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	<title>Comments on: Stories</title>
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	<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/11/19/stories/</link>
	<description>Just another Pajamasmedia.com weblog</description>
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		<title>By: james wilson</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/11/19/stories/comment-page-1/#comment-22997</link>
		<dc:creator>james wilson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 04:25:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=1066#comment-22997</guid>
		<description>Nation-states have negotiable interests. Revolutions do not. 
Iran is the dying remains of a revolution, and so especially dangerous. Syria is nation-state. It may have finally occured to Syria  that if and when Iran launches upon Israel, Israel is not going to be holding an investigation on the extent of Syria&#039;s involvement.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nation-states have negotiable interests. Revolutions do not.<br />
Iran is the dying remains of a revolution, and so especially dangerous. Syria is nation-state. It may have finally occured to Syria  that if and when Iran launches upon Israel, Israel is not going to be holding an investigation on the extent of Syria&#8217;s involvement.</p>
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		<title>By: Eggplant</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/11/19/stories/comment-page-1/#comment-22993</link>
		<dc:creator>Eggplant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 02:12:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=1066#comment-22993</guid>
		<description>RWE said:

&quot;Also, we have the reports from that Iraqi Air Force General that their WMD program was shipped to Syria under cover of a flood relief effort.&quot;

That story was too convenient.  I suspect it was a lie.  If the story were true, physical evidence would have appeared by now (maybe it will after Obama assumes office).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RWE said:</p>
<p>&#8220;Also, we have the reports from that Iraqi Air Force General that their WMD program was shipped to Syria under cover of a flood relief effort.&#8221;</p>
<p>That story was too convenient.  I suspect it was a lie.  If the story were true, physical evidence would have appeared by now (maybe it will after Obama assumes office).</p>
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		<title>By: RWE</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/11/19/stories/comment-page-1/#comment-22991</link>
		<dc:creator>RWE</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 02:00:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=1066#comment-22991</guid>
		<description>By the way, folks, if you want an easy way to save documents like that briefing on the Syrian reactor you can go to www.pdf995.com and download a free program that enables you to convert such webpages as well as documents to a PDF file.  Depending on the width of the page, it may not work just right but most of the time it works just fine.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By the way, folks, if you want an easy way to save documents like that briefing on the Syrian reactor you can go to <a href="http://www.pdf995.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.pdf995.com</a> and download a free program that enables you to convert such webpages as well as documents to a PDF file.  Depending on the width of the page, it may not work just right but most of the time it works just fine.</p>
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		<title>By: RWE</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/11/19/stories/comment-page-1/#comment-22990</link>
		<dc:creator>RWE</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 01:52:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=1066#comment-22990</guid>
		<description>Eggplant:  Don&#039;t forget Iran.  They have a close association with Syria, although I don&#039;t think anyone has explained just when that began.  

The Iraqi link is an interesting possibility.  While Syria was part of the Desert Storm Coalition (purely for show, I think) they are also a Battahist state, like Iraq.  During the Yom Kipper War Iraq sent jet fighters to help Syria - but did not receive any useful instructions from Syrian command when they got there, sailed into the battle area without setting the correct IFF codes, and lost the entire force to Syrian SAMs within minutes.  I think that curbed their enthusiasm.  

Also, we have the reports from that Iraqi Air Force General that their WMD program was shipped to Syria under cover of a flood relief effort.

Politics makes strange bedfellows, especially in the Middle East.  Most of the Iraqi Air Force that got in the air during Desert Storm flew to hated Iran. 

