103 Comments

1. Kinch:

The closing words of The Bridge of San Luis Rey read less beautifully (although certainly far better than anything I could manage) than the end of Joyce’s The Dead – but when all is said and done, Wilder is more worthy for having at least had enough courage and vestigial humanity to grasp at *something* (anything).

Death is the Elephant in the Room for all of us – most especially the Boomers.

Jun 12, 2009 - 2:48 am 2. no mo uro:

Is the ‘borrowed time’ we discuss here referring to Western civilization generally?

Jackson, and many of the generals who fought in the Civil War, are some of the more compelling figures from that era of America, or any era, for that matter. Slavery, of course, is wrong. But the authenticity of American-ness of a Jackson or Lee or Longstreet or Chamberlain or Grant cannot be denied. Their motivations and courage and spiritual fire capture much of what America and the West once was, and could be.

If more people were like this now, this country would be in much better shape: individuals lives are always on borrowed time, but the civilization would not be, were we led by people like that.

Jun 12, 2009 - 3:07 am 3. keelie:

What we are talking about is essentially the way of Zen, for want of a better word (this is not necessarily Zen Buddhism).

If anyone is interested in what apparently lies behind what Wretchard has written – which is simply life as it is – the writings of Richard Rose, David Carse, or Tony Parsons can give you an insight into what each of these three individuals realized.

Jun 12, 2009 - 3:47 am 4. Kinch:

@Keelie – I’m as much an Eugen Herrigel fan as the next person. Zen is all very well in the sense that a cultivated Late Roman might have found comfort in Neo Platonism or Stoicism or some mixture thereof as things crumbled about him… but Zen isn’t going to save us from civilisational collapse.

Jun 12, 2009 - 4:04 am 5. ADE:

Er, back to life and death:

W
We live in the middle of a story we don’t quite understand, and maybe never will.

Oh we understand it allright – we just can’t come to terms with our insignificance.

Or not, because we are NOT insignificant for future generations.

So small; so big; simultaneously. Be humble. Your grandchildren telling you that you are very old, but not wanting you to die, is the reward.

But reward for what? For your values, for your money? You know it is the former because they don’t understand money.

Stonewall
God has fixed the time for my death

Bad logic. God may have fixed a time, but you can always override him. Just strap on your suicide belt.

Can you beat God’s roll of the dice (your genetic makeup)? In the future, probably yes.

We are destined to be brains in jars, and Gods.

And that’s the end of evolution.

Anyway, this is way too serious:

Q: Why do grandchildren and grandparents get on so well?
A: They both have a common enemy.

ADE

Jun 12, 2009 - 4:46 am 6. wretchard:

I haven’t turned Buddhist or anything and was just turning ideas around in my head. But of late it has struck me that the most successful way for an individual to live was to assume that his life meant something. Similarly, civilizations are more likely to survive and flourish when their culture and myth invest activities with a purpose. What’s always fascinated me was why even people who would concede the assertion on practical grounds felt compelled to turn around and put it on the footing of make-believe. “Well of course we must act that way even though it isn’t so”. In reality we don’t know one way or the other. We are still finding out.

But a mode of thought which proves useful is very suggestive of the possibility that the idea has some correspondence with reality. And so while we at most have conjecture or “faith” in our hands, it is not an altogether unreasonable thread to follow. It is, at any rate, a proper field for human intellectual endeavor. We are made to look up at the stars, even though we quite don’t know why. The fact that we cannot now, nor perhaps ever reach them is less important than the fact that they are there. And somehow we guess, though we cannot really explain how, that they have something to do with us.

An Oxford mathematician who was giving a lecture on the existence of God that I once attended said and I paraphrase, “the fact that the world may have transcendent meaning makes inquiry much more, rather than less exciting. Why should we bother to learn anything if it were all meaningless. But if the contrary were true then rush out now and live.”

Jun 12, 2009 - 4:55 am 7. john lynch:

This reminds me of Lawrence’s attempt to fight fate in “Lawrence of Arabia.”

“It is written.”

Jun 12, 2009 - 5:07 am 8. ADE:

W
the most successful way for an individual to live was to assume that his life meant something

Wretchard, we all live this way. One of us writes the best blog on the planet, some of us blow up infidels.

So there is a step next. What is the next step?

Christ got it right. That you should love. That you should seek to convince. That freedom to commit overides submission.

Our genes are going somwhere. We do not know where, but freedom will take them to the best place, and with the best partner.

But if they are to have a chance of survival, there must be love.

Christ was right, although I am not a Christian.

ADE

Jun 12, 2009 - 5:14 am 9. Hutsul:

W:

You have touched the eternal – the ontic reality of life, i.e., my mere question of “what is it all about?”; “is there a God?’, separates me from ALL lower forms of life and further defines the love of my Maker. We can either embrace this reality -which requires a brief suspension of scientific thinking (faith) or we can debate its existence (agnosticism) or we can deny it existence (secular modernity). But, in the end, we will all have our existential dilemma – we all must face the abyss and decide. What Martin Buber calls the “narrow ridge”. Some are fortunate too have lived through this jumping off spot in their lives and come out still alive and refreshed with what got them through – God’s grace and love. What follows is a life of gratitude, humility and witness.

Jun 12, 2009 - 5:43 am 10. Joshua:

Wretchard: But of late it has struck me that the most successful way for an individual to live was to assume that his life meant something. Similarly, civilizations are more likely to survive and flourish when their culture and myth invest activities with a purpose. What’s always fascinated me was why even people who would concede the assertion on practical grounds felt compelled to turn around and put it on the footing of make-believe.

This relates to a point I made here a couple of weeks ago about the incentives created by religious beliefs.

Blaise Pascal, of course, famously observed that to worship and live by God is a better “bet” of one’s life than not to, because the potential reward for doing so is quite literally infinite (i.e. one’s eternal reward in heaven). It occurs to me that if you are truly devout, then this consideration would also trump any and every disincentive the real world may have to offer, including practical considerations, consequences, the censure of your fellow mortals (and their ability to make your life miserable), etc. How significant can any of that really be if “[your] kingdom is not of this world” to begin with? Perhaps this at least partially explains the phenomenon you’re wondering about. (Of course, as any jihadi would gladly demonstrate, this dynamic can be utilized for ill as well as good.)

On the other hand, it also occurs to me that this isn’t much of an incentive for those who don’t believe in God or an afterlife to begin with. That’s the big stumbling block. It doesn’t mean an atheist can’t “be good for goodness’ sake” as that infamous D.C. bus ad campaign last year put it, but it does take a strong incentive for doing so out of the picture.

Jun 12, 2009 - 5:48 am 11. Blindman:

I find that as a practical matter if I don’t respond,then like the water in a stream the moment to be listened to will have passed into obscurity. If,on the other hand,I think the matter over with the full measure of awareness and intelligence that the post calls for, when I do have a cogent participatory remark prepared that might extend the conversation the moment of relevance will have long passed.

It is a fairly deep matter “to assume that his life meant something”. I am not so sure as to think ,”Similarly, civilizations are more likely to survive and flourish when their culture and myth invest activities with a purpose”.

Anyhow, knowing full well the risk of sounding superficial I would still try to improve my golf swing, my guitar playing, my cooking skills, and my enjoyment of political discussions. As I try to get better at these things others seem to enjoy them more as well. Joy is infectious in a way. I don’t think I was born with the gift of joy but I have been blessed with it. It has its own virtues and leaves the cynics fast asleep. Grace goes by many names.

