43 Comments

1. Phil:

Sometimes our enemies know us best.

Nov 5, 2008 - 2:18 pm 2. Marcus Auerlius:

I blogged about this too and I dare say Russia is playing a clever game here. My recollection is Obama promised to discontinue SDI development & deployment, so Russia makes this threat about putting missiles on Poland’s door unless SDI is discontinued and when Obama follows through Russia can claim a victory and most likely Obama, Gaffeomatic, and the Obamatons will say their christ (lower case – note christ is Greek for the annointed one) defused a foreign policy crisis.

http://bloggerbeer.blogspot.com/2008/11/russian-threat-in-corner-pocket.html

Nov 5, 2008 - 2:25 pm 3. Brock:

Marcus makes good points. Of course, Obama could seek to prove that he won’t back down from Russia and keep SDI in place, in which case Russia is no worse off strategically but Obama is hurt politically as the anti-war/appeasnik branch of his coalition starts to splinter away.

Either way Russia gets a weaker USA, either at the military level or the political level.

Nov 5, 2008 - 2:40 pm 4. Pelted:

Of course they are wrong. Obama is is a mainstream left-center guy, endorsed and/or advised by people like Buffet, Rubin, Summers, and Powell. This is not exactly the Che Guevara brigade, people. Heck, I would not be at all surprised if he keeps Gates on as Secretary of Defense. He might even offer McCain a position in his administration, though McCain won’t take it. So feel free to vent, but understand that in the end it’s all malarkey. The people across the world who are happiest are not our enemies. Al Queda is going to find it a he** of a lot harder to recruit candidates to go bomb a country with a leader whose middle name is Hussein. It’s just a psychological fact, and if you refuse to acknowledge it, that’s just silly and stubborn. This election has completely upended the prejedices the world has against America. People in Germany, France, Australia, Japan and Britain are throwing parties, and that’s a good thing. China’s state media has for years been focusing on America’s racist past, on the past oppression of blacks as a way of broadly undermining the significance of our democracy, and thus propping up support for the regime. That’s gone. Dead. The exact same thing is true of the state media in Venezuela and Cuba. And it’s gone, dead, hollow. Conservatives like to point out America’s unique role in the world (as if moderates and liberals aren’t aware of it), yet they incomprehenisibly resent the fact that the world, which is so impacted by us, deigns to express an opinion about the choice of our leader: witness Drudge, constantly trumpeting international support because he knows his readers will hate Obama even more when they see that the Frenchies like him; witness the conservative reaction to Obama’s July trip to Europe. But the reality is that Obama will vigorously defend our national interests, and his ability to do so will be strengthened by the high opinion the world has of him. In the end it is the pacifists and America-haters who will likely be most disappointed, as Obama proves to be a open-minded but firm international leader, in the mold of Bush Sr. and Clinton, not Carter (soft and thus ineffective) or Bush II (boorish and thus ineffective). Get over yourselves.

Nov 5, 2008 - 2:43 pm 5. wildernesscalling:

Yes it is a very sad day, a chess master such as Putin will run circles around the “O”ne, the dicey question is will he be lead into a war like JFK did veitam? sad that good men will pay while the rotten of America will simple follow the piper down the trail, Revelations is not a one night event it takes many steps before man runs to the cliff and we all hold hands and jump off, Jesus will return as the lion not the the lamb!

Nov 5, 2008 - 2:46 pm 6. Marcus Auerlius:

Pelted, The world’s infatuation will soon be over, especially if Obama proves us wrong and does put the nation’s interests first. While I believe he thinks he has the national interest at heart I and nearly half of the participating electorate don’t believe he is up to the task of either knowing what it is or how to pursue it. His first appointment shows he is not interested in unity, which is fine, our political system is not about unity.

I don’t recall a whole lot of nice things being said about the USA when Clinton was in office.

Nov 5, 2008 - 2:54 pm 7. Pelted:

Marcus, it’s not going to be lovey-dovey forever, but a lot of the steam is getting taken out of the hate balloon. And, as you don’t address, the propaganda machines of China, Cuba and Venezuela have likely been severely damaged, as has the recruiting ability of Al Queda. Given that you folks on this blog, including the writer, probably voted twice for a guy who famously said he had looked into Putin’s eyes and seen the soul of a democrat, I find your worries about Obama’s ability to handle the big bad tough old world…ironic. In the end though, only time will tell which of us is correct.

