94 Comments

1. WhoStruckJohn:

When you’ve run out of income to tax, it’s time to draft the forced labor of middle school, high school, and college students to your ends.

Nov 7, 2008 - 1:52 am 2. Nortius Maximus:

I wonder how many hours of indoctrination each student will need in order to be maximally useful and minimally frictional during the 50 or 100 hours of deployment that will be counted each year…

Nov 7, 2008 - 1:54 am 3. Rob Murphy:

21st century Hitler Jugend

Nov 7, 2008 - 2:23 am 4. EvilDave:

The irony of a black man “enslaving” middle and high school students is not missed.
Of course, the Democrats fought the civil war in order to keep men slaves.

Nov 7, 2008 - 2:44 am 5. Zeno:

This could backfire, I’m not sure high school and college students will be glad about this…

What next, reinstating military draft?

Anyway, Michelle had called it months ago, “Obama will demand you to work”.

Nov 7, 2008 - 2:58 am 6. Hyscience:

It certainly take much of an exercise in connecting the dots to see that this is, indeed, the Ayers’ Annenberg Challenge agenda. Marxism, here we come.

Nov 7, 2008 - 3:35 am 7. Hyscience:

In 6 (above), meant to say: “It certainly doesn’t take …

Nov 7, 2008 - 3:37 am 8. niko:

This has got to be a joke. Your a funny man. Please tell me its a joke.

Nov 7, 2008 - 3:46 am 9. ledger:

At first I thought this was just another vote buying scheme under the guise of “workfare” which would be funded by gutting military outlays.

But, the dots are connecting and it spells COMMUNISM.

[Post from person who lived in the USSR]

My wife, born and raised in the Soviet Union would like to go OT about THE ONE.

[Poster] Eowyn2 on the last thread quoted something from Obama’s Department of Change; “Obama will call on citizens of all ages to serve America, by developing a plan to require 50 hours of community service in middle school and high school and 100 hours of community service in college every year…

Honey, it’s all yours!

Ok, guys, I’ve seen this before, I’ve been a part of it before, I’ve participated in this s**t before! The name of that “before” was Soviet school and summer work (letnyaya otrabotka). During our summer vacation (precious short Ural summer) we had to work for a month for the “good of our school and our society”. At 8 am we had to be there and free children labor began – cleaning the territory around school, washing desks, walls, etc., in classrooms. Once they were expecting a supervisor from the school district and the school yard didn’t look good, so they gave us regular paper scissors to cut the grass around the school. Also they sent us on kolkhoz, basically working for farmers cutting herbs. Luckily I only had to do this for one summer because my parents were sending me to Pioneer camp.
And it’s not just this one thing that looks like a replica of the Soviet Union, the whole campaign, the methods he used to brain wash people, the songs on utube that the kids were singing about Obama were almost literal translations of songs from the 1930’s-1950’s about Tovarisch Stalin and Dedushka (Grandpa) Lenin. It looks like nightmare deja vu! His supporters look the same way as the Russian people looked in the time of Stalin, how they adored him. I can’t believe that history taught them nothing. What else can you expect from the what kids are taught, or not taught, today in American schools. I fear that my 4th grade daughter can repeat bad part of my childhood in Soviet schools here in “free” America. So, welcome to the USSA! My congratualtions to the 62,000,000 +/- who voted for Tovarisch Barack!

/rant off

See the thread and Caliredst8r post 452:
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/31839_Vlaams_Belang_and_National_Front_Leaders_Caught_Mocking_Holocaust/comments/#cc6184414

Nov 7, 2008 - 4:08 am 10. Ivan:

A true revolutionary. Just like Stalin; everybody has to work except the helmsmen. They get the fun job of driving the locomotive of history. I’d have more respect for Obama’s proposal if he himself had put in a few days of hard labour at a farm or looked after a terminally ill person. But those are jobs for the lumpen elements. The man himself wrote two autobiographies without any achievement to his name.

Nov 7, 2008 - 4:15 am 11. Doug Loss:

Let’s just call them “Storm Workers.” That’s what Hitler called them when he created his own private army controlled by the party, not the government.

Nov 7, 2008 - 5:21 am 12. jms:

Let’s make this clear. 50/100 hours is the STARTING POINT. This is how he is going to pay for all of his wonderful new programs. Compulsory labor.

Oh BTW. What if you home-school your child and refuse to turn him over to the state for mandatory labor? Will your child be denied a diploma, or will you be prosecuted?

Nov 7, 2008 - 6:00 am 13. Mark:

I am surprised at the tone of the above comments.

Every Peace Corps volunteer I have met has been influenced greatly by that experience. Each one has developed a sense of global understanding and commitment to international ideals. Each one has been longing for an expansion of the program, and others like it.

An initiative to develop more volunteer programs will galvanize young people, and old, providing the Democrats with legions of voters in the future.

Every college campus is already set up for service learning, as is every K-12 school. All Pres. Obama needs to do is provide some funding. It’s cheap labor by the unit.

Why can’t Republicans come up with some ideas? Think, or die.

Nov 7, 2008 - 6:05 am 14. FH:

What? Service to your country now equals communism? I already volunteer with my daughter for our community, feeding elderly people with “meals on wheel” and participating in town clean up days, about 800 hours a year. Come on people American need to take care of Americans,

Nov 7, 2008 - 6:05 am 15. Roland THTG:

Not service, COMPULSORY service. That’s would be the difference. Is it so subtle?

Nov 7, 2008 - 6:10 am 16. FoulHarold:

Gun sales are way up.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/11/07/america/gun.php

http://artfularticulations.blogspot.com/2008/11/gun-sales-increase-before-election.html

I was a little bit ahead of this curve and purchased two firearms in September.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tt2yGzHfy7s

A lot of people are apparently interpreting BHO’s call for a national civilian security force a little differently than he might have intended and are proactively arming themselves.

I wonder what sort of reactions all these other proposed compulsory “corps” might elicit?

Nov 7, 2008 - 6:17 am 17. Quig:

#13 & #14

“…developing a plan to [b]require[/b]… ”

Note the use of the word REQUIRE!!!

Volunteerism means to give freely of yourself.

