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	<title>Comments on: June the 20th</title>
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	<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2009/06/20/june-the-20th/</link>
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		<title>By: Surind Raj</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2009/06/20/june-the-20th/comment-page-1/#comment-57899</link>
		<dc:creator>Surind Raj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Jun 2009 07:53:04 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>(Linkback)
http://surind.blogspot.com/2009/06/tehran-univesity-students-abused-killed.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(Linkback)<br />
<a href="http://surind.blogspot.com/2009/06/tehran-univesity-students-abused-killed.html" rel="nofollow">http://surind.blogspot.com/2009/06/tehran-univesity-students-abused-killed.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: ledger</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2009/06/20/june-the-20th/comment-page-1/#comment-57890</link>
		<dc:creator>ledger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Jun 2009 05:53:56 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&quot;I would give Assad a sharp solid rap and be making a lot of threatening noises towards southern Lebanon. Anything to keep the maximum number of Hez fighters in place and out of Iran. Knock the other guy off balance. –ambisinistral

That is a plan. But, as you have said Obama game is mumbling vague platitudes with no real force to back it up.

I believe that time is of the essence if any meaningful action is to be taken against Assad or Khamenei. Both are very close to their victims and out number them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I would give Assad a sharp solid rap and be making a lot of threatening noises towards southern Lebanon. Anything to keep the maximum number of Hez fighters in place and out of Iran. Knock the other guy off balance. –ambisinistral</p>
<p>That is a plan. But, as you have said Obama game is mumbling vague platitudes with no real force to back it up.</p>
<p>I believe that time is of the essence if any meaningful action is to be taken against Assad or Khamenei. Both are very close to their victims and out number them.</p>
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		<title>By: Tcobb</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2009/06/20/june-the-20th/comment-page-1/#comment-57889</link>
		<dc:creator>Tcobb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Jun 2009 05:29:14 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;b&gt;These are the same people who called firing the Inspector General “An act of political courage.”&lt;/b&gt;
Yes--the &quot;best and the brightest&quot; don&#039;t have a clue as to how fast to heat up the American Frog so as it won&#039;t notice its being turned into soup.  After all, if the heat goes up too fast it might jump out of the pot--and the American Taxpayer frog is venomous and can turn aggressive.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>These are the same people who called firing the Inspector General “An act of political courage.”</b><br />
Yes&#8211;the &#8220;best and the brightest&#8221; don&#8217;t have a clue as to how fast to heat up the American Frog so as it won&#8217;t notice its being turned into soup.  After all, if the heat goes up too fast it might jump out of the pot&#8211;and the American Taxpayer frog is venomous and can turn aggressive.</p>
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		<title>By: Lifeofthemind</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2009/06/20/june-the-20th/comment-page-1/#comment-57887</link>
		<dc:creator>Lifeofthemind</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Jun 2009 05:09:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=4615#comment-57887</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;Anodyne&lt;/b&gt;,
&lt;i&gt;These count as “courage” and “foresight” in some circles …&lt;/i&gt;

These are the same people who called firing the Inspector General &quot;An act of political courage.&quot;

I&#039;d rather be governed by Danny Kaye.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>Anodyne</b>,<br />
<i>These count as “courage” and “foresight” in some circles …</i></p>
<p>These are the same people who called firing the Inspector General &#8220;An act of political courage.&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;d rather be governed by Danny Kaye.</p>
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		<title>By: Mongoose</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2009/06/20/june-the-20th/comment-page-1/#comment-57886</link>
		<dc:creator>Mongoose</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Jun 2009 05:04:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=4615#comment-57886</guid>
		<description>Well, E.Nigma, if  twitter is any guide, young Americans &lt;i&gt;do&lt;/I&gt; seem to care about Iranians, particularly their own cohort over there. The usual wastrels are out in force in Union Square in Manhattan, only this time the flags are green instead of red.

There &lt;i&gt;is&lt;/i&gt; a subtle undercurrent here: Obama has manipulated the idealism of youth in order to get elected. His cynicism, incompetence and cowardliness may alienate some of them.

The iranelection twitter stream  certainly cannot be characterized as flattering to Obama.

