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	<title>Comments on: The beat goes on</title>
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		<title>By: Ms. Know</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/11/05/the-beat-goes-on/comment-page-1/#comment-22198</link>
		<dc:creator>Ms. Know</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Nov 2008 17:15:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=791#comment-22198</guid>
		<description>Russia is in full effect, and we are under the leadership of the left-wing illuminati, who think you can shake hands with people who are threatening to send missles our way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Russia is in full effect, and we are under the leadership of the left-wing illuminati, who think you can shake hands with people who are threatening to send missles our way.</p>
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		<title>By: Perry Stroyka</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/11/05/the-beat-goes-on/comment-page-1/#comment-20827</link>
		<dc:creator>Perry Stroyka</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 01:41:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=791#comment-20827</guid>
		<description>Is the Glasnost half full, or half empty?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is the Glasnost half full, or half empty?</p>
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		<title>By: Pelted</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/11/05/the-beat-goes-on/comment-page-1/#comment-20733</link>
		<dc:creator>Pelted</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Nov 2008 18:33:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=791#comment-20733</guid>
		<description>Anton, I&#039;m sorry if I have been too vehement, but at least I have been correct on my facts, which is more than I can say about many here.

Marcus is correct that Europe cannot do much against Russia, because Russia supplies so much of Europe&#039;s energy.  I think it was telling though that Russian leadership was almost the sole exception to a worldwide congratulations, both from leaders and The People.  Nothing upsets the puppet-masters of a sham democracy like Russia&#039;s more than seeing a real democracy completely sweep out a political class in a totally bloodless manner, which is what has now happened in America in 2006 and especially in 2008.  Beyond their general beligerence, Russia is basically laying out their negotiating position.  Medvedev&#039;s statement is no different than what his position would be if McCain had become President.  He is trying to A) test what Obama&#039;s position really is, and B) by speaking so early he is also trying to make it look like a Russian political victory if in fact Marcus is correct and Obama&#039;s position has been all along to pull the Poland plan.  By saying this, he can make it look like he pressured Obama into it.  Of course, this makes it vastly more likely that Obama will not pull the plan, because he&#039;s not going to want to be pushed around.  Which Medvedev probably knows, because he&#039;s not an idiot like whiskey is, which means that what Medvedev is actually trying to do is C) make sure that tensions with the US actually remain high during an Obama presidency.  This is likely because the last thing a sham democracy like Russia, and to a lesser extent, (at least so far) Venezuela, needs is the lack of an artificial external threat (known as &quot;the West&quot; in Russia, and &quot;imperialist America&quot; in Venezuela) with which to scare the more ignorant members of one&#039;s populace.  If Obama is smart I think his response to this will be to highlight his long-standing criticism of the Poland missile-system&#039;s premature deployment, refuse to commit to removing it, and generally continue with it, but in a less belicose manner than Bush&#039;s.  Because he is smart, that is likely what he will do.

As to what we can gain from our Obama-loving supporters, you have completely missed the point.  The whole point of political capital is that it is POLITICAL, not financial, not military.  Thus, what it gives us is in fact more latitude for AMERICA to act, not the financial or military aid for others.  It prevents them from sniping so much at us and allows us to lead.  If we&#039;re lucky, this will make it less likely that we will eventually need their military or financial aid, which, as you point out, is minimal.

Marcus, my post with the links eventually did come up, so calm down on that.  It was just being moderated because it had hyperlinks. 

