69 Comments

1. Joshua:

When the jungle and civilization meet, the jungle wins unless the civilized man is armed and knows how to use them. But maybe nobody remembers that any more.

I might have added “…and is not afraid or ashamed to use them.” That seems to me a bigger problem today than a lack of knowledge.

Jun 4, 2009 - 7:41 pm 2. Thrasymachus:

If the criminal justice system is weak in the end it’s because the people want it that way. The people of California fought the liberal judicial establishment for years- including the recall of two state Supreme Court justices- but largely prevailed.

I have been living in a liberal northern city for awhile with a serious street crime problem. The police couldn’t care less- don’t bother calling 911. The city attorney and county attorney see themselves at least in part as advocating for defendants. But that is because the voters here want it that way, and they can’t connect the dots between a young woman stabbed to death by a homeless man with numerous violent parole violations and their elected officials.

I think in the UK there is probably more of a disconnect between what the people want and what the criminal justice system does but still the Brits are pretty squishy.

Jun 4, 2009 - 7:55 pm 3. Mad Fiddler:

How strangely familiar all of this seems….

For several decades here in the state where I live, it has been treated by some local news stations as a punishable civil breach for a newsreader to indicate the racial or Islamic affinities of a suspect wanted for a hideous crime, lest ill thoughts be thunk of other more innocent members of those press… er, victim groups.

This has repeatedly lead to reports in which the local news tells us of a vicious crime with a freshly mutilated or expired victim, and the person who did this heinous act is on the loose, but we can’t tell you his name or mention the race so you could possibly, maybe kinda sorta IDENTIFY him, or protect yourself. Oops. Did I say “him?” I meant, um… “The person… of interest… in connection with this… er, uh, incident.”

If the suspect is a white male, they helpfully display a photograph.

Oddly, this helps a bit for us slow types to decode the system.

Jun 4, 2009 - 7:56 pm 4. Marcus Aurelius:

Even here in the States were we are supposedly gun toting knuckle draggers with itchy trigger fingers we have to constantly fight and demand our rights to protect ourselves.

I bring this notion up all the time. The police in our society are more often there to investigate and arrest perpetrators not prevent perpetration. God bless and protect the police, but in a free & open society (even in less free & open) they can not be everywhere at all times. People must be responsible for their own defense.

On imprisonment. The left sees no connection between incarceration & crime rates. It is incredible on a regular basis we see stories demanding reduced prison funding — because there is reduced crime.

The big story out of Milwaukee is a security guard killing robbers at a short term lending shop (write a check, get cash, the store holds the check until the date in the agreement). A clerk at a “stop-n-rob” some years ago shot and killed a guy who was robbing his store and Milwaukee charged him with carrying a concealed weapon. Eventually the Supreme Court of WI ruled he has the right to do that, however, we are now in the absurd position of having the right but not being allowed to exercise it.

Fortunately, it sounds like the security guard in the check for cash store is not going to be persecuted.

Jun 4, 2009 - 7:57 pm 5. Mad Fiddler:

I apologize for my sarcasm, which actually obscures the point.

The point is that the insane withholding of information which is actually in the possession of the authorities and the news media ACTUALLY INCREASES the general anxiety and mistrust by the public of any ethnic or religious group that fits the minimal information given.

They KNOW it isn’t white males, because the stations ALWAYS display a picture if it IS a white male. So the unintended and inevitable consequence is general increased hostility and distrust for exactly the groups the station wished to appease by deliberately withholding the information!

What staggering stupidity.

- – - – - -

Jun 4, 2009 - 8:06 pm 6. Marcus Aurelius:

Mad Fidler,

Hehehehe, prior to going to the UAE I was advised to get an HIV test as if I was infected expenses to get back were on my very light purse. Anyway, I was sitting with the clerk making the arrangements for the test and he informed they called the test not an HIV Test or a similarly descriptive term, no, it was the “Special Test” I asked if there were any other “Special Test”s and he chuckled and said no. So too it is with news reports of crime, if they don’t report the race then you know its either Hispanic or Black (those who are Muslim here are good people, at least so far they are). The only difference there are two obvious and unrevelaed alternatives.

Jun 4, 2009 - 8:22 pm 7. Biff Larkin:

“Sonnex was sentenced to a minimum of 40 years and Farmer was told he must stay in prison for a minimum of 35 years.”

Both will be able to kill again.

Jun 4, 2009 - 8:37 pm 8. tRex:

Unless the justice system reforms there will be vigilantism

Jun 4, 2009 - 9:07 pm 9. PA Cat:

Another point worth remembering in this context is that the succession of high muckamucks who let these psychopaths go free to prey on the innocent doubtless live in gated communities or the fortified urban equivalent with all sorts of security devices and personnel. They are protected from the risks that they expect the rest of us to run in the name of their precious PC. As with private schools, conspicuous energy consumption, and flagrant tax evasion, there is one rule for the elites and another for the “little people.” Quod licet Jovi, non licet bovi, as the old Romans used to say.

Jun 4, 2009 - 10:01 pm 10. Lifeofthemind:

wretchard said:
Over time, some societies forget that safety is not a natural condition, but a hard won commodity.

Western Civilization triumphed because it excelled at fostering individual initiative while cultivating those skills needed for the collective application of violence. Hence, “The Battle of Waterloo was won on the playing fields of Eton”. Whether the Duke of Wellington said it or not the shocking loss of the skills and the emotional reflexes needed to defend the community over the last three generations are dramatic.

Critics of Scouting and compulsory gym uniforms and Color Wars and a host of other issues complained that these activities, that had been a traditional part of maturation for generations, were secret training in militarism that children had to be protected from. They were half right. They were part of a coordinated program and the children did not need to protected from them but rather should have been encouraged to participate. These activities were part of a natural and conscious effort to instill in the youth those qualities, such as teamwork, courage, initiative, and self discipline, needed for a successful response to aggression. The key was to ensure that all those qualities were instilled in those who by education and association were not only likely to assume positions of leadership but who were also imbued with an appreciation for the humane values and achievements of the civilization that made it worth the sacrifice of defending.

Civilizations can commit suicide by adapting pacifism in the face of aggression. One example was the Khmer of 700 years ago whose devotion to Theravadra Buddhism, whatever its other merits, left them ill equipped to respond to aggression by the Thai or the Vietnamese. It is an error in logic to assume that a sub optimal choice can not be made. That would be as wrong as to assume that in biology an organism will develop a mutation that produces a desired benefit.

