163 Comments

1. Max:

“If the match were nearly equal things would have been much harder.”

Well, duh. Any match that is equal is harder.

Do not conflate conservatives with Republicans. If the Republicans are destroyed by the Democrats I take Harry Truman’s view of Nazis fighting communists.

Oct 21, 2008 - 4:22 pm 2. Brett Blatchley:

Sadly Republicans do not understand that Democrats (and liberals) play “for keeps.”

Grass-roots conservatives understand this well and have been infuriated for years by the Republicans in office who have been ignoring (willfully or not) this basic fact.

Oct 21, 2008 - 4:29 pm 3. fred:

Some bloggers think that the elections in 2010 will stop Obama and the Democrats cold in their tracks. I think not. A lot of these changes, particularly the subsidized health care, will be swiftly enacted, probably within the first year.

As for the courts, I cannot see any of the conservative judges retiring within four years. And most of the other five judges are still young enough to serve for years more. In fact, a couple of them are older than some of the four conservative ones. Where an Obama presidency will have impact in the courts will be the lower courts underneath SCOTUS.

I still expect the Obama presidency to be a failure in the economy and in foreign policy – especially foreign policy. The damage there could be very substantial. I believe that Joe Biden may have been hinting at this the other day. Seattle is a very Left wing town, and he was telling folks there (the faithful, rasberry RED kool-aid drinkers)to hang in as Obama’s popularity plummets. I think it means he is going to eschew actions that much of the non-Left in the country will not like at all. I think it means the United States will do nothing while allies are struck and terrorist regimes carry out their plans. I cannot imagine Joe Biden delivering the same message in places that are very different from Seattle.

The people in the health care field I know (and my wife is a medical professional) are resigned to the coming changes. They are anticipating the new system, and some are worried about making the same kinds of mistakes that happen in other countries’ socialized medical systems.

I am completely opposed to the coming presidency of Barack Obama. I will be voting for John McCain, who was not my first choice in the primaries, and so am doing my patriotic duty. But I am not optimistic about what is going to happen on November 5th. Even before this election this country was no longer a center-Right nation. I think we’ve been sliding towards socialism for some time now.

They’ve won and they are going for it all.

Oct 21, 2008 - 5:01 pm 4. mika2k1:

The largest undeveloped copper field in the world is in?
Guess who bought it all.

Oct 21, 2008 - 5:06 pm 5. RWE:

The question is: If Obama wins do we then play by the Democrats’ rules right back at them?

For all my life I have been deferring gratification, saving carefully, spending wisely, serving faithfully. For over 22 years now I have invested in mutual funds, reinvesting the income each year – and paying taxes. Last year I had to pay taxes on $90K worth of capital gains and dividends from mutual funds – and now that is all gone, at least twice over. Various taxes ate up over 50% of my real monthly income last year. It has been worse in some years. From 2000 to 2001 the value of my investments went down by over $100K but somehow managed to generate $34K worth of taxable income. I have just about concluded that I have been played for a sucker. Meanwhile, Joe Biden says I am not patriotic enough.

So, if I yank the money I have left in the market, pay off my house, tell my home insurance company to bugger off, buy gold, quit contributing to charity and decline any opportunities to work – what then? And if enough people do as I do what then? All the Left’s plans are based on people like me saying “Thank you sir, may I have another?”

What if Conservatives start working to make things worse instead of better? Or even just starting looking out for ourselves?

What if we burn Moscow?

Oct 21, 2008 - 5:09 pm 6. Konyok:

The great advantage that the progressives have is that conservatives waste most of their time preening and complaining.

Electoral politics is only the proverbial tip of the iceberg. Progressives have infiltrated and taken control of, or neutralized, nearly every cultural or political institution in the United States, virtually without opposition. We all share the blame.

Where were we when they went after the boy scouts? Why did we passively allow them to delegitimize our president? What was the critical point when our silence empowered the media to become openly partisan?

Day by day our opponents have taken the high ground as we have dithered. Many of us are angry at the Republicans, angry that we are not being served in quite the manner that we expect. How many of us have been willing ourselves to confront our opponents?

Preening and complaining, so many princesses struggling with so many peas.

Oct 21, 2008 - 5:13 pm 7. coisty:

So Michael Medved is now aware of how dangerous and permanent the changes that open borders will bring about yet he still doesn’t seem to believe the GOP should oppose such policies.

Medvev:In any event, we’ve been down this road before: the Republicans claimed credit for the restrictive Immigration Act of 1924, all but eliminating the flow of humanity from Eastern and Southern Europe, and as a result vast numbers of ethnic voters (Italians, Poles, Jews, Greeks and more) became loyal Democrats for a generation or more.

This shift in immigrant voters played a huge role in the establishment of the New Deal Coalition that won five Presidential elections in a row (1932 through 1948) and totally dominated Congress for an appalling fifty years (1930-1980).

Given his shrill support for the McCain/Kennedy amnesty last year I’m assuming here that Medved is suggesting that Republicans should champion open borders so (fingers crossed!) they will get “credit” from future Hispanic voters. So the demographic revolution would be fine to Medved as long as many of the new “Americans” vote Republican?

Wretchard: If conservatives now realize that their political enemies are not simply out to win an election cycle but to effectively destroy them, the only surprising thing is that they were surprised.

They should also not be surprised to learn that neocons like Medved are not really on the conservatives’ side in this struggle.

Oct 21, 2008 - 5:13 pm 8. Zim:

Conservatives will survive. They outwork and out breed the other side.

Oct 21, 2008 - 5:13 pm 9. Konyok:

mika,

A little off topic, eh?

You’re right, the Chinese got a copper concession in Afghanistan. Now all they have to do is build roads, a railroad, powerplant and participate in security. All under the watchful eye of the U.S. Probably the best news in that unfortunate country since the overthrow of the Taliban.

Oct 21, 2008 - 5:21 pm 10. mika2k1:

A little off topic, eh?
==

Not if you know the answer.

Oct 21, 2008 - 5:53 pm 11. whiskey:

Yes, Wretchard, but the electoral success of Obama will be based on a thin reed, and vigorously resisted.

The energy and manufacturing sectors will work to undermine him, along with employees and execs. The White Working class detests him, and the more he wishes to prove he’s “Black Enough” to his Farrakhan backers, the more they will fight. Under FDR, Mexicans were deported, and Blacks excluded from Labor Unions.

We have never had, and the West has never had, a prolonged recession/depression with Affirmative Action, PC, and Multiculturalism. The definition of a pre-Revolutionary state is when people who form the majority, were doing well and then suddenly have their position and status dashed, seemingly permanently.

That says nothing of a US or major Western City nuked. Once the abject fear subsides, people will do anything to “solve” the problem and the only way to do so is to be so strong and willing to use force against enemies that no one will dare to attack us.

FDR’s coalition was strong because he had massive votes. Obama’s core coalition is White Yuppies and Radicals, Blacks, Hispanics, and single White Women, who will come right up against the interests of everyone else, and in the case of single White Women, likely get peeled off as times get hard and survival dictates flocking to same ethnic/racial groups.

Oct 21, 2008 - 5:58 pm 12. Derek:

It all depends what the republicans do if they are defeated.

If they fight among themselves, they are doomed.

I don’t think Obama will have a long time to savor his victory. Something will happen that will define his presidency.

Fred: Any iteration of a subsidized medical system will be measurably and dramatically worse than what they have now. When Europe and Canada implemented their systems, it was an improvement over what existed. The US has a substantial system already that serves the population well, notwithstanding problems that exist. There is a real potential of breaking it rather than improving it.

Obama hasn’t shown the ability to make things he touches work. He is able to make people like him. A big difference.

I don’t think there is any slop left anywhere. Almost everything is on a knife edge, and any misstep will create a disaster. That makes a new New Deal a pipe dream. There ain’t anything to make a new deal with.

Derek (who doesn’t think that Obama has clinched it yet. We just had an election here where the conservatives were coasting to a majority, then lost it in the last two weeks.)

Oct 21, 2008 - 6:32 pm 13. Derek:

Oh, an interesting data point. In 1991 the NDP won when the opposition fell apart. They ruled for 10 years. The provincial GDP was around half of the rest of the country during their years in power. A large segment of the business class didn’t invest in anything new during those years, culminating after a decade in a stalled economy that took off within months of the Liberals cutting taxes.

So yes, it is possible for people to sit on their hands. If the Democrats want to raise taxes like they say, people will sit on their hands.

Derek

Oct 21, 2008 - 6:37 pm 14. Derek:

This is British Columbia.

Derek

Oct 21, 2008 - 6:38 pm 15. Ex-fetus:

This is why I have been predicting a civil war. Everybody laughs at me, but I see the climate as ripe. Not until next summer or fall. It will take a while to organize and we need to get the troops home first.
About 60% of the police and 70% of the military are anti-OBAMA. Considering that Obama is an illegitimate Presidential candidate, if you are an American, you have no moral choice other then acting against the Obama coup.
I hope it doesn’t get to that. Supposedly next Monday lawyers all across the nation will be filing to have Obama’s name removed from the ballot in their various states. That will open a can of worms.
If Obama can prove that he is a natural born American citizen and can win the election without ACORN stuffing the ballot boxes, then he deserves to be President. But if the Left steals the election, the Right will steal it back. At gunpoint.
If there is a pool, I pick Oklahoma as where the civil war starts.

Oct 21, 2008 - 6:38 pm 16. Derek:

Another interesting thing to remember. Since the beginning of the year, the economy has been growing slowly. Coming after many years of 3-5% growth, what did it feel like? Recession.

What happens when a real recession hits, unemployment rises from the very low 6.2% now to around 10 or 12%. And Obama is president.

Or McCain.

Derek

Oct 21, 2008 - 6:40 pm 17. El Jefe Maximo:

This was the problem which destroyed the Roman Republic…when politics, from the time of Gaius Gracchus onwards, became winner-take-all. The Roman Republic ended the minute the establishment oligarchy politicans decided to go all out to destroy Julius Caesar (a basically conservative man) rather than make an ally of him. Predictably, Caesar refused to submit to destruction, and he destroyed them instead.

I have been intereted in the end of the Roman Republic and its replacement with the Empire my whole adult life. I never thought I’d live through it.

Oct 21, 2008 - 6:42 pm 18. sigintel:

We’ve just all experienced the “Great Financial Crisis of 2008″ … The media treats it like it was a TV series last week. The reality is that its still going on, extreme market volatility, banks failing and credit tight. Joe “Blow” Biden says that Obama will be tested by a “generated” event….immediately everybody is thinking political/foreign policy crisis but what if its WORSE? The US dollar becoming worthless as the global economy sinks into a world wide depression and the US defaults on its trillions of dollars in debts. What if there’s a run on banks eight months from now…what will the new President do? Bank holiday? New currency backed by “hot air” from the Fed? Wowzer this “event” is very hard to predict but my bet is on an economic crisis brought on by the collapse of the dollar as the worlds reserve currency.

Oct 21, 2008 - 6:50 pm 19. exhelodrvr:

Max,
“If the Republicans are destroyed by the Democrats I take Harry Truman’s view of Nazis fighting communists.”

Except this time, you don’t have the benefit of 2000 miles of ocean separating you from the combatants. They are fighting in your living room.

Oct 21, 2008 - 7:10 pm 20. Shivermetimbers:

Derek – you wrote:

“I don’t think Obama will have a long time to savor his victory. Something will happen that will define his presidency.”

FDR implemented policies that were a disaster and prolonged the depression. He got away with it by blaming his predecessor – Herbert Hoover.

I have no doubt that Obama will do the same thing with Bush, and the media will go along with this script. Just look at the outrage at his involvement with acorn and shaking down banks for sub-prime loans to people unqualified. Or, the media’s relentless attention on the culpability of Barney Frank, Chris Dodd and Chuckie Schumer in their role in blocking regulation of Fannie and Freddie.

Oh, that’s right, that didn’t happen.

We have not heard a peep about this with the exception of the WSJ, and Fox news (along with blogs such as this). Instead, the public attribute the financial crisis to Bush and McCain.

Like FDR, Obama will have free reign to implement socialistic programs – period. They will also make it difficult for the Republicans to win. Organizations such as Acorn will grow in power, and Washington DC will get representation in Congress. And there won’t be anyone to stop them.

As it has been said many times before – the Republicans are the stupid party, while the Democrats are the evil party.

In Robert Graves’ book ‘I, Claudius,” Tiberius said to his successor Caligula – “Rome deserves you.” Too many of the American people are stupid.

Oct 21, 2008 - 7:31 pm 21. fred:

El Jefe Maximo,

Your take on the last gasps of the Roman Republic coincide with how I see things. The senatorial oligarchy so wanted to destroy Caesar that they ended up unwittingly committing suicide.

I’m not ready to concede that our Republic is dead yet. But I am willing to concede that we are in grave danger, from within and from without.

Ex-Fetus,

Unfortunately, I am sanctioned from uttering the two words you used in your post on this forum. I drew the ire of several members, including Wretchard, for broaching the subject a few weeks ago. It is my earnest hope that it never happens. A political way has to be found to crawl back into political strength to beat off this internal threat from the Marxists and transnational elites. Only in extremis should the worst happen. If necessary, I would throw my support where I suspect others here know I would line up with. I have always honestly stated that contingency in the same progression as I’ve worded it here. And even being so cautious, it still drew the ire and condemnation of others. And that is all I am going to say in this matter.

Oct 21, 2008 - 7:33 pm 22. peterike:

The energy and manufacturing sectors will work to undermine him, along with employees and execs.

I doubt it. Our corporate executive class has shifted dramatically Leftward the past few decades. They’ve learned you go along to get along, and they’ve handed themselves an ever larger piece of the pie. Their obscene wealth has corrupted them and turned them into “citizens of the world,” not Americans. Just like Obama. Just like the increasingly vile Bill Gates.

While much of America’s recent distress is truly due to out-of-control Leftism, a good deal is also due to the out-of-control greed of our corporate oligarchs. Just how much money will satisfy them? Apparently, there is no known number that will manage it.

Why would the energy sector oppose Obama if his simple response is to nationalize their industries? The Dems are probably already planning to nationalize the oil companies. Electric companies will follow.