Now I have to go work.  I&#039;ll probably be one of those paying more taxes under an Obama Administration.  Contrary to the false-logic psychology of Republicans, this has me wanting to work a little harder, to make up the difference when he raises my capital gains taxes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anton, I&#8217;m sorry if I have been too vehement, but at least I have been correct on my facts, which is more than I can say about many here.</p>
<p>Marcus is correct that Europe cannot do much against Russia, because Russia supplies so much of Europe&#8217;s energy.  I think it was telling though that Russian leadership was almost the sole exception to a worldwide congratulations, both from leaders and The People.  Nothing upsets the puppet-masters of a sham democracy like Russia&#8217;s more than seeing a real democracy completely sweep out a political class in a totally bloodless manner, which is what has now happened in America in 2006 and especially in 2008.  Beyond their general beligerence, Russia is basically laying out their negotiating position.  Medvedev&#8217;s statement is no different than what his position would be if McCain had become President.  He is trying to A) test what Obama&#8217;s position really is, and B) by speaking so early he is also trying to make it look like a Russian political victory if in fact Marcus is correct and Obama&#8217;s position has been all along to pull the Poland plan.  By saying this, he can make it look like he pressured Obama into it.  Of course, this makes it vastly more likely that Obama will not pull the plan, because he&#8217;s not going to want to be pushed around.  Which Medvedev probably knows, because he&#8217;s not an idiot like whiskey is, which means that what Medvedev is actually trying to do is C) make sure that tensions with the US actually remain high during an Obama presidency.  This is likely because the last thing a sham democracy like Russia, and to a lesser extent, (at least so far) Venezuela, needs is the lack of an artificial external threat (known as &#8220;the West&#8221; in Russia, and &#8220;imperialist America&#8221; in Venezuela) with which to scare the more ignorant members of one&#8217;s populace.  If Obama is smart I think his response to this will be to highlight his long-standing criticism of the Poland missile-system&#8217;s premature deployment, refuse to commit to removing it, and generally continue with it, but in a less belicose manner than Bush&#8217;s.  Because he is smart, that is likely what he will do.</p>
<p>As to what we can gain from our Obama-loving supporters, you have completely missed the point.  The whole point of political capital is that it is POLITICAL, not financial, not military.  Thus, what it gives us is in fact more latitude for AMERICA to act, not the financial or military aid for others.  It prevents them from sniping so much at us and allows us to lead.  If we&#8217;re lucky, this will make it less likely that we will eventually need their military or financial aid, which, as you point out, is minimal.</p>
<p>Marcus, my post with the links eventually did come up, so calm down on that.  It was just being moderated because it had hyperlinks. </p>
<p>Now I have to go work.  I&#8217;ll probably be one of those paying more taxes under an Obama Administration.  Contrary to the false-logic psychology of Republicans, this has me wanting to work a little harder, to make up the difference when he raises my capital gains taxes.</p>
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		<title>By: WSL</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/11/05/the-beat-goes-on/comment-page-1/#comment-20731</link>
		<dc:creator>WSL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Nov 2008 18:23:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=791#comment-20731</guid>
		<description>Several years ago, when the Iraq war was the reason du jour to hate President Bush, a common cry was to &quot;bring the troops home.&quot;  At the time, I was involved in a discussion with several co-workers on this topic, and I suggested that perhaps we should begin by pulling our troops out of Europe since the Cold War was over and the savings from such a withdrawl could be added to the so-called peace dividend.  The idea was met with great disapproval.  The concern, evidently, was not about saving money, but to quit Iraq and let a defeated and humiliated America return home.  Given our own current economic climate, I believe more than ever that we need to pull out of Europe.  Our presence there has nothing to do with defense and evertying to do with their local economies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Several years ago, when the Iraq war was the reason du jour to hate President Bush, a common cry was to &#8220;bring the troops home.&#8221;  At the time, I was involved in a discussion with several co-workers on this topic, and I suggested that perhaps we should begin by pulling our troops out of Europe since the Cold War was over and the savings from such a withdrawl could be added to the so-called peace dividend.  The idea was met with great disapproval.  The concern, evidently, was not about saving money, but to quit Iraq and let a defeated and humiliated America return home.  Given our own current economic climate, I believe more than ever that we need to pull out of Europe.  Our presence there has nothing to do with defense and evertying to do with their local economies.</p>
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		<title>By: Marcus Aurelius</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/11/05/the-beat-goes-on/comment-page-1/#comment-20727</link>
		<dc:creator>Marcus Aurelius</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Nov 2008 18:05:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=791#comment-20727</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t see Europe doing a whole lot here, after all where does their energy come from?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t see Europe doing a whole lot here, after all where does their energy come from?</p>
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		<title>By: Jay</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/11/05/the-beat-goes-on/comment-page-1/#comment-20725</link>
		<dc:creator>Jay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Nov 2008 18:02:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=791#comment-20725</guid>
		<description>I recently returned from Milan where I attended a conference on EU technology. I talked with a number of important players in the EU finance and technology game. They were very worried about an Obama presidency.
 As was mentioned above the EU has some very serious economic problems. They have freeloaded on our military might. Now they are worried that they have to somehow unite to defend themselves from Russia, the Muslims and their own loonies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I recently returned from Milan where I attended a conference on EU technology. I talked with a number of important players in the EU finance and technology game. They were very worried about an Obama presidency.<br />
 As was mentioned above the EU has some very serious economic problems. They have freeloaded on our military might. Now they are worried that they have to somehow unite to defend themselves from Russia, the Muslims and their own loonies.</p>
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		<title>By: WSL</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/11/05/the-beat-goes-on/comment-page-1/#comment-20720</link>
		<dc:creator>WSL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Nov 2008 17:32:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=791#comment-20720</guid>
		<description>In reading the letters to the LA Times this morning, I wasn&#039;t surprised by how many expressed great joy at Obama&#039;s election (I expected as much), rather by the source of that joy.  All but one or two cited the symbolism of electing a black president.  I will admit that the symbolism is significant, but symbolism alone will not guarantee effective leadership.  I hope all these folks who are so euphoric about the symbol that was elected will have something else to feel good about in a few months after the post-election high wears off and reality sets in.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reading the letters to the LA Times this morning, I wasn&#8217;t surprised by how many expressed great joy at Obama&#8217;s election (I expected as much), rather by the source of that joy.  All but one or two cited the symbolism of electing a black president.  I will admit that the symbolism is significant, but symbolism alone will not guarantee effective leadership.  I hope all these folks who are so euphoric about the symbol that was elected will have something else to feel good about in a few months after the post-election high wears off and reality sets in.</p>
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		<title>By: Anton</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/11/05/the-beat-goes-on/comment-page-1/#comment-20702</link>
		<dc:creator>Anton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Nov 2008 16:07:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=791#comment-20702</guid>
		<description>Oops, looks like the troll left.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oops, looks like the troll left.</p>
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		<title>By: Staring In Disbelief</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/11/05/the-beat-goes-on/comment-page-1/#comment-20690</link>
		<dc:creator>Staring In Disbelief</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Nov 2008 14:56:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=791#comment-20690</guid>
		<description>Pelted: OK, so, Obama was only telling a politically expedient lie during the primaries so we can trust him to back missile defenses when he deems them &quot;prudent&quot;. Great. So any doubt about his commitment to missile defense on our part or our allies is &quot;paranoia&quot;. I feel SO much better. 