Nov 7, 2008 - 6:25 am 18. Larry:

Guys, Obama is trying to pull an FDR, and FDR was neither a Communist nor a Socialist. If you look at today’s employment numbers (250k down in October, plus a 150k upward revision for September), you’ll probably agree that makework government jobs are coming in big numbers next year. Just hope that Obama doesn’t adopt FDR’s other, much more harmful policies.

Nov 7, 2008 - 6:43 am 19. enscout:

My 78 year old mother just received a letter from the State Dept of H & HS Monday. It informed her that a State-owned computer was recently ’stolen’. Her name, address, DOB & SS# were in the computer’s database – along with many others.

Is it anxiety & panic that I’m experiencing or healthy fear driven by imminent danger?

Nov 7, 2008 - 6:56 am 20. E. Nigma:

Peace Corps: volunteers
Army and Marines (nowadays): volunteers
Americorps: volunteers

Obama Corps: volunteers? Or not? You make the call. Civic “duty”? Like “do it” kids, or you don’t graduate?

Like the man said, is that too subtle for you?

I, for one, welcome our new Overlords of Compulsion.

Arbeit Macht Frei!! (where did we see that before?)

Nov 7, 2008 - 7:04 am 21. Stones Cry Out - If they keep silent… » Things Heard: e39v5:

[...] OK, those of you on the left, spin that! [...]

Nov 7, 2008 - 7:06 am 22. steveaz:

Great! Four new federal campuses, and all of ‘em pay their inductees to attend.

Scary.

If this passes it’ll be a seismic shift in America’s pluralist society, as it monopolizes an entire generation’s pool of volunteerism and an economy’s-worth of private capital all in one felled-swoop.

What a behemoth!

Nov 7, 2008 - 7:22 am 23. Insufficiently Sensitive:

Every Peace Corps volunteer I have met has been influenced greatly by that experience. Each one has developed a sense of global understanding and commitment to international ideals. Each one has been longing for an expansion of the program, and others like it.

God what obedient little drones. “Sense of global understanding and commitment to international ideals”? Where in the hell do you find that in the US Constitution? Who is the fuehrer who sets the “international ideals”, hey? One of the unelected EU bureaucrats?

Keep a keen eye on this faux ‘volunteerism’, it doesn’t smell a bit like liberty and the pursuit of happiness to this kid.

Nov 7, 2008 - 7:32 am 24. Cascajun:

This sound like conscription, to me.

Nov 7, 2008 - 7:37 am 25. Cannoneer No. 4:

By what right does Obama require community service of anyone?

Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime where of the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.
Section 2. Congress shall have the power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation. — Thirteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution

Butler v. Perry decided that a state has inherent power to require every able-bodied man within its jurisdiction to labor for a reasonable time on public roads near his residence without direct compensation.

Minor children are not able-bodied men. And while states may hold able-bodied men to such labor, where has it been decided that the Federal Government can do so?

Where I live “community service” is performed on Saturday mornings along the roads by DUI’s and assorted other petty criminals wearing orange vests and carrying trash bags. It is punishment for various misdemeanors.

AmeriCorps
Peace Corps
Classroom Corps — The new paramilitary arm of Obama’s Dept. of Ed.?
Health Corps — The new paramilitary arm of Obama’s Public Health Service? Do they get to wear sailor uniforms?
Clean Energy Corps — Unskilled labor for nuclear power plants?
Veterans Corps — Lincoln had one of these. It started out as the Invalid Corps but the troops didn’t like the initials because IC was a stamp or brand meaning Inspected and Condemned.

Eventually The One will get around to press ganging citizens for the
Democrat National Flying Corps
Democrat National Motor Corps
League of American Maidens
Obama Youth
and last but not least, Strength Through Joy

Nov 7, 2008 - 7:40 am 26. Larry:

Obama isn’t going to compel service. He’s going to pay you to do it. His college program pays about $40/hr, apparently…

Nov 7, 2008 - 8:03 am 27. Kvalseth:

You guys forget, most of these kids are not yet 18. They don’t have rights.

My school requires 160 hours of community service to graduate. I think that’s fine, and our CS programs do a lot of good, but I can definitely see where the concern arises mandating it nationally.

Nov 7, 2008 - 8:04 am 28. Susan:

My husband, my children and I all volunteer on a regular basis. We choose what, where and when. We freely give money to worthy causes.
Obama’s plan takes away free agency.
His plan must be resisted!

Nov 7, 2008 - 8:07 am 29. Cannoneer No. 4:

corvée — (Feudal Law) An obligation to perform certain services, as the repair of roads, for the lord or sovereign.

unpaid labor (as for the maintenance of roads) required by a lord of his vassals in lieu of taxes

Nov 7, 2008 - 8:07 am 30. Mark:

Does President-elect Obama intend to require service, or is he saying that remuneration (scholarships, etc.) will require service? The announcement is ambiguous, but I suspect the latter is the case.

Criticisms are easy to make. Coming up with political plans to counter the strategies of the Democrats will be difficult.

So what are some of the goals that Republicans (for lack of a better unifying descriptor) need to emphasize?

Sarah Palin exemplified some of the possible qualities and goals: prosperity (and energy independence), personal and family responsibility, reform, ecological concern . . . . For me, the question is one of “sustainability,” in the sense of what a culture needs to be reasonably sustainable. Weakening of family, elevation of the state, and marginalizing of religion surely is not a path to sustainability. The left does not want sustainability, it wants power to broker the new society, which is sustained the old-fashioned way, by largesse.

As much as I admire William F. Buckley, we are beyond (and he knew he was beyond, too) the time when we could imagine, somewhat quixotically, standing athwart history and yelling “Stop!”

” . . . . if NATIONAL REVIEW is superfluous, it is so for very different reasons: It stands athwart history, yelling Stop, at a time when no one is inclined to do so, or to have much patience with those who so urge it.

“NATIONAL REVIEW is out of place, in the sense that the United Nations and the League of Women Voters and the New York Times and Henry Steele Commager are in place. It is out of place because, in its maturity, literate America rejected conservatism in favor of radical social experimentation. Instead of covetously consolidating its premises, the United States seems tormented by its tradition of fixed postulates having to do with the meaning of existence, with the relationship of the state to the individual, of the individual to his neighbor, so clearly enunciated in the enabling documents of our Republic.