By the way, is Marcus Aurelius, not “Auerlius.” I swear; you people and your psuedo-sophisticated fascination with ancient Greeks and Romans. I don’t know if it’s that you’ve all been reading too much Victor Davis Hanson or what!

Nov 5, 2008 - 3:14 pm 8. RattlerGator:

Pelted, are you ignoring the study of history? And I don’t mean the variety written 30 years after the fact. I mean the kind written contemporaneously when the acts were taken. So many keep insisting the world is going to love America when X or Y happens, regardless of the facts never coming to fruition. When has the election of any American President led to world favor? You think the socialists and communists of Europe loved JFK? Did Clinton’s election lead to more favor for America? Hell no. They liked Clinton, not America. And they only liked Clinton as a foil to Americans. Now that Obama is on the scene, the same will apply to him and just how much love will there be for Clinton? Not much.

The world envies America. That leads to jealousy of America, regardless of our leader. And jealousy ultimately leads to expressions of hate. The only time America is appreciated is when a nation needs to beg for her assistance and even then America will be criticized relentlessly.

I do love the hypocrisy of the legions on the left who so love to lecture America and what our President should not do and should not be. Now, Obama is President-elect of the World (if some of these folks are to be believed) and everything has flipped. My, my, my.

Nov 5, 2008 - 3:23 pm 9. Phil:

Pelted, you obviously haven’t been here very long if you accuse Wretchard of voting for W. Troll.

Nov 5, 2008 - 3:25 pm 10. exhelodrvr:

Pelted,
“Al Queda is going to find it a he** of a lot harder to recruit candidates to go bomb a country with a leader whose middle name is Hussein. ”

Totally – just check out Iraq. It’s really hard to find someone who will kill someone from the other side if they have a similar name.

Nov 5, 2008 - 3:34 pm 11. Staring In Disbelief:

Pelted: You need to get a grip. The “O” has yet to show ANY such “strength” or “moderation”. All those people you mentioned as “endorsing” him are looking to curry favor. Colin Powell probably misses the adoring DC limelight and wants his old job back while Buffett wants the estate tax back in full force so Berkshire Hathaway’s profits go up. If Obama appoints Rubin to Treasury (AND actually follows his normally sober and sensible advice) THEN MAYBE you can state those claims. If Gates is offered Defense I’ll grant you 1 point. If he takes it to preside over its gutting (like Cohen did with Clinton), It’ll be because he likes DC living more than his place in history.

As of right now you have absolutely no evidence that Hussein “will vigorously defend our national interests”. In fact, there is an abundance of objective evidence to the contrary (”the surge won’t/hasn’t worked”).

As for the rest of the world’s opinion, are you telling me we should pay attention to the mind-boggling hypocrisy of China, Russia, Venezuala and Cuba when it comes to human rights? Are you kidding? As for the Euros, Henry Kissinger once said “Europe will follow strong American leadership reluctantly, fitfully, and chaotically. They won’t follow weak American leadership AT ALL.” I myself am glad to see Bush go, but not for any foreign policy reasons. If they are partying, maybe it’s because they think the First Socialist president of the United States is going to bail out their economies again with “The Barack Plan”.

If Obama can rally the EU to prevent a nuclear Iran from blowing up the Middle East, or persuade the Chinese to force the Norks to abide by the HIGHLY advantageous non-proliferation agreement they signed, OR the keep crazier-by-the-minute Pakis from turning into NukeMart, then you will have a basis for your statements. We here at the BC are skeptical because we hear him say the words and philosophy of James Earl Carter and we’re old enough to remember how all that turned out.

Bring your A-Game, Hopey-Changies, your hangovers weren’t even gone before the Russians starting probing your guts with the pointy end of nuclear missiles. Will they find steel or mush? We’re all waiting to find out.

Nov 5, 2008 - 3:35 pm 12. Marcus Aurelius:

Pelted,

It might also have something to do with the fact it was a nickname my grandfater gave to me based on my given name.

