm 90. Insufficiently Sensitive:

My limited knowledge explanation: that it’s pretty much all about US banks getting a Viagra hard-on to loan anything to anybody that comes down the pike, because they charge money for it and can STILL count the original loan as their own asset, as long as payments are being made.

Expand, if you will, said limited knowledge to include the massive metastasis of the Community Reinvestment Act put over by the Clinton gang in 1995. It was a ploy to fund ‘affordable housing’ (read, housing subsidized by evil capitalist banks) by setting a quota for banks to lend big money to borrowers, regardless of their ability to pay. Federal penalties were included to punish those banks which continued to refuse loans to big-risk customers.

That, and its logical developments such as ’securitization’ and ‘pick-a-payment’, was the direct cause of this disaster.

Sep 28, 2008 - 7:55 pm 91. Konyok:

@Benj

I have to disagree with you. Senator Obama’s bitter clinging comment, with its implication of false consciousness, would have been unthinkable for a traditional liberal to utter. (Granted, it was “off the record,” but it truly seemed an expression of his real feelings.)
Remember, this was in the context of a Democratic Party primary campaign in reference to the core Democratic constituency: working class whites.
Senator Obama certainly hasn’t followed the path of a traditional socialist, either. However, it is not implausible to suspect that his coy rhetoric is Taqqiya.
Regardless, his campaign has not been about issues, but aesthetics. Who gets *it?*

Sep 28, 2008 - 8:03 pm 92. Eggplant:

MarkJ said:

“I’ve got a sawbuck that says once the MSM belatedly realizes “President Obama” is not The Messiah but, rather, just another sweet-talking pol, it will likely turn on him too when it finally realizes it’s been “had.””

No way. The MSM knows who and what the Messiah is all about. The MSM create the narrative (there is no “realizing” possible because the MSM helped in writing the lie). In suporting the Messiah, the MSM has bet the family farm. Turning back is not an option.

Sep 28, 2008 - 8:09 pm 93. Sam_S:

Very late on this thread; sorry. Before I got too encouraged about the (rather encouraging) word-frequency graphs, I’d also want to see which terms are in the middle of a sharp uptrend. I doubt “individual liberty” is one of them.

Secondly, it could be true that this is the last gasp of the New Left: please note that the environmental alarmists have already played their ultimate card, “the end of the world”, and hardly anyone is buying it!

Sep 28, 2008 - 8:14 pm 94. MaggieTheCat:

Hey Leo.

I knew MRfernandez was wrong about the millionaire bit (among others). I’m from Houston. I’m just a nobody mom, but I’m a half-a-millionaire, just from 9 to 5 working in the secretarial trenches and investing in stock market mutual funds along the way. I’ll betcha there are other millionaires blogging on this wonderful website. MRfernandez must really be poor.

MTC

Sep 28, 2008 - 8:51 pm 95. Joshua:

Eggplant: In suporting the Messiah, the MSM has bet the family farm.

Perhaps an even better analogy for the MSM, and the Left in general, is a poker tournament. They figured they couldn’t lose with Obama, so they pushed all-in, only to be called by the Right and find themselves up against McCain and Sarah Palin, like King-Jack running into pocket Aces. Alas, as happens all the time in poker, Obama got the equivalent of a lucky flop (the Wall Street mess) and is now the big favorite despite being consistently outplayed by McCain up to that point. But Obama still doesn’t quite have “the nuts”, and there are still two more cards to be drawn.

Sep 28, 2008 - 8:56 pm 96. Eggplant:

Joshua said:

“Alas, as happens all the time in poker, Obama got the equivalent of a lucky flop (the Wall Street mess) and is now the big favorite despite being consistently outplayed by McCain up to that point. But Obama still doesn’t quite have “the nuts”, and there are still two more cards to be drawn.”

I agree with Joshua, all is not yet lost. McCain might still have an ace or two up his sleeve. William Kristol wrote an excellent op-ed piece in the the New York Times (of all places) that spells out how McCain could still win this thing. Refer to:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/29/opinion/29kristol.html

McCain needs to follow Kristol’s advice.

