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	<title>Comments on: Newspapers in crisis</title>
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		<title>By: Leo Linbeck III</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/11/16/newspapers-in-crisis/comment-page-1/#comment-22651</link>
		<dc:creator>Leo Linbeck III</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Nov 2008 04:46:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=1036#comment-22651</guid>
		<description>Ed Giese,

Excellent post. Brands die slowly, but brands that abandon the reason for their success do die. Eventually.

Cheers.

L3</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ed Giese,</p>
<p>Excellent post. Brands die slowly, but brands that abandon the reason for their success do die. Eventually.</p>
<p>Cheers.</p>
<p>L3</p>
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		<title>By: exDemocrat</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/11/16/newspapers-in-crisis/comment-page-1/#comment-22538</link>
		<dc:creator>exDemocrat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Nov 2008 19:22:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=1036#comment-22538</guid>
		<description>If you haven&#039;t read Ayn Rand&#039;s &quot;Atlas Shrugged,&quot; it&#039;s time.

A 50-year-old masterpiece that illuminates today&#039;s world and gives strength to fight.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you haven&#8217;t read Ayn Rand&#8217;s &#8220;Atlas Shrugged,&#8221; it&#8217;s time.</p>
<p>A 50-year-old masterpiece that illuminates today&#8217;s world and gives strength to fight.</p>
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		<title>By: exDemocrat</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/11/16/newspapers-in-crisis/comment-page-1/#comment-22536</link>
		<dc:creator>exDemocrat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Nov 2008 19:06:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=1036#comment-22536</guid>
		<description>I will do everything in my power to destroy these marxist b*stards.

Let&#039;s roll.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I will do everything in my power to destroy these marxist b*stards.</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s roll.</p>
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		<title>By: Ed Giese</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/11/16/newspapers-in-crisis/comment-page-1/#comment-22523</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed Giese</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Nov 2008 16:58:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=1036#comment-22523</guid>
		<description>@L3
These threads about dying newspapers occur often in the blogosphere, and very often they start with ideologically partisan comments like &quot;serves them right,&quot; followed by a few who write, with sadness, that the newspapers were doomed not by their partisanship but the changing business model necessitated by technology.  I think that the bigger picture is that both viewpoints are spot on.

From its very start, the idea of impartial &quot;professional&quot; journalism was an illusion, though a very profitable one in the 1900s.  Of course, to keep a straight face while saying one is &quot;totally objective&quot; in &quot;reporting news,&quot; there is a certain amount of drudgery in chasing down actual facts and reporting enough of both sides to avoid criticism.  There is still a lot of room for bias that flies beneath the radar.  Well, the MSM flew up into just about everyone&#039;s radar zone this past election, and they heartily deserve any laughs they must endure about their value-- value rooted as it has been for a century in their vaunted objectivity.

The institutional bias of large MSM organs reached its highest power, in my opinion, in their overreach during the Vietnam conflict.  I can hardly blame them for wanting to relive the glory days.  It&#039;s been downhill since then, first driven by cable TV, and more recently in a big way by the internet.

No amount of Orwellian interference by the government will be able to hold back the tide.  I don&#039;t doubt that some in government have the desire, but the technology is simply too explosive.  Short of totally outlawing the internet, Americans are simply too entrepreneurial and innovative to meekly stand down in the face of information bullying.

The real interesting questions are actually epistemological.  What mechanisms for truth seeking and truth telling will evolve when bias, fact reporting, and public cogitation are all decentralized?  People are still willing to pay for facts, but what business model will emerge to employ the minority of people who love to find and tell them?

