27 Comments

1. vanderleun:

“Stasis” and Rigor… both post mortum effects.

Jun 14, 2009 - 12:36 am 2. whiskey:

Or the simpler explanation: Obama as a Muslim prefers Ahmadinejad.

Jun 14, 2009 - 1:10 am 3. Wadeusaf:

Its the “Picard Maneuver”, appearing to take two positions at the same time. And according to the Star Trek Wiki

http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Picard_Maneuver

The only known defense is to check for gaseous displacement.

About sums it up, wouldn’t you say?

Jun 14, 2009 - 4:41 am 4. ADE:

whiskey @ 2

Or the Chicago machine modus operandi kicks in: pretend you are their friend, and then pick a day, say St Valentine’s day, just to pick one at random, to reveal your friendship.

Maybe The Chosen One is not so stupid. He makes nice; adoring fans adore; fans offer sacrifice (Israel – Golden Calves are overpriced at the moment). Get smackback. Now the adorers have had their Messiah sullied. Have those Persians just repudiated God’s outstretched hand?

Why, that would justify a jihad! Behead those who insult Obama! And that’s just the Liberals.

I’d put my money on a Chicago tyke before I’d put it on a Mullah.

This whole thing has a way to roll yet.

ADE

Jun 14, 2009 - 5:32 am 5. lc:

I really enjoyed the next generation Star Trek when I first saw it. I have been watching some episodes recently and I am struck by how carefully politically correct the show was. Picard is the proto-metrosexual. In spite of his somewhat strident commanding manner, he is a softie at his core, kind of amorphous (?nuanced?), and some of his decisions are not at all what one would expect of someone in a position of authority and responsibility. They are “sensitive”, taken with an awareness of the great weight of guilt, fault, and fairness. (all of that follows the show’s general theme, of course). (just my $.02 worth, probably an inflated valuation)

As far as the current “realpolitik”, I think what we really have is “Obamapolitik.” It is all about O, his (surface) transcendence. Obama’s initial response to the elections in Iran:

“We are excited to see what appears to be a robust debate taking place in Iran and obviously, after the speech that I made in Cairo, we tried to send a clear message that we think there’s a possibility of change and, ultimately, the election is for the Iranians to decide but just as what has been true in Lebanon, what can be true in Iran as well, is that you’re seeing people looking at new possiblities, and whoever ends up winning the election in Iran, the fact that there’s been a robust debate hopefully will help advance our ability to engage them in new ways.”

I didn’t follow the story at the time, but didn’t Obama say, during his trip to South and Central America, in response to Nicarauga’s Ortega’s speech excoriating the United States, that he (Obama) was just glad that Ortega at least didn’t blame O for something he did when he was two years old? (perhaps a reference to O’s relationship to that scumbag Ayers and what people were saying about it?)

It might be nice if he at least mentioned democracy, or the rule of law, or something along those lines.

We are so f**ked.

Jun 14, 2009 - 5:35 am 6. Wadeusaf:

Perhaps, fear of Hungary ala 1956 is stirring in president Obama’s bowels. Does he say something and appear to commit to change, or does he say nothing and noncommittally let the chips fall where they may.

Jun 14, 2009 - 6:19 am 7. Dave the Kapampangan:

Oba-messiah engagement. Translation = throw the courageous Iranian youths under the bus and legitimize a despotic nutjob, and his obviously faked election results, and his genocidal extermination of the opposition. Then allow Ahmad-a-nutjob and Kim Jong Shill to have nuclear weapons so that bad guys will have “equality” with good guys since bad guy culture and good guy culture are equally valid in our new multicultural ideology.

Jun 14, 2009 - 7:10 am 8. jim in virginia:

Obama has no interest in foreign policy. (W was criticized for trashing relationships with our “traditional allies” but look at Obama’s dissing of Britain.)
He spoke to the Muslim world from Cairo in hopes that they would see we are not their enemy and leave us alone. Iraq, Afghanistan, Pah-kee-stahn, Iran, Korea are just distractions from saving and remaking America. He’s an isolationist, and when something goes wrong, he will sincerely believe it was Bush’s fault. (He was wasn’t even born when the CIA overthrew Iran’s government in the fifties.)

Like Carter- he has no clue and won’t get one, either.

Jun 14, 2009 - 7:32 am 9. Starko:

Jim, I’m afraid you’re right about the Carter comparison. Carter and Obama believe that if you show respect to someone, they are apt to show it back. For most Americans, this is common sense at a personal level (including me).

However, when you’re talking about foreign policy, there are many times when it simply doesn’t translate. There are blood feuds (among many other reasons) and perceptions that are deeply ingrained and have nothing to do with a perceived lack of respect.