Sep 28, 2008 - 9:05 pm 97. Benj:

@ K. - Take the “bitter clinging” comment and rub it up against O’s “explanation” of white working class people’s resentement of affirmative action and crime in the innner city in his race speech. (Given what I know about the rise of unmeltable ethnics in American cities - O probalby gave the urban white w.c. more than they deserved on that front.) And that’s not just him sucking up to a constituency he needs. O has seen people in Cicero ILL (which MLK once called as the most racist place he’d EVER marched in) respond (relatively) warmly to him. He knows America is not static (to use his word).

As for the campaign not being about issues - I’d say it’s FIRST about process. O’s big organizing achievement was to put together a money machine that freed him from obligations to ANY one constituency - single issuers, Biz lobbies, Kossites, W.E. Sure O has heavy money-men and women in his circle. ANd didn’t like it when FJim Johnson was his vetter-in-chief. But, damn, Rick DAvis is RUNNING Mac’s campaign…

EVerything is now shadowed by the financial crisis. And who knows where this is going but, knowing he had a shot a dem majority, O was aiming to follow through on a set of policies - healthcare, infrastructure, energy, higher ed, a culture of service - that would pour the foundation for an alternative to the pub’s you’re-on-your ownership society…

BTW - It’s definitely true is that O lacks the populist instincts of, say, Brian S. - that gov in Montana. O’s experience of up-from-under politics has had race-based tinge right from the start - His heroes are the early Civil Rights guys and King. He’s willed himself into being someone who thinks broad. But his communitarianism isn’t about Marxism - O has NEVER worked on an assembly line. Doesn’t know from the inside the experience of a speed-up - What it means to “struggle” over the time of your working life. What he DOES know something about (at a felt level) is the desire for individual autonomy. That is, the middle class Idea. And it runs in the fam - Not just grand parents - Think of him mom spendng years of her life working on micro-credit schemes to help THird World market women develop small buisnesses. That is probably a Leftish idea. (Least I hope it is.) But it sure as hell isn’t a Marxist one - or a staple of statist, social democracies.

On that score - and under the current circumstance - I wish O could come up with as good an idea as the populists’ “subtreasury”
scheme. Maybe he will!

One final point re the Narrative - Just saw that Rich Lowery - National Review stalwart -has bought out on Palin. Do you think all these conservative heads are just falling under the undue influence of the MSM or are they seeing what’s in front of their nose….

Sep 28, 2008 - 9:17 pm 98. fred:

Every one of the people in my circle of associations - family, friends, acquaintances, co-workers - who is into redistributionist economics and Obamamania is economically illiterate and devoid of an understanding of how finance works. Every one. Most are atheists, and yet they seem to believe in all sorts of alchemy and New Age crap. A couple seek my advice on financial matters and investing. I don’t do financial planning, but I do investment research for a small boutique. My job is to look under the hood, crunch the numbers, and prepare reports for the portfolio managers. So those individuals who do seek my advice I try to tell them that I will not recommend an investment for them unless they are willing to be educated about it and THE WHY of it. It never fails, folks, that these uber liberals/Leftists will just not get it. Their eyes will glaze over and I can tell that mentally they’ve hit the snooze button. My wife tells me that I do explain things very well and in great detail. Currently, these individuals shriek about “Reagan’s de-regulation of markets” as being the cause of the current financial crisis. They rail against the rich (but do want to earn the returns the rich make)and they are full of intellectual sloth. When I talk with them they clearly believe in zero-sum economic logic. One is a college graduate who majored in chemistry. The other went to tech school for computers. They aren’t stupid, but they are not humble, are stubborn, and are very materialistic, envious people. They won’t let me explain the nuts and bolts of how the sub-prime mortgage market ended up being in the shape it’s in.

I know other Leftists too, who are clueless about classical economics. They don’t understand how high taxes on capital and income affects entrepreneurship, risk-taking, and job growth. It goes right by them. I’m frustrated by all of this, and I try to explain how years ago I once subscribed to revisionist Marxist thinking and how I came to discover how I was wrong about it all. But no one wants to hear a rational explanation of these things. They think my intellectual journey and my professional development have just changed me from a socialist to a capitalist pig dog - unaware that I had left Marxist thinking several years before I even broke into the investment business. I would think the way I do even if I made half of what I earn now.

