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	<title>Comments on: Let&#8217;s make a deal</title>
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	<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2009/07/13/lets-make-a-deal-2/</link>
	<description>Just another Pajamasmedia.com weblog</description>
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		<title>By: buddy larsen</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2009/07/13/lets-make-a-deal-2/comment-page-3/#comment-61995</link>
		<dc:creator>buddy larsen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 07:32:29 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Bob Murphy/135; the principle involved is same as &quot;No need to outrun the bear --just outrun your mate!&quot;
;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bob Murphy/135; the principle involved is same as &#8220;No need to outrun the bear &#8211;just outrun your mate!&#8221;<br />
 <img src='http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: RCM</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2009/07/13/lets-make-a-deal-2/comment-page-3/#comment-61991</link>
		<dc:creator>RCM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 05:21:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=5025#comment-61991</guid>
		<description>PA Cat @113 and Bogie:

I feel your pain...Cleveland Indians.  Even though I left Ohio for boot camp in 1969, they are - will always be - my team.  Michigan of course, exists to torment expat Buckeyes.

Punishment gluttony.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PA Cat @113 and Bogie:</p>
<p>I feel your pain&#8230;Cleveland Indians.  Even though I left Ohio for boot camp in 1969, they are &#8211; will always be &#8211; my team.  Michigan of course, exists to torment expat Buckeyes.</p>
<p>Punishment gluttony.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob Murphy</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2009/07/13/lets-make-a-deal-2/comment-page-3/#comment-61978</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Murphy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 03:25:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=5025#comment-61978</guid>
		<description>Right, Tony. The last one didn&#039;t take the long jump because he started singing. It&#039;s not as messy as torture but it gets the job done when you need information.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Right, Tony. The last one didn&#8217;t take the long jump because he started singing. It&#8217;s not as messy as torture but it gets the job done when you need information.</p>
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		<title>By: Tony</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2009/07/13/lets-make-a-deal-2/comment-page-3/#comment-61973</link>
		<dc:creator>Tony</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 02:27:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=5025#comment-61973</guid>
		<description>131: Clinton avoided active Defense, today&#039;s Democrats criminalize it.

130: &lt;i&gt;followed by a long step outside the door of a flying Blackhawk.
&lt;/i&gt;

As I heard it, it was a Huey, and only the first two of the lucky three departed the aircraft.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>131: Clinton avoided active Defense, today&#8217;s Democrats criminalize it.</p>
<p>130: <i>followed by a long step outside the door of a flying Blackhawk.<br />
</i></p>
<p>As I heard it, it was a Huey, and only the first two of the lucky three departed the aircraft.</p>
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		<title>By: Craigicus</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2009/07/13/lets-make-a-deal-2/comment-page-3/#comment-61971</link>
		<dc:creator>Craigicus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 01:56:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=5025#comment-61971</guid>
		<description>Could part of the deal be this gas pipeline that makes Mother Russia want to vomit?

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/KG15Ak01.html



Pipeline deal is sweet music for Iran
By M K Bhadrakumar 

How a trans-Caspian gas pipeline project came to be named after the 19th-century Italian Romantic composer Giuseppe Verdi&#039;s famous opera Nabucco remains obscure. The opera is based on a Biblical story about the tragic plight of persecuted Jews exiled from their homeland by the Babylonian King Nebuchadnezzar. Maybe, the opera&#039;s enchanting story of love and struggle or its tendency toward melodrama was considered an apt metaphor for the acute Caspian energy rivalry. 

Moscow often poured scorn on the Nabucco project&#039;s dim prospects by drawing apt allusions from Verdi&#039;s opera. In the latest parody, an expert commentator in Moscow ridiculed that the &quot;chaotic chanting&quot; by Europeans in support of the project reminded him of the haunting chorus of Hebrew slaves from Verdi&#039;s opera - &quot;beautiful, yet altogether gloomy and hopeless&quot;. 

But he was mistaken, as on Monday a galaxy of European statesmen gathered under chandeliers in the banquet hall of the newly built Rixos Hotel in Ankara, Turkey, to sign an inter-governmental agreement formally launching the Nabucco project. United States President Barack Obama&#039;s special envoy on Eurasian energy issues, Richard Morningstar, was in attendance at the ceremony, affirming in unmistakable terms that Nabucco is every bit an American political venture. 