Much of the liberal mindset on foreign policy implicitly rests on the idea that all others are like us, so if we follow the golden rule, it will be reciprocated. Would that it were so.

Jun 14, 2009 - 8:30 am 10. buddy larsen:

Starko/9; –three names: Jimmy Carter, Panama Canal, Hugo Chavez

(all the Canal is worth is piddly stuff like allowing us to fight –and win — on two fronts in WWII, and in about 25% less time to boot.)

Jun 14, 2009 - 9:02 am 11. Panday:

Wretchard says: “You really feel sorry for the people who believed in the “Hope and Change” label on the box.”

I’ve never really felt any pity for the stupid or naive.

Those of us who didn’t believe in that idiotic label but were stuck with it anyway are the ones deserving of it.

Jun 14, 2009 - 9:31 am 12. Triton'sPolarTiger:

@9 Starko… “blood feuds”………. just drive-by posting today, but am I correct in recalling that arab/muslim interrelationships are apt to feature blood feuds?

If so, and if Lord Zero is a closet muslim, then should we middle class, non-protected class, conservative/libertarian/strict constructionist/patriot types look at recent economic events in that light? In other words, is he presently executing a jihad against the bedrock, the true backbone of this country? Think 401(k) turning into 201(k), crashing home values, oil/fuel prices heading back up, inflation in the wind, all for the purpose of making we who dissed him by voting against him absolutely destitute?

Every time I pass through Home Depot, I pick up a few packets of seeds… was in there again today – the gal in gardening said that they’d never seen such a demand for those wire cages used for supporting tomato plants. Apparently I’m not alone in figuring we just might be on our own in the not to distant future.

I’m starting to plan for the day when it might be necessary to hunt as well… already have the 12 ga shotgun, but it’s probably time to start rifle shopping.

Any recommendations? Think game from whitetails all the way down to rabbit… and the remote possibility that it might one day prove necessary to defend against two-legged predators as well… caliber? Manufacturer? And why?

Oh, and to avoid being off topic too much – Ole dinner jacket will NOT stop that nuke program. This ends either with a red hot glowing Israel, a shipping container on the Hudson… or some serious aggressive effort (read: B-2’s w/kinetic DU penetrators, or actual bunker busters) at shutting the whole works down.

And since Lord Zero ain’t gonna step in to prevent Israel from getting popped… Iran will have nukes. Period.

Maybe then we can finally drill for our own oil again?

Jun 14, 2009 - 11:17 am 13. buddy larsen:

Triton, whatever happen to Brilliant Spears?

Jun 14, 2009 - 11:31 am 14. Cadmus:

There are many related strings here, so this relates to all of them, and perhaps most others.

Everyone seems to put too much emphasis on the Obama Syndrome. You are giving him much more credit than he deserves (he does not deserve any). He simply capitalized on a social attitude that he did not create it. He is not the cause of the naivety of and idealism of youth. They will ways be that way, and it is up to the adults to lead them out of it.

It is absolutely true that the “social elites” have over simplified the world by assuming everyone in the world react the same to all things. This is far from the truth. People react to events and actions based on their own historic, religious and cultural perspectives and according to their current perception of events and interests.

On the other hand, many who call themselves “conservatives” have gone to the other extreme lumping a lot of people into a single persona that has nothing in common with them and must be despised and eliminated. This is just as far from the truth, and in a way helps the left promote their idea.

The world is multi-cultural and Americans make up only 5% of it. The rest have different cultures. People who are exposed to various cultures – the majority these days – realize that one cannot lump any group into a single persona, or avoid seeing similarities and common interests with many of them. There is good and bad everywhere. That simple fact trumps the absolutist position of declaring all other cultures null and void.

How many people can you think of, who uttered the following words? Think objectively.

“We will do what we believe is in our interest regardless of what the world thinks.”

“We have the right to defend ourselves from terrorist regimes”

“Axis of evil / Great Satan.”

“It is God’s will.”

“God is on our side.”

“Theirs is a culture/religion of terror and oppression.”

“They only understand the language of force.”

“We need to wipe them of the face of the earth.”

“There is no one good among them.”

If we are to maintain the moral high ground, we need to avoid sliding down that slippery slope.

Cadmus

Jun 14, 2009 - 11:42 am 15. Triton'sPolarTiger:

Hey Buddy – I think I probably posted that one a few times too many! Nobody ever commented, so I figured I was out there by myself on that one.

