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	<title>Comments on: All for one and one for all</title>
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	<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/10/11/musketeers/</link>
	<description>Just another Pajamasmedia.com weblog</description>
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		<title>By: Bob Murphy</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/10/11/musketeers/comment-page-3/#comment-17592</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Murphy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Oct 2008 03:51:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=472#comment-17592</guid>
		<description>@Fletcher
I did not comment about Wretchard&#039;s view of aircraft carrier survivability because I thought his theme was worthy.
A battleship or cruiser would have been far better examples, the former because it has much thicker armor than a carrier.
The very nature of a carrier&#039;s task makes it vulnerable to an attack as became obvious in the Pacific in WWII.
A carrier&#039;s immense hangar decks where the aircraft are stored cannot effectively be compartmented, the elevators that carry the planes up to the flight deck are another weak point for fire or explosion.
And, of course, carriers carry immense amounts of aviation fuel and munitions.
Their function is to be a floating airport not a gun and missile platform like battlehships and cruisers.
I better stop here or Old Salt will be on my case. (Yep I know there are no more active battleships but they were an outstanding example of a hard design, meant to absorb immense punishment and survive)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Fletcher<br />
I did not comment about Wretchard&#8217;s view of aircraft carrier survivability because I thought his theme was worthy.<br />
A battleship or cruiser would have been far better examples, the former because it has much thicker armor than a carrier.<br />
The very nature of a carrier&#8217;s task makes it vulnerable to an attack as became obvious in the Pacific in WWII.<br />
A carrier&#8217;s immense hangar decks where the aircraft are stored cannot effectively be compartmented, the elevators that carry the planes up to the flight deck are another weak point for fire or explosion.<br />
And, of course, carriers carry immense amounts of aviation fuel and munitions.<br />
Their function is to be a floating airport not a gun and missile platform like battlehships and cruisers.<br />
I better stop here or Old Salt will be on my case. (Yep I know there are no more active battleships but they were an outstanding example of a hard design, meant to absorb immense punishment and survive)</p>
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		<title>By: Fletcher Christian</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/10/11/musketeers/comment-page-3/#comment-17501</link>
		<dc:creator>Fletcher Christian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Oct 2008 14:23:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=472#comment-17501</guid>
		<description>I would like to take issue with the notion that an aircraft carrier is difficult to sink. In fact it is very easy; I am told that when US carrier battle groups are involved in manoeuvres, that the rules have to be tweaked in order that the carrier survives. Any half-decent submarine captain has a pretty good chance of killing the carrier, if the rules aren&#039;t biased.

The US Navy ignores this, simply because nuclear carriers are impressive, and because they employ large numbers of sailors; which in turn increases the size of the Navy and hence makes plenty of room for well-paid, high-ranking officers and also lots of profits for shipbuilders. Stealth arsenal ships would do the same or better, with much less expense on men and machinery - which is precisely why the idea has been repeatedly shelved.

There is an analogy with the financial and corporate system here. Large units ought to be more efficient because of economies of scale, but just about never are. Why? Because large organisations make for bureaucracy, empire-building and various forms of cheating and embezzlement. Of course, there is a minimum effective size for a power plant or steel mill - but how big does a bank have to be?

Of course anyone would rather be the CEO of Bank of America than the manager of some local branch - but who benefits society in general more?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would like to take issue with the notion that an aircraft carrier is difficult to sink. In fact it is very easy; I am told that when US carrier battle groups are involved in manoeuvres, that the rules have to be tweaked in order that the carrier survives. Any half-decent submarine captain has a pretty good chance of killing the carrier, if the rules aren&#8217;t biased.</p>
<p>The US Navy ignores this, simply because nuclear carriers are impressive, and because they employ large numbers of sailors; which in turn increases the size of the Navy and hence makes plenty of room for well-paid, high-ranking officers and also lots of profits for shipbuilders. Stealth arsenal ships would do the same or better, with much less expense on men and machinery &#8211; which is precisely why the idea has been repeatedly shelved.</p>
<p>There is an analogy with the financial and corporate system here. Large units ought to be more efficient because of economies of scale, but just about never are. Why? Because large organisations make for bureaucracy, empire-building and various forms of cheating and embezzlement. Of course, there is a minimum effective size for a power plant or steel mill &#8211; but how big does a bank have to be?</p>
<p>Of course anyone would rather be the CEO of Bank of America than the manager of some local branch &#8211; but who benefits society in general more?</p>
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		<title>By: Leo Linbeck III</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/10/11/musketeers/comment-page-3/#comment-17346</link>
		<dc:creator>Leo Linbeck III</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Oct 2008 02:54:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=472#comment-17346</guid>
		<description>buddy,

Thx for the props. As an on-and-off, long-time lurker of BC, I have enjoyed and appreciated your work. Makes the compliment all the more meaningful.