I don’t think the corporate leader class will oppose him for a minute, with perhaps a nobel exception here or there who will quickly find themselves neutered. The rest will love the fact that in the new socialist world there’s no competition anymore. And you can take however much you want from out of the kittie and any complaints from the workers will be met with the sound of wind over sand.

Oct 21, 2008 - 8:00 pm 23. wretchard:

Part of the problem with fighting the Left is that if you don’t fight hard enough, you are destroyed. But if you fight as hard as they do, there’s the chance you’ll polarize and destroy society. The Left’s uncompromising militancy holds civil society hostage.

The only solution I can think of is to fight militancy itself. That is, to oppose extremism in all of its virulent ideological forms. A society that lives in the center is innoculated against activists of all sorts. After September 11, the mere act of fighting Islamic extremism gave, plus the corruption of the Republican party and the shennnanigans of its more extreme ideologues, gave the Left and opportunity to drive the Democratic Party to the left. When Hillary and the old politicos were driven out, it represented the ascendancy of the extremists. Those extremists argued that Hillary et al weren’t militant enough to fight George W. Bush and what they needed was a Howard Dean, who was too white, or a Barack Obama, who just right.

What may happen is now that the Left will put the pedal to the metal and we’ll see a mirror image of the criticisms put by Kos towards Hillary. Already people are saying McCain isn’t militant enough, not hard-edged enough, to match the apparatchiks. Over the next few years the predictable ghastliness of the extreme left will provide ample opportunities for ideological entrepreneurs to arise. Then the middle will vanish and poof, we are in a zero sum political game.

Oct 21, 2008 - 8:05 pm 24. Konyok:

whiskey,

I have to admit that the scenario you described (economic crises accompanied by multiculti PC, etc. with attendant resentments ) approaches the revolutionary condition. Nevertheless, we have to devote ourselves to preventing it.

Political violence is the taboo that once broken leads irrevocably to the end of everything that we love and cherish.

Because of our ideals, if Obama wins, we must labor to the utmost for a soft landing. Our task will have to become to save the country from itself.

Oct 21, 2008 - 8:06 pm 25. vanderleun:

One can always fall back on the Joe Hill advice: Don’t mourn. Organize.

Oct 21, 2008 - 8:09 pm 26. fred:

The scenario that peterike has described above is an economy like… France’s. Very little small business, small companies, and entrepreneurship. Mostly large companies that get some kind of State subsidization. Typically, these companies are monopolistic or oligopolistic in their scope and practice.

Permanent, high structural unemployment.

You either work for the government or you work for a large corporation. Income is capped by high taxation.

Cultural persecution of Christianity and Judaism.

The U.S. Constitution is relegated to the museum as an artifact of the past, thanks to the ascendancy and hegemony of the “living” constitutional approach to law. Transnational bodies enact laws which supersede our traditions and laws.

Euro-socialism is the model going forward.

That is our future.

Oct 21, 2008 - 8:10 pm 27. Cannoneer No. 4:

An eye for and eye and a tooth for a tooth

Oct 21, 2008 - 8:15 pm 28. Wilbur:

McCain decided early and swiftly to distance himself from Bush. The strategy, though obvious in intent, has been an unmitigated disaster for the party and the country. 1. It undermines support for the troops and the war effort. “I support the troops but not the commander-in-chief” is the pathetic lib battle cry – to which McCain now unrepentantly subscribes. By running away from Bush, he also runs away from the nobility, righteousness, and certainty of the effort. He runs away from all the people who elected Bush twice and who could easily elect him once. 2. He legitimizes the entirety of the puerile criticism leveled at the US in the last eight years. All the political arrows Bush has taken in prosecuting the war both domestically and internationally are now being driven in and broken off by McCain. He is bronzing Bush’s legacy in terms defined by his most ardent critics. 3. It shows him to be a coward. If McCain has swayed from the “Bush Doctrine” in the slightest can someone show me where? McCain will certainly celebrate in the success that is Iraq should he get elected, but he hasn’t the cherries to give Bush any credit for it, at least not when the cameras are on (which makes him a coward all the more). I never did buy what McCain is selling, but I’ll certainly try the free sample on 4 November like a good little boy.

Oct 21, 2008 - 8:20 pm 29. Cannoneer No. 4:

Conservatives don’t start revolutions; they simply make sure their shackles are made no heavier.

Conservatism is Dead; Long Live Conservatism?

Oct 21, 2008 - 8:32 pm 30. David Thomson:

“…predictable ghastliness of the extreme left will provide ample opportunities for ideological entrepreneurs to arise.”

Disgustingly vile people like David Duke will take advantage of the situation. A Barack Obama administration will be anti-white. This is unavoidable because leftist doctrine inherently perceives white people, especially white males, to be a cancer on the Earth. There will inevitably be a reaction that will further the goals of far right-wing groups. Race relations will be set back in the United States by at least thirty years.

Oct 21, 2008 - 8:36 pm 31. Cannoneer No. 4:

The Misnomer of Conservatism

What we have come to call “conservative” or the Right is a group of principles whose definitional names have been invented by those who hate those principles.

Oct 21, 2008 - 8:37 pm 32. whiskey:

I don’t think people here understand FDR. Let me explain.

FDR did not win elections by “blaming” people, though certainly he did. He won by constructing, patronage networks that kept people afloat. Now, what were some of the less-discussed but more important aspects of FDR’s programs?

Deportation of Mexicans. FDR deported Mexicans as much as possible, and made proof of citizenship mandatory for access to Federal New Deal Programs. FDR aimed to be the succor and financial savior of the middle and working class. Which was then nearly 100% White. He also endorsed the AFL’s struggle to keep Blacks out of unions. Jobs went to Whites, not Blacks. Particularly the Railroads, which paid well and doled out as much work as possible. The Black Porters Union had a terrible time, because FDR was against them. Not because he was racist.

Because he could COUNT. In an economic crisis, it becomes a matter of slicing the pie for maximum effectiveness. That means your followers get all the slices and outsiders get none, and more importantly, a rival cannot peel off enough of your followers to leave you the loser.

Had FDR done the “right” thing and not deported Mexicans, made citizenship not required for Federal programs, and helped the Black effort to gain entry into Unions, he would have been tossed out on his behind so fast it would have set new speed records. In favor of a Republican offering a better deal in a time of crisis.

The lesson of FDR is patronage — what works and what does not. Simple as that.

Obama CANNOT offer BOTH: Open Borders, and Universal Health Care. He must, if he desires Universal Health Care, close the borders, restrict it to Citizens only, and actively deport aliens which means in practice, Mexicans, to the tune of about 15 million or so. There just is NOT ENOUGH MONEY to pay for it all. He’s subject to the same constraints, and if he tries both by printing money, he produces both recession and inflation, worst of both worlds, and alienates huge swaths of the White middle/working class who are suddenly crowded out by massive amounts of Mexicans seeking free medical care. Effectively denied care of themselves, and subsidizing that of Mexican nationals, who are in the US mostly illegally.

New Deal Socialism can “work” in maintaining patronage networks, but it requires a closed system (no massive immigration) and taking care of the most people. No matter how Obama adds it up, there will be more Whites than Blacks + Mexicans in the short term to allow Republican rivals to one-up him in Patronage: kick Mexicans out by deportation, a “better” Universal Health Service, catering to the majority, and preserve “national values” which means in effect, self interest, since few speak Spanish or are related to powerful Mexican families. Yes the Press would cry racism and it would … end in massive Republican victory.

Because in a LASTING DEPRESSION groups hedge themselves against downsides. Regardless of accusations of “low status” i.e. “racism” which have little pull in a crisis.

Obama’s margin of victory is not the White Working Class that gave the Presidency to FDR. It is Blacks + College Kids + White Yuppies (but I repeat myself) + Single Women + “some” married women + Mexicans. Take away “some” married (White) women and he loses. Take away Single White Women and Obama loses by a landslide.

Oct 21, 2008 - 8:43 pm 33. David Thomson:

Wow, I just posted my previous comments a few minutes ago. I had no idea whatsoever that I would find the following link on The Little Green Footballs website:

New Book by Ayers and Dohrn: “Race Course Against White Supremacy”

http://tinyurl.com/5qkcwe

Yup, the leftist establishment is really planning to stick it to non left-wing Ivy League white people. We may be entering a very dangerous era.

Oct 21, 2008 - 8:49 pm 34. Leo Linbeck III:

I’ve always been fond of Tolstoy’s explanation for why Moscow burned: cities naturally burn, and it takes the constant vigilance of its inhabitants to keep this state of nature at bay. Here’s how he put it:

However tempting it might be for the French to blame Rostopchin’s ferocity and for Russians to blame the scoundrel Bonaparte, or later on to place an heroic torch in the hands of their own people, it is impossible not to see that there could be no such direct cause of the fire, for Moscow had to burn as every village, factory, or house must burn which is left by its owners and in which strangers are allowed to live and cook their porridge. Moscow was burned by its inhabitants, it is true, but by those who had abandoned it and not by those who remained in it. Moscow when occupied by the enemy did not remain intact like Berlin, Vienna, and other towns, simply because its inhabitants abandoned it and did not welcome the French with bread and salt, nor bring them the keys of the city.

Should Obama win and enter Washington as Napoleon entered Moscow, the question is how our nation will respond. If we leave our nation to the conquering hero, it will most assuredly burn – figuratively, and perhaps literally as well.

The source of our strength is the industry and commitment of our sovereign citizenry. Most of us still believe that America truly is a shining city on a hill, and we work hard to preserve this vision in our hearts, our families, our local communities, and our nation.

Admittedly, Obama and his Democrat allies in the Congress can encourage us to abandon our dreams. They can attempt to tax, regulate, and muzzle dissent, hoping to gain more control over us. They can loosen the bindings that tie our fates together, hoping that when left to our own devices we will be too weak to respond to their challenges. They can divide us into castes, and pit one group against another, hoping that our energies will be expended upon each other instead of true reform.

Speaking only for myself, I am preparing not for abandonment, but for a siege. It is inevitable that Democrats, once in total control, will overreach and awaken the spirit of our Founders that lives within the hearts of all true conservatives. At that point, the pushback will come.

But this time, rather than pushing for a takeover of Washington to get our share of the spoils, we must use our power to eliminate the spoils.

We must push for a restructuring of the Federal Government that will reduce its scope, size, and influence. We must end the corruption of our public institutions by reclaiming the power that corrupts them. We must restore the checks and balances that the Framers intended by pushing through a program of subsidiarity.

But until the pushback comes – and it will come – we must prepare. We must not lose faith. We must not lose hope. We must endure, for our children as well as ourselves.

For if we – like Muscovites in 1812 – believe that there is nothing worth saving, then nothing will be saved.

L3

Oct 21, 2008 - 8:54 pm 35. Konyok:

Satyagraha.

Oct 21, 2008 - 8:58 pm 36. Derek:

Shivermetimbers: We aren’t 1929. The government could do all kinds of things in those times because it was small, and didn’t have much to do with anyone. There was room to experiment, room to grow government, room to improve people’s lives.

There has been <6% unemployment in the US for years. What we saw this spring was called a recession. The economy grew. It felt slow like pulling off a freeway onto the off ramp feels slow.

I don’t see it. Obama has no room to do anything. If he raises taxes, it will entrench the recession. If he tries a major health system overhaul, he will break things for vast numbers of people. If he scales back the military, pulls out of the middle east, figures he can sweet talk some of these characters, he will face major wars that will make Iraq seem like a cake walk. If he loosens up on law enforcement, crime will shoot up.

There is no margin.

Whoever gets in this time around will be chased out in 2012. We are in for a very rough time, and no one will look very good. We are into a perfect storm where half a dozen trends are going to peak in the coming few years. Peak or explode.

I think Obama and congress will try all kinds of things. But almost everything is on a knife edge right now, and any consequences will come fast and hard.

As I said above, the only factor that really counts is if the republicans start shooting at themselves. We had a situation in Canada where a prime minister didn’t even bring a budget to parliament because there was no opposition. I don’t think the republicans will self destruct however. There is a very large population of people who have much to lose if the do, and they will prevent it.

Derek

Oct 21, 2008 - 9:01 pm 37. WSL:

Satyagraha. Ghandi’s recipe for overthrowing an oppressive tyrrany using passive resistance. The problem: It only works when used against an opponent who retains some semblance of humanity. Does anyone really believe satyagraha would have overthrown Idi Amin? Thus, Konyok’s suggestion is effective only if those taking over our country are decent and humane. There is mounting evidence that such is not the case.

Oct 21, 2008 - 9:09 pm 38. Leo Linbeck III:

What Wretchard describes is the classic Prisoners’ Dilemma.

In the one-shot game, the only rational strategy is for each side to defect. But if the game is repeated, there is the potential for a win-win, so long as the temptation payoff is not too high.

But the spoils in Washington are so huge at this point, the temptation payoff so extraordinarily high, that the game has transformed again into a one-shot game. And the only rational way to play is to defect. Hello, hyper-partisanship.

The only way out of this is to change the structure of the game. This is best done by changing the payoffs, specifically, reducing the temptation payoff. That can only be done through by shrinking the size, scope, and influence of the Federal Government. Which can only be done by outside forces – no monopoly has ever reformed itself from within. It always takes competition from outside the system.

That is the path we will have to follow to assure our future survival. It is the path of subsidiarity.

L3

Oct 21, 2008 - 9:12 pm 39. Ken Nelson » Blog Archive » Must Read: Destiny:

[...] Richard Fernandez hits the nail on the head: [...]

Oct 21, 2008 - 9:25 pm 40. Cannoneer No. 4:

Article 102. Whoever for the purpose of counter-revolution commits any of the following acts is to be sentenced to not more than five years of fixed-term imprisonment, criminal detention, control or deprivation of political rights; ringleaders or others whose crimes are monstrous are to be sentenced to not less than five years of fixed-term imprisonment:

1. Inciting the masses to resist or to sabotage the implementation of the state’s laws or decrees; and

2. Through counter-revolutionary slogans, leaflets or other means, propagandising for and inciting the overthrow of the political power of the dictatorship of the proletariat and the socialist system.