Jun 4, 2009 - 10:31 pm 11. Dave:

The fact that England has effectively outlawed
self-defense means that sociopathic and even psychopathic behavior tends to be consequence-free.

With these two perps, it was not a matter of if, but of when.

If the victims had managed to repel the attack,(with or without firearms or other devices) it would NOT have taken 16 days before an army of police and prosecutors would have been on them like malodor on fecal matter.

And there are those who wish that system to be imposed here. Those should be the first hanged.

Jun 4, 2009 - 10:37 pm 12. Dave:

PS: I recall a case in Houston in the early 90s when a drunken Scot tried to forcibly enter a Texas residence.

His family was simply appalled when the Grand Jury no-billed the homeowner.

Jun 4, 2009 - 10:46 pm 13. Marcus Aurelius:

I like to hang out in our state’s lake region when I can. Fortunately, I have a front seat ticket. Soon, I see myself sitting on a dock on the shores of a 1400 acre lake sipping some LaCrosse Lager and being mesmerized by the gentle sounds of the waves lapping on the shore, the wind blowing, the blue skies all very “peaceful and serene”.

However, one only has to know only a little bit about fish to understand the peace I feel is not all felt by the fish just some yards from me. Eagles from above, foxes, fisher, mink from the shore, other bigger fish from around them, an existence without taxpayer paid healthcare in the event of fungal, viral, or bacterial infections, and the dreaded fisherman with his hooks.

No one wishes to return ourselves to that situation, but I only wish a lot of people had an understanding and appreciation for what they have.

Jun 4, 2009 - 11:36 pm 14. Beverly:

Police, the Chalk Outline Boys.

Police: when seconds count, the cops are only minutes away.

Arm yourselves. Fight for your Constitutional rights. Check out and support the NRA and others, if you haven’t already.

By the yard it’s hard; by the inch it’s a cinch.

Jun 5, 2009 - 12:06 am 15. wildernesscalling:

MF (#3) GEE, I was always having a hard time figuring out why so many coloreds were in jail when only white male pictures are shown on the news suspected of doing crime!

Jun 5, 2009 - 1:04 am 16. whiskey:

NONE of this happens in a vacuum.

Morlocks like Farmer and Sonnex are the products of a brutal competition for women by which the most brutal man gets the most women. See Dalyrmple’s “Life at the Bottom” for how this works (even among or ESPECIALLY among) his educated, professional nurses, all who passed up nice decent men for high-testosterone abusers. Or watch an Rap Video, same thing. Or watch female entertainment like “Buffy the Vampire Slayer” (where the bad boy vamp Spike sexually assaults Buffy and she loves him even more).

Or watch the parade of pretty young women who overestimate the control over bad boys like Van Der Sloot, or the Petersons, Drew and Scott, or whoever. Because they could intimidate and stare down nice law abiding beta guys.

The monsters were created because women wanted them, slept with them, rewarded them at every turn. Hoping to make their power their own. On a leash.

Next, the leash on the law, the PC rules, the money-saving, did not come out of a vacuum either. It did not just “happen” like suddenly flipping tails instead of heads with a coin. It’s not random.

Women, again, DEMAND the release of dangerous criminals. Outlaw self-defense and possession of self-defense weapons. DEMAND ultra-PC and Multiculturalism and the like.

Women like the power, the danger, the excitement, the thrills of these guys, and as a bloc voting group make sure they get it. Make sure violent, dangerous men, even ones from their own race, are left pretty much unmolested by the police. By voting for these policies, and those who back them.

Because women DO have a power. They CAN exert some power, control, a leash on these guys. For a while. Until the leash breaks. Dalrymple’s seen it a zillion times. I’ve seen it.

Women are generally sheltered, culturally and economically and socially, from the real, downside threat of violence. Women are unwilling to have the kind of society where a Sonnex or Farmer were arrested and imprisoned for fifty years, no parole, no right, no nothing. Women are unwilling to cede power to “beta” males who have the ability (and the willingness to use it) to simply crush men like Farmer and Sonnex when they exhibit threats to “their” women, friends, neighbors.

Had Sonnex or Farmer existed in the America of pre- or post-Civil War South, they would have been shot on the street, or stabbed to death, or hung by vigilantes. They would not have been tolerated. We don’t live in that society today, and in many ways are better for it, but this is not one of them.

Women are not willing to pay for things like long prison terms, big militaries, a police force well staffed, led, and empowered to pick up violent, dangerous men, give them a beating (as a deterrent, threat to others, and punishment) and long lock-ups.

Because doing so increases male power, particularly beta male guys who are not very “hot” like either Tony Blair or the thug down the street (each in his own way), but nevertheless form the bulwark of protection against threats.

Every boy grows up wanting to be a cowboy, or Superman, and fight bad guys. It takes a female dominated society that aims above all else to preserve female power (and the monsters most women find thrilling) to thwart that inborn need.

In a male-oriented society, a guy like the Milwaukee security guard would be honored by the Mayor, have women offering proposals, get the key to the city, while the guy he shot would have his survivors slinking out of town in the dead of night to avoid getting beaten.

But it’s not. That you DON’T see that should tell you how gender-skewed the West really is.

Jun 5, 2009 - 1:13 am 17. whiskey:

Having seen these guys scars from fighting, shaved heads, and so on, I will make these predictions:

1. These guys will have an AMAZING amount of ex-girlfriends, all likely abused, who will say things along the lines of “well he was so wonderful and tender” etc.

2. Now that they are super-predators, they’ll have even MORE women throwing themselves at them. This happens every time.

3. Between the two, no less than three kids.

4. Most of their girlfriends will be at least modestly pretty, or were pretty during the relationship. People will look at them and say, “is that the BEST you could do?”

Let’s see how accurate the darts are.

Jun 5, 2009 - 1:20 am 18. wretchard:

The problem I have with the theory that the women have feminized society is why the men went along. Clearly they would have to cooperate if the transformation is to work. And it seems to me the most “feminized” of excuses to give for inaction is ‘we men are weak and helpless because the women feminized us’. Only a man who has feminized himself can say this without shame. You have to be feminized in the first place to agree to be “feminized”, with apologies to the ladies.