(see link above for complete story..)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Could part of the deal be this gas pipeline that makes Mother Russia want to vomit?</p>
<p><a href="http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/KG15Ak01.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/KG15Ak01.html</a></p>
<p>Pipeline deal is sweet music for Iran<br />
By M K Bhadrakumar </p>
<p>How a trans-Caspian gas pipeline project came to be named after the 19th-century Italian Romantic composer Giuseppe Verdi&#8217;s famous opera Nabucco remains obscure. The opera is based on a Biblical story about the tragic plight of persecuted Jews exiled from their homeland by the Babylonian King Nebuchadnezzar. Maybe, the opera&#8217;s enchanting story of love and struggle or its tendency toward melodrama was considered an apt metaphor for the acute Caspian energy rivalry. </p>
<p>Moscow often poured scorn on the Nabucco project&#8217;s dim prospects by drawing apt allusions from Verdi&#8217;s opera. In the latest parody, an expert commentator in Moscow ridiculed that the &#8220;chaotic chanting&#8221; by Europeans in support of the project reminded him of the haunting chorus of Hebrew slaves from Verdi&#8217;s opera &#8211; &#8220;beautiful, yet altogether gloomy and hopeless&#8221;. </p>
<p>But he was mistaken, as on Monday a galaxy of European statesmen gathered under chandeliers in the banquet hall of the newly built Rixos Hotel in Ankara, Turkey, to sign an inter-governmental agreement formally launching the Nabucco project. United States President Barack Obama&#8217;s special envoy on Eurasian energy issues, Richard Morningstar, was in attendance at the ceremony, affirming in unmistakable terms that Nabucco is every bit an American political venture. </p>
<p>(see link above for complete story..)</p>
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		<title>By: buddy larsen</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2009/07/13/lets-make-a-deal-2/comment-page-3/#comment-61966</link>
		<dc:creator>buddy larsen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 01:35:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=5025#comment-61966</guid>
		<description>i thought she handled North Korea brilliantly, with that provision mandating those video camera installations in the NoKo nuclear processing plants. of course it would have worked out better if she had thought to include language whereby the cameras had to be plugged in, but what the hey.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i thought she handled North Korea brilliantly, with that provision mandating those video camera installations in the NoKo nuclear processing plants. of course it would have worked out better if she had thought to include language whereby the cameras had to be plugged in, but what the hey.</p>
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		<title>By: AWH</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2009/07/13/lets-make-a-deal-2/comment-page-3/#comment-61954</link>
		<dc:creator>AWH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 00:33:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=5025#comment-61954</guid>
		<description>#129 - the purpose of my post wasn&#039;t to defend Clinton.  As I said, &quot;No excuse for Carter or Clinton, however.&quot;  The differences between Clinton and Obama are twofold:

1.  At least Clinton had the excuse that it was a widely held belief (albeit a stupid belief in my mind) that the world was no longer a dangerous place when he took over.

2.  I think Obama has even less backbone and ability to act than did Clinton.  Frankly, I give 50/50 odds that he&#039;ll either be totally frozen in the first real crisis, or could just flip out and have to be held secluded while someone else manages the crisis.

You are correct, though.  Clinton could have prevented a lot of what&#039;s happening in the world if he&#039;d had the foresight.  Unfortunately surrounding yourself with hacks like Warren Christopher and Madeliene Albright doesn&#039;t give you a lot of options when it comes to thinking outside of the box (btw, my wife took a class with Albright at Georgetown and to this day claims she was the stupidest of her professors).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#129 &#8211; the purpose of my post wasn&#8217;t to defend Clinton.  As I said, &#8220;No excuse for Carter or Clinton, however.&#8221;  The differences between Clinton and Obama are twofold:</p>
<p>1.  At least Clinton had the excuse that it was a widely held belief (albeit a stupid belief in my mind) that the world was no longer a dangerous place when he took over.</p>
<p>2.  I think Obama has even less backbone and ability to act than did Clinton.  Frankly, I give 50/50 odds that he&#8217;ll either be totally frozen in the first real crisis, or could just flip out and have to be held secluded while someone else manages the crisis.</p>
<p>You are correct, though.  Clinton could have prevented a lot of what&#8217;s happening in the world if he&#8217;d had the foresight.  Unfortunately surrounding yourself with hacks like Warren Christopher and Madeliene Albright doesn&#8217;t give you a lot of options when it comes to thinking outside of the box (btw, my wife took a class with Albright at Georgetown and to this day claims she was the stupidest of her professors).</p>
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		<title>By: Bob Murphy</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2009/07/13/lets-make-a-deal-2/comment-page-3/#comment-61948</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Murphy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 23:58:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=5025#comment-61948</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m afraid handing over those Iranian Quods Force killers will result in more ad hoc forced interrogations of high priority targets in the field to get vital information followed by a long step outside the door of a flying Blackhawk.
I&#039;m afraid that would be my inclination and those of a lot of others, given the wide access to military intelligence and the strategic level understanding of our SOCOM operatives in the field.
Catch and release is not the way to fight this war and it will engender effective, if undesirable, real world solutions to the problem of what to do with captured high level targets.
We need their information but we don&#039;t need them on the loose again.
If the official system is dysfunctional...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m afraid handing over those Iranian Quods Force killers will result in more ad hoc forced interrogations of high priority targets in the field to get vital information followed by a long step outside the door of a flying Blackhawk.<br />
I&#8217;m afraid that would be my inclination and those of a lot of others, given the wide access to military intelligence and the strategic level understanding of our SOCOM operatives in the field.<br />
Catch and release is not the way to fight this war and it will engender effective, if undesirable, real world solutions to the problem of what to do with captured high level targets.<br />
We need their information but we don&#8217;t need them on the loose again.<br />
If the official system is dysfunctional&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Tony</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2009/07/13/lets-make-a-deal-2/comment-page-3/#comment-61945</link>
		<dc:creator>Tony</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 23:37:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=5025#comment-61945</guid>
		<description>#127 - President Clinton did not act in response to the fatal attack on the USS Cole, a capital ship, an act of war, because it was &quot;too close to the election.&quot;