Oct 21, 2008 - 9:30 pm 41. Willy:

Back to comments about the Roman Empire at the end of the Republic period…I have postulated to many friends, that Bush will remain president. I know he respects the institutions in Wash. and sees the presidency as larger than himself, but I feel there will be a serious crisis (larger than the economic one) and emergency rule will have to be declared. Even the current financial crisis could cause this. Who is going to be responsible for ensuring the Treasury Dept. spends the $700B in the proper way? Or is current Treasury going to spend it all before end of Dec? Anyway, that is my two cents. Bush 08—>

Oct 21, 2008 - 9:32 pm 42. joe buzz:

Now “the ones” legal team led by Bauer is trying to shut down complaints of voter fraud:
http://www.politico.com/static/PPM106_obama_doj_letter.html

What do you think will happen when these freaks gain executive power?

Oct 21, 2008 - 9:33 pm 43. fred:

I agree with WSL: the Left is not a humane movement. Their behavior here in this country and historically elsewhere has been one of repression and corruption. Therefore, we must resist them in gradual stages of warfare, first beginning on the level of organizing, educating, energizing, electoral politics, and using what we can of our own institutions. The very last stage, in extremis, is open, armed rebellion. And that last one is to be used only when the other side leaves us no other choice. Generally, I agree with Konyok in forebearing and working within our institutions to fight back. Unlike him, I won’t take certain options off the table. I just do not want to reach for THOSE options yet, and hope to never have recourse to it. Catholic “Just War” doctrine has pretty much shaped my thinking in these matters.

And the more I think about Leo Limbeck’s ideas of restoring subsidiarity to our government, the more I like it. But it is going to be a hard fight to do that. Why? Because there are states within the country that will not like it and are wholly given over to the emerging American experiment in Euro-socialism. Do you honestly think that the polity in places like California, Massachusetts, Washington, Illinois, Colorado, et al. are going to go for the idea of shrinking the federal government?

And whiskey is still spot on about the demographics that support Obama. We need not have any social psychological explanations for it, otherwise that interminable fight we saw before here will be revisited. Who needs that?

Oct 21, 2008 - 9:35 pm 44. Konyok:

Barack Obama is no Idi Amin.

Satyagraha, in this HYPOTHETICAL case (I remain convinced that McCain will win), is a leaf from Alinsky’s book – use your opponent’s strength.

Militant resistance, and dark mutterings, only plays into their hand. That is their narrative – angry reactionary conservatives threaten violence to defend their privileged status.

The way to build a national movement of resistance is through a principled political theater of human rights. The inevitable disenchantment with Obama would trend our way if we keep our heads.

Specific tactics would evolve in response to the actual initiatives offered. At this point we are approaching hysteria at the mere prospect. (Much to the benefit of Obama’s electoral campaign. The meme of inevitability is his greatest asset.)

Oct 21, 2008 - 9:39 pm 45. Unsk:

If the electorate is too brainwashed now to recognize the obvious evils of Obama and his friends, we may be in for a long debilitating takeover that is difficult to resist.

I’ve seen the slow socialist takeover of LA – taking it from a dynamic entrepreneurial can do kind of town to a overbearing you’d better not! nanny state.

I think the the Era of Obama will be similar to what happened in LA. Most won’t notice until it’s too late and most people won’t have the slightest idea what and how it happened.

The change will happen not with shocking, dramatic events, but with subtle transformations attractively packaged with omnipresent campaigns as what’s best for us. Much of it will be done at the bureaucratic level, the meaning and consequences incomprehensible to most of the public, like Obama’s tax and health care plans or his advisors plan to declare CO 2 as a pollutant. The legislation that is put forward will be much ballyhooed and deceptively marketed in favorable terms. The true meaning will be in the fine print, the interpretation, and the implementation. It will be a fashionably correct takeover with the Media, the Universities, the Charities, the Foundations and all the anointed Wise Men pronouncing for us the correct thing to do. Go along. Our betters subtly and not so subtly will ridicule those who don’t go along, just as they do now but worse. The public will be tranquilized by the combinations of handouts, other attractive dependencies and warnings against going back to the horrors of Reaganomics, and the Bush Doctrine.

The rules of the game will also be changed forever in the same way ACORN and illegal are changing the game now. The good strong Americans will be simply outnumbered.

Shivermetimbers, Peterike and others are right.The managerial class of MBA’s and attorneys have been thoroughly indoctrinated to sympathize with the left and abhore the right’s vulgar support of constitutional rights and criticism of those who deny those rights.
They will be the mush mouths warning against and hindering a dramatic push back.

It will be hard to resist because there will be few that both recognize the signs and are willing to risk doing something about it. Many of us who speak out will be threatened, targeted and destroyed. Look what’s happening now to Joe the Plumber, Sarah and Michelle Bachmann. It will only get worse, much worse. And as it now, the media will not report it. In fact, you will know even less because the media and the information outlets will be better controlled.

I hope I’m wrong but I don’t think the public will be awaken from the Obama takeover stupor until a really cataclysmic event like a nuclear war or a massive depression occurs.

Oct 21, 2008 - 9:47 pm 46. AZM:

37, WSL
Agreed. It’s “Gandhi”. It doesn’t work unless there is a high component of shame derived from visible pain. The key word is not “shame”. The key word turns out to be “visible”.

38. Leo
Please elaborate. Structural issues of this kind are intractable unless you have something/aomeone who can bridge the gap from here to there. McCain’s not intellectually capable. And Obama…well, his notion of right and wrong make me hope he suddenly turns stupid — G-d knows we don’t want his version of smart-sounding nonsense to rule this land for four, much less eight, years.

Oct 21, 2008 - 9:51 pm 47. 3Case:

“Who is John Galt?“

Oct 21, 2008 - 9:52 pm 48. fred:

No, Konyok, I do not agree with you that a priori certain options are off the table. By all means, I agree with most of what you say about how to go about this. But it is within the realm of possibility that every American has to decide where they would have been on a certain April morning in 1775. Or in the depths of winter in 1777 or 1778.

It would take a serious Constitutional crisis, I’m sure. What does tend to frighten me is the fact that the people coming into power believe in what is called the “living Constitution” and intend to make a heavy mark on the nation that way. What are we to do when a lot of judges will be legislating from the bench? How do you push back against that? It takes a very determined deliberative body to muster the courage to face down a federal judge. The judiciary has far too much power and tenure in this country.

Oct 21, 2008 - 9:55 pm 49. Leo Linbeck III:

I have become convinced that Obama’s key advantage in this campaign is money. (Duh)

His ability to outspend McCain in swing states 5:1 to 10:1 is an almost insurmountable advantage. It’s like air superiority – you might be able to win without it, but, man, it’s tough.

The thing that keeps bugging me about Obama’s money is the scale of the operation. $150M in September? There’s something that’s so implausible about that much money, especially when half of it comes from donors under $200.

One of two possible explanations admit:

1. There is massive fraud involved. Using the $200 disclosure limit as a cover, large donors are funneling money to his campaign in a systematic and illegal manner. It’s a pretty big damn loophole.

2. Obama has tapped into the next big thing. If that be the case, conservatives need to figure out how he did it and replicate his approach. That shouldn’t be so hard – my guess is that, having won, he’ll be proud to disclose the details. Assuming it’s legit.

The first still seems more plausible to me because a) next big things don’t come along very often (Black Swan), and b) it seems like you’d only want to opt out of the public financing system if you were sure you’d be able to raise a lot more cash than your opponent, and that surety could only come through commitments from a handful of really big donors who were funneling you money.

I’m not by nature a paranoid dude. But this just strikes me as weird. Anyone else? Any thoughts on how to figure this out?

L3

Oct 21, 2008 - 9:58 pm 50. Konyok:

fred,

I think maybe the rhetoric is going to your head, my friend.

The left is not a “humane” movement?

I’m sorry, but I really don’t see the Obama youth out there breaking skulls. I guess that I missed the recent rash of lynchings.

I haven’t taken any options off of the table. It’s just that I respect the seriousness of the question. Now is the time to fight an electoral contest, very possibly thereafter a recount contest – which I will very much be involved in. Then, if fortune fails us, political opposition for an unknown period. Only after sufficient provocation is anything else anywhere in the universe of possibilities. (Such provocation would have to be catastrophic – assuming emergency powers or other overt suspension of the constitution.)

Anybody who imagines some kind of armed rebellion upon an Obama inauguration is dangerously deluded. Obama would welcome that as nothing else. Providing him with a *dangerous enemy* would be the greatest gift.

Perhaps the time may come soon when Wretchard ought to tell us a little more of the struggle in the Philippines. The foundation of the Marcos regime was defense against marxism, in that cause the country suffered unspeakable oppression and corruption. Would we really adopt the same rhetoric?

Oct 21, 2008 - 9:59 pm 51. The FOGstream » Blog Archive » My Country, ‘Tis of Thee…:

[...] party and not understand, “My Country, ‘Tis of Thee…Richard Fernandez at PajamasMedia dials it [...]

Oct 21, 2008 - 9:59 pm 52. Mike Sylwester:

Good statement, Wilbur (28). I agree.

People who previously supported our Iraq War but eventually decided to oppose it would have respected McCain for defending again his own support for the war. When McCain gave Obama a free pass for boasting that he had been right to oppose the war from the beginning, McCain lost the foreign-policy debate. After that, McCain won only a minor point for boasting that he himself had supported the Surge.

And it’s too bad that McCain always forgot to mention that the Democrats will bankrupt our country.

Oct 21, 2008 - 9:59 pm 53. Willy:

All you comenters here at BC, enjoy your abilty to postulate and speak of treasonous things like revolution or defending the Constitution (as who interprets it? the future SCOTUS w/ liberal judges?) These sites will be, and probably are now, monitored, and such talk will someday soon lead to knoks on the door in the middle of the night. Revolution is nearly impossible to foment or organize nowdays. Only hope we have is a military coup. Not enough rural folks left to pull it off. Think Waco many times over…

I plan to be a pleasnt and obeient slave. No problems here massa.

Oct 21, 2008 - 10:01 pm 54. Leo Linbeck III:

AZM,

The structural changes would have to come in the form of Amendments to the Constitution. This can be accomplished – admittedly with great difficulty – outside of the Beltway through the use of Article V. I posted about this a while back.

My current thinking is that there are three major types of changes that need to be accomplished:

1. Electoral reform. This would be accomplished through two mechanisms:
a) Term limits for Representatives and Senators, and an age limit for Supreme Court Justices.
b) Elimination of the gerrymand through application of an algorithm for drawing districts that minimizes isoparametric inequality.
This reform would limit the power of legislators by limiting their ability to accumulate power through tenure.

2. Fiscal reform. This would be accomplished through two mechanisms:
a) A cap on Federal revenues as a percentage of GDP.
b) A balanced budget veto of the type developed by the Cato Institute.
This reform would limit the size and scope of government by limiting its resource base.

3. Proximity reform. This would be accomplished by forcing Congress away from Washington. Congressional sessions would have to meet in a different state each year, rotating through all 50 states.
This reform would limit the power of Washington by moving one of the three branches out into the country. The original reason for establishing Washington was because of the cost and time of travel. This is no longer an issue, and having Congressmen work in different states would bring them closer to the citizenry.

I’d also like to see the replacement of income-based taxes with consumption-based taxes, but that can be done if the first three reforms are passed.

This can all be done through the Constitution, so that we don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Additional ideas welcome. I’m drafting a white paper to expand on all of this, and would welcome any additional thoughts.

L3

Oct 21, 2008 - 10:12 pm 55. fred:

O.K., Willy and Konyok, I will shut up and be a good slave. Konyok, you exaggerate the scope of my rhetoric. You pulled out the extremist and forgot to take note of how I couched it all and my stated commitment to working within the system. You took my in extremis to be my primary position, and thus reduced me to a caricature. I don’t appreciate that at all. I think it unjust. Ball’s in your court. Defend how you interpret me and caricature me.

Oct 21, 2008 - 10:19 pm 56. CPT. Charles:

It’s not over until we quit.

Instead of worrying about losing, worry more about the wraith of the Left when they’re told…NO.

Anyone here think ACORN would be stuffing the ballot boxes if Obama KNEW he had the undivided loyalty of the traditional democrat base? Chicago rules work well…in Chicago.

If you have time to worry about losing, you’ve got more than enough time to think about succeeding.

Oct 21, 2008 - 10:26 pm 57. Konyok:

Sorry fred, no disrespect meant. You know that it has become a real hot button issue for me.

However, your statement in #43 that “the left is not humane” is suspect. Remember, the context is the argument that Satyagraha won’t work against the left. Undeniably they lie, they cheat and they steal. It looks like they’ve relearned the arcane arts of electoral fraud. But, they are boy scouts compared to their counterparts in much of the world.

We really do need to keep a sense of proportion.

Oct 21, 2008 - 10:39 pm 58. whiskey:

Unsk — LA became a leftist haven because Clinton’s budget cuts to the Defense Dept. killed all the Defense / Aerospace jobs that kept middle class, mostly White engineers and skilled labor in the LA area.

Who were replaced by lots of illegal aliens, and various entertainment yuppies. Same as SF’s morphing from late 1950’s gritty working man’s town, to Gay/Yuppie playground.

It was DEMOGRAPHICS. Which is Obama’s weak point. His margin is thin — since the biggest group, White men, are solidly against him and he has nothing to bribe/buy them off with. Indeed, he must take stuff away from them to satisfy his coalition (jobs, taxes, educational opportunities, culture, etc.)

Obama if he wins WILL be LIKE NAPOLEON. WEAK. Extended supply line, Hostile territory. No resupply. Constant desertions. Many rivals back behind him, waiting to pounce. All his competent subordinates gone.

How many think defense cuts in a time when Iran and Pakistan rattle sabers is politically sustainable, given the amount of lobbying defense contractors will do and the general threat perception of the public, particularly if Iran lets off a nuke, or worse?

Or that Carbon taxes in a recession are politically feasible?

Oct 21, 2008 - 10:39 pm 59. Demosophist:

I’ve experienced a number of conservatives who seem to think that Americanism is just a nice historical reference… but not really relevant to our current political situation. They view it as quaint, but anachronistic. These are conservatives, mind you. Well, Republicans anyway. I just found that odd.

By “Americanism” I mean something like Lipset and Ladd’s “founding ideology” or what they and Tocqueville called “American Exceptionalism.” It’s kind of a quaint idea, but as far as guiding us through a tough political patch… well we’d better stick to economics and finance.

