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	<title>Comments on: Who saved GI Joe?</title>
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		<title>By: Rurik</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2009/07/14/who-saved-gi-joe/comment-page-3/#comment-62184</link>
		<dc:creator>Rurik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 14:59:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=5039#comment-62184</guid>
		<description>Several of you, such as 22. Robert Speirs, have questioned whether those who did not survive might have also heard from reassuring &quot;third men&quot; who failed to protect them.
Fair enough and unprovable by definition. But perhaps those who perished were given not the &quot;you will survive&quot;, message, but an  alternative message &quot;You will not survive, your time is now; come with me, NOW.&quot; The precise visage of such a messenger probably would vary from cullture to culture. Our culture is rife with images of a &quot;Grim Reaper&quot; who comes for the dead. The old Norse believed in Valkyries who escorted the dead from the battlefield. The ancient Achaeans also seem to have known of this guardian phenomenon, associating it with their many deities instead of angels. There are many mentions in the Illiad of heroes being protected by their patron god. It recounts how Achilles was able to challenge and wound Aphrodite, Hector&#039;s patron and then kill Hector once she had been driven off. The important legends not only represent quaint stories, but last down the ages becaue they reflect the deepest of our human themes and experiences. Who can say otherwise. Perhaps everyone meets such a messenger at the moment of death? Those whose experiences were only near death, cannot say, since they were not actually taken. To paraphrase the Zen proverb, Those who can say do not know; those who know can no longer say.

Alternatively, there may be an aspect of predestinarianism at work. Though I am not personally a believer in predestination, or that only some people are Chosen and Beloved and others Of No Interest, I cannot refute such a belief, and it would explain why only some individuals might have special guardians and protectors. I do not know or understand because I ain&#039;t dead yet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Several of you, such as 22. Robert Speirs, have questioned whether those who did not survive might have also heard from reassuring &#8220;third men&#8221; who failed to protect them.<br />
Fair enough and unprovable by definition. But perhaps those who perished were given not the &#8220;you will survive&#8221;, message, but an  alternative message &#8220;You will not survive, your time is now; come with me, NOW.&#8221; The precise visage of such a messenger probably would vary from cullture to culture. Our culture is rife with images of a &#8220;Grim Reaper&#8221; who comes for the dead. The old Norse believed in Valkyries who escorted the dead from the battlefield. The ancient Achaeans also seem to have known of this guardian phenomenon, associating it with their many deities instead of angels. There are many mentions in the Illiad of heroes being protected by their patron god. It recounts how Achilles was able to challenge and wound Aphrodite, Hector&#8217;s patron and then kill Hector once she had been driven off. The important legends not only represent quaint stories, but last down the ages becaue they reflect the deepest of our human themes and experiences. Who can say otherwise. Perhaps everyone meets such a messenger at the moment of death? Those whose experiences were only near death, cannot say, since they were not actually taken. To paraphrase the Zen proverb, Those who can say do not know; those who know can no longer say.</p>
<p>Alternatively, there may be an aspect of predestinarianism at work. Though I am not personally a believer in predestination, or that only some people are Chosen and Beloved and others Of No Interest, I cannot refute such a belief, and it would explain why only some individuals might have special guardians and protectors. I do not know or understand because I ain&#8217;t dead yet.</p>
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		<title>By: Doug</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2009/07/14/who-saved-gi-joe/comment-page-3/#comment-62158</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 10:02:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=5039#comment-62158</guid>
		<description>Yeah Buddy, I think it went beyond styles and fashion in a multitude of ways.
Progress has not always been our most important product wrt some eternal verities.
Your description evoked a recall of a lost wholesomeness.
Rangy, huh?
My mom was described as &quot;Willowy&quot; in High School.
And that she was.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah Buddy, I think it went beyond styles and fashion in a multitude of ways.<br />
Progress has not always been our most important product wrt some eternal verities.<br />
Your description evoked a recall of a lost wholesomeness.<br />
Rangy, huh?<br />
My mom was described as &#8220;Willowy&#8221; in High School.<br />
And that she was.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2009/07/14/who-saved-gi-joe/comment-page-3/#comment-62155</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 09:21:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=5039#comment-62155</guid>
		<description>Hi Karen Yvonne.