There is much cause for optimism.  The internet has the potential for vastly better fact checking than all of the letters to the editor and ombudsmen in the world.  And Wretchard, the day will surely come when Google doesn&#039;t get most of the profits from click-ads, and folks like yourself who write so well will find that rewards for one&#039;s efforts can be far more profitable and reliable than a tip jar.  I still remember when Microsoft would always be on top, and before that, Lotus.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@L3<br />
These threads about dying newspapers occur often in the blogosphere, and very often they start with ideologically partisan comments like &#8220;serves them right,&#8221; followed by a few who write, with sadness, that the newspapers were doomed not by their partisanship but the changing business model necessitated by technology.  I think that the bigger picture is that both viewpoints are spot on.</p>
<p>From its very start, the idea of impartial &#8220;professional&#8221; journalism was an illusion, though a very profitable one in the 1900s.  Of course, to keep a straight face while saying one is &#8220;totally objective&#8221; in &#8220;reporting news,&#8221; there is a certain amount of drudgery in chasing down actual facts and reporting enough of both sides to avoid criticism.  There is still a lot of room for bias that flies beneath the radar.  Well, the MSM flew up into just about everyone&#8217;s radar zone this past election, and they heartily deserve any laughs they must endure about their value&#8211; value rooted as it has been for a century in their vaunted objectivity.</p>
<p>The institutional bias of large MSM organs reached its highest power, in my opinion, in their overreach during the Vietnam conflict.  I can hardly blame them for wanting to relive the glory days.  It&#8217;s been downhill since then, first driven by cable TV, and more recently in a big way by the internet.</p>
<p>No amount of Orwellian interference by the government will be able to hold back the tide.  I don&#8217;t doubt that some in government have the desire, but the technology is simply too explosive.  Short of totally outlawing the internet, Americans are simply too entrepreneurial and innovative to meekly stand down in the face of information bullying.</p>
<p>The real interesting questions are actually epistemological.  What mechanisms for truth seeking and truth telling will evolve when bias, fact reporting, and public cogitation are all decentralized?  People are still willing to pay for facts, but what business model will emerge to employ the minority of people who love to find and tell them?</p>
<p>There is much cause for optimism.  The internet has the potential for vastly better fact checking than all of the letters to the editor and ombudsmen in the world.  And Wretchard, the day will surely come when Google doesn&#8217;t get most of the profits from click-ads, and folks like yourself who write so well will find that rewards for one&#8217;s efforts can be far more profitable and reliable than a tip jar.  I still remember when Microsoft would always be on top, and before that, Lotus.</p>
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		<title>By: MarkL</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/11/16/newspapers-in-crisis/comment-page-1/#comment-22497</link>
		<dc:creator>MarkL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Nov 2008 11:44:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=1036#comment-22497</guid>
		<description>Q. Why is the (Australian) Financial Review making money as a print newspaper if the above is true?

A. Because the Financial Review understands that NEW facts sell. And the customers KNOW that NEW facts are valuable enough to buy. And they also know that NEW facts are expensive to get hold of, but worth it to do so. And so, to hell with the cost of the paper - it is worth it.

On top of that, the Financial Review&#039;s editors understand something else. They understand that they cannot bullshit their readership. It is commercial death to do so and they know it. So they enforce a breathtakingly revolutionary radical methodology on their reporters. Something the NYT, the Melbourne Age and Sydney Morning Herald have never heard of. 

It is called JOURNALISM:
1. State what the facts are
2. State what is NOT known yet (this is also a promise to look for it)
3. State your analysis (tell the reader what the reporter thinks)
4. Make absolutely bloody certain that the reader understands which of the above is which

If the Melbourne Age, NYT etc are too damned stupid or blinded by ideology to do the above, good riddance to them. I for one will dance a jig on their graves.

MarkL
Not in Canberra at all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Q. Why is the (Australian) Financial Review making money as a print newspaper if the above is true?</p>
<p>A. Because the Financial Review understands that NEW facts sell. And the customers KNOW that NEW facts are valuable enough to buy. And they also know that NEW facts are expensive to get hold of, but worth it to do so. And so, to hell with the cost of the paper &#8211; it is worth it.</p>
<p>On top of that, the Financial Review&#8217;s editors understand something else. They understand that they cannot bullshit their readership. It is commercial death to do so and they know it. So they enforce a breathtakingly revolutionary radical methodology on their reporters. Something the NYT, the Melbourne Age and Sydney Morning Herald have never heard of. </p>
<p>It is called JOURNALISM:<br />
1. State what the facts are<br />
2. State what is NOT known yet (this is also a promise to look for it)<br />
3. State your analysis (tell the reader what the reporter thinks)<br />
4. Make absolutely bloody certain that the reader understands which of the above is which</p>
<p>If the Melbourne Age, NYT etc are too damned stupid or blinded by ideology to do the above, good riddance to them. I for one will dance a jig on their graves.</p>
<p>MarkL<br />
Not in Canberra at all.</p>
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		<title>By: RWE</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/11/16/newspapers-in-crisis/comment-page-1/#comment-22462</link>
		<dc:creator>RWE</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Nov 2008 03:25:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=1036#comment-22462</guid>
		<description>In my job I have to collect data on certain technical subjects and have on occasion had to phone or e-mail some small town newspapers and request information on stories they have done.  These are real small town  newspapers, in places you never heard of.  And I have found that they are a good source of information, generally much better at detail and accuracy than the national media or even the specialized press, such as Aviation Week.  One reason they are good sources is that they just print the facts and provide statements by people who were there.  Those local yokels are too dumb and unsophisticated to improperly analyze the information or put on a big city MSM style spin after clearing it with the NYT.  The poor little guys just print the facts.  And most of them don&#039;t even have websites worthy of the name. 

And then there are the websites and newsletters created by enthusiasts.  Once again, they are better sources of data.

