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	<title>Comments on: Fire at will</title>
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	<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/10/05/fire-at-will/</link>
	<description>Just another Pajamasmedia.com weblog</description>
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		<title>By: Expressions</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/10/05/fire-at-will/comment-page-3/#comment-19001</link>
		<dc:creator>Expressions</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Oct 2008 18:34:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=367#comment-19001</guid>
		<description>People only believe the attacks are negative because the mainstream media illuminati paint that picture in people&#039;s minds.  If they only cover the liberal side, you will believe it&#039;s all negative.  Don&#039;t be bias, be fair.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>People only believe the attacks are negative because the mainstream media illuminati paint that picture in people&#8217;s minds.  If they only cover the liberal side, you will believe it&#8217;s all negative.  Don&#8217;t be bias, be fair.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob Murphy</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/10/05/fire-at-will/comment-page-3/#comment-16236</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Murphy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Oct 2008 22:05:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=367#comment-16236</guid>
		<description>@lael
Nicely put.
I agree.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@lael<br />
Nicely put.<br />
I agree.</p>
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		<title>By: lael</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/10/05/fire-at-will/comment-page-3/#comment-16125</link>
		<dc:creator>lael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Oct 2008 15:18:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=367#comment-16125</guid>
		<description>Bob: Ha, yes, I also thought of the male response to Sarah Palin as parallel to the female response to Obama. And the analogy holds: on the one hand, no doubt there is some truth to a &quot;reductive&quot; reading of that response (a component of her resonance as a candidate among men has something to do with their biological maleness); but on the other hand reducing her popularity to that or explaining it away in those terms would be distorting and insulting to male voters. (And I&#039;d be in the position of Chris Matthews: as a woman, listening to her speech, I was a little infatuated myself.)

I agree with the rest of what you wrote... The problem is, the attraction of Obama for many voters (i.e. not so much leftist as centrist-moderate) does draw on good, traditional American values (if it didn&#039;t he couldn&#039;t attract enough of the middle to win)-- the problem is that this Obama is a mirage, stage-managed by an obsequious media &amp; a shameless campaign (e.g. not above using the race card in the most cynical way, using strong arm tactics to suppress or block free speech by the opposition, etc.).  I do worry that we may well have as our next president a man who has found congenial company (&amp; mentorship, ideological affiliation, political collaboration, spiritual sustenance) among the most virulent, radical, hateful, extreme anti-Americans imaginable. I shudder at the thought. (How is it psychologically possible for a human being to be, as he presents himself, completely untainted &amp; intellectually detached-- indeed, intellectually/ spiritually opposed-- to all that, the milieu of his political &amp; ideological development, including those who are to this day (or at least to the start of his candidacy, e.g. in the case of Wright) his friends &amp; peers? How is that possible unless you&#039;re, like, a sociopath? (It says something that I&#039;d prefer that to be the case... that our likely president be something of a sociopath... to the alternative...)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bob: Ha, yes, I also thought of the male response to Sarah Palin as parallel to the female response to Obama. And the analogy holds: on the one hand, no doubt there is some truth to a &#8220;reductive&#8221; reading of that response (a component of her resonance as a candidate among men has something to do with their biological maleness); but on the other hand reducing her popularity to that or explaining it away in those terms would be distorting and insulting to male voters. (And I&#8217;d be in the position of Chris Matthews: as a woman, listening to her speech, I was a little infatuated myself.)</p>
<p>I agree with the rest of what you wrote&#8230; The problem is, the attraction of Obama for many voters (i.e. not so much leftist as centrist-moderate) does draw on good, traditional American values (if it didn&#8217;t he couldn&#8217;t attract enough of the middle to win)&#8211; the problem is that this Obama is a mirage, stage-managed by an obsequious media &amp; a shameless campaign (e.g. not above using the race card in the most cynical way, using strong arm tactics to suppress or block free speech by the opposition, etc.).  I do worry that we may well have as our next president a man who has found congenial company (&amp; mentorship, ideological affiliation, political collaboration, spiritual sustenance) among the most virulent, radical, hateful, extreme anti-Americans imaginable. I shudder at the thought. (How is it psychologically possible for a human being to be, as he presents himself, completely untainted &amp; intellectually detached&#8211; indeed, intellectually/ spiritually opposed&#8211; to all that, the milieu of his political &amp; ideological development, including those who are to this day (or at least to the start of his candidacy, e.g. in the case of Wright) his friends &amp; peers? How is that possible unless you&#8217;re, like, a sociopath? (It says something that I&#8217;d prefer that to be the case&#8230; that our likely president be something of a sociopath&#8230; to the alternative&#8230;)</p>
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		<title>By: Bob Murphy</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/10/05/fire-at-will/comment-page-3/#comment-16090</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Murphy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Oct 2008 08:54:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=367#comment-16090</guid>
		<description>And that assumes you have a system that does not reward hucksters, thieves, murderers and that sort of thing at the expense of that reasonable man, of course.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And that assumes you have a system that does not reward hucksters, thieves, murderers and that sort of thing at the expense of that reasonable man, of course.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob Murphy</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/10/05/fire-at-will/comment-page-3/#comment-16074</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Murphy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Oct 2008 05:51:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=367#comment-16074</guid>
		<description>@lael
Ponder, if you will, the sub-intellectual basis for some of Sarah Palin&#039;s popularity among &quot;Joe six pack&quot; types. 
It goes two ways.
I&#039;m far more concerned with the underlying values that give people proclivities to choose an Obama.
He and his wife seem to reject the tradictional values that formed the foundation for this great nation (notwithstanding its faults).
They make me fear for the future of this country but many if not most Obama supporters do not consider the likely consequences of him getting elected.
Democracy is traditionally based on the notion of the reasonable man. Without reason and a certain amount of probity it can&#039;t survive.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@lael<br />
Ponder, if you will, the sub-intellectual basis for some of Sarah Palin&#8217;s popularity among &#8220;Joe six pack&#8221; types.<br />
It goes two ways.<br />
I&#8217;m far more concerned with the underlying values that give people proclivities to choose an Obama.<br />
He and his wife seem to reject the tradictional values that formed the foundation for this great nation (notwithstanding its faults).<br />
They make me fear for the future of this country but many if not most Obama supporters do not consider the likely consequences of him getting elected.<br />
Democracy is traditionally based on the notion of the reasonable man. Without reason and a certain amount of probity it can&#8217;t survive.</p>
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		<title>By: lael</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/10/05/fire-at-will/comment-page-3/#comment-15994</link>
		<dc:creator>lael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Oct 2008 20:38:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=367#comment-15994</guid>
		<description>I just wanted to second Karen. I don&#039;t think my previous post was &quot;virulent&quot; (and in fact I appreciate fred&#039;s response, and take his point). And I&#039;m not saying all speculative psychologizing is to be rejected out of hand, I engage in it myself. I just found the specific explanation proposed here implausible. And yes, I admit that, like Karen, I do sometimes bristle at what seem (to me) overbroad or reductive generalizations about women, as a woman... when I find that their explanatory function in a certain case doesn&#039;t ring true (to me). And in the context of political argument, it&#039;s grating-- to find women portrayed as &quot;responding to some pre-determined biological imperative,&quot; i.e. their judgment deprived (for the sake of argument) of full autonomy. (I realize none of us mortals is &quot;fully autonomous,&quot; but as a matter of ethics/politics we should regard each other as such, in principle, insofar as we are interlocutors in political argument.) Just as a matter of political tactics, and tact, it doesn&#039;t seem the best way to persuade women to your side. After all, wasn&#039;t Obama psychologizing when he tried to explain the behavior of those &quot;bitter clingers&quot;?

