85 Comments

1. Standing in the Shadows:

One other thing, that I think is certain, is that the capturing high level terrorists is pretty much done. Now it’s a whole lot easier to simply put a bullet in the little @#$% head.

Nov 25, 2009 - 1:49 pm 2. Josh:

I’m curious why they declined the admiral’s mast.

Of course the entire thing is absurd and offensive, even if they are cleared of all charges, etc. How can the prisoner have any standing? In fact, thinking as I type, I cannot see that he does. If any action is taken against these troops, exactly who is filing it?

Nov 25, 2009 - 1:50 pm 3. 49erDweet:

Win or lose, the SEALS – and by extension all their brothers and sisters under arms – have already lost because of this – and other recent mal-prosecutions. Woe is US.

Nov 25, 2009 - 1:54 pm 4. RagnarD:

More over, this will have the chilling effect on re-enlistments. Who will gamble their freedom for an ungrateful nation?

Under the “Faster, Please” idea – the military officers corps should start resigning and the enlisted ranks letting their times expire. We in the public should find ways to hire ex-service members as priority. Run into trouble with the idiot PC laws? Fine, let them sue. They cannot sue the entire nation.

Go “John Galt” as it were. Enough is enough.

Nov 25, 2009 - 2:02 pm 5. Marty:

At first I was outraged, this coming after the KSM to civilian court decsion, but having read the linked story I don’t know what to think–

The linked story is very strange. It isn’t clear, as I read it, whether the alleged abuse took place during the capture or at some later time after he was detained. Obviously that could make a difference.

Also, the article mentions a bloody lip but says the alleged assault was a gut-punch. Hmmmm.

I’m glad the SEALS lawyered up and I would consider contributing to a defense fund, but the article was really lame and I don’t feel very well-informed by it.

Nov 25, 2009 - 2:11 pm 6. johntgardner:

I would think the three SEALs have refused non-judicial punishment (NJP) and requested a trial by court-martial because the NAVY cannot quietly punish them now.

This is another version of political correctness in the military. These SEALs are putting their collective future on the line to ensure this doesnt go unchallenged.

I cannot know that they think of it in this way but my hat is off to them and my prayers are with them.

S/F
JTG

Nov 25, 2009 - 2:14 pm 7. cas:

This is another symptom of Political Correctness run rampant in the military; MAJ Hasan is a further tragic example of what this mind-set is doing to our troops, and their espirit de corps.
I don’t blame them for refusing NJP; they don’t believe they have done anything wrong, but instead have finally paid an outstanding debt leftover from Fallujah (April, 2004)
The men and women of our Armed Forces are dedicated to their mission; the problem is that their C-in-C appears to be much less dedicated, to their mission, or to them. When they percieve that their commanders no longer support them, the US as a country is in deep trouble…

Nov 25, 2009 - 2:20 pm 8. wretchard:

Marty,

True. It’s a badly written article. Watching Graham and Holder, I was struck by Holder’s “it depends”. That means that circumstances and legal status will determine what the trajectory of disposition is. So the journalist probably mixed in a whole lot of detail and folded them into a single story.

Maybe this is the way things have to be. Complicated world, complicated solutions.

Nov 25, 2009 - 2:24 pm 9. programmer:

I agree with RagnarD. At some point, reasonable men will and should just shrug their shoulders and say, “I refuse to play”. When the rulers change the rules without warning and there is no good reason for playing the game, it is time for everyone to ignore the rulers. It may be their turn to lead, but if they don’t do it well and fairly, it is time for someone else to do it,…or tragically, it becomes every man (and woman) for themselves.

Nov 25, 2009 - 2:33 pm 10. Habu:

There is ONE and ONLY ONE person responsible for the current confusion over the “rights” of KSM or OBL or any number of other self proclaimed terrorists who where not in uniform, fought a coalition of forces authorized by the UN, and freely attack civilians worldwide.

barack HUSSIEN obama is that person. A traitor, doubtfully a ligitimate US president, a clear and present danger to almost every aspect of American life, from the military to healthcare to, by way of his two favorite financial proxies, the FED and Goldman Sachs our entire economy.

A prudent man would … … ……!

Those same prudent men would begin being prudent with George Soros and the entire left wing of quislings in this country.

Nov 25, 2009 - 2:42 pm 11. Marcus Aurelius:

That is why Biden’s comments about no need to interrogate Bin Laden did not set me off — I took that as a wink to those who may be in a position to capture him to just put him out of our misery. This case is just more subtle suggestion along those same lines.

Don’t capture these guys just kill them. This is why the Clinton line about not having enough evidence on Bin Laden when The Sudan offered him up, what need, they should have taken off into the desert and capped him.

Nov 25, 2009 - 2:46 pm 12. herb:

SEALS have a right to confront their accuser(s). Camel squeeze does not a good witness make.

Rules for Radicals says “use their rules against them.”

SEALS and Marines and Soldier are learning economic creatures. This story shows that capturing a bad guy carries risks. We’ll miss a lot of good intel because the risks to the individual outweighs the potential benefit of the intel.

Nov 25, 2009 - 2:46 pm 13. luagha:

If the SEALs accept non-judicial punishment (aka NJP, Captain’s Mast) then their careers are over – they will never again advance in rank as a SEAL at minimum. They will probably be washed out of the SEAL program as well because Special ops doesn’t let anyone continue with black marks on their record. (They have people fighting to get IN to these units, after all).

So this is their only option in more ways than one. (Not to mention that the chain of custody on the terrorist and the level of evidence states that however he got that fat lip, if he even had one, he didn’t get it in our hands.)

Nov 25, 2009 - 2:48 pm 14. Habu:

8. wretchard

“Maybe this is the way things have to be. Complicated world, complicated solutions.”

Yeah and MAYBE the world is really flat!

Only in the most perverted world is this case as complicated as your last sentence would lead us to believe. Come on man.

Nov 25, 2009 - 2:51 pm 15. kenny komodo:

I’m a retired Chief Petty Officer, United States Navy and I am absolutely outraged at this sham. Perhaps next time the SEALS won’t bother to “capture” one of these animals, they’ll just make sure he’s shot while attempting to escape. That is, if there is a next time. If the government under Obambi continues down this road they won’t be able to find any young men who want to be a Navy SEAL. Why would anyone want to be a highly trained special ops type only to find that he’s going to be prosecuted for carrying out his mission.

Nov 25, 2009 - 2:53 pm 16. Habu:

In “Band of Brothers” Easy Company suffered for a time under the “leadership” of “foxhole Norman”

Where in the hell is the pretend president we have? Cases don’t get more high profile than this , and this isn’t the first one he’s dodged.

muslim Hussein o, USA’s coward and islams defender.

Nov 25, 2009 - 3:03 pm 17. wretchard:

“Maybe this is the way things have to be. Complicated world, complicated solutions.”

I was half sarcastic when I wrote that but only half because I really wonder whether we are ever going to be able to get back to a simpler world. As much as half the population may be politically correct and as a practical matter this means that a lot activity now has to be shrouded in lies, half-truths, evasions and packaging.