Jun 12, 2009 - 5:52 am 12. RWE:

In his book “Fate is the Hunter” Earnest K. Gann describes one night flying a DC-3, loaded with passengers, through the murk, and feeling nervous. There was no radar in those days, and not running into another aircraft in such conditions was based on it being a big sky and pilots staying at the appropriate altitudes. Eastbound aircraft stayed at odd altitudes and westbound ones at even.

Nervous, he flicked the landing lights on and off, which proved useless, worse than useless, since all it did was reflect the light back into their eyes. This frivolous act earned him a look of disapproval from his rather taciturn straightlaced copilot.

And then, just above them, no more than 50 feet higher, they saw the dim but unmistakable shape of another DC-3, passing them from left to right, revealed by its navigation lights and the flame from its exhausts, flying at almost exactly the wrong altitude.

If he had not flicked on the landing lights for no good reason…

Gann considered the fact that the mid-air collision would have been called pilot error. But as he thought about it, he realized that it should have been considered as “Passenger Error” too; those people would have boarded the wrong airplane on the wrong night.

Jun 12, 2009 - 5:57 am 13. ADE:

Hutsul
we all must face the abyss and decide

H, H, H, no no no.

We’ve already faced the abyss.

You only have to accept your decision. You can’t keep deferring:

when you die, that is the end of you, and we all know this.

Tragic, but true, and not bad. Look at it this way, say godbye to meglamania.

In the meantime, here’s the gorgeous Missy Higgins.

The thinking man’s crumpet.

ADE

Jun 12, 2009 - 6:02 am 14. downtowndubai:

back down on earth…

wondering why the analysis of this air disaster has only skirted on the fact that terroism is still out there for those who dare to confront radical islam (read iran).

france has signed a long term agreement with abu dhabi to design/develop a naval station (read coast guard facility) outside of the area where nuke reactors will be built.

think this sat well with the mullahs ????

especially since the uae and iran are locked in a long battle over islands stolen from the emirates by the shah.

soooo, you connect the dots…but the iranians and their hizbollah thugs took out 90 people in buenos aires in 1994 for a lot less.

enter the black moses…..crickets….

Jun 12, 2009 - 6:15 am 15. programmer:

Repost

Jun 12, 2009 - 6:24 am 16. ADE:

downtowndubai

Evidence is not in yet.

The French would desparately like us all to believe that “Fly By Wire” might actually work.

Every programmer knows that this is a great theory.

I have discovered the perfect refutation why this could not be correct. It is her@#$%^&*.

Damn, just got a forced reboot.

ADE

Jun 12, 2009 - 6:33 am 17. programmer:

@ADE,
I agree.

The single most frequently used word in the programming world is, “Ooops”.

Jun 12, 2009 - 6:42 am 18. trangbang68:

The lady’s sad fate reminds me of the words of the Jewish prophet Amos describing the Day of the Lord, the end of days:

Amos 5:18: Woe unto you that desire the day of the Lord! To what end is it for you? The day of the Lord is darkness and not light.
As if a man did flee from a lion and a bear met him or went into the house and leaned his hand on the wall and a serpent bit him.

Jun 12, 2009 - 7:04 am 19. Hutsul:

ADE:

I work with others near the Abyss, it is narrow and dark – only room for one – so I can only point from afar and show where my footing was strongest. That is all I can do – what was done for me. The next steps for the desperate one are taken alone but now laced with love and grace which briefly raises the veil and allows hope and thus life. The divine grace and love of this moment can only be given by others. “All real living is in meeting”. Anyone who has held a dying friend in their arms knows this. Anyone who was dying and held by a loving friend knows this.

Jun 12, 2009 - 7:10 am 20. Charles:

A messianic Jewish pastor I know tells a story of how one of his relatives crawled on the casket of his spouse after her death.This was not the first time he’d seen that. At christian funerals he said he didn’t ever see that happen. Why not. The Jewish spouse didn’t know where their dead mate went. The mate just went supernaturally missing. There is no eternal life after death as there is in Christianity.

Jun 12, 2009 - 7:15 am 21. Lifeofthemind:

It is time to tell my patient friends in The Club more about my furry friends fate. One month ago he had been passing a dark liquid as his bowel movement and had stopped eating for a few days, he was unable to get up and I was lifting him a few times a day to wipe him off, his weight had gone down from about 75 lbs to about 54 lbs, the vets said they thought he had internal bleeding and insisted on my bring him in. His right rear foot was swollen to twice its size and his left rear knee had a nasty open pressure sore. He growled when I touched him and had not had a bowel movement in 27 hours. However I had taken a hand truck and laid it flat and got the building porter to cut a piece of plywood to form a platform that I put a pad on so I could take him outside where he could smell fresh air and hope to relieve himself. That did get him to accept some chicken breast that I fed him by hand. I ordered the beast not to give up. He was carried into the vet on a stretcher and the doctor said the dog was suffering and should be put down. He then moved to examine the dog’s feet, without warning me first. For the first time in his life the animal bit someone. Just before that he delivered an enormous and spotless with no blood dump on the examining table. I said No to the Veterinary and took him the next day to the Neurologist who prescribed a steroid, a painkiller, antacid and Tylan powder but expressed doubt.

It is with considerable pleasure that I can relay to my friends in the club that my four footed friend has had a miraculous recovery. He is now almost running and waving his favorite squeaky toy in the air and flirting with passing girls. His weight has rebounded to 63 lbs. There is to be sure still some balance problem when he lifts a leg next to a tree. He is effectively cured and might be with us for three or four more years.

Jun 12, 2009 - 7:26 am 22. Neil Craig:

Stonewall Jackson himself tends to disprove the “perfectly safe unless a bullet has your name on it” fatalism. He was shot, while being unnecessarily ostentatious, accidentally, by his own troops. Had he kept his head down it is difficult to believe the bullet would have found him.

Jun 12, 2009 - 7:36 am 23. Ernie G:

This incident, and this thread, reminded me of the following short short story:

The Appointment in Samarra, as retold by W. Somerset Maugham

The speaker is Death

There was a merchant in Baghdad who sent his servant to market to buy provisions and in a little while the servant came back, white and trembling, and said, “Master, just now when I was in the marketplace I was jostled by a woman in the crowd and when I turned I saw it was Death that jostled me. She looked at me and made a threatening gesture, now, lend me your horse, and I will ride away from this city and avoid my fate. I will go to Samarra and there Death will not find me.”

The merchant lent him his horse, and the servant mounted it, and he dug his spurs in its flanks and as fast as the horse could gallop he went.

Then the merchant went down to the marketplace and he saw me standing in the crowd and he came to me and said, “Why did you make a threatening gesture to my servant when you saw him this morning?”

“That was not a threatening gesture,” I said, “it was only a start of surprise. I was astonished to see him in Baghdad, for I had an appointment with him tonight in Samarra.”

Jun 12, 2009 - 7:46 am 24. MEMENTO MORI | Dicta & Contradicta:

[...] goes by (por favor, a versão de Mariane Faithfull, não a de Mick Jeca) na cabeça, leio este belissímo post de Richard Fernandez sobre como o tempo que temos é apenas tempo emprestado. Leiam o trecho abaixo [...]

