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	<title>Comments on: Leading from behind</title>
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		<title>By: Wadeusaf</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/10/09/leading-from-behind/comment-page-6/#comment-17615</link>
		<dc:creator>Wadeusaf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Oct 2008 11:44:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=455#comment-17615</guid>
		<description>Whoops, Here it is

http://www.spectator.org/archives/2008/10/14/anatomy-of-a-scandal</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Whoops, Here it is</p>
<p><a href="http://www.spectator.org/archives/2008/10/14/anatomy-of-a-scandal" rel="nofollow">http://www.spectator.org/archives/2008/10/14/anatomy-of-a-scandal</a></p>
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		<title>By: Wadeusaf</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/10/09/leading-from-behind/comment-page-6/#comment-17613</link>
		<dc:creator>Wadeusaf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Oct 2008 11:32:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=455#comment-17613</guid>
		<description>Buddy,

 Yup, as recorded here, 

http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=804986

and in an American Spectator piece by Jeff Lord, that is no longer up. Seems to me anyway, Mr Lord was lied to and as a result force to remove the copy. Shame I didn&#039;t copy the good links.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Buddy,</p>
<p> Yup, as recorded here, </p>
<p><a href="http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=804986" rel="nofollow">http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=804986</a></p>
<p>and in an American Spectator piece by Jeff Lord, that is no longer up. Seems to me anyway, Mr Lord was lied to and as a result force to remove the copy. Shame I didn&#8217;t copy the good links.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: MNotaro</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/10/09/leading-from-behind/comment-page-6/#comment-17530</link>
		<dc:creator>MNotaro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Oct 2008 17:59:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=455#comment-17530</guid>
		<description>For most republicans, McCain is the lesser of two evils.  Most republican friends I have just don&#039;t want to vote for Obama and see his lefty illuminati politicians in DC.  We aren&#039;t voting for McCain.  We are voting against Obama.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For most republicans, McCain is the lesser of two evils.  Most republican friends I have just don&#8217;t want to vote for Obama and see his lefty illuminati politicians in DC.  We aren&#8217;t voting for McCain.  We are voting against Obama.</p>
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		<title>By: buddy larsen</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/10/09/leading-from-behind/comment-page-5/#comment-17393</link>
		<dc:creator>buddy larsen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Oct 2008 16:15:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=455#comment-17393</guid>
		<description>Wade, the 800K --you mean what the Obama campaign directly paid Acorn during the primary season. 

I was talking about the organization&#039;s grant funding from the US government. 

Voters who are unknowingly having their votes nullified, are paying for the nullification --and not only metaphorically and after an election gets stolen, but directly, almost, as cash up front, to finance the plan for election day. Taxpayers have in effect become accessories before the fact.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wade, the 800K &#8211;you mean what the Obama campaign directly paid Acorn during the primary season. </p>
<p>I was talking about the organization&#8217;s grant funding from the US government. </p>
<p>Voters who are unknowingly having their votes nullified, are paying for the nullification &#8211;and not only metaphorically and after an election gets stolen, but directly, almost, as cash up front, to finance the plan for election day. Taxpayers have in effect become accessories before the fact.</p>
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		<title>By: Wadeusaf</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/10/09/leading-from-behind/comment-page-5/#comment-17372</link>
		<dc:creator>Wadeusaf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Oct 2008 07:36:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=455#comment-17372</guid>
		<description>Please separate the $800,000 worth of ties figure from the ton of fraud in Missouri. That money from &quot;Oh&quot; to Acorn was spent in other states too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Please separate the $800,000 worth of ties figure from the ton of fraud in Missouri. That money from &#8220;Oh&#8221; to Acorn was spent in other states too.</p>
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		<title>By: Wadeusaf</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/10/09/leading-from-behind/comment-page-5/#comment-17371</link>
		<dc:creator>Wadeusaf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Oct 2008 07:33:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=455#comment-17371</guid>
		<description>$800,000 ties and a ton of fraud..., and that&#039;s just Missouri. It is about taking disenfranchisement to a whole other level. Tell it to the people of the State of Washington, Benj, that part about not affecting the out come of an election that is. 

In the past four years Washington Citizens have watched as its taxes increased, its expressed will overturned and spat upon and its state budget placed into deficit to the tune of billions of dollars. 

