38 Comments

1. sirius_sir:

Nuts

Nov 27, 2008 - 3:13 pm 2. vanderleun:

Hama Rules will put a stop to this sort of thing. And only Hama Rules.

Nov 27, 2008 - 3:49 pm 3. what is occupation:

To use Hama rules you’d have to KNOW which town or village to hit…

I suggest take a page from Colonel Rodgers and make the Islamic terrorists dig their own graves, make them watch us dip the bullets in pig fat, make them watch us bury their comrades in pig skins with entrails…

then send a couple back to the hive to tell the story..

It’s time to use humiliation and disrespect as a weapon…

Nov 27, 2008 - 4:13 pm 4. Ruby Red:

Wretchard said, “Right now India doesn’t even know, or can’t even acknowledge, who is attacking it. On the day we can name the enemy — and name our friends — then we will no longer be at the end of the beginning, but at the beginning of the end.”

The difference is that India will deal with this terrorist threat by good old fashioned human intelligence, police work, and by working with the various international law enforcement agencies. They will perceive this attack to be a massive crime, not a “Pearl Harbor” that requires the semi-permanent projection of an occupying military force into Pakistan or Iran or any other “axis of evil” defined by a President who got the member list straight from Jesus. We have seven years of post-911 US missteps to provide an eternal example of what not to do.

Nov 27, 2008 - 4:35 pm 5. Marine 83:

“The difference is that India will deal with this terrorist threat by good old fashioned human intelligence, police work, and by working with the various international law enforcement agencies”.

Chances are the captured terrorists have already had their testicles tapped on with a club. They have told everything they know and were begging for a stop to the pain. From that information the “good old fashioned police work will commence.

Nov 27, 2008 - 5:47 pm 6. F:

Ruby Red: Fully suspecting that your crystal ball is no better than mine, I’ll suggest that your anti-Bush rant is not only wrong, but doubly wrong: India will not engage “various international law enforcement agencies” to deal with this threat: first, they’ll storm the hotels, take a bunch of prisoners and then extract actionable intelligence through less-than-gentle means. And the second part of your rant that’s wrong is that Bush has never suggested a “semi-permanent projection of an occupying military force”. In fact, the SOF agreement approved in Baghdad today foresees an end in several years. Other than that, your analysis is not bad. Wrong, yes, and filled with venom, but not bad. F

Nov 27, 2008 - 6:03 pm 7. NahnCee:

But look — Ruby knows how to produce italics. Surely that counts for SOMEthing.

Nov 27, 2008 - 6:15 pm 8. heather:

I’ve watched a lot of this action on TV and Mumbai was a warzone last night – with bullets and grenades and terror, random and directed terror. The only difference between this and a official invasion is that the ‘gunmen’ are not in uniform. Mumbai is a major world city. Amazing. To see this as a ‘criminal’ act. I would not be surprised if India decided this was an act of war.

Last night, the Police attempted to handle the situation. Finally, after much WARfare in 10 different places, and bullets flying at random throughout public places, they called out the Commandos. Yep. Definitely time for Sherlock Holmes and the Bobbies.

Nov 27, 2008 - 6:18 pm 9. NahnCee:

I wonder if the Arabs realize that every time they do one of these aimed-at-Jewish attacks, at least to an American audience it speaks to our rooting for the underdog and strengthens our resolve to stand behind Israel.

Do you suppose terrorists like the current teenaged gunmen staged their little drama for an Arab audience (look at all the Jews we killed!) or for a Western audience (stop your support of Israel or this will happen to you, too).

And I’m still wondering how a pack of green kids could wander through the largest city in India carrying machine guns and no one noticed in time to stop them.

Nov 27, 2008 - 6:18 pm 10. AZM:

1. Here’s a dying American boy and what he helped do:

http://spotlight.news.yahoo.com/v/10836826

2. Search AlJazeera’s extensive archives for any number of “Abdul the suicide bomber” clips — you know, Abdul, who wants to use his death for some “bigger purpose”.