It shouldn’t be. But it is. So we’re doing the complicated thing of trying to change the politics so that rationality can prevail. Yet for a time to come, maybe at least until 2012, Eric Holder and his merry men are going to write the rules.

Nov 25, 2009 - 3:04 pm 18. Habu:

17. wretchard
“I was half sarcastic when I wrote that but only half because I really wonder whether we are ever going to be able to get back to a simpler world.”

W, I know you are under constaints that prevent you from writing what you would otherwise write, but you and I both know that we’re not getting back to a simpler world without a massive amount of killing.

There are too many “nations”, and movements who have NO interest in human freedoms, especially the ones we cherish.

War is the way of the world, peace just a pause between the carnage, and it will continue that way until man kills himself off.

Any other reading is just a fairey tale.

Nov 25, 2009 - 3:13 pm 19. Cannoneer No. 4:

This is the kind of chicken excrement that will drive many of the high-speed, low-drag operators out in disgust and exasperation.

Where will they go in this economy?

Whose side will they be on when The Regime needs help suppressing all us bitter clingers whose legs don’t tingle?

Nov 25, 2009 - 3:29 pm 20. Charles:

This is just a warm up for KSM

Nov 25, 2009 - 3:41 pm 21. Habu:

19. Cannoneer No. 4:
“Whose side will they be on when The Regime needs help suppressing all us bitter clingers whose legs don’t tingle?”

I had to smile at wretchards #17….
“Yet for a time to come, maybe at least until 2012, Eric Holder and his merry men are going to write the rules.”

I had the same thought you expressed. At rhe rate Hussien o is destroying this country it takes either a certain ennui or naivete to believe we’ll get to 2012 without a major domestic upheaval…..2012….giv’in odds W?

Nov 25, 2009 - 3:41 pm 22. LFMayor:

odd thing here folks… I got an active “click to edit” for Habu’s post at number 21. 5 mins remaining as I type this.

on the upside, that would be a really cool alt personality, but in reality are there some technical difficulties going on right now?

Nov 25, 2009 - 3:52 pm 23. Voltimand:

Okay, here’s how I see the problem–and I’m by no means original in this take on the uses of civilian courts to fight a foreign war with.

In the case of a civilian trial, the assumption is of innocence until proven guilty. In the case of a war which is a declared war–that’s what making it “declared” comes down to–the assumption on the battlefield is that an “enemy combatant” is guilty until proven “innocent” of the intent to kill you. That’s why in the case of a suspected criminal taken into custory he can’t be shot on sight–because he is innocent until proven guilty (with all the other Miranda, etc. rights that come along with that presumption). Treating people whose guilt is already a foregone conclusion because of the evident declared intents and consequences of their actions are out there for all to see–or not see, as in the case of the WTC–as if they were not guilty, as if their guilt was yet to be determined by a jury verdict, is logically nonsensical.

As Powerline has already made clear in its analysis of this case, there is the distinct possibility that these perps may walk free if the jury declares them innocent. Then, in that connection, we get the statement by this Holder imbecile that in no way are these perps going to go free–the government will continue to hold them. Why will the government continue to do so in that contingency? If it does so, then the trial will have been fundamentally compromised. The choice of a NYC trial in civilian court is as pristine a nonsensical contradiction as you’re ever going to get outside of Lewis Carroll’s “Alice in Wonderland.”

What the Obama administration is doing is attempting to circumvent the waging of a war against self-declared terrorists who have already positively crowded the internet with what constitute substantive declarations of war against the U. S.

Either Holder and his ilk are terminally legally stupid, or they are traitors.

Nov 25, 2009 - 3:53 pm 24. mac:

I’m glad about this issue arising. Please don’t misunderstand; I don’t think the SEALS did anything at all wrong even if they did punch this guy. He’s damned lucky to be alive and probably shouldn’t be.

That said, I want everyone in the U.S. military to see just how Obama and his coterie think of them. I want the military forces of this nation to understand deep in their hearts and minds that this man has neither their, nor their country’s, best interests at heart.

I want this because I have seen in Iraq how our military could crush an insurgency trying to overthrow a government. My greatest concern is that we the people, in America, may have to take up arms against this government to retain our rights and defend ourselves against tyranny. If we do, I don’t want to see the united weight of the U.S. military opposing those strong and smart enough to take the necessary action. I want them questioning, deeply questioning, any orders that come to suppress dissent or quell opposition.

Obama hates them–and us–and would love to see the two groups he so despises start shooting at each other. The more that issues like this are widely publicized, the less likely it is that troops will act without seriously thinking about the legitimacy of THIS government’s authority.

Our troops swear an oath to protect the government against all enemies, foreign or domestic. I don’t think the people who put that oath in place ever envisioned that the domestic enemies would have been in such positions of power as they now occupy. Because of that, we are now facing an unprecedented situation requiring formerly unimaginable actions.

We all need to be seriously deciding where our personal “red lines” are, because this government is coming precariously close to crossing some of the ones our Constitution clearly enumerates. I want our military thinking about them as well. This issue will make a lot of them either start or continue that process.

Nov 25, 2009 - 3:54 pm 25. Thrasymachus:

As the original Thrasymachus said, in the end justice is only the powerful doing unto the unpowerful as they see fit. Don’t for a minute pin this on Holder or Obama- this is admirals and possibly captains whose cherished dream is to be cabin boys on the USS Obama.

It occured to me a few years ago in the midst of my legal troubles that the purpose of the justice system is not to deliver justice, but the appearance of justice acceptable to the mass of people. This will *not* appear to be justice to the mass of people, and will draw negative attention to the cabin boy wannabes, so it will probably go away.

Nov 25, 2009 - 4:06 pm 26. Habu:

And the clock keeps ticking……

* The gun and ammunition manufacturing industry in the United States has over 200 companies producing billions of dollars in annual revenues. This huge manufacturing base cannot fulfill demand quickly enough. The demand for guns and ammunition has hit a record high and the gun industry cannot produce enough bullets to keep up with orders.

American’s are arming themselves to the teeth!

* In the past year, 100 new armed militia groups have been formed, as militia members have doubled in numbers. Federal authorities are gravely concerned about the “uptick in militia activities.” One federal authority recently said, “All it’s lacking is a spark. I think it’s only a matter of time before you see threats and violence.”

So let’s breakdown these numbers.

You have a population of 50 million people who are in desperate need of money, they most likely have no health insurance and can’t afford to get healthcare or help of any kind. Part of this population probably also has loved ones who can’t get life sustaining medical treatments, or loved ones that have already died due to lack of costly medical treatment. The clock is ticking loud for these people and they are running out of options fast, and time delayed is time closer to death.

While the richest one percent have never had it so good, a significant percentage of the US population now has firsthand experience in this. Millions upon millions of Americans are poor, broke, struggling, starving, desperate… and armed.
Now the current crop of idiots running and robbing the country are prosecuting the muilitary with metronomic regularity.

We are sitting on a powder keg!

We are now witnessing the critical unraveling of US society.

** I woulds say this to the Patriots….do not join any organization…just stay informed and READY. It’s better to stay in the tall weeds until the time is right ….and you’ll know when the time is right…..obama HUSSEIN will declare mecca the mid eastern White House.