I am convinced that what saved Mitchell Paige was in, but not of, this world.

Men in combat, and under other stressful conditions do do things without conciously thinking about them.  

I myself have come fully awake while changing magazines.  I had grabbed the weapon on bipod and fired two long low bursts traversing the area in front of me without knowing what I was doing except that I had to wake up and get on with the program.  BUT:  This was something I had planned on doing ahead of time.  

I have heard other credible stories similar to my experience(s).  Same thing though.  Whatever was done was something folks had thought about doing and how to do it ahead of time.  

The Paige story is different.  His concious mind and his subconcious, his left brain and his right brain and his conditioned body all wanted him to do as planned:  lean foward and load the machine gun.  And he could not.  COULD NOT.   COULD NOT.   He was frozen in an upright position until that Japanese  took aim
and his head and face and touched his trigger. Then Paiges body went foward and thirty rounds went where he had been.   Additionally, he inserted the belt, cranked the charging handle twice and got into firing position while falling foward. This latter 
event might, or might not, be within the realm
of unaided human capabilities.  CAn&#039;t say for sure.

However, the subterfuge of making himself an irresitble and un-missable target and then moving out of the way at the last possible 
millisecond was not of Mitchel Paige&#039;s doing.  Every fiber of his being was concentrating on and trying to do something else.   What he did do was the result of a
non-human intervention.   

Want to call it &quot;Divine Intervention&quot;.  Sure suits my pistol.  How about yours?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Karen Yvonne.</p>
<p>I am convinced that what saved Mitchell Paige was in, but not of, this world.</p>
<p>Men in combat, and under other stressful conditions do do things without conciously thinking about them.  </p>
<p>I myself have come fully awake while changing magazines.  I had grabbed the weapon on bipod and fired two long low bursts traversing the area in front of me without knowing what I was doing except that I had to wake up and get on with the program.  BUT:  This was something I had planned on doing ahead of time.  </p>
<p>I have heard other credible stories similar to my experience(s).  Same thing though.  Whatever was done was something folks had thought about doing and how to do it ahead of time.  </p>
<p>The Paige story is different.  His concious mind and his subconcious, his left brain and his right brain and his conditioned body all wanted him to do as planned:  lean foward and load the machine gun.  And he could not.  COULD NOT.   COULD NOT.   He was frozen in an upright position until that Japanese  took aim<br />
and his head and face and touched his trigger. Then Paiges body went foward and thirty rounds went where he had been.   Additionally, he inserted the belt, cranked the charging handle twice and got into firing position while falling foward. This latter<br />
event might, or might not, be within the realm<br />
of unaided human capabilities.  CAn&#8217;t say for sure.</p>
<p>However, the subterfuge of making himself an irresitble and un-missable target and then moving out of the way at the last possible<br />
millisecond was not of Mitchel Paige&#8217;s doing.  Every fiber of his being was concentrating on and trying to do something else.   What he did do was the result of a<br />
non-human intervention.   </p>
<p>Want to call it &#8220;Divine Intervention&#8221;.  Sure suits my pistol.  How about yours?</p>
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		<title>By: Karen Yvonne</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2009/07/14/who-saved-gi-joe/comment-page-3/#comment-62153</link>
		<dc:creator>Karen Yvonne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 08:04:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=5039#comment-62153</guid>
		<description>Scientific inquiry is a wonderful thing but, in line with mankind&#039;s tendency to arrogance and hubris, it tries to claim &lt;b&gt;everything&lt;/b&gt; for itself.  Nature is all there is, it says.  Everything has a natural explanation.  When scientific evidence points to the universe as having a set beginning in time and space, a Big Bang, still there couldn&#039;t have been a cause, it just caused itself.  When scientists discover the mind-boggling complexity of a single cell and it becomes difficult to explain away the astronomical odds of this being so by random chance, then the odds are conveniently reduced to more reasonably manageable levels by positing the existence of an infinite number of parallel universes.  If there are still many things that science is unable to explain, it&#039;s only because science hasn&#039;t progressed that far yet.  But it will in the future, so, HAVE FAITH!  Have faith in the physical; there is no metaphysical.  There is only the natural; there is no supernatural.  There is only the material; there is no immaterial.  There are no miracles.