He&#039;s talking about Al Gore&#039;s election there. He&#039;s frozen, can&#039;t respond to a deadly act of war, because it might affect the polls.

Clinton couldn&#039;t take custody of Osama bin Laden when offered the chance by Sudan because he didn&#039;t have legal grounds to hold him.

Sorry, didn&#039;t mean to go off on a tangent. Is this the same President Clinton who sent scads of rare, expensive SLCM&#039;s to downtown Sudan to blow up a nerve gas factory where Osama and Saddam were cooperating (but Monica Lewinsky wasn&#039;t?) 

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/africa/9808/24/bomb.damage/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;CNN: U.S.: Sudan plant sample contains VX nerve gas precursor
Soil sample called &#039;smoking gun&#039; 
&lt;/a&gt;

But then this same President Clinton couldn&#039;t do anything about the USS Cole because it was too close to the election?

How many real wars would we have lost and imaginary wars would we have won by now, if Clinton had responded to the USS Cole the way George Bush responded to 9/11?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#127 &#8211; President Clinton did not act in response to the fatal attack on the USS Cole, a capital ship, an act of war, because it was &#8220;too close to the election.&#8221;</p>
<p>He&#8217;s talking about Al Gore&#8217;s election there. He&#8217;s frozen, can&#8217;t respond to a deadly act of war, because it might affect the polls.</p>
<p>Clinton couldn&#8217;t take custody of Osama bin Laden when offered the chance by Sudan because he didn&#8217;t have legal grounds to hold him.</p>
<p>Sorry, didn&#8217;t mean to go off on a tangent. Is this the same President Clinton who sent scads of rare, expensive SLCM&#8217;s to downtown Sudan to blow up a nerve gas factory where Osama and Saddam were cooperating (but Monica Lewinsky wasn&#8217;t?) </p>
<p><a href="http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/africa/9808/24/bomb.damage/" rel="nofollow">CNN: U.S.: Sudan plant sample contains VX nerve gas precursor<br />
Soil sample called &#8217;smoking gun&#8217;<br />
</a></p>
<p>But then this same President Clinton couldn&#8217;t do anything about the USS Cole because it was too close to the election?</p>
<p>How many real wars would we have lost and imaginary wars would we have won by now, if Clinton had responded to the USS Cole the way George Bush responded to 9/11?</p>
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		<title>By: Wadeusaf</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2009/07/13/lets-make-a-deal-2/comment-page-3/#comment-61915</link>
		<dc:creator>Wadeusaf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 20:03:36 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>By what logic does trading one journalist for five or six or more &quot;terrorist ineffectives&quot; happen? I am not convinced that there was no deal, but I am certain the terms were not as Michael Ledeen has stated. It make no sense as a gesture or as a trade, even for president Obama.

 I tend to believe the interpretation of status of forces agreement is to blame for this. I think General Petraeus is in agreement with that interpretation of the events opposed to the one as outlined here.  
&lt;a href=&quot;http://news.antiwar.com/2009/07/12/behind-detainee-release-a-us-iraqi-conflict-on-iran/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By what logic does trading one journalist for five or six or more &#8220;terrorist ineffectives&#8221; happen? I am not convinced that there was no deal, but I am certain the terms were not as Michael Ledeen has stated. It make no sense as a gesture or as a trade, even for president Obama.</p>
<p> I tend to believe the interpretation of status of forces agreement is to blame for this. I think General Petraeus is in agreement with that interpretation of the events opposed to the one as outlined here.<br />
<a href="http://news.antiwar.com/2009/07/12/behind-detainee-release-a-us-iraqi-conflict-on-iran/" rel="nofollow">here</a></p>
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