Nov 25, 2009 - 4:07 pm 27. Habu:

25. Thrasymachus

Might I suggest you find another philosopher from which to gain your knowledge. Believe there are better ones than you chose to site.

Nov 25, 2009 - 4:13 pm 28. Limpet6:

A split lip at best? The bad part is I guess he’s alleging it occurred in captivity rather than as part of the initial capture.

I’ve handled a few 1983 police brutality cases. In one my client was photographed after the incident. Once side of his head was so swollen it looked like a purple basketball. The picture actually looked as if it was distorted. In another case the client was kicked so brutally his liver was severed…after he was cuffed. He had not resisted in anyway. The policeman in question liked to watch “the Shield” and wanted to build on his reputation.

I view this as “de minimus non curat lex,” i.e., the law does not deal in trifles. In war, a puffy lip is a trifle.

Note the time period, 2004. Someone realized the circumstances of the Abu Graib scandal were fanning flames and no one in Naval Special Warfare wanted the fire to spread.

Now in 2009, it is finally brought to courtmartial? My guess is someone (perhaps everyone) in the chain of command has been waiting for cooler heads to prevail. This has little to do with the Great Apologizer, other than perhaps timing and the timing is perfect.

I think they will. Anyone remember seeing a picture of the terrorist captured at Rome Airport in the early ’80’s. Looked like he’d done 15 rounds with Jake LaMotta. They must have captured him and let him escape maybe 10 times.

Nov 25, 2009 - 4:22 pm 29. buck smith:

I will contribute to the defense of the SEALS. I will be the milbloggers set one up. To try these guys for punching this low-life in face is the height of stupidity.

Nov 25, 2009 - 4:28 pm 30. Doc99:

George Patton, call your office!

Nov 25, 2009 - 4:48 pm 31. Habu:

28. Limpet6
“This has little to do with the Great Apologizer”

This has everything to do with the president. He sets the tone for his administration and choses those of like minds to fill the policy jobs, the upper military jobs, and all other semi important jobs. The buck stops with him. It’s HIS responsibility and his minions impliment HIS policies.

Please , don’t try to whiz a 50mph softball past any major league players anytime soon, you’ll simply embarass yourself.

Nov 25, 2009 - 4:54 pm 32. 907ie:

NO PRISONERS!

Didn’t we do that once before?
With fantastic results!

Nov 25, 2009 - 5:07 pm 33. Gordon:

How it should have gone: “Yes, sir; the guy got snotty with me and I slugged him in the mouth. Served him right for those poor SOBs in Fallujah.”

CO: “I didn’t hear that. What I heard was he fell down and that’s the way I wrote it up.”

Nov 25, 2009 - 5:25 pm 34. Cannoneer No. 4:

Navy SEALs Charged for Punching Terrorist Behind Fallujah Atrocity

RUSH: So let me cut to the chase here. So what I think I hear you saying is the blowback that you mentioned is, this is payback for the SEALs violating the ROE on this captain of the Maersk; and this is the chain of command reasserting itself, letting everybody knows who’s boss and what’s going to happen to you if you don’t follow orders?

CALLER: That is my rather experienced opinion — and, frankly, the opinion of others. I am very close to the special operations community here in North Carolina, and, you know, that opinion is surfacing. These people are very vindictive — and you have to understand, Mr. Limbaugh, you’re very pro-military, and you always say wonderful things about our people in service, and we greatly appreciate it. But I do have to say this, and I’d like to make this one point. I’ve had two sons, by the way. My two eldest sons have done multiple tours in Afghanistan and Iraq. The military of today is not the military that fought World War II. It is not even the military that fought the first Gulf War. It is a military that has been thoroughly politicized. It is a military that is suffering the fallout of Patricia Schroeder’s ridiculous, politically correct policies that still have great power and sway in the military. And I’m just going to have to tell you: I do not mean to impugn the junior personnel in the military, the line troops, the junior officers. I’m not talking about these people. These people are doing a fine job. They’re outstanding people. But the senior ranking, the civilian and senior ranking military personnel are thoroughly indoctrinated and on board with this politically correct agenda that’s in the military.

I truncated Greg in North Carolina’s comment. Read the whole thing.

Nov 25, 2009 - 5:33 pm 35. bogie wheel:

Our troops swear an oath to protect the government against all enemies, foreign or domestic.

They swear to protect and defend the Constitution, not the government. Let’s hope enough of ‘em understand the difference.

Several threads back, on the subject of one of TOTUS’ speeches (it may have been in reference to Ft. Hood), I mentioned that 0 was giving the distinct impression that he is out to grind the military under with defeat and humiliation, and that that would be a necessary step to bringing his “civilian national security force” a few steps closer to reality.

This maneuver is of the same flavor. Demoralization, career destruction, personal destruction through the legal system. Just think if substantial numbers of officers & senior enlisted did take RagnarD’s advice by getting out, leaving the military a pale ghost of its former self. Would that not be an excellent argument for cranking up a “civilian national security force”?

In all honesty I don’t know what strategic thinking, if any, was behind 0’s remark on the CNSF. But that he thought it in the first place was blood-curdling enough. And that this way of thinking hangs in the background, while he bleeds our troops at every opportunity, in virtually every way conceivable, stinks of something quite foul.

Nov 25, 2009 - 5:36 pm 36. Habu:

35. bogie wheel

You are onto it.

But the flip side is that with the real talent now belonging to the Oath Takers and other groups out side the services the leftover’s won’t stand a chance at defending what’s coming at them because they are PC, not warriors.

I personally know regimental size units just waiting in the tall weeds. And they have ALL the equipment , or can get it quickly. And then there are always those intrepid souls who are “stay behinds” who facilitate operations.

Nov 25, 2009 - 6:03 pm 37. Cannoneer No. 4:

Stay Behinds

Nov 25, 2009 - 6:13 pm 38. Limpet6:

Habu

Limpet6 may know a good deal more about SEALs than you or the Great Apologizer. Let’s see who comes ahead with the American public. It normally doesn’t take five years to sit a courtmartial.

ST-1 RVN ‘71
NSWG-1 AFG ‘02

Nov 25, 2009 - 6:17 pm 39. Josh:

Just a few facts, if they’re accurate – that the SEALS arrested the guy and then TURNED HIM OVER TO THE IRAQIs. In Iraqi custody he made accusations, which they (I presume) forwarded to the US authorities. So, the charges are a political and diplomatic football. Puts a different light on it, slightly. Not really any better, but even so.

Nov 25, 2009 - 6:19 pm 40. Subotai Bahadur:

#24 Mac

Our troops swear an oath to protect the government against all enemies, foreign or domestic.

With all due respect, I am extremely happy that you are wrong in that. Our troops swear to preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign or domestic; not the government. That Oath is one of the few hopeful signs for the future of our poor besieged country, and I look to the Oathkeepers within my family and without as our redemption, our light in the East on the third day, dispelling the long night.

I am hearing rumors, unconfirmed as yet but based on overheard arrogant statements by some of the people involved; that for at least some branches of Homeland Security the oath has been changed. To your formulation. If that turns out to be true, alea iacta est, and we just wait to see what spots land face up.