3. Make a video that contrasts these two.

4. Show it to the multi-culti crowd; put it on youtube.

We may not deliver propaganda as smartly as our enemies in Berkeley and Gaza do; but it’s not because we are wanting in shining examples of heart-wrenching goodness, honor, and things to be admired.

Nov 27, 2008 - 6:18 pm 11. Demosophist:

If one were to analyze terrorist attacks, assigning a score to each attack based on the number killed and injured, the precision of targeting (and exclusion of potential sympathizers from injury), and the coordination and simultaneity of attacks to amplify their impact, there have been no Kashmiri or Pakistani separatist attacks that would even come close to the score of this attack in Mumbai. In fact, there have been only a handful since and including 9-11 that come even close, and none were by Kashmiri or Pakistani separatists. The differential is so huge that this one attack has more impact than the sum total of all other attacks doing an entire year in Kashmir, which has been the most terrorist-active region on the globe. There is only one organization that knows the value of simultaneity and coordination and has been able to act on that knowledge with such potency so far, and that’s Al Qaeda. If the will and means have now spread to other groups, that’s a very troubling development… but the odds still favor the theory that this was organized and funded by Al Qaeda, even if the personnel who carried it out originally came from other groups.

Also, the fact that the Indian subcontinent is the target has a silver lining. It suggests that they’re attempting to both draw attention away from the fact that they no longer have much control over events in other regions of the globe, and to optimize the impact of the one region where they do maintain some effective control.

Nov 27, 2008 - 6:34 pm 12. AZM:

>> how a pack of green kids could wander through the largest city in India carrying machine guns and no one noticed in time to stop them.

It’s not that hard.

I can’t say how much materiel they were carrying (a duffel bag or suitcase (or two) with firearms, clips, grenades) but you can hail a taxi anywhere within a minute or two. And if you pay enough they’ll usually take you anywhere you want.

This was all in South Bombay and all in highly travel-oriented places — in other words, heavy luggage and lumpy duffel bags are not unusual. You take the suitcase into the hotel lobby or the train station, unzip it, away you go.

Some “kolis” (the fisherfolk) who live in the area where these guys got off their speedboats did notice that these guys “didn’t belong” and did call the cops. But, it was all over by then.

I’m probably not explaining it very well. But the business of carrying a few weapons and supplies around in a large — even unwieldy – suitcase is fairly trivial. The weapons wouldn’t need to be brandished until it was too late to do anything about it.

Nov 27, 2008 - 6:35 pm 13. rab:

AZM-

Weapons and extra ammo might have been pre-positioned.

Nov 27, 2008 - 6:44 pm 14. AZM:

> Weapons and extra ammo might have been pre-positioned.
Yes, that too is possible.

My point is that you can move stuff around in a place like Mumbai and — so long as it’s not an open brandished weapon — nobody gives a s%%t. It would seem very normal. Four guys walking around with heavy suitcases/backpacks/duffel bags. Who cares. Until they pull put a grenade and toss it or yank out the AK-47 and start firing, of course…

Nov 27, 2008 - 7:01 pm 15. RAH:

The attack on the Jewish compound is to embarrass the Indian government in showcasing their inability to protect the Jewish enclave. The compound was a soft target since it is highly unlikely the Jews stored and armament.

The longer the commandos can hold the hostages the longer the Indians look weak. Plus if these are Israeli citizens then Israel will need to be consulted since it is their citizens at risk. I suspect the Indians will stage an attack rather than waiting and hang the risk to the hostages lives.

Nov 27, 2008 - 7:32 pm 16. Alexis:

I remember hearing a warning about suicide when I was growing up. You might not succeed. Instead, you may live in severe pain for the rest of a very long life.

Terrorists seem to think they are invincible. Sure, they may die, but they aren’t seen at the limits of their endurance. They aren’t seen to reap the hideous consequences of their own folly.

Nov 27, 2008 - 8:04 pm 17. exhelodrvr:

Ruby,
“We have seven years of post-911 US missteps to provide an eternal example of what not to do.”