That is what we have to look forward to under an &quot;Oh&quot; administration! 

Overblown..., my hind end.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>$800,000 ties and a ton of fraud&#8230;, and that&#8217;s just Missouri. It is about taking disenfranchisement to a whole other level. Tell it to the people of the State of Washington, Benj, that part about not affecting the out come of an election that is. </p>
<p>In the past four years Washington Citizens have watched as its taxes increased, its expressed will overturned and spat upon and its state budget placed into deficit to the tune of billions of dollars. </p>
<p>That is what we have to look forward to under an &#8220;Oh&#8221; administration! </p>
<p>Overblown&#8230;, my hind end.</p>
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		<title>By: buddy larsen</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/10/09/leading-from-behind/comment-page-5/#comment-17309</link>
		<dc:creator>buddy larsen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2008 19:56:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=455#comment-17309</guid>
		<description>You&#039;re good, Benj --really good, but ACORN is taking taxpayer&#039;s money and using it to help only one of the two parties. And that&#039;s without even bringing up the actual operational --the &quot;shadow&quot; --charter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re good, Benj &#8211;really good, but ACORN is taking taxpayer&#8217;s money and using it to help only one of the two parties. And that&#8217;s without even bringing up the actual operational &#8211;the &#8220;shadow&#8221; &#8211;charter.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Benj</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/10/09/leading-from-behind/comment-page-5/#comment-17305</link>
		<dc:creator>Benj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2008 19:30:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=455#comment-17305</guid>
		<description>PS Just remember Coyotle&#039;s recent unmasking of that ridiculously inflated claim (made by right-wingers ans passed on here at the Club) about the #&#039;s of illegals holding bad mortgages. Folks are reaching....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PS Just remember Coyotle&#8217;s recent unmasking of that ridiculously inflated claim (made by right-wingers ans passed on here at the Club) about the #&#8217;s of illegals holding bad mortgages. Folks are reaching&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Benj</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/10/09/leading-from-behind/comment-page-5/#comment-17304</link>
		<dc:creator>Benj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2008 19:27:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=455#comment-17304</guid>
		<description>This piece handled the ACORN thing last week - It&#039;s a shuck - and it comes up every couple years...

The Gist of the ACORN Story

The Republican party is grasping on to the ACORN story as a way to delegitimize what now looks like the probable outcome of the November election. It is also a way to stoke the paranoia of their base, lay the groundwork for legal challenges of close outcomes in various states and promote new legal restrictions on legitimate voting by lower income voters and minorities. The big picture is that these claims of &#039;voter fraud&#039; are themselves a fraud, a tool to aid in suppressing Democratic voter turnout. But I want give readers a bit more detail to understand what is going because the right-wing freak out about ACORN happens pretty much on schedule every two years. The whole scam is premised on having enough people who don&#039;t remember when they tried it before who they can then confuse and lie to. And this is clearly important because I&#039;m hearing from a lot of people whose heart is in the right place thinking some real voter fraud conspiracy has been uncovered and that Obama has to distance himself from it post-haste. 

ACORN registers lots of lower income and/or minority voters. They operate all across the country and do a lot of things beside voter registration. What&#039;s key to understand is their method. By and large they do not rely on volunteers to register voters. They hire people -- often people with low incomes or even the unemployed. This has the dual effect of not only registering people but also providing some work and income for people who are out of work. But because a lot of these people are doing it for the money, inevitably, a few of them cut corners or even cheat. So someone will end up filling out cards for nonexistent names and some of those slip through ACORN&#039;s own efforts to catch errors. (It&#039;s important to note that in many of the recent ACORN cases that have gotten the most attention it&#039;s ACORN itself that has turned the people in who did the fake registrations.) These reports start buzzing through the right-wing media every two years and every time the anecdotal reports of &#039;thousands&#039; of fraudulent registrations turns out, on closer inspection, to be either totally bogus themselves or wildly exaggerated. So thousands of phony registrations ends up being, like, twelve. 