“I happen to prefer champagne to ditchwater,” said the benign old wrecker of the ordered society, Oliver Wendell Holmes, “but there is no reason to suppose that the cosmos does.”

So what are some positive conservative coooptations/responses to President-elect Obamas ditchwater ideas?

As Claudius remarked (“I, Claudius”) in getting Praetorian Guard second-in-command Macro to do in Sejanus, “Get a dog to kill a dog.” I liked Sarah Palin not as a viable candidate but because she was the only dog we had in the fight.

Nov 7, 2008 - 8:20 am 31. Lilongwe Joe:

I’m usually just a lurker, but Mark’s comments are too outrageous not to answer.

I was a Peace Corps volunteer in Malawi for two years. It was an incredible experience. It certainly gave me a better understanding of the circumstances in other places around the world and enormous respect for the workaday life of so many around the world who do not have the
blessings I had previously taken for granted. But that is an awfully long way from “commitment to international ideals.” Perhaps Mark’s experience is based on self-selection – maybe the folks he knows who are committed to international ideals join Peace Corps rather than Peace Corps fostering that commitment.

If anything, my exposure to “international ideals” in action made me intensely skeptical of the whole project. I believe that the most valuable thing I did for the people of Malawi was to get a World Bank advisor fired. Low-level aid like Peace Corps is far less susceptible to abuse and expropriation than things like massive programs to provide food aid that match what the farmers here want to sell, not what the people there can use, or high-level World Bank projects that distort incentives by attracting away the competent people needed for the everyday business of a country. Too much of the “international ideal” involves massive wealth transfers that are exactly the things I saw abused.

Moreover, I agree wholeheartedly with the other people on this thread who have noted that this is not volunteer at all. Requiring participation will merely dump a huge number of time-servers on so-called “volunteer” organizations, requiring much more management (to ensure the unwilling actually do something) and administration (to track who meets the requirements).

A good Peace Corps situation requires both a willing and engaged volunteer and an opportunity. Significant number of volunteers either wash out or must be reassigned because their position has gone away, or because it turns out they weren’t really ready to handle the stresses of volunteering. Much of the value of Peace Corps to the US, to the host country and to the participants would be lost if it were forced to swallow a huge number of reluctant “volunteers” serving time to meet a new service requirement.

Nov 7, 2008 - 8:31 am 32. Unsk:

Watch out for the next step in the mandatory service scheme form”Office of the President Elect”.

Some posters have commented that children often now are required to do community service. As is my daughter. But which community service is selected by that student optional.

The next step will be to define and control what is approved community service That will be the rub.

Do you think helping the Republican Party get out the vote in 2010 will qualify?

Nov 7, 2008 - 8:55 am 33. The Ratnest » Blog Archive » America Serves | Change.gov:

[...] to Belmont Club for doing the legwork on this one. Sphere: Related [...]

Nov 7, 2008 - 8:59 am 34. Cannoneer No. 4:

I wanted much to go to war,
And went to be examined;
The surgeon looked me o’er and o’er,
My back and chest he hammered.
Said he, You’re not the man for me,
Your lungs are much affected,
And likewise both your eyes are cock’d,
And otherwise defected.
Chorus:
So, now I’m with the invalids,
And cannot go and fight, sir!
The doctor told me so, you know,
Of course it must be right, sir!

While I was there a host of chaps
For reasons were exempted,
Old “pursy”, he was laid aside,
To pass he had attempted.
The doctor said, I do not like
Your corporosity, sir!
You’ll “breed a famine” in the camp
Wherever you might be, sir!

So, now I’m with the invalids,
And cannot go and fight, sir!
The doctor told me so, you know,
Of course it must be right, sir!

There came a fellow, mighty tall,
A “knock-kneed overgrowner”,
The Doctor said, I ain’t got time
To take and look you over.
Next came along a little chap,
Who was ’bout two foot nothing,
The Doctor said, You’d better go
And tell your marm you’re coming!

So, now I’m with the invalids,
And cannot go and fight, sir!
The doctor told me so, you know,
Of course it must be right, sir!

Some had the ticerdolerreou,
Some what they call “brown critters”,
And some were “lank and lazy” too,
Some were too “fond of bitters”.
Some had “cork legs” and some “one eye”,
With backs deformed and crooked,
I’ll bet you’d laugh’d till you had cried,
To see how “cute” they looked.

So, now I’m with the invalids,
And cannot go and fight, sir!
The doctor told me so, you know,
Of course it must be right, sir!

– Invalid Corps

I hope the Veterans will be permitted to have camp fires and adult beverages at night.

Nov 7, 2008 - 9:00 am 35. biggie:

Maybe it will be communism via soup kitchens, but I think that misses the point. Americans donate much money and time to many different causes. We already volunteer. However, how much of this effort coincides with our national interests? Why goto Malawi and not Chicago’s no-go areas? Why should Americans leave the US and volunteer? Why should the ROTW be an automatic recipient of US aid that could be (perhaps) more easily and more productively utilized over here? Create more incentives for volunteers to stay and work here and good things may happen. Or not. Is it not even worth trying?

Again, people act like we’re leaving 8 years of stellar gilding leadership.

Nov 7, 2008 - 9:18 am 36. Nortius Maximus:

Biggie: Talk about missing the point. What part of “compulsory” matches your use of the word “volunteer”? And what part of that contrast has one quark to do with who has been in the White House for eight years? This second point isn’t even apples and oranges — it’s mixing apples and screwdrivers.

Nov 7, 2008 - 9:55 am 37. steveaz:

The progressive method relies on the campusing of America’s youths, be it on a college campus, or in front of a television. Barack’s program’s traits bear this out.

His system picks up inductees at the suggestible mid-to-late teens and places them on his campuses, then after they graduate they are shunted on to the next ’services’ campus. And then, finally, after performing their ’services’ in the last campus, they are retired to final ‘veterans’ campuses.

