Even a few weeks ago, that question would have been a punchline. Now it is a legitimate inquiry. In our 50-50 nation, the election could go either way.
The always interesting Russ Smith predicts that some Democratic activists would cry “vote fraud” and decry “Swift Boat-style” ads–and, of course, attack the fly-over sections of the country for their boneheadedness. Of course. Any political party dominated by lawyers is constitutionally unable to avoid being sore losers.
But the most interesting aspect of Smith’s analysis looks back at the shock among Democratic shock troops when Sen. Kerry lost in 2004. Smith writes:
Today, John Kerry is mostly a pariah in Democratic circles, seen as an effete and cautious campaigner who couldn’t even beat the laughable George Bush. Yet people, and the media, forget how shocked his supporters were four Novembers ago, so certain that Bush’s Supreme Court “selection” in 2000 would be overturned.
An article in The New York Times shortly after the election described the utter devastation felt by New York City residents, who gave Kerry 75 percent of their votes. Dr. Joseph Zito, a retired psychiatrist, told the reporter, “I’m saddened by what I feel is the obtuseness and shortsightedness of a good part of the country—the heartland… New Yorkers are more sophisticated and at a level of consciousness where we realized we have to think of globalization, of one mankind, that what’s going to injure masses of people is not good for us.” A friend of Zito’s, a native of Wisconsin, added, “New Yorkers are savvy. We have street smarts. Whereas people in the Midwest are more influenced by what their friends say.”
But who says New Yorkers are elitists?
A Beverly Hills psychologist, Cathy Quinn, told a Los Angeles Times reporter—also days after the Kerry defeat—that she’d seen an increase in the number of patients, who were suffering from “despair.” Quinn predicted to the Times’ Melissa Healy that the “postelection” blues would worsen the emotional health of people already plagued by feelings of loss, anxiety and depression.
Obama is much more than Kerry could ever be. Obama’s biography is straight out of a Democratic dream factory; his being touches and excites every element of the vast and varied Democratic party coalition. He and his wife are activist lawyers; he is connected to both the 1960s radicals (Ayers et al) and the Daley Democrats who beat them up in 1968 (Michelle’s father was a Daley ward heeler). Obama is not only an environmentalist-surfer from Hawaii, but he is a better public speaker than Keanau Reeves. He is an author-intellectual yet he can emote. He is telegenic and fit, yet has one perfect flaw: he is struggling in his fight against cigarettes. He has no problem with his wife earning more than he does while he decries the fact that, on average, women earn less than men in the some positions. He is Christian, but not born-again. And so on. He is an absolutely perfect incarnation of the liberal dream.
If Obama is rejected by voters, liberal activists will face a difficult moment. Mondale, Dukakis, Gore, Kerry, sure. There was something wrong with them. A failure to connect. A remoteness. A coldness felt in some feathers of the left wing. Bill Clinton was an electoral success, but something about him didn’t sit right. The drama. The southerness. The welfare reform. The zaftig valley girl. Activists can understand why voters might have punished Hillary for the sins of Bill.
But Obama? He is perfect.
A rejection of Obama can only mean one of two things: a rejection of the 1960s formulation of liberalism (the current formulation, alas) or that America is deeply racist. Too many of them will go for the second hypotheses.
Too many think that elections turn on identities, not ideas.
If Obama loses–and it is still a big ‘if’–too many liberals will fail to heed the message that voters have been sending them since 1981. Seventy percent of the country is tired of 1960s liberalism. Indeed many find the hippie vision frightening: A country too ashamed of itself to fight its enemies, too unsure of itself to praise its own history,govern its children or corral its criminals,and too resentful of the rich to allow the economy to make more of them.
And I predict that, if Obama loses, liberals won’t ask the key question: If, instead, we had tried 1990s Clinton-DLC liberalism, would it have worked?
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254 Comments
1. Pajamas Media » What if Obama Loses?:[...] the entire story here [...]
Sep 16, 2008 - 12:23 pm 2. Jim,MtnViewCA,USA:And yet, from the Conservative viewpoint, Sen Obama is a rookie with a thin resume who “loves the future because that’s where all his accomplishments are”.
Sep 16, 2008 - 12:34 pm 3. Douglas Bogle:The split is stark. I think Conservatives can see the attraction that Liberals have for Sen Obama whereas Liberals really can’t comprehend the Conservative view, at all.
The loss of Obama will do the same amount of damage to the country as his victory.
Obamas plan for the US will kill our economy ( worst than now ) and his foreign policy will make us the butt of jokes around the world.
But, ” when, if ” he looses, every lawyer will be out to sell the American voter down the river, just to make a buck. IE Kerry.
Then the racist comments and attitudes.
9/11, bailouts and now Obama, can anyone say ROME.
Sep 16, 2008 - 12:44 pm 4. Tcobb:Now is the time to push for draconian laws against voter fraud in federal elections. Despite the fact that Democrats seem to be engaged in most of it, they are also the ones most likely to scream about it when they lose. If the Republicans make a big public push for such measures the Dems will look truly bad if they oppose it and they won’t be in much of a position to say that McCain “stole the election” if they lose.
Sep 16, 2008 - 12:44 pm 5. Danae:Honestly, when Obama loses, there will be mass hysteria. Liberals are going to lose their minds.
Sep 16, 2008 - 12:45 pm 6. RE:But perhaps some would finally realize that their’s was a false messiah, concluding that if he can’t win an election, he probably never could hold back the seas, either.
Sep 16, 2008 - 12:50 pm 7. John the Libertarian:I have never seen a liberal admit being wrong about anything. Even the Farmer’s Almanac cites a cooling trend for the next 50 years, and yet the global warming alarmists won’t concede. Al Gore declared we had 10 years left before end-of-days. Three down, seven to go, Al.
Remember, liberalism is largely founded on the need for people to feel good about themselves. At its very heart is a narcissism; the presidential race is about ego-driven vs. purpose-driven agendas; as exhibit, when Palin said about Obama, “this is a man who authored two memoirs, but not a single piece of legislation.” The crowd went nuts.
It doesn’t feel good to admit they’re wrong.
Sep 16, 2008 - 12:51 pm 8. ProgMeister:I think Conservatives can see the attraction that Liberals have for Sen Obama whereas Liberals really can’t comprehend the Conservative view, at all.
sure we can; the problem is that the Republicans never run any real conservatives … and this year is no different. The evangelicals may be excited by Sarah Palin but a woman who takes from the oil companies and gives to the people, and who now promises a crackdown on CEO pay, is no conservative
if, however, “conservative” means that a rape victim must — as a matter of law — bear the child of the rapist, or implies an endorsement of the “I don’t vote for niggers” point of view, you are correct: we do not see the attraction for anyone.
Sep 16, 2008 - 12:54 pm 9. John the Libertarian:Tcobb,
the Republicans keep pushing for voter ID, but the Democrats say it is racist and unduly punishes the poor.
Sep 16, 2008 - 12:55 pm 10. Fred:Hopefully after losing yet another presidential election the liberals will finally realize that the key to winning the White House is not to go out and nominate an even more liberal candidate. The candidate that wins the White House is almost always the one who is closest to the center. Liberals and conservatives don’t swing their vote, moderates do.
Sep 16, 2008 - 12:58 pm 11. John the Libertarian:Progmeister,
the Bubba vote (those who won’t vote for an African American candidate) surfaced in the Democratic primaries, a whopping 10 percent in some states. You guys are wallowing in a cesspool of racism, sexism and identity politics, while throwing aspersions at conservatives who just look at you with bemusement.
And I’d really like you to make that your bumper-sticker slogan: “It’s up to us to prevent rape babies.”
Sep 16, 2008 - 12:59 pm 12. Dr. Mark:Well naturally if Obama loses it will be caused by the ‘hidden” racism that will swell out here in the the “unsophisticated” heartland. Afterall, we still seem to be moved emotionally by Air Force flyovers and the Star Spangled Banner and many of our gun owning parents approve of the quiet prayers still said by high school football teams before a game. We could never hope to reach the pinnacles of awareness (or crime,depravity and lawlessness) that one might find in NYC or LA but I guess we will have to deal with it and continue to raise children to be tax payers and not welfare parasites (whose ballots have been bought and paid for by liberals for decades). Shame on the “heartland” for trying to CLING to what is left of the American dream previous generations held…well, not. One last observation: A conservative black American like Dr. Sewell or Ward Connerly is viewed by the left (and by most of their own community) as “sell-outs”, yet all those smilin’ white faces strategically placed at Obama rallies are “open minded” Hmmm, shame you can’t call them what they are….
Sep 16, 2008 - 1:00 pm 13. ProgMeister:Obamas plan for the US will kill our economy ( worst than now ) and his foreign policy will make us the butt of jokes around the world.
Palin’s “foreign policy” comments have already made us the butt of jokes around the world, as have McCain’s remarks about “the Iraq-Pakistan border.” Obama, on the other hand, has been well-received around the world.
Sep 16, 2008 - 1:01 pm 14. LeftisRight:I spoke to one fella about the e.v. He said, why do we still bother with it? This guy, a very rich non-American making big money in a big city, thinks that people like him should be able to decide for those knuckleheads in “What’s Wrong With” Kansas about everything.
His reasoning went: If the majority of the people live in the big cities along the coasts (i.e. liberal heartland), then they should get to make all the decisions. (That was reflecting, I think, the Bush e.v. win in 2000.) But get this: 2000 was an anomaly. This country is swinging conservative, meaning more and more of the popular vote will go over to us because the liberals have become so odious to average Americans.
Now, as I see things shaping up, McCain will probably win he popular vote significantly enough and take the electoral prize too. It’s a cultural divide, it’s deepening, but I believe that we will ultimately win.
Gentlemen and gentlewomen, let us be compassionate to our liberal friends come November.
Sep 16, 2008 - 1:03 pm 15. Proud to be Conservative:Your desciption of 1960’s hippie version of liberalism is absolutely accurate and I would say that it has been at the root of most of our country’s ill for the past 40 years. The hippies went into academia and media and have tried to push their ideas on the rest of the country.
I was a child of the 60’s but never bought into the hippie way of life and I have been ashamed of my generation for 40 years. I’m glad that we are in our 50’s, 60’s and 70’s and with any luck a new generation will steer this country with a better vision.
Sep 16, 2008 - 1:04 pm 16. Dr. Mark:Palin’s “foreign policy” ?? Well, it is true that she did not prostrate herself in front of thousands of German socialists…I figure that makes a “statesman” of Obama (who needs a teleprompter at a Rodeo) JUST the guy to take on Putin. But then, he could just hide behind Biden’s skirts for that…if Biden wasn’t to busy explaining his GENEROSITY to charity and the downtrodden with those grandiose contributions in the last 5 years. Yup, Libs taken care of the little guy…as long as it is with someone else’s money!!
Sep 16, 2008 - 1:10 pm 17. Fred:ProgMeister:
You must realize, foreigners would like nothing more than to see the downfall of the US. Or at least see us taken down a notch or two. Do you think that they prefer Obama because think he will be better for America? Think again. Open your eyes and start supporting the candidate that has America’s best interest at heart. Assuming of course, that you are indeed an american.
Sep 16, 2008 - 1:11 pm 18. Patterson:I am borrowing this quote from another Pajamas Media poster but I think it is perfect for the situation.
Bonnie_
Sep 16, 2008 - 1:13 pm 19. Mark:“If Obama loses… okay, when Obama loses, we will have fulfilled the great Martin Luther King, Jr.’s dream.
We will have judged a man, not by the color of his skin, but by the content of his character.”
Obama, on the other hand, has been well-received around the world.
And that is another reason conservatives dislike Obama, he is running for president of the USA not the world, and he should act like it.
Sep 16, 2008 - 1:16 pm 20. Cletus:Didn’t one guy kill himself because he couldn’t stand another 4 years of Bush?
Sep 16, 2008 - 1:16 pm 21. ProgMeister:@John The Libertarian
the Republicans keep pushing for voter ID, but the Democrats say it is racist and unduly punishes the poor.
hate to clue you, fella, but real Libertarians don’t carry government ID cards of any kind
Sep 16, 2008 - 1:16 pm 22. Self-hating boomer:Nope. You have no idea how much damage he and his Chicago thugs have in store for us. I can put up with the hissyfit. The country won’t survive a term of his kind of hopey changey.
Sep 16, 2008 - 1:18 pm 23. Self-hating boomer:That’s yesterday’s news. Look around on this thread. They’ve already been there, done that.
Sep 16, 2008 - 1:19 pm 24. Angela:ProgMeister:
Sep 16, 2008 - 1:23 pm 25. Katherine:During the primaries, Rush Limbaugh pointed out to us conservatives that the Democrats were choosing our candidate by encouraging Democrats to vote for McCain, the most liberal among the Republican candidates, because they thought we would rebel and not vote for him. Now that McCain is indeed our presidential candidate, and it has become painfully obvious to the lefties that we conservatives are going to stick together and elect the candidate that they chose, they are so aghast with disbelief…and fear…and anxiety…that they must stumble overthemselves to see who can come up with the most vile lie or distortion of what McCain and Palin believe and stand for! They are getting what they deserve! I am a life long conservative, born again evangelical Christian who has voted Republican since Barry Goldwater was our candidate. McCain was not my first choice initially, but NOW he is! I admire him more every day, and I’m excited beyond measure that he chose Sarah Palin as his running mate. And I assure you that the majority of the Christian conservatives whom I know feel exactly the same way that I do! Our state will definitely show red on the map on election night…again!! It is outrageous liberals like you who are making us stand more firmly in the Republican corner.
“Bill Clinton was an electoral success, but something about him didn’t sit right. The drama. The southerness. The welfare reform. The zaftig valley girl. Activists can understand why voters might have punished Hillary for the sins of Bill.”
One of Bill Clinton’s sins was being Southern??? Who is this guy???
Sep 16, 2008 - 1:26 pm 26. newton:If there’s any indication that people have been seriously thinking of the ramifications of an Obama victory or defeat, look no further than the number of people who have been stocking on guns and ammo in the months before this coming Fall.
I predict that an Obama defeat will mean more than trips to a psychologist for some. It might well mean a trip to the E.R. or the morgue, because of the street turmoil…
Oh, I hope I’m wrong. I still believe we can conduct our civic duties in a civilized manner, but given the level of animosity I have seen in the last few years, I believe someone’s going to explode… and hurt somebody.
Sep 16, 2008 - 1:29 pm 27. Dr. Mark:Iranian media pundits support Obama…I wonder why??? Another way to insure his victory is to further loosen immigration policies and allow members of Al-Qaeda to vote..
Sep 16, 2008 - 1:30 pm 28. solomonpal:Prog’
“Palin’s “foreign policy” comments have already made us the butt of jokes around the world, as have McCain’s remarks about “the Iraq-Pakistan border.” Obama, on the other hand, has been well-received around the world.”
We just want to be loved!
So how are Chavez, Putin, Fidel’s, Acminadinnerjackets comments on foreign policy received by in you?
Sep 16, 2008 - 1:34 pm 29. JoshC:Speaking as a European I know for a fact that if Obama loses then the anti-Americanism that infects so many people here will increase to levels beyond anything yet seen.
Sad but unfortunately true.
Sep 16, 2008 - 1:37 pm 30. Tcobb:Palin’s “foreign policy” comments have already made us the butt of jokes around the world, as have McCain’s remarks about “the Iraq-Pakistan border.” Obama, on the other hand, has been well-received around the world.
(1) Insofar as the rest of the world is concerned–stupid is as stupid does.
(2) I’m sure all the progressives in all–what was it–55 states, will turn out to support the Obamessiah and win victory for his holiness.
Well, what do I know? I’m so old I remember a time when there were only 50 states in the union. My, how times have changed.
Sep 16, 2008 - 1:38 pm 31. Vodkapundit » Los Angeles Meets Kosovo?:[...] Green on 16 Sep 2008 at 02:42 pm A few short months ago, could you have even imagined anyone issuing serious warnings about what to expect if Obama [...]
Sep 16, 2008 - 1:42 pm 32. Dr. Mark:RIGHT ON TCobb!!!…I think the Obamassiah said 57 states….wow..without a teleprompter too!!
Sep 16, 2008 - 1:43 pm 33. John Austin TX fitness:“A rejection of Obama can only mean one of two things: a rejection of the 1960s formulation of liberalism (the current formulation, alas) or that America is deeply racist”.
America will reject BHO because he is a socialist.
Sep 16, 2008 - 1:48 pm 34. ic:Tcobb: 57, or possibly 58 states, not 55.
Obama has already won 7 of the 57 states, McCain has an uphill battle to fight.
Sep 16, 2008 - 1:49 pm 35. WR Jonas:When Obama loses the question then becomes , who is in charge of the Democratic Party? I believe that an internal struggle between the largest factions will create serious and unrepairable fissures.
Sep 16, 2008 - 1:57 pm 36. Dave II:If they lose, who believes taking the party further to the left will correct their failure in courting American voters?
They control education , the courts and most of the media now ; what do they lack in selling their message ? The Party of Howard Dean is so far to the left now any hope for a correction to the center isn’t possible without a split.
Here’s the REAL question:
What will happen when Obama loses BIGTIME???
I don’t see any significant change coming with a MccCain squeeker win…the same old excuses will come out, and the same old far-left liberals in the Democratic Party will survive another day to continue to pull it down.
When Obama loses BIG…and by that I mean a 300+ electoral victory for McCain, winning Ohio, Pennyslvannia, Minnesota, New Hampshire, Colorado, New Mexico, and even possibly New York, New Jersey, or Washington (once thought impossible, but now very much within range) then the whole charade of Dean, Pelosi, and Reid will be exposed and a maybe, just maybe…an opening for a new kind of Democratic Party.
There won’t be any LEGITIMATE crys of “voter fraud”, or stolen elections…the verdict and the mandate will be UNAVOIDABLE for the far-left that controls the DNC.
Only their hat being handed to them and being shown the door will we see any true CHANGE in this country!
Sep 16, 2008 - 1:57 pm 37. Anthony (Los Angeles):If* Obama loses the election on Tuesday night, I feel sorry for whoever’s answering the phones Wednesday morning at the Canadian immigration office.
Sep 16, 2008 - 2:10 pm 38. FreedomLover:I don’t see any educational benefit for liberals in an Obama loss. Most liberals I know fall in two categories:
1. Good folks who think with their hearts – they FEEL. That is not going to change, so they’ll have to go with the “we’re a racist nation” to explain the loss.
2. The NYT type you quoted whose worldview is that old New Yorker map – high detail of Manhattan and a blur after New Jersey until you reach California. They’ll go with the “stupid rubes” explanation.
Eurabia will agree with them both. What can I say? We’re Americans, not citizens of the world.
Sep 16, 2008 - 2:38 pm 39. pashley1411:same old crap 88, 2000, 2004. They promise to riot, but never do. The promise to emigrate, but don’t. They vow to bring in voter groups they mocked last election; its good for a news cycle. They vow to work harder next time, but don’t learn their lessons from the past. The promise they do keep is to feel sorry for themselves. Its not a party, its psychiatric disorder.
Sep 16, 2008 - 2:42 pm 40. Pee Wee Herman, Community Organizer:Does this mean the oceans aren’t going to part?