In my undergraduate days, even though I was a Leftist, I was a restless, bookish soul who was always curious. Always searching. Examining ideas. Ditto for my seminary years. The same for my MBA studies’ years. I see the mind as a journey and not a static thing.

I don’t see a lot of that same spirit going on among the college students today. I don’t see that same spirit of exploration of ideas among a lot of adults. What I see is people hardening into positions on issues that beg for greater respect and contemplation.

I believe intellectual sloth is one of the major sins of our age.

Sep 28, 2008 - 9:18 pm 99. Mad Fiddler:

Try to imagine the desperation of a Punch Sulzberger, having to direct his people every six weeks to draft another list of NYT staff to be told to pack their things and leave the building. Severance packages must be getting a little bit threadbare. During the 1990’s a number of us in Silicon Valley lived through that experience as the so-called “dot-com bubble” stretched to its limit and popped ignominiously. Working at a well-known American arcade game manufacturer, I managed to keep my enthusiasm going despite FIVE “reductions-in-force” in three years. When my project’s producer told us the only way to compete with the other more successful game companies was for us to have our characters do some unprecedented horrifying self-mutilation for their “victory” moves, I knew it was time to decamp.

Thinking a move to a Children’s Educational software group would likely land me in a more wholesome environment, I took an offer from the company which was at the time the leader of that small niche of the software industry. The week I started, it was announced that the company had been purchased in a leveraged buyout, and the new owners proceeded to gobble & gut the entire population of mid-sized Children’s Software manufacturers, laying off the most experienced (and highest-paid) employees, then replacing them with kids right out of college. Mattel almost went mammaries skyward after purchasing the resulting “shell” a few years later.

My point is that the experience made me think about the motivations of the executives, and made me conclude that many of the decisions are made with the same panicky, irrational and pheromone-crazed impulses as we low-lives suffer. Regardless of their advanced degrees from the Harvard School of Government or Wharton.

I’ve seen companies with yearly revenues of several hundred million dollars torn apart in petty adolescent turf battles by the New York Executives of the Parent company.

I am no longer surprised at the enormities of the Clintons, Reid, Pelosi, MoveOn.org, Soros, The Shining One, His Wizards, nor any of the others in the Democratic Party. They are just a bunch of idiots like the rest of us. Not transcendant geniuses of the Age.

Sep 28, 2008 - 9:19 pm 100. Mad Fiddler:

Fred, I salute your latest post; you seem to have put your finger on the problem. I would only add that it is one of attitude rather than education or credentials.

It didn’t take a genius to watch the hyperbole of the commercials flogging pointless, redundant, and idiotic internet enterprises in the 1990’s and grasp that the brazen crass claims were from idiots sprinting toward a precipice.

“Trust but Verify” = “Maintain decorum and civility, so long as it doesn’t mean drinking the poison.”

One interpretation.

Sep 28, 2008 - 9:44 pm 101. fred:

Mad Fiddler,

I even try to bring up history to help people understand why the current fever over redistributionist economics is a craven mistake. I try to tell these kids and even older people what the 1970’s were like: why there was very little investment and job growth, and what it led to; that the high unemployment and stagflation of the era had causes. The very things that now are in vogue among the Democrats and their useful idiots were causes of the economic and foreign policy crises of that period.

Hardly anyone learns from history anymore. At least not the right lessons.

Sloth is one of the seven deadly sins. We seem to have an overabundance of it in our times. Pride often attends sloth and they feed into each other.

Sep 28, 2008 - 9:59 pm 102. bobal:

1. Jesus was a radical, revolutionary with “tired worn out ideas.”

Jesus lived off the women, gave the money bag to Judas to carry, threw out challenging and wildly implausible and impractical ideas, told Peter to put the sword down and, thank God, wasn’t an economist.

Sep 28, 2008 - 10:01 pm 103. mark_b:

Jesus is a socialist.

Sep 28, 2008 - 10:11 pm 104. NahnCee:

Hey, at least in MRfernandez, one of the Obamaron trolls from yesterday ventured into a thread about economics and not whether or not B Hussein won.