The intelligentsia has promoted a counter ideology that has a knife aimed directly at the jugular of that quaint idea… and they don’t care that much about economics and finance. Well, at least they don’t see it as an opposing force that can’t be co-opted.

Whiskey has a good point, though. The loose kinds of feel good alliances that are created by virtue of ideas like “social justice” and “multiculturalism” would either be hardened into a revolutionary core, or would be tattered by the “real world” with which they’ve never had to cope until now. FDR was confronted by extremists of both the right at the left, and some that were both (like Huey Long’s coalition). None of them gained critical mass here, unlike Europe, because FDR created workfare rather than a welfare dole. As a result they didn’t seek associations with the fascistic organizations, like Coughlin, the Silver Shirts, etc. They remained peripheral.

But the US has always had an “anti-American” revolutionary core with characteristics that are unique. They are likely to mix anarchism and Marxism, for instance, as Ayers, Dorhn, and Chomsky have done. That’s the typical anti-American American. They aren’t cut out for real power, because part of their very identity is anti-power. But they can become a relatively influencial and powerful movement. Lipset predicted that there’d be a major anarchist movement in the US, and he wasn’t talking about libertarians. It never quite materialized in his lifetime, but he still thought it was coming. In part this is because we have a society that is nearly ungovernable. It’s tough to convince people to stay on the road, let alone obey the speed limits. Anyway, the point is that there’s something very American about the anti-American left… though they clearly don’t know it (except when they complain about being tagged as unpatriotic). They might be ecstatic that “one of their own” has achieved the Presidency, but they’ll never be able to join him. He must maintain the mask at all costs, and they’d blow his cover.

I’m also not sure I agree that this American Exceptionalism core hasn’t been ready to destroy its opposition. If they could, they would. But the fact is that since they’re the dominant strain they can’t really do without the recessive strain… and the latter becomes powerful from time to time. The transcendentalists like Thoreau, Emerson, and Fuller were part of this recessive strain in the American Identity. So it has always been around. But it hasn’t always been militant, and militant periods have been short lived for the most part. Again, they’re not very good at “doing stuff” especially “military type stuff.” Even the bomb throwers are usually loners, or part of a “faux organization” like the Weathers.

Will they become not just powerful in a relative sense, but “a power” in it’s own right. I doubt it. When it comes right down to it, they’re “existentially confused.” And the unconfused Saddam-like monster isn’t really part of their thing. They are unlikely to spawn such a person, without destroying him as a hatchling.

So I guess I don’t see this great polarization happening. I think they’ll try their hand at power for awhile, but after a few fumbles will give it up. And I really don’t see how “social justice” could become even more insipid than it is now without just nauseating everyone involved.

Oct 21, 2008 - 10:41 pm 60. Eggplant:

CPT. Charles said:

“Instead of worrying about losing, worry more about the wraith of the Left when they’re told…NO.”

In all seriousness, that is a worry. The moonbats have already convinced themselves that the Chosen One has been elected President. Just for a moment, assume there was a systematic bias in the opinion polls (a widespread Bradley Effect) and McCain won instead. Is there anyway the moonbats would believe that the elections were honest?

Obviously, the moonbats would go berzerk (it would be far worse than the cliff hanger election in Florida with George W. Bush versus Gore). I’m sure there would be rioting in the streets and some states would have to call out the National Guard. Of course it would be more than worth it if the Messiah was kept out of the White House.

Oct 21, 2008 - 10:45 pm 61. Dave:

Fred and Konyok and everybody else: You have got a case of the pre-fight jitters.

The election is not over and our votes are not futile. It is not only about who wins but also by how much and where.

We need to wait until the electoral dust settles and then figure out (a) enemy intentions and (b) especially enemy capabilities.

Both here and abroad, our enemies are a rather incoherent bunch. Remind me of the 1940-41 Japs. Got a great scheme to bomb Pearl Harbor and then what???????

Domestically, Obama is dependent on two groups. The black underclass and the white “uber mensch”. Usually the former is at the beck and call of the latter but is known to erupt on its own. The latter are great con artists who fantasize about how much control they really have over the course of human events.

Then throw in the corporate welfare artists and their relationship with the green jihadists. That coalition is none too stable either.

Then there is North Korea, Dien Bien Putin and the Iranian Whack Job along with what’s-his-face down in Venezuela.

What will all these folks do and how will Obama, if elected, try to cope with them?
No telling.

We just gotta wait and it is starting to fray our nerves. We’ve every right to be frightened but we must not panic.

We will see it all through, one way or the other. May take some Divine Intervention, but we shall make it after all. St Jude assures me that our cause is not lost and St Rita says OF COURSE what we want is impossible, that is why she is taking care of it. Just do our part.

All for now. Bedtime. Check in mannana.

Oct 21, 2008 - 10:51 pm 62. whiskey:

Power runs from the barrel of a gun, said Mao. In the US, Jessie Unruh said money is the mother’s milk of politics.

I don’t see Obama’s power base, running from either. He does not have a cadre of people able to fight street battles nationally to intimidate and beat people.

His money-making in the campaign is formidable, but that’s different from doling out patronage. Politics is about assembling a winning coalition, and Dems there have massive weaknesses that are worse with Obama.

Obama’s core supporters are Blacks. That’s only 12% of the population. Next come Hispanic, really Mexican origin which is 13%, according to the 2000 Census. That brings him up to 25%. Suppose it’s 2010, and the economy is terrible, many foreign threats, lots of things that have people unhappy even worse than the Hostage Crisis, Obama appears as Biden says, “weak” and “wrong.”

Who is his base? Who turns out for him, votes, to carry him and his candidates over 50%? Nationwide? Who? You can add White Yuppies, that gets him to 35%. Then what?

Napoleon left with a huge Army, but much of it was of poor quality, not French but Poles and Germans and Italians and such like. With little stake in Napoleon, likely to desert at the first hardships, and not the core of his Army. When it came to standing and fighting, most of Napoleon’s Army simply left in the retreat from Moscow. Because had, as Obama has now, little to offer them.

If you are White, and Working/Middle Class, Obama will have you as long as Moscow is sunny, warm, and there is not much fighting, Biden’s words notwithstanding, and you get money and medals. If you have hunger, cold, disease, heavy fighting, you desert. And there is not much either General no matter how grand can do about it.

Every Pole and German knew, in Napoleon’s Army, that the patronage went to the French first. They would get some spoils, but not much. Whoever was the winner of the moment had their loyalty and desertion was always an option.

Oct 21, 2008 - 10:51 pm 63. Dave:

Testing. Testing. What is happening to my efforts on this particular subject?

I keep writing, they keep disappearing. What’s up Doc?

Oct 21, 2008 - 10:56 pm 64. RDS:

Did I miss the election already? Don’t succumb to the media’s meme of Obama’s inevitability!

Remember how bad things sounded here at this site, right after the 2006 elections, about Iraq? Then the Surge happened.

I cannot believe my old home state of Pennsylvania will choose Obama.

We’re racists outside of Philly, afterall.

Murtha said so.

Oct 21, 2008 - 10:58 pm 65. Dave:

Okay, my posting problem seems to have resolved itself. Whew , what a relief.

Belmont Club could do without me, but I cannot do without the Belmont Club.

Oct 21, 2008 - 11:04 pm 66. Eggplant:

Dave said:

“Testing. Testing. What is happening to my efforts on this particular subject? I keep writing, they keep disappearing. What’s up Doc?”

Wretchard’s blog had a hiccup. I also lost a post.

Oct 21, 2008 - 11:07 pm 67. Eggplant:

Whiskey said:

“It was DEMOGRAPHICS. Which is Obama’s weak point. His margin is thin — since the biggest group, White men, are solidly against him and he has nothing to bribe/buy them off with… Obama if he wins WILL be LIKE NAPOLEON. WEAK. Extended supply line, Hostile territory. No resupply. Constant desertions. Many rivals back behind him, waiting to pounce. All his competent subordinates gone.”

It’s a lose-lose situation. B. Hussein can not succeed if elected President. He does not have the experience and the people around him are moonbats. He’ll try to do an FDR/New Deal and use socialist solutions but does not have the financial resources. The Chosen One will fall flat on his face and then the pendulum will swing the other way. The next President will be as far to the right as B. Hussein was far to the left.

Who is the scariest right winger that you can think of? No, Buchanan is too old. This new demagogue will be young, charismatic and a brilliant public speaker (probably an officer who distinguished himself in Iraq or Afghanistan). This nightmare will only get worse…

Oct 21, 2008 - 11:29 pm 68. heather:

Given that Obama’s core constituents are relatively weak in a real world,
and given that Obama has had little or no experience in anything but doling out patronage to personal friends;
and given that the economy gives him little room to live up to his promise of being everyone’s ’saviour’;
and given that the world perceives Obama as weak, and therefore there will be VERY aggressive, and Obama will have absolutely no idea what to do except to have a meeting, well???
and also, he – and his cabinet – will not know how to effectively work with the military…

Oct 22, 2008 - 12:00 am 69. It's All Over:

We know who you are and we know where you are.

All of you.

Oct 22, 2008 - 12:38 am 70. wretchard:

L3 has argued that the huge size of the pot in Washington has destablized the old continuity and incentivized a winner-take-all game. The bailout, has if anything, made the role of government bigger. And an Obama administration plans to increase the role of government even further. Thus, as the capital bloats to monstrous proportions, the struggle to intensify it will rise to vicious proportions. L3 also observed that huge and almost inexplicable sums of money have become available to Obama. That’s because Washington has become so important that the game to control it has become internationlized as well. This has been highlighted by the recent financial crisis.

Stratfor has an article describing the changes that are likely to be made to the Bretton Woods system following the current meltdown. The gist of the Stratfor piece is that the United States was and will be the linchpin of the world’s global economic. That centrality will remain. What the current crisis has changed is the confidence that Washington can manage it responsibly. What the Europeans are going to demand, according to Stratfor, is the right to co-manage America. It’s logical in a perverse way. Washington gets to rule the world, but now Europe and probably China and the rest, want an actual sovereign vote in that rule.

The Europeans are not looking to challenge the reality of American power, they are looking to increase the degree to which the rest of the world can influence the dynamics of the American economy, with an eye toward limiting the ability of the Americans to accidentally destabilize the international financial system again. The French in particular look at the current crisis as the result of a failure in the U.S. regulatory system.

And the Europeans certainly have a point. If fault is to be pinned, it is on the United States for letting the problem grow and grow until it triggered a liquidity crisis. The Bretton Woods institutions — specifically the IMF, which is supposed to serve the role of financial lighthouse and crisis manager — proved irrelevant to the problems the world is currently passing through. Indeed, all multinational institutions failed or, more precisely, have little to do with the financial system that was operating in 2008. The 64-year-old Bretton Woods agreement simply didn’t have anything to do with the current reality.

Ultimately, the Europeans would like to see a shift in focus in the world of international economic interactions from strengthening the international trading system to controlling the international financial system. In practical terms, they want an oversight body that can guarantee that there won’t be a repeat of the current crisis. This would involve everything from regulations on accounting methods, to restrictions on what can and cannot be traded and by whom (offshore financial havens and hedge funds would definitely find their worlds circumscribed), to frameworks for global interventions. The net effect would be to create an international bureaucracy to oversee global financial markets.

The bailout wasn’t intended to just get the US financial system off the hook. Companies from all over the world are going to gorge, directly or indirectly, on the wallets of American taxpayers. Taken together, these developments suggest we are entering a period with a rather dangerous dynamic. Washington is swelling to titanic proportions. This increases the power of the elite, but it also makes politics more partisan. With such vast power and sums of money at stake, the temptation to seize and hold power not just for an electoral cycle but for decades becomes almost irresistible. Simultaneously the central position of Washington in a globalized world means that Middle Eastern energy men, European, Japanese and Chinese interests — all — will demand an increasingly explicit role in the governing the US. The price for becoming the capital of the world is that that the world will seek to control Washington’s politics.

When you listen to Obama promise “change”; suggest ‘reaching out to allies’; ‘to act in cooperation with our partners’, he is sending a signal to the world that he’s ready to do business. That the office is open for trading. The effect of this will be to transform the American “red states” into a minority political influence. L3 has suggested trying to rope this runaway process in by trying to dismantle the bloated parts of Washington. For my part, I think the momentum is so great that the only chance may be to try and divvy up the huge apparatus and send some of that apparatus back to the States; thus restoring to some degree the checks and balances that may have vanished along the Potomac.

But at any rate, it will be an interesting four years. My guess is that the partisanship will get much, much worse before it gets any better. What people will be fighting over is whether the government of the people, by the people and for the people can live in a globalized world.

Oct 22, 2008 - 1:04 am 71. nowonk:

don’t want to go off the paranoia meter…but has anyone else had their computer start acting up when they started delving into the chosen one’s past searching on gaggle?

Oct 22, 2008 - 1:06 am 72. Cannoneer No. 4:

Silendo Libertatem Servo

Oct 22, 2008 - 2:23 am 73. Unsk:

To echo Wilbur-

How we got here whether Mc Cain wins or not, is that Bush, Mc Cain and other RINOs refused to tell the whole truth. Out of some warped sense of bipartisanship they refused to expose and prosecute the malignant deeds of the loony left when they found them. Left unchecked, the rage and crimes of the left were allowed to grow into the monster we see now.

Moving forward, the best way to attack the Obama monster is to tell the whole truth. Since Sarah and Joe the Plumber started attacking, more of the truth has been exposed and the situation has improved greatly. The Mc Cain campaign still can win, but they need to hit harder with the truth.

Whiskey- You are partly correct. What really happened was that after the massive LA defense cuts of Bush 1, in the wake of the S&L crisis, the banking regulators came to town and demanded a “Mark to Market” approach on all business loans. Starting in the fall of 91, If a business loan came up for renewal, it was to be marked down 25% or judged on the then rapidly declining market. Effectively all lending stopped, until the earthquake of 1-17-94, when huge insurance payouts for the damage got the economy moving again.
Not only were a lot of white aerospace engineers forced to leave, but an even greater number of well paid whites in other industries as well, whose jobs simply disappeared. And then the illegals moved in big time.