We shall see. My guess is that this is not the moment were the scales fall, but it is an important step along the way. Unfortunately, there will be opportunities aplenty to see what stuff he is made of, and they will come upon us very soon.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, E.Nigma, if  twitter is any guide, young Americans <i>do</i> seem to care about Iranians, particularly their own cohort over there. The usual wastrels are out in force in Union Square in Manhattan, only this time the flags are green instead of red.</p>
<p>There <i>is</i> a subtle undercurrent here: Obama has manipulated the idealism of youth in order to get elected. His cynicism, incompetence and cowardliness may alienate some of them.</p>
<p>The iranelection twitter stream  certainly cannot be characterized as flattering to Obama.</p>
<p>We shall see. My guess is that this is not the moment were the scales fall, but it is an important step along the way. Unfortunately, there will be opportunities aplenty to see what stuff he is made of, and they will come upon us very soon.</p>
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		<title>By: Anodyne</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2009/06/20/june-the-20th/comment-page-1/#comment-57884</link>
		<dc:creator>Anodyne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Jun 2009 04:48:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=4615#comment-57884</guid>
		<description>&quot;After a week of wearing a deer in the headlights look, mumbling vague platitudes and eating ice cream seems to be the extent of his game.&quot;

These count as &quot;courage&quot; and &quot;foresight&quot; in some circles ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;After a week of wearing a deer in the headlights look, mumbling vague platitudes and eating ice cream seems to be the extent of his game.&#8221;</p>
<p>These count as &#8220;courage&#8221; and &#8220;foresight&#8221; in some circles &#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Lifeofthemind</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2009/06/20/june-the-20th/comment-page-1/#comment-57882</link>
		<dc:creator>Lifeofthemind</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Jun 2009 04:45:42 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>It surprises me that Ahmadinejehad has not gotten the IRGC to provoke a confrontation in the Straits of Hormuz.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It surprises me that Ahmadinejehad has not gotten the IRGC to provoke a confrontation in the Straits of Hormuz.</p>
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		<title>By: ambisinistral</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2009/06/20/june-the-20th/comment-page-1/#comment-57881</link>
		<dc:creator>ambisinistral</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Jun 2009 04:45:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=4615#comment-57881</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;I believe this is the time to be opportunistic.&lt;/i&gt;

I would give Assad a sharp solid rap and be making a lot of threatening noises towards southern Lebanon. Anything to keep the maximum number of Hez fighters in place and out of Iran. Knock the other guy off balance.

Obama won&#039;t do that though. After a week of wearing a deer in the headlights look, mumbling vague platitudes and eating ice cream seems to be the extent of his game.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I believe this is the time to be opportunistic.</i></p>
<p>I would give Assad a sharp solid rap and be making a lot of threatening noises towards southern Lebanon. Anything to keep the maximum number of Hez fighters in place and out of Iran. Knock the other guy off balance.</p>
<p>Obama won&#8217;t do that though. After a week of wearing a deer in the headlights look, mumbling vague platitudes and eating ice cream seems to be the extent of his game.</p>
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		<title>By: Tcobb</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2009/06/20/june-the-20th/comment-page-1/#comment-57878</link>
		<dc:creator>Tcobb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Jun 2009 04:28:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=4615#comment-57878</guid>
		<description>We talk about patterns in history, and governments that have sowed, due to the intrinsic pattern of their rule, the seeds of their own destruction.  Is this not playing out now?

I submit that an honest thugocracy (we&#039;re thugs, we admit it, but we only want X percent of what you make and if you give it to us we&#039;ll leave you alone) is a lot more stable than a regime like Iran&#039;s, in which the legitimacy of the ruling class depends upon a level of virtue that few humans can ever really attain. Instead, it becomes a government dominated by those who can project an outward aura of being virtuous. Paradoxically, people who are best at this tend to have sociopathic tendencies.  The more virtuous a society demands its rulers to be, the more likely it is that the leaders will be scum. The truly virtuous will not lie to disguise their faults. The scum will, and they will float to the top.

But Orwellian doublethink only works up to a point.  They can say that your daily ration of ramen noodles is being &quot;increased&quot; from three packages a day to two packages, and expect you to pretend that this is so, but there are points at which the ability to suspend reason ends.  And when this happens, and the spell ends, there can be severe consequences for the functionaries that fined us for saying that the emperor had no clothes.  When doublethink breaks, it doesn&#039;t just crack--it has a tendency to shatter into dust.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We talk about patterns in history, and governments that have sowed, due to the intrinsic pattern of their rule, the seeds of their own destruction.  Is this not playing out now?</p>
<p>I submit that an honest thugocracy (we&#8217;re thugs, we admit it, but we only want X percent of what you make and if you give it to us we&#8217;ll leave you alone) is a lot more stable than a regime like Iran&#8217;s, in which the legitimacy of the ruling class depends upon a level of virtue that few humans can ever really attain. Instead, it becomes a government dominated by those who can project an outward aura of being virtuous. Paradoxically, people who are best at this tend to have sociopathic tendencies.  The more virtuous a society demands its rulers to be, the more likely it is that the leaders will be scum. The truly virtuous will not lie to disguise their faults. The scum will, and they will float to the top.</p>
<p>But Orwellian doublethink only works up to a point.  They can say that your daily ration of ramen noodles is being &#8220;increased&#8221; from three packages a day to two packages, and expect you to pretend that this is so, but there are points at which the ability to suspend reason ends.  And when this happens, and the spell ends, there can be severe consequences for the functionaries that fined us for saying that the emperor had no clothes.  When doublethink breaks, it doesn&#8217;t just crack&#8211;it has a tendency to shatter into dust.</p>
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		<title>By: ledger</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2009/06/20/june-the-20th/comment-page-1/#comment-57875</link>
		<dc:creator>ledger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Jun 2009 04:19:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=4615#comment-57875</guid>
		<description>I believe this is the time to be opportunistic. 