Sep 16, 2008 - 2:45 pm 41. Kelly:Self Hating Boomer- you are making my day again. I love to laugh and agree with you…Thanks
Sep 16, 2008 - 2:48 pm 42. sandy (los angeles):I got an e-mail from a BHO supporter today entitled “they’re stealing our election again” showing photos of Karl Rove, etc. This person was in no way conceding defeat — but maybe subconsciously they know they can’t win? Why else would they be setting up the stolen election argument?
Sep 16, 2008 - 2:59 pm 43. Agoraphobic Plumber:“Palin’s “foreign policy” comments have already made us the butt of jokes around the world, as have McCain’s remarks about “the Iraq-Pakistan border.” Obama, on the other hand, has been well-received around the world.”
And the adoration of our rivals and enemies is supposed to be a *POSITIVE* for Obama?
Seriously. Think what you’re saying. I would hazard a guess that Cuba, Hamas, Libya, Iran, North Korea, Russia, China and others are hoping for an Obama win. Some of them have already publicly said as much.
So the Euros won’t be happy with us. Big deal? Most of them couldn’t bring themselves to help us out in Iraq. They had to have their arms twisted damn near OFF to help us in ‘91. If they couldn’t see that it was a good thing to bring military action against a petty thug like Hussein, they certainly aren’t going to do more than bleat WHATEVER we chose to do. And we’ve now discovered that Britain and Poland are the only Euros with any power that are really our friends.
Feh. If the world wants somebody nice to adore, I know a few charismatic people in my town that they could focus on, if it would ease the pain of the US electing a president of the US rather than of the world.
Sep 16, 2008 - 3:00 pm 44. penny:If Obama loses the angry Left will be even angrier. As the Democrats invented victim politics their response must follow that blacks are victimized by racism, hence, Obama never stood a chance. Race relations will probably regress. Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson won’t be exiting the stage unfortunately. And, sadly, blacks will continue to be held back by the Democrat’s victim gaming.
Regardless the election outcome, the MSM after this election will be more diminished as their partisan bias was so blatant. That is a good thing.
Will the Democrats have learned anything if Obama loses, which I hope will be resounding, I doubt it unless the margin is big. The MSM will be back on the airwaves the next morning as irrelevant, partisan and vacuous as before. The lefties in the victim studies departments will be more shrill than ever. I place the most blame for all of this on the Clinton doorstep. After Reagan if they had never shown up I think we had a good chance of ending the divisive politics of victim gaming.
Sep 16, 2008 - 3:04 pm 45. Chuck Pelto:TO: ProgMeister
RE: But….
Wouldn’t that make it difficult for them to participate in the political forum by not being able to vote? Are they REALLY that ‘dumb’?
Regards,
Chuck(le)
Sep 16, 2008 - 3:09 pm 46. ProgMeister:[Look upon it as evolution in action.]
@agora…
And the adoration of our rivals and enemies is supposed to be a *POSITIVE* for Obama?
Earlier, it was important how other nations regard us; when I point out that with Obama it’s a positive, now it doesn’t matter. Make up your mind.
Sep 16, 2008 - 3:14 pm 47. Valerie:If Obama loses, the Democrats will swallow hard, and decide that they have to support the guy selected by the people of these United States. That’s why we have elections.
Sep 16, 2008 - 3:26 pm 48. J.E.Rendini:Whether Obama wins or loses, race relations in this country will probably suffer.
If he loses, black activists will take it as proof that our society is incurably racist. That will be bad enough.
But if he wins, he will be incompetent and corrupt. He will both leave the country open to its enemies and start a major war when things get out of hand. He will be unable to put any check on the Democrats in Congress, who will raise taxes, block free trade, spend money like water and run riot with heavy-handed regulations when the economy, as a result of their own actions, goes directly south. Many people of sound mind and good will publicly castigate Obama for these failures. But black activits will take the criticisms as proof that the country is incurably racist. And with their having gained access to the power of the executive branch, that will be even worse.
As for the Democrats, an Obama victory will mean the confirmation of the New Left’s sclerotic dominance of the party and business as usual will proceed triumphant and unchecked. They will alienate many and the country will continue divided and uncertain.
An Obama defeat would create an opportunity for Democrats to re-examine their party. If the Democratic party simply jetisoned the Left and adopted pro-life and strong national defense positions, it would be a dominant majority party. But, of course, the Democrats are much too smart for that.
Sep 16, 2008 - 3:30 pm 49. Albert, NYC:I have a 24 yo son in college (NYC). He is already hiding his Republican views when asked/challenged/pestered by his fellow students: “Who are you voting for?” On Nov. 4th, after voting, he is staying home with me. He tells me his campus will be too dangerous a place if Senator Obama loses.
We are planning to have a dinner + a bottle of good wine to cheer Senator McCain and Governor Palin’s victory.
Sep 16, 2008 - 3:32 pm 50. ProgMeister:@Angela
During the primaries, Rush Limbaugh pointed out to us conservatives …
already you’re in trouble listening to that fat-assed, foul-mouthed, pill-popping idiot
they must stumble overthemselves to see who can come up with the most vile lie or distortion of what McCain and Palin believe and stand for!
I think the two of them do a good enough job of exposing their own miserable and uninformed positions
I am a life long conservative, born again evangelical Christian who has voted Republican since Barry Goldwater was our candidate. McCain was not my first choice initially, but NOW he is!
so you’re as flip-floppy as he is …. ok, whatever
I admire him more every day, and I’m excited beyond measure that he chose Sarah Palin as his running mate. And I assure you that the majority of the Christian conservatives whom I know feel exactly the same way that I do!
I’m sure you’re right; fortunately, there aren’t enough of you to carry an election .. you should consider seeing a professional to have that excitement measured … galvanic skin response might be a reasonable biometric proxy
Our state will definitely show red on the map on election night…again!! It is outrageous liberals like you who are making us stand more firmly in the Republican corner.
Angela, the truth of the matter is you have no idea in the world of how outrageously liberal I may or may not be; you think you know, but let’s face it, all you know is what you’ve memorized from someone else’s playbook. I supported Barry Goldwater too; he, along with people like Bill Buckley, were REAL conservatives … the idiots you have running now don’t know what in God’s name they are other than ambitious.
You’re stuck in a time warp, thinking that 2008 is 1967 and “liberals” wear tie-died tee shirts, drop acid all day long, and spend at least 25 hours a day fornicating for fun. Wake up.
Sep 16, 2008 - 3:32 pm 51. ProgMeister:@chuck pelto
Wouldn’t that make it difficult for them to participate in the political forum by not being able to vote? Are they REALLY that ‘dumb’?
Libertarians are not dumb at all; visit http://www.cato.org … my point is that poor fellow here who thinks he’s a libertarian .. isn’t
Sep 16, 2008 - 3:35 pm 52. ozziepat:“…if Obama loses…”
No, “when”. It’s time to start saying, “When Obama loses…”.
You see, the only data we haven’t seen detailed in the MSM about Obama is negative, because he has no positive history of any note. And the same MSM will run out of invented negatives about Sarah and Mack very soon now. When the media Obamaphants are reduced to criticizing the dog food Governor Palin buys or the ties McCain wears on the front page of the NY Slimes, we’ll know the end is in sight. I figure a few more weeks and the sounds you hear will be libtard heads imploding. It will be messy, but no more so than their constant psychopathic moaning and drooling.
Sep 16, 2008 - 3:38 pm 53. Chuck Pelto:TO: ProgMeister
RE: Aaaaahhh!
Dealing with heretics, eh?
Regards,
Chuck(le)
Sep 16, 2008 - 3:39 pm 54. Chuck Pelto:[Gather the faggots, brother, there'll be a bonfire TONIGHT!]
TO: Fred
RE: Good Point…..
….that.
Thanks for bringing it to my attention.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
Sep 16, 2008 - 3:51 pm 55. Bonnie_:[The world will never love US. -- President Theodore Roosevelt]
Libertarians became nothing more than clowns shortly after 9-11. The majority of them now dance with Truthers in their big floppy shoes, squirting water from their fake lapel flowers on each other.
Libertarians don’t deserve contempt; they are beneath contempt. Don’t want to carry an ID card because it hurts your feelings? Go visit Ground Zero and think it over. Want to legalize pot? Come enjoy the mental clinics filling up with psychotic young men and women who’ve smoked the “harmless” stuff for years. Want to legalize prostitution? Come check out the sex industry and talk to a twelve year old who has been sold to have sex for a living. Pah. Libertarians. Worm dirt, they are.
The lefties will seethe and pout when they lose. Libertarians will be too busy trying to clean up the spilled bong water. The rest of us will get up and go to work on Wednesday.
Sep 16, 2008 - 3:58 pm 56. Mike Shuster:I think this piece exaggerates a bit. If Obama loses, first and foremost, Democrats will blame the McCain campaign for lying. Race will be a distant second.
Sep 16, 2008 - 4:14 pm 57. Monte:Pelosi claims Democrat hands are clean regarding financial meltdown in progress. Seems to me Dems have pushed hard for home ownership for everyone regardless of income. Freddy and Fanny have marched to Dems direction not republician. I don’t know how a quasi government-private corp makes political donations but Obama is number 2 on the recipient list.
Sep 16, 2008 - 4:26 pm 58. antony douglas:I’m Irish,so I don’t have a vote,but heres my ten cents worth,McCain/Palin will win by getting out the vote and allowing the Dems to implode .The Democrats have lost the ability to connect beyond their core base of urban elites,there are no Obama Republicans to woo.What is interesting to note is how the Dems Nurembourg convention antics reprised Lord Kinnocks “victory”gig in Sheffield all those years ago.Pride before the fall.
Sep 16, 2008 - 4:27 pm 59. Cletus:ProgMeister:
You say that “real Libertarians don’t carry government ID cards of any kind”, but last time I checked, Libertarianism was all about freedom of choice, individualism. Who are you to tell him that he can’t carry a government ID if he feels like it?
Sep 16, 2008 - 4:33 pm 60. Anonymous Patriot:ProgMeister:
Fortunately, “The World” doesn’t get to vote in American elections, but in California illegal aliens apparently do.
I have to show my ID to buy booze or cash a check; why not be required to do so before voting too?
Don’t I have a right to know that the individuals that are voting should be voting??
Sep 16, 2008 - 4:37 pm 61. Herr Morgenholz:“implies an endorsement of the “I don’t vote
for niggers” point of view,”
You stay classy, ProlMeister. You keep thinking race is the issue. You prove the point that leftys are incapaable of understanding the conservative mindset. Trust me; we understand you, and you’re simpletons.
Sep 16, 2008 - 4:38 pm 62. Regular Guy:If liberals go “nuts,” it will be because they are truly astonished. Liberals in the United States have a much easier time than conservatives in isolating themselves from opposing political/cultural viewpoints. They read the New York Times, watch CNN (never Fox), go to all the right movies, watch all the right TV shows, and for recreation, go on DailyKos. They went to colleges where expression of conservative ideas was not only rare, but actually academically dangerous. It’s possible that they don’t even know anybody who’s supporting McCain. It doesn’t occur to them that reasonable, intelligent people could reach conclusions different from their own. So, if McCain does win, it can only be because of stupidity, ignorance, racism, greed, etc.
Sep 16, 2008 - 4:42 pm 63. Cal:They are such babies. IF MCcain loses, the GOP will not cry. Liberals are the children they never had.
Sep 16, 2008 - 4:44 pm 64. Whitworth:I will say it again, if Zerobama is not elected there will be screams of voter fraud, stolen election, white voters will be called racist, the media will call down hellfire and there will be race riots in many places.Even with all this as a very real proability it is still better to elect John McCain, actually, because of this threat we must elect McCain!
Sep 16, 2008 - 4:59 pm 65. Tcobb:You prove the point that leftys are incapaable of understanding the conservative mindset. Trust me; we understand you, and you’re simpletons.
Such bold words from someone who appears to be incapable of using a spell-checker. But then again, to leftists being a leftist means that you are a model of that which is the highest and noblest that mankind can attain. And . . . as the dictionary tells us, what is a model but “a small imitation of a real thing.”
Have a nice day.
Sep 16, 2008 - 5:21 pm 66. ProgMeister:@cletus
You say that “real Libertarians don’t carry government ID cards of any kind”, but last time I checked, Libertarianism was all about freedom of choice, individualism. Who are you to tell him that he can’t carry a government ID if he feels like it?
hey, dude, I’m a liberal and what that means, inter alia, is that he can carry whatever he wants; I don’t want to make choices for him and I don’t want him to make choices for me. But of course you miss the point: Libertarians find the idea of government-issued ID cards absolutely revolting.
You guys keep on harping about “getting government off our backs” but you don’t mean it; I don’t even think you recognize it when it’s staring you in the face.
And, one more time: your nominees for President and VP are not true conservatives. If it makes you happy, go ahead and call them conservatives or whatever else you want to call them, but for those of us who actually know the difference, it gets tedious. The truth is that you are ONLY conservative when it’s convenient to be so.
Sep 16, 2008 - 5:25 pm 67. ProgMeister:@all
well kiddies …. here’s a little news flash for you:
this evening, the “conservative” Republican administration announced that it is nationalizing one of the country’s largest public financial service companies, AIG
yup, conservative ideology hard at work for you …. LOL
you guys are SOOOO richly entertaining !!!
Sep 16, 2008 - 5:30 pm 68. Chuck Pelto:TO: ProgMeister
RE: Yes….
And we have the Clinton administration to thank for putting US on this path….
See THIS article for the details.
This is not to say that Republicans don’t bear their share of the blame. However, isn’t it a Dem-controlled Congress at this time?
If they’re so smart, how comes they didn’t sound warnings about this earlier? Indeed. They didn’t, as far as I can tell.
Then we have the one woman who’s cost us BILLIONS AND BILLIONS TWICE….
See THIS article about Jamie Gorelick. It’s an eye-opener. And, guess which party she’s affiliated with. Three guesses….first two don’t count.
Then we have this little tidbit….
Slip tight, you little kidder you.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[I think kids appreciate it when adults actually treat them like people. Little, stupid people who cry a lot.]
You know….Democrats…..
Sep 16, 2008 - 5:42 pm 69. Kevin C.:JoshC wisely said:
“Speaking as a European I know for a fact that if Obama loses then the anti-Americanism that infects so many people here will increase to levels beyond anything yet seen.”
However, can we get the word out that Americans could not care less about European anti-Americanism? The only annoying thing about it is having to hear people talk about it.
Sep 16, 2008 - 5:54 pm 70. ProgMeister:@all
now, for all of you flag-waving nationalists who insist that the United States is an island fortress and foreign opinion is of no consequence, let’s take a little stroll down memory lane: in January 2004, Carly Fiorina, now one of John McCain’s top economic advisers, when meeting with members of Congress said:
“There is no job that is America’s God-given right anymore. We have to compete for jobs as a nation.”
But your argument is that we want this voice in the ear of a President McCain? It IS the voice we would have, of course along with Phil Gramm, the likely McCain choice for Secretary of The Treasury and husband of Wendy Gramm, yes, the Wendy Gramm who sat on Enron’s Board of Directors and watched a huge enterprise go down the toilet, did nothing about it and lined her own pockets.
Don’t forget, Phil said the country is only going through a “mental recession” and Americans are a bunch of whiners … feel good? sound accurate? Does Phil have any idea why America’s largest, mightiest financial institutions are dropping like flies one by one?
And … let’s not forget that just today Ms. Fiorina said that neither Mr. McCain nor Ms. Palin have the wherewithal to run a company like Hewlett Packard … of course, during the five or six years that SHE ran it, the share price dropped about 62% while her competitors were holding their own.
My friends, are you actually serious about expecting anyone to vote for McCain/Palin? Did Richard Miniter really devote a entire blog post to speculate on what happens if Obama loses??
Sep 16, 2008 - 5:56 pm 71. Tcobb:And, one more time: your nominees for President and VP are not true conservatives. If it makes you happy, go ahead and call them conservatives or whatever else you want to call them, but for those of us who actually know the difference, it gets tedious. The truth is that you are ONLY conservative when it’s convenient to be so.
Then what do YOU call them? You seem to be the expert on “labels,” so what is your expert opinion?
Sep 16, 2008 - 6:02 pm 72. Will Becker:If Barako loses,God will have blessed America again.Pure and simple.
Sep 16, 2008 - 6:03 pm 73. 3days:Well, I live on a corner with a lot of traffic and am eagerly awaiting some big McCain Palin signs….
The current report is:
===
Sorry for the delay however we are expecting the signs in the next few days. We did not forget you. Printing has been slowed by huge demand.
Will get them to you as soon as possible.
Mike
Sep 16, 2008 - 6:16 pm 74. Kevin C.:===
@ProgMeister
“now, for all of you flag-waving nationalists who insist that the United States is an island fortress and foreign opinion is of no consequence, . . .”
Hey, ProgMeister, that’s not fair. You set me up to believe you were giving me a reason to be concerned about the state of foreign opinion regarding the USA. I see nothing in what you wrote.
As an Yankee ex-pat in China, I find a much more positive view of the USA among Chinese than the many European ex-pats I know here. Seeing as how Old Europe is slipping into historical irrelevance, tis better than the reverse–for your needless concern, that is.
Sep 16, 2008 - 6:21 pm 75. Herr Morgenholz:“this evening, the “conservative” Republican administration announced that it is nationalizing one of the country’s largest public financial service companies, AIG”
Do you mean “American International Group” is one of “this country’s” largest money-fungus companies? And what do you mean by “nationalize”? Can you be more specific to us rubes?
Oh well. Beats the ever loving shit out of nationalizing the 20% of our economy that is health care. (Though we nationalized more than half of that in the 60s with Medicare and Medicaid. Econ so lame, More of the same….I like that. You can use that ProleMeister.).
Sep 16, 2008 - 6:32 pm 76. TheComintern:Progmeister – You are a very astute thinker…The Euros do love Obama, of course they do.
They tend to have a thing for charismatic, left-wing National Socialists.
History is nothing but empirical data, bro….
Sep 16, 2008 - 6:32 pm 77. Lynn:re; JOSH C
Sep 16, 2008 - 6:32 pm 78. Herr Morgenholz:We really don’t care what you think of us.
Oh and I stick by my prediction that there will be race riots on November 5. The outcome of the election is irrelevant.
Sep 16, 2008 - 6:33 pm 79. newscaper:I fully expect the media to shamelessly fan the flames of any close states should the Republicans squeak thru.
I never hear it mentioned, but I fully remember my great disgust election night in 2004 when the media dragged their feet as long as possible in calling Ohio for Bush, in order to set it up as the Florida of ‘04, when it was all total BS because all had no problem whatsoever calling Pennsylvania (IIRC) for Kerry very early even thoough his lead there over Bush was smaller in both % AND absolute numbers.
I remember it distinctly.
Sep 16, 2008 - 6:35 pm 80. A.M. Mallett:What is needed now is a bumper sticker picture of a photo-shopped Alfred E. Newman with Obama’s image saying “What? Me Worry?”
Sep 16, 2008 - 6:41 pm 81. armchairpunter:I don’t suppose the embittered sophisticates of Europe will, upon learning of Obama’s defeat, reach such a degree of hatred against the USA that they would actually put in place (and pay for) their own defenses…
Liberals hate conservatives (two terms that have been mangled beyond recognition over the last few decades…) because they believe conservatives are the only thing standing between the USA and the socialist Candyland across the Atlantic.