LOL! Actually, we have seven years of post-911 non-attacks in the U.S. to provide an eternal example of the benefits of an aggressive policy against the terrorists.

Nov 27, 2008 - 8:32 pm 18. fred:

It is truly bizarre to characterize a massive terrorist attack as NOT AN ACT OF WAR. All jihad actions are understood by the Ummah as a means of waging war.

Stuck on stupid still…

Nov 27, 2008 - 8:44 pm 19. Mongoose:

exheldrvr: I suggest you click on Ruby’s name and go over to her site. This will clarify her “point of view” (and here I am being charitable.)

Nov 27, 2008 - 8:49 pm 20. Starling:

Mongoose (19) said: “exheldrvr: I suggest you click on Ruby’s name and go over to her site. This will clarify her “point of view” (and here I am being charitable.)”

Teresita?

Nov 27, 2008 - 9:38 pm 21. heather:

the ever interesting indian TV/CNN just carried remarks by a fella called “Narendra Modi”, a chief minister of Gujarat. He agrees with me!
This was an attack on India’s sovereignty. And it is PAKISTAN’S FAULT. The ‘teen gunmen’ attacked from the sea.

Now, I have no idea where Gujarat stands in the totem pole of India, but Narendra Modi exuded political power.

Nov 27, 2008 - 9:45 pm 22. heather:

Nahncee, apparently some at least of the teenyboppers had rented a room near/in the same building as/ where Jewish group lived. It doesn’t seem (to this point) that they were primarily focused on Jews. At least some of the Jewish hostages managed to escape. Since the commando attack at this place is ongoing, one must wait for the results, tho.

Apparently, the fishing boat used off Mumbai had a headless body. So our teenyboppers were not nice people. But perhaps with a little counselling, they could become good citizens…

There are constant remarks about the incredible amount of ammunition the teenyboppers have at their disposal, including RDX and grenades. They are not running out of them, at least to date.

Apparently, advance teams settled themselves in rooms in the 2 major hotels, where they had huge stashes of armaments.

And they were well enough organized that they hit at least 10 different places simultaneously.

Nov 27, 2008 - 9:52 pm 23. Mongoose:

Starling: Huh?

Nov 27, 2008 - 9:55 pm 24. Alexis:

Although it is worthwhile to have news stories about American war amputees, I do wonder why we don’t have more stories about al-Qaeda members with amputated limbs.

For the past two centuries, the West has been hearing Johhny I Hardly Knew Ye, but the Islamic world has not heard any similar anti-war message at all. We generally don’t hear about Mohammed’s limbs getting blown off, and we don’t hear about Mohammed becoming a heroin addict while living in constant pain from his so-called “jihad”. AND WHY NOT? Think about it. Why not?

It’s a conspiracy of silence, a conspiracy of silence that regards the just desserts of terrorists who injure themselves as unworthy of comment, while the injuries of western soldiers who dare to fight back against Islamist provocation get full coverage. Defeatism gets aimed at the West, not against al-Qaeda.

Nov 27, 2008 - 10:27 pm 25. NahnCee:

Mongoose is a newbie and unfamiliar with the entity known as Teresita. Keywords “lesbian” “lunatic” “name-changer” “loquacious”.

You could research her in the BC archives, but why bother.

Nov 27, 2008 - 11:25 pm 26. NahnCee:

Alexis, you might want to drop into ArabNews and browse through there. They’ve featured a couple of returned burnt-up ex-jihidists with the usual story about being brainwashed then but now they’ve seen the light and are so sorry for being so stupid as to become exploded.

With the help of the Saudi government they have become unbrainwashed (or brainwashed in a different way), employed, *and* married off … but still burnt up.

The impression is that they are being held up by the Saudi government as exemplars of what can happen to other stupid little boys who want to go try to kill their own American soldier.

Nov 27, 2008 - 11:30 pm 27. Gary Rosen:

“It doesn’t seem (to this point) that they were primarily focused on Jews.”