I know the type of woman you are talking about, Whiskey. The ‘please beat me sorts’. But not every woman is like that. I know some that would knife the man or fire buckshot into the face of the likes of these two losers, who by the looks of them, are no “super-predators”. They have pitiful physiques and look drug addled. What they have over the civilian is a lack of inhibition to use violence. That’s the advantage of most criminals over civilians. Their predatory advantage is their savagery. But should they meet a calm man who is quite willing to give as good as he gets, these two will be taken apart, and how.

I think the real problem has less to do with women than men. It’s true that the PC brigade have dreamed up all these fantastically stupid rules, these mincing obsequious apologies for everything. Yet if you back in history you’ll see instances of societies behaving like sheep or lions going back to antiquity. The difference comes down to what the people of that era, both men and women, decide to do with their lives. Nothing is preordained about either bravery or cowardice. It’s all up to you. Realizing that, I think, is half the battle.

Jun 5, 2009 - 2:31 am 19. twobyfour:

Whiskey, I don’t know your history, but you may have a some circumstances in your life that forced you to create a mold to explain them and that’s that–you take everything and pass that through that filter, even to the degree that you reverse Dalrymple’s vignettes by putting the cart before the horse.

The behavioral patterns that you describe are not a result of femalian conspiracy, they are rather a result of Gramscian attempts (sucessful, unfortunately) to corrupt western society.

Go back 150 years and observe wild west females, independent and tough. It was not the criminals that were alphas–they were rightfully in the category of lowlife scum, and dealt with in according fashion–lock and load; it were the decent men that were alphas and event beta males were preferable to the lowlife scum. Raising children was considered a serious job. Even for my mother, and that was mere half-a-century ago, and behind iron curtain.

Don’t take a segment that you are familiar with as a measure of generalized pattern, you are then putting yourself on the side of misogynists like Islamists.

Jun 5, 2009 - 3:42 am 20. wretchard:

I think politics is a better explanation for dysfunction than “feminization”. One is tempted to laugh at the British, but STRATFOR implies that one of the reasons the FBI couldn’t prevent the attack on an Arkansas recruiting center by someone they suspected was an extremist wasn’t only a lack of manpower (pardon the pun) but identity and religious politics.

However, politics have proved obstructive to all facets of counterterrorism policy. And politics may have been at play in the Muhammad case as well as in other cases involving Black Muslim converts. Several weeks ago, STRATFOR heard from sources that the FBI and other law enforcement organizations had been ordered to “back off” of counterterrorism investigations into the activities of Black Muslim converts. At this point, it is unclear to us if that guidance was given by the White House or the Department of Justice, or if it was promulgated by the agencies themselves, anticipating the wishes of President Barack Obama and Attorney General Eric Holder.

As STRATFOR has previously noted, the FBI has a culture that is very conservative and risk-averse. Many FBI supervisors are reluctant to authorize investigations that they believe may have negative blow-back on their career advancement. In light of this institutional culture, and the order to be careful in investigations relating to Black Muslim converts, it would not be at all surprising to us if a supervisor refused to authorize a full-field investigation of Muhammad that would have included surveillance of his activities. Though in practical terms, even if a full-field investigation had been authorized, due to the caution being exercised in cases related to Black Muslim converts, the case would most likely have been micromanaged to the point of inaction by the special agent in charge of the office involved or by FBI headquarters.

I don’t want to turn this into an Islam-bashing thread, and I will simply note in passing that political sensitivity reared its ugly head in the case of Sandy Berger and numerous other cases. Politics is equal opportunity stupid. The thing is that if you have political juice then people worried about their careers will think twice about treating you like an ordinary member of the public.

Jun 5, 2009 - 4:45 am 21. Don51:

This is what happens when ‘process’ becomes more important than ‘purpose’ of an organization, when the trappings and rituals displace function. If you recall Romeo and Juliet, you also recall a world that reflected Shakespeare’s time of vendetta by powerful factions and people. It took a long time, long since forgotten, for the state to become the arbiter of justice. In Romeo and Juliet the Prince is unable to ’police’ the two clans. Even in our modern media, it’s reflected in The Godfather as the mortician pleads for justice from the Don in the beginning of the film. When process displaces purpose, that purpose goes elsewhere and with it the power. That’s why the state is often seen coming down faster and harder on the ‘vigilante’ than the criminal, because the criminal is not a threat to the power of the state, rather the act of the vigilante is a direct challenge to the legitimacy of state.

Some vigilante action occurred recently in Philadelphia -

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,525088,00.html

The police are not going to press charges. At least in some communities in America, the DA understands that there is no reason to waste resources if he can’t get a conviction. Right to a jury trial works two ways. When the community no longer believes that the state is willing or able to provide justice, it can be the means by which a community absolves members of its own in providing justice they seek but can not find in practice.

Jun 5, 2009 - 5:18 am 22. Papabear:

Whiskey,

Regarding women’s attraction to rogues, in prior days that was tempered by the unavoidable necessity to find a husband who could actually earn a living and support a family. They might have found the rogues exciting, but had little choice but to select the guy with the steady job.

The welfare system, and increased female participation in the work force changed all that. Now a working woman can earn her own living, have an exciting thug boyfriend, and toss him when he gets boring.

In the inner city, there’s also the practical consideration that a woman NEEDS somebody who is willing and able to protect her from all the OTHER thugs in the neighborhood. When she’s young and attractive, it’s her boyfriend. As she gets older, she needs to have sons who are violent and thuggish enough to protect her, or have a daughter who will attract boyfriends willing to protect the household.

It is the removal of the need of the woman to have to have a good husband which allowed the pathologies of the underclass to emerge.

Jun 5, 2009 - 5:59 am 23. Clioman:

“The conspicuous consumption of safety.” Now THERE is a phrase for our time, and on so, so many levels.

Jun 5, 2009 - 6:01 am 24. RWE:

I am afraid that Wretchard insults the Morlocks by his comparison.

In the Wells story the Morlocks labored long and hard in depths of the Earth so that the Eloi could dance in the sun. What they did I don’t know. Maybe they made electricity. Maybe they watered and fertilzed the fruit trees the Elon depended on for food. But I think they did something useful.

The beasts that killed those two Frenchmen serve no useful purpose, probably even less so than do, say, mosquitos and flies. I suppose that we could say that without them we would have inadequate labor to perform landscaping or mop the floors – but they are a pathogen that comes with the stuff we need, some e-coli in the water supply or the peanut butter. Maybe the importation of cheap labor is useful but along with it comes such as they, that serve no useful purpose in their own right.