Sep 16, 2008 - 7:04 pm 82. Tcobb:re; JOSH C
Sep 16, 2008 - 7:07 pm 83. Nostradamus:We really don’t care what you think of us.
LYNN–
You’re right–and THAT bothers them more than anything else. It is not that you disagree with them, it is the fact that they perceive that what they have to say has little or no weight in the opinions of most Americans.
Without the inner-city vote, very few liberals coulds win an election. When Obama loses there will be many fires burning in those inner-cities. Rodney King was nothing compared to an Obama loss. But that’s just talking about the Black Voters perspective. It won’t be just Blacks rioting. I saw few Blacks causing trouble at the Rep Convention. Multiply that by a factor of 500,000.
Sep 16, 2008 - 7:15 pm 84. Mike:Progmeister: Flag waiving nationalists?? Only people on the federal dole have that much contempt for the USA. So tell us, how much is your check for every month?
Sep 16, 2008 - 7:18 pm 85. mrkwong:ProgMeister – I think Ms Fiorina may have seriously wounded any possible cabinet consideration with today’s remark. It was a stupid and utterly false bit of egotism.
Sep 16, 2008 - 7:34 pm 86. mrkwong:Nostradamus – Obama’s getting, what, 93% of the 13% of the US that self-identifies as black? So that’s a solid 10% that he couldn’t chase away with a stick. Long-time pol-for-the-love-of-the-game Willie Brown commented that Obama’s best bet at this point is to sign up another 12 million black voters.
Sep 16, 2008 - 7:36 pm 87. ProgMeister:@Kevin C
As an Yankee ex-pat in China, I find a much more positive view of the USA among Chinese than the many European ex-pats I know here. Seeing as how Old Europe is slipping into historical irrelevance, tis better than the reverse–for your needless concern, that is.
yup, I’ve seen a lot of that in China too; why the hell shouldn’t they like us? We’re good customers. But there’s been a not so subtle shift in China since my first trip there in 1993 … then they would gather up groups of young Chinese lawyers to ask me question after question .. and they’d be hanging on every word … I kinda felt like … well, Sarah Palin … on more recent trips I still find the Chinese unfailingly polite, and they still ask me to speak at their energy conferences … BUT they are no longer deferential; there is even a little air of arrogance in them … beware; the Chinese are very adept at exploiting any and all advantages
as for Europe, other than agreeing very broadly about declining importance, I cannot otherwise agree … they remain important allies, trading partners and scientific colleagues; one cannot dismiss the importance and value of maintaining (perhaps rebuilding) our prestige as a nation there (and really, everywhere in the globe) … unless of course one is a damned fool.
Sep 16, 2008 - 7:42 pm 88. Saltherring:ProgMeister says, “You’re stuck in a time warp, thinking that 2008 is 1967 and “liberals” wear tie-died tee shirts, drop acid all day long, and spend at least 25 hours a day fornicating for fun. Wake up.”
No, most liberals don’t need to eat acid, as the trip they’re on would render orange sunshine mellow by comparison. And the only fornicating most lefties are capable of is bending over the American taxpayer to finance their failed socialist welfare programs.
Sep 16, 2008 - 7:44 pm 89. Believer:Well, there’s BO jetting off to Hollywood and Babs Streisand for his near $30K/plate fundraiser while the financial institutions melt.
Just taking care of himself — for those who’ve been watching, we’re used to it by now.
Funny how his advisors seem to have intimate knowledge of bank failures.
Penny Pritzker, billionaire, owes the US govt. half a billion after her bank folded — she’s BO’s Campaign Finance Chair(!). Remember James(?)Johnson – in this mess deep. BO named him to Chair his VP Search Committee, but he bowed out when his hand in the Fannie/Freddie mess became known.
Remember Jamie Gorelick? (Clinton’s Justice Dept. – wrote the law so CIA/FBI couldn’t share intelligence). She was running Fannie Mae – grabbing her millions(@26) as the books were being cooked. Clinton loosened the regulations on F/F, setting this whole thing up. These two institutions have always been associated with Dems so of course they’ll have the taxpayer bail them out. And we are.
Obama is #3 on list of those for whom money was given by these crooks. Some $120K. He got more monoey than even Hillary. But he’ll take care of his pals. As usual. He’ll be sure to point the finger away from these benefactors.
He’s already started blaming Bush and “this administration.” I noted he was careful to go easy on McCain. I think it was McCain a few years ago – and a few months ago – who warned about what was going on with these institutions, and that something should be done.
His association with this mess reminds me of what he and his pals have done in Chicago. Especially the public housing fiascos of his convicted pal and benefactor, Rezko. Out of 14 projects, the govt. halted 4 and the other ten the crooked developers walked away from – leaving disasters. But with their pockets full.
Never to miss an opportunity, BO’s using this to score politically – telling lies and diverting attention from those who’re responsible. And now he’s on a plane taking off to party with the wealthy Hollywood set. He’s learned well from the crooks. And his pockets are getting fatter just like theirs.
I sure hope it is McCain who takes Palin back to Washington. There’s a heck of alot of corruption to clean up. And we can be assured — with BO — it would just be more of the same.
“What if Obama Loses?” We should all give thanks.
Sep 16, 2008 - 7:45 pm 90. Fatcat:Dave II says:
“Here’s the REAL question:
What will happen when Obama loses BIGTIME???
I don’t see any significant change coming with a MccCain squeeker win…the same old excuses will come out, and the same old far-left liberals in the Democratic Party will survive another day to continue to pull it down.
When Obama loses BIG…and by that I mean a 300+ electoral victory for McCain, winning Ohio, Pennyslvannia, Minnesota, New Hampshire, Colorado, New Mexico, and even possibly New York, New Jersey, or Washington (once thought impossible, but now very much within range) then the whole charade of Dean, Pelosi, and Reid will be exposed and a maybe, just maybe…an opening for a new kind of Democratic Party.”
I wish I had your optimism, but I believe that with the current financial mess, the economy will be the #1 topic and Obama will be able to sing the siren song to the masses quite effectively.
I believe McCain/Palin will fade fast in October and Obama may have close to a 10 point victory in November and the Dems may have as good a year as they did in ‘92 or ‘74/’76.
I am seeing a lot of OVER-optimism on the conservative websites, and I think people need to take seat and rethink how McCain is presenting his arguments, especially on the economy, and see that he is not really winning anyone over to his argument.
Sep 16, 2008 - 8:07 pm 91. ProgMeister:@Herr
@Saltherring
Do you mean “American International Group” is one of “this country’s” largest money-fungus companies? And what do you mean by “nationalize”? Can you be more specific to us rubes?
sure … the short story is the Republican administration cut a deal giving AIG an $85B loan in exchange for an 80% stake in the company. What the typical poster (like Saltherring) around here calls this is socialism.
Sep 16, 2008 - 8:11 pm 92. ProgMeister:@mrkwong:
ProgMeister – I think Ms Fiorina may have seriously wounded any possible cabinet consideration with today’s remark. It was a stupid and utterly false bit of egotism.
there won’t be any cabinet positions for JM to hand out, mrkwong; you have to win the election to earn that privilege
Sep 16, 2008 - 8:13 pm 93. cedarford:Nifong for AG!!
Nifong “Contributes” To Obama
From yesterday’s Herald-Sun:
Even former District Attorney Mike Nifong, who lost his job last year because of the Duke lacrosse scandal, spent much of Saturday morning canvassing homes for the Democratic presidential hopeful.
“He’s the right man at the right time,” said Nifong. “We need to get him elected.”
Local Obama spokesman Paul Cox said later that Nifong “has no official role in the campaign and was not recruited by the campaign. He simply showed up as a volunteer.”
=====================
Remember Jamie Gorelick? (Clinton’s Justice Dept. – wrote the law so CIA/FBI couldn’t share intelligence). She was running Fannie Mae – grabbing her millions(@26) as the books were being cooked. Clinton loosened the regulations on F/F, setting this whole thing up. These two institutions have always been associated with Dems so of course they’ll have the taxpayer bail them out. And we are.
Gorelick did not run Fannie Mae. She was one of many Democrat and Republican hacks that used their clout to waddle up to the feeding trough.
Yes, Clinton loosened the Regs on banks and Wall Street…but only because he sided with the asshole Phil Gramm and bought into the Republican notion that “deregulation was essential to liberate the miracle of unfettered free markets”.
You know, Phil Gramm, McCains #1 economic advisor. That ugly troll has a big part of free trade collapsing US manufacturing with a trillion-dollar annual trade deficit and the rise of China. The high tech stock scams, the housing bubble, the lies and subtrefuge of the scumbags of Wall Street.
And Phil Gramm connivance in setting up rules so all the execs could pack golden parachutes.
That ugly dude damaged America with his ideology like no one. Maybe a case can be made for fellow Texans Dubya, Tom DeLay, and the Whore of the Plains, Denny Hastert. Gramm was so ugly he took an Asian mail order bride he later placed on the Board of Enron.
As baggage, he rates right up there with Rev Wright and Bill Ayers.
Sep 16, 2008 - 8:19 pm 94. ProgMeister:@Tcobb:
And, one more time: your nominees for President and VP are not true conservatives. If it makes you happy, go ahead and call them conservatives or whatever else you want to call them, but for those of us who actually know the difference, it gets tedious. The truth is that you are ONLY conservative when it’s convenient to be so.
Then what do YOU call them? You seem to be the expert on “labels,” so what is your expert opinion?
I call them lying asshole opportunists, speaking strictly professionally
Sep 16, 2008 - 8:19 pm 95. Colorado Hick:Has anyone noticed that liberals never use such terms as character, honor, or integrity when describing one of their own? They must be alien concepts.
Sep 16, 2008 - 8:20 pm 96. ProgMeister:@Bonnie
Libertarians don’t deserve contempt; they are beneath contempt. Don’t want to carry an ID card because it hurts your feelings? Go visit Ground Zero and think it over. Want to legalize pot? Come enjoy the mental clinics filling up with psychotic young men and women who’ve smoked the “harmless” stuff for years. Want to legalize prostitution? Come check out the sex industry and talk to a twelve year old who has been sold to have sex for a living. Pah. Libertarians. Worm dirt, they are.
hey, Bonnie … how about reading Freakonomics or maybe a Joseph Stiglitz text on Economics; I’ve been to Ground Zero MANY times well before and after it was known as Ground Zero … and I know ID cards or lack thereof had nothing to do with it; cardboard cockpit doors are another story
But the point here is: why in hell have you not figured out that criminalization of drugs and prostitution is precisely what creates a thriving illicit market for them? Decriminalize, tax, regulate … just like liquor. You’ve heard about the spectacularly successful social experiment known as Prohibition, right? Hint: it’s in the US Constitution.
btw, Miss Smarty, you won’t find a medical expert alive who thinks marijuana induces psychosis without one or another dependent comorbidity.
Data counts.
Sep 16, 2008 - 8:41 pm 97. Californio:This should be an interesting election. It will be hardest, no matter the outcome, on those who have already had God speak in their ear and pronounce their guy as the winner. While the left and right here will laugh at the wackiness of the other side, neither should be too smug at this point – it is going to be a FUN election!
Sep 16, 2008 - 8:48 pm 98. Judy, NYC:P.S. If you guy loses – Tough Sh*t. He lost it – don’t “blame” the voters. If you cannot get elected, then you didn’t “deserve” the office anyway.
joshC: we don’t give a damn what europeans think of america, you twit. indeed, we always thought of europeans as a bad joke with their soul crushing class system and peculiar reverence for the self-annointed aristocracy. europe is a graveyard. it also has the distinction of never passing up a natural resource it didn’t steal or an indigenous native it didn’t enslave. perhaps someday europeans will stand up against tyranny (as only churchill was able to do for the brits)instead of being complicit. as it stands now, europe is overrun with muslim fascists and as usual europeans are bobbing their heads up and down in agreement with them. if you recall we ran away from europe. immigrants never looked back. and that includes, of course, our founding fathers. so, spare us the eurocrap. and stay the hell out of our political process.
Sep 16, 2008 - 8:50 pm 99. margaret:It wasn’t necessary to put down Senator Kerry in order to build up Senator Obama. And, frankly, I don’t agree with the Smith assessment that Kerry is a pariah with the Democratic party. Perhaps within the DLC and Clinton sec he may be, but they did very little to help him win in 2004 looking ahead to a Hillary run and now they resent him because he supports Senator Obama. Smith also forgets that Senator Kerry still has an active e-mail list of over 3 million donors. These people are still interested in and support Senator Kerry.
Sep 16, 2008 - 8:57 pm 100. William of Orange:Kerry is a leader in our party and his role will be much larger in months and years to come. I think the man deserves some respect for all he has accomplished and all the BS he has endured. He lost a tough presidential race that was very close. We had a war and some people were scared enoogh into voting for Bush again.
Give Senator Kerry a break- he lost, but has picked himself back up and has fought back ever since. He deserves some respect.
..the article’s point has been proven. Notice how shrill the KOS-tools’ posts are.
Sep 16, 2008 - 9:04 pm 101. Tcobb:And, one more time: your nominees for President and VP are not true conservatives. If it makes you happy, go ahead and call them conservatives or whatever else you want to call them, but for those of us who actually know the difference, it gets tedious. The truth is that you are ONLY conservative when it’s convenient to be so.
Then what do YOU call them? You seem to be the expert on “labels,” so what is your expert opinion?
I call them lying asshole opportunists, speaking strictly professionally
Sep 16, 2008 - 9:05 pm 102. Carol191:So there’s really no difference between the two sets of politicians at all then, in your enlightened opinion. I like the phrase “lying asshole opportunists”, it fits Obama/Biden so well. Thank you.
Seeing the possibility we all see, I suspect that Obama’s brownshirts met the last couple of weeks to put their plans in place, calculating the precincts in key states where they can lie, cheat and steal the votes they need. They will stop at nothing. The Dems did it in the state of Washington in 2004, discovering a shoebox of missing votes MONTHS after the election. This will be a coordinated effort, I am sure of it.
You would think with all the coverage implying (Republican) voter fraud in 2000 and 2004, there would be tons of advance reporting, scaring everyone, checking in on the status of the security of our various polls. The media’s silence here shows they know what’s up, CHOOSE to avert their eyes, CHOOSE complicity with ACORN-brained bullies and the lowest of the Democratic Party’s machinery.
The only way to avoid their voter fraud working is for McCain/Palin to win huge, as they surely deserve to do. May the REAL One win.
P.S. I have to laugh at myself because I sound like such a paranoid, but anybody wanna make bets? We’re talking about the most sordid, cynical candidate for President in my lifetime.
Sep 16, 2008 - 9:09 pm 103. Everett:ProgMeister,
Sorry, we do know you. As predictable as every other socialist since the founding of the nation. Everyone one of the messiahs you emulate went down as dismal failures. Obama will also, and your only argument is ridicule. You really are boring.
Sep 16, 2008 - 9:31 pm 104. Michael McNeil:Democrats analogize “community organizer” Obama as equivalent to Christ — and (like the Sanhedrin) they’re ready to impale him and stake him out to dry (“skewer him properly” as Big Tent Democrat in a posting at Talkleft the other day put it) if “The One” proves different from what they imagine the Messiah properly to be.
Indeed, as columnist Mark Shields (who’s been thoroughly in the tank for the Democrats for decades now) asserted on the Newshour with Jim Lehrer a few weeks back, while Republicans can come back after a presidential electoral loss to try again time after time, in the case of the Democrats each candidate for President gets only a single chance with that party (Shields didn’t even lament this supposed fact, but simply states it as a law of Democratic life). If this is so, why not crucify one who has proven (in their eyes), after his one and only anointed chance, to be a False Messiah?
Sep 16, 2008 - 9:45 pm 105. A Clay:What if Obama wins and turns out to be a terrible president? What will that finally invalidate the agenda? Or will it be used to justify racism? In some ways the best outcome for the grievance merchants is for B.O. to lose. Winning could be far worse.
Sep 16, 2008 - 9:59 pm 106. elHombre:When Democrats lose there is no loyal opposition. They cannot accept that their ideology is morally bankrupt and otherwise unappealing — despite the fact that their candidates have to lie about it to get elected. Therefore, the rest of us must be racist, corrupt, stupid, etc.
I think Barack’s own racists and the moonbats will put the republic at risk if he loses. They just can’t take no for an answer and this election is about race and ideology for them (respectively).
Sep 16, 2008 - 9:59 pm 107. m00tpoint:“Obama has already won 7 of the 57 states, McCain has an uphill battle to fight.”
The 7 States:
State of Confusion (teleprompter withdrawal)
State of Bedlam (warming up crowd for German rock concert)
State of Panic (since Palin’s selection)
State of Mind (your manners please, BO!)
State of Being (far left)
State of Illinois (the dead are lined up at the polls)
State of the Union (where inexperience meets charisma — he looks really good saying really little)
m00tpoint
Sep 16, 2008 - 9:59 pm 108. Believer:cedarford — Name the Republicans who’ve made tens of millions off these failures. I only have the names of Dems who’ve made money and destroyed these institutions.
Dems pushed handing mortgages to those who couldn’t really afford them. They were encouraged to grant as many as possible – F/F offering bonuses if they reached their targets. It’s why they were so careless – going for the bonus. They also raised the amounts being loaned beyond what was sensible.
Class warfare being their game, the Dems cried “you hate the poor” if anyone suggested being careful.
As I said, just like in Chicago: Obama’s pals said, “Oh, let’s build housing for the poor.” Only they were uninhabitable. The hell with what happens to those in need. They only used them to get rich. But they’d have you believe they really care.
I’ve heard Chris Dodd, Barney Frank, Schumer(?) — all Dems — no Republicans. Gee, we haven’t heard from Dodd or Frank lately. But ol’ Barney sure was vocal a while back. Told us not to make such a fuss when the alarms started going off about Fannie/Freddie:
Bush even tried to get law passed for a protection agency set up to avoid just what’s happened. Reported in NYTimes – 2005. But Barney Frank objected.
Yeah, I get it. You hate Phil Gramm and he’s not your idea of handsome.
But I’m not buying his involvement in this mess.
This was caused by break-the-rules handouts while corrupt bureaucrats managed to benefit to the tune of tens of millions. And guess what? These socialists get to offer more government involvement to bail them out of the mess they created. Didn’t that work out nicely for them?
Sep 16, 2008 - 10:02 pm 109. Ex-fetus:If there are riots, they won’t be race riots. Remember in cities with mostly black populations, the Mayor is black, as are most of the cops, so any riots will just be go old fashioned looting type riots. A chance to pick up a new flat panel, a digital camera or so other nick nack that glitters. Stolen from black owned businesses. The rioters that get caught will go before a blck judge and have a black attorney represent them.
Sep 16, 2008 - 10:03 pm 110. m00tpoint:So where is the racism ?
“But the point here is: why in hell have you not figured out that criminalization of drugs and prostitution is precisely what creates a thriving illicit market for them? Decriminalize, tax, regulate … just like liquor.”
Tell that to the mayor of Amsterdam, who’s trying to shrink the prostitution business there. The Dutch police seem to have figured out that — shock! — prostitution brings with it human trafficking and other sundry social ills, whether it’s legal or not.
m00tpoint
Sep 16, 2008 - 10:06 pm 111. trangbang68:Margaret,
Sep 16, 2008 - 10:19 pm 112. john from cinncinati:Kerry deserves no respect. He’s a lying,treasonous pool boy.Thank God we were spared the rule of him and the lard ass psychotic Gore.
somebody told me we have a democrat and a socialist running for president.that being the case i’m voting for the democrat.