Heather, these savages are *always* focused on Jews though of course they are going after Americans and Brits as well this time. I remember when Danny Pearl was kidnapped and all the smart guys in the MSM said “they’re using him as a bargaining chip, they’re just trying to call attention to their ’cause’”. And I said to myself “they’re going to kill him because he’s Jewish”. That’s exactly what they did, sawing his head off in front of a video camera for posterity though you would never know from the MSM that his Judaism had a damn thing to do with it.

Nov 28, 2008 - 12:28 am 28. Ruby Red:

Fred said, “It is truly bizarre to characterize a massive terrorist attack as NOT AN ACT OF WAR. All jihad actions are understood by the Ummah as a means of waging war.”

It is equally bizarre to respond to an even more massive attack (911) without going to war. Congress has the power to declare war. They declined to do so. They gave the President some vague resolution something similar to declaring National Chalk Appreciation Month. And the only way American’s knew what has happening was through cable news, which showed us edited video of “thunder runs” and the Jessica Lynch dramatization.

It sure wasn’t from seeing caskets. That was censored so that Americans wouldn’t get their feelings hurt, which, you know, sometimes happens in a war. And it sure wasn’t from paying more taxes like we used to do in wars, in fact, we were giving a big tax cut.

The Taliban regime in Afghanistan was routed by the Northern Alliance, with some special forces tagging along to call in airstrikess. It wasn’t a war.

Even when we put together something that could be called a war, it was aimed at a country that had absolutely nothing to do with 911, according to George Bush’s own words:

QUESTION: What did Iraq have to do with it?

BUSH: What did Iraq have to do with what?

QUESTION: The attack on the World Trade Center.

BUSH: Nothing. Except it’s part of — and nobody has suggested in this administration that Saddam Hussein ordered the attack. Iraq was a — Iraq — the lesson of September 11th is take threats before they fully materialize, Ken. Nobody’s ever suggested that the attacks of September the 11th were ordered by Iraq.

But at least the war in Iraq was over by May 1, 2003 when Bush said, under that Mission Accomplished banner provided to the aircraft carrier by the White House, that major combat operations in Iraq were over. What followed was years of mismanaged occupation, including no-bid reconstruction contracts for American companies which excluded local Iraqi labor from working to rebuild their country after we blew it up.

So we could be forgiven for not treating more terror attacks as an act of war, because for seven years we haven’t been acting very much like we’re even at war.

Nov 28, 2008 - 6:25 am 29. Cascajun:

Regarding the use of Hama Rules:

After the Massacre: “Western countries denounced the attack as a breach of human rights and a massacre. In an official speech, Al-Assad called on the world not to harbour those who fled Syria. His calls fell on deaf ears. Most members of the Brotherhood fled mainly to Jordan, the U.S, England and Germany. Large numbers of them settled in the latter two, which granted them political asylum.”

Thus, it seems the use of Hama Rules has the risk of potentiating terror and spreading it around the world in much the same way cutting into a cancer tumor can cause it to break up an seed itself into other organs.

Nov 28, 2008 - 8:24 am 30. rumcrook:

saying iraq had “absolutely nothing to do with 911 is flat out wrong.

saddam hosted al queda operatives in iraq. he promoted and allowed terrorist training camps to function in iraq. was he responsible for 911? in as far as he gave support to terrorist orgs and al queda, than yes and so you cannot say “absolutely”

Nov 28, 2008 - 9:53 am 31. rumcrook:

this page contains links and commentary on saddams connection thru his security and intel agencies to al queda and specifically individuals in alqeada who participated in the 911 attacks http://rumcrook2.blogspot.com/

Nov 28, 2008 - 9:59 am 32. whiskey:

Wretchard, Hotair has a link where the Pakistani ISI Chief is going to Bombay to assist in the investigation. The Indians are already talking about War.

Obama is seen as a hostile, pro-Jihad, pro-Pakistani President. Unlike GWB. Obama as a matter of record spent a Summer in Pakistan, traveling on an Indonesian passport. It’s doubtful he was there for the girls or the beaches.