Jun 12, 2009 - 7:47 am 25. F:

I am struck as I read the comments to this strange tale of a woman who apparently avoided death only to be faced by it soon again, at the strength of faith and love BC readers/commenters have displayed. Would this same subject, handled by, say, Huffington Post, have generated the same? I seriously doubt it. Is this what differentiates us today? Our faith? Our humanity? Is it arrogant of me to believe so? F

Jun 12, 2009 - 7:53 am 26. ribock:

“They also serve who only stand and wait.”

Jun 12, 2009 - 8:01 am 27. Jack Okie:

RWE (12):

“Fate is the Hunter” is indeed a marvelous book, in part because so much of Gann comes through in it.

Programmer (17)

In my experience, the word used most frequently during system design is “hopefully”.

Jun 12, 2009 - 8:03 am 28. Utopia Parkway:

the most successful way for an individual to live was to assume that his life meant something. For some definition of success. Most famous, most children, most money, most something. I think you’ll find your definition of success changes over time.

I have been thinking about this idly lately for civilizations. One theory of civizations lists three kinds, guilt-societies (like those of the west), honor-shame (like the muslim societies and others), forget what the third is called but it’s mostly civilizations that believe in spirits (like tribal societies in Africa). The success of these three kinds of civilizations must be driven by its fundamental beliefs, even if those beliefs are wrong. If you wake up every morning thinking that you can make a better mousetrap you will eventually do so. If you wake up every morning thinking that things are pre-ordained you don’t have the same drive to ’succeed’.

The golf swing, mentioned above, and those other skills can serve as a koan, in the zen sense. You may think it’s an end in itself but its pursuit may provide enlightenment. Not too many golf courses in Africa or the Muslim world.

Jun 12, 2009 - 8:08 am 29. Doug:

Sounds like a must order from Netflix.
Even if Jeff Bridges is not as perfectly cast as he was as The Dude…

Remember when the Golfer’s Executive Jet Lost Cabin Pressure and flew across the Heartland carrying unconcious mortals?

Some of us would wish the bliss of instant unconciousness, some of us would ask for those last minutes to be spent in concious awareness.

Anyone right or wrong here?

What would you choose?

Jun 12, 2009 - 8:25 am 30. Grey Fox:

re: 22,
Jackson’s belief was not fatalism, but a faith in the absolute sovereignty of God – “And we know that in all things, God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to His purpose.”

Jun 12, 2009 - 8:26 am 31. Doug:

Was Terrorism Behind Air France Crash?
by Annie Jacobsen
Why would investigators tell a French newspaper that two terrorists boarded the flight only to recant the story later?

Jun 12, 2009 - 8:29 am 32. Gordon:

#7–it was the Arabs who said, “It is written.” Lawrence said (esp after rescuing an Arab from the desert), “Nothing is written.”

Jun 12, 2009 - 8:43 am 33. Hutsul:

F:

The lack of faith and love in the left is but a symptom of their underlying loss of self. They have no sense of who they are because they never received it (love) as children – for may reasons. (Remember liberal parents have radical kids) They believe everything (love) is “owed” to them – hence the sense of victimization that so much shades all of their thinking. Their Godlessness comes from hatred of what they perceive as one of the causes of their pain, usually their childhood religion or more generally God. They usually overcompensate for this problem by helping others i.e., great society, welfare, medicare, just name the “do-gooder” program and some unentitled, vicitmized liberal will be behind it.

All great leaders have both a strong sense of self (self-delineated) and strong sense of others (due consideration, empathy). There are no modern day great liberal leaders – only victims and hate mongers. Obama and his followers are the epitome of clueless victims with no sense of self, forever searching for the right “giveaway program” to make them feel better. Unfortunately for the more centered of us, it is a painful experience to behold. The only way it will end is through a collective “existential threat” (read massive terrorist attack). “Nothing focuses the mind as a hanging in the morning”.

Jun 12, 2009 - 8:50 am 34. RWE:

I have thought about Gann flicking on and off the landing lights that night. Was it that act that saved them? Did the other pilot see that burst of light and pull up as result. Gann gives no indication that anything told him to hit the lights, but he was nervous and just did.

Several years ago I was driving with my Mom and some other relatives in the car and came to a very familiar 4 way stop on a sunny clear day. There were no other cars there and I started to take off from the dead stop but heard a car coming and for some reason just decided to wait. The other car ran the stop sign.

A few years after that, one morning I waited to see a Shuttle launch before I left for work. I stood out on the porch and watched the TV through the door so I could step outside and see it directly when it lifted off. 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5… Then suddenly I had a clear premonition. I was suddenly certain that it was not going to go. …4, 3.,2 1. Shutdown! Launch abort!

Sometimes, for no obvious reason, you just know. Perhaps that lady did know about that flight, but if so why did she not know about the car trip?

Jun 12, 2009 - 9:20 am 35. JWT:

Charles Spurgeon, British Baptist preacher who tirelessly and courageously visited the sick and dying during an epidemic of cholera in London during the 1850’s said that he was immortal until his work was done.

Jun 12, 2009 - 9:43 am 36. Clioman:

From an old bumper sticker: “Eat right, stay fit, die anyway.”

Jun 12, 2009 - 10:18 am 37. Triton'sPolarTiger:

@ 25 F:

I don’t know… but I do believe it’s safe to say that from our host on down, we are a rather unique collection of souls.

I, for one, am happy to occasionally find myself among you all.

Triton

Jun 12, 2009 - 10:21 am 38. buddy larsen:

When will we die? Maybe the only…good answers are ‘will we?’ and ‘who cares?’

The tête-à-tête continued as Carlos tried to change himself and to understand Don Juan. Each time Carlos got close, don Juan would move a meta-step above him, as in this next passage. Carlos had noticed something don Juan couldn’t do and laid a verbal trap for him, by saying in effect, “There is something you can’t do anything about.”

[page 96, 97] “No. Unfortunately there is no way to make bones for a jellyfish. It was only my folly.”
“You’ve told me time and time again, don Juan, that a sorcerer cannot have follies. I’ve never thought you could have any.”
“… we must know first that our acts are useless and yet we must proceed as if we didn’t know it. That’s a sorcerer’s controlled folly.”

What is controlled folly? Carlos became obsessed with finding out. The answer was again an answer in process, not content, but Carlos noted after this next explanation, “I found his explanation delightful although I did not quite understand it.”

[page 99] “I am happy that you finally asked me about my controlled folly after so many years, and yet it wouldn’t have mattered to me in the least if you had never asked. Yet I have chosen to feel happy, as if I cared, that you asked, as if it would matter that I care. That is controlled folly!”

Jun 12, 2009 - 10:46 am 39. Richard Aubrey:

Gavin Lyall has his fictional character, Maj. Harry Maxim (”Uncle Target” and others) muse that, for a soldier, courage is a wasting asset.
What you need is a combination of fatalism and the iron determination not to die of stupid (paraphrased).
Make the bastards earn it.
For those not in combat, it means, I suppose, that our lives should have some purpose, some effect, but not waste our selves trying to be brave.
Get’er done, check six, and the rest will happen as it happens.

Jun 12, 2009 - 11:01 am 40. Tcobb:

For those of you who have not seen it, I recommend that you see the movie Secondhand Lions. This really isn’t OT. Consider the quote of the character played by Robert Duval:
Sometimes the things that may or may not be true are the things a man needs to believe in the most. That people are basically good; that honor, courage, and virtue mean everything; that power and money, money and power mean nothing; that good always triumphs over evil; and I want you to remember this, that love… true love never dies. You remember that, boy. You remember that. Doesn’t matter if it’s true or not. You see, a man should believe in those things, because those are the things worth believing in.