I would love to know who draws up the list of blogs to be hit on, which trolls it’s distributed to (KosKidz, any one?), and what the agreed-upon meme’s are.

Wretchard, you should compare notes with other Pajama’s types to see if they had a similar avalanche of intruders spouting the same words about the same time.

Although it remains a mystery why on earth anyone any where would embrace this as a tactic that would make a difference. Maybe it’s just a ploy to keep said trolls involved and feeling important.

Sep 28, 2008 - 10:19 pm 105. mark_b:

There weren’t that many trolls here. The tread in question was titled “Who won the debate?” and mentioned JSM and BHO withing the first two sentences.

My guess someone set google to search pj.com for debate obama and ended up here wearing their turf shoes.

Sep 28, 2008 - 10:24 pm 106. fred:

I’ve often wondered why the Left has encouraged and continued to prod its members to function as trolls inside of discussion boards like this one (and others that are not dominated by the KOSkids, MoveOn.org, Huffington, and Salon, etc.?

What are they trying to accomplish? I have yet to see evidence that they succeed at winning any converts.

Sep 28, 2008 - 10:32 pm 107. Alexis:

Mad Fiddler:

Whenever someone is too desperate in desiring a particular political outcome, I immediately become suspicious. My political instinct is to oppose whatever it is that person wants, not because I even know why but rather because I know desperation is not a good sign.

Although I have done my research, part of my political opposition against the Obama campaign derives from the sheer desperation and fanaticism among many of his supporters; their behavior alone leaves me thinking there’s something wrong even before I find out any more information.

The recent arrivals since Friday evening from the Obama campaign have used a variety of rhetoric on this forum that has historically been a precursor to war. I would like to think they don’t know what they are talking about, yet their venomous enthusiasm leaves me wondering if there’s a method to their madness.

It appears to be a recent fashion in the past year to use the word “bigot” to denote a meaning that doesn’t correspond to any meaning found in the dictionary, for among many Obama supporters, the word “bigot” seems to refer to any and all persons who oppose the presidential bid of Barack Obama. This, combined with their occasionally expressed desire for exterminating all “bigots”, creates the impression that the word “bigot” is a code word for future witch hunts against dissenters.

This doesn’t look good.

Sep 28, 2008 - 10:34 pm 108. Alexis:

Fred:

No kidding. Let’s say that Senator Obama actually wins. These remarks make it nearly impossible for Barack Obama to have a functioning governing majority in Washington. Whether he likes it or not, Barack Obama will be held responsible for the behavior of his supporters.

I think opinion at the Belmont Club has polarized since the deluge of intemperate remarks from Obama supporters since last Friday. Was that their intent? Does the Obama campaign actively seek to inflame opinion against Obama on purpose? I think this may be intentional; perhaps somebody is trying to provoke a stupid remark.

Sep 28, 2008 - 10:46 pm 109. bobal:

I scratch my head and wonder, how could Jesus have been a socialist, a concept that didn’t arise until the coming of capitalism and industrialization?

Sep 28, 2008 - 10:47 pm 110. Mad Fiddler:

Sadly, the ploy of those tossing about the “bigot” accusation is absolutely consistent with the modern Leftist/Liberal hypothesis.

(Sometimes I succumb to cynicism and call it “The Shiny Thing Hypothesis…”)

See if this sounds familiar:

1) Liberalism (as it is presented by the Left) is a political philosophy characterized by the desire to make life better for all people, generally.
2) If you mean well and want good things for all people, you will naturally desire to join other Liberals in their party.
3) If you don’t want to join with and support the party of Liberal people, then you are a bad person.

Corollary 01: Since Liberals mean well and want good things for all people, any thing they do must be seen as an expression of that urge, therefor anything that a Liberal does must be assumed to be a GOOD thing.

Corollary 02: People who are opposed to Liberals are bad people, since they have chosen to oppose people who want good things for all people; therefor anything done by a person who is NOT a Liberal is a BAD thing.

(You can do an internet search on “Shiny Thing Hypothesis”)

Sep 28, 2008 - 10:58 pm 111. Alexis:

bobal:

I thought Matthew 20:1-16 was a reference to marginal utility, a concept rediscovered nineteen centuries later by the Austrian School of Economics.