And while I know of no link between Iraq and North Korea, we know definitely that North Korea and Iran have had a close association, with the Koreans selling Scuds to Iran and Iran providing space booster upper stage technology to the Koreans.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eggplant:  Don&#8217;t forget Iran.  They have a close association with Syria, although I don&#8217;t think anyone has explained just when that began.  </p>
<p>The Iraqi link is an interesting possibility.  While Syria was part of the Desert Storm Coalition (purely for show, I think) they are also a Battahist state, like Iraq.  During the Yom Kipper War Iraq sent jet fighters to help Syria &#8211; but did not receive any useful instructions from Syrian command when they got there, sailed into the battle area without setting the correct IFF codes, and lost the entire force to Syrian SAMs within minutes.  I think that curbed their enthusiasm.  </p>
<p>Also, we have the reports from that Iraqi Air Force General that their WMD program was shipped to Syria under cover of a flood relief effort.</p>
<p>Politics makes strange bedfellows, especially in the Middle East.  Most of the Iraqi Air Force that got in the air during Desert Storm flew to hated Iran. </p>
<p>And while I know of no link between Iraq and North Korea, we know definitely that North Korea and Iran have had a close association, with the Koreans selling Scuds to Iran and Iran providing space booster upper stage technology to the Koreans.</p>
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		<title>By: Eggplant</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/11/19/stories/comment-page-1/#comment-22989</link>
		<dc:creator>Eggplant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 01:36:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=1066#comment-22989</guid>
		<description>RWE also said:

&quot;Note though, that this briefing says the reactor was destroyed before it was loaded with uranium fuel, on Monday but the chief of the IAEA confirmed that they had found traces of Uranium at the site&quot;

The Israelis obviously had a guy on-site providing them with intelligence.  The best time to destroy a nuclear reactor would be when the unactivated fuel rods were on site but not yet loaded into the reactor.  The unloaded fuel rods would not have been activated thus containing almost no fission products.  Waiting to destroy the reactor until after its fuel rods were loaded would have been ill advised.  Doing so could easily have resulted in a Chernobyl situation with a horrific fall-out plume spreading out over hundreds of kilometers (particularly if the reactor used a graphite moderator as seems to have been the case).  However destroying the reactor with the fuel nearby but unloaded effectively killed two birds with one stone.  

This action by Israel was brilliantly done and represents another feather in their cap  (right next to the one they earned for destroying Saddam&#039;s Osirak Reactor).  Too bad they can&#039;t seem to do anything about the Iranians.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RWE also said:</p>
<p>&#8220;Note though, that this briefing says the reactor was destroyed before it was loaded with uranium fuel, on Monday but the chief of the IAEA confirmed that they had found traces of Uranium at the site&#8221;</p>
<p>The Israelis obviously had a guy on-site providing them with intelligence.  The best time to destroy a nuclear reactor would be when the unactivated fuel rods were on site but not yet loaded into the reactor.  The unloaded fuel rods would not have been activated thus containing almost no fission products.  Waiting to destroy the reactor until after its fuel rods were loaded would have been ill advised.  Doing so could easily have resulted in a Chernobyl situation with a horrific fall-out plume spreading out over hundreds of kilometers (particularly if the reactor used a graphite moderator as seems to have been the case).  However destroying the reactor with the fuel nearby but unloaded effectively killed two birds with one stone.  </p>
<p>This action by Israel was brilliantly done and represents another feather in their cap  (right next to the one they earned for destroying Saddam&#8217;s Osirak Reactor).  Too bad they can&#8217;t seem to do anything about the Iranians.</p>
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		<title>By: Eggplant</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/11/19/stories/comment-page-1/#comment-22987</link>
		<dc:creator>Eggplant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 01:20:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=1066#comment-22987</guid>
		<description>RWE:

You www.globalsecurity.org link was very interesting.  Thank you for providing it.  I quote the following from the globalsecurity interview:

&quot;The Syrians constructed this reactor for the production of plutonium with the assistance of the North Koreans.  Our evidence goes back an extended period of time. We have had insights to what was going on since very late ’90s, early 2000, 2001 that something was happening.&quot;