Jun 12, 2009 - 12:10 pm 41. Sylvia:

35/JWT. In its own way, that is reassuring.

39/RA. A commenter wrote a few months ago on Blackfive that we need to learn to be bold. There is a form of courage that acknowledges the underlying fear and, in so doing, allows a person to be bold. I believe that fatalism and self-preservation are hollow without courage. Does courage need a purpose? (not a rhetorical question)

And, frankly, are we not all in combat?

34/RWE. We cannot know of the future if we do not look. Perhaps she felt safe after escaping death over the ocean and assumed that she had plenty more time?

If we knew the date of our departure, and if we knew the mode as well, would we be able to bear the weight of the truth? For those of us living on borrowed time, bravery is essential. A purpose would be lovely, but it’s a luxury. My goal today is to be able to stand long enough to bone and marinate a leg of lamb for my husband to grill tomorrow. It was my goal yesterday, too, but I was only able to get the jars of spices out of the cupboard. I’m not in hospice, but I passed my use by date years ago and it’s been a narrow, difficult path. Knowing that time is sorely limited drives decisions in a very different direction from that of optimism and presumed longevity.

Jun 12, 2009 - 12:41 pm 42. Charles:

I have heard it said that the book of Job in the OT is not likely an old Hebrew tale but rather something from another people in that neck of the desert. Might not be true.

Job’s wife’s line is world famous. “Why don’t you curse God and die.”

I have mused lately about that. Why even if she had sung “Go fight win. Bring that victory in.” –like a good American cheerleader– she would not have done Job a lick of good. She would have reflected well on the state of her her own soul–but that’s about it.

I could be wrong about that. I don’t think that a Mr can have a whole lot more courage than his Mrs. But then I think that courage is made up of faith hope and love. And a couple brings out different sides of these.

There is something that I do believe to be true. When a man shows his love for his God in public worship–this interprets into the female mind as supernatural courage. And that gives her supernatural courage–which she then is free to reflect back on her mate. (and here I define supernatural as something that doesn’t come from the chairs or the pew or the rocks or the trees but rather someplace unseen invisible.)

Jun 12, 2009 - 1:02 pm 43. Susan Ochoa:

I don’t know much, but I’m convinced there is a spiritual world, or a supernatural world, however you care to phrase it. I woke one morning in a cold sweat, terrified from my nightmare of a massive wall of ocean bearing down on me and my loved ones. There was no place to hide. It took a couple of hours of domestic tranquility, making breakfast, reading the newspaper, etc., for my panic to subside. When I went to my computer to read the international news, the tsunami that killed nearly 200k people in the Pacific was the big story. I am still shaken to this day by my dream. How to live with the knowledge that I know nothing? I love.

Jun 12, 2009 - 1:39 pm 44. Lucy:

Rebbe Schneerson taught that at any moment even our most seemingly insignificant act can change the world.

Jun 12, 2009 - 1:45 pm 45. Chiral:

Yet another restatement of the idea that faith’s actual reality can’t be determined while we are living, so we may as well have faith just in case.

Such reality jibes nicely with “the Matrix” theory, which loosely states that our universe is indistinguishable from a giant simulator. Even if some God creates all, then that creation itself is a kind of a simulator.

And while we obsess over philosophy, life passes us by while others are out living it. I say down with intellectuals and other neurotic fools who worry too much.

Jun 12, 2009 - 2:00 pm 46. Tcobb:

Susan Ochoa writes:
How to live with the knowledge that I know nothing? I love.
For however my worthless opinion can be valued, to know love and to give love is the purpose of life. Without that little else matters.

Jun 12, 2009 - 2:05 pm 47. wretchard:

The problem with being a witness to a genuine miracle is that the ‘anthropic principle’ still applies. The only people alive to report a miracle are those who were miraculously saved. Those who perished from the probable do not enter the record as live witnesses. That circumstance is bothersome in several ways, and in one way can be cited to “disprove” miracles. But the other implication is even more disturbing largely in the context of quantum suicide or immortality. The basic idea behind it is that one interpretation of the quantum “many worlds” scenario is that there is some space in which miracles happen and that it is part of our timeline.

In quantum mechanics, quantum suicide was a thought experiment. It was independently published in 1987 by Hans Moravec and in 1988 by Bruno Marchal, and further developed by Max Tegmark in 1998.[1] It attempts to distinguish between the Copenhagen interpretation of quantum mechanics and the Everett many-worlds interpretation by means of a variation of the Schrödinger’s cat thought experiment. The experiment involves looking at the Schrödinger’s cat experiment from the point of view of the cat.

Quantum immortality is a metaphysical speculation derived from the quantum suicide thought experiment. It states that the many-worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics implies that conscious beings are immortal. Hugh Everett is reported to have believed in quantum immortality, although he never published on either quantum suicide or quantum immortality. …

Consider a man who puts a gun to his head and pulls the trigger with a 50-50 of dying. A strange possibility occurs from the point of view of Schrodinger’s cat:

With each run of the experiment there is a 50-50 chance that the gun will be triggered and the experimenter will die. According to the Copenhagen interpretation, the gun will (in all likelihood) eventually be triggered and the experimenter will die. If the many-worlds interpretation is correct then at each run of the experiment, the experimenter will be split into one world in which he survives and another world in which he dies. After many runs of the experiment, there will be many worlds. In the worlds where the experimenter dies, he will cease to be a conscious entity.

However, from the point of view of the non-dead copies of the experimenter, the experiment will continue running without his ceasing to exist, because at each branch, he will only be able to observe the result in the world in which he survives, and if many-worlds is correct, the surviving copies of the experimenter will notice that he never seems to die, therefore “proving” himself to be invulnerable to the gun mechanism in question, at least from his own point of view provided the gun remains unheard to outside observers and the experimenters box remains sealed to prevent quantum measurement and the collapse of the wave function.

Another example is where an experimenter detonates a nuclear bomb beside himself. In almost all parallel universes, the nuclear explosion will vaporize the experimenter. However, there should be a small set of alternative universes in which the experimenter somehow survives (i.e. the set of universes which support a “miraculous” survival scenario, or some extremely unlikely, but technically possible event occurs saving the experimenter).

It sounds pretty nonsensical from a ‘common sense’ point of view, and I won’t offer an opinion on it. But miracles are trouble things in many ways. I will only remark that fairly serious people have taken the seriously and that if people will believe in worker’s paradises, Gaia and Thetans, then you could do worse, intellectually.

Jun 12, 2009 - 2:06 pm 48. Alexis:

Perhaps “quantum suicide” could explain how socialism could theoretically create a worker’s paradise. Even if every attempt at socialism so far has turned into a nightmare, one could argue that socialism could work “this time” if all of the quantum variables line up correctly.

Those were the days my friend
We thought they’d never end
We’d sing and dance forever and a day
We’d live the life we choose
We’d fight and never lose
For we were young and sure to have our way.

The basic attitude of jihadists, compulsive gamblers, and the heroes of “Dumb and Dumber” (”There’s a CHANCE!”) is to assume that defeat only happens to other people and unearned victory will naturally come to one’s self.

Hope can be a terrible curse.

Jun 12, 2009 - 2:34 pm 49. Presbypoet:

To understand the universe, first you must understand it is designed for free will. As I contemplate quantum mechanics that underlie the known universe, I am struck how the design of the universe allows us to make real significant decisions. We matter. There is at least one thing we can do that God cannot. That simple thing is to be grateful. To live a grateful life of joy secure knowing God loves us.