Nov 5, 2008 - 3:39 pm 13. Staring In Disbelief:

Oh, and one more thing: It’s you lefties that inflated the “hate balloon” in the first place with your BushChimpHitler and BushLiedPeopleDied juvenile CRAP. It hasn’t even been 24 hours since The One ascended the throne and now all you crybabies are already all over the place sounding like Rodney “Can’t we all just get along?” King.

Yet one more thing: I thought the phrase “you people” was against the lefty-PC law after Ross Perot in 1992?

Nov 5, 2008 - 3:45 pm 14. Pelted:

Phil, my bad if I’m wrong about Wretchard. I doubt I’m wrong about Marcus though. Rattler, many people in the world will never love America, and I’m not suggesting Obama’s election will totally change that. It will change it for some though. And the good feeling of the world will in fact help Obama be more effective on America’s behalf, just as the good will of the world towards America after 9/11 aided W. when he wanted to go to Afghanistan. It’s simply a form of quite tangible political capital. How Obama spends that capital, and what the world’s ultimate impression of him is after he does so, is anybody’s guess. But it is wrong to deny the power or reality of the current political capital itself. So from my perspective, you’re giving me sort of formulaic conservative response based on what you already believe I believe, not based on what I wrote above. I also think you and many conservatives, because you are so studiously indifferent to the feelings of the world, totally underestimate the degree to which totalitarian regimes point to America’s internal failures, as towards black people, in order to say our system is not that great after all. As I mentioned before, China’s state media has been preaching this sort of thing for years. Obama’s victory is thus a huge victory, not just for him, but for the the American system. You may not care if the world parses the extent to which we have lived up to our national aspirations over the last 200 years, but the world does, and totalitarians have very consistently used our failures against us. You may resent the fact that the world is intensely grateful our 44th preseident is not a 44th white-haired white guy, but they are, and it’s meaningful, and it’s strategically beneficial to us.

Nov 5, 2008 - 3:50 pm 15. Roderick Reilly:

Didn’t Soon-to-be-Vice-President “Gaffmeister von Dol-Hair Implants” warn us that “The One” will be put to the test early on?

Nov 5, 2008 - 3:52 pm 16. cedarford:

Politically, it is another stupid Russian move that will backfire in their clumsy faces. Europe and Asia are very happy with the election, that the Neocons are out of power, that Obama will not act as the lone cowboy – and the 1st thing Russia does is piss on the parade. Any loss of goodwill is to boomerang on Ivan.

It’s like with Georgia. Russia had just cause to intervene after Shaskavilli launched an idiot attack, then screwed up and overplayed their hand. Then had Europe, China, the US and non-aligned nations ending up beating on them.

Nov 5, 2008 - 4:08 pm 17. Whitehall:

So does anyone want to join a betting pool on when Poland detonates its first nuclear explosive device?

They could never trust NATO (France and Germany) to die for their freedom and the US will be shakey after January 20th.

BHO will set off an acceleration of nuclear proliferation across the globe as the world’s faith in the US global policeman evaporates.

Nov 5, 2008 - 4:09 pm 18. whiskey:

Pelted — Obama is on record saying he will stand with Muslims against America.

What can anyone say about someone whose whole life is centered around on hating Whites? Obama has always hated Whites, he said it in his book, his preacher, his church, his wife, his life.

He is weak, pathetic, a fool, who knows not the use of force or hard, dangerous men, except those who killed Americans that he adopted. He is both suspected of being a closet Muslim, and has gaps in his record (where he might have been in a Mosque, at Columbia) and his weird trip to Pakistan in his twenties when in College.

Moreover, AQ is not about us. Not at all. We are merely a target that AQ leaders use to get power and prestige. When Bill Clinton was bombing Christian Serbs to save Muslims, Osama struggled to find money and men. Until he started killing Americans in Kenya and Tanzania and Yemen.

Osama and men like him want to RULE Saudi Arabia, the great prize. They need men, power, money, and backing. They get it by successfully attacking and killing ever greater amounts of Americans. It’s tribal, it’s how tribal people live. It’s how they get power. They did that FIRST with Putin, but THAT man responded by leveling Grozny and making some nasty deals (sharing weapons and power with Iran).