Starting with the Bush 1 era though, regulation has mushroomed since at a frantic pace, pushed mightily by huge increase in Democrats. After what Bush 1 did, there was not enough Republicans left to resist the con games and socialist maneuvers that the left has been able to push through. And the games that the Democrats have successfully pulled off since would make ACORN blush.

Oct 22, 2008 - 2:47 am 74. Gaffe Prices:

I don’t share the pessimism over this election. The model of socialism is to promote the Identity Politics Democrat Party is famous for. That falsely premised argument it more than fragmenting, its crumbling.

The poll results I hear every day are always national poll results. they always say Obama is up two (more) points (again) nationally.

Lets start by definition. Polls are the means, by which the media measures the saturation of its message.
It answers two moronic self fulfilling questions
1) Is there a black or African American candidate for president, who is a unifier and who will, because he is so uniquely intelligent, and speaks so well, and white people believe him when he is promoted as a post-racial candidate, who will bring lots of goodies like heath care, and wealth redistribution that will make peoples material situation equal and cause individual advancement to atrophy because individual incentive, and economy will atrophy in the face of impossible taxation?
2) Is this candidate Democrat?
This Identity is European. Elite bureaucrats there run peoples lives and no one can advance. But things are all “equal”.

Polling and the subsequent conclusion by Media that 0bama ascendancy is inevitable has failed because identity has shifted away from 0bama for a number of reasons:
1) Obamas race Identity is meaningless because Hillary voters are furious with him and charge him with sexism- (it is) , when asked who they will vote for, they say McCain without a second thought.
2) Identity has shifted because of two people, 1) Palin- Media and 0bama treatment of her is sexism again, Voters Identify with her, and 2) Joe the Plummer. Who Joe really might be is irrelevant, he answers the question Who is John Galt? The Identity Politics at work shift to the voter, the entrepreneur, the small businessman. The Identity Politics has shifted away from Politicos themselves to voters themselves. The Shangri-La of 0bamanic absolution Stock is lower than Frannie Mac and Feddie Mae Stock. you cannot give it away. Its worthless. Nobody wants it.

Fred says that “Some bloggers think that the elections in 2010 will stop Obama and the Democrats cold in their tracks. I think not.”

So why wait til then? 0bama will get stopped in his tracks in less than 2 weeks.

Which leads us to the less-than-variable element of this thread, and a segment of the electorate. The pessimism in fact.
Prissy just-so conservatives wax on and on about what they dread in the ‘inevitable’ 0bama admin. They talk and talk, that anything less than just-so conservatism is not worth their time.

Oddly enough the issue that bothers them most about McCain is immigration. Media fears confronting 0bamas over it. Why? They could if they wanted to. Its a non-issue thanks to them. Instead gas prices, bailouts, more gov in banking system, has people angry at Congress. Uber-Conservatives won’t be an issue and will prove McCains strategy was right. Palin turns out conservative gun owners. For example. There is a amendment on the gay marriage in Califormia, and all such initiatives, even in Oregon have turned out 60% opposition to Democrat agenda.

Democrat party is in deep, deep, reeling trouble. Even, and especially at Congressional level. they know it. just-so conservatives don’t. Their opinions demonstrate a confirmational belief (pessimism), and a preoccupation about the message of Polls, which is the inevitability of 0bama. Democrat brand is tainted and the only reason Democrat Party wanted 0bama is for turn out the vote at Polls on election day. They knew he would lose. they thought instead that they would pick up congressional seats through turnout. Now they worry about conversion of their voters to vote against Democrats at Congressional level. People are fed up with Congress and its over Feddie Mae and they know whose responsible.

Democrats must clean house to remain viable. Democrats miscalculated when they thought they could be rewarded by veering so far to the left and getting caught in the act before election day. Could we have gotten the casual revelation that the scheme at work in 0bamas power grab was “wealth re-distribution” without a voter asking him the question? Democrat Party Brand is resented by every demographic group you can name- Catholics, over 0bamas abortion policy. Women- He ran a sexist campaign. Whites- 0bama and Democrat Party ran a racist campaign. People know the names Dodd, and Meeks, and Clay, and Waters, and Franks all obstructed justice to worsen the lending crisis. All Democrats. At Congressional level. 0bama will probably win New Jersey. thats it.

Oct 22, 2008 - 3:42 am 75. James Garland:

Socialism, being parasitic in nature, would seem to be self-limiting in its ability to expand its power. It can’t expand its power too far or it kills the famous goose – she of the golden egg. It’s kind of a generalized Laffer curve. The question then would be, where is that limit?

It occurs to me that Paulson and Bernanke are perhaps striking the first blow in the incipient war against our new socialist masters. I mean, they are vastly increasing the commitments of the Treasury to the point where it would seem that it will be more difficult to initiate huge new spending programs. Perhaps this is naïve, and Obama will feel no such restraint, and will simply print money. At some point though, the exponential rate of increase in the debt service starts to overwhelm. I am not an economist so I don’t know where that tipping point is.

Oct 22, 2008 - 4:26 am 76. Ex-fetus:

“The only solution I can think of is to fight militancy itself.”
How is that a solution? Normally, solutions solve something. What does that solve?

Fred is Civil War a verbotten phrase? How about we use vigorous civil disagreement instead? VCD for short ( VHD was taken)

What most of the center and soft right are missing out on is that Ohhhhhh…..BAAMA! is not a normal politician. He is a Marxist demagogue. A Tyrant in the making. The very thing the Constitution was created to prevent. The Constitution hasn’t failed, the Judiciary has failed to uphold the Constitution.
Here is a soft(squishy?) right take on the issue;

http://townhall.com/columnists/MichaelMedved/2008/10/22/the_consequences_of_defeat

I don’t think there will be an election in 2012 if the Obamassiah wins. The law allows a President to suspend the Constitution in an emergency for 90 days, after which Congress has to vote to extend it longer. Sort of like what happened in Germany in 1933. That will make a permanent Congress possible. Have to keep a solid leadership to counter the emergency, correct?
Anyway, once that happens a VCD is the ONLY way to remove the Tyrant. Or at least history holds no examples of Tyrants stepping down and walking away.

Oct 22, 2008 - 5:50 am 77. buddy larsen:

–reading the thread from the top just now, i had to skip to the bottom here to state my admiration for L3’s 8:54 PM Oct 21. Great sentiment, excellent writing.

Oct 22, 2008 - 6:04 am 78. steveaz:

I think Gaffe’s onto something.

The problem with a lot of web posts about the election is that they rely on media reports and polls for their ledes. In effect, the web, and I mean even the conservative side of the web, is tailoring itself into a subsidiary of the mainstream media.

As long as this is the case, we have to expect that the commentariat at even conservative blogs will be infected by memes produced and hyped by liberal media, such as the assertion that Obama’s election is a done-deal.

All the pessimism and talk of armed revolution springs DIRECTLY from these media memes. So, folks, please check your opinions against the media’s popular election memes, and if they correspond to them or derive from them, then, maybe you should think twice before hitting “submit.”

Otherwise, the dreaded MSM is driving the thread with mis-informed emotion riding shot-gun, which, incidently, is Obama’s campaign in a nut-shell. I say let’s not import it and animate at Wretchard’s site.

Oct 22, 2008 - 6:57 am 79. mika2k1:

Christians and other minorities are forced to flee, leaving everything behind. Heritage stolen. A lifetime and generations of savings taken away. No protection is offered, no compensation is offered. The Iraqi government is laughing at the US administration. Same regards the Afghani government. The Afghani government giving the Chinese complete rights to the largest undeveloped copper mine in the world.

Oct 22, 2008 - 7:09 am 80. Demosophist:

Unsk:

Moving forward, the best way to attack the Obama monster is to tell the whole truth. Since Sarah and Joe the Plumber started attacking, more of the truth has been exposed and the situation has improved greatly. The Mc Cain campaign still can win, but they need to hit harder with the truth.

My take is that the polls have widened. The RCP margin now stands at about 7.6. Controlling the narrative has worked, and seems to be backed by a number of conservative elites, such as David Frum, Peggy Noonan, David Brooks, etc..

But you know all of this hyper-talk about the ascension of tyranny has happened before. The Marcusean Neo Marxists don’t seem a very likely dominant power. They will attempt to impose “speech codes” and the like, but will be stymied by the Constitution and the judiciary, unless those fellows can be replaced. That’s the real danger. I hate to say it, but I agree with Frum. The Presidential election is lost, and we should use resources not in some vain attempt to resuscitate the dead horse, but to protect the Senate and keep it from becoming fillibuster-proof. Time to throw in the towel on the Presidency, and limit the damage.

Then, in the interim, refine a message that incorporates American Exceptionalism into a point by point refutation of the Marcusean ambiguities… forcing them, and their candidate, out from behind the mask. The McCain/Palin isn’t bad, it’s just too late to make anything more than a scattered and superficial argument.

One reason that the Republicans have now lost power, is that they never came up with any solutions for a social safety net, solutions that would gradually erode the necessity for such a net. No matter how “correct” they were to argue against the size and power of the welfare state, they never came up with an alternative… one that would have expended the capital base, given market leverage to consumers of health care, etc.. That left an enormous barn door open for socialism. Then, in a period of crisis, to whom do those threatened flee?

That’s why Obama’s margins are getting bigger, not smaller. So we can at least remind people that there’s a downside to these solutions, and maybe keep the number of Democrat Senators below 60. Once they have a fillibuster-proof senate they can make pretty radical changes to the judiciary, and do other stuff that’s pretty damaging like reinstatement of the “fairness doctrine.”

Oct 22, 2008 - 7:12 am 81. Demosophist:

mika2k1:

Hasn’t the Iraqi government re-established the local police in the Nineveh Plain and Mosul? I thought they’d dispatched a thousand policemen to the province, of acceptable ethnic ties. It’s not yet a “protected area” but that’s a decent first step. (Of course, it was the Iraqi government that set the stage for the crisis by disbanding the local police force in the first place.)

Is copper ore still important? I’d have thought that metals recycling would nearly meet most of our needs by now, and that mining a new cache of copper wouldn’t confer all that much power.

Oct 22, 2008 - 7:19 am 82. mika2k1:

Demosophist,

The Iraqi gov did nothing when 3/4 of the one million Iraqi Christians were forced to free. The little they’re doing today, after the issue got some international publicity, is little more than theatrics for gullible foreigners. As for the copper, it is very important. In fact, it is critical. And China got it all.

Oct 22, 2008 - 7:30 am 83. Demosophist:

Steveaz:

The problem with a lot of web posts about the election is that they rely on media reports and polls for their ledes. In effect, the web, and I mean even the conservative side of the web, is tailoring itself into a subsidiary of the mainstream media.

As long as this is the case, we have to expect that the commentariat at even conservative blogs will be infected by memes produced and hyped by liberal media, such as the assertion that Obama’s election is a done-deal.

Frankly, I don’t think the polls are off by that much. They had no problem showing a brief McCain/Palin lead. Opinions are still somewhat tentative, so a scandal that involves the Ayers/Dorhn connection could still swing things by alot, but absent such a game changer the odds for McCain/Palin are pretty long. Obama/Biden have managed to hit a kind of “perfect storm” where people are afraid about their economic future and this drives out all other issues. Moreover, there are fewer and fewer votes to fight for. Something like a quarter of the votes will have been cast before the election rolls around. That makes it even tougher for a late October surprise to change the election outcome, no matter how scandalous it may be.

Oct 22, 2008 - 7:34 am 84. Demosophist:

mika2u1:

It’s an enormous tragedy. I haven’t given up on a safe area yet, however.

I’ll defer to you on the copper thing, but my frame of reference there was Bucky Fuller. His basic argument is that metals recycling could meet most of our needs, especially if fabrication was “ephemeralizing” (using less and less to do more and more). I figured we were far enough along that curve that controlling a large ore cache would no longer be critical. But the critical element in Bucky’s scenario (which would reduce ethnic tensions over land area as well) was a housing revolution… that placed manufactured housing at the very top of the priority list, and where we used our most advanced technology and materials. That hasn’t even begun, and so far it looks like he miscalculated on that one. If anything, we’ve now got a glut of sticks-and-mud post-and-lintel homes that no one wants.

Oct 22, 2008 - 7:45 am 85. MarkJ:

Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.
Surely some revelation is at hand;
Surely the Second Coming is at hand.
The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out
When a vast image out of “Spiritus Mundi”
Troubles my sight: somewhere in sands of the desert
A shape with lion body and the head of a man,
A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,
Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it
Reel shadows of the indignant desert birds.
The darkness drops again; but now I know
That twenty centuries of stony sleep
Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,
And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?

– William Butler Yeats, “The Second Coming”

Oct 22, 2008 - 7:57 am 86. Darren:

I would stow the “no election” ideas, the point at which you sound like a photographic negative of a Kos Diary is when you’ve gone too far. There is always the corrective of the 2010 midterms, if anything we can count on the Democrats pent-up fury to reorder society to lead them to overreach. It all comes down to what the public says at the polls, and what the politicians do based on what they think they hear.

In 1992 a divided electorate gave the Presidency to Bill Clinton, along with both houses of Congress. After the House Bank scandal, the Assault Weapons Ban and some additional illegal shennanigans, not to mention HillaryCare, the people took Congress back in a resounding fashion in 1994. The Clintonistas did not learn the right lesson from a win in a 3-way race, pushed too hard and were snapped back.

In 2004, Bush eked out a win but failed to use the next 18 months to either rein in the Republicans or materially improve things in Iraq. When he failed to do those things the GOP lost the Congress.

The question is how far to the left is the American body politic really tilting? If it’s tilting out of a desire for change but not an ideological shift then a Congress that tries to push too hard to the left will last one term. Now, I still believe that’s one term too long, but sometimes people have to experience consequences for making bad decisions.

If the electorate is truly tilting left, then we’ll get what the majority believes we deserve. It is worth noting that if things end up with less than 50% of the population paying income taxes and the majority of voters determining by proxy the amount to be extracted from the minority for the purposes determined by the majority, we have a colorable arugment for “taxation without representation”.

Popular phrase about 235 years ago. Ahem.

Oct 22, 2008 - 8:00 am 87. mika2k1:

Should read:
..were forced to flee..

==

..but my frame of reference there was Bucky Fuller..