Sep 16, 2008 - 10:44 pm 113. Ashleigh:Great article. If he loses, there will probably be great despair, outrage, and also denial from his supporters and devout Democrats. I think the way that Sarah Palin was so embraced just shows that yes, there are alot of people who do not embrace liberalism, and yes, alot of those people are women! And the Democrats are dumbfounded, so they have to call her a liar, thinking that we’ve all been duped. How else would it explain someone’s excitement over a conservative, Christian, down-to-earth woman?
I think I’m more scared though of what it’ll be like if he does win (God forbid), and the way it will only empower and enforce the ideaologies of the Democrats. I don’t even think I’ll be able to watch the news on election day because it will be difficult to handle it if Obama wins. If he/they win, I will not resort to insults or outrage, but I know I will feel depressed and very concerned for our nation and its people and its future.
Sep 16, 2008 - 10:56 pm 114. ProgMeister:@Carol191:
P.S. I have to laugh at myself because I sound like such a paranoid
you know why you sound like a paranoid?
Sep 16, 2008 - 10:59 pm 115. Mary in LA:Hey, go easy on JoshC. If I read his comment right, he didn’t say that he held anti-American views himself; he’s just reporting on what he sees around him.
Sep 16, 2008 - 10:59 pm 116. RobertoM:Obama is far left.
America does not elect far left politicians to the presidency.
Americans don’t vote for people that they are not comfortable with.
We like our comfy barcaloungers and Laz-y-boys.
Obama is ScanDesign.
Obama can’t win.
Sep 16, 2008 - 11:16 pm 117. RobertoM:The left and media friends will cause trouble.
@Progmeister
Wow! You’re still posting after 14 hrs?
…aren’t you holding on a little too tight?
Sep 16, 2008 - 11:18 pm 118. ProgMeister:@Believer
This was caused by break-the-rules handouts while corrupt bureaucrats managed to benefit to the tune of tens of millions. And guess what? These socialists get to offer more government involvement to bail them out of the mess they created. Didn’t that work out nicely for them?
shit, you’re as stupid as Palin; this was not the government “giving handouts;” it was private business making garbage loans and then re-selling the same garbage loans to stupid investors who didn’t demand reasonable underwriting and audit standards … and REPUBLICANS engineered and implemented the bailout; THEY socialized the risk just as they did with BEAR and just as they’re doing today with AIG … can you get that through your thick skull? these are executive decisions .. and who’s been running the executive branch for 7 1/2+ LONG years now? can you spell B-U-S-H?
you idiots must listen to right-wing talk radio, take notes and come on these boards and transcribe away … learn something about the financial intermediation process before you post this crap
Sep 16, 2008 - 11:22 pm 119. ProgMeister:@m00tpoint
Tell that to the mayor of Amsterdam, who’s trying to shrink the prostitution business there. The Dutch police seem to have figured out that — shock! — prostitution brings with it human trafficking and other sundry social ills, whether it’s legal or not.
have they? or has Mayor Cohen simply figured out that there are higher economic uses for the brothels? either way, they’ll just drive 1/3 of the trade to another neighborhood since Cohen has no intention of criminalizing prostitution
nice try on your part, though …
Sep 16, 2008 - 11:35 pm 120. Rachel Peepers:I could list all the talked-about-to-death reasons why Obama’s popularity is dropping like John Edwards pants after a documentary filming session, but I won’t. You all know them.
But here’s a reason no one talks much about.
Let’s face it,even if as many as 70 to 80 percent of African Americans were planning to vote for Barack Obama, it would seem to be less a racial thing. Not threatening, but acceptable.
But the latest poll numbers tell us that 95% of black voters will cast their ballot for Obama. That’s too many votes obviously based solely on race. Numbers like that, combined with Barack’s love for Jeramy Wright’s and his unique style of race laced homilies, naturally make white folks uneasy.
These facts make the election seem like a them versus us choice, in large part, in two key states, Virgina and Pennsylvania.
As a result, many white voters in Virgina, Colorado and Pennsylvania in particular, in response to huge racial black vote predictions, will be voting for McCain/Palin (representing the “Us” vote).
Florida and Ohio are now solidly in the McCain camp. New Jersey, New York and everything northeast except for New Hampshire will vote for Obama. Plus, Obama has California, New Mexico and Iowa for sure. McCain has the whole south, Texas included. Obama will get Minnesota and Wisconsin.
All of which ekes out an electoral victory for McCain.
In a year where the Democratic Party had everything going for them (in particular, an unpopular Republican President) they should have won going away.
It was their election to lose. And they did the apparently impossible; they went and lost it.
Obama/Hillary would have clobbered McCain/Palin. The David duo told this to Barack, but Michelle said, “No. We can win without her.” The election was theirs on a silver platter, and they went and ordered chicken nuggets in a box.
Once again, out of the jaws of victory, the Democratic Party is snatching defeat.
Undoubtedly it’s for the best. A Barack/Hillary ticket would have duplicated that same blunder in Iraq.
Granted, McCain/Palin are far from perfect. But the train has left the station and Obama/Biden aren’t on it.
The B/J boys are left standing there checking the election train schedule where they’ll quickly see in black and white that winning tickets won’t be sold for another four years.
In 2012, however, Hillary will be savvy beyond belief. Howard Dean will have been shipped to Siberia for his own safety. And the ticket of Rice/Palin will get creamed by the Democrats who hard as they try to screw things up, this time will fail.
The winning ticket in 2012 will be another United States of America electoral first.
The Campaign signs will read, “Hillary/Bill. The Democratic champagne corks will finally pop.
While back in Illinois, Michelle and Barack, on election night, 2012 will be sitting in their Rezko provided living room, sipping Chardonnay.
Barack will have a cute little Howdy Doody type pensive look on his face. Michelle will be sitting on her French Provincial love seat with what looks like a concrete scowl on her face. They’ll avoid a direct gaze and any political mutterings.
Unlike the Obamas, The “Bums” end-of-another-losing-season battle cry used to be, “Wait’ll next year.” Then next year finally came when Amaros made the catch on Yogi’s fly down the left field foul line. Then, the following inning, the golden boy, Duke Snider, from Compton, Ca, proceeded to park one into the Stadium’s third deck in right, October 4, 1955 and Brooklyn’s beloved bums won their first world series from the Hated Yankees.
But the Obamas, unlike the Dodgers, will not have a next year to look forward to. The Clintons will see to that. While they won’t be banished to Siberia, they’ll be known for squandering victory when it was there for the taking. Dick Daley, to make nice nice with the Clintons will banish Barack from Chicago Politics, and Barack’ll end up getting a teaching job in California. Michelle’s hate mail will eventually slow down to a trickle, she’ll be fired from her cushy overpaid, dirty earmarked obtained hospital job, and she’ll raise her two beautiful daughters.
Irony of ironies. Michelle made the decision that turned the election. McCain pulled the magic rabbit out of the bag. Bill and Hill ran a horrid campaign. And history will say we won the Iraqi war.
The Israelis will destroy Iran’s nuclear capabilities in November, 2008. Russia will scream, but won’t go to war over it. Just back into Georgia. But our economy will continue to sputter and that will in the end be what brings down the McCain/Palin 2012 ticket.
I’m afraid Bill Clinton is destined to be another Mary Todd Lincoln. And Hillary will be a two term President.
Anyway, at 3am in Charleston, Illinois, in my dorm room, with all six of my crystal calls spinning, that’s how I see the future unfolding. Just one girl’s opinion.
I pitched my first softball game tonight. Started. Three innings, gave up two runs, one earned. Not great. But not that bad. I love playing under the lights.
Sep 17, 2008 - 1:06 am 121. Kirk:ProgMeister wrote …
“”"…THEY socialized the risk just… “”"
You know, if you weren’t such a foul mouthed jerk all the time, a bully and overbearing hysterical weirdo, when your right like this, I could almost agree with you.
Too bad you layer it in so much garbage, even if you told me the sky is blue I’d check 3 times.
Sep 17, 2008 - 1:07 am 122. Believer:For info on the F/F fiasco, read:
www,twincities.com/opinion/ci_10449657
“Where Was Dodd While Fannie and Freddie Came Undone?”
Yeah, this administration could have allowed them to fail. But who got us into this mess and who wouldn’t listen to those who expressed concerns years ago – and wanted to act?
The money talked. And who got it? Name one Republican, please. I only see Dems. And Obama right up there with the others at the top of the list.
Sep 17, 2008 - 1:12 am 123. BlueMax372:ProgMeister has lost his grip. Palin Derangement Syndrome or just plain sub-cretinism?
Sep 17, 2008 - 4:14 am 124. Barb:Being from Cleveland, all I can say is that ACORN came in here and signed up tens of thousands of non-existent voters whose addresses are nowhere to be found. The only way I can see Obama winning is by fraud.
Sep 17, 2008 - 4:18 am 125. Chuck Pelto:TO: Colorado Hick
RE: True
Because such concepts require a standard of conduct, i.e., Rules. And once written and recognized, such rules must be adhered too.
This is anathema to these ‘liberals’ as once there are rules, they cannot have the free-play to do whatever they want and explain it as justified.
These so-called Liberals are the epitome of the one rule they abide by….
And that includes such things as lying, cheating, stealing, slander, libel, violence and even murder. In truth, their appellation of ‘liberal’ is a lie. They are not. Instead, they are merely socialists and of the basest form.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
Sep 17, 2008 - 5:07 am 126. Paul:[Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. -- Winston Churchill]
There is a silver lining if Obama loses. All the whining stories of depression, racism, lying and cheating will be endlessly spewed forth in the MSM.
This will cause channels to be changed and subscriptions to be canceled by the millions.
Sep 17, 2008 - 5:30 am 127. Free In Idaho! » Blog Archive » Hippie Liberalism:[...] is spot on If Obama loses–and it is still a big ‘if’–too many liberals will fail to heed the message [...]
Sep 17, 2008 - 6:20 am 128. Ex-fetus:R. Peepers, I don’t think McCain will serve more then 1 term. It will be Saracuda on top of the ticket in ‘12. Not going to guess who she will pick as VP, but they will win. Billery is gone. Try as they might, they will get the blame pinned on them for Ohhh…..BAMA’s humiliation.
Sep 17, 2008 - 6:44 am 129. Tex Taylor:The far left doesn’t get out and mingle. The few I have meet were so obnoxious that they make poor company. So all they ever talk to are other rabid Socialists. So they are completely clueless about what a small minority they are. Most committed leftists spend any time not sleeping eating or earning a living playing politics. So they punch out of their weight class.
They make so much noise and get so much attention, that they think they are more important then they are. Their vote counts just the same as any one vote, so they are always disappointed come election time.
Like ALL socialists, they never forgive. You don’t find Socialists that lose running again. Billery had her chance and blew it. She should have challenged Ohhhh….BAAMA at the convention and allowed the ’supers’ to correct their mistake. She didn’t, thinking ( I guess, she left me off her memo list) that Ohhh…..BAAMA going down in flames would leave her the party. A win by losing plan. I think the far left will blame her, which will make fund raising difficult for them, next cycle.
In that continuing saga of the failed and amoral virtues of 60s progressivism, Progmeister tells us Christian Conservatives can’t win the election.
Maybe so Prog, but ever since one of them was nominated for a V.P. candidate, seems things are a changing. Apparently, it moved the polls more than the European, Matt Damon, Lindsay Lohan, Pam Anderson, Hamas, and Oprah calls for support for your man. But I can understand the confusion, as the Hamas and influential Hollywood show of support had me wavering in my vote for a moment too.
Why don’t you spare us the future groveling and admit Mrs. Palin is lefty’s worst nightmare; especially the lady libs? God fearing, family loving mother, avid sportswoman and gun owner, patriotic and pro-life, military serving son, moose hunter, and good looking; a macrocosm of everything American disdaining libs abhor.
All we need is Lee Greenwood singing “God Bless the USA”, Charlie Daniels on the fiddle, with a big American flag waving in the background, and an Obama loss covered by FOX News. This is the year we might be able to push you and your 60s jet set to the brink of metrosexual ruin as the elite over in Europe watch in horror.
Life is good!
Sep 17, 2008 - 7:05 am 130. surf66:–too many liberals will fail to heed the message that voters have been sending them since 1981. Seventy percent of the country is tired of 1960s liberalism. Indeed many find the hippie vision frightening: A country too ashamed of itself to fight its enemies, too unsure of itself to praise its own history,govern its children or corral its criminals,and too resentful of the rich to allow the economy to make more of them.
Priceless. Liberals in their nutshell.
Sep 17, 2008 - 7:13 am 131. Jim M:Obama is a talented actor. He’s good at reading a script. I have yet to hear anyone inquire who is writing those scripts. Who are the ones behind the curtain? Hello! Anyone home?
Sep 17, 2008 - 7:16 am 132. parenthetical:“Too many think that elections turn on identities, not ideas.”
Gee, where do you think people might get that idea? How about Rick Davis, McCain’s campaign manager:
“This election is not about issues. This election is about a composite view of what people take away from these candidates.”
Sep 17, 2008 - 7:27 am 133. cedarford:(Bush) Believer – cedarford — Name the Republicans who’ve made tens of millions off these failures. I only have the names of Dems who’ve made money and destroyed these institutions.
Open a Forbes 500 Richest Americans List. We can tick off about 80 names that made hundreds of millions to tens of millions off this Fiasco the taxpayer will bail out. 6-% Republican, 40% Democrat. In any hot real estate area, look at the politics of local
developers and investment partnerships that made a killing off the artificial boom in prices.
Bush came to office determined to take these trends even further, to deliver Social Security accounts to Wall Street and target minority communities–traditionally out of the Republican Party’s reach–for easy homeownership. “Under 50 percent of African Americans and Hispanic Americans own a home,” Bush observed in 2002. “That’s just too few.” He called on Fannie Mae and the private sector “to unlock millions of dollars, to make it available for the purchase of a home”–an important reminder that subprime lenders were taking their cue straight from the top.
In 2003 Grover Norquist, the powerful head of the Club for Growth, who enforced the Party Line on Tax Cuts for the Rich – called Bush’s effort to put the poor in subprime homes and disconnect all Americans from Social Security and Medicare with “private ownership pension and medical accounts” they could invest in real estate and the Stock Market –
“Bush’s greatest legacy.”
Of course, Bush’s big thrust to alter Social Security and push supply side and trickledown theory with his official “Ownership Society” failed in 2005 as it was widely seen as another program to benefit the rich and give them the greatest benefit of putting more of their income in “tax-free” private accounts. It failed..
All except the housing bubble, which Republicans and well as Democrats saw as great policy – lots of jobs and mortgage credit even for illegal aliens with no savings.
The architect of this was Phil Gramm. The greatest beneficiaries of this policy were the wealthy developers, the Wall Street financiers, REIT and hedge fund managers (all heavily Republican), and existing wealthy owners of homes that saw their property value double in the Bubble the supply siders created.
Gramm’s genius was including wealthy Democrats in the riches gained…He had no problem with Dems packing their own cronies into Freddie and Fannie through Chris Dodd – pressuring Clinton in turn to sign off on deregulation. The more Democrat fatcats that got rich on Wall Street off subprimes and derivatives and mortgage resale and insurance – the better. The more Democrat investment bastions like Goldman Sachs, Lehman Bros and long-time Dem financiers (nobably powerful Jews like Greenburg of AIG, and the NYC Billionaire real estate magnates and oldline WASP liberals like the Ellis’s and VanHeuvens) the better.
This is more a “both Parties be damned” thing. Republicans like Gramm waved the voodoo economics charm, and this time the Democrats rushed to join at the feeding trough beginning in the early 90s – and tell Dems needing their Big Donor Bucks – it was Game On!
But lest we forget, in Congress from 1994 to 2006, with only a 1-year hiatuse thanks to Jeffords Senate defection – it was not banking and finance Oversight chairs Democrats Barney Frank and Chris Dodd in the lead pushing this corrupt, reckless mess.
It was James Leach, Phil Gramm, Richard Shelby and a cast of two dozen eager Republicans outside a small rebel faction headed by Ron Paul – who called the whole thing “fiscal insanity”.
Yes Obamessiah is second in Fannie and Freddie donations to Committee Head Chris Dodd, of Senators.
Sep 17, 2008 - 7:38 am 134. BMoon:Yes, but the architect of this taxpayer bloodbath to save the rich’s golden parachutes and equity from this latest folly of subprime mansions for ChinaMart store clerks and rampant speculation free of the margin restrictions stock speculators operate on when borrowing to leverage their investments????
Well, that would be Phil Gramm. John MCain’s key economic advisor. Who may become truly radioactive from his mildly radioactive status of calling people complaining about the “sound” economy – “whiners.”
While there will likely be a few blacks of the Wright-Farrakhan stripe, as well as a few rich-kid Ayer=Dorhn wannabees acting out their self-loathing, self-righteous hatred for “AmeriKa” on the streets, surely the most violent response to yet another defeat to the Dem Party’s 50 year addiction to utopian fantasies of the Left will be on the part of the elitist Press. They will simply continue their barrage of Goebellian tactics against Palin and McCain for four more years, and they will continue to lose more audience and credibility. They will further produce another crop of young conservatives as they did back in the 70’s, when millions of youth like myself became dismayed at the insanity of the Anti-War movement and the irresponsible one-sided behavior of the Media.
But the elitist Left cannot help their own self-destruction. It is built into their DNA. Leftism originates from Rousseau’s idea that the state (ie. force) must be absolute in order to bring about “change”, and thus runs through Robespierre’s Terror, to Marx’s cry for violent revolution to Sartre’s grooming of intellectuals like Pol Pot and his cadre of idealistic, Paris-trained, middle class advocates for “change.”
Sep 17, 2008 - 7:41 am 135. deguello:Flyover country and middle america,are about to defeat a corrupt camarilla of stalinist bi-coastal elites.This is the American counterpart to the fall,of the Berlin wall. Liberals might actually emigrate to Europe, or Cuba,or North korea,where they can continue to patronize those who have defeated them,and consigned them to impotent railing, Good riddance!
Sep 17, 2008 - 8:05 am 136. deguello:BMoon: Amen! You got that right brother! Scratch a liberal,find a stalinist!
Sep 17, 2008 - 8:06 am 137. Sandy Salt:There will be no rioting in the streets when Obama loses and there will be no melt down on the left because as long as there is someone to blame and hate the left will be just fine. McCain/Palin did not steal this election and there will of course be voter fraud, but it will have no effect on the end results. Obama and his Democrat buddies lost this election because he shot up to fast and believed his own press. He truly believed he didn’t need Hillary to win this election and dropped her like a hot potato once he thought he was safely in the White House. The Democrats started counting the chickens before they hatched and ran roughshod over many a voter alone the way. Of course the left won’t blame Obama for this defeat they will of course blame those dirty right wingers and the holier than thou churchies. The riots in the streets are not going to happen because people will have a hell of a lot more to worry about for a long time as the economy straightens out.
Sep 17, 2008 - 8:27 am 138. CornFedBeauty:I’m tired of hearing Obama referred to as a Christian. I deny that he is a Christian. What I saw of his church on television resembles no Christianity I’ve ever seen and I think a majority of Christians agree with me.
Sep 17, 2008 - 8:48 am 139. glc:Whatever.