Each of these campuses require a steady flow of ‘credentialed’ workers into his system’s ancillary campuses, like those relating to ‘health,’ and ‘peace.’ Indeed, no child IS left un-campused, and his keep is tax-payer funded.

Furthermore, his system of campuses is designed to be self-priming, inter-active, and to grow. Each new campus requires hives and hives of worker bees to administer to its wards (as in Nicolas Cage’s “The Wicker Man,” 2006 Warner Bro’s.), so official credential-ing campuses will be proliferated to provide all of the Campus Admin’s. that will be needed to campus their charges.

This proliferation alone, it is hoped, will spur demand for their campuses’ teaching credentials, as an endless stream of ‘graduated’ campus inductees is expected, and each will need a credential. In fact, deliberately requiring that aspiring teachers themselves must graduate the system’s ‘education’ campuses in order to ‘teach’ at the official, accrediting campuses will only add millions of suggestible, pre-conditioned ’students’ to these campuses.

BTW: Once you’ll allow that a ‘campus’ is any conceivable artificial ‘field,’ where humans are organized by a series of incentives and disincentives, the battle-lines of larger institutional wars suddenly become crystal clear. Answers to questions, like, “Why does Columbia University prohibit ROTC recruitment on their campus?” and “Why did the Nazi’s let the Jews keep their luggage with them on the trains?” suddenly become painfully obvious.

Nov 7, 2008 - 9:59 am 38. biggie:

Apples and screwdrivers…

Now that you mention it, BLOODY BARRY will necessarily WRECK our fragile Roman-esque nation by expanding volunteer programs, even creating new ones, that incentivize, in one way or another, community service. Oh, and we will force students to do work. Perish the thought!

Under the writ of Pope John Paul II I had to do subversive community service prior to Confirmation, so I’ve been as oppressed as you’re about to be. A more unambiguous threat to the republic, I cannot recall.

Do you prefer to be told to shop for our national interest? Imagine if Bush had proposed what Obama is proposing, when the fiery concrete in NY was still several weeks into burning, when the images of jumpers were fresh in our memories. What wouldn’t we have given then?

Finally, if Republicans took even a passing interest in organizing their own GOP community, none of “this” would have happened.

Nov 7, 2008 - 10:26 am 39. Lilongwe Joe:

For what its worth, I have volunteered as well on the south side of Chicago… the Food Depository does a great job facilitating volunteers. But this is simple enough to do any time I want, without real disruption of my life. However, that could well change if the various volunteer organizations I’ve worked with are required to manage and administer the press-ganged “volunteers” contemplated in the scheme described above.

Volunteering in Malawi is not somehow more worthy or exclusive of volunteering in Chicago. Part of the notion of volunteering is that it is the volunteer’s choice which group receives the volunteer’s time, effort and support and even whether to volunteer at all. Removing this choice saps volunteering of much of its merit, and would likely sap the volunteers of much of the enthusiasm that can make them so valuable.

I believe that encouraging true volunteers is in our national interest. As biggie says, Americans do a tremendous job in this regard already. Americans are drawn to give their time, talent and treasure to many causes domestic and international based on their interests and beliefs, and this yields tremendous benefits to the volunteers, to their chosen causes and to the nation at large. But the government will simply kill the goose that lays this golden egg if it tries to direct this effort, this enthusiasm into selected causes.

Biggie, perhaps you are unaware of Americorps, described by some as a domestic Peace Corps. There already are “incentives for volunteers to stay and work here” through that program (started by Clinton from the rubble of VISTA and expanded by Bush). However, I wasn’t interested in that sort of program, and would not have volunteered on that level if that were the only choice. Perhaps you should explore the volunteer opportunities that are out there instead of judging the worth of the volunteer efforts of others from the sidelines.

Nov 7, 2008 - 10:28 am 40. PiltdownMan:

I forwarded the original link from “The One’s” change.gov website to a few friends, one of whom grew up in China. Her response:

This is what I worried about. Having lived in communism half of my life.

We were always “required” to volunteer in many society improving and anti-oppression activities and services. The ideas sounded great. A country hungry for CHANGE from government corruption and foreign power and poverty was looking to Mao as our messiah. Foreign journalists like Edgard Snow interviewed the communists including Mao escorted by appointed people and came back to America and fed the government and media with one-sided story, and Chinese intellectuals like my grandfather were ignorant of what the communists had already done in their occupied territories, and they were so thirsty for change that they sincerely believed Mao would bring in the change he promised.

Change did happen. The rich were no longer rich, but the poor became poorer. The people who supported Mao was next day anti-revolutionists. So my point is, communism socialism and sharing wealth with the community is all great ideas, if human is without sin. But when people are sinful and sin transcends gender, race, economic status, straight or gay, then we would be naive to look for social changes to have much effect.

Nov 7, 2008 - 10:42 am 41. biggie:

Volunteering in Malawi may serve US interests. It’s worth inquiring whether this is the case now and in the future. From the sidelines over here, greedy taxpayer that I am, I’d prefer expenditure on these programs to serve a national interest, today and tomorrow.

The government can change the incentives for these programs, to increase and broaden their appeal. And we’ll force students to do work. I do not understand why we tolerate the suggestion that this will inevitably be a boon to leftists, a march towards naziism or manifestely slavery or communism. These are our communities, our parks, our schools, our illiterates, our mentally ill. Many people are likely willing to help them. If they are not, is it because, as Lilongwe Joe suggest, they’re ignorant assholes?

The Federal Compassion is already a player in the volunteer game. If the GOP wants to undermine Federal Compassion, it needs to make a compelling case for it. I would ask the US opposition: is your goal the proper divination of corporate recipients into which we extend The Federal Compassion or will it be PERFORMANCE of the programs we fund?

IMO, PERFORMANCE would be about the ONLY thing the GOP could use as leverage in the near future.

Nov 7, 2008 - 11:12 am 42. PiltdownMan:

Personally, I’m all for community volunteerism. But the paragraphs on change.gov are a bit vague on exactly who decides what projects would be worked on in each community. Perhaps I should ask a community organizer…

My main concern with this is, how’s it going to be paid for?