Except, there are experiences like Mitchell Paige&#039;s.

&quot;The part of the story he [Paige] held back was that something unseen on that hill helped him... &#039;I never wanted to relate this experience to anyone, as I did not want to ever have anyone question it.&#039;&quot;

He didn&#039;t want anyone to question it because it was sacred.  Science can&#039;t go there, even if it tries to go there for purposes of discrediting these accounts.  Could Paige believe that, in his time of crisis, he suddenly &quot;remembered&quot; how to become superhuman?  Could he believe his survival was due to some optimal interaction between his left brain and his right brain?  Is he going to bend over backwards to accomodate his experience to some farfetched theory?  No, he knew what he knew, and he kept it to himself all those years because of all those who, as Luke 16:31 puts it, &quot;will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Scientific inquiry is a wonderful thing but, in line with mankind&#8217;s tendency to arrogance and hubris, it tries to claim <b>everything</b> for itself.  Nature is all there is, it says.  Everything has a natural explanation.  When scientific evidence points to the universe as having a set beginning in time and space, a Big Bang, still there couldn&#8217;t have been a cause, it just caused itself.  When scientists discover the mind-boggling complexity of a single cell and it becomes difficult to explain away the astronomical odds of this being so by random chance, then the odds are conveniently reduced to more reasonably manageable levels by positing the existence of an infinite number of parallel universes.  If there are still many things that science is unable to explain, it&#8217;s only because science hasn&#8217;t progressed that far yet.  But it will in the future, so, HAVE FAITH!  Have faith in the physical; there is no metaphysical.  There is only the natural; there is no supernatural.  There is only the material; there is no immaterial.  There are no miracles.</p>
<p>Except, there are experiences like Mitchell Paige&#8217;s.</p>
<p>&#8220;The part of the story he [Paige] held back was that something unseen on that hill helped him&#8230; &#8216;I never wanted to relate this experience to anyone, as I did not want to ever have anyone question it.&#8217;&#8221;</p>
<p>He didn&#8217;t want anyone to question it because it was sacred.  Science can&#8217;t go there, even if it tries to go there for purposes of discrediting these accounts.  Could Paige believe that, in his time of crisis, he suddenly &#8220;remembered&#8221; how to become superhuman?  Could he believe his survival was due to some optimal interaction between his left brain and his right brain?  Is he going to bend over backwards to accomodate his experience to some farfetched theory?  No, he knew what he knew, and he kept it to himself all those years because of all those who, as Luke 16:31 puts it, &#8220;will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: A &#8216;miracle&#8217; saved Guadalcanal hero? - Techlog</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2009/07/14/who-saved-gi-joe/comment-page-3/#comment-62134</link>
		<dc:creator>A &#8216;miracle&#8217; saved Guadalcanal hero? - Techlog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 05:17:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=5039#comment-62134</guid>
		<description>[...] in General on Jul.15, 2009 Richard Fernandez: One of the actual models for the Hasboro action figure GI Joe was Marine Medal of Honor winner [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] in General on Jul.15, 2009 Richard Fernandez: One of the actual models for the Hasboro action figure GI Joe was Marine Medal of Honor winner [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Tamquam Leo Rugiens</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2009/07/14/who-saved-gi-joe/comment-page-3/#comment-62117</link>
		<dc:creator>Tamquam Leo Rugiens</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 00:32:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=5039#comment-62117</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;49. Chiral:

