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	<title>Comments on: Ship of fools</title>
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	<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/11/17/ship-of-fools/</link>
	<description>Just another Pajamasmedia.com weblog</description>
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		<title>By: buddy larsen</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/11/17/ship-of-fools/comment-page-2/#comment-23008</link>
		<dc:creator>buddy larsen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 07:35:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=1049#comment-23008</guid>
		<description>Speaking of Benj --what happened to him? Did he ever post anything --a farewll perhaps --after the election? I missed the week after Nov 4 --they had taken away my belt and shoelaces and computer away from me damn them regulations. So anyway, what, did he just disappear after those many moons of beaucoup Obamanisms?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Speaking of Benj &#8211;what happened to him? Did he ever post anything &#8211;a farewll perhaps &#8211;after the election? I missed the week after Nov 4 &#8211;they had taken away my belt and shoelaces and computer away from me damn them regulations. So anyway, what, did he just disappear after those many moons of beaucoup Obamanisms?</p>
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		<title>By: Whitehall</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/11/17/ship-of-fools/comment-page-2/#comment-22845</link>
		<dc:creator>Whitehall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2008 23:38:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=1049#comment-22845</guid>
		<description>&quot; Investment capital represents our limited stock of national savings, and when companies spend it badly, our future well-being is compromised.&quot;

That&#039;s what burns me about our nation&#039;s energy policy.  Even my beloved Sarah Palin was on-board with an &quot;all-of-the-above&quot; electrical generation mix.  Unfortunately, that means investing BILLIONS of dollars in unreliable generation (wind and solar) that cost a lot more per unit output than coal and nuclear.

We are indeed wasting our investments in energy which in turn overburdens every other economic activity with electricity that cost more than it needs to.

We should give our automobile managements credit for giving what the customers want.  The last few years buyers wanted big SUVs and Detroit was there to supply that needs.  Tastes and buying habits change, sometimes suddenly, but lean years do follow fat years.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8221; Investment capital represents our limited stock of national savings, and when companies spend it badly, our future well-being is compromised.&#8221;</p>
<p>That&#8217;s what burns me about our nation&#8217;s energy policy.  Even my beloved Sarah Palin was on-board with an &#8220;all-of-the-above&#8221; electrical generation mix.  Unfortunately, that means investing BILLIONS of dollars in unreliable generation (wind and solar) that cost a lot more per unit output than coal and nuclear.</p>
<p>We are indeed wasting our investments in energy which in turn overburdens every other economic activity with electricity that cost more than it needs to.</p>
<p>We should give our automobile managements credit for giving what the customers want.  The last few years buyers wanted big SUVs and Detroit was there to supply that needs.  Tastes and buying habits change, sometimes suddenly, but lean years do follow fat years.</p>
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		<title>By: slade</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/11/17/ship-of-fools/comment-page-2/#comment-22808</link>
		<dc:creator>slade</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2008 18:53:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=1049#comment-22808</guid>
		<description>I haerd an analyst on CNBC this morning who made the point that, while Detroit management deserved the condemnation currently being heaped on it for the last quarter of the last century, management over the last 3-5 years has been good.  A case of too little too late for most people but an opinion worth noting.

&lt;i&gt;exercises only politically correct practices and work rules&lt;/i&gt; - Unsk

This has a baby-bathwater quality to it.  Same for some of the environmental regulations governing disposal of toxic waste.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I haerd an analyst on CNBC this morning who made the point that, while Detroit management deserved the condemnation currently being heaped on it for the last quarter of the last century, management over the last 3-5 years has been good.  A case of too little too late for most people but an opinion worth noting.</p>
<p><i>exercises only politically correct practices and work rules</i> &#8211; Unsk</p>
<p>This has a baby-bathwater quality to it.  Same for some of the environmental regulations governing disposal of toxic waste.</p>
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		<title>By: Yashmak</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/11/17/ship-of-fools/comment-page-2/#comment-22807</link>
		<dc:creator>Yashmak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2008 18:26:44 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I recall reading, somewhere, that it currently costs $1400 per automobile more for US automakers to build a car, than for Japanese auotmakers to build an equivalent car.  If that&#039;s the case, there&#039;s no amount of money you can pour into the Big 3 that will, in the long run, save them.

With the continuing escalation of health-care costs, and the likely advent of harsher environmental requirements for manufacturers, it&#039;s going to get even MORE expensive for the Big 3 to make cars.  