One day, maybe, someone will figure out how to tie all these small, diverse, but superior sources of data together in some fashion.  And the Port Lavel Times and Camden News and their ilk will replace the NYT and its kind in fact; they have already far surpassed the MSM in journalistic integrity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In my job I have to collect data on certain technical subjects and have on occasion had to phone or e-mail some small town newspapers and request information on stories they have done.  These are real small town  newspapers, in places you never heard of.  And I have found that they are a good source of information, generally much better at detail and accuracy than the national media or even the specialized press, such as Aviation Week.  One reason they are good sources is that they just print the facts and provide statements by people who were there.  Those local yokels are too dumb and unsophisticated to improperly analyze the information or put on a big city MSM style spin after clearing it with the NYT.  The poor little guys just print the facts.  And most of them don&#8217;t even have websites worthy of the name. </p>
<p>And then there are the websites and newsletters created by enthusiasts.  Once again, they are better sources of data.</p>
<p>One day, maybe, someone will figure out how to tie all these small, diverse, but superior sources of data together in some fashion.  And the Port Lavel Times and Camden News and their ilk will replace the NYT and its kind in fact; they have already far surpassed the MSM in journalistic integrity.</p>
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		<title>By: Leo Linbeck III</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/11/16/newspapers-in-crisis/comment-page-1/#comment-22454</link>
		<dc:creator>Leo Linbeck III</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Nov 2008 02:48:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=1036#comment-22454</guid>
		<description>James,

It&#039;s a question of supply and demand. My read of this is there is simply too much supply: too many &quot;reporters&quot; who really have nothing useful to report on.

There are lots of other models, most of which are pay-to-play. People who write about the economy get paid a lot by business leaders and investors. Bloomberg, in particular, makes a fortune off of providing information to these people. A similar thing seems to happen in foreign affairs, defense industry, etc. And of course there are thousands of industry rags - from Variety to Women&#039;s Wear Daily to InfoWorld - that give very focused and high quality content and analysis. They make plenty of money, judging by their growth.

Fact is, very, very few things that are really important happen real-time. Even when they do, the value of having a reporter parachute in, &quot;record&quot; what&#039;s happening, and then return to his rent-controlled flat in Greenwich Village, is low. You get lots of noise, which obscures the signal. One of the problems with the daily newspaper model is that it must create news when there is none; same for cable news networks. Readership goes up when there&#039;s some event, then goes back down again. The incentive is therefore to manufacture more &quot;crises.&quot; Frankly, most folks are just tired of all this sensationalism mixed with obscurantism and topped with ignorance.

Besides, when there is a real crisis, the internet is more useful anyway. At least you get lots of raw data, vs. a collection of selected transcriptions that is fit into a pre-determined narrative. You can decide for yourself, rather than have Bill Keller decide for you. If it&#039;s really important, you&#039;ll take the time to figure it out. If not, you&#039;ll go back to your regularly scheduled life.

I&#039;m afraid this means that we will have fewer professional journalists working in the future. However, once the guild is broken, the Michael Yon&#039;s of the world might actually be able to make more money. This may not be good for the Sulzbergers, but I&#039;m pretty sure that will be a good thing for our polity.

Now if we can just figure out how to do the same thing to the legal profession...

L3</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>James,</p>
<p>It&#8217;s a question of supply and demand. My read of this is there is simply too much supply: too many &#8220;reporters&#8221; who really have nothing useful to report on.</p>
<p>There are lots of other models, most of which are pay-to-play. People who write about the economy get paid a lot by business leaders and investors. Bloomberg, in particular, makes a fortune off of providing information to these people. A similar thing seems to happen in foreign affairs, defense industry, etc. And of course there are thousands of industry rags &#8211; from Variety to Women&#8217;s Wear Daily to InfoWorld &#8211; that give very focused and high quality content and analysis. They make plenty of money, judging by their growth.</p>
<p>Fact is, very, very few things that are really important happen real-time. Even when they do, the value of having a reporter parachute in, &#8220;record&#8221; what&#8217;s happening, and then return to his rent-controlled flat in Greenwich Village, is low. You get lots of noise, which obscures the signal. One of the problems with the daily newspaper model is that it must create news when there is none; same for cable news networks. Readership goes up when there&#8217;s some event, then goes back down again. The incentive is therefore to manufacture more &#8220;crises.&#8221; Frankly, most folks are just tired of all this sensationalism mixed with obscurantism and topped with ignorance.</p>
<p>Besides, when there is a real crisis, the internet is more useful anyway. At least you get lots of raw data, vs. a collection of selected transcriptions that is fit into a pre-determined narrative. You can decide for yourself, rather than have Bill Keller decide for you. If it&#8217;s really important, you&#8217;ll take the time to figure it out. If not, you&#8217;ll go back to your regularly scheduled life.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m afraid this means that we will have fewer professional journalists working in the future. However, once the guild is broken, the Michael Yon&#8217;s of the world might actually be able to make more money. This may not be good for the Sulzbergers, but I&#8217;m pretty sure that will be a good thing for our polity.</p>
<p>Now if we can just figure out how to do the same thing to the legal profession&#8230;</p>
<p>L3</p>
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		<title>By: NahnCee</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/11/16/newspapers-in-crisis/comment-page-1/#comment-22448</link>
		<dc:creator>NahnCee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Nov 2008 02:04:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=1036#comment-22448</guid>
		<description>Why do most Americans *need* to know that Georgia is a country?  Do they buy anything from Georgia? Do they send anything to Georgia?  Have we ever gone to war with Georgia?  How does the fact that there is some acreage that&#039;s named itself Georgia across a very large ocean and continent away from most Americans affect them?