Sep 17, 2008 - 8:51 am 140. Jennifer:I will never forget the day after the 2004 election, when I went to law school like every other day, and nearly everyone was (1) wearing all black, (2) moping around as if their dog had died, and (3) angry at me, a notorious Bush supporter. I lost friends that day because they couldn’t forgive me for my vote (even though my state went for Kerry, as a given).
Of course, the “Why the long face?” t-shirt (with a picture of Kerry’s face on it) probably didn’t help, either.
Sep 17, 2008 - 8:59 am 141. Swede:“Obama, on the other hand, has been well-received around the world.”
And in all 57 states!
Sep 17, 2008 - 9:16 am 142. Ryan27:I think real question is “What will happen to our nation if obama loses”? Nothing will happen. Will just be the same old America we’ve been for the past 8 yrs nothing wrong with that I guess. Americans always needs to label people to separate them from us. what is elitism? Belief in concept of superiority? Maybe you define it differently. Then what is Washington??? I guess the majority of Americans don’t want bright people in the white house. Instead we want someone in their we can have a beer with. Look Can we just start talking about issues, instead of things our nation won’t be talking about after the election please. I’m going to be a first time voter at 22. And I must tell you watching our election process is like watching Americas brain think. And after this election process depending on who wins I might not vote again. what’s the point? maybe that’s a better question.
Sep 17, 2008 - 9:17 am 143. What if Obama Loses? - Southern Maryland Community Forums:[...] resentful of the rich to allow the economy to make more of them. Fair analysis, in my opinion Richard Miniter.com
Sep 17, 2008 - 9:23 am 144. Bill Perron:Astrologically speaking Obama will lose, his decline can be traced exactly to August 1st. wnen there was an eclipse with both the Sun and moon in Leo. That was a very rare occasion and bodes ill for Obama, a Leo. There is no way Obama can win !!!
Sep 17, 2008 - 9:30 am 145. Uncle Bouncy:The reason Democrats keep losing is they out think themselves on who to nominate and keep picking buffoons and a$$ clowns as candidates
Sep 17, 2008 - 9:34 am 146. syn:“The evangelicals may be excited by Sarah Palin but a woman who takes from the oil companies and gives to the people”
Progmeister, you need some education as your comment exposes your severe ignorance.
Severance tax is not the same thing as the bogus ‘crude oil windfall profit’ tax established under Jimmy Carter which was eventually removed in 1988 under Reagan.
Sep 17, 2008 - 9:35 am 147. Gun Totin Bible Thumper:“if, however, “conservative” means that a rape victim must — as a matter of law — bear the child of the rapist…”
Sep 17, 2008 - 9:36 am 148. m00tpoint:Can you explain to me why the child of the rapist must get the death penalty for something he or she was not responsible for, or pay for the crime of the rapist? I’m not unfeeling for the woman who was raped, it is a terrible thing. But rape is not a death penalty for the rapist, why is it for an innocent child? THAT’s the problem I have with liberals. Well, one of the problems anyway.
Regarding the demonized Gramm … first of all, the main thing the bill did was remove the wall between commercial and investment banks. If that had not been done, there would have been no way for Chase to acquire Bear, or for BoA to acquire Merrill. The crisis, in other words, would be WORSE, not better, without that change.
The part of the bill that did contribute to the problem was the provision, demanded by the Clinton Administration, that the banks involved must play in the Community Reinvestment world — they were required to make loans they otherwise would not have wanted to make in distressed urban areas where there were/are few truly qualified borrowers.
Community reinvestment drove down underwriting standards, Fannie and Freddie were deeply involved in it. (When I worked at FNMA for a year as an IT contractor, I can’t tell you how much low-income/shaky-credit consumer-oriented marketing material I saw assuring people that they could get a loan for a house. The standards were definitely lowered.)
Those lowered standards then enabled middle class gamblers to buy more house than they could afford, on no money down, interest only, no doc, 5-year balloon payment loans, and make money when the price of the house rises 8-10%/year. After all, housing prices don’t ever go down, do they? And if something bad happens … well, they don’t have any skin in the game anyway.
Mortgage brokers don’t care whether or not the loan payments will come in, as long as someone will take the flip when the loan is complete.
Fannie and Freddie have been a gravy train for former political types. No bank could really compete with them — how do you compete with someone who has the U.S. Treasury behind them?
The upshot is … none of the players were motivated by self-interest to accurately assess risk on these loans. No one wanted to get off the gravy train. Historically low interest rates and inadequate underwriting standards drove historic highs in home ownership. Market demand drove prices way too high. The fact that the income tax code subsidizes mortgage interest motivated people to take home equity loans instead of other types of loans, so the banks owned an every-higher percentage of the risk in the housing market. And now the bubble bursts.
m00t
Sep 17, 2008 - 9:37 am 149. Just Some Guy:This is an important essay that will be discussed and analyzed for years.
Sep 17, 2008 - 9:53 am 150. Sandy Salt:m00tpoiont,
Sep 17, 2008 - 9:56 am 151. Day 19, After Sarah:Great discussion on how we came to be where we are. The question is who is actually going to be held responsible and who is going to jail. The sad answer is maybe one or two token investment bankers who were extra greedy, but the industry as a whole will walk away richer than ever and the US taxpayer will be left holding the bag again. I will keep saying it, you need real consequences if you are going to change greedy human nature. People are inherently selfish and greedy. If you don’t want them to take advantage of stupid people then you need strong laws that prevent such actions. Call it regulation or whatever, but it appears that people are just too stupid to be allowed to make their own decisions when it comes to money.
On Palin and oil: Alaska is a commonwealth, so to the Palin administration that means that those finite resources belong to the people of Alaska. So she renegotiated the illegal kickback deals that put a couple good old boys in prison. Most importantly, the new deal price the finite resource with the market, so as oil goes up in price so does the price of the lease. In short, Alaskans will not be left holding $24 of beads as oil barons go laughing to the bank. Secondly, the price of the deal goes down if the resource gets developed. Not enough to take away from the Alaskans but enough to make it worthwhile to the oil companies to both bid on a lease and to develop it. Again, a smart negotiation. And, of course, there’s a direct fee for each barrel so as the resource is consumed, there is a steady cash flow to the state. In other words, the lease is not just a simple flat fee. Lastly, some of the money is sent to Alaskans directly. Ever gotten cash from a finite resource in your state? Probably not; you don’t ‘own’ it. Alaskans, on the other hand, do.
Prompted by “but a woman who takes from the oil companies and gives to the people, and who now promises a crackdown on CEO pay, is no conservative”.
I would rather Palin has a hand in future offshore drilling deals than Obama/Biden. I don’t think Obama could half as well.
Sep 17, 2008 - 10:02 am 152. m00tpoint:@ProgMeister,
You ask, “Have they?” Yes, they have. Mayor Cohen is shrinking the prostitution business in Amsterdam due to human trafficking, money laundering, and other bad things.
http://www.expatica.com/nl/life_in/feature/Amsterdam-decides-not-to-do-business-with-prostitutes.html
http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-6479.html
You say, “Cohen has no intention of criminalizing prostitution.” I never said he did. I did say that prostitution brings human trafficking and other social ills with it whether it’s legal or not. The situation in Amsterdam (and elsewhere) bears out the assertion.
m00t
Sep 17, 2008 - 10:03 am 153. deguello:About possible rioting in the streets in case of an Obama defeat: that’s why we have a second amendment; I say: bring it on! It was leftist rioting that gave us the sixties garbage;it may take the repression of rioting to finally end them.
Sep 17, 2008 - 10:04 am 154. Believer:cedarford — I appreciate your response. And I want to assure you I’ve had my problems with Bush over the past 7plus years. Voting for him was a result of him being the lesser of two evils.
I remember liking the idea that he wanted to extend home ownership to those who’d never known it. But I would have thought – and hoped – that more care would have been taken in the process. Regulation is needed, but I think it needs to be done with care.
Deregulation occurred on Clinton’s watch. I have a hard time believing a Republican talked him into it. And the article at “twincities” does say that Bush and his administration tried more than once to rectify what (rightly) looked to them like a dangerous situation with F&F.
The statements by Frank and Dodd were outrageous.
I think you’d have to agree your statement that Bush tried to “disconnect all Americans from Social Security and Medicare” is not a fair one. It would have been optional. You lost a good measure of credibility with that one.
I’m not at all happy that we’re bailing these guys out. I hope there are investigations. But what I hear from Obama is attempts to redirect attention from the evil that went on at F&F — to protect himself and his party. He actually received the MOST money considering the short amount of time he’s been getting it compared to the others.
And he wants us to believe he’s not taking money from these guys. That he can’t be bought. That he’s a different kind of politician.
No, I heard him yesterday. Trying to wrap it all up as Bush’s fault. Well, with the trouble we’re in right now, his plan to tax – and spend – could very well collapse the whole economy.
Now that would please one of his other benefactors, George Soros. Isn’t he the one who’s brought down other economies before? Nice guy. Plenty of money. Just Barry’s type.
Sep 17, 2008 - 10:05 am 155. Volkmeister:We all know what will happen if Obama loses. The liberals, left-leaning commentators, leftist actors/musicians/artists/bohemians, et.al. will go nuts. Michelle Obama won’t be proud of America anymore, either. Democrat/liberal “journalists” like Jack Cafferty, Chris Matthews, Keith Olbermann, Diane Sawyer, Katie Couric will have special segments decrying the election and imply that Rebublina “dirty tricks” and smears were the reason and, of course, racist American in the red states will be blamed. It will be an orgy of hate. Michael Moore and his Hollywood leftist friends will make movies about it and documentaries will explore the Republican “hate machine” that defeated the Chosen One. We all know it will happen.
Can’t you just wait for the ABC program that will interview some Florida residents who say they were turned away from the polls, or coulden’t understand the ballot? Don’t you know that Jessie Jackson, Al Sharpton and the rest of the racist “poverty pimps” will be on the tube saying how racists Americans are?
The liberals, socialists, anarchists, eco-envirowackos, the DailyKos and HuffPo crowd will go nuts. I think McCain will be a big target, but Sarah Palin wil be the main target because she’s pro-life, a Christian, a hunter, and she fundamentaly changed the dynamic of the Republican campaign. The networks and netroots will go after her with ferocity never seem before (at least since G.W. Bush). She will be the next “Dick Cheney” to the left. Every nutjob in Alaska who does not like her, or lost his/her job, or is poor, will be interviewed in order to destroy her.
That’s what we have in store for us if Obama loses.
Sep 17, 2008 - 10:06 am 156. Self-hating boomer:CornFedBeauty – indeed. And to all the leftists who think TUCC is just ducky, let me throw one of your bumper-sticker slogans in your face: “hate is not a family value”.
Sep 17, 2008 - 10:07 am 157. Rosie O'Donnell:I hate Sarah Palin. Nuf said.
Sep 17, 2008 - 10:09 am 158. Glendower:“Too many think that elections turn on identities, not ideas.”
And perhaps elections should. Perhaps character should be king.
Every candidate issues pronouncements about every wonderful thing he will do in office, or how he will respond to a crisis here as opposed to there…except that it’s impossible to predict all of the crises, much less the exact circumstances which will prevail when the crisis occurs. For this reason judicial nominees refuse to say how they would decide hypothetical cases.
Politicians can’t exercise that privilege. They have to say something. But I believe that it was Robert Novak who advised a young reporter to watch what politicians do, not what they say. “Words are easy, deeds are hard.”
I will never vote for a candidate simply because he or she says, “If elected, I will do A, B, and C.” Those statements could simply be window-dressing, like Obama’s recent promises about charter schools and teacher accountability.
And circumstances or events 15 minutes after the swearing-in might negate even the possibility of implementing any of those promises. “I will cut defense spending.” Not if a hijacked airplane flies into the Sears Tower.
Every candidate has ideas, but events may control the officeholder more than he or she controls events, as Lincoln lamented…in which case the candidate’s character might become the officeholder’s most important asset.
Sep 17, 2008 - 10:12 am 159. m00tpoint:Sandy,
I agree with your premise … people are selfish and greedy, and greed makes them stupid as well. I disagree with your conclusion that the answer is additional regulation.
Federal housing laws and community reinvestment are regulation, for example. It was (and still is) a policy of the federal government to force banks to make shaky loans in the name of non-discrimination. To make the necessary loans, it was basically required to dramatically lower down-payment requirements, for example. I still remember when I was house-shopping 10-15 years ago, and was quite surprised to find out that the old “20% down” rule basically was gone. It was a good rule, to make sure the buyers had skin in the game. It would have cut deeply into people’s ability to get in over their heads.
The federal government should not be telling banks which loans they must make if they want to do business with FNMA. (And if you couldn’t, you pretty much could not write mortgages — you had no one to turn to to market the paper.) The federal government should never, ever have put the US Treasury’s credit behind allegedly private enterprises like Fannie and Freddie, which meant that no truly private competition could ever emerge to keep the market honest. How do you compete with the US Treasury?
In other words, in my judgment, over-regulation was a bigger problem than under-regulation.
m00t
Sep 17, 2008 - 10:26 am 160. Trish:Ah, what to do if Obamessiah loses.
Sep 17, 2008 - 10:30 am 161. Kelly:Already we are witnessing Republican/Conservative Derangement Syndrome. It’s a progressive disease, beginning with Bush Derangement Syndrome, and now advancing into a condition even psychiatrists are still trying to figure out.
I almost pity the leftists when Obama loses, It’s not going to be pretty.
By the way, if he does lose, doesn’t it also mean that there are racist anti-white’s out there? Should white people riot in the streets too, then? He is after all, half white…
Corn-fed Beauty…I completely agree. How can a Christian be in favor of abortion? It is like Rosie O’ Donnell shutting her fat face. Just doesn’t happen.
Sep 17, 2008 - 10:35 am 162. Fred T.:What the American Socialist Party (Dems) and their kool-aid drinkers always failed to comprehend is that it is not their failure to get their “message” out to the unwashed masses that defeats them.
It is the content of their meaage:
Socialism
Blame America First
Despise the troops and patriotism
Go figure!
Sep 17, 2008 - 10:36 am 163. FLawyer:You didn’t even back up your conclusion that racism will be the reason for Obama’s loss. Hence, you have no basis for concluding it. Additionally, you completely dismiss the possibility that racism will help him win. You sir are the racist, and the reason why race is even an issue this election. America is mostly divided b/t two ideologies. If people aren’t voting on those ideologies (issues), than they’re voting on the all-around character of the candidate – not merely his color of skin. Your conclusion is a short-sighted generalization about half of the nation which, if true, must be true of the other half of the nation as well.
Sep 17, 2008 - 10:36 am 164. Javelin:“I have never seen a liberal admit being wrong about anything. Even the Farmer’s Almanac cites a cooling trend for the next 50 years, and yet the global warming alarmists won’t concede. Al Gore declared we had 10 years left before end-of-days. Three down, seven to go, Al.
Remember, liberalism is largely founded on the need for people to feel good about themselves. At its very heart is a narcissism; the presidential race is about ego-driven vs. purpose-driven agendas; as exhibit, when Palin said about Obama, “this is a man who authored two memoirs, but not a single piece of legislation.” The crowd went nuts.
Sep 17, 2008 - 10:41 am 165. Black powers:”
You are a libertarian? You sound like some right wing Limbo head who only “knows” liberals as straw mans that clever people like you can knock down with your pointless anecdotes.
[...] Miniter, “What if Obama loses?” [To the Dem base] Obama is much more than Kerry could ever be. Obama’s biography is straight out [...]
Sep 17, 2008 - 10:45 am 166. Sandy Salt:m00tpoint,
I agree that a balance must be struck in the regulation game because you are right about over-regulation being a worse problem. I do truly believe that if you look at mortgage lenders like Navy Federal Credit Union with their strict rules and no mortgage selling, you have a model for the kind of honest regulation. They make loans to some of the poorest people in the country (junior military) and yet are having no issues in the current crisis because they set reasonable limits on the amount they were willing to lend and required proof of ability to pay it back. I really don’t believe that this is too much to ask of a mortgage lender or a buyer. Since now I am in charge of the largest mortgage lenders in the country I should have the right to demand the same level of care is taken. I am only demanding what is sensible. If you can’t sell over inflated priced houses to people that can’t afford them because they can’t get a mortgage then maybe you sell houses for what they are worth to people that can afford them. Seems pretty simple to me, but in the world of greed that just doesn’t make sense.
Sep 17, 2008 - 10:47 am 167. m00tpoint:Sandy,
Your solution involves far too much common sense to actually be implemented. God forbid that the people who actually make the loans actually lose money if they do their jobs poorly.
m00t
Sep 17, 2008 - 11:02 am 168. ak:Tcobb–
“You’re right–and THAT bothers them more than anything else. It is not that you disagree with them, it is the fact that they perceive that what they have to say has little or no weight in the opinions of most Americans.”
Since about five minutes after WWII ended in Europe, we’ve been listening to ugly, hateful, and pointless anti-Americanism. It’s meant as nothing but an insult. Is this what we’re supposed to be taking to heart? Not, “I disagree with these policies, and I’d like to discuss them,” but “Americans are such stupid, racist, obese, bible-thumping, gun-toting assholes that we think they’re the biggest danger to Western civilization.” Is that what we’re supposed to be taking seriously? Pfft. Europeans who indulge themselves in that kind of idiotic anti-Americanism have squandered the right to expect to be taken seriously.
And please don’t give me the “but that’s not really what the majority say” b.s. I lived in Europe. I saw this kind of anti-Americanism it every day in the media and heard some permutation of it every day on the lips of everyone from educated colleagues to the teenager at the local news agent. I can count on one hand the number of times I heard any rational approach to a policy discussion.
Sep 17, 2008 - 11:05 am 169. John Blake:Election ‘08 represents not only a cultural but a generational divide: By Rule of 36, we’re dealing with spoiled-brat Boomer residues born c. 1950. Once past this cycle, the Class of 1976 will be less skewed towards drugs, sex, draft dodging (how could they be more?).
By 2016, when the first Boomer cohort turns seventy (born 1946) and faces substantive rollbacks of medical and pension “entitlements” –all premised on someone else’s bill-paying– D-rat squeals will rise to heaven. But like the current banking crisis, an overdue reaction to home-wrecking schemes post-1998, Boomers will find their selfish grabs negated by reality: Social Security may dispense each and all $10,000 per month, but that green paper won’t buy a loaf of bread.
Defeatism, dependency, and dhimmitude sums up D-rat multi-culti, hate-America attitudes propagated by their Billionaire Boys’ Club of perpetual incumbents, unaccountable place-holders that “eat out our substance” (Jefferson). McCain ain’t no saviour, but we could see Palin and Jindal administrations reaching to 2032. At that point, a restructured Democrat Party might promote a functional candidate professing America’s peace and prosperity as a first priority– just don’t count on it.
Sep 17, 2008 - 11:14 am 170. Mick Kraut:Of course Obama has been well received. He exhibits the same embarrassment of his country as his supporters…The Europeans LOVE a chastened and humbled USA almost as much as American liberals and socialists. The day the US uses world opinion as a positive barometer for electing their leaders is the day the US dies.
Sep 17, 2008 - 11:17 am 171. Cybergeezer:What choice is there, really? A race and class war and other chaos within our great country, or a world war and loss of respect in the global financial world since Obama and his motley crew have no knowledge of, or responsibility for, fiscal responsibility.