Jun 5, 2009 - 6:33 am 25. Agoraphobic Plumber:

I can’t believe this comment thread doesn’t have any references to A Clockwork Orange.

Jun 5, 2009 - 6:58 am 26. Weary_G:

This post brought to mind several things that tie together for me.

I have recently had friendly debates with a left-leaning person over numerous topics, including torture and the existence of evil (she does not like the use of the word as counter-productive and to religiously tinged).

During one discussion, I tried to point out that the freedoms and society we have did not always exist, that it had to be fought for, and gaining it was not always pretty, nor sometimes would keeping it be easy.

She admitted (she is refreshingly candid for someone of the left) that she was somewhat taking for granted the free society she lives in, and I pointed out that it was entirely possible we would lose it if we were not careful and willing to fight for it.

During our discussions, it became obvious that she was really sensitive to all violence, something that was confirmed when I showed her the Battle at Kruger video. She kept hiding her eyes because she did not want to see the baby water buffalo get killed.

“There is a lesson in there for us,” I told her, but when she asked what it was, I found it hard to articulate in the terms of the other discussions we had had on other topics.

This story would have a good analogy.

Dano Sonnex and Nigel Farmer were the lions, who despite their fearsome reputations, attack the smallest of the herd rather than its bulls, for their kill.

The rest of the herd runs off, as they are not predators, and it is not in their design (natural or God inspired) to do so. After all, are not the lions the more fierce, with their ‘red tooth and claw’?

Well, apparently *&%^#@ not, as they soon find out. No, it turns out when the herd is motivated and led, and it decides it will not let one of its own fall victim, when it is time to turn on the aggressors, it becomes fearsome; it becomes overwhelming; it becomes the hunter.

The lions roar and snarl to keep back, but it is in vain, and you begin to see the fear in them. They soon become the chased, the attacked, the weak and it suddenly dawns on you.

Had the buffaloes, upon first seeing the lions lying in wait, charged them instead of fleeing, they would have killed or driven them off with no risk to any of their number. In fact, where they to do that every time, there would never be a lion that tasted the flesh of buffalo again.

I see this little drama playing out all around the world, and the sickening thing is knowing how many have, are and will pay the price before the herd fully turns and begins the counter-attack. I then fear that by the time it does, it will be in such a desperate situation, the reaction will be horrifyingly vengeful, if not altogether understandable.

John Birmingham wrote a serious of books of alt-history where an American led naval task-force from the year 2021 is transported by accident to 1942. Its a ripping good read, but dark, as the people of the future appear to be cold and inhuman in waging war to the Yanks and Brits of ‘42.

The reason is the people of 2021 are still fighting the war on terror 20 years later, but by that time the casualties number in the millions and whole cities have been wiped out. Summary battlefield executions have been become legal and standard as the level of atrocity committed by jihadists made it necessary to meet out immediate sanction.

Yeah, it’s only fiction, the trend-lines don’t make it seem all that implausible.

I fear we are allowing the heinous and evil to grow common-place in our worlds, and that two possible alternatives are descent into barbarism or vicious counter-reaction that will make our hand-wringing over water-boarding and collateral damage seem absolutely quaint.

WG

Jun 5, 2009 - 6:59 am 27. Agoraphobic Plumber:

“I know some that would knife the man or fire buckshot into the face of the likes of these two losers, who by the looks of them, are no “super-predators”.”

I know at least one woman who wouldn’t bother with a knife or gun, she’d just rip their genitals off and feed them to them. Both at once. And she doesn’t really look the part…she’s actually kind of hot.

There are more of that type of woman around than many men seem to think. If I was as “feminized” as her, I’d feel pretty manly indeed.

Jun 5, 2009 - 7:02 am 28. Fletcher Christian:

“Men” of that sort aren’t even actually all that tough.

I remember a case, about 20 years ago when the PC virus had not quite taken over Britain’s laws, that had me actually laughing at a report of a 12-year-old girl being attacked (probably with a view to gang rape) by three men at a bus stop. Why did I laugh? Because they lost.

It turned out that the girl in question was under-15 South East England full-contact karate champion. One of the men later turned up in A&E with a broken arm and another turned up with concussion. Apparently, the girl cooly went to the nearest public phone, called the police and asked for an ambulance – but the perps had all disappeared when it arrived.

The coda to this story is that one of the men actually tried to have the girl arrested for assault and battery.

Jun 5, 2009 - 7:29 am 29. RWE:

Fletcher #28:

Back in the early 70’s in Columbia SC there was an outbreak of racial violence at a high school. Small gangs of whites or blacks were going around picking out a couple of victims to beat up in revenge for others having done the same thing.

One day 3 black youths picked out a couple of smallish white boys to whump up on. The father of one of the white boys ran a karate school. You can imagine what happened next. At least no one was killed in the fracas.

And the whumpers who got whumped instead did take the two smaller boys to court. The judge took one look at the two white kids and the three larger black kids and said “Ya gotta be kiddin’ me! Case dismissed”

Jun 5, 2009 - 8:33 am 30. RWE:

By the way, something interesting came up in the case of the Oklahoma City druggest who shot and killed a robber. He is being charged with murder.

Part of his defense is that he is a military veteran and he “engaged the enemy” in a military manner. In other words, the objective was to render the enemy incapable of causing any harm to him or the two women in the store. Hence he not only shot the teenager but came back and pumped 5 more rounds into him after making sure the other robber was out of sight down the street. The interesting thing about this is that is exactly the way I would have looked at such a situation.

Jun 5, 2009 - 8:39 am 31. Thrasymachus:

Willingness to resort to violence may be a matter of survival for middle class people as well as the lower class. See VDH’s recent post on a water dispute with a neighboring farmer.

Jun 5, 2009 - 9:30 am 32. spindok:

The Morlocks, like lions, were merely hungry. They were a product of Darwinian evolution. The Morlocks and Eloi were not simply dressing and acting differently. They had diverged on seperate evolutionary paths and were, or were becoming, seperate species from a common ancestor.

In Wells’ story things are rather simple. Morlocks are morlocks and eloi are eloi. There is no predation within species and both are trapped in a natural order in which they have lost the ability to change. Worse, they have lost the very concept of change.

It is the loss of this capacity, the uniquely human sense of time as a progressive mutable dimension, which makes both Morlocks and Eloi no longer human in the sense we can understand it. Like lions, fish and dogs, they no longer plan or question. They have no history and no future.