Really - we *hire* people to know stuff like that so we don&#039;t have to bother ourselves with tons of itty-bitty unimportant details and minutae!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why do most Americans *need* to know that Georgia is a country?  Do they buy anything from Georgia? Do they send anything to Georgia?  Have we ever gone to war with Georgia?  How does the fact that there is some acreage that&#8217;s named itself Georgia across a very large ocean and continent away from most Americans affect them?</p>
<p>Really &#8211; we *hire* people to know stuff like that so we don&#8217;t have to bother ourselves with tons of itty-bitty unimportant details and minutae!</p>
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		<title>By: Mark B</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/11/16/newspapers-in-crisis/comment-page-1/#comment-22443</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Nov 2008 01:41:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=1036#comment-22443</guid>
		<description>James:
Information isn’t free.
Some news is hard to collect, or excruciatingly dull to collect. You have to _pay_ reporters to find it and somebody to check it. We need that info, so somehow we have to pay the reporters. (Citizen news blogging is nice, sometimes very accurate and in-depth, but you can’t rely on it being there. And I don’t especially trust press releases, which often seem to hope that we have no memory.)
--------------------------------------------------------------------

This is why they stopped collecting it and starting paying &quot;foreign contributors&quot; for news stories. This is why propaganda rules in foreign war zones from Iraq to Afghanistan to Lebanon.

This is also why I read this blog, intelligent discussion of world events. 

Most Americans don&#039;t even know that Georgia is a country. Why is that?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>James:<br />
Information isn’t free.<br />
Some news is hard to collect, or excruciatingly dull to collect. You have to _pay_ reporters to find it and somebody to check it. We need that info, so somehow we have to pay the reporters. (Citizen news blogging is nice, sometimes very accurate and in-depth, but you can’t rely on it being there. And I don’t especially trust press releases, which often seem to hope that we have no memory.)<br />
&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8211;</p>
<p>This is why they stopped collecting it and starting paying &#8220;foreign contributors&#8221; for news stories. This is why propaganda rules in foreign war zones from Iraq to Afghanistan to Lebanon.</p>
<p>This is also why I read this blog, intelligent discussion of world events. </p>
<p>Most Americans don&#8217;t even know that Georgia is a country. Why is that?</p>
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		<title>By: James</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/11/16/newspapers-in-crisis/comment-page-1/#comment-22440</link>
		<dc:creator>James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Nov 2008 01:26:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=1036#comment-22440</guid>
		<description>Information isn&#039;t free.
Some news is hard to collect, or excruciatingly dull to collect.  You have to _pay_ reporters to find it and somebody to check it.  We need that info, so somehow we have to pay the reporters.  (Citizen news blogging is nice, sometimes very accurate and in-depth, but you can&#039;t rely on it being there.  And I don&#039;t especially trust press releases, which often seem to hope that we have no memory.)
Apparently print ads aren&#039;t efficient and the dead tree model is dying.  OK.  Are web ads proving equal to the task of paying the reporters?  Web ads plus subscriptions?  Who has made it pay?  If it isn&#039;t completely paying the bills we have a little problem.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Information isn&#8217;t free.<br />
Some news is hard to collect, or excruciatingly dull to collect.  You have to _pay_ reporters to find it and somebody to check it.  We need that info, so somehow we have to pay the reporters.  (Citizen news blogging is nice, sometimes very accurate and in-depth, but you can&#8217;t rely on it being there.  And I don&#8217;t especially trust press releases, which often seem to hope that we have no memory.)<br />
Apparently print ads aren&#8217;t efficient and the dead tree model is dying.  OK.  Are web ads proving equal to the task of paying the reporters?  Web ads plus subscriptions?  Who has made it pay?  If it isn&#8217;t completely paying the bills we have a little problem.</p>
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