L3</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>buddy,</p>
<p>Thx for the props. As an on-and-off, long-time lurker of BC, I have enjoyed and appreciated your work. Makes the compliment all the more meaningful.</p>
<p>L3</p>
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		<title>By: slade</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/10/11/musketeers/comment-page-3/#comment-17302</link>
		<dc:creator>slade</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2008 18:35:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=472#comment-17302</guid>
		<description>What a difference a month makes. It&#039;s true what they say about what you don&#039;t know.

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbBnluNBMGc&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;For Congress &amp; Wall Street&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What a difference a month makes. It&#8217;s true what they say about what you don&#8217;t know.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbBnluNBMGc" rel="nofollow">For Congress &amp; Wall Street</a></p>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/10/11/musketeers/comment-page-3/#comment-17289</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2008 16:13:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=472#comment-17289</guid>
		<description>Amen Buddy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Amen Buddy.</p>
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		<title>By: buddy larsen</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/10/11/musketeers/comment-page-3/#comment-17280</link>
		<dc:creator>buddy larsen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2008 15:30:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=472#comment-17280</guid>
		<description>L3 and Slade have been an informative pleasure to read on this thread --others too, but those two outdid themselves --i say &#039;thanks&#039; --</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>L3 and Slade have been an informative pleasure to read on this thread &#8211;others too, but those two outdid themselves &#8211;i say &#8216;thanks&#8217; &#8211;</p>
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		<title>By: slade</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/10/11/musketeers/comment-page-3/#comment-17264</link>
		<dc:creator>slade</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2008 10:26:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=472#comment-17264</guid>
		<description>Leo - my understanding - such as it is - described by &lt;a href=&quot;http://finance.yahoo.com/expert/article/yourlife/109609&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Ben Stein:&lt;/a&gt;

[start quote]

Here&#039;s one big part of the answer. First, the alert reader will notice that Ben Stein said many times that &lt;b&gt;the amount of money at risk in the subprime meltdown was just not enough to sink an economy of this size.&lt;/b&gt; And I was right...to a point. The amount of subprime that defaulted was at most - after recovery in liquidation - about $250 billion. A huge sum but not enough to torpedo the US economy.

The crisis occurred (to greatly oversimplify) because the financial system allowed entities to place bets on whether or not those mortgages would ever be paid. You didn&#039;t have to own a mortgage to make the bets. These bets, called Credit Default Swaps, are complex. But in a nutshell, they allow someone to profit immensely - staggeringly - if large numbers of subprime mortgages are not paid off and go into default.

&lt;b&gt;The profit can be wildly out of proportion to the real amount of defaults, because speculators can push down the price of instruments tied to the subprime mortgages far beyond what the real rates of loss have been.&lt;/b&gt; As I said, the profits here can be beyond imagining. (In fact, they can be so large that one might well wonder if the whole subprime fiasco was not set up just to allow speculators to profit wildly on its collapse...)

These Credit Default Swaps have been written (as insurance is written) as private contracts. There is nil government regulation of them. Who writes these policies? Banks. Investment banks. Insurance companies. They now owe the buyers of these Credit Default Swaps on junk mortgage debt trillions of dollars. It is this liability that is the bottomless pit of liability for the financial institutions of America.

Because these giant financial companies never dreamed that the subprime mortgage securities could fall as far as they did, they did not enter a potential liability for these CDS policies anywhere near their true liability - which again, is virtually bottomless. They do not have a countervailing asset to pay off the liability.