Tis a strange God who demands we let Him in voluntarily. He could take by force, but asks in still small voice. He lets us go, so we can come to him. I speak this as a full Calvinist, sure God is in complete control, so my salvation is not based on anything I do, yet He calls me to be a disciple. A disciple committed to live fearlessly, joyfully obedient. Living in a world where everything I/we do is of cosmic significance. Where he lets me go so I can fail.

This is the great paradox. God is fully in control, I/we but insignificant speck of cosmic dust. Yet everything I/we do is of cosmic significance. Every word we write, every action carries divine importance.

A question for the club. What does it mean to be a disciple of Christ, a follower of the Way?

Jun 12, 2009 - 3:14 pm 50. buddy larsen:

I wish i could answer that, Presbypoet, but every thought goes off on a diminishing path. All i can say at the moment is that Sylvia’s post @ 41 moved me very much –so excellent of her in her time of trial to reach out to others and try to help them try to really see the nature of time.

Jun 12, 2009 - 3:26 pm 51. mac:

TCobb@40: Bravo!

Susan Ochoa@43: That same sensation of “knowing” without actual information has happened to many people. I think you’re right in your belief there is another sort of existence happening around us that we cannot see.

Sylvia@41: You and TCobb are both talking about the same things. Hemingway once described courage as “grace under pressure.” We all live under the pressure of knowing we will one day die. Many of us consciously ignore that pressure because it is almost impossible to simultaneously contemplate that reality and still do anything useful in this world.

Those who actually know when the last tick of the clock is going to come and still battle on to the very last second, living their lives to the fullest, are the true heroes in this world.

I don’t remember much else from this movie but this line stuck with me. In Trevanian’s “The Eiger Sanction,” four very experienced climbers were trapped up on the mountain facing an all but impossible descent with no other choice but death. They had managed to survive to that point only by incredible technical knowledge and exceptional skill, and now even those weapons looked to be insufficient.

When the protagonist (Clint Eastwood) told one of the two remaining climbers that they would survive, he replied, “No, I don’t think so. But we shall continue with style.”

That attitude is absolutely critical when facing this life. We’re all going to die; it’s how you live that counts, particularly when you know the end is near. Men and women who manage to face that end with courage and equanimity have my utmost respect.

Jun 12, 2009 - 4:52 pm 52. GerryP:

Life of the Mind, I am, and we are, so very happy that your furry friend is still with you. That’s amazing, and wonderful. Thanks for letting us know. I take it that our prayers now need to turn to a job for you?

Jun 12, 2009 - 5:02 pm 53. PA Cat:

“So teach us to number our days that we may get a heart of wisdom.”– Psalm 90:12

Jun 12, 2009 - 5:09 pm 54. winslow:

If time is a dimension then it exists at both ends. So, although we may not yet have experienced the future with our limited sensation of the dimension time, yet it still exists. Rather than being dismayed that my end is “written,” I relish that in my ignorance I am free to choose to live into it.

Jun 12, 2009 - 5:20 pm 55. sgi:

I remember the first time that I read, really comprehended, these words by Pascal:

All our dignity consists, then, in thought. By it we must elevate ourselves, and not by space and time which we cannot fill. Let us endeavor, then, to think well; this is the principle of morality.

This describes my feelings about Wretchard and the club, a place where people endeavor to think well, and more often than not, do.

Lifeofthemind, I have been wondering about your furry friend. Glad to hear he is recovered but what was the problem?

Jun 12, 2009 - 5:38 pm 56. RWE:

Susan #43:

I had one dream like that over 25 years ago. I dreamt I was on an airliner, a wide body model of some kind, seated in the center row. It was at night. Suddenly the No.4 engine went out with a burst of flame and the airplane stalled and entered what clearly was a spin. I was sitting there as we went down saying “Get the nose down! Get some airspeed! Then get us out of the spin!”

Odd dream, like no other.

Then a week or so later a guy I worked with said “Hey, did you hear about that 747? They lost an engine, stalled and went into a spin.”

LifeoftheMind: Glad to hear your canine companion is doing well. Back 9 years ago my Lab was looking poorly. She had a limp, and a lump on her bottom turned out to be cancer. But she was operated on twice and I started walking her every day, the walks getting longer and longer, and giving her glucosemine. She lived another 6 years, 6 great years, and passed away in my arms at just over 15 years of age.

Jun 12, 2009 - 5:42 pm 57. buddy larsen:

No man who loves dogs can be all bad –said either Shakespeare or Sir Winston Churchill. Or possibly someone else.

*******
What comforts me most about the prospect of dying, is that so many have already done it, and everyone else will do it, so why on earth would i expect to be any different? This kicks me out of the mood and into something amove.

Jun 12, 2009 - 5:54 pm 58. keelie:

#4 – Kinch (Sorry for the time lapse…)

You’re absolutely right; Zen will not save us from civilisational collapse.

I wasn’t suggesting that at all; just suggesting that some form of answer – not necessarily a palatable answer – may be found in the writings I suggested.

Jun 12, 2009 - 6:00 pm 59. keelie:

Wretchard (#47)

**** In the worlds where the experimenter dies, he will cease to be a conscious entity.****

Perhaps he never really was a “conscious entity”.

Jun 12, 2009 - 6:04 pm 60. Stan Smith:

Sylvia @41, thanks for that.

I am reminded of the colliers in the engine room of the Titanic, still shoveling coal as the watertight doors close, knowing that all they can do is keep the boilers going until they die…and yet still shoveling.

Jun 12, 2009 - 6:05 pm 61. Blindman:

#41 Sylvia

My wife is wonderful woman. she thought about a Havdalah service we had at home when she was very ill. Thankfully she has recovered but at the time that was not the clear outcome. Anyhow I send along this thought our family shared.

“On completion of the Shabbat, a special braided Havdalah candle with more than one wick is lit, and a prayer is recited, and it is customary to gaze at one’s fingernails reflecting the light of the candle. Spices, often stored in a decorative spice container, are handed around so that everyone can smell the fragrance. In the Sephardi community, branches of aromatic plants are used for this purpose.

Havdalah is intended to require a person to use all five senses. Taste the wine, smell the spices, see the flame of the candle and feel its heat, and hear the blessings.”-(Wikipedia sourced)

Courage and bravery are habits I suppose, so maybe are beliefs. Habits are of their own purpose and need no justification. It was the thought of you not being able to reach the spices that sounded a chord on this ark. Shalom.

Jun 12, 2009 - 6:15 pm 62. programmer:

Tcobb recommends this. I concur. You need to see the whole movie.

The ending.

Jun 12, 2009 - 6:25 pm 63. bogie wheel:

Because I know that *all* of you will be just as happy as I am to know:

Penguins 2, Detroit 0 in 2nd!!!!

Jun 12, 2009 - 6:25 pm 64. bogie wheel:

when you die, that is the end of you, and we all know this.

Who is this “we,” kemosabe??

Without sloshing around in Kant for the next 10 hours … I don’t know one way or the other, but I have what I consider excellent reasons to believe other than your assertion. Among them, the concept of justice. Which isn’t, in case anyone hadn’t noticed, perfectly fulfilled in this world.