The only way to stop unending attacks like Beslan is to be strong, and feared. No one “admires” Putin but ALL fear him. Polonium Tea and leveled Grozny are potent examples to what happens to those who cross Putin. Osama would not DARE nuke Moscow.

If he nuked NYC, Obama would be groveling and saying it was America’s fault, evil “racist” White people forced Osama, and calling for dialogue. NEVER has Obama fought for this country. Not one time. He can’t even wear the flag pin or act respectful when the National Anthem plays. No one fears him and all know he’s merely the First Rockstar, a Shaman, not a man willing to kill and send men to die to protect this country. He doesn’t even love it.

It is only a question of when not if Obama allows NYC or another US city to be nuked. It will be his fault.

Nov 5, 2008 - 4:12 pm 19. Mark Maps:

Whew, I’m so glad Pelted came along to straighten all us confused folks out. We weren’t even aware of how ignorant we’ve been. How could this have been?

Pelted, is my username acceptable? (Please, please say it is, so I can sleep soundly tonight.)

Nov 5, 2008 - 4:29 pm 20. Marcus Aurelius:

Pelted,

Did Obama or did Obama not promise to shut down SDI? If he did, then this current thing being brewed up by Russia is a game of setting up perception. That is, it is not a serious threat, nor given Obama’s postion on this would I give him any credit for defusing the situation, however I know that is exactly what will happen. Now, if Obama’s position on SDI were different and Obama & his admin executed some ploy to get Russia to drop their demands then I would give him credit. But, that is not what we see going on here, Russia is pre-spinning.

BTW, here is an interesting article:
http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9119221

So, while maybe the foreign power alluded to in the above article may not have the latest nuances of Obama’s positions, it certainly seems it has their skeletons.

Nov 5, 2008 - 4:49 pm 21. vb:

Pelted,

The myth of the squandered sympathy after 9/11 has been debunked many times. As soon as people recovered from the shock, they got scared and tried to figure out how to feed us to the crocodile. Have you done any reading on the topic? Try Bruce Bawer’s “While Europe Slept.” Bawer is a gay American who lives with his partner in Norway. He is socially liberal, and I just read on his blog today that he voted, after a lot of deliberation, for Obama. He experienced 9/11 and its aftermath from Europe (as did I). Although I did not support Obama, I respect that Bawer reached his opinion from a point of understanding. Do some background reading to prepare yourself to evaluate Obama’s actions. The Kumbaya stuff is not a firm basis for an adult’s opinion. And please don’t talk about the crowd in Berlin. You get crowds for Madonna concerts too.

Nov 5, 2008 - 5:11 pm 22. Marcus Aurelius:

Obama or not, our Russian friends once again misunderestimate us, seems like some fellow by the name of Kruschev talked in a similar fashion.

Nov 5, 2008 - 5:52 pm 23. Pelted:

Whiskey, nothing you said is even worth responding to. Wow, just silly. Put a note in your Outlook calender to come back to this blog entry in two years or so so you can have an opportunity to look at your post once you’re proven totally wrong.

VB: 1) I wasn’t even talking about the myth (which it is not) of squandered sympathy. I was making a totally different point that going to Afghanistan was easy and the US faced no UN or other conflict because everyone was pulling for us. Please try to respond to the point being made, rather than glancing over a post and responding with a formulaic talking point. 2) As I mentioned, it won’t always be kumbaya. Again, the point I was making was about the existence of political capital.

Mark: If by “acceptable” you mean spelled correctly, then yes. Happy to have been of assistance.

Marcus, it is always interesting to me when people assume that my disagreement with them is based on my not having read something. For this, you of course have no basis; but of course you know that, and you know it’s an empty vessel of a rhetorical pose. But if it makes you feel better, bully for you.

Nov 5, 2008 - 6:50 pm 24. Derek:

Pelted:

Oh, if it were only that simple.

China will love Obama LOVE him when he implements his promise to punish companies that invest in plants outside the US. I’m sure that the hundreds of millions of unemployed chinese will just adore him. Canada will LOVE Obama when he renegotiates NAFTA. Our economy is only 40% dependent on export to the US. We can handle that.