Actually, calling them kinetc du penetrators is more or less the same thing… something the size of a residential telephone pole, heavy metal construction, gps guidance package on the tail, drop from several miles up… well, if you remember “Brilliant Spears” then I guess you remember the rest, eh?

Sonic boom, then pfffffft…

Jun 14, 2009 - 11:44 am 16. Sam Hall:

“If we are to maintain the moral high ground, we need to avoid sliding down that slippery slope.”

You mean the slope we went down fire-bombing Japan?

Most sane people are willing to do what it takes to protect themselves, their family and their country.

When you are in a war, wining is all that counts and a blow heavy enough to win right at the start should produce the lowest overall deaths and destruction. Slowly ratcheting up the pressure, like we did in Vietnam, not only increases the destruction and body count but can cause you to lose.

Jun 14, 2009 - 1:01 pm 17. Unsk:

Buraq’s big problem now is his whole and only approach to Iranian nukes is to negotiate. But with whom?

Dinnerjacket is now seen as illegitimate throughout Iran , and will face mounting problems. Even some hardliner mullahs are being arrested in Iran for their opposition to the election results. Harsh, bloody repression is likely the only way Dinnerjacket will stay in power. So is Buraq going to negotiate with Dinnerjacket, while Iranians are being gunned down in the streets?

As Iran speeds to being a nuclear state, Buraq will be exposed as sniveling, submissive, dutiful closet muslim he really is.

Jun 14, 2009 - 1:31 pm 18. Cadmus:

Sam hall

When battle is engaged, I fully agree with you. I have always had a problem with the way our Government fought its wars. There is no “civilized” or Humane” war. War is hell and it needs to be ended as soon as possible. It is standard military tactic that you strike fast and hard, and that always reduces the over all cost on all sides.

But, I was not talking about battlefield action. We cannot declare the whole world as the enemy – excuse me, except Israel – and hope that this will somehow get us some where. The larger the group we lump together as “The Enemy” the harder it will be for us to deal with them. It also takes away from the veracity of our position.

I have read many in these strings wishing for Blood to flow knee deep. I have heard many people here and elsewhere talk about nuking everyone and coming back home. They talk about how a few nukes will kill every Iranian and end the problem. Sure it will. But, there are all the others we declared the enemy. Do we nuke them too? Is this the kind of people we want to be?

This confrontation in Iran, however it ends, at least proves to any who doubt that there is a large number of Iranians opposed to the Mullahs. If we condemn them to death on the premise that they do not have the ability today to go against them on their own, what kind of people would we be?

This would be like killing everyone in the neighborhood because there is criminal living there and the rest could not remove him on their own.

Is that the kind of people we want to be?

I am all for fighting those who wish us harm. God knows I have done enough of that, and still have a lot of fight in me. But, I pride myself on being a better human being. I fight to preserve a civilize world I am proud of and want to pass it on to my children.

I oppose our enemies because they have no respect for human life. Because they conduct collective murder. Because, they dehumanize all who disagree with them and condemn them to death. Because, they have no respect for others. Etc.

If I give up all I believe in and become them, then what am I fighting for? If I compromise all my principles, then who do I become?

Hate is a very destructive force, and it destroys us whether we win or loose the fight. It eats us from within. It transforms people into what they started up hating.

I tell you from experience. You can fight the devil without become a demon yourself. You can confront evil and still retain your goodness.

The picture of the Marine cradling a baby out bomb wreckage in Iraq with the tenderness of a loving mother comes to mind. Sure the baby may one day become our enemy. But, on that day it was an innocent baby. And, the good marine treated him with the humanity and love that God expected from him. That is the kind of people I believe we should always be.

Our enemies would have chopped the baby to peaces.

We must retain our perspective. We must remain better than them, or it will be all form nothing.

Cadmus

Jun 14, 2009 - 2:21 pm 19. Cadmus:

There is serious risk of regional war from all this that needs to be taken seriously. Ahmadinejad may find it necessary to divert this problem by going on the offensive against Israel to silence his critics.

It will not be through Hizbullah. First that would not save him. Second, Hizbullah may be radical, but they are not stupid. They will not do anything while the chips in Iran are in he air. If they act and Ahmadinejad falls, they are minced meet.

He will have to start something directly with Israel. Better yet, instigate an Israeli attack, which would serve him best, if he survives the attack. But, what is dying man to fear?

The irony of this is that Netanyahu is also squeezed on the issue of Palestinian statehood and is looking for a way to divert attention.

Could the two come together as a perfect storm?

The risk is certainly there.