As far as our SEAL’s [and they are ours far more than they belong to those who hate them] are concerned, I wrote about this incident elsewhere:

————————–

“Just a thought. I have dealt with a number of felons during and after the moment of apprehension for one evil deed or another. It is far from unusual for them to allege brutality during the process of apprehension, and a split lip is one of the easiest things to do to yourself in such a case. There ARE ways of differentiating between self inflicted and otherwise.

And I will go with the thought that the SEAL’s I have had the honor and pleasure of knowing would have inflicted much more trauma even with just one strike.”

–break–

—————————–

I will agree with #6 johntgardner and continue with this from the same piece:

—————————–
“It was absolutely vital to take this to a General Court-Martial. But even if acquitted completely and honorably; in today’s ticket punching military, their careers are over. While SpecOps personnel are less concerned about career over duty and honor; the rest of the chain of command frequently has the priorities reversed. When facing the “up or out” decision, they are going to be pushed out. Further, even if they were not in the zone for consideration for being pushed out; you can be sure that the chain of command does NOT want them to remain in the service as a living example of someone who did the right thing and beat the system that tried to screw them for it. Doing the right thing, honoring Oaths, etc. scares the “wee-wee” out of politicians and REMF’s.

Rest assured, even if acquitted, they will pay the cost. Further, to be honest there is such a thing as command influence at courts martial. Look at what has happened to the rule of law in this country since January. Leave aside the matters of what financiers refer to as “regime risk” that have been introduced into civil and commercial law. Look at the KSM trials, where everything seems to have been rigged to the benefit of the terrorists, including the lawyers involved on both prosecution and defense. And where the administration is trying to say simultaneously; it will be an honest trial, and if they are found not guilty we promise to ignore it. Look at what happened at Fort Hood. How many here have faith that the system will be allowed to function without overt or covert interference by the politicians?

Now look at these SEAL’s. These charges would not have been brought without approval of someone in the administration. Even the most politically tone-deaf staff weenie knows that anything to do with charging troops with mistreating prisoners is both political dynamite and something that can match the political desires of the administration depending on which way the wind is blowing; and it is safer to refer it up higher rather than make the decision themselves. Their courts martial will take place in relative anonymity. If and when the administration screws with the trial of Major Hasan; at least the non-state controlled media will report it. But who is watching this case, outside of their brothers in arms and a few of us?”

———————————–

And I will further agree with #19 Cannoneer #4 and # 26 Habu.

I am a wordy bugger. I can curse in English, German, two dialects of Chinese, and have a few phrases of the kind that start fights in some other languages. I am not at all used to finding myself at a loss for appropriate words. But after hearing this …….

Subotai Bahadur

Nov 25, 2009 - 6:25 pm 41. Limpet6:

*

Nov 25, 2009 - 6:40 pm 42. Walt:

So how, one feels,
Can Navy Seals
Those paragons of virtue
Have such as those
Who punch a nose
While trying to just search you
I mean to say
That every day
We hear of such rude manners
From Muslim men
Who then again
Are forced to see the banners
Of western states
Fly where it grates
On Muslim pride and station
So he’s excused
He’s been abused
As well as his whole nation
So that is why
The courts must try
The miscreants who slugged him
We can’t forget
We cannot let
Go free the man who mugged him
So when we catch
A slimy batch
We should not punch or harm them
Just shoot them all
And watch them fall
Just watch but don’t alarm them
In many ways
The good guy pays
He’s done his job and duty
And now he needs
For his good deeds
To pay a lawyer’s booty

Nov 25, 2009 - 6:53 pm 43. Cannoneer No. 4:

Kazakhstan Sunkar super bad SWAT cops on National Geographic channel’s Shadow Soldiers may be of interest to many on this thread.

Nov 25, 2009 - 7:16 pm 44. whiskey:

Wretchard, what this means is a mass slaughter of Muslims is ever more certain.

Lets review: not even Clinton’s fantasy of “black clad ninjas roping out of Helicopters” is sustainable because SEALs are charged with punching a top terrorist who killed Americans. If true, its commendable. If not, a gigantic waste of time.

What this means, is that SEALs will simply opt out as much as possible of any confrontation with the enemy, period. The message by the PC crowd has been sent loud and clear.

BUT … the other side will not stop fighting. At a minimum we can expect more sudden Jihads from Muslims (lets be honest, pretty much most Muslims support it, here and abroad, and those that don’t keep their mouths shut). More likely, a lot of Bombay attacks, with mass slaughters in the hundreds as terrorists demand PC kid glove treatment (and GET IT) immediately after their kills. Probably, in a few years, the nuking of NYC and DC. With other cities threatened or killed.

Now, America is a big place. And the White Middle class if it comes down to it will do what they have to in order to protect their lives. If that means suspension of the Constitution with most of the Federal Govt dead anyway, and military rule, and simply killing every Muslim, so be it.

There is not the question of half-measures governed by PC nonsense. There is either an effective response that prevents mass killing by Muslims, or not. If there is not an effective response, people will demand they be safe before they demand PC. And there will be no, none, zilch, zero governors hitting the safety break. If it comes down to a game of mass killing, Muslims mass-killing Americans, then American can and will play that game to its logical conclusion: wiping out every, and all Muslims.

The Kaiser was said to have remarked after WWI, that “this is not what I wanted.” But he got it, sure enough. So too, the PC crowd will get something. Even if it is not what they wanted.

I think part of it is arrogance, that America and themselves are so rich and powerful, that they can never be defeated. As long as they can keep up that lie, they hold power. The minute that lie is exposed as a lie, they lose all power and are cast out (they know it too).

Nov 25, 2009 - 7:34 pm 45. RWE:

Luagah #13 and Cannoneer #34:

Don’t overlook that this could be blowback in the other direction. Our military has put up with an incredible amount of crap from the legal types, from the Tailhook Convention right on down to today.

My tactic would be to dump the mess back in the legal types’ laps. I did this before. When the command HQ JAGs came up with an absolutely stupid policy I told them that from now on all such cases would be referred up to them. Let them get dirty and do all the paperwork from their own stupidity.

So the “Discovery” phase works both ways. Put it all out in the open. The legal types will look stupid and you can bet the SEALs will not.

Nov 25, 2009 - 8:03 pm 46. Habu:

38. Limpet6

USMC67-70
CIA 70- Angola, Rhodesia, SR-71, Saigon Evac, South Africa, Laos,Cambodia CORDS …need some ,come get some. TS and Codeword.. Project Jennifer…the list is impressive.

Nov 25, 2009 - 8:27 pm 47. Habu:

38. Limpet6

The radar gun had that last one pegged at 37 mph … what next..T-ball?***

*** uncalled for. I’m sure you’re a great chap.

Nov 25, 2009 - 8:37 pm 48. Habu:

Afraid To Kill

‘Fighting’ terror with wishful thinking
It’s not true that the only good terrorist is a dead terrorist. Even dead terrorists aren’t good. But at least they’re dead. And that helps. But political correctness has possessed Washington. It’s so bad that even Defense Secretary Robert Gates, who’s done a great job in many other respects, parrots the cliché that “we can’t kill our way out of this.”