Saudi Arabia and Egypt and Iraq will LOVE Obama when he sits and talks to Iran and lets them get nuclear. They will love him so much that they will want nuclear weapons themselves.

Oh, and the world will fall to their knees when the Obama tax hikes create a world wide depression. They will be praying and worshiping the great Obama, no?

Derek

Nov 5, 2008 - 7:01 pm 25. Marcus Aurelius:

You are still not answering a question. Did or did not Obama promise to shut down SDI?

Nov 5, 2008 - 7:05 pm 26. Derek:

Pelted:

Political capital? That and $5 dollars will get you a coffee at Starbucks.

Here in Canada the only issue that is of any import is Obama’s promise to restrict trade. The only question is whether he will do what he said he will do.

You think the adoring crowds will gather in Ontario, which probably would have voted Obama 75% or so, when he tells GM that emergency financing is contingent on moving production to the US? Isn’t that what he meant when he said “End tax breaks for companies that outsource jobs overseas.”

Why do you think that Obama has any political capital with those outside of the US?

Derek

Nov 5, 2008 - 7:13 pm 27. Derek:

Marcus: Of course he did.

And if he pulls the SDI stuff out of eastern europe, Russia will relax and go back to knitting and growing wheat with smiling farmers. And growing cabbages.

Peace will break out. In between the poisonings and assassinations of course. But it’s only people who make trouble that will suffer.

Derek

Nov 5, 2008 - 7:16 pm 28. cellec:

“the world is intensely grateful our 44th preseident is not a 44th white-haired white guy”… “and it’s meaningful, and it’s strategically beneficial to us.”

Sadly, I’m afraid they’re so grateful we chose Obama because, well, because everyone loves a sucker. Most of the World likes Obama because they see him as a kind of apology for America’s aggressive stance over the last eight years, and a signal that we’re ready to let ourselves be taken advantage of again for the sake of being liked.

I’m afraid “The World” is far less offended by things like Guantanamo and Iraq than they want us to know. “The World” is just far more comfortable with America in the role of “The Globe’s Rich, Dumb Uncle” who never fights for his own protection, but to clean up Europe’s messes (the Balkans), and they see BHO’s Presidency as a sign we’re chastened and ready to assume that role again.

Nov 5, 2008 - 7:51 pm 29. Marcus Aurelius:

Derek,

Yeah I know he did, I just want Pelted to admit it, he is seeming to find ways to avoid answering.

The understanding I am working on is Russia plans to deploy the missiles & troops unless SDI is terminated. However, the story Wretchard links to paints that as the main, but not only concern. Howver, I suspect it is SDI and will give them an initial and low cost test of Obama.

As far as C4’s contention Europe will be displeased with Russia’s provocation, how is that going to concern Russia? What are the European states going to do, tell their main energy supplier to stick it? The Obama administration will have to act as the lone Cowboy. When all is done, perhaps the Europeans can bring out the champagne glasses. Perhaps this will lead to the incident Gaffeomatic alluded to.

Also, both campaigns were well aware of their compromised computer systems a long time ago, it was agreed to keep it under wraps until after the election.

Nov 5, 2008 - 7:57 pm 30. outa my league:

“So does anyone want to join a betting pool on when Poland detonates its first nuclear explosive device?”

Do Poles even know how to set up a betting pool?

Nov 5, 2008 - 8:31 pm 31. Pelted:

Marcus, why do you people make it so easy? In fact, Obama did NOT, in your words, “promise to shut down SDI.” Here is his original statement after visiting Poland in 2007, in which me makes no such promise, and simply more generally criticizes the Bush Administration on the issue. See http://obama.senate.gov/press/070716-obama_statement_73/
But what you are no doubt referring to is the February 2008 statement, “I will cut investments in unproven missile defense systems.” This was of course A) made during the primary, when his only path to the nomination was to run to the left of Hillary, and B) linguistically doesn’t necessarily mean, or even probably mean, cut ALL investment in ALL types of the technology and C) this reading of it is supported by the fact that he later said he supports the idea of missile defense generally. (That was famously mocked as a “flip-flop” on YouTube in September. See here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NP06C37o35Q) So call him a flip-flopper, call the issue ambiguous even, but the idea that he has definitively said he would cut SDI, kill permanently any deployment in Poland, etc. is, quite simply, indeed false. Of course, most of the stuff you people are saying on this site (whiskey being the worst offender), is a half-coherent mish-mash of conspiracy theories, paranoid fantasies, and half-remembered ‘facts’ derived from like-minded individuals whose idea of an objective news source, no doubt, is the NRO opinion pages.