Nov 7, 2008 - 11:34 am 43. Salt Lick:

Every Peace Corps volunteer I have met … has developed a sense of global understanding and commitment to international ideals. Each one has been longing for an expansion of the program, and others like it.

As a former Peace Corps volunteer (Kenya 1977-79) I call bullshit. Most of the RPCV’s who share your ideology are also looking for government or NGO jobs. That’s why they support an expansion of the programs. Mostly so they can get cheap nannies for their kids in 3rd world countries.

Before leaving for my assignment, I worked to get Jimmy Carter elected. What he did while I was overseas turned me into a life-long conservative. I watched Carter cancel weapons systems and in return for his peace overtures, the USSR and its Cuban proxies invaded Ethiopia, Angola, Afghanistan, and Nicaraugua. His policies threw the US into a malaise that almost destroyed us.

Nov 7, 2008 - 11:55 am 44. Roderick Reilly:

“”"”"”"”"However, how much of this effort coincides with our national interests?”"”"”"”"”

National interests? If we are no longer truly a nation, what with “open” borders, globalism, non-citizens voting, European demands for “tax harmony,” Belgian lawyers demanding to try our troops for “war crimes”, etc., then where’s the “national interest?”

Nov 7, 2008 - 12:01 pm 45. Aristide:

Social Justice it’s a “biggie”!

Nov 7, 2008 - 12:10 pm 46. dan:

it’s too bad we don’t have a conservative educational effort to require, since there is no line-item veto yet, that all these volunteers will read at least two books about the KGB and the Comintern.

Nov 7, 2008 - 12:15 pm 47. Bill in NC:

This is not hard. Volunteering, in its myriad forms, is good. Being made to volunteer by the government (as distinct from a church to which you voluntarily belong and can leave at any time) is bad.

If. Mr. Nedow can sue repeatedly to discontinue the Pledge of Allegiance and remove “In God We Trust” from the currency, the Administration will have the mother of all class actions under the 13th Amendment on its hands.

Nov 7, 2008 - 12:22 pm 48. Vogz:

We should deploy a highly experienced saboteur to infiltrate the transition team committee meetings. I recommend Iowahawk.

Nov 7, 2008 - 12:31 pm 49. Cannoneer No. 4:

In a federal republic, Non-Governmental Organizations can mobilize volunteers for projects at the neighborhood, community, town, beat, ward, township, precinct, municipal, county and state levels, in some measure of cooperation with whatever government entities would normally be concerned.

The Obama Freikorps is a Federal conscript force held to unpaid, unskilled labor for the Public Health Service, DOE and VA through force or the threat of the use of force, or extortion. PHS, DOE and VA Auxiliaries, analogous to the Coast Guard Auxiliary, staffed by uncoerced volunteers with real enthusiasm for the mission would be great, but that’s not what these are.

Nov 7, 2008 - 12:47 pm 50. sirius_sir:

Canoneer, personally I like the sounds of the League of American Maidens.

I wonder how long before somebody in the Obamanation comes up with the following: Arbeit Macht Frei

Nov 7, 2008 - 12:52 pm 51. Mark:

Aristide writes:

“Social Justice it’s a ‘biggie’”!

Thank you for the link.

If anyone doubts the extent to which the apparatus for “change” is already in place in higher education, please follow Aristide’s link and visit each of the site pages. There you will see New York State taxes at work creating social change in the higher education and K-12 schools.

So the programs are now best practices, have shown positive results, and now can be eligible for funding to hire the Americorps students, who will be assigned to the schools, to implement the best practices, to effect social change, which is needed because, at the center of everything, as the diagram shows, is “Dominant Group Idealogy” . . . .

And remember, “Everyone in schools contributes to the meaning of schooling, teaching, and learning. Teachers perpetuate ideology through curriculum (content), pedagogy, and everyday actions.”

Bill Ayers, you pretty much won.

Nov 7, 2008 - 1:03 pm 52. RWE:

In the mid-90’s a bill was proposed in Congress that would require those receiving public housing assistance to help clean the places up, at least pick up the trash in the yard. I believe it was Maxine Waters who stood in Congress and stated this was grossly unfair because people who received a tax deduction for their home mortgage interest payments were not required to pick up the trash around their homes in order to get that deduction.

She went on to say that such inequitable treatment was similar to the oppression of the “Evil Empire” – the USSR. This brought howls of laughter from the rest of Congress. And then they voted the measure down.

So how many of the poor oppressed who will benefit from this volunteerism will themselves volunteer? Or will merely asking that question will be equated to will be Soviet style slavery?

Nov 7, 2008 - 1:06 pm 53. Cannoneer No. 4:

The VA already has chartered Veterans Service Organizations, membership in which is all volunteer.

Nov 7, 2008 - 1:10 pm 54. JMH:

Obama in his press conference today was talking about the tax cut plan he touted during the election (you remember, the tax cut for 95% of people?). He said his plan “would have cut taxes…” and “would have” done this, that, and the other thing.

Would have?

I guess that tax cut ain’t happenin’ eh?

Nov 7, 2008 - 1:14 pm 55. Cannoneer No. 4:

National Health Service Corps

Nov 7, 2008 - 1:15 pm 56. Cannoneer No. 4:

HealthCorps

Nov 7, 2008 - 1:16 pm 57. Cannoneer No. 4:

National Health Corps

Nov 7, 2008 - 1:18 pm 58. Cannoneer No. 4:

Clean Energy Corps

Work with [extort] employers, unions, educators, and community organizations to put more Americans, particularly the low-income and unemployed, on green-collar career pathways — providing them the training, credentials, work experience, job placement, and other essential elements for good and secure jobs in the clean energy economy;

The Recycling Bin and Thermostat Polizei.

Nov 7, 2008 - 1:26 pm 59. LFMayor:

I like this not. Don’t get caught up in fiddling while the fires are still small people. Organize. Network. Plan. Garner useful things that might soon be legislated out of reach (for the children!). Once the train crests the hill and starts down the other side these things will be much harder to accomplish.

Nov 7, 2008 - 1:32 pm 60. Cannoneer No. 4:

Exactly, LFMayor. We have a permissive window of 75 days left to take actions and acquire necessaries. Do it now while it’s still legal.

