Comments on: A Marine Officer on the Mumbai tactics

By: Kalroy

Kalroy — Thu, 18 Dec 2008 20:30:22 +0000

Late Post:

Videogames. Recently there was some modest success with “Army of Two” whose entire premise was “Buddy System” combat.

Kalroy

By: Shaan

Shaan — Sat, 06 Dec 2008 13:07:56 +0000

I had mentioned in my comment (comment no 49), that US counter terrorism training could have been used by the Pakistani military to train the terrorists in the buddy pair tactics.
http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/11/29/a-marine-officer-on-the-mumbai-tactics/#comment-49

Here is an important personality who shares my view – David J. Kilcullen, Special Advisor for Counterinsurgency to Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice.
http://www.securitymanagement.com/news/mumbai-terrorists-must-have-had-commando-training-says-counterinsurgency-expert-004963

By: Pros and Cons

Pros and Cons — Thu, 04 Dec 2008 17:09:33 +0000

[...] really good observation on the attacks, posted here at Belmont Club. A few relevant snippets, though the whole thing is great, and really pretty short (shouldn’t [...]

By: Tim

Tim — Wed, 03 Dec 2008 01:23:09 +0000

On another note, I think a lot of people have suddenly learned the difference between fighting effectively and running around with a weapon and no clue how to fight with it (or lacking the motivation to do so).

The outcome of what happened in Mumbai did not come as much of a suprise to anyone trained to fight with long arms – i.e., the military. We’re not talking about anything that isn’t taught in Basic Combat Training.

By: Dave

Dave — Tue, 02 Dec 2008 17:37:21 +0000

Bob: Ammo for AKS 74 was a bureaucrats dream.

Took the 7.62 x 39 shell and necked it down to 5.45 mm. Thus you had US 223 ballistics but still had to carry the bulkier cartridge.

I have read comments by General Kalishnikov
of this subject. He was NOT pleased.

By: Mumbai and self-defense - Page 3 - INGunOwners

Mumbai and self-defense - Page 3 - INGunOwners — Tue, 02 Dec 2008 17:31:14 +0000

[...] and made Pervez Musharraf’s life a living hell. The Bombay attacks just seemed more like a planned military operation. Belmont Club has some additional thoughts:The reality, according to an article in India

By: Bob Murphy

Bob Murphy — Tue, 02 Dec 2008 07:30:17 +0000

158. programmer:
“Have you ever done any extended firing with an AK?” Yeah, I was scout in a Long Range Recon Patrol Company and the Soviet Order of Battle Instructor. I had an East Germany folding stock AK as a personal weapon for 18 months and put thousands of rounds of Finnish Lapua ammo through it. My ears still ring.
I also owned a Russian one in San Francisco after discharge.
I liked them. Easy to carry, never malfunctioned, barrels and chambers were chromed, 30 round magazines standard equipment.
Bad things were they used to rust and I had to wipe them down with an oily rag 3x a day in Germany in the field.
Their accuracy wasn’t as good at 300m as an M-16 but in my book the 7.62×39 Warsaw Pact round was a better one.
Utter reliability is important to me in a “working” environment.
I noticed in all that shooting with M-16s in Heat that there wasn’t a single malfunction. Good thing they were shooting in a clean environment.
I never shot the later AKs. I think the AK-74 would have been a very good rifle.
As one of the other posters said, the AK was a huge improvement over the PPsh tommy gun.
They look a lot like the WW German MP 43 and 44 but are very different mechanically.

By: DrJSW

DrJSW — Mon, 01 Dec 2008 23:07:11 +0000

I am intrigued by the inclusion of the “buddy-team” you-tube clip from the movie HEAT with this article. I have been showing the HEAT video clip to my law enforcement classes for several years.

Initially my emphasis was solely to demonstrate the fundamental need for precision shot placement, which is the core of my training program. In the clip this is demonstrated by the Kilmer and DeNiro characters initially, then subsequently by the Pacino character on Sizemore. But about a year ago the effectiveness of the disciplined DeNiro/Kilmer “buddy-team” against a numerically overwhelming but disorganized police force hit me like a brick between the eyes. Since then I have been emphasizing to everyone I train that we in law enforcement have an urgent need to train our people for rehearsed as well as extemporaneous “buddy-teaming” because whether the offenders are a pair of disaffected teens, armed bank robbers, or jihadist terrorists, the tactics required to counter the threat are EXACTLY THE SAME.

The final point I would make is that unlike the military, law enforcement personnel face a much higher probability that dealing with an active shooter(s) situation will require them to work with a person who is not their dedicated “buddy-team” partner. This requires some commonality of training within and between agencies such that any two officers responding to an active shooter call can rapidly default to the same base rules of engagement and comms and proceed forthwith.

Excellent article. Thanks for posting it.

James S Williams MD
http://www.tacticalanatomy.com

By: Belmont Club » From readers

Belmont Club » From readers — Mon, 01 Dec 2008 22:58:07 +0000

[...] reader submits another “buddy pair” video, this time from a professional training [...]

By: LarryD

LarryD — Mon, 01 Dec 2008 22:41:17 +0000

“One fires while the other moves, and then they switch.”

Bounding Overwatch, applied to the minimal unit.