Whatever kept him alive failed to save thousands of equally human men around him. If it were something other than luck and guts, then the intervention appears to have taken sides, which is disturbing.&lt;/i&gt;

I&#039;ll wager that there are among Japanese survivors those who hold similar stories in their hearts.  Why one is chosen at this moment rather than another is not ours to ken.  But in the end all die.  For myself I can say that am surprised to be alive today.  I can&#039;t explain it except to say that I was protected to accomplish something unknowable to me.  When that is done I will be released from my duty.  In this I am in nowise unique, it is the common destiny of all men.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>49. Chiral:</p>
<p>Whatever kept him alive failed to save thousands of equally human men around him. If it were something other than luck and guts, then the intervention appears to have taken sides, which is disturbing.</i></p>
<p>I&#8217;ll wager that there are among Japanese survivors those who hold similar stories in their hearts.  Why one is chosen at this moment rather than another is not ours to ken.  But in the end all die.  For myself I can say that am surprised to be alive today.  I can&#8217;t explain it except to say that I was protected to accomplish something unknowable to me.  When that is done I will be released from my duty.  In this I am in nowise unique, it is the common destiny of all men.</p>
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		<title>By: buddy larsen</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2009/07/14/who-saved-gi-joe/comment-page-3/#comment-62109</link>
		<dc:creator>buddy larsen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 23:59:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=5039#comment-62109</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;And Ann Sothern, who was sooooooo beautiful&lt;/i&gt;

something about those 40s women --healthy as horses --off the farm toned-up, natural food naturally, those drive ya crazy hairstyles and dresses, rangy movement and posture. really shows up to a TCM insomniac. by the shank of the 50s, something was different --the same basics, but more self-conscious, less open. styles more tamped down.  i know, styles and fashions are just that --but &#039;the medium is the message&#039; --</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>And Ann Sothern, who was sooooooo beautiful</i></p>
<p>something about those 40s women &#8211;healthy as horses &#8211;off the farm toned-up, natural food naturally, those drive ya crazy hairstyles and dresses, rangy movement and posture. really shows up to a TCM insomniac. by the shank of the 50s, something was different &#8211;the same basics, but more self-conscious, less open. styles more tamped down.  i know, styles and fashions are just that &#8211;but &#8216;the medium is the message&#8217; &#8211;</p>
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		<title>By: Doug</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2009/07/14/who-saved-gi-joe/comment-page-2/#comment-62095</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 22:46:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=5039#comment-62095</guid>
		<description>Miller had a guest whose mom was sent to one of the islands with the USO.
There was a severe shortage of mechanics - she was recruited to become one.
Continued to practice the trade when she returned home.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Miller had a guest whose mom was sent to one of the islands with the USO.<br />
There was a severe shortage of mechanics &#8211; she was recruited to become one.<br />
Continued to practice the trade when she returned home.</p>
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		<title>By: Doug</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2009/07/14/who-saved-gi-joe/comment-page-2/#comment-62092</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 22:39:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=5039#comment-62092</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0035664/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Bataan (1943)&lt;/a&gt;

Rather than try to show the entire evacuation and abandonment of the Phillipines, which would be perhaps overwhelmingly depressing, the film-makers decided to focus on one small, fictional incident that could, in effect, stand in for everything else. They chose wisely. What happens is that we watch a group of soldiers defend and then destroy a bridge, so as to slow down the Japanese army&#039;s advance, if only by a few hours, to buy precious time for everyone else. None of these men wants to be a hero. They&#039;re all stuck there, and would rather be someplace else. While some are more aggressive than others, no one is wholly brave; and though there is a good deal of nervousness and occasional cowardice, they all pull together admirably in the end.