Cadmus

Jun 14, 2009 - 2:34 pm 20. Dave the Kapampangan:

To the Iranian students:

“Students, I know that you think that…

1. We student “cowboys” will do what we believe is in our interest regardless of what the world thinks.

2. We students have the right to defend ourselves from Ahmadinejad’s terrorist regime

3. It is God’s will.

4. God is on our (students) side.

5. Ahmadinejad and his thugs support a wrongful culture of terror and oppression.

6. They (the mullahs) only understand the language of force.

7. Ahmadinejad, the Mullahs, and their supplier Kim Jong Il are part of an axis of evil.

… But you know, it’s really a slippery slope, so I suggest you put away those unsophisticated Bushisms and illiberal thoughts. Seeing the world in black and white is so quaint. You have to maintain the moral high ground here, and tolerate abuse for the sake of respecting the “culture” of the percentage of the population that perpetrates it. After all, yours is not the only morality in this multicultural world.

Sincerely,
America, OSSR

Jun 14, 2009 - 2:36 pm 21. Walt:

The problem is, the mullahs and Ahmadinejad want to be engaged with the United States only so far as it serves their purpose of delaying as long as possible any action on the part of the US regarding their nuclear program. Once Iran has the bomb, of course, there will be no further need to pretend they welcome engagement with us or anyone else, except to formulate the terms of our surrender. If we’re going to get engaged to the lady, make sure it’s not a one way street, with us going the wrong way. My advice to President Obama is this:

To be engaged you need a ring
To put upon her finger
But just be sure she’s had her fling
And now she wants to linger
With you and only you my lad
And not with Mr. Putin
Or what is worse or just as bad
With someone high-falutin’
Like China’s big-time rulers now
Who seem to be so deft
And think it’s time we took a bow
And exited stage left
And just be sure she’s not a flirt
Just stringing you along
Before she throws you in the dirt
And sings a goodbye song
I see no good from this affair
No matter that she’s charming
I say to you just have a care
Some belles are quite alarming

Jun 14, 2009 - 3:34 pm 22. fred:

What part of all the events since 1979 that, in effect, amount to war between Iran and the United States of America do the chattering classes not get?

Besides, anyone with any knowledge of how Iran really works is never fooled by any election in that country. The Mullahs rule. End of story. Yet, this weekend I met people who never knew this fact. And when I informed them that it is the clerics’ council that rules the country I got either blank stares or a dismissal of what I said.

I think we have a date with destiny, but that destiny is not one that most of our people are going to like. I’m afraid things have to get much, much worse before the cold water animates the nerves.

Jun 14, 2009 - 3:48 pm 23. Cadmus:

What is this paranoia with “surrender”. Why would the US surrender?

We did not surrender to the USSR or China when they were nuclear foes with much more nukes than Iran can make in decades. We have not surrendered to North Korea, Pakistan, India, or any other nuclear power.

Even if the leadership is so spineless that it stops opposing Iran, who will it surrender to?

You must have an invading force with enough manpower to take over control of the country. The size of the US would require millions of Iranians coming ashore all at once to take over. Let’s get real.

If they get nukes and decide to use them, we and our allies have enough to wipe them out. They know that, as well as we do. As much as many may believe, these guys are not looking to die for nothing. And, it will be nothing if their actions end their existence all together. At most, they hope to join the big boy club with Pakistan, India and Israel.

We do not want them to join that club. I personally wish there was no club.

But, surrender and Iranian take over of the US! Geez!!

Cadmus

Jun 14, 2009 - 3:57 pm 24. Walt:

Cadmus — I don’t believe anyone is using the term “surrender” in the sense the Iranian flag will be flying over the Capitol and Ahmadinejad moving into the White House. I at least mean surrendering our long-held policy of exerting our will in that area of the world and allowing Iran to dictate our actions. One can surrender one’s freedom of action in defending one’s interests without being invaded.

Walt Erickson

Jun 14, 2009 - 4:18 pm 25. Bob Smith:

It’s being reported that Mousavi has been arrested: http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1092304.html

Jun 14, 2009 - 5:26 pm 26. Gaffe Prices:

Michael Ledeen points out that both the Guardian and the BBC are reporting that “the regime ordered its (Basij and imported Hezbollah) thugs to open fire on the demonstrators”.

And also that many who are employed by the regime, in the Army are sympathetic to the demonstration and the demonstrators, so that the regime was forced to import disinterested, professional thugs whose bloodlust is in need of a fix the carry out the orders of violent repression ordered by the regime’s top mullahs.

Jun 16, 2009 - 3:16 pm 27. Gaffe Prices:

wow, I just watched the montage vid: and they say waterboarding is torture

engage

Jun 16, 2009 - 3:36 pm

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