Perhaps the point then is that it is our unique capacity to think of ourselves as outside of the jungle, while we are also clearly within it, which makes us human. It takes a lot of confidence to wear pointy shoes.

We were once certain that we had been given the gift of dominion over the earth and all that is in it, including each other. Post modernism has eroded that to the point where few even question the ‘fact’ that gobal warming will kill us all or that Saudi Whabbism is no worse than liberal democracy.

The criminal justice system in this case is just shrugging its shoulders. It goes about its job with no more sense of intellegent purpose than a kitten playing with a ball of yarn. It has given up because ‘crime will always be there, so why bother trying too much’. Like the Eloi, postmodern society is not moving further away from the jungle, just moving down the food chain.

Spindok

Jun 5, 2009 - 10:38 am 33. Roderick Reilly:

“”"”"“I know some that would knife the man or fire buckshot into the face of the likes of these two losers, who by the looks of them, are no “super-predators”.””"”"”"

Her name was Lima, and she was originally from Lithuania. Tall, blond, athletic, and stunning. She was on a date with some malignant narcissist, and while they sat in a cafe, he suggested they call the evening short and head over to his place for you-know-what. She said no, she just wasn’t that into him. He got angry, grabbed her hand, and ground out his lit cigarette in her hand. It was her right hand. She clocked him in the jaw with a left jab that sent him out cold and to the floor. True story. No embellishment whatosever.

Some enchanted evening, huh?

Jun 5, 2009 - 10:39 am 34. weary_g:

“Her name was Lima, and she was originally from Lithuania. Tall, blond, athletic, and stunning. She was on a date with some malignant narcissist, and while they sat in a cafe, he suggested they call the evening short and head over to his place for you-know-what. She said no, she just wasn’t that into him. He got angry, grabbed her hand, and ground out his lit cigarette in her hand. It was her right hand. She clocked him in the jaw with a left jab that sent him out cold and to the floor. True story. No embellishment whatosever.’”

One, wonders, however, what she saw in him in the first place. I find it hard to believe that such an animal did not give off some warning signs early on, and the question is; were those warning signs perceived, and deemed attractive initially?

In any event, I am glad she cold-cocked the SOB, though.

WG

Jun 5, 2009 - 10:50 am 35. weary_g:

This seems appropriate:

Statement for US Attorney Eric Holder -

U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder released the following statement relating to President Obama’s historic speech today in Cairo, Egypt:

“The President’s pledge for a new beginning between the United States and the Muslim community takes root here in the Justice Department where we are committed to using criminal and civil rights laws to protect Muslim Americans. A top priority of this Justice Department is a return to robust civil rights enforcement and outreach in defending religious freedoms and other fundamental rights of all of our fellow citizens in the workplace, in the housing market, in our schools and in the voting booth.

“There are those who will continue to want to divide by fear – to pit our national security against our civil liberties – but that is a false choice. We have a solemn responsibility to protect our people while we also protect our principles.”

Whew! Glad to know the Justice Department is FINALLY gonna crack down on those Jewish snipers, Buddhist bombers, Catholic kidnappers and Wiccan Wahhabists attacking American Muslims. I feel safer.

WG

Jun 5, 2009 - 10:59 am 36. Sylvia:

18 & 19/Sirs, thank you. W, I think you are spot on with the point about politics. I think also we’re up against the long-term aggregate of case law that needs weeding, let alone judges who think of work just as a job, not as a calling.

As for feminization, self-defense, and women of the wild west, it’s a choice each of us faces, male or female, and most ignore. Are you going to be able to take care of yourself and your loved ones when push comes to shove? Can you function solo and as part of a team? Can you think on your feet? Can you recognize evil? In an absolute case, it is not a gender-based condition, but training and mind-set. What is your life worth to you?

I have made some hard choices in order to survive, and each one has galvanized and strengthened my ability to make the next set of choices. Many of my friends, male and female, have led worker bee lives with stresses and traumas that to them seemed huge but were usually, on an absolute scale, not life-threatening. When faced with evil, they don’t recognize it and thus believe it doesn’t even exist. When faced with a hard choice, they hem and haw. The few who are veterans are more incisive and don’t get caught up in doubt-laced subroutines.

Bet #33’s Lima never dated another creep like that again — she could see them for what they were after that initial experience.

Jun 5, 2009 - 12:06 pm 37. Roderick Reilly:

#36 Sylvia:

Lima’s exploit got around Georgetown (1978) pretty quickly. She was no ditz. The incident with the idiot was totally unexpected, as he was a sociopathic creep who hid his violent tendencies well. Men liked Lima, and knew to respect her. The dumbass in the Bistro Francais never got the memo to NOT mess with Lima. She already knew that there were such men in the world, which was why she was so ready to react the way she did. She didn’t even scream when he put out the cigarette in her hand, she was so focused on her retaliation.

Jun 5, 2009 - 12:59 pm 38. no mo uro:

The truth is that both twobyfour and Whiskey are right, they’re just seeing different aspects of the problem.

Whiskey’s dead-nuts-on analysis of the current situation regarding postmodern women’s response to readily available birth control/abortion and, by virtue of having jobs and steady income, the lack of need for provider male, pretty much describes much of the tweener generation as well as Gen X and Gen Y. Yet the environment that led to this change was made possible by the Gramscian termite damage 2×4 describes.

How do I know this? Birth control has been readily available throughout most of the U.S. in the form of condoms since the 1920’s and yet the diminution of family size and the war against men (in particular white men) has only really gotten going in the past twenty or so years. Women had the ability to earn a living and access to birth control for a lot of years without acting the way they do now. Something had to change, and that was the loss of social norming brought about by Gramscian termite damage. In the absence of this – in the social expectation environment that existed prior to the 1960’s – women like the ones Whiskey describes would certainly exist, but they’d be outliers, not the norm. Indoctrination into cultural Marxism and postmodernism, and guilt about the ridiculous bogeyman of overpopulation, are sufficiently strong in many cases to override biological programming (ticking clock). Once this has been overridden, the status seeking predator single women who hate provider males are unleashed in all their fury.

It is not feminization of men, but emasculation of them, that single women seek. If men were feminized, they would be competitors with the women Whiskey describes. Unless they are actually engaged in the act of sex with them, postmodern women do not want men to be masculine, nor feminine, they want them sexless. Some men have figured out that these women will accept as a partner a man who simply agrees with their politics. Hence the rise of the metrosexual, who, much more than the thug class, Whiskey, is the SWPL partner in crime with the single women you chronicle. The thugs tend not to vote, but metrosexuals do, if for no other reason than to prove to the urban leftist females whose favors they hope to receive that they are worthy of said favors.