[end quote]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Leo &#8211; my understanding &#8211; such as it is &#8211; described by <a href="http://finance.yahoo.com/expert/article/yourlife/109609" rel="nofollow">Ben Stein:</a></p>
<p>[start quote]</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s one big part of the answer. First, the alert reader will notice that Ben Stein said many times that <b>the amount of money at risk in the subprime meltdown was just not enough to sink an economy of this size.</b> And I was right&#8230;to a point. The amount of subprime that defaulted was at most &#8211; after recovery in liquidation &#8211; about $250 billion. A huge sum but not enough to torpedo the US economy.</p>
<p>The crisis occurred (to greatly oversimplify) because the financial system allowed entities to place bets on whether or not those mortgages would ever be paid. You didn&#8217;t have to own a mortgage to make the bets. These bets, called Credit Default Swaps, are complex. But in a nutshell, they allow someone to profit immensely &#8211; staggeringly &#8211; if large numbers of subprime mortgages are not paid off and go into default.</p>
<p><b>The profit can be wildly out of proportion to the real amount of defaults, because speculators can push down the price of instruments tied to the subprime mortgages far beyond what the real rates of loss have been.</b> As I said, the profits here can be beyond imagining. (In fact, they can be so large that one might well wonder if the whole subprime fiasco was not set up just to allow speculators to profit wildly on its collapse&#8230;)</p>
<p>These Credit Default Swaps have been written (as insurance is written) as private contracts. There is nil government regulation of them. Who writes these policies? Banks. Investment banks. Insurance companies. They now owe the buyers of these Credit Default Swaps on junk mortgage debt trillions of dollars. It is this liability that is the bottomless pit of liability for the financial institutions of America.</p>
<p>Because these giant financial companies never dreamed that the subprime mortgage securities could fall as far as they did, they did not enter a potential liability for these CDS policies anywhere near their true liability &#8211; which again, is virtually bottomless. They do not have a countervailing asset to pay off the liability.</p>
<p>[end quote]</p>
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		<title>By: Leo Linbeck III</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/10/11/musketeers/comment-page-3/#comment-17257</link>
		<dc:creator>Leo Linbeck III</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2008 06:49:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=472#comment-17257</guid>
		<description>slade,

Re: Delphi
Just because CDSs exceeded the value of its bonds tenfold doesn&#039;t mean losses increased tenfold. Total losses were limited to the losses on the bonds. The CDSs just spread that risk around. 

There are only two ways CDSs are used: hedging and speculation. If the losses were hedged, the losses moved from the lenders to the buyers of the CDSs. No increase in loss, just a transfer of losses from one party to another. If the losses were speculative, they were fully offset by speculative gains. No increase in loss, just a transfer of wealth from one group of rich people to another group of rich people. Doesn&#039;t keep me up at night.

So, I still fail to see the problem. In fact, CDSs might be a net positive (losses shared by many instead of a few). But maybe I&#039;m missing something...

L3</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>slade,</p>
<p>Re: Delphi<br />
Just because CDSs exceeded the value of its bonds tenfold doesn&#8217;t mean losses increased tenfold. Total losses were limited to the losses on the bonds. The CDSs just spread that risk around. </p>
<p>There are only two ways CDSs are used: hedging and speculation. If the losses were hedged, the losses moved from the lenders to the buyers of the CDSs. No increase in loss, just a transfer of losses from one party to another. If the losses were speculative, they were fully offset by speculative gains. No increase in loss, just a transfer of wealth from one group of rich people to another group of rich people. Doesn&#8217;t keep me up at night.</p>
<p>So, I still fail to see the problem. In fact, CDSs might be a net positive (losses shared by many instead of a few). But maybe I&#8217;m missing something&#8230;</p>
<p>L3</p>
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		<title>By: slade</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/10/11/musketeers/comment-page-3/#comment-17134</link>
		<dc:creator>slade</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Oct 2008 13:45:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=472#comment-17134</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.voxeu.org/index.php?q=node/2420&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Stormy Weather in the Credit Default Swap Market&lt;/a&gt;


&lt;i&gt;The size of the market has soared well above the value of the underlying debt that they are supposed to insure &lt;b&gt;(reaching about USD 62 trillion at the end of 2007).&lt;/b&gt; This has become clear since 2005, when Delphi, the auto parts maker, went bankrupt: the CDS on Delphi’s debt in the market exceeded the value of its bonds tenfold.&lt;/i&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.voxeu.org/index.php?q=node/2420" rel="nofollow">Stormy Weather in the Credit Default Swap Market</a></p>
<p><i>The size of the market has soared well above the value of the underlying debt that they are supposed to insure <b>(reaching about USD 62 trillion at the end of 2007).</b> This has become clear since 2005, when Delphi, the auto parts maker, went bankrupt: the CDS on Delphi’s debt in the market exceeded the value of its bonds tenfold.</i></p>
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		<title>By: slade</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/10/11/musketeers/comment-page-3/#comment-17068</link>
		<dc:creator>slade</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2008 23:15:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=472#comment-17068</guid>
		<description>Thanks to the &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gramm-Leach-Bliley_Act&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act (2000)&lt;/a&gt; the derivatives market, including CDO&#039;s, CMO&#039;s, and CDS&#039;s, are largely unregulated; the bill designed by Phill Gramm and signed by Bill Clinton at the approval of Bob Rubin, another in-the-news Goldman Sachs alumnus.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks to the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gramm-Leach-Bliley_Act" rel="nofollow">Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act (2000)</a> the derivatives market, including CDO&#8217;s, CMO&#8217;s, and CDS&#8217;s, are largely unregulated; the bill designed by Phill Gramm and signed by Bill Clinton at the approval of Bob Rubin, another in-the-news Goldman Sachs alumnus.</p>
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