The timing is very interesting.  The American invasion of Iraq occurred on 20 March 2003.  This Syrian reactor was in mid-construction when the Iraq War started.  This raises the $64,000 question:  Was this merely a Syrian/North-Korean nuclear program or was it a Syrian/Iraqi/North-Korean nuclear program?  If Saddam was involved in this project from the very beginning then what we have here was a secret justification for the Iraq War.  However, I should emphasize that this is not clear cut because the Syrians had no love for Saddam (Syria was part of the Desert Storm coalition against Saddam&#039;s invasion of Kuwait).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RWE:</p>
<p>You <a href="http://www.globalsecurity.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.globalsecurity.org</a> link was very interesting.  Thank you for providing it.  I quote the following from the globalsecurity interview:</p>
<p>&#8220;The Syrians constructed this reactor for the production of plutonium with the assistance of the North Koreans.  Our evidence goes back an extended period of time. We have had insights to what was going on since very late ’90s, early 2000, 2001 that something was happening.&#8221;</p>
<p>The timing is very interesting.  The American invasion of Iraq occurred on 20 March 2003.  This Syrian reactor was in mid-construction when the Iraq War started.  This raises the $64,000 question:  Was this merely a Syrian/North-Korean nuclear program or was it a Syrian/Iraqi/North-Korean nuclear program?  If Saddam was involved in this project from the very beginning then what we have here was a secret justification for the Iraq War.  However, I should emphasize that this is not clear cut because the Syrians had no love for Saddam (Syria was part of the Desert Storm coalition against Saddam&#8217;s invasion of Kuwait).</p>
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		<title>By: RWE</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/11/19/stories/comment-page-1/#comment-22985</link>
		<dc:creator>RWE</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 00:26:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=1066#comment-22985</guid>
		<description>Eggplant:  Yes, that sounds about right to me, but remember that N Korea had a Plutonium bomb program, which it supposedly abandoned and then supposedly began a Uranium enrichment program.  So they could give away their cake and eat it too.

As for an analysis of the North Korean involvement in the Syrian project, this briefing from April 2008 is pretty definitive: http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/syria/2008/syria-080424-dni01.htm

Note though, that this briefing says the reactor was destroyed before it was loaded with uranium fuel, on Monday but the chief of the IAEA confirmed that they had found traces of Uranium at the site, although he could not say what the source of the traces was.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eggplant:  Yes, that sounds about right to me, but remember that N Korea had a Plutonium bomb program, which it supposedly abandoned and then supposedly began a Uranium enrichment program.  So they could give away their cake and eat it too.</p>
<p>As for an analysis of the North Korean involvement in the Syrian project, this briefing from April 2008 is pretty definitive: <a href="http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/syria/2008/syria-080424-dni01.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/syria/2008/syria-080424-dni01.htm</a></p>
<p>Note though, that this briefing says the reactor was destroyed before it was loaded with uranium fuel, on Monday but the chief of the IAEA confirmed that they had found traces of Uranium at the site, although he could not say what the source of the traces was.</p>
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		<title>By: Is This For Real? &#187; The Ethereal Voice</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/11/19/stories/comment-page-1/#comment-22982</link>
		<dc:creator>Is This For Real? &#187; The Ethereal Voice</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 23:21:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=1066#comment-22982</guid>
		<description>[...] The whole piece has more detail about Israel&#8217;s raid on Syra&#8217;s nuclear site then I have seen anywhere else. Somebody is either making things up or talking about things they should keep quite about. (H/T The Belmont Club) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] The whole piece has more detail about Israel&#8217;s raid on Syra&#8217;s nuclear site then I have seen anywhere else. Somebody is either making things up or talking about things they should keep quite about. (H/T The Belmont Club) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Bruce</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/11/19/stories/comment-page-1/#comment-22965</link>
		<dc:creator>Bruce</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 20:09:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=1066#comment-22965</guid>
		<description>I agree with Eggplant&#039;s analysis, with one additional player. Prior to 2003, the North Koreans were working directly with Saddam Hussein in a joint nuclear weapons development program. The NK was providing technology and scientists, and Hussein was providing money and a safe location inside Iraq. Syria may have been involved as a minor partner at that point. Post 9/11, when it became clear that the US was going to invade Iraq, Hussein made a quick deal to hustle the projects&#039; equipment and staff across the border into Syria for safe keeping. Hussein believed that he could fight off the US to a standstill or, at worst, we would tire quickly and he would be back in power in a few years. 
Once Hussein was captured and hung and the Iraqi government had permanently changed, Iran stepped up and offered to take over Iraq&#039;s place in the joint project, primarily in financing it. The work fit in nicely with Iran&#039;s own ongoing nuke program. Meanwhile North Korea continued to work on parts of the project at home. The US knew about all this, but was keeping it quiet because we already had enough on our plate with Iraq, Afganistan, and talks with North Korea. With Iran involved, and steady technical progress, Israel finally got nervous enough that they decided to go ahead and bomb the facility.