Nov 7, 2008 - 1:46 pm 61. Konyok:

I guess it’s just me …

In retrospect this whole “community service” thing is going to be the biggest joke of “The One’s” pretensions. Remember Gerald Ford’s WIN – Whip Inflation Now?

He is bought and paid for by the unions. The unions will not allow anything that dilutes their membership. They certainly want a lot of brand new union represented federal jobs – the last thing that they would accept would be temporary *volunteers* wandering hither and yon.

Fuggedaboutit!

Nov 7, 2008 - 1:53 pm 62. Konyok:

Cannoneer #57

Only if unemployment reaches stratospheric levels. (>15%)

Yes, we have seen amazing things, so I can’t say it *can’t* happen. But, it’s bloody unlikely.

Americans aren’t torchlight marchers and the union bosses just want dues.

Nov 7, 2008 - 1:57 pm 63. Cannoneer No. 4:

In the not too distant future the surviving Americans won’t need torches.

That part of the mob that glows in the dark will provide all necessary ambient illumination.

Nov 7, 2008 - 2:19 pm 64. Cannoneer No. 4:

sirius_sir, it sounds much less ominous than Bund Amerikanischer Mädel, doesn’t it?

There doesn’t seem to be much historical awareness in the Obama camp. Or maybe there is way too much.

Nov 7, 2008 - 2:34 pm 65. Konyok:

Cannoneer,

I missed a couple of steps there, mate.

I thought that we were talking about Senator Government’s *volunteer* initiatives, now you’ve got us glowing in the dark.

IMHO the thing to worry about, right now, is what the new regime is going to do with the monies already appropriated and the authority already given to SecCom for the “bailout.” Then there’s the new and improved stimulus package that SanFranNan has promised us. Will there be some kind of more formal nationalization of the banking industry? This will be the tip of the spear, not some cockamamie youth movement scheme. (I’m sure that The One salivates over the idea as much you fear it, but it’s not in the cards any time soon. We’d sooner see social security privatization … )

Nov 7, 2008 - 2:42 pm 66. peterike:

by developing a plan to require 50 hours of community service in middle school

You realize, don’t ya’ll, that this means kids who are ELEVEN years old?

And what’s “community service”? Working on “green” projects while watching Al Gore’s lie-fest every week? Working in soup kitchens and learning about the brutality of capitalism? Working on “racial awareness” projects where the kids sit around and condemn whitey? Working on “gender awareness” projects where the eleven year olds hear all about the happy gay couple? Working on “one world” projects where they learn all about how terrible Western Civ is and how bigoted Christians are?

Yeah, I can only IMAGINE the Columbus Day community service they’ll dream up.

This is pure indoctrination.

Nov 7, 2008 - 2:50 pm 67. Cannoneer No. 4:

Youth Serves the Führer

Nov 7, 2008 - 2:50 pm 68. Cannoneer No. 4:

Well, konyok, you worry about what concerns you the most and I’ll worry about piddly stuff like involuntary servitude, totalitarian indoctrination and Chemical, Biological, Radiological/Nuclear, and Explosive mass casualty events.

May the best preparer live!

Nov 7, 2008 - 2:59 pm 69. whiskey:

This is fertile ground for Republicans who wish to take it.

Mandatory 100 hours of service means cutting part-time jobs which most non-rich (that’s nearly all) College Students have.

For guys, money in their pockets is a critical component to dating success. For women, well it means keeping up with their girlfriends.

For guys, a commercial that has some guy on the roadside, in an ugly uniform, picking up trash, complaining that all this service got him fired from his part-time job, had to sell his car, so his girlfriend dumped him, cut to a rival with a convertible, ex-girlfriend by his side, pulling up and laughing at him, then zooming off, cut to: OBAMA: We REQUIRE you to work at our bidding, well, that’s a winner.

Young men in College care about one thing only. That’s not volunteering. Color this the “Obama will make sure you lose your car and girlfriend” program and you get a whole generation of male voters. Young women of course will love this, they will get the cool stuff, while young guys get picking up trash by the side of the road.

REally, classic overreach if Reps can take advantage. Obama’s Corps means no jobs and thus cars and gas/insurance for young men. A car is critical to dating success. Which is what college-age young men care about.

Nov 7, 2008 - 3:23 pm 70. Fritz:

California already has compulsory “volunteer” hours requirements for middle and high school students. If you spend a couple of hours raking leaves at the church it counts towards your hours.

Nov 7, 2008 - 3:49 pm 71. Talnik:

“Obama will call on citizens of all ages to serve America…” to wait hand and foot on people who won’t work.

Nov 7, 2008 - 4:22 pm 72. Konyok:

Cannoneer,

One must prepare for the most probable threats. Determining the probability of threats requires analysis, not analogies. Obama is proposing some hoakie feel good volunteer programs and the forum is galloping across the prairie with a Hitlerjugend panic.
That the notion resembles totalitarian social organizations is definitely good reason to investigate the matter.
At some point, however, it becomes necessary to stop thinking about the best analogy for the threat and to begin thinking about the pathways for the potential threat to become manifest, how likely the potential is, and what steps can be taken to counter the threat.

It is suggestive that Obama choses to emphasize THIS from the starting gate as president-elect. (I do like his cute podium. He learned from the Obama-for-president seal flap, but still is a vainglorious fool.) It almost seems that he believes in this silliness, and it will be his first huge mistake.
By definition, Congress is dominated by special interests. Once they are elected, they have to turn around and begin campaigning again.
Putting the grand Gramscian “master plan” aside for a moment, can you think of a single group that benefits from ambitious national service programs? The only one that I can come up with is ACORN. There are still enough of us that we can raise a mighty stink – think Dubai Ports. This would be a godsend to conservatives because it would give us a single, identifiable issue to focus on: Obama wants to give a lot of money to the voter registration fraud people.

Can you really imagine that the NEA or AFT would allow great numbers of volunteer teacher’s aides in America’s classrooms? Their entire strategy the last couple of decades has been to promote ever greater certification of teachers. They are rightfully afraid of being replaced and will take no chances. This is a great sounding idea to pitch to the idealistic rubes, but will never, ever happen.
The same is true of AFSCME and the firefighter and police unions around the country. They will all cheer loudly and quietly kill any implementation.