Read this:
http://www.cnn.com/2008/TECH/10/17/buckypaper.invention.ap/index.html?eref=rss_tech

Oct 22, 2008 - 8:04 am 88. robert mcclelland:

Ex-Fetus – “everyone is laughing at me”

That includes me. We gotta win at the ballot box, the phone lines to Washington and the fax machines. If conservatives are too effete to do that, then your fantasized militant movement, if realized, would flop wors’n the Bay of Pigs.

Oct 22, 2008 - 8:30 am 89. buckets:

I would bet I fall into the category of “prissy conservative” who is apprehensive at the thought of an Obama administration. Unlike Gaffe Prices, I (and alot of us here) question whether an Obama administration would be forced to actually govern, solve problems, or clean up corruption.

I’m from Chicago, and every day I get to see a city that is going off the rails. It’s been run by Democrats since time immemorial, with predictable results. What Chicago demonstrates is that the liberal machine can hang on to power despite massive incompetence and corruption. The Dems (and Repubs, too) have built an unassailable empire of favors, welfare handouts, political cronyism, corruption, and intimidation.

Reform in Chicago is a joke. Every day, Chicago looks more and more like Gotham City from the Batman movies, but with less honest people. Even facing an often hostile press, the beast drags itself onward, impervious to change or reform. Voter fraud + a feudal system + big government = highest tax rate in the U.S., soaring crime, failing schools, and rampant corruption.

An Obama administration can offer us all this, and more. If you factor in Obama’s evident intent to “reformulate” the 1st Amendment, a reasonable person might raise an eyebrow of concern.Let’s not even talk about national security or the military.

Oct 22, 2008 - 8:41 am 90. Fred:

The Zogby organization is reporting blowout numbers for Obama at this point. They are talking about a landslide victory.

IF that is so, and if the Dems get a filibuster-proof Senate, then I believe they will be emboldened to go for it all, and try to do it in fairly short order before the 2010 elections.

Once you add a major new government entitlement program, it is virtually impossible to repeal.

The bigger question is: are foreign governments going to countenance these additional mega billions in debt tossed into the ring?

Oct 22, 2008 - 8:42 am 91. Dave:

Regarding Gaffe’s #73 and Arizona Steve’s #77:

I am a bit more pessimistic about this election than either of you.

HOWEVER: McCain can still win. The other side is practicing full-bore PSYOP votter suppression on us. That means either (a) they are not so cocksure of victory after all or (b) a clean victory is not important to them, a rigged victory is.

So either way our votes do too count. One way or the other we get to monkey wrench their plans.

(A great example of that voter suppression by PSYOP is claiming that Sarah is a bigger drag on McCain than is Bush. Those “results” were obtained by polling those known to dislike Sarah. It is intended to cause those of us who like her to feel ostracized by our (alleged) superiors who after all are the (self) annointed. That way we will be so dispirited that we will abandon the field to our Feudal Masters.

Do they get away with it or do they get a bloody nose? THAT IS UP TO US AND NOT TO THEM! FINAL ANSWER.

When this election is over, we then look over the field, find out what enemy capabilities are and then act to reduce them with the tools at our disposal.

I anticipate that it will be the “uber mensch”
who show us what we need to know on the domestic front. On the foreign front, Quien Sabe?

Stay tuned. We are a long ways from being finished.

Oct 22, 2008 - 8:47 am 92. Demosophist:

Thanks for the link, mika2k1. Can’t wait to have a bicycle made of “buckypaper,” although I could probably get the same weight advantage by just going on a diet.

Regarding the Iraqi Christians (and a few other minorities) my understanding is that most have already been forced out of Baghdad and Basra in 2006/07 and are now being forced out of Mosul. So the “ethnic cleansing” has mostly already happened, and it’s now a humanitarian effort to minimize harm to the population. They’ve been a majority in the Nineveh Plain, so making that a sanctuary is critical. We don’t hear much about this because of the news media blackout on Iraq. (Wouldn’t want to distract people from the economy/finance crisis, would we?) And McCain seems too clueless to mention it.

If we are unable to provide sanctuaries for threatened populations, whether they be Christians or the elusive “moderate Muslim” then there’s really no point to being in the Middle East. This sort of safe area, even if under some sort of UN umbrella, is critical.

Perhaps Palin would be the logical person to bring it up in a stump speech, although as far as the media is concerned she’d be speaking Greek. It’s probably elicit a large collective, “Huh?”

Oct 22, 2008 - 8:47 am 93. Dave:

Wretchard, thank you for the link to STRATFOR. Recommend everybody read it.

Seems to me that the Europeans—who are in much deeper kimchi than we are—–are proposing measures that might well replicate
the infamous Smoot-Hawley-Hall Tariff of yesteryear.

Oct 22, 2008 - 8:51 am 94. Frank:

Problem is we assume the Democrat house is unified. While temporarily it is, it will be apparent that after the election this is not the case. Dems have been winning congressional races in conservative states by running on conservative platforms. If these dems vote uber liberal they will lose their political career. Many are not as liberal as Obama, Reid, and Pelosi. I say we can expect divisions within the Dem party to start showing up 1 year after this election. We may even see Pelosi loosing her leadership position.

Oct 22, 2008 - 9:04 am 95. Ursus Maritimus:

The way to overcome demographics is to change demographics:

1) Amnesty, and count ‘years in the US’ before the amnesty as counting towards citizenship. Should get 10 million plus

2) Restore the voting rights for felons. Remove the voting rights for anyone convicted of a hate crime.

Or simply change the game:

3) Institute a new Department of Elections tasked with overseeing all elections in the US, right down to pollwatchers, and remove the right of the parties to insert pollwatchers. Staff the Department with people who has long experience in handling elections, like ACORN.

4) Any DINOs try to get stroppy, threaten them with the Lieberman treatment unless they toe the line: Unlimited funds for their opponent to the left in the primary.

5) Serve notice to all US attorneys that attempts to look to close into foreign donations to one particular campaign will result in firing, disbarrment, and felony charges for lying to an FBI agent.

Oct 22, 2008 - 9:21 am 96. Konyok:

The blue dog Democrats will become even more powerful as the swing vote in Congress. Their electoral vulnerability makes them even more receptive to communications from constituents.

Satyagraha is not a tactic, it is a strategy to direct a variety of tactics. Drinking Georgian wine is a form of Satyagraha – it is symbolic, but if Americans were to buy most of this year’s crop it would nullify Putin’s ban, which has been a terrible blow to Georgia’s economy. Selective purchasing and boycotts are just one tactic that could be employed. (Have you seen “American Carol” yet? Do you want Hollywood to employ more patriotic themes?)

Another Satyagraha tactic is writing letters. robert mcclelland is absolutely right when he points out that lacking the huevos to fax is a poor indicator of successful insurgency.

Even in this small community, if every Belmont Clubber were to balance each posting here with an e-mail to a politician, the local media outlet, the local school board or whatever, detailing a concern, a small nudge occurs in the right direction. The secret weapon that we have is the blue dog Democrats.

We cannot passively wait for the Republican party to disappoint us. We have to take to the (metaphorical) barricades ourselves. We have to confront our opponents at every step and challenge their assumptions. This has become even more important than voting.

Oct 22, 2008 - 9:28 am 97. buddy larsen:

“Card-check” is your clue to the allegiance of our apparent new majority to the Constitution.

Oct 22, 2008 - 9:43 am 98. Konyok:

buddy,

Card-check is certainly nasty, pernicious and anti-democratic, but I don’t get the constitutional significance.

Oct 22, 2008 - 9:48 am 99. buddy larsen:

The principle of the private vote, Konyok.

Oct 22, 2008 - 9:51 am 100. buddy larsen:

A coerced vote isn’t a vote, it’s only theater –a form of distraction which is not indispensable.

Oct 22, 2008 - 9:54 am 101. Konyok:

It’s like trying to assert the 1st amendment against a private entity vs against the government. Private organizations have the traditional right to govern themselves as they please. Of course, unions have an incredible influence over their members’ lives and politically, but they remain private associations.

I think that Card-check would be a classic case of overreach, especially if we experience a recession that drives unemployment up. Employers that might otherwise accept union contracts in the spirit of go along to get along would be motivated to reject them out of hand.

I agree with you philosophically, but I see it as more of a political issue and less constitutional.

BTW, I’m having more success using the “Barack Lied!” tack vis a vis his campaign finance renunciation in nudging Obama supporters towards Nader. When you get the youngsters thinking about this one it really bugs them.

Oct 22, 2008 - 10:04 am 102. buddy larsen:

What i was trying to say is that from the ‘universe-in-a-grain-of-sand’ perspective, there are clues everywhere that a large part of the electorate just has no idea, no conception whatsoever, of this country as a hard-won creation of a specific set of rigorous principles –stated for all to see in the Constitution. I know, i know, ‘what’s new, Captain Obvious?’

But –the big question for me is the ‘two-party system’ question –wherein ‘winner takes all’ is negated, and the loser of an election should rise to ‘loyal opposition’ –and work for tomorrow.

At what identifiable point does this become impossible?

Oct 22, 2008 - 10:08 am 103. Fred:

“When you get the youngsters thinking about this one it really bugs them.”

Konyok,

Expect more of them to become disillusioned in the coming four years.

Since you live in Colorado, did you know that your state is one of the battleground states that Zogby is indicating a widening lead for Obama?

I used to live in Colorado many years ago (1977-79)in Gunnison when I attended Western State College, before returning East to transfer to UNH. Back then Colorado was a solid Republican and conservative place. No more. One of my wife’s co-workers just relocated from here (Rochester, NH) to Denver. This woman is a speech therapist and she’s told my wife via e-mail that Denver is a very, very young town (in terms of age demographics) and is heavily Obama territory.

Oct 22, 2008 - 10:13 am 104. buddy larsen:

Konyok, re your 10:04, i meant, in the heart where your respect for your fellow citizen should bar you from such intrusion as card-check, just as the Law bars you from taking his wallet, or his life. Card check crosses the Rubicon, if you will (keeping with the Roman theme above). Speaking of crossing the Rubicon, it’s the military budget which a lot of this strange money coming into the Obama campaign is aimed at, don’t you think?

Oct 22, 2008 - 10:17 am 105. Roderick Reilly:

“”"”"”it always carries the risk that political victories will be turned into a period of political occupation”"”"”"

To some degree, it’s already that way. Washington’s bureaucracy views Republican administrations as occupiers, and Democratic ones as liberators.

Oct 22, 2008 - 10:22 am 106. buddy larsen:

Oil down 5 to 67 –i yam gettin’ moidered and i love it –how weird –

Oct 22, 2008 - 10:23 am 107. buddy larsen:

Roderick, they sure managed to turn the Bush admin into a thin veneer of lite varnish, didn’t they. Except for foreign policy, where he has kept the Rooskie out of the western side of the Persian Gulf, forestalling a far graver situation than we might as a whole have imagined to date.

Oct 22, 2008 - 10:28 am 108. Roderick Reilly:

“”"”"”Our corporate executive class has shifted dramatically Leftward the past few decades. They’ve learned you go along to get along, and they’ve handed themselves an ever larger piece of the pie. Their obscene wealth has corrupted them and turned them into “citizens of the world,” not Americans. Just like Obama. Just like the increasingly vile Bill Gates.”"”"”"”

Agreed. When CEOs who’ve done nothing more than “run” a major corporation, without ever having invented any thing or process, or even created the company, get multi-hundred million dollar compensation packages, they couldn’t care less about the fate of the corporation and its employees. They’ve effectively isolated themselves from any bad consequences. Gates does not fit into this category as the founder of Microsoft, but he has become a negative phenomenon. When people like Gates, Buffet and Soros saunter off to Davos to propose new ways to sabotage capitalism and free enterprise, they are solidifying their own positions by making it more difficult for “new money” to challenge them. Such men (and women) are becoming as big a menace as dictaors.

Oct 22, 2008 - 10:28 am 109. Roderick Reilly:

“”"”"”Disgustingly vile people like David Duke will take advantage of the situation. A Barack Obama administration will be anti-white.”"”"”

A concern of mine, too. Liberals who decry the “far right” are talking about conservatives in Congress and talk radio and blogs — people who are generally only just to the right of center by American standards. Such “liberals” (a misnomer) who make these accusations have no idea what the real far right is.

Oct 22, 2008 - 10:32 am 110. Konyok:

buddy #101

That’s the question of questions.

At what point do the compromises necessary to accomodate messy, venal, contentious human beings invalidate the ideal concepts of our republic? Despite corruption and contingency we have always managed to keep just enough of that ideal alive to keep our politics tethered to a rough approximation of the original intent. An analog to Smith’s invisible hand?

I think that Wretchard’s point about centrism is spot on.

Although we can see it as utter fraud, the Obama campaign’s devotion to the Middle Class is a tribute to our center of gravity. The left has abandoned its traditional working class rhetoric – just last election Jean Francois was “fighting for working families.” Once the luster of The One has faded, they will have to patronize this constituency or lose all – that means moving to the center.

Oct 22, 2008 - 10:33 am 111. peterike:

I think the polls are close enough to be correct. Though this fella disagrees mightily:

http://wizbangblog.com/content/2008/10/21/gallup-and-new-coke.php

It will be interesting to see what happens if the O goes into Election Day with his “landslide” meme and then somehow loses. Thirty seconds later we will be flooded with “stolen election,” “Diebold,” street riots, on and on. The hood will again go up in flames. A close McCain victory will be a nightmare, but a McCain blowout is surely not in the cards.

If the Obama blowout happens, the Dems I think will move very, very quickly. They’ve even already said they will start creating legislation before he’s inaugurated! In effect, they will abandon governing the country for a few months while preparing a massive blast of Leftism to hit us fast and hard. Talk about a first 100 days!

If they get their super-majority how can it be stopped?

I don’t think they will concern themselves a fig about how much anything “costs.” They never have. Besides, there are plumbs ripe for the picking. Massive new taxes on oil companies, if not outright nationalization. Taxes on the evil drug companies. Taxes on 401(k)s. Taxes on “the rich” with appropriate loopholes for their rich Leftist friends. It goes on and on. Any successful industry in America can get reamed for money. And the Dems are such economic illiterates they will not understand that taking 50 billion out of Exxon this year means you won’t even get close to 50 billion out of them next year. (I’m just guessing at the number, but you get the point.)