Sep 17, 2008 - 11:18 am 172. Sandy Salt:The entire Obama campaign thinks the majority of the American people are stupid!
You are probably right. The governement should allow them to be greatly mismanaged and pay their executives huge bonuses before they take the company over using taxpayer dollars to solve the problem.
Sep 17, 2008 - 11:25 am 173. FJ:SEN Obama was handed the election on a silver platter — all he had to do was select SEN Clinton as his Veep and the rest would be history…
Oh, well – no *do overs* in politics I guess.
Sep 17, 2008 - 11:27 am 174. RandyOSU:Liberal you say? How about this for a liberal heritage: A father (B Hussein Sr.) who is a man-whore with kids and women across the globe, a hippie mother who sows seeds with several muslim men on several coasts, and an indoctrination from liberal elite schooling to southside Chicago wealth distribution marxism.
And this is what the left thinks America wants to lead our great nation?
Sep 17, 2008 - 11:28 am 175. myth buster:Hillary Clinton would trounce Rice/Palin in 2012, but there is zero possibility of that being the Republican ticket. Holding other things constant, the Republican nominee for President in 2012 will be either Sarah Palin or Mike Huckabee, and either one of them would beat Hillary or Obama by margins not seen since Reagan.
Sep 17, 2008 - 11:33 am 176. RichardMiniter.com: What if Obama Loses? « Stop Dog Whistle Racism!:[...] What if Obama Loses? Even a few weeks ago, that question would have been a punchline. Now it is a legitimate inquiry. In our 50-50 nation, the election could go either way. [...]
Sep 17, 2008 - 11:38 am 177. Brian:Obama is loved around the world because they know he will cave to them. I wouldn’t consider that a positive.
Sep 17, 2008 - 11:40 am 178. Ruby:When the conservative says liberals don’t get our point of view about Obama because of his resume, that’s what they are talking about. He has no experience. Liberals go straight to baby killing as an excuse to elect Obama.
Palin has more experience than Obama. America by large majority agrees with that. If I were a liberal, I’d stop bringing that up.
Global warming and Gore have been totally debunked. In England they passed laws outlawing presenting some of the key points in documentary. If Gore had any honor he would give the money back.
As a Black Afro American woman I am disgusted with Obama and the news commentators that claim you are a racist if you do not support him! Here in Chicago he did nothing for us accept to stick his palm out to be greased. We have the worst schools yet he send his children to a private one. He takes huge campign money from the teachers unions. the people he associated with were criminals drug dealers and anti americans. We are not racist but smart discerning voters who know the difference between a trash liar and a honest man. We are voteing for McCain. Just watch the numbers fro Illinois.
Sep 17, 2008 - 11:42 am 179. Night Owl:Mary in L.A. said:
“Hey, go easy on JoshC. If I read his comment right, he didn’t say that he held anti-American views himself; he’s just reporting on what he sees around him.’
FWIW I agree.
Kevin C. said:
“However, can we get the word out that Americans could not care less about European anti-Americanism? The only annoying thing about it is having to hear people talk about it.”
That statement made me smile because it reminded me of the following:
During the 2004 election my husband had to go to Canada on business. At one point, some of the Canadians started to talk about the US election. According to my husband, they were quite free with their contempt for Bush and Americans who wold vote for him. One went so far as to call Bush’s mother the “c” word. The tried-and-true anti-American rhetoric flowed freely. My husband, an unflappable man from Missouri, whose manner at most times has the warmth and depth of emotion as Mr. Spock, stayed silent through the whole discussion.
When they finally ran out of steam, one man turned to my husband and said, “It must be disturbing to Americans to know that people can have such negative opinions about their country.” My husband, in the spirit of another native Missourian, Samuel Clemens, turned to the man and deadpanned, “Not really. Most times, it doesn’t cross our minds that you even exist.”
Sep 17, 2008 - 11:44 am 180. morton from vienna:If Obama loses it is NOT a rejection of his principles. I work in the media and I know tihs to be a fact. It will be another stolen election. This time it will be stolen because the republicans can’t steal money with Obama’s worldview and especially because HE IS BLACK. His blackness scares the republican who are bigots and southerners who are racist.
The question is what if he wins? If he wins, the racist republicans and southerners will commit mass suicide. That’s an untenable situation so obviously, the election will be stolen by you crooks and I will make sure every second of it is covered in my workplace.
Sep 17, 2008 - 11:49 am 181. Michael Canzano:The “D” after a politicians name doesn’t just stand for “Democrat”. It stands for Dispicable, Dangerous , Dishonest and Dopey.
Sep 17, 2008 - 11:53 am 182. Kenny:American Christian Infidel
Michael Canzano
Well Morton, start filming.. The Democrats are falling like domino’s..
=====================================================================
“ARLINGTON, Virginia, Sept. 17 /Standard Newswire/ — Today the McCain-Palin campaign announced the endorsement of Lynn Forester de Rothschild, a prominent Hillary Clinton supporter and member of the Democratic National Committee’s Platform Committee.
“In an election as important at this, we must choose the candidate who has a proven record of bipartisanship and reforming government, and that’s John McCain,” Rothschild said. “We can’t afford a president who lacks experience and judgment and has never crossed party lines to work for meaningful reform. Amid tough economic times and foreign policy concerns, we need someone who is ready to lead. Although I am a Democrat, I recognize that it’s more important to put country ahead of party and that’s why I support John McCain.”
Rothschild, an attorney and businesswoman, supported Sen. Clinton during the Democratic primaries. She will campaign for Sen. McCain through Election Day.”
Sep 17, 2008 - 11:59 am 183. Sandy Salt:Morton,
You are just being silly now aren’t you. Your comments smack of racism and the election will be won be whomever the Supreme Court chooses, right?
Sep 17, 2008 - 11:59 am 184. Ruby:Amen sister Betty. You are a breath of fresh air. I agree with you. Obama is crying racism and making people more hateful of whites. Whites are tired of the old racism defense. Obama is a preacher of hate like Rev. Wright and Farakhan. You are not alone their are many brothers and sisters with you. We are tired of the old white plantation owner’s liberal democrats keeping us down. Look at the Asians, Indians, Europeans who are successful. They have not submitted to these liberals and their slave owner doctrines the suppress us with.
Sep 17, 2008 - 12:04 pm 185. Jasemin:You are judged by the company you keep. Looking at Obama and Biden you see Tony Rizo who is convicted in jail, William Ayers the bomber, Rev. Wright and Farakahn the racist. The liberal media who slanders an all American woman Sara Palin and her 17 year old daughter. Then attacks her qualifications which means they are attacking all women. Obama can’t speak with out a teleprompter which means someone else is telling him what to say. Sara Palin has an 80 percent approval rating by hundred of thousands who put their stamp of approval on her. Now the entire country approves of her. The Democrat party has been taken over by socialists and the insane. Their idea of a qualified woman is a hard core lesbian! The Bible sums it up They are evil haters of God and despisers good.
Sep 17, 2008 - 12:05 pm 186. smoothjim:Cletus:
Didn’t one guy kill himself because he couldn’t stand another 4 years of Bush?
Sep 16, 2008 – 1:16 pm
Thin the herd.
Chalk another one up for evolution.
———
ak:
Tcobb–
“You’re right–and THAT bothers them more than anything else. It is not that you disagree with them, it is the fact that they perceive that what they have to say has little or no weight in the opinions of most Americans.”
Since about five minutes after WWII ended in Europe, we’ve been listening to…………
………….And please don’t give me the “but that’s not really what the majority say” b.s. I lived in Europe. I saw this kind of anti-Americanism it every day in the media and heard some permutation of it every day on the lips of everyone from educated colleagues to the teenager at the local news agent. I can count on one hand the number of times I heard any rational approach to a policy discussion.
Sep 17, 2008 – 11:05 am
The only thing that sets Europeans flaming even more than the local American presence-and this is true throughout the continent- is news of the local US Base shutting down. Makes a BRAC hearing look like a church social.
As James Garner’s Charlie Madison said in The Americanization of Emily, Europe was a going brothel years before we came to town.
Sep 17, 2008 - 12:11 pm 187. m00tpoint:Sandy,
A thought occurs to me … what if the tax code were amended? What if mortgage interest for any property with less than 20% owner equity at time of purchase isn’t tax deductible? And the tax receipts went directly to pay down the bailout costs from the current train wreck, so that the congresscritters can’t spend it on bridges?
m00t
Sep 17, 2008 - 12:15 pm 188. Robert:Lehman Brothers: Obama’s Rezko-Auchi conflict of interest
By Andrew Walden @ 11:19 AM :: 137 Views
Democratic Presidential candidate Barack Obama was quick to blame the bankruptcy of Wall Street giant Lehman Brothers on Republicans’ “failed philosophy”. Obama’s September 15 comments were repeated throughout the media–yet reporters have not noted Obama’s glaring conflict of interest—the Lehman debt owed to a bank owned by the financier who loaned millions of dollars to Tony Rezko.
Jockeying among the other debtors seeking repayment under Chapter 11 bankruptcy rules is BNP Paribas, a large French bank whose largest single private shareholder is Nadhmi Auchi’s General Mediterranean Holdings (GMH). BNP Paribas is owed $250 million by Lehman.
Nadhmi Auchi is an Iraqi whose Baathist ties go back to 1959. A formerly high-ranking official in Iraq’s Oil Ministry, Auchi left Iraq at the end of the 1970s. His wealth then grew exponentially as a procurer of arms for Saddam Hussein’s government during the Iran–Iraq war. He is now one of the richest men in Britain. Saddam Hussein in 1995 selected BNP, which later merged with Paribas, as the sole conduit bank handling Oil-for-Food transactions. This Clinton-era arrangement was changed in 2001 by the incoming Bush administration.
Auchi was also a key financial backer for Chicago political fixer and dual US-Syrian citizen Tony Rezko. This writer explained the complex web of relationships in an August 24 article titled, “Iraqi Billionaire Threatens Reporters Investigating Rezko Affair”:
A secret $3.5 million loan from an Auchi company to key early-money Barack Obama fundraiser Antoin Rezko was exposed while Rezko was awaiting trial on fraud and money-laundering charges earlier this year. Rezko’s bail was revoked and police showed up banging on the doors of his Wilmette Chicago mansion to drag him off to jail early in the morning of January 28th. Auchi’s loan to Rezko had come on May 23, 2005 but had not been disclosed to the Court as required in his bail agreement. Three weeks later, on June 15, 2005, Rezko’s wife assisted the Obamas in the purchase of their South Chicago mansion by purchasing a next-door undeveloped lot being sold with the house.
According to the Times of London, “Mr. Rezko’s lawyer said his client had ‘longstanding indebtedness’ to Mr. Auchi’s General Mediterranean Holding (GMH). By June 2007 he owed it $27.9 million. Under a Loan Forgiveness Agreement described in court, M. Auchi lent Mr. Rezko $3.5 million in April 2005 and $11 million in September 2005, as well as $3.5 million transferred in April 2007. That agreement provided for the outstanding loans to be ‘forgiven’ in return for a stake in the 62-acre Riverside Park development.”
Rezko’s relationship with Barack Obama goes back to at least 1990, when Obama’s law firm did work relating to thousands of now-decaying Rezko apartment units in South Chicago. Rezko was a key early-money fundraiser in Obama’s state Senate campaigns and his failed run at the U.S. Congress.
According to The Times of London, “Mr. Auchi first met Mr. Rezko after the 2003 Iraq war and they have a business relationship.” At the time Auchi was facing the possibility of extradition to France. The Times of London explains: “Mr Auchi was convicted of corruption, given a suspended sentence and fined £1.4 million in France in 2003 for his part in the Elf affair, described as the biggest political and corporate scandal in post-war Europe. He, in a statement from his media lawyers, claims he is appealing against the sentence.”
In 2003, Nick Cohen of the UK Guardian wrote:
Allow me to introduce you to Nadhmi Auchi. He was charged in the 1950s with being an accomplice of Saddam Hussein, when the future tyrant was acquiring his taste for blood. He was investigated in the 1980s for his part in alleged bribes to the fabulously corrupt leaders of post-war Italy. In the 1990s, the Belgium Ambassador to Luxembourg claimed that Auchi’s bank held money Saddam and Colonel Gadaffi had stolen from their luckless peoples. In 2002, officers from the Serious Fraud Squad raided the offices of one of Auchi’s drug companies as part of an investigation of what is alleged to be the biggest swindle ever of the (British National Health Service). With allegations, albeit unproven, like these hanging over him, wouldn’t you think that British MPs would have the sense to stay away?
One might think Obama would also stay away, but in truth it is only the US media who are ducking this story. While ideological bias and a predisposition towards inanity might explain some of the media ignorance, the August 24 article cites another cause:
Working for Auchi… attorneys from London law firm Carter-Ruck have for several months been flooding American and British newspapers and websites with letters demanding removal of material they deem “defamatory” to their client.
In its June 28 edition, British satirical magazine Private Eye explains: “Until Carter-Ruck and Partners and England’s stifling libel laws got to work, the few American journalists not caught up in Obama-mania were turning to the archives of the British press to answer an intriguing question: who is Nadhmi Auchi?”
What is so “stifling” about English libel law? In the U.K., as Carter-Ruck explains on its own website, “A libel claimant does not have to prove that the words are false or to prove that he has in fact suffered any loss. Damage is presumed.”
The Obama campaign recently issued a non-denial denial in response to claims that Obama met with Auchi―contained in Jerome Corsi’s bestseller, The Obama Nation. They cited only two references. One is, “Mr. Auchi’s lawyer” who told the February 27, 2008 London Evening Standard, “As far as he can remember he has had no direct contact with Mr. Obama.” Another is, “A lawyer for Auchi, Alasdair Pepper” who says, according to the April 16, 2008 Washington Post, “Auchi Had ‘No Recollection’ Of Meeting Obama or Michelle.” Alasdair Pepper is the attorney whose name appears on the Carter-Ruck demand letters.
Here are some questions reporters should be asking Barack Obama:
Senator Obama: Lehman Brothers owes over $250 million to a bank owned in part by Nadhmi Auchi’s holding company. Auchi was a key financial backer of Tony Rezko. Sources indicate you met Auchi twice when he visited Chicago in 2004. If elected, how will your relationship with Rezko and Auchi affect your policy towards Lehman Brothers?
Senator Obama: There are reports that Nadhmi Auchi was in 2004-2005 seeking US residency while appealing his French court conviction in the ELF-Aquitaine case. If elected, would you look favorably on a US residency application from Auchi?
Senator Obama: You stated that the Lehman bankruptcy shows that Americans cannot afford four more years of the Republicans’ “failed philosophy”. Can Americans afford a President whose home was purchased with the assistance of now-convicted-felon Tony Rezko, a man characterized as having “permanent indebtedness” to Nadhmi Auchi?
Sep 17, 2008 - 12:18 pm 189. Sandy Salt:That would be a good idea, but there would have to be a military exemption because a lot of the young sailors and soldiers don’t have 20% equity and we definitely don’t want to make their lot any tougher.
Sep 17, 2008 - 12:18 pm 190. Stan the Man:“”And … let’s not forget that just today Ms. Fiorina said that neither Mr. McCain nor Ms. Palin have the wherewithal to run a company like Hewlett Packard … “”.
It is obvious that Progmeister is a paid stealth blogger for George Soros. He only knows about – or wants us to know about — the first part of the above quote, not the second part, said less than a second later. — that neither Obama nor Biden could run a company either.
Why do we need to seek and have approval from some people in other countries who are obviously jealous of our success.
Some Europeans are also victims of the left-leaning America-hating press. They believe the negatives about America because they want to believe these things. And just like some Democrats here, even when presented with provable facts to the contrary, they still hold onto the original lie, like, “And … let’s not forget that just today Ms. Fiorina said that neither Mr. McCain nor Ms. Palin have the wherewithal to run a company like Hewlett Packard …” .
–Stan the Man
Sep 17, 2008 - 12:23 pm 191. What if Obama Loses? - Page 4 - Southern Maryland Community Forums:[...] resentful of the rich to allow the economy to make more of them. Fair analysis, in my opinion Richard Miniter.com
Sep 17, 2008 - 12:46 pm 192. stas peterson:Democrats looted Fannie Mae.
Democrats looted Freddie Mac.
Democrats looted Pritzker’s bank.
Democrats looted Lehman Brothers.
Democrats forced the Iraqis to sign oil contracts with China.
Democrats looted the public for uninhabitable “affordable housing” in Chicago.
The leading Democrat looters were: Obama, Dodd, Daley, Rezko, Raines, Johnson, Gorelik, Schumer, Frank, and a cast of several score more. (Rangel, Reid, etc.)
Sep 17, 2008 - 1:14 pm 193. ProgMeister:@Stan The Man
“”And … let’s not forget that just today Ms. Fiorina said that neither Mr. McCain nor Ms. Palin have the wherewithal to run a company like Hewlett Packard … “”.
It is obvious that Progmeister is a paid stealth blogger for George Soros. He only knows about – or wants us to know about — the first part of the above quote, not the second part, said less than a second later. — that neither Obama nor Biden could run a company either.
I guess you don’t get the significance of her dissing her own ticket? we already knew what she’d say about ours … you’re a little slow, Stan
Why do we need to seek and have approval from some people in other countries who are obviously jealous of our success.
the American investor put more money into foreign stocks than US company stocks in the past year; chew on that one for a bit
Sep 17, 2008 - 1:32 pm 194. ProgMeister:@m00tpoint:
A thought occurs to me … what if the tax code were amended? What if mortgage interest for any property with less than 20% owner equity at time of purchase isn’t tax deductible? And the tax receipts went directly to pay down the bailout costs from the current train wreck, so that the congresscritters can’t spend it on bridges?
gee, this one is tough to figure out: your home would be harder to sell and its value would go down; can you figure out where it goes from there
you’re proposing both a tax increase AND a socialization of risk; your party doesn’t believe in such things, although they do them all the time
you can change your mind, of course; McCain does it all the time … one thing in the AM and another in the PM .. pretty cool
Sep 17, 2008 - 1:38 pm 195. ProgMeister:@all
hey, you guys are big fans of markets:
the S&P 500 is down 11.08% since the day Johnny picked Sarah for VP
tell ‘ya something? it should …
Sep 17, 2008 - 1:51 pm 196. Chuck Pelto:TO: All
RE: Is ProgMeister Ignorant?
Or what?
Regards,
Chuck(le)
Sep 17, 2008 - 2:04 pm 197. What If Obama Loses… | Demure Thoughts:[Put your money in trust. Not your trust in money.]
[...] Good article here from Richard Miniter… [...]
Sep 17, 2008 - 2:22 pm 198. anthony:GET THE HEAD DOCTOR READY FOR THE LIBERALS, YOU HAVE LESS THAN 50 DAYS.YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED.YOU CAN RUSH HE WILL HELP YOU.
Sep 17, 2008 - 2:50 pm 199. James:What if Obama Loses?
Good riddance to the fool when he does lose.
Sep 17, 2008 - 3:05 pm 200. Robert:So, the way I understand it, Jimmy Carter implements a plan further corrupting a Roosevelt New Deal socialist federal mortgage insurance program to help the poor disadvantaged uncreditworthy inner city minorities in blighted neighborhoods get taxpayer insured mortgages to purchase the American Dream on easy credit.