Well, folks, there’s no other way out of this all-or-nothing struggle with fanatics. Three thousand years of history teach that there’s no alternative — none — to killing fanatics in large numbers when your enemies are ablaze with religious zeal.

What Gates and countless others really mean is that we’re unwilling to kill our way out of this assault on our civilization. So the terrorists keep on killing us.

We tell ourselves that one more charm offensive, one more inept aid program, one more surge of troops who aren’t allowed to fight will persuade terrorists on a murderous mission from their god to lay down their arms and run for alderman.

We refuse to see the world through terrorist eyes. Instead, we superimpose liberal-arts-faculty values on bloodthirsty zealots, asking what we’ve done to make them so angry.

The result? We grant captured terrorists more rights and better treatment than nonviolent offenders in a US county jail. We cater to them at the gentrified prison at Guantanamo (yet the global media insist that Gitmo’s just a big torture chamber).

We tell ourselves we’ll impress our enemies with our humanitarianism. But how many Gitmo prisoners have turned pacifist or expressed regrets? If you were convinced that you were doing God’s will, would you be budged by a captor who gives you priority health care, a religiously correct diet, special worship privileges and free legal counsel? Allah has made his enemies weak . . .

The laws of war provide for the battlefield execution of illegal combatants — those who refuse to wear uniforms or identifying insignia or who commit atrocities. Instead, we give them flu shots before American citizens can get them.

When a madcap ideologue such as Attorney General Eric Holder tells Congress we mustn’t be afraid to try terrorists in our judicial system, he gets it exactly wrong. The terrorists believe we’re afraid to kill them. And they’re right.

So we’ll get the upcoming propaganda bonanza of the trial of 9/11 mastermind Khalid Sheik Mohammed and his terrorist barbershop quartet. And we’ll squander hundreds of millions of dollars on special security precautions in Manhattan. The inevitable outcome? We’ll make heroes of the terrorists throughout the Muslim world.

Meanwhile, down in Texas, terrorist assassin Maj. Nidal Hasan’s lawyer is already making a mockery of our judicial system. Hasan will become a terrorist icon, too.

And even if Hasan, KSM and the boys are all convicted of multiple counts of premeditated murder, they won’t be executed for many years to come — if ever.

How does this deter fanatical enemies? Our insistence on treating terrorism as shoplifting that got a little out of hand does not protect Americans.

Terrified of the new global reality, Washington refuses to accept that we’re no longer dealing with the political terrorists of the 20th century — some of whom could, indeed, be won over or bought off. We’re now dealing with religious madmen hungry for an apocalypse. And our government and the media scramble to deny that Islam has anything to do with it. The poor terrorists just have grievances.

If Khalid Sheik Mohammed has a heart attack during his trial, he’ll get better health care than most Post readers. Paralyzed from the waist down, Maj. Hasan will get priority on rehab treatment over our vets from Iraq and Afghanistan.

Bring terrorists to Manhattan? They should never have made it to Gitmo.

From Ralph Peters’ latest book “The War After Armageddon.”

Nov 25, 2009 - 8:40 pm 49. Kingston53:

There is no war, on terror or anything else. Just a little inconvenience. The vast majority of Americans feel no real threat. We have used a voluntary military to create a new mercenary class to fight our battles, to do the dirty work. Our military is culturally isolated from the ruling class who could not care less for their effort and blood. For nearly forty years we have allowed the burden of defending this country rest on a small strata of our society. If things don’t change, at some point those who serve and die will wake up to the fact that while they have been hard at work defending and protecting this once great nation, those that stayed behind the lines have trashed the Constitution and looted the treasury. Who will hold the barbarians at bay then?

Nov 25, 2009 - 9:02 pm 50. Lifeofthemind:

1. This is the same Eric Holder who ordered the New Black Panthers, who had plead guilty, to walk after the most blatant case of recorded voter intimidation in 40 years.

2. This is the same Eric Holder that ordered KSM to stand trial in NY, along with 4 other senior terrorists who had already offered to plead guilty before a military tribunal.

3. The consequence of these charges will be that prisoners will not be taken. If any are taken they can not be subject to battlefield interrogation before being mirandized and turned over to the civilian system.

4. The loss of intelligence information will result in Americans being killed.

5. Junior Officers will have to either attempt to carry out the orders of Senior Officers or will cover up for enlisted members who choose not to take prisoners. The result either way will be a breakdown in discipline. That will also cost lives. If the JO confronts his troops he will do so at considerable peril. If he sides with his troops then the integrity of the Chain of Command is destroyed.

It is almost as if the HuffPo conspiracy fantasists of the extreme Left were disappointed to discover that the US military, especially the Special Forces community, really are a disciplined group of professionals who were highly apolitical in their conduct and devoted to upholding civilian authority. Frustrated at not meeting the fascist cabal they had expected they now are proceeding to provoke the troops so as to justify subjecting them to the radical reforms they anticipated enacting. I wonder if they are getting advice from Chavez on how to do this?

Nov 25, 2009 - 10:27 pm 51. toad:

While there are a lot of people who want to get into the SEAls and other SOCOM outfits darn few make it. There is a real shortage of the people who can make it. It takes years to get people up to snuff. Also there are a lot of civilian jobs open for SOCOM types that pay better than the military does. The military has been paying bonuses in attempts to retain these guys.
While the perfumed princes and lawyers that infest the military will try this crap they are going to run into trouble sooner or later with the people who are trying to retain effectives for the mission. It could well be that before the court martial is over the careers ruined will that of some officers. It will be done quietly but odds are it will be done.

Nov 25, 2009 - 10:33 pm 52. RagnarD:

Habu @ 10:

A prudent man would … … ……!

That is why I said “Faster, Please!” The sooner that things come to a head the better. IYKWIM.

Now, I heard in passing that The Won’s (I am going to start calling him The Juan – you have to say it with a bad Mexican accent!) Afghanistan announcement will include withdrawal plans. THAT is going to just mean waiting for de feet. Crikey, wretchard, it is as if some of us were psychic. I predicted elsewhere that it was his Vietnam, IOW, he could not wait to surrender. They will throw warm bodies at this for a time with impossible goals, when the goals are not met then “declare victory” and come home – what is left that is. All the Taliban and OBL/al queda have to do is wait this out. This story can now be changed to read Afghanistan instead of Iraq and change the dates to whatever The Juan says next week.

Habu said:

War is the way of the world, peace just a pause between the carnage, and it will continue that way until man kills himself off.

Would it be from your mouth to all liberals minds. All the rest is ghafla (from Dune – Paul Muah’Dib – “term meaning “distraction”. …. directly from the Arabic where “Ghafla” means anything that distracts one from God.”) The gadfly distraction – a fly buzzing around the ears.

Cannoneer No. 4 @ 19:

Whose side will they be on when The Regime needs help suppressing all us bitter clingers whose legs don’t tingle?

Ours! Checkmate!

mac @ 24:

We all need to be seriously deciding where our personal “red lines” are, because this government is coming precariously close to crossing some of the ones our Constitution clearly enumerates.