You are one deluded dude.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pelted: OK, so, Obama was only telling a politically expedient lie during the primaries so we can trust him to back missile defenses when he deems them &#8220;prudent&#8221;. Great. So any doubt about his commitment to missile defense on our part or our allies is &#8220;paranoia&#8221;. I feel SO much better. </p>
<p>You are one deluded dude.</p>
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		<title>By: Anton</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/11/05/the-beat-goes-on/comment-page-1/#comment-20685</link>
		<dc:creator>Anton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Nov 2008 14:38:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=791#comment-20685</guid>
		<description>Pelted, 

What do the members of &quot;The World That Loves Obama&quot; have to offer us? 

Military support? the Brits make deals with the enemy then go hide in their camp, the Germans and Dutch won&#039;t fight the French are too busy trying to keep a lid on their old colonies (that they FUBARed so badly that nothing good will ever come of it). The only ones worth a good G&amp;% D(*&amp; are the Canadians and the Aussies and with them only until the next Parlimentary Election (which can happen at any time thereby making them a slender reed as well). Poland is not much help as they are the real front line of NATO facing an agressive (and increasingly dangerous) Russia. 

Financial Support? Take a look at the European banks they are dropping like flies. The EU has pumped several times as much money as we have into their system to try to keep it afloat and it just keeps sinking.

Help bringing prosperity back to the US? It would mean the loss of jobs in their country, can&#039;t see that happening.

Political Support? The EU has been whining at Iran to pretty-please stop building a bomb for how long now? With what results? The leaders that like Obama outside of the EU are mostly dictators that are hated/feared by their people so what good is that? One of the few things that Mao said that was true was that political power grows from the barrel of a gun which is a paraphrase of the old Sawhili &quot;talk softly but carry a big stick&quot;. Political support that is all whispers and no stick carries all the weight of the sighing of the wind.

So please explain what all this wonderful Political Capital will acheive.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pelted, </p>
<p>What do the members of &#8220;The World That Loves Obama&#8221; have to offer us? </p>
<p>Military support? the Brits make deals with the enemy then go hide in their camp, the Germans and Dutch won&#8217;t fight the French are too busy trying to keep a lid on their old colonies (that they FUBARed so badly that nothing good will ever come of it). The only ones worth a good G&amp;% D(*&amp; are the Canadians and the Aussies and with them only until the next Parlimentary Election (which can happen at any time thereby making them a slender reed as well). Poland is not much help as they are the real front line of NATO facing an agressive (and increasingly dangerous) Russia. </p>
<p>Financial Support? Take a look at the European banks they are dropping like flies. The EU has pumped several times as much money as we have into their system to try to keep it afloat and it just keeps sinking.</p>
<p>Help bringing prosperity back to the US? It would mean the loss of jobs in their country, can&#8217;t see that happening.</p>
<p>Political Support? The EU has been whining at Iran to pretty-please stop building a bomb for how long now? With what results? The leaders that like Obama outside of the EU are mostly dictators that are hated/feared by their people so what good is that? One of the few things that Mao said that was true was that political power grows from the barrel of a gun which is a paraphrase of the old Sawhili &#8220;talk softly but carry a big stick&#8221;. Political support that is all whispers and no stick carries all the weight of the sighing of the wind.</p>
<p>So please explain what all this wonderful Political Capital will acheive.</p>
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