I don&#039;t believe they can be saved.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I recall reading, somewhere, that it currently costs $1400 per automobile more for US automakers to build a car, than for Japanese auotmakers to build an equivalent car.  If that&#8217;s the case, there&#8217;s no amount of money you can pour into the Big 3 that will, in the long run, save them.</p>
<p>With the continuing escalation of health-care costs, and the likely advent of harsher environmental requirements for manufacturers, it&#8217;s going to get even MORE expensive for the Big 3 to make cars.  </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t believe they can be saved.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/11/17/ship-of-fools/comment-page-2/#comment-22798</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2008 17:23:16 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Unsk: You got it.   Nominal monetary costs are
but a secondary reason when jobs go away.  Harassment is much more prevalent.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Unsk: You got it.   Nominal monetary costs are<br />
but a secondary reason when jobs go away.  Harassment is much more prevalent.</p>
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		<title>By: Unsk</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/11/17/ship-of-fools/comment-page-2/#comment-22773</link>
		<dc:creator>Unsk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2008 15:08:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=1049#comment-22773</guid>
		<description>I second JMH:

 &quot;The reason manufacturing jobs are moving overseas are:

-unpredictable environmental regulations
-unpredictable legal liability system
-steadily increasing structural costs&quot;

In too many parts of this country, manufacturing has effectively been criminalized. State and Local governments often expect a manufacturer to have an environmentally clean manufacturing workplace that produces no pollutants, dust, and noise,  use only recycled materials, places no burden on the transportation network or the electrical grid, exercises only  politically correct practices and work rules, employ  only union members, gives out huge employee benefits and pay, and  produces perfect products that no one ever misuses, never causes any harm to any living organism, and  that work perfectly every time forever. Oh, and btw gives big payoffs annually to the local politicians to boot. 

And so some of you complain that these manufacturing types are being 
un-American  by flocking to other countries to locate their businesses. 
These manufacturers often feel they have no choice. 

Politicians, including most Republicans, have been almost totally out to lunch on policies that affect business. They are all afraid of offending the fashionable left media and interest groups, and have not effectively put forth a narrative supporting laws that  to help to develop our manufacturing base.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I second JMH:</p>
<p> &#8220;The reason manufacturing jobs are moving overseas are:</p>
<p>-unpredictable environmental regulations<br />
-unpredictable legal liability system<br />
-steadily increasing structural costs&#8221;</p>
<p>In too many parts of this country, manufacturing has effectively been criminalized. State and Local governments often expect a manufacturer to have an environmentally clean manufacturing workplace that produces no pollutants, dust, and noise,  use only recycled materials, places no burden on the transportation network or the electrical grid, exercises only  politically correct practices and work rules, employ  only union members, gives out huge employee benefits and pay, and  produces perfect products that no one ever misuses, never causes any harm to any living organism, and  that work perfectly every time forever. Oh, and btw gives big payoffs annually to the local politicians to boot. </p>
<p>And so some of you complain that these manufacturing types are being<br />
un-American  by flocking to other countries to locate their businesses.<br />
These manufacturers often feel they have no choice. </p>
<p>Politicians, including most Republicans, have been almost totally out to lunch on policies that affect business. They are all afraid of offending the fashionable left media and interest groups, and have not effectively put forth a narrative supporting laws that  to help to develop our manufacturing base.</p>
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		<title>By: peterike</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/11/17/ship-of-fools/comment-page-2/#comment-22767</link>
		<dc:creator>peterike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2008 14:37:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=1049#comment-22767</guid>
		<description>Ben not Benj? Yikes. My mind playing tricks on me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ben not Benj? Yikes. My mind playing tricks on me.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/11/17/ship-of-fools/comment-page-2/#comment-22737</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2008 05:32:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=1049#comment-22737</guid>
		<description>Peterike;  That was Ben who made the astute observation about a restaurant. 

Or is Ben really Benj in rational guise?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Peterike;  That was Ben who made the astute observation about a restaurant. </p>
<p>Or is Ben really Benj in rational guise?</p>
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		<title>By: peterike</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/11/17/ship-of-fools/comment-page-2/#comment-22731</link>
		<dc:creator>peterike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2008 01:09:42 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Benj, your notion of a resturant being manufacturing rather than service is brilliant. I agree completely.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Benj, your notion of a resturant being manufacturing rather than service is brilliant. I agree completely.</p>
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		<title>By: peterike</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/11/17/ship-of-fools/comment-page-2/#comment-22730</link>
		<dc:creator>peterike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2008 01:07:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=1049#comment-22730</guid>
		<description>John Sabotta: &lt;i&gt; I like the casual way in which Mr. Petericke spends 15 dollars of my money...  Here’s something to note carefully. If someone asks me to voluntarily buy American, I’d consider it... But if someone passes a law in order to force me to buy American T-shirts, then I will buy Chinese T-shirts even if I have to buy them from a street dealer... &lt;/i&gt;

I&#039;m not sure where you got the impression that I wanted to force you to buy American made t-shirts. My point was that there was never any reason to move the t-shirt manufacturing to China in the first place. There was no massive t-shirt shortage in the United States. No one was clamoring for cheaper t-shirts. Nobody felt some cosmic sense of loss because their closet didn&#039;t have fifty t-shirts in it. 