Though filmed on the Culver City lot, the film cleverly and expressionistic ally suggests a tropical environment. As the story progresses the jungle gets foggier. It was never too inviting to begin with; by the movie&#039;s end it is absolutely forbidding.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0035664/" rel="nofollow">Bataan (1943)</a></p>
<p>Rather than try to show the entire evacuation and abandonment of the Phillipines, which would be perhaps overwhelmingly depressing, the film-makers decided to focus on one small, fictional incident that could, in effect, stand in for everything else. They chose wisely. What happens is that we watch a group of soldiers defend and then destroy a bridge, so as to slow down the Japanese army&#8217;s advance, if only by a few hours, to buy precious time for everyone else. None of these men wants to be a hero. They&#8217;re all stuck there, and would rather be someplace else. While some are more aggressive than others, no one is wholly brave; and though there is a good deal of nervousness and occasional cowardice, they all pull together admirably in the end.</p>
<p>Though filmed on the Culver City lot, the film cleverly and expressionistic ally suggests a tropical environment. As the story progresses the jungle gets foggier. It was never too inviting to begin with; by the movie&#8217;s end it is absolutely forbidding.</p>
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		<title>By: Doug</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2009/07/14/who-saved-gi-joe/comment-page-2/#comment-62091</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 22:38:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=5039#comment-62091</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0035770/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Cry &#039;Havoc&#039; (1943)&lt;/a&gt;

&#039;Cry Havoc&#039; is Richard Thorp&#039;s 1943 film about the courageous women Army nurses and volunteers on Bataan during WWII. 

Margaret Sullavan is wonderful as Lt. Smith, an Army nurse secretly married against the rules to an officer on Bataan. She is suffering from malignant malaria, but refuses to leave Bataan for treatment, wanting to be near her husband, but also unwilling to desert the overworked nurses and volunteers. Sullavan was always great at suffering nobly on film (as in &#039;Three Comrades,&#039; 1938), and again gives a beautiful, moving performance as the dedicated nurse, keeping both her marriage and illness to herself.

Ann Sothern and Joan Blondell share top billing with Sullavan and give terrific support as two of the volunteers. Blondell is funny as the former Vaudeville performer who entertains the other women with a demonstration of her old striptease act. And Ann Sothern, who was sooooooo beautiful, is marvelous as the tough, straight-talking waitress with her sights set on an Army officer, unaware he&#039;s Sullavan&#039;s husband.

The supporting cast includes Fay Bainter, Marsha Hunt, Ella Raines, Heather Angel and Connie Gilcrest, all excellent, and a bit by young Robert Mitchum as a dying soldier.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0035770/" rel="nofollow">Cry &#8216;Havoc&#8217; (1943)</a></p>
<p>&#8216;Cry Havoc&#8217; is Richard Thorp&#8217;s 1943 film about the courageous women Army nurses and volunteers on Bataan during WWII. </p>
<p>Margaret Sullavan is wonderful as Lt. Smith, an Army nurse secretly married against the rules to an officer on Bataan. She is suffering from malignant malaria, but refuses to leave Bataan for treatment, wanting to be near her husband, but also unwilling to desert the overworked nurses and volunteers. Sullavan was always great at suffering nobly on film (as in &#8216;Three Comrades,&#8217; 1938), and again gives a beautiful, moving performance as the dedicated nurse, keeping both her marriage and illness to herself.</p>
<p>Ann Sothern and Joan Blondell share top billing with Sullavan and give terrific support as two of the volunteers. Blondell is funny as the former Vaudeville performer who entertains the other women with a demonstration of her old striptease act. And Ann Sothern, who was sooooooo beautiful, is marvelous as the tough, straight-talking waitress with her sights set on an Army officer, unaware he&#8217;s Sullavan&#8217;s husband.</p>
<p>The supporting cast includes Fay Bainter, Marsha Hunt, Ella Raines, Heather Angel and Connie Gilcrest, all excellent, and a bit by young Robert Mitchum as a dying soldier.</p>
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