Yes, there is a real statistical phenomenon to be accounted for. But is the women/men ratio re Obama/McCain that different from what it&#039;s been in other electoral years re Dem/GOP? It&#039;s a genuine question; I don&#039;t know. But if the phenomenon is more general, then it&#039;s unwarranted to conclude it&#039;s something specific about how women respond to Obama, no? (On the other hand, look, I don&#039;t deny there&#039;s a lot of Obama-infatuation going on... but, as Karen says, there&#039;s plenty of Obama infatuation among men, too. Cf. the tingles running up Chris Matthew&#039;s legs...)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just wanted to second Karen. I don&#8217;t think my previous post was &#8220;virulent&#8221; (and in fact I appreciate fred&#8217;s response, and take his point). And I&#8217;m not saying all speculative psychologizing is to be rejected out of hand, I engage in it myself. I just found the specific explanation proposed here implausible. And yes, I admit that, like Karen, I do sometimes bristle at what seem (to me) overbroad or reductive generalizations about women, as a woman&#8230; when I find that their explanatory function in a certain case doesn&#8217;t ring true (to me). And in the context of political argument, it&#8217;s grating&#8211; to find women portrayed as &#8220;responding to some pre-determined biological imperative,&#8221; i.e. their judgment deprived (for the sake of argument) of full autonomy. (I realize none of us mortals is &#8220;fully autonomous,&#8221; but as a matter of ethics/politics we should regard each other as such, in principle, insofar as we are interlocutors in political argument.) Just as a matter of political tactics, and tact, it doesn&#8217;t seem the best way to persuade women to your side. After all, wasn&#8217;t Obama psychologizing when he tried to explain the behavior of those &#8220;bitter clingers&#8221;?</p>
<p>Yes, there is a real statistical phenomenon to be accounted for. But is the women/men ratio re Obama/McCain that different from what it&#8217;s been in other electoral years re Dem/GOP? It&#8217;s a genuine question; I don&#8217;t know. But if the phenomenon is more general, then it&#8217;s unwarranted to conclude it&#8217;s something specific about how women respond to Obama, no? (On the other hand, look, I don&#8217;t deny there&#8217;s a lot of Obama-infatuation going on&#8230; but, as Karen says, there&#8217;s plenty of Obama infatuation among men, too. Cf. the tingles running up Chris Matthew&#8217;s legs&#8230;)</p>
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		<title>By: 10-07-08 &#124; Drive Time Happy Hour</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/10/05/fire-at-will/comment-page-3/#comment-15957</link>
		<dc:creator>10-07-08 &#124; Drive Time Happy Hour</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Oct 2008 18:03:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=367#comment-15957</guid>
		<description>[...] Richard Fernandez: Fire at will…It’s called going pre-emptively negative.  [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Richard Fernandez: Fire at will…It’s called going pre-emptively negative.  [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Belmont Club &#187; Attack at dawn</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/10/05/fire-at-will/comment-page-3/#comment-15888</link>
		<dc:creator>Belmont Club &#187; Attack at dawn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Oct 2008 10:01:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=367#comment-15888</guid>
		<description>[...] Obama is ready to pay McCain back in his own coin. As I wrote, it&#8217;s now Fire at Will. Read  &#124; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Obama is ready to pay McCain back in his own coin. As I wrote, it&#8217;s now Fire at Will. Read  | [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Karen</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/10/05/fire-at-will/comment-page-3/#comment-15887</link>
		<dc:creator>Karen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Oct 2008 08:06:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=367#comment-15887</guid>
		<description>I, too, come upon Whiskey&#039;s pronouncements on women and groan to myself, &quot;Oh no, not again!&quot;