Jun 12, 2009 - 6:47 pm 65. Eggplant:

off-topic:

Based on what they’re saying at the Market Ticker, the Plunge Protection Team (PPT) is real and not just tin foil hat nonsense. Apparently the recent market rally was due to market manipulation by the Fed using newly printed green backs. The consequence of this has been ridiculous price-to-earnings ratios, i.e. stocks going up due to manipulation that were producing almost no earnings, refer to:

http://www.investors.com/forums/t/1287979.aspx

Early on, people were concerned that the Fed was going to confiscate their 401-K money to cover the deficit and bail out the banks. The Fed is doing this indirectly by drawing everyone into hell’s own sucker’s rally.

Jun 12, 2009 - 7:17 pm 66. sgi:

Many years ago, my ex-husband and I lived in a house on Brookside Road in Nova Scotia.

Years later, in British Columbia in 1985, my sister and father were buried in a graveyard on the edge of a creek. The section of the graveyard is called Brookside.

And years after that, I bought a home in Port Moody, a small city outside of Vancouver BC, on a street called Brookside Drive.

It was only recently when I was going through old letters I had saved that I came across an envelope addressed to me on Brookside Road in Nova Scotia. I had previously made the connection between my home and the graveyard, which was consoling to me. But when I realized there was yet another link, I was well, more than a little spooked.

I tell myself it’s just a coincidence too…

Jun 12, 2009 - 7:55 pm 67. Lifeofthemind:

GerryP,
I for one never doubt the efficacy of prayer.
The best line on a job I see so far is selling fancy bed sheets at a famous but to be undisclosed location for one third the in itself ludicrous income I was drawing a year and change ago. That is to say it will probably be for less than Unemployment but I can’t turn it down. Holders of GEDs in my small home town are pulling in more and my probable boss will be about half my age. My intentions are to be the soul of enthusiasm.

sgi,
Thank you. Since I declined to spend $5,000 in the interest of science we may never know but the best guess is a bad lumbar disc.

RWE,
They are good souls. It would I suppose be inappropriate to remember after your story what Groucho as Rufus T Firefly said to Margaret Dumont as Mrs Teasdale after she told him that her husband had died in her arms?

To drag things back to the level of theory for The Club I have been considering where the first Veterinary went wrong. I know that he is a good man and a good doctor. Veterinarians are charged primarily with easing suffering. In this they differ from physicians who treat human beings for whom the relief of suffering is a secondary concern. The ending of a life is therefor an inextricable part of the Veterinarians craft and many of us would no doubt find it harder to put down a dog than a man. The dog being innocent and the man deserving and all else being equal. The doctor concerned said to me that he felt that because the animal was bright alert and responsive, to use their jargon B.A.R., his inability to stand and play or do other normal functions increased his need to be destroyed. So why did I persist and deny the impulse that was put to me as the more humane path?

The Veterinarian erred in two ways I felt. First he arrogated until himself a standard that denied the broader range of experience that thousands of animals do live with successfully every day. You see animals with mobility problems and wheeled carts that live joyful lives for several years. While this is a difficult and complicated process it should not be dismissed a priori. The costs and procedures need to be properly evaluated in each case. In some cases it will prove to be at best a dragging out of the end that only does inflict suffering, that may be true for many but not all larger breeds.

Second and more importantly here the Veterinarian failed to take into account new information. He reached his initial expectation based on the report that the dog could not walk and had possible internal bleeding. When the animal delivered a large pile of evidence that he was not bleeding and did with support walk a few steps he did not modify or even take a moment to reconsider his position. That is why I refused him. To my mind the beast’s hostile reaction to being touched was a good sign, indicating that he had not given up. If he had just lain there passively and the Vet had paused and gone “Hmm that is interesting but on balance I must urge you to this course” then I might well have yielded to professional authority.

Now of course the doctor looks uneasy when I go to his office for supplies. I do not intend to change practitioners. For years now it has been his partners that treated my friend and I like the office. His problem is that even though I do not intend to act against him he can not forgive me for being correct. It is much easier to forgive someone else for being wrong.

Jun 12, 2009 - 8:03 pm 68. Sylvia:

61/Blindman. I am glad your wife pulled through. When a body is dying it is too easy to let go of the senses — an excellent tradition like that could spark the pivot to re-open. Hmmm.

Courage and bravery become habitual. One adapts. The lamb is marinating in the frig. Two pounds done up in a tandoori marinade and two pounds with fresh rosemary, garlic, and red wine. Tomorrow I will put away the spices.

50/buddy. It isn’t a time of trial, sir, but my life, a gift. There are good days and bad, but even the tough days are an unexpected blessing. Hearing my daughter’s laughter, listening to a Handel aria with my husband, watching the birds on the fence. Life is good.

Jun 12, 2009 - 8:21 pm 69. Oneeye:

LOTM #21

When you first posted regarding your dog’s illness my heart went out to you as I had just gone through a similar situation.

I’m glad to hear that yours has a happier conclusion.

I’ve had seven great dogs over the last 36+ years. Every one of them special individuals. It never gets easier when their time is up but I wouldn’t think of giving up the years of love to avoid the great pain at the end.

Jun 12, 2009 - 8:37 pm 70. Tcobb:

Lifeofthemind:
Don’t give up on your dog until there is no other choice. The last dog I had was named Salmonella. Why was she named that? I owned her parents. For some reason she “bonded” to me at the puppy stage. The barriers put up to keep the puppies from invading the house proper failed with her. She would manage to surmount them and climb up into bed with me. I awoke one morning and she was sleeping on my pillow with her little puppy feet in my mouth. I was not pleased. I held her up in the air and declared that she was a disease. I ran through my base of known diseases for a feminine sounding disease, and Salmonella it was. She was destined to go elsewhere, where I assumed she would get a real name, but when it came time to deliver her to her new home I reneged on the contract.

She was my baby. She was my child. When she was about ten years old she was sick and I took her to the vet. She had tumors in her liver. Cancer. There was no treatment. The vet said she had about six weeks to live. She had no appetite. To fix this I tried cooking various things for her–sometimes she would eat them and sometimes she would not. And I started taking her to the park every day, something she had always loved.

And at some point, things turned around. She had begun to look like an animal dying of starvation. She began to eat again. When I took her to the vet the following year for rabies vaccination the vet read the folder and said “is this the same dog?” When I told her it was she said “I don’t know what you’ve been doing to her–but keep on doing it.”

She lived for three more years, and they were good years, right up until the end.

Jun 12, 2009 - 9:14 pm 71. GerryP:

Life Of The Mind,

What great news about the possible job! Hope it works out and soon. Everyone used to be counseled to have both “a trade and a profession.” Sounds like you just might do that.

Then if something opens up in your profession, you’d have the opportunity to work 2 jobs. A great way to save money for the hard times ahead.

Don’t forget the other old advice either, about “Never turn down a promotion.” They often don’t offer another promotion later if you do. Then your bosses will get successively younger and more ignorant.

You’ll be happier working than on unemployment, for sure, even if it pays somewhat less. Working does wonders for people, don’t you think? You’ll be in my prayers.

Jun 12, 2009 - 9:40 pm 72. Charles:

My dad died about 5 years ago now. The last 15 years of his life saw one heart by pass operation after another. He finally died because he was too frail for another operation. shesh those operations looked tougher to me than anything he endured in WWII. The family witnessed what we experienced as miracles as the old man came back from death more than once. What is a miracle? Jesus raised Lazarus from the dead. That was a miracle too. But Lazarus like my dad did die only later not sooner. So what is a miracle. A miracle is a sign of the end.

Its best to respond to a miracle with the fear of God.

There but by God’s grace go I.