Sep 28, 2008 - 11:12 pm 112. OldSalt:

I was going to respond to CF’s screed regarding “Reaganism’s more horrific ideas”, but what’s the point. History (on this forum) has proven that no fact or truth will shake his absolute faith in leftist ideas. So be it.

But for the normal folks on this forum, I posit:

a) Conservative economic and social ideas have succeeded every time they’ve been tried, WITHOUT compromise.

b) The problem is, the conservative “contract with America” ideas of the GOP were never fully implemented. It was the House that proposed those ideas. It was the permanent-minority GOP “RINO” Senators that killed every last one.

c) The “big government” of GWB along with the RINO-”earmarking”-hypocrite GOP congress is the only reason why the leftist Democrats command half of America’s votes have had any success. The oft said adage that when given a choice between a “tax and spend liberal” and a “tax and spend Republican”, people who lean that way will pick the real thing every time.

The left will be a powerful presence in American politics as long as the GOP fails to provide a credible, consistent, CONSERVATIVE alternative. And, the GOP utterly failed at promoting conservative ideas, because a good number of the senior GOP Senators who controlled 1/2 of Congress never believed in those ideas. The same guys who frustrated Reagan when I was 30 years old are doing the same thing 25 years later. Corrupt GOP Congressional politicians failed at governing. GWB failed to implement conservative economic policies; I just think that, as nice as the Bush family is in general (including both presidents), they are just regular RINO’s on economic, tax, and spending policies. They believe the government exists to serve the people, but they define “serve” as government sponsored programs to redistribute wealth.

Sep 28, 2008 - 11:17 pm 113. Alexis:

Mad Fiddler:

Is that anything like the shiny thing from this particular URL…?

Sep 28, 2008 - 11:20 pm 114. mark_b:

“The Jesus is a socialist” line is a reference to the government on earth after Jesus’s return. I use it as a way to engage liberals in a discussion, and then move on to how man screws everything up due to there being evil in the world.

I was also trying to raise a rebuke from Teresita. We haven’t heard from her in a while and I was just trying to make her feel wanted.

Sep 28, 2008 - 11:42 pm 115. Leo Linbeck III:

MTC,

Good to meet you.

It will be a proud moment in a few years when you can add your name to the list of millionaires next door. Keep rockin’!

L3

Sep 29, 2008 - 12:46 am 116. bobal:

Economics Luke 12: 22-31

22: Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat; neither for the body, what ye shall put on.

23: The life is more than the meat, and the body is more than the raiment.

24: Consider the ravens; for they neither sow nor reap; which neither have storehouse nor barn; and God feedeth them; how much more are ye better than the fowls?

25: And which of you with taking thought can add to his stature one cubit?

26: If you then be not able to do that thing which is least, why take ye thought for the rest?

27: Consider the lilies, how they grow; they toil not, they spin not; and yet I say unto you, that Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.

28: If then God so clothe the grass, which is today in the field, and tomorrow is cast into the oven; how much more will he clothe you? O ye of little faith?

29: And seek not ye what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink, neither be ye of doubtful mind.

30: For all these things do the nations of the world seek after; and your Father in heaven knoweth that ye have need of these things.

31: But rather seek ye the kingdom of God; and all these things shall added unto you.

But then it may not be an economics lesson after all.

Sep 29, 2008 - 1:31 am 117. lc:

wretchard - interesting thesis (inflection point)

my $.02 worth (probably an inflated value)
some indicators short term (maybe)
1. Banks/financial institutions outside US start to fail, need bailout (this is cheating a bit as a bank in Belgium has just been bailed out)
2. A run on banks (unlikely)
3. Collapse of support for one of the presidential candidates
4. I heard somewhere that China has refused to loan the US more money; this is true and becomes more widespread
5. Bailout plan makes things worse (I don’t know how this would be manifested, but I think it would be clear if it did occur - that is, we’ll know it when we see it)

some longer term

1. Crisis in the energy sector (needing bailout/nationalization, of course)
2. Ukraine is invaded
3. Who knows….something seemingly insignificant turns out to be VERY important.