Nov 5, 2008 - 9:30 pm 32. Pelted:

My comment, with hyperlinks, won’t post, so I’m doing it without the links:

Marcus, why do you people make it so easy? In fact, Obama did NOT, in your words, “promise to shut down SDI.” Here is his original statement after visiting Poland in 2007, in which me makes no such promise, and simply more generally criticizes the Bush Administration on the issue. See [google it].
But what you are no doubt referring to is the February 2008 statement, “I will cut investments in unproven missile defense systems.” This was of course A) made during the primary, when his only path to the nomination was to run to the left of Hillary, and B) linguistically doesn’t necessarily mean, or even probably mean, cut ALL investment in ALL types of the technology and C) this reading of it is supported by the fact that he later said he supports the idea of missile defense generally. (That was famously mocked as a “flip-flop” on YouTube in September. See [google it]. So call him a flip-flopper, call the issue ambiguous even, but the idea that he has definitively said he would cut SDI, kill permanently any deployment in Poland, etc. is, quite simply, indeed false. Of course, most of the stuff you people are saying on this site (whiskey being the worst offender), is a half-coherent mish-mash of conspiracy theories, paranoid fantasies, and half-remembered ‘facts’ derived from like-minded individuals whose idea of an objective news source, no doubt, is the NRO opinion pages.

Nov 5, 2008 - 9:32 pm 33. Marcus Aurelius:

THANK YOU, was it that hard to say no and explain? Geeze.

Can’t post hyperlinks? Hint, use cut ‘n paste, its easy I did it above.

Okay, given the truth of your claims that Obama is not unilaterally calling off SDI (however, it seems he is declaring a major aspect of it off, but land based SDI is more debatable) then we have a real crisis brewing and I have real concerns on how Obama will handle it.

So what if I am an NRO reader, I bet you get your info from MSNBC.

Nov 6, 2008 - 7:02 am 34. Anton:

Pelted,

What do the members of “The World That Loves Obama” have to offer us?

Military support? the Brits make deals with the enemy then go hide in their camp, the Germans and Dutch won’t fight the French are too busy trying to keep a lid on their old colonies (that they FUBARed so badly that nothing good will ever come of it). The only ones worth a good G&% D(*& are the Canadians and the Aussies and with them only until the next Parlimentary Election (which can happen at any time thereby making them a slender reed as well). Poland is not much help as they are the real front line of NATO facing an agressive (and increasingly dangerous) Russia.

Financial Support? Take a look at the European banks they are dropping like flies. The EU has pumped several times as much money as we have into their system to try to keep it afloat and it just keeps sinking.

Help bringing prosperity back to the US? It would mean the loss of jobs in their country, can’t see that happening.

Political Support? The EU has been whining at Iran to pretty-please stop building a bomb for how long now? With what results? The leaders that like Obama outside of the EU are mostly dictators that are hated/feared by their people so what good is that? One of the few things that Mao said that was true was that political power grows from the barrel of a gun which is a paraphrase of the old Sawhili “talk softly but carry a big stick”. Political support that is all whispers and no stick carries all the weight of the sighing of the wind.

So please explain what all this wonderful Political Capital will acheive.

Nov 6, 2008 - 7:38 am 35. Staring In Disbelief:

Pelted: OK, so, Obama was only telling a politically expedient lie during the primaries so we can trust him to back missile defenses when he deems them “prudent”. Great. So any doubt about his commitment to missile defense on our part or our allies is “paranoia”. I feel SO much better.

You are one deluded dude.

Nov 6, 2008 - 7:56 am 36. Anton:

Oops, looks like the troll left.

Nov 6, 2008 - 9:07 am 37. WSL:

In reading the letters to the LA Times this morning, I wasn’t surprised by how many expressed great joy at Obama’s election (I expected as much), rather by the source of that joy. All but one or two cited the symbolism of electing a black president. I will admit that the symbolism is significant, but symbolism alone will not guarantee effective leadership. I hope all these folks who are so euphoric about the symbol that was elected will have something else to feel good about in a few months after the post-election high wears off and reality sets in.