The Lord knows, I pray that when I get to be my dad’s age — heart operations will be much less intrusive.

Jun 12, 2009 - 9:59 pm 73. Walt:

Events like this raise the question of fate, coincidence, the hand of God, however God is defined. I confess I have not the answer, though I don’t believe our fate is written, chiseled in everlasting stone. Nonetheless, there are times I think the ancients had it right, that there are gods living among us, gods who know our fates, gods who shape our lives. In Germanic legend the mistresses of human destiny were the Norns, three spinners; Urd, who knew the past; Verthandi, who knew the present; and Skuld, who knew the future. It is they, the Norns, who shape the destiny of men. And who shall say they do not?

Here is the babe, the women said
In silence as they crept
Into the house and to the bed
Where little Barack slept
But hours old, Verthandi sighed
What know of him, dear Urd?
The past is blank, though I have tried
Of him there is no word
No past? said Skuld, how can that be?
Perhaps, dear Urd, you’ve missed
The lad’s now hidden history
For surely there’s a list
There is no list, no proof of birth
His presence unremarked
The lad has simply come to earth
We know not where embarked
But ‘tis the future of the lad
With which we must engage
His future now, if good or bad
Dear Skuld, please fill the page
I see him smiling ear to ear
And promising much change
I see him bringing hope and fear
While striding ‘oer the range
I see a country bending low
Accepting every whim
I see a people crying so
And all because of him
I see that freedom’s lost its way
And men do quake in fright
In hearing what this lad doth say
So say the fates tonight
Is there no hope, can naught be done?
It’s written now in stone?
Ah no, said Skuld, they’re saved from One
By Ronald Reagan’s clone

The women looked at weary Skuld

Jun 12, 2009 - 10:19 pm 74. buddy larsen:

A myth that has destiny in the hands of spinners is a very useful myth indeed. My mom used to say, if you like someone they can do no wrong, if you don’t, they can do no right.

Jun 12, 2009 - 10:41 pm 75. trangbang68:

Alexis, nice Mary Hopkin reference. That song which played on Armed Forces Radio mocked our mortality in war. It is still a strange and haunting song.

Jun 12, 2009 - 10:59 pm 76. Walt:

Buddy, I am intrigued by Norse mythology. If you look at it, it explains things about as well as any other belief system. Free will, you takes your choice of beliefs. All I know is there are times, late at night, in the blackness, I can feel the cold northern forests, smell them, almost touch them, and I know there’s something or someone there. Fanciful? I suppose. But when all is still, and you close your eyes….

Walt Erickson

Jun 12, 2009 - 11:06 pm 77. buddy larsen:

But when all is still, and you close your eyes… you see the backs of sprinting Irish monks….

Yuk yuk hope you forgive rude jape from fellow scandahoovian who couldn’t resist. But seriously, how wildly romantic a life could there be for a tenth century youngun to go to the sea?

Jun 12, 2009 - 11:35 pm 78. Karen Yvonne:

LOTM: I’m very glad you decided to update us, as I remember your prior post and how nice it was to see someone who was unafraid to ask for prayers. And I always remember when someone expresses a special fondness for their canine companion.

“A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast.” Proverbs 12:10.

I too was one of those who prayed for your well-being and that of your dear pet. You’re right not to doubt the efficacy of prayer. I’ve seen its results too many times to doubt, but even when we don’t receive what we’re hoping for, no honest prayer is ever in vain. I can’t prove that, but somehow I think that’s the way it’s supposed to be. The unproveable nature of it seems to be a test of free will. The decision is ours to make.

*********************************************
My own “It Wasn’t My Time” experience has vividly stayed with me since it happened many years ago. I was driving home by myself, in the dark, stopped at a traffic light in the left-turn lane. As soon as I got the green arrow, instantly came the command: DON’T GO. Impossible to ignore. It wasn’t at all alarming, just a message of certainty, a “knowing” that was communicated to me – I know it didn’t come from within ME. I did not take my foot off the brake, but sat and waited. After a couple of seconds, I worried a little about being honked at so I glanced in the rearview mirror. Oh good, nobody was behind me. Then a car coming from the opposite direction – which I couldn’t have seen because the intersecting street ran at a diagonal – ran the red light through the intersection at a very high rate of speed. Had I gone as soon as the light turned green, there would surely have been one big collision. The road was an in-city highway and the intersection itself was very large. After the speeding red-light-runner passed on through, my light was still green so I proceeded on my way – in a state of amazement. I wasn’t religious back in those days but I remember thinking, obviously it wasn’t my time to leave this world.

I’m sure many people can recount similar experiences where they get a little reminder: the Unseen is here.

And what one decides to believe about it is of no small consequence.

Jun 12, 2009 - 11:53 pm 79. Walt:

Buddy — My grandfather went to sea, and when he shipped his family over to Ellis Island he jumped ship in Philly. I asked him once how could he leave such a beautiful place, and he said, “You can’t eat scenery.” Of course that was before North Sea oil and the beneficent welfare state that is now Norway. Had he been able to eat scenery I never would have been born, and then you’d have to write the poems for BC.

Jun 12, 2009 - 11:54 pm 80. buddy larsen:

walt, a film for you if you get a chance to see it. wretchard did a great post on it –the post and the comments both –sometime back.

I too descend from a sailor –a Dane or Norwegian, the story seems to vary (a family member seems to started the stove one day with his few papers) –he jumped ship in Houston and went to rice farming in the flats to the west –Eagle Lake, TX.

Jun 13, 2009 - 12:23 am 81. Walt:

Buddy — The 13th Warrior. On your recommendation I’m going to order it right now. It’s 3:30am here in Philly burbs, but I guess they’re still up over there at Amazon. More tomorrow. I just go from bed to verse.

Thanks, Walt

Jun 13, 2009 - 12:31 am 82. Smoking Frog:

The woman herself probably caused the accident; the article says that her car veered across the road. Maybe she was upset thinking about the Air France crash, and this made her veer. Besides, we (here) don’t know the probability that a person who misses a flight that crashes dies soon afterwards; for all we know, it may be non-tiny, for reasons like the one I just offered.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m sympathetic to supernatural explanations of strange events. I’ve experienced at least two that I recall off the top of my head, and I know of others that have happened to people I know. But I think the world may be strange in non-supernatural ways, even if the supernatural exists. Highly improbable but apparently meaningful events may occur for reasons which we are unable to discover, or at any rate which we have not discovered, because we are not smart enough and/or do not have enough information and/or *do not try*.

Jun 13, 2009 - 12:34 am 83. RAH:

This case made me think of a recent movie, that was popular with teenagers about a group of people that did not die on a plane due to one person saying if they went they would all die and then death being cheated hunted them down and they died in bizarre ways.

Jun 13, 2009 - 4:48 am 84. Doug:

Maybe Carridine was on that flight?

Jun 13, 2009 - 6:16 am 85. Doug:

“There is to be sure still some balance problem when he lifts a leg next to a tree”
-
Hell, Buddy has that problem.
No Biggie, right Bud?
—
Karen Yvonne,
Thanks for the cite.
Few things impress me as much as man’s relationship with domestic animals.
Seems almost a minor miracle that we can cohabitate and observe and interact with one another.
—
We were almost sure we’d lost our little cat when she lost most of her weight, a bunch of her hair, and her appetite for eating and enjoying life.
Vet said it was either intestinal cancer, (said to be quite common in cats) or an infection.
Antibiotic seemed to prove that it was an infection, as she is back to her pot-bellied decadent ways.
Sleeps more than any cat we’ve had, but she deserves it, having served hard times for years on the mean streets.