That coupled with this terrorist provocation clearly run by the ISI pretty much guarantees War. India and it’s people don’t CARE what the international community does, and indeed India needs a short, sharp, quick resolution so that outsourcing and tourism can return.

They need a “resolution” of the problem, which means really a complete and total defeat of the Pakistani people and ethnic/religious cleansing of Muslims inside India. Notice I said people not government. India cannot afford in a global downturn the drip-drip-drip effect of attack after attack destroying their outsourcing advantage in the climb out of poverty. At the very least that creates poor people who had only recently climbed out of poverty — a classic pre-revolutionary condition pols are well aware of.

What would defeat of the Pakistani people look like? Killing about 50% of the people I think, which means essentially a first-strike of Nuclear Weapons. Against major Pakistani military installations and nukes AND cities.

The only thing stopping that IMHO is a Pakistani surrender of some convenient ISI people and various cut-outs, either LeT or AQ or whoever.

Nov 28, 2008 - 10:08 am 33. Ruby Red:

Rumcrook said, ’saddam hosted al queda operatives in iraq. he promoted and allowed terrorist training camps to function in iraq. was he responsible for 911? in as far as he gave support to terrorist orgs and al queda, than yes and so you cannot say “absolutely”’

Cheney told the CIA (on White House stationary no less!) to forge an Iraqi document proving that Saddam Hussein was developing nukes and collaborating with al-Qaeda.

The bogus memo said Mohammed Atta was trained in Baghdad and also talked about a Yellowcake shipment from Niger. JC Wilson called bolshevik on that, and they “outed” his wife Valerie in retaliation. I know all this is ancient, sordid history but we don’t forget. The only ones who still go around saying there was a link between Saddam and 911 is World Net Daily and the Elephant Bar. And this place.

Nov 28, 2008 - 10:33 am 34. rumcrook:

we live now in an era of soviet style history, meaning re-write anything you dont like and ignore or quash what you cant.

propaganda and lies are not history ruby red. thats what you spread.

Nov 28, 2008 - 11:05 am 35. peterike:

Wow, it’s been ages since anyone brought up Joe “Bag of Wind” Wilson and his famous glamourpuss wife, Secret Squirrel. Thank you for reminding me, Ruby Red, that traitors live always amongst us. No doubt you are of the ilk that considerous treasonous behavior the highest form of honor.

Nov 28, 2008 - 11:39 am 36. Andrew X:

Ruby, your problem and why no one is listening to you goes back to one line in your first post: “defined by a President who got the member list straight from Jesus.”

One can argue for or against Mr. Bush’s decisions, but when you say that line, you define yourself as someone who has utterly nothing whatosever to add to the conversation that could possibly matter.

Yet so many are unable to offer cogent arguments without such drool slipping through the logic mechanisms and dropping onto the floor like excrement.

Try arguing against Mr. Bush and lose the pathetic nitwtted “straight from Jesus” crap, and maybe people who matter will listen.

Nov 28, 2008 - 11:48 am 37. steveaz:

Wretchard, you wise old bird,
We’ve come full circle now, haven’t we?

Now it’s India’s “chickens” that’re comin’ home to roost! Hindu India is the “White Satan,” and the democratically elected government in New Delhi needs to consider the “root causes” of the attacks on Indian civilians in Mumbai.

How convenient…and how coincidental?

Now that the American Mustang has (apparently) accepted Xerxes’ bit in its mouth, Washington DC may have been removed from the immediate-attack list. And the Jihad has decided to refocus its fear-mongerinig on the caliphate’s other obstruction in central Asia.

If they’re smart, the Jihadis’ll see fit to give our Kenyan President-elect some room to work. They should know the game by now.

Nov 28, 2008 - 2:23 pm 38. JFSanders:

@Cascajun #29,

I agree with you. The only way to be sure about ridding yourself of a cancer is to irradiate it and then treat what is left with very strong chemicals. I suggest we apply the appropriate protocols to our cancer as soon as possible. Wink and nod…

Jim

Nov 28, 2008 - 4:33 pm

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