2×4, I know the tough-minded women of which you speak who are proficient with weapons and will take no crap, and I adore them, but they aren’t a huge chunk of the population right now. Many of the SWPL status-cutthroat women Whiskey describes wouldn’t ever use a weapon or even defend themselves with fists because doing so might risk their status amongst their peers. An example…….perhaps you’ve heard of the all-too-true phenomenon of urban and suburban soccer mommies who will, upon finding out that a friend of their little Jared or Courtney has a mom or dad who likes to hunt or even target shoot, forbid their little bundle of joy from associating with that little friend forever. Not our kind of people, doncha know. Any association with guns, even second or third hand, would guarantee that all the “right people” who are their peers would instantly dump them. You can’t expect someone with that attitude to be much good at defending themselves.

Jun 5, 2009 - 2:00 pm 39. Starling:

I scanned what are now 66 comments on the Daily Mail site. Not one expresses any regret that the UK abolished the death penalty in 1998… Here’s a little background on that from “Justice Not Vengeance”

“The UK abolished the death penalty for all crimes in 1998, the same year Parliament passed the Human Rights Act. Capital punishment for common crimes had been suspended from 1965.

The UK plays a role in advocating against the death penalty through the European Union, which specifies abolition as a criterion for membership. During the UK ’s Presidency in 1998, the EU agreed guidelines on the death penalty, to help formulate its demarches to third countries in which capital punishment remains in use.

Also in 1998, the UK’s Foreign & Commonwealth Office (FCO) set up a ‘Death Penalty Panel’, comprising academics, legal experts and NGO representatives. The Panel helps the government draw up strategies to encourage the worldwide abolition of the death penalty. The FCO also supports projects to raise public awareness about capital punishment through its Human Rights Project Fund.”

http://www.una.org.uk/justicenotvengeance.html

Jun 5, 2009 - 3:14 pm 40. no mo uro:

“A top priority of this Justice Department is a return to robust civil rights enforcement and outreach in defending religious freedoms”

Mr Holder, how much of your energy will be spent on defending religious freedoms of Christians?

Jun 5, 2009 - 4:01 pm 41. Sylvia:

38/nmo. Exactly, and I agree with Whiskey in that aspect also. Guess I’m an outlier. The soccer moms you described? They are creepy! It is very hard to serve on the PTA, let alone forge friendships, with women like that. We agree about a few things like, oh, our kids are important, but for very different reasons. For them, life is a scorecard based on self-aggrandizement, what standing Kayla Ann has in the travel soccer team, where Dayton is going for lacrosse camp, their latest plastic surgery, how their investment in Tesla is doing, the celebrity they saw when dining at … I talk about things like how to increase my daughter’s happiness, the pesto I made from scratch with basil from the farmer’s market, or how much fun it was to teach a kid how to knit last week. Walking on the wild side, for me, is to mention Christianity in an offhand way (just the topic can get them riled), ask if they’ve seen the new gun shop down the street (whoa baby they throw fits about that, and they’ve never even been in the store), or talk about Anthony Watts’ surface stations report. What offends me most is they assume I will agree with them, which I never do, and I have to dance around the topic so my daughter doesn’t get shunned for my beliefs. I would love to be able to stop by the knitting store or a school function and SPEAK, but it’s not going to happen any time soon in Silicon Valley. Sure do miss Montana…

Jun 5, 2009 - 4:15 pm 42. twobyfour:

OK, I believe ya’ll (Whiskey, No Mo, Sylvia). It is just … so outside my experiential reality. This is soo not small town Oklahoma nor Texas.

Maybe that is why I wear my honorific “Redneck” title so proudly.

A friend of mine who lives in small-town VA asked me once why I have such an odd affinity to the flyover country, shouldn’t I be more comfy in places with a cosmopolitan haute culture, given my european roots?

Replied that I prefer one unpretentious redneck to 10 pretentious cosmopolitans, the first being often self-bootstrapped into genuinely sophisticated, while the others being just sophistricated.

Jun 5, 2009 - 5:04 pm 43. peterike:

I recall an early episode of the Sopranos where some guy gets his SUV carjacked by a couple of black punks. In his rage and fear afterward, he responds to his wife’s comments about them being black by saying something like “of course, who else would it be?”

This is the great secret of urban white liberals. Everybody knows who’s responsible for the crime, but we pretend the situation is something else. What else? Who knows, just something else. Just something that let’s me pretend all races are equal.

In New York, for instance, whites are responsible for just over one percent of gun crime. That’s right, one percent. While blacks are responsible for 82 percent. Yet ask any good Manhattan liberal about this, and he’ll probably say something like whites commit half of the crimes, or something that speaks equally of his brain washing.

From my youngest days I could never grasp this twisted need to pardon the criminal and blame or ignore the victim. And those nauseating types that find the only cause worth fighting for is stopping the death penalty (like that terminally idiotic nun, Sister Helen Prejean).

These people have a weird, voyerish blood lust that I’ve never been able to figure out, beyond the broad brush stroke that they have a classic Liberal death wish.

But why? And what turns somebody into such a souless hater of their own world?

Jun 5, 2009 - 5:33 pm 44. twobyfour:

Peterike, maybe there is not enough souls in guff to supply all? Probably not, that is not how things work, I believe.
But there may be soul pawn shop keepers offering gramscian pablum in exchange for a soul.

Jun 5, 2009 - 5:58 pm 45. bogie wheel:

Over at City Journal, Claire Berlinski has an article about British crime statistics, and the discrepancy between the government’s claim that crime has fallen by nearly half over the last decade, and the sense of many in the public that crime is out of control.

A typical comment on the website of the Daily Mail makes the same point: “A few years back I saw someone slash 4 tyres on a car. I did not report it to the police. I am a female, living alone in a rather isolated location. I knew that tyre slashing would probably warrant no more than the police having a word with the perpetrator and leaving it at that, maybe a fine, while the perpetrator would most likely have taken a more robust approach to me.” Another writer to the website says: “I had my car broken into in the Palmers Green area of London. I called the police to obtain a ‘crime number’ but was asked to call back a week later as they were inundated with such requests. When my car was broken into again the following year I didn’t bother reporting it.”