Already crossed.

bogie @ 35:

Would that not be an excellent argument for cranking up a “civilian national security force”?

If it were, I think we know how that particular clash would come out. I do not believe that “Brownshirts” will be tolerated in this country. O/T – It is too bad that Josh Whedon picked ‘Browncoats’ for his resistance in Serenity. I am a Browncoat and “I aim to misbehave”.

47. Habu @ 47 to Limpet6 @ 38:

*** uncalled for. I’m sure you’re a great chap.

Limpet – Habu and others here are very civil, even to trolls. Please take heart and do not retreat to the ad hominem, it is uncalled for. State your case and take whatever comes your way. The denizens of the BC are gentlemen all (and gentle ladies).

Nov 25, 2009 - 10:54 pm 53. Josh:

I’m curious that nobody has picked up on the issues I posted above, that the situation seems to be that the prisoner was turned over to the Iraqis, etc.

Does it not matter, or is it just not as fun as projecting the horrors of 0bambus?

(which I don’t doubt, but may not yet all be in play)

Nov 25, 2009 - 11:07 pm 54. twobyfour:

RagnarD/52
I am going to start calling him The Juan – you have to say it with a bad Mexican accent!

Would that be… the Khooyan (cyrilic works better: Хуян)?

Nov 25, 2009 - 11:23 pm 55. Alexis:

There are times when bluster becomes dangerous, particularly when corrupt law enforcement officials seek a pretext to persecute their political opponents.

There are some things I would rather not be aware of, particularly when it seems that some political actors are about to repeat the blunders of the Pontcallec Conspiracy.

I would hope that more people learn the glories of elliptical speech, for ambiguity in language is one of the protections the English language can give to dissenters.

As it is, the planned circus in New York can be turned to the advantage of those who oppose the designs of Soros & Company. Firstly, a legal strategy needs to be put into place. Secondly, any attempt to pervert the American justice system into a terrorist tirade must become a means to rally Americans to the cause of victory. Thirdly, the Left must be shown that it does not monopolize the streets even on turf it regards as its own.

Now, more than ever, the Opposition must show it is committed to military victory abroad against the terrorists and political victory at home against the defeatists. The shrill language of the Left can be used to discredit it. Ed Scultz referred to Senator Lieberman as “Traitor Joe” because this independent senator refuses to toe the line of a Ned Lamont on health care reform. This shrill rhetoric is a sign of weakness, not strength. Many leftists seem to think that if they can’t ram through their entire agenda by 2011, their dreams are finished. With the Tea Parties on the verge of taking the streets away from the hard Left, the Left is feeling a desperation it has not felt in decades.

Quiet confidence can put fear into the hearts of the defeatists, win over the wavering, and hearten allies the world over. Let’s smile. That’s one thing our enemies can’t take away.

Nov 25, 2009 - 11:35 pm 56. buddy larsen:

Covington & Burling LLP, Eric Holder’s law firm, is an international player in the sort of cases that knock systems haywire, in the getting-to-be-familiar Cloward-Piven parasite-eats-host way. Matter of fact, the firm has from the beginning represented many of the Gitmo detainees, including the USS Cole bomber.

What is significant is that Eric Holder’s law firm is what has been holding up the due process through the military tribiunals, for all these years, thus providing the rationale for Holder to do what he is doing, on the grounds that the tribunal approach has ‘done nothing’ about the detainee status.

Eric Holder’s law firm has managed, among other things far more sinister here, to position itself to derive all the profit potential available in the legal system, down to the very last nickel laying on the table. Good Alinskis, using ‘all the power the American system leaves laying around’ to paraphrase the man himself.

So there it is again –the Cloward-Piven mechanism –which is a restatement the basic rule-or-ruin rule famously (& disputedly, natch) stated by Lavrentiy Beria (bolding mine):

To produce a maximum of chaos in the culture of the enemy is our first most important step. Our fruits are grown in chaos, distrust, economic depression and scientific turmoil. At last a weary populace can seek peace only in our offered Communist State, at last only Communism can resolve the problems of the masses.

Obama & crew know exactly what they are doing. Rule or Ruin means exactly that –let ‘em rule or they will ruin you and everything else they can lay their cold hands upon.

Nov 26, 2009 - 12:19 am 57. Charles:

O’s people don’t have until 2112 to shape the direction of this country. They have less than a year.

Nov 26, 2009 - 12:33 am 58. buddy larsen:

http://news.google.com/news?sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-US&oe=utf8&q=eric%20holder’s%20law%20firm&rlz=1I7GGLL_en&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wn

http://www.bing.com/news/search?q=eric+holder’s+law+firm&FORM=BNFD

Some strong stuff sprouting up.

Nov 26, 2009 - 12:47 am 59. Peter Boston:

This is a disturbing story because it demonstrates the feminization of the upper echelons of the Navy hierarchy. No military commander worth his salt would leave his men in the field so unprotected. Every level of command beneath the admiral or whoever made this decision should have resigned in disgust. Any who have not are pipsqueaks and cowards undeserving of the uniform.

The Fates shall not be kind to a people who so easily and so willingly deprecate the virtue of manliness.

Nov 26, 2009 - 12:54 am 60. RagnarD:

2×4:

The Juan is a play on words = The John. As in a woman-of-the-evenings customer. (Phlegm first, then make it sound like ‘one’.)

Latest tonight is The Won is going to Copenhagen to:

Our aim there is … not a partial accord or a political declaration, but rather an accord that covers all the issues in the negotiations and one that has immediate operational effect. – BHO

I really do think he will try and foist this through as an executive order and circumvent the Senate. IOW, violate the Constitution and also violate his oath to “protect and defend” it.

I got an email from some Human Events listserv about impeaching pResident Pantywaist. I do not think we have actual violations of the law, ….. yet. I think they are coming down the line.

Alexis: Why be oblique? They have our names in some file somewhere already. Registered GoP, haunt VRWC blogs, oppose The Won’s policies and have for a couple of years, NRA member. Need I go on? Oh, and Veteran. Old one. As I say above, my line has been crossed long ago. I have nothing left to lose but my life.

Nov 26, 2009 - 1:00 am 61. buddy larsen:

A Thanksgiving Message from the Cagey Bee

Nov 26, 2009 - 1:08 am 62. twobyfour:

Charles/57

O’s people don’t have until 2112 to shape the direction of this country. They have less than a year.

Well, you never know (though I think it’s a typo and you meant 2012). Not a whole century if that was your assessment, an average commie regime lasts about 50 years, until the host is sucked dry so no more parasiting is possible and the land is populated by people having nothing to lose. If 0bots pull a fast one a year from now, they have about 10 years of a shelf life at the most. Then they’ll meet their own personal (or shared) tree.

Nov 26, 2009 - 5:58 am 63. Tom Curley .:

Limpet6 You seem to be into the process more than the reality. I understand civilian courts work in most cases, but it is wrong to hold the military to civilian standard in a combat zone. You deal with a legal process and the military deals with life and death reality. In your process rules trump reality and through the legal process many people that have comitted crimes go free. There is a very big difference between not guilty and innocent. It is bad enough that the rules of engagement are made by PC idiot politicians that could think of punishing these SEALS even if they did punch this man. My opinion which carries no weight is that once someone that is not a member of an opposing army attachs any member of owr military that person should be considered an illegal combatant and shot. There should be no trial and no surrender for these people and I use ther term people loosely.