While I concede the fact he cites - that women, especially young women, are overwhelmingly for Obama, I just can&#039;t stand the harping on the high-testosterone Alpha male as the never-failing chick-magnet while all the Beta-boys are contemptible.  The reason why I hate it so much is because it portrays women as if they&#039;re merely responding to some pre-determined biological imperative.  It makes women sound sub-human.  Like animals.  Answering the call of the wild, or whatever.

The first time I ever saw photographs (probably in some nauseating National Geographic) of African tribal women with their necks grotesquely elongated by the gradual addition of metal rings; or photographs of some other tribe&#039;s women with preposterously and weirdly distended lower lips achieved by the insertion of wooden(?) disks; or the first time I ever heard about the old Chinese practice of hobbling (crippling) women; or the first time I ever heard about female genital mutilation in the Muslim world... well, that&#039;s when I knew that culture trumps all else.  Can&#039;t you just admit that the toxic culture women grow up in has everything to do with their bad choices - and not all of them do make bad choices (miracle of miracles).

Whiskey himself admits that men have a &quot;habit&quot; of taking whatever sex they can find.  Now we&#039;ve had a generation&#039;s worth of exhortations to women to be more like men - finally! men get to have it their way! - and suddenly the breakdown of society is all women&#039;s fault due to single motherhood.

Nevertheless, it depresses me greatly that so many women are all gung-ho for Obama.  But then again, it depresses me greatly that so many of whatever gender are all gung-ho for Obama.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I, too, come upon Whiskey&#8217;s pronouncements on women and groan to myself, &#8220;Oh no, not again!&#8221;</p>
<p>While I concede the fact he cites &#8211; that women, especially young women, are overwhelmingly for Obama, I just can&#8217;t stand the harping on the high-testosterone Alpha male as the never-failing chick-magnet while all the Beta-boys are contemptible.  The reason why I hate it so much is because it portrays women as if they&#8217;re merely responding to some pre-determined biological imperative.  It makes women sound sub-human.  Like animals.  Answering the call of the wild, or whatever.</p>
<p>The first time I ever saw photographs (probably in some nauseating National Geographic) of African tribal women with their necks grotesquely elongated by the gradual addition of metal rings; or photographs of some other tribe&#8217;s women with preposterously and weirdly distended lower lips achieved by the insertion of wooden(?) disks; or the first time I ever heard about the old Chinese practice of hobbling (crippling) women; or the first time I ever heard about female genital mutilation in the Muslim world&#8230; well, that&#8217;s when I knew that culture trumps all else.  Can&#8217;t you just admit that the toxic culture women grow up in has everything to do with their bad choices &#8211; and not all of them do make bad choices (miracle of miracles).</p>
<p>Whiskey himself admits that men have a &#8220;habit&#8221; of taking whatever sex they can find.  Now we&#8217;ve had a generation&#8217;s worth of exhortations to women to be more like men &#8211; finally! men get to have it their way! &#8211; and suddenly the breakdown of society is all women&#8217;s fault due to single motherhood.</p>
<p>Nevertheless, it depresses me greatly that so many women are all gung-ho for Obama.  But then again, it depresses me greatly that so many of whatever gender are all gung-ho for Obama.</p>
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		<title>By: tanarg</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/10/05/fire-at-will/comment-page-3/#comment-15886</link>
		<dc:creator>tanarg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Oct 2008 07:49:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=367#comment-15886</guid>
		<description>The only thing to do if the traitor is elected is to refuse to cooperate, in any way we can. How about a refusal down the line to pay the government a dime? Unrealistic? Well, what’s a better way to resist and get rid of a monster who’s hypnotized his way into the White House?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The only thing to do if the traitor is elected is to refuse to cooperate, in any way we can. How about a refusal down the line to pay the government a dime? Unrealistic? Well, what’s a better way to resist and get rid of a monster who’s hypnotized his way into the White House?</p>
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