Compare this attitude (the frustration of ordinary citizens that the authorities don’t even bother with “small crimes” anymore because they are too inundated with the big stuff) with Rudy Giuliani’s broken windows theory:

Well, I very much subscribe to the “Broken Windows” theory, a theory that was developed by Professors Wilson and Kelling, 25 years ago maybe. The idea of it is that you had to pay attention to small things, otherwise they would get out of control and become much worse. And that, in fact, in a lot of our approach to crime, quality of life, social programs, we were allowing small things to get worse rather than dealing with them at the earliest possible stage.

The broken windows theory may be valid for several reasons, but I would count one of those reasons as a perceptive observation of human behavior. Namely — a person will almost always ESCALATE his anti-social behavior in the face of what he perceives to be a weak response or non-response. This holds true from the two-year-old with his hand in the cookie jar to Hitler with his troops in everybody else’s capital cities.

That so obvious a truism about the way the world works — demonstrating weakness in the face of aggression guarantees more aggression — is not grasped by so many is staggering. I would like to say that people who are that clueless have no business setting public policy anywhere at any level — from urban crime to foreign policy.

And yet …

And yet …

Weary G’s squeamish acquaintance gets to vote just like the rest of us do. And no doubt votes, if she votes, her hopes (ill-founded though most of us here would call them) instead of the Battle of Kruger reality that’s staring her in the face.

Didn’t someone mention a couple threads back something about packing some noxious group or other off to comparative literature departments where they would do the least harm?

I kind of feel that way about pacifism. It’s a noble personal goal. But it has no place in public policy, on the voter’s end or on the elected official’s end.

And I say this as someone who used to be a pacifist.

Jun 5, 2009 - 6:25 pm 46. Sylvia:

45/bogie. And when Sonex was a tot and bit and hit his mum and broke the windows, she passively shrugged and said, “He’s just being a boy.”

44/2×4. Whose twisted fragment of a soul did Sonex get when he was conceived?

It’s a combination of bad nature and bad nurture, encouraged by a dysfunctional society of cowards. In my small way I’m doing what I can to stem the tide. I give more than I take in both tangible and intangible forms. I volunteer in the schools and libraries. Kids know not to blaspheme or cuss around me; they like the clarity, the boundaries, the standards, and the fact that I listen and then answer their questions. Too little of that in this day and age. I’ve added a good daughter with a strong value set to the mix, but she’s an outlier, too. The challenge of healing society and moving forward is daunting.

Jun 5, 2009 - 7:34 pm 47. no mo uro:

2×4-

I love small town life, my neck tends more towards red than pale, and I also detest self-styled urban sophisticates, but I’d be kidding myself if I thought my little pond represents all 300 million of us here in the U.S.

Jun 5, 2009 - 8:43 pm 48. twobyfour:

No mo, of course it doesn’t represent all 300+ million. But it represents the part that is truly American in spirit and that is viable in the long run.

Jun 5, 2009 - 9:02 pm 49. SpeakEasy:

There was a time not so long ago (my youth~40yrs ago)when police were as interested in prevention as enforcement. From my perspective it was the litigious lawyering that put an end to that. Now they show up to pick up the pieces. I’m sure that is similar to how things were in the old west. But at some point ‘the people’ had enough and contracted a Marshal to do whatever was necessary to provide peace. (see the movie Appoloosa) Those days will come again. Bet on it.

Jun 5, 2009 - 9:07 pm 50. davidt:

On being a man… http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=YTA0Y2EyMzIzOThlMGZmNGIzMGNjMGM2OGM3NjRiNDc=

Jun 5, 2009 - 11:52 pm 51. Dave:

Weary G: I read that same Birmingham book.
Enjoyed it and as you pointed out, it involves very serious business.

However, I did get a good chuckle out of the
1942 reactions when they first encountered
Colonel Lonesome Jones. That was a hoot.

Jun 6, 2009 - 12:46 am 52. Doodle Lee Scott:

We are in the jungle now. Its beginning cannot be seen, but only what is close : Eve Carson, Channon Cristian, Christopher Newsom, ad infinium. Its end is not yet in thought.

Jun 6, 2009 - 6:23 am 53. ConfederateH:

You can sense the same kind of seething malevolence in these 2 gangsters that killed a film editor in Oakland, CA

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/05/19/BAHH17MMH8.DTL

Jun 6, 2009 - 10:27 am 54. Scythianeedle:

Friend of mine had a great dog some years ago. Outdoor type, bred on a sheep farm with its litter mates. Born in the open, lived in the open, happy to be with sheep, even just a handful.

This dog would wander into the family’s garage, which was left open for various reasons, select some interesting item and drag it out onto the lawn.

If no human came out to retrieve it in a day or two, the dog figured it was fair game, and proceeded to gnaw it into little tiny bits.

The “Broken Windows Progression” is writ in our vertebrate DNA.

Jun 6, 2009 - 10:31 am 55. Marie Claude:

“When the jungle and civilization meet, the jungle wins unless the civilized man is armed and able. But maybe nobody remembers that any more”

except that that isn’t jungle, it’s a parallel world of zombies, with aleatories trajectories.

In jungle you know you can either be the prey and or the predator depends on your needs, anyway, one would then expecting its laws, and would hide or fight, but not gratuitously

The problem is in our super-protected societies, we aren’t anymore conscious of dangers ; we have to follow abstrac appeasement rules, that aren’t natural.

Those scums should be eliminated, keeping them alive is denegating our instinct for surviving, that our civilisation of abondance allows. But if we were still in the state of physically suffuring to earn our food, things would be more simple, these murderers would have been eliminated at their first fault.

Jun 6, 2009 - 2:02 pm 56. buddy larsen:

Marie Claude, vous etes une vraie fille de Charlemagne!

Jun 6, 2009 - 2:36 pm 57. twobyfour:

MC, it is not that a civilization overrides the instincts by default… only when things are allowed go to an extreme swing that is then presumed to be the norm. Discarding civilization’s interconnections and nodes and going rural is not the answer.

We don’t have much of rights of passage in our societal structure, and extended neoteny does not help either.

But we are a subject to natural processes, and since we don’t have these structures in place, they will be imposed from without instead–laws of unintended consequences will couple with bell curves envelope and correct the detached from reality, disembodied cultural overlay.

It will be painful, there is no doubt, but in the end, a balance will be found by error, trial and travail.