Jun 13, 2009 - 6:38 am 86. programmer:

Has anyone besides me ever considered that Belmont Club exists in n-space? There are the two dimensions of the written word. There is the 3rd dimension added by links to movie and media clips. And there is the 4th dimension of time added by the historians among us. And each poster, calling on the inner spaces of education, experience, faith, etc. intersect with the Belmont Club in infinitely interesting ways. Wretchard, the quantum mechanic of N-space.

Jun 13, 2009 - 7:40 am 87. buddy larsen:

right, doug –it’s the tree who has the problem

Jun 13, 2009 - 8:37 am 88. GerryP:

Gee Programmer. That’s really good!

Jun 13, 2009 - 8:50 am 89. buddy larsen:

re n-space, izzat where the wormholes are? i ask, because, alluding to commenters’ inner spaces, these large clouds need be moved across space in brief glyph bursts through tiny time apertures that compress them into transmissions metered by receivers as ‘the time alloted to read a comment’. If successful, the metered item then decompresses ‘on the other side’ and re-assumes some version –hopefully a copy –of the original field dimension.

Jun 13, 2009 - 9:02 am 90. Morenuancedthanyou:

RAH, that’s “Final Destination”.
SGI, thank you for that Pascal quote. That’s going up on my wall.

Jun 13, 2009 - 10:18 am 91. programmer:

buddy,

Your explication of events in n-space are awe inspiring, as usual.

Jun 13, 2009 - 11:18 am 92. buddy larsen:

heh –programmer, as in “awe, bullsh*t” –?

Jun 13, 2009 - 12:11 pm 93. fonman:

RWE @34: My uncle Seamus bounced back and forth between the US and Ireland for most of his life. When my brother Kevin was about 10, Seamus told him what it was like driving in the Irish countryside, on lanes barely wider than a car, occluded on both sides by “ditches”, acutally tall berms covered with thick vegetation. Seamus confided that while driving at night and approaching an intersection, most drivers would momentarily turn off their headlights, the better to see the headlights of an intersecting vehicle. Kevin asked “What if the other guy turns his lights off at the same time?”. Uncle Seamus’ reply was “That’s why we go to Mass every Sunday.”

Jun 13, 2009 - 1:52 pm 94. DougRek:

Standing on the roof, behind the parapet, of my villa in Saigon during the Tet offensive in 1968, the bullets made a zinging sound. Not many, but a few every hour, throughout the afternoon. The next day I made it from the city to Tan Son Nhut Air Base, where the bullets changed to 122 millimeter rockets — one hitting a metal conex shipping container about 50 feet away from the morning chow hall. I was in line to eat. When the rockets began flying, I had the option of heading for the conex, which was protected by layers of sand bags, or just standing in line on that warm, moon-lit night. I stayed in line. The rocket hit an unprotected section of the conex and detonated inside it. During the course of my military career, I came under fire in many venues — no holes so far — and that is not due to anything I have done or not done. He has kept me here for whatever purposes . . . .

Jun 13, 2009 - 2:59 pm 95. Doug:

More Merced than Nuanced:
-
“Oh, these vast, calm, measureless mountain days, inciting at once to work and rest! Days in whose light everything seems equally divine, opening a thousand windows to show us God. Nevermore, however weary, should one faint by the way who gains the blessings of one mountain day; whatever his fate, long life, short life, stormy or calm,
is rich forever.”
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John Muir

Jun 13, 2009 - 3:35 pm 96. Cowboy:

I just happened to be at Antietam battlefield today. Stonewall Jackson was there, and his units absorbed the initial shocks of what would become the bloodiest battle of American History. 21,000 Americans perished on that gently rolling farmland. The battle featured “canister” artillery prominently, a kind of anti-personnel fragmentation round that exploded in the air and shot little metal balls through the closely held infantry formations of the day. Antietam’s cannon barrages, featuring 500 batteries combined from the two sides, got it called an “Artillery of Hell” as the casualties mounted on “Bloody Lane”.

I tried to picture myself there, and couldn’t see how you wouldn’t come to a conclusion like Stonewall Jackson’s. This kind of cannon fodder warfare was utter madness. You had to assume you were already dead when it got started, I think, and be in it to see how long you could keep it going.

Jun 13, 2009 - 5:29 pm 97. sf:

You guys–and gals–are always a pleasure, and sometimes absolutely amazing.

Jun 13, 2009 - 9:03 pm 98. Barry 0351:

Ya gets it when ya gets it and not before, ya won’t hear it coming and when it’s all over ya won’t care.
“What me worry?”

Jun 14, 2009 - 5:44 am 99. Charles:

49. Presbypoet:
A question for the club. What does it mean to be a disciple of Christ, a follower of the Way?

John 14:5-7
5Thomas said to him, “Lord, we don’t know where you are going, so how can we know the way?”

6Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7If you really knew me, you would know[a] my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”

Jun 14, 2009 - 6:36 pm 100. buddy larsen:

haw –good un –worry is the interest we pay on knowledge –or something like that somebody said –

Jun 14, 2009 - 6:47 pm 101. Charles:

Up until 3-4 years before my dad died, I worried a lot about my dad’s driving. He would drive around the beltway of washington dc and down georgia avenue to walter reed or he would drive to ft meyer in arlington. Or he would drive up 270 to pennsylvania. He drove from side to side in the lane. From time to time he’d get into a fender bender. I worried he’d wind up as jelly in pile of twisted metal–and take my mother with him. But I couldn’t stop the guy from driving.

One day I realized that my worries weren’t doing me any good. What I also realized was that I couldn’t just will the worries away.

Then it occured to me a strategy for handling worry.

Its a kind of jujitsu. What you do is use the energy of worry for prayer. That is– in worry you address your thoughts to yourself. With prayer — you change the address of your thoughts from yourself to God. So every time I caught myself worrying– I would convert my worries into prayer. I prayed a lot.

The old man died in bed of old age and a busted ticker.

I have since learned to convert a lot of the trash my mind puts out into prayer. What ever the trash is about — you pray the other way. You use the mind’s trash as a springboard for prayer.

That makes for effective prayer.

Thank You Lord.

Jun 14, 2009 - 8:35 pm 102. Karen Yvonne:

Charles -

You’re observing 1Peter 5:7: Cast all your care upon him; for he careth for you.

The Biblical account of King Hezekiah –

“In those days Hezekiah became ill and was at the point of death. The prophet Isaiah son of Amoz went to him and said, ‘This is what the Lord says: Put your house in order, because you are going to die; you will not recover.’

“Hezekiah turned his face to the wall and prayed to the Lord, ‘Remember, O Lord, how I have walked before you faithfully and with wholehearted devotion and have done what is good in your eyes.’ And Hezekiah wept bitterly.

“Before Isaiah had left the middle court, the word of the Lord came to him: ‘Go back and tell Hezekiah, the leader of my people, ‘This is what the Lord, the God of your father David, says: I have heard your prayer and seen your tears; I will heal you. On the third day from now you will go up to the temple of the Lord. I will add fifteen years to your life.” 2Kings 20:1-6

- would seem to suggest that we do have an appointed time to die, and yet, at the same time, nothing is written in stone.

Prayer can change things.

Jun 15, 2009 - 1:40 am 103. Charles:

Here’s a pretty good prayer song

Jun 15, 2009 - 8:27 am

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