The only proposal that has a chance is the service requirement to graduate high school. We’ve already been moving in that direction for some years now. It began with bake sales to save the rain forest and now many school districts already require volunteering in homeless shelter or rehabilitating creeks to graduate. This piece could be couched in “idle hands” rhetoric and sold to a lot of people. The local control obstacle has already been eroded by No Child Left Behind, but requiring a specific graduation criterion like this would be a very tall order.
Whiskey correctly points out that such a national program would present a tremendous opportunity for Republicans to burnish their libertarian credentials.

The analogies that everybody is discussing break down because of economics. The historical examples are very different from 2008 America. The totalitarian states had twin problems of lack of capital and excess labor. They certainly tried to make as much agitprop hay as they could, but ultimately these programs were driven by economics – canals had to be dug and crops harvested. We have no such economic need now, the entire notion is driven by aesthetic ideas. (Now, of course Obama could surprise us all and deport all of the illegals, in which case there will be a need for a captive source of cheap labor … )

Nov 7, 2008 - 4:52 pm 73. someone:

biggie I don’t like it for the simple reason that my child will be FORCED to do it. I’m the type that does not like to be told what to do by government or anyone really.

Ya, ya, taxes, etc…

Nov 7, 2008 - 5:29 pm 74. RWE:

Konyok:

You’ve hit upon it with your last sentence!

Back to the fields!

POL POTT LIVES AGAIN!

Nov 7, 2008 - 5:30 pm 75. Voltimand:

Konyok #71 has hit the right pitch and volume: this latest Obomination does indeed offer juicy opportunities for anti-democratic railing and demonstrations. I would suggest along a similar and parallel line that in a congress dominated by demon-crats in both houses that those who want to make a difference start using the online sites for contacting representatives and senators for messages sent to people outside one’s own district. Tell them that though you don’t have a privilege of voting to send them back home permanently, you still have the opportunity to tell them how much you Obominate their stances on whatever Obamanoid legislative initiative is current. Threaten to send monetary support to whatever Republican is running against them. They will come to note that even though that can’t count own your negative vote, they can count on your political animosity as part of and therefore symptomatic of a larger national animosity against them.

And, yes, we can all start doing with this anent this latest Michelle crack-the-whip stiletto-heel inspiration. Tell them off. Insult them. Insult their mothers. No “cozy period” for Obama. Fighting to the death from the get-go.

Nov 7, 2008 - 6:03 pm 76. bogie wheel:

As others have noted, ordinary Americans are quite good at spontaneously organizing and solving problems. There are exceptions, of course, but generally and historically speaking, individual intiative is one of our great national traits.

We don’t need the federal government, for chrissake, in the business of directing 16-year-olds to go paint old ladies’ houses on weekends. The federal government’s business is straightforwardly laid out in the Constitution and is limited to just a few things. One of which would be, y’know, keeping foreign enemies from slaughtering American citizens in their own cities and workplaces.

Oh, wait.

What a shame those passengers on Flight 93 didn’t wait for the master plan from D.C. re: the “Take Back the Plane Corps.” Think how much they could have benefitted from a Washington bureaucrat’s PowerPoint presentation on “organizational leadership” and “group dynamics.” (Oh! And let’s not forget the sensitivity training!)

Nov 7, 2008 - 6:03 pm 77. qrstuv:

I am astonished that anyone defends this.

It’s one thing to take my money. It’s quite another to take my time.

Nov 7, 2008 - 7:11 pm 78. Royal:

I find it ironic that the same people who say that God cannot be part of the classroom because it could lead to peer pressure, ridicule, discrimination or INDOCTRINATION are the same people who would defend a REQUIREMENT of community service.

First of all, who decides what is “worthy”? What if a person is presented 3 choices and they all are varying forms of an agenda the person does not support? What if the person is then labeled as intolerant because they do not believe in abortion (working for organizations that promote/fund abortion) or they promote a political or social agenda they do not support?

This is a tool that cannot be allowed to exist in the educational system. Besides the fact it is impractical, and would likely lead to a massive drop out rate, the idea of punishing or criminalizing failure to comply with the government’s standard of “community service” is absurd. This has incrementalism or “mission creep” written all over it.

Additionally, this is the sort of project that, even if well intentioned, is still a mechanism for government control IN THE FUTURE. I can’t wait for the other Civilian Force As Powerful and As Funded as our Military or whatever the hell it is called, or whatever the hell it is.

This is directly out of the Saul Alinksy playbook and should be rejected out of hand, based on American Principles.

The disaster of the American Public School system has enough indoctrination in it already. Adding another 50 hours, from MIDDLE SCHOOL onward?

Don’t even get me started on congress looking to approve CARDCHECK for unions. Even that hard core conservative George McGovern is against the murder of the secret ballot.

We have already crossed the Rubicon I fear.

Nov 7, 2008 - 7:52 pm 79. Voltimand:

The internet and blogs like this one, I predict, will be in the vanguard of organizing resistance to an Obama government. When will they start using some sort of “fairness” doctrine to control the internet. I predict that this will come sooner or later.

Nov 7, 2008 - 8:41 pm 80. YoungCollegette:

As Savage Said, this actually might get those drug beats and potheads off their spoiled asses and out doing something. I believe it will distract the kids from each other and having nothing better to do that have sex and getting abortions.

However, I fall under the age category in which I am required to donate my time(where I could be studying or working) to “volunteer.” Oh! But I get $4k for my service to pay my college expenses.

And my 60+ year old father will be recruited into some job that he may not be able to do.

Some may see it as a forced socialistic change, some may see it as a blessing. Regardless, if it really does happen. Who is funding this?

Nov 7, 2008 - 8:44 pm 81. whiskey:

Obama had a quick turn-around and now says it will be “voluntary.”

Also, he had to call Nancy Reagan and apologize.

This is just his THIRD DAY as President Elect. This Jay-Z clone is a total Clown.