Jun 6, 2009 - 3:31 pm 58. mac:

RWE@#30,

I read up quite a bit on that case. I too think he was perfectly correct in finishing the punk who was down. Moreover, I wish he had been able to kill the remaining ones. I guarantee he would have saved the taxpayers a LOT of money in the future, not to mention the inevitable victims of the perps’ criminality.

One of the things that I keep wondering about is why no one in that case seems to recall that there were two young women in the pharmacy. If the pharmacist goes down, what tender mercies do you think they would have enjoyed before their inevitable end at the hands of these animals?

The stories of Channon Christian, Christopher Newsom, and the victims of the Wichita Horror have left a deep mark in my soul. I have made it a point to tell those close to me NEVER to submit to black criminality. Better to fight and die standing up rather than being raped and tortured to death, because that is what WILL happen. Being taken by black criminals is equivalent to being captured by Al-Qaida.
If you don’t believe that, go read the statement given by Vanessa Coleman at “The Smoking Gun.” Channon Christian was repeatedly raped all possible ways, beaten, had her neck broken, and died of suffocation after being forced into a garbage can headfirst. The people who could do something like that to such a beautiful young woman did it out of sheer hatred.

That overwhelming hatred for whites felt by most blacks will eventually lead to an equivalent white backlash. When that comes it’s going to be damned ugly because there already is a hell of a lot of pent-up resentment, and the fact that a black president was primarily responsible for ruining the country will just act as an accelerant. The Dems have legitimized racial hatred, but only in a one-way direction. That road goes both ways, however, and I suspect it won’t be long before they see a lot of heavy traffic coming the other way.

Jun 6, 2009 - 3:37 pm 59. Sylvia:

57/2×4: “…going rural is not the answer.”

Well, if that changes, holler. It’s what I’m good at. Just got home from giving an informal talk on making soap.

Jun 6, 2009 - 4:00 pm 60. twobyfour:

Sylvia, I were a bit sloppy… needs to be qualified: The whole society going from industrial to agricultural buccolic utopia is not the answer.

Jun 6, 2009 - 5:16 pm 61. buddy larsen:

Democrats must love racism –they work so hard to create as much of it as they possibly can. The whole party arose in opposition to a system that, delivering as it did on upward mobility and respect for the individual, was just too good not to form a Nemesis.

Jun 6, 2009 - 6:12 pm 62. Mad Fiddler:

In every age the prevailing culture regards itself as the pinnacle of creation, the culmination of a straight-line progress from the primordial soup upward. The top.

We have been devolving.

I assume some records of this particular time will survive the nuclear incinerations now being gleefully planned by the Jihadist eaters of pig droppings. Future historians will look in wonder at the multiform doctrinaire PC selective blindness enforced by the leaders of Western Culture.

They will shake their heads and tsk, and murmur, “Buncha suicidal losers, eh?”

Jun 6, 2009 - 6:59 pm 63. Sylvia:

60/2×4. I’m all for industry, progress, nuclear power…: my spinning wheel is electric. The people who daydream about going back to the land have no idea of how challenging agriculture, let alone sustainable ag, is. [I married into it -- it wasn't an ideological choice to go from computers to a hay rake.]

The women asking about soap-making this morning were aghast at the concept of extending their practical skills to butchering, except for the older woman from the Soviet Union, who got quiet. I became much better at self-defense after working on the chicken farm. I doubt I would have survived an encounter with Sonex, but I like to think I would have done some damage. Most of the people I see on a day-to-day basis would rather die than save themselves by killing their attacker. It boggles my mind.

Jun 6, 2009 - 7:54 pm 64. Marie Claude:

Twobefour

In my mind I didn’t ment the return to buccolic rules, but of necessarity, may-be this global crisis will drive us to a more sane view of who and or what are objectively positive.

othewise, there were rites of passage before that framed the minds, they disappeared becuz of the freudian Oedipe guiltiness syndrome

Jun 6, 2009 - 7:54 pm 65. buddy larsen:

MC, Oedipus wrecks –

Jun 6, 2009 - 8:53 pm 66. twobyfour:

Alrighty, seems that we are mostly on the same page after clarifications.

MC, “twobefour” is nope, I probably have not as much chance to multiply unless I fall madly in love with thirtysomething comely female and she’d need a partial father figure.

OK, I know it was a typo, but couldn’t resist.

Hope that you can find like minded people in your country, I have a bearing on two others compatriots of yours, so it shouldn’t be impossible. Times will be interesting, so you’d surely need to have some related souls around.

The rites of passage do not have to be formal. If not available, the natural ones may be enough, meaning something other than artificial sheltered urban life. I had the good fortune as a kid to spend summers at my grandparents in a Southern Moravian village, with the exposure to all the fundamentals of the rural life. That is what is missing in lives of contemporary urban youngsters–they have no comprehension of how things work together and their interdependencies. Needless to say that this lack won’t be helpful to them in times that are come to pass. Which is of course a shame.

Oidipos complex… never really bought that freudian concept and its presumed influence on human sexuality and behavior and as the Greek tome goes, it may have had really a cosmological meaning.

Compare to invention of white guilt syndrome. Much more powerful and utterly corrosive stuff. One of the most vocal opponent of this insidious virus is David Yeagley, an amerindian writter. He says that the negative slant on the fact that whites were better warriors, as a consequence, diminishes the warrior qualities of amerindians as well and gnaws on their souls. I think he is onto something.

Jun 6, 2009 - 10:29 pm 67. Cannoneer No. 4:

Amongst lnjuns…a tribe’s greatness is figured on how mighty its enemies be. — Del Gue

“A Nation is not dead until the hearts of their women are on the ground.”

Jun 7, 2009 - 9:25 am 68. Oh, bother:

Sylvia @ 41, I wish you lived in my little community in North Texas. God, guns, handmade pesto, Belmont Club, and Anthony Watts! What fun!

Jun 8, 2009 - 12:39 pm 69. Sylvia:

68/Oh. Thank you, but I lived in Austin for a few years and had it up to *here* with scorpions. Made 6.75 pounds of pesto yesterday. Freezes well for later, but can’t mail it to Texas, sorry. Long talk today with my teen about Sonex and his ilk. Wanted to make sure she was comfortable with dispatching the foe if need be. She is, but wants to learn Shaolin soft fist, just in case. The book we’re reading aloud now is Weatherford’s Genghis Khan. Beautiful writing. Why would someone want a TV?

Jun 8, 2009 - 5:27 pm

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