I bet Osama bin Laden is laughing is sorry a** off in his little rat-hole thinking he as caused this.

Sep 29, 2008 - 4:33 am 118. Tony:

Bobal,

I think that is Buddhism Luke, not Economics Luke.

Sep 29, 2008 - 5:50 am 119. Mark:

Fred writes:

“I’ve often wondered why the Left has encouraged and continued to prod its members to function as trolls inside of discussion boards like this one (and others that are not dominated by the KOSkids, MoveOn.org, Huffington, and Salon, etc.?

What are they trying to accomplish? I have yet to see evidence that they succeed at winning any converts.”

It’s to introduce noise and static into the information loop, thereby inducing additional static and stress on the information system. It works. Note the attention given to the intruders. “Get in their face” is a tactic with some value.

Sep 29, 2008 - 6:07 am 120. Stones Cry Out - If they keep silent… » Things Heard: e35v1:

[...] Mr Obama as more out of date than Mr McCain. [...]

Sep 29, 2008 - 6:41 am 121. Tony:

Mark,

It only works if we forget the Cardinal Rule:

Arguing with liberals is like playing football against girls. Just don’t do it.

Sep 29, 2008 - 7:00 am 122. Paul:

I second Old Salt.

Since Reagan, the last four Republican Presidential nominees have not been great defenders of liberty. They have been conformists, not individualists like Reagan. Get along kind of guys, who feared confrontation with the leftists. People generally not inclined towards creative ideas. GWB is probably is best of the bunch, a man when forced might once in a while embrace a new idea. With the exception of Newt and a few others, most Republican leaders since Reagan have capitulated to the leftists rather than confront them. Conservative ideas have not been exhausted; they have been abandoned by too many Republicans too fearful of ridicule from the fashionable left.

Throughout history, the vast majority of governments and cultures have been authoritarian, fearful and frightened of individualism and liberty. The old Japanese proverb ” the nail that sticks out needs to be pounded down” has held sway. Ideas, particularly new ideas, frighten the craven conformist. People need to be controlled or otherwise their Ideas might upset the apple cart of the established fashionable hegemony.

America has been the exception in history. The bright shining light of liberty and individual freedom. America’s belief in the individual’s right and ability to think in new ways and directions is the driving force behind all our freedoms, prosperity and strength.

What scares me the most about the left in this country is their desire to limit the individual; to discourage new ideas and to restrict thinking to within the constricted lines of fashionable, politically correct thought. They want to shut down debate. They need to control your every thought and behavior lest you wander off the plantation of liberalism. They think they have finally gained control over the important levers of society like the media, entertainment, government, fashion and Academie and don’t want these wild eyed conservatives messing with their idea of what the established order should be. I think the rage and fury of many a leftist to conservative ideas is the age old reaction of the authoritarian control freak who thinks he is in control, to the libertine who threatens his control.

Sep 29, 2008 - 7:52 am 123. Konyok:

@Benj,

We are being asked to elect Senator Obama, not his mom …

I don’t think that he is an old time socialist - always squabbling about fine points of the doctrine.
But, I do think that he is probably a zen socialist - he strives for the aesthetic of “fairness.” (His chief claim to moral stature is that he chose community organizing over membership in a Wall Street law firm. Of course, it is now becoming apparent that much of his community organizing was strongarming banks into loaning to unqualified borrowers … )
I say “probably” because Obama has been so opaque about his political philosophy that it is difficult to place him in any political taxonomy. (This also leads to my suspicion of Taqqiya … ) His unclassifiability might be due to: a) an inadequacy of our understanding of political thought systems, b) he is an outlier, either through naivite or paradigm busting genius, or c) he is engaged in deliberate deception. (In my observations of history, rising politicians that are “unclassifiable” generally turn out badly: Huey Long, Adolf Hitler, Hugo Chavez. Obama may prove an exception, but I’m not encouraged.) Being cynical, I tend towards “c.”

As to Lowry and Palin, it’s just not worth a point by point gotcha game. I think that Sarah Palin is a good person and smarter than you give her credit for.