Nov 7, 2008 - 8:56 pm 82. RDS:

They intend to get ALL middle school and high school students participating in volunteer work by withholding federal funding for schools that do not comply with providing programs and getting the students into them.

What kind of “choice” is that?

And they will get the college kids to “volunteer” 100 hours/yr by giving them a $4,000 tax credit — in other words, having you and me the taxpayer pay them FORTY DOLLARS AN HOUR to “volunteer” — for pay!

Listen to the words come right out of his mouth in this official BarackObama video clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIpWCj-NF2c

He says in the video that they’ll make federal funds to schools conditional on compliance with the volunteer program.

The helpful graphics then reiterate the point, so there is no misunderstanding.

The relevant parts start about 2 minutes in.

And on their older official website,
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/service/

“Integrate service into learning:
Obama and Biden will set a goal that ALL middle and high school students do 50 hours of community service a year, and will establish a new tax credit that is worth $4,000 a year in exchange for 100 hours of public service a year.”

And you can bet that being in Boy Scouts of Junior ROTC won’t count, because they exclude homosexuals; but registering Democrats for ACORN is going to be dandy.

Nov 7, 2008 - 9:45 pm 83. joe:

Think Hitler Youth.

Nov 7, 2008 - 10:36 pm 84. bogie wheel:

Accepting government funds for just about anything, but especially federal funds, is a devil’s bargain. Them what pays the piper calls the tune.

It would be lovely to see local education bureaucrats get into a cafeteria-style food fight with Washington education bureaucrats over the federal funding threat. I don’t expect it to happen, but it would be lovely to see.

Because maybe the light bulb would go on for some parents (i.e., voters) who currently don’t think much about such things, like “Why the f*** is my kid’s school taking money from Washington in the first place? Isn’t that what our property taxes are for? And what about that bond issue we voted on last year?”

Like I said, lovely to see … but I’m not holding my breath.

Nov 8, 2008 - 6:06 am 85. bogie wheel:

As Savage Said, this actually might get those drug beats and potheads off their spoiled asses and out doing something. I believe it will distract the kids from each other and having nothing better to do that have sex and getting abortions.

At best, only a marginal number of this demographic would respond and stick with the program. A lazy-ass deadbeat will be a lazy-ass deadbeat, regardless of the color of skin of the President who enjoins all the lazy-ass deadbeats of America to clean up their act.

This is the problem with emotion-driven campaigns. Once the euphoria wears off, as euphoria inevitably does, where does that leave you?

SELF-motivation is the only motivation that sticks. It’s the only motivation that weathers through every condition regardless of external factors. Unless you are able to go through life with your own personal drill sergeant, you had better possess some degree of self-motivation or else find a way to enjoy living on macaroni and cat food.

Real, actual change (as opposed to fancy rhetoric about change) takes place, when it takes place, at the ground level in people’s lives. The ones who make the most impact in our lives are the ones who have a constant presence. A hard-working black father who stays married & faithful to his wife will do far more for his kids’ chances of success than a thousand government programs. A President Obama, inspirational as he may be in the moment, will never make up for the lack of such a father in a kid’s life. (And Obama would be the one to know.)

As a society, we can keep looking for, and spending trillions of dollars on, substitutes for the family. But it’s a futile quest, IMO.

Nov 8, 2008 - 6:45 am 86. fred:

How is it that Ivy League grads not notice how dumbed-down our education system is, and not understand how to reverse that process? Instead, they suggest community service work. When real education reform is what is needed.

I don’t think we’ll see an Obama administration that believes in school vouchers, choice, and the abolition of the Department of Education.

Nov 8, 2008 - 8:56 am 87. Cetera:

So, Obama’s site has changed with updated verbage to make it all sound more voluntary. Does anyone have a screenshot of the original in their browser cache?

Nov 8, 2008 - 9:13 am 88. fred:

Is anyone here aware that Obama’s official web site is run by an open Communist by the name of Sam Graham-Felsen? Do ya think we can trust the information management skills of one who subscribes to an ideology whose ethics are best described as “ethics of expediency?”

Nov 8, 2008 - 9:48 am 89. Cannoneer No. 4:

Cetera,

http://74.125.45.104/search?q=cache:f_Q-RMW-DJoJ:www.change.gov/americaserves/+http://change.gov/americaserves/&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us

Nov 8, 2008 - 10:05 am 90. Cannoneer No. 4:

Sorry about above. Moderator please delete.

Nov 8, 2008 - 10:06 am 91. Cannoneer No. 4:

Cetera,

http://tinyurl.com/6l3fnv

Originally read Obama will call on citizens of all ages to serve America, by developing a plan to require 50 hours of community service in middle school and high school and 100 hours of community service in college every year.

changed to

Obama will call on citizens of all ages to serve America, by setting a goal that all middle school and high school students do 50 hours of community service a year and by developing a plan so that all college students who conduct 100 hours of community service receive a universal and fully refundable tax credit ensuring that the first $4,000 of their college education is completely free.

Nov 8, 2008 - 10:14 am 92. Cannoneer No. 4:

@ 79. Voltimand:

The Counter Insurgent Supportive blogosphere that tried to

Support The Military

Care For The Wounded

Remember The Fallen

Honor The Sacrifices

whether or not they recognize themselves as such, are potential cadre for Former Regime Loyalist efforts to de-program the cultists of the new regime and reinvigorate the demoralized.

The Belmont Club is uniquely positioned for a leadership role among oppositional web based Patriot Information Support Teams, because wretchard is off-shore and a veteran of the anti-Marcos resistance.

The Internet in America will be controlled. Oppositional blogs will be pulled, smacked down, or harrassed until the bloggers give up. Off shore blogs will last a bit longer. Pass-word protected, vetted members only forums will last longer still. Pajamahadeen should study the TTP’s of the e-hadis if they expect to keep communicating.

Nov 8, 2008 - 11:04 am 93. Cetera:

Thanks Cannonneer, you do good work.

Nov 8, 2008 - 12:51 pm 94. Ms. Know:

They will have no choice but to call on everyone, the socialist illuminati are going to depend on our tax dollars to get over this economic struggle.

Nov 15, 2008 - 9:03 am

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