I&#039;ve always had questions about whether this is a good way to do voter registration. And Democratic campaigns usually keep their distance. But here&#039;s the key. This is fraud against ACORN. They end up paying people for registering more people then they actually signed up. If you register me three times to vote, the registrar will see two new registrations of an already registered person and the ones won&#039;t count. If I successfully register Mickey Mouse to vote, on election day, Mickey Mouse will still be a cartoon character who cannot go to the local voting station and vote. Logically speaking there&#039;s very little way a few phony names on the voting rolls could be used to commit actual vote fraud. And much more importantly, numerous studies and investigations have shown no evidence of anything more than a handful of isolated cases of actual instances of vote fraud.

To expand on this point let me quote from Richard Hasen, one of the most experienced and concise commentators on this question, from a June 2007 column in the Dallas Morning News ...

At least in hindsight, the center&#039;s line of argument is easily deconstructed. First, arguing by anecdote is dangerous business. A new report by Lorraine Minnite of Barnard College looks at these anecdotes and shows them to be, for the most part, wholly spurious. Sure, one can find a rare case of someone voting in two jurisdictions, but nothing extensive or systematic has been unearthed or documented. 
But perhaps most importantly, the idea of massive polling-place fraud (through the use of inflated voter rolls) is inherently incredible. Suppose I want to swing the Missouri election for my preferred presidential candidate. I would have to figure out who the fake, dead or missing people on the registration rolls are, then pay a lot of other individuals to go to the polling place and claim to be that person, without any return guarantee - thanks to the secret ballot - that any of them will cast a vote for my preferred candidate.

Those who do show up at the polls run the risk of being detected and charged with a felony. And for what - $10? Polling-place fraud, in short, makes no sense.

The Justice Department devoted unprecedented resources to ferreting out fraud over five years and appears to have found not a single prosecutable case across the country. Of the many experts consulted, the only dissenter from that position was a representative of the now-evaporated American Center for Voting Rights.


Again, there have been numerous investigations of this. Often by people with at least a mild political interest in finding wrongdoing. But they never find it. It always ends up being right-wing hype and lies. Remember, most of those now-famous fired US Attorneys from 2007 were Republican appointees who were canned after they got tasked with investigating allegations of widespread vote fraud, did everything they could to find it, but came up with nothing. That was the wrong answer so Karl Rove and his crew at the Justice Department fired them.

Vote registration fraud is a limited and relatively minor problem in the US today. But it is principally an administrative and efficiency issue. It is has little or nothing to do with people casting illegitimate votes to affect an actual election. That&#039;s the key. What you&#039;re hearing right now from Fox News, the New York Post, John Fund and the rest of the right-wing bamboozlement chorus is a just another effort to exploit, confuse and lie in an effort to put more severe restrictions on legitimate voting and lay the groundwork to steal elections. 

It&#039;s that simple. 