Just my speculation and opinion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Eggplant&#8217;s analysis, with one additional player. Prior to 2003, the North Koreans were working directly with Saddam Hussein in a joint nuclear weapons development program. The NK was providing technology and scientists, and Hussein was providing money and a safe location inside Iraq. Syria may have been involved as a minor partner at that point. Post 9/11, when it became clear that the US was going to invade Iraq, Hussein made a quick deal to hustle the projects&#8217; equipment and staff across the border into Syria for safe keeping. Hussein believed that he could fight off the US to a standstill or, at worst, we would tire quickly and he would be back in power in a few years.<br />
Once Hussein was captured and hung and the Iraqi government had permanently changed, Iran stepped up and offered to take over Iraq&#8217;s place in the joint project, primarily in financing it. The work fit in nicely with Iran&#8217;s own ongoing nuke program. Meanwhile North Korea continued to work on parts of the project at home. The US knew about all this, but was keeping it quiet because we already had enough on our plate with Iraq, Afganistan, and talks with North Korea. With Iran involved, and steady technical progress, Israel finally got nervous enough that they decided to go ahead and bomb the facility.</p>
<p>Just my speculation and opinion.</p>
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		<title>By: Eggplant</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/11/19/stories/comment-page-1/#comment-22960</link>
		<dc:creator>Eggplant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 19:29:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=1066#comment-22960</guid>
		<description>Antipodal asked:

&quot;If the Israeli’s did in fact destroy something, what was that something?&quot;

Here&#039;s my worthless opinion:  The North Koreans realized that the jig-was-up with their nuclear weapons research and development program but they wanted to continue in that activity.  Meanwhile, the Syrians wanted to be players in the nuclear weapons game but didn&#039;t have the petro-dollars and technical experience.  So the Syrians and the North Koreans got in bed together.  The Syrians allowed the North Koreans to move their nuclear weapons research and development program to Syrian territory in exchange for the North Koreans providing the Syrians access to their technology (the Syrians could then leverage this new information against what they already had from the Iranians and Saddam).  The North Koreans could then publicly close out all nuclear weapons R&amp;D activity on their own territory and falsely claim that they were good guys and nuclear-free.  In essence this was an attempt at deception by North Korea through Syria&#039;s connivance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Antipodal asked:</p>
<p>&#8220;If the Israeli’s did in fact destroy something, what was that something?&#8221;</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s my worthless opinion:  The North Koreans realized that the jig-was-up with their nuclear weapons research and development program but they wanted to continue in that activity.  Meanwhile, the Syrians wanted to be players in the nuclear weapons game but didn&#8217;t have the petro-dollars and technical experience.  So the Syrians and the North Koreans got in bed together.  The Syrians allowed the North Koreans to move their nuclear weapons research and development program to Syrian territory in exchange for the North Koreans providing the Syrians access to their technology (the Syrians could then leverage this new information against what they already had from the Iranians and Saddam).  The North Koreans could then publicly close out all nuclear weapons R&amp;D activity on their own territory and falsely claim that they were good guys and nuclear-free.  In essence this was an attempt at deception by North Korea through Syria&#8217;s connivance.</p>
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