And once talk radio is shut down and blogs are controlled, who is going to organize any kind of resistance?

These things can happen very quickly. If O is what some of us fear he is, I think we’ll know within weeks if not days. In fact, if not within hours. His inauguration speech might already reveal all the cards.

And I can only imagine how disgusting his inauguration is going to be. What exactly will an American coronation ceremony look like? Other than the big fat smiles on all the media talking heads.

Oct 22, 2008 - 10:36 am 112. Roderick Reilly:

“”"”"”Roderick, they sure managed to turn the Bush admin into a thin veneer of lite varnish, didn’t they.”"”"”"

Yes, precisely my point, Buddy. Even agencies like the CIA appear rife with saboteurs. The State Department? Fuggiddaboudit! Ditto most other federal entities. Even the DoD is heavily infested. Can you say “Colin Powell,” or “Wesley Clark?” Those two are just a tip of the soldier-bureaucrat iceberg, latter-day George P. McLellands all.

Oct 22, 2008 - 10:37 am 113. buddy larsen:

Roderick, that’s why we can expect little, i’m afraid, from the FBI investigation of ACORN. Here we are, worrying about a coup, and maybe the coup has already jogged on past us and is far down the road.

Maybe it’s time to sell, retire, get into our plaid bermuda shorts & sandals, and start hanging out at the domino parlor, hey?

Oct 22, 2008 - 11:01 am 114. Konyok:

fred,

I’m in the thick of it everyday. You don’t know how long it’s been since I’ve been able to sit down and have an unconstrained political conversation with a fellow conservative. When I’m out and about, I feel downright subversive.

buddy,

I have come to accept it as a given that the totality of freedom in the United States is one big, happy, bewildering mess. We would like to envision our republic peopled by serious toga clad citizens just brimming with virtue and civic spirit. I bless L3 for his rational solutions, but there are so many vectors at work, so many degrees of freedom, if you will, that things will never resolve themselves in an orderly manner.
We are the most free people ever to walk the Earth. We are free to explore just about every possible avenue of knowledge. We are also free to ignore it all and obsess over the latest misadventures of our favorite Hollywood starlet. As much as we would like to, we simply can’t grab the electorate and shake them to their senses.

I don’t know where the line is, or if it even exists, between viable democracy and vulnerable chaos. I do recognize that our political life is as much theater as solemn deliberation. I also recognize that if I want my beliefs to have currency in the marketplace of ideas, I have to promote them. (I have never found solace in “I told you so.” Exquisite ideological purity is thin gruel best saved for shut ins and recluses.)

So, I’m not above wearing a Nader pin and engaging the youngsters I meet at bus stops. I want Obama to lose.

Does that contaminate the sand grain and hence the universe? I dunno, that’s above my pay grade. I will tell you that I do draw a thick, unmistakable line between rough and tumble political tricksterism and the darker impulses.

Oct 22, 2008 - 11:01 am 115. phil g:

Count me as very sceptical regarding the pole data and yes I think there could be a huge problem if these poles are wrong or worse cooked and McCain wins in spite of them. This discussion thread would then be picked up by the Dems and they’d be plotting as to how to overthrow the result or work to make the McCain administration fail. Either way the left has signaled that they’re going to make it a tough go for the next several years.

Oct 22, 2008 - 11:07 am 116. buddy larsen:

Konyok, i agree, three cheers for optimism –it’s free for one thing, if we can manage to will it up.

And like the great RR always demonstrated, it is in itself a very powerful force.

Oct 22, 2008 - 11:09 am 117. buddy larsen:

Two examples of optimism: (1) “Everything is possible, the world is my oyster!” (2) “I hope the guards give me an extra crust of bread this week!”

Oct 22, 2008 - 11:12 am 118. Konyok:

buddy,

Just to keep my bases covered I just reread Ivan Denisovich.

Oct 22, 2008 - 11:16 am 119. Orphaned Son of Liberty:

Short of advocating revolution or civil war (or both?) what can be done? Take a look at what Science Fiction writer Orson Scott Card advocates in:

http://www.ornery.org/essays/warwatch/2008-10-12-1.html

“We need a constitutional amendment declaring that no court, federal or state, can strike down or alter any law passed by a legislative body except when it contradicts the plain language of the applicable constitution, as understood at the time of passage. “

Oct 22, 2008 - 11:16 am 120. buddy larsen:

i read Ivan Denisovich one summer, mostly sitting in a lawn chair under the sun on the heliport of an offshore drilling rig near the equator, and damn near froze to death.

Oct 22, 2008 - 11:42 am 121. David M:

The Thunder Run has linked to this post in the – Web Reconnaissance for 10/22/2008 A short recon of what’s out there that might draw your attention, updated throughout the day…so check back often.

Oct 22, 2008 - 11:50 am 122. Konyok:

I invite Belmont Clubbers to join me in a bit of naughty fun.

Write a letter to the editor of your local paper from the perspective of a disgruntled moonbat complaining about Barack Obama’s decision to break his promise to stick to the public campaign finance limits. (”As a concerned moonbat … ” Does the formulation look familiar? We’ve all seen the letters from purported Republicans complaining about McSame.) Use your imagination to get the tone just right. It is “man bites dog” irresistible.

I just did, and I feel much better for it. Be sure to e-mail it in order to give them time to call to verify and print it in the next couple of weeks.

Oct 22, 2008 - 11:54 am 123. Konyok:

Blast from the past:

http://www.cyberussr.com/rus/repin-cos.html

Oct 22, 2008 - 11:55 am 124. Jrod:

Buddy @ #105
Read an Investment bank report (there’s a couple still in business) last week that stated Chavez needs oil to be >$95/bbl to keep his Bolivarian revolution alive.

Oct 22, 2008 - 12:17 pm 125. buddy larsen:

Great painting –reminds how much sweeter is raw victory than any of its handmaidenly equivocations.

Oct 22, 2008 - 12:20 pm 126. whiskey:

Wretchard, and most of the commenters here, I think you miss my point, and again misunderstand FDR.

Yes, Wretchard, it is quite true that Obama is open for business, and likely will accommodate the Europeans and Chinese and Russian interests. That large amounts of money will flow into his control.

BUT … this country, according to the 2000 Census, breaks down to 12% Black, 13% Hispanic, and 75% White. While those numbers have changed in 8 years, not that much.

FDR’s coalition, and the reason for his strength, was “Socialism for the Majority” which was then and now, overwhelmingly White Middle/Working class. It’s why he got the vote majority over and over and over again.

HOW does Obama purpose to gain an FDR majority? Entitlement programs? For WHO? Or as Lenin would say, Who? Whom?

Whoever CAN produce the maximum amount of government goodies to the majority of the population wins. Joe the Plumber “works” politically because Whites know that any government benefits DON’T GO TO THEM. They go to … minorities. Blacks and Hispanics. They have since the breakdown of the FDR coalition in 1968.

NO MATTER how much money flows into DC from abroad, it will not be enough for Obama to BUY the loyalty of the majority of the population. By definition, entitlement programs will be for minorities, excluding the White majority, and creating a huge new social conflict. Welfare reform was popular, because the White majority did not get any, it all went to minorities.

Obama and his allies could create a transformational moment, by jettisoning Affirmative Action, and creating all sorts of goodies for the White Majority, with closed borders and all the other attributes of FDR. Of course, his coalition means he cannot do that, or any of those measures.

Thus, the future he holds is that of … Indonesia.

Wretchard you have seen the periodic anti-Chinese riots by the majority population there, angry at being shut out of commercial and governmental power, with the rise of Jihadist Islam as the lever by which the poor majority can pry out the closed-off Chinese Diaspora minority which controls much of Indonesian life.

I would submit to you, that Obama’s “plan” such as it is … resembles that, or perhaps East Africa with it’s Indian diaspora taking the place of the Chinese one. Heck Obama’s helping cousin Raila Odinga impose Sharia on Kenya, with violence the recourse when Odinga lost, is part of that model.

Much of Islam’s political appeal is that of a unifying pry-bar to lever elites out of power. I agree with the poster above that GOP White Populism could turn remarkably ugly, though I am more optimistic that it will be syncretic Jacksonian, if for no other reason that many, many Whites have Asian, Hispanic, Black, and other minority family members, through intermarriage and adoption. Sarah Palin’s husband after all is part Eskimo, and that is fairly common.

But even Jackson had his price.

Oct 22, 2008 - 12:30 pm 127. buddy larsen:

Joe the Plumber was on Hannity & Colmes the other night. Colmes was waxing wroth that JtP couldn’t seem to get it that he too might get some free money from Obama –when JtP interrupted (i’m sure this is you-tubed somewhere) to say (+/-), “But you see, I don’t want it. I don’t want anything taken from somebody else’s work and sweat.”

It was a fine, fine moment in television and truth. Hope it gets around. No wonder they hate Joe.

Oct 22, 2008 - 12:37 pm 128. Clioman:

One can only hope that when Obama’s brownshirts take power, they put the MSM up against the wall first.

Oct 22, 2008 - 12:38 pm 129. Konyok:

Not victory per se, but the naughty joy of “putting it to the man.”

The tables have turned. We are no longer “the man,” we are now the gadflies, the freedom fighters, the Civilian Irregular Information Group. (Hat tip: Cannoneer No. 4, a finer patriot never put fingers to keyboard.) We must expand from sharing views to taking action to combat our opponents and their memes at every opportunity that presents itself.

We shall tweak them on the beaches, we shall tweak them on the landing fields …

This is cyber Satyagraha.

Oct 22, 2008 - 12:39 pm 130. buddy larsen:

ha ha HA! (*gasp*) too funny –tweak them, i say!

Oct 22, 2008 - 12:47 pm 131. buddy larsen:

Traders are calling it the “Obama tape” –that’s the old-fashioned ticker tape that those 1929 guys were reading in the old black & white movies right before they jumped out de window. Down another 500, with new fears over Argentine & Hungarian currency.

USA is for a fact gotten too big –by accident –just as host and others speculate here.

Oct 22, 2008 - 1:01 pm 132. slade:

USA is for a fact gotten too big

Or too big for its britches.

In pursuit of regulatory malfeasance, the emails come crawling out of the digital corners:

S&P Officials:

Official #1: Btw (by the way) that deal is ridiculous.

Official #2: I know right…model def (definitely) does not capture half the risk.

Official #1: We should not be rating it.

Official #2: We rate every deal. It could be structured by cows and we would rate it.

Oct 22, 2008 - 1:07 pm 133. slade:

And really, somebody should volunteer to take Nouriel Roubini bowling.

Oct 22, 2008 - 1:11 pm 134. VA Creole:

Leo Linbeck III:

4. Influence Reform: Outlaw lobbies – all of them – regardless of whether they are used for businesses, NGOs, grievance groups, or any other interests. That would eliminate a lot of the corruption in government.

Oct 22, 2008 - 1:11 pm 135. buddy larsen:

35,000 registered lobbyists in DC. Divided by 535 = is only 65 lobbyists per congressperson. that’s not so bad –there’ll be 32 on each side of every issue, and 1 with the biggest check.

*********
(continue conversation, add imaginary punchline)

S&P Officials:

Official #1: Btw (by the way) that deal is ridiculous.

Official #2: I know right…model def (definitely) does not capture half the risk.

Official #1: We should not be rating it.

Official #2: We rate every deal. It could be structured by cows and we would rate

Official #1: Did you hear that 35 or 40 trillion dollars of hard-won wealth has evaporated out of the world economy over this?

Official #2: No shit? Wow. OK, see ya tomorrow–

Official #1: Okeedokee.

Oct 22, 2008 - 1:35 pm 136. slade:

Another S&P email gem from 2006 (!) (paraphrased):

It’s a good thing we’ll be retired when this “house of cards” finally falls.

Oct 22, 2008 - 1:56 pm 137. steveaz:

Orphaned,
Orson Scott Card’s recommendation makes sense. He is a pretty darned smart guy.

Here’s another proposal: give every ‘poor’ citizen $3000 for the sole purpose of moving. It’ll cover the U-Haul rental, the packers, the cardboard boxes, the packing tape and the gasoline to get the trapped poor out of their rotting cities.

Imagine how that’ll effect the race hustlers in rusting cities like Detroit and Chicago. When their trapped constituencies taste freedom, their rackets will deflate like a wet circus tent in the rain.

When you’re pruning a diseased tree, you need to make your cuts deep. I’m tired of nibbling around the edges of urban blight. Let’s get out our pruning saws and our wound-heal gum and get busy – time’s a wastin’.

I’d love to see the ground on which legislators from the rust belt oppose this particular subsidy. I’m convinced the last thing they want to do is empower folks to make a change in their lives.

The televised debate over the “U-Haul, We Pay” idea i presented above will tell all. And, if the fund’s beneficiaries try to use the money to buy some chintzy consumer product, like a new CD player, then we’ll all know where their priorities really are.

Oct 22, 2008 - 2:24 pm 138. Konyok:

steveaz,

I’ve seen something real similar to that in operation.

Several small towns that I know well in the western US have adopted refugees from Katrina. They’ve integrated into mostly whitebread communities an awful lot better than I would have expected. (Of course, there’s a lot of self selection in the sample, but, then, that’s really what it’s all about, isn’t it?)

Oct 22, 2008 - 2:39 pm 139. Orphaned Son of Liberty:

steveaz

Great idea and a hell of a lot cheaper than, say a Federal Banking Crisis Bailout Package… Naw it would never fly. Libs are to invested in an aggrieved constituency. Programs that take victims out of their “special” status as petitioner in need of the care by their betters never get a real shake, do they?

Oct 22, 2008 - 3:13 pm 140. Bart Hall (Kansas, USA):

Smoot-Hawley? We don’t need any idiots in Congress to lay an egg like that. Have y’all ever done any halfway serious international business?

More to the point, do you know what a Letter of Credit is? And do you know that most international sellers are extremely reluctant to honor an LC? Not because they don’t trust the putative buyer … they don’t trust his *bank.*

International trade is falling apart over LCs. The Baltic Dry Index — a good commoditised proxy for the cost of ocean shipping — has dropped 88% in four months. There is now a massive surplus of dry carrier capacity, meaning that loads seeking a ride have fallen off a cliff.