And Bill Clinton later puts that program on steroids where the disadvantaged uncreditworthy minorities don’t even need to come up with a down payment or provide adequate evidence of being able to make the payments.
Then big time greedy Democrat Clintonites get themselves established in top management positions within the socialist created quasi-government magic money machines, further corrupting and expanding said risky socialist mortgage backing scheme, and now accounting fraud & corruption runs rampant while the Democrat congressional overseers look the other way.
And when President Bush and Republican Senators, including Senator McCain, raise the alarm and propose plans to reform said corrupt socialist agencies, the Democrats shoot them down.
Eventually, the disadvantaged uncreditworthy no money down buy the American Dream on easy credit debtors default on the loans they couldn’t afford in large numbers causing the housing market to crash, the easy mortgage companies to fail, the banks holding worthless notes to fail, the greedy brokers to fail and the giant insurance companies backing the whole mess crumble.
And now after the inevitable collapse occurs, the Democrats scurry like the rats they are while blaming everyone but themselves. And Senator Reid today says they will do nothing because no one knows what to do. And Senator Barak Hussein Obama chimes in with we can’t fix the problem while steering the same direction. NSS!
How about investigating and prosecuting the corrupt managers, senators and congressmen involved? Could it be because they’re Democrats?
Well, where the hell were they when Bush and McCain wanted to shine a light on the growing problem and reform the agencies while there was still a chance? Where was the great community organizer? Hmmmmmmmm?
Sep 17, 2008 - 3:36 pm 201. m00tpoint:@progmeister: “You’re proposing both a tax increase AND a socialization of risk.” It’s a VOLUNTARY tax increase, because no one is required to take a mortgage for >80% of the value of the property they want to buy. In the real world, few people will end up paying the tax. They’ll just buy houses more suitable for their resources, and will find it more expensive to gamble on the housing market rising forever.
And it’s exactly the OPPOSITE of socializing risk. The idea is, yes, anyone is free to obtain any high-risk, high-leverage mortgage they can get their hands on. However, the taxpayers are not obligated to subsidize the interest payments with a tax break. It adds cost to the risk-taker, not to taxpayers.
Will my home drop in value? Marginally, yes, because the pool of likely potential buyers will shrink. However, those are precisely the highly leveraged buyers who are currently defaulting on mortgages.
The bottom line is, bad underwriting and low interest rates have caused an artificial rise in property values. If you don’t want the bad underwriting to continue, you have to have a drop in property values. The only question is how you go about reducing the risk-taking that caused the current problem. Eliminating the tax break on highly leveraged mortgages is a low-bureaucracy way to curb the behavior.
If we need a way to help buyers get started, like military families, FHA-style programs could be considered.
m00t
Sep 17, 2008 - 3:46 pm 202. Trouble:hey, you guys are big fans of markets:
the S&P 500 is down 11.08% since the day Johnny picked Sarah for VP
tell ‘ya something? it should …
Yes. It tells us that you can’t time the market.
In other news: water is wet, sky is blue.
Sep 17, 2008 - 4:42 pm 203. Carl:Barack Obama’s Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac Connection
Fox News ^ | Sep 16, 2008 | John Gibson
Posted on Wednesday, September 17, 2008 18:02:40 by fightinJAG
Freddie and Fannie used huge lobbying budgets and political contributions to keep regulators off their backs.
A group called the Center for Responsive Politics keeps track of which politicians get Fannie and Freddie political contributions. The top three U.S. senators getting big Fannie and Freddie political bucks were Democrats and No. 2 is Sen. Barack Obama.
Now remember, he’s only been in the Senate four years, but he still managed to grab the No. 2 spot ahead of John Kerry — decades in the Senate — and Chris Dodd, who is chairman of the Senate Banking Committee.
Fannie and Freddie have been creations of the congressional Democrats and the Clinton White House, designed to make mortgages available to more people and, as it turns out, some people who couldn’t afford them.
Fannie and Freddie have also been places for big Washington Democrats to go to work in the semi-private sector and pocket millions. The Clinton administration’s White House Budget Director Franklin Raines ran Fannie and collected $50 million. Jamie Gorelick — Clinton Justice Department official — worked for Fannie and took home $26 million. Big Democrat Jim Johnson, recently on Obama’s VP search committee, has hauled in millions from his Fannie Mae CEO job.
Sep 17, 2008 - 5:19 pm 204. ProgMeister:@m00tpoint:
And it’s exactly the OPPOSITE of socializing risk. The idea is, yes, anyone is free to obtain any high-risk, high-leverage mortgage they can get their hands on. However, the taxpayers are not obligated to subsidize the interest payments with a tax break. It adds cost to the risk-taker, not to taxpayers.
like it or not, what you’re doing here is eliminating the mortgage interest deduction … which you guys tried to pin on Obama in a big way, and which he does not propose at all … like your candidate, you have no appreciation for how fragile this economy is and what your proposal would do to it. Let’s get on with the straight talk, my friend: eliminating a deduction is increasing the tax burden. There’s no getting around it.
Will my home drop in value? Marginally, yes, because the pool of likely potential buyers will shrink. However, those are precisely the highly leveraged buyers who are currently defaulting on mortgages.
marginally, shmarginally … the value of your home will fall
The bottom line is, bad underwriting and low interest rates have caused an artificial rise in property values. If you don’t want the bad underwriting to continue, you have to have a drop in property values. The only question is how you go about reducing the risk-taking that caused the current problem. Eliminating the tax break on highly leveraged mortgages is a low-bureaucracy way to curb the behavior.
the NO BUREAUCRACY way to curb bad underwriting is a functional market; investors won’t buy shitty paper in an open, transparent market; and when investors stop buying it, originators will stop writing it … finally, proponents of laissez-faire economics don’t worry about controlling property values; a given unit of property is worth exactly what an uncoerced purchaser in an arms-length transaction is willing to pay for it
Sep 17, 2008 - 7:46 pm 205. ProgMeister:@Robert:
So, the way I understand it, Jimmy Carter implements a plan ….
The problem (well, one of them) with your windy revisionist history is that it conveniently leaves out Ronald Reagan, GHW Bush, and the massive S&L debacle they allowed to happen on their watches. Reagan was warned, and warned early, but he was too busy getting his rest to bother with it.
Sep 17, 2008 - 7:53 pm 206. Sue:There is always a “ProgMeister”. Apparently a rich and/or retired Ublerlefty with $$$ because he has spent most of two days reading comments and responding. Must be nice!!
Sep 17, 2008 - 8:22 pm 207. Sari Buida:I am a big fan of Mr. Obama. He is very smart, and fully charisma. He made the USA politics history. But in my opinion the republican will win the election. Well, we will see!
Sep 17, 2008 - 8:27 pm 208. Nancy Reyes:IF it’s close, expect race riots and court cases: the year 2000 squared…
Sep 18, 2008 - 12:17 am 209. jm:I am sorry, but Obama is by no means perfect, and it is his election to lose. He has flip flopped on many key issues, and I am afraid a lot of people think that HE stole the nomination from H Clinton, who got more popular vote, but was not allowed to have all her delegates by the DNC.
Just think PUMA-a lot of people support her, and were energized by the contest; once he supposedly got the nomination, his fundraising and support fell off. He had a 14 point lead in July vs McCain and has ended up as much as 4 points down, depending on which polls you pay attention to.
Finally, however liberal we all want to be, the 300 pound gorilla is that he is African American and suspected of being a Muslim, based on photo evidence, and even the evidence of his own family.
So he is NOT perfect, and may I remind everyone that Gov Bill Richardson said he was supporting Obama against his old friend H Clinton because “Obama could NEVER win.”
Sep 18, 2008 - 4:47 am 210. Javelin:you guys really want a civil war, so you can walk around like those rednecks in “Dawn of the Dead” and party while you gun the zombies(liberals, blacks, etc) down. What simple minded blood lust, can’t you people think beyond war and killing?
Sep 18, 2008 - 9:17 am 211. Chuck Pelto:TO: All
RE: Javelin’s Projecting, Again
In truth, the so-called ‘progressives’ have killed more people in the United States than all our wars of the last century. And probably ALL OUR WARS combined.
And when they lose THIS election we’ll see them behave in an even more dangers manner. Wait. Don’t wait FOR the election. Dollars to donuts that the run-up TO this election is going to see more violence directed at Republicans than the last two general elections combined; tires slashed, shots fired at Republican HQs, etc.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
Sep 18, 2008 - 9:26 am 212. Chuck Pelto:[Hatred is the coward's revenge for being intimidated. -- George Bernard Shaw]
TO: ProgMeister
RE: Reagan & the S&L Fiasco
First off, that incident was small peanuts compared to this one.
Secondly, we’ve got all those Dems involved with THIS one; Gorelick, Raines, Johnson, Dodds, Obama. All of whom were lining their bank accounts with money from Fannie Mae and/or Freddie Mac.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
Sep 18, 2008 - 9:54 am 213. A Clay:[The truth will out......]
What if Obama wins and does a terrible job? Will that finally put a stake into the heart of statism? What will it do to race relations? The left assumes that an Obama presidency will be a stellar success. If it isn’t, will it the left’s “mission accomplished”?
Sep 18, 2008 - 10:06 am 214. KDawg:For Javelin
All of us Flesh eating Theo-Cons would like you to remember that we also like to feast on the flesh of Religion hating commy bloggers such as your-self.
Sep 18, 2008 - 11:40 am 215. Ed Wallis:“A Clay”,
an answer to your question posed as a rhetorical question:
“Did Lyndon Baines Johnson’s ‘Great Society’ programs win the ‘War on Poverty’? Did all those programs, agencies, all that money…HINDER the Dems from proposing YET FURTHER expensive and invasive stupidities?!”
(tip: N O o o o o o o o o o o o o o . . .)
Sep 18, 2008 - 12:40 pm 216. Jeff:What people don’t understand is why some of us are so against the current Republican ticket, but we have an obligation to fight against history ever being repeated again. Many of us out here are not fighting for the Democratic campaign but are fighting against an ideology.
1) An ideology that completely mirrors the ideology of this past 8 years.
2) An ideology that recognizes the few while completely disregarding the masses.
3) An ideology that believes in taking military action against Iraq, an incident that is completely unrelated to 9/11, without solidifying our claims beforehand. In the present, we have found no evidence of weapons of mass destructions or a tie to Osama Bin Laden. The devastation of this war has cost us over 4,000 of our brave troops and counting, over 1/2 trillion dollars of taxpayer’s money and counting, and over 1 million Iraqi lives unrelated to the terrorists or insurgency.
Cost of the Iraq War — http://www.nationalpriorities.org/costofwar_home
4) An ideology that still believes that the Iraq War is the right war on terrorism when the Afghanistan War should had been the right war on terrorism, where Osama Bin Laden actually was until he slipped into the mountains and into Pakistan’s territory now. The Iraq War also diverted our attention away from the Afghanistan War. We now have extended our resources in two separate places and have heightened our risk to our troops, our expenses, and creating another dilemma that will take quite some time to finalize. The Iraq War will not go away overnight and it is now our obligation to see it all the way through for God knows how many more years. This has also been the most unpopular war in the eyes of the world’s communities.
5) An ideology that believes that we are at our safest state since 9/11, when a recent terrorist plot was still trying to enter Great Britain’s airports with liquid explosives heading directly to us, but thankfully the plot was foiled. While in Afghanistan, the terrorists are regrouping and strengthening and we have recently suffered another high casualty to our troops yet again within this past month. We currently have the least amount of alliances in the world’s communities due to this unpopular Iraq War. True national securities are the ties that bind us to our world’s communities and the ties that bind them to us.
6) An ideology that vetted one of the most inexperience VP ticket in history, from foreign policies to national defense. If God forbids that anything happens to this President if elected and is stricken with illness, this VP will be running the country.
7) An ideology that believes in “the fundamentals of our economy are strong” while we are facing the highest mortgage foreclosure crisis, high unemployment rate, and the largest collapse of our financial infrastructures since The Great Depression of 1929.
This is an ideology that a lot of us in America are against. Whether this ideology is in the Republican or Democratic ticket is not the main issue but the fact is that America does not want to fall into another 4 more years of devastation. We cannot afford this anymore.
Sep 18, 2008 - 12:57 pm 217. Thanks to Sarah Palin… » Blog Archive » The Hidden Sinisterisms of the O Campaign:[...] on the contrary, seeking external release with the wrath of Action Wire unleashed upon the nation. Richard Miniter on PJMs ventures a possible future [...]
Sep 18, 2008 - 1:56 pm 218. nick:DEEPLY racist is the answer.
How do I know? I grew up in the south and it has changed but not by much.
I gie 5% points based on that fact alone to Mccain.
Sep 18, 2008 - 3:23 pm 219. RE:Ed Wallis,
Nice try, and although what you say is true, you are forgetting that refusal to acknowledge accountably is a central tennet of the Liberal religion. You don’t have to go back that far for examples – Look at public schools today. Effective reform is the last thing they actually want to do.
Creating and/or not solving problems is the premise by which they seek to expand government and raise taxes even more. The Left has demonstrated no interest in actually solving anything – it’s about control, power, and money.
More directly relevant to the election at hand, think Annenberg and that complete waste of taxpayer money that was and Obama was squarely in the middle of it.
Sep 18, 2008 - 3:29 pm 220. Pat:Mr. Miniter writes: “Indeed many find the hippie vision frightening: A country… too resentful of the rich to allow the economy to make more of them.”
This is an brilliant formulation of *the* fundamental problem: the politics of individual rights as designed by our founding Enlightenment thinkers and leading naturally to unprecedented wealth creation — undercut by the lingering, barbaric ethics of altruism where “you are your brother’s keeper so we must redistribute the fruits of your labor” – and, in the process, destroy you and all of the other producers…
Time is running out. We must rescue rational self-interest and the profit motive as *moral* and capitalism as the *only moral* social system. Only then can we preserve a government whose sole function is to protect individual rights.
Several decades ago a black preacher, the Reverend Ike, proposed the converse of Mr. Miniter’s point: (paraphrasing) “The only way to help the poor is to not be one of them!”
Here’s to rational selfishness, and a purely capitalist society that facilitates the creation of more and more rich people every day!!!
Sep 18, 2008 - 7:01 pm 221. Tcobb:What if Obama wins and does a terrible job? Will that finally put a stake into the heart of statism? What will it do to race relations? The left assumes that an Obama presidency will be a stellar success. If it isn’t, will it the left’s “mission accomplished”?
No–it won’t put a stake into the heart of statism. When their policies fail, it must be because people with evil intent have sabotaged it. Its never their fault–never.
Sep 18, 2008 - 7:29 pm 222. ProgMeister:@Chuck Pelto:
The problem (well, one of them) with your windy revisionist history is that it conveniently leaves out Ronald Reagan, GHW Bush, and the massive S&L debacle they allowed to happen on their watches. Reagan was warned, and warned early, but he was too busy getting his rest to bother with it. — ProgMeister
First off, that incident was small peanuts compared to this one.
oh really? 747 failed banks and a total cost of $300 billion bill is “small peanuts?”
Sep 18, 2008 - 7:41 pm 223. Joseph Marshall:Oh, good grief! More “civil war” fantasies! The notion that Liberals were “astonished” by the GWB victory over John Kerry is simply a piece of self-serving fiction. I was on the ground actually working with the campaign at the time and I can tell you that nobody had any view of things other than it would be a close popular vote race and that the EC victory would hinge on a small number of voters in key states.
In Ohio we thought and hoped we might have just enough muscle and hustle to win the turn-out contest and give Kerry the victory. We didn’t. But we missed by a mere 60,000 votes and that’s not very much.
What surprised us afterwards was not the Bush victory, but the way the Republican turnout was orchestrated in Ohio, through church networks, and with far better organized tracking of Republican voters from past elections than we were able to do with Democrats.
We were certainly dismayed, and we had every right to be. Circumstances had handed GWB and his party every possible lever of political power in America. And, despite the inanity of his crowing about his “political capital”, he could have completely reshaped this country with it–if he had had any brains and any elementary sense of how to govern–as opposed to merely ordering people to do things.
He and they accomplished absolutely nothing with it. I find it a major hoot to watch the waving around of Conservative “principles” on PJM. If the last eight years have shown nothing else, they have shown that Conservative Principles are simply irrelevant to government by Republicans.
Disagree with me? Then I challenge you to point to a single significant accomplishment of applying Conservative Principles to American life by the one-party government of 2002-2006.
Republican government in practice means starting wars you can’t finish, eliminating all your own “strong national defense” options in the process, strangling the Federal Government and the military with tax cutting, and then blithely making up the difference by borrowing enormous sums of money that you never intend to repay.
Some principles, huh?
GWB made two major mistakes. First, he decided to take on “Social Security Reform” as his first target. This was an elementary tactical blunder stemming from the hubris of looking at his EV total rather than his popular vote total.
His real “majority” was paper thin and a politician with brains would not have pushed his luck on an issue of this kind. Certainly no one who voted against GWB in 2004 was likely to agree with his “reforms”, and there was absolutely no reason to believe that everybody who voted for him would agree with them either. So he essentially handed his majority back to the Democrats, who promptly used it to stir up such a fuss that GWB was ignominiously defeated straight out of the box.
Politics is like tennis. Your first serve with a fresh arm is your best chance. All it would have taken was the good sense to do the tax cuts first. There was no way the Democrats could have stopped him on this issue.
Success breeds success, and carefully chosen issues designed to take on the Democrats where they were weakest, demoralizing them, and then trying for the hard stuff, would have given him victory on Social Security, and everything else he asked for, too.
Thank heavens he still remained the idiot-in-chief, even with all that power!
Second, he decided to heed his “values voter” base, and interfere in the Terry Schiavo affair. Conservatives in general have both a rational and an emotional advantage when framing abortion as a right-to-life issue. But the moment “right-to-life” becomes “keep-me-on-life-support-whether-I-want-it-or-not” the entire advantage is obliterated–and abortion has never recovered as a serious political issue since.
An overwhelming majority was appalled by GWB’s interference and saw very clearly that he was truly President of only a small faction of the electorate. This simply left him without any moral authority to strengthen his political reach among the rest of us.
Obama may win, or Obama may lose. Liberals are in no doubt that the outcome will be close, just like the last two elections. But even if John McCain wins, the power of the Republican one party government will remain broken.
And that is by far the most important thing for Liberals.
But there is another possibility. The election is still in flux, and if things really break Obama’s way, we could have a 60 seat, fillibuster proof, Democratic Senate, as well as a Democratic President who has nothing wrong with his brains to prevent him from taking maximum advantage of such a contingency.
Makes you stop and think, doesn’t it?
Sep 18, 2008 - 8:53 pm 224. Andrew Ian Dodge:What amazes me is that the US left is all about emotion. They don’t campaign they emote. And when there their person is rejected its not because they ran a crap campaign or picked the wrong person its because most Americans are “idiots” or “unsophisticated”.
Making a case for your guy should not involve emotional blackmail. Some campaigners think emotional blackmail is an integral part of a campaign. Lets hope it fails again and maybe they will learn. Case in point…
you guys really want a civil war, so you can walk around like those rednecks in “Dawn of the Dead” and party while you gun the zombies(liberals, blacks, etc) down. What simple minded blood lust, can’t you people think beyond war and killing?
Does anyone actually believe Republicans want civil war? When the left claims that an Obama loss will result in riots you know they are onto a loser.