Nov 26, 2009 - 6:29 am 64. Andrew:

So I’m thinking – if a team of SEAL’s came to get me, and I got punched in the stomach instead of shot…. I wouldn’t be suing the SEAL’s. I’d be sending them thank-you notes.

I don’t approve of roughing up your captives once they are in your control, but this guy should be grateful for getting punched.

Nov 26, 2009 - 7:44 am 65. buddy larsen:

Twoby/62; and for all who have the experience</a –a special report from Investors Business Daily: a memoir by Svetlana Kunin, an IBD subscriber and retired software developer who lived in the Soviet Union until 1980 and now lives in Connecticut. In the Soviet Union, she was a civil engineer.

Nov 26, 2009 - 7:48 am 66. Limpet6:

Brother Curley

You are right. I’m watching the process and trying to draw some conclusions. I think there is a reason the matter hasn’t come to trial for five years. There is an element to the process that is unusual. My guess is there is sympathy somewhere in the chain-of-command.

Non-uniformed combatants who’ve declared war against the US put themselves into a legal black hole. They are not entitled to the protections of the Geneva Conventions because they do not distinguish themselves from the civilian population, bear arms openly, under command and subject to military discipline. Geneva Protocol 1 43(1). Terrorists play the edge of the legal map and so they should suffer the consequences. The Bush Administration handled that fairly well.

Because they fall outside the Geneva Conventions they are subject to the law of the detaining country, but really we have no law that applies to this sort of situation other than the UCMJ and I question its applicability. Things like notice, Miranda rights, warrants, search and seizure issues, that are hallmarks of our due process, supression of “illegally seized evidence” are ludicrous when attempting to fight a war.

I think the Guantanamo trials should be done by military tribunal. Why advertise are ongoing intelligence efforts to the world? Why think the everyday John Q. Public juror wants to risk his life for the rest of his life?

I carried a carbine with grenade launcher long before I held Black’s Law Dictionary and I read dissention somewhere in the chain of command into this.

A punch in the mouth to a vile provocative prisoner isn’t worth a prosecution. The trouble was Abu Graib — which was worth a prosecution — changed the atmosphere. Someone, somewhere whispered “stall” and someone listened.

Is the Great Apologizer and his minions going to see this very petty prosecution through? I wonder. These guys watch the polls and already the country is reacting to the New York trials.

Nov 26, 2009 - 8:08 am 67. Tom Curley .:

Limpet6

Thank you, it is pleasant to get a reasonable response to an opinion. It is also nice to hear from a reasonable lawyer. It just seems that reasonable lawyers are far to rare. It is a shame that some in you profession value ego of common sense. In my opinion most of the problems involved with getting some of these people dealt with is the fault of politicians of both parties. The people in Gitmo should have been released or tried and dealt with years ago. Another option is to call them captured combatants and keep them until the end of hostilities, of forever which ever comes first.

Take care and watch your 6

Nov 26, 2009 - 9:16 am 68. what da ya mean, its too hot?:

Lynn Stewart and the blind sheik thank you for your support AG Holder

(what more needs to be said).

Oh, yeah, speaking of attorneys, I suppose the name ayers and bombing the Pentagon have no relevance to the topic either.

Wadeusaf

Nov 26, 2009 - 9:34 am 69. Mongoose:

Hey Habu, but what do you really think?

Nov 26, 2009 - 9:42 am 70. sirius_sir:

The supposedly second-rate system of justice represented by a military court is more than adequate for Navy SEAL heroes but not for the terrorist KSM.

Who deserves the best this country can offer?

Don’t ask, don’t tell.

Nov 26, 2009 - 9:43 am 71. Papa Ray:

Something to read and consider on this Thanksgiving.

A snippet:

I dreamed that dream again last night but this time it ended differently. In this dream (always before) I am standing on slightly higher ground at the edge of a paddy and he comes toward me with his friend’s body in his arms and that look of unspeakable anguish on his face. I can’t say anything to him. I have no words to speak. The only words I can find are questions “These truths? Our lives and fortunes? Any price, any burden?”. As I continue to wake slowly I realize that it is only a dream and that I am not standing at the edge of the paddy (or anywhere) but am lying on my back in bed and the picture is slowly dissolving in the darkness above me. The words are a jumbled mess of The Declaration, The Inaugural and The Oath and they are the last to go and before I am fully awake and aware that I will not be able to go back to sleep.

This time was different. He has never looked at me before but this time he made eye contact. He looked straight at me and nodded “Yes”. I was jolted out of bed.

Yes! I knew instantly what he meant and knew that he was absolutely right! Yes! They were right—the words we started with. They were right and they still mean what they always said!

The pledge still holds—the Oath is still binding! We still hold these truths to be self-evident! We still pledge our several lives and fortunes!

Yes! “Bearing True Faith & Allegiance” to the one who died in our arms and to the countless others who died in other arms on other fields of fire. Keeping faith with those who still wake feeling the weight of his body in their arms and the grief of his death in their hearts…

The pledge still holds… our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor to assure the survival and the success of Liberty—let the word go forth from this time and place—that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe… to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic;

This much we pledge—and more— so help us God!

Nov 26, 2009 - 9:53 am 72. Dinocrat » Blog Archive » What country is this?:

[...] A man who said he was a former SEAL with two kids in the military claimed that this action is retribution by White House officials for a violation of the ROE in the matter of those Somali pirates who were so satisfyingly dispatched to their eternal rewards. Who knows if that’s true, but it’s believable with this crew, isn’t it? (HT: Belmont Club) [...]

Nov 26, 2009 - 9:54 am 73. what da ya mean, its too hot?:

Ladies and Gentlemen, boys and girls,

Can you say Circus? Just a taste of the Independent (cough) Media take on the issues of tampering and cough, misconduct.

Wadeusaf

Nov 26, 2009 - 10:14 am 74. F:

LOTM @ 50:

You leave out a few of events that have Holder’s fingerprints on them:

- release of the Puerto Rican terrorists,
- Marc Rich’s pardon.

Both aided the Clintons. Looks to me like this guy knows how to kiss up, sh*t down.

There are doubtless other things out there that other readers could add. He and his law firm have not done America any favors.

One of the posters above triggers an interesting possibility: what if KSM and his lawyers had to wade through a phalanx of protesters (Tea partiers who agree to double duty) every time they arrive in court? Would the point get across that the American public is not happy with this show trial?

F

Nov 26, 2009 - 10:23 am 75. Cannoneer No. 4:

Commander of Norfolk-based SEAL team relieved of duty

Nov 26, 2009 - 10:32 am 76. Canoneer No. 4:

Three SEALS accused of failing to protect Iraqi detainee

The three commandos are assigned to SEAL Team Ten, based at Joint Expeditionary Base Little Creek.

The Commander lost Team Four.