Nov 6, 2008 - 10:32 am 38. Jay:

I recently returned from Milan where I attended a conference on EU technology. I talked with a number of important players in the EU finance and technology game. They were very worried about an Obama presidency.
As was mentioned above the EU has some very serious economic problems. They have freeloaded on our military might. Now they are worried that they have to somehow unite to defend themselves from Russia, the Muslims and their own loonies.

Nov 6, 2008 - 11:02 am 39. Marcus Aurelius:

I don’t see Europe doing a whole lot here, after all where does their energy come from?

Nov 6, 2008 - 11:05 am 40. WSL:

Several years ago, when the Iraq war was the reason du jour to hate President Bush, a common cry was to “bring the troops home.” At the time, I was involved in a discussion with several co-workers on this topic, and I suggested that perhaps we should begin by pulling our troops out of Europe since the Cold War was over and the savings from such a withdrawl could be added to the so-called peace dividend. The idea was met with great disapproval. The concern, evidently, was not about saving money, but to quit Iraq and let a defeated and humiliated America return home. Given our own current economic climate, I believe more than ever that we need to pull out of Europe. Our presence there has nothing to do with defense and evertying to do with their local economies.

Nov 6, 2008 - 11:23 am 41. Pelted:

Anton, I’m sorry if I have been too vehement, but at least I have been correct on my facts, which is more than I can say about many here.

Marcus is correct that Europe cannot do much against Russia, because Russia supplies so much of Europe’s energy. I think it was telling though that Russian leadership was almost the sole exception to a worldwide congratulations, both from leaders and The People. Nothing upsets the puppet-masters of a sham democracy like Russia’s more than seeing a real democracy completely sweep out a political class in a totally bloodless manner, which is what has now happened in America in 2006 and especially in 2008. Beyond their general beligerence, Russia is basically laying out their negotiating position. Medvedev’s statement is no different than what his position would be if McCain had become President. He is trying to A) test what Obama’s position really is, and B) by speaking so early he is also trying to make it look like a Russian political victory if in fact Marcus is correct and Obama’s position has been all along to pull the Poland plan. By saying this, he can make it look like he pressured Obama into it. Of course, this makes it vastly more likely that Obama will not pull the plan, because he’s not going to want to be pushed around. Which Medvedev probably knows, because he’s not an idiot like whiskey is, which means that what Medvedev is actually trying to do is C) make sure that tensions with the US actually remain high during an Obama presidency. This is likely because the last thing a sham democracy like Russia, and to a lesser extent, (at least so far) Venezuela, needs is the lack of an artificial external threat (known as “the West” in Russia, and “imperialist America” in Venezuela) with which to scare the more ignorant members of one’s populace. If Obama is smart I think his response to this will be to highlight his long-standing criticism of the Poland missile-system’s premature deployment, refuse to commit to removing it, and generally continue with it, but in a less belicose manner than Bush’s. Because he is smart, that is likely what he will do.

As to what we can gain from our Obama-loving supporters, you have completely missed the point. The whole point of political capital is that it is POLITICAL, not financial, not military. Thus, what it gives us is in fact more latitude for AMERICA to act, not the financial or military aid for others. It prevents them from sniping so much at us and allows us to lead. If we’re lucky, this will make it less likely that we will eventually need their military or financial aid, which, as you point out, is minimal.

Marcus, my post with the links eventually did come up, so calm down on that. It was just being moderated because it had hyperlinks.

Now I have to go work. I’ll probably be one of those paying more taxes under an Obama Administration. Contrary to the false-logic psychology of Republicans, this has me wanting to work a little harder, to make up the difference when he raises my capital gains taxes.

Nov 6, 2008 - 11:33 am 42. Perry Stroyka:

Is the Glasnost half full, or half empty?

Nov 6, 2008 - 6:41 pm 43. Ms. Know:

Russia is in full effect, and we are under the leadership of the left-wing illuminati, who think you can shake hands with people who are threatening to send missles our way.

Nov 15, 2008 - 10:15 am

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