Sep 29, 2008 - 8:14 am 124. Konyok:

@Paul,

The truly horrifying thing about the unanimity on the left is that they all fancy themselves the incarnation of individualism. Each “speaking truth to power” from the commanding heights to a rearguard of traditionalism.
*It* is not a political agenda, but an aesthetic attitude.

Sep 29, 2008 - 8:20 am 125. slade:

” the nail that sticks out needs to be pounded down”

Hold the presses on that theme. I used to preach from this hill a lot until I got tired of the sound of my own voice. Anyone remember the corporate “management revolution” of the 1970’s and 1980’s when all of this country fell on board with Team Building jumping jacks in the morning, Outward Bound on the weekends, and sing-alongs. I’m told WalMart’s still on that ship. Remember the complicity at the top of Enron that astonishingly extended to include the accounting firm of Arthur Anderson (RIP).

An old boss of about seven years ago seemed to suggest a modern (rebuttal) view in his emphasis on independent thinkers and aggressive doers, I doubt that the Daniel Boone persona will ever find a fruitful home in the corporate environment.

Sep 29, 2008 - 8:46 am 126. Konyok:

@slade

You just made me think of a crucial difference between old-time and zen socialists - the oldtimers would only take a job with a big corporation to whistle blow or figure how to put a bomb in the executive washroom, the zensters thrive in the corporate environment and strive to include *social justice* into the company’s mission.

Sep 29, 2008 - 9:10 am 127. slade:

zensational K.

Also all too true. Look at the supporters of the relatively new green LEEDS program for construction, which provides credits/points for a very oddball combination of some solid engineering design for energy efficiency, elements of the old Smart Planning movement for urban design, and, of course, the usual smattering of “environmentally friendly” designs. It’s literally The Latest Thing.

If housing ever comes back.

Sep 29, 2008 - 9:19 am 128. peterike:

I think that Sarah Palin is a good person and smarter than you give her credit for.

I agree, though I think she’s been deeply rattled by the MSM and Left. I don’t think she anticipated the level of hate thrown at her and her family, or the pernicious animosity of the MSM and it’s lust to derail her. Even “cute” little Katie Couric was a perfidious viper (as anyone who followed her career would have known she would be).

They got to Palin, and now she’s second- and third-guessing everything she says, which is why that confident, flawless delivery we first saw has turned into hesitating confusion. Mission accomplished again.

Now when do the Republicans sue to have the MSM declared a multi-billion dollar contribution to the Obama campaign?

Sep 29, 2008 - 9:56 am 129. Benj:

@K - Mentioned his mom because Clubbers were once fixated on her! Figured too it was an op to suggest (as I have often here) that Marxism/Statism isn’t the End of every tradition in leftist political economy. Once suggested O would be for capitalism with a human face. Not that good a line - but I’ll hang with it cos it’s short and sweet. Again - I don’t think O’s politics are unclassifiable. Liberal became a dirty word back in the day - on both the left and the right. Obama can’t exactly clean up the word but he’s out to revive the spirit and pursue the “social” programs needed in a new era. He’s written a relatively wonkish book on all that - No real reason to think his approach to governing will deviate much from the one he spelled out in “Audacity.”

A couple threads back you allowed that Clubbbers’ campaign-related talk re “blood on the streets” was way over the top. But you seemed to have walked back quite a bit there…Not sure why you worry O may be a Tac-ky Chavez wannabe. You might consider all that from an aesthetic angle since you seem to think that’s a key to O’s appeal. Is O muy macho? Not so much, no? If his It is all about sublating anger into Cool, how do you get to coup d’etat? Unless you’re won over by the perfervid scenarios of Whiskey et al. (I’ll have what he’s having?)

And is the campaign really about It? Might consider that O’s tactic at this point is to keep the focus off persona and on, ah, material conditions/issues. If it’s about personal stories - Mac is in the game. If not…

Re Palin - Went back to check. Wasn’t going for gotchas above. Just noting (as I have each day) the increasing number of folks on the right who are re-thinking their support for Mac’s pick. I’ll allow I wonder if you thought they were bowing down to the crowd or being true to their own capacity to recognize when Palin - or anyone - talks gibberish to a National audience. But - just so we’re all clear - I’m on record here as having said that I thought Palin seemed smart and winning in that spring C-Span interview. I do think that she has - to quote Ed Rollins - “lost her confidence.” And - in the midst of the flailing - she has come across (on a couple instances) as a bit too…bitter.