The US is likely to do much better than most other places if international trade craters, and the geo-political implications of *that* are more than a bit daunting.

Lastly, keep your eyes on Mexico. Almost 40% of their federal budget — mostly used to purchase social peace — came from state owned oil revenues. These have now dropped by 55% in four months.

Worse yet, production from their oil fields is crashing because those fields (even Cantarell) are pretty much finished.

A successful Chavez-led communist revolution in Mexico in 2009 or 2010 would not surprise me in the least. And I’m a known optimist !

Oct 22, 2008 - 3:47 pm 141. peterike:

Steveaz, your idea has already been tried. There was an article in the Atlantic about it a few months back which should be pretty easy to find.

Some changes in gov’t housing rules encouraged people to move from the big inner cities to Tier 2/3 type cities. The result? Huge surges in crime in those once relatively safe places. Neighborhoods ruined.

In other words, it’s a disaster. The plan worked well for a short time when the motivated self-selectors took the real opportunity offered to better themselves. But that’s a thin crust at the top of a dysfunctional swamp. After the crust pealed off, the swamp creatures followed.

You can take the thug out of the hood, but you can’t take the hood out of the thug.

Oct 22, 2008 - 3:48 pm 142. buddy larsen:

Mexican Reds very nearly repealed the last election, if y’all remember. Close-run thing. The loser took over the center of Mexico City, with his revolutionistas blocking movement with tent cities, for months after the election. Hugo on the border? The narco wars are already there, and he’s in it deep –FARC records prove it. These birds have no weapon too low to deploy.

Urban permanent criminal class, another Democratic gift to America; it didn’t exist in the 50s and 60s. Back then, before LBJ’s armies of social workers deployed to invalidate the black family man, black folks were making steady gains into the middle class, bootstrapping by themselves, with pride and honor.

Don’t believe me –read up on it your own self.

Our best ally, President Uribe of Colombia, can’t get unstuck a hugely symbolic as well as economically vital trade deal because of Lucky Luciano’s Baltimore boss’s daughter Nancy Pelosi’s cooked ‘union’ baloney. Pelosi & Chavez –a pincer movement on free Latin America.

Let’s not lend a trade hand to anyone fighting the narco-terrorists, for gosh sakes! Let’s ask, WWSD? (”what would soprano do?”)

Oct 22, 2008 - 4:21 pm 143. buddy larsen:

Reds, Jihadis, Mobsters, Democrats, who the hell do they think is gonna support them once they tip the old golden goose over?

Oct 22, 2008 - 4:25 pm 144. buddy larsen:

American Democrats have very nearly ruined the human endeavor on the planet Earth. Only they could have done it –only a loose, berserk cannon careening around the poop deck by the wheel of the ship of ships could have done it.

Oct 22, 2008 - 4:41 pm 145. F451_2.0:

“We will have no truce or parley with you, or the grisly gang who work your wicked will.You do your worst- and we will do our best.”

Winston Churchill

You still have two weeks.

Time enough.

Oct 22, 2008 - 4:47 pm 146. slade:

Time enough.

Don’t forget to take a closer look at your local Congress-critter.

Oct 22, 2008 - 4:54 pm 147. steveaz:

Peterike,
Perversely, the fact that crime went up in the abandoned ruins proves the system worked.

The smart, law-abiding folks who took their chance to skidaddle left behind the not so smart ones who didn’t. That the hanger’s on’s, who, incidently, are of all races, resorted to perpetrating crimes on each other after the exodus indicates something about Darwin’s theories, primate behaviors and feedback loops, if you ask me.

I say, give the good folks in the old cities one more chance to make a move, before their rusting manufacturing base dissolves and they attain the 50% unemployment statistic of a district of Gaza. The writing is on the wall.

Then, what next, after the exodus? Heck, Chicago’s already got its own Hyde Park Arafats and their “White-Satan”-spewing mullahs. Seems like they’re off to a winning start if they want to mimic a Hamas-ian government model.

Maybe if we ask real nice, the EU will subsidize the Chicago’s next ‘humanitarian’ project.

Oct 22, 2008 - 5:08 pm 148. mika2k1:

If we are unable to provide sanctuaries for threatened populations, whether they be Christians or the elusive “moderate Muslim” then there’s really no point to being in the Middle East.
==

Demosophist,

It’s not just Iraq. It’s everywhere in the Jihadi world.

As long as the Jihadis have the West by the balls, they will continue to do whatever they wish, with little resistance. That is why it is imperative to end our dependence on oil, and put an end to this fake war that is going on in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Oct 22, 2008 - 5:09 pm 149. Orphaned Son of Liberty:

steveaz,

Think peterike was saying crime in the tier 2/3 cities shot up as their new denizens took up residences… i.e. the wolves moved out to prey on the sheep. Still it would seem easier to round up the wolves in that setting than in their natural habitat which would lead to a desirable steady state. So what was the long term outcome, peterike????

Oct 22, 2008 - 5:56 pm 150. peterike:

So what was the long term outcome, peterike????

Long term outcome? This isn’t some tale of woe from the heyday of the Great Society. This is happening NOW.

So I hunted down the article. Those interested can read for themselves.

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200807/memphis-crime

This bit sums up the problem, which is flying totally under the MSM radar, naturally.

According to FBI data, America’s most dangerous spots are now places where Martin Scorsese would never think of staging a shoot-out—Florence, South Carolina; Charlotte-Mecklenburg, North Carolina; Kansas City, Missouri; Reading, Pennsylvania; Orlando, Florida; Memphis, Tennessee.

What the heck. As long as the streets of New York are safe, let the rest of the country go to hell. So sayeth the overlords.

Oct 22, 2008 - 6:10 pm 151. Leo Linbeck III:

W,

L3 has suggested trying to rope this runaway process in by trying to dismantle the bloated parts of Washington. For my part, I think the momentum is so great that the only chance may be to try and divvy up the huge apparatus and send some of that apparatus back to the States; thus restoring to some degree the checks and balances that may have vanished along the Potomac.

I’m not sure our two approaches are mutually exclusive. For instance, the idea of putting Congress “on the road” is a nod toward your suggestion of divvying up the Leviathan.

However, your post made me realize that I may be thinking too small. Perhaps major departments – State, Defense, Treasury, Commerce, etc. – can be dispatched to other States. There is actually an existing model for this sort of approach: the Federal Reserve Bank.

The Fed is actually a system of 12 regional banks with 25 branches. The New York Fed acts as a sort of “first among equals,” for three primary reasons: a) its President is a permanent member of the Federal Open Market Committee; b) it has the largest asset base, since it is the regional that serves Wall Street; and c) it is the home of the Board of Governors.

Fact is, there is no good reason in today’s world of air travel and telecommunications for all of our political institutions to be based in one city. Proximity has flipped from being an asset to being a liability.

Most organizations try to co-locate important functions so as to maintain close contact that leads to a more cohesive culture. The effect is true in Washington, but the problem is that the cohesive culture is corrupted by cash and cronyism (nice alliteration, eh?). If we want to break that culture, we need to break the proximity effect.

The culture in Washington is supported by Washington: the Georgetown set, the media, and the lobby. These people all live together in the city, socialize together, send their kids to the same schools, attend the same events, etc. Any new entrants to this system are disadvantaged by the fact that they are outsiders, and the price of admission to the “cool crowd” is conformity to the culture of concupiscence and contempt for conservatives (again!). Politicians are social beings, and the need to belong overwhelms their original intentions.

So let’s break up the monopoly and literally send government back to the States. Here’s my suggested allocation:

Defense: San Diego (a lot of it’s there already, and turns our attention eastward)
State: Miami (plenty of empty condos on the beach for the diplomats)
Treasury: New York (where it is already)
Justice: Chicago (keeps travel costs low for future investigations)
Agriculture: Omaha (surrounded by customers)
Commerce: San Francisco (easier access to China)
Energy: Houston (home of the energy industry)
HHS: Minneapolis (home of the medical device industry)
Education: Boston (it’s hopeless anyway)
Homeland Security: Atlanta (big airport, CDC)
Interior: Denver (closer to all the land that has to be managed)
Labor: Memphis (the end of unions)
Veterans Affairs: Honolulu (easier to staff)
Transportation: Seattle (change the focus to technology)
HUD: Dallas (lots of real estate developers)
EPA: Cleveland (start at the source)
US Trade Representative: Las Vegas (that’ll lower trade barriers!)

Anyway, despite my attempts at levity, this is a serious idea worth exploring, IMHO.

It may seem like an impossible task. But so did slaying Smaug.

Now, where did I put that damn ring?

L3

Oct 22, 2008 - 6:14 pm 152. Leo Linbeck III:

One revision:

Transportation: Los Angeles (car dominated, like all practical transportation solutions).

L3

Oct 22, 2008 - 6:18 pm 153. buddy larsen:

Has former President of the United States Jimmy Carter –now that Hugo Chavez is an active military ally of a Eurasian military superpower openly declared as at cold war against the USA –yet apologized for almost singlehandedly installing him in power?

Has he?

Oct 22, 2008 - 7:26 pm 154. steveaz:

Buddy,
“Has former President of the United States Jimmy Carter [..] yet apologized”

Our system of democratic accountability has definitely broken down. It’s funny how celebrities of the “democratic” party always seem to be grappling for the levers when democracy collapses.

Coincidence? Imagine an aging President Reagan dignifying the Bolivar’s by certifying their latest Pharaoh for “the International Community.” Wouldn’t happen. Ever.

What balderdash!

Oct 22, 2008 - 7:53 pm 155. buddy larsen:

Steveaz, no it wouldn’t happen with RR. But then, Carter considers himself an honorary Latino, having learned the Spanish for “Here, please take the Panama Canal, it would look SO cute with the PRC People’s Liberation Army wearing civvies and running it for you!”

Oct 22, 2008 - 10:27 pm 156. Ben Franklin:

Part of the problem is that fewer and fewer people of voting age are old enough to remember Jimmy Carter. If you became politically aware around the age of twenty, as a lot of people do, then you would have to be 47 to have a very good grasp of what those times were like and why.

The wealth we have generated since Carter has been staggering. There is now a whole class of people who never work a day in their lives and live off the wealth accumulated by previous generations. They do not know how to produce anything themselves. Add to that the number of people who WIll not produce anything and live off welfare or have benefits handed to them that they haven’t earned and you have a recipe for disaster.

Everyone feels they are entitled to have their way about everything… which of course cannot happen. Something has to give and the first thing that goes is civility.

A friend of mine recently moved to France and it is shocking how much the middle class there is like our underclass here. No one wants to work. They all game the system and try to informally attach themselves to other people who ARE productive so that they can get benefits from both their partners and the government. There are few marriages and lasting attachments and there is no philosophical basis that underpins the country. There are no limits to what the government can do.

Every society has to decide how to handle its ignorant and indolent. Through much of history they would be rounded up and used for canon fodder or sent to grind their bones down building monuments to the king. Now we bribe them to be good. But the bribes have to be bigger and bigger while the appreciation is less and less and less and less is expected in return. Eventually they come to feel that they are entitled to all of these things.

They have discovered they can vote themselves a share of your possessions instead of having to break into your house and steal them. Imagine their delight! Our society has sanctioned this approach and they feel no shame in applying force to achieve their goals no matter how large or how trivial. They will just as easily demand your child be conscipted for comunity service, or demand you spend time separating your trash as they will call for a fairness doctrine, or an increase in taxes, or for a pony at every birthday party, or for a ban on whatever the fad of the moment is… transfats, smoking, free speach, guns. It is all of a piece. Their thirst to control what others do and what others have cannot be slaked. All of the safeguards afforded by the constitution have been systematically dismantled. On what basis can we refuse them?

The only solution is that they must be shamed and humbled. The most likely way this will occur is with another disastrous presidency such as Carter’s so that a new generation can learn the same lessons all over again. If we had a functioning school system where the history curriculum did more than indoctrinate children into left-wing dogma then this wouldn’t be necessary. But when “men” like Bill Ayers populate the ranks of our academia there is no way to avoid disasters like this. If we can’t learn the results of tyranny and market interference in the classroom then we are doomed learn these lessons in the real world.

Gravity would still be just as strong a force even if it weren’t recognised as such by academia. Just as immutable is the fact that no society can reward idleness and intrigue without breeding even more of it.

Oct 23, 2008 - 12:28 am 157. Gaffe Prices:

Leo Linbeck III

Great Idea! And I think its realistic and feasible. LBJ accomplished it, in Florida and Texas with NASA. He got the idea from Jules Verne

Oct 23, 2008 - 8:10 am 158. buddy larsen:

Gravity would still be just as strong a force even if it weren’t recognised as such by academia –don’t give ‘em any ideas for a new hate campaign! “Down with Gravity!” –oops, “Up with Gravity!” Hmm, tough slogan –structural problem –oh well, no movement now!

Oct 23, 2008 - 11:39 am 159. buddy larsen:

Jules Verne? The guy that wrote the Kirk Douglas movie?

Oct 23, 2008 - 4:30 pm 160. Thomas Jackson:

When the average American sees his rights being trampled on by the Obamaists no amount of lies will hide the truth nor will the Obamaists smears protect them from the wraith of America’s whose pensions have disappeared; jobs evaporated; and livihoods destroyed due to socialism run amok.

By the way the Japanese believed their “spirit” could trump America’s industrial and material superiority. They were wrong. Miscalculations are the cause of disasters, because people believe their own lies and fantasies.

And who can believe in socialism and not be addicted to fantasies?

Oct 23, 2008 - 6:01 pm 161. buddy larsen:

good post, Stonewall –

Oct 23, 2008 - 8:34 pm 162. someone:

“amount to be extracted from the minority for the purposes determined by the majority, we have a colorable arugment for “taxation without representation”.

Popular phrase about 235 years ago. Ahem.”

That’s why I favor a vote being weighted in proportion to the marginal rate. “No taxation without proportional representation!”

Oct 26, 2008 - 7:06 pm 163. someone:

“Problem is we assume the Democrat house is unified. While temporarily it is, it will be apparent that after the election this is not the case.”

This all goes full circle. If you want an example of what happens when the Democrats control all branches of government, look to Illinois. They have fractioned and fought each other to the point of gridlock.

Oct 26, 2008 - 7:12 pm

Sorry, comments for this entry are closed at this time.