Nov 26, 2009 - 10:48 am 77. buddy larsen:

F/74; what if New Yorkers declared a general strike and shut down the city? You know, civil disobedience? It wouldn’t be outta line at all –these socialists know as well as we do that their new system isn’t new at all and will do to Americans exactly what it is doing to Cubans, North Koreans, Venezuelans, and recently to eastern Europeans and Chinese until they reformed their way back to what we already have, if only by the skin of our teeth.

So, since they don’t give a flying fig for you or yours, since they are obviously going for the nomenklatura high-life brass ring (just look –they have a full dress ball every other weekend and think nothing of letting their general Secretary wander areound with an issue of fricken GQ under his arm), then show ‘em who’s boss and shut the city down until they back off this mad in-your-face subjugation/demoralization ploy.

Learning that Holder’s law firm is what has been sandbagging the tribunals is such a yawning conflict of interest –it’s just infuriating how little these people care about the warp and weave of the rule of law and the power of tradition.

Nov 26, 2009 - 10:54 am 78. NahnCee:

It is being reported in various places that an uninvited couple managed to saunter their way into the White House’s state dinner for India this week. The news is being treated as a titter at the social ambition of the couple, dismay that That Person and his harridan spouse might have been in danger, yet another example of the wall-to-wall racism suffered by the First Black Couple, and maybe just a scootch of embarrassment that (once again) the Obama White House and its staff have proven to be embarrassingly naive and bumbling.

However, forget the “striking model-thin blonde” bimbo wife. I’m interested in the dude with the Arab name (Tareq Salahi), and whether next time he’ll have a dynamite belt strapped on under his tux. Although given the First Couple and their combined guest list, and their mutual denial that there is any such thing as terrorism or the need to have a war against it, it would be really good karma to have them all meet their makers because of the tender attentions of an Islamic jihadist, with lots of little bitty pieces of multi-ethnic American-grown hamburger.

Because there were no Navy SEALs at the White House doors to make sure uninvited guests with Arab names couldn’t crash the party.

Nov 26, 2009 - 10:56 am 79. sirius_sir:

Since the subject nominally concerns misconduct in Fallujah, perhaps we–meaning the good ole USA–should enter a counter-claim with the Iraqi authorities. No, not against the–ahem–alleged terrorist suspect, but one or more of his enablers. Remember the big important Iraqi general who was going to go into Fallujah–after the Marines had surrounded and closed in on the do-badders, preparatory to annihilating them?–the guy who assured one and all that he could negotiate a peaceful end to the stand-off, persuade the bad guys to lay down their arms, and come willingly to justice? Remember what happened next? No? Then I will tell you. Next thing anyone knew the do-badders had somehow, inexplicably, escaped and skeedaddled.

Now, how exactly did that happen? Was it simply a matter of inattention and incompetence, or was there perhaps something more going on? Shouldn’t the Iraqi authorities–so concerned about our misconduct at Abu Ghraib–at least look at the person(s) responsible for far more Iraqi (not to mention American) deaths and suffering?

Nah, I guess not. It’s probably impolite even to suggest it.

If, as some here suggest, the subject really is, once again, all about our treatment of detainees, going back to the horrendous abuses inflicted at Abu Ghraib, perhaps it would be instructional to put that into some kind of perspective as well.

Oh heck, let me just say it, unnuanced and loud, that we have less cause to be embarrassed than proud. Just so: LET ME BEGIN WITH A simple sentence that, even as I write it, appears less than Swiftian in the modesty of its proposal: “Prison conditions at Abu Ghraib have improved markedly and dramatically since the arrival of Coalition troops in Baghdad.”

http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000%5C000%5C005%5C995phqjw.asp

Nov 26, 2009 - 11:20 am 80. Whitehall:

There are two varieties of courage. One is physical courage in the face of physical harm. Our solders and sailors and airmen demonstrate this over and over.

The other is moral courage. That’s the ability to take a risk to reputation, livelihood, and freedom. These SEALS are showing that they have both.

By this act they rebut the Administration’s decision on KSM’s venue. They are saying, don’t American citizens and servicemen deserve the same legal protections as KSM? This puts security secrets at the same risk of revelation, legally.

Nov 26, 2009 - 11:28 am 81. buddy larsen:

“Lawfare” –some good articles here, Frontpage, NGO Monitor, American Spectator, Slate, WSJ, etcetera.

Nov 26, 2009 - 11:57 am 82. Mongoose:

Buddy, i can tell you do not drive into the City to work every day.

Us New Yorkers, we shut the city down twice a day.

Seriously, the vast majority of New Yorkers think Obama is just Aces.

Seriously.

I have watched a truly totalitarian, collectivist cloud creep over the City these last 20 years or so, and have seen New Yorker become inured to it. It is not the same place it was many years ago.

What the rest of the nation needs to do is go on national strike and shut places like New York down.

Nov 26, 2009 - 4:25 pm 83. NahnCee:

If NY is in a godforsaken cloud, what sort of miasma is DC living in?

Nov 26, 2009 - 7:00 pm 84. buddy larsen:

mongoose, i still think it’s a small orchestra –but with great sets of amplifiers that drown out the natural sounds of the sphere. Granted, the orchesytra’s playlist is wondrous multiplex –financial crises, presidential elections, international climate orthodoxies, you and not your gov’t is shorting out healthcare, education, law, cultural dignity, etcetera. The painstakingly-constructed MSM amplifiers have worked very well until just lately –but suddenly songbirds pipe up among the constant crescendo of brass and drum. Dunno maybe rats have gotten into the wiring of the Mighty Wurlitzer.

Nov 27, 2009 - 8:36 am 85. Subotai Bahadur:

Just ran across this earlier today.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/editorials/clubbing_seals_HL7IoVVGqlZpvWCXQRWcDJ

Money Quote:

“What is especially ironic, to say nothing of infuriating, about the SEALs’ inquisition is that it underscores the utter lack of curiosity exhibited by the Pentagon in the matter of Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan, the Army shrink and Islamist.”

And also today:

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2009/11/025023.php

In reference to those SEIU thugs working for Democratic Congressman Russ Carnahan; who assaulted, beat, and concussed Kenneth Gladney, cursing him with the one forbidden word in American political discourse, for committing the sin of being Black and not supporting Obama. After trying to avoid any prosecution at all, St. Louis Democratic prosecutors finally filed misdemeanor ordinance violation charges, I believe to avoid filing of Civil Rights charges against them under 42 USC.

“UPDATE: It occurs to me that if these union thugs had been Navy SEALS apprehending a terrorist mass murderer of Americans, rather than agents of the Democratic Party trying to suppress expression of a political view with which the Democratic Party disagrees, they would have been treated far more harshly. Why do you think that is?”

The question was answered immediately afterwards:

“FURTHER UPDATE: Glenn Reynolds offers a simple answer: “Because the SEIU thugs are advancing the goals of people in power?”

Die Fahne hoch! Die Reihen fest geschlossen!
SA SEIU marschiert mit mutig-festem Schritt.

Subotai Bahadur

Nov 27, 2009 - 5:36 pm

Write a Comment

Name:	(required, displayed)
Email:	(required, not publicized)
URL:	(optional, displayed)
Comments:

Notify me of followup comments via e-mail