The author is Josh Marshall at TPM - Partisan but respectable...He&#039;s got the goods - Nothing here guys...Unless you believe Mickey Mouse is going to show up to vote...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This piece handled the ACORN thing last week &#8211; It&#8217;s a shuck &#8211; and it comes up every couple years&#8230;</p>
<p>The Gist of the ACORN Story</p>
<p>The Republican party is grasping on to the ACORN story as a way to delegitimize what now looks like the probable outcome of the November election. It is also a way to stoke the paranoia of their base, lay the groundwork for legal challenges of close outcomes in various states and promote new legal restrictions on legitimate voting by lower income voters and minorities. The big picture is that these claims of &#8216;voter fraud&#8217; are themselves a fraud, a tool to aid in suppressing Democratic voter turnout. But I want give readers a bit more detail to understand what is going because the right-wing freak out about ACORN happens pretty much on schedule every two years. The whole scam is premised on having enough people who don&#8217;t remember when they tried it before who they can then confuse and lie to. And this is clearly important because I&#8217;m hearing from a lot of people whose heart is in the right place thinking some real voter fraud conspiracy has been uncovered and that Obama has to distance himself from it post-haste. </p>
<p>ACORN registers lots of lower income and/or minority voters. They operate all across the country and do a lot of things beside voter registration. What&#8217;s key to understand is their method. By and large they do not rely on volunteers to register voters. They hire people &#8212; often people with low incomes or even the unemployed. This has the dual effect of not only registering people but also providing some work and income for people who are out of work. But because a lot of these people are doing it for the money, inevitably, a few of them cut corners or even cheat. So someone will end up filling out cards for nonexistent names and some of those slip through ACORN&#8217;s own efforts to catch errors. (It&#8217;s important to note that in many of the recent ACORN cases that have gotten the most attention it&#8217;s ACORN itself that has turned the people in who did the fake registrations.) These reports start buzzing through the right-wing media every two years and every time the anecdotal reports of &#8216;thousands&#8217; of fraudulent registrations turns out, on closer inspection, to be either totally bogus themselves or wildly exaggerated. So thousands of phony registrations ends up being, like, twelve. </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve always had questions about whether this is a good way to do voter registration. And Democratic campaigns usually keep their distance. But here&#8217;s the key. This is fraud against ACORN. They end up paying people for registering more people then they actually signed up. If you register me three times to vote, the registrar will see two new registrations of an already registered person and the ones won&#8217;t count. If I successfully register Mickey Mouse to vote, on election day, Mickey Mouse will still be a cartoon character who cannot go to the local voting station and vote. Logically speaking there&#8217;s very little way a few phony names on the voting rolls could be used to commit actual vote fraud. And much more importantly, numerous studies and investigations have shown no evidence of anything more than a handful of isolated cases of actual instances of vote fraud.</p>
<p>To expand on this point let me quote from Richard Hasen, one of the most experienced and concise commentators on this question, from a June 2007 column in the Dallas Morning News &#8230;</p>
<p>At least in hindsight, the center&#8217;s line of argument is easily deconstructed. First, arguing by anecdote is dangerous business. A new report by Lorraine Minnite of Barnard College looks at these anecdotes and shows them to be, for the most part, wholly spurious. Sure, one can find a rare case of someone voting in two jurisdictions, but nothing extensive or systematic has been unearthed or documented.<br />
But perhaps most importantly, the idea of massive polling-place fraud (through the use of inflated voter rolls) is inherently incredible. Suppose I want to swing the Missouri election for my preferred presidential candidate. I would have to figure out who the fake, dead or missing people on the registration rolls are, then pay a lot of other individuals to go to the polling place and claim to be that person, without any return guarantee &#8211; thanks to the secret ballot &#8211; that any of them will cast a vote for my preferred candidate.</p>
<p>Those who do show up at the polls run the risk of being detected and charged with a felony. And for what &#8211; $10? Polling-place fraud, in short, makes no sense.</p>
<p>The Justice Department devoted unprecedented resources to ferreting out fraud over five years and appears to have found not a single prosecutable case across the country. Of the many experts consulted, the only dissenter from that position was a representative of the now-evaporated American Center for Voting Rights.</p>
<p>Again, there have been numerous investigations of this. Often by people with at least a mild political interest in finding wrongdoing. But they never find it. It always ends up being right-wing hype and lies. Remember, most of those now-famous fired US Attorneys from 2007 were Republican appointees who were canned after they got tasked with investigating allegations of widespread vote fraud, did everything they could to find it, but came up with nothing. That was the wrong answer so Karl Rove and his crew at the Justice Department fired them.</p>
<p>Vote registration fraud is a limited and relatively minor problem in the US today. But it is principally an administrative and efficiency issue. It is has little or nothing to do with people casting illegitimate votes to affect an actual election. That&#8217;s the key. What you&#8217;re hearing right now from Fox News, the New York Post, John Fund and the rest of the right-wing bamboozlement chorus is a just another effort to exploit, confuse and lie in an effort to put more severe restrictions on legitimate voting and lay the groundwork to steal elections. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s that simple. </p>
<p>The author is Josh Marshall at TPM &#8211; Partisan but respectable&#8230;He&#8217;s got the goods &#8211; Nothing here guys&#8230;Unless you believe Mickey Mouse is going to show up to vote&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Storm-Rider</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/10/09/leading-from-behind/comment-page-5/#comment-17303</link>
		<dc:creator>Storm-Rider</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2008 18:56:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=455#comment-17303</guid>
		<description>This all boils down to a violation of the Declaration of Independence, the highest law of the United States. We are witnessing unjust government power which does not derive from the consent of the governed - elite minority rule over the majority.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This all boils down to a violation of the Declaration of Independence, the highest law of the United States. We are witnessing unjust government power which does not derive from the consent of the governed &#8211; elite minority rule over the majority.</p>
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