Sep 19, 2008 - 4:10 am 225. Chuck Pelto:TO: ProgMeister
RE: Supporting Evidence….
….please.
Furthermore, from where I observed it, my early 40s in Denver, it was hardly noticeable.
And, as I said, compared to THIS thing….it’s SMALL PEANUTS.
Having trouble with English and logic again? Or just lying?
Regards,
Chuck(le)
Sep 19, 2008 - 4:30 am 226. Keith:[Figures don't lie, but liars figure.]
I find it amazing that America’s racism, which has always laid in the open, is so prevalent that the issues of the day,unemployment, consumer and national debt, the trade deficit,health care, education, infrastructure rebuilding,regulation of an unregulated marketplace and the need to bridge our social and political differences are supplanted by nonsense wedge issues that should remain in the public arena for discussion because that’s part of the promise of America, unless conservatives want ‘absolute power ..absolutely’ and we know that in the end it has and will corrupt absolutely (LOOK AT THE INFRINGES OF POWER AND CONSTITUTIONAL LAW that have been a hallmark of the current Bush administration.)
Sep 19, 2008 - 7:20 am 227. ProgMeister:@Chuck Pelto
oh really? 747 failed banks and a total cost of $300 billion bill is “small peanuts?” — ProgMeister
….please.
Furthermore, from where I observed it, my early 40s in Denver, it was hardly noticeable.
so you didn’t notice Neil Bush’s (yes, W’s brother) one billion dollar Silverado S&L failure in Denver? What DO you notice, Chuck? Just how heavily do you drink?
Sep 19, 2008 - 9:29 am 228. Chuck Pelto:TO: ProgMeister
RE: Silverado
Drove past the place on a daily basis going here and there in town.
And you’re still not providing the evidence to support your claim.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
Sep 19, 2008 - 9:32 am 229. ProgMeister:[I have taken more out of alcohol than alcohol has taken out of me. -- Winston Churchill]
@Chuck Pelto:
Drove past the place on a daily basis going here and there in town.
And you’re still not providing the evidence to support your claim.
fuck you, Chuck … see ya on November 5; I’ll get you a seat on our first ride on Air Force One … bring some towels to wipe 8 years worth of slime off the seats
Sep 19, 2008 - 10:01 am 230. deguello:tttt
Sep 19, 2008 - 10:08 am 231. deguello:Progmeister,thanks for vindicating those folks who think that progressive is a pc code word for demented stalinist thug!Incidentally the bank debacle was created by democrat sleazebags, but don’t let mere facts refresh the sewer you seem to have for brains.See ya at the inauguration(McCain’s)!
Sep 19, 2008 - 10:14 am 232. Chuck Pelto:TO: All
RE: The Truth Will Out
He can’t back up his claims. He can’t change the subject. He can’t denigrate me [as I've been abused by the best].
And, after a while, he can’t even ‘articulate’ his rage. Except to drop down to the f-word.
Or, as Auntie says in Mad Max: Beyond Thunderdome.
All the indicators of ‘victory’.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
P.S. ProgMeister, are you going to ‘visit’ me on The Day After? Win or Lose? I’ll make you a ‘cake’.
P.P.S. Wear body armor and make sure your insurance is paid-up.
Sep 19, 2008 - 11:30 am 233. Chuck Pelto:P.P.P.S. And, thinking upon his earlier query of my drinking habits….followed by his demonstration of nigh inarticulate rage….
….I suspect he’s been at SOMETHING between then and his later post to me. What I’m not sure. But I think I’ll have a cognac in honor of the occasion.
Sep 19, 2008 - 11:32 am 234. Chuck Pelto:TO: Keith
RE: Racism In America
The only racism I’ve seen touted in THIS election cycle has been of the sort presented BY Obama and company AND by outfits like the WaPo who alludes that anyone linking former CEO of Fannie Mae, Raines is an advisor to Obama is a ‘racist’ because Raines is black.
Doesn’t matter that he’s part of the group that brought about this economic fiasco. It’s just that because he’s black—and I didn’t know that until the WaPo mentioned it—you’re a racist if you mention his name in association with Obama.
Go fig…..
It’s called ‘projection’.
As a famous Army First Sergeant put it, when being ‘grilled’ by the Annual General Inspection’s Equal Employment Opportunity inquisitor….
Regards,
Chuck(le)
Sep 19, 2008 - 12:56 pm 235. Jeff:[The one who hurls the first racism allegation is probably the REAL racist. -- CBPelto]
What most people have not notice or fail to notice is that “Change” is coming in this election. But the “Change” is not only being promoted by Obama’s campaign since the beginning, the “Change” is now also in McCain himself, who has seemed to have made a 180 degrees turn in his own transformation. Here are the “Changes” of McCain —
1) McCain was previously against oil drilling in ANWR, Alaska; off the coast of Florida; off the coast of the Gulf of Mexico; and off the coast of California. Now he is for “drill baby drill”.
2) McCain was against Federal regulations of America’s largest financial institutions like Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, and AIG. Now, after these financial institutions are collapsing, he is promoting Federal regulations to control them so that this crisis will not happen again. He now wants more Federal regulations of Wall Street altogether. Wouldn’t this be considered as socialism that most conservatives do not want? Also, please do not forget McCain’s past involvement in the Keating Five as an example that his future plans for Federal regulations of financial institutions will not work —
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keating_Five
3) McCain has said over and over that, “the fundamentals of our economy are strong” in reference to our economy. Now, he states that he was referring to the American workers as being the backbone of our economy? This reference is only made after Obama has contested his refusal to accept that our country is in a financial crisis. Maybe this is McCain’s way of defusing his stance of denial.
4) McCain has stated since the beginning of the Republican campaign that he will fight a good and honest campaign without resorting to dirty politics of using smear tactics. Now, most of the McCain’s campaign ads against Obama are smear campaigns that even The New York Times, The Washington Post, The LA Times, Newsweek, and various other major news agencies have declared as false information using very dirty politics. Most of the Obama’s campaign ads have been on the defense to all of these false accusations by the McCain’s campaign ads.
5) For more changes of McCain, please look at the link below —
http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/flipflops
In this election, there are in fact two forms of changes. One form of “Change” is being promoted by a candidate who wants to transform this country for the better, while the other form of “Change” is being promoted by another candidate of his own transformation to capture the hearts of the American public. Which form of “Change” do we want as a country?
Sep 19, 2008 - 7:28 pm 236. Jim C.:ProgMeister wrote,”Obama, on the other hand, has been well-received around the world.”
Except for that teeny-weeny misunderstanding about an undivided Jerusalem.
John the Libertarian wrote, “the Republicans keep pushing for voter ID, but the Democrats say it is racist and unduly punishes the poor.”
And the deceased.
Sep 19, 2008 - 11:30 pm 237. 888:Morton from vienna: “If Obama loses…It will be another stolen election. This time it will be stolen because the republicans can’t steal money with Obama’s worldview and especially because HE IS BLACK. His blackness scares the republican who are bigots and southerners who are racist.”
You and your kind still don’t get it. Republicans are proud of Condi Rice being the first black female Secretary of State. They are also proud of Colin Powell being the 1st black Secretary of State. Look at Bush’s past and present cabinet — minorities and women everywhere — totally colorblind. And that’s after people like you (the liberal, elitist establishment) called Bush a racist and the most vile and vicious adjectives known to mankind. There are black conservatives and Republicans, in case you’re too stupid to know this. So it isn’t a black or race issue, although you and Obama keep injecting race into the mix. We talk about issues and question Obama’s association with racists, terrorists and a convicted contributor, Obama’s judgment and Obama’s constant flip-flops and grand rhetoric. You guys, on the other hand, bring up race as the reason people (Republicans) won’t vote for him. There are too many other reasons not to vote for Obama; race is a loser excuse.
Sep 20, 2008 - 3:33 am 238. Chuck Pelto:TO: All
RE: Hmmm
ProgMeister has been rather ‘quiet’.
I suspect that either he is ashamed of his earlier comment or PJM has banned him from their venue.
In either circumstance, it is regrettable. He is the epitome of the ‘Progressive’ spirit. And, although he’s a liar and vicious and such, he is an upstanding example of all that we can expect of his ilk, should they actually gain power.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[Good can abide with Evil. But Evil cannot abide the existence of Good, as Good will continually point out Evil's problems. Therefore, Evil will always try to do away with Good because of such embarrassments.]
P.S. If PJM has banned ProgMeister, I request they reconsider their decision. He makes an excellent ‘foil’ for discussions. People learn so much from such….
Sep 20, 2008 - 11:11 am 239. taekwondodad:The Manifesto by Marx is the liberal view. I understand that killing millions, and screwing the whole world over is what the liberal view accomplishes. As for a conversative view: Keep those things that work, quit trying to change things every five seconds, quit trying to steel my paycheck, leave me alone, quit getting in my face, and if you don’t listen to my view and leave me alone then – its War!
Sep 20, 2008 - 12:13 pm 240. Chuck Pelto:TO: taekwondodad
RE: War…One Way or the Other
What’s your point here?
Just pointing out that there is continual ‘war’ between the two theories? As if we didn’t recognize that all this time?
So what…..?
Regards,
Chuck(le)
Sep 20, 2008 - 1:31 pm 241. Chuck Pelto:[The 'slow learners' are always with you.....]
P.S. I take you taekwondo and I beat the heck out of it with me fists….once I get inside you kick radius…..
Sep 20, 2008 - 1:33 pm 242. Wynne:Yes, Wick Allison was a conservative when he was youngin Dallas. He had become liberal before he moved to New York, where his publishing holding company published “National Review”. He still is!
As I recall Hillary Rodham was a Goldwater Girl.
Same song, second verse!
Sep 20, 2008 - 6:04 pm 243. Richard Miniter:Chuck(le)
Progmeister is not banned, at least by me.
It is possible that PJM banned, but they say no.
In general, I do not ban people and in practice never have banned any one. I like to take the slings and arrows that my opinions unleash. Smells like free speech to me.
Sep 20, 2008 - 7:22 pm 244. Shocked!:If “Obama loses” the progressives will have to search for another false Messiah. Since they reject the one & only true Messiah, available falsies are abundant.
Sep 21, 2008 - 7:52 am 245. Chuck Pelto:TO: Richard Miniter
RE: ProgMeister’s Absence
He must be sulking or recharging his batteries.
Thanks for the information.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
P.S. Keep up the good work….
….we’re all excited.
Sep 21, 2008 - 8:58 am 246. By The Fault » Blog Archive » Enough:[...] is some kind of perfect candidate. In a piece that makes a point or two I agree with Richard Miniter says: Too many think that elections turn on identities, not [...]
Sep 21, 2008 - 9:27 am 247. Enough : NO QUARTER:[...] Obama is some kind of perfect candidate. In a piece that makes a point or two I agree with Richard Miniter says: Too many think that elections turn on identities, not [...]
Sep 21, 2008 - 2:35 pm 248. Jennefier:Subject:Obama explains National Anthem
Hot on the heels of his explanation for why he no longer wears a flag pin, presidential candidate Senator Barack Obama was forced to explain why he doesn’t follow protocol when the National Anthem is played.
According to the United States Code, Title 36, Chapter 10, Sec. 171, During rendition of the national anthem when the flag is displayed, all present except those in uniform are expected to stand at attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart.
‘As I’ve said about the flag pin, I don’t want to be perceived as taking sides,’ Obama said. ‘There are a lot of people in the world to whom the American flag is a symbol of oppression. And the anthem itself conveys a war-like message. You know, the bombs bursting in air and all. It should be swapped for something less parochial and less bellicose. I like the song ‘I’d Like to Teach the World to Sing.’ If that were our anthem, then I might salute it.’
WHAAAAAAAT!!!!!!!!!! Yes, ladies and gentlemen, this could possibly be our next president. I, for once, am speechless.
He better take sides……….if he is not on the side of AMERICA why should he EVEN BE CONSIDERED for the office he is seeking. We do not need a man in office that will not salute the flag. The world knows how to sing, what they need to know is that the USA will defend what that flag stands for.
Sep 21, 2008 - 3:10 pm 249. Richard Miniter “What if Obama Loses?” “Many find the hippie vision frightening.” « Rosettasister’s Weblog:[...] http://pajamasmedia.com/richardminiter/2008/09/15/what-if-obama-loses/ [...]
Sep 23, 2008 - 11:27 am 250. carla:Many of you will recall that on July 8, 1947, nearly 60 years ago,
witnesses claim that an unidentified flying object (UFO) with five alien
aboard crashed onto a sheep and cattle ranch just outside Roswell , New
Mexico . This is a well-known incident that many say has long been
covered up by the U.S. Air Force and other federal agencies and
organizations.
However, what you may NOT know is that in the month of March 1948, nine
months after that historic day, the following people were born:
Albert A. Gore, Jr.
Hillary Rodham
John F. Kerry
William J. Clinton
Howard Dean
Nancy Pelosi
Dianne Feinstein
Charles E. Schumer
Barbara Boxer
See what happens when aliens breed with sheep? I certainly hope this bit
of information clears up a lot of things for you. It did for me.
–
Sep 25, 2008 - 6:50 am 251. carla:Guess who recommended
Obama to enter Harvard
Mystery man in senator’s memoir now
revealed as disciple of socialist agitator
In a revelation tying Barack Obama even closer to radical community organizing, WND has learned that a renowned disciple of the late socialist agitator Saul “The Red” Alinksy wrote a letter of recommendation for Obama when he applied to Harvard Law School.
Obama approached Northwestern University professor John L. McKnight – a loyal student of Alinsky’s radical tactics – to pen the Harvard letter in the late 1980s. McKnight serves on the boards of radically anti-American groups in Chicago, including one accused of thuggery.
Obama in his 2006 memoir alludes to McKnight – whom he describes as an “older man who had been active in the civil rights efforts in Chicago in the sixties” – but stops short of identifying him by name. He referred to him only as “my friend.”
But McKnight, who enforced affirmative action for Attorney General Robert Kennedy, was far more than that to young Obama. He helped train him in the agitation tactics of Alinsky, who wrote the organizing manual, “Rules for Radicals,” which he dedicated to mankind’s “very first radical, Lucifer.”
The Chicago-based Gamaliel Foundation lists McKnight as a board director. From1985 to 1988, Obama worked for a subsidiary of Gamaliel, where he cut his teeth as a community organizer on Chicago’s South Side. McKnight and Gamaliel, which was founded on Alinsky’s principles, provided training for the budding radical.
Before leaving for Harvard, Obama wrote an article published in a journal titled, “After Alinsky: Community Organizing in Illinois,” in which he praised McKnight and his organizing strategies. He also decried “institutional racism” and called for more “power” to put in place “a systematic approach to community organization.”
While at Harvard, he found time to take advanced training courses at the Industrial Areas Foundation, a group founded by Alinsky and affiliated with Gamaliel. He also would return to Chicago to work as a consultant and trainer for Gamaliel.
Under the tutelage of McKnight and other hardcore students of Alinsky, Obama says he got the “best education I ever had, better than anything I got at Harvard Law School.” He made the remark last year while campaigning in Iowa.
His mentor McKnight also sits on the board of a militant leftist group called the National People’s Action, the professor’s curriculum vita reveals. NPA employs the hardball street tactics of Alinskyite organizing.
NPA claims to be simply a coalition of neighborhood advocacy groups based in Chicago, but conservative analyst Michelle Malkin describes it as a “left-wing goon squad.” She says NPA has been known to bus hundreds of angry protestors to the homes of business and government leaders to demand “justice” for inner-city blacks.
While preparing to intimidate the families of officials and trample over their private property, she says NPA picketers belt out the following battle cry:
Who’s on your hit list, NPA?
Who’s on your hit list for today?
Take no prisoner, take no names.
Kick ‘em in the a– when they play their games.
“NPA’s militant tactics cross the bounds of decent political debate,” Malkin wrote in 2004.
Obama, in his 1995 memoir, said he wanted to go to Harvard Law School to “learn power’s currency in all its intricacy,” with the goal of “making large-scale change” as a national politician.
Before writing his recommendation, McKnight, a former ACLU director, advised Obama not to “compromise” his principles.
Sep 25, 2008 - 8:07 am 252. Jim:While Obama says he’s perhaps more tolerant of compromise than McKnight, he says his views haven’t really changed from his days organizing on behalf of radical Alinsky groups like Gamaliel and ACORN in Chicago.
“My views are not so much more refined than they were when I labored in obscurity as a community organizer,” he averred in his 2006 autobiography.
Socialist dream
Alinsky, the father of community organizing, dreamed of socialism one day replacing the “jungle” of American capitalism. He wrote that he hoped “for a future where the means of production will be owned by all of the people instead of just a comparative handful.”
Alinsky dedicated the first edition of his book, “Rules for Radicals,” to Satan: “Lest we forget at least an over-the-shoulder acknowledgment to the very first radical known to man who rebelled against the establishment and did it so effectively that he at least won his own kingdom – Lucifer.”
McKnight has advocated for another war on poverty, something Obama is proposing with his “Urban Prosperity” plan.
Democrat is a form of mental disorder.
Sep 25, 2008 - 11:55 am 253. Dan in Miami:If Sen. Obama loses the election, it will be because his politics, views, vision, and plans were not to the liking of a majority of Americans.
While everyone will cry “it is RACISM” they will be sadly, SADLY mistaken. The fact is, African-Americans are voting 90% for Obama, simply because of race. That simple fact far outweighs the tiny percentage of beer-guzzling, knuckle-dragging white bigots with white sheets hanging in their closet. There are plenty more racist blacks voting FOR Obama because or race than racist whites voting aginst him because of race.
So, let’s get back to his politics, his experience, (or lack thereof) that were the real factors.
This guy is a freshman Senator who has spent half his time in the Sentate running for the White House. Before becoming a Senator, he was a “community organizer.” Yeah, . . . Jesus was a “community organizer and Pilate was a Govenor.” Funny. Does that mean Obama is going to raise the dead? Walk on water? No? I didn’t think so.
Sorry guys, but, Obama’s problems stare at him every morning when he shaves his face. He is a FAR left, socialist leaning liberal with very little exerpience. THAT is why he won’t get elected.
And claims of “Swift Boating?” PLEASE!!! Obama’s crew sent and army of muck-rakers to Alaska looking for anything on Palin. That’s like the pot calling the kettle . . . . oh, better not say that, someone might call me a racist.
Yes, he can give a great speech (if there is a teleprompter handy). Yes, he talks “change” and says all the stuff people want to hear, . . . but when you ask HOW, ask for details, he has none. His plans are sweeping and generous, . . . so money better fall from the SKY, or he will be coming after everyone making over $40 k (that would NOT include me) to pony up with MORE tax dollars.
Race isn’t his problem. His problem is that Americans know that in this dangerous and uncertain world, we need someone with proven EXPERIENCE in the Oval Office. That is certainly NOT Obama.
Oct 1, 2008 - 4:59 am 254. Sherry:Glad to see all of you good Christian conservatists are up to your same old tactics. God knows the truth and the pureness of people’s heart. I will let him to tend to the racists, bigots, ignorants and evil of heart. Afterall, he promised us he would. If the end of the earth happens tomorrow I know I am ready. You should think about what your true intentions are and if you’re ready. And remember, convincing others doesn’t count, only convincing God counts and he knows what you are really thinking and what is really in your heart.
Oct 30, 2008 - 5:17 pm