Iran has been at the heart of the Iran/Syrian/North Korean axis nuclear arms trading game. These weapons in the hands of terrorists pose an extreme threat to the world.

Mir Hossein Mousavi has said he will become a martyr if the elections are not annulled. The situation could not get much worse.

It actually could be quite advantageous to the USA and possibly democracy as a whole. Remember Khamenei and his goons were the ones who held USA embassy personnel hostage. We own him a payback.

I would suggest supplying the Mir Hossein Mousavi supporters with communication equipment and small arms. 

Give Mousavi supporters enough command, control and fire power to inflict significant damage on Khamenei’s  Revolutionary Guards. At least enough damage to rattle and possible flip a few Revolutionary Guards into changing sides and providing access to armories.

The idea is to disorganize your enemy and keep him tied up with internal strife. With the current situation being a tinder box a well timed spark could ignite it.

Aiding Mousavi supporters would keep Ayatollah Ali Khamenei and his lackey Ahmadinejad hunkered down for personal safety and distracted from making nuclear weapons (and supporting terrorists).

There could also be some well timed liquidation of top leaders of the Revolutionary Guards. Better yet some of the top Revolutionary Guards may be flipped.

There is a spectrum of out comes using the above method. 

1. Khamenei could be ousted and his lackey’s liquidated – and some seeds of democracy planted. 

2. There could be a long and bloody civil war. 

3. Lastly, a large number of Mousavi supporters could be jailed or destroyed leaving a lasting bitter resentment against Khamenei.

All of the above could prove costly and greatly hinder Khamenei from building ballistic nuclear weapons.

The major flaw in this scenario is a US President has no spine or military experience. Worse, he is infatuated with his own image, has shown dislike for America and has solid ties to Muslims (although not Persians).

Barring the above paragraph it is a perfect time to seize the initiative, defang a nuclear Iran, and possibly help the Iranian people gain some freedom and democracy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe this is the time to be opportunistic. </p>
<p>Iran has been at the heart of the Iran/Syrian/North Korean axis nuclear arms trading game. These weapons in the hands of terrorists pose an extreme threat to the world.</p>
<p>Mir Hossein Mousavi has said he will become a martyr if the elections are not annulled. The situation could not get much worse.</p>
<p>It actually could be quite advantageous to the USA and possibly democracy as a whole. Remember Khamenei and his goons were the ones who held USA embassy personnel hostage. We own him a payback.</p>
<p>I would suggest supplying the Mir Hossein Mousavi supporters with communication equipment and small arms. </p>
<p>Give Mousavi supporters enough command, control and fire power to inflict significant damage on Khamenei’s  Revolutionary Guards. At least enough damage to rattle and possible flip a few Revolutionary Guards into changing sides and providing access to armories.</p>
<p>The idea is to disorganize your enemy and keep him tied up with internal strife. With the current situation being a tinder box a well timed spark could ignite it.</p>
<p>Aiding Mousavi supporters would keep Ayatollah Ali Khamenei and his lackey Ahmadinejad hunkered down for personal safety and distracted from making nuclear weapons (and supporting terrorists).</p>
<p>There could also be some well timed liquidation of top leaders of the Revolutionary Guards. Better yet some of the top Revolutionary Guards may be flipped.</p>
<p>There is a spectrum of out comes using the above method. </p>
<p>1. Khamenei could be ousted and his lackey’s liquidated – and some seeds of democracy planted. </p>
<p>2. There could be a long and bloody civil war. </p>
<p>3. Lastly, a large number of Mousavi supporters could be jailed or destroyed leaving a lasting bitter resentment against Khamenei.</p>
<p>All of the above could prove costly and greatly hinder Khamenei from building ballistic nuclear weapons.</p>
<p>The major flaw in this scenario is a US President has no spine or military experience. Worse, he is infatuated with his own image, has shown dislike for America and has solid ties to Muslims (although not Persians).</p>
<p>Barring the above paragraph it is a perfect time to seize the initiative, defang a nuclear Iran, and possibly help the Iranian people gain some freedom and democracy.</p>
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