Sep 29, 2008 - 10:41 am 130. peterike:

You might consider all that from an aesthetic angle since you seem to think that’s a key to O’s appeal. Is O muy macho? Not so much, no? If his It is all about sublating anger into Cool, how do you get to coup d’etat?

O does indeed play the role of the “cool” one, but his minions decidely do not. They are angry, fierce and pitiless in their self-righteousness. O doesn’t have to be the bad cop. He is the good cop with a million bad cops that will jump at his oh-so-cool nod of the head. And O does nothing to “sublate” anger into cool. Rather, he makes it cool to be angry. He enables anger by giving it a patina of world-saving grace. He enobles anger by making it the means to a holy end (watch as the waters begin to recede).

I do think that [Palin] has - to quote Ed Rollins - “lost her confidence.” And - in the midst of the flailing - she has come across (on a couple instances) as a bit too…bitter.

Well Benj, I dunno, but if you suddenly found that you, your background, your children, your spouse, your religion, your lifestyle, your worldview, your state, your hairstyle and glasses were the subject of a multi-billion dollar 24×7 hate campaign from blogs to news shows to Saturday Night Live, all because you actually wanted to help your country, well maybe you’d be a bit bitter too, now huh?

Sep 29, 2008 - 11:14 am 131. Konyok:

@Benj,

It is precisely because Senator Obama does not explicate his philosophy, but reflects back what his supporters want (”It’s not about me, it’s about you!”), that any attempt to classify him must be holistic and include both his interactions with his base and the subsequent actions of his base.

I am not a blood-in-the-streets believer. Frankly, I don’t feel that Americans sense existential threats one way or the other. At least, not yet anyway. (A protracted recount crisis could be the game changer … ) But, it does seem like we’re stepping out of the dynastic pot into the personality cult fire.

Obama is not a traditional liberal, eg. Johnson, Humphrey, Mondale. Neither is he a post-Watergate liberal, eg. Dukakis, Hart, Wellstone, Kerry. And he certainly isn’t a DLC guy like Clinton or Lieberman. He’s not an overt Democratic Socialist like Kucinich or the congressional black caucus. His closest affinity seems to be with Al Gore, except that he doesn’t seem to have the hedgehog’s attachment to any one goal. (Well, perhaps getting himself elected.)

Senator Obama hits all of the aesthetic notes, but never provides rationales. This appeals very much to those who get *it,* but is not merely unconvincing to those who don’t.

Sep 29, 2008 - 11:41 am 132. Bob Smith:

I do not understand why the idea that the Democrats are the “party for the lower classes” persists. Look at their leadership. Soros. Gates. Buffet. Kerry. All ultra-rich on a scale the Republicans would die for. A mere few million won’t get you to the middle ranks of the Democratic party. And if they really are for the lower classes, why is it that their intentions are lauded while the actual results of their policies are ignored?

Sep 29, 2008 - 12:49 pm 133. Steynian 258 « Free Mark Steyn!:

[...] THE CONVENTIONAL WISDOM “is that Obama is the man of the future. It’s argued that he represents what the younger [...]

Sep 29, 2008 - 5:15 pm 134. 3Case:

“They feel they have the votes, the momentum, and their “constituents” approve of their ideology and methodology. They are on a headlong rush to a long awaited victory where they will crush the oppressors. They can smell the cool, clean air of freedom of long awaited Change. They tremblingly anticipate the euphoric rush of Hope realized. Anything is possible, free from the restraints of the old ways of doing things, there are no limits to anything.”

Well said.

Query: Has anyone checked the clothing factories to see if there has been an increase in orders for brown shirts?

Sep 30, 2008 - 5:25 am 135. David M:

The Thunder Run has linked to this post in the - Web Reconnaissance for 10/01/2008 A short recon of what’s out there that might draw your attention, updated throughout the day…so check back often.

Oct 1, 2008 - 1:24 pm

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