The manufacturing moved because the owners could make more money. Once somebody started it, the horse was out of the barn and it was off to the races. Had we simply never allowed foreign made t-shirts into the country, who would ever have cared? Who would ever have known the difference? 

We also got one of those unforseen side effects. The cheapening of everyday products didn&#039;t result in Americans saving money and investing the difference. It resulted in them wanting more and more stuff. Now Junior has five pairs of sneakers instead of one, and fifty t-shirts, and twenty pairs of jeans, and he gets 20 gifts every Christmas instead of three or four. I think it&#039;s coarsened us as a people and implanted a kind of insatiable desire for &lt;i&gt;things &lt;/i&gt; into much of the populace. Who hasn&#039;t seen a spoiled brat little yuppie snotnosed kid wailing in a store when they aren&#039;t handed what they want? I don&#039;t remember a whole lot of that when I was a kid, because you didn&#039;t expect your every material desire to be satisifed, and in fifteen different colors.

I realize this is all just fantasy, because the deed is done. But imagine if the business interests in the US had never embarked on their outsourcing mania simply out of loyalty to the country, and goods manufacturing was by and large left where it was, with imports limited primarily to high-end products (e.g. Mercedes) and regional products (e.g. French wine). I&#039;m sorry but I just don&#039;t buy into the notion that just because something &lt;i&gt; can&lt;/i&gt; be done cheaper somewhere, that it therefore &lt;i&gt;must&lt;/i&gt; be done there. 

Maybe some people think it would be a bleaker country if our lives weren&#039;t buried under a non-stop avalance of cheap new twinkling manufactured goods. I think it would be a better, saner, cleaner, less envy ridden and happier country.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John Sabotta: <i> I like the casual way in which Mr. Petericke spends 15 dollars of my money&#8230;  Here’s something to note carefully. If someone asks me to voluntarily buy American, I’d consider it&#8230; But if someone passes a law in order to force me to buy American T-shirts, then I will buy Chinese T-shirts even if I have to buy them from a street dealer&#8230; </i></p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure where you got the impression that I wanted to force you to buy American made t-shirts. My point was that there was never any reason to move the t-shirt manufacturing to China in the first place. There was no massive t-shirt shortage in the United States. No one was clamoring for cheaper t-shirts. Nobody felt some cosmic sense of loss because their closet didn&#8217;t have fifty t-shirts in it. </p>
<p>The manufacturing moved because the owners could make more money. Once somebody started it, the horse was out of the barn and it was off to the races. Had we simply never allowed foreign made t-shirts into the country, who would ever have cared? Who would ever have known the difference? </p>
<p>We also got one of those unforseen side effects. The cheapening of everyday products didn&#8217;t result in Americans saving money and investing the difference. It resulted in them wanting more and more stuff. Now Junior has five pairs of sneakers instead of one, and fifty t-shirts, and twenty pairs of jeans, and he gets 20 gifts every Christmas instead of three or four. I think it&#8217;s coarsened us as a people and implanted a kind of insatiable desire for <i>things </i> into much of the populace. Who hasn&#8217;t seen a spoiled brat little yuppie snotnosed kid wailing in a store when they aren&#8217;t handed what they want? I don&#8217;t remember a whole lot of that when I was a kid, because you didn&#8217;t expect your every material desire to be satisifed, and in fifteen different colors.</p>
<p>I realize this is all just fantasy, because the deed is done. But imagine if the business interests in the US had never embarked on their outsourcing mania simply out of loyalty to the country, and goods manufacturing was by and large left where it was, with imports limited primarily to high-end products (e.g. Mercedes) and regional products (e.g. French wine). I&#8217;m sorry but I just don&#8217;t buy into the notion that just because something <i> can</i> be done cheaper somewhere, that it therefore <i>must</i> be done there. </p>
<p>Maybe some people think it would be a bleaker country if our lives weren&#8217;t buried under a non-stop avalance of cheap new twinkling manufactured goods. I think it would be a better, saner, cleaner, less envy ridden and happier country.</p>
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